Justin Gaethje on Cheating Allegations, Craziest DMs & Kicking Schulz

YERRRR we have THE legend Justin Gaethje on the show today. We're talking: - Topuria and the glove allegations - His wild DMs - How the fight brings that laser focus - The adjustments needed in a fight - Kicking Alexx and the rest of the crew - The impact of his parents - Possibility of retiring and much, much more! Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 1:37 Alexx can beat any white man? Prison rules 3:12 Topuria = delusional + Not a lightweight 6:41 Fight v Ilia + Leading the dance 13:26 Dubai, Little dead leg + Not feeling 16:40 Outdoors brings own issues + It's never over 19:44 Maybe retirement? His g4y DMs + Great cardio 25:29 Do you know what we do? Golfing with DC 28:36 Avoiding conflict, Discipline + Dustin call in 32:36 Never want to disappoint, No shame + The focus 38:31 Intentions with sparring + Max Holloway 41:05 Emotions hurt you + They wanna k1ll me 45:37 Blending styles, same mechanics + Peel their face open 50:00 Talking in the cage + Adjustments 55:16 Celebrity Boxing, Deaths in the ring + Jake Paul 1:00:29 UFC predictions, Volk loves to cook + Great actor [Kalshi] 1:03:44 Poker, Bruno is businessman + Seeing Justin LOSE 1:07:37 Can't control Justin's emotions 1:09:12 Where does the competitiveness come from? 1:10:36 Justin didn't plan to fight + Copper mining 1:15:29 Social work was the plan, Drogas + Mexican nicknames 1:22:11 Winning belt, Mom's investment + Child's perspective 1:26:14 Friends kept him away, Dedication to sports + Eye surgery 1:30:00 How to counter-punch + The hardest puncher 1:34:41 Promo getting personal + Hanging out after 1:37:11 Nervous for teammates, Hole in one + Craps 1:44:47 Justin gets in his head + STOP 1:48:11 Justin kicks Flagrant 1:59:01 Appreciating the sport, Recovery + Being Compromised 2:04:13 Backrolls + Who does Justin want to fight? Retirement? This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. #justingaethje #ufc #andrewschulz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  You got a girl, right?

• 0:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  What are DMs looking like? I don't even know them.

• 0:32Mark Gagnon?

  Bullshit.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Let me show you, okay?

• 0:34Mark Gagnon?

  One hoe, two hoe.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Where? They're in there, don't get me wrong. I'm not responding, I'm not accepting.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  See this one right here? Oh, no! No! Justin! Yo, that one was crazy! I saw fingers disappear.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  That's someone's daughter.

• 0:52Mark Gagnon?

  And you know, they call me New Yorkers could be, just letting you know. No one called, no one's ever called.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  The bad thing is you're saying all this on camera and you're like, "Let me kick you one."

• 1:00Speaker 01

  One kick, Al. Do you want to do it, Al?

• 1:03Speaker 02

  He's already signed up.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Oh, God. Don't hurt yourself.

• 1:07Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, you going this one?

• 1:08Speaker 02

  I'm gonna kick you on that, like.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  What's up? And welcome to Flagrance. Listen, most fighters spend their careers trying to figure out how to win. Our guest figured out something even harder: how to make people care. When he fights, nobody's scrolling their phone, nobody's sending texts, nobody's responding to emails. You lock the fuck in, because you don't know if you're about to see a knockout, a war, two grown men permanently shorting each other's lives, man. You just know that you're gonna fucking remember it. He's the only fighter whose nickname isn't marketing, it's a guarantee. Ladies and gentlemen, UFC World Champion, Justin "The Highlight" Gagey. In the motherfucking building.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  What's up, boys?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Looks good, brother. Bro, thank you so much for coming, man. We're stoked to see you, dude.

• 1:55Mark Gagnon?

  Sizing you up real quick.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Check it, make sure I don't have candy on my hands.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  You know, Alex thinks he's never lost a fight to a white guy, and I know you're half-Mexican, but he doesn't think that white guys could beat him up. Hmm.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Do you have a gym here?

• 2:12Mark Gagnon?

  See, he's smaller in person, though.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Smaller?

• 2:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, he's small. I think you guys walk around a little bit bigger when you're not fighting.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  What do you weigh?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  You weigh 152 pounds.

• 2:23Mark Gagnon?

  170, solid.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 2:25Speaker 01

  What do you think about those legs? You think you could kick through those legs?

• 2:28Mark Gagnon?

  These are John Joe's legs. John Joe's legs. John Joe's legs.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  How many leg kicks to just snap those things in half, you think?

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Depends. Have you ever gotten kicked before?

• 2:39Mark Gagnon?

  I have. I did a little karate back in the day.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Karate? He did hook karate. Four, four, he's done, he's not walking the same?

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Four. Four, and he says, "Uncle."

• 2:48Mark Gagnon?

  You won't get three.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Let's go one for one, and then we'll see.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Ooh, later.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  And then, listen, you know, maybe 94 days later, he'll recreate what actually happened and have a bunch of excuses.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. He'll be, uh, not taking comfortable shit for at least three weeks.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Every time he goes, he's like, "Fuck you, Gagey!"

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I thought you were going through something else.

• 3:17Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I thought he was going to push my shit in the leg.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  You're gonna be walking different.

• 3:23Mark Gagnon?

  I thought it was prison rules, by the way.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I follow the rules at all times.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Justin, what's good? Like, you do, you achieve everything you ever wanted, and then, is it possible, and you tell me this, when you're dominant, and you dominate somebody who's never been dominated before, they can't accept reality, and they have to create excuses to live in this new world that they're faced with? Hmm.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know what the question was.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  But, I'm talking about Italy, I'm talking about Italy and making excuses.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  Well, I do think that he created a fake world before, and that's kind of the way that he performed, it worked for him.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Wait, what do you mean by that?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Like, creating, believing he's invincible, unbeatable, you know, that's not possible.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Nobody's fucking unbeatable or invincible. Having parties, updating bios, you know, so it's kind of the same thing.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Updating bios?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  He would update his bio as if he had already won before the fight would happen.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, the pre-fight celebration.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's a very similar thing, just as a loser now.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  So, are you thinking he's having a tough time coping with it? Or it's very easy with him because he can just manifest reality?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Can you pull up the quote that he put?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yep. What's the quote?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Do it. I want you to read it.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Because I know it's, I know, so it's very similar to like, "We're gonna stop, we're gonna finish this fight with his brother." Everyone's like, he's saying that we're gonna like, continue? That obviously means, whenever that English isn't your first language, "We're gonna finish the fight." He was saying, "We're done."

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you mean this one here?

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Final medical test done. I'm back to all the clowns who's been talking shit and counted me out this whole time. Here I am. Now, let's see who's got the balls. Thanks to everyone for the support. Next time, I'll make sure they check Justin's gloves so he doesn't put anything weird on them. See you soon.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  What's the weirdest word in that?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Uh...

• 5:26Speaker 02

  On.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, what would you put?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Like, acid? Like, what the fuck are you talking?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  What would you put on your glove?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, like, "Boy, I fucked shit on my glove, so that when I punch you, it causes immediate bacterial..."

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, puts like, on.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Swelling, like, what are you saying?

• 5:43Mark Gagnon?

  Gave him immediate pink eye.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's actually a good idea.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Far in his face. But, you know what I mean, like, on them? I'm sure, okay, you know, English isn't his first language, so maybe he's gonna name it "in them." But...

• 5:56Speaker 01

  What do you think, what is he talking about?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  He's, I don't know. I don't know. Look, I don't know, honestly,

• 6:04Speaker 02

  I mean, he honestly has to believe that I cheated, because...

• 6:09Speaker 01

  He can't accept the reality.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, how could, how could you do it again?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  I broke his face.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Bad. Like, never will look the same again.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Aw, he might look prettier later.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Might be an upgrade, is what you're saying.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Sixteen scars.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of handsome, you know what I mean? You get some scar tissue, you get stronger.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, he's not, I don't think he's a lightweight. I think he should go down. I think he'd be Volkanovski, be champion at featherweight. I don't think he'll ever be champion at lightweight.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Why, you just didn't feel it?

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Well, he can't be Armin. He's gonna have a difficult time with Patty. Uh, and there's a lot of bunch, there's a bunch of dogs. This, uh, I mean, this sport is crazy, so obviously, little luck, little chance, always involved.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Can he get lucky? And, you know, is he skilled enough? Absolutely. I think he's undersized for lightweight. That's what I felt.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Really?

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  It was crazy, because I rewatched, I was telling you this earlier, but like, I was rewatching the fight, and, uh, I don't know, there was like, some pretty amazing exchanges. Like, do you rewatch your fights, or something? You like, study?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Like, both of you guys making like, these slight, pretty awesome adjustments. Like, you just, you had this amazing jab in the beginning of the first round, and you landed like, three, it was boom, boom, but then he started timing the jab, and he was coming over the top of the right. And then you caught that, and then you did this thing where you would, it looked, I don't know, I'm not in your brain, but it looked like you were faking the throw of the jab, like you were delaying it and then shooting it to kind of throw off his timing?

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, if you watch the whole time, um, we're constantly changing beats, changing rhythms, both of us.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Both of us. So, you know, "leading the dance", that's like, one of the most common phrases in fighting.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Explain.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Like, someone's gonna, someone's always leading the dance.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Uh, meaning, one of us, someone's like, directing the way that we're moving.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Dictating the pace.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Dictating the way that the fight is happening. Um, and so, yeah, we're constantly fighting for that advantage. It's a battle of momentum. You know, someone's always leading the dance. It's usually changing, changing hands. Uh, but, you know, my goal, and my coach is so brilliant, amazing, that I've always concentrated and worked on controlling their feet.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Controlling his feet?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Controlling his feet, with my feet. Obviously, every action has a reaction. If I move one way, you're gonna move one way. And it's constant.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  So, how were you controlling his feet? Like, what were you trying to do?

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Well, so like, if, so I'm shifting left by one inch, like, so I'm, if you look at directions, it's like, left, left, left, left, left, right.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Got it, see?

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Left.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Nice little left kick.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Right, left.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  You know, those faints in between.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  And all these. And so then, and so then I'm looking for those moments to fire off of his setups. Cause usually he'll jab, boom, someone reacts. And then he's really effective with, but if you just punch on his setup, then you're, you're interrupting everything.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Right. So you didn't let him create the flow.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I, everything sounds like so cocky and like when I talk about it's in hindsight, but it's all speculation. It's all like, fighting is crazy. There's at least four or five punches that missed me by a millimeter.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  That would have, or could have knocked me out.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Um, one time I felt a punch that, you know, was like effective.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Which one? The body shot?

• 9:54Speaker 02

  I don't know. Well, those, I'm not counting those.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Cause the second.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Those are obvious.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Here's something, and again, I'm not in this guy's head, but it, it seemed to me that in the second rounds, when he got you in what looked like some trouble, I don't know how much trouble you actually felt like you were in. But it was a position you'd been in before, meaning you were comfortable being in trouble, knowing how to survive and get yourself back together. And then you got him in trouble and it felt like he wasn't comfortable in that position and didn't have the confidence that he was going to be able to finish you. And that's when I, it looked like there was this demeanor. I think this is maybe fourth round. And it just felt like there was this, I don't know how to get out of it. I'm not going to be able to hurt him. I can't do any jujitsu. There's a moment where it looked like he had you in a fucking arm bar. And then you work yourself out of that.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I've, I've, since Charles Oliver took me out, I've learned how to.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Defense of jujitsu. Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm working really, really hard.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  And I actually, I tried to sub him in. I tried to sub him.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  You tried to put him at darks, right?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  I tried to put him at darks and I could have put Patty in a dark spot. I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna take any chance of him having an underhook and hit my leg.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  And then switching.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Creating a scramble, but I could, with how, I could have fucking darks Patty. I should have.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  You think?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I should have. And it would have been awesome, but.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Whatever. Irrelevant. At the end of the, the second round, to put me in that position, he spent everything. And like, if you were, you were smart, I would have dumped so much money on me after I survived the second round. Cause that fight was over.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  What do you mean? You knew it in that moment?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Not, not, not like, like in hindsight, yes, of course. Watching, yes, of course. And in the fight, like I, I would never like have pride like that, be prideful like that. Like I've, like he's not dangerous no more. Like he's always super dangerous. So you'd never have a thought like that, but he spent so much energy. And like I told him before, he wasn't mentally prepared to go to those lay rounds and be in those, in the deep waters. You know, he didn't prepare for that. And then he, so that he knew that he had to finish me in the, in the second round. Did he make a mistake by not making me stand up?

• 12:11Speaker 02

  I think I, I would have stood up and then he would have tried to hit me in my body. I would have, you know, pulled guard and I would have, you know, recovered like I did. His best, I think his best chance was to go for the submissions, especially with the knowledge of I've been submitted by Khabib. I've been submitted by, um, you know, the, amongst the people, people think that I have terrible, terrible jujitsu. So why would he not go for the submission in that round? And then whenever he did it not.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  You've only been submitted by the two best.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  He didn't finish me with those body shots. Didn't finish me with those. He was fucking done. He was empty.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  So when you go to your.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Similar to how I was empty after I beat Khabib in the first round.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  I was done. That fight was over.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. I remember watching that fight.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. It took everything for me to do that. And I had nothing left.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Why? Just the pace was too high or?

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Um, there was a lot, I mean, different factors, you know, like I wanted to win so much in Abu Dhabi. Um, it was Khabib, was Khabib Mark made up?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Uh, I didn't want to fucking get on the ground with him. So I was like, I'm going to do everything I can to like avoid. And so I was, I fought his fight.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Instead of making him fight yours.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Well, instead of fighting, just fight like here, like I fought my fight. If I ever fight one of these, you know, wrestlers again, I'm not going to fight their, if I arm in, I'm not going to fucking worry about his wrestling. I'm going to move forward, you know, and be, um, in good position. I'm going to control range. I'm going to create angles. And I'm going to try to knock their fucking face off. So.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  And that's how you should fight. That's why Khabib was so effective. Cause he moved forward. All the champions move forward. I do believe that's like a huge factor.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  That it's not spoken about a lot.

• 13:51Mark Gagnon?

  I've heard you say like the day of the Khabib fight, your resting heart rate was a little bit higher than it normally was. Where you had an idea, something was going to be off that fight.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Well, I just, I knew, I mean, so I'm a creature of habit. I was in Abu Dhabi during COVID. Uh, we were, we were contained to a hotel. We didn't see, I saw the sun maybe twice in like 12 days. They don't have the same food as us. They don't have no milk. I love milk.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Their water is different. Like.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  It's just like, if you're, if you're a creature of habit, you were fucked. What food did you need? What, what were you missing out there?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Like, you know, fucking certified Angus beef. I don't know. I don't know what, what I was eating. Not goat or lamb and fucking goat milk. And it's just different.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Nothing wrong with it. It's just not what I was used to.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:44Mark Gagnon?

  And you know, they call me New York's Khabib. Just, just letting you know.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  No one called.

• 14:49Mark Gagnon?

  That's just my nickname, you know?

• 14:53Speaker 02

  The bad thing is you're saying all this on camera and you're not even going to let me kick you once.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  I mean, you could just do it. He doesn't have to let you.

• 15:02Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  We're gonna get there.

• 15:05Mark Gagnon?

  At the end, at the end.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  We're gonna get there.

• 15:08Mark Gagnon?

  At the end. Look, I will not sue. See? Look, I just said it.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  What's the safer position? Thigh or shin? If he had to take one as a civilian from you?

• 15:17Mark Gagnon?

  I got like tree trunks for thighs, so he might be better.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Well, so like.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  You got bow's eye for thighs.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  I actually walk around all day, just like barely touching my, like my coaches and everybody in my gym. I would do that to you guys if we were friends, but you know, I don't want to do that. We're in a friendship before it starts.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  But yeah, I kick him in the thigh. We don't kick each other in, like, we kick each other in this muscle. Cause what we attack and fight.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  But our friends, we just kick him in the thigh. Give him a dead leg.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Just a little dead leg. All right. Well, maybe we give out, you know, when you, when you are kicking someone in the, in, in the shin or whatever this muscle is right here.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, whatever. What is that? I, I mean, they call it the calf, but it's not the fucking calf.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  The side of the fucking calf, whatever it is. When you, what is the pain level for you when you do it?

• 16:04Speaker 02

  When you kick them?

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  So you don't, you don't understand. When you're fighting, you feel nothing. When those guys snapped their legs, they stepped back like it didn't snap. Cause they don't know what fucking snapped. So if they don't feel their fucking leg snap, I'm not feeling that.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  You don't feel anything. It's too fast to, to feel something. You have to think about it.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  What about between rounds? So you're like, ooh, he got me with a good one or anything like that?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like when I sat down, I was like that, like, you know, you heard me say that was a good body shot.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Cause I was like, you heard it. You can't hear it. You barely hear it faintly. But when he hits me a couple of times, I'm like, he'll hit me. I'm like.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  And like.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  He hit me. When I, when he, when he dropped me, that was like the fourth or fifth one.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. He was just teeing off.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  He teed out, he got me, he didn't tee out, but he.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  He landed two good body shots at the end of the first round.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  When he was doing whatever he wanted with you, like that was, that was pretty crazy.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  He's having his way.

• 17:04Mark Gagnon?

  Was the fact that the fight was outdoors? Did that change anything?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Problem. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Why was that? Why was that weird?

• 17:10Speaker 02

  The humidity.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Cause uh, I looked, all you, all I could do is look at all the information that was possible. The almanac information for the last 10 years, prediction was like 75, 70, 80% humidity. It was like 72 degrees with like a slight breeze. So it felt really nice out there. But in the fight, the humidity was a factor for sure.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  So you guys were sweating more?

• 17:33Speaker 02

  We were, yeah, I lost a lot of.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Water.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Not just, I mean, yeah, like electrolytes. I had nothing, nothing, I mean, sodium, everything. So in between rounds, you know, really got to concentrate, but pretty much leading up to the fight, I would put myself in the sauna before, during and after my workouts to get my body heat as high as I could and, and work out in the environment. Because I did not know what it was going to be like. And there's no replicating like the actual intensity of the fighting environment. So, you know, the, the.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  When you land the big overhand, right? Did you know it was over?

• 18:09Speaker 02

  It wasn't over.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  But did you know it was over for him?

• 18:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Really? So you, you don't have any.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Never. I, I've never had a thought in there. Like I've never been like, I never saw his face. I didn't know. I saw when I hit him with the uppercut, he like reached for his eye and I saw blood. I was like, sweet.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  That was in the first or something like that.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  And that's all I remember like really thinking.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Fight.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Outside that, I sat down in the corner after the fourth round. And I was like, is that the, I was like, was that the third or fourth round? And they're like, wow. I was like, how many rounds are left? And then my coach over my corner is like, it's over, it's over. And I was like, what? And so I didn't even know that he was like compromised like that. I had no idea.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  You couldn't tell in the fourth, he was trying to backing up and.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Well, so I.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  You also put your knee like.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter because dust the point was that position. Did you see Eddie Alvarez's face when he knocked me out?

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been in those situations before where you were dominating someone and then they clipped you.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. It wasn't even, it's just, this floor is so fucking crazy that like it just one second.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  So you're telling me you're looking at the way his face is shaped?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  See, noticed his face was that compromised. I really didn't. Um, the only time I thought something was wrong was like probably coming up, like I hit him.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  And then he's kind of like, he reacts in like a very like weird way. Like his bones were like, he probably, probably felt his like bones shifting in his face.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  And so he was like, kind of like, oh, this, something's not right.

• 19:45Mark Gagnon?

  Caught you a wonder.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  But you mentioned that, that everything goes blank. When you're fighting, it's like, you don't hear anything, you don't notice anything. Right? It's all like instinctual intuitive.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but through preparation.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  You know, and through experiences that I've, if this is, you guys don't, so everyone's like, you know, you fucking fight Armin. I don't know what the fu- I have, I have injuries I had to take care of. I haven't made a decision, but I am thirty-seven years old. My first fight was two thousand eight. I've had forty fights, including my amateur fights, so. I don't know, I don't know.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  So you might not, you might not go again?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Who knows? Who knows?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Now, is this game?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  I don't need to.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Is this game you're doing, like, is this how you get the big payday? Be like, I don't know if I'm coming back?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  This has never been about money for me.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hear that.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  It's about health. How much would they have to pay you?

• 20:41Speaker 01

  To do what you do?

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  I got kids, man. I got kids, bro.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  I want kids.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  There's terrorist threats.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I want kids.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. You've gotta do that already. You got a girl, right?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  You don't?

• 20:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're just out here slinging?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  No, I'm doing, just doing nothing, just going to church, you know?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  That was blasphemy, I'm sorry.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  You can still go to church.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  I don't go to church that often.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  As often as I should.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Well, you, you can get into it, you know, after you go through this little, uh, wearing the belt.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  What are, what are the, what are the DMs looking like now that you got the belt? You don't even look?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Instagram does a terrible job.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Bullshit.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  At filtering.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Bullshit. What about girls?

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Look, show, let me show you, okay? I'm gonna show you what I mean.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  You're not checking no deal.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Let me show you what I mean, though.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  So you just.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  So if you go to request.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  At church all the time.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Look at it.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Searching.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Look at it, it's just so like, it's a.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  One hoe, two hoe.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  I bet you're gonna find ninety-nine of a hundred dudes.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  It is kinda, yo, your DMs is kinda gay. I'm not gonna. It's mad gay.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  What they, what they tag me in, they put me in group messages, instant messages, direct replies, is all in one.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Who's that?

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all in one. They're in there, don't get me wrong, bro.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  But I think who, who has?

• 22:03Speaker 01

  You're not giving them a shot?

• 22:05Speaker 02

  They don't filter. No, but there's no way to filter the, like.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  If there was a filter, say, show me all the messages from girls that are attractive. That's Bruno's job. You just give Bruno the IG and just have him look for the blue checks, trying to hit you.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  I don't want those problems, honestly.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  I don't want those problems. Like, it wasn't supposed to be like this.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  They're problematic.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  We're supposed to talk to our neighbors.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  And.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Until, until this girl's your neighbor.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  We're not supposed to reach out across the water.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  I'm not responding.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  I'm not accepting.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  I'm not accepting, but she's hitting you with Russian, bro.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  I don't know what that says.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no, that's a, that's a psyop, that's a, that's a secret agent.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Alright, just wanna see.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Oh, man, you got a lot, bro.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  And that was, those were the ones that Instagram was like, whoa, okay. Let me see this one right here. Oh, whoa!

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  No! No! Justin! Justin!

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yo, that one was crazy! I saw fingers disappear.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  That's someone's daughter.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  That's not your fault. They gotta handle that.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  I didn't ask for it, I didn't look for it. I did not reply.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  You didn't even reply. Should we look, though, out of respect? She put effort into that video, it's hard to hold a phone and also.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  She just sent a straight video?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  There's like cameras everywhere, probably.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, we don't have any cameras on this side.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Don't worry. This is, bro, you all right, what do you think, I set up a camera to look at your DMs?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Now, he's in the.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Nah!

• 23:37Speaker 01

  No! This is crazy. Justin! Listen.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  That's just a straight DM, just, yo, check it out.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  No, that was just some guys in a gym, bro, do you see? Jack.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, strong.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Diesel.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were, they were going after it, man. To so.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  It's all cardio.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  So you want kids, but you're trying to stay away from the ladies, you know?

• 23:57Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I'm not trying to stay away from the ladies, but like, I don't think finding my wife on Instagram, which is.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  You're not gonna find your wife on Instagram. But when you see some girls like that.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Do you go to church more?

• 24:06Speaker 01

  There's nice people on Instagram. Those girls look nice.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know if those are, I don't know if those are mother material.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I'm just saying, some dude magic tricks makes fingers disappear, like.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Whatever you showed me right there, and I, I don't really have a great memory of it, but whatever you showed me right there, I feel like it's something just worth entertaining. Just the way that they, that. It was almost jujitsu.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  I'm busy.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  He's busy, bro, th- these are dream killers, this guy's locked down.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  How much time does that take, though?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Because you got the belt, bro, you achieved everything.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Well, between twenty seconds and four minutes, huh?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  But you got two to satisfy. There's two to satisfy.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  It's like, I'm going one round. That's double the time.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  No?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  That's not how it works.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  You got, it's that four minute, you're not even lasting one round?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  TMB.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  TM.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I mean, I can go, I'm a championship fighter.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, where's your cardio?

• 24:59Speaker 02

  Championship rounds.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  So you need one minute break in between?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Don't you worry.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  That's for the competitiveness.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Championship rounds is where I, I thrive.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Really? Okay, fair enough, fair enough. You just need to put an octagon around your bedroom and just turn that into, you know, make it happen. Then you can change fighting to. I don't want him to get like a PSD, PTSD.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  That's a bad move, yeah. And like.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Everyone says PTSD, I'm like, amazing dreams, like, what?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  If that's PTSD, then give it to me. I love what I do.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  No, you do, those girls that are gonna be in that bed with you, that you think is a ring.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no, I would never. I'm a lover.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  I'm only mean twice a year.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I'm only mean twice a year.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's good, that's good, you compartmentalize your meanness. So you do wanna settle down, you wanna, you wanna have a family, you wanna do the right thing.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  I do, I don't know what the fuck I want right now.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  But they're gonna offer you a fat check to fight Armin, and everybody in the world's gonna wanna see you fight.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  That's never gonna stop, though.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Hmm, one day it might.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Oh, really? Yeah, like, when I'm, what?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  One day it might.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  When I lose all my faculties, yeah, I don't think they'll want to see me.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Man, why would you lose all your faculties?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Uh, do you know what we do?

• 26:27Speaker 01

  There are fighters that got their faculties, DC got his faculties?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  DC didn't go too long.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  But he went with big guys, dude.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  He's also a big, big guy.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  He is a big guy. And a great golfer.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Are we gonna disrespect DC on this podcast right here?

• 26:45Speaker 02

  You know, I'll play him, you put him on your team and I'll pick my teammate and let's play.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  So I get DC.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  You're saying that he's a good golfer.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're saying he's the best golfer in the UFC.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Wouldn't you want a good golfer on your team?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'd want the best. I think if it was nine holes, I think what happens to him, the back nine, his back starts hacked up. I think the front nine, I think the front nine, he smokes you.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  You do a link course.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  He's really good for four to six holes, just never know where they fall. Somewhere in the eighteen, but he's gonna be good for.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  So what, why don't we take best six of DC versus best six for you?

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Yeah? But who are you gonna take as a partner? Give me anyone.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  I'll scramble, how, what is your handicap?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  More as mental for me, is mostly.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  I think you should do a two, two V one.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  They scramble versus me.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  I'm a horrible golfer, I went to public school.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  He's never golfed in his life.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  I've golfed like three times.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  I'm putting the money on you.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you actually try.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  So let's just say that, he's so bad that if he had you, well, I guess.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it makes it worse. But I think the winner.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  If he had two of him.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  And I, then they both hit their both best shots.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  And played me, then I would still beat him.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  You'd still beat us?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Okay, and if you win, then you have to entertain those, those girls that, we're sending you stuff. And if we win, you have to entertain those girls.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  I like, I like it, I like it.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Alright, guys, as you know, we're back in the lab this fall, getting the hour ready. Uh, this weekend will be at, uh, Levity Live up in Nyack. Thank you guys for selling out the shows. Then October twenty-third and twenty-fourth will be in Indianapolis, Indiana. Then November sixth and seventh will be in Birmingham, Alabama. Then we're gonna be November thirteen, fourteen at Cleveland, thank you guys for selling those out. Then December fourth and fifth at Raleigh, thank you for selling those out. And then we'll be the seventh, eleventh, and twelfth in, uh, Columbus, Ohio. We will see you guys there. Thank you so much, dandeshoals.com for tickets. I'm also on the road, great news, Plano, Texas in October, Chandler, Arizona in October, and then November, we're going to Pasadena, California, San Diego. And in December, I'm going to Detroit.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  And January, Salt Lake City, I will see you guys all there, thanks so much for coming out. Since you've been like a famous fighter, has anybody ever had a confrontation with you? Or are you too famous where people don't know that now? Or people avoid that now?

• 29:12Speaker 02

  So it takes two to tango, I just avoid conflict. My number one rule is avoid conflict.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Really?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'll be wrong on purpose.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  So, but you don't seem.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  I have no ego.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Really?

• 29:24Speaker 02

  I don't need to prove myself.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  So somebody's like chatting shit at a bar, just being like annoying, and you'll be like, okay, dude, this one.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  If somebody, the only, so like, I don't go to bars, like, I don't really go into, I don't put myself in those settings.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  So that those things can't happen.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  But the only time I would do, like, I really think that I would just walk away.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  And not engage, avoid conflict, but if someone was being disrespectful to like, somebody that's weaker than themselves and can't protect themselves.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  He would step.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Then, then I would, yeah, so then, so that's why I don't go to public places, so that that doesn't happen, because then I will have to.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  And.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't ever wanna kill somebody on accident, so.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  No, that's good. Uh, where does this discipline come in?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Unless he said on accident.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Like, when, what, like, you have this like insane discipline? And like, I think now people get it, I think like earlier in your career, they saw you out there and they thought it was just all wild man antics, and they didn't know that there was, you know, strategy behind it, but like, this discipline starts young?

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  You know, like, you're an all-American wrestler, you don't do that just by like having freakish athletic ability.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so my parents, I mean, I was terrified of my parents from day one.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Wait, why?

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Because they were such good parents, and when I messed up, I got disciplined.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  But like, you didn't wanna let them down?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't wanna let them down, and then I was also scared of like, the, you know, being, uh, disciplined.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Like, what, that it'd be you out or send you to your room, or just like?

• 30:53Speaker 02

  I've definitely got the belt before, I've never got spanked and didn't deserve it, every time I got spanked, I deserved it.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  But yeah, I was, you know, but my parents were such good parents, they were such great examples, so I did never wanna disappoint them.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Did you get the, did you get the chongletta from your mom? Like, how Mexican is your?

• 31:09Speaker 02

  The chongletta came from my non-lupé. Too bad you didn't.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Hold on, can I pick up with Dustin?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Justin.

• 31:19Speaker 05

  What's up?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up? It's Andrew Schulz. Justin's on a podcast right now. He told me that you, you're the only golfer in the UFC that might be able to beat him, and he didn't even phrase it like that.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Might be able to beat him. I mean, I might be able to.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  He's, he's. What's up, my boy? But we're talking about, he said you're the only one that he respects as a golfer in the UFC.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  Oh, he's got to, because we've been there, we've crossed that bridge before.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  I did say that.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  But the feeling, the feeling is mutual, because the guy is good.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  He is good, he's nice, he's not just chatting shit?

• 31:52Speaker 05

  No, he's very good. It's impressive.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  And he's gotten better?

• 31:55Speaker 05

  This is, this is the thing about it, man. Look at what the guy does for a living. Look at what we do for a living. It's like, his ability to lock in, and if he cares about something, enjoys it, the guy's.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  If I want your money, I'm.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he told me, like, since he lost to Hunter, him and Hunter played, and I think Hunter.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Like, four years ago.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  It was like, yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Like, four years ago, before I golfed.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  It was four years ago, but it was for, basically, 50% of his paycheck.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  That was before I got knocked out by Max Holloway.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, everything changed after that.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  When I, when I got knocked out by Max Holloway, I woke up a golfer.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  Like, 280 out of the days of the year?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Is that how you go it? I golfed 300 days that year.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ. All right, Dustin, we're gonna get back to this pod. I'll hit you up after. Peace, my brother.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  I had to commemorate UFC 300 one way or another.

• 32:45Mark Gagnon?

  He's asking if you want to play a round tomorrow?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Uh, I think so.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  All right, we're gonna set this up after.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I'll call you later.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 32:54Mark Gagnon?

  Not a tough sell. He's like, yeah, I'll play whatever.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  You're playing 300?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Well, I think I already am playing tomorrow, which I think is a problem.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Is there any, like, golf injury that affects training?

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Uh, golfer's elbow.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  I have got it. That year that I got knocked out by Max Holloway, I woke up a golfer. Golfed 300 days that year. Or, you know, that calendar year after that.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  And, yeah, it was crazy. Crazy. I didn't think it was possible, but.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  You, I remember you said once that, after the knockout, you said, "I can't ever let my parents see me like that again." You have this, it's something I kind of relate to, like, I'm very grateful for my parents, and I remember even as a kid, like, wanting, just not wanting, like, if I did something bad, I felt guilty that they would feel like they raised me poorly, that I didn't do a good job to honor them or some shit.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  My parents led by example, and so, yeah, same.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, like, but that being your first reaction, like, I can't let my folks, so it's never about, like, what the public will think of me, or what my ego needs to be satisfied, it's?

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, yeah, never. I've never, never thought or cared.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  I kind of, I want people to, you know,

• 34:08Speaker 02

  like to watch, you know, perform. I love entertaining people, I love showing off. I understand this is an entertaining business. I really enjoy fighting people.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  But none of that matters. None of that, none of that means, you know, I appreciate it, but it's not like I think about that before I go to bed at night, like what people will think about me. Most people are scared when they fight of being, like, embarrassed. But I, you know, became, when I came, I said, "I'm gonna get knocked out." And so I've never felt shame. Like, I never once felt shame after the Max Holloway fight.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Interesting. There wasn't, like, there wasn't ever concern or embarrassment, or it's like, is this gonna be my last fight? Nothing like that?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  No, I said, "I've done this to 20 people, it was bound to happen."

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like going in with that expectation. It's kind of even bringing it back to the Ilya thing, like, Ilya had probably never processed that that might happen to him. And in real time, you're imposing your will on him however you want, and he's having to come to grips with that. And you go into every fight going, "Yeah, I might get knocked out."

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, this fucking sucks. I'm so hard, this guy's so good.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Not hard, but like, I love the fact that he's hard is good, but he's so tough, he's so dangerous, you know, I'm in danger.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like a respect that you have.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but then your body, like, when you're really in danger, your body does do special things, like, when you're in a real life and death situation. It's like you, you know, you're getting in a car crash, and you're like, "I'm invincible." And so, you know, you, no, the fear is real, the death is real, the danger is real, and so you go, adrenaline pumps, releases, there's a whole fucking system in our body when danger is real and you're in real danger. And so, yeah, he

• 36:03Speaker 02

  masks that, the danger, so then he's so, like, there, and like, aware of what's actually happening. Me, I convince myself that I, like, it's, I'm gonna die, and so then, like, when it starts, it's like a tunnel, and then it's like, it's just over.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Laser-focused.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, just locked in.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  I almost, I almost drowned once. I was, I was, like, surfing, and like, the leash wrapped around some reef, and I couldn't get back up to the surface. And weirdly, in that moment, where, like, I couldn't get up, it, there was the initial panic of not getting up, and then came the kind of, like, laser-focused, like, okay,

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Figure it out.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  You have a very small amount of time to figure this out. And I remembered something a guy told me, like, months before, it was like crazy, all these things were happening, but it wasn't panic. It was panic first.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  The, the initial fear of, can I not get up? Am I gonna die? Followed by very extreme kind of calm. And I imagine, like, if that didn't work out, maybe then you go to panic and then you die. But there was a window where, like, and is that happening to you in a fight where, like, you're in a tough situation?

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Well, that, the tough situation is the fight.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  So the whole time you're in that state?

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  So it doesn't vacillate if you get hit by a big shot, or it doesn't vacillate if you get wobbled?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  Never has. Never has.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  So that's why I'm saying, I, I don't have retention, there's no retention of information, because I'm in that.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  You're in that survival state.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  I'm so cerebral that I don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm just, I've, I've trained my body and my mind since I was a child to, like, be comfortable in these situations. Obviously, the panic, you know, in the first few fights, as an amateur, did the panic.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  You know, stage came, but now that, that stage isn't there, but it's just, you know, this is coming, prepare yourself, you know, um, prepare your cardiovascular system, prepare your nervous system, and then trust everything, and gamble, gamble on yourself.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  And gamble on yourself.

• 38:09Mark Gagnon?

  Do you get into that focused state the moment the bell rings, or the moment you take your first shot? Like, does your body need to, like, feel something?

• 38:16Speaker 02

  No, no, it's just as soon as the fight starts. But it's, but it's, it's also a process, like, this is something that I, that I'm, you know, convincing myself of every day for, like, eight weeks, you know, that I'm in danger.

• 38:31Mark Gagnon?

  When you're training, does your body get into that same state?

• 38:35Speaker 02

  So when I'm training, my body, uh, my mind is able to push through because I know what's coming.

• 38:45Mark Gagnon?

  And you know you're not in so much danger.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  And, but the danger's not real, so like, I'm not, like, going to, like, a special place.

• 38:50Mark Gagnon?

  Gotcha, okay.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  There, because I don't need to. And in sparring, I would never allow myself to, because my job, my number one goal in sparring is to never hurt my partners. And to expand my, yeah, I don't wanna, I've never, I've only, I've only ever knocked one person out in sparring.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  But you pay them to try to hurt you. You reward them.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  With, uh, body shots. I try to hurt their body all the time.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Okay, so that's.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  I'm talking about, I'm talking about TBIs.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Unconscious, yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  TBIs is all that we're ever really talking about.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Nothing else is chronic, except TBIs.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  TBIs.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Traumatic brain injury.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Got it, got it, got it, got it. So what you're saying is, are you pulling back punches a little bit in sparring, or you just, if you catch somebody good, you're kind of like?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  So it's crazy how powerful the mind is and, like, how, how, um, how big of a variable intentions are. And so, like, my intentions in sparring is to, like, expand my cardiovascular system, like, work on timing, work on angles, and do not hurt them. And so, like, when I throw a kick and it gets here, I'm, yeah, I'm stopping it.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Oh, you're pulling back.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  But I'm not like, I'm not like hitting him softly, I'm just, like, stopping it.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  You know, my body's doing that because my intentions are not to hurt them. And in a fight, my intentions are to hurt them, so then it doesn't stop.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Right, and that switch is very easy to flip on.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  What? It's, it's, uh, the product of the circumstances, like, that is the environment.

• 40:12Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, you said one of the issues against Max was that you didn't feel like it was life or death in the same way, which is so interesting to me. So, like, going up against Max, you were like, you said you were, like, aware of the surroundings, like, you were aware of things you're not normally aware of.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  It was the, again, it's like the lead up, the, I was like, this is gonna be, this is gonna be awesome, you know, UFC 300, it's a special event.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  But really, no repercussions on my talent tensions or, you know, implications.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  So you didn't think the stakes were high enough?

• 40:46Speaker 02

  I thought it was for like, like, so when I say an exhibition, I mean, like when it comes to like, rankings and like.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  It's not going to impact where you are and if you're gonna get a title next, but a big huge knockout over, you know.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't think that was gonna happen.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Obviously, but I'm saying if you got it, it would be great for you.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Well, I was already gonna get the title shot. So yeah, of course I would have then still. I never thought about losing. I never thought about losing, but I also didn't think it would be so detrimental if I lost.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  But I also didn't think I would lose, which is the only time I've ever thought that.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was weird.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  How do you put yourself into the life or death when doing things that aren't life or death? Like when you're golfing, like, do you still put yourself in that mindset of like?

• 41:31Speaker 02

  No, so that, so then what, that's like, um, so like emotions, emotions can only hurt you in moments of like pressure. You know, they can't, they're never gonna like really help you unless it's like, you know, very like last case scenario. I'm on empty and I need some kind of inspiration. So like I'll think of my kids or my family. You know, but outside that, it's like, all I can control is, you know, my aim, my swing, you know, pinching my, pinching my arms, having my grip right, following it through and after I touch it, I can't change nothing. I hit it and then I'll, I'll never think about it again.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  And like, so it's just like focus on, yeah, good, it doesn't matter because I can't change it. I've already done it. The act is, the deed is done. And so then in fighting, you learn that once you make a mistake, you know, it's too detrimental, you take too big of a shot, it's over. Can't make that mistake ever again. So that's like, I'm not gonna, you know, that's the, the choices you, you learn from.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  But how can you turn off the emotions with fighting, especially with like the trash talking leading up to the fight? And the fact that you have to put yourself in a mindset where it's like, I want to kill this person. How do you remove emotions?

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Well, I say they want, I, they want to kill me. So then naturally.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  That's more motivation.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Well, they want to kill me. So then naturally, so I don't want to hurt somebody. Like I don't want to hurt people. I, I, human services is my social work. That's what I was gonna do. Like I'd never have enjoyed hurting you. I don't want to hurt people. But what I do is not hurt people. Like this is a competition. I am competitive.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  I've seen some of their faces. It looks like.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  But they're trying to do that to me. And so if they could press a button and trade spots with me, then they would. So, so fuck them, you know?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  So this is the game that I chose to play.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  But then how do you turn off the emotions?

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Well, it's not emotional. So I just do it. I just enjoy doing it.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  When you're dapping somebody up after a round.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Like, is this, have you completely compartmentalized the fact that this person's trying to kill you at the end of that round?

• 43:41Speaker 02

  Like after the round we go.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Just like that. Is it, is it, so at the end of that round?

• 43:45Speaker 02

  No, good job.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Thank you for trying, thank you for doing your best.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  For bringing the most out of me.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  For not bitching out.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  And how do you do it now when you're in sparring and you're a famous MMA fighter and some of the guys sparring you probably have looked up to you, maybe since they're a kid? I, they're probably guys that want to prove themselves, but there are other guys that are probably like, man, I don't, I don't want to disrespect them by going too hard. Like, how do you get them to, to really go?

• 44:11Speaker 02

  So I offer them a thousand dollars if they can drop me at the body shot.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  And then they get to pick the intensity.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  So you let them kick the intensity and then you'll match it?

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Match it. And then I'm, but, but, or if they, if they're being a bitch and not

• 44:25Speaker 01

  You'll.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  going there, then I, but I'm, I'm always trying to touch your bodies and your legs. So I'll kick their leg really hard.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Really?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then if they don't kick me back harder, then I'll kick them harder.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Is there like, is there?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Cause then, cause if you're not, cause if I can't bring that out of you, then you shouldn't, you need to go get a job right now.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Exactly. Cause you're not gonna be, it's not gonna be helpful for you for training.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like how can you even ever come to this? How did you ever be here?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  But is there a version where like a kid is looking at you and you're like, they're like, this is my favorite fighter. This is somebody that I've looked up to for the last fucking 10 years. I'm actually a little nervous to be in a ring with him and I, and I want to show him some respect, even though I do want to prove to him that I could really fight. Is there ever a kid where you gotta be like, hey, I know you're fucking talented. Can you let it go in there? I can handle myself like.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Um.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Or guys in this game not, not like that?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Usually I would, I would again use, I would try to push them there through the, through the round.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  You know, I would, I wouldn't beat them up, but I would like pull on their head. I would try to touch their liver. I'd kick their leg.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  You know, I'd be pushing, like bullying them.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  To get them to a point where like they gotta show up?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  I'd be like, dude, come on, what the fuck are you doing here? Like, I'm a bitch. You know, like I need, and then I would, and then I would never go with him again. But I, so like my, my, my, my environment now is very controlled. Always.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  By your coach?

• 45:44Speaker 02

  By me and my coach. Yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Like I only spar with people I know that are gonna push me.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  And try to beat me up pretty much. And then I have fresh guys coming in.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  You know, all the time. When I'm closer to fights, right now, no, because I'm not in shape enough to, to do that.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  No, but when you're in camp.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Is, you think there's anybody that actually like blends all the aspects of MMA in their striking like you do?

• 46:07Speaker 02

  I mean, it's hard to say that and not say anything about this and not sound conceited.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  You're the champ, bro. You're not even being conceited. It's like, there's factual evidence that you're the best.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  That, like my coach, the way he, the way he teaches, the way that I, I learn.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Is so foreign to like what people imagine this sport is.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  How so?

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Like, hmm, like I don't think about the violence or the physicalness. It's like about like controlling feet and creating angles and controlling distance. And constantly doing like line drills and feet work and foot drills. And that's how my coach teaches and that's how I've learned to fight. And then the ferocity needs to be natural. You know, luckily I have like dense bones, but it's like, I'm an athlete. So I need to like be an athlete in there. And it's like faking someone out like one way is the same as a football juke. Like sometimes it's all, it's all just about being an athlete. And so I was like an incredible athlete, you know, and my coach is so good at

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Coaching that.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  And so my technique is like so chaotic. But it's so controlled. Like it's all, there's, it's all controlled.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I don't even think it's that chaotic. I remember earlier fights where I thought it was chaotic, but especially in the last one. Everything felt very methodical. And I think there's a difference between like banging and being chaotic. There are certain guys where, and there are moments in the fight where you both just kind of like sit down, bite on the mouth guard and like swing.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  There was two, two of those.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  I saw, I saw, yeah. But like, I don't know, there was this thing that I kept seeing you doing. I was telling you before, but like incorporating wrestling feints in the striking. And incorporating like, and then DC was calling it out in the fight. But, and I've seen some wrestling guys, like maybe like fake for a single or something like that.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Just did it. I'm just got a big knockout.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I mean, it was, that was huge.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Great.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  What do you mean by using a wrestling feint? So you could speak to it more like.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like whenever I attack your legs, obviously first line defense is head, hands, hips. So when I attack your legs, you're gonna, you know, go like this. And that's allowing for the, for that allows me, for me, I was getting to the collar tie. And then they go hips out. So then that opens up space right through here. And that's where the uppercut is. Being super effective. And then once the uppercut's effective, then they're gonna obviously pull away from it. So it's, then you just come over the top with it. But it's the same, same movement. And it's all the same mechanics as throwing a ball. I was a pitcher. I was a quarterback and I just punching is throwing a ball. It's the same mechanics. Um, now it's just about weight distribution.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  What do you mean? I mean, not if you're throwing a straight right. Maybe if you're, if you're looping it.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Same thing. Same thing. It's like the same, it comes from the ground.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Oh, the hip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  It's the, it's the mechanics.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Especially like a football.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Same thing. Yeah. That's an overhand right. Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, interesting.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  But a baseball of straight right.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's just like.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Cause it's baseball, the straight right is like this.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Boom, turning it over. Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's not like this.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  It's coming.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially the way that.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Coke, you have a beer, like a beer mug. Here's like never, never spilling the beer.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Boom.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  There was something I saw you say where like you specifically were throwing punches to tear skin.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  To peel their face open.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Peel their face open.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  How?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  So you're actually trying to.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  But I'm not, I mean, I'm trying to fucking cause damage.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Trying to, so I'm trying to cause centrifugal force.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  The only way to shut someone's lights off is to cause a shake. It's not blunt force. Like it's really hard to like hit you and you take it square and you're not gonna go to sleep. It has to be some kind of shake. Like when Umar got hit the other day, he got hit in the neck and it's, you know, it's this shake here.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was a freak knockout.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're all freak knockouts. Cause it's like golf. You swing the same time. One time it goes 300, every, you know, every other time it goes 200. It's the same fucking swing.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Sometimes they go to sleep. Most time they don't.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Doesn't make sense.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  How much talking is happening? Like you and the opponent, like for Elliot, for example, are you guys talking?

• 50:30Speaker 02

  No, I didn't say one word.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Was he saying anything to you?

• 50:33Speaker 02

  I don't, I wouldn't hear it. Yeah, I wouldn't hear it. I wouldn't recognize it. Cause I have no thoughts. So like you would have to, if, if I heard something, like I'll intuitively hear my coach. Cause he's at every single one of my sparring sessions and he's always saying the same things, the same trigger words. And I'm intuitively reacting to those things. If you watch the fight, it's, it's pretty much like he has a control on his hand.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like it's kind of crazy.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Are you throwing what he's asking you to throw in real time?

• 51:05Speaker 02

  It's again.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Or you guys are so long.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Teach how to throw things. It's about position. It's like back foot. So when he says back foot, that means like he's doing it. He's, whenever I give him a feint, he's going here. And then when he goes here, that's when I need to jab him. Or when his back foot comes here is when I need to jab him.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Why is that? Because he can't move out of that position?

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Can't be lateral here. You know, he has to, he has to reset. Once he's on his back foot. And once he's here, he has to reset to here.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  So he's calling out feet positions that are Elliot's or the opponent?

• 51:37Speaker 02

  That he's doing.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  And you're reacting, you already know the natural reactions.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  And I, then I see it and then I'm like, oh, boom.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Holy shit. But you're not listening and like interpreting. It's just like going through your muscles.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  I'm just hearing, I've just heard back foot.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Bang.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  And I didn't even know I heard it, but then I'm like, there it is. Boom.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Is there ever a time where he calls some shit, you do? Then you get hit and you look at him like.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  No, no, I've never, I've never heard him. Like, I've never heard him.

• 52:03Mark Gagnon?

  It's almost like telepathy.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  You're both processing the same information at the same time.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Every single sparring session, like hundreds and hundreds of them, he has been there watching me. He's been making the same adjustments, like intuitively. And it's through like one word, one or two words, like in their triggers.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  And it's very specific positions and like, um, like crash. Crash would mean do not go backwards at all, do not retreat. You know, worst case scenario, put your head through his head or through his chest.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  That would be like, like he's pushing you backwards, you're retreating too much.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  And it's actually safer to jam your head in his chest than allow him to continue to dictate pace forward.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to create, so again, physics, like it's two objects. You know, if they have the same mass, same weight, it's the one with the most force. And the one moving forward is going to have the most force. And if you're trying to retreat away from something, you have zero force.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Moving in that direction. And so there's no way to, to match that force. And so you have to go forward. And that's why I say the champ is move forward. For one, it's, it's making that, it's dictating the pace.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Is, you know, you're, they're either going to, to stand there and fight. And then you can, you know, take advantage of angles and like those half shots to uppercuts.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Or they're going to retreat and retreat and retreat and retreat and they're going to get tired.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  There looked like something in this where like, it looked like he was timing your jab and it looked like you fake stepped into a jab. Like it looks like, I don't know how to describe it. I've seen people faint, but it looked like you fainted with your foot and then delayed through it.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Was that the one two, the one I hit him hard?

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, no, not, not the one later. This was like in the first round, it looked. It looked like he was timing your jab with like an overhand right. And then I don't even know if this is the version of it, but it looks like you like, yeah, he started, he started kind of.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, then once he goes, I just leave it there.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  It's to create distance and make it harder for him.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Can't get over the shoulder.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  And so that was my, that's why I'm moving left, cause I'm, so everyone runs away from his right hand, cause they're terrified. And he's so pointed that he can take off sprinting to his left at any moment with like one step. You know, it's just left to go right, to go that way, he has to use both feet.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. So you, so moving one or two inches to the, to the left is going to have him reset completely.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  And he can't throw, he can't get, he can't hit me square. And I'm getting him into a square position.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Square. Left.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  And that, I mean, and yeah, good shot, but I mean, not rolling with it. You know, Bruce Lee said, be like water, like you're so loose, it's so weird.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  You feel like a lot of those weren't landing as.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  They weren't.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  They're connecting technically, but you're moving and taking the force away.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  It was like this.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Instead of like, he's taking it like square.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Straight on, yeah.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's straight lines of energy, you know, my, I'm trying to create, to dissipate the straight line of energy, not through my body. I'm trying to send it straight lines through his legs, through his, through his body and through his.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  You see this with a lot of like, uh, great defensive boxers, especially guys who use like the Philly shell, where they kind of like would roll with everything. And, uh.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Boxing is great. Here at Stages, cause we kick each other in the head.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 55:40Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, would you ever do any of that celebrity boxing stuff?

• 55:44Speaker 02

  Well, I hope I never have to do any of that.

• 55:46Mark Gagnon?

  Not, I'm just saying later in your career.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  I, I hope not.

• 55:50Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't want to, I don't, when I'm done, I'm done. This, boxing is more dangerous than what I do.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  You think?

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  The repeated punishment?

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  I've seen that. I've heard that argument. I mean, people have died in MMA too.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Not true.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Not true.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Someone died in Ireland.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Look up the circumstances.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Oh, there was something else?

• 56:12Speaker 02

  I don't know. Look, I'm saying, look up the circumstances, cause I don't think it happened because of the fight. Like it could have been a predis, like predisposed medical condition.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Got it. There was exposing the fight.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  But it wasn't like damage to the brain.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  God.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  It wasn't swelling to the brain. It wasn't a TBI that caused the death.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Or it wasn't a strike to the body either.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Also the idea with boxing where they, they let you get back up. Usually if you're concussed.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Again, you get knocked down in round two, you know, and who knows if, how bad or severe the TBI is. We are already warriors. We're going to choose fight every time it's in a fight. So we just naturally get back up. Then, you know, you go round three, round four, round five, and just take kind of like somewhat concussive blows, but not necessarily. Then you get dropped again in round six.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Um, so the swelling or bleeding that should have happened or whatever is getting exasperated upon the whole time.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  And then they, they just go sleep. They don't even, it's not even, you've seen it. They just go sleep. They're like. They go to sleep, they just don't wake up.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  It's like they're in pain or scared, you know, it's crazy.

• 57:21Mark Gagnon?

  But that was if you were fighting like real boxers, but if you find somebody like Jake Paul, like you don't think you could take him?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, so he's a two, that's a, that's a 220 pound man.

• 57:32Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but it's.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  He could, he could throw.

• 57:34Mark Gagnon?

  It's Jake Paul.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Oh, Jake Paul's an athlete. Jake Paul can box.

• 57:39Mark Gagnon?

  Wow. So you say you can't take him?

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Who knows?

• 57:42Mark Gagnon?

  Sounds like you say you can't take him.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  In boxing?

• 57:45Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but think he does, you know?

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Boxing's not real fighting.

• 57:48Mark Gagnon?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Wait, it's not real fighting?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  No. How is it real fighting if you're limiting them to what they can do and you?

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Well, there are limitations in MMA.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Well, I can't do a stomp on your dick or gouge your eyes.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Which is an effective thing in a real fight?

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess. So like, yeah, in a street fight, I would kill him.

• 58:06Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, I'm talking about the little, the little.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  The little pretty fat boxer. Go pee, go pee. All right, guys, take a break for a second. Can we be honest? Dog food is one of those things nobody ever questions. You just grab the bag, pour it in the bowl and assume it's good. And then one day actually read the ingredients and it sounds like you're studying for a chemistry final. That's why we like Sundays for dogs. It was created by veterinarian Dr. Tori Waxman because she wanted to feed dogs actual food. What a crazy concept. Sunday starts with 80% all natural meat. Then they add real superfoods like kale, ginger, blueberries. It's also gently air dried, so it actually looks like real food. They also just dropped a brand new fish recipe.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  It made, it's made with 80% whole and minced fish loaded with omega threes to help support healthy skin, a shiny coat joints and brain function. And the best part, no fridge, no freezer, no prep, just scoop it and serve it. Make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to sundaysfordogs.com/flagrant and get 50% off your first order. Or you can use the code flagrant at checkout. That's 50% off your first order at sundaysfordogs.com/flagrant. Also, you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the tee you somehow always reach for first? Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. And that's what Quince does best. Okay?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Quince focuses on premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and merino wool. Their styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for every single day. Their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at 60 bucks. You're not going to get that anywhere else. It gives you the softness, the quality that you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And when the temperature starts to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear. Everyday at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories, so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. The merino crew neck and linen pants from Quince are the real deal. Okay? I think you should check it out. Impress your girl, go on a date.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Do all the right things. And by the way, it's not just clothing. Quince brings the same approach to everything they make from high quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture. They make well-designed pieces for everyday living. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, just let them know it was flagrant. It's the best way to support the show. Now let's get back to the show. All right, before we get back into this, um, our boy Volk, Street Fighter alum Volk.

• 1:00:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Street Fighter alum, he's playing Joe in the movie. Our boy Volk is fighting again. He's fighting Evluv.

• 1:01:08Mark Gagnon?

  That's sick. He's in the movie. Was he on set with you?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:11Mark Gagnon?

  You guys were chilling?

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ash was there and everything.

• 1:01:13Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, that's sick.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Mark Gagnon?

  That's dope.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was sick. He's just a man. We did a, like a whole, uh, we watched the fight at this bar. Like I did this little thing at this bar where everybody came and he cooked.

• 1:01:24Mark Gagnon?

  But he actually cooked?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause you know, he does cooking with Volk.

• 1:01:27Mark Gagnon?

  I love that he's actually about the cooking.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Oh, he is, he lives on like a, like a ranch where he can like hunt animals. He's got a video of him like making steak and then he sees a deer and they're like, let's go get it. Like.

• 1:01:36Mark Gagnon?

  That's fire.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's just a fucking man. Um.

• 1:01:41Mark Gagnon?

  Well, he's going up against an undefeated Ebloev.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's Volk, man. It's Volk.

• 1:01:47Mark Gagnon?

  That's true.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Got it. I think Volk got it.

• 1:01:49Mark Gagnon?

  Well, he's the favorite on Kelsey right now.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. What is the, what does Kelsey have on Matt?

• 1:01:52Mark Gagnon?

  Got him a 57% chance.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:01:56Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, they got him. And then, uh, Eblo is 45 and then John Silva is at 3%.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Did you see him pull out any moves?

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  Street Fighter, maybe some new shit. Oh, a Hadouken?

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Nah, I don't wanna give anything away.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Not trying to give nothing away, man.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  So I'm saying, no.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Not trying to give, no, nothing away.

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  Smart.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  October sixteenth, um, but no, he's, he crushed it. He was like, he was actually like funny in it, like his, uh, I don't wanna give it away, but he was, you know, he was, we were, you know, they're basically like, live up the bogan, like go bogan, go full bogan in it. And he went bogan.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  Was it hard for him to do? He had to really dig deep?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  I thought, I think they thought it was hard. I had told them before, I was like, dude, he did this comedy sketch where he like pretends to be an old man. And he's like a good actor.

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  I sent them, I was like, he's, he's funny, like, he, he knows how to act. And like, he was doing shit that they weren't even asking, like, he's like flirting with the girls that are in the stands as he walks in for his fight. And like saying funny things to them. And I was like, oh shit, you.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Fire.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Most people when they go and said they're like, uh, what should I do? Tell me what to do and I'll do it. And he's just walking, hey there darling, just.

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  That's probably what's going on in his head before a fight anyway.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  And now he doesn't have to actually.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  And now he gets the chance to actually do it.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a fucking man.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, shout out Volk. Volk, you got this, my boy. Get this and then you, then we just retire and be an actor.

• 1:03:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  And do food content.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  I'm pulling for Volk, but fighting these guys, like, this guy's another, uh, my guy, Managamedov. Like, I was looking at his middle name and it's like another Dagestani, Chechen name.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, they just sound like a dinosaur or whatever. I think that's what Kurt Metzger said about the Boston Bombers. They sound like. Yeah, they're like, they sound like some dinosaur, whatever. I think that's his joke that I'm butchering. Sorry, Kurt.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  But it's like, in Abu Dhabi, it's not easy. Like, we saw, we've seen a couple of these guys go at it. We saw a Kamara fight.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  I just don't see anybody choking out Volk, so eventually he's gonna be on the feet, so, and I don't know enough about Evol's game, if he can strike. But if, if, if he's gonna be on the feet, then I think, I think Volk's gonna make it happen.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  I hope you're right. I'm pulling for Volk, he's the man.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  We love you Volk.

• 1:04:03Speaker 04

  Volk, got it.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  All right, let's get back to the show.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  How about play poker? Yeah, I, no, I don't. I refuse to play poker.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Because if I'm gonna lose money in a casino, it's not gonna be somebody I can fall into the parking lot and take it back from. It's gonna stay.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Stay there.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  But would you gamble against Bruno in wrestling, for example?

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he knows, yes.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Hey, yeah. But do you got him in wrestling? Just wrestling. It, it's not, I feel like it's not like that. Everybody in the room is like, at the highest level, you know, so you'll, you'll get like, points scored or things like that, but yeah, brother, this dude would fucking kill me. Like, if we had to do a fight. There's gotta be something Bruno can beat you at.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  I don't know what he does.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  I have good wrestling days.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  Gets you way more customers than me.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Gets you more customers?

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  He owns a business, he's a, he's a businessman.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  What's your business? I run a tech company, it's called Hummingbird, so it's a LinkedIn automation, uh, for the financial services industry, so like, financial advisors, uh, like wealth managers, they use our tool. So how'd you connect with, how'd you connect with this guy? Through wrestling, through training.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  So I, we have like an open wrestling practice on Thursday.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  Right, and he would just pop in?

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. He'd come with our, he knows, our, he knows a couple of my teammates.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  So, I mean, now it's been a long time at this point, it's been like.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  Now he's fine, he just here, what, two fights now?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wait, you. I'm an amateur, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Wait, hold on.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  He's got a business, he just, he had his first fight like, what, four months ago?

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  For what?

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  And he had, he had two more, he had two fights in the last.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  What happened? So I got three kids, I gotta be careful. You won't go to the White House?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  This doesn't make sense.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  You know, I did taekwondo, wrestled, jujitsu.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  And it's kinda one of those things, that's how I like see life, that's how I breathe is by like, having that exercise, you know, that discipline, that thing that keeps you on track. So I'm training anyways.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Uh, so it's like, might as well run it out.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  For like two years, three years, he was coming in just to.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  I wish we had a ping pong. I was like the Brazil national champ on the world team. Do you know how to play ping pong?

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  Look where I just hit to this, so these guys are stupid.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Who?

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  At my gym, they all wanna play me in something, so, they don't wanna bet money, so then I'll be like, okay, we're playing sting pong, so every point, you get to kick them. Hit the ball at them.

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  You never played sting pong?

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:06:28Speaker 04

  You gotta take your shirt off and you.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:06:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Nah, bro, that's crazy. That looks like a paintball shot.

• 1:06:35Speaker 04

  Bro, you're doing that with a, it's like smallpox.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Can we put that shit afterwards, we gotta put that on the screen, that's crazy.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so are you good at ping pong?

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  I'm all right.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  I mean, you see the wells, bro, that's a couple of points.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  I'm not great at ping pong.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Not.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  I wouldn't be as confident being in ping pong as say like, cornhole or horseshoes or.

• 1:06:59Speaker 04

  Bocce ball?

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Bocce? I wouldn't be as confident, but I would play it much.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  I just wanna see him lose. I like, I, I, I wanna see what you're like when you're losing at like a recreational activity and I wanna see.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  I'm good, I love to see good things happen to people.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Ain't no way he's this happy when he loses.

• 1:07:20Speaker 04

  You can't be this competitive.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  He's just so aggressive to play the next one. Oh no, he wants another.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, he'll, he'll be like, nah, run it, and you'll probably stay there for. So you won't let, you won't let someone go if they win?

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Will, but I mean, the number one rule in life is you have to give a man a chance to win his money back, so they have to give me at least one chance.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  And then what if the next time you get someone?

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  They, they can leave.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  They can leave?

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  No, no nothing, no attachment?

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  No, next time, next time.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  I don't let anybody control how I think or feel, ever.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Except mom and dad.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Well, they have a lot of influence.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  But they don't get to control it.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  They don't get to control it. Could, could your mom and dad call you like right now and just be like, hey, you've been on the road too many weeks, get back home, we wanna see you?

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  I would just, well, no, no, because for one, I won, we won some like Mexican Heritage Family Award, so I have to go home this week, so I'm going home for my mother.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Um, I get to go home for two days, tomorrow, today, today I get to go home.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Home Wednesday, Thursday, fly there Friday, and then I'm gone. Then I got a family reunion coming up there. Someone went home for that. And then I do a golf tournament in Arizona coming up.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  So I got three trips coming up.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  So you're gonna see him?

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  And then they come up to, my parents come, every fight, they come for one week, about two weeks before the fight they'll come.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Oh, to camp?

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, to my, to my house, stay at my house for a week, we'll do, um, they'll cook for all my coaches and their families.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  And they'll do all my laundry and like kinda help me.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  They're a part of the prep in a way.

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, she comes, my mom comes, like, picks, picks up all the loose change that.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  And that's two weeks out?

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  Two, three weeks out, they'll come for a week.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  And are you still on diet? Or will you eat a little bit that week?

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Well, I'm, no, they, my chef comes and cooks them food too.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  No, but your mom's not throwing down and she's not cooking you stuff from childhood.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  No, no, so like for the party, they'll cook, so we had like, um,

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  we just made beans, rice, and what we do at home is baba khor, so it's like a roast.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  I know, yeah.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, in a roaster.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  Massive amounts, and that's what we did.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  For the party.

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  How much of having a twin brother inspire the competitiveness?

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, all of it, but luckily it comes through my, my, both of my parents are incredibly competitive as well.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  So it just.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  The whole family?

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  How, how were they competitive?

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  They wanna win.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  But like, what were you seeing?

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  They don't wanna, like,

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  like, uh, arguments, neither one, everyone wanted to lose.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Like, it did not matter what it was, it didn't matter, it didn't matter.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Like ping pong, my mom will be playing someone that's like disabled and she'll be fucking.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  She can't go to the left, man.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  Do you play like?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  But she doesn't, she's just competitive, she wants to win.

• 1:10:22Speaker 04

  Like family monopoly night?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Like bowling night, we have to take different cars, cause we're not going, we're not leaving in the same vehicle.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  One team goes in that car, one team goes over there.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  And how is the team usually divided?

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  Random.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  It's just random, so you and your mom, your brother and your dad.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  And my sister.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  And your sister.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  Now I got, um, like a fourteen year old nephew, who's a fucking beast, so he can compete with us in anything now.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh, is he, is the competitiveness passed down?

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  It sucks, cause he's gonna do what I do and I don't want him to do.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Oh, he likes, uh, he likes fighting?

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  None of, this is not ever what I planned on doing, ever, once in my whole life. I was a wrestler.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  I was a wrestler, I went to college, call, uh, wrestling got me to college.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  I was gonna be working in the mines, like everybody else from where I'm from.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  You did for a little bit, I saw that.

• 1:11:12Speaker 02

  For one summer before I left the college.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  They were working you?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, I worked fourteen hour days, seven days a week.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  It was an hour driving, twelve hours of work.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Sixty-eight days straight, and left the college with like eleven thousand dollars. I thought I was rich.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  It was gone fast, I was like, which, which you, how many bitches want Taco Bell?

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  I got it, I got it. And it was going fast, immediately.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. So they grinded you at the mine?

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was the bitch of the crew, uh, but yeah, it was cool.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  Is it true that you, you need to take a day off to rest? Like, you would work like three days.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Sixty, sixty-eight days straight, I took one day.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Fuck.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  And I was like, I have to do.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  And it's a copper mine?

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Copper mine, and I was part of a crew, so in the copper mine, it's twenty-four, seven, three, sixty-five, you know, there's, a lot of people, uh, everybody's on different kind of like, um, schedules. Some people work five and two, eight hour days.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Some people work twelve, most of them work twelve hour days, they usually work fifteen days a month and they're off fifteen days a month.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  So will they stay on the mine?

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  They, they might work three days and they're off one day, then they work five days and they're off three days, and they work three days and they're off seven days.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  Uh, they might work four days, off five days, on five days, off four days.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  It's like being a fireman.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  The town where the mine is, Morenci's where I lived my first four years, my parents both went to school there, every house, every building is owned by the mine, and so you have to work for the mine in order to be able to live in these houses.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  And you rent from the mine, and it's really like five hundred dollars a month probably, back in the day, it was probably like twenty dollars a month when my parents were there.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  So you're almost living rent free.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  You're almost living rent free.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Everything you get from the mine.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  And you, you, you go to the, go to the grocery store, you put it on your, uh, put it on the company number.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  So the whole.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  And they take it out of your check.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  It's like being on an army base almost, where like the whole entire thing, oh wow.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  Exactly that.

• 1:13:06Speaker 04

  Was their new guy hazing? Like, if you were the, the lowest rung on the ladder, did they make you do shit?

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Oh, so what I was getting at is they, so like, there's a, there's a bunch of dump trucks and some people work on, some people work on dump trucks. It's the only way a dump truck is down are they working. When everything's not, when everything's running, they're, you know, sitting there playing cards, you know, bullshitting. I was part of a crew that had a job to tear down a shovel, transport it and rebuild it. So we were like working all day, every day. So my job wasn't necessarily like my dad's where he wasn't working. He was working 12 hours shift, but he might be working four hours one day, eight hours one day, two hours one day.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  You know, he's not putting in like all day, every day.

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  But they grinded you.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  But me, yeah, I was fucking, I'll come on pitch black. It was crazy.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Are there pictures of that? That'd be a little bit.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  There are pictures. I don't know where the rap was.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  That's hilarious.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  My mom probably got them.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wait, all right, so they do the summer and then you're like, I gotta be a division one.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Well, no, I was going to college.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  In August. And so I was like, I'm gonna, I wanna make money before I go to college. So my dad got me a job in the mine.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Before I left. And then, see, like, it's crazy. Like, I used to ask this guy to use his Tapatio.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  And I get your own fucking top, get your own fucking hot sauce.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  I might just fucking hot sauce.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  And now I get it, you know, it's like just bring your own fucking hot sauce, but.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  It just, yeah, I was just, I was 18 years old. They're like, you'll be right back here. I was like, no, I won't.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  Oh, you knew right there, I'm not, I'm not working the mines.

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, well, I didn't know, but I was like, I'm not, I'm gonna do everything I can not to.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Find something else out.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  And your brother never wanted to wrestle or never wanted to do any things?

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  No, he started working in the mines and got married, has four daughters.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  And my sister, she wanted to get married in high school, but my parents made her wait. She got, she got, she graduated high school, got married, had two kids right away. And then now the kids are 14 and 13. And then she went to college at like 24, became a nurse, now she delivers babies all day. She did it the right way, actually, because her kids are gonna be out of the house by the time she's like 39.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  And then she's free.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  And then they're free, yeah.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  So that's probably not the worst way to do it, but all she wanted to do, she was, they were terrible, her and her husband, terrible in school, they just wanted to have kids, so.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  That's what they did.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  And your parents, were they pushing you to go to college? Like, were they like, yo, there's something bigger out here, like?

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  No, no, they were, there was always my dream, like, whatever I wanted, they were like so supportive.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  But that was like the goal from day one. So they never had to convince me that I needed to leave.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  If it wasn't fighting, what do you think you would be doing? I feel like it needs to be high.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I went to school, I don't know. I mean, I think I went to school for human services. I truly don't think, I think I was always gonna be here, so I can't imagine myself being or doing anything else. But like, human services, social work was my plan. I think I probably would have been like a police officer and like on a SWAT team or something like that.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, something with energy.

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  On a SWAT team. Yeah, like something like high intensity and like high risk.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Something like that. I mean, I guess if I never fought and I didn't wrestle and like I didn't have that, you know, ambitions to go to college and like pursue wrestling at a higher level, then I probably would have went to the military.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Was it hard to stay disciplined in college?

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, I haven't always, yeah, I've made a ton, I've made a ton of mistakes.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Uh, thank God, I always like this, I could, this was always coming for some reason. And like, I've been so strong in my faith my whole life. So I knew that there was something like I had to like do. And so even when I like was almost addicted to drugs, I was like, no, like, that's not worth it, like.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Oh, you felt, you felt there was something close there?

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Something bigger, something bigger for, I can't let this become my life because there's something else.

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Was that you having that discussion with yourself?

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  Well, part of it was that and part of it was not ever letting my parents think that they failed.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Hmm, I get that.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  Because.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  What drugs did you don't mind me asking?

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Um, mostly uppers, but then downers.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  They're just like.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, the fun ones, the fun ones that we do in college.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  And so that drug time was only during college? Like, it didn't last at all after?

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  It was a little bit after college and then I had a scare. And then I was like, if I ever, my parents do not deserve this, so like, I'll never touch it again.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. And so did you stop drinking also?

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  I've never been a drinker.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  I drink, I got, I have.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Mexican and German and.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  I don't want kids to like smoke, but I'm a pothead, I smoke weed, so.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Okay. Oh, you just prefer smoking over drinking?

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I prefer, I don't think I'm better than anybody because I don't drink, I'm just a pothead.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Got you, okay.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Helps me eat, sleep, rest, um, helps my mind, you know, stay calm. I think it is the reason why I've never killed somebody, so there's a lot of good things.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  That's a jump.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Mexicans have the best nicknames. Did you have a nickname when you were a kid growing up? Like, did they call you something?

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Guero.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  It's just Guero.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, Guero, Quates.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  What is Quates?

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Twins.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, because we were the twins.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's around town?

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  It's Quates, no, like my, in my family. But around town, like, none of my friends spoke Spanish. They didn't teach any of us Spanish. But my, my grandmother, my nona didn't speak any English. They'd drop me off at her house every morning. I'd be there, you know, all, all day and we would communicate in short sentences and she would feed me and feed me and love me and.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was great.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Is she still with us?

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  No, actually, her and my, my tata, her husband, um, they were married 64 years.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  He died and then she died four days later.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Wow. The amount of stories I've heard with a similar situation.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's like, I'm done, she stopped eating, she's like, I'm out.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  And she died, yeah, it was crazy.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  How long ago is this?

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Uh, probably almost two years now.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Damn. Two, two, three years, yeah.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  So that, okay, so she.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  It was beautiful.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, in a way, it's kind of. That's why my mom was broken, I was like, mom, we go to church every, every day almost, but every Sunday, like, your faith has to play a part here, you have to understand and believe that.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  They're in a beautiful place.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  And they were in a, in a good place here, like, my tata's mind was gone.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  You know, you just sat outside, hummed all day, it's like, I don't wanna be here when I'm like that.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  I was happy for them.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's no good way to go, but if you are gonna go.

• 1:20:12Speaker 02

  We're all gonna go, yeah.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. All right, guys, let's take a break for a second. Look, most guys know the moment they cast themselves in a mirror and have to do mental math about their hairline, they gotta keep it real with themselves. And it's, it's, it's a tough process, it's a devastating process, it's a terrifying process, but Hims makes it simple to actually do something about it. That's right, going balding is a choice now and Hims is gonna help you make the choice to keep your hair. Hims offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including choose oral medications, serums and sprays, prescription strength ingredients like finasteride, minoxidil can help prevent further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. Hims brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  plans that put your goals first. Find the right hair regrowth treatment for you with flexible subscription options, access to 24/7 provider support and once a day treatment options that fit your daily routine. It's straightforward, transparent and designed to make getting care feel easy, okay? For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.com/flagrant, that's hims.com/flagrant for your free online, visit hims.com/flagrant. Also, we're all trying to feel healthy, right? Drinking more water, getting steps in, taking our vitamins, but here's what most people miss, your liver. Your liver health, it affects everything, your energy, digestion, skin, even your metabolism.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  It's time we show it some love and that's where Dose comes in. It's a clinically backed liver supplement, but not a pill. It's a two ounce daily shot that tastes like fresh orange juice, zero sugar, zero junk, zero calories. Your liver handles 500 plus functions a day, it's your body's filter. And when it's overworked, you feel sluggish, tired, off. Dose helps cleanse your liver, support daily function and can reduce midday crashes, boost metabolism, improve digestion, plus it's backed by two double-blind placebo-controlled studies showing real results. Ready to give your liver the support that it deserves? Head to dosedaily.co/flagrant or enter flagrant to get 35% off your first subscription.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Your body does so much for you, let's do something for it. That's D O S E D A I L Y dot C O slash flagrant for 35% off your first month subscription. Now, let's get back to the show. When your mom sees you win the belt?

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Do you have like a moment privately with her?

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Um, not really. The private moments that my mom or so, so like before, you know, I have to like go to the hotel, I had to try my, she brought like holy water with her. So she's like, I have to put holy water on your, you know, your fight kit. But she doesn't have access to like get to my fight kit, so one day.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, this could be the thing.

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  Did she put it on the gloves?

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  We are not allowed to touch the gloves ever.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  The shorts, the shorts I might have pissed on.

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  She put holy water in the, you know, she blessed me and she just prays a lot and she's very, she is also very competitive. So like when the fight starts, she's, she wants to win.

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  She's getting after it.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  My dad's more nervous than her.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. She's very nervous and concerned.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  But she knows that I love what I'm doing. She knows that I'm literally like I've been like she, they raised me for this.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  And they trust me in these situations. So.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Now that you have a nephew that's interested in fighting. Can you start to imagine what your parents must have felt like throughout your career?

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  Well, that's not hard to imagine because I have really good friends that fight.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  That's true, but it's different when it's your good friend than when it's your actual life.

• 1:24:03Speaker 04

  Like a little baby and like changes diapers and now he's fighting.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know how the feeling can be any more intense than it has been for people that I care about already. Like it's just, there's, there's a max where it's like, oh, fuck.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I, I think when you have kids.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't have children. I want to write a book. I want to write a book for parents. From a child's perspective, because I don't have children yet and I can still like, then be like what my parents were for me and why you need to be there for your kids.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  What were they?

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Leaders led by example, didn't ever try to be like my best friend, always hold me accountable, always.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Always kept me on track. My mom drug tested me like

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  two times a week.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  As a kid?

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  All through high school.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  For weed or something like that?

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  For weed, cocaine, for, I'm from Stafford. Can you pull up a map where Stafford, Arizona is?

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  So she's drug testing you twice a week. Was it a, was there like a lot of drugs in the community?

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. So go out, go out and see how close we are. Mexico is so. Uh, it's too far. Right there.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's the border.

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  So right there, the border is right there. Then New Mexico is like 30 miles. So like just, there's a 10,000, that mountain where his cursor is at is 10,700 foot, but it's just, everything's running up through here and there's just a lot of drugs. And.

• 1:25:39Speaker 04

  Also like mind towns can kind of be like that.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  And my, well, and every day is somebody's Friday.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  And we have nothing. It's, the highest speed limit in that town is 35.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  The what?

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Highest speed limit in that town is 35. Everyone's going like 32. Um, and somebody's weekend, you know, because everyone's on shit for work.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  Someone's Friday.

• 1:26:01Speaker 04

  And you're getting paid pretty well.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of money and.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Nothing to do.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  No education, not no education, but no knowledge on how to take care of money.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're spending.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  So they got toys.

• 1:26:14Speaker 04

  And the work is hard.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Big trucks.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  You're working hard?

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  And you can't take it with you and they work for it. And so, yeah.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like the.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  They're like very frugal, but like

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  they love toys.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  Well, you gotta do something to distract you.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Well, we got, there's sand dunes out there. Yeah. We, I mean, so we have like in high school, we're out.

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  Um, spotlighting for rabbits at night, having bonfires. Like it's a different life.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  Different life.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  Being that close to the border, did you ever see like drugs or guns, like cartel stuff, any of that?

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Well, so you wouldn't see it like visually, but like.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Like would you know what's going on? Like.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, like my friends, yeah, would probably be part of that.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  And you never thought about like, oh, let me make a little extra money.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  I always, my, I have amazing friends too. And they did a good job. Even my friends that could have

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  given me anything I wanted, didn't let me.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Oh, really? They kept you away from it? Oh, wow. Did they do that because they saw you having talent and you're like, this kid's gonna make it out?

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  No, I don't think that they thought I was gonna make it out, but like also

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  I always was like so disciplined towards sports. And so.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  Even though I was crazy and I wanted to have fun, like nothing superseded sports and my dedication to that. So like.

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  Football season, you're locked in.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, football season, yeah. Yeah. And they all, and they all knew that.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Could you have played baseball, you think professionally?

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  I never really got to play baseball because I was always of blind.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I read this.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  I was blind and I had.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  You were nearsighted in one eye and foresighted in the other?

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  I was going to tears and you, you would just jump like boom, boom, boom, boom.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  And so I had a hard, like baseball wasn't my best sport.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  So wrestling's perfect.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Check it out. I was the quarterback in football. You remember the flexy Nike glasses?

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  Dude, I put my helmet on and I stick my glasses in that bitch. Dude, I'd be out there.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Hold on. You had bifocals under the helmet?

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  In the helmet, yeah.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Wow. So you get the eye surgery?

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  What is seeing like?

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Dude, it's crazy. I go to Arizona and I stop at a stop sign and I look to my right and I see like, um, gnats hovering over the sidewalk.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  You've never seen them before.

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  And then I was driving. I saw a mouse like scamper across the street. I was like, this is fucking crazy. What the fuck? I've been missing everything.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Does fighting change for you?

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  Um,

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  no, not really.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  But do you think that like you.

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  I think, I think it was luck. I was lucky to have to learn to fight blind.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  That's what I'm wondering, like if it gave you a more feel for the person that you were with and a predictive ability. Exactly. Instead of like, I'm seeing it and reacting, knowing what they'll throw before they're even throwing it because you really couldn't see shit.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  But then how are you gauging distance if you're nearsighted and farther?

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  But I mean, I obviously wasn't blind. I could see.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  No, but I mean.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  But like, but depth is, yeah. Like that was the issue was the depth, the depth thing.

• 1:29:32Speaker 04

  I wonder if it gives you an advantage at an early point. You know what I mean? Like you're intuiting a lot more. You're like reading different things.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  It's fighting sense.

• 1:29:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, but I think also, I mean, there's a, yeah, that wrestling, um, there's a lot of things in my life that I've mentally done that are, that don't make sense that have got me ready for like fighting.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  For example?

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Like, um,

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  like when we're driving down the road, like this makes no sense. Like there's a shadow cast across the road. I have to like blink when the shadow's in between the tires. Like, so I'm just trying to like, like I'm just trying to work on my like, like fire, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  So you're trying to work on your timing?

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  My reaction times and my timing, like.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  You're trying to blink in between shadows?

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  When the shadows in between the tires of the car, I'm just trying to find that. And then so then I'm trying to to create like no hesitation ever in my action.

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a question about a counter punching thing?

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  When you're countering, right? Like, let's say you're just, you're countering a jab or whatever it is. Are you actually waiting for the punch to be thrown or are you thinking of the counter before the punch has been released?

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  No, their body is telling you it's coming.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  So when you hear that this, this like, oh, he's got his timing. You hear this a lot of time. Commentators say, oh, he's figured out his timing. He's figuring his distance. The timing that has been figured out is not like the punch is out and you're reacting. You're seeing me plant or you're seeing some sort of positioning that's queuing that I'm going to throw this jab.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  So like what?

• 1:31:06Speaker 02

  So like, there's a video, there's a video where it talks about how I, I am, um, I'm punching on the setup.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  On the other guy's setup?

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  On their setup. And usually people counter, a counter, when you think of counter, it's when they're done punching. But I'm countering their like, their setup.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  So what is queuing you in the setup? What is triggering it? What is the tell that they have?

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  So like, um, and when he's, when he's about to throw a jab, his back foot's coming here.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  So when he's.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  His back foot's coming.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  He steps back to throw it?

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  He, so in order to throw a jab, they're either going to push off this leg and go, or they're going to try to get space to catch you and then drive.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  So the second, so the second you see the back foot move.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  See this, I know in that punch, boom, boom. So you, you, you go to jab me, boom. So in between your setup, I like to counter. It's like, I trust my A to B. I trust that my A to B is faster than your A to B. I trust that my blinking in between shadows allows me to not hesitate in that decision.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  But when, when you're thinking about like, when I'm thinking about like a great counter puncher, like a Floyd for boxing, for example, I understand it's different, but like, let's just think about timing the same way. Floyd is almost like allowing you to throw the jab and like bring yourself towards him. And then he's coming over the top with that right hand.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  What you're saying is you're hitting it before that jab even comes out.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  As it's coming out.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Or as it's coming out. And you think that you could beat them to the punch. Like say somebody, he doesn't want to engage, right? And you're trying to bring them in.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  Right? And in order for to bring them in, you have to let them get something off. Or you always want to be the one pushing into them and.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just push them to the fence.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:32:46Speaker 02

  And then make them fight.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:32:48Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Because then they can't go anywhere.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  And that's why they can't do that. That's like not an option.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  Okay. So here's another thing I keep hearing with you specifically is, uh, I don't think people think of you as a one punch knockout guy.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  Okay. Yet there's all these guys that say that you're the hardest puncher they've ever faced.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Square that circle.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  I don't know. It doesn't make sense.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  I've tried, I've studied the body, I've studied the mind. I don't know how some people get knocked out and some people don't. I don't know how Tony Ferguson doesn't get, my best answer, the best answer I could find is it's the cardiovascular system and it's the ability to provide oxygen to the brain. And stay awake.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying specifically with you, there are all these guys that are like the hardest puncher I've ever faced is Justin. I think Khabib said it. Who else said it?

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  A few other guys. And it's like, but I don't think people would look at you and go, he's a one punch knockout artist. Like there are certain guys in the UFC that you would go, oh yeah, that's a, Emmet, for example, would be like a guy that's known as one punch knockout concussive power.

• 1:34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's such a great question. I honestly don't, I don't know. I don't know why they're gonna sleep more.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  I mean, he's got like twenty-one.

• 1:34:14Speaker 02

  I think, I think, I think.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  It's just crazy.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  I think a piece of it is.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  Their mindset, I think.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  The fighters.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  I think when they fight me, they know that that kind of fight is coming and so they're like.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  They're prepared.

• 1:34:30Speaker 02

  So they don't do what aliens do, they don't hide from it. They're like so prepared for this war and for this chaos.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  And so then. And so I used to like talk shit to people. And then so now I'm like, I don't say anything to anybody because I'm like, I'm not gonna give you any inspiration. Like you need to inspire yourself.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  That's all I'm doing, brother. Like, I can't help you. And because that's what people used to do to me, like, say something stupid to me.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:55Speaker 02

  Or on the golf course, say, say I'm gonna hit a bad shot.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  And I promise you it'll be better than it was gonna be. Because that's what, that's how, that's what we do.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  That's the fuel. Was there anybody who really annoyed you, like, in the fight buildup?

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  Um, no. I mean, Michael Johnson said personal things about my family. I was like, you know, fuck you. Can't wait to kill you.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  That was an unbelievable fight.

• 1:35:20Speaker 02

  That was a great fight.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Uh, James said dumb things, but he was just talking out his ass, throwing shit against the wall. So that just made me look better. But Michael Johnson's the only one that said personal things.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Have you guys since?

• 1:35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've smoked blunt with him.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  Really? So you guys are kind of cool now?

• 1:35:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have no issues.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:35:39Speaker 02

  I beat him.

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  What, hey, what is that like? What is that like when you're hanging out with somebody that's either beaten you or you've beaten them?

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  It's different for every single one of us. For me, it's whatever. Um, there's never been somebody that I've hung out with that beat me.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  I mean, you've spent time.

• 1:36:02Speaker 02

  How, but I don't imagine.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Like you and Dustin, for example.

• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  But I'd also be him.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  I know, that's what I'm saying. It's like you guys have had these two fights.

• 1:36:11Speaker 02

  But even before I beat him again, when he had beat me, I would have been felt the same way about him as I do now, now that I've got the win back.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  Which is like, respect and?

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, mutual respect. Um, I know we'll never have to fight again. So like I have no like competitive fire to like, you know, I would love to play even other things, take money. Yeah, but as a friend.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  I think someone I could hang out with, but I've never hung out with him, so. I golf with Michael Chandler.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  But so like, so you hear people talk about this all the time, like, it's different when you play basketball one-on-one against someone. You can still have some ego in there. But after you've fought, like after you've actually had a fight.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  What ego can be left? It's like somebody wants somebody.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  Pay us to do it again, so what the fuck are we doing?

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  So then, is it?

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  It hurts, so.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  But is it easier, for example, to like bond with somebody when you know that that bullshit is to the side?

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  Well, I think the bond comes from like the competition, not from like, mostly from that, like from like, I know how hard you worked. You know, um, I know the position that you put yourself in and the risk that you've accepted and I appreciate and I respect that. And like, that's the mutual appreciation. Like as a man, I appreciate you having the courage to do this.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, what you're willing to put on the line.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Who are the guys that you watch fight now that you feel so much for, that you love so much that it's difficult to watch? That you get that nervousness just watching?

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  Well, they would just be my teammates, like Kamaru, Archie, Colgan, uh, Corey Sanhagen.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  Love Corey, man. Corey came out to our show in Colorado.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  But outside that, like it's, now it's weird, like, it's weird.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:37:58Speaker 02

  It's weird, like, I don't have spikes and spikes in emotion anymore, like, it's so weird. Like even in these fights when Gable Seaton got sleep, I'm like, sweet. Like, I don't know, it's so weird.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  You didn't pop up at that knockout?

• 1:38:10Speaker 02

  I stood up after. But like, so like when Yuri went to sleep, uh, when Olberg was done and then hit him.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  No, I was like, like, you know, it's weird. I might have stood up, but I didn't have like a, like a.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, a big emotional reaction.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, watching this guy watch fights.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  Uh, Ozzy, my guy hit a hole in one the other day, though. I got the chills, so.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  Like something like that, like I loved, I loved seeing.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Have you ever hit a hole in one?

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, one. I do.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  Get the fuck, on video?

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  Feel spikes of emotions and when this, when good things happen.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  Hold on, hold on. On video, you're hole in one?

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  It wasn't on video.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  Where was it?

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  It was at the Preserve Golf Club in Biloxi, Mississippi. I was on a sixteen-man golf and gamble trip. That was actually one of the craziest trips ever.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Because I went there with zero dollars, came home with a hundred and twenty cash.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:39:01Speaker 02

  From craps. It was fucking awesome. I turned twelve dollars into eight thousand dollars the other day on a craps machine.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  Wait, hold on, hold on.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  I've won a lot of money on craps, but I turned eight, twelve dollars into eight thousand during my.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  One run?

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  One, one run, dude. No, it was a, it was a craps machine. So I, I was down to twelve dollars. I put two dollars on the bonus. I hit the bonus, the all. That was like four twenty. And then I put, um, twenty, uh, ten, ten, ten or something. Hit that and that was like, uh, nine hundred. And then he did it again with the max. It was like twenty-five, ten, twenty-five. And that paid me like twenty-four hundred hand pay. And then on the way to hitting all those numbers, I made like five thousand dollars.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  Damn, you went twelve to eight Gs.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  Twelve dollars.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Machines and stuff. But this is a craps, I've never heard of a craps machine.

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  I don't understand.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a tap, tap, tap.

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  Just hit the button.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  And it's like, you have your own little individual dice and this little thing right here.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  So then you leave, you, you, you exited AK? You, why are you not letting it roll?

• 1:40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was, I was, I literally was down there getting food. I ordered food to go.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  And while you're waiting.

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  I had a hundred and twenty dollars in my pocket. The night before, I had like ten Gs in my pockets. I put like four thou, three thousand in this machine, couldn't do shit. And then that time I had a hundred and twenty and it was crazy.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  Do you like the machine better than the table?

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  No, I like the table, but I was in California.

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 1:40:26Speaker 02

  Fucking craziest thing ever. I threw a six-two and it was a seven. It's fucking crazy.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  What do you mean you threw a six?

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  So they have six cards. They shuffle them up and they put them in order, one through six. And it might be like two, four, six, five, three, one. And then I throw a dice, I throw a dice and say it's five-two. And the five is a three and the two is a six, so I got nine, so I threw a nine.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  Hmm. And is that winning or losing?

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02Speaker 02

  Do you play craps?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  No. I've never played craps like that. I've played craps like when you're at the table, you have the dice you throw, you could bet the line or you bet the.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  You can't bet on dice in California. So they have the cards. There's a correlation from the dice to the cards.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  But it's not a direct correlation.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  So this is them trying to like manipulate the system to create craps without the.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  So I threw a six-two, the six was a five and the two was a two, so it was a seven.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  So I lost.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  And you crapped out?

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  On what?

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  A six-two. But the card said I threw a seven.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Right, right. That would drive me crazy.

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm fucking done.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Fucking done.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  What, what about the energy at a craps table? Are you managing like, uh, people's vibes? Does that matter to you? Does that get you hyped a little bit?

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  Well, so usually when I play craps, I have a craps team.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  A team?

• 1:41:55Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  You can't have a mush.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  We go to Colorado. Colorado is the best place to gamble now. It's crazy.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  Uh, so like maybe three, four years ago, they changed the law. Max, before this, before the law changed, max bet was a hundred dollars. You couldn't bet more than a hundred dollars on anything. They changed the law, it went to twenty thousand dollars. So now max bets are twenty thousand dollars, but on the past, so you don't know craps.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  I do if we, it's real craps, not this one.

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  So real craps, real craps. On the pass line, the odds behind in Vegas is three, four, five, right?

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  Three on the six, no, three on the, uh, it's five on the six and eight, four on the.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  And then three on the, whatever, two to one, four and ten. In Colorado, you can put a hundred time odds behind. So if I have twenty-five hundred, I can put a hundred times on a six or an eight or a ten. And you're gonna get paid, if it's a ten, you get paid two to one, six to five, three to two.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. So you could run it up?

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  So you can get crazy, yeah. You can gamble for real.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  So who's the craps team, though?

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  Me, Greg Bradbury, Lucas Cudillo, Tanner Wicks, Terrence Whitman. They're out of my, out of my gym.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  Is Terrence related to?

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  Terrence is Travis Coates' son.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Son.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  He's my camera guy.

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's the camera guy for my business, Onyx.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:19Speaker 02

  Sports equipment.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course, yeah. So you need all those guys there if you're gonna really run it up at the craps table?

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:25Speaker 01

  You can't have.

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  Or like, I'll play by myself, but I won't bet big until it gets to me.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Have you, have you?

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  If I'm gonna lose or win, I want it to be on my people.

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  Have you ever sat with, have you ever sat with a, a real whale and threw down? Like you ever, you ever go with Dana when he's throwing like three hundred K on a hand of baccarat or whatever? No.

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Hoes?

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  No, chazzy. That was a chazzy guy.

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Oh, hell yeah. Let me, let's, let's pick it up.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 1:43:57Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  Paul, what are you about to say?

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  Nothing bad. Tazzy.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  Tazzy.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  Tazzy, what's up, man? It's Andrew Schulz. We're doing a pod right now with Justin.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Hey, I just had you on their screen right there.

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  Gachy was saying that, Gachy was saying he smoked you in golf the last time you guys played.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's one time out of the three times.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  I didn't even say that. It's crazy. But he knows. I think he saw us online.

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Honestly, I was joking. He said that you beat him.

• 1:44:29Speaker 02

  I didn't say that, but I did.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  He did beat you once?

• 1:44:32Speaker 05

  He did beat me once. He's gonna beat me at Silverleaf, that is for sure.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  What's up? What's up? Need something? Call you later?

• 1:44:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just thought of the best idea ever.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Well, we're live on a pod, so you want to say that?

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  We're live on a pod, so maybe...

• 1:44:47Speaker 05

  Let's start an app called Press.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Don't give away these ideas.

• 1:44:54Speaker 05

  I know, it's for Justin.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  But you're gonna give it away to the whole world. We're recording a podcast right now.

• 1:45:01Speaker 05

  You told me to start talking.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Bye, Chaz.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  Bye, Chaz.

• 1:45:08Mark Gagnon?

  That's funny.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Tazzy's awesome.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  Damn. So what gets you in your head? Is there ever a moment where you're like, thinking about your own thoughts and you don't feel like you're connected? Like, when you're in the octagon, you seem so locked in. And even with golf, you seem like you're so laser focused. Like, if you do public speaking, are you like, ah, fuck, like?

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  I'm in my head a little bit.

• 1:45:26Speaker 02

  No, I'm like, um, yeah, when I, when I'm, when I know that I'm not prepared for a situation, then I know.

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  So it's just preparation?

• 1:45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, I did speak at the Republican National Convention a couple of weeks ago, but they gave me like a two days' notice and I had a golf tournament. So I like wrote the speech while I was doing the golf tournament. But I didn't have enough time to like memorize it. So I knew I was gonna look stupid, reading off a teleprompter, but I...

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  But everybody's reading off a teleprompter.

• 1:45:54Speaker 02

  I know, but this is my first time ever.

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  So I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna look. And then I was looking like a crackhead.

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  So it was nerve wracking.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was nervous. So yeah, I was nervous about that. But like, I didn't have, like, I wasn't nervous to go out there.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  Because I was like, I have to do it. I'm here. Can't get out of it. Can't bitch out.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  So don't get, so don't, like, just pretty much don't think.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  Don't think or read your speech.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  Like, prepare a ton or don't think about it at all?

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  Or don't. Yeah, even like a locker, like, any thought can like, transcend like something that you never came here with or prepared for. And so I just like, don't have thoughts.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, dealing with negative thoughts is difficult. Like, being in a moment like when the negative thoughts seep in and like not entertaining them. Like, for you, you just go...

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  For me, I got, learned a trick on my, when I was so stupid, but it really is so simple. Like, whenever, for one, you have to understand and recognize that you're having like irrational thoughts or, and so like you have to, if you have to like, you need to like stop. Like, say the word stop when you recognize it. And then, you know, internally, you can do that. And then if you need to externally do that, then that's a trick. That you do, but you need to, and then you become more aware. And then you, it doesn't transcend into like negative actions.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  As often.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  You can literally see, you can see the negative thoughts coming in and you'll tell yourself like, stop.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Stop.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not gonna help.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  That is interesting, though. It's like, you know, the knee jerk reaction to having negative thoughts is like, well, let me have a positive one, like offsetting it. But what's probably most beneficial is having none at all.

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  Or going back to your happy place. Like, what, what did I come here with?

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  Like in golf, it's my basement. Like, it's where I hit, that's where I hit balls. So like, if I'm playing like shit, I'm like, just go to your basement. Strike the ball.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Like, it's all I can do. Can't, can't try harder. Because I'm trying really fucking hard right now.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  You can't prepare more because the time's already gone?

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm here. The time's now.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:01Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I said stop a couple of times this podcast because I was thinking I could take this guy.

• 1:48:06Speaker 02

  Every time you're like...

• 1:48:07Mark Gagnon?

  I'm thinking about.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  I'm gonna take a kick. I'm gonna take a kick stop.

• 1:48:12Mark Gagnon?

  I could take the kick, though.

• 1:48:13Speaker 01

  One kick, Al. Just one kick.

• 1:48:15Mark Gagnon?

  I can't take a punch, but I can take a kick. I can take a kick.

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  One kick.

• 1:48:18Mark Gagnon?

  Chicken's lightweight.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  Do you want to do it, Al?

• 1:48:19Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  Well, he's already signed up.

• 1:48:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Well, let's, let's just do it right there. Like, just a little one, but don't injure yourself.

• 1:48:28Mark Gagnon?

  When we're done, when we're...

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  But right here, just one right there.

• 1:48:31Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, fuck it.

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck it. All right. Get all your stuff out. Don't hurt yourself.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Well, see, if I do a backflip, I might go through this fucking floor.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Don't do a back, Gachy.

• 1:48:44Speaker 04

  He's playing a backflip.

• 1:48:47Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, where'd you go on this one?

• 1:48:48Speaker 02

  I'm gonna keep you on that leg.

• 1:48:49Mark Gagnon?

  All right, all right.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Make sure there's nothing in your pockets or anything.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  And then punch your foot towards me a little bit. Yeah.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Move the chair.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  Tell me when. Action?

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  Action.

• 1:49:02Mark Gagnon?

  Well, lightweight.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  That was it? Ah, you bitch.

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:49:18Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:49:20Mark Gagnon?

  I could take another one. That's light.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I should. But not too crazy.

• 1:49:23Speaker 02

  No, just that hard.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  I'm coming over, I'm coming off of an Achilles.

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  So hard as that.

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so here's my knee.

• 1:49:28Speaker 02

  That won't hurt your knee.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. You want to take this stuff out or not?

• 1:49:31Speaker 02

  No, you don't need to.

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  And do it, put weight on or off?

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, punch your foot towards me a little bit.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:49:36Mark Gagnon?

  I ain't go out or nothing.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  Nice and soft at first.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, nice and soft.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah. It's like already.

• 1:49:45Mark Gagnon?

  Now, give him the second one.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Yo, you know what's weird?

• 1:49:47Mark Gagnon?

  No, no, no, give him the second one.

• 1:49:48Speaker 01

  It feels like you're kicking down on my leg. No, no, no. Try to get... See, I dodged that one. That was easy.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  It's too much. The hands you can think about, but it's too much. All right, so sit up. Wait a minute, that's actually kind of punch. So, but don't actually hurt me. But start the, start making me adjust to whatever you want to do. This is your range?

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  Well...

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  With a guy with my length?

• 1:50:13Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  Fuck that stuff.

• 1:50:15Mark Gagnon?

  I know, it's close.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  It's just intimidating.

• 1:50:16Speaker 02

  Because any time you, I want to make you punch.

• 1:50:19Speaker 01

  You want, so if I'm throwing...

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Because then I'm moving here.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  And now I can't strike over, so I'm already off. Yeah, yeah. So if, if, if you slip there, I have to come over here, right? And then we have to spin. Oh, and I'm done. Okay, got it. Okay, go on, go on. So...

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  So I'm coming here. So I want you to step here. Boom.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  So what am I doing in that? Am I fighting for?

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  Um, space, but really, so like, if you're gonna kick me, you know, I'm gonna, boom.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  So if I'm, so if I'm going here...

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Then I'm trying to get to this. So I'm here.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  I'm always ready. So like, if you're gonna kick me, boom.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  Got it?

• 1:50:57Mark Gagnon?

  You didn't tell me to do that.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  So I come, you like...

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  I telegraphed this fucker.

• 1:51:00Speaker 02

  But everybody's going to, because you have to.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  It's like, ready?

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  And then if I want to create, if I'm just trying to keep you, if I'm trying to create distance, so then, and what are you doing? Waiting for me to...

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  No, right here, I'm coming here, making your feet change.

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  Oh, that. So one step out that way. I adjust here and then you come in.

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  Okay, can I feel it? Can I feel it?

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 1:51:20Speaker 04

  All right, same deal. I normally am terrified of this, but I trust you so much.

• 1:51:24Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, you gotta give him a good one. That second one, it's grease.

• 1:51:28Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  All right, okay. Okay.

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  No, that one, that...

• 1:51:34Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay. So, so just real quick. Okay, so, can you do the thing again where you made me adjust? So you made me turn into the adjustment?

• 1:51:42Speaker 05

  It's like chess, you know?

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  So, so I'm, okay, so then I would...

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  If I want you to come this way, I'll come this way.

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  And then you come out. Okay, so again, it's, so, so if I'm going, so then I would, if I'm going here, I'm taking a step here, you adjust, and then where do I, where am I moving? If I'm trying to recreate what you did to me.

• 1:52:00Speaker 02

  Come here.

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  So then I step in.

• 1:52:02Speaker 02

  But it's gonna be, so, so I come here.

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  Boom.

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  I'm...

• 1:52:05Speaker 02

  Back foot.

• 1:52:06Speaker 01

  Now you're back. But if I want to set you up like you're setting me?

• 1:52:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I just showed you. So you're going here and then you're trying to come back this way with your back foot.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  I'm going here.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:15Speaker 02

  And then when you step that way, I'm beating you with this foot.

• 1:52:20Speaker 01

  Got it. Okay.

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  It's called a pimp step. Hoo hoo.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  A pimp step.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:25Speaker 01

  So it's...

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  And then a pimp step and an L step are the same. So is that...

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  So there are these tiny little micro...

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Pimp step. L step, pimp step.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  And now I'm...

• 1:52:34Speaker 02

  And I'm here.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  L step.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  And guys, so now I'm the person constantly adjusting to you.

• 1:52:41Speaker 02

  I'm leading the dance.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  But you're leading the dance.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  And then I'll change, then, so now, right now, it's like reggae. You know, it's like, just over.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  And then it's over. It's, once you're in, it's over. Okay.

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  And so I'm changing the, I'm changing the, the, the song type.

• 1:52:54Speaker 01

  But what if, so now what if I'm the one applying that same thing? So I'm throwing jabs.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  I'm stepping here. Now I'm probably stepping right into you, so I would have to...

• 1:53:01Speaker 02

  So right there, then I'll get to space.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  Okay, so...

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  So we said, now I get to...

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Now, you're already starting to approach.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  So then boom, now it's fight for it. Now it's fight for the momentum.

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Fight for the momentum mean I have to try to make you adjust first and then whoever lands.

• 1:53:13Speaker 02

  And then when I'm losing, so I do, I want to avoid 50/50 situations.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  What is 50/50 situation?

• 1:53:18Speaker 02

  So like, you throw a right hand, I throw a right hand.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  And then whoever lands.

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, whoever lands, whoever lands. I want, if I'm gonna train my hand with you, I want to be like right here.

• 1:53:26Speaker 01

  So I'm reaching out and you're hitting straight in.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  Like, I won't take it and if I'm, and if I see that, I'm gonna be a 50/50. It's like, okay.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  Step out of it.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  And then what about when you see guys exchange hooks and one guy gets caught or something like that? Why are they in that position?

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  Well, a lot of times, people just throw everything out the window and let it fucking fight.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  Bro, the little...

• 1:53:46Speaker 02

  They're just like, fuck it, like, you know, I'm gonna get him. They're like, I'm going to kill you. Instead of, I might get hit.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  And you're thinking, I want you in a disadvantageous situation to exchange with me.

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  I'm staying, no matter what, if I'm in this fight, I'm going to continue to create and cause damage as long as you don't hit me hard enough to take me out of it.

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  And can you take me through the sequence with, which ends at the collar?

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  So I go here. Boom, boom.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  So it's, so you-

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Or I just, you know, first I'll do this.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  So you tease the single and then I go boom. Oh, so I'm going, I, I move out and I sprawl and then boom.

• 1:54:22Speaker 04

  It's literally chess.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:54:24Speaker 04

  Like in chess, you're trying to keep tempo and if he gets a tempo on you, you're trying to readjust.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  You have no idea.

• 1:54:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  Cause it's like, uh, yeah, I mean, you have to obviously anticipate, predict you're gonna be wrong sometimes. So then you need to be able to like, reset.

• 1:54:39Speaker 04

  And if he's setting the pace, you gotta try to figure out a way to-

• 1:54:41Speaker 02

  Then it's crash.

• 1:54:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  Like if I'm, if I'm losing, I'm losing, like fucking just get in here.

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  Get in here, call it, reset, reset the tempo.

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  And I like to punch from here, like, I like to punch right down their fucking shoulders every time I leave.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  But I also saw you in here, creating a little space and then shooting, it looked like you were shooting something up.

• 1:54:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're coming here, boom, boom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the collar tie, you just punch your hand, boom.

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  The collar shit is so interesting, but-

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Cause you pull away from it. And so they, they pull away, I just punch there.

• 1:55:12Speaker 04

  There's a gap.

• 1:55:12Speaker 02

  So you're like, don't pull away from it. Boom, and I just punch you there. So then they're stuck in between a block and a hard place.

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  So do you think-

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  So what they have to do when you collar tie me-

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, what would, you collar tie me- Go inside.

• 1:55:23Speaker 04

  Close the gap.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  So is the collar tie even better than the Muay Thai grab? Because with the Muay Thai, you're not throwing anything.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  Like you've seen guys do this one, right?

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they go elbows in.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:32Speaker 02

  Here, and then knees, boom, elbows.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's what Armin did with the-

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, every style, everybody's-

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, to each his own.

• 1:55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, to each his own, pretty much.

• 1:55:44Speaker 01

  But having that little adjustment, like that to me is interesting.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  So again, like, it is like, so it is super pointed like this, okay?

• 1:55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:50Speaker 02

  So in order to create power, I have to be able to sprint in that direction.

• 1:55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:55Speaker 02

  So right now, all my power is-

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  Straight.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  Straight here. If I, it's right there, now you can-

• 1:56:01Speaker 01

  Now I'm here.

• 1:56:02Speaker 02

  And so as I go that way, it's easy for me to go sprint that, I can go sprint that way right now. Boom.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:06Speaker 02

  Like, but in order for me to take off sprinting that way, I have to reset and go. Yeah, it takes two steps.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's-

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  So if I square you up here-

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  I would have to go here.

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Here, boom, here.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  And now you boom.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, then I, then, well, yeah, but you're doing a good job at, you know, being there.

• 1:56:25Speaker 01

  I was trying to frame with you, so every time you go here, I'm-

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  What he's trying to do is stay pointed.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  He's staying pointed.

• 1:56:30Speaker 02

  So you're trying to stay pointed the whole time.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, and people run from his right hand, so then he's always ready to just turn it over. Boom.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Ah, it's crazy, the micro steps and what they're setting up in the sequence.

• 1:56:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, like on his jab, you jab, I like to kick on the jab. Boom.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw you guys exchanging.

• 1:56:47Speaker 02

  Cause you can't open your leg.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  That's right, I'm putting my weight down here.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  So there's no adjustment, there's no tweak, there's nothing.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  And you can't, and you're eating the whole-

• 1:56:57Speaker 01

  Are you willing to accept that jab though, when you're throwing?

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Well, no, my head's coming off, so you're coming here. Boom.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  Oh, so, so you throw the jab, oh no, you throw the, the left, right?

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter what I throw.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's just boom.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  I'm throwing it at your face is the point. The point is I'm moving my face, so your, your target is changing. You can't make the adjustment, like mid-

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  In real time, yeah.

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  So they're committed, once you, you make, so that's why I didn't like, you, you use this as pressure to make them punch you.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  You want something being thrown.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  You punch me and then I can boom, boom, boom, punch off that. That's how I counter.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  You like actually the proximity for your counters.

• 1:57:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then like, for, so like, usually I'd fight someone here, for any, I was like, I'm gonna fight him right here.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  You were giving him more distance.

• 1:57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause he's so fast.

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  So you're adjusting for, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:46Speaker 02

  For his speed and then I could obviously, you know, have to really could understand where his feet are.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  But you want a little bit of that lunge, you want him, you want him, you want him-

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  Reaching.

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  A little bit more of a reach than he would normally do. And then what happens when he was inside like this? And he was going with those bodies, obviously it fucking-

• 1:58:04Speaker 02

  Um, that's just-

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  But are you trying to crowd? What is the?

• 1:58:07Speaker 02

  Um-

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  It felt like you were trying to come over the top with a-

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  You're trying to like counter there, throw with him.

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  So like when he throws a right, you know, you're trying to throw something.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're matching what he throws.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause you, you've, you've, you've put yourself in this position, you're in a 50-50, there's no way out.

• 1:58:23Speaker 01

  Oh, so when you're in the 50-50, it's, you throw your way out.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  If your back's against the wall and you're in a 50-50, then don't turn into a fucking 80-20 for him.

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, you gotta ban.

• 1:58:33Speaker 02

  Like fucking have an attitude. You know, that's when the desire and the fire and the fucking grit, determination is to like, stay in it.

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  So, so your, so your coach is basically, you and Trevor are basically going, all right, if we get into a 50-50, you gotta fire your way out.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  No, uh, no, it would be more like, we are not going here.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. But if you're there, you said, don't turn into an 80-20.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  If I get pushed to the fence, like, so like when I was pushed to the fence right there, um, it's, the, the game plan is get off the fucking fence. Get off the fence.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:12Speaker 02

  By getting, you know, beginning to a clinch and turning him that way, but he was, he was, I was in a pickle.

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's weird, it's like, um-

• 1:59:24Speaker 02

  It's a crazy game.

• 1:59:24Speaker 04

  Can I ask you a dumb question? Again, I'm watching, I watch UFC fights because I like them and I enjoy the, the carnage and the competition, but I don't know the technical elements.

• 1:59:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:34Speaker 04

  So the next fight that I watch, what is like a technical thing that fighters know, that fight lovers know, that a casual person isn't picking up on? That would make me appreciate the sport more?

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  Dude, the, what makes you appreciate the sport more is I know as much as you. That's what's crazy about this, where like, I truly don't fucking know. I'm always wrong, I cannot pick winners, cause I don't fucking, I don't know. But I don't know why, I don't know how.

• 2:00:04Speaker 04

  Watching feet, like if I just watched the feet the whole fight.

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  I mean, what you just showed us right there was like highest level IQ in this.

• 2:00:09Speaker 04

  Gives me a hundred percent more appreciation.

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  But I can't see someone do it, I don't know if there's, I don't know if they're actually doing it intentionally or-

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  Or if it's happening just naturally.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's just happening naturally, I don't know, like, I don't know the process.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:00:24Speaker 02

  That got them here, you know?

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you're obviously watching with a critical eye, when you're seeing certain guys up there, right?

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  I'm watching for knockouts. I wanna see someone go to sleep too.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're watching just as a casual like us?

• 2:00:36Speaker 02

  I love this sport of MMA. Now with the knowledge of anything, any moment, it just makes it that much more exciting.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it is unbelievably-

• 2:00:46Speaker 04

  Like if you're watching this, are you watching just like, damn, these guys are banging? Cause when I'm watching this, I'm like, these guys are throwing hard punches.

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  That's it. I'm not watching anything about their technique.

• 2:00:53Speaker 04

  You're not looking at the feet, you're not looking at like, oh, he's kind of eating that, the counter?

• 2:00:58Speaker 02

  No. A lot of times, the fighters know, like a lot more than the people observing. A good example is Cito Vera fight.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  Like Cito, that guy didn't seem out of it until he was out of it, but like, it was, there was signs, like before that, that he was on his way to like-

• 2:01:15Speaker 04

  That you could pick up on, other fighters could pick up on.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, like he's about to be, he's about to have to like, either get knocked out or have to make a choice.

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 2:01:24Speaker 02

  Of getting himself out of this situation, yeah.

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, or else, he's going to, or he's going to sleep.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  So you felt Cito coming on, and maybe the average fan might not have seen it, but-

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  It's all about of momentum. So really, it's about, so like, it's all momentum, but, but again, fighting is crazy. So like, you can steal momentum and take momentum in any given moment. Like, it's so weird. I don't know, it's, that's a good question, it's not a dumb question, cause there's no fucking answer.

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  Yo, how long does it take to recover from a shot? Hard shot?

• 2:01:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'd like to know.

• 2:01:57Speaker 02

  Shots are different, it's weird.

• 2:01:59Speaker 01

  To your head?

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  No, I know, I know, but there, those are different, like there's different ways that they hurt. Sometimes it's like a buzz, it's gone, sometimes it doesn't hurt and then your legs don't work, and it's like, what the fuck's going on?

• 2:02:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  But every single time, it's like, over, on the next, then the guy's trying to hit you with another one, so it's like, oh shit, pay, pay attention to that one. And so he's just not even thinking about it. Like whenever Poirier hurt me, I didn't know I was hurt, I was just fighting. And then he stopped and I was like, what the fuck? But I was definitely compromised.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:02:37Speaker 02

  It was a good stoppage.

• 2:02:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  But I thought it was fine. It's, that's why we need people to protect them.

• 2:02:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, you need doctors to come in and be like, he can not fight.

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  That's why I have issues with like, when fouls happen, like head butts or eye pokes or growing shots, like,

• 2:02:55Speaker 02

  or mostly what I'm talking about is like an illegal shot to the head on the ground, like a knee to the head.

• 2:03:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:02Speaker 02

  Where they're obviously like compromised, like the fight shouldn't, that decision should not lie on the, on the fighter.

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  Cause he has to make, he already chooses fight, so he's gonna make, you know, he's putting in a position to look like a bitch.

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:16Speaker 02

  When it, he should never be put in that position, he didn't, he didn't make, he didn't create the foul.

• 2:03:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:20Speaker 02

  You know, he's compromised. Um, and so like, cause things like that, like I think, like a knee to the head.

• 2:03:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Or like a shot after a knockout? Like I know a lot of fans will watch and be like, man, he didn't have to do that. You think that's different?

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:33Speaker 01

  You gotta finish it.

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  You don't know. Dude, I, I swear to God, go, go to the Luis Palomino fight. I hit him, he goes to sleep, hits the ground like this. Wake up, wake up fighting. I was like, what the fuck?

• 2:03:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  And he woke up fighting. And I was like, god damn it. The ground, the, the, you know, the force of that jolt from the ground woke him up.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Nice little body kick.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  Oh, this is, uh, he was a BKFC champion. He's a Peruvian street fighter.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  And then boom, he wakes up fighting, I was like, no! And then boom, he went to sleep right there for a second, he woke up fighting again, I was like, fuck!

• 2:04:16Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:04:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was-

• 2:04:17Speaker 04

  You hit a backflip here? Come on now.

• 2:04:18Speaker 01

  Bro, when you did the backflip-

• 2:04:20Speaker 04

  Oh, that's just like that?

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  I'm saying that.

• 2:04:24Mark Gagnon?

  Okay. You do the backflip and then you try to do like another backflip.

• 2:04:28Speaker 02

  No, that was the only way out without injuring myself. I had too much momentum, object in motion, need to stay in motion, so I added some momentum.

• 2:04:36Speaker 04

  Have you seen him do back rolls?

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:04:39Speaker 04

  This is the most insane shit I've ever seen. I didn't even know this was possible to do. From his neck, flicking himself back up.

• 2:04:46Speaker 01

  This is like some wrestling shit, right?

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:48Speaker 04

  So he's using his hands here, which is like, after you do it on your neck, that shit looks too easy. But is able to literally back roll off his neck and flick himself up.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's coming like that. Cause I, my coach, he, I'll make him try to do it. And he almost breaks his neck every time.

• 2:05:03Speaker 04

  Look at this.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:05:06Speaker 04

  No hands.

• 2:05:07Speaker 02

  Oh, he doesn't have my coach doing it. Oh yeah, that's it.

• 2:05:10Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  And then my big coach over there will try to do it. Oh my god. He almost broke his neck like three times already.

• 2:05:17Speaker 04

  That's what I'm saying. You could have been like a gymnast.

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I was. I just grew up on a wrestling mat. And trampoline. I wasn't allowed inside.

• 2:05:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  You weren't allowed inside?

• 2:05:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  That's old school parenting.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  Now when the sun was up.

• 2:05:31Speaker 04

  Go run it off. Too much energy.

• 2:05:34Speaker 01

  Brother, um, all right, before, before we wrap this up, if there is another fight, is there anyone that you want?

• 2:05:44Speaker 02

  Hmm, no, not specifically.

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  Has there ever been, outside of a title, has there ever been like a fighter that you wanted? Or was the focus always like?

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  Obviously like the people that beat me, I want.

• 2:05:56Speaker 01

  Obviously, yeah.

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  And I know how big of a bitch I sound when I say this, but the fact that Ilija knocked out Charles Olivera and Max Holloway, which are the only two people that are still there that have beat me.

• 2:06:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Like I am, I'm okay. I'm okay with those.

• 2:06:13Speaker 04

  It went to clean.

• 2:06:14Speaker 02

  I'm okay with them beating me and I'm okay beating, knocking, finishing, you know, making the guy quit that finished them.

• 2:06:23Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  So that like wipes the slate.

• 2:06:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, as stupid as, I don't know if that's cowardly or, but I just, yeah, I don't know. I'm okay with it.

• 2:06:33Speaker 04

  Transitive property.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm okay with it.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  Okay, and then as far as defending the title, any, now that you've won it.

• 2:06:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  Like you checked it off.

• 2:06:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  Have you thought past winning it even as a kid? Were you like, I want to win it and then?

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  I never thought I would be a fighter as a kid.

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  Sorry, as an adult, as a professional. Like you achieved the dream.

• 2:06:53Speaker 02

  So I, I never thought it would take until 2026 for me to achieve this. Obviously I had a chance in 2022 against Khabib, failed. I had another chance against Olivera. I should have won that fight. Uh, that was in 2024. And so I thought I would be a champion in those moments. And I failed and I never thought I would get another chance after losing to Max Holloway. Understanding there was repercussions in the title implications of that loss. Um, and so I didn't think I would get another chance, but I knew that I was still one of the best in the world. I knew that this sport was so crazy that any given moment, you know, the guys in, at the top of the game can beat each other.

• 2:07:36Speaker 02

  And so I knew that if I just stayed in it, I, you know, I was still in a position where they, they owed me a fight because of that, because of that, you know, what I could, I, I was biased. I thought they deserved, I deserved it. They owed it to me, even though I took that fight and lost to Max Holloway. And then, you know, I failed for his eve, short notice, supposed to fight Dan Hooker, not my problem, not my fault. Um, and then Patty, you know, undefeated, up and coming next guy. And I got the chance, you know, luckily, I thought I was going to fight Ilija in January and then I was going to get a chance to get Max Holloway back on the White House lawn. That was what I thought would happen after I fought his eve.

• 2:08:17Speaker 02

  But then, you know, Ilija had his hiatus, so I was like, okay, I'll fight Patty in January, fight him in on the White House. And I spoke it and I believed it and I worked for it. And yeah, it's crazy that I accomplished it. I do not feel like I have anything left to prove.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  Uh, my first fight was in 08. I'm 37 years old. But I know that I also just performed better than I've ever performed, so I, I'm stuck in between a rock and a hard place. Um, I have my faculties. I want to keep my faculties. Uh, I have nothing left to prove. So, I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen. Interesting. Fun though. It's a good position to be in.

• 2:08:59Mark Gagnon?

  It's a great position.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  Conor Gallagher has one fight left on his contract.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  You want that Conor fight, huh?

• 2:09:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be fun. That'd be fun.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  You think he can stay healthy for it?

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  I don't care.

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  Well, you do care because you want the fight to happen.

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Best case scenario, he shows up and fucking gets hurt in the first five seconds. Like, I mean, that's the truth.

• 2:09:18Speaker 01

  So you would want Conor over Armin?

• 2:09:21Speaker 02

  It's not that I don't want to fight Armin. It really isn't. It's that I, I mean, he's the next in line. If, when, if and when I defend this championship, that will be who I fight.

• 2:09:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:09:32Speaker 02

  I just don't know right now. Right now, I have a deep bruise in my knee. Still can't punch with my hand, where three months removed from my last fight. And so I gave a lot of myself for this fight in January and June. Took, and luckily, you know, I came out on top and, but it cost me a lot and so I need to recover. I need to, uh, rest my brain, you know, because a lot of training went into those fights. And I'm just gonna enjoy being the champion the rest of the year. I'm going to make a business decision and a life decision whenever the time comes.

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  Justin Gagey.

• 2:10:14Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:10:15Speaker 01

  The motherfucking champ. Thank you, brother.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  Appreciate you having me, my man. Let's go. Let's give those kicks.

• 2:10:20Mark Gagnon?

  And Bruno.

• 2:10:21Speaker 04

  And you, and you avoided it. We were supposed to.

• 2:10:23Mark Gagnon?

  Change leg kicks, so I'm a.

• 2:10:25Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 2:10:26Mark Gagnon?

  No, no, it's all right, it's all right.

• 2:10:27Speaker 01

  Here, I gave you two.

• 2:10:28Mark Gagnon?

  I don't want to injure your other knee right now.

• 2:10:30Speaker 01

  I'll give you one.

• 2:10:32Mark Gagnon?

  It's fine.

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:10:32Mark Gagnon?

  I'm gonna let you out of it. I'm gonna let you out of it today.