Why Human Relationships are the Ultimate ROI

In this episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience, I go on the My First Million Podcast with Shaan Puri and Sam Parr to break down the behind-the-scenes operations of my seven eight-figure businesses and how I manage them all without losing my mind. I discuss why the 15-minute meeting is my secret weapon for productivity and how I’ve moved to leading with Kind Candor. I also share my perspective on "long-term greed" and why building a relationship graph is the most important thing you can do for your career. You’ll learn about:The Power of "Kind Candor" in ManagementThe Future of the "Individual Empire" and Creator-EntrepreneursWhy Live Shopping is the Next Major Shift in Global Commerce

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You have this guy, Nick DiO. He's like, hosts these dinners, almost like on behalf of Gary. Who is this guy? What is he doing?

• 0:07Speaker 01

  So I'll, I'll tell everybody who's listening. Nick DiO is the VP of Relationships. He literally goes around the world. And in essence, he's been with me for 12 years. Started as an intern, grew up in VaynerMedia. I trust him to represent me to some degree. Because I can't be everywhere. And about two, three years ago, I realized my favorite thing about business is people. It's probably why I ended up having an agency with 3,000 people. When that's not the best business model. It's why I make so much content. I just like the people part. And Nick just became another version of that, which is like, I can't be everywhere. Who's got a better job than Nick? Go around the world and listen carefully. If there's something, we could do something for someone for karma.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Like no KPI, no ROI. And Nick, you know me so well, you, you know, we have so much to give. Just keep your ear to the ground. You know, figure out who's got the right intent. Figure out who's talking shit and not talking shit. Like who's good? This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Gary, let me ask you a hard hitting question. I've known you now for a few years, a while now.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Do you own a computer?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? I did not own a computer. I'm on a computer right now. I did not own a computer for four or five years. It going into COVID.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  So what, what year did you buy your first laptop?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I bought my first, I mean, I had a computer.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, what, what year did you, do you regularly use a laptop?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  I went full phone because I didn't work within Excel or any documentation. And it was all email, meetings, social. So I, I think I stopped having a laptop in 15. Went to 19 without one, but I've had one since.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  We had a

• 1:58Speaker 00

  You know those luxury brands where it's like Quiet Wealth or whatever where there's no label? We've we've we've found the podcast version of this, which is that the richest guys who come on the pod, they don't know how to use a computer. They're like assistant sets up a screen, they just show up. We had one guy try to share his screen and he was like, honestly, he's like, honestly, guys, this is this is bad. I don't know what I don't even know what I'm doing. We go, just click in Chrome. He goes, what's Chrome? He didn't even know what

• 2:24Speaker 00

  I don't think I have one of those.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  It's ironic. I would actually argue, you know, it's so crazy to think of evolution. So I went through those four years. It was the best, like not having a laptop at the airport. Like it was the best. And now it's completely the opposite, right? Like my OpenClaw computer is like the most important thing in my life, right? It's just so fascinating.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Well, that's what one of the reasons I was asking you that was I thought you weren't a computer guy. We had Mark Lorion, who I think is a multi billionaire. And that was the first time Sean and I learned about this where he he didn't use a laptop and we were it was funny. He's like, I actually only use my phone. But I've never seen

• 2:58Speaker 00

  What are you doing with OpenClaw, Gary?

• 2:59Speaker 02

  And that's what I was gonna ask you. What are you doing like on with AI at a regular basis now?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  I mean, lots of things. I think with OpenClaw specifically, I'm using it as a capture all for all information. What's been really fascinating, even with three admins and chief of staff and all this. I'm still like, I never got there, like some of my friends where their chief of staff is with them in every meeting. So there's so much loss, you know, I'm not a no taker, back to the whole entrepreneur of it all. So there'd be like so much context lost, right? Like in a meeting, so much opportunity missed. So one of the first things I've done with OpenClaw is it might even happen here. I might literally take a photo of this screen and be like, talk to these guys and we got it like and then so it's a photo sent to my OpenClaw on text and then a voice note saying, me and the boys were talking about China.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Make sure I do like like it's just basically a capture all. It's mainly for CRM for me right now, relationship graph. And then what's so amazing, right, is once it understands my relationship graph, now I'm just building, you know, logic and agents on top of it to like, keep me updated on when things are happening, like even sending you guys an email automatically in two years, saying congrats on a trillion downloads, because it knows I know you, it knows that was a milestone for you. And I do want to, you know, say what's hey, good job, you know, like, like, it's just like relation, it's scaling all my favorite things about humans is definitely step one for me.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Are you recording this in granola or what are you, where are you recording this in?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  I'm, I, I, granola is what I tend to use. I'm just, I'm actually not doing it right now for some reason.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  You, um, you just said something about relationships and you have this guy, Nick Deo.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  I think you had, I don't know if he's still with you, but

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  This fascinated me. Somebody told me, um, I don't know the exact model, but they said, you gotta ask him about Nick because he does these really interesting things. He's like, hosts these dinners, almost like

• 4:55Speaker 02

  It was me.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  of Gary. Like, like it's like Gary wants you to come to dinner.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Send me a photo. It was Sam, Sam brought up to you because now I remember Nick bringing up Sam. Yeah. I mean, my

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Who is this guy? What is he doing?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  And this is, so I'll, I'll tell everybody who's listening. This is actually a pretty, this will be good. This is going to be good for your crew. I think at some point is all of us go through it. You start to, every day, and I'm sure you guys are feeling this. You're, you're a generation behind me and then a lot of the kids that are listening. Every kind of like five, 10 years, you get wiser, you get more thoughtful, you learn things and you, you know, you start to understand more and more why you're doing things. Right? Like for example, I'm going to DB, that's what I like to do. Uh, I feel like at some point I was like, oh, I, I got to the quote unquote top because I was over loved. It was good. It was like good fuel and I have a feeling I'll be able to stick around.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Because I started seeing so many people get to the top out of bad fuel, extreme insecurity because of what their parents did wrong or childhood. And they're going to fucking show it to everyone. And they're like, you know, that was a big aha moment in my early 40s. About two, three years ago, I realized why Nick Deo exists. So for everyone, Nick Deo is the VP of relationships. He literally goes around the world. And in essence, he's been with me for 12 years, started as an intern, grew up in VaynerMedia.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I trust him to represent me to some degree. Because I can't be everywhere and about 2-3 years ago, I realized my favorite thing about business is people. It's probably why I ended up having an agency with 3,000 people when that's not the best business model. It's why I make so much content. It's, you know, you guys have gotten to know me a little, like, you guys know, like, like, some of the subtle differences of how I roll than like, let's say, like, people that tend to look like me, like, I just like the people part and Nick just became another version of that, which is like, I can't be everywhere. And I, and who's got a better job than Nick?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Go around the world and literally, and by the way, when he goes around the world, it's go to cool places and cool shit. And listen carefully, if there's something, we could do something for someone for karma.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Like, no JBI, no ROI, like, like, pay attention. And Nick, you know me so well, you, you know, we have so much to give. Just keep your ear to the ground. Uh, here's where he does a great job. Figure out who's fucking full of shit and who's a good person. You know, figure out who's got the right intent. Figure out who's talking shit and not talking shit, like, who's good? Who's good?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Well, let me tell you what it was like from my perspective. I got a DM from you and I don't think I, you could have said it and there's a chance I didn't read it, uh, closely. But it said like, "Hey, I'm gonna be in Austin, do you wanna get dinner?"

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just said yes. And then I just got sent an invite and the invite, like I said, it could have said the details, but I show up and it's like 50 people, it was at a very wealthy person's home, this like Microsoft executives home. And I'm like, "Hey, where's Gary?" They're like, "Oh, he, he's not here, but I'm here, I'm Nick and I'm hosting it on his behalf."

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yours was, yours was felt like more of a Roba dope?

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  No, but I, I wanna give you credit, I don't think I read it, there's a chance I didn't read it, but I get there and I met like this-

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I remember, I remember that party, because I was one of the bigger ones. It was never alluded, like, I apologize, I apologize if we didn't word it well, but I remember the context, like, we weren't trying to trick you to meet Nick.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so, and I bet like- I met this cool dude named Hunter. Do you know Hunter? I think his name's Woodall. He's got one leg and he like won the Paralympics. He was badass. I met like all this like, it was like this athlete, this Microsoft executive, this person, this person. I met all these cool guys. Um, it was awesome.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Which is the easiest way, by the way, to spread good karma and good and like, you know, add value is just, hey, let me just connect you with 10 other awesome people.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  In a real way.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  What can I do for you? Right? That's the easiest way to do it.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is a, that was one. And it was early in Nick's world where, um, we, uh, I wanted him to get a broader like understanding of different people that were in the, you know, what's tough about things for busy people that like, you know, relationships is you just can't scale. You're a human, right? And so like I end up with like these unlimited, uh, business acquaintances that I wish I could take to the next step. And Nick helps me scale that a little bit by decoding a little bit because I trust his intuition. He's been with me a long time, grew up with me and he represents me well. And he's smart and, and, and I trust him. So then when he hits me and says, hey, um, you know,

• 9:36Speaker 01

  this person really needs a new marketing person. Like this is how, I, I don't think I'll ever, when I'm long gone, I think good stories will come out. Like this is a true example. Hey, this kid's got a good DC brand. It's gone from zero to 20 million. We're not an investor in the company. I have no vested interest. They, they just lost their head of marketing. He was like over dinner talking in a group of 12, like he's stressed and worried. And then three weeks earlier, one of my best people at Vayner came to me, you know, uh, after eight years and said, I don't want to do agency anymore. And like literally just putting that person in that company and everyone wins. And literally I don't have a dollar in the company, literally nothing, literally no transact. And like, we do that.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  In a way that I, I now do feel three, like in the last three years, people are starting to understand Gary and Gary V a little more like, because we're doing it at such scale. That eventually the truth becomes your actual reputation.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  How do you um?

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Sorry, Sam, I just gotta say one thing on this, cuz I think to add on the surface, it's like, okay, great, so this guy hosts dinners, that's cool, sounds like he's he's got a mandate to spread good karma and just help people, that's cool. I think this is actually unbelievable, and I can't believe you don't talk about this more. This is like, you know when that story came out a few years ago, where it said LeBron James spends a million dollars a year on his body? And people went nuts, and this went everywhere. This is like a global thing, other athletes turned on to this. And I was thinking about it the other way, I was like, first of all, obviously, this guy's a billion dollar athlete, for him to spend a million dollars a year on his body, that's like, a masseuse, a trainer, a chef, and that's nothing. He should be spending three, four times that, if anything. Second is, what a great question

• 11:15Speaker 00

  everybody should ask themselves, who wants to be great, is what is your equivalent of spending a million dollars a year on your body? And, you know, my executive coach, for example, he spent a million dollars getting coaching himself from the best in different disciplines, he would overpay and say, how do I get, how do I go do an immersion with you? I know you usually do once a week, but I wanna do immersion, cuz he's like, I wanna be the best coach, so I'm gonna go learn all the modalities from the best teachers of those modalities. And I just think everybody should ask this, and what you're doing with Nick, to me, is the equivalent of LeBron James spends a million dollars a year on his body, is Gary spends, Gary's spent probably at this point, five million plus, 10 million maybe, on just developing relationships with people who he thinks are doing good things in the world. He wants to be the wind in their sails.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  I have three full-time employees at VaynerX, who host influencers that are emerging, to walk through the office and meet brand teams, to maybe get them brand deals on pure karma.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, see, that's amazing. And I think that that type of investment, it only comes from first principles.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Doing good things for people is literally the highest ROI and lowest risk thing, and most people think it's the highest risk thing, because when they're doing something good, they're not doing something good, they're doing something calculated, with the with the expectation, or at least minimumly, the hope that something comes back to them.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Well, but on the other side of that, it could be like, well, I need to, I'm spending money on these things. I have bills to pay. I, I, I like, so.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  That's Sam, to your point, I didn't do this the first 30 years of my career. Like, I got to a place where I could afford investing in that.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but what I was gonna ask you is, I think that you've always, you, from what I could tell, you've always defaulted to hiring a lot of people. I think that, like, um, that it seems like that's kind of been your, your, your, your, how you like to operate. And also, you've defaulted to doing things that don't really make sense on paper, but because you're you, it does appear as though it works out nicely in terms of profit, not, it also works out and you're happy about it. How do you, like, justify doing some of these things that don't make any sense financially, knowing that, like, when VaynerMedia was five or 10 years old and your margins were a bit tighter and you didn't have enough money to go around to do some of these wacky things, and yet it still appears as though you did do them?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  You're, you're absolutely right, I did. Um, it's a really good observation. I think the very simplest, clean, you know, this is now me respecting the audience because I think you have a sharp one. It's because I think most things that are taught in business school are short sighted and are tactical versus how humanity actually works and business actually works.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Like, if you're, and, and then I would also say that I am inherently a marathon runner, so I train for marathons in a world where most of my contemporaries on paper are sprinters, and they train for sprinting, and that's appropriate for them.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Alexis Ohanian was at one of our events, and he, uh, checked me in the best way possible. We were talking about how, yeah, we wanted to get this great group together. You know, we don't charge anything. I pay for this whole event out of pocket. I pay like a quarter million dollars a year just to host this event. And it's like, look, I asked nothing in return, which is all about, you know, just having a really, and everybody's like this. We're all like a generous crew. And he goes, no, no, no, that's not it. And I was like, oh shit, what is he, uh, what is he about to say? And he goes, he goes, it's just the difference between short-term greedy and long-term greedy. He goes, you know, I'm, he was in the first YC batch, and he goes, one of the beautiful things about Silicon Valley. You learn the virtue of long term, long term greedy people. And he goes, it's not a bad thing. It's everybody obviously wants their interest, but when it's long term greedy, you're going to play a totally different game than short term greedy.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  And then I would, that's exactly right. And I would tell you my nuance that I do see in some others, which is why I gravitate towards them is, and then if your greed is about rainy day human stuff, not money in your bank, it becomes an extreme nuance of that.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  So what's rainy day human stuff? What does that mean?

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Uh, I probably do everything I'm doing, not to get into a deal in nine years and put a million and make 40 million. More for my daughter has an issue in nine, in 19 years in her personal life. And for some reason, Sam's nephew can help her.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Right? Like I'm good enough to take care of my money part.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I'm thinking like, like fuck, man, your mom has a rare form of cancer and you have unlimited equity in the universe that everyone rallies like the fucking Avengers and helps you.

• 15:56Speaker 03

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• 16:53Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's hard to run a business that way. Being nice all the time because you have to make difficult decisions like firing someone if they suck. But you seem like you are a really bad firer. Do you give people lots of... Would you... Is that one of your weaknesses, you think? Is like being overly generous?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. I literally wrote a book because I was so bad at it. I hid it. But it was called 12 and a Half. And, you know, it was a 13 leadership principle type book from my perspective at that point in my career. And in the book, the 13th principle was a half. And it was called candor. And I spoke about my journey. And I was only ready, Sam, to write about it. You know, you can only talk about your alcoholism when you're like feeling like you're close to fixing it, right? And by the way, back to like alcoholism or what I was dealing with, which was you're incredibly wrong, Sam. I wasn't a bad firer. I was an all-time atrocious firer. Right? And I didn't see it, right? All of us, currently, the three of us.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  And we're proud of ourselves in certain areas and know we can do. But currently, by far, the biggest problem the three of us have is something we can't see. Right? And so, I used to think of it as my ultimate strength, as is Sam. And it had so many beautiful effects. It led to so much good. But it actually ended up leading to the worst of the worst. Meaning, in my twenties, you know, I've been really managing people since I was 18 years old, right? With the liquor store, for real. Like truly, like this 18-year-old child is the boss, you know, because he's the boss's son in this liquor store. And all the way up to where I am now. And so, I used to think my greatest strength was eliminating fear. I had superhero syndrome, right? Like I can take care of everything.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  I got it. Like, and like, you know, come along and da-da-da. And I had this day in my early 40s, which led me to writing the book where I realized, I thought everybody was rolling with me with lack of fear, but that many in my company were scared because they didn't know where they stood with me because I was unable to do candor. And on Friday, I was like, Sammy, fucking have the best weekend, my guy. Like, have it like, really? I think you guys know me. I'm a little go lucky that way. I'm like, Sammy, have the best fucking weekend this weekend, right? And you're working with me for three years. Like, alright, Gary, like, you too. And then like Monday, I'd be like, Sam, you talk to him off the roof. Hey, so, you know, it's your last day. And by the way, I've been sitting on this for a year and a half. Right. Back to your point, Sam, right?

• 19:22Speaker 01

  And today's your last day. And you're like, what the fuck, bro? Like, I, like, you've never said anything. And then I would blame you. I'd be like, Sam, you're, you're so dilute. Like, could you, then I would talk to Sean and be like, Sean, can you believe Sam? Like, everyone in the company knows Sam sucked for the last 18 months. I was giving him a gift for the last year of charity, and he's mad at me? I was coming up with that excuse. So my candor was at a zero. I rebrand, so I have this real watershed moment where a group of former Vayner employees, like, were in a Facebook group, like, not talking nicely about me. And these were people I really had a lot of, continue, ironically, like, you know, it's funny, that person also over time realizes what they did. So there was like, a lot of them I've reconciled with in a great way,

• 20:05Speaker 01

  but it was really hurtful. But I knew I had to be accountable. I'm like, why are these people, who are all lovely people, who I really went to bat for, did a lot of great things for, who have really nice careers on the equity of their time with me? Why are they shitting on me? And it was all, and I knew it because I just looked at the eight names. And I was like, these were all sloppy exits. All of them. Hey, everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  You know what's funny is, have you guys sort of, obviously we have, but Jensen Hung, the Nvidia guy? He has this great line where he's like, "I'm not gonna fire you. I'm gonna squeeze you so hard that greatness comes out of you." And then, interestingly, Dave Portnoy, the founder of Barstool, he had another point where he goes, "I never fire anyone. I refuse to fire anyone, but we are..." are gonna make you great like he said something like that and I thought that was so fascinating because that's the exact opposite of what I think you know we had Neil Patel on and Neil was like I only hire people who have been there done that I only hire people who have built this thing already that I want built and if they can't do it then I fire them within a week which is probably honestly the more common attribute of like just hiring people who have been there done that and then if they suck right away you know you hear a higher slow fire fast

• 21:16Speaker 01

  I I bleed into both those categories by the way and then have a third element which is I'm the cliche girl that wants to date the bad boy because I'm gonna fix him right so I have bled my if I didn't have entrepreneurial DNA I would 100% be a therapist guidance counselor or a coach right like and so I allowed both in my investing and in my operating too much in my twenties through mid 40s too much of my nonprofit therapy DNA into my day to day I've been able to clean it up in the last five years and let me say this to anyone

• 22:01Speaker 01

  who's struggling with being too nice you know or because it was never that I was scared to not be liked it was that I thought I could fix it that I would squeeze it that I would make it but through love not like fucking trashing you like what you know and and so for anyone who's struggling with this like

• 22:18Speaker 01

  there's a better way like you know can't let me say it this way as long as you're delivering things with candor all of it becomes dramatically more palpable I was not I was holding it all in that became the vulnerability and I'm really glad as I've gotten to 50 I'm now in that place where I could be a lot better and it and it showed up in the business results I've been a dramatically better CEO the last three four years where I've cleaned up my candor I rebranded it into kind candor it became the ethos of our company Because I think candor a lot of times is used as an excuse to be a dickface and suppress people. And so we had to put that word kind in front of it. And it's a it's worked for me and for my leadership and it's been a big step forward in my career.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Let me ask you this, you give a lot of coaching and advice to entrepreneurs around the world. Who who do you learn from? So who you who do you call for advice? Who's a key? Who do you who do you steal from? You like, oh, man, I love the way this person I'm gonna take a piece of that to my game. I'm sure you're always learning. I'm not saying that, but I'm looking for like maybe a couple of people or blueprints.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  I've never been great at people. I, you know, I was a terrible, you know, clearly had some reading comprehension. The reason I was a poor student now in hindsight is my reading comprehension is non-existent. Right? So I learned through osmosis. I've learned through audio and video. But I learned the most through inhuman, right? Like it. One of the things I struggle with with the hybrid and work from home thing is I know there's half the world that learns the way I do. And if you're not learning through osmosis, which is so much easier in a physical environment than it is on a screen through a zoom, you'd be vulnerable. Like I would have really struggled to learn a company if I was an employee through the, you know, the documentation, right?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  So I learned from my mother's by far number one by a country mile because almost the far majority of what I do is predicated on the people and emotional intelligence front more than the information. I learned through social media at scale, right? Just like just consuming content at scale from random people that are farming carrots in Idaho to someone going deep cut on what they're doing with Claude code to pontificate. And it's truly like I am a product of this era.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Like who's video are you? Are you turning the sound on lately? You know, when you're scrolling Instagram?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Honestly, like I, you know, I'm pissed right now because I want to. My favorite thing is to give flowers. And the truth is, it's so weird, Sam. Like my brother, for example, would answer this epic. He's got his fucking ex so dialed in and he would sit here and talk about AI or live shop. But like he would give you like seven names and he'd be like, shout out to Matt Van Horn. You know, Matt Van Horn's a friend. Matt Van Horn's been vibe coach. Like he would be so good and I'm so shitty because the answer is as soon as you ask that I'm like, fuck, because I hate this question because for some reason it's so blurry to me, meaning like.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  I don't even know, right? It's like, it's like, it's just like information. Like, like, people follow the five to 12 best voices very well. And I'm like the beneficiary of this on the other side. A lot of people follow what they whatever want from me on it. My learning is happening and not even consuming the content. It's like being in the meetings. I mean, don't forget what's weird about me is I'm in the traffic of my businesses. Right? So here's something interesting, by the way, man. Back to the LeBron James million dollar thing. I have seven active businesses that are doing more than eight figures a year in revenue, where I am meaningfully involved.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Which ones are the?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Tell us about it. What do we got? Break them down. VaynerMedia, VaynerX, which is 400 million in revenue. I am the day-to-day CEO.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  And that owns all the other six?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  No, it owns, it owns none of the other six. Next, VaynerSports. You know, I took three recruiting calls yesterday with my brother. Like-

• 26:16Speaker 02

  What's VaynerSports doing exactly?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Oh, VaynerSports does sports representation. So we rep Kirk Cousins, Sauce Gardner, Aiden Hutchinson, Bo Bichette.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  And NIL stuff too now, or just pros?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  NIL at scale. We have probably 300 college athletes.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's doing tens of millions?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  That's doing tens of millions in revenue. I have VCR Group, which is a restaurant group, which is, if you remember famously, I had that NFT restaurant. News alert, everyone, it's crushing. It's called Flyfish Club. We also have K-Pons at Eto and five restaurants. And I'm actively involved texting with David Rodelitz all the time. So VCR Group, tens of millions in revenue as a restaurant group. I have VFriends. VFriends is probably the thing I'm most in, like AJ and David Rodelitz are 1A in the prior two businesses. I am 1A in VFriends. VFriends is gonna do minimally 20 million in revenue this year in licensing and selling comic books and coins and trading cards. I'm building a true brand.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Like, that, by the way, that is a dark horse chance to be really one of my greatest roses because all the ashes of the NFT era that I'm gonna get to the other side and be Marvel and Pokemon is gonna fuck with everyone so heavy in 15 years. Um Wine Library, people will be flabbergasted how involved I still am in the wine business. Um, my best friend runs it. I am definitely 1B to my dad and Brandon's 1A. But I work on it every single day. One that's really under the radar, Vayner Watt. I have a very successful TV production company that's kind of brewing right now called Vayner Watt. We have a bunch of shows that have quietly just sold, so you like literally on Hulu and ABC and Netflix,

• 28:03Speaker 01

  like you're gonna see Vayner Watt, Vayner Watt pop up. And then finally, and I'm sure not lost on you guys, the NIL and brand of Gary Vee. I have a full massive team on it. You know, it's a real part of my life. Um, speaking in books and content and NIL.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Do you have ads or just, or is it monetized via speaking?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Um, I, I did a deal with Stan, I did a deal with MasterClass. I'm starting to let, I'm starting to be open to Gary Vee. I don't do like a brand deal. I'll look at seven and eight figure NIL deals where it's really integrated, potentially me doing a little consulting as well. But I think you guys are prob, I'm writing a new book called The Individual Empire, which talks about the me, the Bartletts, the Alex Coopers, the, the, the rise of the creator entrepreneur and the entrepreneur creator as the next Fortune 500 companies. And my belief with AI blockchain, evolving social, you know, decentralization of Hollywood and Madison Avenue and Wall Street, that the biggest companies in the world are human-based organizations,

• 29:06Speaker 01

  where the human either has a partner that could operate, or they're a me, where they can be both. Um, so that's how I look at that world.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  You just, you just named.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, what?

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Oh, sorry. You, you just named like six or seven companies that are doing eight figures, that you're like, I'm either the 1A or the 1B. And I think that's awesome because I too wish I had 96 hours a day. And so, you know, walk us through, what's, what does the day look like? What's the time blocking look like for this, right? Like, you know, Elon is like, I spend three days here at SpaceX, three days at Tesla, then Saturdays, Sundays at work, and I work till 2 AM every day. Like, what is this, what's a day in the life of Gary Vee to do all this?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  You know, I wake up at 6:00 or 7:00, there's a workout session every day-ish. You know, I've actually been a little bit sporadic lately. I'm pretty much an 8:00 to 8:30, 8:00 to 9:00 a.m. star point. Done between 8:00 and 10:00 p.m., depending on the day. But there's not a single break, no lunch, no anything. Every minute's booked. 60% of the meetings are 15 minutes. And again, let's get to the point here, right? Let's get to the point here. This is 30 years of building equity. And Sam said something interesting. My secret weapon was hiring people. And again, you guys, again, this is fun talking to you than, let's say, a net new podcast where I've

• 30:30Speaker 01

  interacted a little bit with you guys. I had this feeling, which is truly, this has been a good prediction of mine. I had this feeling that I was going to be able to have a lot of really good A and B players around me that would stay with me, that could do bigger things, could do things on their own. But that the relationship and that, and that they would believe in me and that they would say, you know, in 15 years, I might actually make more money being Gary's number 13 versus me, my own number. I just had this intuit, and that I could convert D's into B's and C's into B's. I just had this feeling that my superpower was the human relationship side. And so the reason I can do this, so yes, I work a lot. And yes, I'm uncomfortably efficient with my time.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  And yes, I'm on a boat which has seven holes and I put my finger in the one that needs it most. For every parent that knows, you're only as happy as your most unhappy child. And so my ebbs and flows of like, oh shit, Vayner Sports needs me, or shit, Vayner. Like, there's all that. But the real reason is because of the 50 people from Ryan Harwood, or Kalen, or Claude, or JT, or AJ and Greg Gensky, or David Rottelitz and Connor Hamlet, or Andy Kay and John, and JT, John Trautman and May, and Ripson V. Friends, or Brandon Warnicki on Wine Library, or Eric Wattenberg, Vayner Watt, on that. And I've got another one coming that I'll announce next year, standalone business. And it's somebody who's worked for me for 11 years, who's going to be my co-founder. And I had the experience with Rezzy.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  You know, like, people forget that I'm the co-founder and inventor of Resy, but I had Ben Leventhal be the 1A, I was the 1B, and that was a hefty nine-figure exit. And I had Empathy Wines, two former interns of mine who worked for me for 11 years, and we started Empathy Wines, and in 18 months, sold it for almost nine-figure, hefty eight-figure deal to Constellation Brands. In 18 months, just like, you know, everyone's like, "Gruen's", I'm like, "I did that", not to 1.2 billion, but to, you know, you know, you know, and so, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's because when I do things on a net new business, the person is my family member. It's family business. We know everything about each other. It's seven to 10 years before we decided to do X, Y, and Z. They roll differently than a lot of people trying it.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  With net new people, they hire randomly.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  I was listening to you. Go ahead, Sam. Well, I was listening to your podcast this morning, and someone asked a question that a lot of content creators ask. They said, "I'm doing live shopping and live streaming, but I don't want to do this all the time, and I'm nervous that this all relies on me, and I want to get other content creators." You have listed six or seven businesses doing tens of millions in revenue. Presumably, you're getting close to a billion. You're doing many hundreds, at least, in revenue. And it all is started off of you, and I don't know what percent is run, or you get customers still for each thing because of you, but a lot of it's based on you and your content. Do you get nervous about that, or do you not care? You think, "I just love this so much that I ain't going anywhere."

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Not only do I not love it, not only is that true, Sam, I think I'm the preview, not the anomaly.

• 33:58Speaker 04

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• 34:30Speaker 00

  So you think there's a, you're like, this is a model that works.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  This is what's going to happen.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  This is what is happening.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Tell me.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Like, if you look at the derivatives of all the people that are like, kind of that crew right now, what do you think is happening? And then, of course, there's Kylie Jenner and Hailey Bieber, where they need a business person to also be around.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  But then there's also, like, I mean, you guys are like in, you know, everyone has different hopes and dreams. And Sam, you've nailed it. Like, to me, like, I love this shit. Bro, you know, people go and buy a home in the Bahamas and that's, and play golf and that, in Bakers Bay, and that's their escapism when they need an escape. People have skiing, people have so many, and sometimes unfortunately, they have bad things like drugs. And people need escapism, you're just going, when I need a break from VaynerX, which I do a lot, because client services suck shit. I don't go to Aspen. I go to two days off sites for V Friends, because it fucking fills my soul. And I do the comic stories of my characters. You know, or I go to a half day at Wine Library

• 35:34Speaker 01

  and talk to Brandon, because he's my best friend since I was 14, and I need it for my soul. But then we also fix the fucking business. Or I go on a six hour flight and ask AJ to come with me, because I need him, because he's my brother, and I just need that good energy, because I'm fucking frustrated with what's going on with V Friends or Wine Library, and we fix Vayner Sports. You know what I mean?

• 35:55Speaker 00

  What, uh, what's going on in these 15 minute meetings? Because I suspect what you're doing in 15 minutes is taking most people an hour. So maybe you have a format, maybe.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  I'm mad at you, bro. You took my shit. I was about, you asked that, I was about to say, the thing that everyone else is spending an hour on. Bro, this is gonna be one of the highlights that I know from this meeting, this podcast. Everyone's gonna, I love that I said meeting. This feels more like a business meeting than, that's why you guys are so successful. Everyone's gonna say yes right now on the treadmill, walking the dog in their car, on a plane, or however they're consuming this. Everyone's meetings are twice as long as they need to be if they're a winner and they know it.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  You got slam poetry snaps from me.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  And I just went there. I knew it subconsciously, then it became, you know, then years went on and it became conscious, and then I executed. And I've been in that, and I would say a lot of what has led to these, this, you know, I have this huge pride of how underrated as a businessman I am, because what I just dropped on you guys, literally nobody really knows, which is wild, because I'm Gary Vee and I'm talking all the time. And I think I got there on the 15-minute meeting and the family business vibes of my partners in crimes at the top. And by the way, it's not just one person. Like, every company requires three or four family members for it to really work the way it works for me, because you gotta have a backup and a backup and a backup, because there's so many variables that can go into these things. So, the 15-minute meeting has been gangster for me, game-changing for me. I do think I'm getting three days of

• 37:21Speaker 01

  work in one day, for sure. And also, I'm sorry, Sam, I want to say this. This is all happening at a time where I'm spending more, I mean, more time with my family than ever. You know, I have teenage kids, I have a wife, you know, I got remarried a year ago, like, I'm like, way, you know, I kind of went with the generic, but there's so much more slicing and dicing than I'm accustomed. My son is all in on AAU basketball, it's eating up all sorts of time. You know, my daughter is gonna go to college in a couple of years, so I'm milking unprecedented levels of time with her. So, like, it's just like, you can be so much more efficient if you have remarkable people around you and you're obsessed with not wasting time to fill the slot.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  What percentage of those meetings are you making decisions or being informed?

• 38:08Speaker 01

  I would say 30% on being informed, 70% on making decisions.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  That's insane. That's hard. The context switching, the, that's challenging.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  It's funny you said that. I've got a bunch of new film people, because all my people, luck, this feels incredible, go on to these incredible things after they film me for a little while, and get all these offers, or start their own things. And so, I constantly have a D-Rock coming through, you know, every year or two. The number one thing, Sam, every single new admin and every single new person that films me says, With like to a T is they do not understand the switching.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  That I and I talk about something that never even crossed my mind until the last five years when this got louder in my circle. I don't even I didn't even know that was a thing like I didn't know that people like if they're in this kind of meeting. That need to like decompress as that or whatever whatever people are doing to go to the next thing. I I think I it clearly DNA. I wonder if growing up in retail where you're just switching like everything's just always on. I don't know.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Well, I actually think that sometimes when I say context switching, we had a guy, our one of our friends came on the podcast and like as we were doing the sound check. He got a text from his daughter saying she didn't get into the college that she wanted to get into and it screwed him up. Like the the rest of the podcast was kind of shaky because he was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I can't stop thinking about my daughter just texting me this. I'm so sad for her.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Ah, now you're talking about another thing altogether. I'm going from, you know, you're you have an HR headache and now you're doing a financial planning for three years and now you're going.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  But I'm describing the same thing. Like if I get bad news, I'm like, how do I not bring it over?

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I'm building on it. I think one, it's it I've come to learn it's unique to do that. Two, now you're really talking about it. That has definitely been even that has definitely been something I'm that I got from my mother, which is being able to carry.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  In the moment adversity and negativity and still show up.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Like I think a lot about that as a leader, like I get a lot of bad news every day. One, I'm psycho and I'm in a HR of all my companies and now we have so many goddamn employees. Every day someone's dad is it's just like I've actually I've actually thought about shutting it off because I'm like, this is just almost getting depressing now because it's always like I'm like. I asked the team to let me know about those so I can send a text or flowers or I want to know. I want to know if somebody in my company is going through tough stuff. And then there's just when you're in client services, um, we went 16 months without losing a client at VaynerX. We're ripping hot, right? Uh, and then recently in the last 60 days, we've lost two. And you know, and they came boom boom and the second one was like hmm and the first one was not surprising, second was a little bit.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  And I was walking right into another thing and I was just like, it's funny you say that. I was like, man, I really got into that because I was pissed and like I wanted to fix it. But I knew I had to show up for this thing and this thing and this thing. And then not to mention all the things that happened in my personal life, similar to the college thing. There's always something, just like being able to like fucking eat shit and firefight is like a really strong emotional framework that is hard.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  What about notification fatigue? I tease Sean all the time. Sean, what's the joke? What's the stereotype if I want, if anyone wants to get a hold of you? Do you know what that stereotype is about you, Sean?

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Called Ben? I don't know.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  No, Sean will not reply. Getting in touch with Sean when you need to, sometimes it's a pain in the butt. With me, I tend to reply, but it wears me out. I get so exhausted because I feel like I want to like please these people.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Well, the worst part is I go to him and I say, hey, long time no talk. When I think of somebody and I see that actually they have been talking and I haven't, I'm like, fuck, okay. I shouldn't even send this. Maybe I should just.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  I'm a, I'm a mix of the two of you, but I have three full-time admins that people know that like people know my intent is to get back to them. Especially if they work for me, you know, friends, acquaintances is a little, people know that it's email, not text. If they really know me, if they don't know me, they may think that I'm just a bad dude, but like when you get, I made a humongous, and I mean catastrophic mistake during COVID. For some reason, instead of just being like a normal business person and doing it all in Slack, I decided my, because don't forget, I didn't have a computer. And I was doing everything through iMessage. So when I got my computer, I went desktop iMessage and I open and Sam, it was the worst mistake. I get.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Dude, I have that open right now. It sucks, but then I, I open it all the time because I gotta type something long and I'm like, it kills me. I have all these notifications.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I would say, I would say I'm in between you guys. I try to reply a lot. I use flights quite a bit to catch up. Um, and then if they can't get me, they get to the admins and the admins have a good sense of my reality.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  How do you decide what projects to go into? Um, because you know, for the six or whatever you said that are working, obviously maybe a couple didn't work. And then there's hundreds of opportunities you're saying no to. So what's the, what's the bar now? What's the box? How do you think about that?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Took my tummy.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Just got.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I want to do this and I want to do with this person.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Say that again, Gary. Say it, say it cute.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  I said tummy.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  I got tummy tickles.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  You know, it's just, there's so much serendipity to it. Uh, AD, you like that behind the scenes?

• 43:30Speaker 01

  You know, I, uh, yeah, just, I'm comfortable. I'm very comfortable. And this is a theme of this whole interview. And I thank you guys. You've done a good job extracting some different angles out of me. Um, I'm very comfortable dying on my sword, which is my intuition. I'm very comfortable.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Like, too comfortable.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Well, have you guys all ever came close to bankruptcy or, or not been able to make payroll?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, but, uh, make payroll. Resi was in trouble. I had to put personal money in that I didn't really have at the time. But nothing I've ever operated as the one A. I'm an immigrant, man. Like, I'm a real immigrant.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  So Vayner's cash flow or, or, um, or, uh, balance sheet has always been solid?

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've had to make payroll my entire life. You know, I got trained by a Soviet immigrant father who didn't even, who, let alone raising capital, forget it. Debt, forget it. Literally didn't have a credit line. And we were in the liquor business where you had to legally pay your bills on 30-day terms, where you went on COD to the whole industry and you couldn't get product. So I think I got trained so well. You know, always have money in the bank for a rainy day and 30-day terms legally bounded by the alcohol laws of America and no credit line. That by the time I went to my own journey full-time, it was in my subconscious of like, well, you always have that money. The end.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  You meet a lot of people. Who do you think is doing cool shit right now? What are, you know, either businesses that have kind of blown your mind? Maybe something that's taking off faster than you would have expected. Maybe something totally unrelated to what you do, but wow, you know, you, you get exposed to stuff that the average person doesn't. Where are you seeing a lot of heat right now?

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Uh, there's so many good areas. I mean, like, you know, um. I'll go, I'll, I'll answer a question that might bring, I'm trying to think about how to bring the most value to the audience. I'll go to places where people are betting on five years from now, not to create an exit five months from now. So that takes me to people that are really spending time on, on advanced AI.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Dating app, like, like really knowing where the stigma is today, but won't be in five years. Right? Like, creating an entire agency of virtual people. Right? Knowing right now it's a little weird, but let's survive three to five years and we're gonna have the CAA of virtual people. They're all gonna be the most famous virtual people and we fucking own it. You're in the IP business, not the representation business. That I like. I love everything, and this is my wheelhouse, but I love everyone who sells something to the consumer that realizes what live shopping is doing to e-commerce is what e-commerce did to real comp, like, real life. And so what I mean by that is like, in six to 10 years, you know, I think e-comm now is what, 25, 30% of the market?

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Like, in six to 10 years, live shopping will actually be 10 to 15% of all commerce, and that is scary big.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  Did you invest in what?

• 46:41Speaker 01

  You know, I think I, I, I did not. I did not. I obviously talk about one not all the time. I was not an investor.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  It was possible. You've been talking about live selling for years.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Sean, you'll love this. Anytime I've invested in something that I end up having to talk about a lot, I make a lot of content upfront that I'm an investor.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  So the way you know if I'm an investor in something is I'm saying it a lot early on, because I never, so, you know, I'm sure everyone thinks I did. And by the way, it, it ran through my table. Like, I don't, I wasn't actively investing at the time, which is the answer, Sean, to why I didn't. And... I know it crossed my desk, but I never took like a meaningful meeting with Grant, but I'm so happy for him. He's done a great job. I'm happy for the people that invested. My friend Chris, who's like in the music business, has a small fund. He invested in it like some.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  I think Sean, didn't they ask you to invest in the seed round? You forgot to reply to the email?

• 47:29Speaker 00

  No, no, no. That was a, that was a, uh, not a, finally one. I didn't shoot myself in the foot. Somebody else shot me in the foot. I met with Grant. I was like, I love this. My last business got acquired by Twitch. I'm amazing. Have you, have I told you how amazing I am? You gotta let me invest in rounded like just close, but a lot of times they'll let you in if they like you. They'll, they'll open it up or they'll, they'll, they'll squeeze you in.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Hot block, do you?

• 47:51Speaker 00

  He, he didn't, he, he was just like, let me see what I can do. And I didn't hunt to chase it down like 10 times more. And I just let it go. And that was, that's a big miss.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  I have a great email in my inbox from Joe at Bed, Air, uh, uh.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Airbend and breakfast?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Airbend, yeah. I'm trying to remember. Was it? Yeah. Airbend and breakfast.com. That's a good one.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you have any other ones that you haven't talked about? You know, you have Uber, obviously. That's a famous one.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  That's like Airbnb, but I never saw the email, so it doesn't hurt. Uh, Pinterest. I had a guy who was the CSO, the chief strategy officer at Campbell Soup, who was like 60 years old, said, Gary, you gotta look at this startup from Pennsylvania. That's how he said it. My friend's cousin knows the guy. I'm like, okay, that's like, I'm.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a guy.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  That's like getting a script for Hollywood in Chicago, you know? I didn't even like contemplate it. And then, and then, yeah, so that was close. And then, but I got in later through Scott Belsky. Uh, what a great investor he is, by the way. Um.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  He invested in, I think Uber and Pinterest in the same couple of weeks, both at a three and a half million dollar valuation. Both was like $25,000 checks when he had like 75. He told me he had like, he's like, I had, he's like, I had 75 grand in personal savings and I put 25 in each of those companies, which it's like eight or nine figures.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  And by the way, he's better than that even. Like he's got more wins and he's an operator. He's one of the best. Um. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, one of the reasons I'm starting my next thing is a lot of CPGs, Magic Spoon, a lot of good brands came to Vayner wanting us to be the people, but we didn't take on those kind of clients. Some things I invested in, some I didn't. I want to be better at that. The best one, my biggest win that I don't deserve is going to be Liquid Death. Mike worked at VaynerMedia the day before he started Liquid Death as a creative. And he sent me an email and said, "Hey, I'm leaving. Thank you for your time. I learned a lot here. By the way, I'm doing this thing. Would you like to invest?" He was a creative.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  I'm a cliche businessman that thinks creatives aren't business people, right? So I was like, you know, and I didn't know him well enough because we had a big company at that point.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Well, he's also saying that he's launching a water company called Liquid Death. Like, that is like a silly thing on paper.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  You'll appreciate this. The way I think about branding and marketing, it actually fits me more than it doesn't, for me, the way I like stuff. So that wasn't the crazy part. I was kind of agnostic about that part. I thought it could work, but I didn't think it was brilliant. And I definitely didn't think what a lot of people thought, which is it has no chance. Because on consumer brands, marketing is a stunning variable, especially if the product's a commodity, and water is a commodity, right? Like, water in plastic versus water in a can doesn't really change the variable. In fact, the can is the advantage. So I understood that part. It was more interesting why I invested. It goes back to this nice guy theme a little bit. I just wanted to invest because I want to support my employees on their own ventures. So I literally did it for that reason only. And, you know, that's going to be a fucking mod. It was first check-in.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Right. Do you ever, because, so you're significantly larger than both of us, but we sort of run in the same world. And there's a lot of scammers and shady people in this, like, content and business world, business content, whatever you want to call it. And when you, like, I've noticed that as we've gotten bigger, I try to be very careful about who I associate with.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Do you? Being a nice guy, do you struggle to like, say, "I don't want to be around this person." Like, they have a background of doing X, Y, and Z, or they don't, or they're, they're, they have political beliefs that I don't buy into and I don't want to be associated with them.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  I'll be honest, and you guys know this, I never talk politics. Political beliefs won't throw me off because I'm very empathetic that people can see the world. I mean, hate, or like ridiculousness on both the left and, extreme leftism and rightism as we know it today, sure. But like, political beliefs, no. But I don't think they do honorable work, sure. I've struggled with that. And, you know, also, you know, me being on the speaking circuit for so long, sometimes, you know, those kind of characters might be at the same place and they want a quick selfie and I don't want to, you know.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  That's what I'm talking about, yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And you know this, I, I, you know, you're smart, and so I know that question is grounded in, you know that I've avoided a lot of stuff. Um, and association, and that's the reason, yeah, of course, you never, I mean, there's people, the amount of people that will take a self, forget about people we know. There are people that are tier 19, people that are trying to do this, they have like four followers and they sell a $4,000 course, and they're criminals, right? They'll take a selfie with me at the airport and then make a post and say that like, "We had a meeting at the airport to strategize their fucking mastermind."

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Well, they did, when they asked you a question, I guess.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  It's really, you do have to be conscious of that, and you do need to worry about your NIL and your reputation, it is on my mind. And now with deep fakes and where this is all going, we're gonna go through a really mucky era where I really believe being the bigger person, being a nice person. You know what's really interesting, actually, I want to ask you guys a question. Has this hit your radar? This blows me away. We are fortunate, we've worked hard, we had talent, we're at where we're at. And what that allows us is to spend some time in private and public settings with other people that have won. The thing that completely rocked me, and when it was happening to me in my contemporaries, my era, was how many winners, and I mean winners,

• 53:23Speaker 01

  they've got the girl, they've got crazy money, they've got it, will actually still fucking spend most of their time shitting on other winners? Out of envy, or I don't even know what, and I'm like, this energy. Like, I'm like, what do you, like, I had to say this to a couple buddies not too long ago. I'm like, you guys are a bunch of fucking fourteen year old bitches. I'm like, what are you talking about? First, you should be happy for XYZ that they're crushing it. Yeah, he's not the nicest ever, but he's not a piece of shit. And by the way, everything you're shitting on, you guys do the same shit. What is this? Like, you're winning. Like, focus on winning. If you're so actually sad that they won even more than you, and you've got feelings about it,

• 54:07Speaker 01

  why don't you take these three hours of bitching about this person like fucking Yentas, and go fucking build something?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Well, Sean, what percentage of incredibly successful people do you know who you think are good, wonderful people with good attitudes?

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Uh, I think they're good, wonderful people with good attitudes, but they're definitely imbalanced in some core way, right? Like, they're not well-rounded, chill-ass, you know, people, right? Like, I think you're unlikely to be extreme winner without some version of an extreme personality.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 54:37Speaker 00

  And I think that's fair.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Hunter S. Thompson said, he said, "There's no reasonable people on the top of Mount Everest."

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. I had a person kind of point this out to me about why this happened. So I don't know if you've ever read, like, the René Girard, like, memetic theories. Like, Peter Thiel's really big on this, which is basically the core thing. You'll get this as a consumer guy, which is that we don't want what we want because we want it. We want it because other people want it.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  For whether it's your luxury bag that you're carrying, or...

• 55:09Speaker 01

  I believe in that. In fact, in fact, this is where all my gratitude comes from. Mother in DNA, I want it for my process, not because others want it. And it makes me feel simple, but it's very clear to me that most are the other way.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think most people have this sort of memetic drive, right? And this is why you see trends and fads catch on, because I want to go buy Neatos right now because all the other kids are buying Neatos. And I want to say this because other people say this. I want to wear Jordans because they wear Jordans, right? So that's like a normal thing. And there's another term in that philosophy that's called a memetic rival. And so I was on this plane ride, and I had this embarrassing moment where I was admitting to somebody, I was like, you know what? Like, I feel stupid even saying this. But God, it kind of drove me nuts the way this guy was saying that. I was kind of bitching about somebody. Because I rarely do, but I was doing it and I was like, honestly, I was like, guys, I feel stupid saying this, but like that shit bothered me. And blah, blah, blah. And he goes, he goes, you know what?

• 56:04Speaker 00

  He goes, that person's your memetic rival. I go, what's a memetic rival? Basically, it's like, it's almost like when you were talking about your, I don't know, the gummy brand and you were like, well, Groons did this, but we did this too. There's a hint of that, right?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Sure, sure.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  All companies.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  But it's so funny, but you noticed that I had to say smaller at the end of that sentence?

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  I don't know if you thought that. I get it. I was trying to paint a picture of like the pride, to your point, I have of doing a lot of things early. But, but, but I do think humility, if you have it with, to your point, competitiveness and alpha, if you can get, I always call it a bridge. If you can have these counter things and find balance in it, it can get really palpable and awesome. Right? If you're nice and humble, but you're also a fucking gangster and want to win and you can push hard. You find this weird middle of peace. That's kind of how I am trying. That's what, that's where I feel I am right now.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  Right. But, but everybody has these memetic rivals. Like, I don't know if you saw when Bezos was launching like his rocket and Elon's launching his rocket. And then they had this really passive aggressive thing. It's in Elon's biography. It's very funny. It's like, congratulations to Jeff on the first suborbital launch. Elon landed it and he's like, congratulations on the first successful landing from only a, you know, two megaton, whatever. It's like they added these little qualifiers. They started blocking each other because for each other, they're memetic rivals, right? And like, and it's a very strange thing. You think these are the most secure people on earth, but we all have a part of us that has that. It's how you learn to tame it and live with it.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  It's funny. I literally believe the reverse. I genuinely believe that the far majority of people get to the top from extreme insecurity.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Hey, let me ask you one more question and you could and you don't have to answer if you don't want to if it's too private, but with the six or seven businesses that you've named, they're badass. I'm looking at Deadline did an article about the production company VaynerWatt and like I'm looking at the people you hired or I guess they are your co-founders. They're freaking awesome. And I was looking at some of your partners and your other businesses. In order to get these stuff the ground, do you have to fund them personally or do you get backers for a lot of these things? Because it's like I'm reading this Deadline article and you have like a list of like five or six people and they're ballers and I'm like, those guys aren't cheap.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  VaynerWatt, Steve Ross, the owner of Dolphins, who's in VaynerMedia with me as well, he funded that. He wanted to be a part of that. On the rest, I funded.

• 58:36Speaker 04

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• 59:33Speaker 02

  That's awesome. Like I was looking at the, I didn't know about that you had a restaurant. And I was looking at that and it looked like a membership club and I looked at the interiors and I was like.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  It was a, it was a meaningful build out. Like, no, it's, it's been really cool. Like I, I'm in a really fun part of my career. I'm actually, I actually just used this platform, this incredible platform, so thank you for having me, of talking a little bit more, because I actually want to start talking a little bit more about me, the juggler. Mainly, yes, to your point earlier, I am proud of what I'm doing and I, you know, no one really knows, which is wild. And I'm proud of that too, right? That goes to the humility, but now I'm maybe ready for being like, "Hey guys, by the way, I'm not a motivational speaker."

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  I might actually be a weirdly good operator at scale.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Well, Sean, Google Fly Fish Club Manhattan, or just Fly Fish Club.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  And please come when you guys are in New York, you'll be blown away.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  I live here now, Gary, I live on the Upper West Side.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  So, like ASAP, email me after this, like ASAP, ASAP. I want you to see it. It's, it's a three-story restaurant with a private open potty room, like it's real. But more importantly, because you know this, it could also be going out of business tomorrow. Like, you could, you know, it, meaning, it's a, like, the business is extremely viable. The, in fact, Sam, now that you're here, Upper West Side, if you just go over to GW, which I know is counterintuitive, the restaurant we opened in Bergen County, New Jersey, called Capon's Chop House, we now know, we're about to open another one in Westchester, we're about to open 50 of those, oh, in high net worth neighborhoods of the biggest cities in the world. We got the model, we got it. And, and don't forget, this is the brilliance of what I think, when, when it's all written,

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  the VaynerX marketing machine impacts all these businesses, right?

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  What, what's the model? It says it's a membership.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  The model is, the model is open up the new version of Ruth's Chris, and, like, the best steakhouse that has the most New York City vibes, just not in New York City, and everyone in bridges and tunnels of the seven most important places on earth that have high net worth individuals are gonna sell the fucking shit out of these places. It's not a new invented model.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  But it's a member, you have to remember?

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  No, Capon's is just, Capon's is just a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse 2.0, with almost like an STK, BLT, uh, uh, you know...

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, just one of those, uh, cats, cats. You know, whatever you want to call it, but we have a very strong, what we do to Eugene's credit, to Grutman's credit, to Noah's credit, those places have more cool, right? There's that nightlife element. We're going 20% less on that and 20% more on food. We think the secret to retention LTV is just execute a food program that is so undeniable. And a little bit of that sizzle, but your steak's gotta be right, right, right?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Dude, you did, you've gotten.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  Our strategy is killer chicken parm. It's like, yes, actually, that's kind of what people want.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  You've gotten into this business genius. He decided to start an agency and a restaurant. The two best businesses on earth.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Literally, literally the two worst. And again, this is a great way to end it up, which is like, I'm playing for what makes me feel good, not just maximizing the dollars. And then to your point, because that's absolutely right and really kind of funny. And the liquor store was even worse than two of them.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  And then on the other side, I'm going to turn V Friends into Pokemon and it's going to be one of the most valuable intellectual properties in the world in 20 years, which in an AI world will have an extraordinary amount of value and will be the best kind of business someone can build.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Well, we appreciate you, man. You're the shit. We love hanging out with you. God bless you, brother.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Hey, well, wish you well.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  All right. That's it. That's the pod.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of the show.

• 1:03:30Speaker 05

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