BITESIZE | The Life Changing Magic Of Walking for Your Health, Happiness & Relationships | Dr Courtney Conley #686

Most of us walk every day without really thinking about it – but this episode is guaranteed to change that. Because this simple, free, radical act is one of the most powerful things you can do for your body, your brain and your longevity. Today’s Bitesize is from episode 660 of the podcast with movement specialist and co-author of the brilliant book ‘Walk: Your Life Depends On It’, Dr Courtney Conley. We unpack how many steps a day the research shows we really need to make a difference to our mood and our health. Courtney shares simple ways to get more from every walk, and reveals how something as simple as walking together could strengthen our relationships as well as our health. All of us, whatever our age or starting point, can benefit from walking more or better – and this episode will help you do that, one step at a time. Thanks to our sponsor ⁠⁠⁠https://thewayapp.com/livemore Show notes and the full podcast are available at drchatterjee.com/660 Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts ⁠⁠https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore⁠⁠ For other podcast platforms go to ⁠⁠https://fblm.supercast.com. DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rangan Chatterjee?

  Today's bite-sized episode is sponsored by The Way, the only meditation app with a single long-term pathway. Now, if you've tried other meditation apps before, I am certain that The Way will be the one that will finally help you develop a consistent practice. You see, one of the best things about it is that you are not going to get overwhelmed with different options. You simply open the app and do the next meditation, building up your practice step by step. After a few sessions, you will feel as if you've got your own personal meditation teacher, who of course is the wonderful Henry Schukman, who has appeared as a guest on this podcast

• 0:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  on two separate occasions. Now, I personally have been using this app for over six months now, and I absolutely love it. In fact, I love it so much that I have invested in the company to join them in their mission to get more people meditating. For listeners of my podcast, The Way is offering 30 free days to establish your own meditation practice. All you have to do is go to thewayapp.com/livemore to get started.

• 1:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  Welcome to Feel Better Live More Bite Size, your weekly dose of inspiration, insights, and practical ideas to help you live well and thrive. Each episode brings you some of my favorite moments, useful tools, and inspiring ideas from the many incredible conversations I've had on my podcast. Today's bite-sized is from episode 660 of the podcast with Dr. Courtney Conley, movement specialist and co-author of the bestselling book, Walk: Your Life Depends on It. We unpack how many steps a day the research shows we really need to make a difference to our mood and our health.

• 2:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Courtney shares some simple ways we can get more from every walk, and she reveals how something as simple as walking together could strengthen our relationships as well as our health. You talk about the 10,000-step urban legend.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  You describe it as a persistent myth that has actually had a deleterious effect and discouraged many people from walking because this daily step goal feels out of reach to many. Is 10,000 steps a myth?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  It is. It's actually based on a, we call it a marketing hangover. So in the 1960s, there was a Japanese company that produced a pedometer called a Manpoke, which actually means 10,000-step meter. So it was more designed just as a marketing campaign. And then what's really wild is that that has been adopted as the step count that we should all be trying to reach, when in fact, there is no science behind that number. And I think when people think 10,000 steps, it can be very daunting, but when you look at the science, it's actually much less.

• 3:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I think you've quoted research in the book saying that even going from, what, 2,500 to 3,800 steps a day gives you some benefits?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Reduces all-cause mortality by 7%, which is, you know, I have plenty of patients that have been in chronic pain, where these are the conversations that we're having, where anything is better than nothing. So I think that's very encouraging for people that live on that end of the spectrum, where they've been in chronic pain for a while. They're afraid to put their foot on the ground. And it's, okay, we're going to take what we've termed a micro-walk, which is five minutes, which gives you about 500 steps. And it builds confidence in people's movement. They start to trust their body again. And I think at that level, that really is priority.

• 3:59Rangan Chatterjee?

  So what does the science tell us about the amount of steps we need to gain certain health benefits?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  So it's very individualistic. So depending upon where you start, what your baseline is. But if you were to look at just an overall number, where are we going to maximize longevity benefit? You're looking anywhere from 7,000 to 8,000 steps.

• 4:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  7,000 to 8,000 steps. So we'll come back to 10,000 steps in just a minute because I actually have quite liked that as a guideline. But I totally understand where you're coming from, which is that can be off-putting to people. And some people might go, well, I can't reach 10,000, so what's the point? Let's make it super accessible for people. If you add 1,000 more steps to your daily step count, what could that potentially do for us?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  So if you were, if we were going to throw out some numbers, if you were to get to 3,800 steps per day, you can reduce your risks of getting dementia by 25%. If you were to jump to 5,000 steps per day, this is a big one, I think, you can reduce the symptoms of depression. And I just want to pause there for a second because my patients that live below 5,000 steps, below 2,500 steps, there is very often this mental health challenge that they are also facing. It's almost like the lack of step count

• 5:36Speaker 01

  goes hand in hand with feelings of sadness and depression. And I think that makes sense because of the lack of movement, the lack of this core biological input that our brains need.

• 5:50Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  And so depending upon where someone is along the spectrum, adding in 1,000 steps, for example, which is about 10 minutes, can really bump you into different categories. When you get to 7,000 steps, you reduce your risks of getting dementia. And I think it's this stacking of behaviors. So I start walking more, then I'm sleeping better, then I'm breathing better, then I'm eating better. So it's building this foundation that then our health can expand upon with something that is so easily accessible and underutilized.

• 6:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it really is incredible. It reminds us of something that we spoke about when you were first on the podcast a couple of months ago. This idea that, yes, exercise, movement, walking is good for us and, you know, can reduce your risk of dementia, can help you live longer. I mean, some research suggesting maybe 10 years, you can live longer, right? Reduce your risk of depression, all that kind of stuff. And the flip side is that maybe it's not that the movement is good for us, it's that the lack of movement that many of us have in the modern world is devastatingly bad for us.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, you know, after we spoke last time, I was thinking about that quite a bit. And if we were to flip the script, because I think people take walking for granted.

• 7:14Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Until they can't. Because if you were to ask someone, how would you feel if you couldn't walk? It's almost like a panic, like, well, that would be terrible. I mean, think about it. You couldn't, you know, walk to your mailbox, walk around your block, walk with your friends, play with your grandkids. I mean, everything really is surrounded by and for human propulsion and gate. And so when we take that away, whether it's because we choose to by a sedentary lifestyle or we're in pain, it really compromises our health.

• 7:50Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. So it's not that you have a problem with an individual doing 10,000 steps a day. You're not saying that's negative for that individual. You're saying as a public health guiding principle, we should be making it more accessible.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yes. And, you know, when you look at the research, it does seem to plateau from a longevity perspective at about 10,000, 12,000 steps. So on the other end of the spectrum, if my patients will say, I'm walking 15,000, 16,000 steps per day. Wonderful. Are you also strength training? Are you doing these other things that are necessary for living well as you age? And if the answer to that question is no, because some of my patients will say, well, I just don't have time because I'm walking 15,000, 16,000 steps a day. Then we have the conversation of, what if we dialed it down? Let's bring you down to 10. Now I give you some time back. Now we can get you in the gym.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  We can strength train and start making your fitness a little more well-rounded.

• 8:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. In your experience, what are the common reasons why people don't get their steps in each day?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I think with modern convenience comes responsibility. We have to think about it more now. You know, when you are working from home, for example, and you're sitting in front of your desk for eight, nine hours a day, you have to consciously be aware and take breaks. Or else you could just flow right through your day without getting much movement at all. So it has become more of this awareness. You have to really be diligent about saying, okay, it's time for me to go for a five-minute walk. It's time for me to get up and move around. In the book, we have all those movement snacks in there. You could do 10 air squats. You could do walking lunges. You could get outside and take a five-minute walk. You just have to interrupt prolonged activity.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  And it's become very easy to forget to do that. So that's where I think it's important. I think the other conversation there is when people get their morning workout in. So I ran for an hour. I went to the gym for an hour before my workday. That hour of activity doesn't excuse you from movement throughout the day.

• 10:15Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  It doesn't take away prolonged activity like sitting all day long. So there has to be this interjection of movement that people need to be consciously aware of because it just doesn't happen easily anymore.

• 10:28Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. Everything works better when we've moved, and in particular, when we've walked. There's something quite different about walking, isn't there?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  It's this core biological input that stimulates every system in our body. Think about strength training, for example, which is very good. I'm very, obviously, a very big proponent of that. Strength training happens a couple of times a week. There's needs, there's a recovery that has to occur. Walking is something that happens every single day, like breathing and like sleeping. It should be viewed as this physiological necessity that is non-negotiable. It's this low to moderate repetitive activity. So it's from an intensity perspective. So there's less loads per se than running. We get our heart rate up, but we're not maxing our heart rate.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  So it's this kind of constant churn that can stimulate our metabolic system, our musculoskeletal system, our nervous system, our circulatory lymphatic system, our brains. So it's just kind of the, you know, it ignites our bodies.

• 11:38Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. One of the things I've done recently, I've been walking more and more over the last few years. I've recognized that, you know, how important it is. And we're currently recording this conversation in the British Spring. So we're having light mornings now. But I've actually changed my pattern recently because I know the number one thing I want to get in each day is a walk. Now, I personally am trying to get 10,000 steps a day. You know, I say that understanding that not everyone is going to be able to do that. But it's been transformative, you know, I get up, I have a coffee and I'm out.

• 12:19Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then I'm back to make the kids breakfast or whatever it might be, right? And even if I play paddle later on in the day, great, okay, no problem. Have fun, a lot of coordination, a lot of sprinting on the court. But it's not a substitute for your daily walk. You still need to get the daily walk in when you can.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  That's if there's one message, that is, that is it. That that is so important and it cannot be missed. And there's something very special about that morning walk. It just kicks off your day. You have sunlight, you get your body moving. I mean, it is, it does kind of, I do the same thing. And if I were to miss it, it does change, change things. I mean, when I was writing this, I consider myself a pretty active person. My whole career is built around movement.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  The changes in my life, in my lifestyle from researching this and writing it, I'm so grateful for because walking has taken on a whole new kind of meaning for me, even though activity has always been a part of my life. It continues to be this calming measure for me, this bringing me back to baseline. When I was writing and I'd get into, you know, I'd be challenged, right? Things weren't flowing, I'd go take a walk. You know, my creativity would improve. When I was stressed out, go take a walk. You know, so I was able to really think about the benefits and what it was doing for me.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  And it was really cool to see, to see what happened and to see how important it has become.

• 13:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. So we want to make this super accessible, okay? So I totally recognize that people may not have the same level of autonomy that I have around my work. Okay, they may have a lot of family commitments or family pressures. So I mentioned relationship walking. I know that you have said that this is one of the funnest bits of research you did when writing this book. What is it?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  When I was writing this book, my daughter is now 15. And for anybody who has a teenager out there, it's fun times, you know, it's a, we've certainly have had our challenges. But when she comes home from school, I can always tell what kind of mood she's in. Is she happy? Is she sad just by her gait, right? Like, is she, you know, excited to walk through the door? And I always will ask her, how was your day? Fine. How are your friends? Fine.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  What about your schoolwork? Fine. And I don't get a lot of, I don't get the answers that I'm quite looking for there. And even if we have dinner and I ask her these same questions. Fine, fine. Can you take me to Starbucks? That's usually what I, I get. And I started doing the research for this book and I said, gosh, Courtney, take your kid for a walk.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  And so I told her, I said, Addie,

• 15:26Speaker 01

  just give me 10 minutes. Just give me 10 minutes and then we won't have to, you know, we don't have to go through these questions. And I will tell you what, we started doing that after dinner. Within five minutes, this is no joke, that kid couldn't keep her mouth shut. She's telling me about her friends and about the boys and about her classes. And I'm like, it touched my heart so much, I was like, okay. Because when you get outside and there's this change of environment, you know, there's some research looking at maybe with the teenagers, it's eye contact where she can still be looking around, being stimulated by different things.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  But the activity, the increase in heart rate, the increase in brain, in blood flow, she really, really opened up. And it was mimicking exactly what I read in the research, which was relationship walking, you start to communicate a little bit differently. There's bonds that are created, walking with your spouse, walking with your grandparents. There's just fascinating research on this, which sounds, it makes sense, doesn't it? Like.

• 16:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  It totally makes sense and it kind of, it feeds back into this central idea that walking is a physiological necessity. You could even expand that and go, walking is a social necessity, a relational necessity. Because that research, you know, I think what you just described with your daughter, I think many people will have experienced. And there is, in your book, there's some really good research on relationships. And as a, you know, as a romantic couple, what going for a walk together a couple of times a week will do for your relationship. And again, it's pretty simple.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  It's free.

• 17:18Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's free. You just, you just got to do it.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 17:22Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  I read once

• 17:25Speaker 01

  that it's hard to have anxiety when you're looking out at an ocean, at the horizon. And I kind of think about that with walking too. It's hard to sustain being in a bad mood or to sustain being cranky when you're outside walking. It's hard. Because again, it's this input. Our brain is starting, we have neurotransmitters, we have all this action happening in our systems. And I think that's a really special thing that we have forgotten about.

• 17:58Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah. I want to get to some more of these walking cues. We previously spoke about this idea that all of us will have a different walking signature. It's unique, very much like a fingerprint. But despite that, what you're hoping to help your patients and therefore us with is improving our walking efficiency.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  What does walking efficiency mean?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  So as human beings, we were designed to walk upright, balanced for long distances. It should be, when you see someone walk, I love it. It's like, it's a window to their soul. It's like this neurological window and you can tell when they're happy or sad or in pain, if they just got fired, if they just got promoted, all in this signature of how they carry themselves and how they walk. I don't think we want to take away the uniqueness of someone's individual gait. It could also come with traumas or what have you. But what we do want to create is this efficiency. Because we should be able to very easily

• 19:10Speaker 01

  get to that magic step count number and feel well doing it. So when we look at efficiency, it's, you know, when I first look at someone when I'm assessing their gait, do they look comfortable? Do they look relaxed? Are they holding their breath? Are they stepping into a pothole on one side where they kind of look like they're tilting? Are they swinging their arms? Those are the, you know, big things that I take a look at to see how comfortable they are in their walking gait. And then I break it down into, if they aren't, where's the stone in the river?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  What's preventing this efficiency?

• 19:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Walk taller is something you write about when it comes to walking efficiency. What does that mean and why is it so beneficial?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  When we give people gait cues,

• 20:08Speaker 01

  you don't want them to think about too much. We can't have people thinking about, well, what's my heel supposed to be doing? Should I be pushing through my big toe? Should I be rotating my pelvis? Should I be internally rotating my hip? All of those things are true, but it's complex and you cannot have people overthinking this. Walking should be enjoyable.

• 20:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, you can't micromanage it in the moment.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  That's right. So the cue of walking taller, just trying to get your head towards the clouds. So many things happen with just that cue. For example, one of them is the use of your diaphragm. So it changes our posture. And we can start utilizing one of the most important core muscles, which is our diaphragm, to keep us upright. It enables better breathing. The other thing that can happen is it changes our strike. So when I have a tall posture, my foot is going to strike closer to my center of mass. That's what we want. It's this grazing of the heel.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  So when I say walk taller, there's all these biomechanical things that are occurring just from that cue that they don't, that someone doesn't need to think about other than walk taller.

• 21:20Rangan Chatterjee?

  This is great, Courtney, because I imagine there's going to be a lot of people listening who are very health conscious and have managed to create time in their day to walk more.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:31Rangan Chatterjee?

  But you're not necessarily saying you have to increase yourself. Let's say someone is getting 7,000 steps a day. It may be that, hey, keep doing that. You found the time for that. You've got that in a rhythm. Great. Now, during those 7,000 steps a day, try and roll the earth away. Try and walk a bit taller. So you're actually getting more out of those 7,000 steps.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 21:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  Today's the final day of your book promo trip to the UK, right? And interestingly, you've come with your mother.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right. So you've been in London for a few days, doing all kinds of cool stuff.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  Have you two been managing to walk a lot while she's been here?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  I'm so proud of her. She's 76 years old. She put in 13,000 steps yesterday.

• 22:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  Put it there. Fantastic.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  And, you know, but she's, she walks every day at home. She's in the gym a couple of times a week. But I was really proud of her because she, she put the steps in. And not to mention, the place that I'm staying in is on the fourth floor, which I didn't, I missed the, I missed the little fine print. So God bless her. She's had to walk up and down these stairs a million times. But yeah, so she was able, and she, you know, she said to me, she goes, if some of her friends were here, and in fact, she said, most of them, she's not sure they would be able to get to our flat.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Because they wouldn't be able to navigate the staircase, or have the power, or have the strength to do so. And that like broke my heart. That is one of the reasons why I wrote this book. So that people don't have to have those conversations when they get older. I can't go on this trip with my, with my daughter. I can't go on this trip with my grandkids because I'm afraid, or I won't be able to do things like walking up a flight of stairs.

• 23:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  But that is happening, Courtney. It's happening all over the shop. And there'll be people listening right now who, that story, like it a little bit, that for me makes you a bit tearful. Because, you know, I can't remember the last time I was able to do stuff like that with my mom.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:43Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it just highlights why the message in this book is so important, because so many people, they neglect their health throughout their life. They end up in their 70s, wondering, why can't I do that stuff anymore? Why can't I enjoy my grandchildren, or play with my children? And it, it didn't start in your 70s.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:03Rangan Chatterjee?

  It started many decades before that. That doesn't mean you can't undo problems. You can. It's never too late, but it's never too early also.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. When I was at the radio show yesterday, there was a gentleman there that ran the marathon. And I asked him, when he started running, he was older, and he goes, I didn't start running until I was 60. And he had just finished the marathon. So that was also like, I love having that conversation that it's never too late. It's never too late. Yes. Do you think, is it easier the earlier I start? Yeah. We want to avoid some of these problems. We want to take a proactive approach, not a reactive approach. And so I think it's hopeful on both ends. Like, there's no better time to start than now.

• 24:56Rangan Chatterjee?

  I really hope you enjoyed this week's Bite Size. Do spread the love by sharing this episode with your friends and family. And if you want more, why don't you go back and listen to the original full conversation with my guest. I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Make sure you have pressed subscribe. And I'll be back next week with my new conversation on Wednesday, and the latest episode of Bite Size next Friday.

• 25:26Rangan Chatterjee?

  I am really excited to share that I am bringing my Thrive Tour, Transform Your Health and Happiness, to Canada and Europe this September and November. It's a live, interactive, uplifting show that over 20,000 people came to last year across the UK and Australia. I'll be sharing powerful stories, life-changing insights, and simple tools that will inspire you to feel better, think clearer, and live with more intention and joy. To get your tickets right now and see all of the dates and venues, go to drchatterjee.com/live. I really hope that you can join me.