911

A conversation with a 911 operator about what happens on the other end of the line – and the day she heard her daughter's voice on the phone. This episode was originally released in 2024. We're going on tour - and it's a different kind of show than any we've done before. Upcoming dates in Durham, NC, and Portland, ME, are on sale now. Find ticket links and updates at ⁠thisiscriminal.com/live⁠. Say hello on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Sign up for our occasional newsletter. Follow the show and review us on Apple Podcasts. Sign up for Criminal Plus to get behind-the-scenes bonus episodes of Criminal, ad-free listening of all of our shows, invitations to virtual events, special merch deals, and more. We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop. Episode transcripts are posted on our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  I'm Ina Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus. We talk all about attending a fashion show in Paris together, throwing dinner parties, and making her Broadway debut in other desert cities. New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  How far would you go to have a healthy baby?

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Embryo editing is very much illegal in the United States. It is illegal in most countries. But there is growing interest as the technology has gotten better.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  This week on Explain It To Me, the ethics of embryo maxing. Listen to new episodes Sundays wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:10Phoebe Judge?

  Hi, it's Phoebe. This episode is the last of our Best of Criminal August. We've been making these stories for 12 years now, and there are certain episodes that feel very special. This is one of those. The reason we're still able to make episodes like these after 12 years is because of the support we get from all of you listening. When you bought the t-shirts we made by hand, wrote to us, told your friends about us, we grew enough that we could make Criminal full-time. Then we made This Is Love, then Criminal Plus, and now our brand-new episodes on video. We just put a new one out on YouTube earlier this week. It's a story about a hacker who released therapist notes for tens of thousands of patients.

• 1:54Phoebe Judge?

  To keep making these shows and keep trying new things, we're hoping to reach a goal of 1,000 new Criminal Plus members on Patreon by the end of September. We spend so many hours on our episodes. Sometimes it takes us years to get the right interviews, and your support really helps. If you join Criminal Plus, what you'll get is ad-free listening to every show we make, bonus episodes where I talk with Lauren Spoor about pretty much everything, and a lot of behind-the-scenes. You can learn more at patreon.com/criminal. Thanks very much for listening. Here's the episode.

• 2:34Speaker 04

  You'll be amazed what a 911 operator go through.

• 2:42Speaker 04

  I did have calls where someone is breaking into the house, and they're saying, "Help me, please." And then the closet, quiet and whispering, and you can hear the noise in the background. But you're trying to keep this person calm and let them know we're on our way. I'm hitting mute to tell my dispatcher what all I hear, you know, while taking the call.

• 3:13Phoebe Judge?

  Terry Clark has been answering 911 calls in New Orleans for 25 years.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  Believe it or not, actually, when you did the application, the name of it at the time was Police Complaint Operator. So I really thought I was at a job that was going to take complaints. But on my first day, when I arrived, I realized it was 911. And I was like, wow, I got a real serious job.

• 3:44Phoebe Judge?

  So if I were to call 911 right now, and you were to answer, what would you say first?

• 3:52Speaker 04

  And I do this every day. New Orleans 911 was the location of your emergency.

• 4:00Phoebe Judge?

  So I give you my address, and then what?

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Can you verify your address for me?

• 4:06Phoebe Judge?

  My address is, I'll just make something up, 123 Stone Street.

• 4:12Speaker 04

  123 Stone, okay. What's your name?

• 4:15Phoebe Judge?

  Phoebe.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  Okay, Phoebe, can I have a callback number in case we disconnect?

• 4:21Phoebe Judge?

  210-123456.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  So I'm looking at my screen to verify that's the same address. If it is, now tell me, what's your emergency?

• 4:35Phoebe Judge?

  So I very thankfully haven't had to call 911 that many times in my life. But I do think that all I would keep asking you is, is someone on the way? And so when some-

• 4:48Speaker 04

  Yes, Phoebe, someone is on the way. But yes, you're still going to say, but are they on the way? You're asking too many questions. That's what I get in my ear all day. Yes, I know it seemed like a lot of questions, but they're on their way. We just need to get through this. And I need you to make sure you have your door unlocked, put away any pets, have someone to flag down EMS, you know, well, the responder when they come there. But I also need you to answer these questions for me. We're getting the information because we need it. We're not just asking questions to be talking to you. And then at the end, I'm going to tell you, if anything gets worse, call us back.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  And I always like to tell my callers, thank you for calling.

• 5:36Phoebe Judge?

  Today, a conversation with a 911 operator about what happens on the other end of the line and about what happens when you realize you recognize the voice on the phone. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.

• 6:04Phoebe Judge?

  In medieval times, if you had been robbed, or attacked, or witnessed a crime, you would raise something called "the hue and cry", which was basically a shout for help. Anyone nearby who heard it was expected to stop whatever they were doing to help you and try to catch the suspect. Anyone who didn't join would be punished. Later, different alert systems were developed. Watchmen patrolling the streets in the late 1700s carried wooden rattles to use if they spotted a fire. Anyone who heard it, both citizens and volunteer firefighters, would grab any equipment they had and run in the direction of the noise.

• 6:48Phoebe Judge?

  In 1828, Philadelphia developed a system using a special bell in the State House steeple. A watchman would ring the bell two times if a fire was south of the State House, three if the fire was to the east, and so on. But finding the exact location of the emergency with these kinds of systems wasn't easy. In the mid-1800s, the recent invention of the telegraph inspired a new system in Boston. Boxes were installed around the city that were wired to a central office. If someone needed help, they could turn a crank on one of the boxes, which would send a signal to the central office

• 7:30Phoebe Judge?

  and indicate exactly where the alarm was being wrong. You can still see some of these boxes on the streets of Boston today, and they still work. This alarm box system spread around the country. And then, in the late 1800s, people began installing telephones in their homes. But we didn't get a universal number for emergencies in the United States until 1968. The number 911 was chosen because it was easy to remember and short, which was especially important when most phones were rotary phones and it took longer to dial each number. It was also unique.

• 8:14Phoebe Judge?

  There wasn't already a 911 area code, and they hoped people might remember it. At the time, one member of the FCC said that 911 was going to be better known than 007. But it didn't take off right away. Almost 20 years later, in 1987, only 50% of the country was using 911. Today, about 240 million calls are made to 911 a year, most of them from cell phones. But a lot of people call 911 when they don't actually need to. And sometimes, someone calling 911 can lead to a response that turns something

• 8:58Phoebe Judge?

  that's not an emergency into one. The 911 system has been criticized for having a "police-first" emergency response model and dispatching police to situations that don't involve a crime or violence. Terry Clark says she gets all kinds of calls. She says sometimes they're from people who are just worried and don't know what to do.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  I hear 911 calls with teenager moms all the time, where I can relate, and I know it's against protocol, but you know, you might say, I have a child your age. I understand.

• 9:36Phoebe Judge?

  Terry's daughter, Tania, is 17.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  That's one of the calls where you say, I understand what you're going through, but try this. But anyway, or maybe they might call for EMS, and they're calling back because they've been waiting so long. You might give them an idea. Ma'am, do you have a family member or a neighbor that might can take you to the hospital since EMS is not available at this time? You know, oh, baby, I never thought about that. Let me go ask my neighbor. So, hey, one last call we have to go to, and they go into the emergency room.

• 10:16Phoebe Judge?

  How do you keep yourself calm when you're talking to someone who's-

• 10:22Phoebe Judge?

  Who's in a really, who's actually in a very big crisis?

• 10:28Speaker 04

  I have to set the tone for them. And if they hysterical and I'm hysterical, we're not gonna get anything, you know? We're not gonna get them the help they need or the address because we both screaming. So you have to set the tone and just remember, I need you to answer these questions so the responders can know how to respond to the situation that they're in route to. Whether it's an electrical pole or stove on fire, to a baby choking, or if they had a stroke, have they had one before? You know, so they can know what all the equipment they need to bring inside with them.

• 11:13Phoebe Judge?

  How do you recover after a day of answering calls where you're listening to a scared child or a horrified person hearing someone trying to break into their house?

• 11:26Speaker 04

  To be honest, you don't.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  You don't. We was trained not to bring work home with you. So when I get in my car, I tend to take my ID off of my neck. That's like me relieving work, you know, leaving work where is that? When I go home, the first thing I want to do is take my shirt off. I'm taking work off of me. But you, you get immune to it.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  It's, you know, we can only go to the item or the incident at the end to see if the person made it to the hospital. What's the fire put out? How many family members are without their home? Are not able to go back to their house that day after that house fire?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  With the police, you know, the outcome was someone arrested. Did they make it to the hospital? Their house broken into? We don't know if they're gonna sleep at home that night.

• 12:45Phoebe Judge?

  You, you never know what happens to someone after you get off the call with them? Can you find out?

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Not for an operator, not really. Unless you go and research that call. But you take so many, you don't have time for that. You look, when you get there at 7:00, you're probably waiting on 7:00 PM that night because Orleans Parish have a high call volume. So you really never go back to look and see what happened with this call. Not that you don't care, but when you release that call, you take a deep breath

• 13:34Speaker 04

  and you're ready for the next call.

• 13:38Phoebe Judge?

  In 2012, a Northern Illinois University study looked at PTSD in 911 dispatchers. One clinical psychologist said, dispatchers are the forgotten first responders. They carry a high level of responsibility for coordinating the response to the incident, but they are very remote from it. High levels of responsibility and low levels of the ability to actually influence the outcome mean extremely high stress.

• 14:10Phoebe Judge?

  Do you think that this work has changed the person that you are when you leave work? The way you see the world, the way you look at other people?

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  For my daughter.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Because like so, and even in the world, if you've been looking at it, they've been having a lot of shootings at football game, high school games. So yes, you want to enjoy your senior life and have fun, but yet I'm scared. She don't understand at work, I hear the danger all the time. She young, she just want to go, go, go. And, you know, you have to be, I try to tell her, you have to be mindful of who your friends is, mindful of your surroundings.

• 15:05Phoebe Judge?

  We asked Terri's daughter, Tania, what she thought about her mother's work.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  I remember I used to like, if I was at going to summer camp or stuff, I used to wear the job. So I'm like, okay, so my mama be like 911, was she emergency? So I used to be happy to tell people that. And like, I felt like from like the age of like six to eight, I wanted to be a 911 operator. But then I was like, I don't know.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Tania, and she can tell you, sometimes if I had had a rough day or whatever, she might come home and tell me, don't take it out on me because she say I be mean or I be snappy. But when I come home, like I tell her, give me at least 15 minutes. Don't talk to me, don't tell me anything, let me calm down. She don't realize it's a rush, you know, like

• 16:02Speaker 04

  I need to calm down, I just need peace and quiet. After 12 hours of listening to people, problems, listening to call takers, dispatchers or other people calling for things, like give me 15 minutes. Sometimes even when I come home, I have to sit in my car for 15 minutes just to be at peace with nothing, playing no radio, not being on the phone, just looking, hearing the birds chirping or whatever.

• 16:38Phoebe Judge?

  On October 17th, 2022, Terri answered a 911 call that she was never expecting.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  It really wasn't until I took Tania's call that I realized I tend to hold everything inside of me.

• 16:59Phoebe Judge?

  We'll be right back. To listen without ads, join Criminal Plus.

• 17:19Speaker 06

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• 17:51Phoebe Judge?

  Terri, take me through October 17th. How did your shift start? Just take me through how that day started.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  Okay, so my regular shift was from 6:30 to 7:00 PM.

• 18:10Speaker 04

  I'm about to say 1900. So Tania had to work that evening.

• 18:16Phoebe Judge?

  Tania, who was 16 at the time, had just started her first job working at McDonald's. Her shift started at 5:00 PM.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  So I signed up to do a little overtime. I was like, I'm gonna stay here, make a little extra money and that way I'm up. You know, I had it set when she got off at 10, I'll be getting off to pick up. So my shift ended, had just started the overtime shift. And

• 18:51Speaker 04

  I was plugged in and the call came over.

• 18:56Phoebe Judge?

  Terri recognized Tania's cell phone number on the display.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Because 911 have call ID. It don't tell you the name, but it tell you the address and like, well, if it's from your cell phone, it tell you the phone number and give you the closest address that it is. Like the area or the street. It all depends on, you know, what company you have in a tower. So immediately I looked at my cell phone to make sure I didn't miss a call from her. I didn't have no call, right? So in my mind, I'm like, why is she calling my work phone? I didn't told her about this.

• 19:42Phoebe Judge?

  Had she called you at work before?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Yes. So, all right. I might call her from the desk phone. But if you call the number back, it'll come to 911. Instead of her calling like my extension, she probably just hit callback and she'll come through 911 and she might say, ma'am, speak to my mama, ma'am, speak to Terri Claude. So, you know, I'm like, hey, you can, I didn't told her this over and over. Don't call them, but text me and I'll, you know, stuff I'll call you.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  So

• 20:26Speaker 04

  that day, when her number came across, I'm like, 911, was she emergency? And she was like, mama, we being robbed. I'm like, I know, I'm not hearing what I just heard. And so I'm like, what's your address? I know my child was at McDonald's, I know where she was, but I still need to know. Hey, she could have left off, so let's verify. And she was like, mama, I'm at the store, you know, you know, it's me, Tania. So I, once again, what is your address? Because we're, I was trained to treat every caller like their family.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  So when you get your family member, you treat them like their regular caller. No, I'm gonna ask 911, what's the location of your emergency?

• 21:21Speaker 05

  Mama, can you please, you're a police officer right now, the McDonald's being robbed.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  Where at?

• 21:28Speaker 07

  Oh, and my job, mama.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  I still need the address. It's been robbed.

• 21:34Speaker 07

  What's the address? What's the address? What's the address? The McDonald's on Clayborne, mama. Twenty-eight fifty-six Clayborne.

• 21:41Speaker 04

  I had to go through the protocol. So, I went under robbery, asked all my questions.

• 21:48Speaker 07

  Mama, please hurry up. She got a gun.

• 21:51Speaker 04

  Who have a gun?

• 21:53Speaker 07

  The lady. It's a lady. Please, mama.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  Okay. Is she inside or outside?

• 22:03Speaker 04

  Hello?

• 22:05Speaker 07

  She's inside.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Okay, is she inside? She's inside the location?

• 22:13Speaker 04

  Is she trying to rob the store?

• 22:18Speaker 04

  I have to ask you these questions, baby. Is she inside the store?

• 22:24Speaker 07

  Yes, mama, she's inside the.

• 22:26Speaker 04

  And she's trying to rob it?

• 22:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, she's trying.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  Give me a description.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Give me a description. Hello?

• 22:43Speaker 07

  With a backpack, mama, please.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Okay, we're gonna hurry. Give me a description.

• 22:50Speaker 07

  She's a black lady. She got a mask on. She got somebody outside.

• 22:58Speaker 07

  And she got us in the freezer, mama, please.

• 23:00Speaker 04

  You're in the freezer?

• 23:02Speaker 07

  Yes, she has us in the freezer.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  When she said, like, "We're in the freezer", that was my break of heart. Because during the call, I had, believe it or not, tears in my eyes. You know, but I was trying to remain calm, like, to get help, to feed them the information, just in case, you know, when I'm saying, "What was she wearing", in case the police come in their way. And a lot of citizens don't realize, we asking for a description, because when the police come, and they don't just have one unit, they have multiple units, someone might spot the bad guy. So that was my reason for asking.

• 23:46Phoebe Judge?

  What did you... You were calm, but what was going on in your body?

• 23:51Speaker 04

  I sounded calm. I wasn't calm.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Because I hit the mute button, talking about, "That's my child. Y'all get somebody to McDonald's", when she said, "We're in the freezer", and you heard me say, "In the freezer", I... We can't never call no caller, baby. You heard me say, "Baby, we coming. Baby, I'm coming"? I went into mother mode.

• 24:20Speaker 07

  Please, come on, hurry up.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Baby, I am. I'm gonna send somebody. I have to ask you these questions. Was she on foot?

• 24:29Speaker 07

  All right. Yes, she's on foot.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  Okay, and y'all inside the location?

• 24:35Speaker 07

  Yes, mama.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  We're gonna get someone out, okay? I have to ask you these questions. How many of y'all are in the freezer? How many of y'all are in the freezer?

• 24:48Speaker 07

  It's five of us. It's five of us.

• 24:52Speaker 07

  It's fabulous. It's four girls and one boy.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  All right. Okay, what's your name? What's your name?

• 25:03Speaker 07

  Tania. Tania Hill.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  Okay. We're gonna have someone to come out, okay? Y'all in McDonald's. What's your...

• 25:11Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Okay. We're gonna get someone out, okay?

• 25:17Speaker 04

  All right?

• 25:18Speaker 07

  All right. All right.

• 25:19Speaker 04

  Okay, call us back if anything changed, if y'all have further information.

• 25:24Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 25:25Speaker 04

  All right.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  To hear your child call out for help,

• 25:34Speaker 04

  and you not there, and your child begging you for help,

• 25:40Speaker 04

  and really, you... I'm sending help, but at the time, I'm not there to grab my child and tell her it's gonna be all right.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  It was painful.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  I'm a single parent, and,

• 26:01Speaker 04

  you know, I'm all she have.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  And that time when she needed me the most, it wasn't nothing but God that I was in her ear saying, "We coming. Mama coming". But then I had to switch it back to being professional. I wasn't nervous, right?

• 26:26Speaker 04

  I'm like, you know,

• 26:29Speaker 04

  will I see my child? Will my child get home? But I'm trained to do my job.

• 26:44Phoebe Judge?

  We'll be right back.

• 27:02Phoebe Judge?

  Tania, take me through what was... What happened? What was going on right before you called 911?

• 27:11Speaker 05

  So, that is school. I really did not feel good. Like, I had a headache. And my friends, it's crazy, because my friends, they was like, "Don't go to work, girl. Don't go to work". I'm like, "No, I gotta go to work. I need my money". So I go to work, and I'm like, "Okay, this gonna be a regular shift. It's fine". I'm like, "Okay". I'm looking at the clock. Time almost up. We about to go. Then, we seen somebody come in with a hoodie. So I thought they was about to order. So I say, "Hey, how you doing? Walking to McDonald's? How may I help you"? And he had another girl. She was walking over there to go take their order or whatever. But instead, she came to the back. And me and my coworker, we looking like,

• 27:56Speaker 05

  "Is this actually for real? Like, are we really getting robbed right now"? So, I looked, and I'm like... Usually, I always do this. Like, even if I'm at school or something, if I tuck my phone, I tuck it in the back, and I'll pull my shirt down. That way, you can't really see. I don't remember clearly, but I really think that I walked sideways. That way, she wouldn't be able to see it. It was some way that I put it. That way, she wouldn't be able to see. I still had my phone on me. So, when I seen the gun, because I remember, she said... I'll never forget this. She said, "Y'all think I'm playing"? And she pulled the gun up, and I was like, "Oh". And like, I'm the type of person, I really don't like guns. They really scare me, honestly.

• 28:41Speaker 05

  But I'm like, "Oh, wow, okay". So, I'm like, "I gotta be calm, because if I don't listen to what she's saying, I could get hurt". So I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna just follow what she doing". So at first, she was gonna take us to the back, but then she realized we had a freezer or whatever. So she put us in the freezer. So I'm like, "Okay". So I can't get out. Stuck in the freezer. I got my phone. So, usually, people's phones don't work in the freezer. But I'm like, "I know my phone about to work". So she closed the door, and I wait about like, five to 10 seconds before, like, after she closed the door or whatever. And I'm like, "Okay, I'm calling 911". So, calling 911. I'm expecting somebody to hear my voice and probably notice me.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  Because at the job, like, I'm well-known. Everybody know me as Terry Daughter or Terry Twin. So, I call, and I hear her voice. And I'm like, "This ain't nobody but God". So, she was like, "What are they wearing"? I'm like, "I'm trying to remember what they wearing", because like, at this time, I'm trying to remain calm, because that's what I was starting to do. You call the police, something going on, you remain calm. Because if you yelling, they can't understand what you're saying. So I'm like, "I can't yell".

• 29:51Phoebe Judge?

  And had your mother told you that always stay calm? Is that something you had learned from your mother?

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Yes. I learned that you're not supposed to yell at adults. Don't raise your voice. So, you know, I'm talking calm, and at the same time, I can't be disrespectful. And I can't yell, because the lady could probably be outside the door. I can't be disrespectful. That's my mama. So, yeah, so I'm like, I gotta make sure that I'm able to tell her this calmly and clearly. That way, she could be able to hear. And this was like, a real big thing for me, because like, out of everybody who was in the freezer, I was the youngest. So I'm like, "Gotta... I gotta show that I'm not that childish. I can't be scared". So, in the middle of the call, I tell my mom, I'm like, "Ma, she got us in the freezer", because I'm shivering, but I'm telling her at the same time. So like, I didn't know if she was able to hear me. I'm like, "She got us in the freezer".

• 30:42Speaker 05

  And when I heard my mama, she was like, "You in the freezer"? And I know when my mama cry. Like, my mama was never always the type to like, just cry.

• 30:50Phoebe Judge?

  I mean, this was your first job, too?

• 30:53Speaker 05

  Yes. It was actually my first week. That was the first week on the job. So, towards the end of the call, I could just hear my mama crying, like, in her voice. I could hear the change of tone. And I looked at the phone, like, "Wait, mama, I'm really crying". So everybody, they like, "Are they only way? Are they only way"? That's why I kept saying, "Mama, can you please send somebody? Please", because I'm scared, and everybody else behind me scared. But I can't show I'm scared, because I'm on the phone. Nobody else wanted to call the police, but I was gonna call the police.

• 31:27Phoebe Judge?

  Once you hung up the phone, the call ended with Tania, what did you do?

• 31:35Speaker 04

  I stood up. I told the manager on duty,

• 31:40Speaker 04

  I gotta go. That was my baby. I was so nervous. I couldn't even log. I couldn't log out. I told them, log me out. I'm gone. And I clocked out.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  I got to, her job is maybe two miles away.

• 31:59Speaker 04

  Three miles the most. I got to Tania's job like in about five minutes.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  I ran red lights. I had to get to my child. And once I arrived there, one of the sergeant, she met me out there and she was like, your baby is okay, Terry. You, you know, you know, the protocol. You can't come in. It's a crime scene. And I was like, just let me hold her. So she was like, you know, we have a couple of more questions for her and then you can get her. So I had to wait outside, pace. When she came out, we hugged each other out there. Maybe like three minutes, you know, just tears.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  That was, no offense, mommy, that was the, that was the first time ever that I just wanted to run and go hug my mom. Like, I got out and I was like, my mom here. And that's straight what I went to. I went straight to my mom. And that hug was like, that was one of those like, you know how it's been a long day? And you just want to go get in the shower and go to sleep? That was that type of hug. Like, it was really a relief.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  That night, my daughter slept with me. I allow her to sleep with me because she cannot sleep with me. Um, and I went to work the next morning.

• 33:37Phoebe Judge?

  Did, did the people who robbed the McDonald's ever get caught? Were they found?

• 33:42Speaker 04

  Not to my knowledge.

• 33:45Phoebe Judge?

  Has anything changed about how you answer calls after, after what happened with Tania?

• 33:54Speaker 04

  To be honest with you,

• 33:57Speaker 04

  when I'm at work now, I'm a,

• 34:05Speaker 04

  I answer calls, but

• 34:08Speaker 04

  every time I answer, or if I know Tania not where, like at school or something, my first thought be, oh, Lord, please don't let this be my child. You know, it's a little frightening now that you don't want a call like you received before.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  When I get calls to where people been robbed of a family member, they didn't found their family member inside, not breathing, unconscious, or they possibly think they're dead. You have more empathy because to see a family member go through something, you know, you kind of see how they feel, even though it was over the telephone. I felt my daughter pain. I felt my daughter, she was in, she was scared for her life. So I know how they could feel, if that answer your question.

• 35:07Phoebe Judge?

  Well, if I ever have to call 911, I'd be very glad if you were on the other side.

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

• 35:17Phoebe Judge?

  Tania, what do you think about being a 911 operator now?

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Well, that is a job that I cannot do because that's like a job for a very strong person. And my mom is the strongest person I know. So, you know, that's a job for a very strong person.

• 35:37Phoebe Judge?

  Well, you sound pretty strong yourself. I bet your mother would say the same thing.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  I get it from my mom.

• 35:57Phoebe Judge?

  We first released this episode in 2024. Tania Hill started college that year, and she just got a job driving ambulances. Terry Clark still works as a 911 operator.

• 36:10Phoebe Judge?

  Criminal is created by Lauren Spoor and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Roberson, Jackie Sajiko, Lilly Clark, and Lena Silson. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Julianne Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com/newsletter. We hope you'll consider supporting our work by joining our membership program, Criminal Plus, at patreon.com/criminal. You can listen to Criminal, This is Love, and Phoebe Reads a Mystery without any ads.

• 36:53Phoebe Judge?

  Plus, you'll get bonus episodes. These are special episodes with me and Criminal co-creator Lauren Spoor, talking about everything from how we make our episodes to the crime stories that caught our attention that week, to things we've been enjoying lately. To learn more, go to patreon.com/criminal. We're on Facebook at This is Criminal and Instagram and TikTok at criminal_podcast. We're also on YouTube at youtube.com/criminalpodcast. Criminal is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal.