Bart & Krista Halderson | The Deadly Cost of Discovering the Truth (Part 2)

By the Summer of 2021, Bart and Krista Halderson were living the quintessential Midwestern life. They owned a beautiful home in Windsor, Wisconsin, and a rustic family cabin up north in White Lake, where they loved spending time together. They were also preparing to cross the finish line of parenting. Their oldest son Mitchell was a successful tech professional, engaged and in the process of buying a house. Their youngest son Chandler was days away from moving to Florida to work for SpaceX. But on July 7th, 2021, the dream shattered. Chandler went to the police station to report his parents missing. Bart and Krista had gone up north to the family cabin for the Fourth of July weekend with an unknown couple. They never came back.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  So today, we are diving into part two of the Bart and Krista Halderson case. And we kind of left off in part one where Bart and Krista Halderson went to their cottage, apparently with some unknown friends. Their son reported them missing. And then, within just a few days of them being reported missing, things began unraveling, which ended up with Chandler sitting in a police interrogation room, being told, "Listen, we know more than you think we know. It's time to tell us the truth about what really happened." And Chandler lawyered up. So I kind of want to go back and talk about who Chandler was for a second, because from all reported areas, Chandler Halderson was an ordinary teenager

• 1:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  who sat squarely in the center of the bell curve in every measurable way. Utterly average, unremarkable, but zero red flags. During his time at DeForest Area High School, he maintained passing grades. He had no major disciplinary issues or suspensions, and his teachers viewed him as quiet, cooperative, and unforgettable. His peers saw him as someone who was a nice guy, unassuming. He avoided drama. So after graduating in 2016, Chandler continued living with his parents, Bart and Krista, and he began taking classes at Madison Area Technical College until the summer of 2019, when he began living in an apartment with a few roommates, one of which was his childhood friend, Alex Gravette.

• 1:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now Alex, who called Chandler Chaz, described Chandler as relaxed. He said they got along well, and they were quite close. They'd grown up together. They'd been in Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts together. They played soccer together. He said Chandler could be a playful guy who liked to pull pranks on people, and Chandler cared a lot about and put a good amount of focus into his appearance. Alex claimed that Chandler was an attractive guy who seemed to do well with the opposite sex, but he also struggled with being faithful to the women that he was with. So after describing Chandler in all of these seemingly positive or benign ways, Alex went on to tell the police, quote, "Alexander stated that he would also describe Chandler

• 2:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  as a pathological liar. He was described as cold-hearted and emotionally distanced. When asked why he would describe Chandler in that manner, he stated that he was dating multiple people at the same time and lying about it. Alexander stated that when he shared an apartment with Chandler, he was promiscuous. He stated that he had a lot of partners," end quote. So Alex is like, "Chandler's a great guy. We get along great." Also, he's a pathological liar. So it seemed that at any given time Chandler was juggling at least two girlfriends, and he was desperate to keep them from knowing about each other. Additionally, each girlfriend seemed to have a similar experience with Chandler.

• 3:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  One ex-girlfriend, let's call her Jane, dated Chandler during the summer of 2018 while he was attending classes at Madison Area Tech, and she was living in the dorms at the University of Wisconsin. Now, she claimed that Chandler told her that his parents were not happy about him going to the dorms to see her, and one time he spent the night with her. They fooled around, and she sent him home the next day with a hickey. Chandler later informed Jane that his mother Krista had been freaked out when she saw the hickey. She had called him a whore, and his parents had taken away his car keys and grounded him for the rest of the summer, which meant that he couldn't go and see Jane

• 3:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  in the dorms anymore. So in late 2018 or early 2019, Chandler and Jane had made plans for him to drive up and see her, and right before he left, Chandler called and told Jane that his mother Krista was having a stroke, so he couldn't leave because he was concerned about her. Later, Chandler told Jane that he believed his mother had faked the stroke so that he wouldn't leave the house. And this is interesting, because what I've discovered is Chandler kind of uses his parents as scapegoats. So he's not grounded from going and seeing Jane at the dorms. He is seeing another girl at this time, and he can't go and see Jane at the dorms. So he makes up a story about how his parents are so controlling

• 4:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  and horrible, and his mother's calling him a whore because he has a hickey and taking away his car keys. So that's why he can't see Jane. It's not because he's with another girl at that time.

• 4:39Derrick Levasseur?

  But it is a pattern to look at here, right? Because he uses his parents as a scapegoat. And we kind of saw that last episode, or at least the start of it, with the interrogation. I felt like there were just subtle hints at his father being a bad guy.

• 4:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly.

• 4:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Right? Now, I had said that that was probably more toward the angle of, "Oh, this is my Plan B. In case my main plan here doesn't work." But it just seems like a pattern where this idiot tried to paint a picture of his parents and make them the villains, when in reality, it was him.

• 5:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And it depends on who he's making the villain. It doesn't really matter to him, right?

• 5:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. As long as it's, no accountability is the number one thing to take from this.

• 5:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So Jane told the police that she didn't believe Chandler had any issues with his father Bart, but she felt that Chandler may have resented his father because Bart didn't step in for Chandler whenever Krista would become overbearing or overcontrolling. Jane said that she was led to believe that Krista wore the pants in the relationship, and Chandler might have been angry because Bart never really did anything to help him with his mother. Now, another ex, let's call her Mary, she said that she was dating Chandler in 2018 and 2019, and while they were together, Chandler was a manipulative and pathological liar from the start, who convinced her that his mother Krista was a narcissist and a horrible mother, even though that was not Mary's experience with Krista.

• 6:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mary said that Krista always seemed happy to see her and would even bring her gifts during the holidays. Now, when Mary and Chandler broke up, Chandler happened to see a picture of Mary's best friend, Catherine Milander, on her phone, and he asked Mary to introduce him to Kat, at which point Chandler and Kat began secretly dating. Now, Mary attempted to warn her best friend Kat about Chandler being a manipulative and pathological liar, and it ended up destroying their friendship because Kat stopped talking to Mary. Now, here's Kat, Chandler's girlfriend, in 2021, who, she's being driven to the police station for an interview on July 8, 2021, and she's talking about her ex-friend,

• 6:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  who she said was a problem, because, you know, Chandler was a great guy.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Where did you guys meet? Um, long story. We tell people through, uh, school. But, um, long story short, one of my close friends used to be his ex.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  She's not a good person, not gonna lie, but yeah, she was very manipulative. And like, whenever he would try to break up with her because he wasn't happy, she would threaten to take her own life.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, we all thought he was this awful, horrible person. And then, like, I finally met him in Princeton, and I was like, "Oh, we both really like Star Wars." Yeah. We, I liked Star Wars action figures, I'm not gonna lie.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  But yeah, his entire family loves Star Wars so much. His mom loves to talk about, like, how she went with her mom when she was like a kid to see it in like theaters.

• 7:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  So it seems like Chandler isn't just using his parents or villainizing his parents to just affect other people's opinions of others. He's also telling Kat that her friend Mary is a bad person and manipulative, and kind of using those things to drive a wedge between Kat and Mary, because he obviously doesn't want Kat and Mary talking about him, which is why he and Kat dated secretly for a while until everyone found out.

• 8:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Don't want anybody comparing notes.

• 8:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, exactly. He doesn't want anybody comparing notes. He doesn't want anybody coming in and saying, you know, "This is what Chandler said to me. Here's all the proof." So he's going to, before Mary even goes to Kat, Chandler's gonna tell Kat, like, "Oh, Mary's terrible when I was in a relationship with her." So by the time Mary talks to Kat, Kat's already been poisoned against her friend. Then, we have another ex-girlfriend, Dakota, who was with Chandler for approximately a year, starting in fall of 2019. Dakota described Chandler as a constant liar, stating that she could never believe anything he told her. She said that one time Chandler had told her that his father Bart would hit and beat himself and his brother when they were little, but from what she saw, the relationship between Chandler and Bart was

• 9:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  normal and calm. They weren't super close, but they weren't super distant either, and she'd seen Bart pick Chandler up from his apartment once or twice to take him to lunch. Now Chandler's relationship, Dakota said, with his mother Krista was much closer. Krista would talk to Chandler every day and send him messages often, but Chandler would tell her that his mother was overbearing. Dakota also mentioned that Chandler was weird with emotions. He never cried in front of her, and he never seemed sad, but he also never seemed happy, and he rarely smiled. In fact, Dakota mentioned to the police how she noticed that Chandler really didn't know how to smile. Like, he would smile, and she'd be like, "What are you doing with your face? What is that thing that you're doing?" And he'd be like, "I'm smiling." And she'd be

• 9:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  like, "No." And he told her, he was rarely happy, so he didn't really know how to smile. Like, he had a hard time smiling.

• 10:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Talk about, talk about foreshadowing.

• 10:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right? Like, he's like, "Well, I don't actually know how to do that thing that just normal humans know how to do since they're babies."

• 10:13Derrick Levasseur?

  His interrogation footage is fascinating, when you're really now understanding allegedly what he's capable of, you know, at this point in the story allegedly, to kind of break down his behavioral patterns. I always find that interesting to see, I guess what I'm trying to say, like, the lack of emotion, right? It's pretty, pretty blank stare as he's going through the motions and discussing his parents' whereabouts, and, you know, knowing that he knows where they are. It's interesting to watch him respond to the questioning and... The lack of anything you see behind his eyes, even though the video is a little dark and kind of on a profile angle, it's still, there's still a lot to learn there.

• 10:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and I think he used like, oh, I had this concussion. So maybe that's why I'm kind of flat. And that's why I kind of have weird, you know, reactions to things that maybe don't seem normal to you humans.

• 11:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  But that's, that's not the case at all. So Dakota ended things with Chandler in September of 2020, when she found out that he was also having a relationship with Catherine Melander, who ironically, he actually started dating at around or exactly the same time he started dating Dakota in September of 2019, which also corresponded with the same time he moved out of his parents' house and then into an apartment with Alex Gravitt. So Alex said that while they were living together, Chandler often bragged about hooking up with different women behind Kat's back. And Kat would suspect something was going on, but when she would ask questions to Chandler about it, he would just deny it. Now, in August of 2020, Dakota saw that Chandler had been tagged

• 11:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  in a photo on Kat's Instagram page. And the audacity, but this was a photo not only with Chandler, not only with Kat, but with Dakota's dog. So Chandler has Dakota's dog.

• 11:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Not the dog.

• 11:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  The betrayal, the ultimate betrayal. Chandler has his girlfriend Dakota's dog, goes to hang out with his other girlfriend Kat. They take a picture with Dakota's dog. Kat posts it on Instagram, tags Chandler. Okay, so now Dakota sees this. Obviously Dakota confronted Chandler and he said, no, you've got this wrong. Kat's just a friend, a lesbian friend. And Dakota didn't really buy it. She told Chandler, listen, I don't love photos of my dog with you and some other girl on some other girl's Instagram. I didn't give her permission to post my dog. And Chandler was like, don't worry about it. I know how to hack into Kat's Instagram and I can delete those photos remotely. Now, according to the police report, quote, "A short time later,

• 12:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  he presented a picture of a screenshot of Kat's Instagram page, showing he had removed the pictures of himself from her account. Dakota noticed the screenshot was actually photoshopped to remove the pictures of him and other photos moved around to give the appearance the photos had been removed from Kat's account, but they hadn't," end quote, which Dakota could obviously see just going on Instagram. So the lengths that Chandler will go to, to cover things up, like he's photoshopping a picture, a screenshot of Kat's Instagram, showing it to Dakota and being like, see, all fixed. And Dakota's like, uh, I'm just gonna go on Instagram real quick and see that that's absolutely not the case. And then on August 24th, 2020, Chandler texted a friend, quote,

• 13:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  "So I accidentally cheated on my girlfriend while I was really drunk and she wants me to call her tonight to have me end it with this girl and ask her how many times it happened, twice, while I was hammered. I actually didn't remember until she found out and my friend had to tell me. But unfortunately, the girl I did it with really likes me still and I know what she is going to ask. So she's gonna fuck it up by lying to her and all," end quote. So basically Chandler is saying, whether it's Dakota who wants him to call Kat or whether it's Kat who wants him to call Dakota. He's like, I only had, you know, hooked up with this girl two times, but the girl's not gonna say that. The girl's gonna say we've had some long, drawn out relationship, which was true, because he's having a relationship with both of these girls at the same time and they both think that he's their boyfriend

• 14:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  and that he's being exclusive with them. So Chandler asked his friend, hey, can you use a voice changer to sound like a girl so that me and my girlfriend can call you and then you can pretend to be the other girl? I don't know, once again.

• 14:29Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, A for effort.

• 14:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  I guess, Photoshop asking his friend to get a voice changer.

• 14:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  And his friend was like, dude, can you just like stop being a dick? Like, can you stop being a bad person? How about that? Let's try that out.

• 14:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and we're talking about a love triangle here, but I do think this is telling, when we think about the lengths he went to, to just cover this lie up, you have to imagine that if he was involved in a murder or a double homicide, what would he do in that situation? How far would he go to try to make it look like it was something it wasn't? So I do think the context here matters and it gives you a little bit of an indication as to the lengths Chandler will go to cover something up.

• 15:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, that's what I'm saying. He goes to great lengths. It's not just like come clean, take accountability. And, and you know, okay, one of the girls will break up with you. Maybe they'll both break up with you, but apparently you're young and you have no problem getting girlfriends. So there's more fish in the sea, you'll, you'll move on. It's not that. It's like, how can I figure out a way to keep this all going and keep my lies intact and keep the image of myself that I want other people to believe about me intact? Which sounds kind of like a narcissist, but maybe it's, it goes even deeper than that. So either way, whether it was Kat or Dakota, who he was trying to convince that his friend using a voice changer was the other girl? I don't know. Kat forgave Chandler, Dakota did not.

• 15:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  She broke up with him. And in the last week of September 2020, after their breakup, Chandler told Dakota that he'd gone to the doctor and he'd been diagnosed as a psychopath, saying, quote, "Makes sense now, doesn't it?" End quote. If that's actually the case. But for Alex Gravitt, his old roommate and his childhood friend, it wasn't just the cheating and lying that came to disturb him about Chandler. He told the police that in the summer of 2020, he was saving up to buy a car and he'd been keeping a large amount of cash in a tin box in his room. And then there was a party at the apartment, after which the cash disappeared. And Alex had mentioned to Chandler that he was going to bring the tin box to the police to have it fingerprinted. And the police report says, quote, "Alexander stated that he thought it was weird.

• 16:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler had disclosed that he believed his fingerprints might be on the tin box. He admitted to Alexander that he may have touched the tin box, but denied taking any money from it. Chandler also told him that he would give him the combination to his safe that was located in his bedroom and he could look around in his room to verify that he had not taken any of the money. Alexander stated that he thought it was really weird because Chandler had told him that if he looks inside the safe, don't judge me for what you find. I asked Alexander about this. He stated that he never looked inside the safe and he didn't know what the contents were. Alexander stated, looking back on it, he believes that Chandler was the one who had stolen the money from him," end quote. So I wish Alex had looked inside that safe, to be honest.

• 17:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, what the hell was in that safe?

• 17:25Derrick Levasseur?

  I would pay money to know, yeah.

• 17:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Alex also said that one night he and Chandler had been out drinking in downtown Madison when Chandler started talking about life. Quote, "He stated that he believed the idea of love was never getting tired of someone." Alexander stated, "That's when Chandler disclosed that he thought he might be a sociopath." Alexander stated that he was worried by this statement and tried approaching it at a later time when both of them were sober. He stated that Chandler refused to discuss this statement any further," end quote. So Chandler's telling his girlfriend, or ex-girlfriend, I've been diagnosed as a psychopath. He's telling his childhood friend and roommate, Alex, I'm worried I might be a sociopath. And there's clearly some sort of thing that's not right about Chandler because he doesn't even know how to smile.

• 18:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, the smile thing, I'm sure we'll get some people go, hey, listen, I was never, that's just, it's a combination of things here. We're not just saying.

• 18:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  A combination of things, exactly.

• 18:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Because you didn't, you don't smile a lot, you're, you're a killer. But you combine that with some of the other behaviors and it starts to paint a picture of a person that's maybe a little concerning, maybe something we should look into.

• 18:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  A combination. Not everybody's photogenic. Not everybody feels comfortable smiling in photos. But just in general life, to be like, I don't really know how to smile because I don't feel things, that's concerning.

• 18:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, something that we should make note of.

• 18:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  So during the time Chandler was living with Alex, he claimed he'd been hired by the Madison Police Department to perform high-risk search and rescue scuba diving missions. In fact, Chandler's girlfriend Catherine remembered when he worked this job and she said she remembered it because there had been whole days that he couldn't see her because he was either diving or on call.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Was it your understanding that Mr. Halderson knew how to scuba dive?

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  What did you know about his scuba diving?

• 19:10Speaker 04

  Well, I knew in high school he was a diver, but then he, he loved to swim. And from my understanding, he joined the Madison Police diving team for search and rescue missions. I know he'd gone a few times with, with them, to my knowledge, but I never went with him or dropped him off or saw anything.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  Did he ever tell you about any of his search and rescue missions?

• 19:38Speaker 04

  Yes, he told me a couple of times about getting caught in riptides. And one time he said that he saw a body while doing it, while, while scuba diving and that he was a little weirded out by that.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Did he ever bring home any mementos or anything he found while scuba diving?

• 19:58Speaker 04

  Yes, I know there was one time he brought home a large pink sex toy that he found. And then there was one time, I believe, he brought home like an old rusty looking knife.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Dakota Brown, D-A-K-O-T-A-H.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  How do you know Mr. Halderson?

• 20:19Speaker 05

  I was in a relationship with him for one year.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  What, if anything, do you know about Chandler's scuba diving career?

• 20:29Speaker 05

  I don't know anything other than he told me that he has gone diving, that he was certified, and that he had a job diving.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  And did he say what department he dived with?

• 20:44Speaker 05

  For the Madison Police Department.

• 20:46Speaker 06

  Paige Valenta, P A I G E, Valenta, V A L E N T A.

• 20:51Speaker 07

  And how are you employed?

• 20:52Speaker 06

  With the City of Madison Police Department.

• 20:54Speaker 07

  In what role?

• 20:55Speaker 06

  I'm the Assistant Chief of Operations.

• 20:57Speaker 07

  In the realm of ranks of police officers, you're near the very top.

• 21:03Speaker 06

  I report directly to the chief.

• 21:06Speaker 07

  I ask you a couple of questions in this case, which is why you're testifying, but does the Madison Police have a scuba diving rescue team?

• 21:12Speaker 06

  No.

• 21:13Speaker 07

  Has someone named Chandler Alderson ever been employed by the Madison Police, to your knowledge?

• 21:16Speaker 06

  No.

• 21:17Speaker 07

  No further questions.

• 21:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, another red flag here, right? It's just creating a lot of narratives that aren't true. And then, when you go back to the first witness where allegedly he had brought home mementos from his career, it makes you wonder where they came from. Now, I will say this, I don't think that's the case here with Chandler, but there are volunteer units that may not be recognized by police departments. There's multiple dive organizations that work in conjunction with law enforcement when law enforcement agencies do not have their own dive team. And it appears that's the case here. So is there any truth to what Chandler's saying? I don't believe so. But if there are people out there in your own life who are saying, "Yeah, I'm working with the police department as part of their dive team,"

• 22:01Derrick Levasseur?

  they may be embellishing slightly, trying to make themselves seem as if they're part of the department, but there are private organizations that work directly with law enforcement on certain investigations.

• 22:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, all these same people, and you heard from Dakota, who was the girl he was dating at the same time he was dating Kat, and she just seems like, I can't even believe I'm up here testifying about this.

• 22:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, you could tell, she's deer in the headlights.

• 22:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, she's like, I can't believe I ever affiliated with this person. I'm so sickened. They asked her, they asked Kat, they asked Alex, "Did you ever see dive a scuba diving equipment? Like, did you ever go with him anywhere?" They said, "Yeah, we went swimming with him certain places, but no, we never saw scuba diving equipment. We never saw him actually do it. There was never any indication that he did it." From what the police could tell, he never did any scuba diving missions and never even had scuba equipment. So, he's a weird person, right? And he's lying. And he's telling Kat, "Oh, I..."

• 22:55Derrick Levasseur?

  He's pathological, pathological at this point. We're getting there.

• 22:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, he's telling these people, especially Kat and Dakota, "Oh, I have to go on a scuba diving mission. I won't be available for a few days." Because he's with the other girl.

• 23:05Derrick Levasseur?

  He's with the other girl, yeah. But he's even telling it to his guy friends as well.

• 23:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, well, I think probably to...

• 23:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Deepen the narrative?

• 23:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  To support, yeah, that if Kat ever talked to Alex, it would be like, "Yeah, Chandler went scuba diving," you know? And he said that. So, he brought stuff back from his missions. He saw a dead body once, which is a weird story to make up. Even if you're making up this whole job, it's weird to be like, "I came home and saw a dead body." It kind of shows you where Chandler's head is at. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back.

• 23:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  This episode is brought to you by Talkiatry. And I think a lot of people have had that moment where they realize that what they're dealing with is more than just a rough patch.

• 23:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, sometimes anxiety, depression, ADHD, or other mental challenges can reach a point where you know you need more support, but figuring out where to start feels overwhelming.

• 23:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly, and therapy can be incredibly helpful, but therapy isn't always the full answer for everyone. Sometimes you need psychiatric care, someone who can evaluate what's going on, diagnose mental health conditions, and prescribe medication if that's what's right for you.

• 24:11Derrick Levasseur?

  And that's where Talkiatry comes in.

• 24:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, Talkiatry is a 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more.

• 24:25Derrick Levasseur?

  And that distinction matters. Talkiatry isn't a therapy-only platform. It's psychiatry, so you're seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate.

• 24:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which can be really important, because trying to find a psychiatrist can feel like a full-time job. You finally work up the energy to call, and then it's like, "We're not accepting new patients," or "The next appointment isn't for four months," or "We don't take your insurance."

• 24:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly, and when someone is already struggling, that process can feel impossible.

• 24:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly, Talkiatry makes it easier to see a licensed psychiatrist online in just a few days, and their 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers, so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying high out-of-network costs.

• 25:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and I also like that you stay with the same provider.

• 25:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because that consistency matters, of course. You're not starting over every visit, re-explaining your whole life, like previously on my nervous system. You can continue with the same provider, and your treatment can evolve with you over time.

• 25:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that makes it feel more personalized, not like you're just being passed around.

• 25:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  So you're going to meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, who's going to build a personalized treatment plan with you and support you with consistent, evidence-based care. And more than 300,000 patients have already found high-quality psychiatric care through Talkiatry.

• 25:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so if you've been thinking, "I know I need help, but I don't know what the next step is," Talkiatry can help make that next step clear.

• 25:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, so head to talkiatry.com/crimeweekly to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's talkiatry.com/crimeweekly, T A L K I A T R Y dot com slash crime weekly to get matched in minutes.

• 26:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we're back. So I'm not saying that Chandler Alderson isn't a psychopath, or he isn't a sociopath, who knows? There's definitely something going on with him. But he for sure is a compulsive liar, and the fact that he used...

• 26:18Derrick Levasseur?

  That's established.

• 26:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and he used these two terms, psychopath and sociopath, interchangeably when speaking to his friend Alex and his girlfriend Dakota. It lets me know that, yeah, he probably thinks there's something wrong with him, but he doesn't know exactly what it is, and he doesn't really care. He's not like, "Oh, no, what if I'm a sociopath?" It's more like, "I know there's something wrong with me, and I know other people pick up on it." So it's the perfect lie to use to, you know, excuse and explain my behavior that other people are picking up on. He lies to come up with some reason for why he's a horrible person that doesn't put him directly at fault. It's always something that's happening to him. Now, both psychopaths and sociopaths lack empathy, but if you ask me, Chandler falls more in the realm of being a psychopath.

• 27:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  But we'll get there as we find out more about him. Now, according to Chandler's devoted girlfriend, Catherine Melander, Chandler just expressed his emotions in a different way.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  I was at work today for only 30 minutes.

• 27:19Speaker 07

  Why only 30?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  I was crying.

• 27:22Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  I'm an emotional person.

• 27:26Speaker 07

  Because what are you crying about?

• 27:29Speaker 02

  My boyfriend's parents are missing. Like, I think it's more concerning if I wasn't concerned. I'm a very emotional person. Like, I cry enough for both of us, is like what I like to say.

• 27:39Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  Like, it's like, I hang out with the family often, you know?

• 27:49Speaker 02

  There's parents, they're important. Like, I hang out with them. We play Mario Kart. His mom makes the Toad sound every time she selects Toad. No, Yoshi, the Yoshi's sound. That's exactly how she does it.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Lose every time, but like...

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know. I just don't understand how you couldn't, like, be worried or emotional.

• 28:18Speaker 07

  I know. I mean, that's why we're here, we're worried.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 07

  We're worried. Because, how's Chandler been?

• 28:28Speaker 02

  My thing is that he's not really... He expresses it in a different way. He's not like the biggest emotional person, but like...

• 28:40Speaker 02

  I guess like, when I look at him, it's different when other people look at him. Like, I can tell it's really hard on him. And like, he just sits there and associates and like, haces and like...

• 28:55Speaker 02

  You know, just sits there, like, where are my parents? Like a shell. And like, when his brother was over, like...

• 29:02Speaker 07

  When was that?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  They left around like...

• 29:05Speaker 07

  Today?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, before they went to cabin. They left around like, 2:00ish. They were there like, 20 minutes at most, but like, he's following his big brother around. Like subtle things, like most people haven't noticed, but like, dating him for a while.

• 29:20Speaker 07

  So he was following his brother around the house today? Pacing, upset.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. In his own way, you know? Like, just showing his brother, like, hey, like, maybe, like, in their dressers, I didn't find anything, but like, do you know what this mail could mean? Pretty much. I stayed on the couch. I didn't want to, like,

• 29:42Speaker 02

  intrude in a way.

• 29:43Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Like, I've only been dating him for almost two years.

• 29:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Catherine's talking about when Mitchell came over before he and his fiancee drove to the cabin to check on their parents. And she's like, yeah, you know, Chandler doesn't seem like outwardly upset, but he was following his brother around the house like a little puppy. He wasn't following him around the house because he was worried about his parents. He was following him around the house so he could like, control the narrative.

• 30:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Control the environment.

• 30:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, in case he saw a thing out of place, or if he wanted to direct him somewhere else other than the area that could

• 30:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:16Derrick Levasseur?

  be something that would raise a question.

• 30:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or plant something in his head, like, remember when we saw the body cam footage? Mitchell's fiancee was like, well, your brother's been saying your mom's really sick and, you know, she's got like a bad illness. And so maybe they went to a doctor. I believe that was an idea Chandler planted in their heads before they even left for the cottage.

• 30:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he's definitely got to be careful with his brother because his brother would know the house as well as him. And if there were to be anything that that stood out, it would stand out to someone who lived there. And I mean, maybe in the fireplace area is something that wouldn't normally be there. The brother may ask questions, so he can kind of direct him through the house to say, yeah, I already checked that area or I already did these things because he knows the areas of concern. And I do think it's a bigger thing. It's been like you said, manipulation, trying to control the narrative, maybe programming something into someone's head so that when they see something, they think, oh, wait, that's what I already heard.

• 31:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler already told me about this.

• 31:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That actually lines up with what I've been told.

• 31:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Mitchell's going to defer to Chandler for a lot of things when it comes to their parents because Mitchell doesn't live at the house and Chandler does. So Chandler's technically the last person who who saw Bart and Krista. I also thought it was funny because Kat's like, I've only been dating him for only two years, which is like, that's, that's not a short time to be dating somebody. Now, according to Kat, Chandler seemed to have a really good relationship with his parents, but she had noted some methods of punishment from Bart and Krista that had been enacted on Chandler, at least according to Chandler.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  He's really concerned about his parents.

• 31:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Like,

• 31:54Speaker 02

  you know, every son's like, oh, my parents annoying me, but like, there's parents. Like, they do dinners all the time together. Like, every holiday, they're doing a dinner. Father's Day, Mother's Day, they're all together. Like, Easter, they don't really even celebrate Easter that much, but his parents make sure they have Easter baskets for everyone. Um, like.

• 32:19Speaker 07

  So he has a good relationship with mom and dad?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Like, he's introverted and like, doesn't want to hang out with his parents. He'd rather video game on his computer.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Um, when we play board games, he's like, more reserved, you know, like, not like shouting out jokes, but like, he, you know, has one liners in there. Sure. As they call them. He fishes in his backyard with his dad. That's why, one of the reasons why he bought the house, so they could fish in the backyard.

• 32:51Speaker 07

  It's good relationship, nothing, no problems that you know of between the three of them?

• 32:56Speaker 02

  I mean, he owed them money, but he paid them back. I told you that already. Um, and that's why I was a lot over during the weekend. But other than that,

• 33:07Speaker 02

  that's like the only time I've really seen a big problem with them, I guess. So what did Chandler, so Chandler said he, you said he called you Thursday to let you know, like, hey, my parents are going to the cabin. I'm going to be home alone with the dogs. I think he snapped me that and then like we FaceTimed later. He snapped you that? You know, like Snapchat? Yep. No, no, I get it. I just don't, I'm not a, I'm not a snapper. I don't know. So before you said, um, that the dogs, the

• 33:39Speaker 02

  the dogs are more comfortable with you than Mitch's Kate. fiancee, Caitlin, just because you're around more? Yeah, I'm like, I'm there almost all the time. Like, I hang out with him and his parents, like,

• 33:54Speaker 02

  like, I told you how like I wasn't a lot over for like two weeks pretty much, but like I was still there having root beer flows with them that one time. Like, I cooked them Mexican traditional food before because my mom's an immigrant. Like,

• 34:09Speaker 02

  I'm just there often. If I'm not there, he's hanging out with me and like, maybe we won't hang out like two, three days a week. It's very variant. It depends on like if we're doing stuff with our families, if we have other plans, but like, like I said, I played Mario Kart with his mom and dad.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Um,

• 34:30Speaker 02

  hang out with them sometimes, just have dinner with them.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  So what was the whole two week thing? Why weren't you allowed? The owing money thing? So did he, how did that come about? Why was that a big deal? Because I thought yesterday you said that he's owed for like rent and Christmas presents and stuff like that. So why was it? Those two weeks? Yeah. Because like he was working for American Family at the time. And like, they just, there was like problems with HR and how they weren't like paying him. And like, it was like, they sent it in the mail, sent it to like not his address. So he was like, please cancel that check. Then he like tried getting them to like deposit it. And then at that point, they owed him like a couple thousand dollars because they were so far behind. And then I guess the company that they send money through it was like, this doesn't seem legit. They thought it was a scam.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  And so his parents are like, you gotta give us that money because we know you have money.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  But, and so, yeah, then he paid them. And it was just those two weeks that are like, you have like stricts. Okay. Which is weird because like, his mom's like, don't be spending money because you owe us money, but they're not ever like really. He said it wasn't really his mom, it's more of his dad like on him, but his dad's also an accountant. So it's stingy. Okay. To be real with y'all. So for the two weeks, was that when he hurt his back when he fell? Yeah, it pretty much started like right after he fell. Because like,

• 36:03Speaker 02

  they can just say Kat can't come over. It was a part of like the recovery and like, hey, pay us back. Like, because he had to, he fell down stairs. He just had twice bruised his ribs, had to wear like a neck brace. They're obviously concerned and didn't want him doing a lot.

• 36:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So we have a couple of things to pull from that. First of all, Kat says that Chandler owed his parents money. So they told him that Kat couldn't come over for two weeks. Now, in fact, there's no evidence that Bart and Krista told Chandler this. So there was another reason that it seemed Chandler wanted to keep Kat away from his parents during those two weeks. And in that two week period, it's very important, we're going to talk about it in a minute because you heard her say, yeah, it seemed to correlate with like his injury that he had and also he owed money.

• 36:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Air quotes, air quotes, injury.

• 36:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And then secondly, Kat talks about how Chandler was having issues getting paid through his job, which at that time, he was working remotely for a company called American Family Insurance, allegedly. So I said that at some point Chandler stopped living with Alex, his roommate Alex in Madison. He moved back in with his parents in Windsor. Now, at that time Chandler wasn't working, but he told his parents that he was still a college student. Although he said a hundred percent of his classes were being held online due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Now Bart Halderson had a strict household rule for his adult children. They either had to be working full time or enrolled in school full time. And as long as they met one of those two conditions, they'd be allowed to live at home without paying rent.

• 37:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  And their meals and basic living expenses would be covered by their parents. So Chandler didn't really owe his parents rent either. It wasn't one of those things. Now, Chandler eventually, he's going to school, but his parents eventually are like, okay, you're going to school, but all your classes are remote. You should get a job too, you know? You can, you can do both. You're a 20 something year old man. You should be able to to juggle both of those things. So for the Haldersons, if Chandler was unable to be a full time student and also work, they would have to move out and they would have to figure out a way to support themselves. Now, remember Bart was an accountant and he was very careful with money. He was meticulous when handling the household finances.

• 38:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler was also on his parents' health insurance and on their car insurance and Bart and Krista had been giving Chandler money for tuition as well. So they wanted to make sure that their investment was paying off and he was doing everything he was supposed to be doing. Now, in June of 2021, Chandler was not only a full time student, but he was working for American Family Insurance. And according to his brother Mitchell, he and his parents were incredibly proud of Chandler for being able to juggle all of it, locking himself in his room with his computer all day long to complete his coursework and his job duties. Now, it's interesting because according to Chandler's brother, Chandler was doing remote work for the company, like answering questions, doing basic customer service or IT stuff with his computer. But Chandler told his girlfriend Kat that he was helping the company

• 39:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  plan for installing solar panels on buildings. In fact, he showed her a whiteboard with drawn up plans about how the solar panels could be a safety hazard due to the fact that they'd be pointing towards the highway and could cause a glare and blind drivers. So he was trying to work that problem out for the company. Now, you also heard Kat say that, you know, he had a good relationship with his parents. He'd hang out with them, but he really preferred to kind of be by himself gaming. Chandler had always been a gamer. He loved to play video games since he was a kid. But it seems after he graduated from high school, he fell into the gaming life hard. And he was deeply embedded in highly realistic tactical military combat simulators.

• 39:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  His favorite games were called Arma and Escape from Tarkov.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Growing up and moving into recently, what sorts of things did you and your brother Chandler do? Since we didn't live in the same house, we would

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Do things online like play video games and just talk that way.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  Okay. What sort of video games did you play?

• 40:09Speaker 04

  Wide array, but generally first-person shooter games.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  And did your brother have a favorite weapon or gun in these games?

• 40:19Speaker 04

  Usually those of Russian descent.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  Okay, like the SKS?

• 40:23Speaker 04

  That's correct.

• 40:24Speaker 06

  Now, in direct testimony, you indicated that your brother was very interested in Russian guns, particularly the SKS, correct?

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 40:36Speaker 06

  And that interest goes back several years at least, right?

• 40:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 40:41Speaker 06

  How many years do you think that goes back?

• 40:43Speaker 04

  I wouldn't be able to tell you that.

• 40:44Speaker 06

  A long time. Is that true? And in fact, when he would play, he'd always pick that weapon if possible, correct?

• 40:52Speaker 04

  Variety is something that's always nice, but yeah, that's definitely, it would definitely be an option. That would be one of his first picked, yes.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Gaming.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  He does this thing where like he screen shares his video game with me while I go to sleep. So I can go to sleep easier and he just like explains the game and talks it out and like just to help me fall asleep.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  What game? Tarkov.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Escape from Tarkov.

• 41:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that's a very popular game. I've never played.

• 41:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Really?

• 41:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'd never heard of it.

• 41:22Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah, I see a lot of streamers, even to right now, 2026. They play that heavily.

• 41:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, so I had never heard of it.

• 41:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's a big game.

• 41:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  I looked it up. It was his favorite from what I could tell. And I found out something interesting about it, actually. So Escape from Tarkov is known for its extreme realism, but it also has a reputation for fostering intense obsession among players. And it's led to behavior that the gaming community often jokingly and sometimes seriously refers to as Tarkov Stockholm Syndrome. So the core structure of Escape from Tarkov is uniquely designed to hook the human brain. And the game also demands an enormous amount of real-time dedication to keep up with the player base. It's a time demand that many people describe as being like having a second job.

• 42:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Chandler's life in the summer of 2021 was work, school, and playing video games. And that doesn't sound too off balance, you know? In fact, it sounds like the lives of many 20-somethings.

• 42:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 42:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  It wasn't as if Chandler was missing work, getting fired, or failing his classes. In fact, he'd been doing so well with his job at American Family Insurance that he announced to his family and girlfriend in early June that he'd been noticed by a much bigger company, SpaceX.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  You don't think he had anything to do with his mom and dad being unheard from? No. I just, no.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  All my friends I've talked to, they're like, no, not Chandler, no.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Like,

• 43:00Speaker 02

  that'd be crazy. Sorry, I sound very monotone right now, but like, just no.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  He, no.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  No? No. Not a mean bone in his body? Well,

• 43:17Speaker 02

  everyone has a mean bone.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  They even said Mother Teresa was a dick sometimes, like.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  But I just don't see him killing Mr. and Mrs. Halderson, like. He had SpaceX. Like, why would he jeopardize something he like would dream of, you know? Like, they're his parents. For Christmas, they got him and his brother matching toolsets, like, come on. He cooks dinner for them. They have rope your floats together. They play Mario Kart whenever his parents want to, like.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  And his brother Mitchell, you think? Mitchell? Yeah, he's.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  A leaf in the wind.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Even if he tried, they could just like push him over and he'd like break.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  No, Mitch out, no.

• 44:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Damn, shots fired at Mitchell.

• 44:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right?

• 44:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Mitchell's watching that interview going, damn.

• 44:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's there like, do you think Chandler could do this? She's like, no, he had SpaceX, he cooked for his family. They're like, what about Mitchell? She's like, Mitchell? Mitchell? They could just push him over if he tried.

• 44:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, leaf in the wind. Damn, that was rough. You know, and this is how it goes sometimes. Like, I believe what she is saying here, that she believes what she's saying. And I do want to talk about it more. Let's take a break and then we'll break down that video.

• 44:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile, and there are some things in life that should absolutely not be transparent.

• 44:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, like?

• 44:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  A swimsuit.

• 44:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, that's a strong start.

• 44:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Your search history?

• 44:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Absolutely not. I'm with you, yep.

• 44:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  A group chat, right?

• 44:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Lock it down, lock it down, especially our group chat.

• 44:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes. But when it comes to your wireless bill, transparency is everything, and that's what I like about Mint Mobile. There's no hidden gimmicks, no gotchas, just premium wireless without the bill showing up every month like a jump scare.

• 45:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, wireless bills really do have a way of starting at one number and somehow becoming another number entirely. It happens to everybody.

• 45:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you think you understand the plan, then the bill arrives, there's fees, taxes, I don't know, mystery charges, emotional damage, the whole thing.

• 45:24Derrick Levasseur?

  That emotional damage is not itemized, but it is there, trust me.

• 45:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  So right now with Mint Mobile, every single plan is just $15 a month, even the unlimited plan. And all plans come with high-speed data on the nation's largest 5G network, plus unlimited talk and text.

• 45:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and switching is super easy.

• 45:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, super easy. You can keep your current phone, you can keep your current number, and this is all important because, you know, some people have had their number forever. Nobody wants to send the new number, who's this text to their entire contact list.

• 45:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that that message always feels suspicious. Don't answer it, don't do it.

• 45:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, when you change your number, it actually does feel like you're starting a new life. But with Mint Mobile, you can bring your current phone and number, and you can choose a 3, 6, or 12-month plan and ditch overpriced wireless altogether.

• 46:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and this is all done online, which is nice.

• 46:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you want premium wireless for $15 a month with transparency, no hidden gimmicks and no gotchas, Mint Mobile is definitely worth checking out. So to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/crimeweekly. That's mintmobile.com/crimeweekly. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/crimeweekly. That's it, there's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy, includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage vary. See mintmobile.com.

• 46:57Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, so we're back. And yeah, I believe that she believes what she's saying. And on the surface, I see where she's coming from. It seems like from the outside looking in, close-knit family, like she said, making root beer floats together, playing video games, pretty normal stuff, but not unfortunately normal for everybody. Not everyone has that tight-knit of a family. And she did say something that I think is important moving forward, which is, why would he do that? He had SpaceX. Like, that was the dream. And you've kind of alluded to it throughout this series so far that maybe the things that people felt like he was most focused on, that he had to look forward to, well, if those things were nonexistent, would you still feel the same way is the question I would pose.

• 47:38Derrick Levasseur?

  If those things that you thought he had were a figment of his imagination, would you feel differently about the possibility that maybe he did have something to do with it? And then finally,

• 47:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or if you felt like he was capable of lying so extensively about those things and creating this like second fake life, would you believe that he wasn't capable of doing something else that you previously had thought was not possible for him?

• 48:04Derrick Levasseur?

  And I wish the investigators would have, you know, maybe driven in a little bit more there. Maybe they did later in this interview, this is only clips. But when she says, well, I mean, everyone's got a mean bone, and she starts to kind of go, you know, kind of divert the attention to Mother Teresa, I would have liked to see him say, oh, well, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean by that mean bone? Yeah, everyone does have a mean bone. What's the meanest that you've ever seen Chandler?

• 48:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I also want to mention, at the time that Kat was sitting down with the police for this interview, she did not know that Bart Halderson's remains had been located on her mother partner's property.

• 48:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, so the fact that she said they were killed, or that's interesting.

• 48:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, like, that's, yeah, so I.

• 48:42Derrick Levasseur?

  She didn't know they were dead at that point.

• 48:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, she apparently did not know that Krista and Bart were no longer alive.

• 48:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe there were rumors at that point where people were starting to believe that they were dead.

• 48:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or maybe Chandler was saying something like, I'm really worried, maybe they're no longer alive, kind of, kind of that thing. But according to everyone who knew him, Chandler began working remotely for SpaceX. But he was planning to move to Florida in mid-June, and then Kat was going to follow him to Florida at the end of August.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  How about Florida? So that's where SpaceX was, that's where he was supposed to go. What was the plan?

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Go down there? You too?

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Okay, so what did that mean? Because obviously your job here, so did you have a job lined up? I'm just gonna transfer to, I'm not trying to say FU, but like FU, Florida University, because they also have a pharmacy school down there. So I'm getting Facebook notification. Yeah. Okay, just gonna go down there. Did you guys have, like, everything lined up? Like, when were you supposed to?

• 49:56Speaker 02

  He was supposed to leave the Saturday of the fall. So it happened on Thursday, Friday, he's supposed to leave Saturday morning. And then I was gonna leave at the end or middle of August because I wanted to be here for my birthday. It's a big one, 2,000 yen.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Gonna get crunk. Okay, so did you guys have like a place that you were gonna? Like, did you have everything kind of figured out? Where were you gonna stay? Just like apartment building in Titusville. Okay, did he like already sign the lease and stuff? I think so. Say Titusville? Titusville, Florida. That where the school is? SpaceX. The school's in Orlando, but it's like an hour drive from Orlando and hour driving nothing. Excited, like.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  He wants to save up for a boat because he loves fishing. Want to get a year pass at Disney. Go to Universal. Is he being interviewed too, or is he done? I honestly, I'm with you, so I don't know. You have my attention. So there you go. I love attention. There you go.

• 51:08Derrick Levasseur?

  First off, I don't want to judge her too hard. She's young.

• 51:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know, it's that, it's that whole like, that generation, the way they talk and kind of like the way they.

• 51:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Not really reading the room, you know, I, I, but, but young. She's young, but you know what you're there for. At minimum, you have your boyfriend's parents who are missing. Would I be saying gonna get crunk at that point during an interview? Probably not. But I did want to point out for everybody who's watching on video, because I've talked about this type of interview multiple times and the settings that they occur in. That room that you're seeing on this video is specifically designed for victims of crime, family members, friends, who they don't believe have any involvement, and it's to reduce the stress and, and the residual effects that had being interrogated or interviewed by law enforcement can have. So it's a comfy couch.

• 51:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, there's a lot of stuffed animals in there.

• 51:58Derrick Levasseur?

  That's for younger kids as well. Yeah. So it's, it could be like a facility like a day one where the other investigators in the room, they're also sitting on a couch. They, I, I think it's intentional that they had a, a female officer present as well. All of these things are indicative of them not believing that she's directly involved. They're trying to make this as easy and as, as less, least stressful as possible on her. And so this type of room, when you hear me describe it in the future, because I don't recall an episode where I've seen it before on video, um, maybe once or twice over the past five years we've had it, but that is the type of room I'm describing.

• 52:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So I don't, I don't think that she was involved. Like, I do think initially they thought she could have been. Um, because as you'll come to find out, she was with him for a good portion of this weekend.

• 52:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 52:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  But.

• 52:45Derrick Levasseur?

  So it'd be understandable why they might think she at least knows something.

• 52:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  My issue with Kat is like you said, she knows why she's there. At the very least, his parents are missing to the point where there's police involvement where you know.

• 52:58Derrick Levasseur?

  This is a serious matter.

• 52:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it's a serious matter. You were at his house, the police were there, they picked Chandler up to bring him to the police station, they drove you to the police station. Something's going on. They might even consider him to be involved because they're asking you questions along that line. And she's like, yeah, I'm gonna get crunk. I love attention. I think it is that generation. I think it's a nervousness where that comes out. You're trying to act normal and be normal. At the very least also though, she is still blindly defending him. And I think that has to do with being brainwashed by him, with being lied to her by him so much, just like his, his parents were and everybody around him was. Where she doesn't even really know like what's the truth and what's not. And it seems like he's such a compulsive liar and he lies about everything.

• 53:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Where you get to the point as the victim of that where, yeah, we see women defend their abusers. He didn't mean to do that. He could never do that. I know who he is. He loves me. So you, you start to discount like their poor behavior or red flags because they turn into a victim with you. Everybody's out to get me and you know who I really am and you're the only one who knows who I really am. Everybody else misunderstands me kind of thing. So I think that's what's happening with Kat. Now, the, the job with SpaceX would sadly fall through. We're gonna get to that for now. But I want you to see the police are asking her, like, where are you gonna stay when you go to Titusville? Like, do you have a job lined up there? What's the plan? Like, is there an apartment? Has he signed a lease?

• 54:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Kat's like, yeah, it's all taken care of. She has no idea. She hasn't. That it's not. That, that there's been no plans made to move to Florida because Chandler never intended to move to Florida. He's painting her this picture. We're gonna go to Disney World, we're gonna go to Universal, we're gonna get a boat because I love to fish. We're gonna have this beautiful future faking life, gaslighting the shit out of her. Oh yeah, don't worry, the apartment's all handled. We'll get you signed up for college when we get there. You don't even have to worry about a job because I'm gonna be making so much money. I can take care of you until you get settled. None of that was true.

• 54:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And, and, and looking at this interview, I always try to look at him as if I were in the room, asking the questions. And at this point, you can go one of two ways. I would describe her behavior as flippant and you could look at it as, oh, she really is just clueless about what's going on. On the other hand, you could also be entertaining the possibility that she's overselling the fact that she doesn't know anything, right? Like this is just bad acting where she's trying to play it up like the crunk comment and you know, the, the hand gestures that this isn't just a generational thing and that she's trying to oversell the fact to you that she has no clue why she's there or what she's being questioned about when in reality, she knows exactly the truth. But yeah, I think you could go both ways with it.

• 55:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or maybe she feels like something's off, but she kind of ignored it and, and now she's being questioned like, do you know about the apartment? Do you know what you're gonna do? And she's kind of like, no, I don't actually.

• 55:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  And does that look weird? Does that seem weird, you know?

• 55:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, there's detectives, if they are detectives, are sitting across from her right now. I think, you know, during this interview, you're, you're trying to, to figure out who you're dealing with, develop a baseline, develop a profile. Is this someone who's trying to get one over on us or has one been getting over on her the entire relationship? So that's what you're trying to figure out.

• 56:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you can see she's, she's curious what's happening with Chandler, you know, or is he done?

• 56:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  What's going on? She's getting texts, she's getting Facebook notifications throughout that. She often picks up her phone and she's kind of scrolling through it. Her mom's texting her. And we will know from her mom's testimony, she kind of was like telling her daughter, like, yeah, something's not right with this Chandler guy. So it's not as if there's no external influences telling Kat something's off here, like, hey, actually, we're the ones who called the police because he was on our property. Like, there has to be a part of Kat in her brain where she's like, maybe it isn't what I've thought it was. Now, let's go to the summer of 2020, when Chandler and his father Bart were trying to get someone at Chandler's college

• 57:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  to send Chandler's transcripts and a copy of a certificate that showed Chandler had completed the school's solar energy program. Now, at that time, Chandler had already gone through the solar energy program and he was enrolled in an IT program. And he was just about a year away from graduating. So on August 5th, 2020, someone named Daniel Spieth sent Bart Halderson an email about setting up a Zoom meeting to settle all of this. Because they weren't getting Chandler's transcripts, which it shouldn't be that hard, right? So Daniel told Bart that he'd spoken to Chandler on the phone earlier that day and he knew that Chandler and his father wanted to meet with him, but unfortunately, he wouldn't be able to hold a meeting until Tuesday, August 11th.

• 57:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Daniel told Bart, you know, if there's any conflicts with that date, let me know as soon as possible so we can reschedule. Bart emailed back promptly within a few minutes. He told Daniel Spieth, no, there's no issue. This date will work for me. Send the details for the Zoom meeting to my work email. Now, on August 10th, Daniel Spieth emailed Bart again. He apologized profusely because one of his family members had been diagnosed with COVID and he would have to reschedule their meeting that was supposed to happen the next day. So Daniel ended the email telling Chandler, who was CC'd in, to call him the following day for more details. On August 26th, Daniel Spieth emailed Bart again, saying that Chandler had recently been informed that his counselor was not going to be able to make her meetings that day

• 58:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  and that Daniel would be conducting the meeting himself remotely instead. Daniel wrote, quote, "He also sent me a list of topics to have ready. I have full access to the servers, so I have the information. He gave me your contact info. Does 9:30 or 10:00 work for you to answer a call?" End quote. Another email from Daniel to Bart arrived minutes later saying, quote, "I have approved his renewable energy certificate. Is the address on file correct?" End quote. And then he gives Bart and Chandler's home address. Bart replied to the email saying that he could make either time work for a phone call. He just had to make sure he was finished by 11:15. Bart then wrote, quote, "I believe Chandler is in a meeting with a potential employer until 10:00 AM. Did he say it was okay to have the call without him?" End quote.

• 59:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Apparently Chandler was fine with Daniel and his father having the call without him because Bart, it appears, did receive a call from Daniel Spieth the following day. And whatever Daniel had said must have made Bart feel like everything was on track because he didn't contact Daniel again until September 9th, 2020. Bart asked Daniel for an update on Chandler's accounts. He said he needed to know the following items. Has this account been set up so that I can request transcripts? Has the national database been updated so that student aid can see that, you know, Chandler's registered as a full-time student? When is he going to be receiving his certificate for completing the solar energy program? Now, the reason that Bart was so involved in what was going on with Chandler

• 59:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  and Madison Area Technical College was because Bart was very to the penny when it came to money. And Chandler was on his car insurance. Now, it seemed that their car insurance company offered a 25% good student discount to young drivers. And this required that Chandler be enrolled full-time in high school or college, maintain good academic standing, usually a 3.0 GPA and higher. And to verify this, the insurance company would need to see a college transcript. By October 23rd, the issue with the transcript and certificate had still not been resolved. So Bart emailed Daniel again, asking for an update. On November 2nd, Chandler emailed Daniel Spieth, asking Daniel if he could send the transcripts to his home address

• 1:00:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  because there was a program with his insurance that would help him save money with a good GPA. On November 30th, Daniel Spieth emailed Chandler and said he believed he had gotten through to his federal loans. And he was also drafting a letter for his insurance company and Daniel wanted to know if a PDF would work for Chandler. Also, in August of 2020, Bart and Chandler were emailing with someone named Alyssa Brandt, another employee of Madison Area Technical College. On August 18th, 2020, Chandler emailed Alyssa, reminding her that they had spoken on the phone the previous day and asking if she had emailed his father Bart yet. Alyssa replied, she apologized because she'd had the incorrect email address for Bart.

• 1:01:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  She said she was waiting on two advisors to send times that they had open for meetings and she would send those times to Bart by the end of the day. On August 19th, Bart emailed Alyssa Brandt and said he had not received the dates from her when they could talk to someone about Chandler's account and student status. And this was causing financial aid and insurance issues, but also, quote, "Giving me other concerns," end quote. Bart told Alyssa that they'd been dealing with the same issue for countless months, and he then turned advanced for her prompt attention to the matter. Alyssa emailed Bart back and said that the college had a shortage of advisors at that time, and that August 26th was the soonest they could make time for Chandler. Bart replied back, telling Alyssa that he'd blocked off the 26th to his calendar, but

• 1:02:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  it was his desire to get this all taken care of sooner. And he said, both me and my wife have the day off the following Friday, at which point we can go into the college in person and settle everything then. Alyssa didn't respond. Then on August 25th, Bart emailed Alyssa again, and he said, hey, listen, we're supposed to have a meeting tomorrow, but I have no details about this meeting. If it's a virtual call, I need a Zoom link. If it's an in-person meeting, I need to know where the meeting is happening and who I'm meeting with. Now, it appears that on August 26th, Bart received a call from someone at Madison Area Technical College. And the next communication with Alyssa Brant didn't happen again until May 24th of 2021, when Chandler emailed her to say that he'd gotten the COVID vaccine and he was feeling

• 1:02:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  really sick from it, so he would need to reschedule his meeting with his advisor or his counselor, Aaron Hoover, that day at 10:00 a.m. Chandler asked for another day that following week to reschedule, and Alyssa emailed back, telling Chandler she was sorry he wasn't feeling well. She said, I didn't have a great reaction from the COVID vaccine either. And she told him that she was moving his appointment with Aaron Hoover to the following Monday at 10:00 a.m. She also said that they had an opening before that on Friday, and Chandler could take that slot if he wanted. Chandler wrote back and he was like, no, I can't take the Friday appointment. I've already missed two days of work because I'm sick, but I'll keep the Monday appointment. He then emailed again shortly after, and he was like, hey, actually, Alyssa, is there any way I can keep my appointment for that day, May 24th?

• 1:03:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or can I actually take the Friday appointment? I'll find a way to push through and feel better. Now, I have a strong hunch that when Bart Halderson found out Chandler had canceled a meeting that they'd been working for over a year to get, he laid into Chandler.

• 1:03:42Derrick Levasseur?

  There's no doubt. Why wouldn't he?

• 1:03:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, we're both parents.

• 1:03:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Derrick Levasseur?

  A year, Stephanie?

• 1:03:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, to get transcripts.

• 1:03:49Derrick Levasseur?

  And then you're gonna, yeah.

• 1:03:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  I had a vaccine. I'm not feeling good. I have to cancel my appointment.

• 1:03:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and as a father, I mean, that's your job. And as a mother as well, like, I mean, you're trying to allow your kids to grow as they become young adults and make their own decisions. But when they make a really stupid one, it is also your responsibility to hold them accountable. If that is what happened, if your assumption is correct, which by the way, I believe it is, well within his right to do that.

• 1:04:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, because he's like trying to cancel. He's trying to cancel, and she's pushing it out a week. And then he's like, actually, can I keep my meeting today? Or can I get, you know, another meeting like sooner than, than a week from now? Or, or he canceled the appointment and then he wrote back saying, oh, I need another appointment. So he could show his father like, oh, actually, I changed my mind. I was feeling better, or I decided I could soldier through. But by the time I said I wanted that appointment, they said it had already been filled because Alyssa wrote back and she was like, no, your time slot for today, it's already been filled. But you can come in on Friday at 1:00 p.m. And that happened to be May 28th. But then on May 28th, Alyssa Brant sent out an email that was addressed to students in general, not just Chandler.

• 1:04:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And this email informed the students that they were having a staff shortage. So there would likely be changes in the dates and times of their meeting. That same day, Chandler sent an email to Alyssa Brant, and he's like, hey, is there a problem with my meeting? Because I've been waiting for a long time and no one's here. And then Alyssa wrote back and she was like, yeah, we're having a shortage of counselors. Like, I sent an email out informing you, we're trying to find someone who's free to call you. You'll be getting a call shortly. Chandler also received an email from Aaron Hoover that day, who was apparently his like counselor and advisor at Madison Area Technical College. And this is the first email he's ever gotten from Aaron Hoover. And the email basically said, I'm a member of the Madison College's advisement team.

• 1:05:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  That day, we're short three advisors. I'm going to take meetings from absent coworkers on a first come, first served basis. But Aaron was like, hey, if you have a meeting with me that's 12:30 or after that day, you're now not going to be meeting with me until Tuesday morning. So remember Chandler had taken the 1:00 p.m. on Friday with Aaron, and now Aaron's emailing and saying, hey, if you have an appointment after 12:30, I can't meet you till Tuesday, which pushes out even further than that week. And now, instead of being a week after his initial appointment, it's a week and a day after his initial appointment. So now Chandler wrote back to Aaron Hoover, and he's like, listen, I need this meeting to happen today. I've been trying to get a meeting for a very long time because I need proof that I've

• 1:06:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  completed my degree and my solar energy program, and I could lose my job over this. Aaron wrote back and he was like, sorry, during these difficult times, we must follow policy. So Chandler and Aaron go back and forth a bit. Chandler's very upset. He was like, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this. I need someone in charge to call me within the next 30 minutes or else. I've been a very good student for over three years, and by God, I will be treated fairly. And then on June 1st, Chandler's urgency is suddenly gone, and he says he has to cancel the meeting that they had scheduled for that day due to a work conflict. And Chandler asked if Aaron Hoover could get him his transcripts, and Aaron said, sure, I can do that when they are available. Who should I send them to? And Chandler gave Aaron his father Bart's email address.

• 1:07:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  On June 1st, Chandler emailed Alyssa Brant and asked if there was any progress on the documents he requested. Alyssa replied and said, yeah, it's been a hectic day. I'm trying to gather all these documents that you need myself. I won't be able to access them until the key to the records room arrives. And I'll let you know when that happens. This is in 2021. This is the digital age. Are we supposed to believe that Chandler's transcripts and all the documents that he and his father need are locked away in some dusty records room that, that no one can access?

• 1:07:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I think it's important, it's an important distinction that you're making here, because some may say, oh, that, that makes sense, but it's 2021. Everything's digitized at that point. We're talking, this was right around COVID.

• 1:07:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially a recent, a recent transcript, right? Because you just graduated.

• 1:07:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Everything, but I mean, everything was digitized when we were in college. I mean, I don't recall.

• 1:07:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that was a long time ago.

• 1:08:01Derrick Levasseur?

  That was a long time ago. I don't, I don't recall getting hard copies in 2004, maybe a little bit more than I do now, but I remember our grades and our transcripts and our, whatever it was, it was all digitized. We would get it in the email like everybody else.

• 1:08:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, or a student portal.

• 1:08:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly, like a portal. Exactly, where you can go on and access it.

• 1:08:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  These people are like, what address should I send them to? Not email address, like, is this your correct home address? No. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Revolve. And you know when something pops up last minute, which is always because I forget things and I don't put them in my calendar. But so when everything pops up last minute and suddenly you need an outfit that says, I had this planned, I knew about this, I put this in my calendar, even though internally, no, you absolutely did not.

• 1:08:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so what you're saying is your outfit needs to lie on your behalf.

• 1:08:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  The outfit needs to be calm, confident, very convincing.

• 1:08:58Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a lot of pressure on your fabric.

• 1:09:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. It is, but Revolve can handle it. When your summer calendar is packed with spontaneous dinners, weekends away, weddings, trips, nights out, all the things where you suddenly realize leggings are not going to be the proper attire, Revolve is the ultimate destination for effortless style.

• 1:09:18Derrick Levasseur?

  And it's also good for last minute plans as well.

• 1:09:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, here's the thing, it is, because instead of spiraling through your closet and trying on seven outfits while creating a small emotional support pile on your floor that never gets picked up and hung back up, by the way.

• 1:09:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, also known as the outfit graveyard. I have one in my, in my house right now.

• 1:09:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Revolve makes it easy because the site is curated by Vibe. So whether you're looking for date night, vacation, wedding, or just an elevated evening look, it feels intentional instead of chaotic.

• 1:09:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly, which is nice because shopping can become its own investigation sometimes.

• 1:09:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, and I already do enough investigating. I don't need to be cross-examining a dress at midnight, like, do you work with the shoes I already own? Where were you on the night of the dinner reservation? Are you going to hold up for me through that, throughout the evening?

• 1:10:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Listen, valid questions.

• 1:10:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  They are, but Revolve makes it easier to find pieces that answer those questions, pieces that look elevated and expensive without looking like you tried too hard, the kind of pieces that make you feel instantly more pulled together.

• 1:10:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and Revolve's great because they have new arrivals daily. So if you go on there and you don't see anything you like, you gotta go back the next day because new stuff is always popping up.

• 1:10:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that's actually not great for me because I find myself going there every day. Not great for the wallet. But they also have inclusive sizing, fast shipping, which is very important when you're planning for a last minute thing, and easy returns. So even if you want to grab a few backup options or a backup option for the next time you forgot you had something coming up, it doesn't feel like a high stakes commitment.

• 1:10:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, a dress should not be a legal contract. Let's be honest.

• 1:10:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you have something coming up, big night out, wedding, summer trip, just one of those last minute plans where you need something that actually works, Revolve is where I would go and where I do go. So go to revolve.com/crimeweekly to shop our faves and use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 15% off your first order. Fast shipping, easy returns, it just makes everything easier. Once again, that's revolve.com/crimeweekly. You can shop our favorites and get 15% off your first order. Offer ends August 12th, so don't miss out.

• 1:11:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So three days after Alyssa Brant tells Chandler, I have to wait until I get the key to the record room. Chandler emails Alyssa again and he's like, hey, are there any time slots open with Aaron Hoover for the following week? And she's like, sure. Yeah, perfect. I can do that. Easy. How does Thursday at 11:30 work? And Chandler was like, perfect. Put me in there. So then on Thursday, June 10th, Aaron Hoover sent an email to the students telling them that he had to take the rest of the week off due to a family emergency. And if anyone had any questions, they should email or call Alyssa Brant. Because Chandler has bad luck. He happened to have an appointment scheduled with Aaron Hoover for that very day. So he did what Aaron told him to do. He emailed Alyssa Brant and he was like, hey, my advisor, Aaron, took off today and tomorrow, but I have a meeting scheduled.

• 1:12:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  So who should I meet with? And Alyssa was like, wait, you have a meeting scheduled? When? And Chandler was like, today at 11:30. Remember, you scheduled it for me. And Alyssa was like, oh, no, you misunderstood. I never gave you a date. I just said Thursday. But it's not this Thursday. You're actually scheduled for next Thursday, June 17th. And by the way, I strongly advise that you keep that meeting because there are 50 students on the waitlist. So that same day, Bart Halderson, he emailed Alyssa Brant and he popped off in the email. He tells her, quote, "This is unacceptable. We have been dealing with this issue for well over a year now. It has been costing us money the longer the delays have continued. I'm not sure of the professionalism of the advisors, but it seems like they will take off at the drop of a hat and it messes with the whole schedule.

• 1:12:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler and I have both rearranged our schedules to meet with an advisor today, and I expect you find a way to make that happen." End quote. So at this point, Bart clearly believes that Chandler has been making every effort to make a meeting and keep it. And it is the school, the college, that's messing up.

• 1:13:14Derrick Levasseur?

  If I was from the outside looking in, I would think the same thing.

• 1:13:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes. Now, at the same time, in early June of 2021, Bart and Chandler are also emailing with someone named Tom Selsnick, who was the Northeast Remote HR Manager for American Family Insurance. Remember Chandler works there. Apparently Chandler had been working there for several months, but he had yet to receive a paycheck. On June 11th, 2021, Bart emailed Chandler saying, quote, "Did you email HR to inquire about your paycheck? Unless there is something that you are not telling us, they have had ample time to pay you." End quote. That same day, Chandler emailed Tom Selsnick, asking for an explanation of why he hadn't been paid. And Tom Selsnick emailed back saying, quote, "Hi Chandler, I was given your case on Tuesday. However, I have contacted your payroll company

• 1:14:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  and have determined a few issues. One, you are registered as salary. However, you are making an hourly wage. Two, for two months, the payroll company saw your name and dues as a clerical error. Unfortunately, you have been making $25 an hour when your salary states that you should be making $61,000 annually. When I get in contact with payroll, I will show them exactly when you were switched and find out why there was a delay on your dues. Have a great rest of your Friday." End quote. Later that same day, Tom told Chandler he'd updated the log and changed his dues. He would let payroll know about the change and Chandler should keep an eye on his bank account. And if he didn't get paid by next Friday, June 18th, he should let Tom know. Now, if you see in the timeline here, we're mid-June of 2021,

• 1:14:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  which is getting pretty close to the date that Bart and Krista Halderson vanish.

• 1:14:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:14:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Then something happened on June 17th, something that would derail Chandler's attempts to get paid and get his transcripts, something that, according to Chandler, would derail his entire life and all the well-laid plans he had made, all the hard work he'd been putting into creating his future. He fell down the stairs and had to go to the emergency room.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  Do you know when he fell? Yes, June 17th, after, before 1:42, because that's the wrong time his picture was taken.

• 1:15:20Speaker 07

  He was just going down the stairs and fell?

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  He was on the phone with his boss who was telling him to hurry up to his computer. So he was running down the wooden stairs with socks.

• 1:15:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, classic.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  And so, there he is in all his glory.

• 1:15:36Speaker 07

  So I'm going to ask you a weird question with him falling. He probably was going on the computer, but any kind of bounce in the house?

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  His dad was downstairs at his computer. He was telling me about, like, hearing Chandler fall. He was like, that's on my computer. It didn't sound bad. And then like, I got up to like, check after a while and like, he was on the floor. And I was like, okay, Mr. Halderson. Sure. Yeah. No, Chandler's clumsy. It is not the first time he has fallen. He needs like a life alert with button things. Yeah. I've seen one of his many falls. Just the, he really likes his socks. Okay. Socks and long sleeves. Yeah. It's really, it's good to have a little.

• 1:16:23Derrick Levasseur?

  It's hard. It's hard, man. I'm trying. Listen, I get it. I get it. You know, she's a, she's a unique character.

• 1:16:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, because earlier they were like, oh, hey, it's July 4th. You showed us a picture of Chandler on July 4th at your, your mom's partner's house at like a pool party and he's wearing long sleeves. Like, why is he wearing long sleeves? It was like 98 degrees that day. And she's like, he always wears long sleeves, even when it's hot out. And so now they're like, oh, he falls. And she's like, he likes his socks, his socks and long sleeves. He's weird, but in a good way. And you heard, she's like, he fell down the stairs. This cracked me up when I was listening. She's like, his father was sitting on his computer and he heard something, but he said it didn't sound that bad. And then after a while, he got up and Chandler was just laying on the floor. Because you know Chandler faked this fall down the stairs and he laid there forever, wondering, like, who's going to come check on me? Because he had to have somebody find him.

• 1:17:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Someone to witness this. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes more sense now because when you told us about this, this particular fall in episode one, and you kind of alluded to the fact that it maybe wasn't what it appeared to be, I was wondering why. And now with this context, as far as the job.

• 1:17:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Job, the transcripts.

• 1:17:32Derrick Levasseur?

  The transcripts at school. And then also, and I don't want to like, I don't want to skate over this. There was a part in that email with Bart that you had said where he said, unless you're not telling us.

• 1:17:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless there's something you're not telling us.

• 1:17:45Derrick Levasseur?

  So Bart wasn't oblivious.

• 1:17:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  By mid-June of 2021, Bart's starting to be like, what the hell's going on here?

• 1:17:51Derrick Levasseur?

  More importantly, Chandler knows that Bart is starting to know what's going on here. So he's got to raise the ante because what he had been doing up to this point, just from his father's comments, he knows it's, it's coming to a head soon. And that although Bart is still trying to back him, something isn't adding up. And now he's even throwing out there, are you lying to us indirectly? Are you, what's, what's really going on here?

• 1:18:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Is this the whole story?

• 1:18:20Derrick Levasseur?

  And that, that statement, I've done it with my, with my daughters and I'm sure you have as well, where you know the answer to the question, but you're asking it anyways. And I feel like at this point, Bart is suspecting that Chandler's not being completely truthful with him. And I think Chandler knows that he knows. And here we are. Now we, now we have this, uh, this quote unquote, accident occurring at the, at the perfect time, which would give Chandler an excuse for everything that's going to transpire in his life after that point, which he already knows is going to happen.

• 1:18:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So I think what's happening is Bart feels something in his gut. He's a smart guy.

• 1:19:00Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt. Parent intuition.

• 1:19:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  But he doesn't want to believe it. He doesn't want to believe it, but something's screaming at him. But he still doesn't want to believe it. Like, he's yelling at Alyssa Brant. He's like, what's going on? Your college is so, so you have no professionalism. But then the whole thing with the paycheck is happening too. So it's like, we can't get his college transcripts. We can't get him paid. Is this kid the just most unlucky person? Like, is he just absolutely targeted by every single, you know, institution that he encounters? And then he falls down the stairs and it's like, oh my God, this kid, he's a victim. Like, poor Chandler. He's trying so hard to make everything work. And, you know, it just, it doesn't seem to be working out for him because of everyone else around him that's causing these issues. So according to Chandler, right, the fall had been pretty bad.

• 1:19:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Pretty bad. He had to wait for his dad to find him so that he could see, yeah, Chandler can't move, you know, even though Bart told, told Kat, like, I don't think, it didn't sound like he fell that hard, but you know, apparently he did. Chandler said he had an aneurysm, a severe spinal fracture. After the fall, he suffered from constant headaches, confusion, memory loss, and numbness in his legs, which led to medical restrictions that prevented him from being able to move around freely. And he couldn't drive either. So his mother, Krista, was very worried about Chandler after this, just like she'd been worried about his brother Mitchell, when he too had had a health scare earlier that month.

• 1:20:25Speaker 03

  In June of this last year, 2021, you had a significant health episode. Is that a fair statement?

• 1:20:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'd say so.

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  Okay. What occurred?

• 1:20:35Speaker 04

  I went to the doctor for a regular scheduled appointment since I hadn't gone during COVID and wanted to get blood work done. And I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  And in fact, you were hospitalized for a period of time.

• 1:20:46Speaker 04

  Yes, that is true.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  Was your mom or dad, did they seem concerned to you at all?

• 1:20:51Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  You kind of laughed there. Why'd you laugh?

• 1:20:55Speaker 04

  My mom was overly concerned.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  How did she express that?

• 1:20:59Speaker 04

  Not as much to me, trying to not show me that, but I had.

• 1:21:02Speaker 07

  Have heard later on that she called her best friend many times crying.

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  Okay. And in fact, during your illness, your brother gave you a gift. Is that fair to say?

• 1:21:13Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 1:21:13Speaker 03

  What did he give you?

• 1:21:15Speaker 07

  A unknown type of bullet with the words get well soon on it.

• 1:21:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Mitchell has, you know, he's diagnosed with type one diabetes. His brother gives him a gift, a bullet with the words get well soon written on it.

• 1:21:29Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a choice. It's a choice.

• 1:21:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  What the hell is that? When I heard that, I, cause it was in like some kind of unrelated testimony when I was initially listening to Mitchell's testimony before I understood the implication of what that unknown type of ammunition was, by the way, cause it's going to come back. What, what, what the hell is that? Like?

• 1:21:47Derrick Levasseur?

  If this was like a big gun family and they were around firearms all the time, hunters, whatever it was, it could be a way of making a tough situation a little bit lighter, having fun with it. But what we've been talking about with this particular family, it doesn't seem like they were gun nuts. And so this ammunition thing doesn't, doesn't play well. In fact, I almost interpreted as like, hey,

• 1:22:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  A threat.

• 1:22:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Yeah. Or even the other way. Like, hey, just put a bullet in your mouth. Like, just end it all.

• 1:22:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or just like,

• 1:22:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Cause it was one singular bullet, right?

• 1:22:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. One bullet. Get well soon.

• 1:22:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I would love to ask Chandler where he, what he thought about, what was the intention behind that one?

• 1:22:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  So to me, it's, it feels like a veiled threat. Kind of like, just so you know, I have real bullets. Like, I know we play gun games online together, but like, I have real bullets.

• 1:22:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Really? So, so you're thinking there's something more there? Like, hey, I'm, that's great that you have diabetes, but also be careful.

• 1:22:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Also, your diabetes, type one diabetes is not like a disease to mess around with, by the way. You could potentially die from it if you don't manage it correctly. If you don't take the proper medications, manage your blood sugar. So it's kind of like, hey, this is going to be hanging over your head. Like, it's not a, oh, you, you, you fell down the stairs and you are going to get well soon. You don't really get well soon from, it's, it's a lifelong thing you have to manage. I, I think that Chandler really resented his brother, Mitchell, because Mitchell was actually successful, did actually have a good job, had a healthy relationship, was buying a house, had moved out of his parents' house. He kind of felt like, I think Mitchell was the favored child. Like, oh, he actually went and did something with his life.

• 1:23:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Chandler, like, he can't even get paid from his job, you know?

• 1:23:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  While Mitchell's illness was real, as it turns out, Chandler's was not.

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  So on June 17th of 2021, did you in fact see a patient named Chandler Halderson?

• 1:23:42Speaker 07

  Yes, ma'am, I did. I believe it was around noon. That day I was working out at the emergency department at the, the UW hospital at the American Center, also known as TAC.

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  What symptoms did he present with?

• 1:23:56Speaker 07

  I believe he was complaining of some pain to his head and his right ribs after a reported fall down some stairs. At that time, my physician assistant went and evaluated the patient first. He came up with a treatment plan. We discussed it. I evaluated the patient afterwards and agreed on the plan and then got some imaging.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Okay. What imaging did you get?

• 1:24:20Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. We got a CT scan, a CAT scan of his head and his C spine, his cervical spine.

• 1:24:26Speaker 03

  And what, if anything, did that imaging reveal?

• 1:24:29Speaker 07

  Those images were reported as being negative without abnormality. The PA and I both did an abbreviated physical exam, looking for any signs of injury. We did discuss with the patient a potential X-ray of his ribs because he was having some right sided chest tenderness. At that time, the patient declined the additional imaging and I think at about that time, we closed the encounter. I believe for this case, the patient had some residual neck pain. So he was given a collar to go home with for support with instruction to follow up with his primary care physician and with the spine team that was on call.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  Is it unusual for you to hand out a neck brace or a neck collar with somebody who says, hey, my neck is hurting?

• 1:25:14Speaker 07

  No, ma'am. It is not unusual at all.

• 1:25:17Speaker 03

  At any point in time during your visit with Mr. Halderson, did you tell him he was going to experience paralysis?

• 1:25:25Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:25:27Speaker 03

  At any point during your time with Mr. Halderson, did you tell him that he had a brain bleed?

• 1:25:33Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:25:35Speaker 03

  At any point during your appointment with Mr. Halderson, did you at any point tell him that he had a brain aneurysm?

• 1:25:42Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:25:44Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him that he had nerve damage?

• 1:25:48Speaker 07

  I don't believe so. No, ma'am.

• 1:25:50Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him he had a spinal injury?

• 1:25:55Speaker 07

  No, I don't believe so.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  At any point, did you advise him that he should not fly in an airplane?

• 1:26:03Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:04Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him that he should not drive?

• 1:26:09Speaker 07

  I don't believe so. No.

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  At any point, did you ever say that he shouldn't drive long distances?

• 1:26:16Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him that he had a hematoma in his brain?

• 1:26:21Speaker 07

  No, ma'am. I did not.

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him that he would have an inability to use his legs in a normal manner?

• 1:26:29Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  At any point, did you tell him because of his mild concussion, that he was going to have to have a colostomy bag?

• 1:26:38Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  And just to be clear, that's a bag for poop.

• 1:26:41Speaker 07

  That's correct.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  At any point in time, did you have to drill a hole into his head?

• 1:26:48Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  At any point in time, did you tell him that he was going to have to have surgery where a hole would be drilled in his head?

• 1:26:55Speaker 07

  No, ma'am.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  No further questions.

• 1:26:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, the good news is Chandler, you're going to be okay, buddy.

• 1:27:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's going to be okay, but he's even telling the police, right? He's like, have you ever not been able to use your legs? It's like, did he not think they were going to follow up with the doctor?

• 1:27:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I, I, it's this delusional optimism this kid has. There were some people in our comments section talking about it and it's, I don't know if it's just stupidity or just a lack of self-awareness. I, I don't know how, as in this, and Chandler seems to be an intelligent person.

• 1:27:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Somewhat.

• 1:27:34Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know. I, I think it's just a web of lies where you get so deep that you just keep creating more, hoping that that's what gets you out of the rut you're in, when in reality, you're only making it worse. I, I don't think he thinks that everyone around him is that dumb. I just think he's, he's impulsive and he's just saying the first thing he can think of and there's really no thought that goes into it.

• 1:27:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  So he's thinking more in like short term. Like, how do I get out of this right now today?

• 1:27:58Derrick Levasseur?

  This immediate moment.

• 1:27:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Right? Cause for whatever we want to say about Chandler, he, he's an intelligent person, right? Like, he's not some dumb.

• 1:28:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Derrick Levasseur?

  But he's not a career criminal and, and there is a distinction there, right? Like, he's, as far as we know, never committed a crime like this before. And so when you see that camera footage that we were laughing about last episode, that is an inexperience, right? That is someone who doesn't have a background in this type of behavior and didn't know what they should do prior to committing the act. It doesn't mean they're dumb, but yeah, I think it's an impulsive kind of in the moment situation where he just wants to get out of that room.

• 1:28:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Derrick Levasseur?

  And he's saying whatever he needs to say.

• 1:28:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Very childlike. Like, they think,

• 1:28:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 1:28:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're not going to follow up, or at least like, I can get out of the discomfort of this moment. I can buy myself another day or two.

• 1:28:51Derrick Levasseur?

  I was literally just going to say, buy time. Just trying to buy time until they can come up with a better excuse for everything that's going on.

• 1:28:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  But as you're doing that, you're rattling that ball of yarn tighter around yourself.

• 1:29:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And also just creating a lack of credibility for anybody who is having a conversation with you.

• 1:29:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  But once again, it feels like the people around him want to believe him, right? So these people aren't consistently like Chandler, you're a liar. They are believing him. They're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

• 1:29:22Derrick Levasseur?

  You're talking about the family.

• 1:29:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  The family, his girlfriend, everybody. Yeah.

• 1:29:25Derrick Levasseur?

  As far as the interviews and interrogations, I think it's,

• 1:29:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:28Derrick Levasseur?

  They don't believe anything he's saying.

• 1:29:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't think they believe anything he was saying. No. All right. We're going to take our last break. We'll be right back.

• 1:29:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we're back. So obviously because of this injury, this fake injury, of course Chandler could not make his meeting with the Madison Area Technical College Counselor Aaron Hoover on June 17th. So he had to email Alyssa Brandt and tell her that he was on his way to the hospital and he knew there was a waiting list, but he needed to reschedule as soon as possible. Because remember Alyssa told him, like, I highly suggest you keep that meeting because there's 50 students. So now Chandler has a reason of why he can't get a meeting again very soon because 50 students, it's going to be weeks, maybe months before he can schedule another meeting. So on June 17th Chandler also emailed Tom Selsnick from American Family Insurance to let him know that he needed his paycheck as soon as possible

• 1:30:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  because he recently had to go to the ER and he was going to need that money for medical expenses. Now, I don't know if you've put it all together yet, but Tom Selsnick never worked for American Family Insurance because he isn't a real person. And Daniel Spea, Alyssa Brandt, and Aaron Hoffman never worked for Madison Area Technical College because they aren't real people. The email address, [email protected] was created on August 5th, 2020, and the same day the first email was sent from that account. And this was an email sent to Bart Halderson, an email address that was created using the IP address of the Halderson home with Chandler Halderson's date of birth and Chandler Halderson's cell

• 1:31:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  number as the recovery number. So when we say like, oh, he seems like a smart person, I don't think he really was.

• 1:31:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe book smart, maybe book smart.

• 1:31:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. Maybe, we'll see. The same went for the rest of the email addresses. Alyssa Brandt, Daniel Spea, Aaron Hoover, created the same day that the first emails went out, created using the IP address of the Halderson home, and they never interacted with anyone other than Chandler and Bart Halderson. Chandler was Daniel Spea, Chandler was Alyssa Brandt, Chandler was Aaron Hoffman, Chandler was Tom Selsnick. And for some reason, he was putting all of this elaborate work into convincing his father that all of these people did exist and that they were working behind the scenes to get Bart's issues with the transcripts and the payroll and everything addressed. As it turns out, Tom Selsnick was not the only person who didn't work for American Family Insurance.

• 1:31:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler Halderson had never worked there. He had never applied for a job there. And there was no evidence that he had ever communicated with anyone from SpaceX, or been offered a job there, or held any employment status there.

• 1:32:13Derrick Levasseur?

  And you know, this sounds crazy, but at the same time, it's not hard to believe. Why? Well, you've set it up for us. You described a situation earlier involving multiple relationships where instead of just telling the truth, Chandler was going to great lengths to hide the truth, including asking his friend to use a voice changer just to keep this narrative, this false narrative going. So if he was willing to do that, when the stakes, let's be honest, they weren't that high. If one of them finds out, or both of them find out, you're single, you move on. So to think that he would do all of this when this is a lot more serious, not a, not a stretch, not a stretch. He's not, still not good at it, but he's trying.

• 1:32:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I mean, none of these emails or these email addresses were from legitimate things. So right, you normally see a school email address like Madison County Technical College.edu. These were Gmails, okay? So even though Bart Halderson is a smart person and an intelligent person, even though he probably saw the email addresses these were coming from, he still gave Chandler the benefit of the doubt.

• 1:33:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm glad you brought that up because that was the other thing I wanted to mention. I don't know how far Bart had gotten into his own investigation, how much he had kind of put together already, because a lot of what you're going over is the tangible evidence that we have, i.e. emails. But I do wonder about the conversations that were happening in person that Bart and Krista are no longer here to talk about because they're dead. I would imagine that there were in-person conversations that happened between Chandler and Bart where he may have questioned the email, right? He may have said, this is a weird, this is a weird web address that it's coming from. We don't know.

• 1:33:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Chandler was probably like, it's because of COVID, man.

• 1:33:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. Well, I'm just, there might be even more to this story than just the passive comments, like unless you're not telling us some, you know, some, unless you're not being honest with us, there might have been more in person. They lived in the same house where they were having conversations. Maybe even this is what led to what happened. Maybe that was the exact conversation that was happening in that moment. We don't know. But it does start to paint a picture of motive, right? That big word.

• 1:34:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  We kind of do know what conversations led up to what happened because you have to look at it and you have to say, okay, if Chandler Halderson isn't locking himself in his room for 10 hours a day, working his job, well, then he must have been spending a lot of extra time focusing on his classes at Madison Area Technical College. And then we find out that on June 29th, 2021, Bart Halderson made a call that lasted for 19 minutes and 46 seconds. He then sent a text message to his son Chandler that said simply, quote, "I spoke to Omar Job," end quote. Now here is a portion of Bart Halderson's

• 1:35:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  call with Omar Job, who happened to be the enrollment coordinator at Madison Area Technical College.

• 1:35:12Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm trying to get an appointment scheduled to meet with somebody to mainly just get a copy of the transcript and also a printed copy of a certificate that was earned and, and you know, other degree verification. How do, how do I get that done? Okay, for the degree, you have to download the duplicate diploma form and send it in or the, or the check or money or the four dollars for the diploma to be mailed back to you. For the transcript, you have to go online and request it.

• 1:35:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, I've tried to request them online and we never got them. And I've spent I don't know how many times doing that and at eight bucks a piece. So not willing to do that again. Well, why is that letting you request your transcript? What is it? It's not my system, it's your system. So don't ask me questions like that. Okay, but I need to establish the problem first before I can know how to like walk you through to get it. Are you by a computer? So I can walk you through on how to get it? I'm going through the process before I worked with, you know, I had, I'd tried to work with Daniel Speight to see if he can get through the information. I don't believe,

• 1:36:40Speaker 06

  I don't know if he's with you guys anymore, but it just seems like the ball keeps getting dropped. Okay. I mean, that's, it's pretty easy to request a transcript. That's what I thought too, and uh, You just get to the, It just hasn't come through. Okay, what's your first name? Chandler, C-H-A-N-D-L-E-R. Last name is H-A-L-D as in David, E-R-S-O-N. Okay, so it looks like you owe a balance. You owe a balance of 2039. So that's what is, that's why you can't request it. Yeah. Can I schedule a time to actually come in there and pay all that and resolve everything at one time?

• 1:37:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, the payment center is open. Yes, you can come in. How long, can I do an unofficial transcript? If you've earned a certificate, say in that solar program? You said, Where does that get requested to? If you earned a certificate? Yeah. I don't, I don't see that you earned a certificate. You were taking IT classes, right? I don't see that you were in the program. Well, you said they were, you know, it's the IT degree is in there, right? No, those are just classes. Do you know, do you have an Alyssa Brandt that works in that area or anywhere in the campus? No.

• 1:38:04Speaker 06

  And does that check non-teachers and everything? It would be anybody on campus or what? It'll be anybody on campus. The directory will have anybody on campus. How would, does Daniel Speight still work?

• 1:38:18Derrick Levasseur?

  No. Okay, that should do it then. Okay, thank you for your help. You're welcome. Yeah, so we just had this long conversation about how much Bart knew leading up to it. And it's pretty clear now, he was still kind of in the dark.

• 1:38:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:38:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Because when this conversation started, he was very defensive. And there was a belief there that he and his son were being stonewalled and they weren't able to get the documents they needed. And you could see he's aggressive there because he's frustrated. He's frustrated because it should be a simple process, right? His son has a certificate. Why can't I get it? It's nothing to do with money. And so I understand the frustration initially. And then during that conversation, you can feel the moment when he realizes he's being duped.

• 1:39:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's all been a lie, yeah.

• 1:39:07Derrick Levasseur?

  When he, I think, I don't know, I was a little muffled, but his last words were like, that should do it.

• 1:39:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yep.

• 1:39:12Derrick Levasseur?

  And then he knew. And the conversation ended abruptly because he realized that everything that he was being told, all of these, maybe this was a thought in the back of his head up to this moment, but that was what confirmed it.

• 1:39:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. And then after he says to Chandler, texts him, I spoke to Omar Job, right? And Chandler's probably like, who the hell is that? I don't even go to this school. I don't even know who that is. Now, here's the interesting thing, we can piece together what happened because Chandler Halderson had been enrolled at that college and he had taken classes there, sort of. But he had never completed a degree. And the last time he'd even been enrolled had been in the fall of 2020. He hadn't earned a credit since the fall of 2018. Chandler had been enrolled during the spring of 2018. He took four classes, which resulted in two Cs, one B, and a withdrawal from one class.

• 1:40:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  He earned nine credits that semester and he ended the semester with a GPA of 2.33. In the summer of 2018, Chandler was enrolled in three classes. He withdrew from one, he got an A in another and a C in the third. Now, this pattern continued into the fall of 2018 where he withdrew from one of his three courses and got an F in another. The spring of 2019, he withdrew from three of his classes and got a C in the fourth. The fall of 2019, where he withdrew from half of his classes and failed the other half, including Psychology of Human Relations, ironically enough. And then in the fall of 2020, he attempted Psychology of Human Relations again, and he failed again. And the only other class he didn't withdraw from that semester, he failed as well.

• 1:40:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  So at the end of the day, Chandler completed 19 credit hours in three years of college. He withdrew from 14 classes and his cumulative GPA was 1.44. Chandler hadn't been locked in his room all day and night, cracking the books or building his bank account. He had been firmly planted in front of his computer, playing video games. And then on June 29th, 2021, Bart Halderson realized that his son had been lying to him about everything. For years, by the way. So after getting off the phone with Omar Job, Bart then spent some time on the internet, specifically the Madison Area Technical College website where he perused their employee directory and realized that what Omar Job had said was true.

• 1:41:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Every single person who he had been communicating with since the summer of 2020, who he thought was working for the college, had never worked for the college. And I think it was then he realized that Chandler was probably impersonating all of them. So Bart's Outlook calendar had an entry for 3:00 PM that was scheduled for July 1st. And it said, CHAZ, M A T C, Madison Area Technical College. And at 2:10 PM on July 1st, Bart sent his son a text message, quote, "I'm ready whenever you are," end quote. It was the last text message that Bart Halderson would ever send. And there was no activity on his phone after 3:00 PM that day.

• 1:42:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  At 3:19 PM, Chandler sent a text message to his mother Krista, who was at work. And he said, quote, "Dad's phone died, text or call me," end quote. He followed that up with another text, quote, "And get soda on your way home, I have an extra hour of work," end quote. Krista Halderson replied back to her son, quote, "Kay, I can," with a happy face emoji at 3:22 PM. Her phone arrived home at 5:22 PM and she was never seen again. The following weekend would be a strange one for Chandler, a weekend full of unusual behavior, alarming internet searches, and a few sleepovers at his home with his girlfriend Kat, who thought they had the house to themselves that weekend and apparently had no idea

• 1:42:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  that for at least one of those evenings, she was slumbering in the same house where the man she had labeled as hubby in her phone had brutally murdered and dismembered the bodies of his parents.

• 1:43:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so there it is, right? It seems like what really was the tipping point here is Chandler was going on with this whole farce. And Bart figured it out. And from what it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, because you know more about the story than I do, it sounds like there may have been some conversations that weren't via text. I have to imagine that, um, the exact words were, what were they just quoted here? I'm, what'd he say exactly? "I'm ready whenever you are." It sounds to me like there was maybe a phone call or something of that nature where, or maybe an in-person discussion where he said, "This is what I figured out, we have to talk." Maybe Chandler said not right now.

• 1:43:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he like scheduled it in his calendar, yeah.

• 1:43:50Derrick Levasseur?

  He scheduled it in his calendar and then that's when Bart sends that text message, "I'm ready whenever you are."

• 1:43:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because he had a, he had a meeting scheduled for him where they were going to talk about.

• 1:44:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Everything.

• 1:44:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Everything.

• 1:44:02Derrick Levasseur?

  And then, I don't know, I, it's hard for me to ask you because you know, but my questions right now is, is Bart already dead before Krista gets home?

• 1:44:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  I believe so, yeah.

• 1:44:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, right? And so it's just this, it's this kid being a psychopath where he's asking her to get sodas now.

• 1:44:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right, right, that's what I'm saying. He killed his father, I believe, because there's no activity on Bart's phone. And then he texts his mother, knowing that when she gets home, he's going to kill her. But on the way home, he still would like her to pick up some soda to quench his thirst from killing his parents.

• 1:44:37Derrick Levasseur?

  It's not necessary to lower her suspicion either. But maybe, but maybe, okay. I'm putting it together as we're talking here, so then maybe him saying, "Dad's phone's dead," went right to voicemail. That's him basically covering for when she tries to contact her husband.

• 1:44:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly, that's, that's a cover.

• 1:44:57Derrick Levasseur?

  So, so that would indicate he is already gone. He's no longer capable of answering his phone. So he sets that up by saying, "Hey, Dad's not answering his phone for me, AKA, don't be alarmed if he doesn't answer for you."

• 1:45:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, he's, he, they're in the same house. So he's saying, "Dad's phone died, if you need to contact anyone in this house, call me, my phone is still charged."

• 1:45:17Derrick Levasseur?

  And then to try to throw it off a little bit and make it seem like it's just, you know, an innocent conversation, he throws in the soda comment.

• 1:45:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, there's no reason to throw in the soda comment.

• 1:45:25Derrick Levasseur?

  There's no reason, but in his mind, we're talking, think about who we're talking about here.

• 1:45:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why wouldn't Krista think it was a normal conversation? Like, she, she has no suspicions of anything, right? I think he just wanted freaking soda.

• 1:45:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Really?

• 1:45:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes!

• 1:45:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Me, ah, Jesus, man.

• 1:45:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think he knew he was going to kill her and he was like, well, I might not be able to get out to the store to get some soda anytime soon. So I might, I'll just have her bring me, like, that is like a psychopath, like using other people that you, like, just using people, using people. "I'm going to kill you, but please bring me some soda."

• 1:45:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, no, well, I think we can kind of wrap this episode up by making a clear distinction between a psychopath and a sociopath. And I think most of you guys know at this point, and there's a lot of things we can talk about when it comes to the two different profiles. But one of the things is a psychopath is biological a lot of the times and nature is something that's inherent in them. And then sociopaths can be due to the environments around them, something that has developed over time. And based on what you've described about Chandler's childhood, I, I think this may be more something that is an indication that he is a, that he's a psychopath.

• 1:46:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because there's no reason, he had a good childhood, he had loving, supportive parents.

• 1:46:38Derrick Levasseur?

  This is someone where this is more than likely biological nature, some markers that have been there all along. Someone who doesn't display a lot of emotion, someone who lacks a conscience, right? Empathy, simply the ability to emotionally regulate.

• 1:46:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like you said, sociopath can be an environment, so trauma-induced, things like that. But a sociopath can feel limited empathy or guilt towards certain people. Where a psychopath does not feel anything and a psychopath's more controlled. So like where a sociopath will act recklessly, lose control, things like that, like they don't really have control. Thus, a psychopath can imitate somebody who is like socially conventional, where a sociopath has less ability to do that because they're like, they get angry and they will have outbursts and things like that.

• 1:47:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  A psychopath will spend a long time deliberately manipulating people and remain calm when confronted and lie and, and just completely not have empathy or guilt or feel any loyalty towards anybody.

• 1:47:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, and a lot of the times you'll see with psychopaths, they, they almost display a behavior of being withdrawn. And it's not a clear marker either way, because we've seen both.

• 1:48:00Derrick Levasseur?

  But that is something to look for. And when you start to think about Chandler in that light, there are a lot of indicators that would suggest he's he's more in line with that. And the the soda comment, I bring that up because of it, right? The ability to to say that when you know what you're about to do, it just shows a lack of any emotion. You're about to kill your own mother.

• 1:48:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:24Derrick Levasseur?

  It's, you know, that's not that anybody who's watching or listening to this is has ever been in that position. But for Chandler, he's concerned about soda in that moment.

• 1:48:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he's also concerned about getting caught for lying. So it's like, is this a real reason to kill your parents? Well, yeah, you're living at their house for free. You're able to have this lifestyle where you play video games nonstop all day, every day, and you don't have to get a job, and you don't have to be an adult, and you don't have to take responsibility. But if your parents find out, all of that comes crashing down, and you might get kicked out, you might have to actually get a job. So you're gonna have to, you know, pay your own rent and do all those things. And that's not the life that Chandler wants. So instead of being like, yeah, I'll take my, you know, take my accountability, I'll get a job, I'll be a real boy. He's like, no, just kill my parents.

• 1:49:15Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know. The soda thing, even though I basically said he's a psychopath at this point, the soda thing could just be him just being horrible at at carrying this whole thing out. But who knows? I'm looking forward to part three. I want to know more about this case. A lot of you guys in the comments, and I wasn't familiar with this case, you weren't familiar with it. But apparently, it's been covered by a lot of people. But I did see comments where they were saying, we're covering some angles that people haven't really thought about or heard anywhere else. And that's the point. So I think there's a bigger purpose to covering this story, not only for the people who have never heard of it before, like myself, but also, again, it gives us another book on the bookshelf, where we can talk about this case from it from an educational perspective, and apply it to future cases that we cover. Because unfortunately,

• 1:49:59Derrick Levasseur?

  this won't be the last time we meet someone like Chandler. And now we start to identify those profile traits that we can apply to future cases, maybe cases that aren't adjudicated yet. So I find it fascinating.

• 1:50:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  You'd compared it to Joel Guy. But with Joel Guy, not that he had any better motive, because I don't think there's any good motive to kill your parents. But with Joel Guy, it was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be receiving money from my family's life insurance, and I'm gonna have this, and I'm gonna have that. And the house is being left to me and things like that. Whereas with Chandler, it really seemed less about that and more about,

• 1:50:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  I just have to make sure nobody finds out about my lies. That's really what it ended up seeming like. So it's not really, it's the same, but not really.

• 1:50:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Such a such a deep hole that he's in right now.

• 1:50:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he's in a deep hole. That's for sure. And it doesn't look like he's going to be able to get out of it. Positive note, a lot of you guys have been asking about merch. We had a small order come in. Those have been shipped out. If you've ordered it already, it's been shipped out. If you're looking to get it, we have another order coming in. You can just go to crimeweeklypodcast.com, find everything there. Shout out to our patrons. Shout out to the YouTube members. You guys, if you're on YouTube, you're seeing that we highlight you guys on there as well. So any opportunity to be more involved with our community, whether it's our discussion boards on Patreon, or bonus episodes, or shout outs, or monthly giveaways, or if you're just someone who wants ad free content on one of the audio platforms like Apple Podcasts or Spotify,

• 1:51:33Derrick Levasseur?

  you can go over to Apple, you can sign up for that. So we're trying to give options for everyone, although I will always say this, it's not necessary. It's I guess I would call it a luxury. But you're going to still get the same content, you're going to still get the same coverage. But if you want to get more involved, after we end each episode, those are the places to do it. And you can find it in the description box below if you're on YouTube. And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or whatever platform you use. Any final words, Stephanie?

• 1:52:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, that's it. We'll see you next week for the next part. And it gets, you know, you think it can't get any worse. It does.

• 1:52:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Ah, man. Well, looking forward to that. Always a pleasure. Guys, we appreciate you being here. Everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you next week.

• 1:52:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  See you next week.