The Business of Being a Billionaire ft. Baiju Bhatt

Robinhood co-founder Baiju Bhatt breaks down what it's actually like being a billionaire. From getting rejected 50+ times by investors to building a billion-dollar company in 3 years, we talk about the systems billionaires use to manage money, raising grounded kids with wealth, and why NYC still makes him feel poor. Plus: do billionaires have secret banks? What's his biggest financial ick? And why is he now trying to beam solar energy from space? Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones is a Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  See if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch's AI assistant anything about your finances. Like, hey, how much should I spend on travel last summer? Can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before, like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up? Or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools, like a full financial advisor in your pocket. And that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to monarch.com, use code trading. The first year of Monarch Core is half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year. Just go to monarch.com with code trading.

• 1:29Haley Sacks?

  Okay, we all love to romanticize being your own boss, but even when you have a team, you still end up being the bookkeeper, the marketing department, and the person rearranging appointments at 11:00 PM. And that work isn't just annoying, it is expensive. And it's especially taxing for businesses that run on appointments. So if you own a business that takes bookings, this one's for you. Gloss Genius is the system that runs the operations for you behind the scenes. Scheduling, payments, admin handled automatically. Payment processing is a flat rate with zero hidden fees. And check out Rebook's clients on the spot. Clients can book in seconds too, so there's no login or separate app necessary. So you actually get more appointments.

• 2:12Haley Sacks?

  125,000 businesses already trust Gloss Genius to earn them more and save them time. Want to try it out for yourself? Go to glossgenius.com and use code FINANCIAL for 50% off your first two months of a premium plan.

• 2:31Haley Sacks?

  What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea. What's up, sippers? Welcome back to Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and financial pop culture. Today's guest is basically the blueprint for new money. Beijou Bot is the co-founder of Robinhood, and you guys, he's here. And just to be clear, Robinhood is the reason that you can take out your phone and trade stocks for free. Like, it's that investing app that democratized it for millennials who are always on their phones. And he's basically the reason that retail investor became a household name. Like, he made investing part of the culture

• 3:12Haley Sacks?

  for everyone, not just Wall Street. But Tea, Baiju, has stepped away from his day-to-day life at Robinhood. Guys, he's not the company anymore. I mean, he's still on the board, but now he's on to his next chapter, which is obviously space. Like, he's trying to beam solar energy from space to Earth using lasers, which is chic and we should probably find out about. But this is some billionaire shit. And today, speaking of which, we're going to talk about the business of being a billionaire. So like, what it's like to actually go from being a physics student at Stanford with immigrant parents to having a net worth with nine zeros. The responsibilities that come with it, who's in his inner circle when your life changes that dramatically, and how you think about money once you've already won the game. Like, why is he still working? Shouldn't he retire? But first,

• 3:57Haley Sacks?

  let's get into the MDJ Market Report, Breathe Fresh Weekly. So we are up to date on what's even happening on Wall Street these days.

• 4:06Haley Sacks?

  Okay, guys, welcome to the Market Report. This is our Monday evening edition. It is 8:00 PM.

• 4:15Haley Sacks?

  It just popped open a fresh spin drift. We're about to get into it because there is a lot that you need to know about what's happening in finance and the economy right now. So I literally just got back from my parents' house in Miami. I ran over to the office, pressed record, and we're going to go through it. So here are the stories that you need to know. Okay, first of all, I don't know if you've heard, but the Dow did hit 50K for the first time last week. So like, the Dow is crushing, the stock market is doing amazing. You're probably like, yes, Mrs. Dow Jones, let us pop champagne.

• 4:49Haley Sacks?

  And you know, like, I'm definitely excited, but what I'm also a little worried about is the wealth discrepancy, because we live in a little something called a K-shaped economy. And what that means is like with the letter K, if you are on the top arm of that K, things are going up. You're going to the moon. If you own assets, only thing that you are doing right now is making more and more money. But the bottom leg of that K is going down, and that's everyone who doesn't own assets. And it's like, yeah, they are struggling. And the gap between those two arms is just getting wider and wider. Groceries have increased 25% in the last like four or five years, but wages have not kept up.

• 5:32Haley Sacks?

  So I mean, A, this is why we always talk about investing. We're obsessed with investing. You've got to get on that upper leg of the K by owning assets. But also, I just like have been reading all these crazy stories about billionaires and the wealth gap. And I'm like, something's brewing. There's something that's gonna happen. Because, you know, like in this society, you can't, like, we need a middle class. We need a middle ground. And that's sort of disappearing. But yeah, so Dow hit 50K. We're excited. But we're also a little nervous because we want to make sure that, uh, that we do have a middle class. And we don't just have top tier and a bottom tier, baby. Okay, the next story is, you know, of course, we're talking about

• 6:12Haley Sacks?

  the wealth gap. The wealth gap is hitting a 30-year high. So California, little state called California, has decided to enforce a wealth tax. Well, you know, they're, they're voting to get it through. It's not official yet. But basically, they want to charge billionaires a 5% tax. Um, and yeah, you know, they've got them right where they want them. They said, pause up. You're, you're gonna have to pay taxes now. Because, you know, billionaires hate taxes. But here's the thing that they didn't account for is that they could just move these people. Yeah, they can actually just get new houses. And that is what they've done. They are all moving to Florida. The founders of Google just bought places in

• 6:56Haley Sacks?

  Florida. Mark Zuckerberg was just announced to be moving to Florida. Bezos is already there. There is a full-on billionaire exodus from California to Florida. And yeah, so, you know, you can run, but you can't hide, is what I say. Because- I do think that we are getting to the point where there probably needs to be a little bit of tax reform around billionaires. But right now, the only thing that's really being taxed is our patience for humidity. So we have to see where we land there. But if you want to hear what happens when a billionaire chooses to share the wealth voluntarily, look no further than our

• 7:37Haley Sacks?

  girl, Mackenzie Scott, formerly Bezos, because she has just set a new record for charitable giving. Yep. She has donated, say with me now, $26 billion in the last seven years. Like, while everyone is, you know, fighting over tax brackets, moving to Miami, Mackenzie is just out here writing unrestricted checks, which is really cool. And basically means she does not micromanage her giving. Like she, you know, vets a foundation, decides she wants to donate to them. And then she gives them the money and she leaves them alone. She lets them do their work, which is freaking amazing. She gave away $7.2 billion just last year, which is more than her ex, Jeff, and Elon

• 8:17Haley Sacks?

  Musk have given away in their lifetimes combined. Yeah, let that sink in. So, um, love you, Mackenzie. You are everything to us. And if you're watching this, just know, we would love to have you on the show. We would. We really would. Oh, and speaking of protecting your wealth strategically, Jessica Alba, girl, congrats. Jessica Alba's divorce went through from Cash Warren. Yep, they are officially no longer husband and wife. But it was a bit of a, you know, a tough one to figure out because they famously had no prenup, which is like, Jessica, you know, talk to me, girl. We will make sure that never happens again. But she and she was so successful. She started the Honest Company, which is like, everyone's obsessed with the Honest Company, the baby wipes, my little nephew,

• 9:01Haley Sacks?

  Ernest, he's always using the Honest Company wipes. Like, they really do a lot of good work over there. But I felt like the husband could have really taken her for a pretty penny. But I was shocked to see that they have settled for a $3 million payment. So he's going to get a $3 million split up into two payments, 1.5 million this year, 1.5 million next year, and then they're done. No spousal support, no nothing. And I sort of feel like she crushed it. I mean, she has a lot of money and a lot of assets and she just had to do three mil. Go, girl. Go, Jessica. Team Jessica. That is a clean exit, if I've ever seen one. Um, okay, that is the market tea for this week.

• 9:45Haley Sacks?

  Now let's go to my conversation with Beijubot on the business of being a billionaire. You're gonna love this one.

• 9:55Haley Sacks?

  Beijubot, welcome to the financial tea. We're so excited that you're here. Before we kick things off, I just wanted to ask you a few quick questions.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:04Haley Sacks?

  What's the coolest thing that you're wearing?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Oh, it's definitely this necklace.

• 10:08Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  My wife got this for me.

• 10:09Haley Sacks?

  That's sick.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Isn't that amazing?

• 10:11Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  This is my 40th birthday gift. And on the back is the solar system.

• 10:16Haley Sacks?

  No. Oh, because you love space?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  I do, yeah.

• 10:19Haley Sacks?

  Yes, because your dad also was like, worked at NASA.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:23Haley Sacks?

  So it's in your blood.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  I grew up around like the space industry in my whole life. My dad was a research scientist at Langley Research Center.

• 10:30Haley Sacks?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Working with NASA and actually doing stuff that's not that dissimilar from what I'm doing now, which like.

• 10:37Haley Sacks?

  All roads lead back.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.

• 10:40Haley Sacks?

  What about, do you have any financial icks? Like, you're obviously around a lot of people, probably around a lot of like really successful people. And like, when they're moving with money, like, is there ever behaviors that just sort of give you the, the heebie jeebies?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  I think spending like an exorbitant amount of money on food.

• 10:58Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay, interesting.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, that I'm just like, I don't really get it because you eat it and then you poop it out and then it's like, it's gone. You know what I mean?

• 11:05Haley Sacks?

  Do you have an example of that?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  I sometimes go out to these events and people have the fanciest wine.

• 11:10Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  And I'm like, number one is going to be headache immediately.

• 11:13Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Number two, like, what do you, you know, I did, I guess there's a, there's a real like. If you're into it, there's like a, you know, like, there's a cool factor to like, here's a really important, expensive thing and we're just gonna consume it. But I guess maybe I'm saying I don't really like wine that much.

• 11:30Haley Sacks?

  Last question, do you feel rich today?

• 11:33Speaker 02

  New York always makes me feel poor.

• 11:35Haley Sacks?

  Damn.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  New York always makes me, because I, when I first was an entrepreneur, like I started my first two companies in New York and I was dead broke, like dead, dead broke. I remember my co-founder and I had a two-bedroom apartment that was also our office. And at the time, we had like several of our college friends that were interns, but we weren't actually paying them anything. Some of them were, but anyways, they were living with us. And so there were like, at least like three or four dudes living in a two-bedroom apartment. And it was just

• 12:10Haley Sacks?

  It was too much.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  sweaty and miserable and we were so broke. So yeah, every time I come to New York, I sort of just like get

• 12:18Haley Sacks?

  You like remember, it's like PTSD.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  It's a little bit like PTSD.

• 12:21Haley Sacks?

  What did it like look like when you were broke? Like, like what were like some of your habits?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Well, I just remember I used to eat like, like the halal street meat guys or like the shawarma down the street.

• 12:31Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Like, that was like the go-to meal.

• 12:33Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. So you and Vlad, your co-founder of Robinhood, started two companies before Robinhood? So like, you know, people always talk about finding the one in relationships, but like, did you feel like you found that with Vlad at Stanford? You like laid eyes on him and you were like, that's the one, that's my co-founder.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  I kind of do, yeah. I kind of do. I remember the first time I met him, actually. We met during one of the summers in between the years of college and we were both in this like summer research program through the physics department.

• 13:01Haley Sacks?

  And you had so much in common?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were both only children. We both grew up in Virginia. We both had some variation of this haircut.

• 13:08Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, it was a gray haircut.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 13:10Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  And we were both studying physics.

• 13:12Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  And so, and it's kind of like this thing, like, for me at least, going to Stanford, having grown up kind of broke, like you know, they're like, oh my God, not only is this place intellectually intimidating,

• 13:22Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  but the people here come from like

• 13:24Haley Sacks?

  Nepo babies, AF.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, they come from like well-to-do families. And you just, I felt very lonely and I found myself like looking for Basically like really, really long-term friendships. I mean, I met my wife at Stanford.

• 13:37Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, everything happened sort of early.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  My co-founder there. And so, yeah, we were kind of like, I was like, oh, this is like the brother I never had.

• 13:44Haley Sacks?

  The guy. Okay. But when you were first time founder at Stanford, how did you raise money? Cause I feel like so many people are going to, you know, they're, they're going to want to know what are the secrets? Cause a lot of people are trying to raise for their businesses and especially in this economic landscape, not easy.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, we, we ate shit and burned a lot. Like we sucked at it.

• 14:05Haley Sacks?

  How many times did you get node?

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Like probably over 50.

• 14:09Haley Sacks?

  How did you even get those intros?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  I mean, we would just, I mean, this was kind of the, I, I look back on what was useful about going to Stanford and, and doing this. Cause I studied physics and math. That was not super relevant for creating Robinhood. What was really relevant was when we were in our early twenties, trying to start a company, we had a, like a, you know, like basically a badge that we were smart. We went to Stanford. We studied physics and math. And so there was a certain point where like people just took us somewhat seriously, which took on different forms.

• 14:42Haley Sacks?

  It was worth getting the degree.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was absolutely. Uh, so I think that's like one of the biggest things that came from it. But going through all those meetings and like hearing no's from investors, there was a bunch of really interesting stuff that came of it. And I think this will actually be useful for people that are listening to this.

• 14:56Haley Sacks?

  Okay, good.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  But there was a version of those early pitches where we had this like very detailed plan of what we thought we were going to do, right? It's like, we're going to build this and then this and then this. And we would go and we would pitch it to investors. And it was not like, like that wasn't actually what would play out, right? Like the, the plan was like very detailed in specific ways and people would pick it apart and be like, it's not going to work because of this thing. And we'd be like, well, That's just what we think we're gonna try to do, but we're gonna ideally figure it out over time. And then the light bulb kind of went off, I think, probably after like a year or two of not really succeeding at fundraising, that fundamentally, when people

• 15:40Speaker 02

  invest in companies at an early stage, before you've got a product, before you've got like substantive stuff to show for it, is they're betting on the people.

• 15:49Haley Sacks?

  Hundred percent.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  They're betting on like whether they think you are a good entrepreneur. The idea could be completely wrong.

• 15:56Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  But are you the kind of person that's gonna-

• 15:58Haley Sacks?

  Who's gonna see it through?

• 15:59Speaker 02

  And so then, I remember early on, like, when we were trying to raise the first million dollars to get the thing started, we started doing it differently, where we would go in and we'd be like, we'll send you the materials afterwards, but at the first meeting, we just want to talk to you about what the idea is.

• 16:16Haley Sacks?

  That's sort of punk rock.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:18Haley Sacks?

  Sort of flipped it on their, on their head. You said, you know, we're actually, we're gonna drive this ship.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  What people actually cared about, and this, you know, there are still plenty of people that said no.

• 16:28Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  But they were fundamentally interested in whether we were the guys.

• 16:32Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  That we're gonna see it through, even if the idea was totally wrong.

• 16:39Haley Sacks?

  With Robinhood, though, what's so crazy is that three years after launching it, so you're going from, okay, you're in New York, you guys are broke, you have your two startups, then you move back to California, you start Robinhood, three years later, it gets a valuation for a billion dollars. Did that give you financial whiplash? Like, what did that feel like? How did that change your everyday?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  I didn't change it that much in the very beginning. I mean, I, I kind of told myself the moment I made some money, I was gonna buy a Porsche 911.

• 17:13Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, so you're a big car guy.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did that. That was like one of the first things that I did.

• 17:17Haley Sacks?

  What color?

• 17:17Speaker 02

  A black one.

• 17:18Haley Sacks?

  Chic, okay. Do you still have it?

• 17:19Speaker 02

  I do, actually, yeah.

• 17:20Haley Sacks?

  You can never get rid of it.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 17:21Haley Sacks?

  No, that's your baby. She's iconic.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. But what did change in those early days? I think- Being able to exhale a little bit, right? Was a big part of it. I think also being able to like earnestly focus on the the company building. Cause if you're, there's a threshold of being broke where it's very distracting.

• 17:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, totally. And expensive, like if you have overdraft fees, things like that, where it's like, you just feel like you're on this hedonic treadmill.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  And interestingly, to that point, like through the history of building Ramadan, one of the things that I, that I did very regularly is I would go and interview customers. Like I would go travel around to middle America. And just sort of pretend I was a software engineer, something like that. So people weren't like, oh, that's the guy.

• 18:07Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  That's, you know, that's the guy that started in the corner. And just listen to the stories of people and their money. And you realize exactly like this, where overdraft fees and stuff like this, like that's like a big deal for people in their lives.

• 18:21Haley Sacks?

  It's a huge deal and it's a whole industry. Like that's like what propels so many financial services companies.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:28Haley Sacks?

  So, okay, so nothing really changed, but like, did how people treat you change? Like, did you have any like weird moments? And also how with your actual bank account, like when you, when your net worth is tied up in a company that is highly valued, that's not liquidity. So like, you know what I mean? So you're like, I know about liquidity, but like, so how does it actually like, you know, affect you?

• 18:52Speaker 02

  So I, you know, I stole, I sold a little bit of stock in the early days of the company, which I think as an entrepreneur, if you get that chance to do it, especially if you're the first time around is I think a, it's a, it helps you kind of think a little bit more long term.

• 19:05Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Cause you, if you have the situation where on paper, you've got like a zillion dollars, but in your bank account, you've got like nothing.

• 19:14Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  That's not gonna, that's not how you want to be approaching your day to day. Like you wanna, you wanna have a little bit of calm. Again, kind of in service of this idea of like focusing on the thing you're trying to accomplish. Right? Cause at the end of the day, that, that decade or so of my life was about building that product and making it useful for people. Right?

• 19:35Haley Sacks?

  But you did, yeah, it worked.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  And so like, everything else is noise. Like it's the product and serving the customers that is the alpha and the omega of every day. And that's kind of how I approached it, right? So like if you're. And this is kind of, again, kind of coming back to love of cars. Like, that's one thing I kind of used to say is I could kind of like booby trap my life with fun stuff. Cause no matter what I'm doing during the day, I still have to like go back and forth from work. And so if I can make that little part of my day a little bit more joyful, because I love cars.

• 20:07Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Like, it helps kind of focus on the main thing, which is building products that people want and making them useful for people.

• 20:20Speaker 03

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• 21:14Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so life changed really fast, but then you were in it for a while. But, you know, yeah, so you, but you met your wife in college.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:23Haley Sacks?

  So how long into Robin Hood did you guys like get married?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  We got to, so we dated for a few years before we broke up for a little while.

• 21:32Haley Sacks?

  Do you think it's important to break up, like, in any relationship?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  I think it was important for us.

• 21:36Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I feel like that always works, though. It's like, then you come back together.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were also like, we were kids when we first met, right? We were like, we were like college sweethearts.

• 21:45Haley Sacks?

  It's like the Notebook vibes.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then we got back together and when we did, it was like, we were like, okay, if we're gonna do this, like, we're definitely.

• 21:53Haley Sacks?

  We're in it.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  We're gonna get married, we're gonna have family.

• 21:56Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  The whole nine yards.

• 21:58Haley Sacks?

  Do you have people like, I feel like something that is not really talked about, but that's so important is like, as your life gets bigger, as you get more successful, as you accumulate more wealth, you also have to accumulate like a team around you to support that.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's important.

• 22:13Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. So like, what does, what did that look like to set that up? Cause obviously you set up many companies, but like now you are a company too. Your home life is a company.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna give a shout out to my trainer who I got kinda recently.

• 22:25Haley Sacks?

  Okay, cool.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  His name is Giles.

• 22:27Haley Sacks?

  Giles.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Ripped.

• 22:29Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  He is a very, very handsome dude.

• 22:32Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  So I work out with him, um, right now, four times a week, I think, but I wanna go up a little bit.

• 22:37Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  So he's one, I have my estate manager who has been kinda by my side for a really long time. He's awesome.

• 22:45Haley Sacks?

  What does he do?

• 22:46Speaker 02

  He does all the different things in my life. So he spends a lot of time with like the car collection, cause he's also a car guy. That's like one of the things that he's spending a lot of time on. He also helps kind of with the day to day of things, right? So he travels with me pretty often. He's an old special forces guy.

• 23:04Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's really cool.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  So he's like a walking Swiss army knife.

• 23:08Haley Sacks?

  I love that.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  And he's, he's very like, you know, he, he won't, if you ask him, it's like, well, what was that like? When you were in the armed services, he'd be like.

• 23:16Haley Sacks?

  He'll never tell you.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  I'm like, oh shit.

• 23:18Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. He's seen some things.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  He's seen some things.

• 23:21Haley Sacks?

  Relaxing. He's like, oh my, this is retirement for me. I'm just hanging out with some cars.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Another person that we have that joined us recently is the car mechanic.

• 23:29Haley Sacks?

  Ooh.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  So I have a full-time guy whose job it is to fix and work on cars.

• 23:34Haley Sacks?

  That's major.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  And he's really good and I love having him in the mix.

• 23:38Haley Sacks?

  Okay. So we've got trainer, estate.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  We have some nannies.

• 23:42Haley Sacks?

  We have some nan, how many nannies do you guys have? Cause you've got three kids, you've got another on the way.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Three kids. My wife is pregnant. So yeah, we have, I think, three nannies.

• 23:49Haley Sacks?

  Three nannies. And then when, and then obviously when the baby comes, you'll have, you know, night nurse, all that stuff.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. That's important.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Four, four boys is a lot of boys.

• 23:57Haley Sacks?

  That's a lot of boys.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  That's a lot of boys.

• 23:59Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. How do you handle generational wealth with them? And like talking about money and like your success.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  I don't really know, to be totally honest. I think that there's a version of this that you can do where it's like. You want to try to recreate the childhood. I like, if I were to try to recreate the childhood I had for them, where you kind of like force these difficult circumstances on them.

• 24:25Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, you're like, you have to, you know.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, you can't actually have this.

• 24:29Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't think that's the right thing to do, to be totally honest. I think the most important thing you can do is just be.

• 24:35Haley Sacks?

  Sort of phony.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is sort of phony.

• 24:37Haley Sacks?

  It's like, why would you manufacture that?

• 24:39Speaker 02

  I think the, the bigger thing for them, and again, if they're listening someday, is like, just try to like, be super successful at whatever you want to do. And use the fact that you've had, you know, the resources in life to like, make that happen, right? Cause I mean, if I had had the resources that I have now, when I was a kid to, to, to pursue the life, like, yeah, I would have made the most of it, right? But then, so they should do the same, basically. And it's kind of interesting, right? Because it's like, what are they gonna do? Like in this world of AI and the way the world is changing, like, what kind of jobs are they gonna have? And I think the through line, that's like, the most important is whatever you do, just work super duper hard and try to be the best.

• 25:22Haley Sacks?

  So like, the business of being a billionaire, it's a lot of work, but you're making do. Where we have our nice structure. Do you feel like a lot of societal, do you feel a lot of pressure from yourself to like, have impact with your money? Like, explain that a little bit, because there's so many people who are like, there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire and you know, who are sort of, uh, have feelings about it.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:46Haley Sacks?

  I'm a capitalist, so like, I believe that like, it's amazing to be able to make a lot of money. And that, that's a, that's part of the American dream.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  It is. Well, let's zoom out a little bit and then zoom back in.

• 25:57Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  The zooming out thing is actually related to the idea of Robin Hood. And also related to a lot of like, my story as a human being. My family came to the US from India because my dad wanted to pursue higher education. He wanted to study physics. And it was like, very, very, it was never, ever lost on me that my parents left a life that they had. And a family they had behind to pursue this dream. So that was like this constant thought that like my parents made sacrifices to be a part of American society. And it was like, this is the place of upward economic mobility, which you can look at it as narrowly as like, this is a place that you can start businesses and make money.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  But if you look at it more broadly and kind of think about it where we are as a moment in time, like it is a place where you have the the ability to pursue your own self betterment.

• 26:52Haley Sacks?

  Love that.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  And that manifests in like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, right? Like these very basic ideas. This doesn't exist other places in the world.

• 27:03Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, no, that you literally went from broke in like New York City, a million people.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Years ago, yeah.

• 27:09Haley Sacks?

  Yes, and then in three years you were at the helm of a company worth billions of dollars like that's.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  That doesn't happen other places. That happens in America, though. And so I guess also what Robin Hood has done as a product, it has given millions of people access to the public markets and the ability to take whatever money that they've made and put it to work and pursue their own self betterment. Like, these are the most important ideas of our society and it is incredibly unique, this place in the world that we can, that we have these freedoms. So to the zoomed out version of this is capitalism is not a bad thing at all. I think it's actually freedom is in its purest form, to be able to do what you want and to be able to create a life for yourself.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  So I think it's super duper important and I think it's it's sad that we live in a time where that's called into question because I think it's like fundamentally a good thing. And I think all the alternatives to it have never worked out. And they fundamentally involve like abdicating a degree of individuality, right? Giving up some agency in life. As time goes by, as like my life goes on, the ability to be myself, the ability to do what I want and like express those ideas through my effort, hard work, all these things, like that's what matters to me. And I think these are really closely tied to the ideas of capitalism.

• 28:35Haley Sacks?

  Do you feel a responsibility to society to be an ethical billionaire? And how does that manifest for you?

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think the way it manifests for me, I think it's. Trying to put my resources, time and money to things that I think are important.

• 28:52Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Right. Well, for a lot of people, I think that's like a big, big, big focus on philanthropy. For me, the big focus is on like creating stuff. And that's what I'm doing professionally, right? So I'm trying to create another company that hopefully has a really meaningful impact on the world as a whole.

• 29:10Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  And like, not just thinking about myself as like a person that's got money, but as a person that can create things and that can use that know-how and those resources to like knock down bigger and more important problems. Right?

• 29:29Haley Sacks?

  I talk so much about, uh, obviously like money and how people build wealth and manage their money. And I think that like, you know, most people are just on a track where they're trying to get out of the red and like feel some sort of solvency, which is totally possible. I do believe that. But it does really come from systems. So like, what sort of systems do you have to keep an eye on your, on your finances? Because I can only imagine like that there's gotta be nefarious people who try to take advantage or try to sell you on weird deals, or you know what I mean? Like you have to have trusted advisors who help you understand how to allocate your capital.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:10Haley Sacks?

  Will you walk us through that a little bit?

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:11Haley Sacks?

  And also like, are there secret banks for billionaires? Like, do you have like Chase? I mean, you use Robinhood, but like, you know what I mean? Like, what sort of, what sort of cool things do you get access to?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So actually I did have a Chase bank account for a really long time, like during many of the early years. And I kind of just kept my money there.

• 30:29Haley Sacks?

  They're like, you're a really good customer.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was a very great customer for them.

• 30:33Haley Sacks?

  Well, you seem like you've always been really focused, like even what after Robinhood, you know, did so well. It's like you're, yes, you have a cool car to drive to the office, but you're still driving to the office.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, every day.

• 30:44Haley Sacks?

  Like, it's just about doing the work. But like, do you have financial advisors? How much do you keep an eye on what's happening? Because there's so many stories of people who, when they don't keep an eye on things, like that. That happened to Rihanna.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:58Haley Sacks?

  Did you know the Rihanna song?

• 30:59Speaker 02

  No, I don't.

• 30:59Haley Sacks?

  Bitch better have my money. Bitch better have my money.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  No, tell me. What happened to her?

• 31:04Haley Sacks?

  She was like so big in she, you know, she was doing her Ponder Replay Tour, like had totally blown up. She was with Jay-Z's record company and they gave her accountants. They were like, okay, like here's the people who will manage your money, whatever. And so she blindly trusted them and just focused on the work. You know, was like, okay, I'm gonna make my music. I'm gonna dance. I'm gonna interact with my fans. Like they've got that. And then she had done a worldwide tour, like been working every night grinding. And she came back and was like, I want to buy a house and she couldn't afford a house. And so she was like, what's going on with my money?

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 31:41Haley Sacks?

  And realized that they had been like taking exorbitant fees, like totally messing up her taxes, like just had completely screwed her financially. And so she obviously got rid of them, has since become a billionaire with Fenty, wrote the song Bitch Better Have My Money. But I think it's such a good example of like the importance of having a money date. And so I wonder sort of how you make sure that you don't have those people in your life. Or like who, how do you know that you can trust people? What's the system for you? Like walk us through it.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  I've got a family office.

• 32:08Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  They manage most of my money. They're very responsible. They.

• 32:13Haley Sacks?

  And what is a family office?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  It's, it's like a financial firm that you hire that manages your money and then kind of help with your day to day in life.

• 32:21Haley Sacks?

  So and they basically, they take your money and they invest it. And it's almost like its own hedge fund or something.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, they invest the money. They, sometimes they invest in other companies and they bring like deals and stuff forward to me.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  They also actually help with a lot of other stuff in life too. So they like kind of help with hiring people and like managing.

• 32:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Our, we don't have a huge number of people work for us. We have a handful of people. They kind of help manage that. I now.

• 32:49Haley Sacks?

  Like payroll, things like that.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:51Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  We actually have, we have another company now that does payroll for them and stuff too. I also have a person that's a like chief legal officer of my family office.

• 33:00Haley Sacks?

  Smart. That's always the first hire.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:03Haley Sacks?

  You're a good lawyer.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  This is like one thing that I've learned over the years is like having really, really, really good lawyers that you trust. Is like a critical thing in life, especially as a successful person.

• 33:14Haley Sacks?

  Okay, but like, because so much of what we do is just like helping people with their finances. So like, I feel like it's cool that you've created something where it is, uh, it's in the background. And I always think about that with money too, where it's like, you don't have to be someone who's obsessed with finances to have a good relationship to your money. You just have to have good systems and good people to help you.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  You have to be fundamentally curious about it. I think this is one thing that, so talking a little bit about this specifically, right? Like, this was kind, this was a, one of the thoughts behind creating Ramen Hood. Cause we started, the idea for it came with a backdrop of Occupy Wall Street and all that stuff.

• 33:52Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Where, again, kind of relating back to like the importance of capitalism. That was another period in time where a generation of young people looked at the financial system. And they were like, this thing is broken. This doesn't work. We've got to tear it down because it's just so broken. And at that point in time, we're like, what the, like, what the heck is going on here? Right? Because again, our families both came to this country to pursue a better life. And there is a sense of like, there's another way, which is like, if more people care about their own finances and the way the financial system works, then more people will have a shared interest in the whole system succeeding.

• 34:36Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Which I think is way better than people looking at this, the sort of system and the constructs of capitalism being like, that's broken. Instead, you can be a part of it. And if you think it's, you know, really creating this much wealth inequality, like, why not have more people be a part of the thing?

• 34:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, because obviously we all know how you grow wealth is investing. You can't.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to save your money.

• 35:00Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, you can't earn your.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Spend it all when you get it.

• 35:03Haley Sacks?

  And you can't save your way to wealth either. You have to make sure that it's in the market. It doesn't matter where you're at in your financial journey. Like, that is just how it goes.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  I think this was like, probably the. Arguably, the biggest breakthrough that Robin Hood created is it was built for an audience of young people, right? It was built for an audience of people that for generations before had been like, wait till you're like plus or minus five to 10 years from retirement and then think about saving your money. But if you kind of think about that, what that created was a generation of young people that were apathetic about this. And like following the 2008 collapse and during that time, if you ask young people about their money, it was almost a point of pride to like not know what you were doing.

• 35:52Haley Sacks?

  But that nihilism still exists. So what do you-

• 35:55Speaker 02

  It has come back, I think.

• 35:56Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, with vengeance. And I said a lot in my work too, where it's like, that's why I wrote Future Rich Person, because it's, and the subtitle of Future Rich Person is the new rules for building wealth, even if you're stuck, broke, and that billionaire won't text you back because it's like, even if like you feel just like the system is totally out to get you. And like, there is just no, why even try? Because you're already so far gone. What do you say to that?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  I think we all have the ability within ourselves to pursue the life we want. And it doesn't matter where you start out, like you have, we all have agency. We all have the ability to do stuff, right?

• 36:33Haley Sacks?

  Free will.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Free will. I feel like I've lived that in my life. But to kind of bookend this point a little bit, like the, the importance of like having curiosity about your finances, of how the system works, like being genuinely knowledgeable about it and like pursuing an understanding of this even at a young age, it's going to like make you not clueless as you go through life.

• 36:58Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, totally.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  And-

• 37:00Haley Sacks?

  But are you like, do you look at your credit card statements? Like, what does that look like for you? Like, what is, how, how do you keep an eye on things?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  I have, like, I'm at the point now where I don't have to think about it that much. And to me, that is like one of the biggest luxuries.

• 37:13Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Is I can kind of keep track of the thing I'm spending, things I'm spending money on in my head. And I've achieved a point in my life where I don't have to like go through

• 37:22Haley Sacks?

  Everything.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Line by line. Lord knows I had to do that for many, many years of my life. But I think the important thing is, is like at a pretty young age in life, you need to be financially savvy. You need to be curious about it. You need to be learning about it and like not putting it on the back burner. Because money compounds over time if you're smart about it.

• 37:43Haley Sacks?

  Totally.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  If you approach the system as one where you may not be at the place that you want to be. But like the tools and the opportunities are out there. You just have to like keep banging on the right doors. You have to keep trying at whatever your ideas are. And you'll get somewhere, right? And if you get to that next step, that's not completely broke. Now you have the opportunity to be slightly less broke. And you can keep building and building from that. And I think it's actually, I think it's like not great that there's a lot of voices in society that sort of reinforce that nihilism that you're talking about.

• 38:18Haley Sacks?

  I don't, I don't, don't worry. You're in a safe space. I'm like, I'm like, there is so much opportunity. Like I so believe, and I.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Like where does that go?

• 38:25Haley Sacks?

  No, babe, you don't understand. There's like the coolest, like the influencers that all the girlies love, like the ones who, you know, are at all the cool parties and whatever. They will, people will, they'll do an AMA and people will be like, you know, young girls who look up to them, what do you do with your money? And they'll be like, to be honest, the world is so screwed. So I just spend the money on shoes. And I literally like, you have no idea how it makes me feel because it's like, what are you talking about? First of all, for women, it's so important for us to have financial mobility and financial independence. But also like, why is that a cool perspective? Why is that something that you would want to like own and celebrate? Like it's so, I don't know. I'm all about growth mindset and trying to find those opportunities.

• 39:11Speaker 05

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• 39:43Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 40:08Haley Sacks?

  So your new company, tell us about it. It's going to take the energy from space and we're sort of like solar panels, but in space.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 40:17Haley Sacks?

  Like a little.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  So the idea behind this was kind of zoom out and then zoom in. The zoomed out idea was like, actually, there's this new platform, which is access to space.

• 40:29Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  And in that new platform, what are the industries, like the human industries that exist in space? Well, you've got earth imaging, like picking pictures of the earth.

• 40:40Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  You've got defense stuff.

• 40:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, Starlink, which.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  You've got internet communications, like Starlink.

• 40:46Haley Sacks?

  I love me some Starlink.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Starlink is amazing.

• 40:49Haley Sacks?

  I know, on a plane, ooh, that really does the trip so fast. You do FaceTime.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  I did that yesterday, actually.

• 40:55Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Flying in.

• 40:56Haley Sacks?

  Peugeot Air?

• 40:57Speaker 02

  No, not Peugeot Air.

• 40:59Haley Sacks?

  No, Peugeot, okay.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  I wish. No, it's internet connection, like defense stuff, earth imaging.

• 41:07Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 41:09Haley Sacks?

  You need energy.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  What else we got?

• 41:10Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Right? Like, when I look at low Earth orbit and kind of space as a platform, the distinct feeling is that there's going to be other commercial industries that exist here that haven't really been developed yet. Now, why am I talking about it like this as like a platform in different verticals of the economy? There's a very similar thought to the early days of Robin Hood, where mobile and using mobile is this new platform. And when we got to it, if you kind of look at the different industries that existed on mobile, it was like maps.

• 41:42Haley Sacks?

  Search.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Search, photo sharing.

• 41:45Haley Sacks?

  Chat rooms.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Communications. And we kind of had this idea that finance was going to live on mobile and that there was going to be a native financial platform that was going to be on there. The reason I think this is interesting is like, I wanted to pursue something where there was a lot of white space, where there wasn't a lot of existing commercial activity, because there's an opportunity to build something.

• 42:06Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that's your favorite.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so with space, the idea was two things. Number one, we need to create more commercial opportunities in space. Because again, this idea of capitalism is pretty central to my worldview.

• 42:19Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  And if you have more ways for people to make money in space,

• 42:23Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  the whole industry will evolve quicker. Two, that you can't have a thriving economy without energy.

• 42:31Haley Sacks?

  That's true.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Like, that is one of the, you know, it's like one of the building blocks of commerce. And the idea behind the company in the beginning was how do we build an energy company in space? Like, a power grid in space? And there's a lot of reasons why, but like, one of the very cool reasons is if you look at the different ways to make energy on Earth, solar panels are actually one of, if not the cheapest ways.

• 42:57Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  It's dirt cheap to create electricity with solar panels. The problem, and it's gotten so cheap in the last.

• 43:03Haley Sacks?

  And it's a good industry. I once dated a guy who sold solar panels.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 43:07Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. And he would need so much money. He would just literally go like door to door and was like, he had no credit. It was like a different, that was a really weird relationship, but he had no credit. But he was, yeah, well, he grew up in a home that like, they didn't believe in, like his parents. You know, if your parents don't. Understand things and you get scared and

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Can I tell you something?

• 43:28Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  I didn't have a credit card for the longest time.

• 43:31Haley Sacks?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, similar thing.

• 43:32Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, also because first generation, it's so hard for a parent.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, my parents were like no credit cards.

• 43:37Haley Sacks?

  That sketchy, don't do that, cash debit and you probably, yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  I think I actually got my first credit card like over COVID.

• 43:45Haley Sacks?

  No way, that, that recently?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:48Haley Sacks?

  No way. And now how many do you have?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Two.

• 43:51Haley Sacks?

  Two.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Well, I've got the Robinhood card.

• 43:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, it's a good one.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Clearly.

• 43:55Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Clearly, that's the one that I use.

• 43:58Haley Sacks?

  Well, man, that's so crazy. It took you till 2020 to get a credit card.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went, I remember I went to go get credit.

• 44:03Haley Sacks?

  So you're fully a billionaire using a debit card?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:06Haley Sacks?

  I'm dead.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  I remember.

• 44:08Haley Sacks?

  Who like pushed you over the edge?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Well, I got, I hired some financial managers who are like,

• 44:12Haley Sacks?

  What are you doing?

• 44:13Speaker 02

  What the fuck are you doing, Baiju?

• 44:15Haley Sacks?

  That's crazy.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  And I remember I actually went to go and apply for the credit card and they like pull up my credit score. And they're like, I think it was like zero.

• 44:23Haley Sacks?

  No, because you had never built anything.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they were like, and I was like, uh oh. I was like, no, I promise you.

• 44:29Haley Sacks?

  I'm good for it.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  I'm good for it.

• 44:31Haley Sacks?

  Yes. Do you leverage a lot of debt in your personal life? Like I do a lot of stories around that because people got really scared about debt and they're like,

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 44:40Haley Sacks?

  You don't do any.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  I'm still that kid. I'm still like him.

• 44:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah. I honestly am sort of like, maybe you should follow me. Like we can learn about credits.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Probably should.

• 44:47Haley Sacks?

  We can learn about leveraging debt, like by borrowing at a lower interest rate than you could earn.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  I'm a simple man. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a man that pursues his ideas and tries to make.

• 44:57Haley Sacks?

  I'm doing space. I'm doing kids. I'm doing guiles. I'm doing cars. I'm doing wife.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  I'm good.

• 45:03Haley Sacks?

  That's it. Yes, that's it. You keep it simple.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  I do, yeah.

• 45:07Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Like seriously, no credit card for the longest time.

• 45:09Haley Sacks?

  That is so crazy. And so with your kids, are you gonna like teach them about, like, are you gonna get them credit cards and things like that?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Like, you haven't even thought about that yet. They're still little guys.

• 45:19Haley Sacks?

  We need to tease it out a little.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  My, my eldest is six. He's still a little guy.

• 45:23Haley Sacks?

  Okay, but he must be like trying to buy things on Roblox or whatever it is that they're doing. I feel like there's so many games that they can play that they want to have their credit card for.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I actually haven't really talked to him that much about money yet. I probably, I need to. Yeah, I mean, this is like a part of being a dad where I'm like, I find myself becoming my parents.

• 45:41Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  I'm like, just don't grow up.

• 45:43Haley Sacks?

  Oh.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  It's like be the sweet innocent who you are.

• 45:46Haley Sacks?

  You don't want it, you don't want to burst the bubble.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  No, not yet.

• 45:49Haley Sacks?

  No.

• 45:51Haley Sacks?

  What has been something that's actually been really hard about your success? Like, I know you talked a little bit about safety. Do you think that's the hardest thing?

• 45:59Speaker 02

  I mean, I think it's hard to keep friends.

• 46:01Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  I think the nature of friendship changes a lot.

• 46:05Haley Sacks?

  Do you feel like there's an expectation for you to be like, taking care of them or paying for, like, what is hard about it? Or like, they don't relate to where you're at?

• 46:13Speaker 02

  One of the things that I get pretty often in context is like, oh, wow. Like, you know, you're like kind of a normal person still. Like, what the hell did you expect?

• 46:22Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Right? It's like, what? People treat you a little differently when you've been successful. Or they, they imagine you're living your life in some like very, very different way.

• 46:31Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Where I'm trying my hardest to live my life like a normal person. Because, and this is not some like virtue signaling thing, but there was a way that I approached the world when I was not a successful quote unquote person, where I approached it with a level of humility and curiosity, right? Like, I didn't think I was the best at stuff, but I did think that if I tried really hard, I could be the best at it.

• 46:58Haley Sacks?

  I love that.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 46:59Haley Sacks?

  Totally.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  And so I kind of am in the journey of creating something new again. And so there's a question there, like, do you approach it like a successful person? Or do you approach it like the person that built the thing the last time? And I'm kind of trying to approach it like the person that built the last time.

• 47:17Haley Sacks?

  Beginner's mindset.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, no, I think that's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

• 47:21Haley Sacks?

  Do you feel like it's important to have like that community of people who sort of understand? Like, do you rely on them for, I always call it like my financial besties?

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:29Haley Sacks?

  Like, or business besties too, where it's like just people who are also, you know, running businesses or in a similar financial position. It's just so nice to be able to like candidly talk to them about these things.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I think in many ways, you are as good in your life as the people you surround yourself with.

• 47:44Haley Sacks?

  Hundred percent.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  So I think actually, like, this has kind of been the cool thing. There was a period of time during the COVID era where I feel like a lot of successful people, collectively, were like, we're done.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Because we were all stuck at home.

• 48:00Haley Sacks?

  And you're just like, I'm getting a credit card.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  I'm getting a credit card. We're all stuck at home. It felt like the world was changing. There was like a real venom in society some ways towards people that were successful. Where I, and you know, I'm not speaking about any like sort of broad sentiment was like, I think people were a little bit less ambitious, like during and shortly after the COVID era, where the, there's been a complete vibe shift in like the last two years where successful people are going for it.

• 48:33Haley Sacks?

  So now you're like, damn, all my homies are out here grinding once again.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Once again.

• 48:37Haley Sacks?

  We are all building from the bottom once again.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And I love it.

• 48:42Haley Sacks?

  You do.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  I love it. And I think it's just such a better way to live your life. Like, we're not, we're not dead yet. We got, we got stuff to do.

• 48:48Haley Sacks?

  So the dream was never to, like, I feel like for so many people, the dream is just to get money and get off the grid. That's not the dream.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Live that dream. See what that feels like. It gets real boring, real fast.

• 48:59Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. Thank you so much, Beju, for being here, for spilling your financial tea.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  I did.

• 49:04Haley Sacks?

  You really did.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  I didn't spill any coffee, though.

• 49:06Haley Sacks?

  You didn't spill any coffee, but you did give us some really good insights. And I think that you're probably gonna see us going to space soon, me and you. We're gonna go there together.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:18Haley Sacks?

  Thank you. Stay rich.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.