Pod Insights Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee BITESIZE | 3 Simple Habits to Reduce Stress and Optimise Your Mental Health | Dr Julie Smith #499 About this episode Today’s guest is known for her warm and friendly approach to helping us all build resilience. I think she’s brilliant at demystifying our thoughts, feelings and behaviours and encouraging small steps towards self-care.
Feel Better Live More Bitesize is my weekly podcast for your mind, body, and heart. Each week I’ll be featuring inspirational stories and practical tips from some of my former guests.
Today’s clip is from episode 263 of the podcast with Dr Julie Smith, a clinical psychologist, and author of the number one bestseller ‘Why Has No One Told Me This Before?’
Julie is passionate about making the tools of therapy accessible to everyone and, in this clip, she shares some simple practices that can help us look after our happiness and mental wellbeing.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:20 Rangan Chatterjee? See all details at drinkag1.com/livemore. Welcome to Feel Better Live More Bite Size, your weekly dose of positivity and optimism to get you ready for the weekend. Today's clip is from episode 263 of the podcast with Dr Julie Smith, clinical psychologist and author of the bestselling book, Why Has No One Told Me This Before? But Julie is passionate about making the tools of therapy accessible to everyone. And in this clip, she shares some simple practices that can help us all look after our happiness and our mental wellbeing.
2:07 Rangan Chatterjee? I've heard you say that if there was one practice you could prescribe to everyone in the world, it would be journaling. What is it you like so much about journaling? And are there some universal practices that, yes, we're all unique, we've all got different preferences, but are there some things that you've found time and time again that always seem to work with people? And I guess is journaling one of them.
2:29 Speaker 01 Yeah. And do you know, I guess for people who are able to access things like therapy or counselling and go to see someone and see that as something that's possible to them is fantastic. And there is so much potential in that. But there are also this huge group of people that don't see that as an option for them. Maybe they're just not able to talk about things. And so that's really where the idea of, you know, for everyone, actually, journaling is an option. And even when I think about back when I was really young, any time that I felt kind of full of emotion or something that I wasn't really clear on or able to understand, I would write stuff down. And I would always have that experience of you write for long enough and you get this kind of, oh, yeah,
3:12 Speaker 01 a bit of clarity on it. And actually, the process of just putting something down on paper is a helpful way to sort of diffuse from the thoughts. If you kind of, you know, get your thoughts out onto a page, you can see them for what they are sometimes. And just that process is helpful in itself.
3:29 Rangan Chatterjee? Yeah, I see journaling as having a conversation with yourself.
3:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:32 Rangan Chatterjee? That you're, it's very hard when you're in your thoughts and your mind to have that kind of, that detachment from it. So I think journaling is helpful. Values is something that's come up a couple of times in the conversation. There's a whole section in the book on values. You seem to me as someone who's very grounded, who knows what's important to them. And therefore, it helps you navigate, you know, all of these potential pitfalls. With a lot more self-assuredness, what are values? And when did you start going through that process of kind of trying to define what they were for you?
4:09 Speaker 01 Sure, so there's a therapy called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, so ACT for short. And a big aspect of that therapy is really looking at your own value system, what's important to you, what matters to you most in your life. And there are lots of different ways to kind of just literally kind of map it out. You can actually put on paper the different aspects of your life. So it might be health, family, intimate relationships, friendships, lifelong learning, career, whatever, creativity. And you can kind of put all of those different areas of your life on a page and just start to bullet point, what matters to me in that area of my life and why?
4:52 Speaker 01 And not what do I want to happen to me, but what kind of person do I want to be in the face of anything? So, you know, how do I want to come at this area of my life? What kind of attitude do I want to have? You know, what kind of friend do I want to be? What kind of partner do I want to be, or mother or father? And you get these kind of buzzwords or different kind of bullet points that just ring true for you as a person. You can just give it a number. You can rate, okay, how important is this area of my life to me? And you might say 10 out of 10, you know, it's so important. And then you can also rate, okay, how much do I feel like I'm living in line with those values at the moment?
5:37 Speaker 01 And if you rate it as high, then fantastic, you know, you're kind of doing well. And if you rate it as low, it's not necessarily an opportunity to be self-critical, but it's an opportunity to go, okay, that area of my life really matters to me, but I'm not living in line with the values that I hold around that. What what's pulling me away from that? What? Why am I not doing that at the moment? And how could I steer towards it so that that, you know, those numbers come closer together? And I say that's a really great way of kind of looking at your values and values are very different to goals. So a goal is something that once you get there, it's done. So a goal might be, I want to pass my exams. And when you pass your exams, you've done it and it's finished.
6:22 Speaker 01 But your value, you know, your reason for taking the exams might be because you always want to challenge yourself and learn as much as you can about the world. Okay. So the exam becomes a part of that path. So goals can pass you by. And sometimes mean less because they are part of the path. So, you know, you can overcome sort of failures and things along the way, if you've got a very clear value around it. Yeah.
6:49 Rangan Chatterjee? Do values change? Or are they always the same for people?
6:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely. They they change depending on what's going on in your life, what the situation is.
6:59 Speaker 01 You know, I could never have imagined that what my value system might have been like before I had children, you know, it changed virtually overnight.
7:07 Speaker 01 And that's okay. And actually, a conversation I was having a little while ago with someone was around what if I'd have known when I was younger, the values I needed to have in order to be okay and be happy and be successful? And and it's like, well, you could never have known that, you know, that, I don't know, fame or fortune wasn't going to bring you happiness. You had to experience that to then learn from it, to then adjust your value system. And so it's okay for values to change because
7:36 Speaker 01 a value system is neither correct nor incorrect. You know, it's not finding the perfect value system. It's working out what matters to you at that point in your life. So that's why I kind of advise people to keep doing the little check ins, you know, and and just go back to your values at any one point. Because I think a lot of people that come along to therapy, who have that sense of I don't know really what the problem is, but things just aren't enough. Things just don't feel right. And and so they can't really pinpoint that problem. And it's often because life has pulled them away from a set of values, for whatever reason. Um, that life has pulled them away from something that actually means a lot to them. Um, and so, um, I just find it really kind of valuable tool.
8:20 Rangan Chatterjee? I think this idea of values changing and that it's okay to change and there's no right or wrong. They're your values, right? You know, do they feel right to you? I think it's very empowering. And when I think of them changing, you can think of, certainly I can think of a couple of scenarios where, sure, as you mentioned, different stages in your life, like your values as a teenager may be different in your twenties or your thirties or your forties, right? So time wise, I think values can change. But even, even within, let's say, let's say one of your values is, I don't know, family and friends or relationships, nourishing close relationships, for example.
8:58 Rangan Chatterjee? And you know that's important to you and you score it as, you know, ten in importance. But when you look at it, you're like, well, I'm only giving it a two out of ten at the moment in terms of my time. But you may also go, yeah, but my job isn't going to be this busy forever. But for these three weeks, there's this kind of project that the whole company have been looking at for the last year. So yeah, for the next three weeks, I know it's going to stay a two. But as soon as this project's over, I'm going to get it back up to an eight or nine. Do you know what I mean? So I think it can change in many different ways and it comes back to awareness.
9:32 Speaker 01 And that's where it needs, it's so crucial that it doesn't become a tool for being self critical and getting down on yourself. It has to be a learning experience and a mapping out of your life. You know, am I in the place I want to be and being the person I want to be? And, and if not, how can I adjust? Because like you say, there are nuances, aren't there? And, and sometimes, you know, life will pull you away from different areas. And sometimes that's because that's the path and, and that's okay. So yeah, you've got to look at it with, always with curiosity rather than criticism and, and self attack.
10:06 Rangan Chatterjee? Are you able to articulate what some of your values are in life?
10:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think a key part of my values at the moment is around being the parent I want to be and that involves being present a lot of the time and how I can balance that. And come, you know, the kind of different values that people not might not kind of imagine are values. But one of my values over the last few years has been enthusiasm. So come at everything with some enthusiasm, whether it be my parenting or the work that I'm doing. And I don't always manage that, you know, it's not always, doesn't mean I do it perfectly and it's always there. But it's just a word I like to come back to because I find that really powerful. I love enthusiastic people and I'd love to experience being like that.
10:52 Speaker 01 So I kind of tried to keep that as whatever I'm doing, try to do it with some enthusiasm.
10:57 Rangan Chatterjee? It's a powerful word that, you know, as you said enthusiasm, I could feel my body language change. It is, it kind of evokes.
11:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:04 Rangan Chatterjee? A really good feeling, you know, because what I love about that as a value. And obviously it's unique to you, but I suspect there's going to be a lot of people listening or watching. Yeah, I quite, I might, I might take that for me, I might, I might borrow that one for, for me. But it's a value that you can apply. It's not dependent on your job or where you are in life. It's something you can, you know, it goes across everything. So you can be enthusiastic with the barista at the cafe. You can be enthusiastic when you're making a video. You'd be enthusiastic with your kids like it's, it's kind of, as you said before, the number of followers you've got is not who you are. But I guess your values are kind of who you are, right?
11:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, there, there are, there are sort of a vision in your mind of who you want to be and how you want to come at life. Whether that's a, you know, a good or bad situation for you.
11:59 Speaker 01 So yeah, it's almost like a sort of something to hold on to. And I, I like to kind of see it as a path. So it never ends. It's not done, it's never done perfectly and it's never complete. It's just this, a never ending path that you always try to stay as close to as possible. As you, you know, go through your sort of journey of life, as it were. And, and sometimes you'll be pulled away from that, you know, maybe your health will, you know, fluctuate or something awful will happen in your life and it will completely pull you away from that. And, and it's always about. You know, repeatedly reevaluating and trying to steer back towards it when you can.
12:37 Rangan Chatterjee? Yeah. One of the funnest parts of the book for me was when you described you as a trainee clinical psychologist and you guys were being taught mindfulness. And I think you were talking about how skeptical you were. You thought, there's no way I could do this. There's no way I'm going to talk about this with people who come to see me and help. And then you explained how you once went running and how it completely changed your perspective on it. So maybe let's dive into mindfulness. What is it? Why were you so skeptical? And how was it useful for people? Tell me a little bit about that experience.
13:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it was exam season, stress was high. I was just full of kind of, oh, I should be doing this. Oh, I've got to do that when I get back and da, da, da. And I could feel the stress. And I thought, do you know what? I'm just going to try. I'm just going to see if this will help. I'm just going to, you know, try and be mindful. So I focused my mind on the sound of my feet on the gravel path. It was just that crunch and crunch and crunch sound as I went along. And my mind left that sound a thousand times, you know? I would think, oh, that email I've got to reply to, or I need to do more original on that. And I haven't added that to my, whatever. You know, my mind went off to lots of stressful things. And each time I just brought it back. And because I was moving my body and I was outdoors
13:54 Speaker 01 and there was lots to bring me to the present and the sound as well of my feet on the gravel, I was able to keep doing that. And then by the time I got back, I noticed that I had spent that run focusing on the present. You know, obviously there were those little moments where my mind would go off. But actually, I had more time feeling calmer and focused on the here and now than I would have done if I'd had just gone through my to do list while I was running. Mindfulness is that process of staying in the present. So observing the thoughts that come into your mind, not trying to stop having any. A lot of people think that mindfulness is the ultimate in concentration. And if you, I don't know, if you're trying to be mindful of this glass,
14:38 Speaker 01 that the minute your attention is not on that glass, you've failed and you've got mindfulness wrong. And it's really not that. It's, you know, your mind will wander to this thought and that thought. And it'll bring up stories and memories and it'll hear the car outside or all that kind of thing. Mindfulness is noticing that your mind has gone somewhere and then guiding your attention back. So I love to think of mindfulness as a spotlight. So if you say, you know, your mind is a theatre and actors are, you know, your thoughts. So different actors will come on stage. You can't control who's coming on stage or how long they're going to be there. But all you have is the spotlight.
15:15 Rangan Chatterjee? Yeah.
15:15 Speaker 01 And you can choose which ones you're going to focus on and for how long. And so mindfulness is that process of choosing what you're going to focus your attention on and allowing everything else to come and go. And yeah, when we were trainees, and it's almost embarrassing now to even think that we behave like that. You know, we were supposed to be so open minded, but it really makes you think this is really difficult stuff to teach people because it does give you that sense of, well, this sounds really weird and not helpful at all. And I absolutely had those judgments in the beginning. And it was only once I started using it that I had that, oh, right. Yeah, this is helpful
15:57 Speaker 01 moment. And that's when I thought, oh, yes, I had these little micro moments of peace. And actually, mindfulness isn't about making you feel calm and peaceful. It's not a relaxation exercise. It's practicing that sort of mental muscle, if you like, to be able to choose which thoughts you're going to pay attention to and which ones you're going to let pass. And that is an incredible skill to be able to utilize.
16:21 Rangan Chatterjee? Hope you enjoyed that bite sized clip. Do spread the love by sharing this episode with your friends and family. And if you want more, why not go back and listen to the original full conversation with my guest. If you enjoyed this episode, I think you will really enjoy my bite sized Friday email. It's called the Friday Five. And each week I share things that I do not share on social media. It contains five short doses of positivity, articles of books that I'm reading, quotes that I'm thinking about, exciting research I've come across, and so much more. I really think you're going to love it. The goal is for it to be a small, yet powerful dose of feel good to get you ready for the weekend.
17:03 Rangan Chatterjee? You can sign up for it free of charge at drchattity.com forward slash Friday Five.
17:10 Rangan Chatterjee? I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back next week with my long form conversation on Wednesday and the latest episode of Bites Science next Friday.
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