Road Rage (Please Continue)

Today, an unlocked episode of Please Continue, in which Phoebe and Lauren discuss tense driving moments - including one encounter that still gives Phoebe chills. Plus, Phoebe’s mortifying habit, the next big trend in New York City, and very small pumpkins. If you enjoyed listening to today's Please Continue episode and you'd like to hear more - ⁠⁠⁠join us on Patreon⁠⁠⁠. It's the very best way to support our work here at Criminal. You'll have access to all 80+ of these special episodes with Phoebe and Lauren, plus ad-free listening, behind-the-scenes videos with Phoebe and Criminal producers, chat rooms, live events, and more. Thank you very much. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Phoebe Judge?

  Hi, it's Phoebe. I'm going on tour. The show is called Don't Worry. If you like hearing me tell stories about people, I've decided to tell stories about my life and the people I love. I'll introduce you to my parents and my sisters and the secrets our family kept. Well, some of us kept. I had to tell somebody. Just because you were eight, that didn't mean I couldn't tell you. I hope it's funny. I hope it's surprising. Find all our tour dates and get tickets at thisiscriminal.com/live. Hi, it's Phoebe. Today, we're sharing the latest episode of Please Continue with all

• 0:43Phoebe Judge?

  of you. This is the show I make along with criminal co-creator Lauren Spoor, and it's pretty different from Criminal, as you'll hear when you listen. We talk about everything from wild headlines in the news to the television shows we're watching to the best seltzer flavors. I talk about my current favorite in this episode. I think you all should try it. I also tell Lauren the story of the time I was pulled over by a police officer. We've made more than 80 of these episodes, so if you want to listen back to more of them, you can do that by becoming a Criminal Plus member. Sign up at patreon.com/criminal. Now, here's the show. Welcome to Criminal Plus. I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  The show's called Please Continue.

• 1:29Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, please continue.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor. Nailed it.

• 1:35Phoebe Judge?

  I have a... I may have committed a crime, and I want your take on this. I feel like I've committed a crime. It happened yesterday. I was driving. I am a cautious driver. I'm not a speed demon. I don't have a lead foot. I never have. I'm actually a very cautious driver. I don't appreciate when people ride me from behind. You know, I just don't like aggressive drivers. So I was driving yesterday, and I was being very mindful, just cautious,

• 2:14Phoebe Judge?

  and I was about to turn left into a gas station, and I heard this beeping, this horn. Someone was laying on the horn. And I looked all around, because I kind of thought, oh, what's happening? Who's... What could be wrong? And I couldn't really see anything. And then I realized that it was someone laying on the horn at me. And it was a silver RAV4 that came up to my right side, and it was an older woman, a woman of a certain age, laying on the horn, just kind of putting her hand up, like, what are you doing? What are you doing?

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Because you were going too slow.

• 2:50Phoebe Judge?

  No, I don't think I was... I don't know, but I was completely baffled. I just thought to myself, what are you... I'm not doing anything wrong. And so I was very confused, and she kept going, what are you doing? What are you doing? And looking behind me in the mirror, and something happened. And you know what?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  You followed her and rammed her.

• 3:12Phoebe Judge?

  No, but I'd had enough. I'd had enough. And you know what I did?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  The finger.

• 3:17Phoebe Judge?

  I gave this old woman a middle finger.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Did you do it discreetly up between the seats or arm out the window?

• 3:26Phoebe Judge?

  She was in front of me by this point, turning around going, what are you doing? And finally, I'd had enough, and I went...

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Facing forward.

• 3:32Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, just like that, at my windshield.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  And did she see?

• 3:35Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, she saw. Yes, she saw. She could be more... But I just thought... And then I pulled into the gas station. I thought, well, Phoebe, you've just given the middle finger to an 80-year-old woman. But she deserved it. And she wasn't a meek flower. With the number of bumper stickers she had on the back of her car, I figured she could handle it.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  What did they say?

• 3:58Phoebe Judge?

  I don't...

• 3:59Speaker 01

  How many?

• 4:00Phoebe Judge?

  You know, that funny bumper sticker? Keep honking, I'm listening to the Indigo Girls.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  No, I like that.

• 4:07Phoebe Judge?

  Anyway, I felt bad about it.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  It is temperamentally something that I have done. I have both been the honker and the finger giver. But you actually don't seem like someone who gets full of road rage.

• 4:19Phoebe Judge?

  Never. But do you remember when the man at the Whole Foods in Durham, do you remember that he thought that I had cut him off?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Well, I think you actually just drove in the bike lane for a second.

• 4:30Phoebe Judge?

  But to take a right-hand turn, there were no bikes. I mean, again, nothing that I was trying to be aggressive or cut. And he followed me into the Whole Foods parking lot and confronted me and said his wife was a biker and how... And he was so full of rage. And I looked at him, and I just thought to myself, what is going on here? Because it can't be... But what... And you know what I said to him? I said, I feel sorry for your wife, very calmly. And you know what I think? And you're going to say, Phoebe, of course... I think he recognized my voice.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:04Phoebe Judge?

  And I think he was a listener.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  All right.

• 5:06Phoebe Judge?

  Anyway, I just gave this old woman the finger, and I felt bad about it in the middle of the night, but I think it was deserved. And that's it in the story.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  There's another thing like this that happened once. What was it?

• 5:18Phoebe Judge?

  A road rage incident?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:21Phoebe Judge?

  Well, you sometimes don't like that I will stare at someone if I think that they've committed some offense. You know, if I think someone has done something rude or if they're talking too loudly, namely, a man in the Sky Lounge having his full meeting on speakerphone pacing loudly, I do stare at him, just hoping that he's getting the message that this is incredibly rude.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Have you ever told the story about Officer Metz here?

• 5:53Phoebe Judge?

  When I got pulled over for the DUI?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Most misleading headline.

• 5:57Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know if I have. That's another crime. You want me to tell the story? It's a wild story.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I mean, at this point, it's very old, right?

• 6:06Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, yeah. It's... Oh, God, it's 15 years old. I was pulled over one night because I was driving in an old Volvo, and it had no license plates. And the person I was driving with told me that it was okay because she had a little piece of paper in the glove compartment, and it was okay that it had no license plates. And so we got pulled over, rightfully so. And I was driving, and an officer, a North Carolina police officer, got out of the car, and he said, ma'am, do you know why I pulled you over? And I said, oh, it's because we don't have any license plates. And he said, no, it's because you didn't use your turn signal. And he said, he looked in the car, and I had been to a

• 6:50Phoebe Judge?

  concert, and he said...

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Indigo Girls?

• 6:53Phoebe Judge?

  Greg Brown. He said, have either of you had anything to drink tonight? And I said, yes, officer, I have. I had half a bottle of beer, which is true. I'd had half of a 12-ounce bottle of beer at the concert. And I was just completely... I said, yes, yes, I had half a bottle of beer. And he said, I'm going to need you to step out of the car. And I thought, what? And I got out of the car, and he had me... He said, you've admitted to drinking tonight, and I'm going to need to give you a breathalyzer. And those words, my life shattered. I didn't know what to do. And he had me get in the front seat of the cop car, and I sat next to him. And he said, okay, so you're just going to

• 7:37Phoebe Judge?

  breathe into this. And I panicked. And I thought... And somehow, what happened in my head is that the half of a beer that I'd had three hours earlier had lodged itself in my throat, and that when I took the breathalyzer, the beer was just going to go immediately. So I thought, I can't do this. I thought my life is ending. I started talking to him about he didn't understand that. I just... It was really... So I was so wild that then I believe he thought that I was hiding something else, like I was probably on many drugs. It changed.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Because you were so disproportionately afraid.

• 8:14Phoebe Judge?

  He was saying, you know, listen, hey, my buddies and I, sometimes we have beers and we like have breathalyzers. We have like so many beers, and we have breathalyzers, and we're fine. He said, you're fine. And yes, because...

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Just to get you to relax, to agree to the breathalyzer?

• 8:27Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, but then it switched.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  But you were getting more and more uptight?

• 8:31Phoebe Judge?

  Wild, wild, just in my panic and just talking to him about my family, talking about me, talking. And he, I think, finally said, this girl's on something. I don't know what it is, but... And then he got serious, and he said, ma'am, you have two options. You're either going to blow into this breathalyzer, or I'm taking you to the station. And Lauren, I honestly, I honestly almost said to him, take me to the station.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  That's what you're supposed to do.

• 8:58Phoebe Judge?

  This close. And then something happened, and I just gave up. What does it say when you just...

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Go limp.

• 9:06Phoebe Judge?

  I went limp. Just take me, universe, take me. It's over. This is my head. It's been a good ride. It's over now.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  What was the breathalyzer like?

• 9:15Phoebe Judge?

  It's this little tube you blow into, like a nebulizer, though I've never done that. And I turned, so I turned it, and I really just... I remember just looking at him and just saying, go ahead. And I blew into it. I blew into this tube. And I really, it just was like, this is it. Phoebe, it's been a good ride. It's over. And he turned it towards him. And then he turned it back towards me and on the breathalyzer to double zero. Absolutely nothing in my system. And I swear to you, he, at that point, he looked at me and he said, have a nice day, ma'am.

• 9:56Phoebe Judge?

  He just wanted me out of his car. He just thought, I need this woman away from me. She's clearly got other things going on. Double zero.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  I would like to find him.

• 10:07Phoebe Judge?

  To ask what it was like in that car. Yeah, so that is my, was my one. But you always told me that. I mean, you always said, there's some, there's some thought that if you do get pulled over, you're not supposed to tell the officer what you've had. Is that right?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Well, what I was always told is that you should always say no. That it's not a crime to lie to a police officer.

• 10:28Phoebe Judge?

  But I just thought, what's the?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  We are not giving legal advice here.

• 10:31Phoebe Judge?

  No, we aren't. And, but I just, I didn't know that. And I thought.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  But I think if you say yes, then they have to find out what's up.

• 10:39Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, boy, I just remember just, I went limp. I, I think he had to put the thing in my mouth for me because I had just, just completely lost all ability to function.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Remember when I drove away, I drove away from your house once, many years ago, and I was T-boned at a slow speed? And I remember I called my dad immediately and he said, have you been drinking? And I said, no, which was true. And then, but in the car, I had a small, for Christmas, some friends of ours had made Skittles flavored vodka shooters. Do you remember this? So I had, like in my, I had like in my console, a little tiny bottle of, of like Skittles infused vodka that someone had given me for Christmas that was clearly like not a professionally sealed item.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  And I was so afraid of the police finding that. And I was like, should I chuck it into someone's yard? Would that be worse?

• 11:38Phoebe Judge?

  Should I just drink it all right now?

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Right?

• 11:40Phoebe Judge?

  Take the shot? Yeah, I, I, listen, it still gives me chills to even think about that encounter with Officer Metz.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Double zero.

• 11:48Phoebe Judge?

  Double zero. Ma'am, you're free to go.

• 11:53Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, I want to tell you a story, but do you want to tell me anything first?

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Like a secret?

• 12:00Phoebe Judge?

  It doesn't, no, no, I'm just checking in with you to see if I can tell you the story.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Do you ever just like not feel like yourself?

• 12:07Phoebe Judge?

  Sometimes when I'm doing crunches.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  And who do you feel like then?

• 12:18Phoebe Judge?

  Ever since I was a little girl, this is going to sound so funny. Sometimes when I'm doing hard core exercises.

• 12:30Phoebe Judge?

  I, this is going to sound really wild. I feel like there is a little woman, ever since I was little, that's kind of lives in like my diaphragm. And she's like a librarian. And she, I just recognize her presence when I'm doing core exercises. Does that sound wild?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  And are you crushing her room?

• 12:56Phoebe Judge?

  No.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  When you crunch?

• 12:58Phoebe Judge?

  She's just kind of raise, rises up and she's there.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  She rises up and watches you like a genie?

• 13:04Phoebe Judge?

  Kind of.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  And she represents an old PE teacher?

• 13:08Phoebe Judge?

  No, no, it's a kind of a librarian. I've never met her before.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I saw some girls, I live near a high school, and I saw some girls running at like 8:30 in the morning, which means that they signed up for first period PE.

• 13:21Phoebe Judge?

  Hmm, get it out of the way. I totally get it.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  But then do you have to shower and get dressed for your day at school?

• 13:27Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know, I don't think people do it because now everyone just wears exercise clothes all the time. So I don't know.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  So they don't shower?

• 13:32Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, I don't, yeah. Because people are just wearing pajamas and sweatpants every day.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  It just really returned me to the memory of having to like change after PE and feeling like you had no time. And I hope they don't do that anymore.

• 13:46Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah. We had to wear certain clothes.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here.

• 13:52Phoebe Judge?

  Maroon sweatpants. We had to wear a St. Ignatius kind of outfit. It wasn't like you could wear anything. It was an outfit you had to put on, gym clothes. Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  And then you had to just remember to take them home and do the laundry and bring them back. And it's just like, it was like more than a seventh grader can handle.

• 14:12Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Phoebe? How are you feeling about the tour?

• 14:16Phoebe Judge?

  I'm feeling really excited. The tour, the Don't Worry with Phoebe Judge, the tour's coming up in, in a couple of weeks. And you know, we just got the merch for the tour, Lauren.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, tell me, do you have it?

• 14:26Phoebe Judge?

  I don't have it. I can't hold it up for you. I wish I could, but we have, and I, I think it's really good. I think.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Is the T-shirt too, too hard plasticky?

• 14:33Phoebe Judge?

  No, it's great. The T-shirt's great, the hat's great, the, it's good. I'm excited about it. It says, Don't Worry, which is a nice little mantra. But the Don't Worry tour is happening and I'm very excited about it. I'm excited about traveling all over the country. I'm excited about seeing so many of you. And the good thing is that a lot of these venues are not gigantic. And so I get to actually see you and meet you. And I love that. Sometimes when you're in a really big theater, you feel very far away and you don't get to come and say hi. But these theaters are small. And so I hope I get to meet a lot of you and say hi, you know, before the show, after the show.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Should we implement some crowd work into the show?

• 15:13Phoebe Judge?

  You always want crowd participation and I love that. This is, anyone who comes to the beginning, early shows, if you can, if, I will take any of your thoughts about where we could implement crowd participation. You mean like crowd surfing? What if I crowd served?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  No, I mean like interacting with audience members. Where you, you sort of like look at them in the front row and you say, are y'all on a date?

• 15:36Phoebe Judge?

  I could try it. I'm open to anything because we're really trying new thing. But tickets are going fast and there are some cities that are going to sell out soon if they haven't already. So if, if, New York and Minneapolis and Los Angeles and San Francisco, if you come, but get your tickets now because they're kind of going quick. And I'd love to, I'd love to see all of you and I'd love to meet all of you. And I'd love your thoughts about this show. I'm really excited about it. I hope people laugh and then they sob. It seems like those are the two. What do you think, Lauren? That seems like the range of emotions.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  That's the ideal experience for anything.

• 16:19Phoebe Judge?

  I hope so. That's what, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted people to kind of look at who they're sitting next to and mouth.

• 16:28Phoebe Judge?

  Did you see what I just mouthed? Kind of like, what is happening? So yes, I'm very excited. And the first show's in Chicago, which feels right because a lot of this story takes place in Chicago. So we're going to be in Chicago.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Did you see on Instagram, someone said, and your second grade teacher will be there?

• 16:47Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, my second grade teacher is coming from LaSalle Language Academy. She's coming and that's Ms. Waller is coming. And she wrote me a note and I'm so, well, isn't that nice? But I'm really excited. Chicago's first and then we'll go to Philadelphia. I love Philadelphia. You know what I think I'm going to have in Philadelphia?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Cheese steak.

• 17:06Phoebe Judge?

  A cheesesteak, a good one too. I've been doing research. And then Boston, which is, you know, always wonderful to me because like it's kind of a second home and I've, and then New York, which will be really fun. Get your tickets for New York because that's the Bell House first night and then Manhattan, second night in Manhattan, the first night. And then on and on from there. And then we get to come to North Carolina too, which it'll be fun to be back. You'll be there in the North Carolina show, Lauren, of course. You might be selling T-shirts out front. Did you know that? Yeah, if you want to buy a T-shirt from Lauren Spore herself, look for the woman. Are you going to wear the Phoebe Judge hat again?

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 17:44Phoebe Judge?

  In the Phoebe Judge hat at the merch table in Raleigh. So anyway, yeah, I'm excited. I'm, I'm excited. I hope we'll see you. You know what, I was, we were writing something and, and I thought the funny thing about this show is that many of the stories I'm telling could be either on love or criminal. You know, they kind of, they actually could be episodes themselves in some way, except they're about my family.

• 18:14Phoebe Judge?

  Can I tell you the story now?

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:16Phoebe Judge?

  Save any eye rolling. I'm not going to say that. I don't want to ruin it.

• 18:23Phoebe Judge?

  I just want you to know that this is not, I know that you've said in the past that I'm your favorite storyteller on earth.

• 18:30Phoebe Judge?

  This isn't a story. This is a dispatch. This is real. This is journalism. This is reporting.

• 18:39Phoebe Judge?

  Last week, I was clamming. I love to clam. And you go at low tide, and I go very, very far out because by this time of year, you know, the kind of clambers have gotten the stuff in. So I go really, really far out at low tide. So I'm so far out, I'm at my chest with my clam rake and my bucket, which I tie around my waist, and then I have a float-

• 19:02Speaker 01

  The water's not going in your armpits?

• 19:04Phoebe Judge?

  I was wearing waders, actually, just above, so just chest level. Risky business. You really don't want your waders to fill up, so risky business. But I'm telling you this story for two reasons. One, because I think it highlights something we've talked about my personality before, which I wonder if any...

• 19:23Phoebe Judge?

  Like when I almost allowed the plane to be grounded in Nebraska when I wouldn't say that I was wearing essential oils and there wasn't hazardous fumes on the plane. It's kind of the same.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  So that's called, like, we could just call that one coward.

• 19:35Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, this is also, it's wonderfully brave, coward at the same time. That's what this story is going to be. Both ends of the spectrum. So I'm out there clamming, and I love it, and I find it very, very meditative. And I love, I will stay out there for hours raking, and you have this long rake, probably a five-foot rake with a basket on the end, a metal basket with tines. And then you rake through, and you can, if you clam for long enough, you can hear when your tine hits a rock, as opposed to a clam shell. You can kind of just hear what's going on. And then you take it up and you see what's in there, and you dump your cohog, which are the hard shell clams, into your basket that's floating.

• 20:20Phoebe Judge?

  So out there, I was having a great time. I see that another man, an older gentleman, is also, an old timer, doing what I'm doing. We're way far out, has come out there. He's doing, you don't really, you kind of look up, and it's bad form to go to where someone else is. You know, you don't want to, that would just be stealing, you know, this is my area, that was his area. But he wasn't that far away. And so I'm out there, I'm having a great time. And all of the sudden, I turn around, and about 10 feet away, 12 feet away,

• 20:49Phoebe Judge?

  I see in the water, two fins.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:55Phoebe Judge?

  And I think to myself, oh, a sunfish, which kind of has a fin that flops over, and you can see it. And I think, a sunfish, which are gigantic things, completely harmless. And I think a sunfish. And then I look, and I realize that the way that the two fins are moving, this isn't a sunfish, it's a shark. And it's not a small shark, it's a six-foot shark. And I think to myself, well, what do you do now? Because you are so far offshore that you actually kind of go deeper before you get into shore. And you're wearing these waders. And I turn, so I kept my eyes on it.

• 21:38Phoebe Judge?

  And now, listen, I'm not telling you that this shark was trying to eat me, but I did kind of look like a seal in this navy-green wetsuit. And I thought, well, it'll just swim away. And it didn't. It kind of just went back and forth, parallel. And now, here is where the brave part comes in. I turned my back to it, and I had my rake out, and I thought, Phoebe, don't worry. You're going to be okay. I was nervous, but don't worry, you're going to be okay. If it comes near you, you're going to take your rake, and you're going to jam it in its eyes. You're just going to, you know, and I had it, and I was backing up. Brave.

• 22:19Phoebe Judge?

  Here's the other side of it. I was a little embarrassed, that I was scared, I don't know. There was this older gentleman, not that far away, and I, here's the wild thing. I thought to myself, do I bother him and let him know that there's a shark?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Are you crazy?

• 22:35Phoebe Judge?

  I know, I know, I know. And I thought, should I-

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Because you wanted it to be, because what if it wasn't a shark?

• 22:42Phoebe Judge?

  And I would, yeah, and maybe he didn't care, and he would have think, why is this girl telling me? I don't, I don't know. And I said, and I thought about it as I was backing up. And I said, excuse me.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Oh, good, thank God.

• 22:54Phoebe Judge?

  I said, excuse me, and I said, I don't know if you care, but there's a shark right there. And he said, what? And I said, yes, a shark. You don't have to come in, I'm going to go in, but if there's a shark right there, I'm sorry to bother. And so the two of us backed all the way, with our faces too, backed all the way into shore. Now, people think sharks need a lot of water. They don't. They need very little water.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  You learn that from our sharks episode, that they will come-

• 23:22Phoebe Judge?

  Very close.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  You're not safe in shallow water.

• 23:25Phoebe Judge?

  So I hadn't-

• 23:25Speaker 01

  You think you are. I always think I am, you're not.

• 23:27Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, I had my rake out, though, in front of me. And the old man, also, we backed our way in together.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Why did you back in?

• 23:35Phoebe Judge?

  Because I wanted to see it. Why would I turn my-

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Just in case. Okay, I see, I see.

• 23:39Phoebe Judge?

  Back on the shark. Yeah, because I needed to have my, I had my rake.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  So it wasn't like a no sudden movements logic. It was a like, need to watch if this shark comes closer.

• 23:49Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, and you need to move, Phoebe, backwards in my waders. Anyway, that's my story. I don't know why I'm telling you this story.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  And did you and the man have a moment after that?

• 23:58Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, we had a moment.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  And what'd you talk about?

• 24:01Phoebe Judge?

  We talked about that. He said, well, that was wild. He said, maybe, well, we talked about what type of shark. And I did a lot of research out. It was a great white.

• 24:12Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, it was. A basking shark would have been the other kind, and it wasn't that.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Did you find it on the tracker?

• 24:19Phoebe Judge?

  You know, the tracker, the trackers don't track all the sharks around here. But I was, I'm just telling you that that happened. And like me giving the middle finger to the woman of a certain age, I also need to reckon that I did question whether I should bother the man.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Well, I think that you did tell him, cancels out the middle finger. One good deed cancels out one bad deed.

• 24:43Phoebe Judge?

  Good. Yeah, what a world, huh? What a world. Out there, out there were sharks. That's the end of the story.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Once I laid on my horn so aggressively with someone that they exited the highway at the same exit of me and then followed me around, so I wouldn't go home. So I just drove in circles until they-

• 25:06Phoebe Judge?

  That's scary.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Far away from my house, until they moved on. Yes, so I learned a lesson that day.

• 25:11Phoebe Judge?

  You know what, Lauren? You have a lead foot.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  You say that all the time, and it is not true.

• 25:18Phoebe Judge?

  I am shocked, sometimes when we drive together, how fast you go.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  That's, it's just-

• 25:22Phoebe Judge?

  You whip around.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  I think you're just having like, an anxiety experience, because I never go more than 46 miles an hour.

• 25:28Phoebe Judge?

  I'm just telling you that I have found that you are, there are fast drivers, and they're not fast drivers, and they fall into camps. And, yeah, I live with someone who lays on the horn and is a very fast driver, and it drives me wild. And when I make comments, the comment back to me is, the worst thing in the world is a driver who's not aggressive. Like, you have to be, to be safe, you have to be an aggressive driver. So that's one way to think about it.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Well, learning to drive in Chicago seems like an interesting experience.

• 26:03Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, people have personalities. I think learning to drive in New York City feels like an experience.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  You know what I bought for my house?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  A metal no soliciting sign. Do you want me to get you one?

• 26:15Phoebe Judge?

  What? No. That seems bad.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Why? Does it seem like I'm like a grumpy person?

• 26:22Phoebe Judge?

  It seems like a NIMBY thing.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Like, don't, but it, but isn't everyone a NIMBY when it comes to a Google Fiber salesperson?

• 26:30Phoebe Judge?

  So if you put the no solicitation sign in your, it means that Google Fiber is not legally allowed to come up?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  I haven't investigated that.

• 26:38Phoebe Judge?

  It's, so it's just a gentle reminder, not, they aren't breaking a law if they solicit if you have the sign out?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 26:46Phoebe Judge?

  That would be interesting.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Okay, I feel like I have to come clean. I have two signs.

• 26:49Phoebe Judge?

  What?

• 26:51Phoebe Judge?

  At the bottom and at the top, just to remind them if they get too far, if they miss the first one?

• 26:55Speaker 01

  We have, I have a solicitor come probably once a day.

• 26:59Phoebe Judge?

  From Google Fiber, selling you something?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  All kinds of things. Roof repair, tree trimming service. It's constant, and I find it really stressful to have to ask these people not to come back.

• 27:13Phoebe Judge?

  Here's one thing you can always do, though. Not answer the door. So I understand that they're gonna knock, but if you see it's someone from, no, the poor gentleman who's just trying to-

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I feel really startled when the doorbell rings in the middle of the day. Like, I just don't, I don't want it. I don't have to have it. That's my feeling. So I went on Etsy and found some, what I think are somewhat attractive, no soliciting signs. But I do feel kind of self-conscious.

• 27:40Phoebe Judge?

  I would feel self-conscious about needing to go to Etsy to buy them. I mean-

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Well, the ones that they sell at like Lowe's or something felt too, felt too, I don't know, industrial or depressing or something. So I wanted it to have a little, small amount of social graces.

• 27:58Phoebe Judge?

  Well-

• 27:58Speaker 01

  It also says, "Thank you."

• 28:00Phoebe Judge?

  I'll be very, I'll be very interested to know if, if they work.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Well, I'm looking out the window now and thinking, somebody just sort of hovered in their car. You don't have the people on the little hoverboards or segways go up and down your street all day long with an iPad relentlessly trying to sell you an alarm system?

• 28:17Phoebe Judge?

  What a hard job, huh?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Of course. But I, I find it really disturbing. Like, disturbing is a dramatic word, but like, it really like, startles me and disrupts my day. And then I, I really don't want to be rude. And then sometimes they'll like, ask for water and it just feels like a sort of, like a kind of an invasion. I don't know. It startles me.

• 28:37Phoebe Judge?

  Did you see what I did for you today?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:39Phoebe Judge?

  You don't notice anything different about me today?

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Your appearance?

• 28:43Phoebe Judge?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Uh, you buttoned your top button.

• 28:46Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Did you notice what I'm wearing today?

• 28:48Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, you have kind of a Phoebe look today.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. It's a long-sleeved, black t-shirt.

• 28:53Phoebe Judge?

  And I have, see, this is, this is hip. This is how you would do it if you were, is this normcore? No. This is just hip.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I think that's great.

• 29:00Phoebe Judge?

  No, this feels very unnatural to me. Because everything in the world wants me to do something different right now. Do you know what that is?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  You want to pop that collar?

• 29:08Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, I want to do this. And this makes me feel, see, I've been kind of not comfortable. I'm comfortable now. Now I'm okay. I'm cool. I'm so much better now.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  I think this is the first time I've bought a long-sleeved t-shirt.

• 29:22Phoebe Judge?

  You're telling me that the way that this jacket was looked better before. It looked more hip than this?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  If I were you, and I could purchase that jacket over again, I would go one size up.

• 29:33Phoebe Judge?

  Everyone's just wearing bags nowadays.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  It's, that's a fair comment. But I think, I do think there's something a little dated about such fitted clothes.

• 29:43Phoebe Judge?

  It's not fit. You know, I'm gonna keep it up. I'm gonna put the collar up. I'm not doing, I tried.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I have a story to tell you. It's not about jerks. It is something that I thought was very entertaining. And I know we have done our own stuff on writer scams, but I read this article on a website I'd never read before called The Dial. Have you ever read that? It's a literary, online magazine? It's not a literary, I don't know what you call it. Online magazine, never heard of it. And it is about scams targeting writers. And it plays on the sort of, the word vanity feels harsh. It plays on the desire that writers have to be noticed. And so if, if I have a book or anything, they could write to me and say, "Hey, we, I'm writing from such and such community center in Seattle, Washington. We would love to host a book club, a Zoom book club, where you join us

• 30:34Speaker 01

  and, you know, talk to us about your work." And so then I would say, "Oh, okay." And then they would say, "We would love for you to consider like, a hundred dollar contribution to our organization and as a way of acknowledging that we're gonna promote this event and we'll be selling your books and blah, blah, blah." So then I would pay them a hundred dollars or some other number. And then I would log on to the Zoom meeting and it would be, in the example that the woman, the reporter described, it would be 20 people on the Zoom, all with their cameras off, with photographs of themselves and names. And then I would give a little spiel about my writing and then they would ask me questions. But the questions, it turns out, are coming from voices that don't match the pictures at all. So it'd be like a picture of a blonde woman and then you can hear that it's like

• 31:19Speaker 01

  a man. And then the questions are also super generic. So it might be AI entirely. Because it's like, what was your inspiration? Or what surprised you? Those are the questions. And so these poor writers who have paid for this are sitting there, leading an absolutely fake book club. I mean, talk about your nightmare of Cultural Center showing up somewhere. I mean, you're, you're essentially alone. Really tragic. And you, you think that you're doing an event to promote your book. You think that the ultimate has happened, which is that not only did a group of people somewhere in the world read what you wrote, but that they want to talk to you about it, right? Such a dream. And it turns out that these scams are incredibly lucrative. And this one reporter said, "All writers want to be

• 32:03Speaker 01

  recognized. That's what these scammers are targeting. They have identified a very, very lucrative niche." Isn't that sad? One writer paid a hundred thousand dollars for what they thought was a movie deal to be arranged.

• 32:17Phoebe Judge?

  Well, it's making a gal about to go out on tour a little nervous.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Also, apparently, this, the reporter asked one woman if she felt guilty. She was one of the scammers. And she said, "Do you feel guilty ripping people off like this?" And she said, she was in Pakistan, and she said that the mentality is that Americans who are making US dollars have a stable life. And they have sustainability. And so, no, these like, much, significantly poorer people in Pakistan don't feel guilty.

• 32:47Phoebe Judge?

  That's sad.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  I mean, you've done Zoom book clubs, right? Or where people at some place want to, you know, talk to you about an episode or something?

• 32:57Phoebe Judge?

  But they've been real people.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Did you, did they have their cameras on?

• 33:00Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah. It hasn't just been static photos. I don't know if I've been part of this scam yet.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  No, I'm not saying you have. I'm just saying, we're familiar with the structure.

• 33:10Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, we're familiar with the structure.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  So a writer might say, like, "Oh, I've heard of this," and then get on there and it's totally fake. Isn't that mortifying in six different ways?

• 33:18Phoebe Judge?

  You know what else is mortifying? Should we take this out? Should we not put this in? I have this hap, it's all, it's kind of, it's, it's kind of espathetic.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Why?

• 33:28Phoebe Judge?

  New York Magazine ran an ad for the tour.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  It's a great-looking ad.

• 33:32Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, they're doing a few of them. And I was at LaGuardia last week, flying. Because we were, we were all together in New York. We had a great time. We watched Press Is Right together. I went to a tattoo-removal place. We had a fantastic time. I don't have any tattoos. But I, whoa, does it seem painful getting them off. But I was flying from LaGuardia and I went around every newsstand I could find. And I opened all the New York magazines to the tour page and I left them open.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  This is not the first time you've done this.

• 34:01Phoebe Judge?

  I do it a lot. Like, when they advertise Love or something.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  And what do you imagine is gonna happen?

• 34:06Phoebe Judge?

  I imagine that someone is browsing for a Vogue.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 34:11Phoebe Judge?

  Or something.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Like an influencer, probably.

• 34:13Phoebe Judge?

  Not, just someone, Mary, is, you know, going for a New Yorker or a Vogue. And they're reaching and they think, they see, and they think, "Oh, wait, I know that. What's, that looks interesting. I don't, do I know that name? Wait, a tour? Oh, I should check that out." That's, that's what I imagine happens. I don't ima, I don't, you know, I don't even imagine they buy the magazine. I just imagine that they-

• 34:38Speaker 01

  And then while they're standing there in the Hudson News, they pull up the website and just buy a ticket.

• 34:44Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, that's, or it's just in their head. I, I put it in their head. Anyway, so I go around, I walk around all the news links or the Hudson News, and I open the magazines. And so, and then I leave. And then I, you know, buy my bottle of water and I go to the next one. And some, I don't even buy anything. I just go in, I pretend I'm looking at a magazine, leave it open, and then I-

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Are you hoping someone will look at the picture and look at you?

• 35:06Phoebe Judge?

  No, Lauren, that's not, Lauren, that's not the point.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, you'll be holding the magazine with your photo and they'll be like-

• 35:12Phoebe Judge?

  No, that would be incredible.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  They'll be like, "Wait a second, are you famous?"

• 35:15Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, that would be incredible. Okay, here's a picture of me doing it. Can you see this?

• 35:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:21Phoebe Judge?

  Okay, this is what I did. This is the Hudson News. We'll put it up. Should we put it up? That's a bad, should we take that story out? That is a really bad story. But I did it all over LaGuardia.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Well, you're, if you're, you're nothing if not a hustler.

• 35:35Phoebe Judge?

  You know what? That is true, Lauren. That is absolutely true. Thank you.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  You're welcome.

• 35:40Phoebe Judge?

  Thank you. I, I take that as a great compliment.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  What am I?

• 35:44Phoebe Judge?

  You are more radical acceptance, I would say.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  And, and that's positive?

• 35:49Phoebe Judge?

  No, no, I think that's positive. But you're more just, let's just see what happens. Let's just, and I'm more, we've got to make it happen. You know? You're, let's see what happens. And I'm more, we got to make it happen. That's-

• 36:01Speaker 01

  And make it happen is what's it?

• 36:04Phoebe Judge?

  It all. Everything.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  You are like, pushing the boulder.

• 36:08Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, always pushing the boulder. And you're kind of like-

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm not pushing the boulder of life.

• 36:14Phoebe Judge?

  You're right.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  But that is a compliment.

• 36:16Phoebe Judge?

  I think it is a compliment. I absolutely, I'm not, I do think it's a compliment. I need to stop pushing the boulder so much.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  You could push the boulder a little less. You must be really tired at this point.

• 36:27Phoebe Judge?

  I'm pretty strong.

• 36:31Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, should we talk about some things we've been enjoying lately?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there was one thing I wanted to tell you. I was watching The Diplomat.

• 36:38Phoebe Judge?

  I bet that's gonna be one of the things you're enjoying.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yes, it is. And someone said the phrase, "Please continue." And I was like, "Well, hearing it in the wild, hearing our show reference like that on The Diplomat."

• 36:53Speaker 01

  All right.

• 36:54Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, we have a new Instagram we should talk about.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Okay, yes. Have we put anything on it yet?

• 36:58Phoebe Judge?

  We're gonna start putting-

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Oh, we put the Flip and Triscuits up.

• 37:01Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, and I'm gonna put the picture-

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Phoebe, a lot of people are asking for merch that says Flip and Triscuits.

• 37:06Phoebe Judge?

  We can make it. Okay, great. I think it's good.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Can it have a triscuit drawing on it, or an embroidered triscuit?

• 37:12Phoebe Judge?

  No, I think it's like, I don't know. You can decide that.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  If there was a hat that had an embroidered triscuit, I would pay any amount of money.

• 37:19Phoebe Judge?

  I'm sure if you go on your Etsy friend, you could find. We're gonna start putting, there's some stuff up. We're gonna put the picture of what I did in the airports, the embarrassing picture. We're gonna put a lot of stuff up, and you can find the Instagram. We're still, of course, on Criminal, and Phoebe and Lauren have their Instagrams. But the new Instagram for "Please Continue" is "Please Continue Podcast."

• 37:41Speaker 01

  I'm a lot more interested in this Instagram account than my own, so I'm gonna have fun.

• 37:45Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, well, that's the thing, is that I always felt, you know, we put stuff up on the Criminal Instagram and our own, but this, you don't wanna put too, but this, I feel like it's fun. We can put just a ton of-

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I don't really ever know what to post on Instagram, but I just repost stories that I think are funny, like, did you see the one I posted?

• 38:04Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, of the McDonald's french fries.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  It looked like someone holding hands, but then the other hand was just french fries with ketchup as red fingernails. Did you like that?

• 38:14Phoebe Judge?

  You put up a lot of that weird stuff. Yeah, you always, I mean, you put up artsy stuff, I would say.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Just pleasure, just finding pleasures in daily life. I have one headline, which is, "Did you read about the cheese and bread and butter in Copenhagen?"

• 38:29Phoebe Judge?

  I did. I read it last night.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  I don't know how to pronounce it. We can ask Lena Silasen, "Bol med ost," B-M-O, and that translates to bun with cheese. Open-faced sort of sandwich, butter, bread, cheese. Copenhagen's top bakeries are in dead heat to make the best one around. It costs about $7. It's been around for a long time, but this new name, the new little acronym for it, has made it sort of viral. And so now tourists are making it a project to go around to all the best bakeries and compare the BMO at different places.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  This is the only thing I ever am interested in eating, ever.

• 39:07Phoebe Judge?

  Butter, bread.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Cheese.

• 39:09Phoebe Judge?

  Cheese. It's that simple.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Cheese crackers, butter, bread, butter crackers. Yeah, like, this is the ideal trinity for me. This is the holy trinity.

• 39:19Phoebe Judge?

  And in Copenhagen, this is all the trend. In Denmark?

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. And all the chefs are sort of like tweaking their bread, tweaking the butter, tweaking the salt in either one.

• 39:29Phoebe Judge?

  The best sandwich I've ever had in my life was in London when I was 17, and it was bread, salami, and butter. And I think about it all the time. So I'm totally into this trend of very simple bread, butter sandwiches.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  I just, I can't stop thinking about it. And BMO was apparently added to the dictionary, which I think is really charming. That was my only headline. I thought you really needed to know about that.

• 39:56Phoebe Judge?

  I was just trying to call in a ringer.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  What's that mean?

• 39:59Phoebe Judge?

  We have a native Dane on the staff here at Criminal Production-

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, really? She's available?

• 40:05Phoebe Judge?

  -who spends a lot of time in Copenhagen and just returned from Copenhagen. And I thought, what a thing, if we could get Lena Silasen, one of the producers here, on the horn, to tell us if this really is as big a deal as the New York Times is saying.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, get her, get her.

• 40:21Phoebe Judge?

  I'm trying to. I just wrote to her.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Here she is.

• 40:27Phoebe Judge?

  She has no idea why she's here.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 40:30Phoebe Judge?

  Lena Silasen, a native Dane, a woman who spends an awful lot of time in Copenhagen.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 40:38Phoebe Judge?

  Lena, you are a New York Times fact-check. We are discussing a recent article in the New York Times about a trend that is taking over Copenhagen. A food trend that is taking over Copenhagen.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  You want her to guess?

• 40:54Phoebe Judge?

  I wanted her to guess. We don't have to make her guess. Everyone is going nuts over very simple sandwich.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Three letters.

• 41:03Phoebe Judge?

  Three letters. Lauren, do you want to, let you pronounce, and then we're gonna get a real Danish speaker to pronounce these letters.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  My humble attempt was "Bol med ost."

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Right. I knew where this was going when you said three letters. The BMO.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, what do you think?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  I think that is true. Yes, everybody's all about the BMO. It's a little ridiculous that it has a name and, you know, even a nickname, because it's literally just bread and cheese.

• 41:38Phoebe Judge?

  And is it true that in Copenhagen, everywhere is now, this is the big deal?

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Yes, it's everywhere. Yes, it's true.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And you seem to think this is not real, not interesting.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  It's just a roll with cheese.

• 41:58Phoebe Judge?

  So this isn't like, Lauren read the article, I read it, this is the greatest thing anyone has ever had. This is just the epitome, the highest quality, three of the highest quality ingredients you can find, put together, makes this concoction that people are just losing their mind. And they're traveling all over the city to find the best, and there's competition.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I really like these constituent ingredients a lot. So it's doing, in my imagination, it's doing a lot for me.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Right. What is not to like is white bread, butter, and cheese.

• 42:29Phoebe Judge?

  So you were recently in Copenhagen.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:32Phoebe Judge?

  In your friend group, are you sitting around with pals and thinking, "Let's just go get a BMO tonight"?

• 42:38Speaker 02

  It's more of a breakfast thing, or morning thing.

• 42:41Phoebe Judge?

  You have it in the morning?

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yep. So it'll often be like, you know, cafes, coffee shops will have the, they'll have it all day, but it's the sort of thing you might get for breakfast, or like a light lunch. It's not really a dinner.

• 42:54Phoebe Judge?

  Sometimes I read that the New York Times, there's 36 hours in XYZ. It's a place I know very well. And I think, why did they say that? That's not true. It's not that big of a deal. Is it the same, are you saying that it is that big of a deal right now in Copenhagen, or?

• 43:09Speaker 02

  It is that big of a deal because it is everywhere, but again, it is just simple stuff that people have always been eating, but now it has a nickname. But it is a big deal. It's everywhere. Like, yeah, you can't, it'd be hard to find a coffee shop that doesn't have a BMO.

• 43:30Phoebe Judge?

  And when you're in Denmark, are you calling it a BMO? What would you say? Is it, you say BMO, or are you saying some Danish letters?

• 43:41Speaker 02

  No, they say BMO. People who order it would say BMO, yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Do you think the New York Times is obsessed with Copenhagen?

• 43:50Phoebe Judge?

  A little.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe a little.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  I mean, I think I might be a little also. So I read every single article, so maybe it's a selection bias a little bit.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  I just got a text from a friend yesterday, who's there, an American friend, who's there for the first time. And he said one thing he really appreciates about Copenhagen is that any establishment he walks into is okay with him using the bathroom, even though he's not buying anything.

• 44:18Phoebe Judge?

  Do you find that is true?

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Probably, yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  That's very sane.

• 44:21Phoebe Judge?

  Is that, is this kind of a Danish personality, that you wouldn't stop someone from?

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess. Yeah, maybe.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  That was one of the best things for me about leaving New York City, was I left the sort of drama of finding a restroom in the past. It's pretty easy in North Carolina to go into most places.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  No one cares.

• 44:42Phoebe Judge?

  You can always go into the bathroom at Grand Central.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Well, if you find one of these in New York, Lena, please let us know.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  A BMO?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:51Phoebe Judge?

  It'll be here next. There's no way that a B, it'll, it's gonna make its way. The BMO is gonna make its way to New York City in the next three months.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  There are a few Danish bakeries in New York. I wonder if they have it. I will investigate.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Lauren? I would, yeah, that would be high on my list.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:06Phoebe Judge?

  Well, Lena, next time the New York Times publishes something about Copenhagen, which will be in a trend in Copenhagen in about three weeks, we'll get you on the horn again and ask your opinion.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Sounds great.

• 45:18Phoebe Judge?

  Thank you, Lena.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Well, there you have it.

• 45:21Phoebe Judge?

  Isn't that nice, just be able to unspeed dial?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  You know what's funny?

• 45:25Phoebe Judge?

  Straight to the source.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Let me find this part of the article. Okay, it said, the New York Times article says, "The BMO has become a calling card for Copenhagen's best bakers. Batch after batch, they experiment with the bread, the cheese, and yes, even the butter, as they strive to stand out in a city obsessed with understated excellence." I thought that was a really big compliment. And then Lena comes in, again, with her understated personality.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Right?

• 45:50Phoebe Judge?

  Absolutely, yes, exactly right.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  It says, "The BMO is hard to mess up, but almost impossible to perfect." That's how I feel about a margarita pizza.

• 45:59Phoebe Judge?

  Well, Phoebe.

• 46:01Phoebe Judge?

  Yes.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  That was my one headline. Would you like to tell me three things you've been enjoying lately?

• 46:06Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, Lauren, I would. Uh, the first thing I've been enjoying lately is the Netflix series East of Eden.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Oh, Phoebe.

• 46:13Phoebe Judge?

  What? Well, you want me to apologize? I mean, it's getting a lot of attention.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I made it like 22 minutes into the first episode last night and I was like, what is this?

• 46:23Phoebe Judge?

  Because it was too dark?

• 46:25Speaker 01

  It's just so, it's so melodramatic.

• 46:28Phoebe Judge?

  It is melodramatic. And as the episodes go on, it gets more melodramatic in a way that I didn't enjoy. But I love the book very much. And I thought-

• 46:39Speaker 01

  How, how, like, as I was watching the show, I was like, is this what the book is like? Is this what the book is like?

• 46:44Phoebe Judge?

  Um, no, the book is better. Uh, but if you, if you don't want to watch this show, okay, read the book. The book, I mean, I think the show is good. I like a six-part series situation. But I think that the, I mean, I think the series is good. I think the book is much better. It reminded me how much I liked the book and it reminds me how much I like John Steinbeck.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  It is brooding.

• 47:11Phoebe Judge?

  It is very brooding. If you're saying that 22 minutes in, I'm glad you didn't get to episode four. But that's the first thing I've been enjoying lately, East of Eden.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  The first thing I've been enjoying, as I said, was The Diplomat. Have you watched?

• 47:24Phoebe Judge?

  No, don't tell me anything because I am excited about watching.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Well, I crushed the new season in about three days.

• 47:29Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, I hate when you use that. It's like a frat boy.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Crushed it. And it ended on an incredible cliffhanger.

• 47:36Phoebe Judge?

  Okay. I'm gonna watch it.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Which is like a little frustrating.

• 47:39Phoebe Judge?

  Don't, don't, no, don't say anything else. Because I'm sure there's a lot of us who haven't watched it. Diplomat.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  I actually have a lot of questions to ask you about it. So if you could hurry up.

• 47:48Phoebe Judge?

  Is it full seasons out?

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's a Netflix drop.

• 47:51Phoebe Judge?

  Okay. Yes, I'm gonna watch The Diplomat. Uh, the second thing I've been enjoying lately is kind of interesting. As you know, I've talked before about my love of apple cider and lemon seltzer. Uh, proportions would be a, uh, three-fourths lemon seltzer, one-fourth, maybe a third. Third apple cider, good apple cider, two-thirds lemon seltzer. Fantastic drink. Um, I've had something the other day that I thought was pretty good. This is a Spindrift, which I don't like Spindrift because I don't think it's carbonated enough. But this is, Spindrift has a Fuji apple flavor that I thought was a pretty good stand-in

• 48:34Phoebe Judge?

  for your homemade apple cider with lemon seltzer. So that is the second thing I've been enjoying lately. Spindrift Fuji apple.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Well, Daniel in the Patreon Criminal General chat showed a really beautiful, okay, now, he says, "Not me influenced by Miss Phoebe Judge and running out to mix up some apple cider and polar lemon seltzer," and then posted a really nice pic. So, Phoebe, you're an influencer. Somebody else posted about the drink, too.

• 49:02Phoebe Judge?

  It's such a good drink. Will you try it, Lauren? It's really good.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Um, last night I drank some apple cider vinegar in some room temperature water.

• 49:10Phoebe Judge?

  That's different.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Uh, the second thing I've been enjoying lately, and I am nervous to say this one out loud, is a very small pumpkin on the dining room table. Do you have one?

• 49:22Phoebe Judge?

  My mother loved a very small white pumpkin.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 49:29Phoebe Judge?

  She loved, and I thought it was the oddest thing, that she always loved a really small white pumpkin. And every time I pass by a bin of them, I think, you should buy one of those, Phoebe, because you don't really like it. But she did, and you should have it. So, uh, no, I, well, I do have some gourds on the dining room table right now. So it's kind of a decorative decoration.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Well, I have one medium-sized pumpkin and then I, so I was like, you don't actually need to buy this small pumpkin also. I, it would cost a dollar ninety-nine at the fresh market. And I was like, don't do it. You don't need that, you don't need that. And then I did it, and every single time I see it, I feel happy.

• 50:06Phoebe Judge?

  Okay, so this is-

• 50:06Speaker 01

  I haven't done my, my secret pumpkin drop this year.

• 50:11Phoebe Judge?

  You don't have much time left.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Okay, maybe I'll do it with small, the small guys.

• 50:15Phoebe Judge?

  The third thing I've been enjoying lately, now, this isn't a Michelin-starred recipe, but this is a recipe for this time of year. If you want something, it's, I don't know what else to say. I would not expect myself to like this recipe as much as I've, I've made it twice in 10 days. It is something called lasagna soup.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  You've spoken to me about this so many times. I don't like the name.

• 50:44Phoebe Judge?

  I don't like the name either.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  The picture that you posted?

• 50:46Phoebe Judge?

  I don't like the picture. I don't like the way it looks. I don't like the name. It's fantastic. Lasagna soup, New York Times recipe. It's really, really, good is relative. It's very, it's very comforting and it's fant, it's just great. I'm so happy about it. My recommendation, it's gonna ask you for half a pound of Italian sausage and half a pound of hamburger. I just use hamburger, lean hamburger. The other thing is, uh, on top, you're supposed to put a ricotta Parmesan mixture. I find ricotta to be a little sweet for me, so you do not have to, I would say, put the ricotta on the side. You know, and people can put a little bit on the top. You could also just use Parmesan. I think it'd be just as good.

• 51:30Phoebe Judge?

  Um, lasagna soup, New York Times, total endorsement.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Are you a sweatpants person?

• 51:37Phoebe Judge?

  Nope.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Would you be open to trying some?

• 51:41Phoebe Judge?

  Uh, I have some Viori, I think they call them joggers. I don't think they're real sweatpants, that I sometimes put on over my exercise shorts if it's cold, if I'm bumming around before I go and exercise.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Have you had, have you been shown the ads for this thing called Mate?

• 52:00Phoebe Judge?

  No.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  It's like organic cotton exercise clothes.

• 52:04Phoebe Judge?

  Okay.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  So maybe like not made with chemicals. I bought some sweatpants. They were expensive. They're called organic fleece oversized sweatpants. So this will get you out of your dated tight clothes. They're really big, really big, really comfortable. I have been wearing them for days. I've never been a sweatpants person. I highly recommend them. They are not cheap.

• 52:28Phoebe Judge?

  Okay, I'd be happy if you wanted to send me a pair.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  What? Mate the label. Mate? I don't know what it's called. The website is Mate the Label, and they're called organic fleece oversized sweatpants.

• 52:39Phoebe Judge?

  Well, maybe I'll-

• 52:40Speaker 01

  They're gigantic.

• 52:41Phoebe Judge?

  Okay, well, I'm, I'm happy to try out anything. Lauren, I think that's all the time we have. Uh, thank you all very much for listening, and, um, we do hope we'll see you out on the road. Uh, there's so many cities, but Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, New York, DC, and Raleigh are the first leg. And Lauren will be there, maybe New York, Raleigh, too. And, uh, I'd love to see you for this-

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Can we, before we go, can we play this voicemail?

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Hi, I just listened to the episode where you and Lauren go to the Costco. I love the Costco. I was only gonna call to say one thing about the Costco. I'm not really sure if you guys eat Canadian bacon. I only use Canadian bacon. But I, if I go to my local grocery store, it comes in a pack of eight, and it costs about $6. At Costco, I can buy a huge pack of like, I don't know, 25 or so, 50? And it's less than like 15 bucks.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Can you believe that? Anyways, it's a great deal. Love you guys. Bye.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  That's all. I just like how the lady says the Costco.

• 54:07Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, someone signed an email off to me yesterday, and I love it so much. And, um, as a pilot in training, as they say, uh, on my journey-

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Wings up.

• 54:19Phoebe Judge?

  No, well, it's almost like that. You know what you say signing off? You say, "Keep your airspeed up."

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Hmm. A writer named Diane Williams I like very much used to sign her emails all salutes. I like that.

• 54:33Phoebe Judge?

  All right, Lauren, I'm saluting you. Uh, thank you very much, everyone, for listening. You can find us at the, [email protected], 833-822-7850. I'm Phoebe.Judge at Instagram, and Lauren is Lauren Spore at Instagram. And also now, please continue podcasts. So we hope we'll hear from you, and maybe we'll see you on tour, and take care.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 54:52Phoebe Judge?

  Bye-bye.