Tim Tebow on Life as Florida Legend, Aaron Hernandez Tragedy, & Saving the Children

YERRR – the boys sat down with Tim Tebow. From college football stardom to fighting human trafficking, Tim opens up about everything – the pressure, the faith, the wins, and the hope. We’re talkin’: – Rejecting Alabama, trash talk with kindness, and Bible verses on eye black – CTE talk, ego battles, misconceptions, and Tebowing in the darkest moments – Aaron Hernandez, human dignity, and why compassion is a choice – Sextortion, shame, and finding your worth beyond performance – Plus: the butt fumble, and that iconic jump pass All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 00:00 Intro 2:07 Florida, College stardom + Rejecting Alabama 10:25 Phone-call celebration, trash talking & killing with kindness 15:41 Becoming the star QB + Being liked is fickle 21:18 Can’t use CTE as an excuse 22:48 Balancing your ego + Competitive over everything 27:11 Gambling in sports 30:15 Getting respect, College parties + Honor 34:13 Partying with basketball team 35:09 Why was Tebow national + Attention 36:39 Eye black Bible verses + Bitcoin is humming 46:28 John 3:16 + Feeling shame 57:13 Dyslexia = superpower + Visual learning 1:01:09 Praying to win + Power of Tebowing 1:07:45 Dealing with misconceptions + Voice of truth 1:14:25 “Hospital for the broken” + Confidence 1:19:25 Teammates interest + Having each other’s back 1:22:28 Aaron Hernandez 1:27:25 Where does Tim’s compassion come from? 1:35:38 Fighting human trafficking + Do something now 1:46:34 Access to the internet, Sextortion + Picking victims 1:51:54 How do you cope with this? 1:56:44 Everything leading to this + Valuing humanity 2:04:52 Worth only through your opinion? Seeking morality 2:08:23 Purity test, Boasting on Him + Humility 2:12:58 Is it hard to be proud of yourself? 2:14:57 Winning Heisman Trophy 2:17:49 Laughing at the butt fumble + Jump pass 2:20:53 How to support This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. Today, we are here with the most incredible, successful, famous...

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Handsome.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Handsome, Asian-American on the planet is Tim Tebow.

• 1:13Speaker 04

  Tim Tebow! Right up for the tallest Filipino ever!

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Born and raised in the Philippines.

• 1:18Speaker 04

  For five years, yes.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  For five years.

• 1:20Speaker 04

  Could've been back a bunch. But you left out of that intro also the guy that's probably been cut the most in the NFL.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  I don't want to get there, man.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  You also performed quite a few cuts in the Philippines, as far as I know.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  I didn't perform.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't perform?

• 1:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37Speaker 04

  We have a hospital, we're sure to medical clinics, but no, I've never cut anybody.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  But you observed it.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  The guy on the bench still gets a championship ring.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  You were there, you were part of it. You were part of the process.

• 1:51Speaker 04

  But then what do you get for that? If they get a championship ring?

• 1:54Speaker 03

  You get the horse.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  See, that's the ring.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  Alright, I'm sorry. I don't want to get you in trouble. All of these opinions are ours and ours alone.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yes, these are ours.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  A humble man of God, I actually really admire you. Which is like, as a Hindu even, I think your relationship with God is awesome.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  You're a Christian, bro.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  You're the greatest college football. I'm, uh, yeah, sure, we're all the same. We're all one. God is one.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Now he's down to one God, though. I'm just saying, that's a big deal for them.

• 2:23Speaker 04

  He went for a million to like one.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  So this is a huge step, okay? Look at that. You've only been on here for five minutes. You already regret it.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  It's like two minutes.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  It's like two minutes?

• 2:32Speaker 03

  But I think you're great. I think your whole story is awesome. I think, I'm just a big fan of you and how you carry yourself. And, uh, I'm very excited to have you. I really appreciate that.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Man, you got this universe, bro, and you brought her. It's amazing.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  I'm grateful she's here. It's like, I was never really on special teams. Definitely not a kicker, but I definitely outkicked my coverage with her.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  What'd you do last night? You got in trouble?

• 3:01Speaker 03

  You know what's crazy? This is just him. I've been watching this guy for what, 10, 15 years? This is just who you are.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Dude, can you, can we go back a little bit to like? Okay, so we have a real Florida boy here. You know that, right?

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Where in Florida?

• 3:12Speaker 05

  Orlando.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Okay. And Arizona.

• 3:15Speaker 05

  I was zone for Lake Mary High School.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Okay, we also, also homeschooled too, by the way.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, also homeschooled.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Did you get razzed a lot also?

• 3:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But my problem is that I wasn't like a 6'3" quarterback, so I fit the stereotype.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  The photo kill and the beard and the outfit does not fit the stereotype of a home court.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Mark is like a really handsome guy. Like, I'm not, no, I have no issue saying that. Next to you, he looks like dog shit.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Let's get some AC in here, bro.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  I thought it was just a coffee.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  It's getting hot in here. You feeling the pressure, man? It's election day. We just wanted to bring you in here. We needed a good Christian man.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  To talk politics.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Exactly. Before he turns Muslim, so.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  How do we just move on from homeschooling?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  No, we're getting back to it. What is happening?

• 4:13Speaker 04

  It's electrolyte.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry, it's electrolytes. Okay.

• 4:16Mark Gagnon?

  Your own, from your own body?

• 4:18Speaker 04

  No, no, no, just regular.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, so you're in Florida, okay? Now, I grew up in New York City. This is, New York City, as you probably know, not like a big college football town.

• 4:28Speaker 04

  It is not.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  At all.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  At all.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm like acutely aware of you and what's happening, right? So I'm like, okay, this is something else. There's like this, there's a, there's a different level of stardom. You're walking around like on college. Can you even go to class? Or is it something where like, where people going, this is too much of a distraction? You can't go there?

• 4:51Speaker 04

  No, I still went to, I took a lot of pride in actually going to class. Sometimes it would be hard leaving class because there would be a lot of people that sometimes be waiting, especially when it would come to like Thanksgiving and Christmas, because then they would all have like the jersey or the football they'd want you to sign to give to their family for Christmas. That made it difficult. That was tough.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  So can we backtrack a little more even? So you go to Flori, you're homeschooled and then they have a rule that allows you to go play football even if you're homeschooled?

• 5:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  You play football, you win a championship, state championship with a broken fibula?

• 5:23Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Well, it happened earlier, but yes.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah, we're slicing hairs, but, okay, so you win the national championship, you go to Florida, what's that recruitment process like? Because my understanding of recruitment is they'll throw girls at you, they'll throw X, Y, Z at you. That ain't anything you're interested in.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  With all due respect, with all due respect, obviously, we know his story.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, but what's, what's recruitment like for you? It's probably different than it was for Aaron Hernandez.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I can't wait to talk about Aaron, but go on, go on, go on, go on.

• 5:53Speaker 04

  I would say, um...

• 5:57Speaker 04

  That recruiting was really unique and different from school to school. And you know, the schools that really do it well, like the Alabama's, LSU, Southern Cows, Michigans, they do it really well. And actually, I didn't think that Florida at the time recruited as well. I wasn't even interested in Florida until my senior year. They got rid of the whole coaching staff, brought in Urban and Mullen and all these great coaches. And it really changed my, I was honestly planning on going to Alabama the whole time.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Wow, that's ironic.

• 6:27Speaker 04

  Until the very last moment. And people don't actually realize how close it was. I literally had to tell the world on like, maybe December 15th at 5:00 PM in the afternoon, in an auditorium that was packed, half orange and blue, half red and white. And I was so torn, I couldn't make a decision till literally the last second. And I'm standing outside with my dad, and there's a process that leads up to it. And I couldn't make a decision. And I'm just like, Dad, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And he's like, All right, let's go back over priorities. This is five minutes before I have to tell the world. And he says, All right, Timmy, what are your priorities? And I say, It's, that is what you're telling me. It's the people. It's always about the people. It's most important. It's who you're around. He said, I agree. But can I ask you a different question? What

• 7:10Speaker 04

  if it's not about all the people, but it's just about one person? Because you can't get coached and mentored and trained by everybody. If you could just pick one, who would you pick? And I said, Man, I love Coach Shula at Alabama. If I could just pick one, it'd probably be Coach Meyer. He said, Okay. And there you go. And I said, All right. I'm gonna go to Florida.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Why Coach Meyer? Saban is, I think we'd say the greatest.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  Saban wasn't at Alabama then. Coach Shula was still at Alabama. And then they got rid of him after the next year and brought in Saban.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  You regret how it all worked out. You think maybe he could have gone Saban, dude?

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Well, he, I think he was still at Miami with the Dolphins at the time.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, okay, so you decided to go Florida.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  Well, so then I pick up the phone, and this is the funny part. I pick up the phone to call Coach Shula to tell him I'm not gonna go to Alabama, because I tried, I think that's the right thing to do. And so I pick up the phone, and I was very close with him and his family. And they're just awesome people. And I was very close. So I got emotional telling him and he had some tears and I said, Coach Ruhl, I'm so sorry, but I'm not going to go to Alabama. And he said, Timmy, you stop right there. I love you just as much now as if you came to Alabama. You're going to have a great career and hopefully I get to coach you one day. Wow. And I hang up the phone. I look at my dad and I said, Dad, I made the wrong That's the coach I'm supposed to play for. That's the one I'm supposed to play for. And then I was like, no, no, no, I'm not going to get swayed. I'm not going to get swayed. I'm not getting swayed.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  I'm gonna go to Florida. So I pick up the phone to call Coach Meyer and I got like three minutes before I have to tell the world. Pick up the phone to call Coach Meyer. I'm wiping off these tears from Coach Ruhl in Alabama and Coach picks up and he's like, Hey, Teef, how we doing? And I'm wiping off tears. So he doesn't know they're Alabama tears, but he's like, and I say, I'm good. Hey, Coach, I'm coming to Florida. And right before I say that his phone goes dead. And so he's in the car because he knows I'm about to make a decision. He's got ADD and he's trying to, you know, just drive to be able to relax. And so he stops and he's trying to get his BlackBerry charged. And I guess that's why I went out of business. I'm not sure, but he's trying to get charged back on and turning it back on. It won't go. It's going to voicemail, voicemail. And they're like, you gotta get on stage. You gotta get on stage. So I rush onto the stage and I

• 9:14Speaker 04

  sit down and my family and some friends and coaches are sitting up on stage and they're got a countdown going. Their ESPN is miking me up. My dad's sitting right beside me. And as they're miking me up and they're literally counting down, I go, Dad, Dad. And he's kind of annoyed at me. He's like, what, Timmy? And I said, Dad, I didn't actually tell Coach Meyer I'm going to Florida. I could still go to Alabama.

• 9:37Speaker 04

  The audience, the audience can't, they can't hear me. But everyone, because I'm mic'd, everyone with ESPN can hear me. And so there, you can kind of see they're like, what, what's wrong with this kid, right? Working on the production. Oh, my God. What's wrong with this kid? And I'm like, Dad, what'd I do? And they're like, five, four, what do I do? And then we go live and I answer all the questions at the end. They say, next year, where will we be playing college football? And man, on one hand, it felt like a split second. On the other, it felt like eternity. But going back and forth, I really just went back to what my dad said and why I picked Coach Meyer is I really think that his vision and his belief were different, unique and contagious. What do you mean by that? That.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Hope is a good thing, especially when we talk about it as like a faith-based thing. But hope for a college football team, it's a sucky strategy. You don't show up on Saturday and hope is your strategy.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 10:29Speaker 04

  And there's too many that hope was their strategy. But for Coach, that wasn't it. He would pull you into his office and he would, I said, Coach, Coach Meyer. I shouldn't say Coach here. You're always Coach. And he would pull you into it and he would say, hey, this is what we're doing. But if we get you and we get this player and we get this player, this is what we'll do.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:44Speaker 04

  And this is how we'll attack a defense. And so what I think great leaders do is they paint a vision of where you're at, but where you can be if you buy in and you get the right pieces. And that's what he did that was so unique and special. But then it's not just enough to have the vision. You also have to believe in it with your whole heart.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  Right? You have to believe in it. And those are two things that I felt like were so contagious and the best leaders do. They have a vision, people can see it. You can communicate it, you can command it.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  But then you believe in it wholeheartedly. And that was contagious for me. So I really felt like at the end, that was the turning point.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  I'll go through a wall for this guy. I mean, even if the way he said that.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  We're gonna get to some of his speeches. He's got some like, he's got some all-time speeches. But, okay, so you get, you go to Florida. I think, is it your freshman or sophomore year you're backing up Chris Leake? And you're using kind of like a utility player?

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  And I remember seeing you running for a touchdown and then you did some like phone celebration. You were talking a little smack.

• 11:38Speaker 04

  That was LSU.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  It was LSU?

• 11:40Speaker 04

  That was at LSU and that was because they got my phone number. And I had, I think it was the old, what was it called? Razor. The Razor? The pink one, right? And I literally, I could not flip it open and close it without answering a call. Like they leaked your number? Yeah, they leaked it and whatever. And so, I mean, it was all day. But the stuff was, it was not like trash talk.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  It was like vile things they're saying.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was like my mom's name and we're gonna burn her at the stake. And it was like my sister's names and what they were gonna do to them. And, and some were, I think, just playing, but some just take it way too far.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 04

  So when we went to that stadium, I was very upset.

• 12:28Speaker 04

  So when I, when we scored that time, I ran over to the student section and said, dial me up, keep calling, let's go. Wow.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  Probably not the most humble thing I've ever done.

• 12:38Speaker 04

  I was also very, I was charged up. It was just personal.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  No, I know. And I didn't know that backstory. And the announcers said, this is my introduction to you. They said, you know, Tim Tebow will talk a little smack to you or something. And I was like, oh, he's like a cocky guy. I didn't know you as a God fearing person, whatever. And then I found that out, but I was like, oh, he'll still talk a little trash, which I think is cool.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  Were you, were you talking some shit? No, not really to the players. I wouldn't like necessarily talk, I, a lot of trash. We had a lot of players on our team that were really good at that. I could let them do it. So they would handle it for you? There was a few times that they were so funny, like talking trash. Yeah. Like at the line of scrimmage, like I would verbally laugh.

• 13:21Speaker 04

  This is perfect. Who was the best? Who was the best on the line? Oh, well, I, I loved them very dearly. And this is just positive, not a negative way for them. But the Pouncy Twins are just, they're just the best. They're just, they're just the best. Okay. What would they, what would they say? What is a? A lot of stuff that I can't repeat and won't work. But they would, they would know certain things about the D tackle or defensive ends. And then it would just be a constant, they would just keep going through a rolodex and just wearing them out. And, and see, I, for me, it's never like that. It was more of just like when I'd get tackled and there would be a lot of stuff that people would say or spit, like, you know, we made a big deal about spitting. I can't tell you how many games someone spit on me.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Spitting, really? Oh, a lot. Yeah. And they didn't even know you're into that.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  Their mistake. It's on you. But, but one of the best ways that I've found to really bother people is, and really get under their skin, is truly with kindness. And I don't say that as a joke. Like I would get hit and if I beat them up and I was like, and they're saying something, you know, that they're trying to get in their mind. I'm like, man, that's a great hit, dude. God bless you, man. I appreciate you. I'll see you next play. Like it would drive someone up the nuts. What do you say?

• 14:46Speaker 04

  You can't say, I've had so many of those, you can't say that to me.

• 14:53Speaker 04

  And it was like, why am I gonna, I'm not, I'm not gonna play the same game.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's smart.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  That's been you into what you are. You know what I mean?

• 15:01Speaker 04

  Well, it's, you know, there, don't get me wrong, there's some times that my temper was definitely close to getting the best of me.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 07

  Yo, I got one show, there is one show booked, okay? We did not hit Providence, Rhode Island, last tour. Shout out Providence, got a great comedy club out there, the Comedy Connection, but this will be part of their comedy festival. It is at the Providence Performing Arts Center, if I am not mistaken. Performing Arts Theater, Center, whatever. March 28th, 2026, that is up on sale right now. We'll see you in March.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Also, guys, tour dates, there's only one I care about right now. This is a literal dream come true. Radio Fucking City Music Hall. Everybody who watches podcasts, thank all of y'all. I love you guys. April 18th.

• 15:56Speaker 07

  We're pulling up.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  Sell that shit out. Let's go. I promise you it's gonna be the best show I've ever done. Hopefully the best show you've ever been to. Akashsing.com for tickets. Pre-sale is live now. Use the code AKASH. I love y'all. Let's get back to the show.

• 16:07Speaker 07

  It's live now?

• 16:08Speaker 03

  Live now.

• 16:09Speaker 07

  Suck his dick.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Suck his dick.

• 16:11Speaker 07

  Suck his dick. But for real, light it up. Go get those tickets right now. We're all showing up. April 18th.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  18th.

• 16:18Speaker 07

  Radio City Music Hall. Let's do it.

• 16:20Speaker 05

  What's up, people? Your boy Mark Gag. I'm coming on the road. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Chicago, Hoboken, and many more dates to be announced. I cannot wait to see you guys there. Come on out, see me on the road. One singular hour of stand-up comedy. Some have said that it is, it is this, one of the stand-up comedy shows of the, of 2025. So I'll see you guys there, all right?

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Freshman year, y'all won the national championship. You beat OSU, I believe, right?

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then, so you're kind of utility guy. What's that like when Chris Leek leaves with the starting QB and it's like now it's your show? And I remember there was hype about you, but like, I don't think we knew how you would lead an offense, et cetera.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think there was a lot of, um, I think, two things. One- Then there was, I got to play a lot of crucial moments. Most of the time I got to play, it was the red zone, third down, fourth down. So when I'd run into the game, you don't get first and second down to prepare, right? So you, that really helps you though, because when you're, you're thrown in there, you're playing in a critical moment of a critical game.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:18Speaker 04

  Right? So you, you don't have time to kind of warm up. I think that really helped handling the pressure then for the next year, but there was a lot of.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Externally, I mean, the pressure, the noise, like, I think they won the basketball championship too, didn't they?

• 17:30Speaker 04

  We did, it was awesome.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  But now you gotta repeat the pressure.

• 17:33Speaker 04

  Joe Kim, Noah Al Horford, Corey Brewer, the whole squad. It was unreal.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  Corey Brewer is dear to my heart. He helped the Mavs win a championship with one amazing playoff game. I love him forever, but.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  But he won two championships with us, so I'll always love him too.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  But the pressure that's on you coming in.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  What a year.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Off of that success.

• 17:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  And people don't trust you as a QB yet.

• 17:51Speaker 04

  No, and I think that, I think that a lot of where the, they were skeptical of, well, can you do more than just third, fourth down, red zone? Can you be a quarterback, a full-time quarterback? Or can you actually sustain getting hit that much?

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Can you actually play that physical, the style of football?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  And so there was a lot of, of criticism that took place and, um, leading up to that season. And I just, I've always been a people pleaser. I think one of my, uh, big flaw for me is being a people pleaser.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  That's how we got you on this podcast.

• 18:23Speaker 04

  No, but it really, it really is a, a, you know, sometimes it can be an okay thing, but sometimes it can be a downfall.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  Right? You want to please people. And I remember just hearing all of that noise and criticism going into that next season. I remember, um, reading a book about Winston Churchill and he has a quote, um, or he says, "If you have enemies, good. It means you stood for something at least once in your life." And I thought, dang, can that really be true? How can it be good to have enemies? But you see, one of the things about Winston Churchill is this was a time in his life when most of the world couldn't stand him. The allies thought he was losing the war and everybody else was his enemy, right? But he stood by his convictions in such a way that maybe they couldn't understand it, but later they would come to respect it. And one of the, the things that kind of switched and.

• 19:11Speaker 04

  That I still have to work on on a daily basis is trying to go from being liked to strive to be respected. Cause there's a big difference. Like, could you imagine on social media, if it wasn't a like button, if it was a respect button? What would be the difference though? You'd get a lot less of those, most people would.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  But in my mind, you know, sometimes I just try to make things very practical.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  It's a really good point because being liked is oftentimes just repeating what somebody else feels or thinks. Yeah, it is difficult because the second you divert from their feelings.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Instant.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  They hate you.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  Yes, you say one thing we agree with, you say one political stance, one faith-based stance, one, you know, stance on anything you're convicted by. And if it just likes, you know, then it's gone. But if it's deeper than that, if it's based on respect, which ultimately a hope and prayer for our society is we would take the next level of honoring and respecting people. Not just liking or disliking people because it's so surface and fickle.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, that's the, that's like the dehumanization problem, I think.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Where it's like, you get this like two dimensional view of everybody. And I think the internet kind of.

• 20:22Speaker 04

  I would love to talk about it.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, like.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  I think you have a very unique perspective.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  But just to get it out is like, yeah, you don't really see people as like full people. You see them as these like digital avatars, right? So there's this like, people have an idea of you depending on like what their existing beliefs already are. So there are some people.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  What the media has said.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Exactly, but like.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  And they have stereotypes that are built out.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Depending on what the media says, right? Cause there's a bunch of different like media platforms right now, like the people that like you will get the good things that people say about you. And the people that don't like you will get the bad. And they, neither of them have an accurate idea of you.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, the people that praise me, they don't see all the flaws and the people that hate you, they don't see your heart and trying to do good. And there's a mixture. And I think that's one of the things that was a lot for me of feeling just.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  Not enough sometimes when I go into a stadium, especially in college early on was, man.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Even with all your success?

• 21:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it's almost bigger. It was like, if this goes good, then I'll get way too much praise, way too much praise.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  That you don't feel like you deserve?

• 21:31Speaker 04

  No, that it's for the whole team. We had a freaking amazing team and it would be too much praise for this. But if there's, if we lose, then you're gonna get criticized by the majority of the country and you're just kind of.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  There's a tension in the weight.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I don't want to interrupt you. I want to give context for people who don't know college football. In the South, where you went to college especially, it is a religion. These are 18, 19, 20 year old kids.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  For some people more so.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is. People are so, if you went to Alabama, you went to like people, that's all they care about. There's nothing else for them. It's this. So that kind of pressure on 18, 19 year old kid walking into a stadium is a lot, man. I just want to give some context to what that is.

• 22:09Speaker 04

  It really is. It's a lot. It's a, for a lot of countries, maybe they could compare it to some, the intensity of soccer in certain places. Where my wife's from, they could compare it to rugby or cricket.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  But she also gives me a hard time. She's like, no, all you football players are soft because all our rugby players, they don't need to wear pads. So you all gotta wear pads.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  It's the pads that are dangerous.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Like not, I mean, that's what they say, right? It's like not wearing the pads, you're gonna hit someone a specific way.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Especially a helmet, right? You're talking about, yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but once you have all the pads on, it's just like, alright, I'm just gonna dive into you full speed.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  That's also why I can't remember what you just said.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Do you ever lean on the seat?

• 22:50Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Tim.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  When she's asking you to do stuff, do you ever CT?

• 22:54Speaker 04

  That's the movie where he has to keep repeating himself.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  But do you ever do that with her? Like, do you pretend you have it so you don't have to do chores or?

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's smart. No.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Never?

• 23:04Speaker 04

  No, she's way too smart for that.

• 23:08Speaker 04

  This is like a full time excuse.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have that in the back pocket. I think my dad.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  I can't remember, sorry.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Cause my dad, he has, my dad, he has dementia, but like for a long time, I thought he was faking it to, no, don't, because I think he's happier.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Cause he just gets away with everything like he just like he'll just be inviting the boys over. My mom's like, what's going on? He's like, I can't remember anything.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  He's so happy. My mom says shit, forgets it immediately. Happy.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Oh, nice.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  The Lord works a mysterious way.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  You can't just say that when you want to.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  The glass is half full. I'm looking at this as a beautiful gift.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Optimism. Beautiful thing. From God.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Okay, so first year, I want to just talk really first year. When you're the backup the first year, like you seem like a team guy, right? I imagine like you want to root for the other players on the team, but you're also someone who believes in yourself and ambitious, competitive. How do you manage that? Like, what if, were there moments where you're like, yeah, I think I should start?

• 24:11Speaker 04

  It's a really good question and the answer is yes. And the answer is that it's very hard. And then I will also, and I still have to do this. I have to work on like, I would try to show up with the mindset of like, I'm competing with Chris, but also for him as a team.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  What do you mean? What do you mean for him?

• 24:32Speaker 04

  That I'm on his team and he's on the same team I'm on. Like when I get to go in the game, I'm trying to do good for him. So he gets to come back on the field, right? We're, we're competing for each other. Like in practice, you're competing against sometimes, but you, I, I think average competitors, and I mean this more than mindset, not talent. Average competitors want to beat someone when they're weaker. Elite competitors want to beat people at their best. And, and that I would challenge myself. No, I want him to do good. I just want to do better.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 25:06Speaker 04

  And I think also to answer your question, I would try to show with the mindset and the kind of the redoing of my mind every day to say like, no, I'm going to root for him. I'm going to praise him. I'm going to encourage him. I'm going to want the best for him. Am I going to want to do great? Yes, but I'm going to choose to root for him.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  It's a choice.

• 25:23Speaker 04

  It's a choice.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  That's the thing.

• 25:25Speaker 04

  It's not always emotion. Your emotions and our pride and my ego and all of that.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  It can get to you. And if we're not fighting against it, that is a daily moment by moment thing.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  That's interesting to me because in order to have the competitive drive to reach the levels you've reached, oftentimes the people that have it do not have that other compassionate part. Right? Where they go, I really want that person to win as well. That is something that you have to turn on constantly. Now, are you competitive at every single thing in your life?

• 25:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  So like ping pong?

• 25:59Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Relentless?

• 26:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't play it a lot, but I like, doesn't matter, whatever we play. I'd beat the shit out of you, Tim.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  Probably would. Probably would.

• 26:11Speaker 05

  He doesn't believe that either.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  We're gonna have the Poussey Twins talking shit to you. Saying something on the side of the table. All right, what is, where is that drive right now? And give me like a game, not in terms of what you're doing, in terms of affecting the world, the charities, all these things, like what is like the game that you can be relentlessly competitive? Is there anything?

• 26:33Speaker 04

  For him, it's paddle.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Golf, pickleball probably now.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Pickleball?

• 26:39Speaker 04

  Oh, you're not a pickleball fan?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  No, we need to get you over to paddle, bro. I play paddle, I play paddle.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  He's a paddle. Padell or whatever.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  You're mocking me?

• 26:49Speaker 04

  No, not at all. That's how you trash talk.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  This is trash talk. This is what I like.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  No, I would never. I would never. I'm sure it's a wonderful game and you're very good at it. No, no, no, bless your heart, no.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  I mean, it is like the rich man's pickleball, I guess.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  You're rich! You're the richest Filipino in history!

• 27:12Speaker 02

  He's gambling away! No, okay, no, pickleball is a fun, like, older people thing, but you're a young man still.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  Have you ever played singles in pickleball?

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've watched it.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I've hit a couple, you know, it's ping pong while you're standing on the table. It's adorable, but I feel like you, you could really be effective in paddle. I think I just want you to try it one time.

• 27:37Speaker 04

  I would love to try it. I'd love to play.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Thank you. That's why I want us to get.

• 27:40Speaker 04

  Totally open to that. Love to.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 04

  Next time in New York.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Aren't you allowed to hit off like the glass and stuff too?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  You can't hit off the glass. You know it.

• 27:48Speaker 04

  I don't really know all the rules, but I'd love to learn. It looks fun.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  It is very fun.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  And I think I've heard, it might be wrong in this, but I think I've heard that it's like the fastest growing sport in the world. Might be. The way this guy talks about it, I feel like he is. He's a ringer. He's been playing for three years. Tim's a ringer, dude. You can tell.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  It is.

• 28:04Speaker 04

  He's rope-a-doping you right now.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  It is. He is. This is what he's doing. He's buttering me up.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Let's put some money on it. Let's just put a little something.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Do you gamble a little bit?

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Pencil whipping. Yeah, yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Do you gamble a little bit?

• 28:14Speaker 04

  No, just, you know, we're just considered a different form of tithing, right?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Can we do prop tithes?

• 28:26Speaker 04

  So now we're under.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  So, but you know what? But you know what's always fair? Tell him you got 90% already. If there is a wager, then it's like, okay, you can give to the charity of my cause. If I lose, give to the charity of your cause.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  So I like this much better. I actually don't gamble on any sport that I play.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, me neither.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Cause I'm.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  I mean, of course I don't. But I wouldn't do that anyways. What about like while you were playing?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Did that happen at all?

• 28:56Speaker 04

  Isn't that a big story in the news now?

• 28:57Speaker 02

  No, no, ain't kidding. I mean, that would never happen in sports. Why would anybody do that? Why would any of these NBA players be like pulling themselves out of the game for no reason? This is, this is like a real issue.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  I honestly don't know much about it. I just heard from the news, like of obviously what happened.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  With the NBA and I really do think it's important that, that is not a part of any of the game. Cause if people lose trust, then you lose credibility. This is your least controversial stance. Loyalty of people.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  But it's so easy with these prop bets. Like back in the day, you had to throw a game. You know what I mean? Like now you could just get less than eight rebounds and then your buddies can make a bunch of money.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  So what do you think there's someone on the sideline or the, you know, court side that's like, hey, you got, they got a hand signal to him. You got seven rebounds.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're keeping track. I'm sure if it's rebounds, I keep track of that.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  I mean, it's proven.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  That's the accusation that the FBI is saying.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  You got, you got arrested for it. Like they found out, but also like the thing that the people gambling don't understand is the betting sites are so sophisticated. They can tell when a lot of money comes in on an obscure bet. So immediately they flag it and tell the NBA.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  Isn't it crazy though, with so much of these games, how close they are with the lines?

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 04

  It's crazy.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  Like, you can't, you can bet, you can guess who's gonna win, I think with fairly decent, but like the, the spread, I can, you're never gonna beat it.

• 30:25Speaker 04

  It's, it's crazy sometimes.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  I don't know how they do it. I don't, they know every piece of information. They know everything. It's crazy.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. Let's.

• 30:32Speaker 04

  What are we talking about?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  We were talking about, um, Aaron Hernandez. No, no.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  No, we'll get there. Oh, I have a quick question.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Sorry, just to finish that one point out. Okay. So you're competitive, you're able to root for your teammates and you're able to root for the guys that you're competing against, but it is an act of choice. It's not something that like maybe comes the most naturally to you because being competitive is probably what is instinctual.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  It's very instinctual and it's that drive. But then I also feel like the, when you, it gets easier when you're able to bond with teammates and you go through collective suffering.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  Right? Then there's such a deep level of respect and hardship that it becomes also easier.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  How do you get your teammates respect? Super Christian guy, you're not partying with anybody. I assume, I don't drink.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  But that doesn't mean that you don't go.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  This guy, this still doesn't respect me.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  You go, don't hang with them, that you don't spend time, that you don't have fellowship, that you don't have relationship, that you don't, um, I think sometimes it's just.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  That wasn't an obstacle at all.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  No, I, I don't wanna say it's not an obstacle. It's, I would try to spend time and hang with my teammates, but there's also like areas where they, you know, like you just.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  You go to the party, you just wanna partake in the stuff.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Some of it, yeah. And it's just, I don't know. I think I was just trying to figure it out. How do you, how do you do it? Right? No one trains you for it. You just try to.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Now, what was that like? You walk into a party as you. And Florida, what was that? I know your wife is here, but it was, was it crazy? Were girls losing their minds? Girls were losing their minds.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  People would cry when they saw him on campus, dude. This is also what I want to ask you. When did, when does it go from people are, the dehumanizing is also on the positive end. Tebow mania, when do you feel that thing hit?

• 32:16Speaker 02

  We just gonna jump off the parties real quick?

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Go to the party, guys.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Do you just remove yourself when it, because it was almost, you're like a boy band at the time, right? It was that type of sensation, right? Do you go, I just gotta get out of here, like?

• 32:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, sometimes, but then you're like, I can't let this not let me um spend time and have fellowship with my teammates.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  It's like, I don't know, I'd say I just did it imperfectly and trying to figure it out, like.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  What did the pouncy twins say?

• 32:46Speaker 04

  They're always supportive.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  No, but when you, when you were like, when you're like, listen, I'm waiting, I'm waiting until marriage, like I'm 100% waiting, what was, what were there?

• 32:53Speaker 04

  They're awesome.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  But was there?

• 32:55Speaker 04

  They're the, they're the legit.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  There was no jokes, there is nothing, there is no fun, just amongst brothers?

• 33:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, honestly, not really. People, it's only when the media brought more of that stuff up.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  It's, it wasn't really a, like.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  We got two guys here that waited for marriage, by the way.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  They were so supportive.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  One and two.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  Well, waited for our wives.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, waited for our wives.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  That's waited for marriage, right?

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  My wife and I had sex before we got married, but those weren't the only people.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  You're a phony.

• 33:26Speaker 05

  The temptation of lust, bro, the carnal pleasure just got to me.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Oh, you guys are so fake.

• 33:30Speaker 05

  I tried.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  I was 31, dude. Everyone could kiss my ass.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, dude.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Everyone could kiss my ass.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  I'm sorry for trying to bring you there. I, I want him to feel comfortable. Bunch of heathens on this couch.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  No, come on. He calls me a virgin every day and now I'm all of a sudden a heathen.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness, bro. Anyway, sorry, I apologize. Back to you, a real man who believes, like my friends.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Can I, can I pick apart something he said?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  He said 100% not partaking.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  I know a lot of Christian people growing up in the South who were like, "I'm not having sex until I get married." That meant one specific thing.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  Yep. And I think-

• 34:07Speaker 03

  Talk to me!

• 34:08Speaker 04

  I think for me, too many times I made it about rules, do's and don'ts, like what you're talking about, when really, I think, one of the most important things is honor. Is that I would honor my future wife. And I think there are so many times I didn't do that in so many areas. And my actions, my words, my thoughts, and it fell short in so many areas. And most of the time it's because you're like, "Okay, what's the boundary? What's the area? What's that line?" Rather than what's right? What's right for my future wife? And I think that's,

• 34:52Speaker 04

  too many times had the wrong idea and the wrong goal. When it's not about the do's and don'ts, it's about choosing to honor her.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  That is beautiful. And you took all the fun out of all of it.

• 35:06Speaker 07

  He's a good guy, man. Forgive him. Forgive him for what he did last night.

• 35:12Mark Gagnon?

  Did you ever go to parties with the basketball team? And like, you guys both win national championships, and then you guys are chopping it up together. Now these guys are in the NBA.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. We would be, I mean, Al and Jo Kim and Corey and Lee and all those guys, we'd have some classes together. And just, it was awesome, though. Just the support from one another. They win the championship. Billy Donovan comes to talk to our team and the, you know, and they win back to back. And we went two out of three. And it was just, and honestly, our swimming team, our gymnastics team, our baseball team, it was just dumb. Like, it was so many of the teams, it was like, "Oh, no, this is what we do."

• 35:55Speaker 04

  Oh, let's be honest. It's the number one public school in the country, too. Sorry about it.

• 35:59Speaker 07

  Oh, really?

• 36:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. I believe so right now.

• 36:01Mark Gagnon?

  UF is a good school.

• 36:02Speaker 07

  Really?

• 36:03Speaker 03

  I'm shocked by this.

• 36:04Mark Gagnon?

  Harvard is a good school.

• 36:05Speaker 04

  No, it's good.

• 36:06Speaker 07

  The Harvard is a sad-

• 36:07Mark Gagnon?

  Wow, that's funny. I'm still trying to understand what was going on, like, because I'm a New Yorker. We didn't really care about college football. But I even heard of your name during that time. So like, what was going on that, like, it was national news everywhere?

• 36:23Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's a good question. What do you think it was that was so compelling?

• 36:27Speaker 04

  It's a good question. You know, I think that we're blessed with a lot of success. And I think success puts a lot of eyeballs. And I think that doubling down on the basketball team and all of that, I think that led to more and more. And then, I don't, I don't know. Just, it's a good question, you know?

• 36:57Speaker 03

  No disrespect to your teammates. You were the, by far the head of that attention.

• 37:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, we had a lot of great guys.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  No, you had a lot of, you were a great team. What do you think was about you that drew so many eyeballs?

• 37:12Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't know. But you know what's interesting? There's a lot of times that I didn't want them.

• 37:19Speaker 05

  Did you like the attention?

• 37:23Speaker 04

  For things and at times, but there was also times when I was like, man, I just want to go play. And times I think it made it a lot harder. I think Denver and New York and other places that made it a lot harder, some of it.

• 37:39Speaker 05

  What was the first game you put the eye black, John 316?

• 37:44Speaker 04

  I believe it was my junior year. I believe it was Tennessee. And, you know, I'm homeschooled, lefty, dyslexic. So, man, it is not legible at all.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  Austin 340.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  I think that's what it is. So, I had to have one of our trainers write it on. And I was sorry, that wasn't John 316. That was Philippians 413. And I wore that. And we were blessed to beat Tennessee that day, given us Tennessee. But we would, I was wearing it under my eyes every single week. And, you know, as you were talking about, the fans are so passionate. After four or five weeks, they start literally selling it like on the side of the stadium and stuff of, and you have thousands of people that started wearing Philippians 413.

• 38:28Speaker 03

  How does that make you feel?

• 38:31Speaker 04

  I mean, encouraged. I don't believe that necessarily everybody knew what it meant. I had one classmate, his name was Phil, and he goes, hey, did you put that under your eyes for me?

• 38:42Mark Gagnon?

  What? What are you talking about? Yes, fail that, yes. Actually.

• 38:47Speaker 07

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  He's got a point.

• 40:37Mark Gagnon?

  No, you can't say UTC. It would just be six Eastern.

• 40:40Speaker 07

  Yeah. Oh, perfect. So that's easy. Wait, wait, wait. Why would it be? Explain that to me. It's six and eighteen. It's a twelve hour difference, you're saying. What? Eighteen o'clock is six o'clock. Yeah. Six PM, but that doesn't specify six or it doesn't have AM or PM. So eighteen. AM and PM got nothing to do with Eastern Standard.

• 41:01Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, I thought he was saying fucking that's military time, but then I don't know about the UTC.

• 41:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's what we're all saying, bro. Where is UTC?

• 41:10Mark Gagnon?

  Come on, you got me. Bob's got.

• 41:12Speaker 07

  Jamil clocked Alex Fano what the fuck he was saying thirty seconds ago. He's been rubbing his forehead.

• 41:18Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, but the UTC, where's that?

• 41:20Speaker 07

  It's for a coordinated universal.

• 41:22Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly.

• 41:23Speaker 07

  Coordinated universal time. I don't know where that is.

• 41:26Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly. It's not six.

• 41:28Speaker 07

  No, it is six. A hundred percent it's six. Yeah, six UTC. It's six UTC.

• 41:35Mark Gagnon?

  Alright. Motherfuckers gonna start late.

• 41:37Speaker 07

  Anyway.

• 41:39Mark Gagnon?

  Or early.

• 41:40Speaker 07

  Leave it to Al to make everyone late, bro. It ends December third, okay? At what time? This time is crazy. This time is crazy right here. Twenty-three hours, fifty-nine minutes and fifty-nine seconds UTC. So that's seventeen. That right there.

• 41:59Mark Gagnon?

  That's six seven.

• 41:59Speaker 07

  That's the pay. Opt-in required. Vida Kraken app. One entry per dollar trade on Kraken. One million entry cap per user. No purchase necessary. Geographic restrictions apply. Terms apply. Big website.

• 42:17Speaker 07

  I don't know if I can read that whole thing. That's a lot to read. You should probably put that somewhere, man. You should definitely do that. Bitcoin, man. So Bitcoin's humming. It's humming, bro. I like that. This should be evidenced by the fact we don't know time, but this isn't legal advice. Yeah, yeah, also, yeah. Or time advice.

• 42:33Mark Gagnon?

  None of that.

• 42:34Speaker 07

  I would really look up that time yourself and just kind of see where you are in the world and how it impacts you. Yeah, see what it means. Because to me that was six o'clock. Yeah. In the night.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  But you might miss out on your free Bitcoin.

• 42:47Speaker 07

  You might miss it.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  You might not get a hundred thou.

• 42:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, you might be 12 hours early on it. You might heard 6 and it's 6 a.m. You might be in a completely different time zone.

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Facts.

• 42:57Speaker 07

  Time zones are crazy.

• 42:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, that shit is magic.

• 43:00Speaker 07

  U T I, what, what is it?

• 43:03Speaker 07

  What is it?

• 43:04Mark Gagnon?

  U T C.

• 43:04Speaker 07

  U T C.

• 43:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it obviously stands for Coordinated Universal Time. That's what U T C obviously translates to.

• 43:10Speaker 07

  Oh, it's Spanish.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  Is that what it is?

• 43:12Speaker 07

  Would they do it backwards?

• 43:14Speaker 05

  But it's still not backwards, it should be C U T. Anyway.

• 43:20Speaker 05

  I don't understand what it all means.

• 43:21Mark Gagnon?

  Nah. He's, he fucked up somewhere.

• 43:24Speaker 07

  He did fuck up somewhere.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  I see what he said.

• 43:27Speaker 07

  Like AIDS in Spanish is, is the opposite.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  Is it Sdia?

• 43:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's like, uh, disease, gay, in your butt, or something like that. But it's the opposite. You know, what is autoimmune deficiency syndrome? Is that it?

• 43:45Mark Gagnon?

  You get it in your mouth.

• 43:47Speaker 05

  Oh, damn, it is backwards.

• 43:49Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, no, that's Australia, my bad.

• 43:53Speaker 07

  That just made me feel uncomfortable.

• 43:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, made me feel weird.

• 43:57Speaker 07

  Also, you know for a fact that saliva breaks down AIDS.

• 44:03Speaker 05

  We used to tell each other that back in the day.

• 44:07Speaker 07

  We would tell that to each other back in the day, first get it after.

• 44:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:12Speaker 07

  Alright, so, so, so Bitcoin humming.

• 44:14Speaker 05

  Bitcoin's humming, dude.

• 44:15Speaker 07

  What's Bitcoin at at the end of the year?

• 44:18Speaker 05

  I mean, right now, is that what, 100, 500, 6?

• 44:21Speaker 07

  Somebody look up, what is, what is, what is Calci have Bitcoin at, at the end of the year?

• 44:28Speaker 05

  I mean, people are saying it's gonna hit 150.

• 44:31Speaker 07

  So, let me look at this right here. By the end of the year, there is an 8% chance on Calci that Bitcoin hits 150 grand with two down arrow.

• 44:44Speaker 07

  With two down arrow.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  U T C.

• 44:46Speaker 07

  That's very important to understand, a two down arrow red.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was a 10%, now it's at 8.

• 44:51Speaker 07

  Yeah, okay, alright. Shit, 150 by the end of the year.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  People are saying by June is at 35%, 150. That's pretty good.

• 45:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 05

  I mean, that's kind of a nice little arbitrage, right? Cause you could get a Bitcoin and then on top of that, go to Calci and be like, double up. Man, kinda nice, right?

• 45:08Speaker 07

  But what if it doesn't? Then you double down. You also double down. That's a big double down. Yeah, it is a double down. Or you could hedge and get one and get one and the other. So you get one and the other. And then you make zero dollars. And then you're right back where you were. Exactly. Fucking central time. Bet it all there. That's central time. Yeah, exactly. That is 100% UTC. That's 100% central time. Yeah, bro, money magic, that's what it is. Yeah, alright, well, listen, let's get up, let's get up. You got some Bitcoin, we all got a little Bitcoin. Yeah, a little something.

• 45:35Mark Gagnon?

  I'm up, I'm $100. Not trying to brag, but your boy's flush.

• 45:42Speaker 07

  Wow!

• 45:43Mark Gagnon?

  There we go, dude.

• 45:44Speaker 07

  Come on now, man. What about you, Al? I'm up 50. You're up 50? Yeah.

• 45:47Mark Gagnon?

  That's pretty, that's pretty good.

• 45:49Speaker 07

  That's why you dress as an undercover cop in the subway platform?

• 45:54Speaker 07

  He needs armin, he needs armin. So if you had a sweatband on your wrist? I would never jump a turnstile. Never in my life, bro. 100% way by the turnstile. I'm booping. Why you acting like you haven't seen you a thousand times? Get out of here. If you had the North Face boots on? If you had the North Face, if you had the Gore-Tex Nike boots? Now you're getting closer. You're 100% a police officer. Now you're getting closer. All black? That's what they, all black? No. With an emerald necklace? They have the Yankee jersey on, and they always have a bad. You had the Yankee hat, it's close enough. Yeah, but it's a bad fitted.

• 46:26Mark Gagnon?

  It's a bad fitted?

• 46:27Speaker 07

  They would wear a bad fitted, this is.

• 46:28Mark Gagnon?

  Come on.

• 46:29Speaker 07

  Come on, come on, come on.

• 46:30Mark Gagnon?

  Nah.

• 46:30Speaker 07

  I'm fly with it. What is that fitted with the, with the flower in it? Uh, it's just a little rose going through it, just something special.

• 46:36Mark Gagnon?

  Something special?

• 46:37Speaker 07

  Something special, you didn't know.

• 46:38Mark Gagnon?

  Something special.

• 46:39Speaker 07

  You didn't know it was actually special? Hold on, hold on. Just so I can understand. When I asked, what is it? And then described it, and then you described it back to me. You said a flower, I had to tell you what type. Oh, okay, got it, got it, got it. But I meant like what brand was behind it? Oh, I don't know, nigga, the fuck? Damn.

• 46:56Mark Gagnon?

  Bro, remember when you called his necklace an emerald tablet stone?

• 47:04Speaker 05

  Billy Carson almost chain snatched you.

• 47:06Speaker 07

  I thought he was coming in to get avreese.

• 47:10Speaker 05

  Fucking roasted. I'm sorry, he's right there.

• 47:15Speaker 07

  Anyway, man, let's get back to the show.

• 47:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 47:18Speaker 07

  I think we were already back to the show, but let's bring Akos back. Let's bring Tim Tebow as well. Let's bring the other people that are here on this show.

• 47:26Speaker 04

  We were playing SEC Championship, number one versus two, us versus Alabama. And man, for, for games, I just, I really try to be like so tunnel vision focused that I don't look around, I don't want to see people, I just want to go look at the smallest common denominator, something that I've done over and over and over again, I just want to do it, do it a little bit better. So I don't like look around, take in the environment, because I think that's a lot of times when pressure gets to you, right? You think about the what if, what if we win? But as we're getting ready to run out of the tunnel, there are these fans that are hanging over the edge of the, like, the tunnel. And, and so they're like, kind of, their hands are wiping by me and I just peek up like

• 48:07Speaker 04

  this and I see, I look up and I see this whole line and so many of them are wearing Philippians 413 under their eye. And it just, I don't know, something different hits me in my heart where I, we run out of the tunnel and usually for me, it's I run right to the 30 yard line, I do three jumps, I do three sprints from the 30 to the goal line, I do three passes, I go get three snaps, I go over the first 15 plays, I do it again and again and again. Just try to block out everything else and focus on the task at hand and focus on the obstacle, which is that defense we're facing, period. Like you not think, don't let your mind drift. But my mind started to drift because I see this and it just starts impacting my heart. And, and you think, man, if we win, we'll be playing in the national championship.

• 48:48Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  For some reason, it came to my head, like, you need to change the verse. And so then we won in the next six weeks, leading up to the national championship. I kept really contemplating and agonizing over it. But I really felt that I was just supposed to go with John 3 16 because as a Christian, it's a verse that sums up Christianity in such a clear way. For God so loved the world, he gave his one and only son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. And so I decided to go to that verse. And two nights before the game, I went up to my parents' hotel room in Miami, Florida. And I said, hey, Mom, Dad, I'm going to change the verse. And my mom, she's so supportive. And my dad's like, have you told Coach Meyer?

• 49:30Speaker 04

  Because he says he just likes his routines, but that dude is so superstitious, he's crazy. So he's like, you need to tell him. So the next day, we have our walk through and I finished. We finished our little walk through and I said, hey, Coach, can I talk to you for a second? He's like, yeah, what's going on? I said, hey, you know the verse I wear in a Bible? He's like, yeah, Philippians 4 13. I can do all things for Christ's sake with me. I love it. And it was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah. Well, I'm going to plan to change that verse tomorrow night. He's like, what are you talking about? You can't change the verse. That verse got us here.

• 50:03Speaker 04

  And I explained to him why I felt compelled to change the verse. And honestly, I didn't really think about it a lot after that. There's the next night, I put it under my eyes and we were blessed to win the national championship. And two days after that game, I was in Ballyhoo Restaurant, Gainesville, Florida, my mom and my dad and Coach Meyer. And we're sitting down having dinner and Coach Meyer gets a call and he's always so intense. He's like, hello? Uh huh. What is it? Tell me again. What do you mean? Seriously. Okay, bye. And I'm like, Coach, what was that? What happened? He said, that's Steve McClain, our PR guy. And I said, well, what did he say? He said, he just got all the statistics in and he just told me that during the game, 94 million people Googled John 3 16. Crazy.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  And I was sitting there and I was like, my first thought was, how the heck do 94 million people not know John 3 16? It's like, one of the biggest verses that is like, hey, welcome to Sunday School, John 3 16. And, but I remember just sitting there and being so overwhelmed at what a big God we serve. And he can take the small little loaves and fishes when we feel like it's just a little and he can multiply and do whatever he wants with it. But then I think a mistake I make a lot is God does something, but you kind of put him in a box, right? You're like, oh, that's cool, but it's done almost. And my favorite part of the story is exactly three years later,

• 51:30Speaker 04

  when I was playing for the Broncos and we're playing the Steelers in the playoffs. We play this game and it's overtime crazy game. And I still think it's the fastest overtime in NFL history and we win. And after the game, I changed and I'm going to do the press conference. And you know, I always love talking to the media. It's my favorite thing. And I'm getting ready to go do this press conference and Patrick, our PR guy, steps in front of me, he's like, Timmy, do you realize what happened? And I'm like, yeah, we beat the Steelers. We're going to play the Patriots. That didn't go well, by the way. And I said, yeah, and you know, we're going to play the Patriots. And he said, no, that's not what happened. I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's what happened, dude. And he's like, no, you don't know what happened. I'm like, Patrick, what happened? And he said, Timmy, it's exactly three years from the night

• 52:14Speaker 04

  that you wore John 3 16 under your eyes. Exactly three years to the night. And I said, oh, man, that's really cool. That's so awesome. He said, no, you don't get it. And I said, all right, Patrick, what don't I get? He said, also during the game, you threw for 316 yards. Your yards per completion were 31.6. Your yards per rush were 3.16. The time of possession was 31.6. And the ratings for the night were 31.6. And during the game, over 90 million people Googled John 3 16. It's the number one trending thing on all social media.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  You want to go to heaven or not, man?

• 52:53Speaker 04

  What else do you need?

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Where do you want to go?

• 52:54Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  God is being obvious with that one. That's where there's like no doubt right there. 31.6 million people watching?

• 53:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Whoa. So some good ratings.

• 53:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Those are some good ratings. It's a great game. Yeah, those are good ratings.

• 53:16Speaker 04

  I remember standing there and

• 53:20Speaker 02

  He wasn't doing that for the Philippines one, huh? No, the Patriots had that one the next game.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  They won 41 to 3, actually.

• 53:30Speaker 04

  Thanks for rubbing that in. But I, I remember standing there and I didn't celebrate.

• 53:40Speaker 04

  Because I actually felt a lot of shame and guilt.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Why?

• 53:44Speaker 04

  Because I knew my heart and my intentions that night. And they were to prove the doubters wrong. They were to show that I could do it. And they were some good ones to support my teammates. But I was just so convicted, like almost like God was pricking my heart, saying, you thought tonight was about a game.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 04

  And that's what you wanted it to be about. It's never just about a game. I didn't send my son for a game. And I was just, I was really convicted and ashamed.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  You feel shame because your desires were selfish? Is that?

• 54:23Speaker 04

  I felt ashamed because I felt like on the throne of my heart at that moment, it was about me.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  And I walk in to go do the press conference and they're asking me some basic questions. But you can see all these reporters, they like, they know all this. But you know, they don't really feel comfortable asking all this. So they're like kind of leaning to the side like, Timmy, what about all of these numbers? You know, three years from now, you know, they're trying to figure out how to even ask you the question.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Reporters have the data. They're not convinced by it, but they're also like, this is a pretty peculiar question.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so they're like, uh, so something to the extent of, you know, so Timmy, all of this and 316 and all of these three years from now, pretty big coincidence, huh? And I remember saying something to the extent to the guys that were beside me, you know, it's media all around, so the guys that were beside me, well, you could believe that it's a really big coincidence. Or you can believe that we serve a really big God. And I think that's something that we all have to figure out. Are we all here because of some massive coincidence? And that's we're all here? Or are we here because there is a God that actually loves enough us to create us in his image on purpose, for a purpose? And are we really going to believe?

• 55:45Speaker 04

  Because if you just believe it's a big accident, then what purpose do you really have?

• 55:51Speaker 02

  What God believes in Michael Jordan?

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Is it the same one, you think?

• 56:00Speaker 05

  It's God that believes in Michael Jordan.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  That guy.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  The framing of the question really matters.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  God believes in Michael Jordan?

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, God's gotta believe in you too, right?

• 56:09Speaker 03

  He believes in you.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Doesn't it go, does it not?

• 56:12Speaker 04

  I see where it's coming from, but it's not.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Does it not go both ways? He can't breathe life into you, but he's not gonna believe in that life that he breathes?

• 56:21Speaker 04

  Framing of questions matters a lot.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Okay, what's a better framing of it?

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Well, can I point out one thing that was a really valuable lesson? And you changed your behavior moving forward? Y'all got your asses beat the next week.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Yes, we did.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Because you weren't selfish enough.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  That's, you know.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? God gave you that selfishness just for that day to make that miracle happen.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Reframe that.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then he's like, I need this.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  I think too often, people want to make it about a game. I don't think anything about that was about a game.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  I think you underestimate how much God loves footballs on Sundays. It could've been on any day.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  That game would've been like.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  He enjoys it. He likes watching you go out there and cook. He's into it, I'm telling you. I think, yeah, I think, I think there's a lot going on.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  Did y'all ever see some of the SNL skits they made about that?

• 57:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 57:11Speaker 04

  They were so stupid and funny, but it was like, you know, all just joking about me praying before him. But then, like, you know, Brady and Belichick and all the memes after they beat us from the next one. Some of them were pretty clever.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. What was it saying about Brady and Belichick?

• 57:28Speaker 04

  I can't remember. They were way too long ago, but they were funny, though.

• 57:32Speaker 05

  Probably that Tom Brady was Catholic, I'm just saying. Maybe helped a little, you know?

• 57:36Speaker 02

  That is a good point. He makes a good point.

• 57:40Speaker 05

  His dad was gonna become a priest.

• 57:41Speaker 02

  His dad was gonna become a priest.

• 57:42Speaker 05

  And then he didn't. And then had Tom Brady.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  And he had Tom Brady. He gave his one and only son to the game of football. He did too. He did too, man. He did give his one and only son to the game of football.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  I think that's a pretty sacrilegious statement.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I think God loves us equally, obviously. I think he loves you more than Tom Brady. But that's just me personally. That's just me personally. That's just me personally. And I roasted Tom.

• 58:06Speaker 04

  Of course you don't believe that.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  I don't believe it.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  I'm just saying.

• 58:13Speaker 05

  I'm always curious, because like, I went to a Christian school. And like, we would pray before games and sometimes I hear-

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Christian, you went to your kitchen table.

• 58:19Speaker 05

  No, until fifth grade, until fifth grade.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  That is a Christian school.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's my dear, bro.

• 58:24Speaker 05

  Don't act like you- Until the fifth grade, bro.

• 58:27Speaker 04

  You're just-

• 58:27Speaker 05

  I went to a Christian school.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  You went to homeschool, what are you talking about?

• 58:31Speaker 05

  Until the fifth grade, bro, until the fifth grade.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  I mean, in fairness, like, we didn't even have anyone to cheat off of.

• 58:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the point. That's true. That's true.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  Eliminates certain temptations.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  You were dyslexic, you couldn't even read there, that's what I'm saying.

• 58:46Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 58:47Speaker 05

  You and she get it wrong.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have the whole test.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Were you really dyslexic?

• 58:51Speaker 04

  I am dyslexic.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  To this day?

• 58:53Speaker 04

  What, it's something that all of a sudden, you're like, you have puberty and it changes?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  No, Tylenol.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Like asthma.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  Tylenol.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  You got the Tylenol, it cures all that. It reverses it, yeah, extra strength.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  I didn't know that.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  So, to this day, to this day, it's still difficult for you.

• 59:08Speaker 04

  There's an award for it. Dreaming also matters. Am I dyslexic? Yes.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  But you didn't, there wasn't like a hit you took in the league where you're like, alright, I shook that off.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Or like, it just, it switched it?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, now I see the numbers, yeah.

• 59:20Speaker 04

  No, I actually really believe that dyslexia, like, one of my nieces has it and she calls it her superpower.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Wait a minute, why is that?

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Because, there's a book, if you're interested, you're probably not, it's called The Dyslexic Advantage.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Pouncy twins over here.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  It's called The Dyslexic Advantage, and it actually talks about how it's not a disability, it's just a difference. So, certain, most people think inside of a box. Dyslexic people, we think way outside of a box. And you just think very differently. It's also a reason why there's a higher percentage of entrepreneurs that have dyslexia than the normal population. Because they've had to adjust and think outside the box, and they naturally do that, so they're naturally- And there's like, I think, four main ways that dyslexic people think outside of a box. Like, there's, you know, different forms of creativity and narrative and different ways that they process. But like, for me, I do not see things inside of a box. Which sometimes I think it hurts for normal things, like, in a classroom, studying essays.

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  But then it also really helps for a lot of other things, like, you know, certain forms of creativity or a different way to get the job done, you know, or a different process to do it. So, I think there's pros and cons with it, just like anything.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Was there a struggle for you? With like reading playbooks?

• 1:00:39Speaker 04

  No, especially once I figured out how my brain learned. So I'm a kinesthetic learner. I'm not an auditory learner. So if I, if a coach just stands up there and just tells you all this stuff, it's not going to work the same as if I can visually see it and then walk through it.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  And so you learn how you learn. And that really changed a lot for me. And I could then memorize so much more and so much faster.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  Do you create the worlds or do you create the spaces for your memories? Some people who have like kinesthesia, I think is what you're talking.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  Kinesthetic?

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's like.

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  Kinesthesia?

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  I think that there, no, is that not it? It's like a specific type of memory in which you like create these spaces and you attach.

• 1:01:20Speaker 04

  Like visually?

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:21Speaker 05

  Like a memory palace.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Exactly. You attach the memories to these spaces that you can imagine. So you're like walking in a door and then this thing happened.

• 1:01:29Speaker 04

  So I don't know if I think of it exactly, but like when I was getting back to the playbooks, when I would do that, I would like be, you know, I mean, your dorm or apartment or something. And then I would like close my eyes and I would visualize walking through it in the defense we would play and where they would line up. And when I started doing that was also very helpful.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Hmm. And what about scripture? Difficulty reading?

• 1:01:50Speaker 05

  With dyslexia, does it make it harder to?

• 1:01:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, it makes it harder to just read and read fast. But now there's so many apps you can get on U version Bible app or do whatever. It'll read to you and so.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  That's also something I think it's good not to just speed read through though.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, take your time. Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 05

  One of the things I was curious about those, like before games, I would have like coaches that would pray and then some of the kids I feel like they would be praying, but they would be like praying to win.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 05

  And I remember as a kid being like, the other team's also praying to win. Like, I feel like this, like the Christian sort of like prayerdom within like competitive games, like sometimes I would be like, I don't know if God cares about like this game in this exact moment and who wins. So I'm curious, like, what was that dialogue? And not to delve into like your personal relationship, but like.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Wait for injury?

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  I think it's a really good question and it's important. And I think there'd be a couple of takes on it from, from my opinion. And I don't know if they're, they're right at all. It'd just be my opinion. I, I wouldn't discourage it because I really believe that God doesn't want us to have.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Rehearse prayers. Now, there can be really good prayers, but I really feel like God wants our heart. And I do think it's okay to, to say to God, God, I really want to win this game. I really want to do this. I really want, but then I think it's even more important to say, but if it doesn't happen, I still want to trust you more. Right? And I, I don't want to put my faith in this game, or this thing, or this corner office, or this job, or this podcast, or whatever. I want to put it in you. And so I don't discourage people from sharing their heart. I actually believe that we look at scripture and you look at the life of David,

• 1:03:37Speaker 04

  and man, he just poured his heart over and over and over to God in praise, in, in fear, and doubt, and unknown, in so many ways. But then you look at how you'd sum it up to, as they know, go back to, but I'm still going to trust you. And I think that's something that's really important. And, and for me, you know, so much was made about like T-Boing and prayer. And it was really weird and hard for me, too. Why is that?

• 1:04:09Speaker 04

  When it's weird that something that's really important is also just a meme. Some people do it to support you, and some people do it because it's about prayer.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  You had one of the first social media memes ever with T-Boing.

• 1:04:22Speaker 04

  I mean, and I, I still have so many people to this day, all over the world, in all countries, that would be like, hey, I want to show you this picture of my kid's T-Boing. And I'm like, you know, it's just, I'm like, yay. I don't know, you know.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  You thought it was reductive?

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  No, I don't know. It's, I, I, I don't even know how to process it. Part of me says, man, I'm grateful prayers being talked about. Like, I think that's a good thing. It's awesome.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  You know, but then, man, you just don't want it to be about me.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting. So you battle, you battle with this idea that. People are, deifying might be the wrong word, but they're like placing you on a pedestal when the whole point of you doing it is to put Jesus on the pedestal.

• 1:05:08Speaker 04

  Well, yes, it is. Couple of thoughts to that. One, it wasn't something that I started in college or the NFL. I've done it, I think, every game since my sophomore year of high school.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a dance move that you're putting on for attention.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  But it was also something that I needed to do. Because I needed, because I know that what my pride and proclivities can lead me to. And so I would try to find that quiet space, starting my sophomore year in high school, and just give it to the Lord, win or lose. God, let me trust you. Let me love you more than this game.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Can I ask what that means, what your pride and proclivities would lead you to?

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, just that I wouldn't make it, that when I was mentioning before, what's on the top? What's on the throne? Like, because if you ask me, I could give you the right answer.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:05:57Speaker 04

  But if you cut me open and you could really see what's on the throne of your heart?

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  Is it what you say?

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Oh dude, that's great.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  Too many days, it just wasn't.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  So, so this idea-

• 1:06:08Speaker 04

  And that's just trying to be very honest with you.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  So you go, you score a touchdown, and like, the knee jerk primal instinctual reaction might be to like, have this crazy celebration. There might be like arrogance and pride. And so to remind yourself not to do that, to fall victim to whatever those instincts are, you're doing this T-Bone thing, and then it's memified.

• 1:06:29Speaker 04

  Well, I think that's also where the media picks it up and it gets back to here, where people think I did it as a touchdown celebration. I don't think I ever did it one time as a touchdown celebration.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  No, again-

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  I only did it pre-game and post-game.

• 1:06:41Speaker 02

  I'm not even, I'm not even saying like-

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  I thought it was during- Because that's what gets reported.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  I thought it was during like game winning kicks or whatever, you'd be on the knee, and then people are like-

• 1:06:50Speaker 04

  Oh, I would do that too.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. But half the time, you're just taking a knee because you're tired.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wait, that's interesting. So it never happened after like a touchdown celebration?

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  Maybe after the game ended, you know, at the end of a game, and we end to end the game as a touchdown, maybe, but it wasn't like a celebration.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Speaker 04

  I never see it. It's not a celeb-

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  I understand what you're saying. And I think you communicated well. All right, guys. I would love to get your perspective. We kind of touched on it a little bit earlier, but like- Right now with the internet, there are essentially a thousand different realities. Right? Like, we talked about this earlier, like, there's a thousand different versions of you. There's a thousand different versions of me. Whenever I meet somebody, I don't know which version of me they think I am. You know, like, do they think that I'm this guy who, like, struggled to get, you know, get pregnant with my wife and then, you know, wrote a comedy thing about it? Do they think that I'm some guy who did some lunatic thing on a podcast? Like, who do I know? You've been going on with this from before the internet has turned into this behemoth. What do...

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  How have you dealt with the world where there's a thousand different versions of you?

• 1:07:58Speaker 04

  Hmm, that's a good question.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Did you feel the need to, like, correct them? Do you ignore it?

• 1:08:05Speaker 04

  Good question. I want to ask you, how do you want people to actually see you? But I can answer the question first if you want me to.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  I can answer that. Uh, I think after having a kid, I cared a lot less about how the world sees me. I think before that, I really kind of defined myself by, like, my work. And that was like my identity and like, as long as these things were going well, then I... And the way that people pursue...

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  I also put my identity and stuff far too often.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:37Speaker 04

  I have to battle it. I would say that probably one of the areas that I want to always correct is when people put me on a pedestal. One of the first things that I say is that I don't ever deserve to be on that pedestal. I always want to try to take myself off and put Jesus on the pedestal. Because if people watch or look at me long enough, I will let them down.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  And is it a fear of letting them down?

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  Well, fear is part, but it's also, that's, uh, uh, I am, you know, sometimes because of the media and the hype of certain things and whatever, it's just like, well, you're this or this or this, and you're praying and you're this. And it's like, no, it's, no, man, I'm a screw-up that is just, that I, I'm...

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  It's so interesting.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  It's so funny you say that. Like, I, you know, if you look at, so I'll give you an example. When I'm... For my freshman year at the University of Florida, we for home games, we'd get on the bus and we'd drive to the stadium. Our stadium is called The Swamp and we'd get out about a hundred-ish yards away and we would walk down something called the Gator Walk and for a average game, ten, fifteen thousand, bigger game, twenty, twenty-five thousand, like it gets you ready to go. Yeah, like, and first couple of times, it was awesome. But then, man, when I started walking down it after first few weeks and stuff's going good and we're winning and I'm playing and there'd be people that would be wearing my jersey

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  and I'd have these thoughts and these voices in my head of, oh, you're somebody now. I'd have these voices of like pride and arrogance. And then I'd keep walking and there'd be a mom or dad with their son or their daughter and they would say, I just want you to know, you're our son's role model, you're our daughter's role model. And I wouldn't have confidence in it. I'd actually have shame. And I would just want to say, no, sir, no, ma'am, not if you knew me on my worst day, I wouldn't be their role model. Not if you knew my worst thoughts, my worst actions, my worst deeds, I wouldn't be their role model. And then you you keep going and there'd be always opposing fans that would be saying stuff and I would run and retaliate and I would be angry. Now it'd be its own voices and it there would

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  always be near the end, even though there's not supposed to be media, right? There's somehow always media and you always see it. They're walking right in front of you. The camera's literally right in front of your face and they're asking some, you know, grandiose question, you know? And it would start to hit me, this fear of you're not enough. And I thought, man, I can't do this every week. Because I think all of those things are true.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  You're not enough for their perception of you or you're not enough?

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Just to handle all of it. This is the fear of you're not enough.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:27Speaker 04

  And so then I started, I thought, man, I can't listen to all these voices. And so I started putting, it was back in the day, you had that old iPod thing, you know, you have the circle thing with the headphones and I'd hug on my teammates and I'd be the last one to walk through and I'd put my headphones on and I would listen to a song by Casting Crowns. You've heard of Casting Crowns? Yeah. And

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  They, they had a song called "The Voice of Truth", and I try to remember lyrics, but it would say, "The voice of truth tells me a different story. The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid.' The voice of truth says, 'This is for my glory.' Out of all the voices calling out to me, I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth." And for me, the voice of truth is God, God's Word, and God's promises that, yes, I am a sinner, but I'm saved by grace. I'm no longer defined by my scars. I'm defined by His. And I'm more than a conqueror through Him who loved me. And yes, I've fallen short, but Jesus didn't fall short on my behalf. And so I get to hold on to His promises, because although those things are true, that I have thoughts of arrogance,

• 1:12:34Speaker 04

  and, and, and all of these, these areas I fall short, that's no longer my identity is in those things. That's no longer how I'm defined. That is not how God sees me. And so I get to hold on to those promises and remember the voice of truth. And then I get to meditate on the voice of truth. And, and so that's a long way of answering your question, but of trying to go back to God's Word and His love for us, and remember the greatest love story rescue mission of all time is the life of Jesus, and what He did for us on our behalf, and to remember that and be focused and filled with that. And yes, that makes me want to take myself off of any pedestal and put Him on it,

• 1:13:17Speaker 04

  because He's the only one that deserves it.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  What's, what's interesting, you say that is we, I think we feel this on a much smaller scale, but I think we're quick to be like, no, don't put us on a pedestal, because we are, we're gonna fall off. We're not perfect. But what's interesting, I think, is when I'm hearing you say it, I'm like, nobody expects it to be perfect. They just think the way you live, even as a flawed person, is worth admiring.

• 1:13:37Speaker 04

  Well, I probably appreciate that.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  I, I do think that there's an expectation for perfection sometimes.

• 1:13:43Speaker 04

  I think sometimes, I'm sure, both are right, but I also think it's... That's not Christianity, though. This is, this is, I think it's so important because it's just not shared enough.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  How would I paint the picture? So many times, we talk about Christianity like it's a museum for good people, and it's not. It is a hospital for the broken.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:10Speaker 04

  Period. This is, it is not this place where, hey, you're pretty good, so you're welcome.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:17Speaker 04

  That's not Christianity. Like, Christianity is that we suck, Jesus didn't, and His blood counts for us. That you're broken, He's the healer. We're lost, He found us. Like, and it's, it's, and so that's a big heart of why it's like, no. Man, I will let you down. He will never let you down. He is the ultimate redeemer and healer and reconciler. And I want to point to Him because I know my worst days, my worst thoughts, my worst actions. And I know I will let people down, but if I point him to Him, He will never let them down.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  So while I'm listening to you talk about this, and your reluctance to, I don't want to say like, build yourself up, but sometimes, you know, in a competitive moment, I mean, I've, I've never competed on anything at your level, but there's this version.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  Except in Padell.

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  Just Padell, I'm working you, it's not even close. I'll be the Patriots. You're gonna call me the Patriots every time we play Padell.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  Do you like deflate the pedal some?

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  He got it.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  He's good. Okay. So I, you, this like, um, there's, there's something happening as you're speaking and, and you basically, I don't want to say like deflating your own ego. Maybe you would say that that's a fair thing. But sometimes in order to achieve great things, people believe that you need to almost fill yourself up with these lies to cover the doubt that you might feel.

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  What, lies?

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Not lies, but like, uh,

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  I'm unstoppable.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  I'm unstoppable, I can do this, I'm gonna go out there, we're gonna be victorious. Because you have these voices in your head, not you. One has these voices in your head like, what if we don't do it? What if we lose? And it's like, you're basically. Trying to build yourself up because there's a million different voices telling you why you're not good.

• 1:16:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I totally, I think I get that. But that's where I was going back to that song of the voice of truth and remembering, okay, this isn't how I'm defined. I don't have to live in this sin, shame and guilt. But I get to remember I'm more than a conqueror through him who loved me and he has placed me here for this moment. He has placed me here and I can have confidence in where he's placed me. And I don't have to live in that sin, shame and doubt, although it wants to fight to create it back in. But I get to live in a confidence, because when we go back to hope, I believe that the best biblical definition for hope is to look forward with confidence, expectation and anticipation. Right? We get to do that.

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Yes, this is why I'm very happy that you said the word confidence specifically, because I think a lot of times for for people, maybe who weren't raised in the church or haven't been, you know,

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  aren't like devout Christians, right? There is this version where maybe some of us are seeing you, what we would say maybe like harp on the things that are quote unquote wrong about you or like sins, right? And what we don't realize is that you can accept those things about yourself because Jesus has already died for them. When you don't add that other component, there's a hyper fixation on all the bad things that you do consistently. And I think to somebody on the outside, they might go like, how could you have confidence if you're constantly tearing yourself down with all these bad things? But true belief that somebody else bears the consequence or has already bear the consequences for those things.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Man, what a weight off your shoulders, like to be able to confront the things that you struggle with every single day, knowing that you're forgiven for them.

• 1:17:45Speaker 04

  And that you're trying to pursue life where you're.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  You're not afraid of them. You're not lying to yourself constantly.

• 1:17:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're not chained, you're not shackled by them, but you're but you're still walking this journey out, trying to grow and improve day by day. And you take steps back and then you try to take a few more forward and you grow. Again, knowing that salvation doesn't come from our works, it comes from his finished work. But that in a way to try to grow closer to him, love people, love well, you try to improve every day.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is a.

• 1:18:20Speaker 04

  I'm trying to like make some sort of a relation to people who don't believe, but maybe who have gone through therapy and they've, and they've, they've started to confront these things that they have just kind of ignored or put some or kept somewhere. And they've found that their life is better being able to confront them than when they just kind of compartmentalized and like they were always there pulling at them, but they didn't really, it's like meeting these things is incredibly valuable for self-growth. And yeah, hearing you talk about it without the component of somebody else has already handled this for me. So I'm not afraid to confront them. I think that's massive.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  Were guys coming to you in the locker room that maybe had no relationship with Christ that were saying like, hey, what was that verse? What was that thing you were saying before? Like, what did that look like?

• 1:19:09Speaker 04

  Sometimes, but I think sometimes the picture is painted that it's, you know, one or the other, when it's really most of the time, a bunch of people from different backgrounds, different faiths, different communities they come from that loved one another. And you just have a lot of conversations about a lot of stuff.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  And a lot of these guys probably grew up in the church too.

• 1:19:28Speaker 04

  A lot did, but then you had people from all sorts, just working, figuring out, talking about it. Hey, you know, and you talk about like hard things, like there's a lot of hard questions to answer.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Like what was, what was difficult?

• 1:19:40Speaker 04

  I just, it's for everyone. Like, hey, man, there's, there's so much suffering in the world. Like, how can a good God let so much suffering happen?

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  Would somebody pose that to you?

• 1:19:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, for sure. This is one of the first, is the first thing that I would say is our God is not far from the suffering. Our God is, makes it very clear that he is near to the brokenhearted. When we look at Isaiah 61 and you look at Matthew 2540, one of my favorite verses, he said, whatever you've done to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done unto me. Like in commanding us to care and love those that have been treated as less than insignificant, viewed, dehumanized, put in tough situations. Like that's our God is near to it, but our God isn't just near to it. In that sense, he's near to it in that he took on the flesh and took on flesh and lived a perfect life, but chose to die a death that we deserve to die. And he took on the sin

• 1:20:35Speaker 04

  of all of humanity upon himself so that he would be the ransom for many, scripture says. He was the ransom. He took that on himself. Like our God is not far from the hurting, he's not far from the brokenhearted. He is near. And when scripture tells us that our God is near to the brokenhearted, then it's been one of the most convicting things to me. If he's near to the brokenhearted, then I should be too. And I should be too. It's a big part of why we do what we do and feel called to do it.

• 1:21:05Speaker 05

  Do you feel like guys on the team would have like shame around you? That they saw you living a specific lifestyle that maybe they weren't and they'd be like, oh, Timmy's here. We gotta put that away. Don't do that.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  I hope not. I don't, I don't think, I don't think many times, no, because I think there, I think what surpasses that is love. And that we weren't viewing each other for the good or the bad, but we were just viewing each other. That's my teammate. That's my brother. I love him and I want to serve him. And we, man, we have been battling together and we have a common dream and vision and we were really close. And there's a lot of stories that gets told about our teams. The one that's probably the most profound and true, very rarely gets

• 1:21:55Speaker 04

  told, that we've totally had each other's back. And that people, because it doesn't sensationalize.

• 1:22:03Speaker 05

  Even Aaron?

• 1:22:04Speaker 04

  Of course. It's so hard for me to talk about it for a lot of reasons. One, because we just loved him very much.

• 1:22:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  Getting emotional talking about it. I don't want to put you in uncomfortable places.

• 1:22:20Speaker 04

  Not that.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  I don't mean now I feel bad.

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  And his family, you know, it's tough. Obviously, he loved him very much.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did you have a relationship with him outside of football?

• 1:22:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  And like in the professionals as well?

• 1:22:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I was signed with the Patriots not long before a lot of that went down.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Speaker 04

  And it's just, you know, hard what he went through. And I mean, I think there's a

• 1:22:49Speaker 04

  probably a weight that I feel.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:22:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  Like you could have done something?

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  Should have. Like, but also you got to understand.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  That's not your responsibility.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  Do you think that is? Do you carry that?

• 1:23:03Speaker 04

  Sometimes, yeah. But I think that, you know, when people ask, there's a reason that I don't say anything because why would I talk about it when he's still, so much of his family has been hurt and gone through this? And it's easy for people to just talk and make shows and highlight and also not always share all of the sides of it.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 04

  They don't share the other sides of him. They don't share how hard certain things were for him. They don't share the, you know, it just doesn't take a full picture. Like, you know, he had to go through a whole lot, but he was also someone that a lot of times was trying. And, you know, he's a young man that

• 1:23:45Speaker 04

  did it emotional for six months in a row with, with me a lot of times and Coach Meyer. A lot of times he was, you know, just the whole picture should be painted. I just think it's not, they don't, you know, there's a, one of the stories that they tell is, you know, me and him are at a restaurant and they frame it as a bar, which is, is a bar, but it's also a restaurant. I think it's maybe Sunday evening or Monday evening.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Chili's is a bar.

• 1:24:11Speaker 04

  Yes. It's, and it's, I can't remember what time. It's always claimed. It's late at night. It's like eight o'clock or something. And he, long story made short, he gets into an alter, well, I can't even say that because it's not fair to him.

• 1:24:33Speaker 04

  What certain people were saying to him was so horrifically evil that we're trying to leave. And what people are saying to him is so mean and racist and dehumanizing to him. And I'm standing in between a few people and they just know these are the football players. They're just trying to go at him and more so than me. And I also feel like that was wrong. No, you should say that to me, you know? And he was so patient over and over and over again, they're saying this and they're finger poking him. And you know,

• 1:25:15Speaker 04

  that's super disrespectful. And we get downstairs and we get almost all the way out and they keep saying and saying, I'm saying, we're good. You got it. Come on, keep going. Don't, don't listen, you know? And, and man, it was just kept going and they kept poking him, saying all these things. And he turned and he busted the guy's eardrum. And I stood there, I had some people take him to another place for him to be safe. I waited, cops came, talked to all the cops, told them everything that happened. But that story is painted like, oh, no, this guy just did it. He's looking for trouble. And it's like, I'm not, I'm not defending him. I'm not defending his actions. I'm just saying, when you paint

• 1:26:00Speaker 04

  the picture, like-

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  You, you have a lot of compassion.

• 1:26:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. But people, it's just, obviously, there are some horrible things that he did.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:26:11Speaker 04

  I'm not defending that whatsoever. I'm just saying, if you're talking about him, would you at least try to paint it accurately?

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  That's like a three dimensional version of a human being. This is what we were talking earlier. And I wonder if like, well, I'm curious where you think your compassion comes from? Because-

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  I think now especially, it's very brave to show compassion to people who aren't like internet perfect. It's like very easy, like when somebody's like perfect on the internet, it's like, yeah, they're a good guy. But when people like aren't perceived to be a good guy and still look at them as human beings, I think that takes bravery now because there's always going to be scrutiny attached to that. Personally, I think that we should be treating everybody like human beings, especially the people that we disagree with. And a lot of times, there's this mudslinging contest that exists on the internet that is

• 1:26:59Speaker 04

  Shouldn't be a choice.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:01Speaker 04

  Everyone.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  Where does the compassion come from?

• 1:27:06Speaker 04

  I'd probably say the start of it for me was when I was 15 years old and I was in the jungles of the Philippines and in a very remote island, Philippines is made up of over 7,000 islands, many of them very remote. And in a very remote island, and I met a boy who was born with his feet on backwards. And because of that, his village treated him as less than insignificant and cursed, and he was a throwaway to them. And they treated him as equal to the trash. And I just fell in love with that boy. And I knew that he wasn't a throwaway to God, but I also knew that God was pricking my heart, saying, yeah, but what are you gonna do about it? It's not enough to feel something. What are you

• 1:27:48Speaker 04

  gonna do? And, and that was really the start of what I believed the first time I felt called to something. And, and then I went through college and the first thing I did when I graduated, because this is before NIL, right? You couldn't have a foundation in college.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  You would have been a trillionaire.

• 1:28:09Speaker 04

  But I, one of the first things I did was start the foundation with the mission statement, just thinking about that boy and all the boys and girls around the world that are suffering like he is, with the mission statement to bring faith, open love to those needing a brighter day and their darkest hour need. To sum it up, it's to fight for people that can't fight for themselves. And that was very impactful for me. And there's four or five other stories that really wrecked my, my heart in the best way possible.

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  So as 15 years old,

• 1:28:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  severe emotional reaction to seeing the way that this kid is being treated.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  And you feel compelled to do something about it.

• 1:28:49Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  At this point in time, like, would you say your faith is as strong as it is now? Was it, you're still trying to understand it? Like, where are you in your journey?

• 1:29:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, good question. Definitely, definitely, definitely a believer, but also, you know, figuring out, figuring out, what does that mean? What does that mean for my life? What does that mean for actions? What does that mean to feel called to something? And I couldn't have necessarily articulated in the same way then. I remember coming home and I was writing the testimony of this and like, I don't even know how to describe what just happened.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  Do you talk to your parents about it?

• 1:29:28Speaker 04

  I did, I talked to my parents and I still have that testimony that I wrote, because I wrote out the story of when I got back. And that boy has been a big inspiration for a lot of stuff.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Is he still involved in your life?

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  No, I've never seen him again.

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  Get out of here.

• 1:29:45Speaker 03

  I mean, it's a remote jungle, yeah, how do you get in touch with them?

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  This is way before all of the-

• 1:29:49Speaker 02

  Internet and everything, but wow, wow, wow. So if he, if he's, you know, gobbling still around, like, does he know the impact that he's had on your life?

• 1:29:59Speaker 04

  Like, this is- Now we have a hospital in the Philippines that takes in all the boys and girls like him and we operate and they get wheeled in and they walk out. And that's one of my favorite things we get to do.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  That's amazing, man.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  We gotta find this kid, there's gotta be a way. All right, guys, this is the show.

• 1:30:15Speaker 04

  You know, there's other stories that led you into other fights, but then where my-

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  What else? What else? I'm really curious about these, like-

• 1:30:21Speaker 04

  And I'd say where my life really got impact and, and one of our biggest fights is the fight against one of the worst evils in the world, and that's a fight against human trafficking and child exploitation. And that started not, not long after I, I graduated college and my dad, who's a pastor missionary, was in a country where faith isn't allowed and he's in an underground pastors conference and he-

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  Which country?

• 1:30:45Speaker 04

  I can't tell you.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:30:46Speaker 04

  And he gathers pastors from all over, so the underground-

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  It's like early Christianity.

• 1:30:52Speaker 04

  So they don't get arrested and they can go back to their village and, and love on their communities. And so they're in an underground location and my dad's with these pastors and there are other people in this underground location and then some men enter with four little girls and they start an auction for these four little girls. And one of the reasons why my dad's just one of my biggest heroes and role models, he's just not someone that can look away. It's not in him. And so he takes out all the money in his wallet, which was about $1,250 for the rest of the trip and to get home. And he is able to purchase the freedom of these four girls. Wow. And then after he, after that, he calls me and I'm like, "Hey Dad, how's the trip going? You know, what are you up to?" And, you know, I'm not ready for the response.

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  He's like, "I just bought three girls." Four. Four, thank God, yeah. And I'm like, "What?" And I just couldn't help but say, "What did all the pastors do?" Because these are people that are called and commanded to love, serve, right? And he said, "I don't know if you want to hear." Like, "What do you mean? What did they do?" And he said, "Nothing." And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because they had really good excuses. Like, you know, the man that you just gave that money to, they're probably gonna do, go and do something evil with it, which is probably true. But go say that to those four girls." And, and it's so easy, and I was so convicted by this so many times, because it's so easy for us to find ways to make really good excuses. Like, "Oh no, I'm gonna do it one day. Hey, one day I'm gonna, one day I'm gonna serve. One day I'm gonna be part of something.

• 1:32:22Speaker 04

  One day I'm gonna make a difference." And we live a one-day life. And we miss so much of the impact that we could have made because we just focus on us now and maybe other people later. And so after I had this conversation not long, with my dad, not long after I got to fly to this location. And by that point, we had already gotten to start caring for more kids. And the first little girl that I met that ran up to me, was a little girl that didn't make enough money one day. And her mom, being in a place of desperation and frustration, took her and boiled out her eye. Oh my God. Because she thought, "If you can't make enough money this way, then maybe if I make you look worse, maybe they'll give you more."

• 1:33:07Speaker 04

  And, and I was just, whoa.

• 1:33:15Speaker 04

  Trying to figure out

• 1:33:20Speaker 04

  what do you say to a boy or girl

• 1:33:25Speaker 04

  about what love looks like,

• 1:33:28Speaker 04

  about what trust looks like, about what a heavenly father looks like, when their thought of love is just the first person that raped them? They have no idea about trust. When their idea of a father is the person that sold them, what do you say? And I still don't know that I have any form of a good answer, except I know our heart is, just be consistent. Show up again and again and again for every one of these lives that we are called to serve. And that was a big catalyst for me to get into the fight against human trafficking and child exploitation and even worse than that, forms of child sacrifice

• 1:34:12Speaker 04

  and just a lot of evil takes place around the world.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  Do you think that Americans are aware of how prevalent this is? Can you like, it's really difficult to hear you describe these things, but can you maybe paint a picture to?

• 1:34:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's hard. I'm grateful that you even want to ask to talk about it.

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  I just think that we hear about it in like a movie or something like that. Like an abstract concept.

• 1:34:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. To give a little bit of a context for it, we'll get to that in just a second. But

• 1:34:45Speaker 04

  so there are more people that many experts believe that are in slavery now than ever before. Fifty plus million people that are in slavery. The slavery business is about $236 billion a year business.

• 1:35:02Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 1:35:03Speaker 04

  That's more than all the NFL teams combined, with a lot left over. And it is one of the worst evils in the world. And it is happening all around the world at a massive scale. But it's also happening right here in the US. And right now, this year, somewhere between 300,000 to a million people will be trafficked in the US. And so many of those will be minors. And trafficking is a horrible Horrible evil, but also something that's really important to highlight is that the exploitation of the traffic. No, the exploitation, so a lot of people bunch them together, but they're a little bit different. Trafficking is primarily done for profit.

• 1:35:48Speaker 04

  Exploitation is primarily done for pleasure. So exploitation is, is done on the mostly, most of the time on the internet and there'll be like peer-to-peer networks that someone download a peer-to-peer network and they will share child videos and they'll be part of groups that goes back and forth and we just think this is happening, you know, over there somewhere. But I pulled something just for you guys. Can y'all pull that up? You see that? Those red dots? This is New York State. That, every red dot is a unique IP address that is downloading and sharing child images

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  and videos and that's just the last 30 days in the state of New York.

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  Whoa. And is the FBI arresting these people?

• 1:36:39Speaker 04

  Well, do you see the blue dots? Those are the ones that are being investigated.

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  So just investigation?

• 1:36:45Speaker 04

  The blue dots are the ones that are being investigated.

• 1:36:48Speaker 02

  But if you have a confirmed IP address that's sharing this type of content like...

• 1:36:52Speaker 04

  So it's a good, it's a good conversation, but, and a lot of people will say, well, how are they not doing more? Our law enforcement, can areas get better? Of course, but our law enforcement is so undermanned. It's, it does not have, many places does not have the best tech. They are undermanned. There is a few people that are, their job is this. It is not a lot. Like we have, you know, we, we want to talk about all these things and they can't, you know, and defund them. Listen, when you defund them, you're not actually caring for these boys and girls. I think we need to escalate how many hires we have, especially in victim identification to keep these boys and girls safe. It's one of our bills in Congress is the renewed hope act is so that we would hire

• 1:37:37Speaker 04

  more victim identification specialists to be able to identify these boys and girls so that we can knock on that door and go safeguard that child.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  Why do you think that this is not unanimously supported or even spoken about? Like it seems like...

• 1:37:49Speaker 04

  We've been speaking a lot about it.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Of course you guys have, but like... Why is it not amplified? Yeah.

• 1:37:54Speaker 04

  I think it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Well, we wrote our bill specifically in a way for right or left because for us it's not about politics, it's about people, especially people that are suffering. And this is trafficking, except this is just trafficking down the hall.

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Speaker 04

  The number one offender in this, biological fathers.

• 1:38:16Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:38:17Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:38:20Mark Gagnon?

  Do you think people aren't doing more about this because we feel, oh, this is a problem over there?

• 1:38:26Speaker 04

  I think that is a big part of it, yes. I feel like we think it's just over there and

• 1:38:31Speaker 02

  Over there meaning overseas?

• 1:38:32Speaker 04

  Overseas, we think it's taken, Liam Neeson, we think it's all of these other things when it's not. We have so much issues that are, so many issues that are taking place right here in our country. And I could keep going off list. We're the number one buyer of rape for boys and girls around the world. America is.

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  Meaning like videos of it?

• 1:38:50Speaker 04

  Yes, we, we pay for the rape of boys and girls in the Philippines, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Thailand. Like, we're the number one buyer in peer-to-peer sharing of, of this information. We're third worst in the world. China, Russia, US, and Italy's fourth. Like, this is one of the worst evils in the world. And people think, well, we're not doing that. Yes.

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  We do really think that.

• 1:39:15Speaker 04

  I know we do.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:17Speaker 04

  And that's, that's one of the, you know, our hearts is to get this, you know, message out to be able to make change and, and then support the, our law enforcement and task forces that are working on this. Cause there are some freaking heroes that are fighting this every single day, but they do not, they do not have as good of technology most of the time as those with the goal to do evil. They just don't. And they're also, do you know how hard it is for these law enforcement officers? When you wake up every day and you watch a video of a, an infant, of an 18, you're 18 month old, a nine month old. When you, and that's one of the number one burnout rates for law enforcement.

• 1:39:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I can't imagine.

• 1:39:57Speaker 04

  When you do that. And I think the, I think it's something around three years for them, but you take a year. You're to be trained up and now you're you're burnout. Now you've got to bring someone else on. And it's like, how do we have the manpower to do that?

• 1:40:08Speaker 02

  I mean, as much as you want to stop it, like, somebody has, I guess, watch and verify the video.

• 1:40:13Speaker 05

  This is where AI could honestly be helpful.

• 1:40:14Speaker 04

  But we're working on a lot of AI and there's a lot of amazing AI and there's there's great AI. There's AI that we're investing in and trying to build up to give the law enforcement. There's facial recognition, there's pattern recognition, there's RFID. There's so many things that there's a lot of people trying to fight back against it. It's just they don't have the it doesn't have the same awareness. People aren't talking about it like, in my opinion, this is one of the worst evils in our country. And it's something that people don't want to talk about.

• 1:40:43Mark Gagnon?

  I'm trying to process the disconnect because it's like, people do care about this issue. You see, we won't drop the Epstein thing because we think that's the only child sex ring going on. And so where we won't stop talking about that one. But if people knew it was this widespread of a problem, I think we would actually do something about it. So how do we like?

• 1:41:05Speaker 02

  Amplify. Yeah, there is a there's a huge disconnect.

• 1:41:11Speaker 05

  And so what ways can people actually combat this? Obviously, you mentioned the bill, but what are the other things people can do?

• 1:41:16Speaker 04

  Well, I think first of all, being aware, keeping your kids protected, knowing when they're on a device. One law enforcement officer told me this is how you need to think about it. When your kids get on the internet, you need to think about it like this. Like you took them to a playground, you dropped them off. And walking around that playground are hundreds and hundreds of pedophiles or groomers that want to hurt your child. That's how you should think about the internet.

• 1:41:47Speaker 02

  So would you not let your kid have a smartphone until they're much older?

• 1:41:55Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  We don't do screens.

• 1:41:57Speaker 04

  Our daughter's three and a half months old, so we haven't had to make that decision.

• 1:42:00Speaker 02

  But that's on my wife.

• 1:42:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, but we are making, we are in the process. I mean, there's so many, there's one of our friends is making a device that is for phones. It's already out now. It's called Harm Block and it does not allow pornography on your phone. You say, well, is that going to really help? Well, this is one of the big issues is if.

• 1:42:21Speaker 04

  Is if it does not allow pornography on my phone, then I also can't get sextorted. So that's another big problem, slightly different than this, but there are so many people in other countries. And Nigeria alone in 2024, Meta took down, I believe it was 74,000 accounts that were trying to sextort American boys and girls. Can you explain? Yes, they will act like they're a pretty young girl and they will try to get a photo of you. And you send them a photo. And then they extort you. And then they extort you. And then this is also leading to a lot of young kids' deaths. Yeah, because they're so embarrassed that they end up killing themselves. Yeah, they do. And so it fights against that.

• 1:43:02Speaker 04

  It also alerts the parents if your kids are getting groomed because what happens if your kid gets kidnapped? Everybody's looking for them, right? Right? Here, you would have all the NYPD looking for your kid. What happens if your kid runs away? How many people are looking for them? Not many, not many. There you have a couple of officers that will look, but not many. And so those with the goal to do evil strategize and work together many times better than those with the goal to do good. And so why would they kidnap a kid when they knew, hey, I can become friends with them. I can be on their gaming. I can be on their sites. I can befriend them. I can find the vulnerabilities and then I can just lure them out. And then when they're lured out, gone, then missing, you know?

• 1:43:47Speaker 04

  And especially we look at the children that are being trafficked. I believe the last, one of the last statistics I saw were 61% of them comes from the foster care system. So they look for kids with vulnerabilities, right? They look for kids that are trying to find a home. I want to be accepted. I want to be loved. I want a place to belong. And I believe all of that is in us. We want to belong. Of course. We want to be a part of something. And so in these, I know we're getting around a lot of areas, but the reality is there's a lot of people with a goal to do evil. And if we don't fight back and there's not an army against them, and I mean army of people that in every phase, that in technology, in law enforcement, in, in politics, in awareness, in media,

• 1:44:30Speaker 04

  and people with loud voices and people that are protecting in technologies that aren't just investigating them, but keeping kids safe. It's a battlefront on all of these areas. When you have a business that is that big, when you have.

• 1:44:44Speaker 04

  The goal to do evil that is that strong. Like I tell you, one offender said to a good friend of mine, who's been fighting us for a long time. He said, he's interviewing, he said, how did you, how did you pick your victim, specifically his victim? How did you pick this victim? And he said, was it by skin color? Was it by hair? Was it by size? No, no, no, no, no. And he's like, you answer no to everything. How did you pick your victim? He said, I watched and I watched and I watched to find the happiest kid.

• 1:45:23Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, no, man.

• 1:45:24Speaker 04

  Because I wanted to find the happiest kid so I could steal her soul.

• 1:45:30Mark Gagnon?

  Whoa. How do you deal and process this? Like, you're hearing tragic stories probably daily. Like, I'm sure it becomes like a burden on you. Like, how are you dealing with it?

• 1:45:41Speaker 02

  Don't you believe in capital punishment for some of these guys, man?

• 1:45:46Speaker 04

  I believe that there is a, um, there's a big difference. And people say, shouldn't you have grace for them sometimes? Yes, behind bars, where they can never touch another kid or child.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, forever.

• 1:46:04Speaker 04

  If that's their crime, they deserve it, yes.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  That is haunting.

• 1:46:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. And by the way, I should say this, I should say this about this. Every, every one of these offenders that are downloading and sharing this, 55 to 85 are hands-on offenders. And your average offender has 13 victims in their lifetime. So every time you, you take one off the street, you're protecting multiple kids.

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  Just take them out, just take them out.

• 1:46:31Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, how do you, how do you deal with this?

• 1:46:33Speaker 04

  That's a good question, Alex.

• 1:46:40Speaker 04

  I would say that that we have gotten to see a lot of evil in this world. And there are a lot of people with a goal to do evil. And I do believe that there is evil, but I also believe that there is good. And there's a God who's good. And I feel like there is a battle every single day. But what I also get to see is not just the evil, but it's what happens when light and darkness meet. Light wins every time. And I would, um, let me see if I can. I'm not supposed to have favorites, but one of, oh, you see, we're both up. I can't share this to the screen, but that's what's happening around the world.

• 1:47:24Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:47:25Speaker 02

  What is this?

• 1:47:28Mark Gagnon?

  These are like abducted kids or?

• 1:47:31Speaker 02

  No, they're murdered.

• 1:47:31Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, wow. Tim.

• 1:47:35Speaker 04

  But, uh,

• 1:47:37Mark Gagnon?

  like, I still, I don't understand. How does not give you like PTSD, extreme depression like?

• 1:47:43Speaker 04

  So let me, let me add on to that. Like outside of your faith, do you have therapists? Do you have like?

• 1:47:49Speaker 02

  Support system?

• 1:47:50Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:50Speaker 04

  My wife and our team, they're amazing. And we do have a lot of people that speak into us and they're amazing. And sometimes you just need to go and, and share. But I, I, I'll share this because I think it gives a little bit of an example to how it helps coping. We're not supposed to have favorites.

• 1:48:21Speaker 04

  This young girl will be one of mine.

• 1:48:25Speaker 04

  She had to go through that evil for seven years.

• 1:48:39Speaker 04

  And in the middle of her evil that she had to fight, she wrote this, because every night when she would come home, she would have to do terrible things with her siblings, visitors, people online, all sorts of horrible things. And I can barely see it. She wrote this, "My dark mask was worn at night. While at school, I would pretend, I would put my pretend smile mask over my dark soul, trying to survive another day until I ultimately lost myself. I let the darkness fill me and I wanted to die. I wrote a poem from the words that ran through my mind and heart over and over every night. Rescue me, help me.

• 1:49:24Speaker 04

  Monsters are chasing me. Can't you see? Monsters are whispering. Can't you hear? Monsters are shouting. You're nothing. Can't you feel my pain? Monsters are pushing. End it all, just jump. Can't you hear all the whys I'm asking? Monsters are laughing. You're all alone in this. Can someone please rescue me?" And when she wrote that, I knew that she was talking to me. And you get to see what the evil someone has gone through at the hands of people that just don't value other people, or they value their pleasure or profit more than they value the dignity and honor

• 1:50:08Speaker 04

  and worth of another person. But if you look at her life now, she's thriving because she was in a place where she got care and she got loved and it was wrapped around and she could finally gain trust in people and humanity again in place of belonging. And now she's in Bible college and she's figuring out either if she wants to go be a lawyer or go be in ministry, both to be able to help boys and girls that were in her position. And I would say that's how I cope with it, is you get to see someone that is in that situation.

• 1:50:43Speaker 04

  It's amazing what can happen when you truly love in an honorable way and protect in an honorable way and value and create a place of belonging. What happens to these lives? They can thrive again and their life can be different. They have experienced something that, I mean, that's why so many of them were just my heroes. But they can find that hope and a new beginning and a new joy and a new song in their heart. And that's what I hold on to more than anything else.

• 1:51:17Speaker 05

  Do you feel like your journey through everything from college to NFL to now this work, do you feel like it was leading to this specific project?

• 1:51:27Speaker 04

  All of it.

• 1:51:30Speaker 05

  Did you feel it in the moment where you like, oh, there is something greater that's beyond this?

• 1:51:34Speaker 04

  I don't know, maybe. I think that from being 15 to all the way you knew that it's not just about a game. But what does that look like? How does that actually, you know, what's that look like in the practical? But through some of the stories I shared and a few more, it was just every time I had the biggest heartbreak and fulfillment at the same time, it was caring for those that were suffering. My heart was broken for it and in caring, there was the most fulfillment, more so than there ever in a game or championship or award or praise, anything. There was just no comparison and I felt like it was just a reminder from God, this is

• 1:52:18Speaker 04

  what I want you to do. That's where you're supposed to be.

• 1:52:21Speaker 05

  Have there been more challenges in this work since becoming a father yourself? Or has it strengthened that call?

• 1:52:29Speaker 04

  Good question.

• 1:52:38Speaker 04

  It's hard to say because how can people get to a place where you can take one of the youngest girls that we've been fortunate to care for got rescued at 25 days old. And our daughter is just a little bit older than that. And I don't know how to answer, except I think it's only made the resolve stronger. There's nothing our little girl can do right now. Like, she has to be protected by those that were put in a place to care for

• 1:53:17Speaker 04

  and protect her and love her. And we cannot let individuals that want to take the vulnerable

• 1:53:26Speaker 04

  and take advantage of them. We cannot let that happen as a society. When you don't care for your vulnerable, it is absolutely the decline of a society. We go back to Nazi Germany. What did they do before the Holocaust? They had the T4 euthanasian program, where they called life unworthy of life, for those that had special needs or disabilities. And they poisoned them and put in the gas chambers and killed over 275,000 because they viewed them as life unworthy of life, called them mercy killings. Euthanasia just means good death, right? So a society that doesn't value the marginalized or the vulnerable is a society on decline. And, you know, when

• 1:54:11Speaker 04

  early Christianity, there were some people that would say, that's the religion of women, of slaves, of children, because in so many, some of those societies, they were the ones that were viewed as less than. And all of a sudden, here comes Christianity that's like, no, they ain't less than, not to our God. They're not less than. There's nobody that is less than. Everyone is made in God's image. And they're worthy of love and they're valuable to Him, so they should be valuable to us. And I think that's something our society, whether you believe or not, you should believe that every life has value, not just when they do something that is

• 1:54:51Speaker 04

  valuable for you or to you. And that's where we're at right now, is when someone does something that we don't hold as valuable, we devalue them. And that's a slippery slope.

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  Because we're not talking about value, we're talking about utility.

• 1:55:06Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you don't have utility for somebody, then are you useless? No, you still have value, you're still a human being. But it's very easy to humanize those that do not serve a purpose for us.

• 1:55:18Speaker 04

  Or we disagree with.

• 1:55:19Speaker 02

  Which is honestly enough for most. You know, it's like, okay, we have different opinions on this. Oh, you're not actually human.

• 1:55:27Speaker 04

  But it's where the like versus respect would come back to.

• 1:55:30Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:55:30Speaker 04

  Man, what if we really respected? Do you think we probably all have the same opinions on a lot of things?

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  But we can respect one another and I can choose to love you. You can choose to respect and love me. We can have good dialogue and honest conversation and we can work and we can strive to like, figure out where somebody else is coming from because we can value one another. Right, but in the places that happen around the world where you see that not happening is where you see genocide. It's where you see chaos. It's where you see crisis. And I think for our society, that would be just one of my heart says that we would fight to try to get to a place, protect the vulnerable, but value all. Like, man, I disagree with you, but man, I still believe that you're so valuable to God, I'm gonna treat you that way.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if, and I hate to harp on the internet aspect of it, but like, I wonder if losing the humanity in the people that we disagree with is so much easier when you're only fed the things that you disagree with or hate the most.

• 1:56:42Speaker 04

  And you don't actually see them.

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  You don't see them at all. This is the Charlie thing, like when I saw, when I saw what happened with Charlie and it was like, I saw like these, there were these different versions of him that existed depending on who was consuming him.

• 1:56:56Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  And I'm not like saying that you shouldn't disagree with him or that, that has nothing to do with it. What I'm saying is that if you're only seeing the things that you disagree with or hate the most, and you're not seeing like this other image where like you see him being a father and maybe you admire that and you admire the way he takes care of his family, you might, it might be the same way you look at like your grandpa or something where you essentially go like, listen, we got some views that we really disagree on here, but I love the way he treats my grandma, I love the way he treats me. Like, once you have a little bit of admiration for someone, they become this like three-dimensional human being. But when we don't have the opportunity to see that because we're just force fed information that feeds our biases on our phone, of course, it's easy to dehumanize somebody that you view as your opposition.

• 1:57:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  So maybe we have to do that, um, take that extra step, which is what kind of you were saying earlier. It's like, yeah, you, you have these moments where you want to get caught up in your ego and then you tell yourself not to. You take this moment where you're checking yourself. Maybe we've got to start doing that a little bit more. Like when I think I have an idea of some politician, I think I have an idea of some like talking head on the internet because I know I have a bunch that are completely formed by the algorithm. Maybe I have to check myself a little bit and be like, I don't even really know that person. I've only seen them talking 30 second spurts. I don't know who they are to their friends. I don't know who they are to their family. Yeah, maybe I have to like check my opinions on the people that I disagree with the most. The people I agree with, I probably already view as humans, right? Because I'm like, oh, you're like me. It's very easy to go.

• 1:58:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:25Speaker 02

  But yeah, maybe we got to start doing that. The people that we disagree with the most, we got to start finding some humanity and

• 1:58:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Oh, that's tough, though.

• 1:58:33Speaker 02

  But we got to do it.

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  What do you think's the toughest thing about it?

• 1:58:35Speaker 02

  I think it's to what we were saying earlier. It's like, I think sometimes people are concerned that if they show compassion to somebody who like the world might not view as someone who deserves compassion. I don't believe that that's fair, but they would feel like by doing it, they'd be going out on a limb and they could be scrutinized for it. How dare you care about that guy that has these opinions that are

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  And suddenly you're not worthy of compassion.

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like I, I, it was one of the things I hated the most about the Charlie thing, like there, there were people who are seemingly like celebrating it. And I was like, I don't know, I, I can't get behind the celebration of, of the, the murder of somebody's political opposition. I can't get behind it. I can't get behind it. You can still disagree with everything a person said. That's fine. But you gotta draw a line with the celebration of it.

• 1:59:27Speaker 04

  If we get to that place, then we are really saying, in our actions, your worth is only equal to your opinion.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:36Speaker 04

  That's what you're saying.

• 1:59:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:39Speaker 04

  Scary place to be, because what if all of a sudden I say the wrong thing one day? My worth's gone? Where do you draw, where do you draw the line?

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  Most, and more importantly, like, what's the point of being able to have an opinion? We're like the one place on the planet where you can actually have a free opinion. And I'm not speaking hyperbolically when I say that. Like, you go try to have an opinion on Facebook in England, you might get arrested for it. So, we have this beautiful thing that we have fought to maintain for centuries. And we can't let it all go away because we've decided to dehumanize those that we disagree with.

• 2:00:13Speaker 05

  I think there's also a component, like, and again, I'm not suggesting, you know, every society needs to be like theocratic. But like, as cultures have gotten less religious, and regardless of the religion, whether it's an Imam you have, or a priest, or a pastor, or whatever, I wonder if we now need our public figures to be more moral.

• 2:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, they have to pass this purity test.

• 2:00:33Speaker 05

  Like, we need the people to reflect, like, this divine morality because we've kind of lost it in other parts of society. Like, if I'm not going to church, I don't have a connection with God, or I don't have a connection with the pastor even. I need this musician that I really like to have, like, this perfect sort of moral standard.

• 2:00:48Speaker 04

  Well, I think everyone's gonna fall short of that.

• 2:00:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:00:51Speaker 04

  And then where do you define that moral standard? Right? And who do we allow to say what is moral and what's not?

• 2:00:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. It's kind of, you just have to reflect my morality, which, once someone deviates from that in any direction, then it's like, oh, they're canceled, they're off, they don't have my politics, so.

• 2:01:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:09Speaker 05

  And then you force people to kind of cover it up and create like this image of themselves. And then eventually that leaks.

• 2:01:14Speaker 02

  And then could you, and then, can you work that out? Like, if there was more of a religious influence on society, how that would change the way that we viewed these famous figures?

• 2:01:24Speaker 05

  I don't know. I think if people had more relationship with any type of sort of like, you know, international faith, like, outside of like cults and things like that, but just any type of relationship with a monotheist to God, or God in general, then I wonder if they go like, okay, I can recognize the brokenness in humanity, but I don't need all of the people that I admire to be perfect because I have a connection with perfection. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder if there's like, a sense where it's like, okay, this person's broken, just like I'm broken, but I'm not deifying them because I already have this deity, I have God.

• 2:01:53Speaker 02

  Or maybe it's a connectivity to your own brokenness. And maybe with a lack of religiosity, we're almost like gaslighting ourselves. We're like trying to pretend that we're not broken. We've compartmentalized these broken parts because we're afraid to acknowledge it. And then when we see it in others, it's a reminder of like who we are. So we have to tear down these other figures. But we're essentially projecting our own insecurities.

• 2:02:16Speaker 05

  And again, I'm not saying every person needs to be religious, but just that I think that like almost looking at it sociologically, like as societies lose religion, I wonder if they just do that sort of instinctually.

• 2:02:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's they're unaware of the action, but it does it does track. Yeah, there is something about like not being afraid of your flaws. There's incredible value in that, embracing your flaws. And then when you embrace your own flaws, it's very hard to judge others for the same flaws that they have. When you ignore your flaws, it becomes easy to judge. Right? You're like, I don't have anything.

• 2:02:52Speaker 05

  A good way to cope with your flaws is to judge other people.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:55Speaker 05

  And I mean, you even.

• 2:02:56Speaker 02

  How do you battle with that? Yeah, how do you battle that, especially with Christianity? I've heard I've heard a lot of like Christians talk about that, which is like this this like purity test that they think sometimes people aren't passing like within the faith. And it's like, and people going specifically, none of us are pure. Why are we imposing this purity test on each other when the whole point is that we're not pure? We're gonna try.

• 2:03:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, first, first apostle my head is for by grace you have been saved through faith. It is not of your works, it is a gift of God, so no one should boast. We have been saved through faith that is a gift of God. It is not of ourselves, so you can't boast. But if we do boast, we boast on Him.

• 2:03:39Speaker 02

  Him, yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:40Speaker 04

  Like not on us. And I think that that would be the heart of what we should get back to. Like, man, if we look at what God has done in scripture, and I know not everybody might believe scripture, but if you just look at it, look at all of the people that God has used.

• 2:03:59Speaker 02

  Most were super flawed.

• 2:04:02Speaker 04

  Like, but I think there is a picture that God's painting to say, like, you know who I didn't show up for? The perfect, the one that thinks they never did anything. That's why I use the example earlier of it's a hospital for the broken. Right? And I think that also pairs to James four, eight, maybe I'm not. But that God is God is opposed to the God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Right? And why is that match with this? Because you have to humble yourself to realize that you're broken. So you need a healer, you need a savior. Right? I think all of those things jive with what this conversation is. If I realize I'm broken and I've fallen short, then guess what?

• 2:04:47Speaker 04

  Someone else that has, I'm not going to say, look at how you've fallen short. I'm going to say, hey, you want to be on this journey together as we just try to work to improve? And, and, and, and find the healing. And I think all of that would jive in that conversation.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  That's really interesting, the importance of humility.

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  If, if you have no humility, how can you access?

• 2:05:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. Your Savior. And I think one of the things that's really important is how we define humility. I've heard a lot of different ways in my life being defined. But one of the interesting ways how modern psychologists define humility is taking an accurate view of oneself. And if we took an accurate view of ourselves and we thought, man,

• 2:05:28Speaker 04

  you know, I might have some okay days, but man, I, I have some bad thoughts, got some bad actions. I have fallen short in all of these ways. Then I see somebody else that has done that. I'm going to be so much quicker to mercy and compassion and kindness than I am if I don't actually have an accurate view of myself. And I'm like, you know what? I'm okay. I'm all right at this thing, you know? Like, you're not going to have the same level of compassion and kindness for them.

• 2:05:55Speaker 03

  You know, it's interesting is when I was growing up, I had a lot of, I'm not good enough. And I didn't want to deal with that. So I would focus on all these negative things. But instead of dealing with that, I'd say, well, this guy sucks too. He's XYZ. And then I was like, hey, there's only one perfect person ever. That was God. I'm not that. No one else is. I got flaws, they got flaws. It's okay. We all got flaws. It's not a big deal. So it was like the opposite side of the same coin almost where like, yeah, the humility was. I'm not nearly as bad as I think I am. And that's okay. And that person is not perfect either. And that's how we exist.

• 2:06:24Speaker 04

  But I think one of the important things that we have to fight with that too, is we have to fight comparison. Because the other thing we're talking about right now is comparison.

• 2:06:32Speaker 02

  Thief of joy.

• 2:06:32Speaker 04

  Well, I'm not that. Yes, that's exactly right. It is the thief of joy. Because I really believe that you cannot have a mindset of comparison and a heart of gratitude at the same time. I don't believe that they coexist. You can go back and forth. Because if I'm really comparison. And by the way, I saw one stat that said 12% of our daily thoughts are spent in some form of comparison.

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  I would imagine that's.

• 2:06:57Speaker 04

  Like, look at all of the social media, what it leads us to.

• 2:07:00Speaker 02

  I would imagine more than 12%. Yeah.

• 2:07:04Speaker 04

  Maybe that's true. Then it's even more, right? But if we're spending our time comparing ourselves, I wish I looked like her. I acted like him. I had this job. I got this. I did that. I just don't believe you can be grateful at the same time. And if you're not going to be grateful, then there's no way that you can be content. And it's going to steal your joy. It is exactly right. And when we're in a society that is so quick to compare, but so slow to be grateful. And that would be something else, I think, plays into the same point.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Is it hard for you to be proud of yourself?

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a great question.

• 2:07:41Speaker 04

  That's a good question.

• 2:07:42Speaker 03

  That's a great question.

• 2:07:43Speaker 04

  How would you even define it?

• 2:07:45Speaker 02

  I mean, you can define it however you'd like. But there is, you've spoken a lot about how imperfect you are. And I wonder if you are hesitant to compliment yourself or be proud of the things that you're doing right. And if you can give yourself some.

• 2:08:09Speaker 04

  That's a good question.

• 2:08:11Speaker 02

  Or do you hand that all off to God? Is anything good in you, Jesus? And anything bad in you, you? And then what is your relationship with yourself?

• 2:08:20Speaker 04

  To a certain extent, yeah, it's a good question. It's a really good. I'm just thinking, I don't want to give you a staged answer. I want to give an honest answer. I think that it's just.

• 2:08:34Speaker 04

  I can be grateful for some of the things that I get to be a part of. Like, man, it's just, they're so meaningful. But I'm also afraid, I guess, maybe, I don't think best word, but I can use it for now. Afraid to think that I was too much a part of that. Cause it's just not about me and I know the slippery slope, how far it can go.

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  Cause then you start thinking that you're the one responsible for all these things. So when you and when you and your team were able to achieve greatness, for example, was that easier to feel good about because it was something that you guys did together?

• 2:09:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I still get that with the teams and our partners around the world and law enforcement and all the people we get to work with.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  With a golf. You shoot a great 18. Can you sit there and be like, man, I played really well today?

• 2:09:25Speaker 04

  Yes, I can do that.

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  I've been practicing and I've.

• 2:09:27Speaker 04

  Because it's so much less meaningful. I think I can do that.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  So you can be proud of other things that aren't that important.

• 2:09:33Speaker 03

  Probably. Was it hard to be proud of your Heisman?

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Ooh, knowing that you're getting this accolade for something that is a team sport.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  Is it hard to be regarded as probably the greatest college football player ever by many?

• 2:09:51Speaker 04

  I think that my heart with it was, and I don't say this as a way to try to be humble. I say this as a reality is every person that's won the Heisman has won it because they've had crazy amount of support and a lot of great players around them. And I was terrified of not mentioning all my teammates from the speech. You know, but at the same time, like, I think sometimes maybe I did it too much and could have just like celebrated and been like, enjoyed it more, you know?

• 2:10:17Speaker 03

  It's not too late.

• 2:10:20Speaker 04

  But you know what? I, I, I actually didn't think I was gonna win my first year. I thought I would win my second year, cause you know, I lost that one. I still think that's the only. I knew I was gonna lose my third year there.

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  Who'd you think would win the first year?

• 2:10:35Speaker 04

  Darren McFadden. Cause he just had a stupid good game against LSU and I was like, he just ran for like 250 or some stupid number. And he was a monster. And, but the second year, we had just beaten everyone team in the country last game and I thought we might. And I think it's still maybe the only time, if I have it right, the only time the person with the most first place votes didn't win.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:11:00Speaker 04

  It's good trivia. Who got the most first place votes? I did. Oh, you didn't win the second time. The third year you? Lost Mark Ingram on it.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  So you were the most first place votes, but there were enough?

• 2:11:13Speaker 04

  When you vote for it, you put down first, second and third.

• 2:11:15Speaker 02

  Ranked choice or whatever.

• 2:11:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, and so I just wasn't, I was left off a lot of ballots as second, third.

• 2:11:21Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 2:11:22Speaker 04

  Just left off entirely? I, we're just not as highly voted on it, but yeah. That was the year you won the national championship, right?

• 2:11:28Speaker 02

  Did anybody look into that? Was there like some kind of?

• 2:11:31Speaker 04

  No, there was no conspiracy theory.

• 2:11:33Speaker 02

  Nothing?

• 2:11:33Speaker 04

  No, it's good, it's fine.

• 2:11:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:11:36Speaker 04

  No, it doesn't seem like it. Honestly, I felt like it was probably the best thing for our team.

• 2:11:41Speaker 02

  Oh, because then the focus was on the team?

• 2:11:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, you should have seen the text that I got that night.

• 2:11:45Speaker 02

  What were they saying?

• 2:11:47Speaker 04

  We got you.

• 2:11:50Speaker 04

  You're like, a lot of things I can't say.

• 2:11:53Speaker 02

  I love it. I love it. Like it inspired you guys. It is, just everybody wanted to give it that much more.

• 2:11:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, and then our, we were playing against Heisman winner in national championship.

• 2:12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:04Speaker 04

  Great, crazy talented, great player, and our defense played out of their mind.

• 2:12:08Speaker 02

  Because they wanted to let you know?

• 2:12:09Speaker 04

  No, they didn't want to let, it just, it's, the whole team played great. They, it wasn't for me. Who did y'all play that year? Oklahoma. Oh, was it, what was his name? Sam? Sam Bradford. Bradford, yeah, yeah, Sam Bradford, yeah. So talented, great player.

• 2:12:22Speaker 05

  I'm curious, in hindsight, now, are you able to look and kind of laugh at the butt fumble?

• 2:12:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think I would laugh then.

• 2:12:32Speaker 05

  Did you laugh then? Or were you kind of like, bro?

• 2:12:34Speaker 04

  No, because we were losing.

• 2:12:36Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:12:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, but, um.

• 2:12:40Speaker 04

  It's funny, people were like, what was it like playing for the Jets? And I'm like, I don't know, I didn't play for him, I just stood there for him.

• 2:12:48Speaker 03

  So this actually is a, I don't know if this is what is a football, but you did, you got no second, third place votes for the Heisman. NFL, I felt like you won a playoff game, your, I think it was your first year starting.

• 2:12:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:13:00Speaker 03

  And then Elway comes in, he wants Manning, whatever. Do you feel like there's a?

• 2:13:04Speaker 04

  Probably a good choice for him.

• 2:13:05Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:13:06Speaker 04

  Paying pretty dang good. Good choice.

• 2:13:08Speaker 03

  They did win the Super Bowl, and I think Peyton Manning is one of the all-time greats, but they kind of won it with him as a bus driver a little bit, which I feel you could have done. Do you just in general feel like?

• 2:13:17Speaker 04

  Thank you for the kindness.

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, which do you feel like? He has a unique ability to insult everybody. I understand, I think, do you feel like there's a level of disrespect that you've gotten for maybe bleeding with your faith or whatever that people are like eh? Cause to get no second and third place votes and get all the first place votes, it seems to me there might be a bias.

• 2:13:36Speaker 04

  I don't know. Um, I, I think that, um, my style of play was a little bit.

• 2:13:44Speaker 03

  It was unorthodox.

• 2:13:45Speaker 04

  It was unorthodox. And I feel like now it's a probably a better time for that.

• 2:13:49Speaker 03

  But you were saying that. Yeah, a little ahead of your time. Like the jump pass and all that was just like back then.

• 2:13:54Speaker 04

  It was awesome. I think it's ever gotten stopped. I mean, I just love it when you have all these people. And it sort of happened by accident. Like we, Urban ran a similar play at Utah and I think it was against BYU. And they showed me the film and they say, but the guy just took one step up and step back and tossed it like that. Yeah, I think, I think it was Utah and it worked. And so he's like, hey, well do something like this, but let's practice it against our defense on Tuesday. And our defense is probably best in the country in my freshman year. They're just a joke. And on Tuesday and we, it's like fake a QB power, run down, put my head up, come up, tied in, wide open. And you, you know, the coaches are all like, oh, this is good. That looks pretty good. Like we like that. So we're playing LSU, who's got one

• 2:14:38Speaker 04

  of the best teams in country, crazy, it's back and forth game, end of the first half. And I go, all right, we're gonna do the jump pass. And, but he's like. You can't come down with it because we're gonna get tackled and I'll run out of time. We don't have timeouts left, all of that. So I get the snap, I run up there, I see them all draw in, but our tight end, Tate Casey's getting held at the line of scrimmage, he can't get off.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  He got jammed up.

• 2:15:01Speaker 04

  So I jump and you could see me and it's almost like I don't even know what I'm doing. It's like I, it's like I don't, I'm afraid of double dribbling or something.

• 2:15:09Speaker 04

  And I'm like double clutching, he finally, I just lofted in the air because I don't know when he's gonna get off, and he gets off and he catches it and then that was the start of that.

• 2:15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:16Speaker 04

  And actually, we ran in so many different ways and I think, I think we were a hundred percent on it in college and it actually was the game winning play in the national championship. Two years later against Oklahoma as well, jump pass, won the national championship as well.

• 2:15:30Speaker 02

  Okay, I know you gotta get out of here. We're gonna let them, I first would like, love if you could just tell us, and I want to include like in the description stuff here, ways where we could help with the charity work that you're doing.

• 2:15:41Speaker 04

  Wow, I appreciate that. You can just go to timtebowfoundation.org and check it out.

• 2:15:45Speaker 02

  And that's the sex trafficking one.

• 2:15:47Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, well, it's all of it.

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  All is part of it.

• 2:15:49Speaker 04

  The fight against trafficking exploitation, the fight for those with special needs, orphan care, the supporting foster families and foster care, special needs care for hospitals. So we're fortunate to have 46 safe homes and 24 more in progress and a bunch of orphanages, special needs campuses, and then the task forces and the operations and then the long-term restoration. So it's just, our hearts, what we wake up and do every day, so we're grateful.

• 2:16:17Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 2:16:18Speaker 04

  Beautiful, thank you, man. That's awesome.

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Dude, we really appreciate you coming and hanging out, man.

• 2:16:22Speaker 04

  It's our pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's a really fun conversation.

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  I hope you guys had a great time. This was awesome and you're doing amazing work and.

• 2:16:28Speaker 04

  Thank you, brother.

• 2:16:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

• 2:16:31Speaker 04

  My pleasure.

• 2:16:31Speaker 02

  Really appreciate it.

• 2:16:32Speaker 04

  Ah, enjoy it.