#590 - Stockport Ken Bruce, Decade Dice and Bancyfelin is a Major Metropolis

Elis couldn’t use his favourite spoon this morning and he’s all over the shop. He also had to walk around a lot of leaves. How can he broadcast in such a state? But it’s fine because he’s very much in his mid-forties. On the John front, the recriminations from last week’s revelations continue to spill over and we also ask whether Dave is the Ken Bruce of podcasting. Is he Tony Blackburn? Or is he Chandler from Friends applying for a job in marketing? Plus there’s an all time Mad Dad featuring second hand gravity boots, a wetsuit and a semi-naked Dad. Got something to sling us? Well [email protected] mailto:[email protected] is where to send it. And do check out the new EXCLUSIVE TO PATREON Adventure: Dancing with Dave special! https://www.patreon.com/elisandjohn/posts/adventure-8-with-171689255?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link For lots of exclusive EJJR #content, join our Patreon at patreon.com/elisandjohn. For weekly visual highlights, head to youtube.com/@elisandjohn. For everything else, head to elisandjohn.com. Elis James & John Robins is a Significant Production. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:25Speaker 03

  Hello, thank you very much for downloading this episode of Ellis and John. We're recording on a Thursday, so I'm all out of whack.

• 1:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  Usually it's a Friday in the day, but it's now, I'm gonna say Thursday early evening slash late afternoon.

• 1:40Speaker 04

  Mid afternoon.

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Okay, it's the afternoon. And I'm, I don't know what to say. I'm not sure I like it. It feels like I'm, I'm past my bedtime.

• 1:49Speaker 04

  Well.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Slightly discombobulated.

• 1:51Speaker 04

  Is this just the effect of aging? Is this what happens when you reach a certain age? I'm not there yet.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:59Speaker 04

  Dave's not there yet. But I have read a lot of studies recently that those in their late 40s do get out of whack quite easily when their routine changes.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  It's important to keep their routine the same.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And do you know what? My favourite spoon was in the dishwasher this morning and I had to use a bad spoon. And I haven't really been the same all day.

• 2:21Speaker 04

  Which is why when, if and when you go into a home, they will, you'll have to sort of make it up to look like your house.

• 2:28Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. And I had to, and I had to walk my son to school, but there were lots of leaves and I had to walk, I didn't walk on the usual bit of pavement that I normally like.

• 2:39Speaker 04

  And the leaves reminded you of the 50s, didn't they?

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Yes, they did. And they reminded me of better places as well.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  They did.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  None of us are in our late 40s, are we, John?

• 2:47Speaker 04

  Oh dear, Dave.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I would still say 46 is mid.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Oh, no, you're over that little mini hill.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  Not if a decade is a dice.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  But it's not.

• 2:58Speaker 04

  But if it was.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  But I would say late is 47, 48, 49.

• 3:03Speaker 04

  That feels convenient.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  Mid is 44, 45. Well, I will accept that I'm in my late 40s when I hit my late 40s. Otherwise I'm dead.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Well, you're in your 47th year.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Yes. I would say 44, 45, 46 is mid 40s. And I would say 40, 41, 42, 43 is early.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  I think 45 is mid 40s. 40 to 44 is early.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  Um, 40.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  So you just get one year.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, the midpoint.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  You just get one year in your mid 40s.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  Because four isn't in the middle of zero and 10, is it? Last time I checked.

• 3:36Speaker 03

  He's blumming right.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  He's got you there.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. All right, I'm in my 40s. Eating is a privilege and I'm glad.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Which is our way of saying happy birthday.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Oh, we love you, Ellis.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  He turned 46 and entered his 47th year last week. And if I know Ellis, it's been, well, a month of parties.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 04

  It's been weeks and weeks of planning and celebrations.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  Tuesday was a big old day. So I was 46 on Tuesday. And the thing I really wanted to do, I wanted to do two things. I went to go for breakfast with Izzy.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  And go on your phone for half an hour.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  No, I wanted to go for breakfast with Izzy and I wanted to play comedians' football on the Tuesday. Unfortunately, those two things don't dovetail very happily because we went to a very old fashioned place for breakfast and it did affect my game, John, because I ate too much haggis and too many deviled kidneys.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  Ooh, you do remember the 50s.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  And deviled kidneys, which I'd never had before, are delicious, but it's not, not a pre-match meal.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  That's what Stanley Matthews was probably having before he played for.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was very Stanley Matthews. So I had, I had a duck egg, a fried haggis.

• 4:49Speaker 04

  Some pork.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  And deviled kidneys.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  Partridge.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  A potted pigeon. No, but I did have the deviled kidneys and around big.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  What's the deviling element?

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Spices and this particular place does them in Worcestershire sauce. It is, it's like a 19th century dish.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Is that to cover the taste of urine?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  Uh, that's what Robins, that's what lovely Robins said.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 5:16Speaker 03

  No, well, maybe. I've never had kidneys on their own. I've only ever had them deviled.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  My friend Carl Chappell, friend of the show, listens to the show. I remember him talking to me about deviled kidneys, but I'd never even heard of them. And he was looking for a good deviled kidneys recipe. And I saw them on the menu and I thought, I've just got to do it.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  So where was this? At like Hapsford's?

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Basically, yeah, there's a place called Simpsons in the Strand.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  Oh, I've heard of that.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it hasn't changed.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  They serve like sort of lamb's tongue.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Um, no.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  And sort of ox tusks.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  It's mainly famous for roasted meat and the fact that the decor hasn't changed since 1828.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know the kind of place.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Dickens used to eat there and Winston Churchill and Disraeli used to eat there. And the menu remained unchanged for a very long time. But it is, you are eating in a time capsule, but everyone there is very, very nice. Their porridge is excellent, but I saw deviled kidneys on the menu and I thought, I can't resist.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  It's a real sort of mix. Dining at Simpsons for playing five-a-side. I don't think Dickens would have gone on to play five-a-side or T20.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  No, but Dickens would now be writing about five-a-side because he was interested in how normal people spend their days. Oliver Twist would be at Power Leagues.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  If it's true that exercise is good for you, which I'm sure it is, how wasn't everyone dead in the past?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  We could die earlier.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  But Dickens lived to a ripe old age and he wasn't doing CrossFit.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Well, obviously, well, but people didn't live sedentary lifestyles. Everything, it was a lot of incidental exercise because you tended to have physical.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  But they weren't doing incidental burpees.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 7:02Speaker 04

  They were walking a lot.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  But yeah, walking a lot. And they were, life was a more physical enterprise.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  Catching your Christmas goose.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, or et cetera, et cetera. And like no public, no sort of, you weren't driving anywhere. You weren't sitting down all day. So you were working.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Well, they'd have been in a handsome cab.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's a very small proportion of, of people living in. I mean, the, the, those were the people eating potted pigeon at Simpsons in the Strand.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  So when was Simpsons in the Strand?

• 7:30Speaker 03

  1828 was first, is, is when it became Simpsons in the Strand. It was something before that, I think.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  That's quite cool. I like going to places like that because you do just feel, you can feel the history.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  But I had a big old, and a massive pot of coffee, and then I felt ready. And then on the train to the game, I thought, no, I don't feel like eating.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Was it coffee from 1822 as well or was it modern coffee?

• 7:51Speaker 03

  No, the coffee was more modern. But so I had to go in goal for half an hour. Because I was too full. But I made a Lazarus-like recovery second half. I scored four goals. Every time I scored, people would sing Happy Birthday. And that felt good.

• 8:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, you'll get one more happy birthday to add to the list because we've got a couple of presents.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Oh, have you?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  The present was his.

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Oh, that's very kind.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  First off is a premier in rubber duck.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Thank you very much. I thought, I thought that was a ring. I thought John had bought me a wedding ring. Thank you very much.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Oh, look at that, the wrapping paper matches your t-shirt colour, John. Wow, that is crazy because it's not the most obvious colour. It's like a lovely, what is it?

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Jade.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Hmm, no, you'd call that a tourmaline?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Well, we're not getting into colours again because you lot poo-pooed my mauve suggestion last week. We went on the blumming website of Ellis's worker jacket. What colour was it? mauve. So.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  I'm very excited about this box.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Good.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  This is very exciting.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  It's well wrapped by Michael, who was very confident, very confident with his wrapping this morning, as he was saying he was wrapping him for us.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  It's, it's a Welsh jigsaw.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  For when I'm in the home.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  No, jigsaw's good now.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  No, come on, come on, mate.

• 9:15Speaker 04

  It will protect against cognitive decline.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does. Protect against cognitive, it's an amazing cartoon of Wales.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great, isn't it?

• 9:25Speaker 03

  Richard, I can't read it, it's because my eyesight's gone around my old age.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  My dad loves a jigsaw.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  What's that say there? My god. The founder of the Peace Union.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Get a blanket.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  I've got my specs, I have got my specs.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  You have got your specs on, they're on your head, Ellis.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  Great, well, when I eventually do this jigsaw, and I'll be able to read all of the great people on it. Do what I could do, I could take a photo of this and then pension it in large.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  What you need is one of those tray tables with a big magnifying glass.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:57Speaker 04

  Older people read under.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  Yes, and then, oh, sorry, there's this one as well, very kind.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Now, I don't know what this, I don't know what this could be.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  What did your kids get you for your birthday?

• 10:10Speaker 03

  They made me, they made me very funny, they made me very funny cards, and then they wrote a little play and performed that. And then as part of my gift, I made them watch Portsmouth Three Swansea City One. The last 10 minutes, we were a shambles. And as part of my gift, I made Izzy cook me cockles and larva bread.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  So I had quite a rich.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Is that the same day as The Simpsons?

• 10:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  It's nice to have experiences, though, for your birthday.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I struggled with scale here a little bit, because this is absolutely massive.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Well, what is it?

• 10:44Speaker 04

  It needs to be.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  It needs to be, but.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I wouldn't be able to read it otherwise.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  I don't think it's going to be this big, but it's a lovely big map of Wales.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  That is the biggest map Wales I've ever seen.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  It's a two to one scale.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  This is, this is bigger than the ones.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  This is bigger than Wales.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  You get at big train stations.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  It is, unfortunately, sorry.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  So. I saw an extremely agitated bloke rip a map off a wall at a train station the other day.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Were you able to rip that? Because it's laminated.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  It's laminated.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  Oh, Slancardog, I had a friend from Slancardog. And I'm glad I was driving through there and wonder what it's like.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  So that's going to be on display here.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Garnet, Garnet, that's where John Kayle's from.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  We want this to help you as well as for you to enjoy it, Ellis.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Oh, my god, it's got a Stradivaste on it.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I asked for that.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Big old map.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I requested.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  Has it also got some of England on it?

• 11:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, Kidderminster, Stafford.

• 11:36Speaker 04

  That's weird, isn't it?

• 11:38Speaker 01

  It's very hard to find a Welsh map that is just separated as Wales.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  It always shows English.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Witness, well, we've got a very porous border, Dave, you know that.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  No, I know, but.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  It's got Sanurin on it. Good grief.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  So what's that city top right?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  It's Liverpool.

• 11:54Speaker 04

  It's quite weird that a map of Wales has got Liverpool on it.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  It's got Stanfyrbrugga on it.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  So why has it got Liverpool on it?

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Well, because Liverpool's right next to Wales, you complete piece of beef.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I know, but would you not, if you're a stylistic designer of maps, go, do you know what I'll do? Let's pretend it's just, let's pretend Wales is an island, so make it look nice and stylistic, rather than just England encroaching on the right hand side constantly.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  This map is so big and detailed, it implies that Bank of Elin is a major metropolis.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Is it not?

• 12:21Speaker 03

  No, well, you know.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Well, it has to be detailed when it's that big.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  Otherwise it would be too empty.

• 12:28Speaker 03

  It's got Sinodin, my friend had his first cigarette in Sinodin.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  So you can actually draw on this map, Ellis?

• 12:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, with a, with a, with a.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  With a non-perm. Absolutely, I've, I've never seen a detailed map with in my life.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  He's blown his mind.

• 12:42Speaker 04

  So will we, will we put that on a foam backing, Dave, or will we roll it up?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Well, would you, how would this help you, Ellis?

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Or frame it?

• 12:48Speaker 01

  We could, well, then you can't, you can't write on it first.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  It's got Llanwylwyn, that's where the, that's where Eric Ramsay, who was briefly coach Wales and is now in America, I think, was, and was an assistant coach to Eric Sandhag.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  But this is good, Dave, this is what we need to encourage, he's actually.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  He's warming up, yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  He's revising.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  I can't believe it's got Llanwylwyn on it, that is absolutely mad.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  So I think we, we maybe put it on a board and we hide it, well, not hide it, we just put it somewhere to the side when we're not doing the Cymru connection, but when we are, Ellis, I mean.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  It's got.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Wales is your oyster.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Ruwabon's on.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 13:23Speaker 03

  That's where Marquise is born. Ruwabon is in.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  And safe.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  And Mostyn.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Let's leave Ellis to his revision.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  I could look at that all day.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Great.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  That's good.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  And also, you do like Liverpool, so that's there as well.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  It's got the Great Orme in Llan, didn't it?

• 13:44Speaker 04

  I'd run round that.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, we run round that. Well, you did all of it, and I did the first 4K, because I'd not been for a run for six years.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  What's an administrative region that they've listed at the top there? Administrative regions.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  They've got 22 administrative regions, but eight historical counties.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  How do you know that?

• 14:02Speaker 04

  Wait till you hear my intro on Tuesday. I must have Googled that for so many shows.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  How many counties are in Wales?

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Blackburn with Darwin, St Helens, Knowlesley, Liverpool, Warrington, Trafford, Salford, Manchester and Tyneside.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  But none of those are in Wales.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  No, but.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  It's a confusing old map, isn't it, of Wales, when it's listing places in England?

• 14:23Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, it's, it's got, it's got Cornwall on it, Dave.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  And Bristol.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, Bristol.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Well, that's it for that.

• 14:31Speaker 04

  Well done, everyone, that's good training session, well done.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  It's got Thornbury on it.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Good, so let's hit the chat, Ellis.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:36Speaker 04

  Really?

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Now he's interested.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  I didn't know Thornbury was there.

• 14:39Speaker 04

  Has it got Alveston on it?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Surely not, not.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Well, I don't really know where to look for them.

• 14:44Speaker 04

  Oh, no, no, no, it's got Ridgeway on it. I used to smoke fags with my friend at school, he lived there.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Did you say that nailsy?

• 14:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, nailsy.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Right, so I've lost both of you, is it just me blundering while?

• 14:56Speaker 04

  And, and Stone and Charfield, bloody heck, Perton, I used to go down to Perton with my dad, because there's loads of boats stuck in the mud, and we stole an ammonite. And then returned it the next week.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Can you steal an ammonite?

• 15:10Speaker 04

  It was on a, like, barge, it was on the exterior of a barge, it was like next to a barge.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  So it wasn't from the ground?

• 15:17Speaker 04

  No, it was like a decorative ammonite, I feel so guilty now.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Then you, you can't, that was.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  I stole it to look at and take it to school and then I took it back.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  We had ammonites, I found them in the ground when I was about 10.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Take a picture of you with your big map, Ellis, you got your big plate, Alan.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  What, my big map of Blackburn? Thanks, Dave, you know me so well. Look at that.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Oh, look at that, gives a smile on your birthday, big birthday boy in your late 40s, there we go.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  So Ellis's birthday and many happy returns, but we do have your correspondence to get through, this is.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  It's got Pontred Van Deegide, I mean, this, sorry, Dave.

• 15:55Speaker 04

  Don't be sorry, I'm both.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  You don't know what you've done.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Say thank you, Dave, is what you want to say.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Have you ever heard the phrase from the mouths of babes? Have you ever heard the phrase, only children can get into heaven? I'm paraphrasing, but that's probably something like that.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Whilst they're still innocent.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  I mean, that's not actually true as well, they need to be christened, don't they?

• 16:16Speaker 04

  Ever, have you ever heard the phrase, the wisest man in the world is but two years old?

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Uh, I tell you what I have, I know exactly which email you're referring to, and these are kids from Powys, and they've got an agenda against me.

• 16:32Speaker 04

  Have you ever heard the phrase?

• 16:34Speaker 03

  And their little village isn't on my big map, which I think speaks volumes.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  And they're insignificant to Ellis.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Have you ever heard the phrase?

• 16:44Speaker 03

  I thought it was tosh.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  I would say, Dave.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  You haven't heard my next phrase, have you ever heard the phrase?

• 16:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  I met some of the wisest people on earth yesterday, and I looked out of the window, and I could see the Houses of Parliament from where I was, because I was in a nursery.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  What?

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Carrier, what, we?

• 17:09Speaker 03

  What, a nursery next to the Houses of Parliament?

• 17:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was invited there.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  With permission, good.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, you were invited to a school?

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Yes, to give a talk on wisdom to fellow like-minded wise people.

• 17:22Speaker 04

  And, and we could see the Houses of Parliament.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Did you smash them at Boggle?

• 17:26Speaker 04

  Uh, and that's because we weren't there, yeah, this is an email that says, Chansilio.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Chansilio, yeah, not on the big map.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Chansilio Church in Wales School posted the following clip, which canvassed the opinion of pupils in Class Three on the inverted commas alleged cheating scandal that's rocked the nation. Let's hear what the class said.

• 17:48Speaker 05

  I don't think John cheated, because you never said anything about putting your index finger on the cup. Actually, I think it's quite clever. I think he did cheat because he put his finger in the cup, and that ruins the whole game, because he used his other senses. I don't think John cheated, because they would have said, you're not allowed to put your finger in the cup, but they didn't.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  I don't think he cheated because he did, he didn't take his blindfold off, or Anna never said that you can't put your finger on inside of the cup.

• 18:25Speaker 05

  I think he did cheat because it's ruining the spirit of the game, because if you put your finger in it, it's basically like not having a blindfold. I think he's cheated, because if you put your finger in the glass to feel the water, the coke, it defeats the whole purpose of putting the blindfold on. I don't think he cheated, I think he just, like, he just outsmarted them, because he kept the blindfold on.

• 18:49Speaker 04

  That's the heart of it, that gets the absolute heart of it, outsmarted. So that's interesting, and because they're children, because we love our kids, don't we? You love your kids, Dave?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  I love my kids, yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Ellis, you love your kids?

• 19:02Speaker 03

  I love some kids.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  So therefore, their message is final.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Now.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  I like this from the University.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Well, on the, on the kids, just before we move on from the kids, there's a head boy and a head girl at that school.

• 19:16Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  And I think it is telling that both head boy and head girl both considered you to be a big old fat cheat.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Were you head boy?

• 19:24Speaker 04

  No such thing in our school.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  No, there wasn't in ours. Really? Oh, we had a head boy.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  But I was student representative on the student council.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  And was that a voluntary position?

• 19:35Speaker 04

  Yes, it was.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  It wasn't paid.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  No, no, but I mean, did you volunteer to do it?

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Yes, and there was an election, and I won, and then I won again in sixth form.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  He wins again, he was winning.

• 19:44Speaker 04

  I was the sixth form representative on the student committee, and I would have stood by me now, if it was me then.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  But so, so head boy and head girl both thought John was a cheat, however, on the flip side.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Regard as being too much of a loose cannon, not my words, the words of my cookery teacher.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Is it not because you couldn't be asked?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I was head of house.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  For any Abramadon alumni, I was penitentiary.

• 20:10Speaker 04

  What house was it? The Doss House?

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Good stuff.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  No, Hengood, Hengood, Old Court, I think.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Anyway, to finish on the kid stuff, 60, 40 in favour of John, I think, percentage wise.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  From the mouths of babes comes the wisdom of angels.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  The tide is in trouble.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  And here endeth the Lord's lesson.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  The tide has turned over the last seven days a touch.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  Blessed be the innocent bairns of the land.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  Good morning, gents. Not in the mood for a silly introduction today. It's John Zett again. Last week's made up game has besmirched his record and quite frankly upset me. I'm emailing regarding his comment in Tuesday's episode that the Open University would encourage outside the box thinkers and people who solve problems in unusual and inventive ways. As someone who's currently studying with the Open University, I took offence to this. As there's a strict academic conduct policy, but you knew that, didn't you, John?

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you're an Enri fellow?

• 21:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I also adhered to the policy of the game, which was to fill up the glass with, whilst wearing a blamed food.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Imagine if I went into an exam and cheated, I'd be barred from the university and stripped of my titles. While not technically against those of the game, I believe there is a code of conduct and a code of ethics when going into each made up game, which John has not followed. So said Dr John Robins, PhD, what happens now? Regards, Lord Dr Joseph. Since apparently titles mean nothing anymore.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  What a shame. And I will make some calls to the Open University and have your record expunged.

• 21:40Speaker 03

  This, this made me laugh because it's such a massive amount of money.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Let me find it. Hello, my tax efficient treasures. After the global backlash to John's mug, poor judgement gameplay, I was compelled to find a suitable outcome. I'm pleased to say that there is a precedent and as a Leeds fan, it's similar. It's Spygate 2.0. In 2019, Marcelo Bielsa's staff spied on rival training sessions, coming to a head when one was caught in the bushes watching Derby County. Great football story.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Is that 2019?

• 22:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, mad. I thought it was about six months ago.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  The pundits had a field day. At the measured end, Mauricio Pochettino, it's not a big deal. At the other end, Dean Ashton, they must lay down a marker. He has shown no remorse whatsoever. Importantly, the official inquiry found no breach of the rules at play, but did find the behaviour against the game's utmost good faith. The result, a 200 grand fine. So Dave, are we going to fine him? 200 grand. No points deductions, no disqualifications, certainly no retraction of any honorary degrees that I've been hearing so much about this time. John's penchant for bending the rules, lip reading, drawing seven inch vinyls shows a pattern of behaviour. If it continues, it should be met with more serious punishment. Dave, as my arbiter of the made up game, you must oversee a tightening of the rules

• 22:59Speaker 03

  to avoid a Tonda Ecker style situation in years to come. For the sake of the podcast, BBC Sounds and Britain's stature on the global stage. A full frank admission and heartfelt apology should suffice, but can John bring himself to do the right thing?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Never.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Thanks to the laughs of the Stephen Kent.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Is there, is there an apology forthcoming?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  200 grand fine sounds about right.

• 23:21Speaker 04

  Well, I was just going to go back and read some of the emails Ellis skipped, if that's okay.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  It's so similar to the underarm bowling incident of 1981, because they hadn't, they hadn't broken the rules.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  I've just invented swing bowling and you can't handle it.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  You've invented the bouncer.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, which is legal.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  But, you know, it was, it was pretty controversial in 1932.

• 23:44Speaker 04

  Changed the game. Pretty popular now. Everyone's going to be doing it in 10 years time.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, I'd be doing, I'd, I'd be using my finger to pour out coke next time.

• 23:51Speaker 04

  This is from Barb in Connecticut. She says, hello, my overly ethical oddballs. Just this morning, whilst outrunning errands, I was lamenting how disappointed I was that Ellis went over on his coke pouring challenge. I'm a listener, so I only heard the episode. Having had eye problems at various points in my life, the common sense solution that I have used is to keep a pinky at the edge of the glass. This is the only way to successfully handle this challenge. I do not see a problem with this at all and was relieved to hear that John was intelligent enough to enable all available senses. Was listening to the fizz considered cheating? Great question, Barb. Great.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Was what?

• 24:29Speaker 04

  Was listening to the fizz.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I know we had a lot of this.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  The action of a legal at the time was nevertheless widely perceived as being wholly against the traditional spirit of cricketing fair play.

• 24:43Speaker 04

  Sorry, Barb in Connecticut, Ellis doesn't care about you.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  No, I don't actually, Barb, because I think you're wrong.

• 24:46Speaker 04

  I was equally baffled by the outpouring of negative responses. This unnecessary outrage is disappointing and I believe people need to learn how to think more creatively and act more practically.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  Richie Benno described the act as disgraceful and said it was one of the worst things I've ever seen on a cricket field. As the ball was being bowled, Ian Chappell, elder brother of Greg and Trevor.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think this helps the cause, actually.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Was shouted out, no Greg, no, you can't do that. I mean, that's.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  No, John, no, you can't do that.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Should bring it back to this controversy.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  It's not, no, I mean, there are no punishments from my side, just because it's, it has divided opinion.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  He'll give the 200 grand to charity. He'll give a little bit of cash to charity, won't you, John?

• 25:27Speaker 04

  I made a terrible error with a charitable gift last, in last financial year.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  Okay, okay. I mean, it's, it's for the benefit of the world.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  But just in terms of my personal record keepings, there was an oversight.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  Couple of, couple of decimal places missing. But good, and I'm glad.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I think it's, it's, it's caught the imagination of the nation, hasn't it?

• 25:58Speaker 04

  It has. They're probably imagining whether they want us to stop talking about it soon.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Who?

• 26:05Speaker 04

  The nation. Is that what they're imagining?

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're imagining, I'm not sure where else we take this at this stage, but it's been, it's been interesting, hasn't it, Al?

• 26:13Speaker 04

  It's been emotional.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Interesting and emotional.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  Can't wait for the next made up game.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, lessons have been learnt.

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Was it noughts and crosses?

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 27:05Speaker 06

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• 27:48Speaker 06

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• 28:18Speaker 01

  Hi folks, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman and I'm here to suggest that you host Thanksgiving with industry leading quality standards from Whole Foods Market. There are, as usual, no antibiotics ever in their meat department, so carve up turkey and spiral cut ham with peace of mind. Shop organic sides like stuffing mix and cranberry sauce from 365 brand. And guess what? All of their fabulous delectable pies are made with no high fructose corn syrup. Where else are you going to find that? Gourmet Thanksgiving flavours with the quality you want. Only at Whole Foods Market.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  How do we get into it?

• 29:04Speaker 01

  It's, I think, just welcome to the ring fence. Exciting news. I think let's start with Dancing with Dave. Towards the end, we can also mention, plus there is other content up there this week, which is meringues and Halloween.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  So it's just a big old bumper week of fun videos, but the main thing is Dancing with Dave.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Right, okay. Don't say we never give you anything because we've got a bumper week of giveaways on the Patreon.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  What?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  That's good, isn't it?

• 29:31Speaker 03

  It is. It's just the exact opposite of the way I asked you to do it, but that's fine. Yeah, dude. I take your suggestions and I do the opposite, dude.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fine. You're a flair player. You're Ken Clancy. It's all right.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  It's like a black hole, Dave.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  You come out as sort of spaghetti in another time.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  I literally said, let's just focus on Dancing with Dave because the adventure thing is a big thing. At the end of talking about, yeah, yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Oh, right. Sorry. I was thinking about my big map.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  I can't not think about my big map.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  So we can throw in a couple of other things that we've done as little bonuses. Seconds later, well, bumper week on Patreon with three massive. But do I, do I review?

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Three massive giveaways.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Not giveaways, no. What's the adventures app that's landed today, Ellis? What have we released today?

• 30:22Speaker 03

  Dancing with Dave at Brighton.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  It is.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  And my God, it's a lot of fun. George Egg, of course, makes an appearance hugely emotional moment near the end.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  There is.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  No spoilers.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Tearjerker.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  A real tearjerker that would be, that will never get, will never replicate, never happen again.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  No, we would never want to try, I think.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  No, no, absolutely not.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  It's a lovely one off.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  It's an awful, but can I get to the giveaways, Dave?

• 30:46Speaker 01

  No, I don't, I don't know.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Well. Because my God, we've made some content out of those blimmin' meringues.

• 30:56Speaker 04

  That's nothing to do with the meringues, you ape.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  It wasn't a difficult sell, this.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  You were, you were, Dave, Dave. You try thinking about meringues and a big map. It can't be done.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  You don't need to think about meringues, yeah. We'll come to that at the end. Take them out of your mind.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Right. But the map's gone back in now.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  John, can you, what's going on with Dancing with Dave? That is out now, isn't it?

• 31:23Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, Dave, when I steer this ship back on course, we're headed direct for we're giving away two crap aprons.

• 31:32Speaker 04

  That's the problem.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  We are, no, do you know what? We are going to give away the blimmin' aprons. You're going to sign them. You're going to like it.

• 31:41Speaker 04

  We're going to sign them.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  And you're going to like it. And we'll see, because John has an opinion that no one wants the tatty aprons from the Dancing with Dave app that you cooked fish pasties in with George Egg.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  I didn't say they were tatty. I said they were tat.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Tat, tacky.

• 31:52Speaker 04

  They're in good condition.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  They are in good condition.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  John.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  One, one.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  Has an absolutely fantastic knack for nailing things.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  He did one, and he texted me the other day that I'm not going to mention, but I will mention to you off air.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  But, but I was like, oh my God, I've been wondering about that for 10 years and he's nailed it in sentence.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  His classic two, I would say on this show, are describing an attic as a bin you live under. And some gifts, what you were really doing is giving a problem to the person, to the receiver.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  And that's what he said about sending aprons.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  But that's an incurate.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Signed aprons.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  We're not giving a problem to anyone. They're going to enter to see if they want, if they want the apron, they'll enter. If they don't, they won't enter. So we're not giving them a problem. We're giving them prized possessions that they want.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  What if they enter by mistake, Dave?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Ow, would that happen?

• 32:46Speaker 03

  Your finger slips.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  So if you want to win one of two novelty aprons as worn and signed by Ellis and I, head over to Patreon and just tell us which song you'd like to play to get everyone dancing.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  What song you would play at a Dancing with Dave?

• 33:01Speaker 03

  But not Halloween themed. We're not going to get lots of people saying Monster Mash.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  No, because it wasn't a Halloween themed Dancing with Dave.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, why have you brought Halloween into it?

• 33:09Speaker 03

  I thought Joe mentioned Halloween.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  It's gone insane.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  I'm thinking about my map again.

• 33:14Speaker 04

  Imagine if we were still on the live radio.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  We would have done more prep ahead of time, I think.

• 33:21Speaker 04

  That's true. We'd have a script.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  We would have a script. But I thought this was all right, but understandably.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  Dave, I cannot improvise when I've got maps on the mind.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  So, the Dancing with Dave app, by the way, is a fantastic app.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  It is great.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  It's superb.

• 33:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, brilliant job.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  That is out now at patreon.com/ellisonjohn.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  And there's also bonus videos of me and Ellis.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Wait, wait. Yes, there is. But should we, should we listen to a little bit of the fun that was had at Brighton Dome?

• 33:44Speaker 04

  Please.

• 33:57Speaker 04

  Right, Ellis, Dave's not here. Don't know what he's up to. So it's up to me to talk you through the decks that we've got. So first off, and you're right, you'll see delete memory, if only.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  So best not worry about that. We've got, these are hot plates. So remember, they are on throughout to keep any food warm.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 04

  If you need to make some soup.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  George!

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Welcome.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Hello to thee!

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Captain.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  Madame.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  George!

• 34:26Speaker 06

  Where are we? We're at the seaside.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 06

  Hence.

• 34:30Speaker 04

  You thought we were at the Brighton Dome, so we'll create a smell dome within the room.

• 34:35Speaker 06

  Of smoked fish.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 34:38Speaker 06

  Guff.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Are we ready for the headline act of this evening?

• 34:52Speaker 01

  It's your two favourite Hodges.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Elis James and John Rommell!

• 35:05Speaker 03

  And I'll tell you what, it's quite the contrast listening to Rage Against the Machine and watching 1,200 people having the time of their lives as old Grumpy Socks does his boggle on his phone in the wings.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I absolutely hammered an AI bot at Boggle again. Put it on my gravestone. I win at Boggle.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  It's what he does.

• 35:39Speaker 04

  Wowsers, trousers.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  It's a fun day.

• 35:42Speaker 04

  It's a fun day. Day. And if that wasn't enough, there's also videos of Ellis and I preparing for Halloween parties.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 04

  And making our meringues.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  There's that separate vids.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  A lot of Billy Bonus content this week.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  I've not seen the meringue one yet.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  It's good stuff.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's an insight.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  Would you say that on Oath?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I'd say it's informative stuff. Hey, listen.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  You've gone from entertaining to informative.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  You can watch it.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  It's watchable.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  No, you can watch it.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  So we do hope you enjoy all of that over on patreon.com/ellisonjohn. More emails, please. This is from Josh. Josh says, hello, my three 10 penny floaters. What does that mean?

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Well, you used to get those footballs on the beach that were 10p that were very light.

• 36:26Speaker 04

  A shoot five?

• 36:27Speaker 03

  A shoot five, exactly that. And it would sort of, I think, I think that's what it's referenced to.

• 36:32Speaker 04

  On Friday's episode, you briefly mentioned whether anyone had ever taken a cricket ball to the bants when celebrating your wicket.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 04

  Well, cast your minds back to the summer of 2010. I was playing for my local second eleven when a very good friend of mine took an absolute belter at second slip off my own bowling, dare I say. He proceeded to laugh, sending the ball flying high into the air where it promptly landed onto the team's old boy, giving him quite a nasty cut to the dome. As if things couldn't get any worse, having to spend some time off the field meant he was tasked with bringing out the drinks at the break. Unfortunately, he slipped on the stairs while doing so, broke his arm.

• 37:11Speaker 04

  A wicket, a head injury and a broken arm. Quite the eventful drinks break. Lots of love, Josh.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Do you follow that So Village? Or did you used to follow it when I was on Twitter?

• 37:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  The cricket account. It is so familiar because the standard, the very bottom of recreational like Sunday cricket is so nowhere.

• 37:31Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  But it's hilarious.

• 37:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  It's hilarious.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  So thank you for your emails and keep them coming to ellisonjohn via the email address [email protected].

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Do you know what you've done, John?

• 37:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  Yet again, you are ahead of the curve.

• 37:52Speaker 04

  Why's that?

• 37:53Speaker 03

  Hello, you fabulous fraternity futurists. On the 30th of October, 2026, the Times ran an article titled Netflix on Speed or the Future of TV? The Rise of Micro Dramas, in which it describes a new trend of big budget made for iPhone, other brands are available, micro dramas with episodes that typically last two to three minutes and each series has 20 to 80 episodes. We actually had a discussion about this, Ms. You and I, she read this piece and she's like dead against it and thinks it signals the death of culture. I, however, had a slightly different take for this reason that Joe from Liverpool points out. This sounds remarkably like the onscreen version of a radio show detailing

• 38:36Speaker 03

  the life and times of when Cork-born detective inspector who lived in the Loire Valley.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Is it possible that these micro dramas attracting stars such as Margot Robbie owes its fortunes to the brainchild of our own Sir Doctor, Sir MBA, Sir Prince, Sir John Robins? And is it possible that part of this inevitable windfall can be claimed, given the slightly less unique way the Ellis and John show is now partially funded? Huge fan of the show. Best and warmest wishes, Joe from Liverpool. So basically, Joe was claiming you invented the micro drama, which is the next big thing in TV consumption.

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Well, I think Joe's absolutely right.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Because what they've done, I didn't read the piece, but he was telling me that they basically, Neighbours, you know, Margot Robbie used to be in Neighbours many years ago. They've clipped up the bits that Margot Robbie were on and put them on the Neighbours Instagram. But they've clipped it up in a way that effectively is a new, you're now following the story of her character. So you're, it's like Neighbours, but with every other character stripped away, really. So it's just, it's like Margot, it's like a Margot Robbie TV show. So fans of Margot Robbie, who probably didn't watch Neighbours when it went out.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  Are now consuming her bits of Neighbours through Instagram.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  And that's what TV channels are going to start doing. They're going to start making these tiny little dramas that you can watch on like Insta and TikTok, I suppose.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  But wouldn't the future just be that you will say to your AI assistant, make me

• 39:58Speaker 04

  a 100 year long series of Neighbours only featuring Margot Robbie's character? And it'll just do it and then you'll watch it and then you'll die.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. You sound a bit dumb.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Have to die at the end of it.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  Well, you do. Unless you say to they, I make me immortal as well.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's not as a result of watching the Margo Robbie.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  I think I'd want to die after watching a hundred years.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, do you know, I think I'm with Izzy.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  With only one character in it.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  We're just making everything shorter and faster. People listen to this podcast on 2.4 speed.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Well, he does.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  No, John.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Oh, no, John listens to it on normal speeds.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I just, I just think, where's the blooming, where's the half hour drama gone?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Just go to Simpsons in the Strand.

• 40:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, but then Dave, we also make a Cara, which is a snackable form of the show.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Oh, we do.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  We are oiling the machine that is eating us to death.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, each clip on the Cara from now on will be 20 minutes long. It's going to be a five hour Cara.

• 40:57Speaker 04

  World's first 200 minute carousel on Instagram.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  But people watch, I've got a mate.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Every week will be a Maracara.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  I've got a mate. He listens to this podcast. Hello, Pete. He's big into TikTok. He's watching films on TikTok. But because you can't put full films on TikTok, people are watching like half an hour of a film and you've got to stop then find part two. And then continue watching it. Then you watch part two on TikTok. So people are watching three hour films via TikTok.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  So is the, is 30 minutes the limit on TikTok?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  I don't know, but for some reason he's watching segmented bits. So clearly.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  But what's the advantage over just watching it online?

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Well, I suppose you've got to pay for Disney Plus or Amazon Prime or Netflix or, you know, Apple TV, whereas you'd have to pay for TikTok.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  But people have to kind of just let it stop and then you've got to go to another.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  But is it someone filming the film on their phone?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  It's the film. It's the film.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  Put out by the makers of the film.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  I'm not sure who's put it out. I'm not really on TikTok, but um, it's, it's an interesting way of watching a film. Hmm. Which I don't love.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  God, you're so legacy media, Dave.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I did, um, I inspired young minds earlier this week.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  Did you?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  At Salford University. The same school that John Gray invited to.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  When do I get my invite?

• 42:13Speaker 01

  And I still.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Bring my big map in.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  In my head, I'm still kind of, you know, part of the scene, you know?

• 42:19Speaker 04

  What scene?

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. I'm not sure. The radio scene.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  The legacy media scene.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  I'm still a young whippersnapper that, you know, thinking up great ideas, but isn't a million miles away from, from the kids of today and tomorrow.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  And the three of the panelists that I was on with all graduated between 2018 and 2020.

• 42:38Speaker 04

  There's, no one's been at uni.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  So you're, you're basically Ken Bruce to these people.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. I, it was the first time when genuine, I was, because you kind of joke about getting a bit older in the industry, but it's always been a bit of a joke. But this time I was dead against telling them what year I had graduated in because it's so, it's almost laughable compared to the year. I graduated in 2006.

• 42:59Speaker 04

  But yeah, but that means you're wiser.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  I know, but it's also just a bit, it's a, I, I agree. And I try and take that from it, but when they're all, when all three of them are at the very least 12 years behind that.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  You're like Chandler applying for a job in advertising.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  That's how I felt. And then I started to question like, are my opinions even relevant now? Because they, these guys know what's going on. They're watching films in five, five part chunks on TikTok.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  Military aircraft are going over the studio right now.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. That's a new sound, isn't it?

• 43:30Speaker 01

  And they've gone. So it's fine, I imagine.

• 43:32Speaker 04

  Well, unless war has broken out.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  In which case I will be being called to number 10 urgently. Yeah, to strategize.

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'll probably be on the front line.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  You?

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, get my bum blown off.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  How did it get to your bum first?

• 43:53Speaker 03

  I'll be turning around to look at my big map. And then I'll, then I'll feel a sharp pain. And I'll turn around and they'll say, don't, don't look at the mirror. Don't look at the mirror.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  But you've got a pretty sturdy bum. I bet it'll bounce off.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  I can afford to lose 80% of it, I think. Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Great.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Right. What should we do? Should we?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Hang on, Dave. So they're 12 years younger than you.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Uh, well, they graduated in 2018.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  This is like you going to one of these talks in 2014.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  So what did you think of the men in their early 40s at these old?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  It was fine. It's all fine, but it's just in the room when you're kind of going around and they're talking about.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Tony Blackburn.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not Tony Blackburn.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  They're looking at you going, that's Dave Masterman there. He's the one who came up with the idea of giving away two aprons for free.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Is that the apron guy?

• 44:47Speaker 04

  That's the apron guy. If Ellison John signed them, oh my God.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  That was, no, it can't be his idea. That's his idea.

• 44:56Speaker 04

  Oh, sorry. That doesn't make sense, does it?

• 45:00Speaker 04

  For that to make sense, you need to know that we're giving away two, two aprons in an area of the Ellison John universe, which I'm guessing you're now pretty pleased you're not a part of.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I'm going to say it was Dave's idea and John and I are quite cynical about it.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  No, it's.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  That's your, that's your legacy, Dave.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Well, aprons. No, that's a little silly idea that will work.

• 45:22Speaker 04

  Just go to apron.com forward slash Ellison John.

• 45:36Speaker 07

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.

• 45:54Speaker 07

  That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 46:06Speaker 07

  That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  Hi folks, this is Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. And I'm here to suggest that you host Thanksgiving with industry leading quality standards from Whole Foods Market. There are, as usual, no antibiotics ever in their meat department. So carve up turkey and spiral cut ham with peace of mind. Shop organic sides like stuffing mix and cranberry sauce from 365 brand. And guess what? All of their fabulous delectable pies are made with no high fructose corn syrup. Where else are you going to find that? Gourmet Thanksgiving flavors with the quality you want, only at Whole Foods Market.

• 46:50Speaker 06

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• 47:29Speaker 06

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• 48:05Speaker 04

  Oh God, shall we at last in this God forsaken wilderness have some common zents?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yes, we should. I've not done common zents in ages. Okay, let's do it.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  Well, Ellis, now I hope you're finally of an age where you're able to just absorb a bit of wisdom.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Or I just want to understand it.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  Well, this stuff has been.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  It won't be about ham and parsley sauce and all the things I'm used to from my, from the 50s.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  I can make it about ham and parsley sauce if you want.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  So, um, this week's story is about the moon and the finger.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  And the Buddha said to Ananda.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  To who?

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Amanda.

• 48:55Speaker 04

  Ananda.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  He said, "You and others like you still listen to the Dharma with conditioned minds, therefore you fail to understand its real nature. Consider this: suppose someone is pointing to the moon to show it to another person. The other person, guided by the pointing finger..."

• 49:20Speaker 03

  Why don't you need to point? You should say something up there.

• 49:24Speaker 04

  What did you just do then?

• 49:25Speaker 03

  He just pointed. He did just point.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  You know, no such thing as...

• 49:30Speaker 03

  There it is. Just nodded it with my nose.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  Nod at the moon?

• 49:33Speaker 03

  I'm nodding at the moon. I'm on nodding terms with the moon.

• 49:39Speaker 04

  "That other person guided by the pointing finger should now look at the moon, but if he looks instead at the finger, taking it to be the moon, not only does he fail to see the moon, but he is mistaken too about the finger."

• 49:52Speaker 03

  I mean, absolute tosh.

• 49:56Speaker 04

  "He has confused the finger with which someone is pointing to the moon with the moon which is being pointed to."

• 50:01Speaker 03

  Can you imagine looking at someone's finger going, "God, the moon isn't as big as I thought it would be."

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Ahhh.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  That all, that all bits the earth. Good God.

• 50:13Speaker 04

  "You're gonna get your come up zents very soon, young man. Moreover, his mistake about the finger shows he has failed to distinguish light from dark, in that he has confused what is dark, the finger, with what is light, the moon. He does not know the difference between the nature of light and the nature of darkness."

• 50:32Speaker 03

  I reckon I could point at the moon to someone in a language I didn't speak.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Hmm. Using?

• 50:38Speaker 03

  A little nod. A little nod.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  Well, they might think you're nodding to a bin.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Or practising my headers.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've got a bit of water on your ears.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  I'm doing that, just a little. There we go. There we go.

• 50:51Speaker 04

  "The moon represents the true mind. The Dharma which is spoken is the finger. Since the Buddha speaks about the Dharma in order to point to the true mind, the person in the example doesn't recognise either the finger or the moon for what they are, so they are lost. This is then expanded upon in a poem by Ryokan, a Zen hermit who lived in the 19th century. Relying upon a finger, we see the moon. Relying upon the moon, we understand the finger. Moon and finger are neither the same nor different."

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Everyone understands the fingers. Don't they?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Elis James.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  No, I'm not being confused by my fingers.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Everyone understands their finger.

• 51:35Speaker 04

  "Having seen reality as it is, there is neither moon nor finger."

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Well, it's both.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Or neither.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Fingers. Moon.

• 51:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, you pointed at it again.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  I did a little nod.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  You did, you went fingers. Me.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  It is tempting.

• 51:55Speaker 04

  Ahhh, so there you go.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  I've got my hands in my... There we go. There it is. Just a little, just a little nod.

• 52:06Speaker 03

  Like, like, like, like you would if, I don't know.

• 52:08Speaker 04

  I would, I would think you were saying, "Look, it's Nick Faldo. Just walk past." Something like that.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  He's either pointing out Nick Faldo or the moon to me in a language I don't understand.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  Any questions therein?

• 52:24Speaker 03

  I don't really get that one, John. It's a thinker.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  Well, what, what the Buddha is saying is that when you come to someone for instruction on how to be enlightened...

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Don't ask Nick Faldo.

• 52:39Speaker 04

  If you become too entwined with the instruction...

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  You lose sight of the goal, enlightenment.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Understood.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  So, in, is, in, in many ways, were I to give you a recipe for ham and parsley sauce...

• 52:56Speaker 03

  Hmm. Now, this I understand.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  If you got so obsessed with the recipe...

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:02Speaker 04

  That you forgot that you were making ham and parsley sauce...

• 53:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  And you just became a recipe obsessive and you never ate again. You would starve.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  So you have to remember that ham and parsley sauce is what you're working towards.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  That's the outcome.

• 53:16Speaker 04

  It's a bit like if you have a problem in your life and you go for therapy about the problem, you can get so drowned in the terminology and the sort of the intricacies of your past and your present...

• 53:32Speaker 04

  That you lose sight of what you went to therapy for in the first place, which is to enjoy life, to be free, to be expansive.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  So it's like you can't see Woodford trees.

• 53:42Speaker 04

  It's a bit like, well, you can't see the moon for the finger...

• 53:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 04

  Is what it is. But in the wood sense, if the wood is an instruction on how to get to, but that's confusing because they're the same thing, but they are all the same thing. And also there is neither of them, because we are both the moon and the finger.

• 54:00Speaker 03

  I'm definitely not moon and I am all finger.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 54:06Speaker 03

  What? I mean, my finger's attached to me, Dave.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're a goal for some people. You know, I look at you and I think, "There's the moon."

• 54:12Speaker 03

  I'm nodding at, I'm nodding at the moon. Not nodding at my finger. There we go. Another little nod.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  I mean, primarily visual, as jokes go, but still. I'll do one for the car if you, if you want.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  Imagine a young, a young, um, a young Michael Owen.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:31Speaker 04

  He's 12.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, and best 12-year-old in the world. His words.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  But when, when he was...

• 54:38Speaker 03

  That is true. He did say...

• 54:39Speaker 04

  When he was six...

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, best six-year-old in the world. His words.

• 54:42Speaker 04

  Dreamed of playing football for Liverpool.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  Dreamed of winning the FA Cup.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 04

  Dreamed of scoring a goal at Anfield.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  And then as the instruction goes on, you get obsessed with your hamstring, you get obsessed with, you know, your speed, you get obsessed with your contract.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  You forget all about the goal at Anfield. You forget all about the...

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 04

  The broader picture of enlightenment slash the FA Cup.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  I think the great weakness in it is that every time you explain it without using moon and fingers, I get it. And then as soon as you start talking about moon and fingers, I'm confused by my fingers, which has never happened to me before.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Because it did sound a bit like it was asking you to not get confused between the moon and the finger.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Don't get confused between the practice and the goal.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  But also accept that they are one in the same and both separate and don't exist and do, and you are all of them. Ahhh. More next week.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  Good. Was it?

• 55:45Speaker 04

  It was good.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  I think it was.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  The oddest one.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  No, I don't know. We've had some right weird ones.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  You may have had some.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  But it's good. I do enjoy them.

• 55:53Speaker 04

  Thank you very much.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Oh, um, a, a, a small, a small modest pat on the back at this point, if, if I wish, if I may. Can I wish and may? If I may.

• 56:03Speaker 03

  Do you want me to do it with my finger, Dave?

• 56:05Speaker 01

  If you wish.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Because I'm 100% sure I know where my finger's at.

• 56:08Speaker 04

  Who are you patting on the back?

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Us, because we're nominated for a few awards.

• 56:11Speaker 04

  Ah, my bushes.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Yes. And it's worth it because this is the...

• 56:15Speaker 03

  More than one?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yes, a few, Ellis. Three.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Are we?

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Yes, Ellis. We've been nominated for three Audio Production Awards.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Can I look at my map again?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  You won't see it on there, mate. Uh, but it's worth saying because this is for the production team. So the Michaels, the Joes, the Zofs and the Garrys and the Jennies.

• 56:32Speaker 03

  And the Jennies.

• 56:33Speaker 04

  And the Jennies.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  So it's a lovely congratulations to be nominated for Best Juice of Video for the Adventures of Ellis and John.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  Woohoo.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Uh, Best Presenting Team.

• 56:41Speaker 04

  Oh dear.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  For us guys. Guilty.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  That doesn't feel like production, does it?

• 56:45Speaker 01

  I think it's because they want a bit of star power there, but that's fine. That's good. It's nice to...

• 56:48Speaker 04

  And I am a star, Dave.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  And you are a star, especially at these sorts of awards. It's the Audio Production Awards, John.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  It is.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And Best Comedy Production Team as well.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  So we're nominated for three, which is very nice.

• 57:00Speaker 03

  Thank you very much to the team.

• 57:02Speaker 04

  Hmm. Thank you, everyone. And...

• 57:05Speaker 03

  We've assembled a crack team.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  It's a blumming good team.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  Best in the biz.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, not yet. No, not the best. We're nominated. So best six.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Amongst, amongst the best in the biz.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Or to 10 in the biz.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  We've assembled them.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  Very good stuff. Uh, shall we have a Mad Dad?

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  My dad, when he brought his first non-stick frying pan, kept the instructions and stuck them on the wall next to it.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Actual real wooden clogs.

• 57:33Speaker 04

  And set about eating what must have been north of 24 egg canapes.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  He then proceeded to empty 40 litres or so. Onto the Timber Striker Mad Dad.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  That's our Mad Dads are mad. Keep your Mad Dads coming to [email protected]. This week's Mad Dad comes from Alex. Hello, gentlemen. It was the mid 2000s in a sunny village just outside Leicester called Thurnby. My dad was working from home during this period and was loving the freedom this entailed. He even managed to spark up a friendship with some Jehovah Witnesses who would do the rounds in the village. He wasn't a religious man, but he liked having a good old chat about their faith to break up a lonely day. One lunchtime, he decided to try out a new toy he'd bought for five quid from a car boot sale the week before. Some lovely second-hand gravity boots. These are the boots that you strap round your ankles and hook onto a bar in the air to do a pull-up.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  Oh my God, he's second-hand.

• 58:34Speaker 04

  He'd already fitted a metal bar to the ceiling of the garage, so all he had to do was hook himself on for a lovely strenuous workout.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  Upon testing it, he realised it was maybe a touch uncomfortable around the ankles, decided he'd need to put something on his legs to stop them hurting so much. I still to this day do not know why he chose a wetsuit.

• 58:57Speaker 04

  To alleviate the pain in his ankles, but there we are.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  He also decided to put the wet suit on whilst naked as he was home alone. I guess he assumed it didn't matter. So my wet suited dad hooked himself in, was now upside down and ready to do his workout.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  This is an all timer.

• 59:23Speaker 04

  To his horror.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  An upside down worker in second hand equipment.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  To his horror, he realised that he couldn't actually lift himself up properly due to the restrictions of the wet suit. The more he tried, the more tired he got. Rolling the wet suit down to his knees didn't help either. This is where panic set in. He actually could not reach up to the bar to unhook the shoes to get himself down. He began shouting so that someone on the street might hear his screams of help and come to his aid. He was there for about an hour before he heard the doorbell go. It was the Jehovah's Witnesses. He began shouting.

• 59:59Speaker 03

  That's the best case scenario, I think.

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  Cause I'm now flicking through the rolodex of people in my street and I don't want any of them to find me upside down with a wet suit to the waist.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so where?

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  In second gravity.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Carry on.

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  He began shouting and screaming and luckily they were able to find their way into the garage to save my now half naked beetroot red dad from his almost ill fate. I'm not sure if he ever did see them again, but I can't not think about Jehovah's Witnesses now without without imagining them helping my naked dad down from his gravity boot slash wet suit mishap. God bless Alex.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  What an image.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  I, I would have thrown them in the bin before I was upright. I mean, it's also been upside down for an hour, must be horrible.

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  Well, also in all of the, I think I've done now on and off nearly 300 CrossFit classes.

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  Oh, that's great.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  I have never, we've never been asked to replicate what he was doing in his garage. Like an upside down pull up, I suppose, to an extent.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Well, it'd get your abs, wouldn't it? I think as you'd lift up, it'd do wonders for your abs.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  But why wouldn't you just hold on to a bar and lift your legs up like in a pike position?

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  That would do the same.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  It wouldn't, yeah. I vaguely remember the gravity boot scene.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember them, but you would, if you've never done it before, you've got to make sure someone's spotting you for that.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  It's sort of in the world of those, those pedals that you could put under your office chair.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  And the electronic sort of ab zappers that you could have whilst watching the TV.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  There were lots of, in the nineties especially, there were lots of weird exercise fad. There was like that weird bar that you'd have on the floor.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, the crunch bar.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  The crunch bar.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  There was in the eighties, there was a thing that my dad bought for a guy at work, the bull worker. You're probably too young to remember the bull. It was, it was sort of a metal thing that you'd stretch.

• 1:01:59Speaker 04

  With springs, yeah.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  And you could do, you could do a variety of different exercises with the bull worker.

• 1:02:06Speaker 04

  I would like your thoughts on this.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Running in bin bags was the other one. No one does that anymore.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  To sweat, to lose weight.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Did Rocky do that?

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  Probably, but people, I mean, I used to see people do that at Runk Marvin.

• 1:02:18Speaker 04

  So I read a thing that, uh, High Rocks is gonna try and be in the Olympics.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  Now, I, you know, I support all of those sort of athletic and fitness endeavours, but my thinking is if you're using a machine to replicate a sport, that shouldn't be in the Olympics. Rowing is in the Olympics, but rowing machines shouldn't be in the Olympics.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I see what you mean.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  Cause where does it end? Cause then you're gonna get like.

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Trendy running, yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  But gamers, gaming in the Olympics, the Olympic Mario Kart.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  I don't think we'll ever get to that.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  There is, but there is.

• 1:02:56Speaker 04

  There is an E game.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  There is, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 1:02:59Speaker 04

  And High Rocks obviously has its own competitions, but.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  The, the thing with High Rocks over something like, uh, break dancing or breaking is that it's, it's, it's objective. Cause remember Reagan, the Australian woman who, and she got terrible stick for her performance at the Paris Olympics, she was in the break dancing competition.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  And she was pretending to be a kangaroo, remember this?

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  And the abeusha got online was.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  It's a documentary that came out.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  An excellent documentary on Netflix about that. Well, it was unreal abeusha got.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Globally trending for days and days and days. But it's subjective. And she thought that the judges were gonna love it and she was obviously incredibly, you know, it was at least with High Rocks, you can establish who's the fastest, who's the.

• 1:03:47Speaker 04

  No, but the point I'm making is that you're, a sport shouldn't be made of something which is a machine that replicates a sport.

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know what you mean.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Cause what, I don't really know what High Rocks is to be honest, what else does it do? It does rowing.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  It's a kilometre run, rowing a kilometre run, then weighted lunges, then a kilometre run, then ski, then a kilometre run. It just really benefits the runners.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  But the kilometre run isn't on a treadmill, is it?

• 1:04:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Cause they do it at the Millennium Stadium, I think High Rocks, at Cardiff, so.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  So do you go out onto the streets and do the run?

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  It's in like a lap.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  It's not for me.

• 1:04:21Speaker 04

  It's the most popular thing.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Oh, it's huge.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is huge.

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  But anyway, that's just what I thought.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Interesting. I mean, you could argue that they should actually make the Olympics smaller and go back to it, back to basics. And it should be about running and jumping and throwing and.

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  It should go back to the first Olympics where it's just croquet, French cricket and bridge.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  And smoking.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  And smoking, yeah. And shearing sheep, like who can shear a sheep in the fastest time? Anyway, there you go. That's just my hot take.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  No, I.

• 1:04:53Speaker 04

  And we'll have another hot take next week.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  I'm interested in that. I like these competitions.

• 1:04:57Speaker 04

  You wouldn't have archery if it was like a sort of.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  On a simulator.

• 1:05:00Speaker 04

  Like a Nintendo bow.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, or you, like a golf simulator.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  You would, you would play golf.

• 1:05:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Also, it feels like it's amalgamating a lot of sports together.

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Whereas.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  But, you know, the pentathlon.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Then again, the pentathlon.

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  But they're doing those things in the pentathlon.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 04

  Anyway, cause what you could have is the deadlift instead of lifting up a weight. It's just one of those bars and you just apply force to it and it measures how much force you can apply.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  It's like, um, you know, cycling obviously is an Olympic sport, but no one's on a static bike.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  No, but they may be.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 04

  That might be where this is going.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  Oh my, we should get back on live radio, man. This, imagine a text.

• 1:05:42Speaker 04

  Inspiring chat.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Imagine the text console now.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  Tired.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  We all, when we do, we should say as well, we do embrace change. Cause this episode has felt, you know, I'm banging on about people watching videos on TikTok and we should take the Olympics back to when it first began. It is also important to just maybe this is where we're at in 2026.

• 1:05:59Speaker 04

  Some of us are in our late 40s now. It's inevitable that we think our youth was the golden age.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the 1960 Olympics was the best Olympics.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  I bet you look at like, do you look at the Reading and Leeds lineup and go, what's all this rubbish?

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  No, cause it's still the red hot chili peppers. That's the one thing that will never change.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  It's not, no, it's, ah, maybe there's a one off.

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  They will be closing Reading the year I die.

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  And if it isn't them, it'll be hologram, the red hologram chili peppers.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  No, Reading's moved on, but they still, they probably would still take the chili peppers.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course they would. Who wouldn't?

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Who wouldn't? Yeah, they're not mad.

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  Uh, so folks, we'll be back with you on Saturday.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Anyway, all right. Good day, we're all, goodbye.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Verizon knows that holiday math can be complicated.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

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• 1:07:12Speaker 02

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• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 1:08:02Speaker 06

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• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  Thanks for listening to the show and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Ellis and John for more content.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  And you can watch highlights of every episode over on our YouTube page at Ellis and John.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Plus you can find all things E J J R, including links to our Patreon, our merch and much more by heading to ellisonjohn.com. See you next time.