UFO Expert Reveals Most Undeniable Crash Story

Yerrrrrrr we have the legend James Fox talk about all things alien: - 2017 New York Times Article changing everything - Varginha - Calvine sightings - Roswell - Men in suits - 4n4l probes & summoning UFOs and much, much more Timestamps: 0:00 Know vs Belief + There's great evidence 3:31 Aliens = horny + 2017 NYT article changed everything 7:26 Encounters + Tic Tac craft 12:17 Whistleblowers + Why ridicule? 16:06 Keeping things under wraps? 20:21 James' journey + Roswell & others 25:51 The Varginha Incident 45:26 "He's telling the truth" + 30th anniversary 53:00 Letting it land, Questioning + Telepathy 1:00:47 Alien rescue mission + Inconsistencies 1:10:46 What do the Americans know? 1:13:44 Why such little information? 1:17:47 Leaks, 4th batch + Calvine sightings 1:34:22 Phoenix Lights + Men in Suits 1:42:31 James' own experience + Calling an ex 1:45:49 What happens if true? 1:52:01 No air disturbance? 1:53:08 Project Hail Mary + Zimbabwe 1:57:33 Protect Earth + Aussie landings 2:03:37 Roswell + Reverse engineering 2:11:03 What James doesn't believe + Las Vegas 2:15:56 Men In Suits visiting James? 2:20:44 Why don't aliens mess with Europeans? 2:23:04 4n4l probing + Summoning UFOs --------------------- This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N. A., pursuant to a license from Visa U. S. A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Savings provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's up everybody, welcome to Flaker. Today, we are joined by filmmaker, investigator, UFO and extraterrestrial expert, could we say?

• 0:11Speaker 01

  People used to go believer, and I think that's such a crock because you don't believe in, you either know about something, or you don't know about something. It's not a question of believing, what it is, is that's the question. But yeah, so you, you know, UFO investigator, filmmaker, James Fox.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  We got James Fox.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  And James is gonna break down why aliens do exist, why they're coming here. And he's got it all, and one of the most compelling pieces of evidence to prove these theories.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Yes, I would call it, you know, because people go, well, what's the one case? You know, like, what's the one photograph?

• 0:49Speaker 00

  We want to hear all.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  We have really good, yeah, we have really good photographs. Because people go, where's the good photographs? It's like, well, you want to start in 1947? Do you want to go to 1950? Do you want to go to the 60s? You know, and I could say, okay, how would you define a good photograph of a UFO? Points of reference? Multiple eyewitnesses? Broad daylight? Sounds pretty good. McMinnville, Oregon, 1950. Paul Trent and his wife Evelyn took two or three snapshots of a disc over their house in McMinnville, Oregon. Very good, man, and it was subjected to just so much scientific analysis and the witnesses to the day they died maintained this thing and how it flew and all that stuff. Very good case. McMinnville, Oregon, right there.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  So this isn't like a doctor photo.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Oh, hell no, no.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  I have to approach these things as a comedian with a level of skepticism.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  And as you should.

• 1:45Mark Gagnon?

  And you're a New Yorker.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, as you should, but that, this, this case was dissected. They wanted so badly to debunk this case and they couldn't. It's a really, really good case. You got, yeah, you'll see multiple prints.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  What year is this?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  This is 1950, McMinnville, Oregon.

• 2:00Speaker 00

  Was it common to have a camera?

• 2:03Speaker 01

  You know what's really funny? So I talked to the reporter's son, who actually reported on this case. Because when I went to publicize, I actually did a whole piece on it for a film I did called The Phenomenon. And, and the lawyer goes, well, you know, you, you need to contact the, the guy that wrote the Life magazine article. I was like, he's fucking dead, dude, that was 1950, what are you talking about? I go, I don't know, he's got family. I'm like, come on, this is just me documenting Life magazine, 1950. He goes, I don't care. So I got in touch with the family. The son who wrote the Life magazine article in 1950 said that the, the reporter for, who's

• 2:44Speaker 01

  his dad, the reporter for Life magazine shows up and he was reluctant to, the guy who took the pictures, Paul Trent, he was reluctant, he was like, well, I still have, I still have like five or six prints left to take on that camera. And the guy goes, uh, the reporter, he goes, we'll give you a new roll, we'll give you a new camera and we'll give you some money and blah, blah, blah. And he's like, okay, so, you know, he got the pictures. And the pictures were these really romantic, they were entering a contest for like the biggest zucchinis or whatever in the garden. And, and he had his wife, you know, posing with this kind of like sexy, sexy kind of,

• 3:28Speaker 01

  you know, and he was taking pictures of his wife.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  He's taking pictures of his wife. But it's such a really funny backstory to it, you know? The only state in the Union that has legal prostitution, I think, is Nevada, right? And that's why they're going to Roswell. They go to Brazil.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Roswell's in New Mexico, that's not Nevada.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Oh, fuck.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Prostitution might be legal there, too. Don't mess up the joke, eh? But also Brazil, they're going to Brazil. You spent 17 years looking for aliens in Brazil.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  How do you explain that to your girlfriend? I gotta go back!

• 4:05Speaker 01

  I get heckled all the time, but today's heckling is so much less than it was when I first started this stuff.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  That's interesting. People used to heckle the shit out of me. You were quack back in the day, now people kind of believe it, huh?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I had a neighbor, and I was really offended by this at the time, and he didn't know that. And I was in my twenties and I was making my second documentary, I was probably 29, I was making my second documentary out of the blue at the time. And I was just about to go to Russia and, and I was taking this stuff really seriously and, you know, I was really trying to get to the bottom of what's going on. And this guy, my neighbor, he's one of these guys, like Wall Street guys, all suit and tie, drove a Porsche, you know? And we always kind of saw each other from a distance. And one time, I was living on this houseboat and he lived next door and we were walking down the plank, I was going towards him, he was coming my way. And, and he goes, ah, you're a UFO boy, like that. And I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, and then he's, he's like, tell me you don't actually believe in any of this shit, like that. Super offensive, right?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, man, I just do it for the money. And of course, I was broke, right, at the time. But that was what I was subjected to for decades. But then, the 2017 article came out in the New York Times. And it revealed the secret Pentagon UFO program and the Senate Majority Leader, Senator Harry Reid, who was behind that secret Pentagon program that started 10 years earlier, that started to kind of validate the phenomenon, for sure.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  So you think everything changed in 2017?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Big time, no question.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  I'm not familiar with that program, but I do feel like the sentiment has absolutely changed.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  So basically, what happened was, there were a couple of people, the story, the official story, that were investigating UFOs along, there was a thing, I think it was like OSAP, then it evolved into ATIP, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, you can look it up. Yeah, there's the article. And Leslie Kane, who's a friend of mine, wrote that along with Helen Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal. But in any case, the former Senate Majority Leader at the time, Senator Harry Reid, had quietly investigated, launched an investigation 10 years earlier with Senator Inoue and another Republican Senator. And I think they put away like $22 million just to do some quiet, never was supposed to get made public.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  But there were two people in protest of excessive secrecy, roughly 10 years later, one of them was Lou Elizondo, and he worked with this guy who was the former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Christopher Mellon, snuck some evidence that was like quasi-classified, but not quite classified, like they knew that, they, they found a loophole and they literally walked it out of the Pentagon and onto the front page of the New York Times. And one of those was that now notorious Tic Tac clip. Where you see that little object, you know, and then, you know, obviously all the pilots that saw it too, that laid eyes on this thing.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Go on, go on.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Anyway, and so that kind of like got mainstream media and a lot of people to realize like, holy shit, there's something going on here. And that really launched lots of investigations.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Because we couldn't explain the.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Propulsion.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  The propulsion, the science behind it. Is it possible that like, as we've started to experience more fascinating bits of science, object propulsion, drones, all of a sudden, the idea of aliens having them becomes more understandable? Like, is, is that what has changed the popular sentiment?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  So here's a big misconception with the phenomenon, right? So there was a guy who investigated UFOs in an official capacity for the United States Air Force from 47 to 69. His name is Dr. Jalen Heinecke. And he broke down, and this is all in the records, and I can give you multiple cases that he worked on directly with the Air Force. He actually broke down sightings to close encounters of the first, second and third kind. This was back in the 50s, right? Because.

• 7:53Speaker 00

  What's the first kind?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  First kind is when someone sees a UFO.

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Second kind?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Second kind, someone sees a UFO and the UFO interacts with the environment. Maybe it lands, leaves prints on the ground, photographed, radar, burns someone's face, like in the case of Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters. Those were real cases, came out in Project Blue Book, the Air Force files. Close encounter of the third kind is when witnesses report entities connected to the craft. So that, so that's Heinecke, right there. So the Air Force knew way back when, and I can give you case, I can give you some cases to justify what I'm saying. The Air Force knew what they were dealing with was not just weather balloons, misidentified aircraft, Russia or anybody else, because of the reports coming in, some of them extremely credible, of entities connected to the craft.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And these craft exhibited a technology that was light years advanced back in the 40s, 50s, 60s. No wings, no tail, no visible means propulsion, no sound. They could hover, they could literally accelerate from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye without creating an sonic boom, without any air disturbance, minimal sound. Some people heard a little humming. So if you take like the Tic Tac in 2004, I think it was, off the coast of San Diego.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  This is the Tic Tac?

• 9:05Speaker 01

  That might be the Tic Tac in different, yes, in variation. It'll shoot off to the left.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  USS Nimitz Encounter.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, so you take that and you compare what the pilots saw, okay? They'll describe this Tic Tac shaped craft with no wings, no tail, that was hovering and the airplane was flying right at it. And then it just shoots off to the left so fast, I mean, the pilots that saw it, that wasn't on the tape, said it was like, it made a mockery out of my fastest out of our fighter jets, like it literally flew rings around me. Like, Dave Fravor, if you listen to his testimony, he'll describe this object, it was like a Tic Tac. And it was shooting around over the ocean. And I also interviewed people that say that they come from space and they shoot down to sea level in less than a second. That's another story we could talk about in a minute. But they're shooting around over the, over the ocean, like, just like, he said, kind

• 9:55Speaker 01

  of randomly, just kind of doing this. What the hell is that? So he tells his guy in the backseat, we're gonna go check this out. One of the planes, there were two planes, one of them stays kind of hovering above, at whatever thousands of feet above. And Dave Fravor, the pilot, says he did, he did a corkscrew drive down towards it because he was gonna go check it out, get some eyes on it. And he goes, damn me, man, this thing suddenly just reacted to me coming at it and it mimicked my behavior, but in the opposite direction. Now it's coming up at me. So it's coming up and he's going down and they're going at each other like this, okay?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  And he's like, holy, that's when things like, whoa, this thing, this thing's reacting, there's, there's an intelligence here, it's not just a random thing. And then he said, well, I know where he's coming, so I'm gonna cut him off, I'm gonna do a loop maneuver and just get right at him, like intersect this guy. And he said, at that point, he did that loop and he was coming upon him and he said there was this like, he's called it a Tic Tac. He said there were no vents, no wings, no, what am I looking at here? What is my backseat, what's our radar looking at? Like, what is this thing? And then he goes, James, like had I blinked, this thing took off, like in the blink of an eye, just gone, like, just, I mean, 100 times faster than our jets, right?

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Now here's the kicker part. It goes to what's called their CAP point, which is the predetermined Latin launch, which is like almost beating its chest, like, yeah, I'm already one step ahead of you guys. I know where your Latin launch is like, so there's.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  It goes to where their latitude and longitude.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like a prearranged Latin launch before the operation goes down. You can look up CAP, it's an acronym, but I don't know.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  Essentially, it went to a point on the map that the original plane, the United States plane, was supposed to go to.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Which would dictate that it was aware of the information.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  But so here's the crazy part. So I interviewed a United States Air Force Colonel by the name of William T. Coleman. He was also a World War II pilot.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Before you move on on that, on this one. Does it have to do with this?

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Very much so. So I interviewed him, he had an encounter in the 50s. And when you listen to his testimony about what he saw in terms of technology in the 50s, I think it was like 1955 over Alabama, and you compare that to the testimony from Braver and all the other pilots, it's the same. They described the same technology. The shape is a little different, but it's the same technology, it's exactly the same thing.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  What happens to these people that are in the military that come out with this information?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Um, it's changing recently. Whereas before it was like, keep your mouth shut.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  So first of all, do you empathize with that decision? From the military perspective?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  So initially, yes, but now, no.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Okay, and I want to get into both of those reasons. Initially, yes, why?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Because you want to find out what the fuck's going on.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Before you cause mass hysteria. And they do have a responsibility to protect the public, so.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  The initial understanding would be.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like you can imagine, and there have been people that have made attempts to get the general public out there, I mean, I could go back to the 50s and 40s and 60s, whatever, but you know, by revealing what you know, especially like back in the 40s and 50s, you'd have to reveal your vulnerabilities to things that you don't know, right? Case in point, there was an incredible consecutive two-weekend encounter over the Capitol and the White House back in July of 1952.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  And they scrambled military jets, intercepted, I was told that one of them was shot and a piece fell down, but that's another story, but, but they had a big press conference. General John Sanford addressed the world, it was the biggest press conference since the end of World War II, and he basically admits, he's like, you know, people are seeing these extraordinary things, you know, the radar indicated these things were flying rings around our jets, that was 1952, like two consecutive weekends. They kind of went pretty far at the time, the press conference by General Sanford is like pretty damn compelling if you listen to it, he's pretty much saying like people are seeing some extraordinary things.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  And these aren't, sorry.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Like Tic Tac objects, you know?

• 14:01Speaker 00

  And these aren't dishonorable figures, right?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  But you hire somebody that was a higher up in the military because you can trust them, they can keep secrets, and they're reliable, they're disciplined individuals. A lot of times for the people in the military.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  I mean, we trust them with the security of our nuclear weapons.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  Exactly, so it's like, so this is what I'm trying to understand, it's like, why do we stop trusting them once they start sharing this information?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  They don't internally, they do externally.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  Not they, I'm saying, why does the public, why do the public start to go, oh, these guys are quacks, these guys are crazy?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  That was a, that's a very good question.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  But what do you think?

• 14:33Speaker 01

  That philosophy was adopted in 1953 by the Robertson Panel, where they basically got together, the CIA with the group triggered by this event, and they were like, well, we can't exactly deny it, but we can ridicule those who claim to have seen them, and that was a very effective campaign.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  And why would they ridicule them?

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Well, it's just, it's a debunking technique.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  But why is it so important to debunk them?

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Well, because they don't know what the hell's going on, and they want to just evaluate what's going on, they need to hit the pause button, and they're going to make a joke out of people seeing UFOs.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  Got it, okay, and we still just kind of know what's going on.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  We still kind of do this thing, so, so forget about whether you believe it or don't believe it, right? Let's just like suspend that for a moment, okay? Imagine if there were objects of unknown origin exhibiting revolutionary technology. They don't have any wings, no tail, no propulsion, they fly rings around our fastest jets, they don't have a Russian or a Chinese flag on them, right? They make a mockery out of our military, they're coming and going as they please, they're coming in and out of the oceans, they're coming in down from space, we can't catch them, we can't stop them, we can't shoot them down, maybe we couldn't back then, we don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Do you really think that any person in a position of power is going to want to come

• 15:48Speaker 01

  forward and make that statement to the world, hey, by the way, we're fucked, we've got these objects, and shall they turn to be hostile, we have no visible means of defense against them, uh, we don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want, thank you and good night?

• 16:00Speaker 00

  This is where I'm curious. Like, now it's been over 70 years, and we haven't.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Almost 80 years.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, 80 years, and we haven't been attacked, like nothing bad has happened from aliens to humans, why still keep things under wraps?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Okay, so again, we'll talk hypotheticals.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Let's say, let's just say hypothetically, that the US government has definitive proof that we're not alone, okay? Let's say they have, that they have captured that technology, let's say whether it's Roswell or Kingman or any of Gexburg 65.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  That's a big jump, though. Not alone to, now we've captured their technology.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  That would be the definitive proof needed, right? You have to have, you can't, you need more than a photograph and radar. Let's say you actually have hardware, let's, forget about the bodies, but we'll talk about the bodies. But let's just say you have hardware, all right? Whether you believe it or don't believe it, let's just imagine for a moment it's true.

• 16:57Speaker 00

  We're on board.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Okay, so how do you tell the world, without sharing that technology, that could be weaponized, okay, and turned against us, how do you tell the world you have that technology? How do you do it? You're gonna let Russia know, you can't tell your friends without your enemies? So you have something.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Even if you tell them, it's like, we have control of it.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  The scientific community is gonna go show us. Bullshit, you have it. Oh, now, we're gonna take some select members of the scientific community, we're gonna show them the technology we have in a bunker somewhere in Patterson Air Force Base?

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Would we then be attacked by our adversaries?

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Well, I'm just saying, like, let's just say, again hypothetically here, let's just say that you got one of these fucking crap, and you're like, holy shit, imagine if we could put a bomb on this thing, this thing flies rings around, all the military crap, holy, this technology is incredible, of course they're gonna want to weaponize it, that's what they do, that's what the military does, right? And you damn sure, you think they're gonna give it to Russia or the Chinese? Hell no!

• 17:57Speaker 00

  But look, we came up with nukes, we didn't give them the information on how to make it, but we showed the world that, hey, we got two of these things.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That is true, that is true.

• 18:05Speaker 00

  Could we just do that with?

• 18:06Speaker 01

  So I'm at, I'm at the place now where, let's acknowledge that we have it, how exactly we go about that, I don't know.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  And what is it?

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I think we have recovered craft.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  So you think we have recovered craft?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  I do.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Do you think we've reversed engineered the technology?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Uh, that I'm on the fence with.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  Okay, so before we get into that, why do you think we have recovered craft?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Because I've investigated cases, one in Italy, 1933, then we did Roswell in 1947, and I knew probably eight people firsthand about the Roswell case, I also.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Area 51 is in New Mexico.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  No, Area 51's in Nevada.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  That's where, that's how my joke works.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  I knew, I was like, it's in Nevada, I watched Independence Day, they're fucking trying to. Quick tour announcements, we're about to release a bunch of dates that we're going to in the fall. We've set up this system where you can literally text Schultz to 858-758-2309, or you just go to dandreshultz.com and you drop your phone number in the website, and you will be notified if we are coming to a place near you, or you'll be notified early when we are gonna release those tickets, okay? I know that we've been playing a lot of these clubs, and you know, the clubs are not that big, so you know, the tickets might go quickly, this is how we get the hour ready and how

• 19:31Speaker 00

  we, you know, get ready to do the tour, so that's gonna be happening in the fall, I want to give you guys, obviously the people who are listening to Soul Asshole Army, the opportunity to get them first, so if you go text that or you go to the website, fill it out, they're gonna give you first access to absolutely everything, and I want you guys to get that, I appreciate how much you guys support. Also, Halifax will be there August 8th at Garrison Grounds, man, Halifax, Nova Scotia, August 8th, gonna be an amazing show out there, outdoors, insane, and we've got an absolutely incredible show for you guys to go see, so come indulge, and yeah, go check that out for updates, I'm very excited to release this next batch of shows, man.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  What's up, people, great news, I'm gonna be coming to a bunch of cities at the end of the year to do stand-up comedy, I would love for you guys to join me, I'm going to Plano, Texas, Chandler, Arizona, Pasadena, California, San Diego, Detroit, and Salt Lake City, I would love for y'all to come on out, I'll see you guys at the shows.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Let me back up a little bit here, because I want to put you, I want you guys to know how slowly this took, this process took for me, because I had a really good friend in high school, Renee, shout out to Renee, and when we graduated, when we graduated. Yeah, when we graduated from high school, he's like, hey, man, let's, let's like, let's go to Europe and drive across Europe, and we'll buy a car in London, and we'll drive down to, you know, and we did this total cool adventure, and we had a great time, and it turned out to be way more expensive, and our car was breaking down half the time, we ran out of gas, got flat tires, and he was always hungry, Renee was just like, man, I'm fucking hungry all the time in Europe, the portions are so small, and they're so expensive, like he was just complaining about being hungry the whole time, and we laughed, anyway,

• 21:07Speaker 01

  he ended up going home early, and then I stayed on for a bit longer, like another year or two, and when I came home, Renee was suddenly, who was one of my best friends from high school, he was suddenly into, he's like, yeah, man, UFO crashed in Roswell, and UFOs this and that and the other thing, and I was like, this guy's lost his mind. Like, I remember distinctly thinking, this is so unfortunate, I'm losing one of my best friends, I'm gonna have to cut this guy loose, because I can't be associated with crazy. So at the time, I was apprenticing in a video production company in San Francisco, and I casually mentioned it to my buddy, this guy, Richard, and Richard goes, oh yeah, dude, you didn't know about Roswell? I was like, I mean, I heard about it, but no, of course I did, he goes, yeah, actually

• 21:49Speaker 01

  the government admitted they recovered it, and then they recanted, but most of the people that recanted later forward came forward. I was like, really? Really? And so I started looking into it, and slowly I was like, holy shit, that is true. If you look at people that posed in the photograph in Roswell in 1947, it was General DeBose, I'm sorry, Colonel DeBose, General Roger Ramey, and.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Uh, what was his name? Jesse Marcel. He was a intelligence officer. And Jesse Marcel came forward in like the seventies. And, and DeBose, I think, came forward and maybe a little later before they died on camera. And they said they made this pose with bullshit. That's a regular targeted thing. They threw it on the ground. The real debris wreckage was on the B-29, sitting on the, at Fort Worth. That was taken to Fort Worth. And

• 22:43Speaker 00

  What are we looking at right there?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  So you're looking at a target. You're looking at a conventional weather balloon on the floor. That's a, that's general, um, sorry, that's a Colonel, uh, DeBose. Well, I could show you in the photo to the right, you'll see a general Roger Ramey. And then the guy to the right of that, I believe, is Colonel DeBose. And then the guy to the far left is intelligence officer Jesse Marcel. Jesse Marcel and DeBose basically came forward before they died and said, no, man, the original story was true. Marcel said it was not of this earth. I was friends with his son who handled the debris. Like, if you listen to what they actually recovered, if you listen to the amount of debris they recovered, and you just like all, and there's been so much, like, we could go on all day about this one case.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  There's been so much, um, firsthand witnesses coming forward for so long that I'm convinced that what crashed there, the initial story of it not being of terrestrial or of earth origin is true. Again, we don't, we don't want to get bogged down in Roswell, but I'm convinced. Then I started looking at other cases. I started looking at a case that occurred in Kingman, Arizona in 1953. I started looking into a place called, uh, into Kecksburg in 1965. Leslie Kane investigated that case with John Podesta, and they actually won a lawsuit against NASA on that. Or they, or NASA was forced to pay a lot of their legal fees.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  Clinton's Podesta?

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And, um, and I started looking at, there's like a landing case that happened in 1980 at Bentwaters, England. And then I started investigating Varginha.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  This is the Brazilian?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  The Brazil case. And funny enough, when I was, I was making my second UFO documentary. It was in the late nineties and I was working with a guy named Tim Coleman, and he's a British guy. And we were like, kind of mapping out all the different cases that we were going to investigate. There was an incredible case that just happened in 97 at, uh, Phoenix Lights case, fascinating case. Massive boomerang shaped craft that, that flew over the state of Arizona in the late afternoon, early evening. And everybody was out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbop comet. So it was witnessed by thousands of people, including the governor. Great case. Anyway, we put that on there. We put Bentwaters, England, 1980.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  We were looking into this one case that happened in Tehran, Iran in 1975 with, uh, General, uh, think of his name in a second, Parvist Jafari. And, um, and my buddy goes, he goes, oh yeah, mate, we gotta do this one case that happened in Varginha, Brazil, with these live aliens, UFO crashed. These live aliens were walking around the town. And I thought, oh my God, this guy's nuts. So I just looked at him and I was like, shit, I just picked the wrong partner. This guy's crazy. Like, there's no way I'm going to spend one second looking into that absolute complete nonsense of a case. And I didn't. I made, I made, I finished, I made out of the blue. I did a director's cut of out of the blue, which took me several more years.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  And then I did another film called, I Know What I Saw. And, uh, it was a two hour special. And, and, and then I got invited to Brazil. This is like 10 plus years later. And a buddy of mine, who was former head of TriStar Pictures, he lives here in New York City, Jeff Sigansky, and he'd always been very instrumental in kind of helping me make deals when I was like really struggling on my own, behind the scenes. And one day I was just like, Jeff, you know, how come you, how come you're so kind? You help me out. You never take, when I, when you make a sale, you never ask for, you know, you just, and he goes, he goes, you know, James, I was really good friends, and I'm sidetracking, but I'll get back to my point here in a second. I, uh, I was friends with that actor that was in, um,

• 26:25Speaker 01

  I'll think of it, Jackie Gleason. And Jackie Gleason told me on a movie set one time, don't listen to what anyone ever says to you. I know for a fact UFOs are real, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he remembered that. And when he saw me, this little independent, you know, guy out there trying to get answers on UFOs, he was helping me out. He found out I was going to Brazil. I was 40, 41 at the time. And he goes, he goes, oh, James, you gotta, I had a lot of respect for him. Cause he's been really helpful for me over the years. Like, really, Jeff was like, thank you, Jeff. But he goes, yeah, you gotta go investigate the Varginha case. When you go there, you gotta, and I was like, oh my God, not this crackpot, you know, like, you gotta be kidding me. Like, how many people drank the Kool-Aid on this, you know?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  But I had so much respect for him that I couldn't just dismiss it. So I was like, sure, Jeff. Yeah, I'll definitely look into that for you while I'm there. For sure. Yeah. Click. And then I was like, yeah, I'm not going to waste one second on that case. And then I went to Brazil, unrelated. I got invited to talk about another film I made. And I met some witnesses and I thought, hmm. And then I met the guy who was pretty much single-handedly, along with Kevin Randall and, um, Don Schmidt and Stanton Friedman, who pretty much are the reasons why we know about Roswell. They wrote the books on it and interviewed a lot of the witnesses. And Stanton Friedman just happened to be in Brazil that time, invited to the same conference.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  And Stanton goes, don't be so dismissive, James. This could turn out to be the Roswell of Brazil. And based on that and the recommendations, I said, okay, Stanton, I'll look into it. So I started looking into it. And I was like, probably five years into it, and I was like, holy shit. I think this happened. And now I put my life on it. Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  And what?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  I mean, if I hadn't put my life on it, happened, didn't happen, it happened.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  What is it that happened?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  A cylindrical shaped UFO craft and entities survived.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Take through the whole story.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Okay. How much time do we have? So, um, okay, so it was January, I think, like 13th or 14th, 1996. And, um, there's the town of Varginha, Brazil, which is about five hours to the north of Sao Paulo in the state of Minas Gerais. And there was a guy that was a, Carlos de Souza. He was a, um, flew those ultralight airplanes. He was also a geography teacher. And he was, he was driving up to go ultra light flying. It was very early in the morning. And he was just outside of the town of Varginha, just outside.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  He was near a farm called the Myelini Farm. And he saw this like cylindrical shaped like cigar kind of thing, shiny, with a tear in the back and some weird vapor smoke coming out. I was like, what the? It was really early in the morning. He was driving up. He's like, God, damn, that looks like it's going to crash. Like, what, what is that? Is that some kind of, what is that? Is it a blimp? Like, he didn't know what he's looking at. And it was like this cigar shaped. And he said it was a little larger than a big school bus in America. So he's watching this thing and he's like, that thing's going down, man. That, what, you know? And it went down on this farm, Myelini Farm, and he got off the freeway that he was on.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  And he went up this dirt road. He's like, shit, those guys need help. So I'm a guy who never once thought otherworldly, right? So he drives up this dirt road. He gets up there and he comes upon a debris field, really large debris field. Most of the craft was broken up into little pieces, but there was a big part of the craft still left, probably half of it, that was intact. And he jumps out of the car and he was expecting the sound, the smell of like, you know, diesel or air, airplane fuel or whatever. But it, it didn't. It was like ammonia and, and rotten, like, like he said, it was so intense, the smell that his eyes were watering, grabbed his T-shirt and he was holding it over his face. And it was, God, the hell is this weird smell and this material?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  He picks up one of the pieces and he said it was like light as a feather. Like, he said it was just, he said it was so light, like you barely feel it in your hands. And he's like crumpling it up. And then he said he let it go and it just took its shape back. And he said, my God, this must be some kind of experimental craft, government craft or something.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  This what year?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  1996. So, uh, just then, coming in the opposite direction that he drove up, military trucks, and they come down. He was, he was threatened at gunpoint, told to leave. There's a whole backstory on all the things that happened to him. He came forward once and he vanished for over 20 years. So he's gone. So about a week later, there were three girls, and there was a bunch of other things as well in the town of Varginha. And, um, they were taking a shortcut, broad daylight, 3 o'clock in the afternoon. They're taking a shortcut during this little cinder block wall. They were like building a house project and a field with kind of quasi tall grass. And there were three girls, Liliani, Valkyria and Katya.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  And they were 14, 16 and 20, 21. And, uh, they, they were, they were coming across this tall grass. Again, broad daylight. And one of them said they saw some graffiti on the wall. It was like a cinder block wall in this field with the wall. And she's like, I saw graffiti. And I was looking at the graffiti and we were keep, keep walking through. And all of a sudden I saw like what looked like a statue of some weird creature, like looking at that thing. What the hell is that? And it was crouched kind of down, like it was suffering, like really suffering in the hot heat. It was summertime, January, summertime in Brazil. And it was kind of suffering. It was whole, it had a big head.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And it had big eyes, no hair, spindly arms and legs, maybe three and a half to four feet tall, according to the girls. And it was slouched down, suffering. And one of the girls just screamed, cause like, ah, like that. And it turned and it locked eyes with them. So at which point Liliani was 16, Valkyria was 14. Liliani thought about her younger sister, oh my God, this could be the devil, like they had these red eye, big, you know? They were scared shitless. She grabs her sister, yanks her out of there, and they high tell it out of there. They get about a hundred yards away or whatever, maybe a little more. And they realize Katya, who's 21, is still there.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  And it's locked eyes with this creature. So she leaves her younger sister there and she, she's like, I gotta go get Katya. She runs back and she grabs Katya. And Katya, to this day is like, it was saying to me, help me if you can help me. And if not, please leave me alone. Don't hurt me. Like she said, it was vulnerable. It was scared. It was suffering. It was weak. It looked like it was affected heavily by the hot sun, like the skin was like excreting like oil, like it was just suffering, according to them. They all eventually high tell it out of there. And then about two hours later, there was a police officer, Eric Lopes and this guy Marco

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Chrez, and I don't know how much detail you guys want me to get into here, but they about two or three blocks away, they were on the lookout for something unusual, but the military didn't say that they were military police. And in Brazil, if you're with the fire department, you're military. If you're with the flight control officer, you're still military. If you're with the police department, you're still military. So these guys were out on patrol for something unusual. They didn't say, hey, UFO crashed and there's aliens walking around. So they come upon this weird, strange creature was just a couple of blocks away from where the girls had the encounter, just like two hours later.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  A separate strange creature?

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yes, but, but because of proximity, it's gotta be the same one, but it, we don't know for sure.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  Ah, because it's a different time.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Just two hours later, two blocks, three blocks away, they, they come upon this thing. And Marco Chrez, the military officer, he was 23 years old, leaps out the back, they hit the brakes, leaps out the back of the car, grabs it with his bare hands, and takes it to regional hospital ultimately. And alive. And he, in the process, either had a scratch under his arm, or got a scratch under his arm, and he died within two weeks of some blood, it's some infection caused under here. So, and there were other sightings in the town, and fire department, chief of police.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Did he get to hospital with it?

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yes. So, yes. So, obviously Marco Chrez, we spent probably eight years tracking down the doctor who worked on him while he was still alive, Dr. Cesario. And then after he died, he had, he was autopsied. We interviewed the forensic pathologist that did the autopsy and provided tissue samples to the guy who owned the company, did the examination of the bacteria that they found. But those two forensic pathologists recently came forward in the last year or two, and you guys could show clips that I gave you of their testimony. But he said that it was an advanced, highly virulent bacteria that's extremely rare on

• 35:42Speaker 01

  earth, but had evolved in a way that he's never seen on earth since, or before or since. And that this bacteria, and then Dr. Cesario, who worked on him while he was alive, goes, we did everything we could to save, I've never seen anything like it. We threw the kitchen sink at him and he just died.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  This is a military officer that died?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yes, the military officer Marco Chrez died.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  To have the scratch.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Yes, he got it like under one of his armpits. But we, so we interviewed Dr. Cesario, we interviewed Dr., I'll think of the two forensic pathologist's names in a second. I've got too many names. In any case, and there were lots of other people that saw lots of military activity. People's lives were threatened when they got within a certain, tried to go investigate. We interviewed the press that tried to go investigate, they were threatened with jail time.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  What about the alien at the hospital? Who cares about the, so the alien goes to the hospital?

• 36:30Speaker 01

  So, so we think there were, we think there were probably three, maybe four, up to five different creatures. Two of them pretty much confirmed dead. At least one remained alive up to a certain point.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  The one that, this is, what's it, who grabbed it? Chrez grabbed it?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Marco Chrez, yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  And then Lopes was with him?

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Eric Lopes was the driver.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Was the driver? Okay. Anything happen to Lopes?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  I went to his house to get him on camera because he was MIA for 26, 27 years. And everyone's like, he won't talk to anybody. He's completely not, he won't even talk to the family. He ended up marrying the sister of the guy who died, his good friend. Yeah. But in any case, there are so many other little aspects of the story, people that did, other doctors that did, they're up, working with the military very discreetly. It's all, it's in a film I did called Moment of Contact. I spent years investigating.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  You're saying that an alien was brought to the hospital?

• 37:25Speaker 01

  A creature, yes.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  A creature was brought to the hospital?

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Who else sees the creature at the hospital?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  So, good question. So, we, okay, without giving away some of my people in the field that have been quietly feeding us information for over a decade, well over a decade, we had leads that, we had some names from, so, from a number of people that worked at regional hospital. But there was also testimony from Humanitas Hospital. There was Humanitas Hospital and Regional Hospital, and one other hospital that's in the area. And we approached one of the neurosurgeons that was on duty that night, that we heard that he had possibly seen him with video, because a lot of the neurosurgeons at various hospitals, Humanitas

• 38:13Speaker 01

  had cameras, and they would perform different procedures, and they would share that footage with other, you know, people in that department, hey, how did I do? So we had heard that there was a doctor, Italo Ventorelli, who was a neurosurgeon, who had, was shown footage of the creature at Regional. So we started going after him, and lots of others.

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Shown footage, though?

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Shown footage, yes.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  Who are the doctors that see the creature?

• 38:43Speaker 01

  I'll get that, I'll get to that in a second. So, so we're going after this guy, Dr. Italo. I mean, we're going after everybody. And it's, you know, people are afraid. This is like, been a slow, long investigation. People are terrified. People were threatened. Like, there's so many things to lose and nothing to gain by coming forward. But in any case, we approached Dr. Italo into my absolute shock and amazement. Couple of years ago, via Zoom call with my buddy Marco, boots on the ground, Lael, we hit him up, and he confesses, yes, I did see the video. And he gave us the name of the guy who shot the video, Marco Venesis, fellow neurosurgeon. And, but when we pressed him further on anything

• 39:26Speaker 01

  else, he was like, no, I didn't see anything else. That's all I know. This guy shot the video. And of course, the guy that shot the video is dead. So I'm like, great. So, he then has a heart attack. Dr. Italo has a heart attack. I'm putting you guys to sleep.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  No, I'm like locked in.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Dr. Italo has a heart attack, and he's lying in the ICU, staring at the ceiling, and he goes, if I get through this, I'm gonna come clean with Fox's crew. And he did. He survived. So we met him last year, went back to Brazil, and he ended up, oh, I'm giving you guys a truncated version. He ended up taking us to the exact location of where the creature was in the ICU, and said, I was here, I fucking saw it, it was alive, I had limited communication with it. I wasn't gonna tell you, I've kept this secret for 29 years, but I can't live with myself anymore. I was gonna die. My other buddy, Marcos Venesis, died. I'm not gonna take this to the grave. My grandchildren have a right to know what

• 40:20Speaker 01

  happened. That's true. I saw it. I laid eyes on it. But because he had previously said that he just saw the video and wasn't willing to come forward, people were like, well, I'm gonna question his, his testimony. I'm like, well, okay, so, if he's lying, he's not asking for a dime. He's lying to his wife. He's lying to his coworkers. He's lying to his colleagues. He's lying to his kids. He doesn't have anything for sale. And he's willing to take a public lie detector test with his hand on a Bible tomorrow. Okay? So, obviously, we don't know for sure if he's telling the truth, but I don't see a motive for him not.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Now, if what he's saying is true, and I'm convinced it is, for a number of host of reasons, it's the most significant development in the history of the phenomenon. Right? Because if true, right, you got a guy claiming face-to-face contact with a non-human sentient life form that was, as he put it, more advanced life form? The most, he said it was an advanced intelligence. I kept saying like, what do you mean? And this guy plays piano like Mozart, and he fucking does brain surgery, right? He's an incredible human being. And he goes, it was, it was like an angel. It had a higher level of intelligence. And despite the fact that it was in captivity in the hospital, it had control of the room.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  How?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. He just said it had, it had, it had an awareness, like it had, like it just looked you in the eyes, it could read your thoughts.

• 41:53Speaker 00

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• 45:56Speaker 00

  Who else was in the room with him?

• 45:58Speaker 01

  So.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  There's nurses gotta be there, like.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  So, I can't get the name of this nurse. So, I went, do you know a guy named Amar from yesterday?

• 46:06Speaker 00

  No.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Amar, do you know Amar?

• 46:08Mark Gagnon?

  I'm familiar with him.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, pretty. So Amar came, I don't know, six, eight, nine months ago, came to Brazil with me. And we were all, I brought all the doctors together for the first time in history. We documented the whole thing. And Amar did as well. He's doing a little short something on it. And I brought Dr. Cesario, I brought the two forensic mythologists. I had a number of their wives. And we got together at one of the Dr. Armando's house. He was one of the guys that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer. And while I was there, and I was asking, doctors, how long have you known Dr. Italo Ventrelli, the neurosurgeon? 35 years, 40 years, 25 years. Is he telling the truth? Do you believe

• 46:52Speaker 01

  him when he's saying this? Because if it's what he's saying is true, this is the biggest development. This is huge. And this woman comes up to me, who was, she was the nurse to one of the older doctors who did the tissue sample analysis, Dr. Janini.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  The tissue sample analysis on whom?

• 47:09Speaker 01

  So, sorry. So, one forensic pathologist, Dr. Armando, did the autopsy, and then he provided the tissue samples from that autopsy to another guy who founded the company, the lab, Dr. Janini. And he's the one that studied the tissue samples? And he's old now?

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Of the creature.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Of the guy who died from scratch.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Oh, the guy that's got to cut.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  So, and we have, yeah. So, Dr. Janini is quite old now, and he brought with him, he has three nurses on seven, eight-hour cycles, right? And the nurse that happened to be on with him that night, and Amar was there, and a number of other people there. She came up to me and she was shaking like this. And I looked at her and I was like, are you okay? And she goes, Dr. Italo is telling the truth. Dr. Italo is telling the truth. Like this. And I was like, looking at her like, how do you know? She goes, because I was there. And then she described, what I do a lot of times when, and I'm not saying

• 48:11Speaker 01

  like, you know, I'm just saying that everyone would have to be lying, right? For why? Why? So, witnesses will get annoyed with me because I am a detail-oriented guy. Like, when I want to know, like, I don't want to know what happened every second. I want to know what happened every millisecond. I want to know where the fuck you were standing, what exactly did you see, where were the curtains, where was the bed, what happened, what happened when you looked at me in the eyes, what happened when you looked in the eyes a second time? I want to know where you were standing, where was this other doctor standing, what was going on in the hospital? Was it daylight? Did you see clouds in the sky? I want to know every fucking detail, every detail. Because I want to be in that room with him,

• 48:51Speaker 01

  right? So, I had done that probably, ooh, excuse me, probably like, maybe a week or two prior to that? And to the point where Dr. Italo was getting annoyed with me. But I was like, I want to know, where was the curtain? Was the curtain open half in? Was it done this? Was it that? Was the empty line up? Was the bed angled? Was it like, I wanted to know every fucking detail, because I want to be there. And so, I said, what did you see? To the nurse. And she, just first time, we, you know, and she described exactly the scene. And I was like, okay. Either they're in cahoots, or she, oh, no question. Yeah. She described, they did a makeshift.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  Anybody else, anybody else there?

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Dr. Marcos Venises was there, but he died.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  He's dead. Anybody else? Any other nurse?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  As a right guard. So, we have leads on other doctors that had either seen the video and/or the creature as well. We have their names. Dr. Osatilio or something? And we're going after them. But, but since all this has been happening, and I've got incredible detail about what I think the creature that Dr. Italo saw, because I'm now, I got an interview with the military police, former, sorry, former chief of police, Pedro Aguiar. I got an interview with him like months before he died. I'll go into that in a second. But I'm slowly trying to piece together everything that's going on, and there's more and more developments all the time. And while this was happening, I don't know if you guys are familiar with

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Jesse Michaels on American Alchemy? So Jesse and I have done some work together, and I've been on his show a couple of times. And Jesse called me up and he's like, dude, I'm getting an interview with the former Ministry of Defense, Aldo Rebelo. He's running for president. And he's basically saying the incident happened, and if the Americans, if the Americans would declassify, the Brazilians could probably follow. So, that development happened just a couple of months ago. So, now we have the former Ministry of Defense, high level. You can look him up. And he's basically saying, yeah, this incident happened, if the Americans declassify, we will declassify. So, while all this is going on, for the 30th anniversary, which was January of this year, I worked with Burleson's office, who's part

• 51:02Speaker 01

  of the UAP Caucus, to get visas to fly in a bunch of the firsthand witnesses from Brazil to celebrate this momentous 30-year anniversary. Because everyone's talking about crash retrieval, right? But where's the case? Okay, Roswell, great. That's 1947. Kingman, great. 1953, where are the witnesses? You know what I mean? Keckburg, still got some witnesses. I interviewed a few of them. It's very impressive case. Leslie King can tell you a lot more about that. But this case was 1996. And granted, yeah, it's 30 years ago, but most of the people are still alive. Most of them.

• 51:35Mark Gagnon?

  Why did the doctor lie about seeing the creature firsthand for all these?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  He, for a myriad of reasons. He's a brain surgeon. He's a very prominent finger, influential person in the community to come forward, especially at that time, saying, you see aliens and you're going to work on people's brains. That in itself, a lot of the military was very forcefully threatening people. Doesn't, whether they got to him directly or not, I don't know. But they were threatening a lot of people that we'd seen. In fact, they were still at it when I was there. When I was there, you know, last couple of years, they were, I had the military base, ESA, look up ESA. They were calling, excuse me, they were calling witnesses that I'd either just had met with or that I was about

• 52:25Speaker 01

  to meet with, just saying really spooky shit. Just like, you know, there's an American filmmaker there poking around. Did they get in touch with you? Oh, you still living at this address? How's the white and kids? Oh, good, good, good, good. Glad they're good. Yeah, anyway, let me know if you hear from this guy. We're just kind of curious what he wants, you know, what he's doing. And then, we were either about to get an interview with somebody and they would like, you know, and they'd get a phone call. So, they were still doing that shit. But because everything that's happening, and the former Ministry of Defense, Aldo Rebelo, coming forward, and Burleson activating, so, we started to learn of, and there's so

• 53:09Speaker 01

  many aspects of this case, you guys would go on for hours. But we, when I was over there filming for the first cut of Moment of Contact, by the way, by the time this comes out, you guys can watch it for free on YouTube Movies, which is great. It's got 300 million people, so you can have access to a lot of homes for free.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  There was a guy named Marco Fettis, he's a flight control officer. And he came forward and was like, yeah, I was on duty that night, January 19, 1996, I was on duty. And this USAF plane came in and they were trying to land. And I was like, you can't land, you don't have authorization from the Brazilian government, no. And he said, a high level, this is all, I got, it's, he, high level, a military official comes in and goes, let the plane land.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Okay, so he lets the plane land, it lands in Campinas. Campinas Unicamp is exactly where the gentleman that we interviewed, Military X, I have his name and his military credentials, but in the movie, he's disguised. But he's like, yeah, I drove the alien to Campinas. I went to ASM military, I picked it up in humanitas, I drove it here, I saw it, it was in my truck. I drove it to ASM military base for the night, next morning, drove to Campinas. I didn't see it, but apparently the Americans came in on a plane and off they went. And then this guy comes forward and is like, yeah, I was on duty that night and I saw the plane, Marcos Fettis. So we have

• 54:41Speaker 00

  The plane?

• 54:41Speaker 01

  The plane, the USAF, United States Air Force plane came in. And without authorization from the Brazilian government, you have to have the specific, you know, things to land. You can't just fly into a foreign country and land. And this plane came in and landed, and now we're finding out that, and I can't reveal my sources here, but we're finding out that there were two planes that came in and landed. And we don't know what base they left from in the United States, but they came into Campinas. They had, one of them had at least one helicopter on it, they went into Virgina, they came back, loaded a bunch of stuff on there, took off.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Question.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  I'm sure you've interviewed plenty of people there.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh my God, yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 00

  Did you interview anybody, multiple people there, that gave you compelling stories as to why this did not happen?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Hmm. Because I went into it, didn't not believe in it happened.

• 55:30Speaker 00

  Uh, again, I don't ask this question.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  No, no, no, and I totally get your, yeah, absolutely.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  And what did they say? And again, I'm not asking this to question your belief or mine.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  It's more about like framing the night. Did other people that didn't know each other have similar versions of the night? That didn't include any of these events? Because if what we're doing is taking the people that didn't connect with each other, or did connect with each other, but they're independently describing what happened, i.e. the doctor and the nurse, and they're saying the exact same thing happened, we start to go, okay, well, if they're not corroborating the story, but describing the events in the same way, there is some validity or truth to this. But do you have other people who also described and go, yeah, none of this happened? It was just like a random helicopter or a kite or some shit like that, and then?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, there are a couple of

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Did anybody convince you? Did anybody make you wonder, question, confirm your disbelief?

• 56:25Speaker 01

  No, I think the girls, I think what I met with, I think when I met with the three girls back in 2012 or 2013, I was like, holy shit, those girls saw something like that, they're really credible, like really credible. So I was like, hmm, okay, what did they see?

• 56:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  And is there a connection? Like I kept saying, we gotta get to the guy, Carlos Sozo, who vanished, who allegedly saw the thing crash. Where's the connection there? You know, and I slowly, because I wasn't sure, I was pretty convinced back then that the girls had seen, I mean, I really believed them. And then the mother talked about these people, foreigners came in and threatened the family and tried to get them to take this money bribe, and they'd have to go forward and go on various news stations and say, our daughters are lying, they saw blah, blah, blah. They tried to change the story and the mother refused, she's like, my daughters aren't liars, I'm not gonna do that. And I slowly, like, and then I was starting to have the connection between, okay, the entities, are they some weird lab experiment? You know, could they be something, I don't know, something underground lab, I don't know.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, I believe the girls, but how's their connection between that and the UFO crash? Do we have that? You know what I mean? And I slowly started to put pieces of the puzzle together. Like, I'll give you another example of something that to me that didn't make sense, right?

• 57:39Speaker 00

  But did you talk to any people specifically that said this didn't happen?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  There's military people that I approached and said, it's, oh yeah, it's

• 57:46Speaker 00

  What about civilians? Because military, we might be able to sit there and go, ah, they're in on the silencing of this event.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Any just random citizens that were working in the area that were like?

• 57:56Speaker 01

  First of all, the no, the problem was is that nobody came to, I can't think of one person that came to us. We had approached them and then like tried to develop, you know. And like a lot of people had a different aspect of the encounter, like, oh, I saw the military trucks. Or I tried to go in where the girls were at the time and I got stopped at gunpoint, like, you know. But some people were like, I mean, I gotta tell you, I'd say most people in the town, they're like, I think that shit happened, like

• 58:27Speaker 00

  So most people corroborated?

• 58:28Speaker 01

  But they don't know exactly what happened, and I still don't know exactly what happened.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  Sure, sure. What I'm saying is, most people corroborate the military involvement in whatever this event was.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  Nobody questions whether the military was there.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they got, people got threatened at gunpoint, now security, like

• 58:42Speaker 00

  And then there was some sort of crash.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Nobody questions whether that happened.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so, yeah, because I went

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Outside of military personnel, which might be instructed to, you know, push a different version of the story. But regular civilians, nobody is questioning whether something crashed and military was involved.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, no question, yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 00

  Which would be a normal thing if there's a crash, military would come, right?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, but where it changes is when you've got three women in broad daylight seeing the creature and having telepathic communication, that's like

• 59:14Speaker 00

  All three of them said they have telepathic communication?

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Or was it just the other one?

• 59:19Speaker 01

  But no, they all did, they all saw it locked eyes, because when it turned, it looked at all of them. And some of them was immediate, like, help, I'm suffering, I need help, I'm suffering. And then Katia is the one that locked eyes with the longest, and she's like, to this day, I feel really bad. Because that poor creature was so helpless and vulnerable, and it needed, it was asking for help. And I laughed, I jokingly go, if it's true, could you imagine that the story changes just a little bit? Where the girls like decide to like, give this thing shelter and like, you know, as the military is hunting it down?

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Like

• 59:56Speaker 00

  It becomes ET.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but give me another example, the thing that just didn't line up for me, and I was just like

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  Why was there smoke coming out of the craft?

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, yeah.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  That's what I don't understand, because if it's not a typical engine that works on fuel or anything

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, this had a gash in it, this had a, it had a gash, this thing was damaged. It had a gash, and it was struggling to stay in the air. We had a lot of people, five, six, seven witnesses that saw this cylindrical shaped craft at different locations.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  We actually did like, we did a aerial shot with my drone, which is great. Where I'd go up really high in the sky, and I looked down and I was like, all right, this witness over here, I saw it here, we did it here. And we mapped it all out, and to our amazement, everything was lining up like, holy shit. This is where it crashed, this is where this person saw it, this is where that person saw it, you know. And then with the girls, like, and this is, there's so many aspects of the story, so many. Uh, I flew my drone over that area as well, and I looked at the capture, like shit, that's just a couple of blocks away, like. And then we interviewed this family of doctors that were just a couple of blocks away from where the girls allegedly had the encounter with this creature that night.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  And they're, they're in, you can watch their testimony, they're like, there was a disc, it was looking for something, watched it for 30 minutes, it was flying slow and low over the area. I'm going, how do you know it was looking for something? I was asking the whole family, and they were like, it was moving, they're like, flying this way, coming this way. And it's flying right over where the girls saw the creature, where the thing was captured? I don't know about you, but I think rocket science, if that's, if I'm, if their account is true, they were trying to do a fucking rescue operation to get their people, like, there's a connection to craft right there. You know, you look at like, they've got a big monument in downtown Virgina, and it's a disc.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  And I was like, shit, the thing that crashed was a cigar, why would you have a disc? Well, the discs were seen because they were looking, there were little discs looking. In fact, I got a video from 1996 that I was like

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  There were little discs that were looking

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Little flying saucers, little discs, that's what the witnesses described. After the fact. Those all sounds fucking nuts, I, believe me, I know that, I really do, you know, I remember

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  First of all, just to clarify.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  Something sounding nuts to me isn't like shocking, given the subject matter.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  So I'm never thrown off by something sounding nuts, because I have to, in order to indulge this, I have to believe in the nuts. I have to believe in the unbelievable, you know, so to me, that's not it. When I'm asking questions, it's simply like, how do I put this world together in a way that is believable?

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  Right? So I'm not going into this going, no, there's no way this happened. But if I do hear piece of information, like if they're like, the craft was smoking, I go, well, why would something that doesn't work on fuel create a, create smoke, right? If it doesn't have a typical engine, and there's some sort of like propulsion system based on gravity, even if it had a gash in it, there'd be no smoke coming out.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  Right? Like, so there's certain things where like the physics makes me ask questions.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:57Speaker 00

  Now, granted, they could, we'll go

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love to tell you some other inconsistencies that puzzled me, and I think I have a salute, I think

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  It's also very nice to know that you're also looking at these things going, this doesn't make sense to me. Because I think sometimes, I, every year with the Knicks, I become pa committed that we're gonna win for 53 years, right? And I start telling myself a story that's gonna work, and no matter who's on the team, we have a 37 year old guy named fucking Prigioni, who's from Italy, and I'm like, but he's the truth, he's the best point guard, and this is gonna get us through the playoffs, and never had. So I can understand when you dedicate your life to believing in something, it's very easy to not be skeptical of it. So I like that you're going, I was pushing back against a lot of this stuff, this didn't make sense, and you're still needing to be convinced.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and I'm at the point now where I'm like, you know, okay, I'll give you an example. So the neurosurgeon, I mean, if he wanted to just lie, he would have just said, because everybody in the whole fucking town knows about the girls. They were all over the news. You know, the girls saw it, the creature was brown, it was oily, it stink

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  And this is the 90s, like, we didn't believe when.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially in Brazil, right? So, uh, yeah, they're like a decade behind or more. But, um, he's describing this thing, and he was like

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  His smile's glowing.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  He's described Anthony, and he's like, it didn't smell, and it was more of a white with with lilac colored eyes. It was angelic. I was like, and then he said it looked out the window longingly. And I was like, all right, well, what did it see out the window?

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  The window of what?

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  The hospital building. I'm sorry, hospital building. Blue sky. Blue sky. I was like, the guys captured the creature that was alive, Marcus Rezzi, and it was like pretty much dark and raining. So that doesn't make sense. I was like, and why is it white and not brown?

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Does this thing have an ability like a chameleon to like, in the hot sun, when it's suffering, it's turned brown, and it's got this secretion of oil and stinky like a skunk? I don't know.

• 1:05:00Speaker 00

  Possible.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  I don't know. But I'd interviewed the former chief of police, and he was like, I jokingly say, he was like, trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub, because for years, we were trying to get this guy, and he seemed like he wanted to meet us, but he was just like, yeah, meet me here, then, and then he'd pull out. And I was like, super frustrating. So about a year and a half ago, give or take, we doorstepped him. And lo and behold, and it was funny, actually, because we were going to his house, somehow, somebody was like, I need to go to the bathroom, part of our crew, and we stopped at this one pizzeria place, and we're like, you know, you feel kind of obliged when you use a bathroom in a restaurant.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Buy a little something.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  To buy a little something, you know what I mean?

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  So he's like, you know what? He goes, we can whip a pizza together. I make, you know what? I'm the owner tonight. I'm on duty. I normally I'm not here, but I'm gonna whip up a nice pizza for you guys. And I was like, I don't have much time. He goes, I'll do it quickly. He'll do it, you know? So he whips up this great pizza, and we end up having some wine and some pizza and had a great time. But we were like, we're late now. We end up going to the chief of police house, we knock on the door. He's like, I just got home. You're really lucky. I just, you know, I was thinking to myself, had we not had that pizza, we wouldn't have. So I went inside, start talking, you know, and just been nice to see you again, because we'd seen each other once or twice on a resume, we'd met physically. And then we start talking, and the wife's kind of looking at us like, you know, and then we get bring another part of our crew inside, a little translation.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  And I was like, hey, you know, um, my buddy's outside, he's got a camera, would you maybe take a couple of pictures, you know? Oh, sure. Okay, sure. Come on in. And next thing you know, we're doing a full interview with the former chief of police. So we're doing the interview. He's getting more relaxed. And his wife, I'll never forget this, I got video footage of it. She had these eyeballs, almost like protruded out. And she's looking at him from across the room. And I'm looking at my buddy Dave, I'm like, Dave, you film his wife? She's looking at him, and she's not blinking. Just like, what the fuck is she doing? Like, she's just looking at him. And he starts talking, and he's got some kind of disability. It looks like he's got maybe arthritis, or some kind of something

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  going on. But he was like, former chief of police, and he's talking. And, and I said, well, can we talk a little bit about this, this story? And he's like, it wasn't a story, it was history. It's part of history. I, I participated. I know about this happened. He got really like, whoa, I guess all on camera. So I'm pressing him on potential photographs, I'm pressing him on what he saw, like what happened. And he goes really far, and he's like, it happened, it was part of history. He goes, I saw more brass as a military base than I've ever seen. They said it was an issue in national security. Don't, you know, talk about it, blah, blah, blah. He goes, but I, I saw it, and he didn't quite give me the description of exactly how he saw the creature, but that he'd seen it, he was

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  a witness. Well, we extracted as much as we could out of him at that interview. And it was great, you know? We tried to get the photograph, we, you know, any lead we could possibly follow up on. I put him in the movie. And then he dies. Couple months later. So I contacted the family on my last trip, which is just a few months ago, because I just, and I wasn't even like film, really filming. I mean, I was, my films already, I just want to know myself. So I contacted the family, and I, I go see his widow. And she's like, he told me he saw the creature, and that happened. He told me that. I said, well, I got an on-camera statement from you? And she gave it to me. And then I talked to his son, and his younger son was like, turned like 13 or 14. We took him out to a really nice lunch. And he's like, yeah, my dad said that that had happened. My dad said it, it

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  happened, but he was too afraid to talk about more details, because he just thought we were safer not knowing. But he said it happened. He saw it. It happened. I was like, okay, I'd love to get some more info. So it turns out, he's got two kids from a previous marriage. I tracked them down. And I go, and they're, they're like closer to my age, 40s, 50s. And they were like, yeah, our dad said it happened, and he participated, and he, you know, described. But then, his lawyer, we get, we have lunch with his lawyer. And Pedro had just died, and his lawyer's all, I'll tell you exactly what fucking happened. I was like, great. And we filmed the whole thing. And he goes, he was on duty, and he got a call, something crazy was happening, they were capturing some kind of thing, they

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  needed help. He was summoned to this location. It was in the morning. I don't know exactly what time, but it was in the morning. And he arrives the location, and there's two young military policemen armed. And they're probably like 20. And he's 40 something. And he's the chief of police. And they're draw the reference on him. National security, back up, back up. And he's like, I'm the chief of police. He's got his back. I'm chief of police. And they're like, I don't give a shit who you are. This is national security. I will arrest you. And he takes out his gun. So now they're having this standoff. And

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  during this standoff, two firemen are capturing with a net, one of these creatures. And he witnesses it, the capture of this creature. He was then taken to the base. And that's when, so all the little pieces that he had told us, he had given us, I'd seen it, I was at the base, I saw the military brass, I participated, to use all that language, right? So I'm going, that one was alive. It was morning. The neurosurgeon, Dr. Italo Ventorelli, said it was light daylight outside, because he, there was sun and clouds. Maybe that's the one that Dr. Italo saw. Maybe because it wasn't in a threatening environment

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  or suffering in the hot heat, it was an air-conditioned room, it didn't feel threatened. Maybe it's like chameleon. Maybe, I don't know. Or maybe it was a slightly different race or species. Maybe, right? But the one that the military officer captured was definitely at night. And he described, looking out the window, was daytime. And so now it's another piece of the puzzle. I'm starting to think, okay, maybe that's an explanation for the discrepancy. I don't know. It's speculation, right? But it's informed speculation. So, so, yeah. And there's just constantly new. And then, like, I guess, I come home, and then the former Ministry of Defense is like, yeah, it happened. And if the Americans want to declassify, and so now, and here's my thing. Like, you don't have to, I mean, you don't

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  have to believe the case to get behind the call to action to like, let's uncover what the Americans know about this. Because apparently, according to a lot of Brazilian people, Americans were involved. And if it's true, and if it happened, I'd like to know what could be more significant than that case, if it happened, right? Because it could settle the debate once and for all. And if the creature was alive, as a lot of people say it was, when it was captured, how long did it stay alive? How much information did they ultimately get out of this thing? How long did he keep it alive? Was there additional exchange of it? What was it doing? How did it crash? Where'd it come from? What was it doing here? Like, those are all things I'm dying to know. Like, I just want to know so bad, you know?

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  But it's like, you know, you put all these little pieces of the puzzle together, and there's obviously still missing pieces. And like, what happened on the American side? How many planes flew in? So now, and I could talk about this openly, because it just came out a couple of days ago. But Dave Grush, who's a big whistleblower, he testified under oath, bipartisan group of lawmakers in 2023 came forward. And he's working with Burleson's office, Congressman Burleson, has been launched an investigation into Virginia. He has very detailed notes on to the FBI, and very detailed notes to the CIA. And they are trying to

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  get, because I, we, our team sent a FOIA from 2022, I think it was, yeah, 2022, to get the flight records. We have location, we have, we have, you know, we have the date and a location. Flight records. There's gotta be some flight records, right?

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  FOIA, for anybody listening, is the Freedom of Information Act.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:59Speaker 00

  So you can petition the government of the United States of America to disclose whatever information that they deem not classified, right?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Yes. And ultimately, they sent me a response, three years later, three or four years later, to see the film. And they were like, we can neither confirm nor deny, based on the 1949 National Security Act of blah, blah, blah. And so Congressman Burleson's office took that FOIA, and he was, now he's hitting up, he's like, you can deny a civilian, but you guys can't deny me. And so those, I want you guys to share that with the public. So there's two letters. And I said to Mr. Grush, I said, you know, I wouldn't have you guys out there chasing rainbows. And he goes, he goes, my time is extremely valuable to me. And he looks at me, and he's like, you know, I wouldn't waste my time on this case

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  if I didn't know there's something to it. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like, you know? And so Burleson's working with him. And so now they've launched the investigation as of a couple of days ago. And, you know, we'll see what happens.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:08Mark Gagnon?

  We have whistleblowers, we have people have come forward, I think Trump recently is like, hey, let's release everything we have. How come all we've seen is just like the tic tac and these little like blurry images and stuff like why everybody has a 4K phone in their pocket? Why don't we have any like more like credible evidence?

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they've been using the excuse of ways and methods, ways and methods, I think is called ways and. So basically like, let's say they have a sensor over Iraq or something, some sensory data, right? I don't know, infrared or optical 4K, blah, blah, blah, satellite imagery, whatever. They don't want Iraq to know. So their excuse has been like, oh, because I have pilots and I have intel folks that I'm talking to that had seen the 4K stuff that we all want out. And they're like making this case, well, we'd have to reveal, well, scrub that data. Like, come on. Show us a plot of land, scrub the rest of the data, release it. This is happening right now. So I'm in touch with a lot of people that are part of the tax force and people that are working behind the scenes and I can show you the text afterwards, but that are saying,

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  sit tight, we're getting the low hanging fruit first. More stuff to come. There are people on the inside that have come through me and like, I've seen it, I know where this data is, it's on this server, it's on here, do the search here. And I'm passing that information to members of Congress because they, at times, there's complications going directly to the sources to members of Congress. However, they can do it through someone like me. So I can take that information and I can pass it along. You know what I mean? Like, hey, you might want to look here or over here, over there, you know? So I'm told that, sit tight, there's more and more stuff coming. And also like, you know, I say this to people because regardless of what you consider, you

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  know, what your political views are, President Trump actually has the power to take executive action. Forget about, you know, disclosure related legislation in the House and Senate, which is some is passed and some is not. And that's kind of, you know, gotten bogged down. We're launching an initiative and I could talk a little bit about it because by the time this comes out, we'll probably have gone public with it. But we're approaching a number of whistleblowers. And whistleblowers are going to make it directly to the executive branch and they're going to say, Mr. President, I know X, Y, and Z. I've seen it, I've seen the evidence, the American public has a right to know, we understand different, you know, national security issues related around the technology, however, the

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  biologics, the entities, that should be, that should be something that everyone should have access to and know about and acknowledged. And you don't have to believe them, but he's going to say, Mr. President, if you take executive action with the stroke of a pen, I will disclose everything I know tomorrow to the American public, within reason.

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  Because they're looking for immunity.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  They're looking for immunity and President Trump can provide that. So this initiative is getting launched and it's going to be a number of whistleblowers and they're going to bank it directly to President Trump. And it'll be our responsibility as influencers, you guys way more influential than I am. But our responsibility is say, hey, let's call their bluff. Come on, Mr. President, we all want to know. There's been 1.5 billion hits on the site since it was launched and the government site. People are starving to know, people want to know, people are tired of hearing, I can't tell you, it's classified, it's classified, nope, can't tell you, I go to jail, it's classified. Well, let's look for a remedy of that. Let's create a platform that allows these people and let's call their bluff. Because who the hell, if it's true, if just one of them is telling the truth, the implications

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  are global. Like, are you kidding me?

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  To Alex's point, though, he's like, you're talking about a lot of like defense whistleblowers. You're talking about people within the government, within the military.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Subcontractors, yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  And so he's asking, I think, more like, why isn't there just a dude in New York City just filming something being like, oh.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Oh, God, Google it. There's so much, you don't even know what's AI, what's not. I mean, there's so much stuff circulating online, it'll make your head spin. That's the problem, right? Because you don't know.

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  Even before AI, like I think if somebody had a picture of an alien, like.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Oh, picture of an alien, well, there's a couple that you guys should Google, one of them, and it's, because if you don't know provenance, it's tricky, right? But there are a couple that have been allegedly leaked and I have to look them up, there's two. And some of them, I'm scratching my head and they were leaked in the 90s and I'm like, mm, Jesus, that's pretty impressive. Uh, God, I can't remember the name of the damn thing, but there's a whole, people have done reports on it. I was kind of steer clear because it was a little bit, bit of a slippery slope, but things have leaked. Impressive footage has leaked. The question is like provenance, right? Like if you can't, if you don't have a source, you don't have somebody, like for instance, some stuff has leaked over Virginia.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm looking, it looks like AI, but what we need is like the doctor or maybe the military to come forward as, I guess we shot this in 1996.

• 1:19:00Mark Gagnon?

  Even you say leaked. I'm talking about, like if I saw something right now, I'm immediately taking a picture, I'm going straight to Twitter, straight to Instagram, like where, how come that hasn't happened?

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Well, of an alien?

• 1:19:12Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  Or UAP or anything like.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  I mean, if you watch my film, The Program, you'll see lots of those cases. Very impressive, very impressive. Like one, there was a passenger on an airplane and the object, I think it was one of the pilots or co-pilots, and the object just goes, we're passing it in broad daylight. It's really impressive. I mean, there was photographs in 1990, Calvine, Scotland. Look up Calvine, Scotland, 1990. That was taken by two civilians. It's considered to be one of the most impressive pictures ever taken of a UFO. I did an extensive deep dive into that and those were two chefs.

• 1:19:50Mark Gagnon?

  Is that this one?

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:52Mark Gagnon?

  That was recently released by the government.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  This is one that came out of the fourth batch of UFO files released by Trump. And this is from like 2020, from infrared.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't have a clue what the hell that looks like a balloon or something to me with lights on it, but I haven't got a clue. But, but in any case, so yeah, so that one, I'll give you an example. 1990, Calvine, Scotland. Two guys that worked at a hotel just outside, I'm going to remember the name of the hotels. They go off hiking and it's daylight. And they come upon a sort of disc or diamond shaped object, quite large, hovering, not too far off the ground. And they are flipping terrified. They're like looking at this thing like, what the hell, why is it not making any sound? What the hell is this thing? Yeah, there it is.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Boom. Calvine, Scotland. So they take, they're looking at it, it's hovering, there's all those points of reference. And, and they're terrified, they were literally hiding under a tree. I interviewed the RAF press officer Craig Lindsay who investigated for the, for the Ministry of Defense and another person who investigated, who just unfortunately passed, Nick Pope. And I interviewed the guy who found the photograph, David Clark.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  And he verified the photograph?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. So I'd heard about it, I'd heard about it in the late 90s because the guy who investigated UFOs in a physical capacity for the Ministry of Defense, Nick Pope, had told me about it and I was like, where's the fucking photograph? He's like, yeah, they squashed it. You know, he goes, we actually had a print on the wall of the MOD for years. I pestered Nick Pope for so damn long about it. Turns out what happened was two, the two guys were like, right, what the fuck was this thing? And then they, they were terrified hiding under a tree, just, it was hovering there. They didn't know what the hell they're looking at, they were terrified. And then a jet came in, it's a Harrier jump jet, came in the screen and it flew all the way around that craft and they got their camera out, one of them got courage enough and he got, and he snapped like five or six shots.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  And it was the disc itself or the diamond shaped craft was in stationary with trees and stuff. And the, the plane is at different points on the six different prints. They go to local news organization within a day or two, had some of the film footage developed, told their story, had the footage developed and, and the Scotland Daily Record was like, holy shit, this is incredible. Like usually when you get people describing a UFO, it's like, come blurry object way off the, they're like, holy shit. So they call the MOD and they want to get comment, hey, the RAF press officer Craig Lindsay, and they said, um, hey, we want to get comment on what those guys saw and blah, blah, blah, good photograph. He's like, I don't know, I don't know what they saw. There we go.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  Well, we'll send you a print. So the Scotland Daily Record took a print about that big, FedEx did whatever, to the guy at the RAF press officer and he gets the damn thing and he goes, holy shit. And he contacts the MOD and he's just like, like, you know, and the MOD is like, yeah, go check it out. So he goes and he interviews the two witnesses. And meanwhile, it's about to, they're going to go to print and it's going to, this whole story is going to go out. And the two witnesses vanished forever and the prints are gone. And the RAF press officer Craig Lindsay, who I interviewed, thanks David Clark, I interviewed and he.

• 1:23:31Speaker 00

  The two witnesses vanished forever?

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they came forward and their photos disappeared and they disappeared. And I was like, where did they go?

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  So they have a funeral?

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Nope, nothing, gone, off the face of the earth.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  But like, where's their family?

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so this, and by the time, because the story was killed.

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  Right, but they have family members, they have a job.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  Almost 30 years later that I came in and Dave Clark came in. And, and so what happened was this guy, David Clark, was going over some, some redacted, declassified notes or whatever memos. And he comes upon, everyone had heard about this case, but nobody had a photograph, nobody had the witnesses. The fucking case was just, just killed, right? Because two witnesses, six prints, broad daylight, military jet, that is the fucking last picture you want out, right? When you're sitting there telling the world, oh, there's nothing to it, then there's that with two witnesses and six prints. So, um, so RAF press officer said that he got a call from the higher ups of the MOD

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  and they were like, yeah, we'll take it from here, thanks, collect, you termination, no, don't investigate. Well, he was like, okay. And so he interviewed the two people, he, he kept that print for, forever. But I kept it in a little book, kept the print that they sent him. So David Clark is research. Tell you, so David Clark, the researcher.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Sees these redacted documents and it said RAF press officer. Blacked out nineteen, you know, whatever year it was nineteen ninety and he was like, who's the RAF press officer in this region? Craig Lindsay. Okay, find Craig Lindsay. He finds Craig Lindsay. They start talking. I don't know, it was one year or two years, however long, get to know each other a little bit. He's like, uh, yeah, I think I still have that copy, you know, really? So, long story short, he gets Craig Lindsay. I actually flew over there and I interviewed the people that were investigating the case. I interviewed and during that investigation,

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  we were looking for whoever was working at the, at the, at this apparent hotel back in nineteen ninety. The two witnesses, they were chefs. We didn't really have their names. We had maybe a name. So we're doing this whole thing and then a gentleman who was, we found, David Clark found, was working at the, at the hotel when it happened. His name was Richard, and I never pronounced his name correctly. Greaves? He's gonna be upset with me. Greaves? Greve? Greve? Greaves! And he said, I knew the blokes. Here's their names. We were all, couple of days after they were gonna go public with their story, we're having a cigarette break at the hotel

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  and this fucking car pulls up and two men in dark suits get out.

• 1:26:29Speaker 00

  No way.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Swear to fucking god. You listen to it, it's in my, I did a film, you can watch it for free on YouTube movies called The Program. And you fucking listen to this guy Greaves talking about that. He said, these guys came out, he's like cigarette breaks.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  And they fucking, we need to talk to your mates. And they go in there and he said they could see him out there in the pissing rain and these men in suits. And he said there was a driver behind the car who never got out and two guys in the back did. And they were just hammering these two witnesses in, in the rain. He says, in the pissing fucking rain. I got the whole scene again in The Program. You can watch it for free again, YouTube movies. And he said, um, they came back in soaking wet. And he said, they were wise as a fucking ghost. I'll never forget that. Wise as a fucking ghost. They started drinking heavily on the job, sleeping in their cars, didn't go home at night, sleeping in their cars in the parking lot. And then they fucking vanished forever and they were gone, they've been gone ever since.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Mark Gagnon?

  What department of the government or shadow government or deep state is responsible for keeping all this stuff under wraps?

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  I think it's the CIA, but I don't know. Oh, there it is.

• 1:27:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I wanna, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Yep, there it is. There's the guy that investigated the case back in nineteen ninety. That's Craig Lindsay, right there.

• 1:27:44Speaker 05

  They were men in black. They came in the back door. They looked white as a fucking ghost. Something happened to them. Where are they?

• 1:27:52Speaker 00

  Where are they?

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  You can continue watching. There's MOD guy talks about it. I don't know.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  So nobody's.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  I went on BBC radio. I went on every podcast in England, Scotland. I went on a podcast with a guy, James English, and he would have to adjust his accent so I could understand what he was saying. Because when he's talking to his mates, it's like you kind of need to hear, I don't know what the fuck you're saying.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  I can't even mimic the whole thing, but, so just so you know, like, I heard about that case, because I've known Nick Pope. I've been interviewing him since the late nineties. I heard about that case forever and I'm a bulldog. When I hear about something, some evidence, I'm fucking going after it. I waited twenty-six years to report on that. Yeah, twenty-six fucking years.

• 1:28:37Speaker 00

  What made you report on it?

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Because David Clark found the fucking photograph through the former RAF press officer. I don't, I don't have a story without a fucking photograph.

• 1:28:46Speaker 00

  You had heard about this prior to the photograph?

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  Yes, the MOD guy goes, this is the best, because I said to him, shit, you were at the MOD for all those years. What was the best case? Not a moment's hesitation. He goes nineteen ninety in Scotland. He didn't tell me it was Calvin, but he goes Scotland. And he goes, two guys, five pictures.

• 1:29:02Speaker 00

  And they verified the photo.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Oh, they, oh, yeah, no, you can interview, it's all in the movie. They, they, the analysis work that went down to that photograph, are you kidding me? Was just like, they dissected that thing every which way.

• 1:29:15Speaker 03

  I've heard people on Reddit try to dismiss it and it'll be like, oh, it's a, it's a rock in a lake.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's, I went to the exact location, tracked it down. I mean, I interviewed the RAF press officer. I interviewed the guy at the MOD, like, I actually even interviewed military intelligence in America about crafts like that. And there was a sighting with one of them that happened right around the same time in Europe in nineteen ninety that craft was seen. But, um, you know, so there's like.

• 1:29:42Speaker 00

  Oh, I get it. It's a rock in a lake and the plane is actually a reflection of the plane in a lake.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  That's what people will say. They're looking down. This is like the top of the fence.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Absolute, complete and utter hogwash. I can share with you the exact location that I was standing there. There's a mountain range way down below. That's sky that you're looking at. That's one thousand percent sky.

• 1:30:04Speaker 00

  They're above the fence. You understand why people could believe that it's a rock and a reflection.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I have a hard time looking at a rock and a, yeah, I mean, to me, that, yeah.

• 1:30:15Speaker 00

  Like the angle of the camera is down, not up.

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  Right, that's what, I saw the thread on Reddit and that's what some guy was trying to explain.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  If you look at that spot, I actually shot the, almost the identical picture thirty-plus years later.

• 1:30:27Speaker 00

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• 1:34:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, there is.

• 1:34:16Speaker 00

  Oh, there is a chance.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  For twenty twenty-seven, for twenty twenty-eight.

• 1:34:19Speaker 06

  Or before 2029.

• 1:34:21Speaker 00

  So guys, um, I cannot give financial advice on any of these types of things, but um,

• 1:34:29Speaker 00

  I would put the house on the fact that we are not going to, no, anytime soon. The government is definitely not going to confirm it. I mean, aliens could be walking around and they're not going to say a single thing. But uh, so I mean, look, 25% of people think they, they do. So there's a trade right there where they're willing to just hand over their money.

• 1:34:47Speaker 00

  Anyway,

• 1:34:49Speaker 00

  can we get back to this actually important conversation? Thank you.

• 1:34:51Speaker 06

  What about Phoenix Lights? Do you think uh?

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  That's a great case.

• 1:34:54Speaker 06

  Compelling footage, you think?

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  What's, what's amazing about this case is that there were so many people out into the night sky to get a glimpse of the hell bomb comet, right? That it was witnessed by all these people across the state of Arizona, but the object, and there were several objects. It was like a armada, but it was like a boomerang shaped craft and um, a lot of people had seen it. I was investigating the case in the nineties, right when it happened, right after it happened. And the governor, Five Simonson, the then governor, Five Simon, I'm friends with today. He was like, we're going to get to the bottom of this. We're going to, you know, launch investigation, we're at the Pentagon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden he holds an unscheduled, unannounced press conference. And he has his chief of staff dressed up in an alien suit, rolls them out

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  and makes a joke out of the whole damn thing. And I was pissed at the time and a lot of people that I interviewed, the witnesses were like, we fucking put you in office and you're going to ridicule like, all we're asking is for an investigation. What do we saw like, you know? And, and um, I interviewed families and it's in my movie, I Know What I Saw, that literally said, we got down on our front lawn. We just fucking like lie down and it passed over the top of us so slow. It looked like a floating city. You could see compartments and metal bit up in the craft. They go, we thought it was going to land at Sky Harbor. Like it was just super loaded. It took five minutes to pass overhead. That's how big it was. And the governor poo-poos the whole thing. So I, I ended up interviewing the governor. Okay. Here's another story where you go find somebody and their story, like they suddenly it comes out all out.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  The governor was like, you know what? I feel really bad. It's about 10 years after he goes, it was not my intention to ridicule my constituents and the people. I, you know, I was just trying to add some levity. It was, you know, mounting pressure and tension and nobody knew what it was. And I just wanted to add some levity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, hey, I got an interview with one of your former constituents and a witness to the event.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  Stacy Rhodes. And I recorded a statement from her and I played it to the governor 10 years later. And I said, and I said, and he was, he was a little uncomfortable because you could tell he was being ambushed a little bit. And I played it and it was Stacy Rhodes. He was a witness. She voted for him, constituent. And she goes, you still believe the same shit? You went out there, you lied to all of us. We're witnesses. We're just asking for an investigation and you ridicule us and go, you know, really angry. And I could tell he was like pretty damn moved by it. I was all on camera when I rolled this thing. And he goes,

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  no, I did take it seriously and we did investigate and, and I saw it too. And I knew immediately that it was not of this earth. And he was a cheat. He was a, he was in the air force. He's also a pilot. And he, he just spilled the beans right there on the spot. I couldn't believe it.

• 1:37:46Speaker 00

  This is the governor?

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  The governor. Yes. He goes, I saw it too. It was not of this earth. I said, how do you know it wasn't of this earth? He goes, the size. And it was floating slowly. And, and he goes, and I, and this is the first time in my life when this was happening. I swear to you, do you ever get that impression when someone says, you know, I had to pinch myself? Cause I was like, did he just fucking say he saw it too? Holy shit. Did I just break the story with the governor? So I reached down. I kid you not, I'm not exaggerating. I swear on my life and I pinched my leg. Cause I was like, I, this can't be happening. I didn't just get the governor to confess having seen this as well. Like this is one of the best, best mass sightings in US history. And the governor's now saying that he saw it too?

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Like holy shit. So I'm pinching myself. And I was like, no, I'm not dreaming. Then I was like, the fucking camera's not rolling. So I remember looking over to see if the camera was rolling like, cause I was like, it's my luck. The fucking camera's not rolling. And I kind of leaned forward and I look and it was rolling. And that story broke. Leslie helped break that story with me and we got.

• 1:38:50Speaker 00

  Have that on video somewhere?

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  Which one?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  I Know What I Saw. Yeah.

• 1:38:54Speaker 00

  Can we get up that clip?

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Speaker 06

  Well, I called my general at the, the National Guard. Nobody had an explanation. People just sort of said, well, we just don't know what it is.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  Phoenix Councilwoman Frances Barwood. This is an interesting side story. Let me just say this really quickly. So you know, when you see me report on these so-called men in black folks, I don't do it just, I didn't just start doing that. It took me about 20 years, roughly 20 years before I was like, okay, these guys, I've heard enough. These guys exist. So.

• 1:39:23Speaker 00

  Creepsters or men in black?

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Men in black. These dudes in suits show up and intimidate witnesses.

• 1:39:27Speaker 00

  Exfil.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Exfil shit. Exactly. So I had heard about it for so long and I was like, come on. Really? Like really? Come on. So um, I interviewed Frances Barwood, who was the councilwoman at the time. And she was like, yeah, I got a phone call. With that, her right there. She's like, yeah, I got a phone call from this guy and I didn't include it in the movie because I was like, this is fucking nuts. She goes, I got a phone call from this guy and he was like, I'm a Vietnam vet. I was on the roof. I was, I had my tripod, my camera. I had my little CB radio and I was going to get a shot of the hell bob comet over my house. And then I heard chitter chatter on the radio, on my CB radio from Interstate 10 between Tucson and Phoenix.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  These truckers talking about this fucking huge boomerang shaped craft. He's like, shit, that's heading right towards my house. He goes, I was on the fucking roof with a tripod and a camera. So I got footage of it floating right over the house. Would you like to see it? She's like, yeah, damn right I would. He goes, okay. And they made arrangements. He was going to drop it off at her office. Later that day or first thing the next day, two men in suits show up at his house. And I could, you could call her tomorrow. She'll tell you this story. Show up at his house. And he was like, oh, these guys are intimidating. At that point it was in July and it's really hot. He's like dark suits. These guys show up. Fucking 120 degrees, like the fuck? They're like, yeah, we're from Frances Barwood's office. We're here to, to pick up the footage. And he's like, oh, okay.

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  He goes, quite honestly, I was somewhat relieved like, and the only question they asked, did you make copies? He said, no. Took the footage. He doesn't hear from Frances Barwood. So he calls her. Like a week later and he goes, well, what'd you think? She goes, what do you mean? What did I think? You're going to drop the footage off? I didn't have to. You had two men from your office show up. I didn't send two, two people over. So I heard that. I didn't report on it at the time because I was like, you fucking kidding me? This is like this. But when I hear this time and time, and I could tell you stories dating back to the 1950s. I could tell you a story from 1947 of these men in suits showing up.

• 1:41:29Speaker 00

  Where are the whistleblowers? From the men in suits?

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  Were, were they?

• 1:41:36Speaker 00

  No, where are they? Like, has there ever been a men in suit that whistle blew?

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, you mean, well, funny you should say that. There was a guy named Mark, uh, something Barber. And he's like, you know, you think I'm scared of the boogeyman? He goes, I was the boogeyman. He was apparently part of the program. I don't know, but people that were armed and dangerous that would go out, the foot soldiers and intimidate the witnesses. I'm told it's CIA, but I don't know. I don't know. But yes, we've had a couple of people like, it's rumored that Lou Elizondo might've been one of those people. We don't know that for sure. Lou Elizondo is, you can look him up. He was part of the ASAP A-Tip. Pentagon UFO program. And I liked Lou a lot and I'm not trying to say that he was, but there were rumors circulating that he might've been. He's, he's kind of a whistleblower.

• 1:42:20Speaker 01

  He came forward in 2017. He said he stepped down in protest of excessive secrecy.

• 1:42:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  But anyway, so you hear that case in, in Phoenix and you think, eh, interesting. But then you hear it, you know, these men in suits showing up intimidating the witnesses from Calvine. And then you hear them showing up intimidating the witness from Virginia. And then you hear them show up intimidating witnesses from, you know what I mean?

• 1:42:44Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  And you sit there and go, I see a pattern here.

• 1:42:46Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  And that's when you go, all right, I don't have to believe any one particular person to say in this, but.

• 1:42:51Speaker 00

  Why are they all being silent?

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Why are they all like, you know? And who the fuck has got this uncanny ability to be omnipresent in every damn good case? Who the fuck are these guys?

• 1:43:01Speaker 00

  Have you ever had any encounters yourself?

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  I've had, it's funny actually, my, unfortunately, my older sister just died and she's the old guy now. It's shitty. She had, she got MS. She got MS in her late 30s, early 40s.

• 1:43:15Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  She, she, anyway, it's another story. But we were making, uh, uh, recorded statements for her kids who are now in their early twenties, Felix and Emily. And we were just reminiscing about old times and we were recording statements for the kids and then I, just, just like, not that long ago, and I said, "Remember that UFO sighting I had, Janine?" She goes, "Damn right, I remember that. You came home, I came home and you were like, ah," you know? And I never really talked about it and it doesn't really matter because my case is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with my position on, on the phenomenon. But yeah, I did have, I did have-

• 1:43:49Speaker 00

  Doesn't have nothing to do with it?

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  I don't think it does. I don't know, because I didn't really talk about it. I, it certainly, I don't know. It's hard to say. But I saw something, the only thing I know about what I saw was with my, my girlfriend at the time, Lisa. And she and I both were like, "What the is that?" Like, it was more like kind of a little blob, like egg kind of thing out our window. And she goes, "I don't know what that is. Whatever it is, I get the impression it knows we're looking at it." And I was like, "I feel the same thing." You know, "Close the blinds," you know? So that was a very unambiguous, I mean-

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  How old were you at the time?

• 1:44:21Speaker 01

  I was 20. Yeah, but I never talked about it. Actually, my sister came home that night around midnight.

• 1:44:26Speaker 00

  Where were you?

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  I was in Northern California.

• 1:44:28Speaker 00

  What part?

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Marin County.

• 1:44:30Speaker 00

  Marin County, yeah. I have a friend that works at the Marin Auto Mark.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, West Marin. I never usually generally say the name because it's kind of a thing in the town. We don't announce like, you know, but it's West Marin. But, um, and Lisa is still around today and I talked to her and Janine is like, remembered it like it was yesterday. My sister who just died and she's like, "You guys were freaked out."

• 1:44:48Speaker 00

  She also saw it?

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  No, she did not see it. She got home right after it left.

• 1:44:51Speaker 00

  So you were alone when you saw it?

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Oh no, I was with Lisa.

• 1:44:53Speaker 00

  Sorry, you were with your girlfriend when you saw it?

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  Yes, she saw it, I saw it, yes.

• 1:44:56Speaker 00

  And did you, I'm sorry, you said, "Is she still around?"

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  I said, she goes, "What the fuck is that?" And I said, "I don't know what that is, but whatever it is, I get the impression that it knows we're looking at it." She goes, "I feel the same thing. Close the blinds."

• 1:45:12Speaker 00

  And what was the shape of it?

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  It was like a blob, like, I mean, bigger than the TV. And it was like, just emitting enough light where you could almost see a little glow on our faces. It was like, like a little higher than the trees out, you know, like a, like a street lamp, like higher. Not much, but a little bit. Just kind of, you know, ambiguous, right? Like, who knows? But the weird part was that we both felt that it knew that we were looking at it and we both knew that. Like, I could call her right now.

• 1:45:41Speaker 00

  This is before you had, you would call her?

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  I had zero interest in UFOs. I didn't give a shit about UFOs.

• 1:45:45Speaker 00

  Call her.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:45:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be awesome.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Call Lisa.

• 1:45:54Speaker 00

  We gotta call Lisa, dude. This is crazy.

• 1:45:57Speaker 03

  That's how you know he's not married.

• 1:45:59Speaker 00

  You get to call your ex at any time of the day.

• 1:46:04Speaker 07

  Hi, this is Lisa.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  It's alright.

• 1:46:07Speaker 00

  Maybe she calls us back.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Lisa, call me back immediately. I don't care what you're doing. It's very important. I need you to describe the UFO sighting we had back when we were 20 years old. Call me, immediately.

• 1:46:19Mark Gagnon?

  Let's say Trump signs an executive order and he released all the information. He confirms we have alien bodies, all this stuff. Do you think humanity collapses or we just like, it's just a Wednesday and we go on?

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  I think, in my personal opinion, and I've been thinking about this for a long time. I think that it's exactly what the, what the world needs right now, to me. And I want to talk about this kumbaya moment where we get together to have a group hug, but, but I really feel like we would see ourselves for who we really are. One race, one species, right? It would really like, in my opinion, it would have a very, um, unifying effect.

• 1:46:56Speaker 00

  This is the, the Watchman Effect.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think so. You know, I interviewed, a lot of people don't believe we went to the moon. I happen to believe that we did go to the moon. Um, I was friends with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who's Apollo 14-

• 1:47:07Speaker 00

  We definitely went to the moon.

• 1:47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah, no, I totally believe that. I was friends with a number of astronauts.

• 1:47:17Speaker 00

  Maybe a little bit debatable.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  But he, he had, I said to him, "What was it like to go to the moon?" Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14, sixth man to walk the moon. And, uh, you know, I was telling you guys earlier, when I want to know-

• 1:47:28Speaker 03

  Came off the bench, man. Damn, right?

• 1:47:30Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  Sixth man of the year, though.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  When I, when I want to know, you know, a story, I'll close my eyes and I'll let the words recreate the imagery in my head. So it's almost like I'm, I'm living it, you know? And, um, I closed my eyes and he described like going to the moon and they, they have to go around the earth much time. Then they do what's called a transluterant, you know, injection and they have to get all the trajectory just right and then blast the rockets and then they toast and they go for three days through the vacuum of space and, you know? And then coming back in, he goes, "You know, quite honestly, James, I was so caught up with all the calculations and everything else. I, I might as well have been in the simulator, really, until we kind of sat on the moon. But on the way back, I had time to reflect." And he said he was looking at the earth as it was getting bigger, slowly bigger and bigger and bigger.

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  But he said he had this incredible epiphany about this deep sense of interconnectedness with the molecules and the craft, stars. And then, you know, there were no, like, borders on the earth. It was just this beautiful oasis, this blue marble suspended in the vacuum of dark space. And he said that it was just like, gosh, you know, all the wars and all the fighting and religion and just all the, you know what I mean? And he just had this incredible epiphany. He goes, "I wish more politicians and world leaders could have that perspective." Because it really, and I feel like that that would, would be the effect of this. You know, people talk about financial institutions and religious institutions being impacted.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  And then like, let's just say, again, we're going on the assumption that, that it's true, that they have craft. Let's say Lockheed got some stuff and some other company that went belly up didn't get stuff. Would they sue Lockheed? You know, like, what would happen? That that's an unfair advantage or they got these unsolicited, or, you know, bid contracts with the US government to dissect and reverse engineer this stuff?

• 1:49:19Speaker 00

  Why, yeah, why would religious institutions be affected? That's what I don't understand.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  I, I wonder about that.

• 1:49:25Speaker 03

  Joy's their whole-

• 1:49:27Speaker 00

  But there's so, but there's so much information that already does that and they're unaffected.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  I mean, they deny it for the most part.

• 1:49:33Speaker 00

  So why wouldn't they just keep denying it? Like, I get, I hear this argument all the time, like, "God forbid they found out they're aliens." The religious institutions would just all of a sudden go, "Oh, we were wrong." It's like, "Well, we got dinosaurs." And they're like, "Nah, it was not any dinosaurs." Like, there's so much proof that these things-

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Well, Jesus had to have gone and like, died on their planet and other planets and, you know what I mean? Does it-

• 1:49:52Speaker 00

  Or they just go, "No, we don't believe that these alien life forms are real." In the same way that they might be like, "No, we don't think the dinosaurs existed 65 million years ago." And like, that is your choice and you can have that faith and the institution of religion is based on this idea of faith, not this idea of fact. So I just don't, I just don't accept this idea that it would completely transform religiosity. Because I think there's so many facts out there that would already transform it for those people who decided that they did not want to have faith in this greater power.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  It does cause some type of theological reinterpretation.

• 1:50:24Speaker 00

  Sure, but like, there's been so many different iterations of that throughout history and it hasn't seemed to affect it that negatively. Maybe it's like the most impactful one.

• 1:50:34Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 1:50:34Speaker 00

  In history and maybe it does. And yes, you would have to reinterpret things, but like, you also got like Scientology. It's like, people will believe anything, right?

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  There was a, uh, there was a deer hunter that I interviewed, Ricky Sorrels, for I Know What I Saw. He's actually in that film, I Know What I Saw. And, um, he was out deer hunting in the late afternoon, very early evening. And he goes, "James, I was, I was," and he had an extraordinary encounter. And he goes, "James, I was looking down because I didn't want to step on the dry oak leaves and, and rustle and cause the deer to bolt. So I was looking down, I was very carefully placing my feet through the forest. I wasn't really paying attention, I'm looking down." And he got this feeling of something, like, just something. He's just compelled to look up. Excuse me. And he looks up and he goes, "There was this object."

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  "James," he goes, "it was so big, I couldn't see," he goes, "I got right back and I couldn't see the edge in any direction." Like, he's like, "I think a plane could have landed on this thing, that's how big it was." And, uh, he's like, "Wow, what the hell? I look at it, it's not really making any sound." So he takes his rifle, it's in the movie, takes his rifle and he's got a scope. And he's a metal worker too. So he's like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at this thing through my scope." He holds it up and he's looking at the metal and he's like, "Oh my god, there's no, there's no seams, rivets, there's no fold." Like, "Oh, I've never seen metal like this before. It was like really dark gunmetal black." He's looking at it, he goes, "Maybe I'll pull the trigger and just see what happens."

• 1:52:09Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 1:52:10Speaker 01

  You know, just like, maybe will it ping off the thing or what? He starts to squeeze the trigger and he got, you know, "Maybe that's not such a good idea."

• 1:52:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  And so, but he said, "The object," he goes, "James, had I blinked, I would have thought it disappeared in place." He said, "For an object this big, so big," he goes, "you know, you'd think it would just go like this and then go up." He goes, "It didn't do that. When it disappeared, had I blinked, I thought it would have disappeared in place." It took off straight up, no air disturbance, typical. All the things you always hear about UFOs, the technology they exhibit is just like-

• 1:52:49Speaker 00

  How could there be no air disturbance?

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  I don't know. I really don't know. There was a guy-

• 1:52:53Speaker 00

  Because the laws of physics still apply to-

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  There's a physicist by the name of Dr. Hal Putoff. And he and this other guy, Eric Davis, think they understand the physics and how it, it somehow manipulates gravity and, and spacetime. It folds things, would require a lot of energy. And, um, so making sure she didn't call. And, but he said that the impact of that sighting got him to, he was questioning his faith, everything he'd learned about man and the world. But then I've had other people, I've interviewed theologians that are like, "Yeah, God created everything in the universe." Like, it's all part of the same creation. So, I don't know, man. I'm not a theologian or a scholar in that regard and all. And I've actually got more questions than I do answers.

• 1:53:36Speaker 00

  Have you seen, have you seen Project Hail Mary?

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  No, but I love Hail Marys.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  Take Hail Marys every day.

• 1:53:44Speaker 00

  There's a.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  I'm like, fuck it.

• 1:53:47Speaker 00

  There's a.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Come on, baby.

• 1:53:49Speaker 00

  I don't know if you watched the movie The Martian. Did you ever see that movie?

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  I heard about it.

• 1:53:54Speaker 00

  Andy Weir is the guy who wrote the book that it's based on and. Anyway, it's this, it's this movie, Ryan Gosling's in it and it's really awesome. It's just an awesome movie. But what is maybe a little bit different about this movie is that like, without giving away too much of the plot.

• 1:54:11Speaker 00

  This guy, Ryan Gosling's character, has to go like kind of save humanity. There's some like microbe that's like devouring the sun. And so he has to go try to save humanity, goes out there and he encounters another alien spacecraft. Assuming that that alien spacecraft is part of this microbe that's devouring the sun. He finds out, no, it's from another species of life. Another life form that is also there to figure out why this microbe is devouring the sun, because it's devouring the sun in their galaxy as well. Anyway, point is.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  And they need that sun.

• 1:54:42Speaker 00

  Well, they need that sun. But the point is, is that it's like maybe one of the first movies I saw where like the humans and aliens are not adversaries. They actually are working together to solve this problem that they're both encountering. And every, a common goal, right? So it's like in every alien movie I see, the aliens are just trying to kill us.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  Except ET.

• 1:55:05Speaker 00

  Well, we're trying to kill them.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Not in ET.

• 1:55:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  Oh, the military, yeah, probably, yeah. Or Close Encounters.

• 1:55:11Speaker 00

  Or something like that, but it's exactly. The point I'm trying to make is like, maybe if we had kinder versions of what we would do if we encountered aliens. They would feel more comfortable coming and hanging out, but every movie that they see about us for them, we just kill them. So maybe that's why they're in some random little town in Brazil, or they're in the desert over here, they're hovering outside of you and your girlfriend's house.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:39Speaker 00

  If, if more of the propaganda for us was, hey, you guys are probably sick, we'd love to get to know you. Matter of fact.

• 1:55:45Speaker 01

  This is a really good point.

• 1:55:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:55:47Speaker 01

  This is a really good point. I don't interrupt you, but look up Ruwa Zimbabwe Aerial School, nineteen ninety-four. Because I was asking myself the same question. So when I was making my second doc. Again, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you just made me think of something that's really relevant to what you just said. While I was making my second doc on UFOs.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  Actually, no, it was my first one. It was my first one and I knew somebody, you'll see imagery connected to that craft, to connect to this site. So I had an in with Steven Spielberg. And Steven Spielberg, actually, I was amazed, I woke up the other day and he was talking about one of my movies, but I was like, super like, yay. But I tried to get an interview with Steven Spielberg back in the nineties and I said. I was assuming that, I don't know, for some reason I thought he was just granting me an interview. And of course he didn't. It was through a woman named Janet Yang. And he goes, but because James is investigating UFOs and he's doing a UFO documentary, he should look into this landing case that took place in Ruwa Zimbabwe Aerial School of a UFO that landed and the occupants got out. And I was like, this guy's out of his fucking mind.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  I had the exact same reaction to this case right here as I did to Virginia. It can't be, therefore it isn't. There's no way a UFO could land, the occupants could get out and interact with roughly sixty-six, possibly up to a hundred kids in a playground in Africa, without the whole fucking world knowing about it. Period. I mean, click on some of the imagery, those are, those are drawings done by the kids, but, so I started thinking about it. And I'm going, well shit, if I was a UFO and I'm getting shot at over military installations. This, I can give you countless cases there. We have shoot first, ask questions later. I mean, I can't think of a more benign presence than schoolchildren, than children.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  I mean, if I was gonna make contact, that's probably where the hell I'd do it. If I was getting shot at, like, you know what I mean? Like, we, we're so hostile. Like, really? We're gonna like, I feel like horrible that, like, you know, again, alleged cases. Where we take a hostile position towards the unknown, like, we should, we should put our arms down and make peaceful contact, not fucking aggression.

• 1:57:55Speaker 00

  One little thing.

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  Technology they're explaining. Do you know about this case?

• 1:57:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  This case is fucking amazing. I did a film called The Phenomenon.

• 1:58:02Speaker 00

  What were you gonna say about this?

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 1:58:03Speaker 00

  It's interesting because a lot of these cases, when witnesses and people that I've even talked to that have had like firsthand experiences, they always describe similar messages. Which I always find interesting. I'm like, are they pulling these from each other? But they're always messages of like, you need to protect, protect Earth. Like, this is a valuable resource and you guys should take a good job with it. You guys should be kind or you guys should unify and be less violent. It's like, it's a recurring theme that always comes up.

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Very, very, very good point. And I'm gonna tell you, I don't even own The Phenomenon anymore, okay? So nothing even, go watch it on the, on the, on YouTube movies. I don't own it, it's got nothing to do, I made it. It's a long story, doesn't matter, but I interviewed Senator Reed. Former Senate Majority Leader, started that UIP, that UFO project. And I asked him during a walk and talk, and I had a very limited time with him. What was one of the more interesting aspects of the phenomenon that you guys learned about during this ten year secret Pentagon investigation? Without a moment's hesitation, he goes, they're shutting off our nukes.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  And, and they're interacting with these highly sensitive military installations where we house nuclear weapons.

• 1:59:15Speaker 00

  The, the aliens are doing that.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  These objects are doing that, yes. Or you call them aliens, whatever the hell they are. Could be us coming back in the future to save ourselves.

• 1:59:23Speaker 00

  I've heard this argument that like, they start coming around once we develop the nuke and they see it as an existential threat to us. They're always spotted around nuclear testing sites, stuff like that.

• 1:59:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 1:59:33Speaker 00

  So what's the argument for that? That they're worried about annihilation?

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  So, okay, this is interesting, this is a really good point. And to your point earlier about the benign presence of children. Like, if you were gonna make peaceful contact, I'd probably do it through children. The military is gonna shoot your ass.

• 1:59:49Speaker 00

  That was your point.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's my point. But you kind of said also that to make contact.

• 1:59:54Speaker 00

  We need better propaganda.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:59:56Speaker 00

  Well, is it whatever country makes it look like whenever the aliens come, we're gonna be nice to you, is the one they're gonna go to. And if they have all the good tech, then we should make it a little bit more like, hey, come on.

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  I interviewed a launch control officer. I did a whole segment on UFOs and nukes. Robert Hastings helped me put that together with the witnesses and stuff. But I did a whole segment on these, talking about, you know, these incursions over these highly sensitive military installations. And I interviewed this one military launch control officer, Robert Salas. And he was, I could see why he was a launch control officer, because he had like this measured, calm, like temperament. Like the kind of guy that if a UFO lands, he'd be like, hey, there's a UFO, they're just, you know. Or I need to, you know, hit the switch and launch the, he was very calm, very just calm.

• 2:00:47Speaker 01

  And he goes, well, the message from an incursion that happened, I think it was Maelstrom nineteen sixty-six or sixty-eight or something like that. And he goes, well, the message was rather clear to me. He goes, it's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. So you're making contact potentially with children. You know, schools you're landing, and then you're taking and disabling these very destructive military weapons, right? They have exhibited a technology that, according to all the witnesses I've ever talked to, fly rings around our fastest jets and could make a mockery out of our you know, technology and just like destroy us immediately, but they're not. So.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  You know, perhaps we should try more peaceful contact. I don't know. Again, I, this is speculation.

• 2:01:33Speaker 00

  What do they have against the Japanese? Because they didn't really step in. They did let that one fly. That's kind of disrespectful.

• 2:01:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mentioned this on Joe Rogan, this is really cool, because I, I, I was in Africa investigating the aerial school case. And the school teacher, who's now the headmistress, Bates. She had kept all the original drawings that the children had done in nineteen ninety-four of what they saw. It's fascinating stuff. And I took photographs of all the various drawings of the entities, the craft, dah dah dah dah. And really amazing. And then I flew to Australia and I was investigating a landing case that happened at a school in Australia. It's, took place in nineteen sixty-six. It was, Shane Ryan did a, did a film on it. Westall Primary School, I believe, just outside Melbourne.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  And I was just talking about this incredible case, I was meeting with Australian researchers and I was like, God, I just investigated this landing case that took place at a school in Africa in nineteen ninety-four. And I was showing them pictures and they were like, oh, God, that looks like the Wanjina. That the Aboriginals like had talked about the Wanjina descending from the heavens, they put it on this five thousand year old cave paintings. And I was like, holy shit, like the similarities between what the children had drawn in ninety-four made hair on the back of my neck stand up straight. I was like, you know, it's one of those arguments where one could easily say, shit, this phenomenon's been with us forever, right? And maybe they took a particular interest when we became a nuclear power, started detonating nuclear weapons.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  Maybe that signaled some, a certain point in our evolution or something, or technological, I don't know. Because, you know, there has to be a connection, because there definitely is an increased, like, frequency of sightings that have happened in or around the detonation of the first atomic bomb at Trinity Site in forty-five. I've seen like a connection there. I, I make those kind of samples in a film, The Phenomenon. If anybody out there has any doubt that we're dealing with something that's. That's real. We don't know what it is exactly. Watch the phenomenon because I set it up.

• 2:03:45Speaker 00

  Break it all down.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I break it all down. I started in the early 40s and I bring it up pretty much modern day. Lots of great archival footage, lots of great cases.

• 2:03:53Speaker 00

  Can we do like a quick, um, just like a rapid fire breakdown of the most popular kind of UFO events or related sites, et cetera. So like, we know these names, for example, Roswell. Why is Roswell known? And we can just do rapid fire. Roswell. Why is that known? And why does the casual person know about Roswell? What, what exactly is it? Like, I can go, oh, yeah, I've heard of Roswell, but I don't even really know what the fuck happened there. Area 451. I know about it, but I don't really know what happened there outside of, you know, meeting with Bob.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I investigated a case, uh, through the daughter of Kenneth Arnold, Kim Arnold. And Kenneth Arnold is the one that essentially coined the phrase flying saucer in June of 1947. He was a pilot and he was flying Oregon. You can look him up, Kenneth Arnold. Anyway, his story got a lot of attention. He saw these like, what looked like these craft, almost like a stingray shaped craft. They were, he described them as like, almost like a saucer skipping across water. And that coined the phrase flying saucer. And it became headline news around the world. There he is, Kenneth Arnold. I interviewed his daughter. Coincidentally, he had a visit from, um, men, according to his daughter,

• 2:05:09Speaker 01

  that threatened him because he was incredibly famous. This, I mean, this was catapulted on the front page of the news everywhere. Look up June, whenever the sighting he had in June of, June 24th. His story was published all over, exploded around the world. Then, and everyone's like looking for what he's describing and there was a massive wave. And then Roswell happens and it was like, hey, maybe one of these discs that everyone's been talking about, we have a crash here. And apparently there were people like, why would they come all across the universe and crash? Well, who knows? Did we shoot it down? Was it interfered in some kind of new revolutionary radar systems that caused the navigation to malfunction? Who knows? Speculation.

• 2:05:51Speaker 00

  Probably female alien.

• 2:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:55Speaker 01

  So anyway, so we know about Roswell because of, you know, the Kenneth Arnold thing catapulted this whole topic into the limelight. You know, flying saucers, Roswell is the first time any military admitted to having captured one. They actually said they did, you know? It's got a lot of attention because of researchers that helped expose it. It just became kind of a household name. I'm trying to think of other cases that might have been a household name. I could think of maybe Phoenix Lights, close.

• 2:06:22Speaker 00

  Betty and Barney Hill, maybe?

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  Betty and Barney Hill is pretty, uh, pretty damn good. 1961, New Hampshire. That was a case that, uh, that Stanton Friedman had done extensive work. A lot of people did. But that was, it's a fascinating case. Um, the other, oh.

• 2:06:38Speaker 00

  Roswell was mass sighting, though?

• 2:06:39Speaker 01

  Roswell, uh, no, no, it wasn't a mass sighting. I mean, there were a lot of people that were connected one way, like Virginia, you know?

• 2:06:47Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 2:06:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my cousin's sister saw the military presence, but he was threatened. Uh, we saw, my friend was in the debris field, like this person at the impact site. It was like lots of little, you know what I mean?

• 2:06:56Speaker 00

  And then Area 51 is they were reverse engineering.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Area 51 became famous because of George Knapp. George Knapp is the one that put, um, former anonymous, uh, Bob Lazar on camera. I think it was 1989.

• 2:07:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  And that exploded.

• 2:07:12Speaker 00

  And what are your thoughts on Bob?

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  I think Bob believes everything he's saying. And I think more and more information is starting to come around where he, uh, well, again.

• 2:07:22Speaker 00

  Do you believe what he's saying?

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  I, I, I, I, I kinda do.

• 2:07:27Speaker 00

  What do you, why do you kinda not?

• 2:07:29Speaker 01

  I, uh, Stanton Friedman, who I was really good friends with, said that he tried to find his records at various institutions where he claimed to have been working at.

• 2:07:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Speaker 01

  And had a really hard time verifying.

• 2:07:42Speaker 00

  MIT specifically?

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Some stuff. But since then, since then, more stuff has been surfaced. And Luigi just did a film, S4, I think. And more and more people are starting to come around, maybe that, you know, maybe that is, I'm impressed with his character. I, I've looked him in the eyes, I shook his hand right after he came out. He said, I had no choice. That's all he said to me.

• 2:08:07Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:08Speaker 01

  And, um, I believe that he believes what he's saying and even him saying, I might have been exposed to some stuff. So if I had to say, I, I think I believe him. Yeah, I think I believe, I think I believe it.

• 2:08:18Speaker 00

  So you think that he was.

• 2:08:20Speaker 01

  It's just like me, when you asked me about Dr. Eathelow, do I believe unequivocally beyond a shadow of doubt? He had face to face contact.

• 2:08:26Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  I'm leaning heavily into believing it because I can't find a motive for him to lie. And we chased his ass down.

• 2:08:32Speaker 00

  So you think, you think he was reverse engineering the alien spacecraft?

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  I think that maybe he was called in to, to take a look at some of the stuff, quite possibly.

• 2:08:41Speaker 00

  But he claims that he was reverse engineering.

• 2:08:43Speaker 01

  No, that he was trying to, yes.

• 2:08:44Speaker 00

  Right. And do you think that we have figured it out?

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  I, I'm not convinced of that. No. I interviewed a guy named Kirk McConnell, who investigated UFOs from 2017 to 2025, I think, 2024. In an official capacity, he was in the skiff with like Marco Rubio and others. And he indicated to me that he had heard some pretty compelling firsthand eyewitness testimony of craft exhibiting this type of technology that we're talking about earlier in, in or around military installations, which would be an indication to me that if that were true, that we, maybe we have managed to reverse engineer some of this. But I don't know. I, I don't know enough to be able to give an educated or, I, I don't know.

• 2:09:27Speaker 00

  People will speculate that like a lot of, uh, technological advancements outside of even aerospace comes from recovered craft. Like? So like, people talk about like Intel chips. There's like a whole theory that that came out of like Roswell, I think. And that it was specific elements of like how silicone can be used to transfer data came from these kinds of things is what people speculate. And that they'll say that there's like connections between when it was invented and the skunks' works projects that it came out of and the timeline of crash retrieval, et cetera.

• 2:09:56Speaker 01

  I, I interviewed a guy named Philip Corso at the 50th anniversary of Roswell. That's what he's, he wrote a book called The Day After Roswell.

• 2:10:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:10:04Speaker 01

  And he talked about integrated microchips, uh, high tenacity fiber. He's, he said to me on camera, and again, I'm not saying like I totally believe, you know? I mean, he actually told me he's coming forward for his grandchildren, but he said that they found like fishing line and that the fishing line turned out to be fiber optics. They look like fishing line. Fiber optics, super tenacity fibers, high speed chips or something. And that they had unknowingly integrated some of this into the, uh, military industrial complex. Like, hey, check this out. This might come from the Russians.

• 2:10:39Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  See if you can figure this out, you know? That's what he said.

• 2:10:42Speaker 00

  People are working on it unknowingly.

• 2:10:44Speaker 01

  There were some, yes, exactly. So you take it to Lucky Martin and say, hey, we think this might be Russian. Can you guys check it out? You know, and, um, he had, he was gonna file a lawsuit against his book, uh, The Day After, I think it was called The Day After Roswell. Roswell, The Day After, The Day After Roswell. And, uh, because there were some inconsistencies, because according to him, and people have tried to debunk him because of those inconsistencies, that it was rushed to print to ride the coattails of the 50th anniversary of Roswell, which happened in July of 1997. So it went without a copy, a proper copy edit. And so he said there were some inconsistencies. And based on those inconsistencies by, by William Burns, um, according to Corso, that's what he told me,

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  that, uh, some people have tried to debunk his testimony, but I believed him.

• 2:11:33Speaker 00

  Is there any popular UFO theory that you don't believe?

• 2:11:41Speaker 01

  I don't believe, I find it hard to believe that we've been hiding that revolutionary technology for over 80 years.

• 2:11:47Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  I find that hard to believe.

• 2:11:49Speaker 00

  Hmm. Anything, okay, so you don't believe that we've been hiding UFO technology?

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 2:11:53Speaker 00

  That's quite plausible, this idea like, hey, we came across this. Can you guys check it out? And you give it to the military industrial complex and they start making things? That's quite interesting to me. Uh, okay. Any other popular UFO myth that you have debunked? This is helpful stuff because I think it almost gives more credibility than once you do believe.

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, you know, I, I, I wish so badly that I could sit here and tell you guys I knew what was going on. I really do. I want to know so bad.

• 2:12:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:12:23Speaker 01

  Like so bad, like burning desire and I'm getting.

• 2:12:26Speaker 00

  Do you think you'll know in your lifetime?

• 2:12:27Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so.

• 2:12:28Speaker 00

  And yet you still keep on searching it.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  I do. I think I, I want to know, like, for instance, uh, you know, uh, I, I feel like I could have a court case, right? And I could bring enough evidence to convince a jury that, that the phenomenon is real, that these objects have been demonstrating revolutionary technology in our skies for decades. I think I have enough compelling radar data and photographic evidence and firsthand eyewitness testimony to put that case to bed, right? Okay, the question is origins and intent. I think I could probably demonstrate a number of cases. I could think of 1964, Secor, New Mexico, where, you know, entities are connected directly to the craft and the military knew about it. And they took everything they could to cover that aspect of the phenomenon up. Um, and I could go on until it blew in the face, you know, you guys, put you guys to sleep. But about why I believe that.

• 2:13:15Speaker 01

  Um, so I believe there's, I believe there are very credible reports of, of, of entities, of non sentient human beings connected to some of these sightings, a thousand cases. So I believe that. The question is origins and intent. Where do they come from? What are they doing? What do they want? Who are they? Is it us from the future? Is it all the above? Is it time traveler? Is it people operating in a slightly different dimension? Maybe they, like a radio signal, you just change the frequency and boop, you know, all of a sudden you got, you know what I mean? I don't know. I just, I just don't know.

• 2:13:52Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  I don't know. And I think that the government doesn't really know either. And I think that's a problem because by confessing what they do know, and even if they have the bodies and technology, they don't know where they come from, what are they doing here? That can be a little scary.

• 2:14:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, because I remember Jacques Falé saying to me one time years ago, you know, when I was just like bright eyed and bushy, you're like. You know what, you know, and he looked at me and he's like, "Think of the secrecy more of a question of what they don't know than what they know."

• 2:14:25Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  And I always thought, wow, that's an interesting point. Son of a bitch, I never looked at it that way. Because if you think about it, justification for secrecy was probably pretty much like, you know, I guess secrecy was justified back in 47, they probably were like, whoa, hold on a second. Let's figure if I can figure this shit out. What the hell is this? What are these creatures? Like, you know, let's, whoa, deny it, kill the story. Of course, everybody, most of the people that were involved and killed the story came forward later and said, "The story was killed, it was not of this earth." But with justification, like, you know, hey, let's figure some of this out before we just like, freak the shit out of the world population. But now, it's like, all these years later, it's like, come on, man. Like, the jig's up.

• 2:15:09Speaker 01

  Like, people, I don't think they're gonna put the genie back in the bottle at this point. I really don't.

• 2:15:14Mark Gagnon?

  You know how you almost ignored the situation in Brazil and the other place? Has there been any other instances that you haven't reported on because there's not enough like, evidence or?

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  Vargina, for one, I went 15 years.

• 2:15:28Speaker 00

  No, he's saying besides that.

• 2:15:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, Vargina I didn't because, no, I know, I know your question. Okay, this is a second. I filmed in Vargina for 13 years and I threw it all away.

• 2:15:39Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  Because I didn't have enough.

• 2:15:41Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  So I went back to the drawing board and I got the people I needed to get and then I said, okay, I'm gonna report on it now. But I had people in Brazil go, "What are you doing? We spent 12 years, what are you doing?" I said, "Dude, we don't have enough."

• 2:15:52Speaker 00

  What about besides that?

• 2:15:53Speaker 01

  Not good enough. Yes. Um, there was a case that happened not that long ago in Las Vegas. Started looking into that, I was like, eh, I'm a bullshit meter. No, thanks, and I just, I didn't report on that.

• 2:16:06Speaker 00

  So there are a bunch of people.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  There were some witnesses that I got, I was like, eh, you know, and I'm not perfect, I don't have a perfect, I mean, I try. You know, there's some people that have some questionable backgrounds. I've done the best I can to validate, like, got their military records, I got their photographs. But people that could be a little off their rocker, I try to do a good job of sifting through it. I mean, I've worked, been at it for a long time.

• 2:16:26Speaker 00

  Have you ever been visited by the men in suits?

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  No, but it's really funny, this is really funny. So, I was at, I was at Age of Disclosure premiere in New York City.

• 2:16:35Speaker 00

  I was gonna ask, yeah, yeah.

• 2:16:36Speaker 01

  And Leslie and I, Leslie Kane, she wrote the article for the New York Times. And I see Leslie over there hanging out with some dudes in suits. And, and there was like, like the screening, then they had a Q and A, and then they went out to this aircraft carrier and they had like a catered event with little good finger foods and drinks. I was like, I need to talk to that guy, I need to talk to this guy, I was like, D I A, like, you know. And Leslie's like, you know, across the room, and Leslie and I know each other really well. I was one of the first people to put her on camera back in the late 90s or early 2000, maybe 2000. And I walk over to Leslie, she's with these dudes in suits, it's like, dude, can you be any more fucking obvious? Like, really?

• 2:17:17Speaker 01

  And she's like, this is so, so from the agency or, you know, the bureau, whatever. Started talking to them and I was like, yeah, cuz, you know, I've been investigating this case, da, da, da. And the guy goes, dude, we know exactly who you are. We follow everything you do. And he didn't say it to me in a threatening way, but it was like, yeah, dude, you're being, trust me, we know your every move.

• 2:17:38Speaker 00

  And they were FBI guys?

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, FBI, yeah, definitely, the bureau, yeah, assuming it's FBI, yeah. But, you know, I did an event at the press, on the steps of the Capitol recently, and I got pinged by someone, I can't say who, I can show you the text off air, but it was like, the second down from the DNI is gonna be watching your event, on the steps of the Capitol, you know, which is just a couple of weeks ago.

• 2:18:04Speaker 00

  So the fact that they haven't spoken to you, does it make you feel like you're not deep enough yet?

• 2:18:12Speaker 01

  Well, no, I, who said that they haven't spoken to me?

• 2:18:16Speaker 00

  You.

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  I didn't say that.

• 2:18:17Speaker 00

  I said, have you been visited by the men in the suits?

• 2:18:20Speaker 01

  Well, I would say, we've gotten together. I went into, I went into a SKIF.

• 2:18:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  I went into a bloody SKIF, you guys, it's just like a scene out of the damn movies. I got invited into a SKIF, I can't say why.

• 2:18:31Speaker 00

  What's a SKIF?

• 2:18:32Speaker 01

  SKIF is a sensitive compartmentalized information facility. It's like, almost like a lead-lined room where you can go and release classified information so that others can't spy on you. And so, I got invited, the new head of Arrow, which is, what's the acronym for Arrow? Anomalous Resolution Desk or Office?

• 2:18:49Speaker 00

  Whatever.

• 2:18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, whatever, exactly, thank you. And I got to meet the new head of that UAP task force, John Koscielowski. And, you know, talking to these guys, they're like, well, we're considering, you know, releasing this footage. And they showed it to me and I was like, that's not what this other guy saw. That you guys are gonna get laughed at if you release that, that's so inconsistent, da, da, da. And I was like, what about this case and this, and da, da, da. And we just talked about it like the phenomenon, we, we, we based our conversation on the foundation that the phenomenon is real. There's no fucking debating, like, they knew I knew my shit and they knew, you know, come on, let's not kid each other. And the head of Arrow looked at me and he goes, "James, I can't part my hair without the approval of the DOD."

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  At the time, it was DOD, now it's DOW. And you can quote me on that. And so I did. And basically what he was saying is, I don't give a shit what I uncover, because without their approval, it's not gonna see the light of day. And so, that's kind of changing, but it's interesting. And so I'd met with, I mean, I go have dinner with people when I go to DC. I meet them at various locations and we talk. And there's no discussion, is the phenomenon real or not?

• 2:20:01Speaker 00

  So when?

• 2:20:02Speaker 01

  It's like, what's coming out, how it's gonna come out, the impact it's gonna have, how are we gonna do it?

• 2:20:06Speaker 00

  So then you do know.

• 2:20:07Speaker 01

  Well...

• 2:20:08Speaker 00

  You said you don't, you'll never know in your lifetime.

• 2:20:10Speaker 01

  No, but that doesn't mean that I know what the fuck's going on.

• 2:20:13Speaker 00

  Oh, know what's going on is very different than know if there are alien life forms that exist.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  Oh, the phenomenon is real, that's, that's not even a point.

• 2:20:19Speaker 00

  No question in your mind.

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  No fucking question, none. He says, what is it?

• 2:20:23Speaker 00

  And you've spoken to higher-ups that have clearance and...

• 2:20:28Speaker 01

  Many times.

• 2:20:29Speaker 00

  And they have confirmed as much to you?

• 2:20:31Speaker 01

  Many times, many times. I had generals in the late 90s telling me, good luck with this story. Swear to God.

• 2:20:38Speaker 00

  And is it possible if this is the all-time?

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  Just cuz you know it's real doesn't mean you know what it is.

• 2:20:43Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, but this is all-time skeptic of me going like, is it possible they're, they're using you?

• 2:20:49Speaker 01

  No, no, because I went without them for 25 years.

• 2:20:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so I, that's the advantage that I have. Is that I did all the field research, I went to China, I went to Russia, I went to Australia, I went to Africa, and I talked directly to the witness, forget about the military. I'm only recently, in the last five, six, seven years, meeting with intelligence folks.

• 2:21:09Speaker 00

  Why do the alien, last, last thing?

• 2:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, of course.

• 2:21:13Speaker 00

  Why, why do the aliens have almost no interest in Europeans?

• 2:21:21Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what.

• 2:21:22Speaker 00

  What is it about that?

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  I got probably one of the best landing cases that took place in Transom Provence in 1980. And it's a UFO disc landed in a guy's yard.

• 2:21:33Speaker 00

  And then immediately it was like, these French are in there, I gotta get the fuck out of here, yeah?

• 2:21:38Speaker 01

  Smoking his cigarette, Gitan. Anyway, and this guy was building a little well. And I went to, I went to go get him on camera in the 90s. At the time, I was dating this girl, Angelica, she was gorgeous, she... I couldn't get him to come outside, he was just like, eh, you know, I'm in his yard, he's like, eh, like this. And then Angelica comes out and she's looking pretty hot in her little, you know, and he just goes, he comes right outside, I started talking to him, but eventually, just speaking of Europe, and he, he said that he was building this well, blazing hot sun in the summertime, and he sees this disc come out and land, it leaves all these trace marks on the ground, blah, blah.

• 2:22:20Speaker 01

  He wipes him home and he goes, tells her, you know, what he'd seen. And she goes, "Oh, honey, it was really hot and, you know, you were hallucinating and you, you hallucinated, you, you had heat stroke." You know, so, these are the kind of things. I'll tell you, I have a neighbor in Vermont. Three or four years, peppering me with all kinds of questions, like, gee, gee, I was like, come on. People are interested in what I do, but this guy's next level, I mean, he was like, just wouldn't stop, Jeff. And finally one day, after a year, after several years, I was like, Jeff, you really like, you know?

• 2:22:55Speaker 00

  You're in.

• 2:22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he's like, 1980, Green Bush Road. And then he tells me this incredible encounter with a flying sun, fucking incredible. He had, has this incredible encounter with his buddy, 8 o'clock at night, very close, comes home, tells his wife, same thing, she goes, "Well, were you smoking?" Like, so he didn't talk about it for 40 years. So you hear like these cases all over the world. I tell you, Mengzha Huang in China, in the Black Forest, 1994, same message the African kids got. Of like, not destructing the planet, to technology, like, better caretakers. It's just like, god damn it, man, what's going on?

• 2:23:34Speaker 00

  Do you believe the anal probe stuff?

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  You know, there's a case that happened in upstate, oh god, where was that? It's called the Alagash Four, I think it is. And it's the funniest shit ever, and apparently they got the anal probe, so to speak. But it's really, it's one of the funniest lines, Alagash Four, I think it was. And they said, they're on a lake at night and they see an orb, kind of similar to what I saw, but it's bigger, you know? And they're looking at it and on a canoe fishing at night. And, and he goes, oh, he was, the guy was like, I was a school teacher, he's like, I was kind of curious. Took what it was, took out my flashlight, do, do, do, at the object from across the lake. He goes, "That fucking thing responded immediately."

• 2:24:21Speaker 01

  It went from all the way across the lake in the trees to, boom, over the top of the fucking boat in a fucking millisecond. And he goes, it's the funniest line. He's like, "At which point my curiosity was fully satisfied."

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  But they talk about all this kind of, then they started having nightmare dreams about exactly what you were referring to. So, yeah, and then Betty and Barney Hill had talked about the anal probe. And I joke about that shit all the time, too.

• 2:24:44Speaker 03

  Cause you don't, you don't think it's bullshit, the anal probe.

• 2:24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they get subjected to various experiments like we would do when we capture a little bit of blood samples, semen samples, who knows?

• 2:24:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. I had a friend that did Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind pretty recently.

• 2:24:58Speaker 01

  Now, what exactly is that?

• 2:24:59Speaker 03

  It's bizarre, right?

• 2:25:00Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 2:25:01Speaker 03

  So, I think this comes out of-

• 2:25:03Speaker 01

  I should know what that is, and I don't.

• 2:25:04Speaker 03

  Dr. Stephen Greer, I think is the one-

• 2:25:06Speaker 01

  Oh, is that when people try to contact those things?

• 2:25:07Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:25:08Speaker 01

  Okay. See, I'm highly dubious of that shit.

• 2:25:10Speaker 03

  So, my buddy basically, he's like interested in this kind of stuff, and he's like a very straight-shooting guy. He works in like the music business and does like management and A and R and stuff. And he's always been like kind of curious about UFO stuff. So, he goes to this thing, apparently where they can summon UFOs. And he's like, alright. And so, he's like, I'm curious. So, him and a buddy, it's like a group, and they go out upstate, kind of like into like the woods, like-

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  They pay like 10 grand?

• 2:25:34Speaker 03

  Or something like that. I don't even know how much.

• 2:25:35Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 2:25:36Speaker 03

  And you kind of like do this sort of like ritual thing, and they kind of like meditate, and they sort of like, kind of like, collect their energy or something to that effect. I don't know all the details, so I'm sorry if I'm off on this. And then-

• 2:25:46Speaker 00

  Is this what the whole like sunning your asshole trend is about?

• 2:25:50Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 2:25:51Speaker 03

  Try to sun it.

• 2:25:53Speaker 01

  Show them a blueprint.

• 2:25:54Speaker 03

  Come over here, guys.

• 2:25:55Speaker 01

  You know where to go. The probe goes here.

• 2:25:57Speaker 00

  Please.

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  And he basically was like-

• 2:26:01Speaker 01

  You can't handle the truth.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  I see. He basically says like, yeah, I see all these weird lights. He's like, I see these weird bizarre lights, and they're multicolored, and they kind of like, an apparate, and they kind of like dance around, and I'm like blinking, trying to see if it's like a thing in my field of vision, is like a drone, whatever. And they get pretty close, and they look like orbs, and then they go away. And he's like, I don't know how they're able to do it. It might be like a hoax that they do, is like a group where they bring these drones in. Maybe it's a light show. He's like, I don't know what happened. And it's a very strange thing. And it's a thing that apparently anyone can go do, where you join these groups and you see-

• 2:26:33Speaker 01

  Did he wake up when his pants were on backwards?

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:35Speaker 01

  No, kidding. No. But you know, actually, I went out with a guy named Dr. Stephen Greer. And, you know, everybody in the UFO community has their, there's all this mudslinging going on. I try not to engage in any of it, because, but I remember in the 90s, I was like, I'm gonna go see if there's any validity to this summon UFO, you know. To me, I went out there just to like, basically to say it's full of-

• 2:26:57Speaker 00

  Full of shit.

• 2:26:58Speaker 01

  Full of shit. And I went out there, and I gotta say, I saw, we saw, a whole group of maybe 30. And I don't know what that were. I don't know what they were. They weren't, they, they would kind of move around and change directions. So, satellites just go like this, right? Or maybe that direction, or whatever, you know. These, we did see a couple things, pinpoints of light that looked almost like a star, maybe a little brighter, kind of changed trajectory, move around the sky. I did see that on that particular-

• 2:27:26Speaker 03

  Excursion.

• 2:27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:28Speaker 03

  And that's more or less what he said.

• 2:27:29Speaker 01

  But I was like, super ambiguous. Like, you know. But I did see something that went, okay, that's interesting.

• 2:27:35Speaker 03

  So, that's kind of how I button all these things up. Where I'm like, okay, either all these people are lying, either all these people are having these collective delusions, maybe there's being fed information by the government, or maybe there's something going on that's just weird and unexplainable. Maybe there's a military connection that we don't really know. Maybe it's all these things. But, uh, I don't know. I leave room, where I'm like, there's maybe something going on, I just don't know.

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  So, the push for, we could get answers right now, and we can call the bluff of these many whistleblowers and intelligence insiders, without asking for a penny, without asking for any congressional action, we're gonna make a direct plea to the President or Trump, and just does no harm, and with the stroke of a pen, these guys are saying, I'll give you the details needed to verify these extraordinary claims. We'll do it. Just give me immunity. Let's call their fucking bluff. Why not? The implications are so profound. I mean, wouldn't you like to know? I'd like to know what Grush knows that he can't tell us. I'd like to know what Hal Puthoff knows that he can't tell us, or Eric Davis, or Lou, or Lou Elizondo,

• 2:28:37Speaker 01

  or any of these other folks that have come forward and testified, I'll mind you, under oath, to Congress. You can get, you can get jail time for lying to Congress. You don't even have to be under oath. These guys are testifying under oath. And now they're gonna be saying, give me immunity, Mr. President, and I'll tell the world what I know.

• 2:28:55Speaker 00

  Why would they need immunity? Cause they're sharing classified-

• 2:28:58Speaker 01

  Jail time, NDAs. You look up violation of NDA, and especially if it's national security related, they'll lock your ass up and throw away the fucking key. Yeah, I mean, it's like, yeah.

• 2:29:07Speaker 00

  Alright, well, look. Grush is, Grush, how do you pronounce his name?

• 2:29:11Speaker 03

  David Grush.

• 2:29:12Speaker 00

  Grush.

• 2:29:13Speaker 01

  David.

• 2:29:15Speaker 00

  Just spill it, bro. Like, just come on, just come on the pod and spill it. Nothing's gonna happen. Nothing's gonna happen.

• 2:29:21Speaker 01

  Get President Trump to waive his, stroke of a pen. That's it.

• 2:29:24Speaker 00

  Do you really think they're gonna lock you up for saying there's aliens? People have been saying there's aliens for-

• 2:29:28Speaker 01

  Look up violation of NDA's national security. Look it up. Just Google it.

• 2:29:31Speaker 00

  Sure, but I'm saying, if they lock him up for saying it, it confirms they exist. If they don't lock him up, it confirms maybe that they don't exist, and that he's just full of shit. So, by proxy of the information, he won't get locked up.

• 2:29:44Speaker 01

  Or President Trump, give him immunity, and give all these other people immunity. Why not?

• 2:29:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:29:49Speaker 01

  Why not? They have signed NDAs, and others are risked prison time, and some fear are even worse. Protect them. Why not? What's the harm in protecting them?

• 2:29:59Speaker 00

  You heard it here first. James Fox, everybody. Thank you so much for taking this time, my man.

• 2:30:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:30:04Speaker 00

  Thank you, man. Thank you so much.