I Confronted The Governor Of Michigan | Financial Audit

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Caleb Hammer?

  Ladies and gentlemen, special episode today with the governor of Michigan. I'm going to be auditing the state's finances, but quick little introduction to say, hey, this is the day before election day across the country. Make sure you take advantage of your right to vote. Get out there, vote. That's a state and local elections, and I think one federal election for a special congressional run here in Texas. Just make sure you get out there and vote. Enjoy the episode.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  You gotta use tariffs like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

• 1:25Caleb Hammer?

  That's a political talking point. I've never heard one of those in person. That's wild. Food stamps, let's just say, or food assistance. Have we set up our systems in a way? We're also just discouraging people from going out there and being contributors. You know, this is the part of the show where I usually go through the spending, and it's like, we got some bullshitting in there. We got some fucking taquitos.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Taquitos?

• 1:44Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, you're stopping in the gas station, get yourself some bull.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  Fuck off.

• 1:48Caleb Hammer?

  Political extremism. It's scary. What do you think is going on with political extremism right now? And how would you solve it?

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Your blood got thin moving down south, didn't it?

• 1:57Caleb Hammer?

  Sign up for the new and improved Dollar Wise budgeting app. Take the free trial, and if you like it, sign up for the annual version to save a ton of money and get my budget-friendly cookbook signed by me and mailed directly to you. And for a limited time only, if you want to bundle all of my educational programs together with the Budget App, join Dollar Wise Central and save 80%. Take the trial and learn more at dollarwise.com.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Gretchen Whitmer. I'm the governor of Michigan and this is Financial Audit.

• 2:24Caleb Hammer?

  This is crazy.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:27Caleb Hammer?

  This is just so weird. The governor of my home state and we're doing an audit on the home state and talking some more things. This is crazy.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  I know. I'm so glad to be with you. I appreciate all the, all the things you do.

• 2:42Caleb Hammer?

  Really?

• 2:42Speaker 03

  I mean, right now. We'll see how I feel in 60 minutes.

• 2:45Caleb Hammer?

  You know, people, people on the left call me a fascist. So you saying that as a Democratic governor who's gonna be the Democratic nominee for president at some point, definitely, definitely not running though.

• 2:56Speaker 03

  Anyway.

• 2:57Caleb Hammer?

  It's really good to hear that I'm not a fascist anymore.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Listen, you know what? Everyone's got opinions right now. I'm not gonna pay attention to any of that.

• 3:08Caleb Hammer?

  No, money's super important.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  I'm glad for what you do. I think what you do is important.

• 3:11Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, well, thank you. I really do appreciate that. And you know, and when it comes to actually like extremism and divisiveness, I would love to hear your opinion on that, you know, towards the end. But, you know, I'd love to start with kind of Michigan finances in general, just kind of what the state looks like, and then do some Michigan policies and then some national ones. Cause you know, at some point, national might be involved in this conversation with you.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 3:35Caleb Hammer?

  We'll see. I want to start though. So Michigan, 10th most populous state, pretty big economy. You know, it is a major state. It's an important state in the world of politics. You know, it's gone Trump twice and anti-Trump once, right?

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:49Caleb Hammer?

  For, it went Biden. So you know, it's, it's very important. We were discussing beforehand, you don't like the term Rust Belt, because it feels like it's done. But you know, that's a very important, like mega region in the United States. You know, the Midwest, it's the most populous megalopolis. So it's, it's very important. And kind of how states are doing there. And how they're running their economies, how their economies are doing, how the state governments are overall working, I think, kind of sets a precedent for how many other states around the country do.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:18Caleb Hammer?

  So, I want to know first, we'll get into some of the numbers, but when you look at the state budget, when you sign a budget into law, when you advocate for certain things, what are some of the primary things you're thinking of when it comes to revenue collection? When it comes to where we're distributing revenue? What are key priorities for you? What are we hyper-focused on?

• 4:37Speaker 03

  So, when we think about making sure that anyone can come to Michigan and build the life they want, that's really the North Star. That is who we are. You know, people came to Michigan from around the world for a job in the auto industry.

• 4:50Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I left.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Decades ago. I know. Well, it's time for you to come home.

• 4:53Caleb Hammer?

  Well, it's a little cold.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  But, oh, you got weak, huh?

• 4:56Caleb Hammer?

  I did.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  Anyway.

• 4:58Caleb Hammer?

  Sorry, continue.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  You know, people came from around the world to Michigan to get into the middle class. You could get a job on the line. You didn't even have to go to any schooling beyond high school, and you could get in the middle class for a second, home up north on the lake. I mean, it was a great quality of life. It's why we've got such rich diversity. It's why we've been the center of manufacturing for a long time, and that's a great strength. But we know manufacturing is changing, right? The whole world is changing rapidly. And so, as we think about making sure that Michigan stays competitive, so that we've got the resources to invest in our people, making sure that we've got the skill sets that are necessary for advanced manufacturing jobs, jobs of the future, making sure that we're investing in places so that there are cool places for people to live, and that

• 5:45Speaker 03

  we're landing projects. You know, it's a competitive world. We have to out-compete other states. We have to out-compete other countries to get big investment that leads to good-paying jobs. And right now, you know, I think we've done a lot of good things in Michigan. It's tenuous with the tariff chaos that we're all navigating.

• 6:02Speaker 04

  This week, ushers in another new era of Trump tariffs. World leaders are trying to figure out how to respond to President Trump's attempt to reshape the global economy.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Columbus, Michigan, of four farmers feeding the state, but this year, there's a new stressor.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  Tariffs.

• 6:15Speaker 06

  Tariffs. These tariffs are starting to take a bite.

• 6:18Speaker 07

  China slapped new tariffs on many items.

• 6:20Speaker 08

  Toys, furniture, smartphones, just about everything you can think of that comes from another country, you're gonna end up paying more for it.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  We feel it, more hard, you know, more difficult in Michigan because of agriculture and advanced manufacturing, specifically autos, we're more sensitive to the tariff nonsense. And so I think that's a major concern on my mind right now.

• 6:40Caleb Hammer?

  And I do have a question about the tariff. I mean, we can, well, actually, I'll jump into that. That kind of goes into the Michigan politics, you know, side of things. When it came to NAFTA, it projected we lost manufacturing jobs in Michigan of about 44,000 by 2010, 112,000 by 2018, with even expanding into more Chinese trade. And Michigan lost, you know, potentially upwards of 231,000 jobs since NAFTA was enacted. Manufacturing jobs losing about 21.3%. Now, Trump's trade wars or deals that he's trying to do, you know, they tend to be more nationalistic. They tend to be more protective. If Michigan specifically

• 7:24Caleb Hammer?

  has lost 21%, you know, I do tend to like a good mixture of globalism and then some, you know, patriotism, nationalistic, you know, I think there's a good hybrid to be done. But in general, the political left does tend to be more globalistic right now, stereotypically, right, oversimplifying. And the right tends to be more nationalistic. Wouldn't you of the Rust Belt, sorry, state of Michigan that lost 21% in those sectors be more in favor of something that's a bit more protectionist?

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Well, yes and no. You gotta be really smart, right? You gotta use tariffs like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. It's not the answer to everything.

• 8:01Caleb Hammer?

  That's a political talking point. I've never heard one of those in person. That's wild. That's wild.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  But it's true. I mean, you gotta be really thoughtful about it. Tariffs have their place, for sure. We've always had, you know, some sort of a tariff scheme because we can compete, we can out-compete anyone on a level playing field. But there are a lot of countries that aren't playing on a level. Yes, we can, absolutely.

• 8:20Caleb Hammer?

  On level? For price? Our price of labor is substantially more expensive in the United States.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  When you look at quality, when you look at efficiency, yes, we can. But we gotta have a level playing field. And because of so many decisions that have made over many decades, we know that our North American auto industry relies on parts that are going back and forth over the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit to Windsor, Canada. Seven, eight times a day for, for parts. I mean, this trade is really important. We've built it in. Trump negotiated the USMCA, or whatever you want to call it, depending which country you're in, they all call it something different.

• 8:59Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, sure.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Because they want their own country to start first. I totally, wholeheartedly want us to onshore and bring as much manufacturing to the shores of the United States. By the same token, I'm very sober about who our allies are and who's really been a part of our, our growth and what we've required manufacturing to rely on. You can't set up a plant overnight. It takes years. These companies make decades, investments, decades on the front end. And so it's, manufacturing is just different than almost any other type of commerce that we have. And that's why it, it needs to be used as a scalpel, not a, not a sledgehammer.

• 9:36Caleb Hammer?

  You know, that, that certainly makes sense from the perspective of, you know, whatever political party we're leaning from and everything like that. I will say, I just want to start out of the gate for my audience, even though people on like the far left call me a fascist and stuff. I, we were even talking about this before. Like, I took, out of just pure curiosity, when people were putting me in political camps, a political test like a week ago, and I'm aggressively, boringly, but obnoxiously centrist. Like, that fence, that fence is going right through my, going out my mouth. It is brutal. I apologize, Governor.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  That's a visual. Thank you.

• 10:09Caleb Hammer?

  It is. But I'm an obnoxious fence sitter. You know, one of the more controversial, not controversial things, but, because you talked about, you know, a plant doesn't get set up overnight, right?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Yep. You've done a lot of research. You've got a lot there.

• 10:23Caleb Hammer?

  Well, you know, this is exciting. You know, a part of the spending that kind of comes out of the state could be more incentive type spending, but we're talking like the Blue Oval Battery Park. That incentive package was cut from 1.03 billion to 409 million dollars, you know? And if we're thinking about plants being set up overnight, you know, this is one of the more controversial things that was done from the state government perspective. And that was projected jobs from 2,500 down to 1,700. And then the state pulled a separate 100 million dollar grant tied to lighting reductions there. And then there is the Make It In Michigan, you know, billion dollars on five EV battery-related

• 11:07Caleb Hammer?

  projects pledged there. You know, where we're choosing to put...

• 11:13Caleb Hammer?

  The money that obviously other people are making and whatnot. And then we're kind of reducing some of the incentive packages we're doing to certain plants. And like you said, it's not an overnight thing when they get in there, you know, what is your thoughts on that in terms of where we're putting the money to help businesses actually relocate to other states, especially when we're kind of slashing and then saying, no, it's going to go into five EV battery plants. You know, I'd love to hear your perspective.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  I think when you talk about autos, you know, there's no question that the technology is changing and evolving and we're getting smarter, we're getting cleaner. That's a good thing, right? And under the Biden administration, they had a lot of incentives and they, we saw a huge amount of investment that was being contemplated or begun in this country during the Biden administration. Now with the Trump administration, a lot of things are getting pulled back and businesses nervous, right? You know, as well as I know, when there is an uncertain, you know, strategy, when the rules keep changing, what happens in uncertainty? It's paralysis, right? You stop spending, you pull back, you wait to see is the dust going to settle and we're going to make these billions of dollars of

• 12:20Speaker 03

  investments. And so one of the things we know, though, as, as more electric vehicles come online, as we build up the grid and support people being able to travel with an electric vehicle, where the batteries are built is going to be the center of gravity. They're because they're going to be the heaviest component in the car. And so battery plants are really important to Michigan as we think about the, the long-term dominance in, in mobility. We are currently the home of R and D for almost every auto company on the planet.

• 12:55Caleb Hammer?

  Michigan loves them cars.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, but we've got to also be able to be the place where they can build batteries. They got the expertise and the, the concentration of, of assets in Michigan. And that's why, you know, really getting aggressive around that space has been important for us.

• 13:10Caleb Hammer?

  Which, I mean, I can certainly vibe with, but you know, as like the CEO of the state, right? And we're thinking about what CEOs are doing right now. 87% of CEOs in Michigan expect a weaker overall state economy looking over the next decade.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, there's no question that when you look at right now, what's happening, there are a lot of very, you know, troubling, troubling signs about what's happening in the economy. And I think a lot of it stems from the unpredictability of the tariffs, the tariff network and policies right now coming out of DC. I just, it's challenging and I've been, I have been advocating with the president, with his cabinet, with folks in Washington DC. I mean, I go no matter who's in office because my job is-

• 13:52Caleb Hammer?

  Well, you hit your face.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  Well, I wasn't there for that particular press conference, but-

• 13:59Caleb Hammer?

  That was very funny. That was very funny, wasn't it? I mean, come on, that was-

• 14:02Speaker 03

  Yes, I can laugh at it now.

• 14:03Caleb Hammer?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  But, you know, my job is, I'm the governor of Michigan. I gotta show up and fight for the people of Michigan and the Michigan economy. And that's really what I'm doing when I'm trying to set the table, when I'm trying to make sure that our people have skills and that you understand, you know, how to have personal finance, you know, passing a law so that we're, we are arming our people with information so they can make good choices and make, build the lives that they want. All of these things are related.

• 14:33Caleb Hammer?

  And I am very excited to talk about that one because that is something I've advocated for, for these past three years. But I do want to talk about, again, the state of Michigan first. Sorry, I get distracted into rabbit holes way too easily. So, outstanding debt for the state of Michigan, $6.925 billion by the end of last year. Now, we're looking at 2024's financials, because I believe 2024 to 2025 financials for the state of Michigan just closed out this month or last month, if I'm not mistaken. However, good news, that debt went down $300 million, or 4.2% year over year. Geo-bonded debt, $691.2 million. But then, you know, the vast majority of that 6.9% is revenue dedicated from transportation

• 15:18Caleb Hammer?

  and state building authority. Then, the government itself does have lease commitments of $729.4 million in general. Then, there is M.D. capital commitments, year-end, $3.3 billion. How do you feel about the debt of the state of Michigan? I mean, 4.2% paid off year over year. You know, if you were a guest on the show- You know, I wouldn't be screaming too much at that. That's, that's pretty okay. You know, that's pretty chill. That's progress.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  We've paid off a lot of debt and, and I'm proud of that. I think that that's really important. Um, one of the things that states can't do, like the federal government does, is run deficits, right? Borrow money. Like, we, we can't do that. We've got to have a balanced budget. I have had a balanced bipartisan budget every year that I've been governor. I've been to Wall Street to meet with rating agencies. We secured an upgrade in our, our bond rating.

• 16:06Caleb Hammer?

  AAA, right?

• 16:07Speaker 03

  These are, but, double A, I think, right now. But, you know, that, that was an upgrade from where we were. And so I think it's important to have our fiscal house in order. It, it impacts everything that we're trying to do. So, we, we take that very seriously. It's not sexy to most, but I'm glad that you find it exciting.

• 16:24Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, it's, yeah. No, I'm gooning over here. It's, do you know what gooning is?

• 16:28Speaker 03

  You know what? I actually, um, was just hearing about gooning.

• 16:32Caleb Hammer?

  Really? From who?

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Where?

• 16:34Caleb Hammer?

  The lieutenant governor?

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Whoa, um.

• 16:37Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know. Is that a controversial thing?

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Where was it? I was, I don't know. I had something on television?

• 16:43Caleb Hammer?

  They're talking about gooning on TV.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  You were talking to a guy.

• 16:47Caleb Hammer?

  This is goon central.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  You were talking to a guy who was spending his money on spicy media.

• 16:52Caleb Hammer?

  But you withdrew, what is this adding up to? About 700, would you say? $700 in cash? That's a lot.

• 17:00Speaker 09

  I can't think of anything.

• 17:02Caleb Hammer?

  Not strippers?

• 17:03Speaker 09

  No.

• 17:03Caleb Hammer?

  No, he doesn't do that.

• 17:05Speaker 09

  No, I just stay at home all day. Really.

• 17:07Caleb Hammer?

  He really doesn't go anywhere. It's expensive gooning. It's the smoking gooning. Now, if I saw that in the government, the government's books, some only purchases, I'd be a little concerned. They're not there, are they, as we go through here?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Is that what you were talking about when you were saying he was gooning, right?

• 17:20Caleb Hammer?

  Probably. Yeah, he probably had that OF.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  So, so educate your listeners who are not as cool as you. Gooning.

• 17:29Caleb Hammer?

  Endless, permanent, never finishes.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  I appreciate you educating us.

• 17:36Caleb Hammer?

  Press secretary, I apologize. I keep seeing her there. I'm judging on her facial reactions.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  I was just hearing about it. Yes, it was your show. Thank you for educating me, Caleb.

• 17:45Caleb Hammer?

  One thing that is a slight concern, though, there is the, if we look at the overall, the net position of the state of Michigan, it is still negative $1.3 billion. Now, that's like assets owned and then commitments that is required spending. So, yes, we're running a surplus, or at least we're, you know, breaking even. But overall, in general, we are still in a negative net position. So, negative net worth essentially for translating from someone's household to the government of Michigan. How do we feel about that? Let's talk about student loans. I know it's something we all avoid talking about, but if your private student loans are crushing you, Y Refi might be exactly what you need. They don't rely on your credit score alone.

• 18:30Caleb Hammer?

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• 19:13Caleb Hammer?

  Y Refi wants to help you climb out of debt, not push you further into it. Check them out at yrefy.com/hammer. That is Y-R-E-F-Y.com/hammer. Or call 888-973-3978. That is 888-973-3978. Break free from the high interest trap and get your finances under control once and for all.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Well, it's, I'm not, I don't love it. I don't love the fact that we've built a budget based on some expectations from the federal government that, right now, with the shutdown, we don't know what is going to happen and what's not going to happen. We've got a lot of folks who get food benefits from the feds that the money's not coming in. So, I mean, this is, I think, a really lousy position to be in. What we can control, we try to make sure that we get our budgets done on time and that they're balanced, but there are a lot of things that we can't control, and so we've got to have enough flexibility to make decisions along the way in our budgets.

• 20:11Caleb Hammer?

  And when it comes to spending, Health and Human Services is $35.57 billion, or 44% of the spending in the state of Michigan. If we're talking food stamps, let's just say, or food assistance. You know, I was, I used to be, I mean, I still am, I want people to have assistance who need assistance, especially those that fall back. It's a safety now, right?

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 20:32Caleb Hammer?

  Safety. I've had so many people on this show now, and I know we get the worst of the worst, it is, not you, I'm sorry. Like, your personal finances are probably okay?

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're in pretty good shape.

• 20:42Caleb Hammer?

  Nice. Okay, so, but I've had so many people on this show where they are specifically choosing to not go work more hours because then they'll be taken off benefits. And I'm wondering, even though I want to support people who fall on hard times, obviously, because they're human beings.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 20:58Caleb Hammer?

  Have we set up our systems in a way, let's say, the state of Michigan, where we're also just discouraging people from going out there and being contributors?

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Yep. Well, that, that is an obscene and, I think, rare example of where the system is not perfect, right? That we want people, we want to incentivize work. We want people to be gainfully employed and not reliant on state funding. But we recognize that there are a lot of people who, right now, are struggling to just take care of their daily needs, their family's needs. So, that's why this is important. I understand that you've had people suggest that you could move to Michigan and get some benefits that you can't get elsewhere. That's just not true. And I wanted to go out of my way to address that.

• 21:39Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, I've never heard that.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 21:40Caleb Hammer?

  Wow, okay.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  Because, you know, we're all playing by the same federal Rules.

• 21:45Caleb Hammer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  And so every state should be the same on those fronts. But, you know, we have different interpretations, different applications. Some of us make it easier to apply, et cetera, but I think that that's something worth, um, worth highlighting.

• 21:59Caleb Hammer?

  Now, my big concern when I look through the finances of the state of Michigan is the funding ratio.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:03Caleb Hammer?

  For the pension.

• 22:04Speaker 10

  Michigan's next budget is on Governor Gretchen Whitmer's desk.

• 22:07Speaker 11

  And a primary focus of the budget, as it always is, is public education.

• 22:11Speaker 10

  The move in the lame duck session is aimed at bringing greater financial stability to troubled districts.

• 22:16Speaker 12

  This is much less than the last fiscal year.

• 22:19Speaker 13

  We're talking about an unfunded liability of about $27 billion, but a good chunk of that doesn't make it to the classroom.

• 22:24Speaker 12

  The state ranks 44th in the nation when it comes to starting pay. The average starting salary for Michigan teachers was $41,645. That's around $4,800 less than the national average.

• 22:39Speaker 14

  There's not a lot of economic incentive to pursue a career in teaching.

• 22:42Speaker 12

  The budgeting could result in layoffs in the upcoming year.

• 22:47Caleb Hammer?

  We're talking 74.83% is adequately funded for what is needed to fund for the entire state pension. I, I would love to hear your perspective on this. Now, I, I will give a W. Uh, that's gone up from 66.3% last year to 74% this year, but that is still very far away from mandatory that needs to be handed out. And honestly, the gain has only been caught up, uh, through market recovery.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, we've got a state treasurer, Rachel Eubanks, who I think does a fantastic job. We've get, we've made a lot of headway on whether it's paying down debt or increasing our, our rating, but, you know, there still is more work to do. There's no question. I mean, pensions have been an important tool in getting people to go into public service.

• 23:34Caleb Hammer?

  Yes.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Um, and we saw with the Detroit bankruptcy about 10 years ago that... The, all the pensioners ended up not getting fully what they expected to when they worked for like the city of Detroit for as many years as they did. So these pension systems are, are, can be unwieldy, but it's, we have a duty to, to fund them.

• 23:55Caleb Hammer?

  Sure. I mean, the pension system being $24.4 billion underwater is five times the annual K-312 school aid fund contribution. So it's going to take a long time to close the gap. And then also with a retiree to active ratio of one to three, it's a little scary. What would you do to fix it?

• 24:12Speaker 03

  What do you, you know, I'm curious. I know you've done a ton of research here. Where do you, how do we stack up? What, what are, you seeing things that other states are doing that we should be, that we should learn from?

• 24:23Caleb Hammer?

  You know, I'll be honest, I was just pulling data from the state of Michigan and hyper focusing on state of Michigan.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:28Caleb Hammer?

  Because even when it comes to a lot of the guests on the show, I try not to sit there and endlessly compare to them to other people.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:35Caleb Hammer?

  I take a look at their situation. I'm like, okay, here's things that aren't good. What can we do to fix it? Now fixing a pension, that is not my expertise, but I would absolutely love to hear, you know, kind of what you would do. If you had the dictatorial stamp in the state of Michigan, how would you fix this pension underfunding ratio?

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Well, at, at the end of the day, right, I don't get to have a dictatorial ability to, to fix every problem that I see. And, and I, I think that's not how it should be, frankly. I gotta work with the legislature to have policies that make sense that everyone can live with. And right now I've got a Republican House and a Democratic controlled Senate. I think that we did a lot of good things in this last budget that we got done, whether it is cutting taxes on overtime and tips, like the House Republican leadership wanted to do. It's similar to what President Trump has done on the national level.

• 25:27Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Or it is investing in kids and newborn health that, that was a Senate priority. We got a lot of good stuff done, but there's still, there's always going to be additional work to, to do to shore up as we think long-term, especially as. We've got so many public servants who are aging and are going to be relying on this. So how can I fix it overnight? I can't fix it overnight.

• 25:52Caleb Hammer?

  Not overnight.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  I recognize that it's it's an important part of a long term solution that we've got to, we got to continue to strive toward.

• 26:00Caleb Hammer?

  Well, what is, what is the steps to put in for the long term solution, though, to fix the pension? Wanna know a dirty little secret? And no, I'm not starting an only [BLEEP]. You're not broke because you suck with money. You just can't see where it's going. If your bank account is empty at the end of every month, that is not bad luck. That is bad tracking. And it's exactly why I use Dollar Wise. It shows you exactly where your money's going every single month. Spending, subscriptions, and savings all in one simple dashboard. Everything you need and nothing you don't. And when you download Dollar Wise today, you'll get six to try it for free, plus three months for just $9.99. So you can finally take control and see what your money's been doing behind your back. Click below to get started.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Well, first, as you said, you know, we were in a stronger position than we were, and a lot of that's been driven by the market.

• 26:49Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  So we'll take it, right? But how do we ensure that we're putting more resources in? We've got our MIPSers, which is our, our school employees retirement. That is going to be coming offline in a few years because we're paying, we're getting up to full funding there. And so that is one additional mechanism that we'll have to put toward additional retirement dollars.

• 27:13Caleb Hammer?

  So my concern when it comes to, you know, I know that's not a retirement plan for everyone in Michigan. It's, you know, the, the employees for the state. But when it comes to, especially on the federal level entitlement programs that are put in, I'm a big fan, a lot of the concept of a lot of them. But one thing that we at least find within the last 100 years, if a big entitlement is put in, it's impossible to get rid of. And my fear with, you know, like a pension plan like this, right? Is it's so attached, you know, people are going to be very patriotic about it, who are, you know, state employees. But if it is not a sustainable system, it's going to be borderline impossible to tweak in a significant enough way to change it or even. Even get rid of, kinda like social security, it's not gonna work for my generation.

• 27:56Caleb Hammer?

  I'm gonna get a substantially less amount of money.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 28:00Caleb Hammer?

  And that sucks. And it's gonna be much more on the level of a literal Ponzi. It's not right now. Because right now, you know, money coming in, it's not fully dependent on money coming in. By the time I retire, it's gonna be fully dependent on money coming in. So that's what makes me nervous about like the pension system.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Well, I think to be clear, you know, people aren't getting pensions now, right? Like, this is not a long-term issue that we're seeing continuous, you know, continued in terms of policy. Previous governors and legislators got into the pension system. I'm not.

• 28:36Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  And I've been doing this for 25 years, so.

• 28:39Caleb Hammer?

  Well, you're gonna be president, so we don't have to worry about it.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Well, we're phasing out, is what I'm saying. So as you think about like, how is this sustainable over the long run? It's not going to be as big an issue for us in the long run, because it's not available to people.

• 28:52Caleb Hammer?

  That's good. Now, spending, 44% goes to Health and Human Services, as we said. 31% to education, transportation, 6.8%, and I know that was a big thing for you. I remember fix the damn roads when I still lived there.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 29:03Caleb Hammer?

  4.3% to the general government, public and safety corrections, 3.81%. I assume most of public safety is locally funded. Revenue sharing, 1.67 billion. Tax credits, 1.46. And I do have a little bit, you know, to talk about that as we continue to go through this. And then just some smaller ones in general. And then, you know, when it comes, and I would love to actually learn more about this. When it comes to the revenue, and we got operational grants is $33 billion. General taxes, $21 billion. Education, $16 billion. And transportation, $3.7 billion. Go into operating grants. I love to kinda learn a little bit more about that personally. You know, as I was sitting there thinking about how revenue is collected from the state.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Operating grants, where? Do you, I mean, do you have a specific department question?

• 29:52Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, overall, as we're just pulling in, like, where the money is coming into the state.

• 29:57Caleb Hammer?

  A big chunk, operational grants, you know, maybe through everything I was pulling from the state's websites. It just wasn't specific enough, but I was like, what is this? I'm so curious. Maybe she could answer it for me.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm going to, I don't want to, I don't want to guess off the top of my head and be wrong.

• 30:14Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, fair enough.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Government activity revenues.

• 30:19Caleb Hammer?

  Totally good.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  It just, it, yeah, it could be a variety of things and it's probably

• 30:26Speaker 03

  a lot of a variety of things.

• 30:27Caleb Hammer?

  And we already talked about the net position, but when it comes to the school aid fund, that is a balance, but it is restricted for education of 4.45 billion dollars. What's interesting about this, and I'd love to hear your perspective, is there's controversial things that are funding a big part of it. They got weed, you know, which is interesting. I was much more in favor of legalization many years ago, but so many studies have been coming out these last few years about just kind of overall effects on people, less, it's not like shaky dependency, but many things you do when you smoke every day are no longer as enjoyable when you stop smoking, you know, and just some overall health effects. I mean, if you're putting things in your lungs in general, it's usually not great for you.

• 31:08Speaker 10

  The state released its annual marijuana tax revenue totals yesterday. 270 million dollars.

• 31:14Speaker 15

  Mainly because of the marijuana dollars, we've got about a million dollars of work planned just in road improvements.

• 31:20Speaker 16

  Outside the state capitol, supporters of the cannabis industry gathered to fight a proposed 24% tax on marijuana.

• 31:27Speaker 17

  A 24% wholesale tax on marijuana is set to begin in January, part of a long-term plan to fund road construction in the state budget.

• 31:35Speaker 06

  Over the last few years, the city's been able to take a much more aggressive approach in repairing them, filling in the potholes, thanks to pot taxes.

• 31:44Speaker 07

  The 42 million dollars in revenue comes from, just from recreational sales and is being split among communities that allow these sales, thanks to Michigan's Taxation of Marijuana Act.

• 31:54Caleb Hammer?

  So there is that, that brings in 33.1 million dollars. Then there's sports betting and iGame. Combined grocery receipts, 2.86 to 2.9 billion dollars. But the state taxes and fees is 466. There's a lot of dependency issues, especially on gambling and things like that. How do you feel that so much of school is being funded through blazing it up and going and blowing all that money?

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know, I don't love that we see, you know, a lot of

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Gaming funding our schools, et cetera. But at the end of the day, people are engaging in the conduct and every state taxes it and, you know, operates budgets based on whatever taxes they collect. You know, our sales taxes also help fund our schools. Our sales taxes are lower than they are here in Texas. So

• 32:44Caleb Hammer?

  Yes, but we don't have income.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  To make up what the difference is, right? Like there are legislatures and governors passed have selected different things to include in the school aid fund. It's not like I came into office and, all right, this is how we're going to start doing it. But you've got to recognize that sin taxes are always the easiest taxes for legislators to take votes on. And that's generally why we see them continuing to fund things like schools and everything else in state government.

• 33:11Caleb Hammer?

  Well, people would say and advocate for it that it hurts the lower income the most.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  There's not, yeah, that's not wrong.

• 33:19Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  And yet, I think that that's one piece of the education budget. But by and large, you know,

• 33:25Caleb Hammer?

  There's about a fourth.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  It's two cents out of our six cent sales tax goes to our schools, too.

• 33:30Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah. Okay. And then as we continue there, the school stabilization fund is $1.3 billion. So, I mean, the overall school funding tends to look relatively healthy, but there is a lot of kind of restricted spending. So 1.3 is stabilization and countercyclical of 477 million, but 4.46 is restricted into education, which I think is good. At least we're not going in and tapping it, right?

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Right. Well, we just created that in the last two years, the stabilization fund. Because I know it's important that you've got like a savings fund in case some unforeseen thing happens. And who, God only knows, right? Like, the last seven years of, they've taught me anything is that there could be some new thing around the bend that you're not anticipating. So we've got a rainy day fund or budget stabilization fund. For the rest of the budget, I wanted to create one for schools because I think it's really important that we've got additional resources. So

• 34:22Caleb Hammer?

  And that's what's next.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:23Caleb Hammer?

  This is a good chart.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 34:24Caleb Hammer?

  This is a good chart, the rainy day fund.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. See?

• 34:27Caleb Hammer?

  It's only going up. COVID took a little bit. Okay, fair enough.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  It was hard.

• 34:30Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, it was a little, I'll be honest. I was a little annoyed when I came home for Christmas, two years in a row.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:38Caleb Hammer?

  Like, we had to eat outside, but we were in inside pods, outside. It was a little weird. Then I came back here and then I could just do whatever.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Well.

• 34:47Caleb Hammer?

  That was, that was a bit weird, I'll be honest.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Well, but remember what the, what the temperature was. Here, you can walk around outside all day, right? At home, in Michigan, in the winter, we're all inside, breathing on each other.

• 35:00Caleb Hammer?

  But if I was allowed to be inside, outside, why couldn't I just be inside, inside?

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Cause you were inside, outside with just your, your small group of people.

• 35:08Caleb Hammer?

  And the servers and bussers.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  Listen Caleb, none of us wants to go back and relive that. We were doing the best we could with very little or, or very bad information.

• 35:17Caleb Hammer?

  I'll accept that.

• 35:18Speaker 00

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• 35:47Caleb Hammer?

  I just remember being a little annoyed.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  I'm sure.

• 35:49Caleb Hammer?

  And it was cold too. Like what the f**k are people doing? Why the, it's so cold. What are we doing? Like.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  You, you, your blood got thin moving down south, didn't it?

• 36:00Caleb Hammer?

  Well, now I hate the summers, so it's fair. You know, I do, I, they're, they're, yeah. I'd like to get a place up there again on Gaul Lake at some point in retirement. I love Gaul Lake. I used to think razor burns were just the cost of shaving, like irritation and bumps are just how it works, right? So I kept trying to fix it with fancier creams, cold towels, better prep. But it turns out I wasn't solving anything. I was just managing damage with expensive blades that dull fast and cost way too much. And then I tried Henson. This razor isn't trying to be flashy. It's just engineered better. It's a single blade precision designed to stop tugging, pulling, and that post shave fire you've been pretending isn't a problem. My skin is calmer with no bumps and for once I didn't need more products.

• 36:44Caleb Hammer?

  Just the right tool. So if your current razor routine feels like a string of workarounds, maybe it's time to upgrade to something that actually works. Check out Henson at the link below. It is one of those rare swaps that saves your skin and your wallet. Get 100 free blades with the purchase of a razor that is over two years worth. Let's get back to the show. Personal tax rate, there was a 2023 drop to 4.05%, but that was brought back up to 4.25% and the Supreme Court denied an appeal on August 30th of last year. Were you more of a proponent of keeping it at 4.05 or moving it back to that 4.25?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  I was a proponent of following the law, which said I had to go back up to 4.25.

• 37:23Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, if the, if you were able to pass the law to bring it back down to four, would you?

• 37:27Speaker 03

  If someone could tell me how we're going to fund the things that we need to fund.

• 37:31Caleb Hammer?

  Would you cut back on anything in order to fund that?

• 37:33Speaker 03

  I think we've made a lot of hard cuts recently. So before I would agree to take more important resources out of our budget, I'd want to know where people think they're coming from. Part of the, you know, the hardship of being in this spot is the end of the day, I gotta make sure the books balance, right? And so it angers some people on my left, it angers some people on my right when say, no, I'm not, I don't want to look at that tax cut unless you got a solution for me. And no, I'm not going to look at the spending unless you're telling me where the money's coming from.

• 38:02Caleb Hammer?

  I'm curious if like, if this was, you know, me and my obnoxious middle. And this was the, what, what was, what's that? This was the right. And this is the left. And let's say Bernie and Mondomia are right here. Where are you?

• 38:16Speaker 03

  It depends on who you ask, but I think, I mean, I think I'm.

• 38:20Speaker 18

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• 38:50Speaker 03

  I'm closer to the middle.

• 38:51Caleb Hammer?

  Well, when I still lived there and you're going through the primary, there was a dude with like, I think like a fake toupee.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:57Caleb Hammer?

  Kind of guy, I think he's in Congress now, but he was like the progressive, you know, far left running, and then you were the more center.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  He and Abdul El Sayed, yes, were both way on the, yes.

• 39:07Caleb Hammer?

  But then you won.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  It really kind of irritated me at the beginning, to tell you the truth, because I'm proud to be a very, you know, progressive former legislator with like the receipts, right? Like, I'd been in the legislature, I took lots of votes, I had an agenda, and two guys who never ran for anything ran and, you know, took all these positions and tried to make me look like I wasn't really a good Democrat. And you know what? It irritated me at the beginning, but they actually probably did me a favor, because I think more people were open to hearing me out, and that's probably how I won.

• 39:39Caleb Hammer?

  But can you beat Gavin Newsom?

• 39:42Speaker 03

  In Michigan? Yeah. I could beat anyone in Michigan.

• 39:45Caleb Hammer?

  Fair enough. Now, one of the big percentages that money does go to, if we're bringing taxes, you know, legally up from 4.5 to 4.25, there is the Working Families Tax Credit. This is a redistribution-type system. And I think a lot of people forget, in this country, even compared to many Western countries, our income tax system is actually towards the top of the progressive world. A lot of the funding that comes in those Western European systems, social democracies that we like, are usually value-added taxes. That's what kind of pays the bills, right? And that tends to hurt everyone, where we tend to be more progressive, where the top 1% of this country pays, I believe it's like 30% of all income taxes, the top 50% pays 48% of, or 98% of all income taxes, the top 50% of earners.

• 40:28Caleb Hammer?

  So, we have this, where we move the taxes back up, but the state of Michigan, you know, is handing more money out. So, there's a single worker with no kids making $15,000, and the federal government might get $600 to $700. There was a match of 6% of Michigan, but now we're getting up to 30%.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  The, so, the Earned Income Tax Credit, that's what that is. The Working Families Tax Credit is what we're calling it now, but it was really the Earned Income Tax Credit. And this has been around for decades. A lot of states offer the EITC to draw down federal dollars for people that are working full-time but can't make ends meet, you know, like a lot of people you have on your show, right? You've got people who are working $15 an hour jobs, cannot, you know, cannot make it doing that. And so, this incentivizes full-time work. By giving people some additional tax relief and it is disproportionately, it's like over 50% supports people who are also raising kids. So it's like got that compounding benefit.

• 41:27Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, a single parent with two kids making 25,000 hours a year would roughly get $6,800. And now, you know, you get that 30% match from Michigan. Now technically, you know, this is a form of redistribution. It is. You know, maybe it's with a good heart. Do you think at the end of the day, it is overall beneficial to the economy in terms of the way we're looking for our economic structure to be created and managed?

• 41:52Speaker 03

  Well, I think government at the end of the day is really about making sure that every one of us can be safe, right? Like that's the most basic of government's job is to keep people safe, but also to create the conditions where every person can can thrive, right? To create an economy that business people can have the workforce that they need. I mean, it's all about what are our priorities and how do we make sure that all boats rise, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. I mean, I think that that's the philosophy that I've always looked at all of these policies with. And, you know, I think that it's important to have debate. I think it's important to understand some

• 42:37Speaker 03

  of the shortcomings of past policies and look to what others are doing and see can we make it better. I mean, one of the things that we've done is really invest in our workforce, bringing down the cost of higher education, bringing down the cost of getting into a trade school. There was something called the Tennessee Reconnect. We, you know, borrowed that idea, made it our own, and we've got the Michigan Reconnect, which helps people 25 and up go back to school and earn additional credentials. So, you know, it's, it's in all of our interests to make sure that those basics are addressed.

• 43:13Caleb Hammer?

  So there's also one of the more controversial things for EV holders like myself. I have a Model X and I love it and they hate me for it and it's great. You know, we have $160 a year for EVs since they're not paying, you know, gases. They're not getting gas tax. Is it fair, especially if you're more on the clean energy side, that they're punished for not having a gas vehicle?

• 43:37Speaker 03

  So how are you punished for not having a gas vehicle?

• 43:40Caleb Hammer?

  $160 a year for EVs and $60 a year for PHEVs as well.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  Okay, so that's for a registration fee. I mean, you're still using the roads, right? So it's a regis-

• 43:52Caleb Hammer?

  Thought about tolls?

• 43:52Speaker 03

  It's a regis- We have-

• 43:54Caleb Hammer?

  Good here in Michigan and Texas.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  We're exploring tolls. You know, it's a little, it's a little more challenging because we don't have people cutting through Michigan like we do Ohio and Pennsylvania. So it's a little more challenging, but we're studying it. And I think, you know, we're going to explore whether or not, you know, there's a roadway or two or many that that might, that might make sense.

• 44:14Caleb Hammer?

  Go to Canada, right? Cut through Michigan to go to Canada?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:18Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know if tolls are honestly good or not, but I just, you know, that's one of the controversial things that I kind of want to bring up. Controversial, it's not like people are like raising stakes.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  What?

• 44:27Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, and then we'll move on.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  How did you get into this? Can I ask you a question? Yes. Why, why, why is this your, your passion? Did you have a, a bad experience or did you make a bad decision?

• 44:41Caleb Hammer?

  I was poor as in Michigan.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:43Caleb Hammer?

  But that was my choice, not Michigan's fault.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:45Caleb Hammer?

  And I was dumb. Started learning about personal finance a lot. And then after wanting to switch career fields from product management and wanted to work with a YouTuber, someone kind of led me along for a couple of months, didn't hire me, so I decided to start my own. It's the short version.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  All right.

• 44:58Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  What's the worst financial mistake you've ever made?

• 45:02Caleb Hammer?

  That I ever made? I mean, I maxed out a credit card at 18 immediately on a piano. I wanted to get a piano because I was going to be a music major. I have to get a nice piano, $2,500, just there you go. Or McDonald's every day, junior year of college, also maxed out another $2,500 card.

• 45:19Speaker 03

  And McDonald's?

• 45:19Caleb Hammer?

  And that's why we got this. That's why we got this, baby.

• 45:23Caleb Hammer?

  That's that.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 45:24Caleb Hammer?

  So we already talked about, you know, some of the spending incentives cut back from the Ford Marshall Plan. Then there is the, the make it in Michigan where he spent a billion dollars on five EV plants as of 2025 of this month. Law makers killed that multi-billion subsidy program, right?

• 45:40Speaker 03

  Well, we are, we're retooling a bit. So I'm working with the legislature to make sure we still have some good economic development tools. But, um, you know, you gotta, you gotta retool. You gotta be nimble. We're competing against Ohio. We're competing against Japan. You know what I mean? Like, we're competing against the world. So we've got to have the tools we need.

• 46:00Caleb Hammer?

  And then pork. Government loves pork. We got 950 million dollars there. So 234 million dollars public infrastructure grants, like 50 million dollars for downtown Pontiac, 20 million dollars to the city of Wyoming, 20 million dollars Detroit, Greertown corridor, 5 million to Grand Rapids Children's Museum, 122 million dollars community enhancement projects, like 12 million statewide YMCA's, 5 million Detroit Fisher Building, 5 million Special Olympics. 5 million West Michigan Chamber. Do they not have their own money? Special Olympics?

• 46:34Speaker 03

  I mean, Special Olympics? Are you against Special Olympics?

• 46:38Caleb Hammer?

  No, I just, not the biggest fan of taxes sometimes.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  I understand.

• 46:43Caleb Hammer?

  Especially now that I have to write the check instead of it getting automatic.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  I get it. I get it. But, you know, this is not unique to Michigan. It's not great. And we are making changes to have more transparency in the process.

• 46:56Caleb Hammer?

  Yes.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  To make sure that people who are promoting whatever project they want to get done have to do it so many days in advance so that the whole world can scrutinize it, so that they can make their case that it's the right thing to do.

• 47:08Caleb Hammer?

  And trust me, I qualify for the Special Olympics. I'm [bleep]. 91 million for healthcare projects, 20 million to the Henry Ford Health, 30 million to Second Eye Medical Center, 10 million for Detroit firefighter health support, and then dozens of smaller options, like 900,000 dollars to a Troy cricket field. That's lots of Indian immigration there. 200,000 to a new Buffalo disc. And 1.6 million Grand Rapids ballet? From the States? Why can't Grand Rapids do that?

• 47:35Speaker 03

  It's a good question, Caleb. I'll have to tell you what legislature, what legislator asked for that, and you can answer that question.

• 47:42Caleb Hammer?

  It's just, you know, I love my home state.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  I know. Well, this, this doesn't make sense when you're looking at it from, you know, 40,000 feet. I get it.

• 47:51Caleb Hammer?

  But don't wait before we-

• 47:52Speaker 03

  I understand. But at the same token, I gotta get a budget to my desk, and legislators come with their, you know, with their special projects and- They negotiate them in and I introduce the budget, it doesn't have any pork in it. All right.

• 48:06Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  When I introduce the budget. So these are not things that I ever

• 48:08Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I can appreciate that.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Was advocating for.

• 48:10Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  But the legislature gets their shot at it and this is often what you see.

• 48:15Caleb Hammer?

  Detroit downtown boxing gym, $2 million. Detroit zoo, $7 million. We like the zoos. They're great. Zoos are exciting. Frankenmuth youth sports complex, $10 million from the state. Potter Park Zoo in Lansing, $10 million. You know, this is the part of the show where I usually go through the spending and it's like, we got some bull spending in there. We got some fucking taquitos, right? That's what we call them here.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  Taquitos?

• 48:38Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, you're stopping in the gas station, get yourself some bull some Special Olympics bull. Now, we love the Special Olympics. We love the Special Olympics.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  I don't endorse anything you said, yes.

• 48:49Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Caleb Hammer?

  Um, well, actually, and why it's kind of controversial is a lot of it is like no bid, negotiated lay and sponsored disclosure or after pack.

• 48:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. It's gross. I mean, I think that every dollar should be, if it's used in those ways, there should be a bidding process. Or at front end transparency, which is what I think we're going to get done.

• 49:11Caleb Hammer?

  There's also $3 million in, I think this year for state managed retirement plan marketplace for businesses under 100 employees. Like we get, like, I'm a small business under 100 employees. Like I save money on taxes implementing a retirement plan. Why, why does the state of Michigan need to come in and use taxpayer money to set up retirement plans for private businesses?

• 49:32Speaker 03

  It's a good question. I don't have a great answer for you other than I think the, the goal there is obviously to help the small business association help their members get, get healthcare.

• 49:44Caleb Hammer?

  And at least there, I mean, there are some things in court, like 2.5 million for the Lansing lug nuts. Who goes to the lug nuts? I don't know what a lug nut is.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  It's a lug nut. It's a part, it's a part in your car and the lug nuts are the baseball team in Lansing.

• 49:58Caleb Hammer?

  Hmm, interesting. Lots of e-bike incentives. $1,250 per bike.

• 50:05Speaker 19

  Electric bikes, e-bikes, could soon become more affordable under the new state budget. Republicans say the program is another example of wasteful spending. The vouchers could save buyers anywhere from $500 to just over $1,200.

• 50:19Speaker 20

  What was the public feedback about what kind of access there should be now for bikes?

• 50:23Speaker 21

  I would say it was really split. Some were very much in favor and in support of what the department was proposing. Some were very much against it.

• 50:32Caleb Hammer?

  So it's expensive, you know, just people are paying a lot of money in taxes. And it's a small percentage overall, but it all stacks up, right?

• 50:38Speaker 19

  Right.

• 50:38Caleb Hammer?

  Um, and you know, when we're thinking of like the pork that it goes to of almost a billion bucks, like that kind of, that starts to hurt. That kind of starts to hurt. This one was kind of, this is a pilot program put into law this year. $2.5 million going to grant program aimed at short-term lenders. Payday loans, essentially. Government-funded payday loans. Now, I know you didn't advocate for this. I'm not saying that.

• 51:02Speaker 19

  You're right. I just assumed sign a budget that doesn't have any of those things in it, like the budget that I introduced in February.

• 51:08Caleb Hammer?

  Um, the state of Michigan outlook is actually pretty, uh, in general, pretty good. Two, 3.9% growth, uh, income per capita this year projected, uh, going forward about 3.2%. And we do expect slower growth overall, economists are saying, but still growth in Michigan, which is good. You got up to the AA, AA plus. That's exciting credit rating. And Detroit's kind of, you know, getting a nice little rebound. You know, that little core area, we like that. If I would live anywhere, it would be Grand Rapids personally, if I moved back. But, um, 50% of the year being overcast just can't.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 52:08Caleb Hammer?

  Do that. There is, you know, potential tariff risks right now. Manufacturing is flat to down and uncertainty is definitely high. It is, the state is 49th in population growth. That is a long-term risk. You know, growing populations required for a thriving economy. And CEO sentiment is negative. And, you know, so those are kind of the concerns of the state of Michigan. Do you have any thoughts on those before we kind of go on into some of the other goodies?

• 52:34Speaker 03

  Of course I do. I got thoughts on all of it. But, you know, I'll, I'll keep it succinct. I think, you know, there are a lot of good things happening. I think overwhelmingly, we just saw a new poll come out about kind of sentiment in Detroit. Some crazy number, like 78% of people feel like we're on the right track. I don't know how long it's been since you've been to Detroit, but we hosted-

• 52:55Caleb Hammer?

  I try to avoid it.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  Well, we hosted the draft last year. It was spectacular. I mean, there's so much good stuff going on in Detroit, Grand Rapids. Michigan's a great place. And yes, we've got some challenges. But I feel like we're making real headway. And it's an exciting time to be, to be in Michigan.

• 53:14Caleb Hammer?

  For at least half the year.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  No, all year round. Caleb, people are gonna need places like Michigan. 20% of the world's fresh surface water.

• 53:24Caleb Hammer?

  That is true.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  You know, we don't have nearly the climate stuff that you guys have down here, for instance.

• 53:29Caleb Hammer?

  We got them droughts, droughts and flood.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  Or on the east coast, you know, I mean, when we have a ice storm, you know, we got the equipment to take care of it.

• 53:37Caleb Hammer?

  That is true. The only reason I'd move back to Michigan is if the world is collapsing. That would be the one thing.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Oh, you're kidding me.

• 53:42Caleb Hammer?

  I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm fucking with you. My family's there. I love Michigan. It's a, you know, I got, I got my Michigan stuff.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  I know. You got a Michigan gift here, too.

• 53:50Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah. Oh, thank you. Yes. Hi, listen here, financial audit. I've curated the exact resources and tools I personally use, or would use if I was in certain situations. So take advantage of these offers in the resources section in the description below. The first one, I've moved my investments to Weebull. Do the same and transfer to my investing app of choice, and you get cash bonuses of $200 all the way up to $30,000, depending on initial funding. Amount and up to 8.1% APY on your money and up to 3.5 matches for your IRA. And then number two, a great new checking account that I've switched over from SoFi and it's called Chime.

• 54:31Caleb Hammer?

  Get that $550 bonus when you sign up with direct deposit and get almost 4% on your money just sitting there. And then three, automate your investing with Acorns. Usually sign up incentives are only five bucks, but you get $20 with my link. Number four, you can increase your income and boost your resume with a course career certification. Five, if T-Mobile is good in your area, switch to Helium and get a literal $0 a month phone plan for the same exact service. But most importantly, go get your free Hammer financial score and see where you stand in the world of finances. Take the assessment at CalebHammer.com. You will not regret any of these change your life today.

• 55:11Caleb Hammer?

  Yes, let's do that. And while I do this, I mean, this is exciting. So the personal finance being taught in school, I'd love to learn more about that.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, you know what? It is, there's no question in my mind that we're missing an important-

• 55:24Caleb Hammer?

  Head shark.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  A shark, yes.

• 55:25Caleb Hammer?

  For the hammer.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  You're the hammer.

• 55:26Caleb Hammer?

  There are not sharks in Lake Michigan.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  But I love Shark Week.

• 55:30Caleb Hammer?

  You love Shark Week?

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Oh God, you've got a, yes, there's a whole story there.

• 55:34Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 55:35Speaker 03

  You want to hear it?

• 55:36Caleb Hammer?

  Uh, no.

• 55:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Google Gretchen Whitmer and Shark Week.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  It's not just shark. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  Week. Is Shark Week? But anyway, yes. Hammerhead Shark, because I love sharks. What else?

• 56:19Caleb Hammer?

  I'll push you over the edge in 2028. Shark Week.

• 56:24Caleb Hammer?

  I'm sorry. I'm just being a dick for no reason. Let's see. Oh, some coasters, I think. I'm feeling coasters.

• 56:35Caleb Hammer?

  Look at that. The state of Michigan coaster. We love it. It is the Great Lakes State.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 56:40Caleb Hammer?

  And it is the Mitten State, Wisconsin. Fuck off. Like, what are they doing?

• 56:42Speaker 03

  Wisconsin, give me a break.

• 56:43Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, yeah. Tell them to fuck off.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Fork off.

• 56:48Caleb Hammer?

  Okay. I really appreciate it. I would love to learn more about personal finances being taught.

• 56:54Speaker 03

  Something more. Oh, here's the. Ah.

• 57:00Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, yeah, Natty. This is exciting, and I want to close the conversation on a happy note with that. But yes, Western Michigan, the national championship in college hockey last year. Thank you.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Hockey puck, yes. They beat my alma mater, Michigan State, on the way, so.

• 57:15Caleb Hammer?

  You're damn right. We split with Michigan this weekend.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 57:18Caleb Hammer?

  But personal finance being taught in school.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  So, you know, there's no question that everyone needs to know personal finance. Yeah, I remember talking to my daughter when she was taking algebra, and she's like, "Why do I need to know quadratics? I need to know how to pay my taxes and buy a house." And, you know, that sentiment, I think, is real, right? We've got to give people the tools they need to take care of themselves. And we had to do it before they head off to college and get that credit card when they're 18 years old and buy a stupid piano.

• 57:47Caleb Hammer?

  I still have it, thank you.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  Okay, pianos aren't stupid, but to buy a piano at 18 was not smart.

• 57:53Caleb Hammer?

  It was horrible. It was stupid.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  So, you know, we want to, giving people budgeting, having a rudimentary understanding of markets and how to save. You know, I'm always talking to my kids about maximize what you can. If your employer has some sort of a match, do the maximum. Like, that's what my parents always taught me, right? And I did it my whole time, and I've been a public service, you know, my whole life. I've, you know, I'm not complaining about what I make, but I don't make a fortune. It's public service. That's part of it. As governor, it's $159,000 a year, you know, and certainly that's the highest I've ever been paid, so.

• 58:29Caleb Hammer?

  A new book, right?

• 58:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm donating that money to charity. I can't make additional money while I'm governor. So, anyway, but the point is, like, you max it out, you max it out, and we want people to understand that. You know, I think a lot of, a lot of people get into trouble very quickly because they just don't have that rudimentary. Even my husband, who was a dentist, he went to school, you know, K through 12, went to college four years, went to dental school four years, and then was.

• 58:54Caleb Hammer?

  Really nice teeth.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  Thank you. I paid a lot of money. I knocked these suckers out when I was in eighth grade, but anyway.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  The point is, he graduated after all this schooling, didn't have any idea how to run a business. No one taught him.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 59:37Speaker 03

  From that, he had to learn that. Yeah. Oh, God, that's.

• 59:41Caleb Hammer?

  It's true.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  It got dark fast.

• 59:43Caleb Hammer?

  No, it's true, though. High suicide rate.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  But had to, you know, had to figure that out on the fly. Didn't get that rudimentary knowledge. So that's what we were trying to do. Give people, arm people with information.

• 59:54Caleb Hammer?

  And this is required for graduation?

• 59:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 59:56Caleb Hammer?

  Very good. Is there any way out of that? Because I know sometimes you can take like, this is a slightly different class, but it's kind of adjacent. So you don't have to take that class.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  I don't believe so. I think that this is, and anyone who's in 10th grade now will have to have had it in order to graduate.

• 1:00:11Caleb Hammer?

  Well, W for that, right? I mean, that's.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  It's good. It's important.

• 1:00:16Caleb Hammer?

  That's very important. Can you change one thing for me, though?

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:00:20Caleb Hammer?

  This is so moronic. I don't understand because Texas does it too. I think it's just Michigan and Texas, if I'm not mistaken. Tesla cannot be licensed as a dealer in the normal sense. With the Michigan Vehicle Franchise Act in Michigan, I know we want to protect the auto industry, but we got new type of auto industry coming. I don't know if they build in Michigan, but like we, like let people just buy a car. And they have to be, avoid being in-state new direct sales under dealership law. So the sale is orchestrated out of state and then the vehicle titled in Michigan afterwards. And Tesla cannot directly own a service and repair faculty in Michigan under the same corporate structure.

• 1:00:58Speaker 03

  Tesla.

• 1:00:59Caleb Hammer?

  It's stupid. It's really stupid.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  It would take an act of the legislature to get it done. So I can't do it unilaterally. I will say this, though. There's no shortage of Teslas driving on Michigan roads.

• 1:01:09Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but they have to get, it has to be an order out of state. We have to do this in, like, if I buy the Cybertruck that was.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  Who would do that?

• 1:01:17Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I love my ex. Like, I'm just saying, I love my ex. Cybertruck, not for me. But if I were to buy them, they're made in Austin. It gets like shipped out of state, then moved, then back in. It's really silly.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  That's weird.

• 1:01:29Caleb Hammer?

  It's just like, why is the government, like, picking? Well, I guess, going like full old school, like Obama-era winners and losers. It's kind of rare. You're picking like the old-school dealership.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Why is it the law in Texas? That is weird.

• 1:01:42Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know. But in Michigan, too.

• 1:01:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's...

• 1:01:45Caleb Hammer?

  We're supporting the big three.

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  I think, I think we can understand the history that, why that's the reality currently in Michigan.

• 1:01:51Caleb Hammer?

  But maybe like, you know, get a little sucky-sucky Elon and, you know, try to get him to build some stuff in Michigan.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  Hey, man, Elon Musk wants to have a conversation about building in Michigan. I'm all, I'm all ears.

• 1:02:01Caleb Hammer?

  Hear that?

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:03Caleb Hammer?

  Come on in.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  Why would you go anywhere else?

• 1:02:06Caleb Hammer?

  50% overcast of the year. Depression, I can't do it. I cannot do it. Now, student loans in the country, you know, you'll probably be somewhere nearing the White House at some point. And right now, we got $1.63 trillion in student loans. That's crazy. In federal student loans alone, not, not to mention private. And we got $40,000 for the average borrower. And 40% dropout, by the way. I'm among that 40%. That is 45 million people have federal student debt. And delinquency rates are rising at 7.73%. Now, it might be a question as, you know, the Trump administration through the BBB did enact some changes.

• 1:02:50Caleb Hammer?

  And that kind of included the RAP plan.

• 1:02:53Speaker 06

  President Trump's new tax and spending law brings sweeping changes to the federal student loan system.

• 1:02:58Speaker 22

  Total student debt in America is at $1.8 trillion. It's roughly tripled in the last 17 years.

• 1:03:05Speaker 04

  A surge in past due student loans is sparking new concerns about the health of the US economy. Currently have 22,000.

• 1:03:13Speaker 23

  56,000.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  90,000. 134,000.

• 1:03:16Speaker 23

  108,137.48 in student loans.

• 1:03:21Speaker 24

  In one survey, 60% of younger borrowers said they'd be in their 40s before their student loans are paid off.

• 1:03:27Speaker 25

  My daughter's going to a school she can't afford, $240,000 in debt. She's gonna be a well-financed barista when this is over.

• 1:03:35Caleb Hammer?

  And simplifying a lot of the complicated repayment processes. And that means payments are set at one to 10%. But I've seen all over TikTok, a lot of people, mostly on, well, the TikTok generation, like, kind of far left. They're like, I'm not going to pay. Then they get their wages garnished. They're like, I can't afford to pay. And it's like 1% of their income. What is your thoughts on this? Because I know you have a different political philosophy than the President of the United States. But that doesn't seem like a bad thing. But everyone on the left side of the political aisle was like, this is evil.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  So where we're sitting right now, there's monsters. And every once in a while, I smell toast. Do you smell the toast?

• 1:04:07Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, it's a bakery. You're not having a stroke.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  So I'll make sure I wasn't having like something going on. Okay.

• 1:04:11Caleb Hammer?

  I'm sorry. I always forget to tell people.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  The, you know, when I went to college, way back in my day, when I went to college, the state picked up about 75% of my tuition and my family and I had to come up with the other 25%, right? And nowadays, it's the exact opposite. So we have shifted. We've, as a society, have said, it's not in all of our interests that we have an educated population. It's on you if you're going to pursue that. And so state picks up 25%, the individual picks up 75%. And they're putting more and more on credit cards, more and more taking out debt, right? And so this is a part of the equation that's gotten us here. Now, what is the solution? I think there's a lot of debate, and I don't think that there's any solution on the horizon right now.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  But I guess what I would challenge you and ask you is, what do you think? I mean, you're, you're someone that this, you know, you're, you're closer to the generation we're talking about that's carrying all this debt.

• 1:05:08Caleb Hammer?

  I got 40,000.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  You've had your amount of debt that you acquired. What do, what do you think the solution is? Because

• 1:05:13Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I think this potentially might have a part of the solution. One, one thing that many on, you know, the left are kind of angry about this. And trust me, bring a right wing governor on and I'll critique their things too. You know, you're just on the left wing. So obviously, we're going to talk about things that are interesting. But they got upset that there are graduate borrowing limits, undergraduate borrowing limits. You talked about how 75% used to be paid for by the state. Now it's 25% and it's on the individual. Well, a lot of the times on the left, we've seen borrow an infinite amount of money to go to college, no caps. Why wouldn't the colleges just continue to raise how much it costs to go there if you can borrow whatever? If, if one goes up, the other is going to go up. So setting these caps.

• 1:05:54Caleb Hammer?

  Should hopefully at least discourage like they have to have people in you know butts in classrooms, right?

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:01Caleb Hammer?

  They have to. And if people can't borrow a certain amount to go there, they won't be able to go. My hope is that would hopefully you know restrict the endless increase of administrators and everything and just bullshitting that colleges do. Now unfortunately, foreign students, they pay cash and that's an easy replacement. And another fear is people will just go borrow from the private student loans now. So but I think what was kind of confusing to me is like the solution, I haven't heard a solution on the left other than just keep raising what people can borrow forever. And of course, the schools are always going to just say, well, can I have more money then? Because you can borrow more.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  Did you, when Biden supported, you know, had his writing off debt plan, did you, how did that hit you?

• 1:06:46Caleb Hammer?

  Um, I wouldn't have qualified at that time. Actually, I think I may have due to my previous year tax return, I was qualified for like a smaller forgiveness. And I'll take free money, you know, I'll take free money, but it wasn't a solution. It was nothing long term. It helps a select group of people that have already gone to school, but it doesn't help anyone in the future because it didn't address the actual issue.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  Right. It was interesting to me, you know, as I talked to people in Michigan, you know, people who did take out debt, had paid it off, who were so like, you know, salty about the fact that someone else who hadn't paid off their debt could get it written off.

• 1:07:23Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Speaker 03

  And it was kind of interesting. I just, it's a, it's a hard, it's a hard challenge to figure out what the equitable solution is because we don't want people carrying debt for their whole lives.

• 1:07:34Caleb Hammer?

  No, but letting people borrow infinite amount forever. In my, you know, I went to high school in Michigan, I went to a good high school.

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Caleb Hammer?

  But still, every administrator and everything was borrow any amount to go to whatever school you want for whatever degree you want. We got people getting bullshit degrees that are not going to translate in the market and they're borrowing whatever it takes to go to the school that has the sports team they care about. I mean, this is not working.

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, we should, we could have a whole conversation about sports and, and college.

• 1:08:02Caleb Hammer?

  If you were president in a hypothetical world, you know, of course, you will never run, but would you want the wealthy to pay more taxes?

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Would I, I mean, just for the purpose of paying taxes?

• 1:08:15Caleb Hammer?

  Income capital gains.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  Or for the purpose of strengthening our, you know,

• 1:08:19Caleb Hammer?

  Or national debt.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  And our paying off our national debt for purpose of our homeland security and making sure that we've got defense. You know, I think we've got a lot of, a lot of important things that we have not been doing.

• 1:08:31Caleb Hammer?

  What do you advocate for tax increases among?

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  I'm not here, I'm not here as a candidate for a higher office and I'm not here to advocate for any new taxes.

• 1:08:40Caleb Hammer?

  In Michigan, would you raise taxes?

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  In, in Michigan, I mean, we did just raise taxes for, on, on sales of cannabis.

• 1:08:46Caleb Hammer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:08:47Caleb Hammer?

  But income taxes on individuals or, I know there's no capital gains taxes, but would you?

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  I have not introduced an income tax in Michigan, no.

• 1:08:55Caleb Hammer?

  And you wouldn't support it if it came across your desk?

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  If there's, it ain't coming.

• 1:09:00Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 1:09:01Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm just telling you, I, I know you, I know you want to play the high, you want to play the, all the hypotheticals, but I'm grounded in reality. It ain't coming.

• 1:09:10Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, but tax increases-

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Why am I gonna take a position on something that's never gonna happen?

• 1:09:13Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, um.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  When you're president, would you propose higher taxes, income taxes on the wealthy?

• 1:09:21Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I don't know. All that concerns me is, you know, California, um, you know, they've lost 1.6% of personal tax income because people can move anywhere now. The UK itself, you know, they've lost six, 16,500 millionaires going all across the world. They're losing tax revenue substantially 10% lost in taxes and capital gains taxes because they decided to close, close some loopholes and they're like, let's get people to pay the fair share. And now they're losing more tax revenue. So that's why I wanted to kind of hear your philosophy on this. Now we are wrapping up here. Um, can I ask a couple, uh, quick fires, Ms. Press Secretary? Sorry. Couple of quick fires? Very cool. Quick fires, very good.

• 1:10:03Caleb Hammer?

  Um, Michigan is a declining population state where southern states, um, you know, Texas gained 4.3, Florida 4.7, where states like New York, Michigan, California are leaving.

• 1:10:15Caleb Hammer?

  Why do you think that's happening? Why is that transition happening in this country?

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  I wouldn't say we're declining. We're not growing as fast.

• 1:10:20Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  I think that's an important distinction.

• 1:10:22Caleb Hammer?

  The year of that this metric was taken, which was 2020 to 2023, that had a 0.3% loss.

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  In our last census, we were up a percentage point. So whatever, I mean, it's not worth quibbling. It's just the point that, you know, we do have an older population in Michigan. And I think that's part of why our strategy around investing in people, places and opportunities, you know, that bring good paying jobs is going to continue to be really important. But I do have a head of chief growth officer for state in the country to do that. We want to stay focused on how do we grow our population. It's important.

• 1:10:56Caleb Hammer?

  And now in the state of Michigan, we are seeing Michigan court rule 6.106 provides that the default presumption is release on personal recognitions, which is no money bond or on unsecured bond rather than cash bail. We are starting to see even a shooting that happened in Austin over the weekend was someone that has already had multiple violent offenses. We know that people, individuals with three to 10 violent crime convictions represent only 0.9% of the total population, but account for almost 50% of violent crime. And those who have been released from prison account for 70% were rearrested within three years. Is these no cash bail systems that, you know, we're tending to see places like New York, New Jersey, Illinois, DC, and we talked about Michigan, is that actually benefiting people?

• 1:11:40Caleb Hammer?

  Or is it just, are we not keeping people safe like we want to?

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  I think, you know, I'm, I'm proud of a lot of the, the trajectories that we're on in Michigan. I think that when it comes to the no cash bail, what we see is a situation where people without resources pay a much bigger penalty than those that do. Just one more example of it is in, in the criminal justice realm. Our recidivism rate is really low in Michigan.

• 1:12:06Caleb Hammer?

  That's good.

• 1:12:06Speaker 03

  Proud of that. But certainly, you know, there are always going to be examples of, of where someone is, um, you know, not a part of the, the general rule and, and is a egregious example. And I think you've just raised a couple.

• 1:12:20Caleb Hammer?

  And then two final rapid fires. First one, a little more sad. Second one, very happy. Political extremism. It's scary.

• 1:12:27Speaker 26

  I think we're in for a violent couple of years.

• 1:12:32Speaker 11

  It's an ungovernable city.

• 1:12:35Speaker 11

  People are exercising a lot of their rights to take it to the streets and get their voices heard. Political extremism was the number one issue in America.

• 1:12:44Speaker 06

  An alarming rise in political violence across the US, targeting both Democrats and Republicans. Nearly a third of Americans now believe political violence may be necessary to get the country back on track.

• 1:12:55Speaker 04

  A man broke into the Pennsylvania governor's mansion in April and set the dining room alight in an attempt to kill Governor Josh Shapiro and his family.

• 1:13:03Speaker 06

  President Donald Trump is announcing on Truth Social, Charlie Kirk is dead.

• 1:13:06Speaker 14

  The horror unfolded around nine last night. A group of people leaving a young diplomat's reception at the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington when a gunman opened fire. Both diplomatic staff at the Israeli embassy were killed. Tonight, it's being investigated as a targeted terror attack.

• 1:13:22Speaker 11

  Right now, at 6:04, happening today, Minnesotans will begin saying goodbye to a powerful political leader who was tragically assassinated in her own home.

• 1:13:38Speaker 26

  I know people on Martha's Vineyard, on Martha's Vineyard, who if they had the opportunity to kill Donald Trump, probably would. They think he's Hitler.

• 1:13:46Caleb Hammer?

  We just saw Charlie Kirk get shot. Me, you know, people are gonna view me as more right wing in this conversation because I push back on some left wing policies.

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:13:52Caleb Hammer?

  And if Governor Abbott from Texas was here, I'd push back on some right wing policies. That's what happens. But people are gonna see that, and they've already called me fascist and Nazi online just because I say personal responsibility is okay with money. Oh, scary. But people are labeling that and then killing them because they're fascist. Kill all fascists. Okay, maybe that makes sense, but if you label a normal person a fascist, you kill them? What do you think is going on with political extremism right now? And how would you solve it?

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  I think it's really dangerous when we have leaders who wanna fan the flames of anger and violence. I think we'll continue to see it grow, which is why I take it so seriously, which is why whether I'm the target of it or one of my colleagues on either side of the aisle is or the President of the United States is, I speak out against it every single time. I don't make excuse for it. I do not accept it, no matter where it's coming from. It's not okay. And I think it's... Be refreshing if everyone with a platform did that.

• 1:14:49Caleb Hammer?

  And then final, hey, the poll came out today, NCAA hockey, the top three teams, Michigan State, Michigan, Western Michigan. We are the hockey state.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:14:59Caleb Hammer?

  We, and we own this place. National champions last year, Western Michigan. I don't know. You're probably rooting for Michigan State, but I just, I just, I just want to share a little bit of hockey love.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  I love it. Let's go, man.

• 1:15:10Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah. Awesome. All right. Future President of the United States, Governor Whitmer here. Thanks for joining us for this financial audit. I'd say, you know, Hammer Financial Score for the state of Michigan, honestly, looks halfway decent. Couple pension concerns, couple of that overall net worth concern, but looking at about a six or a seven out of 10. So Caleb Hammer.com for that. Thank you, Governor.

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:15:31Caleb Hammer?

  And don't forget to join us for the Financial Audit Post Show where we do an extra 20 minutes of this conversation with me and the team and the producers and we break down this conversation and go into more tea. I'll see you there. Click that join button. Bye.

• 1:15:44Speaker 12

  Caleb, what's the one question you really wanted to ask, but you knew that you maybe couldn't ask?

• 1:15:49Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, we didn't talk about.

• 1:15:51Speaker 06

  Hearing you say in front of the governor. Or gooning out of the gate.

• 1:15:56Speaker 12

  That was my favorite moment.

• 1:15:57Caleb Hammer?

  Hammer Elite is the best YouTube membership on the platform and I just upgraded it. Three exclusive dedicated shows every single day, Monday through Friday. Join with the link in the pinned comment or description below. This is the best membership you'll ever join. That's a promise.

• 1:16:15Speaker 27

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.