How to Grow a Your Brand on Social Media in 2027

In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, I sit down with the Nude Project founders to talk about growing a fashion brand without letting the fear of overexposure hold you back. I share my perspective on live shopping, personal branding, and hiring the right people as your business expands. I also discuss why building a bigger company is a choice, not the definition of a happy life. You'll learn about: Brand Visibility And Overexposure Live Shopping And Discoverability Personal Branding Without The Pressure Hiring For Your Next Stage Defining Success On Your Terms

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Social media is free. The distribution, of course you could spend ads, but you don't have to. Alex Earl spent nothing. Mr. Beast spent nothing. Zero. I have a side smile when people worry about overexposure. It's unachievable. Overexposure is unachievable. There's too much fragmentation. If you went live right now on TikTok on New Project and started to show the showroom, many people who have never heard of this brand would see it. If you went live on Instagram, only people that know this brand would see it. Do you understand how profound that is? Today, you guys are not thinking about live shopping because you think it's beneath you. Because you're bougie now.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  And that is an opportunity. You two men are not the inventors of to be a proper fashion brand. You need to build some level of non-accessibility. You two are not the inventors. You are the followers. My question to you is, given how the world works, can you be the inventors of achieving both?

• 0:52Speaker 01

  This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  All right.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Gary.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  This is a special day. Not only because we're with you, which of course, but we haven't filmed the podcast realistically in like over a year and a half. Okay, we were like one of the biggest podcasts in Spain and Latin America.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  It just got to a point where we weren't having as much fun anymore. So we're like, we don't need to force anything in life. We wouldn't do things that we enjoy.

• 1:19Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  And the day we chose to bring it back is today because we're coming to New York.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  New York is the city where dreams are built.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Where all the people we've been following in the culture are.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  And you know, you're one of the people that have inspired this business and us to have a vision of what entrepreneurship could be and to what level we could take it. So to just get an hour and a half today to be able to chat. Gary's the like 15-minute man. You don't get more than 10, 15 minutes of Gary, man. So we have a fucking hour to chat today to talk about things. It's exciting. It's exciting and we're gonna just before we get into the...

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Before we start talking about dreams, I have something to show to Gary, actually.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  I don't know if you remember, but I wanted to bring it back.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  I remember. I remember it very well, brother.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  What does it say? What does it say? It's a DM from?

• 2:13Speaker 03

  From 2022, maybe?

• 2:15Speaker 02

  2022.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  From August 2022. And what about the mention in 2018? In 2018? Yeah. I mean, it's just like, you know, you know, what's so incredible is

• 2:29Speaker 00

  watching this journey from afar with you guys. Nick's obviously been along the way as well. You know, for, you know, we're just, we talk about you so much. This is like sitting in this gorgeous, I mean, you guys really did a nice job. This gorgeous New York City store that you're about to open. It's, um, it's been a lot of fun. I like, you know, my career has been seeing around corners. I've had a good career in being early on things, whether it was, you know, startups or people or projects like this one.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  And it's just, um, I'm not surprised. Like from the first time you guys sat in my office to this moment and everything in between. I'm happy for you and you guys have earned it.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Okay, before we get into, we're gonna tap in. I really want to use this as a personal mentoring situation.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  You normally do that when we're together. So in whatever format, whether it's podcast, recorded, not recorded, you're very smart on extracting as much as possible, which I'm humbled by because I'm flattered by your interest in my insights or thoughts about things. Um, so I'm happy to do it.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Before we do that, I want to do something for the 16-year-old Bruno and Alex, which

• 3:47Speaker 00

  You were just a few minutes ago.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Would be freaking the fuck out.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  If they were right here. And the question is, okay, we're in 2026.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  It's about to be 2027.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  We have, you have 1,000 euros tomorrow to your bank account. You're starting up. You don't have this Gary Vee.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Personality. What do you do? What business do you start? What type of brand? What platforms are you on? Like, this is for the kids.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  I would make content.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  I would spend every minute, I wouldn't, the dollars don't scare me at all because it takes no dollars. I would spend every ounce of time learning AI. The internet created unlimited opportunity. Let there be no confusion, boys. Had there been no internet, you would be nowhere close to where you are professionally today. Nowhere.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  I would have even met Bruno.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, we would have even met. Okay, and?

• 4:42Speaker 00

  And then with that, you have to be self-aware. Everybody behind the camera here are different. What do you deploy it against? 16-year-old me would have made something to sell because I'm a businessman. Right? Whether I made an app or whether I bought things and did live shopping, you know, I'm very passionate about live shopping. I think, I think actually whichever cool brand like you or whichever high-end fashion brand like LV Major Chanel has the humility to look at live shopping for what it is versus looking at it as hurting the brand.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  And that's what social media was. You guys, your opportunity, why you were able to build this was because the leaders in fashion 20 years ago didn't understand what social was. They thought it hurt their brand. Today, you guys are not thinking about live shopping because you think it's beneath you. Because you're bougie now.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  And, uh, and that is an opportunity. And so I would, I would with a thousand bucks, probably buy a thousand dollars worth of stuff and probably sell it on live shopping because then I'd have $3,000 worth of money.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Live shopping is TikTok when you say live shopping, yeah?

• 5:54Speaker 00

  It is TikTok. It's whatnot is a standalone app that's starting to gain real momentum. But I think within the next 36 months, you will see Instagram have a real live shopping, not a bullshit one that looks like TikTok. I think you will see Google and YouTube have real live shopping. I think you'll see Twitter and Amazon and others. Live shopping is an inevitable outcome.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  And live shopping, what is the dynamic? You set up a live stream and you start showing your clothes. How would it be for us, for example?

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, you just set up this beautiful camera and what's amazing about TikTok, and this morning at 7:00 AM, I was on TikTok Live. Went into studio and went on TikTok Live. Was on for an hour, right, Train? Was on for an hour. And at the end of the show, because I wanted to teach people who were watching me, there was a couple thousand people watching, I wanted to teach them how profound this technology is. I was live, I was answering people's questions. I was not, I was not doing live shopping, but because I was on TikTok Live and I have a shop, I did throw up some V Friends by Pokemon Brand items and people were buying them. But I said at the end, I said, how many people here who are watching right now have never seen me before? I don't mean, don't follow me normally.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  I don't mean like, you know, oh, I've seen your face or your voice, yeah, or a viral clip. I mean, you in your whole life have never seen this face, even though I have 50-plus million followers, 73 trillion views for 20 years. And the amount of people that said me shocked the other thousands because what TikTok does and why Nude Project should be on TikTok Live 24 hours a day. I'm dead serious. Is because TikTok throws content into people's for you pages randomly. As, I don't know who are TikTok users here, I would assume most of you. When you were going through TikTok, every 19th piece of content is someone live either

• 7:48Speaker 00

  selling shit or doing something like we see on Twitch or Kick, AKA Live. That is called free discoverability.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Underpriced attention is there.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  The most underpriced attention is there, my friend. That's right. And so that, you could go live and bring value. Like if you went live right now on TikTok on New Project and started to show the showroom, many people who have never heard of this brand would see it. If you went live on Instagram, only people that know this brand would see it. Do you understand how profound that is?

• 8:19Speaker 02

  I think it's crazy.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  So, so when you go live shopping, when you go live, when you go live on TikTok and you're selling something and you're 16 years old and you have no followers, TikTok does the work for you, the first part. Then there's people watching, then you've got to keep them and sell them. That's on you. But it's for free. You know, like I grew up in marketing well into my 30s where nothing was free. If I wanted to sell mail, direct mail, money. If I wanted to be in a newspaper ad, which I did a lot of back in the day, for real money. If I wanted to run a commercial on TV, real money. Radio ads, I did all of that. All costs money. Social media is free.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  The distribution, of course you could spend ads, but you don't have to. Alex Earl spent nothing. Mr. Beast spent nothing.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Zero. So I built my brand with zero on Twitter from 2007 to 11. Zero. That is a profound meritocracy for 16-year-olds in the middle of nowhere. And it's even better because now the production value, what you can do with AI, uh, it's, this is the greatest era of opportunity in mankind history. And 99% of the people walking outside right now think the world's coming to an end because they listen to all the negativity and they're wildly confused.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Ok, eu tenho uma dúvida séria. Estamos falando no TikTok Live. Ok, eu entendo a oportunidade, eu vejo como agora é onde você pode obter a maior exposição o mais fácil. A moda é sobre ser aspiracional. Às vezes ser aspiracional significa...

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Limitações, velvet ropes.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Enigma.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Sim, eu entendo.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Como você faz isso compatível com estar na câmera, digamos 24/7? Ou se não é 24/7, uma hora por dia?

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Eu acho que é muito fácil. Como, você sabe, é entender quando ser acessível para o racional de ser aspiracional. O que significa que você aparecendo na câmera ou você tendo conteúdo constante, sua acessibilidade é apenas a promoção de seu produto. Quando Prada ou Gucci ran ad full page em Vogue em 1987, todo mundo o estava vendo. Se você estivesse 24/7, você e a marca, 24/7 no social, 24/7, por causa do quão fragmentado o mundo é,

• 10:53Speaker 00

  você teria menos exposição do que todas as marcas de moda que você olha para obtiveram em apenas um ad full page em Vogue. Então essa é a resposta à sua pergunta, meu amigo. Você entende?

• 11:02Speaker 03

  Eu acho que a criatividade que está atrás dessa vida tinha que ser algo que fosse aspiracional nesse sentido, porque a ad de Prada estava incrível e a vida que você faz pode estar parecendo merda, você sabe?

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Sim, novamente, eu acho que, ouçando, eu sou incrivelmente empático com a "duchery" da indústria da moda. Como ouvir vocês serem "duches" uns com os outros agora é muito inspirado. E eu sei que as pessoas amam, elas amam isso, porque as pessoas amam o classismo. As pessoas amam velvet ropes. As pessoas amam viver na escola de secundária o resto de sua vida. Eu entendo o que você está falando e eu entendo. Comma, você pode fazer ambos. Deixa eu te fazer uma pergunta. Quando você está abrindo essa loja?

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Hoje, sábado, 12.

• 11:44Speaker 00

  Excelente.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  42 graus.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  Quantas pessoas você esperaria que estiveram alinhadas para entrar nessa... Qual é o seu sonho, vocês dois, belos jovens? Qual é o seu grande sonho de quantas pessoas que você desejava estivessem alinhadas amanhã para entrar nessa loja? Qual é o seu adivinho? Como, qual é o seu adivinho? Quantas pessoas você acha que vão estar alinhadas?

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Digamos humilhamente.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Humilhamente, sim. O que eu sei que é um desafio.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Não, eu acho que realmente, eu nunca sei.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Qual é o seu...

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Digamos 200, 300 pessoas.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Você seria como...

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Nós seríamos felizes.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  Você seria como, "isso é o que esperamos", certo? Então se for 80, você é como, "p****". E se for 500, você é como, "ok, estamos fazendo", certo? Deixa eu te fazer uma pergunta. O meu ponto que eu fiz nos últimos 5 minutos é se você entendeu como equilibrar ambos e não sucumbiu apenas à ideologia de ano passado e como as marcas o fizeram antes de você.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Sim.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  E você entendeu o nuances e a mutação que estou dizendo, que ambos são achievable. Eu acho que você teria 5000 pessoas fora. É isso. E então a pergunta se torna, o que vocês estão fazendo? Estão tentando mostrar para 30 e 40 anos que você olha para em moda? Ou estão tentando construir um negócio de bilhão de dólares? Ou algo entre eles? E por acaso, você é autorizado a fazer o que vocês quiserem fazer. Mas minha intuição é, desde os muitos anos que eu conheci você, é que estão tentando construir um negócio. E eu acho que você está fazendo muito bem e eu acho que está fazendo devagar e estratégico. Eu sempre desafio mim mesmo de como eu posso fazer melhor. E o que eu acredito que é de outra pessoa...

• 13:21Speaker 00

  Vocês dois homens não são os inventores de que para ser uma marca de moda adequada você precisa construir algum nível de não-acessibilidade. Vocês dois não são os inventores. Vocês são os seguidores. Minha pergunta para você é, dado como o mundo funciona, você pode ser os inventores de alcançar ambos?

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Eu acho que é o sonho. Tem sido durante os últimos anos. Eu sempre disse, eu disse a Bruno, estávamos saíndo do caminho de Tommy Hilfiger e falando com ele, como Tommy é um jogo de design e nosso jogo tem sido o jogo de empreendedorismo. Então, como, nós somos ambos marketers. Nós vimos isso de uma maneira e eu sinto que nós temos hackeado o sistema dessa maneira, talvez.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  Sim, e por acaso, você e Tommy acabaram no mesmo lugar. Vocês são marketers, mas quando eu ando por aí e olho para esse produto, como, "p****, cara", eu realmente não conheço moda como vocês, "p****s", mas como, não é uma bosta, eu como, entro e digo, "cara, esse produto é legal". Você sabe, como, eu sou como, "isso é o que eu acho que todo mundo acha que é legal". Como, isso é como, e então, você sabe, e para Tommy, como, Tommy é um marketer.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Ele é um marketer.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Sim, vocês só não conhecem a história bem o suficiente, ele é um marketer. Como, mas se você é um... Para chegar aos níveis de sucesso comercial, se você é um criativo em todo o lado ou um marketer em todo o lado, para chegar a aquele nível, você termina no meio de qualquer forma, em seu negócio. Se você é o melhor marketer do mundo e todas essas roupas parecem merda, você perde.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Eu tenho outro debate que acabou de aparecer quando eu estava ouvindo você. O conceito completo de uma marca pessoal, ele se tornou muito forte recentemente. Não foi inventado recentemente, não, porque Steve Jobs tinha uma marca pessoal, o Heffernan tinha uma marca pessoal, etc. Mas eu sinto que recentemente ele pensou, "oh, você quer começar um negócio, você quer começar uma marca", você precisa de uma marca pessoal.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  É uma arma massiva, você não precisa de uma.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Como você se sente sobre isso?

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Eu não acho que você precise de nada. Eu acho que eu posso nomear, eu quero dizer, não, eu quero dizer, você pode nomear empresas ilimitadas que não têm uma marca pessoal e elas a estão ferindo, certo? Como, sendo dito isso, seria delusional não entender que a habilidade de documentar seu caminho de construir uma marca, até eu, em minha marca, estou fazendo isso com V Friends e ninguém até me vê fazendo isso. Você sabe, eu estou documentando eu construindo a próxima Disney e Marvel e ainda mais as pessoas não o veem, porque todo mundo está vendo o que eles querem ver agora. Mas é uma das armas que todos os empreendedores devem considerar, mas não é uma exigência. Qualquer um que está assistindo agora, que é introvertido, que valoriza sua vida privada

• 16:01Speaker 00

  mas quer construir uma marca, eu tenho notícias tremendas. Não é uma exigência. Todo mundo que está aberto a isso, eu tenho notícias tremendas. É uma arma nova em nosso arsenal para construir um negócio e isso é maravilhoso.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  E como você se sente, porque há também pessoas que talvez gostem de V Friends, mas então eles veem você falando na câmera e eles são como, "oh, eu não gosto desse cara". Há pessoas que você ama, mas há pessoas que vão... Porque a marca pessoal é muito mais pessoal do que o nome implica, não?

• 16:27Speaker 00

  Eu, sim, eu acho que é certo.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Não é perigoso para uma marca?

• 16:30Speaker 00

  É perigoso se você tem, se você é o tipo de personalidade que mais pessoas desejam você do que gostam de você.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  Felizmente para mim, não me perdeu minha ofusso, minha energia alfa, minha... Há pessoas que não me gostam. Felizmente para mim, muitos mais me gostam do que não me gostam e então eu estou disposto a jogar esses jogos. Se eu tenho a habilidade de falar com 100 pessoas e 83 vão me gostar e 17 não, isso acontece 100 vezes, isso vai funcionar. Se eu falo com uma multidão de 100 pessoas e 83 desejam me e 17 me gostam, isso é algo que você precisa se preocupar.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Se nós vamos para o chat GPT, o que é algo que você está fazendo que nos faria explodir nossos corações?

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Eu posto 1000 peças de conteúdo por dia. E ainda mais eu fui no TikTok Live esta manhã e disse, "quantos de vocês nunca viram esse rosto em sua vida?" E 100 disseram eu.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Então, como vocês preocupam com a sobre-exposição,

• 17:30Speaker 00

  você pode imaginar, você sabe, como alguém que tem trodado a moeda mais valiosa do mundo, a atenção, por agora quase 30 anos, efetivamente, eu sonho quando as pessoas se preocupam com a sobre-exposição. É inacreditável. A sobre-exposição é inacreditável. Há muito fragmentação.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Ok. Voltando para a AI, digamos que estamos super, estamos super básicos com a AI com o conhecimento que temos agora, não, eu acho que estamos fazendo o mínimo ou...

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Sim, você está ocupado, você está nele.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Você pode me dar uma fórmula passo a passo para você ser eu agora? Como você vai indo?

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Eu realmente te estou dizendo, não para o show, eu estou te dizendo a vocês dois que você precisa tomar uma semana inteira de férias, limpar, e trazer, quem for o trust do cérebro aqui, ou se você não o tiver, traz pessoas fora que podem ajudar você. E vocês dois, não o seu CTO, que eu nem acho que você tenha, não alguém mais, vocês dois seres humanos amanhã, como você sabe quando vocês fazem o Summer House e a pizza e tudo isso? Você precisa ir a um cabinho em Michigan, América, não Nova York, as ruas elegantes de San Francisco, você precisa ir a Siberia por uma semana e você precisa passar 20 horas todos os dias por sete dias, aprendendo absolutamente tudo sobre eficiência.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Cada coisa aqui deve ser preço através do contexto de uma infraestrutura AI que te ajuda a maximizar o máximo que você pode pagar por ela. Você sabe quanto dinheiro vocês estão deixando na mesa com os produtos aqui? Você adivinhou. Agora, foi um adivinho educado, você é como, "oh, esses "p****s estão vendendo roupas por isso e isso é o que está acontecendo e nossas vendas anteriores mostram isso", mas você não sabe. Mas se você construir o propero tech stack, você construir o propero pensamento AI, você pode prever em frente, não olhar para trás. Você está olhando para trás quando você está fazendo todas as suas decisões. Certo? Eu sei isso porque todos nós fazemos isso.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Sim, você pode enganar.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  É tudo o que nós fomos capazes de fazer, mas agora, meu Deus. Você sabe que toda manhã às 7:30 da manhã eu recebo um texto do meu clã aberto que me diz os 15 itens mais vendidos no TikTok Live Shopping do dia anterior apenas para entender o que o mundo está comprando? Mas você não e você vende merda. Olá, pessoal, espero que esteja curtindo o podcast agora. Aproveite e siga o podcast, é por isso que estou interrompendo. Vamos continuar nesse show, mas siga o podcast. Vai fazer minha mãe super feliz.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  In these last 2 years of growth, what's been the most surprising thing? Real talk, be humble and vulnerable. What's been the most surprising? Good, bad, left, right? What's been the most surprising? Something that you two did not think... And like, give it some thought. Like, obviously, I know the success that's happening, but I also know you guys, that's not surprising you. You already at a point where you had so much momentum, it makes sense. This store is not surprising to you.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  I see. Let me start with 2 things, 1 bad and 1 good.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  And 1 bad thing, or a challenge that we faced, was actually us not doing,

• 20:46Speaker 03

  perhaps the homework right, on what you told us about family, the first time we met.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Because we, I think we misinterpreted it.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  And we, in fact, became like, too close, or we developed like unhealthy relationships with our employees. Some of them were super proud of, and some of them are doing amazing.

• 21:07Speaker 00

  But others...

• 21:08Speaker 03

  But our biggest challenge was the team, and we had to step up many, with many roles in the leadership team, for example.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  Your kindness, your family, your lack of candor to those people because you cared, created entitlement.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, listen, my issue too, for a very long time. It's, everyone has to go through it. I mean, I have literally goosebumps. You're very lucky that you knew it now. I don't feel that I really, really grasped it. What year did we first meet?

• 21:35Speaker 03

  2023.

• 21:37Speaker 00

  So, I would say you caught me just as I was starting to get good at it. I would say only in 2021, did I start to harness. I was 45 years old, whatever it was, you know. Only, only then did I harness it. That's great, for you to be this young, and already like tasted it, and know what it looks like, now you can find your balance. You went 2 left. You know, now you're in the middle with that, that's profound. But, let me tell you why it's good. Why it's always better to build family versus not family. Yes, you probably have had some tough situations, including people that you considered friends, or maybe even before were friends, who right now, you're not in a great spot. 1, I promise you, it will come around.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Whoever is upset, you or them, it will come around if it's true friendship. 2, look how many people you have, that it did work out with, and now you're family. You know, I've had dozens that it didn't work out with, but look, that's my brother. You understand?

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  It's different. It's very, it's family. You know? That's different. And that, you can't beat. How are you gonna beat? Family. You understand? So, you have 5, 7, 9, 2, 3, 6, 12, that you're now unstoppable. There was some pain, but you always, you always wanted to develop something dramatically tighter with... Continuity in a business is profoundly beautiful for many reasons. First, the human stuff. Second, the business results that come along with it.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  I'll go back to the positive thing that has...

• 23:12Speaker 00

  I wanna hear it, I wanna hear it.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. We've been getting so much Korean people in our stores. Like in Barcelona, there's many Koreans getting in there.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  Once you win in Asia, you win. That's huge. It's amazing.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  It's surprising because you haven't done nothing, like practically...

• 23:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, this is the beauty of building a great product. Sometimes the product does the work for you. Right? You know this, it's serendipity. Clearly, the right people that influenced Korean culture, whether it was a K-pop star, or 20 of them, whether it was an athlete, a soccer player, whether it was a model...

• 23:45Speaker 03

  The BTS guys like, for example.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Well, then, what the fuck are we talking about? No wonder, you're... No shit, you're doing well in Korea. The biggest fucking band in the world from Korea liked it.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  How are you surprised? That's the least surprising thing I've ever heard in my life.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Do we go, do we go...

• 24:03Speaker 03

  Do we go TikTok live? Do we go to Korea? Or do we go back to building a great product? Because that's something that...

• 24:08Speaker 00

  The answer is yes. You do all 3.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  Everything.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro. Like, what are you doing with the money?

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Spending it all. Hire people.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  That's, you got it. More people, more people.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  More people.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  More people. You're in the moment. By the way, I think this will make sense to you. You guys are smart. You will not be this hot forever. You can't. You know what I mean? You can't. Once you hit maturity, by nature, the bigger you get, the less cool you become. But, you may not... My intuition on what I'm hearing, is you do not have enough teammates at senior levels right this minute. And that's scary. You're bringing in, I understand why. Bringing in, you know, at this level, it's more fun for all of them to grow with you. I did it. You know, Nick was there. I didn't, I hated bringing in senior people. It's almost like I hired them and started making fun of them immediately. To my OGs. But, but, but it was required.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  And when you make the right hires, when I hired JT, and Wanda, and Rob, you know, and others, that helped VaynerX go from 100 million to 400 million top line revenue. I could, you guys have to hire some team players that matter.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  One thing, talking about team. You're always, you're very expansive. Gary Vee's like, alright, bigger scale, content, oh, like it's part of your philosophy.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  I've found out that we've grown quite quickly, and quite quickly to our scale, of course.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's all contextual.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  And sometimes when we hired very quickly, and we grew a lot in team, I kind of felt like we were being less effective.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's right.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Than when we were more...

• 25:49Speaker 00

  That, by the way, that's true.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  A smaller, and then I...

• 25:51Speaker 00

  And also sometimes less, you're worried about it's diluting the brand and all that, for sure.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Culture, etc. But then I go to Apple this weekend. We go to the Apple offices. We're talking to their design team, and their 20 designers, Apple, the biggest company in the world, is 20 designers? Make the next Apple product. I would win the new, sorry for the...

• 26:09Speaker 00

  Yes. That's in that area.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Don't, how many employees does Apple have? Thank you. You're choosing 1 slice of the apple, to appease your ideology.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Don't tell me Apple, and then talk about small.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Do not do that. In fact, Apple is the example of my belief.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Great brand, expansive all over the world.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  And there's still some people that you show the iPhone, and they don't know, they've never seen an iPhone.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Not that, not that, not them. They've achieved the goal. Have everyone on earth know who you are, and still be meaningful.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  That's true, that's true. For example, let's say we need to hire that person for...

• 26:59Speaker 00

  A GM for New York, for America, yeah.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Or take our number 2 retail guy, who would be another option. What type of person should we look for?

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Take the number 2 retail... The number 1 thing I would do, is take your best retail person in Europe, and move them to America. Number 1 thing I would do. You already know it. If you guess, excuse me, if you guess wrong in America, and you're over there, this is gonna be a pain in the ass. You know what you have with 1 of your top people. Number 1, number 2, number 3, get them here.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Are you selling the company next year?

• 27:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  Great, then you need to make a lot less profit.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  No, but like, I, okay, they're less profit to invest more, to grow more, etc. I get it. But I feel like in fashion, it's almost healthier having a better profit margin, and going a bit slower, because the brand is the equity.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Do you know how small, do you know how small you are in Brazil? Do you know how small nude project is in Brazil?

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's...

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Let me tell you. It is so tiny. It is so tiny, that it would make your head spin. Do you know how small you guys are

• 28:15Speaker 00

  in America? Do you?

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Very small, yeah. The other day on the street, I didn't see anything.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  Poco. Poquito.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  You are tiny. You want the best one? Do you know how small you are in Europe?

• 28:33Speaker 00

  You have been red-pilled into this ideology of how a proper fashion brand is built, and cadence. And you are vulnerable to missing, maximizing your moment to build, to remind you, this is not an art exhibit. You potentially could miss the moment of building a much bigger business.

• 28:55Speaker 03

  Facts.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  Facts.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Or not. Like, it's not that I'm right. Like, you just might, I don't know. You don't even know, living it every day? How long is this window of proper relevance? And what you don't know, is are there 2 kids right now?

• 29:15Speaker 03

  With AI.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  With AI?

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Building.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  And just, by the way, fuck AI. Just 2 16-year-olds that are looking at you the way you looked at Kith.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  They're there, they're definitely there.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  No shit, you're inspiring them.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  This podcast you think is helping you for America? You might have just inspired the two kids that are about to kill you. You understand?

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Listen, I am a buyer of what you're saying. I'm not a buyer of how you have it contextualized to the size of the prize. Got it?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  I'm not asking you to fucking print forty billion t-shirts and put them into Walmart.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  That is not what I am asking you. I'm asking you to calibrate, because let me tell you what you will be very sad about.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Is if you wake up in six years and there's four new brands that have taken your space and you're in the middle. You didn't get here, but you're not cool enough here, and now you're in the fucking middle.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Oof.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  Oof, it's the worst. No, and guess what? In your lovely fashion world, once you're in the middle, once you're a dork in high school, it takes something miraculous to get you out of there.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  A hot girl, like the hot girl.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  The hottest.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  And that's like weirdly easier. It is easier for the dork of the dorks to get the hot girl in high school to change his brand than it is for a fashion brand that's in the middle to recalibrate to capture its old juice. So what you need to do is get the business big enough so that when there's a slowdown or a moment where that starts to happen, it is at such scale that you're not gonna give a fuck.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Let's get to another topic that latches to that, which is how do you grow and become big without being less cool? It's, we see it in fashion, it's like the most known topic. It's everyone wants it, everyone gets it, nobody wants it.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Now we've seen it with Supreme, we've seen it with like all types of brands. How do you calibrate that?

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Um, I think at some level, your gift is your curse. You don't. When you're a hot fashion brand like you are, you are basically the equivalent of a very attractive young woman or a very successful athlete.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  There's going to be things that change over time. It's just life. The question becomes, are you able to do the thing that the best brands of all time, which is reinvent yourself from the down? Right? What has made the iconic fashion brands in Italy and France successful? The ones you put on a pedestal? They've had to reinvent themselves. It's not like Gucci has been all the, it's eh, and eh, and eh, right? And so the answer to your question is, you will have this run. If you do not sell, or even if you sold and now it sits in a holding company, it will then decline. And then it will require a marketing person and a fashion lead

• 32:17Speaker 00

  to reinvent the brand and recalibrate it. And when everybody forgot that you were not cool anymore, you become cool again. Reebok was the coolest fucking sneaker in nineteen eighty-four when I was a kid. It's been dead for fucking thirty years. And the last three years, it's gotten some of its mojo back.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  You guys are the founders though. You're not the fucking conglomerate who, you're not the CEO of the fucking, you know, carrot group. You guys are the fucking founders. Your job is to make it as big as possible while you guys are driving it. You have no idea how big I think you guys could be.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Wait, because I have a bit of imposter syndrome when you say that. Why do you think we're gonna be so big? Like, I need to understand why.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  I think you've got the right elements. I mean, it's just transpiring in my face. I mean, it's, it's hard to describe. I think you guys are good enough entrepreneurs and will get better, and you're already doing it. Even me sitting in here, hearing that you're learning the family, like, I just, intuitively, when I first met you, I'm like, these kids are gonna get better. Right? Um, I feel like you knew what I knew. Like, I think your point is well taken. I knew that you guys understood where the world was going in marketing, and that just matters. When I saw the clothes and stuff like that, I don't value my subjective opinion on fashion because it's not my passion, I don't put time in it, and I don't think it comes natural to me. It's not like what I'm great at.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  But I could, I sensed what I see now, which was you were, similar to how you understood communication, I felt confident that you would understand the temperament of the actual product, and it wouldn't be hard for you to... I didn't think at the time, and still might, I still don't necessarily think it, that you might invent the trend. But I feel that your ability to move quickly with the trend and put your unique spin on it will make you successful. I think the biggest, listen, I really mean this, this is the most interesting thing here. This is gonna work. The question is, to how much? And then to what your goals are? You know, I don't know. Like, how much do you want it to be about revenue and how big the business is?

• 34:27Speaker 00

  And how much do you want about your subjective opinion of how you feel like it's cool? Like, I don't know, you're allowed. You're allowed to give no fucks. By the way, this is gonna blow your mind. I don't give a fuck about revenue. I'm being dead fucking serious with you. Even though big, I like playing the game I want to play.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  I'm just making sure you're thinking about your options, not that you should do what I'm saying, that you should pressure test it against your own.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  We get it.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  I love that. Because maybe we decided that we want to have less stores and be happier in Spain with our family.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  It might, it might be right. It might be right. It might be right. It might be right.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  But it's great to know the options and what you're saying no to.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think it's also cool that it's very easy to get caught up in your own lies of like, oh, maybe I shouldn't do this because this is gonna affect the brand negatively.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  That, that.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  And that's the stupid thing about gays, that he puts that in your face.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and out of love, I don't want you to get, I don't want you to get caught. Because that's when regret, that's when you're thirty-six and you're like, motherfucker, I got high on my own supply.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  You understand? And when you're hot and you're fucking hanging out with that circle, that is the currency. You're succumbing to cool, not to capitalism.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  And that's okay. In fact, I think it's right for a lot of people. I just don't know. But that becomes the debate. The question is, when you build a real business that's foundational, cool comes and goes.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  So, I know you like to predict the future, right?

• 36:02Speaker 00

  I really don't actually. No, really, really, yeah, you know that. You guys know, you know my content well. I don't predict, I'm just very fast on observations.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  I just saw this on the...

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Please, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Gary predicted the future. We're doing a fast round, and you're gonna say overrated, underrated, dead?

• 36:20Speaker 00

  I'm ready.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  So, let's say TikTok.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Underrated.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Instagram?

• 36:26Speaker 00

  Properly rated.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  AI influencers?

• 36:32Speaker 00

  In the current state, potentially overrated, eventually underrated.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Personal brands?

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Underrated.

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Physical review?

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Underrated.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Fashion shows?

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Depends on how much you spend on it. Could be both very easily underrated and overrated. Execution really matters in that one.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Influencer marketing?

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Underrated.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  College?

• 37:03Speaker 00

  For anyone who's creative and entrepreneurial, it is very, very, very overrated. For a small group that need that degree to do what they want to do in life legally, or like in legal or in medicine, it's, it's properly rated. College is never underrated.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Working from home?

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Uh, I think that's incredibly, that is both underrated and overrated. There are some people who desperately need to be working in offices for osmosis and energy and learning, and they're blowing it because they don't want to do a commute. And then for other people, because they're raising a family and they're able to be very productive at home, but also get more family time, it's underrated. So I would say overrated and underrated.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  And Europe?

• 37:46Speaker 00

  I think Europe is, um, is, I actually believe it is underrated. I'm, I'm, you know, I like to razz that Europe doesn't work, but I don't really mean it. I think Europe is underrated on the family thing so much, on trying to extract the value of life. When we, when you put Europe on the playing field of entrepreneurship, it's very overrated. It's a disaster. It just is. And that's, but I don't, but you have to understand, as one of the faces of entrepreneurship, I could say that humbly, I don't think entrepreneurship's that important. Meaning, if it's important to you, for you guys, it matters. Which is why you're really American boys.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  But, but for, you know, if you're not an entrepreneur, if you don't care to create wealth creation for your family or for your society, I think entrepreneurship is the most underrated thing in the world. If there are not humans amongst us eight billion who are striving to create, there is nothing. The fuck do you think the world is? All it is, is the byproduct of entrepreneurs.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Now I have one last personal, like, it's a more personal question to you.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Please.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Um, it's always a question I've had about Gary Vee. And in the recent years, I've come to value more living a full life more than just being completely successful in the American title of success.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  You know, with like fame, money, uh, power. And I've come to realize, in the beginning, I thought that was everything. Now I've come to realize I like having friends, I like having family. I like having a good job, but it's not everything.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Listening to Gary Vee when I was like sixteen?

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  And like other American references, like, okay, success is everything.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  I wanna know your take on that now, and how is your life now?

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Go look at my content, I was saying the same shit. You were just in a place in your life where success was what you were focused on.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Gary Vee says the same shit, that receipts exist.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  I remember, you said success was happiness.

• 39:40Speaker 00

  I mean...

• 39:40Speaker 03

  But it's true that you talked about the hustle.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Well, I talked about the, I talked about the opportunity. I mean, by the way, if you decided to listen to this podcast and all you heard was spend twenty hours a day learning AI, then you think I'm selling hustle. But if you listen to the other parts of the podcast, I said, but entrepreneurship doesn't mean anything. I am consistent, you're evolving.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  That's some real fucking bars. Maybe I am Russ after all. You know, like, like, like, real talk though, right? Like, in Crush It, my book, that I, in 2009, my book, I'm like, in the book, it says, "If you make forty-eight thousand dollars a year, and you are happy, you've won in life." The f- when, so when people are like, "Gary, you pushed success up," I'm like, "Fuck you." No, I don't. You chose to clip me...

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Talking about...

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Before clipping was a thing, you clipped me in your mind to hear what you wanted to hear. You were at sixteen, wanted to make it, that's what you were hearing from me. Today, you've lived, I remember a lot, you know, we hung one time where you were in the mix of it.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  You were like, yeah, you were, you were transitioning. Like, I'm like, like, I'm, I'm only interested in everybody listening to this, the gals and guys behind the cameras, and everybody listening for the next hundred years that this is accessible to people, I'm only interested in them enjoying their lives. Because we only have one. Whether they want to build big companies, whether they want to lay on the beach and do nothing,

• 41:12Speaker 00

  that's their life. I just want to make sure they're happy with it. And you can change your mind. By the way, this is not a binary game, my friend. You might want to do nothing with business for three years in your life. And then after that, you might be like, "Fuck, I miss it." And come out of retirement and go back and work harder in your forties than you ever did in your twenties. You're allowed. Shit changes.

• 41:36Speaker 04

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• 42:06Speaker 02

  I think that's how we're gonna end it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Gary Vee. Hello, uh, this is Bruno.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  And Alex.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  From Nude Project, and, uh, yeah, we're the owners of Nude Project, as the name entitles, and this is our first ephemeral store in New York City. It's the Big Apple, it's where Gary Vee resides, so we're fucking excited and nervous. We're at Soho, right now, 42 Green Street. We open this Saturday for the next three, four months. Um, so yeah, we hope people kind of show up.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Awesome. Now, you just did an interview, a podcast with Gary Vee. What was your favorite takeaway from that whole thing? There's a bunch, you know, there's a lot of soundbites in there.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Look, I, just off the top, I like the concept of not taking my life so seriously and my schedule so seriously, and being able to get a week off, where I just concentrate on curiosity, and in this case, AI, and just deep dive, without thinking, "Oh, if I'm not there for a week, things aren't gonna work as well, or the company is not gonna be alive just because it's not the truth." You know, so to stop lying to myself and get to work. Alex, so do you mind?

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, wow. I think for me, it was Gary showing us the opportunity that we have right now as a, as a brand, and how, like, we cannot pretend it's not, it's not happening. We have to be thoughtful about our strategic plans for the next few years. So, we don't miss out on the chance that we, we're very, very, very blessed to, to have.

• 43:34Speaker 05

  Seize the opportunity.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Nice. Now, before, before, um, the podcast started, what was going through your mind when, when Gary showed up? The excitement that you guys had, what, what were you feeling?

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Let me, let me, let me go, let me go on this one. Gary, for me, when I was like fifteen, sixteen, he was an idol, and, and someone who inspired me to pursue entrepreneurship, who told me that, uh, making something like as nineteen years old was, was possible, and it was a dream to meet him one day. So, being able to film a podcast was life-changing, yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  I forget how, how much Gary Vee is Gary Vee. And when he just walked through the door, and I saw him completely locked, and he didn't want to miss a second, he just wanted to get to it. I'm like, "Oh, it's game time, you know, it's Gary time."

• 44:26Speaker 00

  Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and, uh, thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.