S3 Ep332: Amy Bradley: Theories and Final Conclusions (Part 4)

In the early morning hours of March 24, 1998, 23-year-old Amy Lynn Bradley vanished from the balcony of her family’s cabin aboard a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. Just a few hours earlier, she had been at a party, joking with her brother, dancing with the ship’s band, and planning out the next day’s adventure in Curaçao. By sunrise, Amy was gone. Her sandals were still on the balcony. Her cigarettes were missing. Her key card and license were gone too, but everything else had been left behind. What began as a family vacation quickly turned into a nightmare, and the moments leading up to Amy’s disappearance would raise questions that remain unanswered to this day. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets!https://www.crimecon.com/CC25Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www. Coyuchi.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 15% off!2. https://www. PDSDebt.com/CrimeWeekly - Get your FREE debt assessment today!3. https://www. HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 27% off sitewide! After you check out, let them know we sent you!4. https://www. NakedWines.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for $100 off your first six bottles!5. https://www. EatIQBAR.com - Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off ALL IQBAR products and FREE shipping!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Today, we are diving into the fourth and final part of the Amy Bradley series. And hey, this series that we're doing has apparently gotten some attention from some, some high profile people who had something to say about it. Do you want to explain?

• 0:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I will, but before I do announcement, you guys have been waiting for this. I don't want to waste any more time because it's coming up on us quicker than I even imagined. I was like, oh, my God, we're going to Crime Con in a couple of weeks. The winner of the second set of tickets for Crime Con 2025 in Denver this year is Amanda Lee. And I'm going to put up her review right here. She wrote, "Crime Con, my friend and I have always wanted to go and meet you and would love to meet you too in Denver." Then she puts an edit, "Bro, it's me, your Insta bestie." And then she writes, "P.S. Your Amy Bradley case is making me feel a certain way about my favorite color being yellow." And then finally, she writes, "P.P.S. I'm the one who made the video you guys all shared on Instagram,

• 1:16Derrick Levasseur?

  and I talked about it in a video, and I'm not going to lie to you. There was some amazing comments from you guys. And the only bad thing about this giveaway is that we can't give tickets to everybody. But we gave the edge to Amanda because she did step outside the box. She did do an actual Instagram video where she broke down our case. She put up a photo of her friend that would be going with her. She, she put some work into it, and you could see that. And so that was the tipping point, but we're going to do this again. It was a huge success. We had a lot of response for it. And next year, maybe we'll do three or four sets of tickets. And now you know, think outside the box, be creative. You could win yourself some free tickets. So Amanda, congratulations, you won.

• 2:00Derrick Levasseur?

  We're looking forward to seeing you at Crime Con.

• 2:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I'm so excited for Crime Con. I'm so excited to see everybody. It's, you know, it's been a year since last Crime Con, but. It feels like forever. Honestly, it's been a very long year. So I'm excited to get together with everyone, hang out. Uh, we have the Clue Awards, which we're super pumped about.

• 2:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, thank you, everyone. We were, we were nominated again for a content creator of the year, which is an award selected by you guys.

• 2:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 2:25Derrick Levasseur?

  So thank you so much.

• 2:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  We really appreciate you guys. We love you so much for this. We can't wait to, to share the weekend with you.

• 2:30Derrick Levasseur?

  You're gonna lose again.

• 2:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's all right.

• 2:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Going up against, one of the people growing up against is Kendall Rae. So in Denver, her backyard.

• 2:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's all right. The most important thing is that people, you know, care enough to even put us in the running and we appreciate that.

• 2:43Derrick Levasseur?

  No, it's not. I'm gonna start breaking legs. We gotta win one year.

• 2:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Derek is so competitive. It's just.

• 2:48Derrick Levasseur?

  We're like the Leo DiCaprio of the Oscars.

• 2:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like, I don't care. I don't care. And then they announced the name and he's like in a bad mood online.

• 2:55Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't like losing. And I blame you. I'm like, it's your fault.

• 2:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't consider it to be losing because we, we got put in there. So the people.

• 3:02Derrick Levasseur?

  If you're not first or last.

• 3:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, no, no, no, no. I don't think so. But all right. So now tell, tell us about the whole, um, you know.

• 3:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. So.

• 3:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Tell us about what happened. What message did you get?

• 3:13Derrick Levasseur?

  So this series has been doing really well and the feedback has been incredible on it. We have really dove all the way in on this one. No pun intended. Like we really have. And we've brought up some interesting points and it's starting to get a lot of engagement. I think it was like number one on Google for videos for a while. And it definitely had some people who were finding the podcast who wouldn't necessarily find it before. And one of them was the directors of the Netflix series, Amy Bradley is Missing, the one that's viral right now that has almost 800 million downloads on Netflix, right? So Phil himself, uh, DM'd us. He reached out and he, you know, said that he'd listened to the podcast and

• 3:55Derrick Levasseur?

  we did an incredible job and we're super talented and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, where's this going? And then he says, you guys said in the episode that Yellow, uh, mentioned being woken up in the morning around 6:00 AM on the morning that Amy was reported missing. Do you guys have a source for this? Because we never found that anywhere. Because obviously if this is true, it would be a real game changer and we, we keep our receipts. So we had a CNN article as our source where Yellow had said this. And I said, sure, no problem, Phil, sent it over to him. I also elaborated by saying, hey, just a heads up. The photo you showed of Amy Bradley, or what was supposed to be Amy Bradley, I don't believe is her.

• 4:38Derrick Levasseur?

  And there's other photos and I explained kind of what I explained to you guys in the last episode. And I said, in my professional opinion, it's not her. And he saw the message, he read it and didn't respond, didn't respond after the source, didn't respond after that. So he gave us the compliment.

• 4:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Left us on red.

• 4:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Left us on red. And I told Stephanie, I said, that was a little odd, at least not, at least a thank you or something for providing the source when we don't work for him, right? And so the next day I responded with, by the way, this is Derek. Anything we can do to help or anything, if you need us to elaborate on anything, just let us know. He reads it again, doesn't respond. Okay. So I let another day go by.

• 5:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Derek doesn't like rejection.

• 5:15Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't like that. I don't like that.

• 5:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  He does not like to be left on red. I'll tell you that much.

• 5:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Then I say on Saturday, hey, Phil, how did you make out with the info? And I'm not going to read every word here, but he immediately responded after that. Hey Derek, sorry, currently filming, not always on Insta, although he read all my messages, but you know, we'll give that a pass. Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. And I'm going to read this part verbatim. We were told by the FBI, they studied the photos carefully and each on just happens to not line up in a way that could possibly give them a clear line of sight to the tattoos. So this is what he's talking about, what I elaborated on. Now I showed you guys the photos. We'll put them up here again, whether it's the right side of her body or left side of her body. I strongly disagree with that assessment. You can clearly see her ankle.

• 6:03Derrick Levasseur?

  You can clearly see her shoulder. So I disagree with that part. Then he says, the timeline of Yellow's memory of being asked if Amy was with him is genuinely curious by 6:00 AM.

• 6:17Derrick Levasseur?

  It's not the Bradley's family story that they ever, they even knew Amy was missing yet, and didn't report that fact that they couldn't find her until 7 a.m. So if the CNN article is accurate, and they put in parentheses, and it's possible the story is incorrect, or Yellow is mistaken, this would mean the ship were looking for Amy before her family even noticed she was missing. Also, I'm a little older. I don't really understand the etiquette of leaving someone on red, so I'm sorry if that was rude. Okay, no problem, Phil. So I wrote back to him, "In my professional opinion, I don't agree with the FBI analysis. You can clearly see all of her shoulder and her leg in one photo, and whether it represents the left or right side of her body, there are no tattoos.

• 7:01Derrick Levasseur?

  But I respect the fact that they may have access to something that I don't. As far as the timeline, my best guess is that if Yellow is telling the truth, he's possibly off with the time. What more than likely happened is that the Bradleys went down to help, to the help desk, mentioned that Amy was last seen with Yellow, and they sent someone down to his cabin without even telling the Bradleys. What we're going to try and determine is if someone actually came to his room that morning, who was it? I appreciate your team wanting to get the answers for the family, and using a platform like Netflix to do so. And no worries, it's not often we are questioned about our sources, and we too want to get answers for the family, so we were curious as to what your team uncovered regarding his statement.

• 7:45Derrick Levasseur?

  As you said, if true, this fact could be a real game changer. Good luck, and please, let us know if you need anything else." And so he wrote back, basically agreeing with me that that is the most likely thing, that when Brad reported that it was weird that Yellow came to him early in the morning, said, "Sorry to hear about your sister", this would make sense, right? And he actually acknowledges that here, that that would align where maybe Yellow's off with the timing of when they came to his room in the morning, but they came to his room, and now he knows that something's up with Amy, so when he sees Brad, he goes, "Hey, sorry about your sister." You know, that would, that would explain that, so...

• 8:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  So what you're saying is Yellow knowing about Amy being missing when he spoke to Brad...

• 8:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Would make more sense, if they came down to his room.

• 8:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Even if they hadn't made the announcement yet, because he'd already been notified since he was named at the help desk as one of the last people that Amy was seen with the night before.

• 8:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and we were talking about this before. They go to the help desk and say, "Hey, Amy was with this person last..." They know who it is. They know how he is. They send someone down there to get her out of the room if she's there. They want to avoid any problems. Do I think it happened at 6 a.m.? No, I do not. It's not possible. It had to have happened after the Bradleys reported her missing. So I think that Yellow's got that time wrong. Now, this could be significant for a couple of reasons, and maybe we'll get into it later in the episode, but on the surface, if, if Yellow's already in his room at the time when they're reporting Amy missing, it's not completely impossible that he still is involved, but it's less likely. He's already back in his room, passed out, or at least pretending to be passed out. But to think

• 9:23Derrick Levasseur?

  this was some elaborate trafficking event, you would think that he would still be out doing whatever he's doing because she was, according to her father, seen at 5:30 and then by 6 she was gone. They went downstairs by 7. So it's still an hour, hour and a half, but a lot smaller of a window than the Charlie drill later in the day at 1 p.m. when they believe that was when Yellow's room was finally looked into. So the window of opportunity does shrink quite significantly. And overall, I will say this, although I don't agree with everything in the documentary, it is extremely well done.

• 9:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's well produced.

• 9:58Derrick Levasseur?

  It's very well produced. And the, the lighting, the camera work, it's incredible. It puts you back on the ship. It's incredible. I will say that.

• 10:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, I think it's worth a watch, I will say.

• 10:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Definitely watch. There's a lot of great information in there and there's no way we could do this series the way we're doing it without watching it. But overall, thank you guys. Thank you for your support and the fact that Netflix or people who are working for Netflix are reaching out to us, little old podcasts, independent podcasts. It's a pretty big deal. And, uh, you know, Phil, I appreciate you reaching out. And listen, I will say this to him and the rest of his team, and I think I can speak for you as well. We want the same thing as you. We want answers for the family. If there's anything we can do to help, we're more than willing to do so, even if it's just sharing something on our platform. We are all in this together. I'm glad they took the opportunity to use Netflix's platform to share this story. So it's all good and all love, but not something you would expect from a huge.

• 10:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Netflix director to come out and say, hey, what's your source? What are your thoughts on all that? I mean, I talked a lot there. When you heard this, you were very surprised, but share it with the people. What is your thought on all of this? You know, his, you know, DMing us and then obviously the back and forth.

• 11:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, I'm honestly, I'm not surprised. I, I have a tendency, because I love documentaries, to reach out. So there was a one on HBO about a mother that went missing and her son was the one who did the documentary. And I was so moved by it and it impacted me so much. I reached out to him on Instagram and he talked back and we chatted a little bit. This is their work, you know, this is, it's a part of who they are. They, they take it very seriously. It's something important to them. So yeah, I think that, you know, all of that, like little podcast, big Netflix director, it goes out the window when, when you feel like your work may be questioned, just like you, you know, and our sources were questioned. Uh, it's like, no, no, no, let me, let me defend myself. Let me clear this up here and I, I'm appreciative for it.

• 11:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think that if they, and I told you, I said, write back to him and be like, hey, this is from CNN. But if you have some, you know, source that we don't, like if you have access to police reports or FBI reports, please let us know and we will clear that up on the podcast. That's not really exactly what happened. It was kind of vague about how he got that information. He said the FBI, they interviewed the FBI, but still, um, it's always good to collaborate on these things. Cause like you said, we should be wanting the same thing.

• 12:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Sharing information all in it for the, together. And you know, listen, I watched the documentary. I saw the part where the FBI analyst said, you know, they believe this could be Amy Bradley. Yeah. Based on that one photo, I can see where they make the, the comparison. They talk about the lips, the chin, that, you know, the hair, the widow's peak.

• 12:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. For sure. Looks like her. We, we acknowledge that readily. Yeah.

• 12:43Derrick Levasseur?

  But that's a close up photo. Did they compare the other photos? Did the FBI analyst have access to the full body photos? Where you can clearly see her shoulder and ankle and there's no tattoo? Now, I'm going to address it right now because there were a couple of comments about this and feel free to disagree with me, Stephanie. But the only rebuttal I have to my assessment of these photos is, well, Derek, they could digitally alter the photos or they could use makeup. Here's my response to that. First off, if they digitally altered the photo, there's usually a software that can see what areas were altered.

• 13:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially back then, it wasn't like the, the technology of now.

• 13:20Derrick Levasseur?

  It wasn't that, that high tech. It ain't, it ain't Canva or whatever you're, everyone's using now. But also, if you're going to go to the trouble of digitally altering the tattoos, why not digitally alter her face? If you're trying to avoid her being caught.

• 13:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I mean, she's, I don't, I, I, I don't know. I think her hair was longer, the makeup was different. And but, but you're not, if you're, if you're advertising an escort, you're not going to change her face because it's part, it's part of the product, right? That I, I don't want to, I'm not referring to her as product, by the way, for those who are listening and can't see, I'm using quotations.

• 13:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Quotations, yes.

• 13:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Part of the product that this John or whatever is, is paying for. So you don't want to make her face look different. I think that definitely this woman who could or could be Amy, who could or could not be Amy Bradley, looks like Amy as far as her features go, but you clearly see her hair's longer, her makeup's darker, there's differences there.

• 14:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Which could have grown over the years.

• 14:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Maybe they thought that would be enough. Yeah, I don't know.

• 14:16Derrick Levasseur?

  So there's the digital altering of the photo and then also the makeup. The makeup's possible, but I, I again pose this question to all of you. If you're that concerned about her being identified by someone who's looking for her, sell her on the, the black market, not on a website.

• 14:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 14:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Like if you're going to go through all those troubles to alter her skin or remove tattoos or cover them up or digitally alter photos, maybe it's not worth putting her online. Because even though you altered the photos, this woman looks just like her. So it doesn't, it doesn't, it contradicts what the whole process would be. If you're altering stuff, it's so that people don't recognize her and yet you left her face completely intact. And this woman clearly looks like her. So that's my take on it. And some of you noticed that, you know, I said the word, the phrase, I'm 100% certain and I never say that. And I will tell you, after watching the series, after looking at the photos, a million times, I am still 100% certain, coupled with the fact that there's a woman out there pretending

• 15:16Derrick Levasseur?

  to be her, that this photo is not of Amy Bradley.

• 15:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. I'm not 100% certain, but.

• 15:23Derrick Levasseur?

  100. No, I'm just kidding.

• 15:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm not, I'm not.

• 15:26Derrick Levasseur?

  I would bet my profession on that. It's not her. That's how convinced I am. Unless someone's going to prove to me that these photos were altered and that they were, the makeup was added and all this, and yet they still decided to leave her face exactly the way it was. And I do have more.

• 15:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  They could have put makeup on. I know that there, there used to be a.

• 15:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Of course they could.

• 15:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, a type of makeup that was intentionally formulated to cover tattoos. It was like thicker and you really, you can't, so that, that could be the case.

• 15:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Look at the scam artist put tattoos on to make it look like Amy.

• 15:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I think that's the only, I think that's the only thing that's preventing me from going 100% that's not Amy Bradley because of how much she looks like her. That's the only thing, they, there is, there are and were ways to conceal tattoos and they could have done that, hoping that would be enough to, you know, make sure she wasn't recognized or found. And clearly it wasn't.

• 16:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Even though her face looks exactly like her?

• 16:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly it wasn't enough if that was their plan.

• 16:21Derrick Levasseur?

  You get what I'm saying? Like, her face, this woman, if it's Amy, she looks just like her.

• 16:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know.

• 16:27Derrick Levasseur?

  So like, okay, you got rid of the tattoos, but you didn't do anything to her face. So if her mom or dad sees it, they're going to know it's their daughter.

• 16:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Derrick Levasseur?

  And you know something that I didn't hear? And you may agree with this, you may not. In that docu-series, I didn't see Amy's parents say, "That's Amy." Maybe I missed it.

• 16:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Um, I think her mother said like, "Oh, that, that does look like Amy." As she looks harder and like, yeah, but, but it does look like Amy, yes.

• 16:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Like, I, and again, we're talking about five years down the road, so things, your, your, your child could change, but to me, that's where I stand on it. I'll die on that hill. I'm, I'm very convinced. Like I said, I told the Netflix director, you know, what I thought about it, but I'm not saying it to be right. I'm saying it because I don't want us to pursue something that's not going to lead us to where we want to be. And I, I will talk about what we could do with this photo because I do think there's an angle to pursue here. And I'm surprised that we haven't yet. If we have, I have no public information on it, but yeah, we'll get into the episode and I'll give it, I'll give more of an in-depth analysis during my conclusion.

• 17:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So let's dive in because at this point, the Bradleys have to sort of accept there's nothing they can do. Going around all these places, they're having car chases in Caribbean islands and they have to go back home. So back home in Virginia, the Bradleys did turn their house into a command center determined to keep Amy's case alive. They contacted media outlets, lawmakers and law enforcement, launched websites and hotlines and offered hundreds of thousands of dollars in reward money. Leads poured in from Curacao and San Francisco, giving the family hope that Amy could still be out there. But one of the most disturbing tips came in 2005, when the Bradleys received explicit photos of a woman known as Jazz on an escort website.

• 18:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  I would also be interested to know where they got the photos from, who sent them, you know, it's a tip, but who specifically sent them? Was there anybody who said, "Hey, uh, I frequent these sites?" Or, you know, I, I think if I remember correctly, it was, I guess an establishment or an organization that was focused on identifying victims of human trafficking going through these websites. So that's actually a legitimate sort of lead at that point because it's a, an organization that's doing this specifically so they can find people, missing women who may be now, you know, trafficked and advertised on these websites. So the FBI analyzed the images, believed the woman could be Amy, could be.

• 19:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yet they couldn't determine where the photos had been taken, or for sure if it was Amy. So with no answers in sight, the Bradleys decided to do something big. They would go on national television to reveal the jazz photos, hoping it might finally bring the break that they needed. So in November of 2005, the Bradley's sat down with Dr. Phil to talk about Amy's disappearance and share the jazz photos. They hoped someone watching would recognize her and come forward with information, and their plan worked. Not long after the episode aired, a woman named Judy came forward. She said that in March of 2005, she and her husband had been on a cruise docked in Bridgetown Barbados. They went downtown to do some shopping, and while inside a department store bathroom, Judy had an encounter she would never forget.

• 19:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  She said a man and a woman walked in together, and she immediately felt uneasy. From her stall, she overheard the man repeat himself five or six times. He said something like, "The deal's at 11 o'clock, and you better be ready to go. I'm warning you, you better cooperate. This is my deal, you better not mess it up." So after they left, Judy stepped out and saw a young woman still inside. She looked like she was about to cry, so Judy asked where she was from. The woman spoke so softly, Judy could barely hear her, but she said, "Virginia." When Judy asked her name, she answered, "Amy." Judy told her, "Oh, my daughter's name is Amy." And she said the woman's mouth flew open, and she pivoted towards her with a horrified look on her face.

• 20:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  The woman rushed toward her, trying to quiet her, but before she could say more, four men appeared outside and began pounding on the door. When it flew open, Judy bolted out of the bathroom, past them. Okay, so there's a few things in this story. I remember this story from when I had done my early research. There's a few things that don't make sense. Judy's in the bathroom? Am I right? The Judy's in the bathroom of this department store? Then, a man and a woman walked into the bathroom together? Which I would assume was a ladies' room? And Judy felt uneasy? And then she said from her stall, she heard the man repeating himself five or six times, you know, the deal's at 11, you better be ready, this is my deal, don't mess it up.

• 21:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then af- and I guess they, she says after they left, but I suppose she means after she stopped hearing the voices, Judy comes out of the stall and that's when she sees this young woman still inside the bathroom. And they're sort of talking and then maybe Judy's a little louder when she says, oh, Amy, that's my daughter's name, which stresses this woman out. And then four men are pounding on the door. Why were they pounding on the door when they could have just come in? I mean, if I already walked in the bathroom with her with no issues, why are they pounding on the door instead of just coming in? It just, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, this story. Do I think it possibly happened? Maybe I find it a little bit more likely that now you're on national television, you're on Dr.

• 22:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Phil and there's just some people that wanna be a part of something. They just wanna kind of put their, their name in the ring and they wanna have some sort of connection to, to some case that they saw on TV. I don't, I don't really know. What do you think about it? What does the story sound like to you?

• 22:18Derrick Levasseur?

  So I saw this interview on the Netflix doc as well. And I'm gonna go back to an earlier interview that you talked about last episode, which was the military veteran who was getting ready to retire. He was a couple of months away.

• 22:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. Yep.

• 22:31Derrick Levasseur?

  And I watched that.

• 22:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Who saw her at that, at that escort bar, right?

• 22:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And he had a lot more details. She said her name was Amy. And in that interview, I don't know if you mentioned it in the actual episode, but in the interview, first and foremost, I don't mind saying it, the guy sounds like an idiot. He's laughing the whole time. He's like, I don't know, I just didn't like him.

• 22:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's very unserious, yeah.

• 22:49Derrick Levasseur?

  I didn't like him. Didn't like him. That's just my personal opinion. But he said something that stood out to me. He says that as he was talking to this woman, she's sitting there, she kinda looks like Amy, he doesn't know it at the time, he didn't see Amy till after, but looks like Amy and she says she's, you know, she was taken. And she says, I owe these guys $200 and they have my papers.

• 23:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That stood out to me because you will have instances where

• 23:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  That wasn't in the original story. He, she just said she couldn't leave because they had her papers.

• 23:20Derrick Levasseur?

  So in the Netflix doc, I, I saw that he, she said they owed her 200, he, she owed them $200. And to me, that stood out. Why? In my experience, whether you agree with it or not, I, I was involved in a lot of, uh, John stings. And a lot of the times, the sex workers would bring up reasons why they needed the money. To try to get more money out of the Johns. Oh, I gotta pay my rent. I got this guy I gotta pay off. I owe this person money. I need to turn on my utilities, whatever. To me, a lot of these stories, including Judy's, are true, or mostly true. Unfortunately, I don't believe they were talking to Amy. I believe they were talking to Jas, AKA Susan from Daytona.

• 24:02Derrick Levasseur?

  And I think that this woman was using these stories to try to elicit business. And I think with this particular military veteran, she was trying to get some extra money out of him. Saying that she was Amy and she owed, she owed this guy 200 bucks. Maybe he was gonna give it to her. With Judy, I think a similar thing where I don't know what the overall motive would be with the, with this woman, but maybe she was just in character and that's what she was telling everybody. That's her, that's her name, her dancer name, you know, like she's going by Amy. I do think there was a woman who was going around these islands and being seen by people and she did look very similar to Amy Bradley. But that's because she was doing it on purpose and the real reason was is because she was trying to generate income.

• 24:44Derrick Levasseur?

  So that's where I kind of put most of these witness statements. The only one that was somewhat interesting to me was before they got off the boat. There were two party goers who saw her at the six in the morning. We talked about that. She says that she saw Amy and Yellow going up the elevator up to the club, which you already talked about. And she says then Yellow walked by her like 15 minutes later and didn't say anything, but he wasn't with Amy.

• 25:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:11Derrick Levasseur?

  To me.

• 25:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree that, that she seems very certain.

• 25:15Derrick Levasseur?

  She seems believable, but to me, I think that her timing's off. I don't think, I think, I think what she said she saw, she saw, cause she knew who Yellow was. They were in the club together. He had flirted with her. But it's very possible what she saw was actually them leaving. For the night and and yellow trying to get her to come back to his room, but he but she didn't. So that story can be completely true and yet off with the timing. But because she's saying 6am, now it's a huge story.

• 25:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Because she's already back in her room, when in reality, that could have been around 3:30, 4 o'clock in the morning. Or 3:45 right before as Amy's going back to her room, so. That's my interpretation of it. I know that there's going to be people who disagree with me, but that's how I take it because that's the only interview. That I see where Jas was not on that boat. So it could not have been Jas. But once you get off the island, the person asking where the phone is.

• 26:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Could it have been another girl? With yellow who had brown hair and kind of looked like Amy, you know, could have also been a mistaken identity. Maybe he was talking to some other girl. We don't know.

• 26:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Possible, possible, absolutely. And so, you know, and then the and then the the accounts and I'm putting all of these under that category. Because I'm of the belief that Amy didn't get off the boat. These sightings, they're either just completely wrong. Or the woman they're describing who's calling herself Amy Bradley is actually Jas. And, you know, I'm not going to save it for the end. I'll say it right now. Where's where is Jas? Where is Susan from Daytona? Have we tracked her down? Do we have any info on her? I've seen the Reddit forums. I've seen some other. Newspaper clippings or whatever on articles online. Where is this woman? Because we could put a lot of this to bed right now. Because if you find her. Supposedly there was another woman who knew her said, yeah, I know Susan. She was going around saying this.

• 27:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Where's that woman? Let's reverse engineer this. Let's find Susan if she's still alive. Because we could bring her in. And interview her and find out if she's the woman that all these people are describing, the one who asked to use the phone or where the phone was. The person who talked to this military veteran.

• 27:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's not a really good look. I don't think she wants to come forward. Yeah.

• 27:17Derrick Levasseur?

  But it's a terrible look that you're using this person. As a means of getting more money because you know she's missing. So she's already a horrible person. I don't feel bad for her.

• 27:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, that's probably why she that that opinion of her is probably why she wouldn't want to come forward. Yeah.

• 27:30Derrick Levasseur?

  But she doesn't have a choice. We gotta, we gotta find her. We gotta find.

• 27:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm sure there's a crime you can charge her with. I'm sure there's something there. We could get creative.

• 27:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, there is a crime there. That's why she's not coming forward.

• 27:41Derrick Levasseur?

  We'll find a way to get her into an interview room, but um. But overall, I think that's what a lot of these, I'm chalking these sightings on the islands up to that. I think these people who saw. "Amy Bradley" was actually seeing Jas or someone who also looked like Amy Bradley.

• 27:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, well, we're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we're gonna talk more about Judy, because she's going to speak to the FBI after she comes forward.

• 28:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, we're back. So after Judy came forward, the FBI did work with her to create composite sketches of the woman she saw in one of the men that she was with. And the sketches were released publicly, but unfortunately, they didn't lead to any arrests or confirmed sightings. The FBI later told Netflix that they followed up with the department store, but no one remembered seeing Amy or the men, and there were no cameras in that area. But according to amybradleyismissing.com, Judy's account was not the only sighting in Bridgetown that day. The site reported that Amy was seen three times in total. First in the checkout line at the Del Sol store on Broad Street, then in the bathroom with Judy, and later walking on the sidewalk a block away.

• 28:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Witnesses said she was surrounded by four men, and the site suggested the group may have been traveling by yacht. Another possible sighting of Amy came in 2007, though little is known about it. What we do know is that a couple in Aruba reported seeing her at the Mill Restaurant in January of that year. She was with four men, and the couple noticed her tattoos. At the time, they didn't think much of it, but later, when they saw a story about Amy's case, they realized the significance and reached out. Now, as far as I can tell, this is the last sighting of "Amy", which leads me to ask, you know, maybe if she was seen several times in that same area in Barbados, in Bridgetown, that could have been Jas.

• 29:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then we have a couple in Aruba seeing her in January of 2007, once again surrounded by four men. So what was the deal that the guy was talking about in the bathroom? Was it just a deal for that day? Or was he selling her because she's still with these people, these same people? Like, she's important enough to be assigned four handlers for what, the rest of her life? As they follow her around from island to island, not even really switching up their locations, you know? Barbados, and Kirasau, and Aruba, all these kind of same places. And even though all of these sightings are coming out... Like after the 2005 sighting came out and it's on Dr. Phil, do you still think these

• 30:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  four men would just be wandering around town with her, wandering around the Caribbean with her? It's hard to believe that and I feel like I'm a skeptic now like Derek, but it is hard for me to believe that all this publicity, this is, there's, there's tons and tons of girls out there and if this is some trafficking organization, they're grabbing a bunch of them every single day. Why are they still so focused on Amy even though she's clearly a liability at this point? And they still keep taking her out and wandering around town with her while she's this little girl surrounded by four men all the time?

• 30:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I have a lot that I had saved for like my ending here, but it, it's, I have to bring it up now because it just fits better. It's not always the case, but in many instances, human traffickers will target the disenfranchised. They're gonna go after people who don't have many connections, who are not gonna have people asking questions about where they are. I'm gonna be candid with you guys here, they're not normally targeting the white woman on the cruise ship who's with her family, because that's gonna raise too many red flags and it's gonna be all hands on deck to find her. Planes, boats, the FBI, everyone's gonna be out looking for her. Now, is that fair? Probably not. It should be like that for everyone, but we're gonna be honest here, and the human traffickers

• 31:32Derrick Levasseur?

  know what we know. You take somebody who looks like Amy Bradley, you're gonna have everyone coming after you. And to think, like Stephanie just said, that they're gonna be parading her around these islands, just hoping that nobody sees her or recognizes her is, in my opinion, highly unlikely. Because here's the thing, these were just random people that noticed her, according to what they said. What if it was a police officer or an FBI agent who was out looking for her? They're not just gonna walk away when, when these guys walk up to her, there's gonna be a gunfight. Are they gonna risk that?

• 32:07Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't see it happening. So there's a lot here. It's not just one thing that's leading me to my opinion on this case. It's a totality of circumstances. It's not only what happened on the boat before Amy went missing, after she went missing, but also these accounts of seeing her. I don't think people for the most part are flat out lying. I just think they got the wrong person and that happens all the time.

• 32:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And with all these sightings coming out, if this is some well organized crime syndicate like people are making them out to be, you think that someone at the top would contact these guys and be like, hey, can we stop like taking her out for field trips to department stores and bars, please? Like maybe keep her inside, you know, can you guys get your shit together? They, they've got like composite sketches. They've got descriptions of four men. Can you at least change up your patterns? Yeah.

• 32:54Derrick Levasseur?

  They're looking for her. It's not some woman who's nobody, who nobody cares about, who left her family, who's not looking for her.

• 33:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Who doesn't even know that she's missing. Yeah.

• 33:02Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right. That's right. And so, I mean, am I saying that the right way here? I'm trying to get it across. Like their, their target, the people they're going after, it, it, Amy Bradley does not fit that profile.

• 33:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree. Alright, so then in 2010, a jawbone with a single tooth washed ashore in Aruba. Now, at first investigators thought it might belong to missing woman Natalie Holloway, but testing ruled that out. The FBI then asked Ron and Iva for Amy's dental records to compare against the jawbone. Although they didn't believe it was Amy's because they still think she's alive, they handed over the records anyway. And Iva told the media, quote, "We have provided Amy's dental records because we follow every single lead of any size or nature." End quote. I would say that's a pretty big lead, by the way.

• 33:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that's something you'd want to follow.

• 33:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Even if you think she got taken, they could have still killed her and thrown her in the ocean.

• 33:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Correct.

• 33:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's a pretty big lead.

• 33:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Or if she was killed on the boat, she could have been thrown in the ocean, right? That could still be her body.

• 34:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  But despite collecting the records, authorities never tested the bone further, not against Amy or anyone else. And as far as I can tell, to this day, it's unknown who the jawbone belonged to.

• 34:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, well, that's ridiculous.

• 34:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why? Why?

• 34:14Derrick Levasseur?

  That same, same question.

• 34:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why if they? Provided the dental records.

• 34:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, there's something, there's more to that story. Something's, something's going on there. There's no way they didn't, they did, they asked for the records and then didn't test it.

• 34:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do anything with them?

• 34:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Hmm, that's interesting. I don't, I think there's more to that story than we know.

• 34:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I mean, once again, there's so much to this we don't know, based on the fact that it happened on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean and very, you know, there's no solid like, oh, this is who is in charge of this case. And then we get the FBI, I guess, the most in charge of the case of all, of all the authorities that were kind of involved with it, the FBI, but the FBI is not known for just talking about these cases, releasing information, and I don't even know who you would contact with the FBI to be like, hey, why didn't, why didn't you guys take this jawbone from this girl who's missing?

• 35:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, FBI agents are doing the Netflix documentary, so I mean, they should probably be able to get that answer.

• 35:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  You guys clearly got time, you're talking to Netflix, so why, why, why wouldn't you compare? You have the dental records, you have the jaw, unless they don't have the jawbone anymore, which might be something they don't want to talk about.

• 35:17Derrick Levasseur?

  If you haven't seen the docu-series, the FBI, you know, there's multiple people from the FBI on there, investigators who worked the case, people who are on the news, doing the press releases. My takeaway is they don't know what happened. They, they haven't ruled out suicide, accident, foul play, everything's still on the, on the board for them. Just so you know, just to give you the short version of it, that they don't, they have no idea. I'm sure they have ideas on what they think happened, but they haven't ruled anything out.

• 35:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  If they still have that jawbone, there's no excuse of why they haven't tested it against Amy.

• 35:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Tested, or they did, and it just didn't give them the results they were looking for, or was too degraded to pull results, that's possible, but say that, just come on, say it.

• 35:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, if they were able to say it's not Natalie Holloway, why can't they say it's not Amy Bradley?

• 35:59Derrick Levasseur?

  They, they basically have to put it in a machine, they sequence it, they, they basically pull a digital footprint that they can use to update to a familial database, uh, and

• 36:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I think they'd also compare the, the teeth and the jawbone from the dental records, because you get x-rays and stuff.

• 36:12Derrick Levasseur?

  They could do that as well, but a, a minimum, they could compare it to the, they could put it in the database if it's not her, maybe it's someone else.

• 36:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Derrick Levasseur?

  You think they would say that?

• 36:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  You think, you think. So, that same year, despite believing Amy was still alive, her parents, Ron and Iva, had her declared legally dead. Now, around that time, Alastair Douglas, who's yellow, he spoke publicly, and this is when he talked in an interview with CNN. He insisted he had nothing to do with Amy's disappearance. He said Amy had joined band members for drinks at the ship's dance club after their performance on March 23rd, that he parted ways with her at about 1 a.m., which would have been the 24th. And Yellow said he headed to the staff elevator while Amy went in another direction, though he didn't see where. He claimed that at around 6 a.m., a cruise line manager woke him and asked him if Amy was in his room. He said investigators searched his cabin and those of his bandmates later that day,

• 37:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  but found nothing. As we've talked about, that timeline doesn't match up with what the Bradleys and others have said, or what records showed. And according to the FBI, key card data showed Yellow returning to his cabin at 3:35 a.m., which was around the same time Amy and Brad returned to theirs. And the Bradleys didn't report Amy missing until after 7 a.m., making Yellow's claim about being woken up at 6 a.m. impossible. But, he could have just been woken up at like 7:30, and I guess thought it was 6 a.m. He's exhausted, he goes back to sleep. However-

• 37:36Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what I think, yeah.

• 37:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  If he and Amy parted ways at 1 a.m., did he ever say what he did between 1 a.m. and 3:35 when he returned to his cabin? That's two and a half hours.

• 37:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I don't know, but what's interesting to me is, he gets to his room at 3:35, and I think Amy Bradley got to her room at 3:45. But I do think you bring up a good question, like what were they doing for those next hour and a half, two hours? Were they, when, when Yellow says they parted ways-

• 38:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  If Yellow's timeline is correct, right?

• 38:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. If Yellow's timeline is correct, did they part ways, meaning they were at the bar together, and then they figured out it wasn't, they weren't vibing, it wasn't gonna work, so they both kinda separated, but were still in the bar, kind of hanging out with other people? And then, as the night dwindled on, and people left the bar, they, everyone who was left kinda went to their rooms around that 3:30 timeframe? That, that, I've seen that happen before, that's possible. But she did go back to her room and I do think it's interesting that her key card clocked in at 3:45 and his clocked in at 3:35 that would line up with her getting back to her room safely, at least at that point.

• 38:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so we were kind of talking off the record and you were like, hey, like, does this make sense? Because Yellow says that he left Amy at around 1, but I thought Brad said that he left Amy and Yellow around that time and he kind of had walked away from them and left them alone. Does this timeline make sense? So I looked it up and Brad reportedly said he left Amy at the club sometime after midnight, after she decided to stay behind while he returned to the ship with the other family members. Some accounts mention a window between 12:30 and 1 as the likely time Brad departed the club. Now, this is based on family recollections other than official logs like key card entries. Because we have no security

• 39:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  footage or anything to verify the exact time, this is going to be, this timeline's based off of what Brad remembers. And it's also at this point based off of what Yellow remembers. So the only thing we know is what time Brad and Amy and Yellow returned to the cabin because we have a log of that. We don't actually know if Yellow was wrong about getting woken up at 6, he could have been wrong about when he last saw Amy because it makes more sense that you guys kind of left each other around 3 because shortly after that, then you both were back in your respective cabins. If not, then what did Yellow do for 2 and 1/2 hours? And what did Amy do for 2 and 1/2 hours? I don't really know. That doesn't make sense. So, Yellow could just be bad with time.

• 40:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and for those who believe Yellow's involved, you would also have to believe that they were with each other till like 1 or 2 or whatever it was, decided both to go back to their rooms and they had pre-decided what time they were going to meet up again.

• 40:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hours later, though, yeah.

• 40:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know why they wouldn't just stay together for the time that they wanted to stay together and go to their room later that morning. But no, where to believe, because there was no digital transactions that where there was communications between them to set up that meetup. So, it would have been something where they said, hey, you go back to your room, I'm gonna go back to my room. And I'll see you back here in two hours.

• 40:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  But like, that's crazy. That's so late already. You've been drinking.

• 40:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Drinking all night.

• 40:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you're gonna now sit in your cabin at one o'clock in the morning and wait two hours before you go back and.

• 40:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she's 23 years old. She's a grown woman. She doesn't have to report to her parents. She can stay out. He's by himself. So it just doesn't, just on the surface level, makes sense.

• 40:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and honestly, if she stayed out to hang out with the guy and then went back and told her parents that, they'd probably be happy. So.

• 41:04Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a good point.

• 41:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's like, don't worry, I'm with a man. They won't care. They'll love it. I'll go back and tell them in the morning that I was with a man all night and they'll, they'll be so proud.

• 41:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Touche. So yes, but the 335, 345, that sounds like two people who went to the room after the night was over.

• 41:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but this is exactly why witness testimony is so unreliable. And how the keycard's wife's are really the only thing we have to go on. Because Yellow's talking about getting woken up at six and less seeing Amy at one. And neither one of those accounts really makes sense. The times are off. So you just, you can't, you can't go by Yellow saying this is the time it happened and be like, oh, this is canon now in this case. No, it's not.

• 41:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Now, people will say, just to be devil's advocate, people will say, well, Derek, if Yellow's lying, he did meet back up with Amy. What those people saw on the top of the ship was Amy and Yellow together. They went up to this club area that was closed at the time. And Yellow drops her off to someone who's there waiting for her, not known to her. Like, he says, hey, let's meet up. And there's someone who pops out of nowhere, grabs her. He comes back down and walks by those two witnesses, gets back to his room, hops in bed, knowing that they're gonna be checking for her soon. The director or someone comes downstairs, hey, is she in here? Nope, no, she's not. I just, I've been sleeping. Can I say with 100% certainty that didn't happen? No, I cannot. It just seems like a lot. It seems.

• 42:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Less likely than the other scenario, especially considering some of the evidence we're going to talk about with the possibility that she fell overboard.

• 42:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so maybe he was like, hey, let's part ways now and then meet back up here in a couple of hours because he had to, you know, communicate with somebody and set things up.

• 42:47Derrick Levasseur?

  But he went back to his room.

• 42:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, allegedly.

• 42:49Derrick Levasseur?

  No, his card went clicked into his room.

• 42:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Two and a half hours after he claims he last saw her, though.

• 42:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, but she left, she went to her room at that time, too.

• 42:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but if you're in that camp, you could have said maybe Amy did something else and he was setting it up and she kind of didn't.

• 43:04Derrick Levasseur?

  I think they were together most of the night.

• 43:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  She didn't go, she didn't go back to her room right away because she knew that she was going to have to meet him at that certain time. So she went back eventually to like change her shirt and get something or whatever and then she left. I don't know, but anyways, the timeline's all messed up and it's not reliable at all. It's very possible those two witnesses saw Amy and Yellow at a different time when they were together or saw Yellow with someone else and that that had brown hair and kind of looked like Amy from afar. And so they're using that as as a timeline. But all right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Okay, we're back. Now, there were few developments until 2018. That year marked 20 years since

• 43:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Amy Bradley disappeared. And that year, the FBI announced they were still seeking information about her case. And to that, I would say FBI, you got a jawbone and you got Amy's dental records. Why don't you test that instead of asking everybody the, you know, for information that you're seeking still? I would like to know what happened with the jawbone. So the FBI released two age progressed images showing what Amy might look like at age 43 and they offered a $25,000 reward for information that could bring her home. But once again, years passed without any major updates. Then in October of 2024, James Renner from True Crime This Week interviewed Yellow on camera. At that time, Yellow was living in his home

• 44:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  country of Granada, where he worked as an exorcist and ran a small church. So during the interview. Yellow talked about what happened on March 23rd and 24. He told Renner that he remembered speaking briefly with Amy after his band finished playing. He said Amy came over to compliment his set. They had a short conversation about music and after going back to his cabin to change, he saw her again on deck. She greeted him and he noticed she was smoking heavily. They talked a little more and he said Amy told him her father was an insurance manager who had forced her to come on the cruise after finding out she was gay. Yellow said he wasn't sure how to respond, but he invited her to dance. According to Yellow, they danced for a short time. Then just before 1 a.m. he left and went back to his cabin because crew members were

• 45:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  required to exit passenger areas at that time. He claimed that this was the last time he saw or spoke to Amy. Now, I would like to know, do keycard swipes confirm that Yellow went back to his cabin at, you know, right around that 1 o'clock time? Because according to him, all crew members were required to exit passenger areas at that time, so he went back to his cabin. But according to the keycard swipes, he didn't until after 3 a.m. So what the hell is going on here? It does seem like he's lying and not being completely upfront. And people who believe in this trafficking theory and believe that he's involved would ask you, Derek, why?

• 45:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I don't have an answer for all of it. I don't. I, I, I don't know if their times are off. I know there's a lot of drinking involved and I can't explain everything. I really can't.

• 46:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  So the way he's making it sound, they're at the club, March 23rd. He and his band play a set. Then he, they finish the set, Amy walks up, she's like, great, great set. And he's like, thanks. He goes back to his cabin to change before returning to hang out, you know, at the club some more. And then he and Amy talk more deeply. She tells him a little bit about her life, et cetera. They dance. Then he goes back at 1, because apparently the crew has to be out of passenger areas at that time. Is that true? Why would the crew have to be out of passenger areas at that time?

• 46:39Derrick Levasseur?

  That would make sense.

• 46:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, why was he allowed to go back to the passenger area after his set? Why is it this arbitrary time of 1 a.m.?

• 46:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe that's just the Royal Caribbean rule, which is after 1 a.m. you're not to be out partying with the passengers.

• 46:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, but you can party with them before 1 a.m.

• 46:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, before 1 a.m. You have a curfew. They don't want you out there till 6 a.m. partying.

• 46:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  But would Royal Caribbean not confirm that? Because the, the official data that we have says he didn't, he doesn't get back to his cabin till 3:30.

• 47:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 47:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's weird.

• 47:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Unless someone else had her key card and sat on their balcony in the Bradley's room and had legs that looked like hers, Amy, after 3:35 a.m., which is when Yellow got to his room, was safe and sound in her own room. I think that's important.

• 47:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  And she hung out with Brad on the balcony, right?

• 47:25Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right. And we're gonna talk about that, but you could make an argument that, oh, whatever happened to Amy happened in that window that Yellow's lying about. No, that's not what happened, not according to the key card, not according to the Bradleys themselves. She made it back to her room safely and didn't report anything out of the ordinary other than, oh, Yellow came on to me downstairs. She did say that to Brad.

• 47:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  It just does appear like he's lying because before it was, oh, I'm going back to my cabin at 1 a.m. and it seemed like that was just a decision he made and he could have been wrong about the time. But now he's adding another layer of it, saying, oh, according to the ship's policy, like, the crew members had to be out of passenger areas at this time, so that's when I went back.

• 48:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that could be, that could also be something that I think we all might be guilty of, where you're reporting something that aligns with the policy of your job, knowing that you were still out gallivanting, doing whatever till 3:30, but you're like, oh, you know, we have to be out of there by 1, so I was out of there by 1 Royal Caribbean, please don't fire me.

• 48:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  I didn't have to go home, but I didn't stay there.

• 48:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes, so that could be part of it, where he's trying to, he's balancing a couple things here, right? Like, he's being questioned about this missing person, he's also trying to make sure he doesn't get in trouble for violating certain policies.

• 48:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but why? He doesn't work for them anymore. He's, at the time that he's talking to James Renner, he's an exorcist running a small church in Granada.

• 48:44Derrick Levasseur?

  But that might have been the statement that he had given when this occurred.

• 48:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 48:48Derrick Levasseur?

  You know, and he's trying to stay consistent.

• 48:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  But then wouldn't the FBI be like, okay, you said you went back to your cabin at 1, why does it show that you didn't get there till 3:30? This is a huge inconsistency.

• 48:56Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm sure they did. That's the problem here with the Netflix doc, and I pointed out one thing, and I'm not even saying it's malicious in nature, they show you a lot, but they can't show you everything in the three-part series, just like the photos. You would think that they would have showed all those photos, right? But they didn't. I can't tell you why they didn't, right? And there also could be more to this where FBI might have questioned Yellow about this information. But even from the documentary itself, I didn't get the indication that they believe Yellow's involved. They didn't rule him out.

• 49:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  I didn't get that indication either.

• 49:27Derrick Levasseur?

  No, the person who thinks that Yellow had something to do with it the most, and this may be compelling for some people, is his own daughter. And when you watch that interview where she calls Yellow and she talks to him about it.

• 49:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hey, we haven't gotten there yet.

• 49:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I know, I won't go too deep, but she's not as an investigator.

• 49:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's why you're not allowed to watch documentaries.

• 49:43Derrick Levasseur?

  I know, I know, I'm gonna shut up now. I'm shutting up, I'm shutting up.

• 49:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I would say the person who thinks that Yellow was involved the most is probably the Bradleys, Brad Bradley.

• 49:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Do you think they do, though?

• 49:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, yeah, I don't know, I feel like at least then.

• 49:56Derrick Levasseur?

  I think they think she was trafficked, for sure.

• 49:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 49:57Derrick Levasseur?

  But I don't know if they think it's definitely him, they just think he's suspicious, for sure.

• 50:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Derrick Levasseur?

  But no, I agree with you, they definitely don't like him, they have something, they think there's something off with him.

• 50:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know, I just don't like that there's so many holes in the timeline here that the FBI.

• 50:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's the problem.

• 50:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, the FBI will come out and be like, "We need more information," and, you know, the FBI is gonna talk to people who have these alleged sightings, but this huge time discrepancy is never addressed publicly, and that's, I think, concerning. And I feel like if we could just have the answer to that, we would have a better understanding of how the movements of Brad and Amy and Yellow on the ship that night happened. But he could have gone to somebody else's cabin, okay? He could have had a girlfriend or something, and maybe he went to somebody else's cabin, or maybe, you know, I don't know. But either way, he did not go to his cabin at 1:00 AM, according to the card swipe.

• 50:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly, and I, I tend to believe the key card information. That's the one thing we have that doesn't change over time, isn't influenced by alcohol or the conditions of the environment you're in.

• 50:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Derrick Levasseur?

  It is that somebody using his card checked into his room at 3:35, and you could question that, but I think it's extremely coincidental that 10 minutes later... Amy checked into her room.

• 51:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it makes it sound like they left each other at the same time.

• 51:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Correct. I agree. I agree with that.

• 51:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  So remember, Yellow says to James Renner, "The last time I saw her was 1 a.m., just before 1 a.m." And that's pretty much what he told CNN as well. And this is, he's talking to James Renner in 2024. So some time has passed, but now he's saying a little something different. Instead of what he told CNN, which is he got woken up by his manager at 6 a.m., he told James Renner that around 7 a.m. he was woken up by a call from his manager. And the manager asked if he'd brought a woman to his room, which was strictly prohibited by that way.

• 51:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep.

• 51:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so of course, Yellow said no, and then the manager explained that Amy was missing. So now instead of it being 6 a.m., Yellow is saying 7 a.m.

• 51:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Which would make more sense.

• 51:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  That would make more sense. Could that be because...

• 51:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe he realized, oh shit, my time was off. It was actually 7.

• 52:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or by this time, the discrepancy with his time has been noted multiple times around the internet and things. And he's like, well, I can't say 6, so I'm gonna say 7. That makes more sense.

• 52:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yep.

• 52:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Yellow said the FBI eventually came on board and began interviewing everyone who had interacted with Amy, servers, housekeepers, and musicians. He said he was questioned multiple times and may have taken one or more polygraph tests. He couldn't quite recall. How do you not remember if you took a polygraph test? Like, I can, I can understand if you took more than one and you're like, maybe I took two, or maybe I just took one, but not remembering at all whether or not you even took one? I mean, being hooked up to a polygraph machine is something I feel like that doesn't happen every day and might stick out in your memory, you know?

• 52:46Derrick Levasseur?

  You would think so.

• 52:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So Yellow is a suspicious kind of character.

• 52:51Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt. No doubt.

• 52:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  So after the initial interviews, Yellow said agents removed the equipment, the polygraph equipment that he doesn't remember whether or not they put on. And he, they, they let him go. So maybe what he's trying to say is, "I did take one, but I don't remember if I took more." And then later, an FBI agent traveled to Granada and met with him several times at a hotel. Yellow claimed that during their final meeting, this FBI agent told him, quote, "You are clear from this," end quote. And Yellow said hearing that brought some relief, which, yeah, whether he was innocent or guilty, it would bring some relief. So Yellow explained that the investigation had lasting consequences on his life and the life of his family. He said he lost work opportunities because when people searched

• 53:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  his name, it came up connected to Amy's disappearance. He said this caused him to struggle for a long time, but he eventually started his own small business, which I guess is the exorcism thing and then the church, and then he moved forward. Yellow said he has continued receiving hateful messages on Facebook, though. His wife ignores him, but his daughter, Amika, is deeply affected by them. He explained that around eight weeks before the interview with James Renner, his daughter called him upset about the messages that she was getting, and Yellow said he told her that if she wanted to deny he was her father, he would understand because he couldn't control the narrative anymore. He told Renner that he believes the truth will eventually come out, and when it does, he plans to take legal action against those making accusations. Until then, he said,

• 54:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  it was in the hands of investigators. Then in July 2025, nine months after Yellow's interview with James Renner, Netflix released that three-episode series on Amy's disappearance. And Yellow didn't participate in the series, but the documentary discussed the main theories in Amy's case, including the ones that involved him. So I want to break down these theories, starting with one of the most common ones, that Amy fell overboard by accident. Brad strongly rejected the idea in the series. He explained that the balcony railing came up to her chest, making it extremely difficult for her to fall without climbing on something. He added that Amy had always been afraid of the balcony edge and avoided it altogether. Brad said some people believed Amy climbed

• 55:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  onto the table to vomit and fell over, but he said that wasn't true either. If she had felt sick, she would have gone inside, not leaned over a railing that she was terrified of. And I know, Derek, that this is mainly your theory, right? That she maybe felt sick, stood on a table to... Throw up over the side of the balcony and I guess if I'm thinking about it that would make the most sense depending on how high the balcony edge was if you were going to throw up I guess you wouldn't want to just lean over and throw up

• 55:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Some reports say five foot six inches tall although I'm not I wasn't on the boat that seems high to me but five foot six inches tall with the reporting.

• 55:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Some people might say why would you step on something to throw up because the water's right there yeah but if you just leaned over and it was pretty tall and you threw up it would go all over the side.

• 55:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah I also tell you why you would do it because the wind's blowing you want to try to push it out as far because to be honest with you it's not a straight drop at all spots you don't want to throw up on the deck below you.

• 55:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah maybe she was afraid if she did go inside she wouldn't make it to the bathroom she's got to kind of go around a bunch of people's luggage and stuff I don't know but we can talk about that later.

• 56:04Derrick Levasseur?

  I have yeah I have some yeah we talk about it for sure I'm talking a lot right now.

• 56:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  So another theory is that Amy jumped in order to take her own life a similar idea is that she left the ship in Kurosawa on her own and started a new life supporters of these theories point to tension within her family over her sexuality but Amy's friends and family push back they told Netflix her parents loved her she had too much waiting for her at home a new job an apartment her dog even plans to see and reconnect with her ex-girlfriend who she really cared about and to them suicide or running away just doesn't fit I agree I think this is one of the least likely theories that she would take her own life.

• 56:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah there were some people in the comments or one particular comment that was like I'm just astounded that nobody's considering the possibility that she committed suicide listen is it possible of course if it wasn't then we would already know what happened but there's nothing to indicate it there's a woman and I apologize I can't remember her name you've mentioned it numerous times Stephanie that she had a very good relationship with she says they were in love she was the one with the message in the bottle she was heartbroken

• 57:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  That was her ex-girlfriend yeah.

• 57:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Over this whole thing even years later.

• 57:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Amy tried to reconnect with her for months and months and months hoping to like get her back and have another chance to make things right with her and finally right before she leaves for this cruise she gets that chance and not only that Amy had started a new life so yeah yeah Bradleys are still her family and they may not approve of her lifestyle but at this point She's like, okay, I have a job. I have my own apartment. I have my own space. So they can approve or not approve of my lifestyle, but I'm going to live my life that I've built for myself now. There'd be no reason.

• 57:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Having a good night with their brother Brad earlier, they're dancing. That's, this is not, I mean, things can change, right? On the outside, someone can look like they're in a good headspace and they can be really dealing with some demons. But this would be a complete course correction in a matter of a couple hours. And it just doesn't align with anything that was going on. Why not leave a letter?

• 57:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think she would have, yeah.

• 57:58Derrick Levasseur?

  So, so to me, it just, it just doesn't make sense. And we can't rule it out 100%, but it's at the bottom of my list for sure. Right down there with, I, I don't think the Bradleys had anything to do with this either. We had to explore it. But based on what I've seen and their behaviors, I don't believe they're involved in any way or shape or form with this. And a lot of it's due to the amount of work they've put into trying to find her. You could do the minimum and still make it look good. They've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars. They've done campaigns. They're doing these documentaries. They've done a ton of interviews. I don't believe they're involved. I don't believe it was a suicide. Those two are on the list, but at the very bottom, in my opinion. You might feel differently, but that's where I'm at.

• 58:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, if you are a hundred percent sure that she wasn't trafficked, I am a hundred percent sure that she did not take her own life.

• 58:45Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm not a hundred percent sure she wasn't trafficked. I can't be. That would be irresponsible.

• 58:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're a hundred percent sure it's not Jazz. She's not Jazz.

• 58:51Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm a hundred percent sure that's not her in that photo.

• 58:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 58:55Derrick Levasseur?

  That's where I'm at.

• 58:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, okay.

• 58:56Derrick Levasseur?

  I, I can't say in good conscience that I can prove that she wasn't, that she wasn't trafficked. But I don't believe that that's her in the photos and I don't believe that those sightings are of her either. I know people find it hard to believe, but if she had this many opportunities to tell people who she was and she was trying to get away. I think an opportu- especially if these people who were holding her captive were this careless. The opportunity would have presented itself.

• 59:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  For years. They were this careless for years.

• 59:25Derrick Levasseur?

  That's my belief. But yes, to say she's, I'm a hundred percent sure she wasn't trafficked, that would be irresponsible. I can't, I can't get there.

• 59:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's just my opinion. I'm a hundred percent sure, in my opinion, she did not take her own life, based on the fact. That she had created this whole new life.

• 59:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm 99.9% sure. How about that?

• 59:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, so.

• 59:42Derrick Levasseur?

  You good with that?

• 59:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I am.

• 59:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, okay.

• 59:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  So everyone's favorite cruise director, Kirk Dye-Wyler.

• 59:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, God, this guy aggravated me.

• 59:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  We love him, right?

• 59:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, we did not like him.

• 59:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Uh, he, I'm like Kirk, you're making yourself look suspicious at this point, but.

• 59:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Stay out of the hospitality business, buddy.

• 59:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Stay off of the documentaries.

• 59:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 59:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Um, he offered his own perspective and he told Netflix he believed Amy either fell or jumped, saying any other theory was grasping at straws. He said the Bradleys are, quote, "A family that is not facing reality, a family who cannot come to terms with the fact that their daughter is gone and they are looking for somebody to blame", end quote. I mean, once again, that can be true, but you can say it in a different way.

• 1:00:20Derrick Levasseur?

  In a better way, or just don't say it at all.

• 1:00:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, especially when you know that what you're saying in your face with your whole chest behind it is going to be on a Netflix documentary that, yes, the Bradleys are going to watch, and you sound like a dick. That's it. You sound like a dick.

• 1:00:35Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm sure Royal Caribbean was just like smacking their heads off walls, like, why?

• 1:00:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  He doesn't represent us. Kirk doesn't work for us anymore.

• 1:00:43Derrick Levasseur?

  He's gonna be banned from all future Royal Caribbean. He's just gonna try to get on a cruise in the future and be like, nope, sorry, denied.

• 1:00:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  We saw you on Netflix.

• 1:00:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, you're done.

• 1:00:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  So the other main theories involve criminal activity. One suggests Amy was killed in someone's cabin and smuggled off the ship. Another, and the one her family leans towards, is that she was abducted and forced into human trafficking, possibly by yellow and/or other crew members. The Bradleys aren't sure exactly how this might have happened, but they pointed out that there are ways to get someone off a ship without anyone noticing, which is true. We talked about this. For example, using the cruise loading area. The Bradley said the most common question they hear in relation to the trafficking theory is why Amy hasn't reached out if she's still alive, and they say they don't know. Maybe she's been threatened. Maybe she has Stockholm syndrome. They just don't have the answers. And the trafficking theory seems outlandish to some, but others think it's

• 1:01:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  completely plausible. Steve Reeves, the editor of a cruise line trade publication, told Unsolved Mysteries, quote, "There's a rumor and legend surrounding slavery in the southern Caribbean. It's not uncommon knowledge in the maritime community that young white women are considered to be very desirable to foreign procurers", end quote. He also did say rumor and legend, so.

• 1:01:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like, there's a rumor and legend, not like, hey, yeah, there's credible, you know, evidence and sources who say this is happening. It's like rumor and legend isn't really something that I would hang my hat on. Now, there's another theory I want to talk about. It wasn't part of the Netflix documentary, but Brad, who's been talking a lot, he's said it in several podcast interviews. And this one involves the Church of Scientology and its ship, The Free Winds. Now, I really don't want to talk about this. I like to stay away from these people. We've talked about it before. I don't want to talk about it. I'm sorry Scientology. This is something I have to talk about now. Please leave me alone and do not harass me. So The Free Winds is a former cruise ship staffed entirely

• 1:02:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  by the Sea Org, which is made up of Scientology's highest ranking members. The Sea Org is often compared to monks or nuns, people who devote their lives to the church, working long hours for little or no pay and living communally. The Sea Org has its own ranking system, complete with uniforms, and they have locations in multiple areas, but The Free Winds is their only ship. And its home port is in Curacao. Its main purpose is to serve as a training center for members working to reach the church's highest levels. According to Brad, on the night Amy disappeared, The Free Winds was docked at the same time as the Royal Caribbean cruise. Brad recalled seeing Amy talk with two women in naval-style uniforms that didn't match Royal Caribbean attire. The women were described as black, possibly

• 1:03:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  with accents, and dressed alike in navy skirts and light blue button-up shirts. Amy stayed with them for nearly an hour, which stood out to Brad and his parents because she had been with her family and parents, coworkers up until then. Brad recalled standing with his parents, watching and wondering why she was so engaged with these two strangers. Yeah, I don't know. I want to talk about this really quick. When, when did Brad see this? This was the night she disappeared. He saw this. Is this the first time he's saying this? Because if it's the first time he's saying this, because it's the first time I've heard of it. Why would something like this that you and your parents found so odd at the time? Why would that only be coming up now?

• 1:04:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  When you've talked about every other thing that happened to Amy, the yellow, the car chase, all the taxi cab driver in Kira Sow? You've talked about all of these things, but you failed to mention that the night she disappeared, you saw Amy talking to two strange women dressed in matching naval attire? And the Freewinds Scientology ship was there? And you've just never talked about it until 2025?

• 1:04:27Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, he may have talked about it with law enforcement and just first time he's talked about it publicly, but I'm with you. If this is the first time he's ever saying this, that would be a misstep. You should have mentioned that earlier, but I'm assuming when he spoke to law enforcement and gave his account of his last moments with Amy or what he saw, I'm sure this was part of it. Maybe finally, after hearing some stuff online, he disclosed that publicly. But only Brad could tell us that. By the way, we put the offer out there. You know, I've seen him on a lot of shows.

• 1:04:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I have so many questions for Brad. I would love if he'd, yeah.

• 1:04:59Derrick Levasseur?

  And listen, you know, we got a little bit of shit last week because we brought up the fact that the family could potentially have something to do with this. You have to explore it. I said it in the Crime Weekly News. If you had a crime that occurred with your family member, would you want the person who's gonna toss over every stone to see what's there? Or only toss over the stones that's not gonna offend anybody? Being a detective, being a good investigator, that's your responsibility to entertain all scenarios. Rule them out as quickly as you can, but that's what you are supposed to do. There are bad investigators out there who figure out in their mind what happened and only find the evidence that supports that theory. That's why a lot of cases go unsolved.

• 1:05:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's called confirmation bias. It happens a lot, actually.

• 1:05:42Derrick Levasseur?

  We see it in a lot of cases we've covered.

• 1:05:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yep, and it is bad. I don't know how else to put it. That is bad. Confirmation bias is bad. Not looking at all the potential possibilities, that is bad. So to question, did Amy's father have the wrong time? Or did he think he saw her, but he really didn't? Because it was just this quick, like, waking up thing to question whether she and Brad may have gotten into some sort of argument or dispute that night after they'd been drinking? And he saw her with a man and maybe he made an offhand comment like, oh, I thought you didn't like guys? And then she kind of gets mad, you know, no, that's, that's not.

• 1:06:18Derrick Levasseur?

  It's part of the process.

• 1:06:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it's not, and it's not, that still could have happened and Brad and his family still could have had nothing to do with it.

• 1:06:24Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right.

• 1:06:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  But would Brad have been so willing to volunteer that information? Probably not.

• 1:06:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Now, if I had a dollar for every time I've had to garner up the strength to ask a father or a mother a question that I know is going to piss them off, but it's just part of the process, it's part of the formality. Man, I'd be a rich man, but it's, it's, it's what you have to do. It's what you have to do. And most parents, although they'll be upset for a second, they'll come back and say, listen, I get it. You're just doing your job. And so we, we ask these questions, we pose them to you not to infer anything more than likely, in our opinion, the Bradleys are just as much victims in this case as anybody else. But you have to ask it. And if we're doing a three, four part series and we don't at least broach that theory, then we're not doing our job. And that's not what we do here at Crime Weekly. We go all the way.

• 1:07:14Derrick Levasseur?

  We go all the way, Stephanie.

• 1:07:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, we, we go all the way. It was kind of in my head already when we started. And, you know, I don't want to talk about it, but at the same time, it's like.

• 1:07:23Derrick Levasseur?

  People in the comments were saying it. Thank you for bringing it up, you know?

• 1:07:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  And we talked about this in Crime Weekly News, like you said. These are statistics, like a lot, a lot, it's very not, it's not as common that a, just a stranger abducts somebody or a stranger just violently attacks somebody out of nowhere. More often than not, it is somebody that person knows, somebody they're close to. That person has a motive to do something or to lie about what they did. So of course we have to look at that. So.

• 1:07:48Derrick Levasseur?

  We have to look at it. We looked at it. We're past it.

• 1:07:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So now Brad sees Amy talking to these two women who could or could not be Scientologists. And he and his parents are watching this and they're like, this is kind of odd. And then when the parents decided to head in for the night, they walked over to say good night to Amy. She responded warmly, telling them she'd see them the next day, but Brad noticed the women who she was talking to, their demeanor shifted. While they'd been animated with Amy, they grew quiet when the parents approached. They didn't introduce themselves or engage and Brad's parents found it odd. After the brief exchange, they went to bed, leaving Amy with the two women. And later, the women left and Brad and Amy went to the disco. But that's not where the story ends. Brad said that after Amy disappeared and the family got off the ship to stay in Curacao,

• 1:08:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  they asked for a priest or minister to pray with them, but the US consulate and local churches couldn't provide anyone that night. But then around midnight, two men in naval officer-style uniforms, complete with hats, brass accents, and formal details, knocked on the Bradley's hotel door. They introduced themselves as officers from the Free Winds and said they could help the family process their grief. Desperate for help, the Bradleys let them in. All right, so the alleged Scientologists are now in the Bradley's hotel room. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back and tell you what happened after that.

• 1:09:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  So these two Scientologists, at least they've introduced themselves as that. They step into the Bradley's hotel room, and Brad said the men proceeded to guide the family through a series of exercises. Each family member was asked to repeat statements like, "Now that you've lost Amy, tell us about something you haven't lost or still have." The conversation soon shifted to the men asking specific questions about Amy, her favorite snacks and drinks, whether she smoked, what brand of cigarettes she preferred, things like that. Now, at the time, the Bradleys assumed this was part of the "exercise." Looking back, Brad found it unsettling, as though they were collecting detailed information about Amy. Eventually, the men demonstrated a practice that Brad later learned was called a "nervocist."

• 1:09:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Each family member was asked to lie down on the bed while the men rubbed their backs. After around a minute, Brad's father grew uncomfortable and asked them to leave. Before they left, the men invited the Bradleys to visit the Free Winds, but the family declined. Once he was back home, Brad said he began researching Scientology, and that's when he discovered that the uniform worn by the two women that Amy was speaking to matched Sea Org attire. His theory became that the women may have been recruiters and convinced Amy to meet them again the following morning. If she boarded the Free Winds with them, he speculated, she may not have been allowed to leave. Okay, so there's a few things here that make sense to me.

• 1:10:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  And some things I don't. What I know about Scientology, which is extensive, unfortunately, this makes sense that maybe if the Scientologists were there and they heard that Amy had gone missing, they would go to the Bradley's hotel room and try to almost like offer their assistance, as in recruit them. That makes sense. It doesn't make sense that the Bradleys would not have talked about this before now publicly, because they've been very vocal. And even, you know, Brad's like, looking back, it was weird that they came in and asked all these questions about Amy, and then it was weird that they had us lay down on the bed and like give us back rubs. That was weird. That would have seemed weird then to me.

• 1:11:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  This would have been something where like in hindsight, you know, if you find all these other things like weird.

• 1:11:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I know your daughter's missing. You want a back rub?

• 1:11:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, if you found the whole yellow thing weird, and the, you know, reports of Amy being in Curacao and things like that, if you found that stuff weird, would you not have found this weird? Just some randos show up at your door and start asking you detailed questions about your daughter who's missing, and then have you lay down on the bed so they can rub your back? That would have been weird then. I feel like they, the Bradleys have never hesitated to talk publicly about what they feel, what they believe, what their theories are, what their suspicions are. But this fell through the cracks? They never talked about it? Now, if Amy had been talking to two women from Scientology, and these two women had convinced her, hey, come on our boat, and maybe, you know, see what we're all about, like, we have adventures. Yeah, they, I mean, they had some good marketing, the Sea Org. They, they promised a whole bunch of things,

• 1:12:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  like adventure, and kind of like the military does, you get to see the world and be a part of something, and that may have appealed to Amy. If she did join in and sign this like 1,000 year contract that Sea Org members sign, yes, she probably would not have been able to leave. So it is a potential theory, I guess, if this is true. If what Brad is saying is true, and this actually happened, this is a strong theory to me. I'm sorry, it is. Knowing what I know about Scientology, this is a strong theory.

• 1:12:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I'll be candid, I don't think this is possible. I think this is a nothing burger. I think it's a red herring. I think it's something- Where from the Bradley's perspective, they're probably just trying to make sure every little detail that they have, they put out there at one point, even though it's later in the game, but they're like, hey, maybe we say something that jogs someone's memory and starts a new lead that there wasn't before. So we just want to make sure that we put everything out there regardless of how trivial it may be. And I think that's what this is. I don't think there was, and I know Scientology exists and I had, we have a funny story with that.

• 1:13:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's not funny to me. Yeah, it's not funny.

• 1:13:11Derrick Levasseur?

  It wasn't funny to me either at the time, but I don't think that she was taken by this group and I don't think that they were, you know, doing some counterintelligence to try to recruit them. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm just saying it's not on my radar. And you guys can come at me in the comments for that, for not really spending too much time on it. I think there are scenarios as an investigator that are much more plausible than this.

• 1:13:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  So do you think though, that Sea Org was docked there at the same time? And that Scientology went to the Bradley's hotel room and, and talked to them and asked questions about Amy and, and offered back rubs? Do you think that is true?

• 1:13:45Derrick Levasseur?

  I absolutely think it's true. What I think happened is that the Royal Caribbean team said, we don't have anybody available, any ministers or whatever.

• 1:13:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, exactly. And Scientology was like, hey, this is our, this is our chance to.

• 1:13:55Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know what their motive was, but I do think that maybe word got around or they had reached out to some colleagues Royal Caribbean and said, hey, the free wins, do you have anybody available? And they said, yeah, we do actually. We'll send them over. And that's what happened. I think it's as simple as it sounds. I think their methods are a little unorthodox with the back rubs and stuff, but that's what I think happened. I don't think Brad or the family is making this up.

• 1:14:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. Well, I mean, we haven't heard from the, the family, as in like the parents about this. It's just Brad saying that. Yeah.

• 1:14:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, even more of a reason why I wouldn't make it up because the, the, her, his parents would say, why would you say that? That didn't happen.

• 1:14:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. It's weird. And it's a weird thing to me. Scientologists are talking to you. They're asking questions or giving back rubs and you never mentioned this.

• 1:14:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Do you want to go to Crime Con this year and not have this weird occasion again? Or do you want to keep talking about this?

• 1:14:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Listen.

• 1:14:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, listen, you know, I'm trying to help you out here.

• 1:14:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, so.

• 1:14:45Derrick Levasseur?

  I want to be able to do my meet and greet without some random photographer coming up to me and just making this weird comment like I'm not going to be here tomorrow because I know you. All right.

• 1:14:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. I, I just, I know enough about Scientology where I feel like, yeah, they might do some shit like this. I don't know, but. They've been known, they've been known to hold.

• 1:15:03Derrick Levasseur?

  This could be worse time. Crime Con, couple of weeks.

• 1:15:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Allegedly, they've been known to hold people hostage against their will and not let them leave. It's a cult. It's a cult.

• 1:15:11Derrick Levasseur?

  I will be at the booth down the corridor from Stephanie. We will not be together. We're going to be separated.

• 1:15:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, I didn't know you were scared of ghosts and Scientologists.

• 1:15:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Listen, did I seem scared that day?

• 1:15:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 1:15:22Derrick Levasseur?

  You're lying.

• 1:15:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  You looked at me, you were like, you're not talking about this anymore. Done. We're done.

• 1:15:26Derrick Levasseur?

  But I said it in a way where you're not talking about this anymore. You're done.

• 1:15:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Because I was looking out for you, but did I walk away when the guy came up to you? Or was I standing right there by your side?

• 1:15:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's just about pride, not fear.

• 1:15:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, my God. Well, whatever it is, I still stood there.

• 1:15:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, well.

• 1:15:38Derrick Levasseur?

  I call it courageous.

• 1:15:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, just keep going.

• 1:15:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Courageous for Brad to even talk about if it actually happened, especially since he's done his research.

• 1:15:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Trying to be helpful. I honestly think that all these years later, he's just trying to make sure that if he doesn't find his sister, it's not because he didn't say something that he should have. And even though at the time it didn't seem important, because they haven't found her, all these years later, he's grasping at straws. He's trying to put everything out there to say, hey, maybe there's something.

• 1:16:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know. I just feel like that would have stood out regardless, like super weird. If all these other things are standing out, this would have. But anyway, over time, Brad shared his theory with multiple people knowledgeable about Scientology. And they told him it was extremely unlikely. Joining the C org is a lengthy process involving auditing, interviews, and security checks, not something that happens overnight. And to their knowledge, there were no cases of anyone being abducted directly onto the free ones. That's not actually, that's not actually true. There are some people who say that that happened, but okay, I'm not gonna talk about it.

• 1:16:44Derrick Levasseur?

  No, go for it. Why as well now?

• 1:16:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, because, because once again, it's just hearsay, people talking, this happened, that happened, who knows?

• 1:16:51Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't necessarily think that what is what happened. However, back to the argument I made earlier, you have to explore every scenario. If you're not, then you're not doing your job. So even though it may be unlikely, in some people's opinions, doesn't mean it's impossible. So you have to talk about it. And we just did. So pause the video. Let me know if you're on board with Team Stephanie.

• 1:17:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  I will also say, I'm not saying this happened, but I will also say one more thing. I will say one more thing. Scientology historically evades law enforcement. Okay? Whether they've got people paid off, whether they got people paid, like LAPD, the Hollywood district is completely kind of in their pocket, in my opinion. So whether they're paying people off, or it's just because it's just too much trouble to deal with these people, law enforcement kind of just does not mess with Scientology, even though there's plenty of things there that could and should be looked at. So when you have all these gaps and you're like, hey, why is the FBI not like pursuing this or that, or the jawbone? They could just be like, because the FBI has also largely dismissed this possibility. Okay? But they could just be like, yeah, they could just be like, we don't, we cannot

• 1:17:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  deal with this. Like, we cannot deal with this. Amy Bradley is a grown woman, and if she got on that boat and signed a 4,000 year contract, we can't do anything about it. Just like when Shalane Miscavige was missing for, you know, multiple years and law enforcement didn't really do anything about that. So that's all I'm saying. Okay?

• 1:18:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay. Well, just to make sure you guys are aware, for Crime Con this year, Stephanie will be at 2:30 in booth number four for her meet and greet. I will be at the opposite end of the area in my own booth. So please, don't take me out.

• 1:18:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Fine, put it all on me. So anyways.

• 1:18:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, I'll be there right with you. I know they're gonna shoot you and they're gonna hit me instead.

• 1:18:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  They're not gonna shoot me. They'll just threaten me some more. Um, yeah.

• 1:18:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Allegedly.

• 1:18:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, so Brad clearly believes that this is a potential theory and it deserves more attention. He continues to bring it up. So, we talked about it. There we go.

• 1:18:56Derrick Levasseur?

  We talked about it. We covered it. Add it to the list.

• 1:18:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Let's go back to the Netflix documentary. Beyond covering theories, the series shared new information that hadn't been made public before, including, once again, Amy's sexuality and interviews with her two ex-girlfriends. Now, two other major revelations stood out. The first was that around family birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays, an IP address from Curacao or Barbados accesses the Amy Bradley is missing website and stays for around 45 minutes before exiting. Now, the family wonders, who is this? Could it be Amy herself? The FBI told Netflix it was possible, but they said they've struggled to trace the addresses further since they're outside of US jurisdiction. This is insane to me.

• 1:19:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  First of all, it could be somebody using a VPN, just pretending to be in that area and messing with you guys.

• 1:19:44Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right.

• 1:19:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. It could be, especially, you know, if they think somebody's watching. And of course, yes, the FBI would have trouble tracing this address, especially if it's a VPN, because there's no actual physical place to trace it to. There's somebody using a VPN, acting like they're in Curacao or Barbados and going to the website. Just, it could be jazz, man. Who knows?

• 1:20:04Derrick Levasseur?

  I think it's something that you have to run with. You have to see if there's anything there, any legitimacy to it, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my, I wouldn't put too much stock behind it. I think a lot of explanations could be put here that would explain why this is occurring, and many of them do not involve Amy being at the center of it. There's a lot of people who know the story in Curacao. There's a lot of people who know the story in the surrounding islands. People are wondering about it. As you said, there's a lot of people who have taken an interest in this or may wanna pretend that they're in Curacao because they're sick individuals and they wanna add to the narrative to create another layer to it. There's so many explanations that wouldn't make sense, but would explain it perfectly.

• 1:20:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  It wouldn't make sense that Amy was accessing that website if she, if she didn't want to be missing and stay missing.

• 1:20:53Derrick Levasseur?

  If she was being held captive. She wouldn't have access to the internet where she would be going on to this website looking at herself.

• 1:20:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or even you could say, oh, they've eased up their...

• 1:21:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Then she would come home.

• 1:21:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Then she would call somebody, she would use the internet to send you a Facebook message or something, yeah.

• 1:21:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes, yes, it's ridiculous. I'm sorry, we're open to exploring all things here, come on, come on. It can't be both.

• 1:21:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think it's somebody messing with them, honestly, unfortunately.

• 1:21:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Here's the thing, though, if you believe she left the boat, you have to believe one of two things. She left the boat voluntarily, and she doesn't want to be found, or she's being held against her will. And if she's being held against her will, she doesn't have internet access, and in my opinion, she's not out there talking to all the people on the island telling them that she's Amy Bradley. That's just my opinion, one or the other. And if she's out there because she wants to be out there, she's also not going to be telling people she's Amy Bradley.

• 1:21:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Derrick Levasseur?

  That's where I'm at on that, that's, you know, we're getting near the end of this episode, it's time to start, you know, dialing it in. If she's on the island, she's not telling people who she is. Or she's not going to have the opportunity to tell people who she is.

• 1:21:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, yes. Both things probably are, cannot be true at once, yeah.

• 1:22:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Not true.

• 1:22:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so, there's another revelation, and we are going to talk about that, but we're going to take our last break really quick. Okay, we're back. So the second revelation we learned in the Netflix documentary came from Yellow's daughter, Amika. She told Netflix that when Amy disappeared, her mother was pregnant with her. Her parents divorced when she was still a toddler, but she stayed close to her dad. When Amika got older, her mother told her, quote, "Something happened on a cruise ship your dad was on, and if you go research his name, you'll probably find this out about him," end quote. So, Amika said her mom told her when Yellow came home from his months-long stint on the ship, Amy vanished from, he was suddenly mean and dismissive towards her, he also had a

• 1:22:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  bag with him, and when her mother looked inside, she found photographs of white women. Amika told Netflix she's asked her father about Amy multiple times, but his reactions have always been unsettling. He grows upset, and she feels like his story is missing pieces. She was so suspicious of her dad that in 2017, she contacted the Bradleys herself. filming for Netflix, Amika even called her father directly. Yellow told her he didn't mind the questions, but insisted he had nothing to do with Amy's disappearance. He repeated the story he told James Renner and said the photographs were simply pictures taken with fans. Amika didn't seem to believe this response and Yellow eventually hung up the phone. After the documentary aired, Brad went on several podcasts to share details that weren't included.

• 1:23:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  He expressed frustration with the FBI, saying they've repeatedly told the family, we don't have any evidence she left the room, which is interesting to me, actually.

• 1:23:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep.

• 1:23:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Brad points out that they don't have any evidence that she didn't either. He also doesn't believe investigators have truly explored every angle. One of his biggest concerns is the account from Crystal and Lori. Remember, those are the two women who said they saw Amy with Yellow in the glass elevator between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. The FBI told Netflix they couldn't corroborate their sightings because the women hadn't used a key card to re-enter their room. One of their mothers had let them in.

• 1:24:00Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right.

• 1:24:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  So basically, they couldn't tell if they had gone into their rooms after this 5:30 to 6:00 a.m. sighting, or maybe the sighting had happened earlier and they were back in their room.

• 1:24:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe around 3:45.

• 1:24:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and they were back in the room by 5:00, so it couldn't have possibly been between.

• 1:24:13Derrick Levasseur?

  3:45 and 5:30 is not that big of a difference when you've been drinking all night and you're tired.

• 1:24:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  So they can't corroborate their, the timing of their sighting at least.

• 1:24:21Derrick Levasseur?

  And that's why the FBI is saying they have no confirmation that she left the room afterwards. This is why.

• 1:24:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, Brad said the mother confirmed to the family that she was the one who opened the door for them and that she did so at a time consistent with their statements. Despite this, the FBI never interviewed her and Brad believes this was a missed opportunity as the mother could have strengthened their timeline. But she only strengthened the timeline to the Bradley family. She did not strengthen the timeline to the FBI. And would it have strengthened the timeline? Like, how would she have known exactly what time it was? Once again, if the FBI can't have this key card swipe data, they can't confirm whether that's actually the time or not. So in his podcast interviews, Brad has said that despite the family's frustrations with the investigation, they are grateful for the renewed attention the Netflix series has brought to Amy's case.

• 1:25:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  He explained that it has given the case the most significant exposure it has ever received. He admitted that hope can fade during long stretches without developments, but he said the series reignited his optimism. Brad expressed hope that someone who knows the truth may now come forward, not just because of the awareness, but because they can see the family's deep love for Amy. And whether it leads to finding Amy herself or to identifying those responsible for her disappearance, Brad said they would be grateful for any answers. He said, "The not knowing is excruciating," but he believes it also has allowed them to hold on to hope. And I want to talk about that in a minute because we know they're they're holding on to hope. What do you make of Yellow's daughter's statements?

• 1:25:51Derrick Levasseur?

  If you guys go and watch the Netflix series, and again, I want to make it perfectly clear, we're not dogging it at all. It was a good series. It's definitely worth the watch. But she actually calls Yellow, like while she's being interviewed by Netflix. And, you know, listen, he's done some suspicious stuff. He's got these photos of all these white women and the daughter is curious about that and has questions about it. But the daughter, just because she's his daughter, doesn't mean that she's an authority on who Yellow is. If anything, she's being told what her mother told her and, you know, that can go a lot of different ways.

• 1:26:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, probably not. Probably doesn't sound like the best relationship that they have.

• 1:26:26Derrick Levasseur?

  People who say like, "Oh, his daughter would know more than..." No, that's not necessarily true. I can speak as a as a son to a father who I don't know, right? I don't know who he is and what he's about. And I know of him and I had a short relationship with him and it didn't work out. So I don't know him, know him. And that's probably the case here. Although I will say, if you go back and watch the interview, it seems like Yellow is frustrated during the interview. He doesn't, I don't even know if he knows he's being recorded. I don't think he does. It might be a one-party state because it doesn't sound like she says, "You're being recorded." It just sounds like she's, he's talking to his daughter and he's like, "Listen, I did some things. I was dancing at clubs. I was younger and I was this kid from Granada. And, you know, they're asking me questions about this woman. They think I'm responsible for it.

• 1:27:10Derrick Levasseur?

  I had nothing to do with her." And then she's like, "Well, why were you, why are people saying they saw you on the beach with her?" He's like, "What beach? What? I don't even like the beach. What beach are you talking about?" Like...

• 1:27:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  It kind of sounds like he's fed up.

• 1:27:21Derrick Levasseur?

  He's over it. And his life is, if he's not responsible, his life has been forever changed because of it. So you can understand the frustration. And two things can be true. He can be a little bit of a scumbag, the way he's acting on the boat, no doubt about it. He could be a bad person. It still doesn't mean that he's responsible for this.

• 1:27:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and I don't know everything about Amika's life, um, how things happened, but she did say that she, her mother was pregnant with her when Amy went missing and she was a toddler when her parents divorced. And she does say, I stayed close with my father after, but that could mean a variety of things. That doesn't mean she was

• 1:27:54Derrick Levasseur?

  It seemed like they were pretty close.

• 1:27:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but it doesn't mean she's living with him, seeing him every day, or as you said, really knowing who he is. They could be communicating through text and phone calls and things like that, trying to stay as close as you can in a long distance, you know, not seeing each other every day situation, but.

• 1:28:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Stephanie, even if she was living under the same roof with him, Kerry Rossin was living with BTK.

• 1:28:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Derrick Levasseur?

  And she didn't know it.

• 1:28:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Right? So the, the version that you know of your parents is the version they want you to know, it doesn't mean that she has information that's going to help solve the case. I think she's still worth listening to. As an investigator would absolutely want to hear her opinion. But to me, when I listened to that phone call, nothing stood out to me. He could have said, I'm not talking about this. I don't want to talk about it. It's over with.

• 1:28:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  It seems like it's something she's asked him about multiple times.

• 1:28:40Derrick Levasseur?

  He, he, yes, yes.

• 1:28:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he's like, I have nothing new. I have nothing new to tell you.

• 1:28:44Derrick Levasseur?

  And she has the right to ask him those questions, by the way. But he, it seems like he's like, babe, I don't know what to tell you. I don't have much to say other than what I've already told you. I didn't do anything to this woman. I feel, and he even said, I felt bad for the family, all this stuff.

• 1:28:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I also think she's like, oh, I was suspicious of him. I've been suspicious of him. It sounds like what her basis of being suspicious of him is, is the mother's kind of recollection and, you know,

• 1:29:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Also what she's hearing online.

• 1:29:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Also what, what she's hearing online. So some people may say, well, if that's his daughter and they're close, why would she throw him under the bus like this? We don't know her either. There could be multiple reasons.

• 1:29:19Derrick Levasseur?

  She's curious. She's curious. She's concerned. You can tell there's a genuine concern there that he, he might not be someone that he's portraying himself to be.

• 1:29:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  And, and I will say with the, with the recent years of stories of people who, you know, killers who have had families and hidden this from the families, even, um, what's the, what's the guy who just got arrested? I keep forgetting. Uh, Hugh, Hugherman, right?

• 1:29:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Rex Hugherman.

• 1:29:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Rex Hugherman. And then, like you said, BTK and a lot of cases.

• 1:29:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Kerry spoke about it. You know, I mean, you could live under the same roof. And not know who a person is.

• 1:29:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, a lot of cases who've come out who that might kind of make this seem like it's more prevalent than it is like you could just be the daughter of a serial killer or a murderer and not know and so you're concerned about it but.

• 1:30:03Derrick Levasseur?

  My point, my point about Amika is she doesn't have any firsthand knowledge. Like you said, she was young. She's getting a lot of this from the Netflix doc and also from, well, at the time, not the Netflix doc because she did this interview for it, but internet, people online, her mother.

• 1:30:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Yellow said that people were reaching out to her, right? They were sending him harassing messages, but also messaging her once they found out that she was his daughter and there, there was probably a plethora of things that these people said that stuck with her of like, oh my God, like that does sound plausible. That does sound like, you know, suspicious. So let me kind of dig into this. I don't know, but basically for years, Amy's family, Brad, Ron and Iva have shared an unshakable gut feeling that Amy is still alive and irrationally they know how unlikely that may seem. But Brad emphasized that the odds are not zero and that's enough to keep going and I have to respect that.

• 1:30:55Derrick Levasseur?

  I respect that as well.

• 1:30:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  If it was my family member, I would do the same unless I had physical proof, tangible proof that this person was no longer with us, I would continue looking for them. To this day, Iva and Ron still maintain a command center filled with files on Amy's case. They continue speaking with anyone who might help and chase down every lead that comes their way. And Iva told Netflix that while they've lost much of their lives searching for Amy, they will never stop until they bring her home. So now we can talk about our final thoughts.

• 1:31:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I'll go first because I think everyone knows where I'm going to land on this one, especially if you watch Detective Perspective. But I'll expand on some of the things that I had said in the episode. So let's just run down it real quick. What we know. What we know for sure. We know that Amy was back in her room by 3:45. She used her key card and Brad and Ron and Iva all confirmed that she was back in her room. Brad and Amy were out on the balcony and at one point. According to Brad, Amy said, quote, "I don't feel good. I'm going to sleep out here." Let me say that again. "I don't feel good. I'm going to stay out here."

• 1:32:07Derrick Levasseur?

  So Brad says, "I'll go to bed and, you know, I'll see you in the morning." So Amy's out on the deck. She's obviously on the balcony, whatever you want to call it. She's obviously had, uh, they said, how many beers was it? Light beers? Six or seven light beers, maybe more?

• 1:32:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not more than that, no.

• 1:32:21Derrick Levasseur?

  So she had a bunch of light beers?

• 1:32:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  I thought it was five or six.

• 1:32:24Derrick Levasseur?

  That was what was reported. Could have been more, could have been less, whatever it was. It's a lot of beer. You know, she's definitely intoxicated, uh, not sleeping well, maybe a little motion sickness. She's out on the deck, okay? And I'm not even going to speculate at this point, but according to Ron, he wakes up at 5:30. He sees Amy's legs. The slider door is shut. He wakes up a half hour later for some unknown reason. Was it a noise? Did he hear? What happened that startled him and caused him to wake up? Or did he just wake up a half hour later for no reason? Now the balcony door is open. Amy is gone. Her cigarettes are gone. But her sandals are still in the room. The ones she was wearing when she came up are still there. So could she have put on other footwear? Sure.

• 1:33:08Derrick Levasseur?

  At that point, we fast forward to Yellow potentially being in his room at 7:00. And, you know, everything kind of happens after that. We also have to mention that the next day or whenever it was, they go into that room and there's a table pushed up against the railing. So you have everything I just said. That is not speculation. That's all fact, plus the table being pushed up against it. Okay? Before we get more into that, I want to talk about the sightings. And I'm not going to go too in-depth here. You went in-depth. I've talked about it. We've all discussed it. For me, I think the majority of these sightings, especially the ones where they communicated with a person who described themselves as Amy, was Jass, AKA Susan. I think she was doing it for money.

• 1:33:52Derrick Levasseur?

  And I think you can actually confirm that through what she was saying to the one military guy where she's like, "Oh, I just need 200 bucks and I can get out of here." I think she was doing it as a way to garner up more money because in the sick and twisted minds of some of these guys, that would actually turn them on more. If she's like some captive American woman that they can sleep with. I completely agree. Sickos. And she was aware of it, and she probably made a lot of money off of it, and she was playing up to it. I think she was probably intentionally making herself look like that, maybe throwing on a little bit of a, an accent to try to sound more southern. I think she was doing the whole deal. And it's not just me speculating. There was even an interview, I want to say it might have been with James Renner, where he, where he spoke to a woman who knew this person. This isn't some just fictitious person we're making

• 1:34:36Derrick Levasseur?

  up. I'll get to her in a minute, but to me, those two things, right? The fact that the FBI is saying we have no evidence she ever left her room. The fact that we haven't been able to corroborate any of the witness testimony for that morning. There's always a problem, right? The key card, they didn't use it. Mom let them in. There's nothing strong there, right? We have no evidence she left the room, but what we do have is evidence that if she left the room, she left the room without her sandals, she left the room without telling anyone, and she supposedly went to meet up with someone who she didn't have any communication with, other than maybe at the bar the night before. But instead of staying out with them, she decided to go back to the room, hang out with Brad, and then pretend like she was

• 1:35:20Derrick Levasseur?

  sleeping, and then wake up, and then go see this person, or just go walk around the ship. Possible, just seems very convoluted to me. What I see here is exactly what it looks like. Amy was not feeling well. She was out on the balcony. And at some point, probably right around 5:30 a.m., she wakes up. Maybe she opens the balcony door for a second to look inside. Maybe she even goes inside for a second. I don't know. For one reason or another, she ends up back out on the balcony. She doesn't feel well, and anybody who's been sick knows that when it hits you, it hits you. 10 feet away from the bathroom is 10 feet too far. Especially when you have a balcony right in front of you.

• 1:36:03Derrick Levasseur?

  If the reports are correct that this balcony was five foot, six inches tall or something around there, she was tiny, she would have needed to get some leverage to get over the side to make sure that she didn't throw up on herself or on the balcony below her. If you've been on a cruise ship, all of these railings are kind of like smooth and rounded. You can almost like run your hand over them. It would be very easy if you were not in the best condition because you had a couple of drinks, your equilibrium's a little off, you already have motion sickness where you lean over and you just go a little bit too far. And at that height, under the, in that condition, physically, you know, having a couple of drinks from that far of a distance, you probably wouldn't survive the fall anyways, but even if you did, you wouldn't be able to swim to shore. And more

• 1:36:48Derrick Levasseur?

  than likely, that's what happened to Amy. Now, I will say this, I'm not 100% certain that's what happened. It's more of a spectrum for me. And where I, I, I land with accidental at the top, I have foul play on the boat. Second, what do I mean by that? If she did leave her room in her bare feet, by the way, if she did leave her room and happened to meet up with someone, and I'm not even thinking it was a premeditated meetup, just walking around, getting some air, maybe a coffee, like we talked about, someone sees her alone, they have malicious intentions, it could have been yellow, could have been someone else, something goes south, and she's brought to a

• 1:37:28Derrick Levasseur?

  room, something happens, and she's either thrown overboard, or put into a suitcase and brought off the boat, and nobody ever finds her. The third would be trafficked, where something was premeditated, they get her in an area, they get her off the boat, and this all happens, but to me, there's nothing to support that. If it happened, they did it basically perfectly, because I don't believe these sightings were Amy, even if she was trafficked. I don't believe those sightings are connected to her. And then finally, at the very, very bottom, you have suicide, where maybe there was something that we just didn't know, and the accounts of the beha- of the mental place that she was in are not accurate, that she felt like the only option was to end her life in the middle of the morning, when she just had a great night with her friends and family.

• 1:38:13Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't think it's a possibility, but I would, it would be professionally responsible to, to rule it out definitively. So yes, just to be really clear here, I don't think Amy was the type of person that would have been targeted for trafficking. As I said in the episode, they usually looked for someone who's disenfranchised, who doesn't have a lot of ties, who doesn't have a lot of people who are going to care about the fact that they're missing. They usually don't target women on a cruise ship when they know that they're probably not there alone and people are going to be looking for them. And if they did target her and they did capture her, they sure as hell wouldn't have her on a website and they sure as hell wouldn't be allowing her to walk around a beach. So I think the most likely scenario is the one that's the most reasonable here. And that is that

• 1:38:57Derrick Levasseur?

  she went into the water that day and that's why we haven't found her. So where do we go from here? We have to analyze the jawbone and we absolutely have to find Jazz slash Susan. She could answer a lot of questions for us because if she admits to being this person that a lot of these people saw on the island and communicated with, then the possibility that she ever got off the boat becomes that much less likely. But that's what, that's where I would be going with this case.

• 1:39:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. So usually I have like a gut instinct and I'm leaning very drastically one way more than the other. I'm just not for this case. I'm really just not. Um, I don't believe that she was trafficked, but it's possible. I just don't, I don't think like, like you said, and like many other people have said, it's too risky for these people to take somebody who clearly has a loving family, who's going to do anything to get them back. Okay. So let's talk about her falling accidentally. Now you said something like, uh, you know, she left without her shoes. Well, her family did specifically say they don't know if she put on another pair of shoes because they don't really know everything that she brought.

• 1:40:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Say what you just said there again.

• 1:40:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  They don't know if she put on another pair of shoes because they don't know everything that she brought.

• 1:40:16Derrick Levasseur?

  They didn't say she lea- that's my point, right? It's all speculative, like, we don't know if she could have left with those shoes. They didn't say, oh, you know what? She had a pair of Crocs that were in the room that were missing.

• 1:40:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  They don't, they don't know. So it's possible that she did leave the room, put on a different pair of shoes. There's evidence that she changed after coming back from the club because the shirt she was wearing at the club was found hanging over a chair in the cabin. So if she changed her shirt, it's possible that she could have changed her shoes and just put something more casual on.

• 1:40:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Possible. I can, I, I concede that, yeah.

• 1:40:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  So then I'm thinking, all right, if she accidentally fell off the balcony, wouldn't somebody have heard her, like, yelling, you know? But then I'm like, well, if, if she was conscious, right? Because we do know that water from heights of above 20 feet can almost feel like hitting concrete because of the surface tension, body velocity. So falling from 10 to 20 feet underwater like that can cause injuries, bruises, broken bones, lacerations. Falling from 50 plus feet, like from the upper decks, would greatly increase the risk of being unconscious, internal injuries, even death, especially if that person lands awkwardly or hits on their way down some external structures, like poking off the ship.

• 1:41:27Derrick Levasseur?

  There's been some reports that maybe she hit one of the safety boats, the, the, the rescue boats. They're big yellow boats are off the side. It's possible. I've seen some reports that that would have been in her way.

• 1:41:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes. So then I looked into, well, how common is it? You know, because there's so many safety measures put on these boats specifically so people don't accidentally fall. So how common is it for somebody to just accidentally fall off a boat? And the Cruise Lines International Association and other maritime safety organizations estimate that overboard accidents happen at a rate of roughly one in every 15 million passengers per, per year. So between the years 2000 and 2018, there was about 338 confirmed overboard incidents worldwide, which averages to roughly 18 per year across the entire cruise industry. So not unheard of, but this is also going to kind of be a blanket term. This is going to be accidental falls, suicide or intentional acts, criminal acts,

• 1:42:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  which is, you know, foul play, an assault where someone's pushed overboard, as well as environmental hazards like rough seas, high winds, unexpected ship movements. These can contribute to accidental falls. Somebody who has alcohol in them, maybe they slip on something. So then I'm looking at the ship and it's like, yes, these balconies are intentionally designed to prevent falls. Is there a part of the boat that's not so safe? And then I found the promenade deck. So the promenade deck, when I look at the pictures, it doesn't look as safe. So there's, it's enclosed. Some parts of it are enclosed, shops, restaurants, open air sections. Some sections do have glass railings, but the exterior

• 1:43:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  parts have standard metal railings around 42 to 48 inches tall. And the deck circles the ship, which is going to give passengers a 360 view of the ship in open air areas. It's called the promenade deck because people like to walk there because it's great views. She could have gone up there just to get some air because she's not feeling good, or just to get a nice view of them pulling up to carousel. And the ship, as it's pulling in and docking, could have done an unexpected movement. So maybe she was leaning over and the ship jolted, or she slipped or something. It would be a lot easier for her to fall over on the promenade deck based on those just standard metal railings that are not very enclosing at all. They look much less safe than the balconies in the cabins. So

• 1:43:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  that could have happened. I do believe that an accidental fall is the most likely thing to have happened. Now, the next thing would be, there was an altercation of some kind with someone on this ship, and she was pushed over, or drugged, assaulted, killed, and then thrown over. Those are possible options. We just, we don't really have a ton of evidence to support that. But I find it more likely that something happened on the boat, whether it was an accidental fall or foul play, than she was smuggled off the ship and she's just being, you know, walked around the Caribbean by handlers for the world to see. That is my final thoughts. But I literally am usually leaning very heavily in one direction more

• 1:44:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  than others. I'm not here. It's it's so undefined and I don't like it, but I don't I don't think she took her own life. No, absolutely not. Yeah.

• 1:44:44Derrick Levasseur?

  No, I don't either. I don't either. I mean, listen, there's a lot of questions and it's a really rare set of circumstances, which is why people are drawn to this case, which is why the Bradleys are feeling lost and confused because there's just this gap in time where they just can't account for what what transpired and nobody can. And after all these years, you're not going to be able to couple that with the fact that you have some asshole who looks like Amy on the island, walking around pretending pretending to be her. You know, and so that doesn't help, right? That doesn't help them heal. And, you know, I'm going to speak for myself and maybe the Bradleys will hear this, maybe they won't. I know that's not going to change anything for them.

• 1:45:27Derrick Levasseur?

  If this were my daughter and I was faced with this situation, obviously, the unknown is the worst thing. And I don't think at this point, it's very unlikely they're ever going to get a definitive answer as to what happened to Amy, right? I hope they do. I hope they do. But if they don't, there's a strong possibility that that she didn't suffer, that she wasn't trafficked, she wasn't held against her will, she wasn't forced to do things that she didn't want to do, that this was just an unfortunate set of circumstances and whatever happened to her happened to her in a couple of seconds and it was over. And I know that's not going to make you feel any better. But to me as a father, if I had one of two options, that's the one that I would choose.

• 1:46:10Derrick Levasseur?

  And that's the one that I would choose to believe because thinking that my daughter is out there being held against her will, doing things that she she doesn't want to do would drive me insane and I'm sure it's driving them insane. So I hope even though we explore different things, the Bradleys, if they happen to hear or see this, know that we support you 100%. And if there's anything that we can do to help you. I don't care what it is, we'll be there to help you. We want answers as well. I've already thought about how I could find this woman, Susan.

• 1:46:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  We could go there.

• 1:46:41Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, listen, if you want to take a cruise, we'll go.

• 1:46:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take a cruise, but we can go there.

• 1:46:45Derrick Levasseur?

  But I, you know, anything we can do to help, we're there because there's no skin in the game for us, just like the FBI. We want answers for your family. Unfortunately, there's a lot of holes right now and we just can't fill them. Um, the jawbone would be something worth exploring if it hasn't been explored already. I know the witnesses who, like the military guy, he took a polygraph test. He passed it. I believe he was telling the truth. I believe the woman he met did say she was Amy Bradley. I just don't believe it was Amy. And even when he was asked, was he sure it was Amy? He was like, uh, uh, yeah, I mean, it looked like her. Yeah, we know. We know there's someone who looks like her. So, and, and, and that's the other thing, and I didn't hit it really hard at the end of my conclusion, but

• 1:47:28Derrick Levasseur?

  let's not forget the photos. The big thing in the Netflix doc was that photo. And I feel, although I'm not confident what happened to her, I feel that I proved well beyond a reasonable doubt. In a court of law, if I presented that, I think it would, I think it would stick. I think that would be a compelling argument for the jury, that that was not Amy Bradley. And I don't think saying, oh, the angle of that one photo that we showed doesn't show where the tattoos would be because that is absolutely incorrect.

• 1:47:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  When those other photos are so readily available, I don't think there's any excuse for that.

• 1:47:59Derrick Levasseur?

  No, no. So I, I don't think those photos are her. So if you take that out of the equation and then you start to question the witness accounts, you really have no, and this is what FBI said, not me, you have no evidence she ever left her room.

• 1:48:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I will say, like, listen, we have explored many options and neither you or I believe that trafficking is at the top of our list. But does that mean we're going to be dicks like Kirk Dye Wyler and be like, this family just needs to accept what happened here? No, because I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't. Like, I encourage them to continue pursuing. We all want to know.

• 1:48:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Netflix money.

• 1:48:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, we all want to know what happened. Yeah. And absolutely don't just get over it and accept. Until there's physical proof that my child is gone, I'm never going to accept that, which is horrifying and torturous for this family, but. We can't just expect them to be like, well, I guess she's just gone and you know, that's it. No, of course not. They're gonna hang on to every shred of hope that comes their way.

• 1:48:56Derrick Levasseur?

  As they should.

• 1:48:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which is why it's, it's extra diabolical for anybody to take advantage of them. So if somebody's signing in from a VPN pretending to look at the Amy Bradley website from Curacao, you're an asshole. Yeah, it's just, it's bad. This, uh, like you said, Susan, Susan, from where is she from? Tampa?

• 1:49:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Daytona, allegedly.

• 1:49:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, Susan from Daytona? Asshole, you know, and, and everyone's out for themselves and, and nobody's gonna care about Amy as much as her family does. But I'd like to think that there's a good amount of us in the true crime community that care about Amy's family finding out what happened. And by, you know, default, we find out what happened.

• 1:49:31Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree.

• 1:49:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  So that's where I land.

• 1:49:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Invitation, I know we're done with this series, open invitation for Brad, even if it's just to use our platform to spread a certain message that you want to get out there. Because we talk so much about this, we owe that to you and your family. And even if we're on to another series and you reach out, we'll make it happen.

• 1:49:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:50Derrick Levasseur?

  We'll make it happen. We'll do a whole crime weekly news or crime weekly on it and you can, we can have the floor and we can ask some difficult questions. We can push, we can push each other and see what we come up with. But, um, you know, even if that's not the case, because like I said, he's done a lot of interviews, we fully, fully respect that. I hope they respect where we're coming from and know that we want this, we want her to be found. We all want the same thing. So.

• 1:50:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, absolutely. And we want to hear your guys' thoughts. You know, we've gone over the potential theories. What do you think about them? Which one are you leaning more towards? Let us know in the comments section.

• 1:50:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Absolutely. Leave a comment, like, subscribe, turn notifications on, all that good stuff. We'll be back next week with a new series. Until then, everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you next week.

• 1:50:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.