09.04.26 Clark Answers His Critics on Clark Stinks / Clark & Wes Talk Retirement

Friday - Clark Stinks day! Christa shares Clark Stinks posts with Clark. Submit yours at Clark.com/ClarkStinks. Also, Clark discusses retirement with Wes Moss including how we can plan for not only a solid financial future, but a happy one as well. Clark Stinks: Segments 1 & 2 Clark & Wes On Retirement: Segments3 & 4 Mentioned on the show: Why Property Taxes Are Soaring (and How To Fight Back) Why You Need To Lock Your Brokerage Account Today Why Your HOA Fees Are Skyrocketing - Clark Howard The Biggest Investing Lesson From Trump Accounts - Clark Howard T-Mobile Retires Legacy Plans: Expect a Price Increase FCC - Filing an Informal Complaint Why some Americans are forced to retire too soon - Marketplace A Single Change to Your Car-Buying Habits Could Add $250,000 to Retirement Gen Z 401(k) Savings Compared to Older Generations Discover the research-backed path to an earlier, happier retirement – order The Retire Sooner Method by Wes Moss today at retiresoonermethod.com. All this and more on the September 4, 2026, episode of The Clark Howard Show. Note: No show on Monday due to Labor Day. Have a safe and wonderful weekend! Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Submit your opinions or questions: Ask Clark. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. And today, Krista, we're starting off with my favorite activity of the week.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  You do love it.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Clark Stinks, where we get to talk about how I messed up. It's how I learned. And then later, we're going to talk about, you know, we do our Ask an Advisor podcast as well. And Wes Moss, who does that, has done extensive research on what are the key things you need to do to be able to retire at an earlier age? And I have a special warning about unexpected retirement as well, that I want to bring up and get Wes's opinion on. That's going to be the second half of today's podcast YouTube show.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  A rare occasion where Wes and I share the microphone together.

• 1:56Speaker 04

  Well, you know, Wes is going to have to really raise this microphone up because he's a foot taller than I am.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  He's nine feet tall, yeah.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  He's so tall.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I look like a shrimp.

• 2:04Speaker 04

  And you're not, you're not a shrimp, so.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Well, anyway, it's time, though, to hear how I messed up in today's Clark Stinks.

• 2:16Speaker 05

  I should have never encouraged you to speak. You must think I'm pretty stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself. Well, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm wrong.

• 2:22Speaker 04

  Maybe you're right, pal.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Somebody complained that I started speaking too soon and they didn't get to hear the whole Clark Stinks song last time, so I thought I'd just chill on that a little bit.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  All right, but see, I think the people who watch our YouTube show love seeing the Krista dance.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  That's not dancing, I'm just swaying a little.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  That's not dancing?

• 2:43Speaker 04

  No, that's not real dancing.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  For me, that would be way into dancing, since I can't dance at all.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  All right, Josh in Pennsylvania says, I cannot believe Clark got through an entire segment about real estate tax appraisals without mentioning millage rates. My appraisal went up 90% from eight years ago, but that's not accurate, and it doesn't mean my taxes will go up. It only matters in relation to other values. According to Pennsylvania law, the millage rates must be reset, so no additional taxes collected based on values. Then the rate can be increased as normal. The reassessment is meant to get everyone on the same playing field. If you could sell your house for your appraised value, don't appeal.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Right, thank you very much. And as I tried to say when we did that segment about appeals, is that every state does this differently. Every state has its own wrinkles. And states that use a digest where the millage rate is adjusted so that it doesn't allow government to just get a lot more tax money, but say, oh yeah, your place is worth more. That is a great system. I would say that is a better system than what California kicked off back in, I think, 1979 with Prop 13, where people have ended up with house lock because their property

• 4:10Speaker 03

  tax essentially never goes up any meaningful amount from when they buy the home and even living in it decades later. And it's made it hard for younger people in California to ever be able to buy a house, among other reasons.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  Bunny in California says, Clark is a hero to the frugal, but his answer to a listener who asked how one can avoid capital gains when you sell rental property could have smelled better. Clark could have mentioned that for those fortunate enough to be building wealth for heirs instead of themselves, one can avoid capital gains for your family by holding the property till the owner's death, once children would get a full step up in basis upon death of the owner and pay no capital gains taxes. In community property states like California and Texas, your spouse would also get a full step up if the property was jointly owned. With how much property values have increased in a state like California that also has a high state taxes on capital gains, it could be a very wise move to let your heirs inherit your property.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Thank you, and thank you for pointing this out because I keep dealing with circumstances where an aging parent thinks they're doing a favor to their kids by signing the house over to them while they're living, and they're creating a capital gains tax problem that would not exist if they waited till the time of their passing for a child to inherit at that point, rather than receive it while the aging parent is still alive.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Okay, Rick in Connecticut, but hates high taxes, hates the high taxes in Connecticut, wrote in with this. Thanks to Clark, to saying Vanguard has an option in their app to combat ACATS fraud on your brokerage accounts. However, Clark did not address 401k accounts. Although not mentioned in the original post, Vanguard and Fidelity's transfer locks do not protect 401k accounts. Please, oh mighty Clark, explain why. Are 401k accounts also susceptible to ACATS fraud, or are they not susceptible?

• 6:08Speaker 03

  401k accounts are subject to fraudulent transfers out, where someone uses false identity, moves the money out, and you have a terrible problem at that point. I dealt with this. For those of you aren't aware, I do TV five days a week on a number of stations around the country on their news, and I did a story on someone whose retirement money was swiped, and they didn't realize soon enough, and they lost the ability to recapture their money. Because this is an area where there's a lot of money sitting, it's very appealing to crooks,

• 6:50Speaker 03

  and this is why it's really important that when you're many 401k plans, you're only getting a quarterly statement, particularly if you no longer work at a place and you have a stranded 401k there. You want to get those quarterly statements, you want to open them, and you want to, in a timely fashion, if something's not right, to react to it.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  I would also say set up notifications. Most of these companies and websites will allow you to set up notifications if there's any sale or anything like that, because usually you have a couple of days to catch that, because most money is invested in something that you'd have to sell. Mark in Washington says, Clark, you don't stink. In fact, I agree with Yogi Berra. Predictions are hard, especially about the future. However, I have to disagree with your recent take on the stock market. I work as an IT developer, and AI has already doubled or tripled my productivity. Across the economy, I see plenty of jobs adapting to that massive leap in output and driving even more growth. I see major growth coming.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Thank you. And AI is, is a disruptor that is significant enough that we don't yet know all the tentacles it'll have, all the good things and bad things that will occur. Human nature being what it is, polling shows that most people only look at AI from a negative perspective. The possibility of economic growth may be there, but I just read a long essay about this, I think in Barron's magazine, about how there's unintended reverse effects from AI as well, that some industries will benefit mightily from the tools of AI and the implementation of AI in what they do.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Other industries will suffer as a result. So it's too early to know what the long-term implications and impacts are going to be.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Mike in California says, I never thought I would find myself writing a Clark Stinks, but the Clark Meister finally talked about a subject I'm very familiar with and made some troubling remarks about HOAs and HOA fees. In his monologue, Clark loosely equates HOA dues to taxes. It's inaccurate to label them as taxes, since taxes go to pay for public services, and HOA dues are used to pay for the needs of a private community. Homeowners are required to pay annual homeowner dues, often monthly, to pay for their share of the common area expenses, which include maintenance, repair, and replacement costs of necessary components that make up the common areas. Depending on the HOA, this could include water, garbage, roads, landscaping, painting, roofs, et cetera.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Clark mentions foreclosure and fines in the same breath. I know that Clark must paint in broad strokes when he talks about topics, but I can tell you that in California, a foreclosure as a result of an unpaid fine is very, very rare. In most cases, if an HOA homeowner chooses not to pay a fine, he or she would be deemed by the vote of directors as a member not in good standing, in most cases meaning they would lose their privilege to access any amenities that are available to homeowners. The balance would remain on their account indefinitely, or until time they sell their unit, at which point they would be required to settle their debt, along with any penalties, most likely late fees. As a longtime director of my own HOA, I applaud Clark for becoming a board member when he

• 10:10Speaker 04

  lived in one, and he succinctly expresses his reason for doing so as a means of protecting his interests. I truly appreciate the passion, dedication, and hard work of all the Team Clark crew, and I'm very thankful for being part of the Clark Nation. Clark Nation, I love it.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Clark Nation, that's a big term.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  It's like Chiefs Nation. Don't the Chiefs fans all say that?

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Oh, well, the Chiefs fans are, they wear their colors. I don't care where I am in the United States, you spot Chiefs fans.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know one who has three Super Bowl rings and didn't play on the team.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Bought replicas?

• 10:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  Oh, that's funny.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Okay. So yes, you're right. Condominium law, just as we were talking about earlier with property tax, condominium and homeowners association law varies by state. Unfortunately, the number of foreclosures of people by homeowners associations, condominium associations is way up in the country over the last several years. And there are a number of states that this is a weapon deployed by homeowners association and condo associations and permitted by law to take somebody's home away. There are, I forgot how many states there are, that the

• 11:27Speaker 03

  homeowners association is superior in a foreclosure to the first mortgage. And that puts the homeowners association with too strong a financial incentive to proceed to foreclosure. I'm glad that in California, the tools are more gentle in what you can do to a homeowner who has failed to pay.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Chuck in Florida says, Clark, you stink like government cheese that was left out in the sun too long. You've thrown the Trump accounts under the bus several times now saying that they don't get favorable tax treatment. Yet for some reason, as the self-proclaimed man from Roth, you never mention the fact that the entire balance accumulated in a Trump account is convertible to Roth IRA for the beneficiary at any time after age 18.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  So it's entirely possible to make all the contributions and earnings in the account, along with any future contributions and growth entirely tax-free, if the account is converted anytime after that age and before the beneficiary starts earning taxable income.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay. You just said a key thing. And it is true that if you structure a Trump account where you contribute to it over the years while a kid is a minor, when they achieve adulthood and they are financially independent, but their income is still low, the tax on conversion from the Trump account to Roth IRA would be very low. The reason I love the 529 accounts and prefer them, even if there's not necessarily an intention to go to college, is that the 529 account, many states give a tax benefit upfront, the accounts

• 13:05Speaker 03

  grow tax-free, they're spent tax-free if used for college, and up to $35,000 not used for college can be converted tax-free into a Roth, creating a lifetime of growth of money tax-free that ultimately is spent tax-free. So the 529, to me, is a superior vehicle, even if college is not likely in the culture of a family, for a newborn or young child to go to college, it's still a great vehicle to save for retirement, converting that money to a Roth.

• 13:44Speaker 04

  JT in Florida, this is the last one. Well, hello, Mr. Howard. I read your article on the T-Mobile retirees' legacy plans. Expect a price increase on your website. I was affected by said increase, but one thing that was left out of the article was to file an FCC complaint. I tried to appeal to the customer no service, but got nowhere. I was handcuffed to T-Mobile because I traded in phones, and if you leave, you lose the credit. I filed the complaint with the FCC and a member of their executive response contacted me a couple of weeks later. I got a credit for the $12 increase for 26 months. $312 is a lump credit to my bill. This info could really help others who are also handcuffed to 24-month loans or receiving credits for trade-ins. I've been listening for many years, and thanks for

• 14:29Speaker 04

  all the advice you've given. JT. P.S. I'm ready to join Team Clark now.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  You are. You are a member of Team Clark. I am ecstatic because people have been running into a brick wall trying to deal with this terribly crooked behavior by T-Mobile. T-Mobile's cynicism about this is unparalleled. And so you, having the idea to file a complaint with the FCC, what a great idea. Other people who are T-Mobile, who are getting taken advantage of by T-Mobile cheating you, you should do the same thing. And let's hope that you get the same result. And I will say it again, I've called T-Mobile cheaters, liars, every

• 15:16Speaker 03

  last thing. And T-Mobile has never taken me up on the opportunity to come on the podcast and YouTube show and have an opportunity for rebuttal. The silence is deafening because T-Mobile knows they're playing dirty. They know they're not behaving. And they just hope that they're so big and so powerful, they can roll over you. And here's someone who would not get rolled over.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  JT, member of Clark Nation, we're going to call it now.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Team Clark. That's a little...

• 15:51Speaker 04

  I like Clark Nation.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  That's a little too much for me. But thank you all so much for your posts. You know what I love, Krista?

• 16:00Speaker 04

  What?

• 16:00Speaker 03

  The posts are so useful.

• 16:02Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  And they're so varied from week to week. Is that your doing that you are able to?

• 16:10Speaker 04

  I try to, but it's Clark Nation. I know you don't like it. It's the Clarkies. They are great, and they always send in a variety of topics. But yeah, I try not to double up too much.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  So if you're listening or you're watching and you say, I can't believe Clark said that. He is such an idiot. If you feel I said something just way out of line, just plain dumb, I want to hear from you. Go to clark.com/ClarkStinks, post away. We all help each other. We all learn from each other. And we all grow our knowledge together. And so I appreciate it so very much. And coming up ahead, we're going to talk about how you're in charge of your own future financially, if you wish to be.

• 16:59Speaker 00

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• 19:15Speaker 03

  So as I promised at the top of this podcast, this is an unusual event this Friday afternoon. We're going to talk about a magic number with Wes Moss, who's here and does our Ask an Advisor podcast. And it's great to have you here. I didn't know you would ever work on a Friday.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  If you're working, I'm working.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Well, that is awesome. So...

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Wait, a magic number?

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Magic number is coming your way. You ready?

• 19:42Speaker 02

  I don't know where you're headed with this.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  It's a secret.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. 57.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  Fifty seven.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  The significance of 57 is I read about a recent study that the average person who's in corporate America may have intended to work to age 65, 66, 63, 62, whatever. And they were thinking, okay, so my 401k, I'm putting this much in and I'm going to be just fine when I decide to go out the door. But unfortunately, in corporate America, because of age discrimination, which is supposed to be illegal, but not in

• 20:20Speaker 05

  It's supposed to be.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  The average corporate type ends up being jettisoned at an average age of 57 and they're not ready for retirement. I thought this was an ironic topic to bring to you because you write so much about what makes a happy retiree. What are the key things to being able to retire early?

• 20:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  You wrote a new book, Retire Sooner Method. Everything you write about is about me being in control.

• 20:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  I'm the, the person who's working. I've got this goal. It's going to work if I do it at such and such age.

• 21:03Speaker 05

  Here are the things to do once you stop.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Right. Oh, because you talk a lot, as I've heard you for a generation, it seems, talk about that it's not just about having dollars and cents.

• 21:15Speaker 05

  Right.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  That the only way it really works is if you have interests in life that you pursue in retirement.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  Super activities, five, five plus.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Oh, another number, five plus.

• 21:26Speaker 05

  Core pursuits, super activities.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  But for people in corporate America, we've got a crisis based on a different number, 57.

• 21:35Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  And so you are writing all about how you are in control and how you're in charge. What's freaking me out are people who are forced into early retirement. And they say that awkward thing, they're doing consulting now because they don't know what to tell their friends and neighbors and family, what's happened to them that corporate America said, you're surplus, you're

• 22:01Speaker 05

  Surplus. So does he love that?

• 22:03Speaker 03

  How about that's a term redundancy, as the Brits say, redundant, you're redundant?

• 22:08Speaker 05

  We have a surplus of humans. So in order to correct that surplus.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  We get rid of anybody beyond a certain age. Do you ever see the movie from forever ago? You were, you're probably too young, Logan's Run.

• 22:20Speaker 05

  Logan's Run. Is it black and white?

• 22:23Speaker 03

  No, it was colored. But in Logan's Run, in that society, when people reached a certain age, they were exterminated.

• 22:31Speaker 05

  Ah.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  You know, which was the ultimate age discrimination.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  Surplus.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  What we're talking about here is corporate America basically exterminating your career and you're not ready. So with that being the case, people who are shifting in their seat right now, listening to you and me or watching us, what do you say to people that are in the corporate America world, the big faceless corporations I always make fun of? And you're thinking, okay, this is my plan. This is the age I'm going to execute the plan. Let's deal with the oops that happen so much in corporate America, where they decide that anybody who's got a five in their years, 50 or above.

• 23:18Speaker 05

  Maybe part of the, the other thing too, Clark, I think that may be accelerating because it's right that the age of which we expect to retire, it's cut short for a lot of people. It happens sooner without you planning for it. And a lot of it is because of what you just mentioned.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  So the whole idea that made me think about this is what you spend so much time researching and writing about in this new book of yours is about being in charge so you can retire early, safely. So the whole idea is not

• 23:53Speaker 05

  Surprise. Like, what do we do?

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Right. So what should I do if I'm, let's say I'm 44 years old and I'm in corporate America and I think because I work for this S and P 500 company.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  And they love you.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Fortune 500 company that I'm writing my own ticket.

• 24:12Speaker 05

  Top 50 best companies to work for. Well,

• 24:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 05

  The two accelerants of that right now, Clark, are artificial intelligence has actually pushed workers in their 50s out sooner than they would have expected. That's another variable. And then being a caretaker, our parents get to be, let's say they're 80 and now they need full time caretaking. That's another big thing that makes people stop working before they thought or had planned. So in the retire sooner method, there's really only one, there's only one major area that, that deals with the levels we need to get to. I call the money green zones. Out of the five steps in the retire sooner method, what you're addressing is the, the GPS part.

• 24:59Speaker 05

  How do I map out when I'm going to be able to stop working? And to be able to do that today at 44, as your example, thinking you're going to get to 65 and have X amount. But when you do that planning, I address this in the retire sooner method, I love drawing out these, what I call retirement timelines. And you can do big fancy software and have a 60 page financial plan and map out every single scenario. And there's a lot of value to using those. But before you do that, what I like to have folks do, and I see it being very helpful, is visualize that timeline and say, well, this is my target zone of retirement.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  It's usually not an exact year. When people are planning for retirement, they usually are thinking in a range. So that maybe it's 65, but they say, well, maybe it's 63, maybe it's 66 or 67, but that's the range. And that very range helps people plan for what happens if it's a little sooner than that. So that if you're in your 40s, you still have a lot of time. I think you're right. If you're in your mid 50s and your plan is seven more years and something happens at work next year and you haven't done any planning for that, you're in trouble. You're in big trouble. But if you're in your 40s and you think you're going to work 20 more years

• 26:21Speaker 05

  and you're looking at a target zone of a couple of years, then it makes all the sense in the world to say, well, what happens if it's five years sooner than that? I talk about the money, three money green zones. Getting to those money green zones is hard enough. It's hard for most Americans to hit these money greens I talk about. Now, there's a big chunk of the population that are able to do it, but it's still not easy. The one thing I know that we can all do is that when we're mapping out a timeline, which is a way to visualize our, it's almost a GPS for retirement, is we look at our target zone age and then we say, well, what happens if I can't keep saving and earning three years sooner than that or five years sooner than that?

• 27:04Speaker 05

  And if you're in your 40s, you still have time for that extra safety valve plan that happens before you maybe wanted it to.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  So it requires things that you change in your lifestyle. Cause you may have, you may be right in that stage of you've got school age kids or maybe kids that are in high school, getting close to college or in college. So we're talking about stuff like, oh, all it requires is you just do this. But it actually requires rethinking things that you naturally spend money on that are the things that we want to, but we think of them as have to's. You know what my favorite is in that category? The car people drive.

• 27:51Speaker 05

  Car.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I mean, cars are the most reliable they have ever been

• 27:57Speaker 03

  in the history of the automotive business right now. And so many people feel like, oh, well, I've always gotten a new car every three or four years. That's just what I do. Uh-uh. This is when that becomes a don't, not a do.

• 28:12Speaker 05

  I, I think when the economic uncertainty index is high, and I think we have more, there's real evidence. So, so far, the, one of the, the, what I'd say recently quantifiable about the, the, the great change and disruption that has happened with artificial intelligence in the workforce, the rate of change of what we're doing new is as high as it's almost ever been. And in an average year, we're doing 4% of our, let's call it 5% of our time of what we do in any given day changes in a normal year. That's basically doubled over the last couple of years. So now 10% new every single year. So you do that math and a couple of

• 28:54Speaker 05

  years, half of my job is totally different than what I used to do. So we're in a time, this isn't going away, Clark, of more fluctuation than ever. And to your point about that sacrifice, because there's more uncertainty in the labor market, then I think it requires even more savings at an early age and more sacrifice.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  And you call it sacrifice. I call it control.

• 29:18Speaker 05

  Control?

• 29:18Speaker 03

  That if I take on a new vehicle, I borrow money for it. And now we've got this huge percent of people that are paying $1,000 or more a month in vehicle payment. I mean, I want you to think about, hey, wait a minute, why do I put that pressure on myself? Why am I putting that on my wallet? Why am I borrowing that money? So when I was reading this, I was thinking all about, okay, so wait a minute, how are people going to get there if they're still taking on in their 40s, these huge payments, these loans of all kinds for things you don't have to have?

• 30:00Speaker 05

  You think of it as cars, you know, because-

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Well, just as an example.

• 30:03Speaker 05

  Control is, that's a great way to think about it is control. Marketers have gotten so good, they make it seem like it's sacrifice. I'm supposed to have that, but it really is control.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  I work hard. I deserve it. I cannot believe how often I hear somebody say-

• 30:20Speaker 05

  I deserve it.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  I want it. That settles it. I deserve it. All these phrases that marketeers-

• 30:27Speaker 05

  They've gotten-

• 30:27Speaker 03

  Have gotten into our heads and our receptors want to hear them. We want to hear, yes, green light. I can buy this. I can do that. I can take that trip.

• 30:38Speaker 05

  I deserve it. College is another one. I think of it in terms of schools now because I've, I'm getting to the point where I have college age kids and the parents that complain, like, can you believe I have to spend $80,000 a year just in tuition for this school?

• 30:57Speaker 03

  But you don't.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Can you believe, it really is like complaining about the price of your Rolls. Like Rolls Royce, like, can you believe how much I paid for my BMW?

• 31:09Speaker 03

  And you know, the funny thing, you and I have never talked about this, but the course of study is more important than where the degree comes from in terms of what success they're going to have in the job market and what they're going to make. And people concentrate on, oh, well, my kid's got to go to one of these top 40 universities in the country. I mean, they're on the list from US News. They got to go to one of these. And they cost so much money. And it isn't what's going to make you a success in your adult life.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  It hasn't hit home with me until the last year or so, as now I'm, my kids are of college age. And you start looking at price tags and then you start thinking about, there are a lot of states around the country where the in-state schools are great and they're extraordinarily inexpensive on a relative basis.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:01Speaker 05

  But there's still so many parents that I hear from that complain about these 80, 90, $100,000 tuition schools. And I'm thinking, why are you complaining about the price of your luxury car? It's your choice. The only reason you would ever go to those schools, in my opinion, is that you have plenty of money and you shouldn't be complaining because you must be wealthy enough to do it.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  All right. So we got to talk, because if you are a teenager, listening to us or watching us, and you're like, wait a minute, you're trying to ruin my college dreams?

• 32:32Speaker 05

  I can't go to Duke?

• 32:34Speaker 03

  So wait, here's the problem. Okay. You go to that expensive school. Your parents then don't have any money when it's time that they suddenly get right sized out of a job. You're having to take care of your parents. Think about if you instead go to a much more affordable school, you reduce the financial burden on your parents. And then they're not carrying all that debt. They've saved more money and they can have a comfortable retirement and you're not freaking out about having to help them as they age. How about that?

• 33:10Speaker 05

  Well, that's-

• 33:10Speaker 03

  See, that's another thing.

• 33:11Speaker 05

  That's a sandwich.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  And see, that's another thing, taking, it's not a sacrifice for you to go to a more affordable school.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  It's not. It's control. And I think that, look, if a college is an $80,000 a year proposition or 100, and a family has no problem paying for that, then I think that's great. That's fine. But the vast, vast, vast majority of folks are not in that situation. And the vast majority of folks that do end up doing that do complain about the price tag. And it's only been more recently that something clicked in my mind, thinking, you know, I'm looking at all these in-state schools that are wonderful, lots of options. You don't have to have the best grades on the planet to get in. And they're virtually free. And a lot of states are like this in the United States, relative to spending what, for a

• 34:03Speaker 05

  lot of people, is almost half of what you have to save for retirement in the money green zones in four years.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  All right. You and I sound like we've been sending telepathic waves to each other here. Because really, if you're going to create financial security in retirement, and you're trying to create this aspirational thing of retire sooner, and you're going to do that, unless you're Daddy Warbucks, it's going to require various choices that create the money for the financial independence.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  And that formula is no secret, right? We know, and I hear from folks here on your, on your show for Ask an Advisor, every week we do this show, we get examples of 28-year-olds that are maxing their 401ks, have surpluses every month, they're investing the money. And those 28-year-olds are the 60-year-olds that write into the show as well that say, Wes, I've got 2.1 in this account and I've got 400 in this Roth account. But the only way they got there is because they were the 28-year-old, they had the discipline and the control to be an investor. Hard enough to be a saver, even more hard to be an investor and a saver and an investor. But those are the only folks that get to those green zones.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  And how about Gen Z are the best young savers and investors apparently we've ever had?

• 35:31Speaker 05

  Gen Z is what?

• 35:32Speaker 03

  That's up to-

• 35:33Speaker 05

  25 and under?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  29.

• 35:34Speaker 05

  29 and down. I mean, they really- How much have they saved? Are the Gen Z'ers are the number one right now?

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Number, for the age, for this generation, coming out of high school, coming out of college, are doing a better job saving money than any, than the data shows for any prior-

• 35:55Speaker 05

  Why do you think they are good?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  I think the parents. I think they saw what happened to their parents. You know, we're now having kids come of age where the parents didn't have a pension where they worked. They're struggling.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  They were caught in, they were the first generation to lose a pension.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Right. So I think, I think that has a lot to do with it. So we approach this, and I set it up, approaching it from, hey, you better get your act together.

• 36:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  But you write from a different perspective. If you do these things, you're going to have the control you want to have in your life. So what did you learn doing the research for retire sooner?

• 36:34Speaker 05

  So this did take a very long time. And, and as you know, because you wrote the foreword to my first, what I would call my first real book, which was, You Can Retire Sooner Than You Think.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  That was 15 some years ago. That was my first introduction to doing a research project and then studying the population, looking at the population of the research into two pieces, really in five, but taking the two happiest groups versus unhappy. And by the way, in this book, I talk about the brand of happiness is more the Aristotle brand of happiness, which is about purpose and fulfillment versus another kind of happiness, which is about absence of pain, seeking-

• 37:16Speaker 03

  And I love it because you're so right. And people in our culture miss that. It's very common in other cultures. They get that. There's something about the American psyche that people don't get that.

• 37:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. So again, I've been studying this from a research perspective to say, if I can identify a population and then emulate what they're doing, and because the end in mind is to be happy, to be happy in retirement. And we've got all these natural headwinds, age, socialization's harder, we stop work, our purpose can easily go away, our community can change, our kids move out. Like, there's all these big headwinds.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 37:52Speaker 05

  Getting into our 50s and above. And we want to fight against that. What was the most surprising piece of the equation in this? One, it was more about the research telling me what I should write as opposed to having an idea what to write. And I was worried, I didn't know what this research would come back. That in itself took six months to do and analyze. And then that formed, hey, this is what you need to write about, Wes. The research said that to me. I'll give you a rapid fire. One, the great and persistent top fear of running out of money, even for high net worth folks. The huge jump in happiness levels, and I do this in the book all about on a relative

• 38:36Speaker 05

  basis. So I've got the US happiness baseline. If this population is 10% higher than the baseline, it's telling me something. If a certain habit brings me below the baseline, it tells me something. But the huge jump, and this is statistically significant, and the 1,200 person research study I did is mapped to the US census so that it's demographically appropriate in the United States. I use a partnership with a research company to do this. The massive jump, a hugely statistically significant of the population who is in a position to retire. So that as soon as you get the freedom to be able to stop working, not pushed out, but you can choose to stop. There's a, it's a 21% jump in happiness

• 39:20Speaker 05

  levels. The minute you can say that, either you stop working, or you say to yourself, I could stop working. Huge number, Clark.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  We're going to stop it there because that is so significant because that's always been my thing. And you encapsulated it right there. And your research validated that it's not that you're not working, it's that you don't have to work.

• 39:45Speaker 05

  That's it.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  That you go to work because it brings you joy, not that you go to work because I got bills to pay and I'm afraid of my email and my mailbox.

• 39:56Speaker 05

  Well, I appreciate you being a mentor through the many years on first radio and now podcasts. But you're the one that taught me how to educate, I think. And one of them, one of the main influences on being an educator. And you wrote a bunch of books. I don't know if you want to write another one again.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  I am done. 10 and done.

• 40:18Speaker 05

  You did 10.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  10. Yeah.

• 40:21Speaker 05

  Well, yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  But see, I always had to have a co-author because I'm not the most articulate writer in the world. So I had to have help taking what I say and making it sound good in prose.

• 40:37Speaker 05

  Well, it is a labor of love. I love that I'm finished writing it. I'm glad that it turned out the way it did. I'm really excited about it. I think it's going to be super helpful to folks. And it kind of supersedes a lot of the research that I've done over my career. It's still in line with what I found many years ago. It's just a, it's a 2025 and now later version of what has happened in America and the psyche of the happy retiree. And I hope it's helpful to folks.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Well, Wes, thank you so much. Thank you for what you do with the Ask an Advisor podcast. I appreciate it very much. And with that having been said, it's time for your weekend. And you know what the theme is here? It's all about you, through knowledge, being empowered so that you're in charge, so that you learn ways to save more, spend less, and don't ever let anybody rip you off, especially don't rip yourself off. And go have a great weekend.

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