#583 - Podglomerates, Karaoke (A) and Always Go Nations League

It’s been a week of celebration at E&J towers; Elis has been 12th birthday partying with his daughter (and turned into a master chocolate pourer in the process) and Dave is about to/has just had his big day whilst walking around Harrogate with a bunch of lads. Different ages, different needs. There’s no celebration for John, however, who puts himself on the back foot trying to defend another on-the-hoof analogy. Plus, because we’re still remote, there’s the welcome return of the classic game Room Raiders, where the boys rummage through their possessions to find the best items. Send in your Mad Dads, your Shame Wells, and everything in between to [email protected]. For lots of exclusive EJJR #content, join our Patreon at patreon.com/elisandjohn. For weekly visual highlights, head to youtube.com/@elisandjohn. For everything else, head to elisandjohn.com. The Elis James and John Robins Show is a Significant Production. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Before we start this episode, we want to invite you along to the adventures of Ellis and John.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  If you head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn, you can join us on our monthly escapades, including

• 0:10Speaker 00

  mini-land pics.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  It's the strangest legal jump in the history of long jump.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Bird watching.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  My two favourite things are birds and football.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  And you can watch our latest episode now, where we tackle an escape room.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  So John is absolutely flying here. Well, Ellis is there as well.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  Ellis is there as well, Dave.

• 0:27Speaker 03

  We did the first three, Dave, for complete chill.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  So for adventures and so much more, head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn now.

• 0:40Speaker 04

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Hello, everyone. The world of podcasting is changing, and as such, podcasts need to adapt. Gone are the days of audio dweebs huddling under duvets to connect with small audiences about niche interests. What began as a new technology pioneered by enthusiasts from their bedroom is now big business dominated by a few dozen podcast conglomerates, aka potglomerates. And in an age of acquisitions, mergers and partnerships, the only way for Ellis and John to survive and thrive for another 10 years is to move with the times. And I'm delighted to announce that from next week, we will launch a groundbreaking hybrid mega pod. I present Help by Sexton, the Diary of the Rest is Joe Rogan's Parenting Hell with Ellis James and John Robbins.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Brought to you by Jet 2, Athletic Greens, Fuse Energy, Pampers and Athletic Greens again, this is the only podcast you'll ever need. And in increasingly crowded podcast marketplace, instead of struggling to find time for a new title, why not replace all of your podcasts with this one-stop-shop? Every week, William, Jordan, Stephen, Joe, Alastair, Rory, Josh, Rob, Ellis and John discuss the best etiquette when growing your business on little sleep as the far-right continues to rise, while smoking a doobie in the trans debate about whether you've been impressed by a treehouse. Three six-hour episodes drop every Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. And if you want to support the podcast, just head to Help by Sexton, the Diary of the Rest is Joe Rogan's

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Parenting Hell with Ellis James and JohnRobbins.com now, where you can sign up for our newsletter and early access to live tickets. Our tour kicks off in April 2027 and includes shows at the Sphere in Las Vegas, Wembley Stadium and the Pyramids.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  And if all this sounds a little bit dude-heavy, don't worry, our sister podcast launches soon and you'll be able to listen to the guilty feminist ghosted all-killer single ladies in your area red-handed with Elizabeth Day, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Oh, yes. It's like, it's the multivitamin of podcasts. It's the synatogen of podcasts.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  It's the motorway services of podcasts.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Synato-pod. It's all you need.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I haven't got time to drive to a Pret, a Chopsticks noodle, a German Doner kebab, a WH Smith, an M&S, a toilet

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  And a business networking hub.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  And gamble.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  And have a shower. I can't do that. I haven't got enough time in the day. So we whack it all in one place and you can fill up on all of your podcast needs there.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  It's the way it's going, isn't it?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely it is, definitely.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  You know, because in the 70s, there were supergroups, weren't there?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  Where, you know, great musicians from, you know, pre-existing mega bands would team up.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Traveling Wilbreeze.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Traveling Wilbreeze is probably the best example. And often be far less than the sum of their parts.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Very much so. And that's what we're hoping for.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  And that's what we're hoping for. It's the podcast that will disappoint everyone.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yes, the worst of all of those podcasts.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, the worst of all worlds.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  In one place. Bit of a nightmare for you managing your monsters there, Dave, with Joe Rogan and Stephen Bartlett and me.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna, yeah, I wanted to, well, I think the, because I was thinking that, who opens each episode is the tricky bit, isn't it?

• 4:54Speaker 00

  I think it's got, it's got to be Rogan, isn't it?

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Is gonna wanna have that opening intro. So how do we manage that across three times six hours episodes each week?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Well, you would open with the sound of a Zippo lighter.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  The sort of k of a Zippo lighter. The slow inhale of a doobie.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Then the click of a boardroom door, the crying of a baby,

• 5:27Speaker 01

  the silence of my thoughts. Ellis is heavy breathing because he's sort of there in a rush because he's just recorded distant pod.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  And what was the other one?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Help by Sexton, my boss.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Yes, Sexton.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Help by Sexton, my boss. So the slip slap of lubrication. And then here, here, just recorded from the Houses of Parliament. So everyone is represented in the sort of opening soundscape, which will be quite disturbing.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  I think though, I think Rogan's gonna be the alpha in the room.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  You might be. I reckon Beckett would give as good as he gets against Rogan.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, I would say intellectually, Rogan obviously is hard.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  I reckon Beckett can outwit Rogan.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  100%.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  He would run rings around him.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  If you ever play football with Rob Beckett, off the cuff, he is unbelievable. He is so funny. And Rogan would not be able to cope, even though Rogan did do stand-up, didn't he, from what I remember?

• 6:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  I don't know, I don't know to what sort of, to what success. But yeah, so look forward to that. And fingers crossed, early indications from our agents would imply that Spotify are willing to pay us 2,000,000,000 grand. So looking forward to becoming the richest person on earth. Can't wait, can't wait.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, 2,000,000,000,000 grand.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, nice. Oh, we should mention early doors on this episode, that we are still remote, aren't we, Ellis? As we, we still come from our various locations.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  The last time though, so don't worry about the camera, even though obviously I don't mind about the camera because I've paid for an expensive camera. So I look absolutely gorgeous. John and Dave look obviously very washed out, but you know, what can you do?

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Well, I am tempted to invest in one of your fancy cameras.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Oh, it's worth it. It's worth it.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Just so we get to Hollywood levels. But yes, we are remote. Back in the studio next week.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Been a big weekend for me, John.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Has it? Tell me, tell me, tell me.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Daughter's birthday, Betty's birthday. She's now 12 years of age. Huge. On the Saturday, me, a best friend and a best friend's mum, we did a chocolate making course.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  And I've kept, I've kept some of the chocolates, so I can bring them in.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I have a question.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I'm gonna tell you, because my confidence has never been higher. The lady who was teaching us how to make chocolate, this is just a selection of the things she said to me. Gosh, you're good at pouring. Wow. You're great at pouring. That's nine out of 10 pouring. You've got a great eye for detail when it comes to pouring. You're actually almost like a professional pourer.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  So it's all exclusively about the pour?

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was pouring chocolate into molds and all that kind of stuff. And she, she, I mean, with the greatest respect to Heather, the other adult in the room, she never once complimented Heather on her pouring. My pouring, it was just compliment after compliment after compliment and I feel great. So next time I see you, I'll bring in some of the chocolates I made because I'm very proud of them.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Yes, they're in a box, they're in a fridge to maintain, for them to maintain their structural integrity. But I think the pouring is my future, yes.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  I have a question about the process of making chocolate.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Because in, my initial thought was, oh my God, it's like Willy Wonka. It's, it's gonna be incredible understanding the process of making chocolate. But then I thought, you know what? I bet it's just melting bits of chocolate and then pouring them into other shapes.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, and pouring and scraping and pouring and scraping and pour and scrape and pour and scrape and move and fire and move and fire. And then you're colouring the chocolates. So mine, so mine look, I've made little chocolate stars. They look different.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  But have you, to what extent are you making the actual raw materials?

• 9:22Speaker 00

  I wasn't really making the chocolate. I was just putting them into different shapes and I was choosing which colour I was. So I was there for about two hours. The chocolate is delicious.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Did you get to flavour them with anything?

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Uh, I got to select the flavour profile of the chocolate. So I made, I made milk chocolate stars with, and the inside of the milk chocolate stars is runny. And I made a bar of dark chocolate and Betty made a bar of milk chocolate. Very, very nice. Felt great because my pouring was complimented for two hours. Feel nice. The next day, the big day, I took 15 elevations. Year old girls to Waterloo on a minibus for them to sing karaoke and it was.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  I would say not a day for John Robbins.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  So we met at half past eleven. They are lovely girls. They're lovely kids. And what I love about it is of the fifteen only. Very few of them were sort of the, the, the, the vast majority were new friends from secondary school.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Oh, so that's an important day for you.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Important because she's only been at secondary school for a month. So these were new classmates, people we'd not heard of before. So it's very interesting because obviously she speaks about her friends when she's at home. Very nice to put names to faces, but fifteen eleven year old girls on a minibus karaoke away. You know, they're gonna get boisterous. Like all, minibus seem to make people loud. Like I've been on minibus when I'm.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Like on the way to on football trips and stuff where it's fifteen or sixteen men and someone pitches up and then you've got to pitch up to be heard and then suddenly everyone's shouting and you're on the M one for three hours. Jim, the driver.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Can I ask, was the minibus part of the excitement of the experience? Cause you could have gone high vis, holding hands, tube.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then that was stressing Izzy out in particular because it would have been like a bus and train. And you've got fifteen girls, you're making sure that they're all there. Also, I did, I'd never met some of them before, whereas her primary school friends, I knew them all. So.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Hard to pick someone you've never met out in a crowd.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  Exactly. So we decided to minibus it, but obviously the girls were very excited and being on a minibus is just a laugh anyway. But uh, it was very funny when the, uh, when the driver, because they were all singing their songs, they were practising because they, they, they couldn't wait to get to karaoke. And the driver went, please ladies, keep it down, please. We left at eleven thirty and he said that at eleven thirty six.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  I thought he's on, he's in for a long forty five minutes.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  He is me.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's me. So it wasn't like a sort of a specific minibus for kids.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  No, no, I hired the minibus.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  He was like just wishing he had twenty Millwall fans in the back.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, we did. There was a lot of this.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Or some old people visiting a National Trust property.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  We had all of these conversations, the, the old, the elderly people visiting the National Trust property, that was one of the suggestions and that was top of the list because they're gonna be nice and quiet and respectful. And they're gonna take their rubbish with them. But the, the girls were very, very well behaved. It's just, uh. I wasn't, I was, I kept popping in and out to take drinks orders and food orders, but I wasn't in the karaoke zone, but it was definitely loud when I did go in there. But it was just, it was like the anti John Robbins day. And even, even though she had a fantastic time. When Izzy and I got home, we put the telly on, uh, Izzy had to lie down in a darkened room and I had to listen to can with headphones on for fifteen minutes just to sort of decompress.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Well, what were the big hits? Do you know? I know you weren't in the room for long, but what were the, what were the mainstays?

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, a lot of sort of modern pop music, you know, Bruno Mars, all that kind of stuff, uh, Bitter Rodders, but.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Betty's Choice to End, the final song they all sang along with Champagne Supernova by Oasis. They are the people's band, Dave.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have called that.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Well, you, well, we were getting high.

• 13:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Eleven and twelve, but they were all arms aloft punching you. Where were you? We were getting high. It's a really funny video.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Was there much Taylor Swift?

• 13:43Speaker 00

  I didn't detect very much Taylor Swift.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Feels like there's been a bit of a backlash against Taylor Swift recently.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Betty thinks Taylor Swift is too obvious.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  So she thinks, uh, she thinks that the sort of Rodders is far more cryptic with their lyrics and that there's more emotional depth to, to Rodders songs.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Hasn't Taylor Swift released a song which is a sort of, I'm getting confused here. This is like based on one percent fact, Dave. Hasn't she released a diss track?

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  And hasn't she released a sort of a sexual song?

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Quite a few of them are sexual these days, John. She's, she's a grown.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Sort of language in which it's couched is perhaps struggles to straddle the erotic and the family friendly.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Oh, I don't know.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, yeah, I think it's an interesting one because Lila loves Swifty still. But like, there's one track on, I think, um, was it the poet's album, whatever that was called, the Dead Poets Department, not that, it's not called that, but you know, I didn't know which one I mean. There's a song that's got the F-bomb like about twenty times in it.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  Rodders swears in her songs, but she does radio friendly swear free versions.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  So that's, that, that's, uh, I mean, that's a very shrewd, uh, strategy from her marketing team. I mean, the problem is gonna be, I was talking about this with Ivy actually, because his daughter likes Olivia Rodrigo. What happens at the live gigs?

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta drop the bombs, haven't you?

• 15:13Speaker 00

  You would think so, yeah. I don't know, but, um, there's just, I really, I really like watching big gangs of kids having fun. It's like when you see football teams on the, in the park on a sort of Saturday morning and they're all in their kits and they all can't wait to get cracking. It's, um, it's really nice. But on Friday night, I, I went and did a gig in Canterbury.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. On your, on your mega hangover.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  On the mega hangover. But I, I had to take Betty with me and, um, she saw Nina Conti live and Nina was absolutely sensational. Have you gigged with Nina recently, John?

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Um, not recently, but I would put her in the top five most unfollowably good live acts in the country.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  That's what I said to Esther Menito who was comparing. I said, you just can't follow this.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  It's, because it's so much of it is improvised. She had lots of people up from the audience, just clearly improvising in the room and she's, she's so funny off the cuff.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  I did the warm up for Nina's, uh, big sort of TV primetime pilot.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  What did you?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Which didn't get made and she, she references that on Taskmaster, I think. It's one of the best things I've ever seen. And it made me, it was a big moment for me, losing complete faith in all TV commissioners. Cause I was like, if you don't like that, you don't know what you like.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  Yes, up one hundred percent.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  You're overthinking what you think people like because what I have just witnessed was top level stuff.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Cause I've not done a gig with Nina for ages. I've not done a gig with her. I'd seen her. I saw her at the Taskmaster rap party. I went to the final record. And I did gigs with her years ago. And obviously I've seen her on telly and been watching her on Taskmaster, but watching her. At the Marlow Theatre in Canterbury in front of twelve hundred people, she was sold out. It, like, I was, when you, when you do stand up yourself, you laugh less than you, you know, than the, than the average punter, because you kind of, you're, you're so used to being around funny people. Like I was shrieking with laughter. She's just unbelievable. I bet you watch from the wings and I think now she wants to be a stand up comedian because she. We listened to can and Oasis on the way. We listened to Radiohead and Rodders on the way back.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  She saw Nina Conti and Esther, Esther was lovely to her as well. And, um, everyone was nice to her backstage. I think she thought to herself, yeah, this is the life for me.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Really? Do you think she's heading towards stand up?

• 17:39Speaker 00

  I think so. I think just because she had such, because we didn't see Will the opening act. So we arrived a bit later and was packing the car and stuff, but everyone backstage was so nice to her. And then to see someone of Nina's quality smash a gig and Esther did really well as well. And they were all, you know, I think she thought to herself, yeah, wouldn't mind a bit of this.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  You need to take her to some really ropey, open night nights in London.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Where she just sees people really like struggling through material in front of tourists.

• 18:09Speaker 00

  Oh God, yeah.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  I watched an interview with Doug Stanhope where he talks about the epiphany. That he was really struggling with his mental health for many years doing stand up and he realised it was always before he came to the UK. He just felt completely sick and as soon as he stopped gigging in the UK, he felt much better.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Really?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  He used to often criticise British food, didn't he, Doug Stanhope?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's not a fan of the UK.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  No. Did, did he, did he elaborate? Did he say why or did he?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's really, he is, he did, did not hold back. He said it was dank, wet, everyone hates themselves. It's grey stone and it's depressing.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Oh, you must be listening to this podcast.

• 19:01Speaker 05

  Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new workday.

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• 19:49Speaker 01

  What have you been up to, Dave?

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Well, I've been away as well, actually, John.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Where have you been, Dave?

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Well, I've not been away yet, but I will have been away now, if you know what I mean.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Well, what time will you have had?

• 20:01Speaker 03

  I'm not sure. Do you know what I know? It'll have been absolutely belting. It's, we're off to Yorkshire for a walking trip for a couple of days.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Lovely, where are you walking in Yorkshire, Dave?

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Harrogate Way. So there's some really nice kind of areas over there. I've gone, big, massive, dead, dead big mansion that we're staying in.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  With the lads?

• 20:19Speaker 03

  With the lads. With the, I've got two sets of mates, right? I've got the one set of mates where we did an all-inclusive in Mallorca last year.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, Class A club.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  It's the, it's the Class A club because they're all great lads is what you mean.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the B team, which is the beer team.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  And there's us guys, there's the London, so that's the Manchester lot and the London lot. We get essentially a house that we bring the food in and we go for walks and we sit around a fire pit.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Brigade.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. And we sit around a fire pit and we won't have been together, or we've not really been together. We do this once a year, but it's the only real time we do get together because everyone's moved out of London now, so.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you sit around the fire pit and talk about your feelings?

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, we do, we absolutely do. And we catch up and we'll have, and we'll have done that for, yeah, three days in Yorkshire. Across my birthday as well as my, it was my birthday on Sunday.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Hang on, have I forgotten to give you, call you happy birthday?

• 21:13Speaker 03

  No, you've got a few days.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  When is it?

• 21:16Speaker 03

  October the 11th, so.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  So bad at people's birthdays, which is strange because I'm great at my personal finances.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  You are, where's the correlation?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  The 11th.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  The 11th, put it in your diary, drop me a little text on the morning, John, but I also don't really mind if you don't because it's not, it's not a biggie.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  More options, repeat every year.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, nice.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Does repeat annually on October the 11th. And that now, Dave, until my death or yours, is a guaranteed WhatsApp.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Oh, is it?

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Does it send the WhatsApp for you or have you still got to do that as a human being?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Someone did send me a link to a WhatsApp AI PA who will do that for you. But you have to give them access to your emails, which I'm not willing to do because I'm afraid that one day someone's going to hack into my Willie.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  And put it all over the news.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Wasn't the doctor already done that?

• 22:17Speaker 03

  It's a very thoughtful thing to text me via an AI WhatsApp on my birthday, John, I'm looking forward to it.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Don't thank me, Dave, thank insight.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I'd love that, I'd love it if it was just, hiya pal, not even a name on it. Happy birthday.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  Hi, friend.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Love to the family or friends or, or loved one. And if you've got children, I hope they're doing all right, see you next year.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Bye, bye.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  You know, you're the Class A.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Because they're a top bunch of lads, yes.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  And then the Burgous, not a brigade, and the North Face friends, the Falraven friends.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  When the Falraven friends and the Cat A cohort get together.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  They can't be near a cliff edge.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's when the, when the Class A cohort and the Falraven friends get together. What's that like for Dave?

• 23:10Speaker 03

  Well, you will have seen it because it really did come, it really did come together at my wedding in a pretty, and not in a, not in a bad way, but just two very different sets of mates in Manchester Town Hall, suddenly in a big room, listening to Clint Boone DJ was, was quite the moment. And they all got on, it was, it was fine.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  Did you find it stressful? I thought I'd find that really stressful.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Come down on the fence.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  I thought I'd find that really stressful on my stack and I actually really enjoyed it.

• 23:38Speaker 03

  No, they're all very, they're all very, they're very different, but they're all very outgoing and easy to chat to. So they do, they will just, you know, they all just mingle in. But it was interesting when we were planning the Mallorca holiday, I think I was the only one that was like, well, why don't we get an Airbnb in? We can get the food in and we can, you know, we can then plan what we want to do each day. And then it's, we're not just kind of beholden to just a bar that's there and we can do whatever we want. And the silence was deafening from the Manchester group.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Because you're in the, you're in the centre of the Venn diagram.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm in the centre.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  The, the Class A cohort and the Burgous boys.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  And the Falraven fellas, yeah. But I enjoy them both equally, but it'll be lovely to, lovely to see them. And it's the first time that we'll, because we'll still be up at midnight, of course we will, we're blooming lads on a Saturday night. So we will go into my birthday on the Sunday, which should be quite nice. I don't think any of them realise it's my birthday though, and I'm probably not going to mention it. So it'll be interesting to see whether they do.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Are you going to get the bumps so they're going to do anything horrible to you because it's your birthday? Are you going to get wedged into oblivion?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  You've got to mention it's your birthday.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Because otherwise you're just making loads of people feel bad.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I will, I will mention it's my birthday.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  And say you want loads of presents, really big, expensive ones.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Okay, it's disappointing though, because I'd ordered a rounders set so I could take my new rounder set with me to it. Because we're 42 years old, we play rounders in a big garden and it's not arrived today. And that was the big thing that I was going to contribute to the group was my rounders set. And now I haven't got my rounders set, so.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  When do you leave?

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Tomorrow morning.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  That's not ideal, can you track your rounders set?

• 25:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just been delayed in transit, so it's now going to arrive a couple of days later. But the garden is lovely and big for a rounders game.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Well, just, Dave, why not just do it the old fashioned way and go to your local rounders shop?

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Harrogate Rounders.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  There was a time in this country when if people wanted to play rounders, they would go to Rounders R Us.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is true.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  You must have a decathlon near you.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  I can't, I've not got time to get out of the house now. So I will, we'll do, we're taking a frisbee, of course we are, we're not mad. There'll be frisbee in the mix.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  We'll just sell a tape together, three full cans of lager, that's your rounders bat.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  And then you just need a tennis ball.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true, there's always ways, isn't there?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  You must have something in your house you could use as a rounders bat.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Can you just take a chair apart and use a chair leg?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, baseball bat. You've got one by the front door in case you're, in case your neighbour's not going.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  I have got a rounders bat next to my bed for that exact reason.

• 26:13Speaker 00

  Well then, why do you need, why do you need another one?

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Well, because I'd leave that for Hannah in case intruders come whilst I'm away, obviously.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  So she can batter a burglar to death with your, with your rounders bat, okay.

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I'll take that, good idea. Someone took croquet last year, that's, that's a boring one. Croquet's rubbish.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  I love croquet.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 26:33Speaker 00

  I'm seeing a real divide between the, the Cat A, the Class A cohort and the Burgous boys. Croquet?

• 26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, croquet is with the Falraven lads.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  I've only ever played croquet once and it was fine.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  It's quite slow.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  So that's my weekend, very much looking forward to it.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Well, we wish you all the best and a very happy birthday for when it comes, Dave.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Thanks, I look forward to the WhatsApp.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Right then, everyone, well, I think it's time to expand Ellis's spiritual hinterland in common sense.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  It's been a while.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Yes, and I'm just practising acceptance as my open source office software. It takes about 25 seconds to open. And that's, and that's where we are. And we just focus on the breath. Because you can keep clicking it and the little logo comes up, but document comes there none. Oh, it opens it, that's what happens, it opens it minimised because I've got another document minimised, which is not what I want and that's not intuitive. But what is intuitive apart from the breath?

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Have you considered spending money on a different one?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  On Microsoft 365, you're out of your mind. Have you lost touch with reality?

• 28:16Speaker 03

  We'll move across to Gmail at any point, was that on the cards?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  What, sorry?

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Maybe a little move across to Gmail at some point.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  That's an email client, Dave.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  Oh, you're not, is this not a doc problem?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  This is an open source office software problem. Because all of the defaults are set to different programs.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Because some of them are stopping being supported by Intel-based Macs, whatever that means.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  But, you know. It's good to see you doing so well.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  What we got, John?

• 28:52Speaker 00

  Nice one. See you later.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Several blind men each approached an elephant

• 29:03Speaker 01

  and began to touch it to identify it.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  One touches the trunk and says, this is a snake.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Is this John?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  One touches the leg and says, this is a big tree.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  They're thick, thickos.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Another feels the ear and says, this is like a fan.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  Is anything wrong with them?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  And they begin an argument about what they are touching.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  He's lost faith when he's dropping in an hour halfway through.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Oh, is that it?

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Is that it?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Well, now you have to reflect on and ruminate and grow.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Well, someone surely will tell them, let's say it's an elephant. And they would go, oh, nice one, is it?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Well, no, because one of them's saying, this is a snake. And the other one's arguing, saying, no, this is a tree.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Well, it's none of those things, is it? So all you need is for a passerby to go, by the way, lads, it's an elephant. And then the three of them will go, thank you, mate. Cheers. Thank you. Nice one.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Well, maybe think of the passerby as the Buddha.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  Microsoft 365.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  It's clippy. Maybe think of the Buddha as clippy.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Oh, I see you're trying to touch an elephant.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Can I give you a template for how to go about that?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  But I think the lesson here is that we often mistake our perspective for complete truth.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yes. He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  And a very, a very good lesson for people on social media, getting into arguments and picking fights, because you're only talking from your understanding of the world.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  Big old snake.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Big old snake.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  It's a big old snake.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  You do get snakes bigger than elephants' trunks.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Doesn't feel like a fan, I don't think, an elephant's ear.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  No, well, maybe a hand fan, a leather hand fan.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Be a massive leather moving hand fan.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Well, some Buddhist monks have, or had in the past, I don't know if they still do, big fans to stop them gazing at women.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  What, did they?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, to sort of shield their eyes from sort of earthly desires.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  Whereas now they wear Patagonia baseball caps.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Whereas now, I saw an Instagram. I don't know why I was getting this. It was Lou Reed in a Patagonia coat.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. That's because you like Lou Reed and he'd been talking to me. That's what our shared algorithm would be like if we both had the same phone.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  He just looked like someone's uncle, like going to, going to visit Bowwood House.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, good, but will you send me that?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll send you that.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Thanks, because I actually would like to see that. What year is it from? Do you know?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Oh, I think it's quite late.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, if you could send me that, I'd really, really appreciate it. Just add it to my, yeah, just add it to my collection of rock stars I like in coats. I like.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll send you that now.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  So, so what, what would you say this is the, is the overriding message of that? Common sense?

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Um, to take a broad view.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  To empathise with others and to not trust your perception of things as the truth.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  So.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  There is no ultimate truth.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Is it judging?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Because it's an elephant.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Oh, that's a nice coat. Is it judging?

• 32:45Speaker 03

  He looks warm, doesn't he?

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Is it, is it judging the blind people in any way? Or is it just using them as a device?

• 32:54Speaker 01

  It's a metaphorical blindness. We're all blind in a sense.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Because we're all so beholden to our, the self, our own view. So, you know, when I listen to a political podcast, I get all angry because I think, oh, why didn't they just do this? And why didn't they just do that? And that's the way to solve everything. But then, because we're increasingly encouraged to just sort of blurt out our, our version of what's right. If I actually take time to consider someone else's perspective, I might realise, oh, this is actually a bit more complex than that.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  So to modernise, to, so to modernise this saying then, really, the elephant is X and Elon Musk has distorted the elephant so that it feels like a tree, a fan and a snake.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Um, no, I would say the elephant is, for example, immigration.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  Okay. Best of luck, John. Because your analogies are always on the fly, so I'd just like to wish you all the best.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  We'll just mute our mics at this point now.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, we'll.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  Good luck, fella.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, have a good one, mate.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  To the family.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  And someone touches the gross figures.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  And says, this is too much.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  Still on social media, John?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  And someone touches the net gain to the economy and says, this is not enough.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Thankfully, someone at our agency works in crisis management PR. So have a good one. You continue. Carry on. We'll get Emily in on the case.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  And someone is, who is a racist.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Hi, Emily, it's, it's El Johnston, another one of his on the hoof analogies again. But this one is big and it's in the Tuesday releases. It is going to end up on Five Live. Yeah, if you could try and manage that crisis, that would be great. Thank you.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  Okay, bye now. Ta-da, ta-da.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  And someone touches something completely different. They're a racist.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, and then someone touches the tusks and says, I don't want to talk about this at all because it's too sharp.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just want my tusks back.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  I just, I just. Um, and then they take off their blindfolds and they realise that it's a complex issue.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Multi-factors, not many factors.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  But it's an elephant still, yeah?

• 35:33Speaker 01

  It's still immigration.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Still immigration. It's the immigration elephant. Yes.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, in many ways, the elephant in the room.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Very, very good.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  That was nice.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Um, so I guess in the, in a, in a sense, Buddha in that analogy is the centrist dad.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  We're not the EU because the EU will have different approaches.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Um, but it's a complex animal, the elephant.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  It is, isn't it?

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Weirdly, I think that all that was fine somehow.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think he's, he got away with it just about.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Leave it to him.

• 36:15Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  So there you go. And another lesson next week.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Thanks, man.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Well, I feel enlightened.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Well, you're welcome, actually.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  How are you feeling, Al?

• 36:26Speaker 00

  Of all the things he could choose for an analogy, to go in with immigration, to watch.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Nations League.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Always go Nations League.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Always go Nations League.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Uh, I really, really enjoyed that. Yeah. So fingers crossed we'll have more analogies next week.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. Bye-bye.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Okay, I think I would like to play a made up game, please.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of compliments for last week's made up game in that one person WhatsApped me. But in general, it was very popular and very good, which was the Suzy Dent dictionary game.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  I'd like to get Suzy Dent on again. I thought she was great.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  Brilliant, absolutely fantastic guest. So go back and check that one out. But we are on to a brand new made up game, or should I say, a repeat of a classic. But we've got a new jingle to start with.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  Oh, lovely.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  So this is from Joe. Shall I read? I'll read this first. Sure. Hi all. Here's my made up games jingle, which I think channels Dave's favourite. The shiny dance floor, Saturday night game shows of the eighties and nineties. It's a big, brash and brassy theme, so I hope you enjoy it. Joe, here is this week's made up game jingle.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I want to listen to that every morning.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  That's got to be the first thing you hear when you wake up. No, it's no bad day. Imagine listening to that on the way to a funeral.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  You could. I think that puts, I feel like I could now go and be a Saturday night game show host. I can't.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  I think it's actually more weekday morning than Saturday night.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  It's more going for gold than Generation Game.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  I also think that as far as parodies go, that is top tier, that.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's really good.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  That's, that's an excellent parody of the form. Who sent that in, Dave?

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Joe.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  Well, Joe has watched far too many game shows in his time.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  First instrumental made up games jingle potentially, I think.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Oh, surely not.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Surely not, Dave.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  I think we've always had lyrics to made up games jingles. Do you not think?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Wasn't there a mogwai one and a godspeed one?

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, maybe you're right. Right. Scores on the doors for made up games. Ellis's surprise victory. It wasn't a surprise, was it Ellis? I think you always had faith.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  He'd written himself off very early, early on in last week's made up game, but there was a surprise victory in the game dictionary dash with Susie Dent, which sealed a comprehensive hat trick of made up, hat trick?

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's had a good run of form.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Wow. He hasn't put together, wow, okay, here we go. Here's a stat. We love a stat. He hasn't put together three wins in a row since June 2024, over two years ago. Bloody heck.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Doesn't feel great.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Wow, that's a long time.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, doesn't feel great for much.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  Well, you're back. You're back in the big time. Big in the back time.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  When, well, when you went on to win five, an unprecedented five in a row, closing out the third game in the first set in the process. So, hey, if you've got five on the bounce here, Ellis, that would be fantastic news for yourself. Last week's victory took the scores to 40, 15 to Ellis. In the fourth game of the third set, John is leading two games to one, two sets to love overall. So if you get this game, Ellis, I'll say it out loud, but I know you're already thinking it. It will, it will draw you level on games in this set. So it's a big old point. He's wagging his finger as if to say, that wag is either to say, don't you worry, I've got this, or it's to say, there's absolutely no chance I couldn't work it out.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  It's a combination of there's absolutely no chance and stop putting pressure on me.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Okay, sorry.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  Now, before we get into this week's game, oh, there are still some suggestions about how we score made up games in the future after the tennis era closes. Do we want some, do we want some scoring suggestions?

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Test match cricket, Dave.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Ellis, do you want to take the first email from James?

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely. So the match begins with a toss of a coin. The winner of the toss chooses whether to bat or bowl first. While batting, every weekly made up games victory is worth 25 runs. If the fielding player wins the week, they take a wicket. For example, Ellis wins the toss and likes to bat. He wins the first two games and moves to 50 to zero. John wins the next game, making the score 50 to one. Play continues until all 10 wickets have fallen. The innings then swaps, just as in test cricket, the full match consists of four innings.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Duration, there are two possible formats. Number one, the timeless test. The match simply continues until the result is achieved, even if it takes several decades.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  Number two, my favourite, a five day test, sort of, a limit of 80 games, roughly 1.5 years worth of podcast episodes. Did Andy Zaltzman send this in? This introduces the possibility of draws, dramatic fourth innings chases, strategic declarations and the ever-present jeopardy of needing to take all 20 wickets to force win. In short, all the tension in test cricket but stretched across an absurdly long period. Then, of course, John, the franchise adaptation, when the inevitable flood of private equity money and franchise ownership arrives, the format can be streamlined for the T20 era.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  One innings each, five game weeks per innings each win, while batting is with 50 runs, reflecting the increased strike rate, highest score wins. I appreciate that I've devoted an unhealthy amount of thought to this over the last few months, but after hearing made up game cricket mentioned on the podcast, I felt duty bound to write in. That's from James. Thank you, James. And then we've got a darts option. Would you like to hear that?

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Good evening. Good evening, gents. My suggestion for made up game scoring is the dart scoring system. Both players start with a score of 501. After playing a made up game, the winner then has three darts to throw. Their score is then deducted from 501, like in darts. The first person to get to zero wins that leg, first to three legs wins the set. The beauty of the system is that even if one of the competitors is on the verge of cognitive decline, hello, might not win as many made up games as the other, they could still score highly from their darts.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  I like this.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  I hope that makes sense and could be of use. All the best. Rowan.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  I think the problem with that is I'm quite good at darts.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'm rubbish at darts. God, I played dart in Liechtenstein against a drunk man who'd been in the French von Legion for 10 years and I kept missing the ball.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's no good. I love the cricket one.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  I'm not sure each, so essentially each made up game is a ball, a ball bold.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  And either the winner scores runs or the winner takes a wicket. And you've got two innings each, and that's one test over a five test series. It's the ashes of made up games.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  I thought each made up game was going to be the equivalent to one run, but then that would take us centuries.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Well, it doesn't really matter what the, what the number of runs is, but a multiple might be a good idea.

• 45:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  I mean, you, Dave could adjudicate whether if it's a thumping victory, it's a six. If it's a strong victory, it's a four.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  It's a four, yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  If someone's just edged it, it's a single.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Quick single, yeah. I don't know. There's already, I already get enough hits at me when I get the slightly more subjective games maybe not right.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  We don't want to give Dave more brick bats and cat calls.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Thing I want, I don't want more decisions to make as to how successful the made up game was for, but, okay. Well, there's a couple to play for there, but as we, as it stands.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Long way to go yet.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  I mean, this has been, how long's this? This has been two and a half years. The old tennis, the old tennis scoring. My worry with the cricket one is, John, it might go past your retirement, which means we just might never get the conclusion, but that is also looking like that might be the case for the, for the tennis scoring anyway, so.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Oh my God, John's retiring in five years' time.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Eh?

• 46:19Speaker 00

  John's retiring in six years' time, I should say.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  Exactly. This is what I mean. The cricket scoring's no good.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Cricket would be quicker than the tennis, by the way.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe it would. Now onto this week's made up game and it's the return of a classic, because we're all at home. We're going to have another round of Room Raiders. A game we've played a few times before. Dave will give you a category and for each round, you have to go and find the best item within your house to fit that category. You'll have 30 seconds to find your object, then it's up to you to argue the case for why you and your item should win that point. It's one point for each round. Three rounds in total. Remember, if Ellis wins, he will take the fourth game. So there's a lot riding on it. Okay, so round one, you're at home. Go and find the item that makes the best sound.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  The item that makes the best sound. And off you go. Raid those rooms. Headphones are out as they both stroll around the various residences to try and find the item that makes the best sound for round one.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  So the boys have had a little rifle around the houses.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Both poker faced at the minute, so I'm not entirely sure how they've got on. Now, of course, the challenge was for round one, items that make the best sounds. Ellis, we'll come to you first, please, for Room Raiders.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Do I want to go down?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  I knew he was going to do that for the second you said it sound.

• 48:00Speaker 00

  Do I want to go down the obvious route?

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Do I, do I, do I want to?

• 48:07Speaker 00

  Hmm, now then, I've got three, three guitars in this room.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Oh, nothing lame, nothing lamer than a guy playing guitar in his house.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  John, your life.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  You've got an award shelf.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Something so lame about a guy sat with an acoustic guitar on his lap.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  You've got an award shelf and you've got a queen, you've got, you've got a queen shelf in your own. Your best friend plays guitar in his house all the time.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  That's true. Oh, that is true.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Guitarist. It's just something, it's because it was acoustic, it's just, yeah, so, yeah, I could go down. I could play the old, the Martin, or I could play the Guild. Or I could, I've got, actually got time to plug in the strats.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  And so I predicted this. I knew he'd have a go at me for enjoying to play a musical instrument in, in my own time.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Oh, there's a twist. There's a twist on the way.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  The percussion route.

• 49:03Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Because of an administrative error, I have 50 big bags of Skittles.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 49:18Speaker 00

  I've got a massive box of Skittles, which we've given about 20 away to people. On the street. Not allowed to give them to the friends of our children because they're too big. They're the big, like, family sort of sized bags of.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  How did you end up with those? And why did you, why did you pick up a guitar?

• 49:37Speaker 00

  Uh, because I wanted to show that I was thinking outside of the box.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  You want to show that you can play the guitar.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  No, it wasn't that. It was because it's so obvious choosing a musical instrument. And I know that you've got musical instruments in your house as well. So I thought maybe John will choose his bass. So I think he's got an acoustic guitar. He's got an acoustic guitar and it's.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Sold that years ago.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Okay, all right. Then when you, you've, okay, you've sold your guitar. Well done. You're cool and you're the best somehow for not having a guitar. I'm the worst for having one.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I thought about, I thought about, um, getting my guitar, but then I knew I would actually have to play it. And I haven't played it for three years, so I knew it would be so out of tune.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  I'm not so much cooler than me who does play it, that you're the best again.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Oh, come on.

• 50:16Speaker 00

  So I've gone.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Something lame about a guy with an acoustic guitar, like someone at a party going.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  I could pick, I got one there.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  Sit down, nerd, a duck, a bit.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  But I don't do that.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  But I don't do that.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  I don't think that also was done, is that acoustic guitar song? Yeah, I suppose you could play that with an acoustic guitar.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, you could do, yeah. So, um.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Give us a, give us a rattle of your Skittles and other, other confectionery items, please, Alice.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  It's a nice sound.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  It is a nice sound. How did you end up with so many Skittles?

• 50:46Speaker 00

  Because Betty wanted Skittles for her party bags and we bought them online. Oh, sorry, the cat's coming. Um, I considered going to fetch my cat and to try and make it meow. But, um, they're very quiet cats and I thought, uh, I'd probably, hang on, let me let the cat out.

• 51:06Speaker 00

  Betty wanted Skittles for her party bags and we bought far too many. And, uh, ones that were too big by mistake. So we couldn't, in good conscience, give the children these because there's so much sugar. So we, they're just in the house now on the floor.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  I, I, they would have been gone and I would feel so sad if they were, if I'd accidentally ordered 50 bags of Skittles.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, there's a lot.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Mess of packets.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, there's the sort of the original ones in the red packet and then there's Skittle sours in the green packet.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  It's a good, you know, it's good. It's outside the box. Absolutely.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  John, what makes a good sound?

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Well, not a lot of things in my house make sound.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  Well, you're quite anti-sound.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, sound isn't a big, I mean, I could have, like, bought a speaker. But, um, instead I bought something that makes one of my favourite sounds, which is my golf pitch mark repairer.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  It's just a very satisfying sound.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  I don't mind that.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  Oh, flipping heck, he's back in the game.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  So you, it, it goes back into the mechanism and then you approach the green, you've played your shot, your ball's six feet from the hole.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  What's it, what's it for?

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Repairing your pitch mark in golf. I'll show you close up to the camera.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. That does make a.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  It's also a very satisfying action.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And it makes that little ting.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  And it's nice as you're walking down the fairway, there's dew, there's a bit of mist in the air. Your ball's near the hole. You think, oh, I've just got to tap this in and I'm going to win this hole.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  You've got a box with 50 big bags of Skittles and you think to yourself, actually, I need, this, this, this, uh, EPM recording. Needs a little something different when it comes to percussion. So you just pick up a big handful and start shaking them.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  I wouldn't want to be in Dave's shoes right now because this is a tough call.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Rattle it again, Al. Okay, I got my answer.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  It is subjective. Both ASMR maximum there. I love both of them. Really good stuff. The sound I enjoyed the most was the hollow rattle of the Skittles in a bag.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  One nil to Alice.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Thank you. I like, I like John's thinking though.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Both good, both good.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  I used to have a bin that when I dropped it. You know, the. Boo on countdown. It made the boo noise.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  A bin?

• 53:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a metal bin. And if you, if you dropped it on a, on a sort of carpeted floor, it would make the countdown noise. But frustratingly, I've got rid of the bin because I was looking for it and then remembered that it didn't survive a house move.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Round two. Something you would give to your partner's mother for Christmas. So I think we're thinking here, what's going to impress? What's going to get you on side? Maybe you already are on side. Maybe you don't need to be on side as such, but it's, it's the type of thing that an in-law would love.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  Right, so.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  That would make them go, he's a blooming good lad, isn't he, that John slash Alice?

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Okay, all right then.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Okay. Deep in thought, both of them. Headphones are off and they're off.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  John's not left the, the Freddie Mercury shelf yet. There he goes. Now he's off. He had a good hard look at the Freddie she, the Freddie shell, which is a worry.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  John, you're first back.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Can't help but ask. Spent a hell of a long time looking at the Freddie shelf.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 54:56Speaker 03

  No, you did. Was it, what were the thoughts?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Well, that's just where, where all my amusing items are.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, true. Very true. Alice is back as well and you couldn't.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  I mean, if she's a Taskmaster fan, I could knock her knickers off.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  But actual tasks.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, you couldn't give her a.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  Absolutely thrilled with my choices.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  Are you?

• 55:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  Big words from Alice.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Obviously I know my parents-in-law. This is a subjective game. So I know how to let it be, but obviously it's up to Dave.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  It is to an extent. Round two, something you give to your partner's mother for Christmas. John, we'll come to you first.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Um, well, I got a, every year, for some reason, Lou really panics when it's my birthday. Because she feels a pressure I have not put on her to get me a great present because I get Lou good presents. Which has led her in the past to making some odd decisions, um, including, uh, a bottle of ketchup with my name on the label.

• 55:54Speaker 00

  What, like special sort of monogrammed?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Um, and a laser printed Freddie Mercury wooden spoon.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  And this year she called me from a shop, basically asking if I wanted any of the things she could see. Uh, which did result, because she knows I like scented candles, of her getting me an enormous Santorini. Uh, themed, which I believe is a place maybe in.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  In Italy, maybe?

• 56:25Speaker 01

  It's a Santorini summer bougie, uh, scented candle with two wicks. It smells very nice.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Double wick.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Uh, and I'm looking forward to lighting it over winter. Um, but, but I think that's the sort of thing. Ev- every mother-in-law would like if they had been to or had affection for Santorini, wherever that is.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  It's a, it's a Greek island.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  I thought it's, for some reason I thought Amalfi, but anyway, uh, Alice.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  What have we got?

• 56:58Speaker 00

  I've done, I've got two. Uh, my mother-in-law Viv is the most practical person I've ever met. She's fascinated and very driven to find practical answers to sort of life's daily problems. Quite similar to John in that regard. So the, the more practical something is, the more she would like it. I think she would love this for hanging socks. Uh, so we use this when we do our washing. Uh, we've got a kind of, um, it's, it's like a clothes source that's, that's attached to the ceiling. Yeah. To maximise space. So that's where we hang our wet clothes when they come out of the washing machine. But this is, you attach socks and pants to this. I think she would genuinely love it because it's very, very practical.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Very practical.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Useful and I use it sometimes twice a day. And, uh, Jeff, her partner, for years, uh, was a referee in the Derbyshire leagues. He was a very, very enthusiastic, enthusiastic referee at local level. And there's this book, The Impossible Job, The Truly Unbelievable World of Football Referees by William Ralston. Which according to Jamie Carragher is superb and essential.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Alice often does this. He often gilds the lily of being like, bringing down two or three things and going. Well, I could use my guitar. I could use my other guitar, but actually I'm using this guitar. No, it's mother-in-law.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  Oh, right. Okay. Okay. Well, it's mother.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  You pick one, you gotta pick one.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Mother-in-law, then definitely this. It's, um, I wouldn't say it's for generic mothers-in-law, but for my own mother-in-law.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  And I think that's crucial because I think if you've got your, the, your generic partner's mother, something to do with housework. That would be an enormous misstep.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Of course, but I only have one mother-in-law and that's, that's, yeah. Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think, I wouldn't buy that for my mother. Although I think she'd go, oh, this is nice.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Mine is for a theoretical mother-in-law.

• 58:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  So I don't have a mother-in-law.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 58:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. Interesting. Okay. What is the one with both thoughts in play? Because you are right, there is, there is an element of theoretical approach to this. And there is also a subjective approach to this for Alice. So it is interesting. I am going to say that the item that, as I saw first, I thought that would be a nice thing to get to your partner's mother for Christmas.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Is The Impossible Job, the book about refereeing?

• 59:20Speaker 03

  Do you know what?

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Fair enough.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Genuinely the candle.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  But Alice, I hear you. It would be, it's practical. You said that four times and that's, that's crucial to your item.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Mothers-in-law.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Brackets general, across the world like scented candles. Mine is very, very specific as far as gifts go. So yeah, I'll give you that one all.

• 59:41Speaker 03

  One all. As we move to the final round, round three, please go and find for me this, with Halloween around the corner, of course, and we're all big fans.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Christmas stuff up in Oxford.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  Madness. It's been up for three weeks in some shops around here. It shouldn't, it shouldn't be up before Halloween. I think that's a good rule.

• 59:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Um, anyway, round three for Room Raiders. Please find me the spookiest thing in your house.

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  That can mean scary. That can mean horrifying, I suppose, in a way, but it's spooky really.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  The headphones are off.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  And they're off. The question is, how many items will Alice come back with this time to try and, to try and spread his bets? He's back.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  He's back. Didn't have to go far. He was looking at it.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  Wow. Okay. The door swung open. Here he comes.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  He must have lots of spooky stuff because he's got kids and kids like being spooked.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could head up into my loft and get a hell of a lot of spooky stuff.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  He looks, he looks perturbed. He looks like he's not found anything, actually.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  I have found something, but it's not brilliant, if I'm honest.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Hey, back it, back yourself, man. I might blumming love it. Alice, we'll come to you first for what is the spookiest thing in your house?

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  My daughter's copy of The Hunger Games: Catching Fire by Suzanne Collins, which is spooky, I think. I've not read it. And gory and violent.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  Close.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  You've done so well.

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  I just, we've got a completely spook-free house.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did wonder.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  Uh, it's weird because it's not close enough to Halloween yet. I mean, to be honest, the Skittle Sours are pretty spooky, but I've already used them. If I hadn't used the Skittle Sours, I would have gone for the spooky Skittle Sours. Um, and you know, if you, if the AI cat flap wasn't working as well as it is, there'd be a dead mouse in the house and I could have just held that up.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Do you not get like leftover spooky stuff from previous Halloweens, previous costume? We must have like a witch's hat lying around or a magic wand.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  I wouldn't be able to find them in 30 seconds.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  I mean, there is, uh, yeah, I think actually, I think I know where Betty's spooky stuff is, but I wanted to, to stick to the 30 second limit. And so I thought that would be unfair.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Well done, Al. That's very noble. John, scare me.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yep. Well, it's a very treasured possession.

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  I considered a knife, but I thought that that would, I thought that would just be unpleasant.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it's a treasured possession. It was bought for me by my agent for my birthday.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  It's a piece of art by my favourite artist, Fay Eleanor Woods, who listens to this show.

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  Oh, hello Fay. Oh, cool.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  And she does incredible paintings, uh, often focused around sort of dreamlike visions of the female body. Uh, but this one doesn't feature a female body. It is a picture of, um, what always makes me think of me coming down my, for my morning cup of tea when I was drinking. So it's, um, I'll just get the full pic there. There you go. It's a ghostly hand holding out a steaming cup of tea and then walking on the hand is a sort of ghoulish looking, uh, monster in his pyjama bottoms and his slippers. So that's,

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  I've got two pieces by Fay Eleanor Woods and do check her out on Instagram. She's brilliant. You can buy her stuff on there. And that is my spooky picture, which I look at every day.

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  That's very good because I've got a copy of Charles Dickens' Ghost Stories behind me.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  The Signalman's a spooky one.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. And one question I've always wanted to ask is, in A Christmas Carol, the ghost rattled chains, was that a pre-existing ghostly trope or did Dickens invent that?

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Good question.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  Anyway, if you can, uh, if you can answer that, please do email the show. Um, and I think I actually know where Betty's witch's, witch's hat is, but I think yours wins. I think yours is better than a witch's hat. So, um, yeah, if, if David gives this to John.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Better than a book you haven't read.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's spooky.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  It is. I don't think it is spooky.

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  Is it not? What is it? What is it then?

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  It's thrillery. What's it called?

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  It's quite gory.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. What was that film where everyone is on the island and they have to, the last one to live wins came out about 20 years ago.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Lost, not lost.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  No, it's like a kid's version of that famous film, which was based on a Japanese film.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Okay, not seen it.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  It's good. I quite like The Hunger Games.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  Oh, there's this. There's a funny little lizard.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  You can't just keep adding stuff.

• 1:04:36Speaker 00

  Lizards are spooky.

• 1:04:40Speaker 03

  Such a desperate move. Oh, I've got this as well.

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Me and Ellis are going to a Halloween party soon, Dave, and I can't wait to see what he wears.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Well, I did, I did offer him a suggestion, but I don't know whether he'll go for it.

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe. I would just, you know, I'm not, I'm not comfortable in being that nude for that long, Dave. So.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  You don't have to be nude.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  The only way I think Ellis could do a Halloween party is if he went like someone like Dave Bust.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. That's a good shout.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  You've just got to go for an injured player. Go for Van Nistelroy in Training.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Or, um, Gibral Cissé.

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Where he's just running down the win and wing and breaks his thigh.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right then. That's a, well, there's, there's more than.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Terry Butcher.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  There's more than, that's a good idea.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  That's actually a good idea.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's, um, although, uh, yeah, more than one problem with the Dibral Cissé one, but, uh, but yes.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  Shall I announce the winner?

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  What's your verdict, Dave?

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  Well, it's a close call.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Um, not, well, no, the game was close until the end.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  It was, it was.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Um, I'd have to say, because it's a lovely, it's a lovely piece of artwork, the win goes to John. It's the, um, it's the artwork. I mean, it's, it looks like the Incredible Hulk a little bit and he's stamping down on his cup of tea and he's got blood on his mouth, is he? A little bit?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's lots of blood in her pictures and sometimes we as well.

• 1:06:04Speaker 00

  That's a genuinely spooky thing, whereas most people don't have spooky things in their houses, sort of 12 months of the year.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yes, it's not like a Halloween item. It's not an item that's necessarily intended to be.

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  Spooky.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Well, it's just generally spooky.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  Well, what's the artist's name again, John?

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Fay Eleanor Woods.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  Fay Eleanor Woods.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Give her a follow on Instagram.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  I mean, that's, we're whacking that on the carer, aren't we?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Oh, big time.

• 1:06:28Speaker 03

  Later this week. Um, okay. Great. Thank you. That is today's made up game. John wins, which means it's now 40, 30 to Ellis. So you're still in control, Al.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Still in control, but we might be heading to a juice, Dave.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Uh, great. That's this week's made up game.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Right. Well, let's finish on a mad dad. We love hearing about, uh, the crazy adventures of your parents. So send them to [email protected]. My dad, when he brought his first non-stick frying pan, kept the instructions and stuck them on the wall next to it.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  Actual real wooden clogs.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  And set about eating what must have been north of 24 egg canapes.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  He then proceeded to empty 40 litres or so.

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  What haunted the timber striker mad dads are mad.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Dads are mad.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  Dads are mad.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  This week's mad dad comes in from Elliot and Elliot says, hello, my fair laddies. Longtime listener, first time emailer. I have in my possession a truly remarkable tale from the lesser spotted subgenre of mad dads, mad stepdads. I think mad stepdads are, uh, there's, I think there's an even madder energy about stepdads.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  I totally agree. Yeah.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  Because I think they've sort of maybe had their days of hiding, hiding their madness, maybe with, uh, their own kids, if they've had kids before, and they're sort of maybe a little bit more set in their ways.

• 1:08:04Speaker 00

  And difficult sit, you know, to go in, new family.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  And maybe they also take a certain pride in being unapologetic about their quirks.

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Because they're like, this is me. Like it or lump it. Anyway, Elliot goes on. The story takes place when I was 14 years old, about five years after my stepdad joined our family. He's a very successful maths professor. He's written books, delivered lectures around the world and has an extensive Wikipedia page that he promises isn't self-authored. It's in advance of one of these lectures that our story of utter madness begins. It starts innocently enough. A lecture in Helsinki required an early start, a morning flight and a good night's sleep. As any self-respecting person knows, Finland operates two hours ahead of the UK. In an attempt to acclimatise to the Finnish working day, my stepdad thought he'd try something new. The day before the flight, he shifted his schedule forwards

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  two hours, finished work at 4pm, ate dinner at five, and by 8pm, he was tucked up in bed, ready for the morning flight. The very next evening, he returned home with a spring in his step. The lecture had gone well, core concepts were clearly articulated and questions from the audience addressed with ease. It was clear that he had to continue this approach and a trip to New York City several months later was the perfect opportunity. Being five hours behind the UK, he'd given himself two days to prepare and that meant that on the eve of the flight, he was operating on a very late schedule. My mum, not wanting to be part of all of this, banished him to the study on the top floor. Again, the experiment was a success. My stepdad now convinced he'd beaten jet life forever.

• 1:09:44Speaker 00

  Something notoriously hard to do.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  This is where the tale takes an absurd hilarious turn. An upcoming conference in China was to be his clown crowning glory, his moon landing, the Dunkirk of our time. Proof in the pudding of a year-long campaign to essentially beat time. The trip to Beijing required several days of planning, being seven hours ahead, and the scale of the project needed a buy-in from everyone. Work and sleep patterns were gradually brought forward until finally we arrive at the night before the flight. Curtains were drawn early and noise kept to a minimum. This was obviously all completely mad. We were now on Beijing time.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  The madness continues as I return from school on the day, tiptoeing up the stairs to my bedroom at half past three P M. I turn the Playstation on and during a particularly stressful game of FIFA, I lose all sense of the blanket ban on general activity and shout out loud. Disaster. I hear the study door swing open as thumping steps pad across the corridor. My bleary eyed stepdad steams into the room and with a few choice words, shouts, what on earth are you playing at? Do you have any idea what time it is? Our eyes move instinctively to the clock on my bedroom wall. It was a quarter to four.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  I'm about to apologise when his rage softens and our mouths curl from smirks to genuine laughter. He was quick to accept his follies and return to his study. It's safe to say that an experiment on this scale was never attempted again.

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  That's hilarious.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  I, that's the epicentre of a mad dad.

• 1:11:29Speaker 00

  Also, having to readjust when you come back.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  Would be really, would be really strange. But going to bed at three P M. I mean, it's just so crazy.

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  Also, what was he telling work? Because that's quite, it's quite an understanding boss for you to be that flexible.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Well, maybe he's working from home because he's a maths professor. So he's sort of working his study in his chambers.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  The thing with the Finnish one is that you are doing what you need to because they're only two hours ahead.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also it makes sense. If you've got an early flight, you just go to bed early.

• 1:12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  That's where the normal person's approach would end.

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. The New York one, I'm quite impressed with that.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  But the, the, the Beijing example, going, going to sleep seven hours before you usually would, because they're seven hours ahead, is just so difficult for your day to day life and for your family. But it's very funny, especially the, the punchline of what time do you think this is? And it's three forty five in the afternoon. It's just come back from school. And he's bleary eyed because he's already asleep because, because he's actually sort of, he's exacting his plan. That's a very funny email. I loved that. But yeah, your mad stepdads are very, very welcome.

• 1:12:45Speaker 03

  I've missed mad dads. We should do more of them because it's great.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, keep them coming in and your shame wells too. We can only read them out if we got them.

• 1:12:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  But thank you all for listening very much. We'll be with you again next week. Bye bye.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Goodbye.

• 1:13:07Speaker 05

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• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Thanks for listening to the show and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Ellis and John for more content.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  And you can watch highlights of every episode over on our YouTube page at Ellis and John.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  Plus, you can find all things E J J R, including links to our Patreon, our merch and much more by heading to ellisonjohn.com. See you next time.