The Most Underrated Social Media Platform You Need to Start Posting On

In this episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience, I sit down with Snap in New York for a talk with a room full of performance marketers and agency folks. I talk about why social media is dead and this is the era of interest media, and why our industry is shockingly broken between performance and brand. I get into why Snap Spotlight is the biggest underpriced attention nobody's talking about, and why the QVC-ification of every social network aka live shopping is the biggest trend of the next decade. You'll learn about:• The Death Of Social Media and Rise Of Interest Media• Organic Views is an Important Metric• Snap Spotlight is Underpriced Attention• Live Shopping For The Next Decade

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Podcast Nation, what's good? It's Gary. One thing you're gonna see for me a lot more is original content for the podcast, which I'm sure everyone's like yay. In fact, leave a review and some stars for that if you have it. Anyway, this is a talk I gave this week at Snapchat at an offsite with marketers. I think anybody who's got a personal brand, anybody who's got a small business, definitely a CPG brand, a fashion brand, a consumer brand, pay very close attention to what I talk about here on. I get into very real detail about interest media versus social media, the interest graph, how the algorithms are working, how to get more out of your performance, marketing, if you're spending on CAC and ROAS and LTV, some bigger kind of philosophical consumer

• 0:45Speaker 00

  behavior points, and really a recap of some historical things I've done in context and what it means for you and how you can make more money, get more followers, get more happiness, get more joy. And most of all, talking about an underpriced attention place, which is Snapchat Spotlight. If you go to your Snapchat right now, bottom of the app, you'll see Spotlight. I mean, the TikTok and Instagram feed of Snapchat is one of the great opportunities for a lot of you to break out and build a bigger brand, and I recommend it.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  I'm so excited that you're here. So, a small story. My first product marketing role, we were trying to figure out how to encourage advertisers to make better creative for Facebook back in the day, and Vayner was one of the companies that we studied because of everything that you guys were doing back then to help with creative asset development and improving performance. So, this is a huge fan girl moment for me, so I'm very excited. But we're very lucky to be joined by Gary today. Gary is, of course, the founder and CEO of VaynerX and VaynerMedia, but doesn't really need any introduction. So, thank you for being here today.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Should we jump right in?

• 1:56Speaker 00

  I'm ready.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  All right. So, I wanted to start with your statement about social media being dead and this being the era of interest media. So, I was hoping that you could tell the audience, and we sort of talked about this a little bit, we've got a lot of performance marketers and agency folks in the audience. Tell everyone what you meant by that, and then maybe share a little bit about what you think it means for this room.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I was there when the term was coined, and it really referred to the fact that, you know, you would follow and people would follow you based on your social graph, the people you knew, the people you went to high school with, college, coworkers. This was your social network. And the point I was trying to make with that content recently, and have been talking about this for about three or four years really, was really what first fascinated me about Tumblr. I was a very early investor in Tumblr back in 2007. And what I saw TikTok was doing in 2017, even musically, you know, there's some funny

• 3:01Speaker 00

  content about me being very scared to talk about musically because it was primarily 14-year-old girls on the platform, and I was like, oh shit, I think this is gonna work, but can I talk about it? Was, oh, this is no longer getting content from who you follow, this is about getting content of stuff you're interested in. And so, I find it unusual that the majority of the people in this room, given what you do for a living and just kind of looking at all of you, that anyone is confused that over the last five years, more and more of the behavior on social networks is not predicated on you getting every post from the people you follow, but now it is clearly around the content and the subject matters that you're currently into.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  Like, even the speed in which the content is moving, probably for a lot of people here at some point this summer, you might have been getting a little bit more soccer content than you're accustomed to, that's probably faded away. I think that is a profound shift. I think for people in the context of this, that think about performance, often wildly overthink about math and underthink about art. And I think the art of the way the algos and the way that consumption and attention is working is far more based, not only on your general interests, you know, my interests are the New York Jets and wine and collectibles, but I am stunned by the speed at which across

• 4:30Speaker 00

  all social networks, if there's something I'm just like fixated on for about five minutes, like, is Harry gonna get married? That content really populates and has a time cycle, and it's fascinating for me to also watch, and I'm not using myself as a focus group of one. What's so great about Vayner is we have such a broad view of the world. I think all of you know this. Some of those niches become a one-week thing where you see running content for a while and it goes away, and others, those niches become pillars of who you are and what you're interested in. That dynamic needs to be understood dramatically more, and I think what it means for everyone here is the difference of if you understand it and understand what to do with it from

• 5:11Speaker 00

  a branding and a performance standpoint versus not understanding it, I think it changes your CAC and your ROAS and your outcomes and your career and everything that has to do with your professional life.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Say more about that. I mean, say more about kind of the impact on the metrics I know a lot of people in this room care deeply about, right, on CAC, on ROAS, like, and specifically, one of the things that struck me when I was listening to some of your, you know, your points on this is really around kind of relevance and how that relates to what marketers are trying to accomplish. Like, maybe tell us a little bit more about the relevance side of it and then the impact on outcomes and sort of how folks should be thinking about that.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  I think our industry is shockingly broken up between performance and brand, and I think it's hurting a lot of the businesses in this room and the industry. I think when you really focus on attention and relevance, it kind of sits almost like middle funnel, and then when you understand it, you execute in it. I believe currently in an organic social network environment, you know how passionate I am, that Spotlight is not talked enough about and understood enough, and it's a huge opportunity, that when you really understand what organic social media content is, that it becomes a starting point in the middle as a mid-funnel play, and that it wildly affects your lower funnel and upper funnel.

• 6:31Speaker 00

  For the lower funnel, we continue, as Vayner and I as Gary, when I'm on a board or an investor, continue to shock the most mathematically sound individuals in this room by showing them that it's very cute that you're A to triple Z testing with content with AI and OpenClaw and Nano and all this, but if you actually go organic first and you actually understand what's getting views organically, not hidden behind media to disguise that it was garbage creative, and understand what that means and how you then post-produce it for a lower funnel performance, it outperforms the best performance creative that the team guessed on.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  No matter how good you are and how many variations you do, the algorithms that are based on interest that these platforms are building are better than you. And then that creative becomes a starting point, not only for performance, but it also becomes the brief or the consumer insight to do something that you might view as more upper funnel, AKA taking that creative and expanding on it on a higher fidelity execution, whether that's the creative you put on outdoor media, or whether that's the theme of an in-person experiential event, or if that becomes the insight or the creative pillar to doing a higher fidelity premium video for brand purposes that you may deploy in

• 7:56Speaker 00

  a YouTube or Amazon Prime and/or in social feeds themselves, AKA a $40,000 production for an organic video only after the fact that it's been validated by organic views achieved because of relevance across many platforms. That is not a science that I think enough people are playing.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  What metrics are you looking at? Like, what gives you the confidence, okay, this is the one that's taken off, this is the one to maybe put lower funnel spend behind? Like, how are you thinking about like the core metrics to look at? And what recommendations are you giving to your clients?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  The only metric I give a fuck about is organic views achieved.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  And then how do you play that through to their lower funnel performance?

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Because it always does well. If, you know, what will make sense to all of you, and I don't, you know, I'm watching the body language of the room, I don't know where everyone's on their journey, but when creative gets a million views, 150,000 views when you normally get 80 or 400 or 4,000, whether you're B to B or B to C, when that creative gets a half a million views, there's a reason. It was relevant. It may not be relevant in a way that you wanted it to. It may feel like it was off-brand and shit, this is silly and we're supposed to be serious, but that's you disrespecting people giving a fuck about it. And no one buys shit until they give a fuck about something.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  And so, what's crazy about this is this is the purest form of relevance to consideration to conversion that we've ever seen. The greatest measurement issue of our time was to measure brand, right, to measure creative. And now the social networks from Snap to Shorts to Facebook Classic to Instagram to TikTok to LinkedIn to Twitter X have done it for free as a byproduct of the platform they've built because their interests are aligned with ours, which is they want to keep people on their platforms. Thus, people seeing content that's actually relevant to them is more likely to keep them on the platform than you seeing a bunch of shit that you don't care about because your

• 10:01Speaker 00

  cousin posted about something you don't care about. That is why we went from social to interest. So, your and your seven competitors' objective of keeping people on platform aligned with us who are trying to sell shit on the thing that no one has been able to figure out how to do for 100 years because television and print and radio and billboards and direct mails did not have the technology stack in place to be able to even achieve that. The fact that pure creative testing is now a free byproduct of doing proper organic social media content production is fucking insane.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  Así que lo que pasa es que cuando haces eso, por naturaleza sabes que ese pedazo de contenido orgánico es un monstruo. Cuando empiezas a ser bueno en entender cómo tomarlo hacia el fondo inferior, lo que supongo que en base al contexto de esta conferencia es algo que mucha gente aquí está pensando. Cuando sabes cómo tomar a una mamá y una hija caminando por la calle y comiendo una lollipop y eso hizo que la gente llorara y tú vendes lollipops, cuando entiendes cómo tomar eso y agregar alguna forma de llamada a la acción, o envío gratis cuando compras un paquete de la mierda de lollipop, o lo que sea que estés a punto de hacer, cuando sabes cómo subentramente interrumpir el ADN de la performance en un pedazo de creatividad que tenía uno en marca y luego empezar a ejecutar anuncios contra él, verás cómo supera lo que acaba de inventar

• 11:23Speaker 00

  al azar para probar en un marco ABCD triple Z. Hey, todo el mundo, espero que estén disfrutando el podcast ahora mismo. Asegúrate de seguir el podcast, es por eso que me interrumpo. Continuemos en este show, pero sígueme en el podcast. Me hará feliz a mi madre.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  ¿Cómo lo piensas?

• 11:40Speaker 00

  ¿Te gusta eso? ¿Verdad? Estoy muy orgulloso de ti de que puedas adivinar 7.000 variantes diferentes de ideas creativas que has sacado de tu culo.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  Pero ¿por qué no sacar esas cosas de tu culo en un formato de marca a estas plataformas donde obtendrás negocio por accidente, pero obtendrás lo que realmente estás tratando de obtener, que es la validación de que es interesante sin gastar los dólares de los medios de comunicación para hacer eso? El marco de test de A/B de micromedios de la gran era de Meta de 2015 a 2017 que construyó los zapatos Bonobo es terminado.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Y así es. Gracias por invitarme.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  El producto que estaba trabajando en Backface cuando estaba estudiando todo lo que estabas haciendo era un producto de test creativo, que fue un fracaso épico por muchas de las razones que estás hablando.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Sí.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  La realidad fue que en realidad el mejor test que podrías aconsejar a un cliente fue ponlo en el desierto y ve lo que sucederá, ¿verdad? Y ve cómo, dónde van las cosas desde ahí. Eso es lo que realmente funciona.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Sí, toda mi carrera ha sido el piedra de la red de las redes sociales mientras las plataformas continúan ir a VaynerMedia y tratan de decirnos de cosas que nos disagreeemos adamante.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Sí, sí. ¿Qué tal el papel de la AI?

• 12:51Speaker 00

  ¿Verdad, Peter? El papel de la AI es que va a hacer mejor todo esto.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  ¿Crees que, cuánto te confiarías en la AI?

• 12:58Speaker 00

  Un montón.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Que produzcas los activos creativos que lanzas en el desierto.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Una cantidad extraordinaria.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  ¿Lo estás haciendo ahora?

• 13:03Speaker 00

  Por supuesto.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Dime más.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Es mierda de AI. Como que entiendo que hay cosas que todos nos preocupamos por como ser humanos y deberíamos. No tengo interés en luchar contra un robot en la calle.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Pero si estamos hablando de esta pequeña cosa que estamos haciendo aquí, que es, estamos tratando de hacer marketing, ¿en qué planeta no crees que la AI te va a ayudar a ser mejor? Eso sería como decir que la Internet no te va a ayudar a ser mejor, o un computador no te va a ayudar a ser mejor, o un escritor de tipo, o la electricidad. Esta es la historia de la historia de la gente. Grandes tecnologías vienen que cambian el paradigma entero y la gente sea super emocionada o super asustada dependiendo del temperamento actual del clima político esta vez. Te lo prometo, si la AI saliera en 2009 o durante los años de Clinton, lo adoraríamos. Había un temperamento diferente. Hay mucho cinismo, preocupación, miedo. Y cuando el combo principal cuando llega a la escena es,

• 14:03Speaker 00

  "Chicos, gran noticia, la AI está aquí, es masiva", "Están todos a punto de ser despidos". Es muy difícil para nosotros ser como "Sí".

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Correcto, sí.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Pero, pero en una forma mucho más verdadera, sin estallar demasiado a la izquierda o demasiado a la derecha, esta es una tecnología profundamente loca que supongo que todos aquí han flirtado con de diferentes maneras. Tal vez tus puntos de vista políticos, o emocionales, ideológicos, o visiones delirantes te han permitido que no vayas muy lejos. Pero si no lo has hecho, como que vas a hacerlo. ¿Qué crees que va a pasar en tu vida? ¿La AI va a desaparecer? Y así, sí, por supuesto que la estamos usando tremendamente. Y como para mí, argumentaría que, ya sabes, ha sido realmente un viaje interesante para mí como marketer, porque una de las razones por las que Vayner hizo bien a la retrospectiva ahora mirando atrás fue cuando construí la biblioteca de vino, hice todo.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Hice el uso de medios de comunicación, hice la estrategia, hice el creativo. De hecho, durante los primeros cinco años de VaynerMedia no teníamos ni departamentos. Pensé que todos los marketers hacían todo. Literalmente pensé que deberías ser el personaje de medios de comunicación, y el estratega, y el creativo, y el productor. Y así, fui muy afortunado, me entrené en todo. Y al final del día, como lo que realmente me di cuenta es que si la push llegaba a la tirada y fui a la escuela de anuncios y entré en la industria, probablemente sería un estratega, pero no el estratega de un estratega de marca que va a escribir un breve. Te diré a todos, lo que hago por vida es solo ver lo que los humanos hacen a escala hiper. Y es por eso que la sociedad es tan intoxicante cuando llegó en 2006 y 2007.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Antes solía ir a blogs. Hey, niños, solía tener que ir a blogs y foros y leer comentarios en WordPress para averiguar lo que el mundo pensaba. Luego llegó Twitter, y como esto, quiero decir, la gente pensó que Twitter era el... Investí en Twitter en 2006 o 2007 y como que todo el mundo me hizo ruido por investir en él porque todo el mundo es como, así que déjame hacer esto claro. Sé que esto puede ser difícil si eres menor de 25 en aquí, pero esto fue literalmente la conversación. Están como, así que espera, has invertido en esta empresa. No tenía dinero y yo como aposté a la tierra en esto. Estaban como, has invertido en una empresa donde la gente va a ir a su teléfono y dice a la gente que están caminando el perro, están comiendo una pizza, están viendo un show. Y literalmente todos los que conocía fueron como, eso es la mierda más estúpida que he oído.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  ¿Quién podría querer escuchar eso? Y mi respuesta en ese momento fue a todos. Lo que conocía fue, ¿por qué tenemos tráfico en las carreteras cuando alguien tuvo un accidente en el lado de la carretera y no tiene nada que ver con ti? Somos increíblemente, increíblemente orientado. Estamos super, como fascinados por la gente de buenas y malas maneras. Y mi creencia era que todo el mundo iba a preocuparse de que estás yendo a Ibiza, o compraste esta chaqueta, o estás viendo este show. Y terminó probablemente siendo más verdadero de lo que jamás podía haber imaginado. Pero realmente pensé que iba a salir así. Tengo los billetes de video. Y, y así que aquí estamos.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Sí, y aquí estamos. Bueno, ok, hemos hablado un poco de otras plataformas. Hablemos de Snapchat.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Por favor.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Porque has hablado mucho de Snapchat. Así que háblanos un poco sobre, tú prefieres Snapchat como una oportunidad underutilizada. Hemos hablado de Spotlight, como comparte más sobre lo que ves como la gran oportunidad en Snapchat y dónde crees que tal vez los marketers están equivocados, o están entendiendo mal y lo que deberían estar haciendo diferente.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  Quiero decir, creo que los marketers escuchan dos cosas. El mercado o la plataforma. Sabes, mi pasión es para una de mis personas favoritas, aunque sean empresarios, tu CEO, ser más fuerte sobre su convicción sobre lo que significa para los marketers. Sabes, estoy muy emocionado como todos acerca de AR y VR y estoy super emocionado por las gafas y puedes ser una empresa de gafas si quieres serlo. Y simplemente creo que esta plataforma, la razón por la que dije sí a esto en un día muy ocupado para mí es realmente estoy en medio de aquí para todos porque ya te di lo que puedo dar. Como lo que te acabo de decir es la cosa, hazlo.

• 18:17Speaker 00

  Pero para ti, pero para todos ustedes en el equipo Snap, como sabes, estoy seguro de que la razón por la que algunas personas están aquí es que este es su pequeño arma secreta. Este es un canal que hace buen desempeño para ellos que saben que mucha gente no está hablando.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Sí.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  ¿Verdad? Así que hay esa parte. Sé que es verdad. Sé mucho de, ya sabes, la tecnología profunda y AR y Avatar y todo eso. Sé que todo eso es verdad. Tú sabes dónde estoy. Creo que Spotlight es la oportunidad más subestimada para la gente debido a lo que acabo de decirte. Estoy obsesionado con la creatividad social orgánica como punto de partida para todo el marketing. Desde el Super Bowl hasta tu campaña, hasta todos tus desempeños. Es el punto de partida. Y cualquier lugar donde pueda obtener atención subestimada es bueno para mí. Y así que generalmente, y sé, supongo que en base a lo que haces por vida y cuánto contenido publico, probablemente esté en tu radar

• 19:16Speaker 00

  que tengo un historial sólido de llegar a las plataformas temprano. Temprano es una de las formas de extraer atención subestimada. Si hay mucha gente que está prestando atención y tú eres el único o uno de los pocos, o uno de solo una docena que está marketing fuertemente, vas a reunir más. Está comprando propiedad de playa en Malibu antes que alguien entienda que es Malibu. ¿Verdad? Obviamente, quien pague, ya sabes, nueve bloques de la playa y pagó más que tú, no lo hizo tan bien como tú. Ese es uno de los modos en que lo hago bien. El otro modo en que lo hago bien es esta situación exacta. Cuando las plataformas no se han posicionado bien lo suficiente, en mi opinión, para dejar a la gente saber cuán profundo es. Considero a Spotlight de igualdad a Instagram y TikTok.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  No sé de nadie que habla de ello a mi lado. Creo que esa es la mayor oportunidad de marketing.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Una de las cosas que pasamos mucho tiempo hablando cuando hablamos de Spotlight fue la combinación de Spotlight más chat, o Spotlight más otras partes de la app.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Bueno, el chat es lo que es tu mierda, ese chat es tu mierda. ¿Verdad? Como que todos aquí saben porque, de nuevo, mirando a la multitud, o either vivieron porque ese es su grupo de edad, o tienen hermanos o nietas o nietos. El chat es el mierda de la que tienes. Si no tuviera chat, nadie estaría aquí. Te habrías perdido, es lo que quiero decir. Y así, chat.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Muy simple.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  Muy simple, chat es definitivamente la luna y todo lo demás es flotando alrededor. Mi punto de vista es que los tienes todos con chat. Solo hazlos entender que Spotlight existe a un nivel más alto. El potencial de Spotlight es profundo.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Sí.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  Como secretamente, a veces cuando duermo, soy como, ¿debería vender todos los 13 de mis empresas y convertirme en jefe de Spotlight?

• 21:06Speaker 00

  That's how much I like it. And I think people should look at it. And I'm sure some of you, like, again, given the context of this, I don't believe a lot of people who are giving a shit about it. And I think that's the biggest opportunity in the room. Especially if you believe the first half of my talk, which is organic social is the starting point. Because then if it does, this will make sense, I'm sure to all of you. If it does well organically and snap, it's gonna outperform it probably in performance, even if you took it out of Spotlight and put it on Instagram. Like, when I do cross-pollination of platform, the creative does not act exactly the same on every platform, as you all know. So, winning within it organically on Spotlight, and then putting into performance in Snap, versus winning organically on Shorts, and then bringing that into performance in Snap,

• 21:51Speaker 00

  is gonna have an interesting, different variable.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  We're talking a lot today about, like, the new performance playbook, right? And so I wanna hear, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Like, what would your performance playbook look like on Snapchat, do you think? Like, if you think about the different services, the different experiences, like, if you were coming in cold, which you're obviously not, because you're you. Uh, but what would your, how would you think about, like, the performance playbook on Snap? What do you think would be the winning formula?

• 22:17Speaker 03

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• 22:44Speaker 00

  To win organically on Spotlight, and post-produce it with performance elements that have the most native elements of what's working on Snap. Right? So whether it's the classic overlay of the wording on that bar, whether it's current filters that are over-indexing, you know, having a remarkable pulse of what's happening within the environment of Snap overall, both in Spotlight, but also in the filter ecosystem, or the AR ecosystem, or in the news, or that whole bottom nav of the app. Like, everything that's happening, how do I factor that into what just did well in organic overlay? And how do I really, because this will make sense to you.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  I natively have to take this, let's go back to the grandma and the granddaughter, and the lollipop. I have to now add some elements to that that just did well, and make it performance. Inherently, I could fuck that up.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Right? Like, if I'm too aggressive with the call-out on the, like, you've got, you know, it's art.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Understanding the current slang of the moment within Snap of what's working, to add the element of how I'm gonna communicate free shipping, or buy three, get one free, or whatever I'm doing, if you do that with proper slang, AKA, what font am I using? What filter am I using? Right? Um, is incredibly important. And, uh, that's how I would do it.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, we've got like, three minutes left. You sort of just mentioned one of the big things that you're good at is seeing things early that might take off. What's one of the biggest things that you, what's your big kind of next prediction that you feel like people aren't paying enough attention to you right now?

• 24:28Speaker 00

  Live social shopping.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Say, tell us more about that.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  The QVC effect, uh, the QVC-ification of every social network is an inevitable outcome of the next decade.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  And, um, what's happening on Whatnot and TikTok and eBay Live right now on GMV, which is gross merchandise value, if you have not dug into, is massive. I like, literally cannot wait for the second that, I just need you to get pumped about Spotlight, before you guys even put, before you even put in live shopping elements into Spotlight, but I think it's gonna be profound. It actually, you know, to Snap's credit, there's some real long, I mean, I had conversations with Sean Mills a decade ago of doing live shopping stuff with Snap.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  As an overarching thing, especially for performance marketers, which I think, I assume you guys wanna sell things. It is a category you need to pay attention to. Inherently, this industry, marketing, Fortune 5000 marketing, is incredibly bad at patience and investment. This is gonna be a massive channel. I'm sure a lot of you know it to be true, if you're paying attention. We're talking about tens of billions of dollars in gross merchandise value being sold on the QVC part, not the affiliate part. And so, um, it's definitely the biggest trend that I'm paying attention to.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  And then the, I'm sorry, and then the rise of the live shopping influencer. Right? There's so many, even people in this room who are potentially destined, so many people are not destined to be Alex Earl, or Logan Paul, or be like, you're not a content creator influencer, as we all know it today. But because you have salesmanship, you actually are very destined to be a leading live shopping celebrity. And I actually think those people will end up being incredibly well-paid. I don't know if you guys know about sales, but those fuckers make money.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  And so I think, uh, I, you know, I'm excited for some, even people in this room who have a hard pivot, if this inspires them in their career. I think some people are really about to step in some good shit, and be like, really substantial live shopping influencers, and have a very, very fruitful career.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's, I mean, a lot of what we've talked about, and we've gotta wrap up, like, I think sets up for some interesting stuff to come for all of you, right? Thinking about how to kind of be present across, like, the Snapchat experience, both within Spotlight, within the chat, within all of the different services, to kind of make that connection work.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  What are you offering to them for the, how do I get into the chat? I wanna penetrate everyone's chat.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  So I think the biggest thing that everyone's gonna hear about today, and like, sneak peek, we're gonna be talking a lot about actually dynamic product ads being in the chat today. So ads in chat exist, there's a great opportunity to be there. The most performant, interestingly, in chat, is when you use a creator. So when the chat cell itself comes from a creator, and it's sponsored by the brand, that does twice as well.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  No shit.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Obviously. This is always your point about, like, common sense over spreadsheet.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Yes, like, if you're like, wait, Dolbrich's sending me a message? Oh damn, he wants me to buy Twizzlers.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then you opened it, you looked at it. Because he got you to look at it.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  For sure, and that's step one. And then the question becomes, are brands smart enough to create copy? And, and creative that takes us from, oh, we're excited, to, oh, we're disappointed, to then, oh, I'll consider it.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  And, well, and like, one of the big things that, that helps there, that we've seen throughout the years, like, offers. Which, again, no shit, right? But it's like, when you open it, and there's something that captures you, that makes you think, oh, there's something in it for me, like, something different, that's also really exciting. So, I think like,

• 28:09Speaker 00

  I mean, it's obviously the Holy Grail. You know, it's obviously something I'm sure debated at HQ very aggressively, because it is your golden goose.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  So putting marketing in there, normally marketing that, I think we can all agree, that people don't necessarily want, in that golden place, is a fine line. But FMS marketing is, is working extremely well. And this is clearly an incredible channel to figure out how to penetrate. Like, that definitely has my personal attention of like, oh, I need to figure that out.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  But it is, again, and I, I hope you got this from what I talked about, our industry, all of you, will do dramatically better if you understand the creative, the art, is the variable of success. The math is the commodity. And it's about to get way more commoditized. Because all that brilliance you have, like, AI's coming for your brilliance. The math is the commodity. The creative, the gray, is incredibly fruitful in this next half-decade. And so, like, even that part, Snap has now allowed us to get into the Holy Grail room. But now the question becomes, what do you do with that? What is the sentence?

• 29:25Speaker 00

  Like, the collaboration with, with the, the influencer is gonna have higher returns, but every day it's gonna diminish once the end user on Snap starts to understand influencer being used for this. So our cynicism as consumers will grow over time of like, oh damn, Charlie DiMillo's not texting me to say what's up. You know, um, and then when that happens, when that happens, open rates are gonna go down. But even if they're up, the only way you're gonna sell something is based on the creative. That sentence, the creative is the variable of success in our industry.

• 30:04Speaker 00

  The biggest other opportunity is understanding where the attention is that's underpriced, and is actually consumed, not potentially consumed. That, that, that part is gonna get commoditized more and more.

• 30:17Speaker 00

  The art will continue to rise, even with AI's incredible advancements, it will continue to rise. And the humanity, and the access, and the real-life stuff like we're doing here, is actually gonna explode. And understanding how to factor that in to what I'm talking about will be a fruitful venture for all of you.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Secret sauce. All right, we gotta let you go.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Hey everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes, they're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and, uh, thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.