What Happens When You Try What You're Bad At | Challenge Accepted

Olympic gold medalist Elana Meyers Taylor talks to Dr. Becky about why medals aren't really the point. The point is answering the question: am I good at getting good at things, or am I good at being a novice?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know that feeling when you do everything right? And the thing, whatever the thing is, still doesn't happen? And then you do everything right again because you're a person who tries hard and the second time it still doesn't happen? I think about this with my own kids constantly. They practice, they show up, they do the hard part and they're not the best. They don't win. And then, right after that, kid or adult, you kind of have to decide, do I keep going? And you decide if you say, I give up, or challenge accepted. My guest today has done that longer than almost anyone I can think of. Alana Meyers-Taylor was supposed to be a softball player. She was an All-American in college.

• 0:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  She set records in everything. And she dreamed of being an Olympic softball player from the age of nine. And then she had, in her own words, I promise not mine, the worst trial of her life, the worst trial anyone has ever had, and didn't make the team. But there was kind of something else waiting for her. Bobsled. A sport she had never touched. Since that moment, she has been to five Olympics for bobsled. And coming into this year, she'd won a medal every color except for the one she wanted. Gold. Then, this past February, at 41 years old, on the very last run of her very last shot

• 1:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  at it, she won gold. Tying her for the most Winter Olympic medals by any American woman, six, and also making her the most decorated Black American Winter Olympian in history. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is the second in our four-part series with Hot Wheels. I'm sitting down with risk takers, high achievers, and big dreamers who, faced with impossible odds, years of hard work, and big hurdles, all say, challenge accepted. Today, Olympic bobsledder and gold medalist, Alana Meyers-Taylor. Let's jump in.

• 2:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  All right, Alana, you've got an amazing story, but before any of it, I want to know what you were like as a little kid.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. As a kid, I was pretty shy. I didn't really know how to interact with people. So it's a social skill that I had to actually learn. My mom likes to tell this story about one time, this little kid came over to me and hit me over the head with a tape. And I didn't react to the kid at all. I just started crying. I didn't try to retaliate. And I think, like, in my mind, I was like, why would he do that? Like, why would this happen? And it couldn't make sense of it. So I had social issues, like, all growing up. It didn't really make sense to me, like, how to interact with people. But that's where sport really came into play. And sport, for me, started as just going outside and playing. And then eventually organized sport gave me the framework to be able to learn how to

• 3:01Speaker 01

  interact with people and have some social structure.

• 3:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm. You said shy.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I found that word interesting in childhood because I think it can mean a lot of different things. Shy, quiet, shy, didn't want to try new things, shy, kept to yourself, shy. What did it mean, or maybe none of those things that I meant?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  I guess shy, in my case, like, I was interested in trying new things.

• 3:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  But people terrified me.

• 3:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  It was not just adults either. Like, adults were actually easier to deal with because, you know, my parents had their friends and there was different people babysitting us from time to time. Like, that made sense to me. Dealing with other kids and figuring out how to relate to other kids did not make sense to me at any standpoint. And so that's why I used the descriptor shy for that relationship.

• 3:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, you shied away from kids?

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But you didn't shy away from activities?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Even then?

• 3:53Speaker 01

  No. Yeah, I loved being active. It was, I loved being active and also I loved, like, going to the library and doing artistic stuff, even though I'm not very artistic at all. But I loved the challenge of trying different things. Just people, for some reason, it was like, I don't know. You don't make sense to me. Like, I can't conceptualize this in my three- or five-year-old brain, what's going on here versus sport has rules. Art even has some kind of structure, you know? There's only so many colors you can use. I'm sure that's offensive to many artists out there, but there was more structure behind it, so it made a little bit more sense to me.

• 4:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And did your parents take an approach of, okay, she's drawn to these things, let's help, you know, that part of her blossom? Did it feel like they were hard on you? Like, why can't you just play with other kids? Like, come on, have these play dates. How did they approach that?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  With dealing with other kids, they definitely were like, hey, you need to get over it. You need to go out there and figure it out. And this is, this is how life is. You're gonna have to interact with other people. And also, I had an older sister and she was always the type of person who could go out and be very social and circle. So when we were out together, when we were playing with kids together, I would just let her do all the talking. And of course, my parents were in those settings, so they didn't see, so they didn't understand that's what was going on. When we're out together, playing with friends in the yard, or playing with friends in the neighborhood or stuff, I'm just letting her take the lead.

• 5:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  But when it comes to my own individual schooling, I'm like, I don't want to talk to these people. I don't know these people.

• 5:20Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  I don't know what I'm doing. So they were always of the impression as like, hey, you need to figure out how to make this happen. You need to figure out how to engage with kids your age.

• 5:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Do you remember, because we're not gonna get to bobsled yet, but do you remember the first thing you did? It was, like, kind of daring. I don't want to say it's reckless, but yeah, it was daring. It was brave. It was a little scary.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I was full of those types of activities, I think. And that's probably why, one of the reasons why my parents came up with the idea for bobsled is we used to go, we had skateboards. I don't know how we end up getting these skateboards, but I used to slide headfirst and feet-first down on these skateboards, down hills, on streets. And of course, when you're sliding down these streets, and in Georgia you have big hills, you can't see if cars are coming. You can't see if anything's ahead of you. And of course, this was the 80s, so we're not wearing helmets. So we're basically like streetlooshing before I knew streetloosh was a thing. And it just felt like the funniest thing to me. And that's probably why my parents are like, hey, bobsled might work for you, but...

• 6:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Like, I loved the risk-taking kind of aspect of that.

• 6:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  How old were you when you were doing that?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, probably six or seven. Yeah. No concept that anything bad could happen, or like, cars could come, or any, no, I was just like, I want to go fast, let's go.

• 6:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  The need for speed.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Early age.

• 6:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. When your parents found out about that at age six, seven, were they like, great, you go do that, we love the adventure you? They're like, hold on a second, we need to intervene. How did they handle this part of you that loved, you know, kind of interesting, somewhat risky things?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  The rule in our house was just be in before the lights turned on. So they did not care what I was doing, as long as I came back and the lights are turned on, and as long as I was being a good person. They really didn't care what my activities were. I do remember, though, one time I got in trouble for riding my bike outside the neighborhood. So I had kind of guidelines, like, I had to stay in the neighborhood. But outside of that, like, they were pretty hands-off.

• 7:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Riding bike outside neighborhood, bad. Headfirst on a skateboard, down hills, maybe into cars, fine, as long as you're home before the light.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  It was in the neighborhood.

• 7:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Got it, I get it.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  So I guess it worked.

• 7:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I get it. Did you're doing that as a kid? Like, obviously it further developed this part of you that seeked adventure. I'm just curious how it related to your self-trust, like, what your self-trust was like when you were growing up?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Physically, I trusted myself entirely and almost at the point, probably too much, which, you know, you'll see later in my career, later in my bobsled career, I was almost too daring with certain things. But as a child, like, physically, I felt invincible. And that did carry into my adulthood. And that's why I was able to go into the bobsled. I mean, we have people try out for bobsled all the time. And you could tell for the first run whether or not this is gonna be for somebody or not, just because of how they react. And a lot of times, they'll react a certain way because they're not willing to go out there and take the risk. They're not willing to put their body through certain things. And they're not, they can't get to that next level in order to overcome the fear of being in a bobsled.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  And so I feel like that kind of willingness to, like, face your fears was set at an early childhood, in a predominantly safe way. I mean, you would say going down on a skateboard isn't exactly safe, but in a safer way than some other avenues you might think about as a child.

• 8:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. When you say you learned to physically trust yourself, what, can you give me, I don't know, a memory of that or a moment where that, you know, kind of started to crystallize?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the biggest way it started to crystallize is when I started playing softball. So I grew up most of my life playing softball. And when I started, I was terrible, like, most kids are. You know, you just, you don't know how to catch, you don't know how to do those other things. But having the confidence gave me the ability to say, hey, you know what? I just need to put in a little bit more work. I'm gonna figure this out. It's not a matter of whether or not I can figure it out, it's that I haven't tried. This, I'm new to this. I just need to put in the work and put in the effort, and then I'll figure it out. Like, it was never a question. And I think athletically, that carried me throughout my entire career. It was never a question of, if I could figure it out, it was just a matter of when.

• 9:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But talking about softball, you went to GW. You set program, program records in nearly every offensive category. You were a pitcher and a shortstop, team MVP all four years. That's all correct?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yes, that's all correct.

• 9:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And yet you're saying softball started feeling like maybe I'm not as advanced as other people. So you started as kind of more of a beginner and then this is where you ended up?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, just walk me through that arc.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Well, part of it too is I started softball at the age of eight or nine, which even at the time in the eighties, everybody said that's too late. You're never going to make it. You're starting too late, which is just mind boggling to me. Even now, like my son got offered to be on a contact football team and he's three and you're like, why are we putting kids in this serious and organized sport this early? And even like I said, in the eighties and early nineties, there was always that pressure. Like if you didn't do it then, if you didn't start that early, you were never going to make it. But for me, growing up playing and having the opportunity to explore and figure out how my body worked in different ways. I mean, you're going to figure a lot of different things about your body, playing kickball or

• 10:44Speaker 01

  tetherball or dodgeball or wiffle ball, all these different types of things that kids play on the playground versus organized sports that gave me the advantage of going into softball. So when I got into softball, I wasn't as good as the other kids because they had been playing since they're five years old. And so it was just a matter of putting in the work. And fortunately, my parents helped in this regard. You know, they saw I had a passion in it and they were like, hey, okay, if you want to be good at this, then I'll help you put in the work. I'll show you what that looks like and then you take it from there.

• 11:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  And so I put in the work and that's eventually how we were able to make it happen. Like I determined at the age of nine that I was going to be an Olympian. Thought it would be in softball, didn't work out, but you know, to have that foresight to know that I just needed to work for it.

• 11:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Wait, you were nine. I mean, I have a nine year old, my other two are older. So that means they both were nine. And at nine,

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 11:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  you said, I'm going to be an Olympian. Where, when? Is this a fever dream? Was this like a conscious thought?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  No, this was a conscious thought. And I think growing up in a sports household and seeing it, and I think part of it too, is that confidence in my physical abilities that started at such an early age is like, I see these people on TV doing this. I know I could make this happen. And it was like a conviction, like it's even hard to describe how much conviction you can have as a nine year old. You're like, I don't know fractions yet, but I know in my heart of hearts that I'm going to be an Olympian.

• 12:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  And I just didn't know what sport it would be in. I thought it would be softball or summer sport because I grew up in Georgia. But lo and behold, there was a different path for me.

• 12:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay. I just want to pause for a second to explain why we're here talking about the challenger spirit today. It's because we teamed up with Hot Wheels to create this mini series, Challenge Accepted. I have this saying, we're preparing our kid for the road, not preparing the road for our kid. And what I mean by this is we want our kids to be resilient. We want them to trust themselves, not just to handle the smooth parts of the road, but to handle the road, whatever shape it ends up taking, which means we don't just want to give them a smooth, straight, easy road all the time. Right? That's really the heart of Challenge Accepted, of this mini series we're making right here with Hot Wheels.

• 13:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Because Hot Wheels believes it's so important for kids to be able to try, fail, try again, still struggle, learn from mistakes. You don't just hand kids a Hot Wheels track that's already assembled and tell them, have fun. You let them build it. You let them struggle to build it. You let them try to click the tracks in place and experiment with the angles of the loops and have that not work a bunch of times. Have the car fall off the track and that leads to more testing, different speeds, more play. That's what it's all about. What we're trying to understand in Challenge Accepted is what it actually takes in the early years to become resilient later on. How did our amazing, bold, successful guests

• 13:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  on these episodes learn to try and fail and struggle and try again? What parenting lessons can we learn from them? And how do we help our kids build the type of growth mindset they all have? We're going to get to the bottom of this in this mini series. And I want to thank Hot Wheels so much for making this possible.

• 14:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And then here you are, GW. Was there a point there that you were just thinking like, I'm going to do this rest of my life. Softball is going to be my thing. That's who I am.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  That's what I went into GW being. I went in the entire thing and thought I was going to play softball, go to the Olympics in softball, win a medal, and then become a softball coach. And that was going to be my entire life up to the point was at GW, you know, it's this great academic institution. Like I wanted to study coaching. And not to say there's not a lot of study under coaching and everything like that. But most of the time when you hear about GW, hear about people going to law school, med school, politicians, and I have a lot of athletes that I played with who went on to work for politicians and still to this day. And all I was focused on was being a softball coach.

• 15:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Well, fortunately, and I didn't see it at that time, I had Olympic tryout.

• 15:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  And I went to this Olympic tryout, was super excited, but I think I had put so much pressure on it that I completely choked. And it was objectively what I call the worst tryout in the history of tryouts. And it was like, people think I'm joking when I describe it that way. It's like, no, I threw the ball over backstop at one point. My first at bat was a strikeout, struck out swinging with the ball over my head. Like it was really, really bad. And so softball too, it's one of those things where there's so many athletes playing. If you have a disaster or a tryout like that, you're not getting invited back. So that dream was pretty much dashed. And so it was one of those things where I was like, but I still have this desire to be an Olympian. I just need to find the right sport.

• 15:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Did you get through that tryout? Like that was horrible. And the next day you're like, I'm fine. I don't care, moving on. Or did it sit with you longer? Like that? Yeah.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Like I just remember the tryout was in Oregon. I just remember sitting in the car after the tryout with my dad and just bawling my eyes out crying and just like, what happened? Like I'm such a much better player than this. I can't believe this happened. Like it's over. And then they took softball out of the Olympics as well. So I knew there was going to be no second chances at that point. So at that moment, it was like, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to anybody. Like now, in retrospect, you're like, that's a pretty big luxury. If that's the worst thing that ever happened to anybody. By the time, it was devastating. But fortunately, you know, being there with my father, who was a professional athlete, like he's like, you know, this is a moment, we're here, but it happened for a reason and you just need to keep training.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Something will happen. Keep training, keep working hard and something will happen. Like it's not over till it's over. And so with that encouragement, I just went back and yes, I was devastated. And yes, I didn't know what I was exactly going to do next because I had built my whole life up to be an Olympic softball player, an Olympic coach and a softball coach and all these types of things. And so when that didn't happen, I didn't know what to do, but I knew I could go to the gym and I could keep training.

• 17:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, it's interesting. So many things are going on in my head. You never felt so much pressure as that tryout. And I think about everything you've said, and there's a little shift when you started talking about softball where you were, you were this kid who you love sports. You clearly love intensity. Like you like to work hard. You seek intense sensation. You know, your body and but going into the tryout, your identity wasn't Amalana, who loves to work hard and loves to do things intensely. It was, I'm a softball player. I'm going to be in a, and so, and it's interesting, I think about my own moments where things don't go well. Like when I feel like my whole identity is riding on something really hard.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  To kind of be in the zone.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But then something shifted. Like, okay, maybe the thing that is underneath is the same. I like to work really hard. I'm going to go to the Olympics. But there's a little more fluidity than just, I have to be a softball player.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 18:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so what, what allowed that to then get channeled into something, I don't know if I'd say it's the opposite of softball, but it's pretty far in many ways from softball, bobsled.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, part of it was exactly that, was the recognition that this identity as me as softball player had to basically die. Like it was over. So I needed to refine myself and I needed to figure out who I was. And so when the opportunity came up to go into bobsled, like you can't put your identity in it because I don't know anything about it other than cool running. It's like, I don't, I don't know.

• 18:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So glad you said that because I was like, that was my, that was my only research that I did was cool running.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Me too, you know? And so you couldn't, you couldn't go into there and have your whole identity wrapped around it. But during that phase of transitioning from softball to bobsled, like that was, I was just training and didn't know what I was training for. But also I was doing other things. I was finally having the opportunity to go out and enjoy holidays with my family and enjoy time with my sisters. And also I went back to school and I was actually studying to be a phlebotomist and work in exercise training and then also go into med school. And that was my trajectory. Of course, all of that changed.

• 19:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  But I didn't actually have a identity in one of those things, but I was just at that point where it's like, this is my opportunity to find what else is out there.

• 19:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I'm just thinking about as a kid, your interests were pretty broad and diverse. And it kind of, all that energy gets put into softball and then that doesn't work. And then you kind of went broad and diverse. Again, And then now comes bobsled. Okay. Is there a moment, I've been dying to know, where someone said to you, Alana, like, how about bobsled? Were you like, that's a great idea? Or what? That's out of left field. Like, what was the moment that someone introduced that idea to you?

• 19:57Speaker 01

  It was my parents and they had watched bobsled. They had always watched it because, you know, Winter Olympics, we watched the Olympics and everything like that. And so they approached me and said, hey, this sport of bobsled, they look for strong, powerful athletes. You're a strong, powerful athlete. They constantly recruit. Why don't you give this a try? And so they planted the seed and I was like, what else am I doing? I might as well. I've got nothing to lose. And so from being at the point with softball, that I put so much pressure on myself where I had to perform. I had to, I had to make this work to be an Olympian. I kind of went into bobsled with eyes wide open. And I was like, well, let's see what can happen. Like, the worst that could hap- the worst thing that could happen has already happened. I didn't make an Olympic team. So if I go into bobsled,

• 20:42Speaker 01

  the worst thing that could happen is I not make another Olympic team. But at that point, it's same difference.

• 20:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I already have that notch on my belt.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have that experience. I know what that's like. Yeah. So I might as well go in and just see what can happen.

• 20:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. And you didn't, I guess you didn't have 15-ish years of what felt, in some ways, like pressure. It was almost like a free option. Nothing to lose.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so your parents presented to you. You don't initially say, that's crazy. You think, true, why not? And then what? Because I know you said you were new to softball at age eight, but here you are now. And my guess is, I don't know, you've never been to a bobsled training. So like, you've never seen it even the same way. Softball is a little built in.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:24Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  To our culture in a little bit. So how, yeah, how did that happen?

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Well, I think the bonus of cool runnings is it makes the sport look a lot easier than it is. It makes it look like, hey, I can get any four guys off the street and turn them into an Olympic bobsled team. And so I think most of us who try out for the sport have that impression going in, regardless of how much you've watched it, how much, even now, modern bobsled or whatever, regardless of how much you've watched it, you still think, oh, it's just sitting in the sled. How hard could this possibly be? And so going in with that attitude, you're like, well, let's see what happens. Like, I are training. And, and the good news is, like, I went in, I was trained, I was fit. And so based off my athletic testing, they had told me is like, you would be a good fit for the sport. Now we have to get you in a sled to see if you actually like it.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Because that's the test for all of us. It's like, can you actually handle the trip down the track? Can you handle going 80 miles per hour in an ice chute down a track? I had athletic talent, so they wanted to make this work. Like, we always need new recruits. We need athletic people. And so they want to make this work. And so they made sure I was with a really good driver and then sent me on my way to see what happened.

• 22:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, tell me about the first run.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Oh, the first run was wild. I had no idea what to expect. And you just get down and there's so much vibration. It's so loud. And you're just like, what just happened? And I think it was that feeling is like, I don't know what that was, but I could do it again. If this is the path to make an Olympic team, I think I could tolerate this. Little do you know, like, there are way worse runs than my first run. You don't know the scope of how bad it could really be. But for the most part, just even a good bobsled run isn't the most comfortable ride.

• 23:06Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I'm just thinking about your language there and like, what a generalizable parenting lesson that is, life lesson. Your first run, you do it louder, harder. But your thought is, I guess I could do that again. You didn't say to yourself, all right, I'll train for the next couple of years. That's like a long horizon. You're just saying, I guess I could do that again.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It makes me think, like, one step at a time.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yep. And that's exactly, you have to take bobsled one step at a time. Because there is so much that goes into it. You're manipulating the sleds. You're like your own mechanic. You're doing all these different things. And you have no idea what you're doing. You're completely a novice. And fortunately, when I came on the team at the time, there was already this pairing that were silver medalists. And so I had the opportunity to be next to them and just learn as much as I could. And that's really what I took it as, is like, hey, these people are already the best in the world at doing this. I have an opportunity to learn from them and I'm going to see if I can learn as much as possible and try and figure this out on my own.

• 24:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Do you feel like, if I think about certain traits that you have, that are clearly like 99th, 100th percentile, is it, I'm really good at getting really good at things or I'm really good about being a novice?

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Really good at being a novice. And it's funny, because within my household, I have an older sister and a younger sister. And both of them pick up things way easier than I do. Way more athletic, like, are easy to pick stuff. So for me, it takes me a while to pick up stuff. Like, even when I first started bobsledding, I still wasn't very good. Like, I was loading into the sled like a softball player would. I was athletically very talented. Like, sliding in the sled, like a figure four slide, versus what they tell you to do is like, long jump. And they're telling you, long jump in the sled, long jump. And the technique, they're telling you all these different things to power clean. And it's like, I'm a softball player. Versus most of the athletes in bobsled come from track and field. So they're using terms that they all understand, but I have no idea what they're talking about.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  So I wasn't picking up what they were saying. And for me, I just needed a lot of reps. I needed a lot of runs. I needed a lot of opportunity to give it a try. And so it took me a while to figure it out. But once I figure it out, I'm good to go.

• 25:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's just mind blowing to me how the things, me too, that I think I want for my kid are actually going to maybe work more against them later in life than the opposite. Like, we all want our kids to be amazing at things. Okay? And to focus on the sport and get really good. But later in life, like, I don't know, that has limited applicability, both because whatever sport they're good at, if it's a sport, or if it's chess, or debate, or being in a play, whatever it is, chances are, in the real world, when competition gets stiffer, I don't know. They, they might not be great at that thing. But even worse, getting used to being really, really good at something as a kid.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Stops you from putting yourself in a position, when you're older, where you're willing to be a novice. Which is, I agree, is kind of the most important thing. And it don't let, oh, I'll try that. Right? Oh, sure, I haven't tried that before, but let me see. And it's just so fascinating to hear that even an Olympic medalist would say truly, I think I'm better at being a novice than being really good at things.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Oh, without a doubt. And you actually see that in sport. Like, it actually bears out. Is like those, a lot of times, the kids who are really good at juniors, the ones who are best in the world as juniors, don't end up making it to the Olympic level, don't ma- end up making it to the professional level. Because they haven't learned that ability to how to adapt and how to learn and how to continue to grow. It's like, you were already good at some point and you were the best. You didn't have to learn the skills to become the best. You were naturally just there. And so a lot of times you'll see, and the other thing you'll see overrepresented in Olympic medalists is people who played multiple sports growing up. And because that need to play multiple sports or that ability to play multiple sports causes you to adapt. It causes you to think about sport differently

• 27:07Speaker 01

  and it causes you to be a novice in each and every sport. Because unlike super specialized kids, you haven't had the hours, you haven't had the 10,000 hours to put into one thing. And so you have to constantly be learning in the sport you're in, in whatever season, because you're quote unquote, behind the eight ball of, compared to the other kids who are specialized in it.

• 27:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And then I guess, just you get more used to feedback from coaches? Right? You, you just get used to kind of having to work hard for your starting spot. I always think about the story, that Cooper flag. Um, as soon as he was the best in his gym, his parents moved him to a new gym. Like, never, you know, you cannot be the best. And, um, constantly, constantly a novice in a way. Right? Constantly having to fight for things and take feedback to do better. Tell me a little bit how, how race has been a part of the challenges you face.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny, because the reason I got into bobsled, one of the reasons I got into bobsled was Vanetta Flowers in 2002 became the first African American to win a gold medal and she won in the sport of bobsled. So even at that age, I was a freshman in college. Like, seeing her be able to do that, she looked like me, she was right down the road. She grew up on the same stretch of highway as I did. And so seeing that helped me believe it. But when I got in the sport, I didn't realize, like, she was one of one. There weren't many people who looked like us in the sport. And so throughout my entire career, I've really tried to make sure that it is a place where people who look like me and all kinds of people of color could feel comfortable. Uh, because I'm a huge believer in like, hey,

• 28:41Speaker 01

  in order to have the best talent in the US, we have to attract the best talent. And the best talent doesn't all look one way. I think in bobsled, we have a saying, like, it's as white as the snow. And historically, it has been. But now, to not only be in this point where I've made an impact, where I've been able to be in the sport because of Vanetta, but I've also influenced other people getting in the sport and other people see me and they're able to join the sport. We've been able to create a more inclusive space. And so it's been incredible to see the growth of the sport. And yes, cool runnings played a big part in that. Everybody's seen the Jamaicans. But it's funny, it's like, that movie, that happened in 88 Olympic Games. Uh, but up until that point, there have been very few black athletes who have gotten into the sport,

• 29:25Speaker 01

  even with the movie, even with the Disneyfication of it and all this kind of stuff like that. Uh, but I think having the people actually in the sport, day in and day out, competing and winning and stuff, it's really changed what the sport looks like. And I think it's made for a better sport in that sense. But not to say it hasn't been without its struggles. I mean, you get the typical things at the, and early in the career. Like, it was funny, I started bobsled in 2007, but even in 2007, when I got on the team, I was meeting people who had never met black people before, who grew up in towns in Idaho or Wyoming and whatever. And I was their first interaction with a black person. And so navigating that, you know, feeling like, oh, I'm the entire representation of black people that you have in your mind right now.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  You know, it's a lot to carry. But at the same time, I always believed is like, you have commonalities, you can find commonalities within what you're doing, within the sport. And if I go out there and I'm a good person within the context of sport, maybe I could change that person's mind or even influence what they now think about the first black people they're meeting or the first, or black people in general. Um, it's really been, it's been one of the greatest roles I've had in my life. It's also been one of the most challenging. You know, everybody's going to have different experiences in sports. Some people are going to win Olympic medals, but the vast majority of people are not going to win Olympic medals. But I believe sport has a power to do things for people's lives. It has a power to change people's lives. It has a power to introduce them to people,

• 30:54Speaker 01

  allow them to see the world and so many other things in that regard. So I want people to have that opportunity that I had, regardless of what they look like.

• 31:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So now you're a mom, two boys.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Nico and Noah. Jump in there, like the transition from this intense shy, honey shy with peers, but not shy at all and seeking adventure kid, softball player, failed Olympian, not really, decorated Olympian, just in a different sport that you didn't see coming, also a mom. Like, how, how was all this led you to this point? And what, what do you take from all those years and all these lessons in your parenting?

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Um, one of the biggest things I think I take is that perspective is that's what my kids gave me continuing to compete while I had kids gave me the perspective to know is like, hey, first of all, you're not defined by a single sport. Kids don't care whether you race, kids don't care whether your race went well or poorly. They just don't care. They don't care if you have to be up at 6:00 AM the next morning for training, doesn't matter. And so your perspective and my perspective shifted completely after trying to compete after I had my first son. And also it's weird because my first son too, both my sons are deaf. Uh, my oldest has Down syndrome as well, but having your first kid with Down syndrome is like your definition of achievement also completely changes.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  What success looks like now completely changes is like you go to the doctor every single, whatever, first month, three months, six months, all these checkups and they're asking you to check off on a list what your kid has achieved and constantly at every single appointment, you're telling them, my kid hasn't achieved, my kid hasn't done this yet, my kid hasn't walked or talked or any of these things. And so they define achievement as one thing. And even as an athlete, achievement is defined as one thing, it's the medals. But being a parent and taking that into athlete, you know, as an athlete is that your achievements are defined by other things. Like I define my achievement by the work I put in. I know how hard it is to win an Olympic medal.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  I know it's not guaranteed and I know that my goal going into every single Olympics is that if I can be proud of the work I've done, then I'm successful. If I can be proud of the, my, my preparation going into that race, then I'm successful. And it's kind of the same with parenting. Like if I can be proud of how I parent my children, then I'm going to be happy regardless of how it eventually turns out. And for our sons, we don't know what the future holds. Like every day it's adapting and, and trying to figure this out. And it's the same for any parent disability or not. You don't know how it's going to turn out, but are you proud of the work you put in? Are you proud of how you worked to be the best parent you could?

• 33:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So you've built a career on sport, on play in a way. What does play look like now with your kids?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, it still is sport a little bit. Um, it's not only introducing them to different sports and it's funny they, I don't know that they're going to be bobsledders or anything like that. They really love Olympic weightlifting for some reason, maybe because I'm terrible at it, but also play in the sense that I love to bobsled because it's a puzzle at the end of the day. It's a puzzle of how I put each curve together. Every track in the world is different. Every curve in the world is different. And so I have to put the puzzle together correctly in order to win races. And so for them, it's introducing different types of play. It's introducing what sparks their joy. For me, putting that puzzle together sparks my joy.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Like there's no activity I love more than driving a bobsled down the track. And for me now, especially in this season, it's about finding what sparks that joy in them. What is that play? And for now, right now, my younger son, it's animals. My older son, it's moving and it's being out. And, and so I see myself him in that, in that way, because he loves to move, he loves to feel his body and he's relatively new to it. Like he just started walking at the age of five, so he's really exploring what his body can do. And I find a lot of play in that sense with him. It's been a lot of fun to explore what that looks like for him. And my younger son, like he's just all over the place, but animals are his thing. So it's really fun now to figure out what play looks like for them and to also realize that it looks different for each kid.

• 35:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Okay. Take me to this moment, two heats behind, walking into your final run in Italy, 41, your fifth Olympics. What's going on, going on in your head right before?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Right before, absolutely nothing's going on in my head. Like I got up and I had my earphones playing and all this kind of stuff like that. Like I was generally warming up. I'm a pretty anxious person. And so before the race, I'm pretty anxious, but it's once the race starts and actually once the warmups and everything in the preparation starts, like I have a job to do. So everything's scripted out, like what time I'm going to start my warmups, what time I'm going to go put on my uniform, what time I'm going to walk up to the start house. So everything's scripted out. And so once I'm actually in the environment of the race, I get to just go perform. And I love that moment. Like that is the moment that I live for is like, I just get to go there and throw down the best possible runs I can.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Win, lose or draw, throw it out there and see what happens. And that's what's kind of hard sometimes being an athlete is because you put your hard work, your heart, your soul out there for everyone to see. And for me, I love that moment and not all athletes do, but for me, when I step to the line at the Olympic stage, basically I'm just taking in the entire environment. I'm hearing every single cheer. I'm feeling what the air feels like blowing in the track. I'm feeling everything because I know like at that moment, something great could happen or something bad could happen, but I've put in the work and I'm going to see what happens regardless.

• 36:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's interesting for me to hear you say, I'm not thinking anything. Like once, I think about a lot of things, but once I'm in that moment, I have a process, you've probably done it a million times, it's step by step. And I don't know if the flow state, but it just, something shifts.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for me, it's the crowd, is being able to hear the crowd and being able to feel the electricity in the air. And I remember very distinctly in 2018 at those Olympics, like when the vat, like there's thousands of people up there screaming and yelling and I could hear my mom's voice out of that crowd. And most athletes, when you go to bobsled line, they'll tell you they don't hear anything, but I hear it all and I could distinctly hear my mom's voice right before I took off. And for me, it's reassuring. It's like, the feeling is like, hey, everybody's out here to watch you do what you love to do. Let's go put on a show, let's go entertain and see what happens.

• 37:42Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And in terms of what's happened, what feeling like on the podium?

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Oh man, um, it's been incredible every single time, but the recent one in the gold medal takes the cake. Like I, like every single time you get to stand up there and get a medal wrapped around you. I mean, my first medal, when I won a bronze medal, first Olympics, like you couldn't tell me anything. I was on cloud nine, I had done it. I thought that was all I needed to do with my life. Like nobody could tell me anything, uh, but fast forward to winning a gold medal, finally. It was, it was overwhelming in the sense that I know how much it took to win that medal, but I also know how much everyone sacrificed to win that medal. It wasn't just me on that podium, even though it was, it was all those people that I took with me to actually win that.

• 38:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Do you have it with you?

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I saw it, Lana.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  And it's actually the lightest of all my medals, lightest and smallest. I was like, I finally win a gold medal and it's, I get the smallest one.

• 38:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  What is that about? You know what? Still substantial in what it represents and amazing. Thank you. I want to talk about this phrase, challenge accepted, right? Doing this theories all along that theme. I don't think a kid hears the phrase challenge accepted and needs to hear that means I'm going to win or I'm going to be the best or I'm not scared. What is, what does that phrase mean to you? What has it meant across your life? Challenge accepted?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me, it's actually been that. It's been going after something regardless of how the results turned out. Like I think at some point softball was a challenge accepted and it's like make an Olympic team or not. Like that was break or bust. Like there was only two options there, but I think as I've continued on, like it's really turned into, hey, let's see what can happen. And you know, it's funny, it's like my husband's really played a lot of, a big part in how I've like been able to shift things is because he always told me like, when you're faced with a challenge or you're faced with an opportunity, you have two options. You could either do it and worst case scenario, you get a good story out of it or you don't even try.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  And he's like, sometimes just doing it is worth a story. And so that's how we kind of take on things. It's like, okay, will I get a good story out of this if it doesn't work out? And in most cases it's yes. So you might as well accept the challenge and, and take it on. And, and that's the kind of thing we try to pass down to our sons. Um, and it's kind of how this whole journey started. Like when I had my second son, like the recovery from that birth was really rough and everything like that, but it was one of those kinds of things, like this is a challenge, why don't we see what happens? Like you just, nobody's done this. We just take it on and see what can happen. The worst thing that could happen is I don't make an Olympic team, but I've made four Olympic teams prior to this and I'll get a good story.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Like I'll get a good story about me traveling around the world with two kids who are deaf and, and trying to figure this out. Um, and it's like in retrospect, it's a little crazy, but at the same time, like I wouldn't change it for anything because it was one of those moments, like for me, it was always important to try and take on the challenge and not only go for it, but also show my kids that I'm going to fail. In that challenge, I was going to fail, but it was important to, for them and for me to show them that their mom could stand back up when she does ultimately fail at this challenge she took after.

• 41:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I really love that. And I'm just thinking how usable it is for families too, where, you know, sometimes we paint this kind of fork as, okay, did you win? Let's not focus so much on winning because also it just limits what we're willing to do. Okay, what did you learn? But there's something about the language of a story, it's just lighter and it's true. Like when something doesn't go our way, I don't know what I learned. I maybe I'll figure it out later, but I, I might have a story if I don't have to have, may not have a lesson. And I think about the dinner table of, you know, you know, what we're going to do at dinner is, you know, we all have different things we try during the day. We all have different times we're willing to be a beginner or put ourselves out there and share stories and they're funny stories, they're ridiculous stories. I'm just thinking about a kid who grows up with some of that, looking at the next adventure

• 41:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  when they're out of their house is, oh, no matter what, this is, this is going to be a good story to bring to my, you know, to my dinner table. It's, it's so freeing.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's how we connect too, as people. It's like we connect over shared stories. It's like humans started off sitting around a fire and sharing stories and, and we haven't lost that, like that hasn't been. Out of our DNA, like that's still to our core who we are. We want to share stories. Like even parents, you want to share stories with your kids. You want to share the different things you've done in your life with your kids. You want them to not only learn lessons from it, so they don't have to go through the same things, but also you want to be able to connect with them in that way. You want to be able for them to understand that you were a kid once too, and you went through some of the things they're going through too. And you do that by sharing stories. Like if you just tell your kid is like, hey,

• 42:37Speaker 01

  don't do that. They're like, okay, you just told me something like, I don't know why you told me this or anything. But if you explain to them, it's like, hey, let me tell you the story about one time when I tried this thing that you're trying to do and it didn't work out. And this is why I'm telling you not to do this, because I have a story to tell you. I have an experience that could teach you something.

• 42:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  What does challenge accepted mean to you now in a season where challenge might not be a race right in front of you?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Challenge accepted now looks completely different. For me, it really is using the time to take care of myself and take care of myself within the context of that. I also have two children I have to take care of. I also have to figure out, you know, what are we doing about schools? What are we doing about therapies? What are we doing about all these different things? And I think as an athlete, you're always taking care of yourself in a certain way. You're taking care of yourself with the guard of, hey, I need to go out there, win an Olympic medal. And in some ways, it's very narcissistic and selfish, because you have to make sure you're sleeping eight hours a night. You have to do X, Y, and Z, because your body is your reasoning. But now, that idea of self-care

• 43:50Speaker 01

  and that idea of looking after myself is a completely different challenge. Because what does that look on a daily basis when I have to be up first thing in the morning to take my son to school? And it's super important that he has his activities and stuff. And how do I take care of myself within this time? And also, how do we recover from 20 years of sport? Like, it's done its number. It hasn't been the easiest thing, transitioning out of sport and figuring out what's next. And so, that's really the next challenge is how do you figure out how to take care of yourself within this context of you're still a mom at the end of the day?

• 44:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. Beautiful. Well, thank you. I love hearing all your stories. You're an incredible storyteller. It's not lost on me that you're talking at the end about how we connect through stories. And you started by talking about being a shy kid with peers. But I'm thinking about how your adventurous spirit brought you so many stories. And now you use those stories to form such deep connection to people. So it feels very full circle. So, thank you.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 44:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's what I want to leave you with, an idea. And then I'm going to tell you the exact conversation I'm going to have with my own kids over dinner, just in case it resonates and you want to steal any part of it. Okay, but here's the idea. I think a lot of us have kids who are focused on certain things. Maybe it's softball. It's probably not bobsled. It might be the arts or performance or some activity that they feel good at. And it's really interesting, this pivot point, when something is something a kid loves and they're good at into, ooh. All of a sudden, we've kind of started looking at our kid like this is their identity. My kid is a softball player. My kid is an artist. My kid is an actor. My kid is a piano player. And at some point, there might be a pivot.

• 45:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And at that point, when your kid doesn't make the team, or I don't know, they injured their finger and can no longer play piano, it's going to feel like their world comes crashing down. And I just think there's such a lesson from what we heard from Alana, which is yes, that's going to happen. It's going to come crashing down. And there is something that's probably unimaginable now that's on the other side. There's a lot of stuff that makes your kid who they are, that has nothing to do with this one identity. That's what I'm going to be thinking about. Now, here's what I'm going to talk to my kids about tonight. I'm going to pose the same question that I posed to Alana. And I'll walk through how I'm going to do this. I'm going to probably say something like this. Is it better to

• 46:24Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  be someone who's really, really good at something? Or is it better to be someone who's really comfortable, really good at being a beginner? No, I'm going to kind of pose it like that, as if it's just my own pontification. I always feel like when I pose a question, and I kind of wonder aloud about it, my kids are more willing to wonder about it with me, because it doesn't seem like I'm looking for a specific answer. Anyway, maybe my kids will take the bait, say something. To be honest, if you're thinking, my kid's just going to say, why are you being weird? Ask a normal question. My kid might say that too. I just tend not take the bait. You can say, well, I was just listening to this podcast. That's what I'm going to say. I just had this podcast. And it was just so interesting to me that here

• 47:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  is one of the most decorated Olympians, six medals, including a gold. And she doesn't think about herself as someone who's really good at something. She thinks about someone who's really good at being a beginner, trying new things, not worrying how good she is at it, learning and just trying again. Anyway, do I think my kid's going to say, Mom, that's really going to help me when I do math this year? Because no. Do I think my kid's going to say anything at all that's profound? No. I think my kids are normal kids like yours. But I do think it really sinks in, hopefully as part of other conversations. And then you can refer back to it. Anyway, if that resonates, try it. Let me know how it goes.

• 47:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And if your kid does say something profoundly important, please email [email protected]. I would love to celebrate that with you. All right. Now, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves,

• 48:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  even as we struggle on the outside, which maybe is a way of saying, even as we're a beginner, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon.

• 48:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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