Pod Insights Elis James and John Robins #540 - Hate Merch, (Non-Predator) and Institutional/Pedantic Failures About this episode “Life’s too short to drink bad wine, when people are wine, and drinking is being near them and having them in your life.” Another wise and pithy quote from the mind of John Robins. You’d think that’s included in his wise and pithy autobiography about alcohol. In fact it’s not, because he gives them out for free here. Gratis.
Speaking of all the relevant pith, John’s a bestseller! Isn’t that neat. No. 2 General Hardback. And No. 1 if you include a vast variety of audio platforms which Big Bird Book won’t care to mention.
Elsewhere, Dave’s brought a present, a listener has been radicalised against Elis and there are yet more sackings in John’s crosshairs.
Plus, for the RSS & Patreon lot amongst you, you have been ringfenced! And in said ringfence the boys demonstrate their expertise of doing yet another incredibly easy to understand plug.
And do remember, t-shirts can be given to people for different reasons.
[email protected] mailto:[email protected] if you work in the Treasury and have jargon to send us.
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Transcript 12,663 words · 7 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Before we start this episode, we want to invite you along to the adventures of Alice and John.
0:04 Speaker 01 If you head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn, you can join us on our monthly escapades, including...
0:10 Speaker 00 Miniumpicks.
0:11 Speaker 01 It's the strangest legal jump in the history of long jump.
0:14 Speaker 00 Birdwatching.
0:15 Speaker 02 My two favourite things are birds and football.
0:18 Speaker 01 And you can watch our latest episode now, where we tackle an escape room.
0:22 Speaker 03 So John is absolutely flying here. Well, Alice is there as well.
0:26 Speaker 02 Alice is there as well, Dave.
0:27 Speaker 03 We did the first three, Dave, for complete chill.
0:32 Speaker 00 So for adventures and so much more, head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn now.
0:40 Speaker 04 I started Ornot in 2013 and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non-technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end, and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. Start your free trial on Shopify.com.
1:09 Speaker 05 Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
2:02 Speaker 00 Hello everyone, thank you very much for downloading this latest episode of Ellis and John and Dave's doing something very sneaky.
2:09 Speaker 01 Dave's gone all silly.
2:10 Speaker 00 He's gone all silly, he's just said, "Oh nice one everyone, we're all dressed in black, I'm wearing blue and he's wearing green."
2:17 Speaker 03 I looked outwards, as in not including myself in the attire analysis.
2:23 Speaker 00 Yeah.
2:23 Speaker 03 I was in quite a bright...
2:24 Speaker 00 The attire analysis. That's how Pep judges clothes.
2:27 Speaker 03 The attire analysis. And that's basically Black Alice, this is like the blue dress debacle.
2:32 Speaker 00 Similar to a Scottish rugby top.
2:35 Speaker 03 Yes.
2:35 Speaker 00 In terms of clue, sorry, in terms of colour.
2:38 Speaker 01 But with a pocket on.
2:39 Speaker 00 But with a pocket on.
2:40 Speaker 01 They wouldn't need that.
2:41 Speaker 00 No, no, no, no.
2:42 Speaker 01 Unless it's to put in their reputation, I don't know whether they would. They're good. Haven't they won recently?
2:48 Speaker 00 They're alright, the Scottish rugby team.
2:50 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:50 Speaker 00 They beat England in the Six Nations.
2:52 Speaker 03 We'll allow you to talk about rugby for 30 seconds.
2:54 Speaker 00 No, I don't want to talk about rugby. I wanted to talk about French Rugby League last week because I think it's a very interesting story.
3:01 Speaker 03 It is.
3:01 Speaker 00 But I was talked over and I'm over it now. I'll just save it for a different podcast.
3:06 Speaker 01 What about my attire analysis?
3:08 Speaker 00 Well, you're wearing my favourite, it's a new one, but it's my favourite of your Frank Zappa t-shirts.
3:15 Speaker 01 Well, it's a newbie Frank Zappa t-shirt, given to me by the dear Sam of Treacherous Cretins, the country's leading Frank Zappa tribute band.
3:24 Speaker 00 Oh, I didn't know that.
3:25 Speaker 01 And he came to see my tour show in London and he gave me this t-shirt because he's kind and an insane guitarist.
3:35 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
3:35 Speaker 01 Which he have to be.
3:36 Speaker 00 Yes.
3:37 Speaker 01 In this game. And they toured with Bobby Mars, who was in Frank Zappa's band in the 80s.
3:41 Speaker 00 Did they?
3:42 Speaker 01 Yes, they did.
3:44 Speaker 00 And is he, so he likes you?
3:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, he likes me.
3:49 Speaker 03 Why is that so surprising?
3:51 Speaker 00 No, no, no, but he...
3:51 Speaker 01 He didn't give me a t-shirt because he hates me.
3:53 Speaker 00 No, but have you met him before?
3:54 Speaker 01 Yes, I've seen Treacherous Cretins twice.
3:57 Speaker 00 Oh, right, okay.
3:58 Speaker 03 I once got given a t-shirt because someone hated me.
4:01 Speaker 01 Did you?
4:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:02 Speaker 00 Talk to me, Dave, how does that work? What did it say? Did it say I'm a big idiot on it or something?
4:06 Speaker 01 I stink. Did it say I stink and an arrow pointing up and down?
4:11 Speaker 00 And down?
4:11 Speaker 03 No.
4:12 Speaker 00 I would say down is better than up.
4:14 Speaker 03 I'm not sure, I don't know if I can actually.
4:16 Speaker 01 Change their names.
4:18 Speaker 03 Okay.
4:19 Speaker 01 Clive.
4:20 Speaker 00 Marvelous Clive.
4:21 Speaker 01 Marvelous Clive.
4:23 Speaker 03 There was someone who I used to work with who wasn't very happy with the decision I made in my career path. And I got given a T-shirt with my nickname on at an event I was invited to. I think purely so this person could give me the T-shirt with my nickname on.
4:38 Speaker 01 Was the nickname shouted out at the Free Trade Hall that you stayed near recently?
4:42 Speaker 03 Yeah. So that was interesting. I left that party quite soon afterwards.
4:47 Speaker 01 Well, you don't want to.
4:48 Speaker 03 Because it was an odd move.
4:49 Speaker 01 But life's too short to drink bad wine when people are wine. And drinking is being near them and having them in your life.
4:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, and do you know what you two are for me? You two are my Aperol spritzes.
4:58 Speaker 01 Are we?
5:01 Speaker 03 I don't actually love that. That was a bad example.
5:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, it tastes like earwax.
5:04 Speaker 03 Too bitter, yeah. Anyway, so yeah, so T-shirts can be given to people for different reasons.
5:10 Speaker 00 Whoa, I didn't know that.
5:12 Speaker 01 I've always said that, Dave. T-shirts can be given to people for different reasons.
5:17 Speaker 00 Yes, I've never, like, you've got hate watching, people watching TV programmes that are terrible.
5:23 Speaker 03 Hmm.
5:24 Speaker 00 But I've never heard of a hate T-shirt before.
5:26 Speaker 03 A hate merch?
5:26 Speaker 00 The hate merch is new on me.
5:28 Speaker 03 Because Lent's were gone to there to make that T-shirt, which is interesting.
5:32 Speaker 00 It's funny, isn't it? It's like grudges or revenge missions. There are so many points where you think, is this worth it?
5:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:42 Speaker 00 Can I be bothered? Itching powder in the pants or whatever. Can I be bothered?
5:46 Speaker 01 There's also, I mean, I've had two unwearable T-shirts. The self-esteem merch and the very kind listener who sent in my love takes piles T-shirt with Cameron Winter on.
5:57 Speaker 03 Well, you've been adjacent to three unwearable T-shirts then, because one of them was in our own merch collection, of course, as well.
6:03 Speaker 01 Ah, yes, we've had an email about that.
6:05 Speaker 00 The old Predator range.
6:07 Speaker 03 The old Predator range.
6:09 Speaker 01 That's, that's nice and neat.
6:11 Speaker 00 In fact, I've got this, I've got this email in front of me. Here we go.
6:13 Speaker 03 Thank you, Alice.
6:14 Speaker 00 Dear Sports, Sports and Spoilsport.
6:19 Speaker 00 It was.
6:21 Speaker 03 All right.
6:21 Speaker 00 It was lovely to hear myself mentioned in episode number 537, but things took a slight turn when. It suggested I might actually be a predator. So I would like some legal right to reply. Fair enough, I think.
6:33 Speaker 01 So this is the person I tapped on the shoulder at the Big Thief gig because they were wearing our age in school t-shirt, also known as the Predator range. And I felt that they hadn't recognised me because their reaction was so blank.
6:49 Speaker 00 Someone said that if I do the Saltford connection, I should, I should open with Agent Kegool.
6:54 Speaker 01 Oh, nice, nice.
6:58 Speaker 00 A chap called Ollie said that. Very good. Anyway.
7:00 Speaker 01 That bell's for you, Ollie.
7:02 Speaker 00 Yeah. I was visiting London to take part in a previously comprehensively covered TCS sponsored event. A thoughtful friend treated me to a gig a few days before to take my mind off gels, pasting, and the constant thought of essing oneself in a heavily photographed environment.
7:16 Speaker 01 So this listener was competing in the TCS London Marathon?
7:20 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:21 Speaker 01 And going to Big Thief?
7:22 Speaker 00 And going to Big Thief, just like you.
7:24 Speaker 01 Just like, we're just like each other.
7:25 Speaker 00 Yeah. Feeling safe in the Metrop, I gave my top quality Cymru Connection shirt a rare trip out. I live opposite a school and my partner isn't keen.
7:37 Speaker 00 My partner isn't keen.
7:39 Speaker 01 You can imagine it being on your file.
7:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. After arriving at the Brixton Academy and enduring an extensive and baffling queue, we settled in to enjoy Big Thief.
7:49 Speaker 01 It was mad and badly organised.
7:51 Speaker 00 I was heading to get water when John tapped me on the shoulder. Now, knowing there was a slim chance of meeting the Megamind mid TCS-a-thon, I had rehearsed many different lines in case of a chance meeting. Good luck as an XDG. Oh, that'd have been good.
8:06 Speaker 01 Nice.
8:07 Speaker 00 Netflix doesn't know what they're missing.
8:09 Speaker 01 Correct.
8:11 Speaker 00 Right through to a meaningful chat about how do you cope and how it's helped me cope with my son's illness. Caught off guard. I'm very bad when I'm caught off guard. If I'm caught off guard, I will not, I will behave so differently to how I would if I was, had even a minute to prepare.
8:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, because if someone taps Brad Pitt on the shoulder, he knows it's because he's been recognised. If someone taps you on the shoulder, you think it's because you've dropped your wallet.
8:36 Speaker 00 Yes, yes, yes.
8:39 Speaker 00 Very astute.
8:40 Speaker 03 There's a ginnall.
8:41 Speaker 00 He hasn't used all of his wisdom on the book.
8:43 Speaker 01 Oh, there's still a bit left.
8:44 Speaker 00 Could you get that into a second edition somehow?
8:47 Speaker 01 Maybe the paperback.
8:48 Speaker 00 Maybe the paperback, okay. Caught off guard and partially deaf due to overzealous ear protection, Ellis's "Don't meet your heroes" advice rang in my head and I played it too cool and in exchange, left John without the recognition he sorely deserves. In summary, don't meet your heroes, but if they tap you on the shoulder at an indie folk gate, for God's sake, tell them you back, Britton. Shaun in Wolverhampton, PCDNP, brackets, non predator.
9:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, non predator, can't emphasise that enough.
9:17 Speaker 00 Can't emphasise that enough.
9:18 Speaker 01 Shaun is not a predator, he just dresses like one.
9:21 Speaker 03 What did you say to him again?
9:23 Speaker 01 I just tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Nice t-shirt."
9:25 Speaker 03 Oh, great, great.
9:26 Speaker 01 Expecting him to go, "Whaa?" like that.
9:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, just like that.
9:31 Speaker 01 As if, "Oh my God, it's the man who came up with the idea for this inappropriate t-shirt."
9:36 Speaker 00 The man who invented the t-shirt, my wife hates.
9:40 Speaker 03 Yeah. He played it cool. I think that's cool in itself.
9:43 Speaker 01 It is pretty cool, actually.
9:44 Speaker 03 Well done.
9:46 Speaker 01 Good band. Terrible queuing system.
9:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:49 Speaker 01 Cannot emphasise that enough.
9:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm going there in a couple of weeks' time to watch the thirdies.
9:52 Speaker 01 Get there a day early.
9:53 Speaker 00 A day early, okay.
9:54 Speaker 03 So where were you stood? Because I think Brixton is a great venue.
9:57 Speaker 00 I love Brixton, yeah.
9:58 Speaker 03 Unless you just can't even penetrate any of the audience.
10:01 Speaker 01 No, couldn't get into it.
10:02 Speaker 03 Right, yes, that's really...
10:03 Speaker 01 The queue was, I'm not joking, half a mile long.
10:07 Speaker 00 I drove past.
10:08 Speaker 01 Around the block because they search every single person and they've only got four doors to get in.
10:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:15 Speaker 01 So you've got 3,000 people going in four at a time.
10:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wonder whether it's some, because it was closed for quite a while, wasn't it?
10:23 Speaker 01 It was because they had this terrible crush at the door.
10:25 Speaker 03 So, yeah, I don't know.
10:27 Speaker 01 But they need to find, I mean...
10:29 Speaker 03 Don't reopen unless you can figure out how to deal with it.
10:31 Speaker 01 Have a system.
10:31 Speaker 03 Have a system.
10:34 Speaker 00 I am looking forward to the gig though, but that little bit of information has made me change my plans.
10:40 Speaker 01 Well, the last time I saw Super Furry Animals was at the Brixton Academy with you, and I was drinking a two pint glass of rum and Diet Coke.
10:47 Speaker 00 Yes, you were.
10:48 Speaker 01 There was a huge gap around me.
10:49 Speaker 00 And obviously, there was, and I can tell you why, because I'm obviously obsessed with the furries, and they're one of the greatest bands ever, literally of all time.
10:57 Speaker 01 Oh no, it's one of my worst memories.
10:58 Speaker 00 But John's not enormously au fait, Robin is, the lovely Robin is, the lovely Rodri is, but John isn't. So what he was doing, sort of a minute into each song, once he'd worked out the melody.
11:09 Speaker 03 Oh no, I don't even know what's coming, but oh no.
11:13 Speaker 00 He would just sing, "I'm really cool."
11:15 Speaker 01 Every single song, I sang, "I'm really cool," with the lyrics.
11:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:22 Speaker 03 That must have gone down well.
11:24 Speaker 01 Was drinking a septuple rum and Diet Coke.
11:27 Speaker 00 Yeah. But we've got some funny photos of that night.
11:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, with our tops off.
11:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:32 Speaker 01 And an enormous gap around me.
11:34 Speaker 00 At a show that had sold out.
11:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it's crowded in there, as we know.
11:40 Speaker 01 It's good to change.
11:42 Speaker 00 It is good to change.
11:43 Speaker 03 It's well done.
11:44 Speaker 00 Sometimes you'd sing, instead of "I'm really cool," you'd sing, "This is my vibe."
11:48 Speaker 01 Like a toddler.
11:52 Speaker 00 So a song would, you know, they'd go, you know, this song's called "Play It Cool" from our second record, Radiator, but you'd sing, if you liked that one, you'd sing, "Oh, this is my vibe," instead of "I'm really cool."
12:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:05 Speaker 00 It was fun, I enjoyed it.
12:06 Speaker 03 No, that's annoying.
12:09 Speaker 01 If I was me, watching me, I would think I would have committed arson on myself.
12:15 Speaker 00 Right.
12:16 Speaker 01 I'd have burnt myself down if that was me, watching me.
12:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:22 Speaker 01 Imagine if I'd been sat, if I'd been at the Big Thief gig and the guy in the Predator t-shirt had been singing, "I'm really cool."
12:28 Speaker 00 And "This is my vibe."
12:29 Speaker 01 Shut your mouth and not. I'd have been like, mate, what a planet you are.
12:34 Speaker 00 It is funny as well because you got upset by someone eating pistachio nuts at a gig a couple of months ago. And on the show we did after that, after that event, you said that you were never going to watch live music.
12:45 Speaker 01 I did, you retired.
12:48 Speaker 00 You said you'd retired from live music because you'd eaten pistachios and Earth in Hackney.
12:54 Speaker 01 I contain multitudes.
12:56 Speaker 00 You do.
12:57 Speaker 01 Is one way of looking at it.
12:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:59 Speaker 01 I embrace contradiction.
13:02 Speaker 03 Yes, you're a paradox.
13:03 Speaker 01 I am inconsistent.
13:04 Speaker 00 I did, I did, um, yeah, I did a gig last night at ABC in Chelsea and someone came up to me, listened to the show, came up to me and said, tell John I love this, I've already finished it. And then we had a chat about you and I did say, the guy's unpredictable.
13:19 Speaker 03 That's what keeps us all on our toes.
13:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah.
13:21 Speaker 03 On Gig Four parts, I went to watch Maximo Park a few weeks ago, just as a bit of a nostalgia hit.
13:28 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. They had some absolute hummus though.
13:30 Speaker 03 That debut album, a certain trigger. I mean, it's, it was fan blumintastic.
13:34 Speaker 00 He gave me some hummus once.
13:36 Speaker 03 Paul Smith?
13:37 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:37 Speaker 03 Why?
13:38 Speaker 00 Because my then girlfriend was DJing at the Reading Festival. And so her dressing room was next to his because they must have been closing the second stage, I think.
13:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:50 Speaker 00 So everyone was milling around and Maximo Park, for whatever reason, to be given a load of hummus.
13:55 Speaker 03 I had them down as a hummus band though.
13:57 Speaker 00 And he was just walking around, like, does anyone want any hummus leg? I've got loads in me dressing room.
14:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'll have some please, Paul. Thanks.
14:04 Speaker 00 Thanks, Paul.
14:05 Speaker 03 Good band. Anyway, the two people in front of me were clearly, and this was basically, it was just a full crowd of 40 year old men at Maximo Park because they're all just trying to relive their university youth.
14:15 Speaker 00 And there's nothing wrong with that.
14:17 Speaker 03 Nothing wrong with that at all. And obviously these two guys in front of me, so excited. But what they were doing, and one of their girlfriends was in the middle of them both. So they're kind of, they were doing this across the girlfriend in the middle who wasn't as bothered about being there. But they were miming out every line of the song, kind of to each other really excitedly, saying, I've been on a call in the middle of the night.
14:38 Speaker 01 Like James Corden in those putrid carpool karaoke videos.
14:43 Speaker 00 But it was hilarious because it was just this.
14:47 Speaker 01 When I watch them, they make me glad the world's gonna win.
14:50 Speaker 03 It's exactly, it was exactly like that. But the funniest bit was, was just this, there was one of their girlfriends just stood in the middle of them both.
14:57 Speaker 00 Oh, she's had a bad evening.
15:00 Speaker 03 And they mimed every song across her to each other, but they were having a good time. It was funny for 10 seconds, that sort of guy.
15:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:07 Speaker 01 Here's a cue. How long into a relationship is long enough so that you can no longer get the ick? Cause if that was a first date, you would be like, no way.
15:21 Speaker 00 But then eventually like, this is my life now.
15:24 Speaker 01 Well, I guess you get to a point where, say Izzy suddenly started calling you monsieur.
15:34 Speaker 01 Or, I don't know, like, like picked food out of her teeth with an old bit of twine.
15:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. Or a train ticket.
15:44 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, or a train ticket. Now you would be like, maybe find it charming, or you might say, what the hell are you doing that for?
15:52 Speaker 00 It just wouldn't bother me. It would, um.
15:53 Speaker 03 You've gone past that point.
15:54 Speaker 00 You've passed it. It just washes over you. But yeah, date number six, you're like, oh god.
15:59 Speaker 01 Thank god I found that out now.
16:01 Speaker 03 Yes. Because if you're the girlfriend and, and you've been with this guy for 20 years, since the uni day, you go, this is quite sweet. He's not seen his mate for 20 years.
16:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's roll your eyes.
16:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:11 Speaker 01 He's a little teddy bear and I'm gonna ravish him when I get home.
16:16 Speaker 01 But if that was like.
16:20 Speaker 00 Have you been in a relationship, John?
16:29 Speaker 01 But yeah, that would stick in your craw.
16:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, it stuck in my craw.
16:32 Speaker 00 That's such a good question.
16:35 Speaker 03 Hmm.
16:36 Speaker 00 Eventually it all washes over you and then you've got acceptance. Or if you don't have Acceptance, you have divorce.
16:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, it becomes, yeah.
16:44 Speaker 01 Well, maybe email us if you got the ick over a year into a relationship about a new behaviour.
16:50 Speaker 03 A year is a good threshold, I think, yeah. But in a year into a relationship, it should just be fine.
16:57 Speaker 01 Maybe if you'd been married 20 years and you suddenly heard him breathing through his nose for the first time.
17:02 Speaker 03 Well, I think that does happen.
17:04 Speaker 00 Oh, that happens, yeah.
17:05 Speaker 01 But you but you'd notice it for the first time and it ends the relationship.
17:09 Speaker 00 And it's whistling.
17:10 Speaker 01 I could not, I could not, I could in a million, billion, squillion years. Anyway. With a man, weirdly, I don't think it would be a problem with a, something about men breathing loudly through their noses makes me want to live.
17:23 Speaker 03 And you can almost hear the flap.
17:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, you can just, you can just imagine that the tubes, there's hairs.
17:31 Speaker 00 And there's sinuses and all sorts and stuff that should have been sorted out by the NHS 20 years ago.
17:37 Speaker 01 He needs a sort of 50 year olds MOT.
17:40 Speaker 00 And a nasal MOT.
17:43 Speaker 03 And on that note, we do need to move on because we have a guest waiting for us because there's an exciting weekend ahead, isn't there? In the sporting calendar.
17:51 Speaker 01 Yes, indeedy doody. Two of the country's greats will be finally on the same team.
17:59 Speaker 03 Is it the first year?
18:00 Speaker 00 No, we were on the same team last year.
18:02 Speaker 01 Were we?
18:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, because he's got the win then, obviously I got to celebrate, but it was nothing to do with me, I was just there.
18:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:07 Speaker 01 But that's all right, that's what teams are.
18:09 Speaker 00 What team sport is.
18:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it is the annual Taskmaster Chesham United charity football game, though I'm not entirely sure it is for charity.
18:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, it is.
18:19 Speaker 01 Is it?
18:20 Speaker 00 It's last year, some of it went to Mind in Buckinghamshire and some of it went to the club, I think.
18:27 Speaker 01 It's quite low key on the on the promo.
18:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, but it definitely went to Mind last year.
18:33 Speaker 01 And Chesham itself.
18:34 Speaker 00 Yes.
18:34 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:35 Speaker 00 And obviously Alex.
18:36 Speaker 01 And Alex as well. Oh, he's on the lion's share.
18:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:40 Speaker 01 So Ellis and I are on egg.
18:43 Speaker 00 I can't remember if we're egg or chicken. I think we're egg.
18:45 Speaker 01 I think we're egg.
18:46 Speaker 00 Let's ask our captain.
18:47 Speaker 01 Ask our captain. Joining us now is Taskmaster Champion of Champions due to a vendetta that the production team have against my genius. It's Matthew Bainton. It doesn't bode well that you don't know what team you're on.
19:03 Speaker 00 On the day, don't you worry, we'll know on the day.
19:06 Speaker 06 We're Chicken City.
19:07 Speaker 00 Are we Chicken City? I'm always Chicken City.
19:10 Speaker 01 Okay, good. Matthew, talk us through your feelings and thoughts as the captain in the run up to the big day.
19:20 Speaker 06 I also think, by the way, you just reframed John's goal as the winner. I think it was an equaliser and then we lost on pens.
19:27 Speaker 00 And it went to a penalty shootout, that was it. But it was.
19:29 Speaker 01 Oh, sorry. Are we talking about my last minute equaliser that I scored as a goalkeeper from a free kick?
19:35 Speaker 06 It was incredible.
19:37 Speaker 01 Oh, that's the one, yeah.
19:38 Speaker 00 It was great sporting drama and it allowed the sporting drama to continue to penalties.
19:42 Speaker 01 It was, it was Gerrard against West Ham.
19:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
19:47 Speaker 01 Gerrard! Robins!
19:51 Speaker 01 So how are you feeling, Matthew?
19:53 Speaker 06 I'm, I'm feeling good, yeah. I mean, anyone who's watched me on Taskmaster knows that I can make a win look like a defeat. So, you know, in defeat or victory, I think I'll probably conduct myself in exactly the same way.
20:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, and sometimes Greg can score a win like it's a defeat as well, just to, just to, you know, keep the system.
20:15 Speaker 00 You've let it go, though. Why, why don't you send him a long email?
20:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, another one.
20:22 Speaker 01 Matthew, what, so now we know what team we're on.
20:29 Speaker 01 Ellis is very much a super sub.
20:30 Speaker 00 I'll be an impact sub because I'm doing the half marathon for charity the next day.
20:34 Speaker 01 You are?
20:34 Speaker 00 Yeah. Annie McGrath, friend of the show, is also playing on Saturday. She's doing the half and she's desperate to play the full night, dude. She's lost her mind.
20:41 Speaker 01 She's lost her mind.
20:42 Speaker 00 She's lost her mind.
20:43 Speaker 06 I think she's been desperate for a goal in, in this comedy game for a long time.
20:48 Speaker 01 I have got inside Annie's head.
20:51 Speaker 00 Have you now?
20:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, with, with a couple of crucial saves.
20:54 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
20:56 Speaker 01 But team talk, hit me, motivate me, because I only remembered I was doing it when I showed my diary on Monday.
21:03 Speaker 06 I mean, play for the badge. Obviously, you have a huge loyalty to Chicken City.
21:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:09 Speaker 06 Play for the chickens, scramble the eggs.
21:12 Speaker 01 Yes, that's a nice phrase, I'll write that down.
21:15 Speaker 06 I suppose they could say fry the chickens.
21:18 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
21:19 Speaker 06 I mean, we've all got our own.
21:21 Speaker 00 Yes, horrible thoughts.
21:24 Speaker 00 Why, why, other than being one of our best players, why have you been selected as captain?
21:29 Speaker 06 Honestly, I don't know. It was Maisy last year. Alex hadn't even told me I was the captain. It was just on the team sheet.
21:40 Speaker 06 I think it's, I think it's a fairly arbitrary, I think if anything, he's looking at the list and going, who's definitely showing up?
21:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:48 Speaker 01 Well, do you want the team for, do you want the Egg United and Chicken City team?
21:52 Speaker 00 Go on then, because I've never been a captain at anything in my life.
21:55 Speaker 01 So Chicken City, Ashling B, Tom Rosenthal, I think, are they co-managers?
22:02 Speaker 00 Yes, Tom is definitely managing.
22:03 Speaker 06 I thought Ashling was Egg. I thought she was historically.
22:07 Speaker 01 Okay, this is going so well.
22:09 Speaker 06 Egg United.
22:10 Speaker 01 She, well, she's on the Chicken City team sheet.
22:12 Speaker 06 Yeah.
22:12 Speaker 01 Then Tom Rosenthal, Johnny J, John Robins, M Bainton, C, James Gill, Chloe Petz, Matt Winning, Hugh Dennis, Maisy Adam, Stuart Laws.
22:23 Speaker 01 A player who I think is a Chesham player, S, Tryes.
22:27 Speaker 00 Stephen Tryes, comedian.
22:29 Speaker 01 Stephen Tryes, Stephen Tryes.
22:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, but he'll be good.
22:32 Speaker 01 Lou Sanders, Tom Price, Toby Tarrant.
22:35 Speaker 00 Oh, nice.
22:36 Speaker 01 Elis James.
22:37 Speaker 00 Hey.
22:38 Speaker 01 I think a player from.
22:43 Speaker 00 Imagine if this is, imagine if this is Pep who's announcing his team.
22:47 Speaker 01 Gerald.
22:48 Speaker 00 I think I know this one.
22:49 Speaker 01 Olaf Falafel, El Rolfe and G Fraser.
22:54 Speaker 06 I'm not, does anyone know about Olaf's footballing credentials?
23:00 Speaker 00 I know, I do know that my kids absolutely loved his book about farting.
23:07 Speaker 00 Like, we, I must have read his book about farting.
23:11 Speaker 00 Conservative estimate, 500 times.
23:14 Speaker 01 Did it increase or decrease farting in the house?
23:18 Speaker 00 That has always remained a constant. It was just, it is a very funny book, but yeah, I don't know. How good a footballer he is.
23:25 Speaker 01 So what are the rules this year, Matt?
23:28 Speaker 06 Oh, good question. Um, I think this year, if you hit the woodwork, it counts as a goal.
23:34 Speaker 01 Does it? Wow, that's a nice rule.
23:37 Speaker 06 Yeah, I wouldn't mind that applying to the, to, to all football.
23:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, definitely.
23:42 Speaker 00 I hit the woodwork playing five side a couple of weeks ago and it just looks so real.
23:46 Speaker 06 It looks so good. It looks better than a goal.
23:49 Speaker 00 Yes, it does.
23:50 Speaker 01 The keeper, VAR shows the keeper to have had it covered.
23:54 Speaker 03 Well, what do you mean?
23:56 Speaker 01 Like, well, if the keeper's fingers are on the bottom of the crossbar.
24:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:00 Speaker 01 And the ball hits the crossbar.
24:02 Speaker 06 I don't think keepers are working within that finer margin of error. I think if they're covering it, if it's going wide, they're not going, that's hitting the post, I'll leave it.
24:12 Speaker 01 No, no, no. What I mean is if they'd gone for it.
24:14 Speaker 06 Yeah.
24:15 Speaker 01 Had it been on target, it would go in.
24:17 Speaker 03 No, because that's, with these news rules of the, the post classing as the goal, the keeper needs to cover the post as well as the goal.
24:24 Speaker 01 The keeper, but that man makes the.
24:26 Speaker 03 Well, that's their fault.
24:27 Speaker 06 Yeah. It makes corners interesting because you could just try and hit the near post, couldn't you?
24:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's a great rule. Um, do you still have to go to sit down if they play James's sit down?
24:40 Speaker 06 Yeah, I think that's still in there.
24:42 Speaker 01 Is the multi-ball still happening?
24:45 Speaker 06 Yes, pinball, if, if pinball wizard plays, is it?
24:48 Speaker 03 I mean.
24:49 Speaker 01 Have they got the rid of the, have they got rid of the rule where if you touch the ball in your own penalty area with your foot, it's a penalty?
24:56 Speaker 06 Oh, that was in, in the D, wasn't it?
24:58 Speaker 01 In the D.
24:59 Speaker 06 That was really bad. That was abandoned even within that game.
25:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, I must admit, it's my favourite day of the year, I think, but as a football lover and football purist, I sort of wish we were using the normal laws of the game.
25:13 Speaker 01 It's not one for the purists.
25:14 Speaker 06 It's hard to put to bed, if you are a bit competitive about football, it is hard. I think finding that balance.
25:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, and he said this.
25:23 Speaker 06 And especially with the captain's armband on, I think I'm going to struggle to hold my tongue.
25:30 Speaker 03 Well, what do, what do you bring into the team, Matthew? What's your playing style if you were to describe yourself as a football player?
25:37 Speaker 06 I, I always say this to my son and I would apply it to myself. What you can control on the day is how hard you work.
25:48 Speaker 06 That's the one bit you can control. So I do consider myself someone who works as hard as they can. I don't stop running until I can't run.
25:59 Speaker 01 And what you can't control is if they bring on a 20 foot high inflatable duck.
26:04 Speaker 00 But then even if you're competitive, you've just got to sit there and go, I love it.
26:12 Speaker 01 They should do this in the Nations League.
26:14 Speaker 00 They should do this all in the bloody World Cup.
26:17 Speaker 01 Well, obviously last, they released a video on YouTube last year, which does lay bare Chesham United's need for a new P A system, which hopefully this year we can raise enough money for. But it does also show my goal in all its glory. So check it out on, on YouTube. Cause you know, there were probably a thousand videos of it just doing the viral scene.
26:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:44 Speaker 00 No, it's your greatest moment, John.
26:47 Speaker 01 It's the best thing I will ever do.
26:48 Speaker 00 Yes.
26:49 Speaker 06 That's the thing. I think even in the context of a comedy football game where there's a huge rubber duck behind you, there is still, there is still the 10 year old boy in you going, if I get to score in front of a crowd, that's the best moment of my whole life.
27:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, I did some filming at Sellers Park once and they just let me on the pitch and I, someone got hold of a ball and I scored a goal. There was no one in the ground. There's me, the cameraman and the sound guy. And I scored a goal in a Premier League pitch and a Premier League stadium. And it was amazing.
27:23 Speaker 01 Matthew, we've talked about how great I am at football. One area of the game I like to leave to others is goal kicks because I can't get the ball off the ground. So do you mind if you just elect someone who's in charge of goal kicks, please?
27:36 Speaker 06 Yeah, we can, we can get someone. I will say this, Tom Rosenthal, who used to play for Eggs, is now our manager. And I think he's got some quite strong tactical ideas.
27:48 Speaker 01 Well, he did send everyone a Google sort of survey to fill out about their strengths and weaknesses. And I think I was the only person who did it.
27:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, I will do it.
28:00 Speaker 06 I did it too.
28:01 Speaker 00 I do need to reiterate, Tom, that I can only be an impact sub because I am doing that.
28:07 Speaker 01 He's Michael Owen for Man United.
28:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, for the next.
28:09 Speaker 06 Isn't it, but isn't it good prep for the run, Ellis?
28:12 Speaker 00 No, I'll just be stiff and sore.
28:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:14 Speaker 00 I wasn't.
28:14 Speaker 01 Imagine if you twist your ankle.
28:16 Speaker 00 I won't twist my ankle, I'm too hard.
28:18 Speaker 01 Okay.
28:19 Speaker 00 But what's crazy is after the Tass Master game last year before, I was sore for days. Whereas if I play five aside, I'm fine the next day.
28:26 Speaker 01 Charlie Baker absolutely skinned me because my, my thighs just went.
28:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:31 Speaker 01 Uh, anyway, Matthew, thank you so much for joining us. We will bring reports from, uh, the match. We'll maybe do some little, uh, voice notes, Ellis.
28:39 Speaker 00 Yes.
28:39 Speaker 01 Couple of videos, maybe.
28:40 Speaker 00 Good idea.
28:41 Speaker 01 Um, and we wish you all the best, Matthew. Is there anything you want to plug, Matthew?
28:45 Speaker 06 Oh, um, it's not out for ages, but please go to the cinema to see Ghosts.
28:51 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
28:51 Speaker 06 But if you wait till it's on telly, it's a problem for, for me.
28:58 Speaker 01 So they're showing the series at the cinema?
29:00 Speaker 06 No, the, we've made a film.
29:02 Speaker 01 Oh, yes, of course.
29:03 Speaker 06 We've just wrapped a film.
29:05 Speaker 01 Wowee, an entirely wrapped film.
29:07 Speaker 06 And it's coming out in October.
29:08 Speaker 00 Oh, that'll be good.
29:09 Speaker 01 Very good.
29:10 Speaker 00 Thank you. Well, I'll see, we'll see you tomorrow.
29:12 Speaker 01 See you tomorrow.
29:13 Speaker 06 Tomorrow, see you on the pitch.
29:14 Speaker 01 Bye bye.
29:15 Speaker 06 See you.
29:26 Speaker 02 Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisy Adams. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.
29:59 Speaker 00 Anyway, the game is happening tomorrow. We'll be reporting on it next week, but now I think it's time if we find out if John has won again.
30:31 Speaker 01 Does he win or does he lose? It's up to Ellis and Dave to choose, because some of these are borderline.
30:38 Speaker 03 Okay.
30:39 Speaker 01 Let me commence. Ellis, have you ever heard the word injustice?
30:43 Speaker 03 Yes, in relation to you, so many times.
30:45 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the word disgrace?
30:47 Speaker 03 So many times.
30:48 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the word national scandal?
30:50 Speaker 03 Yes.
30:50 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the phrase "everyone's sacked"?
30:53 Speaker 03 Yes.
30:53 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the phrase "root and branch review of significant productions in all its practices"?
30:59 Speaker 03 Are you in the Labour Party?
31:01 Speaker 01 Bloody could be this, right?
31:06 Speaker 01 Um, Jenny?
31:08 Speaker 03 Oh, sorry Jenny.
31:09 Speaker 01 Your job is safe. Okay, yeah, good, good. Jenny's job is safe. Jenny, last week, we played a made-up game where Michael, whose job is on the line, Dave, whose job is on the line, and Ellis, who is an innocent party, but unfortunately, your job is still on the line.
31:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, fair enough.
31:27 Speaker 01 Um, oversaw the naming of streets in the world.
31:31 Speaker 03 Oh, great game.
31:32 Speaker 01 With the hope of finding a winner, a one-off street.
31:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, we played it in the week.
31:37 Speaker 01 It was pretty close, wasn't it?
31:40 Speaker 03 Uh, yeah, yes, oh, yes.
31:42 Speaker 01 How mu- how much did Ellis win by?
31:43 Speaker 03 Uh, one point.
31:44 Speaker 01 One point? That's tight.
31:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's tight, you know what?
31:47 Speaker 01 That means you've gotta have a close eye on the systems that you've put in place, doesn't it, Dave?
31:52 Speaker 03 You know what? Fairly tight on a game, which is a bit of fun, and we all have probably forgotten about.
31:56 Speaker 01 Oh, it's fun now, is it?
31:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, it should be fun.
31:58 Speaker 01 Oh, well, why don't we take off all our clothes and swear? If it's just fun, because that's what I do for fun.
32:03 Speaker 03 Are you going, are you going back to check and double-check made-up games in the West?
32:08 Speaker 01 Sorry, Ellis, it's not me, it's people listening who care about rules, who care about farmers and integrity.
32:15 Speaker 03 They need to chill out.
32:16 Speaker 01 Or do people you employ, Dave, need to do their job? Is that a question it's worth asking for efficiency?
32:24 Speaker 03 Well, we all employ them, so, you know, it's on you as well.
32:26 Speaker 01 Uh, well, good, because I can sack them now. Uh, Jenny, could you load up the website that we use to come up with the facts and figures? Thus the points there for the winner? Okay, so I, I suggested Aardvark Avenue, didn't I, Dave?
32:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, let, let me get the website up as well, just to help Jenny out.
32:46 Speaker 00 Do you know what Jenny looks like now? She looks like her dad's doing something embarrassing at school.
32:56 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah, so I suggested Aardvark Avenue, Dave, looking for a winner.
33:01 Speaker 03 What's the, what's the website again? Sorry, Jenny. Nominative. Nominative, strong, robust.
33:06 Speaker 01 Oh, the website's robust? Or is it, Dave? Or are our systems made of cardboard in heavy rain?
33:16 Speaker 03 Oh, I can't get it plumb enough.
33:20 Speaker 03 Can you send me the link, please, Jenny, on Slack? Great.
33:25 Speaker 03 Here we go, Aardvark Avenue.
33:26 Speaker 01 Aardvark Avenue. Uh, yeah, I received a two, a tour for Aardvark Avenue, giving me, uh, two points. And I believe it was 10 points for a winner, wasn't it, Dave? I believe that was the golden goose.
33:39 Speaker 03 No, one point for a winner.
33:40 Speaker 01 One point for a winner?
33:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:42 Speaker 01 Okay. Can you type in Aardvark Avenue, please?
33:45 Speaker 03 Yes, typed in.
33:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, so how many Aardvark Avenues are there?
33:49 Speaker 03 One.
33:50 Speaker 01 Huh. That's interesting.
33:52 Speaker 03 And what did you get for it?
33:53 Speaker 01 Two.
33:54 Speaker 03 Did you?
33:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, because there's two listings for Aardvark Avenue. Only one address. Oh, the entire.
34:03 Speaker 03 Oh, interesting.
34:04 Speaker 01 Entire courtroom stunned into silence.
34:08 Speaker 00 Yep. This is, Kevin Costner's just put his briefings down.
34:13 Speaker 03 Okay, so we're back to tie break again then?
34:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it's a tie, which I believe was how many high streets are there in the world?
34:20 Speaker 00 If you make me, and you'll have Googled this in the week, if you make me guess, Dave.
34:24 Speaker 03 Why are you putting Alice under this pressure? You know he doesn't want to guess.
34:27 Speaker 01 Google it.
34:28 Speaker 03 No, you've been, you've been informed.
34:31 Speaker 01 It's a tie. We replayed the point.
34:34 Speaker 03 Honestly?
34:35 Speaker 01 No, so the points, the point doesn't count. We replayed the point. It's like a let.
34:40 Speaker 03 Okay.
34:41 Speaker 01 Because there's been a huge error.
34:44 Speaker 03 Okay.
34:47 Speaker 00 This is in.
34:48 Speaker 03 It was such a fun game.
34:49 Speaker 01 It was a great game, Dave.
34:50 Speaker 03 It could have just been left for being such a fun game.
34:53 Speaker 00 John, it's the hand of God, a little bit of the hand of Maradona, a bit of the hand of God. John.
34:59 Speaker 03 You could admit the website's a bit misleading because it did bring up two results.
35:03 Speaker 00 Website's misleading. You have to accept, John.
35:05 Speaker 01 But it's up to us to lead, Dave. Especially in these troubled times. Britain is looking for leadership, for vision.
35:13 Speaker 00 It's in the comedy and entertainment section.
35:16 Speaker 01 Of what?
35:17 Speaker 00 Of everything, of podcast search engines.
35:19 Speaker 03 It's a tie break then?
35:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:21 Speaker 03 It's a tie break, so I will, I will.
35:23 Speaker 00 I'm not guessing, Dave.
35:24 Speaker 03 No, you will, you will.
35:25 Speaker 00 I'll do a tie break.
35:26 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. Look at your little grin on your face.
35:28 Speaker 03 I'll do a tie break, John.
35:29 Speaker 01 How many people have played for Swansea City?
35:32 Speaker 03 That was close, actually. What's the capacity of Swansea City's football ground? John?
35:39 Speaker 01 Doesn't relate to streets, does it?
35:42 Speaker 00 It doesn't need to, it's on a street, isn't it, probably?
35:46 Speaker 01 It's a good job you're not currently an employee of mine.
35:48 Speaker 03 You can write that down on your newspaper. What's the capacity, closest to the pin here? Sorry to make you guess, Ellis.
35:54 Speaker 01 Imagine if I won this.
35:56 Speaker 03 This is just plucked, plucked out of thin air.
35:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay.
36:01 Speaker 03 John, what's the capacity of Swansea City's football ground?
36:03 Speaker 01 Thirty-eight thousand, seven hundred and twenty-four.
36:06 Speaker 03 Thirty-eight thousand, seven hundred and twenty-four.
36:14 Speaker 03 I just gotta get it up. Here we go.
36:18 Speaker 03 Ellis?
36:18 Speaker 00 Twenty-one thousand.
36:20 Speaker 03 The answer is twenty-one thousand and eighty-eight.
36:22 Speaker 01 Okay, that's fair.
36:23 Speaker 03 So that's fair now. So you're right, no, it should have been taken to a tie. But now what we have here is a very fair and very robust tie break.
36:32 Speaker 01 Well, I'm glad.
36:33 Speaker 00 You're a good dad.
36:34 Speaker 03 And welcome back to the guessing world, Ellis. I thought that was fantastic, actually.
36:37 Speaker 00 Good guess, good guess.
36:39 Speaker 03 Good, so all's fair and fair in love and love, love and love.
36:43 Speaker 01 It's a loss on the wins and losses, Dave.
36:45 Speaker 00 Oh, we're doing that, aren't we? Sorry.
36:46 Speaker 01 That's what this is about.
36:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, it is, isn't it? So what, what shall I call this? Pedantic?
36:52 Speaker 01 No, failures.
36:54 Speaker 03 Institutional failures.
36:58 Speaker 01 Good grief.
37:02 Speaker 03 I'm gonna do institutional slash pedantic failures.
37:10 Speaker 01 Hate to follow up a loss with another loss, didn't get the job as the Wordle Quiz Show presenter.
37:14 Speaker 03 I saw that.
37:15 Speaker 00 Who got that instead?
37:17 Speaker 01 I think the, I don't know, I think it's an American woman who might even set the Wordles.
37:23 Speaker 00 Okay.
37:23 Speaker 03 That's fair enough then, isn't it?
37:24 Speaker 01 Is it?
37:25 Speaker 00 Did you go for it?
37:26 Speaker 01 Is it fair to?
37:26 Speaker 00 I don't know. Did you, did you go for it?
37:28 Speaker 01 Who's done more for Brand Wordle? Who was, who was supporting it when everyone said, oh, do people still play that?
37:34 Speaker 00 Did you go for it or did you just expect to be anointed?
37:36 Speaker 01 Expected to be anointed.
37:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, didn't get a Wordle gig.
37:44 Speaker 01 Okay, arrived at my premiere in an hour early and wasn't charged for early check-in.
37:51 Speaker 03 Oh.
37:51 Speaker 01 That's a free nap.
37:54 Speaker 01 That's a nap on Papa Indi- India.
37:58 Speaker 03 Indigo.
37:59 Speaker 01 Indiago, yeah.
38:00 Speaker 03 Hold on, do you know, it's Indigo, isn't it?
38:02 Speaker 01 People do make mistakes, it's Indi-go.
38:05 Speaker 03 Okay.
38:06 Speaker 01 It is Indigo.
38:08 Speaker 03 Early arrival at...
38:12 Speaker 01 Free nap.
38:14 Speaker 01 Free nap on a mattress you can have at home, Dave.
38:19 Speaker 03 You can have all sorts of mattresses at home.
38:21 Speaker 00 Do you then have to sort your hair out after you've had a nap before the gig? I would look terrible if I had a nap, I couldn't...
38:27 Speaker 01 How are you napping as a handstand?
38:31 Speaker 03 No, I'm with Alice, your hair gets tousled, is tousled the right word?
38:34 Speaker 01 Tousled.
38:34 Speaker 03 Tousled.
38:35 Speaker 01 But we're not beautiful women, are we?
38:37 Speaker 03 Well, we've got beautiful hair, all three of us.
38:40 Speaker 01 But it's just the back where it's flat.
38:42 Speaker 03 No, mine's so fine that mine would actually be quite a problem.
38:45 Speaker 00 Oh, it would stick up, it would be all over the place.
38:47 Speaker 01 But I, no, well, it's never been an issue. Um, huh, this is embarrassing actually. Um, Alice, I asked you if you were familiar with some terms earlier.
38:58 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
38:58 Speaker 01 I'm gonna play that game again.
39:00 Speaker 00 Okay.
39:00 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the term Sunday Times Bestseller List?
39:05 Speaker 00 Yes.
39:06 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the term, and you may not have heard this one, Waterstones number one bestseller in all formats?
39:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, I can understand what it is.
39:15 Speaker 01 Oh, okay, great, great.
39:17 Speaker 00 I really hope this is a win. That's such an unpleasant way to frame it.
39:22 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the term bear with me? Because I hadn't heard the term, so I just need to look it up.
39:29 Speaker 00 Okay.
39:30 Speaker 01 Have you ever heard the term?
39:35 Speaker 01 A top selling title for Penguin Random House on Audible, Spotify, Apple and Google last week.
39:40 Speaker 00 I can work it out, yeah.
39:42 Speaker 01 Okay.
39:43 Speaker 03 Why are they being so specific there? What are they leaving out?
39:45 Speaker 01 Because they had, I needed more.
39:47 Speaker 03 Yes.
39:49 Speaker 01 They had to invent certain parameters that perhaps, you know, aren't public knowledge or worthy of an Instagram post.
39:54 Speaker 00 Are you on the Sunday Times bestseller list?
39:56 Speaker 01 Uh, huh. Feels like it. Did you not know that?
39:59 Speaker 00 No.
40:00 Speaker 01 I put it on Instagram.
40:01 Speaker 00 Oh, I didn't see that.
40:02 Speaker 03 I heard him say it on stage in Manchester on Tuesday.
40:04 Speaker 00 That's fantastic. Well done.
40:06 Speaker 01 Number two.
40:07 Speaker 00 That's brilliant.
40:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, and all of the-
40:09 Speaker 00 Who's number one? Hairy bikers? Gary Barlow.
40:14 Speaker 01 Uh, a book about birds.
40:17 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. Well, my son bought 30,000 copies.
40:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, um, by Robert McParland, and I was pleased about that.
40:25 Speaker 03 That's absolute BS.
40:26 Speaker 01 And only briefly considered exterminating all the birds in the UK.
40:31 Speaker 03 I'm not going to put number two on this win. You're a Sunday Times bestseller.
40:34 Speaker 01 Thanks, Dave.
40:35 Speaker 00 Amazing. Well done. I didn't know that.
40:37 Speaker 01 And all the team from the publisher came to the last show in, in London the other night. And at the end, they were in the foyer and they all shouted, congratulations, number two in the Times bestseller. And I said, this doesn't sound good when you put it like that.
40:50 Speaker 00 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. If you're on the list, you're on the list.
40:54 Speaker 03 They shouldn't even really number them. It's a collection.
40:56 Speaker 01 They shouldn't, actually.
40:57 Speaker 00 No, that's not really how charts work, is it, Dave?
40:59 Speaker 01 They should have a separate section for bird hardbacks.
41:04 Speaker 00 He, this guy must be big in the bird scene.
41:07 Speaker 03 So what category was yours in? Because that means you are bestseller in-
41:10 Speaker 01 General hardback.
41:11 Speaker 03 General hardback?
41:12 Speaker 01 Number two, general hardback.
41:14 Speaker 03 Okay.
41:15 Speaker 01 Um, but if you were to include audio downloads, it would have been number one, but they don't do that.
41:20 Speaker 03 That's a shame. It should. Why don't they?
41:22 Speaker 00 If his bird book's outselling John's blubography, it must be, he must be a big deal, this guy.
41:28 Speaker 01 A lot of the birds are recovering drug addicts.
41:33 Speaker 01 So yes, that was obviously a great treat.
41:36 Speaker 00 Oh, fantastic. Well done.
41:38 Speaker 01 However, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. If only.
41:44 Speaker 00 I'll subset you now, I'll.
41:45 Speaker 01 Only Highways England cared about the Sunday Times bestseller list. Let's begin with two closures on the M40 back from Birmingham. Okay, I can, I can live with that. It was disgusting.
41:59 Speaker 00 And it's a fun motorway, the M40.
42:01 Speaker 01 It's a fun motorway.
42:02 Speaker 00 Nice and short.
42:03 Speaker 01 They're repairing bridges. We need bridges to be repaired.
42:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:06 Speaker 01 That's important.
42:09 Speaker 01 I know the real world. I know infrastructure.
42:13 Speaker 00 No, you don't. You've been a stand-up comic since you were 23. I thought that you worked at an out-of-funk bookshop.
42:20 Speaker 01 I know infrastructure.
42:21 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think about infrastructure.
42:24 Speaker 01 My patience was tested when travelling from Manchester to Buckinghamshire. Was it tested by?
42:30 Speaker 00 In the car?
42:31 Speaker 01 Yes, my patience in the car was tested with the closure of the M's 640 and 1.
42:36 Speaker 00 Oh my God, so how do you even navigate that?
42:39 Speaker 01 Well, far be it from me to suggest Highways England are incapable of joined-up thinking.
42:45 Speaker 00 They're a-roading it back from Manchester.
42:46 Speaker 01 I'm not suggesting that, but the M's 640 and 1 are the only ways of travelling from the entirety of the North West to the entirety of the South East, which does, doesn't feel like an obscure route to have to take.
43:03 Speaker 00 No.
43:04 Speaker 01 The two most heavily populators of the entire country, so why not close them all at once?
43:10 Speaker 00 You went, so you had to a-road it back, did you?
43:12 Speaker 01 What I had to do, it was like.
43:15 Speaker 00 That's a roundabout way of doing it. That's the way I'd ride it on my bike.
43:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, basically, I had to switch between each one at every closure. So I had to sort of zigzag across and down, which was a lot when I was, I would say my sort of vibe battery was, was yellow. It was showing yellow.
43:38 Speaker 00 Yeah.
43:39 Speaker 01 So there we go.
43:40 Speaker 00 Motorway straddling.
43:41 Speaker 01 Motorway straddling. It was straddling, Dave.
43:43 Speaker 00 That's why I dislike driving, because when that happens, it's just the worst. And on the train, you're just sitting there and you can have a bucket of crisps.
43:51 Speaker 01 I love it. However, there are some tall posse's, big posse's. Kindness brackets, general and so much chocolate, I should be dead.
44:00 Speaker 01 Lots of very wonderful messages from people, cards, gifts, and some really overwhelmingly nice things said to me during the signings. And I met Amy Liptrot, who hosted the Leeds show, who I'd not met before, and that was a real honour, because I love her book, The Outrun and The Instant. I ran round Batling's Reservoir, Dave.
44:26 Speaker 03 Did you?
44:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's in between Leeds and Liverpool, and I needed a place to go for a run, so I just ran round Blument Reservoir.
44:34 Speaker 03 That was so strange.
44:37 Speaker 01 And it went great.
44:38 Speaker 03 Did you get battered for doing the accent?
44:41 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, a couple of dog workers got the coshers out and hit me with a balm cake.
44:47 Speaker 03 That's, that's a hate crime. Yeah, that's horrible.
44:50 Speaker 01 No, but it were eat good.
44:53 Speaker 01 I did enjoy it. It's very beautiful, isn't it?
44:57 Speaker 03 What were the weather like, John?
44:59 Speaker 01 It's so beautiful, though, Dave.
45:01 Speaker 03 Which bit?
45:02 Speaker 01 All of the north.
45:03 Speaker 03 Between Leeds and Liverpool?
45:04 Speaker 01 Between Leeds and Liverpool.
45:06 Speaker 03 North is nice.
45:07 Speaker 01 North is really nice.
45:09 Speaker 03 The north is nice and should be respected.
45:11 Speaker 01 It should be. I do respect it. I'm from, all my family's from the north, Dave, so I can do that kind of thing.
45:16 Speaker 03 So you're king of the north?
45:17 Speaker 01 I wouldn't say I was king at north, but I'd say courtier to king.
45:22 Speaker 03 Okay.
45:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. But no, that was really brilliant. And I am now in the obsidian league of Duolingo, but I don't think it's gonna last.
45:31 Speaker 03 What does that mean?
45:31 Speaker 01 I'm just gonna get demoted.
45:33 Speaker 03 Okay, well, humbling.
45:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know. And Lily started rolling her eyes at me when I make mistakes.
45:38 Speaker 03 French Lily.
45:39 Speaker 01 French Lily, my wife, who's just gonna be my friend.
45:44 Speaker 01 So there we go.
45:45 Speaker 03 Wow, okay, so, all right, early arrival at Premier Inn equals free nap, that's a win. First Under Times bestseller, win. Kindness, brackets, general slash so much chocolate, John should be dead. I'm gonna count that as a win.
45:59 Speaker 01 That was a win.
45:59 Speaker 03 No, I want you dead. Finish now?
46:01 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:01 Speaker 03 Oh, that's a shame, because I was gonna say, just to mix it up a bit, we could get people at the next gigs to be like, really mean. I was actually in the Manchester crowd. It is, it's so much goodwill in those rooms.
46:12 Speaker 01 Oh man, no one else has fans like we do.
46:15 Speaker 03 I don't think so. It's such a, such a warm area.
46:19 Speaker 01 And that's not to say our fans aren't fans of other things, but when they come together, they're quite an extraordinary bunch of good eggs.
46:25 Speaker 03 So it's three wins, institutional slash pedantic failures is a loss, didn't get the Wordle gig is a loss and motorway straddling is a loss. We're at a draw, John. Three all.
46:36 Speaker 01 Oh, no, run round the.
46:38 Speaker 03 Oh, the reservoir.
46:39 Speaker 01 Run round Baitling's damn reservoir.
46:41 Speaker 03 I got distracted by the terrible accent, sorry.
46:44 Speaker 01 Well, just sending lots of love to all our friends in the north.
46:47 Speaker 03 Four, three. A positive week in the end. Four. Run around a reservoir.
46:54 Speaker 01 Good week.
46:55 Speaker 03 Run around a rez, I'm gonna put, because I've run out of room in the column.
46:58 Speaker 01 I mean, I have also lost a tie break for last week's made up game.
47:06 Speaker 03 But that's, that's kind of.
47:06 Speaker 01 That's part of the institutional thing, yes.
47:09 Speaker 03 That's part of the pedigree.
47:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's part of the root and branch review.
47:13 Speaker 03 Good, John wins again. Lovely stuff.
47:16 Speaker 01 Oh, shall we have a lovely chat with Adrian?
47:18 Speaker 03 Yes, good idea.
47:19 Speaker 01 Uh, here he is.
47:25 Speaker 00 It interested me listening to your documentary, and you might have covered this in one of the later ones, which I haven't got to, is, you know, it's obviously, whatever people feel, it's very, very sincerely and passionately felt. What happens if England are like triumphant at this World Cup and the next Euros and the World Cup after that? What if the whole story changes? What forces might that unleash when it comes to English if we are actually triumphalist about, and with triumphs on the pitch at least to celebrate? Uh, I don't know. I mean, this is a sort of magical thinking, I think, here, which is that somehow or other, the history of the English football team has followed what you might call the sort of agony and ecstasy of being English, in that it is about expectation
48:10 Speaker 00 being raised, a sense that we own the game, that we gave the game to the world and we should do better. Somehow we don't, and this dance is recurring over sixty years. And there is something very English about that, about English expectation and English frailty. And it's hard to think, well, you know, this is just a game and it might be any minute that we do really well. And then this whole idea that it's a mirror to Englishness and English frailty and English psychology won't happen anymore. Who knows? I can tell you something which is true though, which is, you know, France and Italy and Germany and Spain. Countries that aren't that different to us, certainly in terms of the structure of the football game, have done better than us.
48:50 Speaker 00 They have done better than us over the years. And so you have to ask, is that something to do with different types of psychology? Ellis, just, just, um, just summarize your thoughts on, uh, on, on what we do with our wretched Englishness. It's been very interesting as a non-English person since nineteen ninety. Watching English people getting very, very excited before a tournament. And then the crushing disappointment when they don't win it. And as a Welsh person, and I think this goes for Northern Ireland and Scotland and the Republic as well. We're just happy to be there. It's a very, very different experience. So I was in London when England got to the semi-final of the twenty eighteen World Cup.
49:35 Speaker 00 And it's just all that, the expectations are so different for England to what they are for other countries. Uh, and again, I was a bit like David in that, you know, the old Glenn Hoddle should have had a team built around him in nineteen eighty, in the nineteen eighties. And, um, they've, um, they've been ignoring and mismanaging their most creative players. Matt Lettisia is another one in the nineteen nineties. But I don't think that's true anymore. When you think of players like, you know, Bellingham and Foden, England have got some great players. And I think it's actually only a matter of time before England win a major tournament. But as a Welshman, weren't you happier when you never qualified? Because now you've got a little bit of expectation yourself, you know, you're kind of half expecting to be there. Adrian, are you mad? So you're more miserable now, you're more miserable now when you.
50:20 Speaker 00 You don't qualify. No, no, that's absolutely not true. Like, we, we were terrible at Qatar in twenty twenty two. But it was still a dream come true to get there in the first. And also qualifying by beating Ukraine, Gareth Bale scoring that free kick. I will, there's a picture of me and my friend. I've been watching Wales play with him since nineteen ninety three. And we're both in tears. And he sent me the picture. He said, I haven't heard my dad like that for thirty years. It was, it was, it was an amazing experience getting there. And.
50:50 Speaker 01 I thought David's point about sort of the difference between the, the mercurial underdog. And the, the powerful oppressor was really interesting because it, for a snooker analogy. Like Stephen Hendry is the sort of the German figure of efficiency, robotic dominance. Ronnie O'Sullivan is like the Gaucho Maradona figure. But both of them share one thing, which is a ruthless obsession with winning. Like, and that's what I don't think England have, because winning is a habit and losing is a habit.
51:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:29 Speaker 01 And losing penalty shootouts is a habit. And you have to, at some level, above everything else, whether you're Tiger Woods or Seve Ballesteros or. Tom Watson, whatever type of sports person you are, you have to be obsessed with winning. Like, whether you do it the easy way or the hard way.
51:49 Speaker 00 It's also, it's also really hard to win a World Cup.
51:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
51:53 Speaker 00 People forget, people, you know, Brazil are great and France are great and Spain are great and Argentina are great. It's really difficult to win a World Cup, and I think. David, just go on. Conclude this seminar with some. John's absolutely right about that. And actually, episode five, which you haven't recorded, well, we've recorded bits of it, but I haven't done my narration for it yet. A lot of it is with Pippa Grange. And Pippa Grange, who is played by Jodie Whittaker in the TV version of Dear England. Is the sports psychologist who Gareth Southgate brought in to try and change the psychology of the England team in all sorts of ways. To make them understand the meaning of what they were doing and to help with inclusion, but also to try and. Reverse what had happened with penalties over many, many years because as John is pointing
52:35 Speaker 00 out there, you get into a feedback loop, I think, where Englishness is associated with losing penalty shootouts. You know, we, when we write Three Lions, are quite happy in a way to use losingness as a mark of Englishness, but really, obviously, I still want them to win. So how you win in a penalty shootout? We try and explore that against the England psychology in episode five. The other one, I do, I don't know if you remember this, when Gazza got booked in the semi in 1990, for the rest of the game, he sort of goes missing a bit. Whereas when Michael Ballack got booked in the semi final of a World Cup and realised that he was going to miss the final, he, if anything, he plays out of his skin and basically drags Germany to the final. Roy Keane did the same thing in a Champions League semi final once, didn't he? Okay,
53:17 Speaker 00 listen, we'll have, we'll have to move on. Alison John coming up shortly. Don't miss David Baddiel's history podcast, 60 Years of Hurt. I think there's six of them. It's available now on BBC Sounds.
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54:11 Speaker 05 1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural
54:18 Speaker 00 History Museum. Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up? Wanted, I've fled to fall of two cops. His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime.
54:35 Speaker 02 You're not going to end up going to prison, are you, kidlet? I'm J C Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get
54:42 Speaker 01 Your podcasts.
54:47 Speaker 01 Oh, hi, everyone.
54:49 Speaker 00 Welcome to the ring fenced zone.
54:52 Speaker 01 You're about to be ring fenced, which is a word Dave loves to say.
54:56 Speaker 03 I don't. It's just now it feels like there is a.
54:59 Speaker 01 It's the best word to use, but it does feel like we're working in the Cabinet Office.
55:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like you're at the Treasury, Dave. This is ring fenced content.
55:06 Speaker 01 In real terms.
55:08 Speaker 03 In real terms.
55:10 Speaker 01 Basically, we can't talk about Patreon or other sort of vibes on the BBC Sounds episode.
55:17 Speaker 00 Because of the unique way it's funded.
55:18 Speaker 01 Because the unique way it's funded. So this is sort of, I guess, bonus content for Patreons or people who just listen on other podcast platforms.
55:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. I mean, it's more for, yeah, it's for the, it's for all.
55:35 Speaker 00 But what does this mean in real terms?
55:36 Speaker 03 This isn't bonus content. This isn't bonus content for Patreon.
55:39 Speaker 01 No, no, no. But this is available only to people who listen on the Patreon feed or non BBC Sounds areas.
55:46 Speaker 03 Our S feeds.
55:47 Speaker 01 And I just, can I just be clear on one thing? The reason the BBC Sounds episode goes out later.
55:54 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
55:55 Speaker 01 Is because it has to be reviewed by the BBC.
55:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, you need to say that on the BBC Sounds version.
56:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:03 Speaker 00 The people listening to this don't care, do they?
56:04 Speaker 01 Well, they can pass it on.
56:07 Speaker 00 But what does that mean in real terms, Dave?
56:10 Speaker 01 It means that it's not an attempt to try and squeeze money out of people by making them wait two and a half hours for a podcast.
56:17 Speaker 03 It's not. It's just.
56:18 Speaker 01 Because they're two separate versions. They have to be edited and go through various.
56:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:24 Speaker 00 And the BBC have got tight rules and constrictions. Like, they wouldn't allow us to say the word fanny.
56:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, they probably wouldn't.
56:33 Speaker 03 Depends what context. I'm not sure. I'm not sure on that. I'll get back to you.
56:36 Speaker 01 If you're calling Dave a big fanny.
56:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's all right.
56:39 Speaker 01 That would be okay.
56:40 Speaker 03 Wouldn't it?
56:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:42 Speaker 00 Buckle up, Dave.
56:43 Speaker 03 Blink in the eye. Yes, carry on.
56:47 Speaker 01 So, there is some bonus content available off BBC Sounds. What have you got your head in your hands, Dave?
56:57 Speaker 03 This should be so easy.
56:59 Speaker 00 Why didn't you say it? Now we can just riff around it. I know.
57:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're the riffers, Dave.
57:02 Speaker 00 Basically, we recorded, the three of us recorded a 40 minute sort of bonus section where we discussed John's book Thirst, which is available on the audiobook of Thirst.
57:13 Speaker 01 Correct.
57:13 Speaker 00 And I know lots of people have listened to it already.
57:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:16 Speaker 00 So it's a 40 minute interview where I sort of, Dave and I quizzed John about the book and asked questions because the both of us had read it. There is a 20 minute highlights package available on the Patreon feed.
57:27 Speaker 01 It was released this morning on Patreon, so you get. Just on Patreon.
57:30 Speaker 03 Just on Patreon.
57:31 Speaker 00 This morning, the 15th of May.
57:33 Speaker 01 So this is for Patreon people.
57:36 Speaker 00 But we're advertising it on the RSS feed.
57:39 Speaker 01 Okay, oh, right, okay.
57:41 Speaker 00 Your vi battery's low.
57:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, my vi battery's low.
57:44 Speaker 00 I can tell. You're, you're moving it from amber into red, I think.
57:47 Speaker 01 I've driven a thousand miles in a week.
57:49 Speaker 00 Oh, bug that tool.
57:51 Speaker 01 Me.
57:53 Speaker 01 I had to put them all together to try and beat the bird bloke and it didn't work. I was 300 copies short.
57:59 Speaker 00 Is that what it was?
58:00 Speaker 03 Oh, I'd have bought 300 copies.
58:01 Speaker 00 If I'd have bought bloody 300 copies, if only you'd told me.
58:05 Speaker 01 It's absolutely fine because gratitude is an attitude.
58:08 Speaker 00 Yes. I would, Izzy would be gutted if I'd bought 300 copies of your book.
58:15 Speaker 01 But Steph would have been very made up if you'd bought 300 copies of the bird book.
58:19 Speaker 00 Yes, yes, you would have liked that.
58:20 Speaker 01 And it is a beautiful book and also little birds.
58:24 Speaker 03 So, brand new bonus content has landed this morning.
58:27 Speaker 01 Yes.
58:27 Speaker 03 If you are on Patreon and if not, obviously sign up to Patreon. Patreon.com slash Alison John.
58:32 Speaker 01 That felt very corporate, Dave.
58:35 Speaker 00 It's just trying to get, I'm ring fencing messages left, right and centre here, lads.
58:39 Speaker 01 Very much like we're delaying the BBC Sounds episode release to frustrate people into subscribing.
58:44 Speaker 00 Hold on, where's the middle ground? I'm too corporate. You two are making zero sense. There's gotta be a middle ground. There's gotta be.
58:50 Speaker 01 Third way. I tried that with Ed Miliband, it didn't work.
58:56 Speaker 00 If you want, if you want extra stuff, sign up to Patreon. There we go.
58:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. And also, um, this is a, a request you do not have to fulfill. But if you have enjoyed reading or listening to Thirst, it would be hugely helpful if you were to review it at your point of purchase or point of download. Because just to use a phrase of yours, Dave, we need this to have a long tail.
59:21 Speaker 00 I've never said that.
59:21 Speaker 01 Like a wagtail.
59:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
59:23 Speaker 01 Or a bird, another bird.
59:24 Speaker 00 It's pursued, isn't it?
59:26 Speaker 01 Well, it just helps algorithms suggest the book to other people who, whom it may be helpful to.
59:32 Speaker 00 And if you've enjoyed My Body, feel free to review online. I've got nothing to quote.
59:37 Speaker 01 There is a thread about how, why Ellis is so nice somewhere.
59:40 Speaker 00 Is there?
59:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, someone just said, isn't Ellis nice? And then everyone just posts loads of nice things about him. You should read that.
59:47 Speaker 00 Give me a little pep.
59:48 Speaker 01 So yes, any reviews, well broadly positive reviews really, I mean, if you hated it, tell me. But don't tell the world.
59:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
59:57 Speaker 01 Or tell Dave.
59:59 Speaker 00 Don't tell me.
59:59 Speaker 01 Tell Dave and then Dave can mime it to me.
1:00:02 Speaker 00 Tell me and I might include it in an intro.
1:00:08 Speaker 01 Yeah. So there we go. End of ring fencing. And we're going to have a jingle for the ring fence section in future.
1:00:14 Speaker 00 We might have a little jingle just to make it even more confusing. We need, we need, there must be, we, we must have listeners at the treasury. So if you could just email us a load.
1:00:23 Speaker 01 We do have listeners at the treasury.
1:00:25 Speaker 00 We've got listeners at number 10.
1:00:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:27 Speaker 00 But if we, if you could email us a load of like treasury jargon that we can use in the ring fencing jingle that'll make me laugh.
1:00:36 Speaker 01 Great. That's, that's, that's that then, isn't it?
1:00:43 Speaker 01 Okay. Hear ye, hear ye in the town square of content, Dave.
1:00:52 Speaker 00 I have got a little present. I've got a little present for me and you, John.
1:00:55 Speaker 01 Have you?
1:00:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:00:56 Speaker 01 Thanks.
1:00:58 Speaker 03 It's dead quick, because I think we've covered the marathon enough.
1:01:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, big time.
1:01:02 Speaker 03 You probably actually know about this, because it probably pinged on the old company card last week.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 I've stopped checking out the pings.
1:01:09 Speaker 03 Oh, good. I'm glad. Turn off notifications.
1:01:12 Speaker 00 I still get them. I find it really funny watching you spend my money doing. I get notifications on my watch and on my phone.
1:01:20 Speaker 01 Do you?
1:01:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:01:20 Speaker 01 I couldn't live with notifications on a watch.
1:01:23 Speaker 03 You would have seen, a couple of weeks ago, on the company card, a couple of pings for the Guinness World Record. Because, John, me and you participated in the record-breaking London Marathon.
1:01:36 Speaker 00 Our biggest one ever.
1:01:37 Speaker 03 The biggest one ever. So what I did is I got a little certificate for a vote.
1:01:40 Speaker 01 Thank you, Dave.
1:01:41 Speaker 03 Which are actually really cool.
1:01:42 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm trying to get my finisher's shirt. Have you got yours?
1:01:45 Speaker 00 No.
1:01:46 Speaker 01 How do you get them?
1:01:47 Speaker 00 I don't know.
1:01:49 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. John Robins took part in a Guinness World Records title. The largest number of finishers in a marathon is 59,830 out of 60,512 starters in a London Marathon.
1:02:01 Speaker 00 And Ellis was there.
1:02:02 Speaker 01 And Ellis was there, actually.
1:02:03 Speaker 00 Was there?
1:02:06 Speaker 03 Why did they have to mention the starters? It's a bit... You'd feel bad, wouldn't you, if you were one of the people that didn't?
1:02:11 Speaker 01 Well, the record is for the number of finishers, because you could, in theory, say there's 59 million people in this year's London Marathon, and just none of them turned up.
1:02:19 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah, okay.
1:02:21 Speaker 01 Because otherwise you would just say enter, and we'll say enter, but you can't run it. Oh, Dave, should we frame these and put them in here?
1:02:28 Speaker 00 How do you both feel now?
1:02:31 Speaker 01 The same.
1:02:31 Speaker 00 I've not run since.
1:02:33 Speaker 01 Oh, I've run three runs, four runs since.
1:02:36 Speaker 00 I knew you'd been for runs. So physically, you feel all right, then?
1:02:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, physically, I feel great. I need to put some effort into my back, because I think my back is very confused about going out for long runs and then going back and sitting in front of a laptop for three hours, or sitting in a car for four hours, or the M's 1, 6 and 40 being shut.
1:02:55 Speaker 00 Yes, yes.
1:02:56 Speaker 01 So that will happen or won't happen, because it's never happened before. I've never done what I needed to before, so I'm not going to start now, am I?
1:03:05 Speaker 00 I don't think that's true at all.
1:03:06 Speaker 01 I'm not going to do 10 minutes of yoga a day, am I?
1:03:08 Speaker 03 I thought you were doing yoga.
1:03:09 Speaker 01 I do it when it's bad, and then I stop.
1:03:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, and you did yoga with Adrienne when you were pissed.
1:03:17 Speaker 01 And then she.
1:03:19 Speaker 00 Left you.
1:03:19 Speaker 01 And then she started including Benji, the dog, in her videos.
1:03:23 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah, I remember.
1:03:24 Speaker 01 And I started to think about what if Benji's doing guffs in the video and Adrian is doing the yoga with terrible guff scent in the air. And that spoiled, that's genuinely true, spoiled my enjoyment of yoga with Adrian.
1:03:38 Speaker 00 My algorithm now on Instagram is horses with colic being made to fart by vets.
1:03:43 Speaker 01 Why?
1:03:45 Speaker 00 I don't know. But then, once you watch one, you can't stop yourself.
1:03:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, I can, I think I could stop myself.
1:03:54 Speaker 00 And it's, I like, I favorited one.
1:03:57 Speaker 03 Are they good? Are they good farts?
1:03:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah.
1:03:59 Speaker 01 Good God.
1:04:00 Speaker 03 No, but you know, just in general, horses are big and loud. I just wonder, I do now wonder what.
1:04:04 Speaker 00 They're big animals, Dave.
1:04:06 Speaker 01 Do you know, Instagram started that instance thing.
1:04:09 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:04:10 Speaker 01 What are they doing? The thing, the actual app itself is so buggy.
1:04:15 Speaker 03 Hmm.
1:04:15 Speaker 01 I've just, half the stories are just blacked out now.
1:04:18 Speaker 03 Have they?
1:04:18 Speaker 01 And I can only share reels for 15 seconds. And I contacted them and they said, oh, yeah, we know about this.
1:04:24 Speaker 00 I can screen record the horses.
1:04:25 Speaker 01 Were you doing anything about it?
1:04:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:04:27 Speaker 01 No, I just, just, what, what kind of a company runs like that?
1:04:32 Speaker 03 It's a pretty big one.
1:04:33 Speaker 01 We know it's a real mess.
1:04:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:04:35 Speaker 01 But you can now accidentally send someone a photo of you on the toilet to everyone you know.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 So that, that evens it out. It's not actually usable for a lot of things.
1:04:47 Speaker 00 Oh, good. My toilet idea, they've done it.
1:04:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, I've not done, I've not done an instant. I'm not planning on doing any.
1:04:54 Speaker 01 Well, you, maybe you have and you don't know about it, Dave.
1:04:57 Speaker 03 Oh, do you know what I did? I was lying in bed the other day and I found myself, it's suddenly the camera was on.
1:05:02 Speaker 01 What? What's?
1:05:04 Speaker 00 No, this happened to me as well, yeah.
1:05:06 Speaker 03 I ended up in the instance section or whatever.
1:05:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:05:08 Speaker 03 And I'm there, but you know, like when.
1:05:10 Speaker 01 Chapping handing yourself.
1:05:12 Speaker 03 No, John. But you know, suddenly the camera's on you and you weren't really aware of what you look like. And then suddenly there's a camera, my double chin's down like that, I'm topless and I've got, I'm just, my hair's all over the place because I've just woken up. I was like, thank God, that didn't go out to all my instance friends.
1:05:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:05:28 Speaker 03 It's tricky game, isn't it?
1:05:29 Speaker 01 Damn, dead, dead tricky.
1:05:30 Speaker 03 Damn, dead, dead tricky. Anyway, there we go.
1:05:33 Speaker 01 We'll frame these and put them on the wall, please.
1:05:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, we're record holders. It's great.
1:05:36 Speaker 01 World record marathon finisher, John Robins.
1:05:40 Speaker 00 I never.
1:05:42 Speaker 01 Fastest time in the world.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 And handsome.
1:05:48 Speaker 03 Oh, very handsome, yeah. Yeah, very handsome.
1:05:51 Speaker 00 Handsome, handsome, very, very handsome. He's very handsome.
1:05:55 Speaker 03 We should get through, we should get through a bit of correspondence, shouldn't we?
1:05:58 Speaker 01 Dave, I don't get through this.
1:06:00 Speaker 03 No, no, no.
1:06:00 Speaker 01 I love it.
1:06:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:06:02 Speaker 00 Well.
1:06:02 Speaker 01 I live it.
1:06:03 Speaker 00 In reference to the marathon, hello, my chaff support group, I have found myself at a crossroads. I started listening to Ian J circa three years ago. I, like John, was a, was near a runner, but God knows I was a trier. I ran my first marathon two years ago in Edinburgh. It was essing it down with rain, blowing a gale, and I cried at least 60% of the time. That day, I vowed to go one more. 2026 was the year where one terribly prepared athlete perished. Muscle of 2023, size 12 feet, sweaty crying. Another incredibly well-toned, well-adjusted, well-funded raised athlete would rise again in London. Size 12 feet, sweaty, smiling, hopefully.
1:06:40 Speaker 01 Metaphorically perished.
1:06:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:06:41 Speaker 01 Right.
1:06:42 Speaker 00 I gave myself a challenge to complete the race a happier man than a faster man.
1:06:46 Speaker 03 Oh.
1:06:46 Speaker 00 The training was grueling and there were a lot of conversations with myself. I'm generally a happy man surrounded by good friends and a good life. I live and work in London with a lifestyle that is incredibly sociable, which unfortunately means every planned easy run is never a million miles away from too much Guinness and sick on my shoes.
1:07:01 Speaker 03 Oh.
1:07:02 Speaker 00 There were points during training when I genuinely thought I'd become a running person. I started using phrases like time on feet and eating bananas out of choice.
1:07:09 Speaker 03 Hmm.
1:07:10 Speaker 00 I sweat all of it. I found a weird amount of comfort listening to John and producer Dave talking honestly about marathon training. Hearing John and Dave share some proper honesty on injuries, self-doubt, motivation, and the idiocy of running for so long genuinely helped me a lot. It made the whole thing feel human and that spurred me on so much. And somehow against all odds, London was brilliant. I crossed the line quicker than Edinburgh by 55 minutes.
1:07:33 Speaker 01 Wowee.
1:07:34 Speaker 00 And I smiled the whole way. Which brings me back to the crossroads, because on one hand, I am deeply grateful to the podcast genuinely became part of the rhythm of training. But on the other hand, I now find myself potentially radicalised into becoming a newfound Ellis hater.
1:07:53 Speaker 01 Now Ellis isn't a guy that inspires hate.
1:07:56 Speaker 00 No.
1:07:57 Speaker 01 He's one of broadcasting's most beloved brothers.
1:08:01 Speaker 00 Yeah. Because after approximately 0.1 second of contact at roughly the 30 kilometre mark of a marathon.
1:08:08 Speaker 01 It was too far in.
1:08:09 Speaker 00 A distance at which I would argue perspiration is not only acceptable but actively encouraged. Ellis described my high five as disgustingly sweaty in the cinematic universe marathon special. He splashed about 25 people.
1:08:22 Speaker 01 But Ellis, you've always hated exertion in sport. You've never liked watching people give 110%.
1:08:30 Speaker 00 No, no, of course not. Yeah.
1:08:32 Speaker 01 That's why the Swans's nickname is the Sandbaggers.
1:08:36 Speaker 00 Ellis described my high five as disgustingly sweaty in the cinematic universe marathon special before requesting a hand sanitiser with frankly baffling urgency.
1:08:44 Speaker 01 We should point out sweat isn't like, isn't, you're not going to catch anything off sweat.
1:08:49 Speaker 00 And it's fresh sweat, that.
1:08:50 Speaker 01 But don't quote me on that.
1:08:52 Speaker 00 No.
1:08:52 Speaker 03 It's fresh sweat. I think that's all right. I don't mind fresh sweat.
1:08:54 Speaker 01 I mean, it's not necessarily pleasant, but I don't think hand sanitiser is going to make much difference. You're still going to have their salts on your hand.
1:09:00 Speaker 00 You weren't there, man. This, I should add, came from a man who had himself just undergone an emergency de-kagooling procedure due to the heat and emotion of the day. So whilst I remain enormously thankful for the inspiration, candour and companionship the podcast has provided me over the last few years, I do now also carry a small but growing anti-Ellis agenda.
1:09:19 Speaker 03 Ooh.
1:09:20 Speaker 00 Anyway, thank you for the laughs and Ellis, you can make it up to me in Kennington. Love you all. Yours, Angus. Sorry Angus, I just didn't expect such a splash.
1:09:29 Speaker 01 Angus, Ellis is an armchair sportsman in many ways. But isn't it funny how sweat can be a positive or a negative? So like if you said, I went on a date with this guy and he was very sweaty, that might not be a positive. But if you said, I went on a date with a guy and things got hot and sweaty.
1:09:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, interesting.
1:09:49 Speaker 01 That would be a positive.
1:09:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Unless you both had diarrhoea.
1:09:53 Speaker 01 Lovely. Nice.
1:09:54 Speaker 03 Nice.
1:09:56 Speaker 00 In a hot country.
1:09:58 Speaker 01 Well, folks, that's all from us. There will be more correspondence on The Bureau de Change of the Mind, a BBC Sounds exclusive, and maybe a few in next week's episode as well. But thank you for giving us your time, and we'll be with you very soon.
1:10:12 Speaker 00 Goodbye.
1:10:22 Speaker 06 Help, I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh-out-loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help, I Sexed My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.
1:10:54 Speaker 01 Thanks for listening to the show, and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Ellis and John for more content.
1:11:00 Speaker 06 And you can watch highlights of every episode over on our YouTube page, at Ellis and John.
1:11:05 Speaker 01 Plus, you can find all things E J J R, including links to our Patreon, our merch, and much more by heading to ellisonjohn.com. See you next time.
Previous #539 - An Odd King, The Lash Lament and Not Everything’s Istanbul Next #541 - Hi Jacob, Big Brynn the Hill and 14 Connections by Tenby Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated