Why are so many voters sitting out this week?

Off-year elections -- as in, not a presidential or a midterm -- have fairly dismal voter turnout. Yet they matter a great deal. Most of our lives are lived at the local, not the national, level. So why do so many skip their state and local elections? We spoke with Luis Lozada, the CEO of Democracy Works, to understand why people don't show and why they should. Democracy Works is a nonpartisan nonprofit dedicated to helping America vote. Click here to access their free tool, TurboVote, to help you check your registration, find your polling place, get personalized reminders for every election, and more. CLICK HERE: Visit our website to see all of our episodes, donate to the podcast, sign up for our newsletter, get free educational materials, and more! To see Civics 101 in book form, check out A User's Guide to Democracy: How America Works by Hannah McCarthy and Nick Capodice, featuring illustrations by Tom Toro. Check out our other weekly NHPR podcast, Outside/In - we think you'll love it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Nick Capodice?

  Did you vote already or is it like you're still waiting to do it?

• 0:02Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, I voted on Monday. Um, per usual, it made me like emotional and nostalgic, though I'm not sure what for. Did you vote already?

• 0:11Nick Capodice?

  No, I'm more of like a day of guy.

• 0:13Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, I am gonna be out of town, so it was an absentee ballot, baby.

• 0:18Nick Capodice?

  Is this your first one, your first absentee?

• 0:20Hannah McCarthy?

  It was, and I'm happy to report it was a breeze. And I did have to go to Town Hall, but I like really love going to Town Hall. I would go to Eddie Town for City Hall. I love them.

• 0:31Nick Capodice?

  So Hannah, this is an episode about why people don't vote, and I feel like you're already very much alienating all the non-voter, non-Town Hall lovers out there.

• 0:40Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, sorry. This is Civics 101. I'm Hannah McCarthy.

• 0:43Nick Capodice?

  I'm Nick Capodice.

• 0:47Hannah McCarthy?

  Now, if you are listening to this on November 3rd, when it comes out, tomorrow is Election Day. Not the presidential election, not the midterm. This is what some people call an off year, and most people take it off.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  If you subtract states that have a gubernatorial election in any odd-numbered year, you're probably looking at sub-20, sub-15% turnout.

• 1:11Hannah McCarthy?

  This is Luis Lozada.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  I'm the CEO of Democracy Works, and Democracy Works is a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that makes voting easier and more accessible for Americans.

• 1:22Hannah McCarthy?

  And again, tomorrow is Election Day. If you are feeling disempowered or underrepresented or maybe even unrepresented, there's a magical tool you have called voting. So make sure you're registered. If you can't get to the polls, try to figure out if you can vote early or absentee. And if you want help figuring out how to do that, keep listening to us. So Nick, today's episode is in large part about why people don't vote. And I talked to Louis about voter apathy.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Apathy, as in people who don't vote because they're indifferent or disinterested?

• 1:54Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, but from Louis's perspective, that's not really the problem.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  I think it's almost of different versions of apathy. When you're participating in something and your lot in life doesn't change, you tend to check out. And I think that just the state that we're currently in, especially for young people in this country, they're failing to see how participating in democracy actually has an additive effect. I mean, you know, if you're concerned about student loans, or if you're concerned about whether you're going to be able to purchase a home or build a family, or you know, any of the things that folks value in this country. And you're seeing that, you know, election over election, nothing's changing, or alternatively, it's getting worse, you have the tendency to check out.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  There's a lot of negative partisanship out there, too, where, you know, when you're receiving messaging in the places where you're seeing information about how both sides are equally as bad, or everything is wrong, or it doesn't matter who you vote for, it's tough to turn away from that stuff and not internalize it and say, you know what, maybe they're right. Because I'm seeing how it's happened with my parents, and I'm seeing how it might happen to me. I'm seeing how these elected officials are all of a particular age or a particular stripe, and it doesn't change.

• 3:14Nick Capodice?

  Now, I have to guess that this rings true for a lot of people, Hannah. They're not seeing what they need or what they want from the people who are ostensibly representing them.

• 3:24Hannah McCarthy?

  I know. And guess what? Louis's pitch for changing that, it's the same as mine.

• 3:31Nick Capodice?

  Of course it is.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  So until, you know, groups that want to get folks out and voting really reckon with the fact that folks need to see examples of democracy working for the things that they aspire to, you're going to have a challenge with apathy. And I think, you know, you can say, apathy, I don't care. Or what we're really dealing with is, I care, but I don't see this as the solution. And I think that in a representative democracy, that's even more pernicious.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  It's votes and money. And as we've seen, traditionally, young folks don't have either of them for elected officials, whether it comes in the form of campaign contributions or, you know, concerted, consistent participation in the voting process, you know, cycle over cycle. Young people, you know, have been traditionally, historically, easy to ignore for many candidates for office. I think more and more we're seeing it, but not enough on the national level. You'll hear local examples, for example, in New York with the Mamdani mayoral campaign, where they're tapping into some energy and in some other discreet races around the country. But by and large, when you're talking about statewide candidates

• 4:49Speaker 02

  or even national candidates, You're talking about the same old, same old. And I think that until there is repeated concerted activity and participation by younger voters, and we have all evidence that that is a possibility, but until it actually manifests itself, you're going to get more of the same.

• 5:10Nick Capodice?

  Oh, there it is, from someone who actually knows the data, no less.

• 5:16Hannah McCarthy?

  I think all the time, Nick, about the party realignment that happened between the 60s and 80s. And I actually think that that is an example of what happens when you do actually vote.

• 5:26Nick Capodice?

  How so?

• 5:29Hannah McCarthy?

  Well, you had all of these lifelong white Southern Democrats in Southern states. They vote. And the way that they feel about racial integration and civil rights does not seem to be reflected by their party.

• 5:41Nick Capodice?

  As in, they're opposed to it?

• 5:43Hannah McCarthy?

  Right. So candidates like Richard Nixon and Barry Goldwater, they started campaigning opposed to school busing desegregation. Lo and behold, Southern Democrats start defecting to the GOP. And then Ronald Reagan's campaign comes along and throws in opposition to gun regulation and legal abortion. And that works like a dream as well. The GOP saw a large voting bloc with specific values, and they made those values central to their campaigns.

• 6:10Nick Capodice?

  So when it comes to younger people, and this is assuming, Hannah, shared values among younger people, which might not be the case, but if they actually voted, their values would make their way into politics.

• 6:22Hannah McCarthy?

  I think it's possible. I say if you look at politicians as, you know, value agnostics who prioritize the stuff that powerful, AKA, rich and well-connected people want, and you are neither rich nor well-connected, why don't you do the one thing you can to assert your power? Vote.

• 6:37Nick Capodice?

  From your lips to young ears, Hannah. So, all right, that is one non-voter demographic. But can we get back to this off-year thing? Louis mentioned that when it comes to these off-year elections that are almost entirely state and local, like this year, for example, turnout is pretty low across the board.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  I don't know that we do a good enough job in the country, in the news, of highlighting the importance of the local election, the local issue, as opposed to the national election and the national candidate.

• 7:11Hannah McCarthy?

  Can you imagine, Nick, if television and radio and social media was flooded with information about your city council elections in the way that it is a senatorial or presidential election?

• 7:21Speaker 02

  If the election isn't framed by either a national party or national news outlets, folks tend to disengage. And that's where I see the concern here because, you know, local elections and that sort of local democracy has far more weight on our everyday lives than many of the elections that we are led to pay attention to that occur every two or four years.

• 7:47Hannah McCarthy?

  Like this year, Nick, I voted for people who will, for the next two years, pass all of the ordinances in my town, as in appropriating money, approving of appointees like the fire chief, passing tax rate changes, people who, for the next four years, I'm thinking about, you know, the school committee and the housing board, these are people who will make major changes to school and housing in my town. I mean, I voted for the people who will be in charge of electricity.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  What?

• 8:14Hannah McCarthy?

  My town has a municipal electricity company. It is a real thing. Look it up. There are thousands of them in the US, and often you are voting for the board members. But my point is, I might be affected in some direct and plenty of tangential ways by my national government, but my town's government affects my daily life.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  So many of the things, whether it's your school or your library, it's all being funded, administered, and the decisions about its existence are made at the local level. And it just, it cannot be overstated how important it is for us to understand as citizens where our dollars are going, where our resources are coming from.

• 8:56Hannah McCarthy?

  Every year, I am more convinced that while it is definitely important to crane our necks up and see what Washington is up to, we are Civics 101, after all, that's what we do, we are leaving a lot of money on the table, literally, if we don't look sideways and see what's going on next door.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  You know, the term "dog catcher", for example, is almost used derisively in the election context. But, you know, let's assume that there is an animal in the middle of the road, and you don't know who to call. You know, there are agencies and employees that are run by people that run for elected office, that staff, man, and direct that. You know, that bridge that you drive over every day when you're trying to get to work, that's probably something that's funded by local taxes.

• 9:46Nick Capodice?

  All right. Now I want to get into the other reasons people don't vote. Apathy and off-years aside. You know, Hannah, I love telling people about voting in Australia. So it happens on a Saturday. They serve democracy sausage.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  Well, a record number of Australians chose to vote early this year. But that didn't prevent huge lines at polling booths today. In true Australian tradition, there were democracy sausages, sizzling, four-legged friends at the polls.

• 10:16Nick Capodice?

  And yeah, it is compulsory. You have got to pay a fee if you don't have a good reason for not voting. But Election Day, it's like a festival over there. And here, not so much.

• 10:29Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, Australians give a new meaning to political party. And we will get into how we don't after a quick break.

• 10:36Nick Capodice?

  But first, before that break, are you a big reader? Or maybe even a little reader? Or maybe more of an audiobook person? Well, Hannah and I have something for everyone. We wrote a book. It's called "A User's Guide to Democracy: How America Works", and we recorded the audiobook ourselves, if you'd prefer the not-quite dulcet tones of us getting really excited about democracy. You can find it wherever you get your books or your audiobooks.

• 11:11Nick Capodice?

  Haven't you out there ever Googled your own name? Like, actually done it? You'll find your address, your phone number, maybe even that police report from the time you went to see Rain Man in the movie theater, but you were underage? Maybe that one's just me. But here's the thing, there are companies called data brokers, whose entire business model is collecting your personal information and selling it to advertisers, to strangers, sometimes to people running scams. And once your data's out there, it just keeps circulating. That is where Incogni comes in. Incogni contacts data brokers on your behalf and sends them removal requests over and over, so your info doesn't just pop right back up. You set it up once, and they keep working in the background.

• 11:56Nick Capodice?

  You can even track the progress on a dashboard. And for our listeners, we have an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Just go to incogni.com/civics, or use the code CIVICS at checkout. There's a link in the episode description. Remember, they can't harm you if they can't find you. Holiday season is coming, and I don't think I have to tell you this might be a tough one, because things are expensive in the fall of 2026. Everyone I know is looking for ways to make a little extra money, prowling around the side hustle subreddits. But I will say, if you're looking to sell something, to launch a store fast before the

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• 13:23Hannah McCarthy?

  The older I get, the more I am looking for truly lovable closet staples that I know I will reach for just as often next year as I do right now. I want a closet that doesn't need constant updates or replacements, just high-quality clothes that last, especially the kind with tags that say 100%. As in, 100% Mongolian cashmere, 100% mulberry silk, 100% organic cotton, just like the Quince Fisherman Cropt Cardi and I am wearing right this very second. This sweater has kept its shape, color, and softness for years now. I reach for it every single fall, every time I want a warm and elevated look. Quince gives you the quality you expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. Find

• 14:08Hannah McCarthy?

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• 14:39Hannah McCarthy?

  We're back. We're talking about why people don't vote in a thinly veiled attempt to get people to vote. And Nick, before the break, you brought up one of the many differences between the United States and Australia: election day. Over there, it's democracy sausage. Over here, it's sometimes illegal to hand out water bottles to people in polling lines. Here's Luis Lozada again.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  There are any number of things that exist out there that either make it inconvenient for you to vote because it still happens on a Tuesday and you might have to work, or impacts your confidence in the result because, you know... Florida, they count all their votes by 8:30 PM on election night, but California and New York could take three weeks a month. So I still think that there are many things that states, and we have to recognize that states administer elections on the local level. And that's why the rules and procedures and counting measures and all that stuff differ from locality to locality. But there are still things that states can do to improve on a situation that's improved significantly.

• 15:45Nick Capodice?

  I'm thinking about the fact that you love going to a town or a city hall here, Hannah, and the fact that maybe not every American gets amped up to go request an absentee ballot in person.

• 15:57Hannah McCarthy?

  Well, I mean, to be fair, I had missed the by mail deadline.

• 16:00Nick Capodice?

  But you love a process that many people would find inconvenient at best, loathsome at worst. So what does Louis think in terms of the old fashioned errand-ness of it all?

• 16:13Speaker 02

  The availability of online voter registration should be table stakes. The days of making someone print out a form and fax it somewhere or mail it somewhere, who has a printer in their home anymore? You know, I think that that's a bit much. Again, early vote is just so helpful. There's so many folks that just have jobs that do not. If you're working in the retail sector, it is very difficult to break away on a particular Tuesday. You know, vote by mail is great. Ballot drop boxes. Voting can be characterized or felt by some as an inconvenience. Those states jurisdictions that make it as easy as possible to participate, respecting all of the needs around security and ensuring that folks are eligible,

• 16:59Speaker 02

  but then making it a pleasant experience. It could go all the way to the design of your I voted sticker. Just make it, make it fun and just reinvigorate it and make folks feel part of something greater. And the way you do that is like any other customer service initiative. Have people feeling, you know, pleasant and good about the process when they're done with it.

• 17:23Hannah McCarthy?

  I did not get a sticker this year, and it made me genuinely sad.

• 17:29Nick Capodice?

  Do you know that in 2024 in Durham, North Carolina, they had stickers that said, "No bull, I voted"?

• 17:37Hannah McCarthy?

  Did you ever see the Ulster County spider?

• 17:38Nick Capodice?

  The what?

• 17:39Hannah McCarthy?

  So a 14-year-old drew this big, bright, bizarre, awesome spider with a human face, and it won an "I voted" sticker design contest in Ulster County, New York. And then that sticker went viral online.

• 17:51Speaker 04

  The winning sticker will be distributed to all Ulster County voters who participate in the November 8, 2022 general election.

• 17:58Nick Capodice?

  Well, if you want the viral merch, you gotta do the deed.

• 18:02Hannah McCarthy?

  Exactly. And honestly, it's just fun and makes people feel like they're part of a trend, which I think might actually be a shared cultural value across the political spectrum.

• 18:11Nick Capodice?

  All right, now we have to dig into some sharper barriers to voting. Beyond the apathy, beyond the inconvenience, beyond the off-year, did you ask Louis about security and privacy concerns?

• 18:23Hannah McCarthy?

  I sure did. Let's start with privacy. The Trump administration has twice requested voter rule information from states, once in 2017, again in 2025. And this has caused privacy concerns among not just voters, but election officials as well.

• 18:38Speaker 05

  I am always concerned about anything that discourages people from voting. There is the potential that people will be fearful of voting.

• 18:47Speaker 06

  The request came from the Trump administration, and it has been sent out to several other states.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  I'll start with, I don't know what the actual goal is of requesting this voter data from the states. And when I say what the goal is, what the goal of the current administration.

• 19:05Hannah McCarthy?

  The Department of Justice has said that it wants this information in order to enforce the Help America Vote Act and the National Voter Registration Act, even though both of these laws put voter rule maintenance in the hands of the states. And states have an information-sharing system already. Kind of.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I can say that in the past, there have been projects or programs like ERIC, the Electronic Registration Information Center, which was a data-sharing relationship amongst the various states to ensure that folks were not registered in more than one state at a time. And projects like those, you know, were effective for a long time. And then, three or four years ago, there was partisan attack, and they've kind of been, you know, kneecapped to a certain extent.

• 19:50Hannah McCarthy?

  The partisan thing started with a false conspiracy theory that ERIC was not a bipartisan state-run program to improve election security and voter registration across the spectrum, but a far-left plot funded by George Soros to register Democrats and win elections. Again, very much not true. But the states that pulled out of ERIC in large part because of this conspiracy theory are now essentially having to figure out a new way to properly maintain their voter rolls. Anyway, why the federal government is requesting this voter roll information, as Louis said, is not entirely clear. But for those concerned about what that means for privacy...

• 20:27Speaker 02

  I don't know that people should automatically opt out of the process because of concerns about personally identifiable information. A little-known secret is that voting history for most individuals in the country is public, as well as your party affiliation. So there is a fair amount of data out there. I think that, like most things, there's a reasonableness standard, and I hope that the folks making these requests are using the information responsibly.

• 20:59Nick Capodice?

  So a lot of your information is already out there. The concern is more how people use it and what specifically they're getting, including the DOJ.

• 21:09Hannah McCarthy?

  Some states have only shared publicly-available information with the DOJ. Some states have shared all of it. Some have refused to share any. They are now going through lawsuits. And for those who want to follow the status of their state and their information, I will put a link to the Brennan Center's Tracker of Justice Department Requests for Voter Information in the show notes.

• 21:27Nick Capodice?

  All right, now what about the security thing? President Trump has said he will send local law enforcement to polling places on Election Day. The DOJ announced it's sending federal personnel to polling places.

• 21:40Speaker 07

  The Trump administration has instructed the Justice Department to monitor polling sites in California and New Jersey during next week's elections.

• 21:48Nick Capodice?

  And California Governor Gavin Newsom has said that people should expect to see military, ICE, and Border Patrol at polling locations this year.

• 21:56Speaker 08

  And you're going to likely see members of our military in and around polling booths and voting places all across this country. Well, I would say the same about ICE and Border Patrol.

• 22:07Nick Capodice?

  So I can imagine how some people could see that as a reason not to vote.

• 22:12Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, and we should say that President Trump's claims that he will send local law enforcement, legal experts say that is not legal. Governor Gavin Newsom's claims that people should expect to see military, ICE, Border Patrol, et cetera, at polling locations. We do not yet have any information that confirms that when it comes to immigration officials. However, to your point, Nick, in September, the Latino Community Foundation polled 1,200 Latino voters. These are citizens of the United States. Two-thirds of them expressed some level of concern that ICE would show up at their polling place.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  I mean, at worst, we've been concerned about someone being handed a water bottle in line. Now, what we're considering is whether someone might be intimidated by law enforcement while they're in line to vote. Election offices around the country, their mitigation plan in the event of a disruption is to work with local law enforcement. But what happens when local law enforcement is forced to face down with federal law enforcement? And that's something that we've not yet encountered in modern times in this country. So as I and we prepare for November, because we've got local elections in places like

• 23:29Speaker 02

  New York, New Jersey, and Virginia, populations that have a lot of folks that are on the ICE radar, we're considering, how do we best support election protection organizations? And I think that- The challenge here is going to be about understanding where voting locations are, being able to identify hotspots of activity and getting information out to groups that in some cases may not be law enforcement, but will need to step in to assist. Because, you know, election officials, especially folks that are working on, at polling locations on Election Day, they're committed citizens, but they're not going to get into a fight for you

• 24:14Speaker 02

  about, you know, whether or not you're going to vote. And they're not going to get in between you and federal law enforcement.

• 24:19Nick Capodice?

  You know, being pro-voting, pro-enfranchisement for all citizens is a nonpartisan, yet heavily politicized thing that we stand behind here at Civics 101. And you've already admitted it, Hannah. You hope that listeners feel encouraged rather than discouraged to vote after listening to this episode. So did Lewis have any tips for citizens who might feel intimidated by that?

• 24:45Speaker 02

  We don't want a situation in this country where folks are scared to show up. That is when democracy really begins to fall apart. I think the best thing folks can do is avail themselves of ways to vote not on Election Day. You tend to get sparser crowds. To the extent you have vote-by-mail options, you should exercise those. Use a ballot drop box. Drop your ballot off at the election office prior to Election Day. It's almost, you know, mitigate in ways that you can, because what we're describing or discussing right now is something that is unprecedented, unexpected, and we don't have a straightforward solution for.

• 25:31Hannah McCarthy?

  So last items I want to share here, because yeah, I'm not just going to give the why people don't vote poison without the how and why to vote antidote. Lewis is the head of Democracy Works. He wants democracy to work. So here is what he and his organization do.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  We power Google's election resources, for example, voting location information, you know, rules and deadlines for voting. We do the same thing for TikTok. We've done it for Facebook. We do it for colleges and universities. We are trying to find people where they are. But we also understand that the media landscape is changing rapidly. So we've begun to experiment with making our tools available to influencers, folks that are talking on social media about these sort of political electoral issues and ensuring that they have a vanity site where they can send their audiences to, to find the very

• 26:30Speaker 02

  information on when, where, how to vote, what's on your ballot. Because, you know, while this is entertainment, this is also important. And we want to make sure that folks are not consuming information about the times without getting the tools necessary to act on the times.

• 26:46Nick Capodice?

  That sounds kind of like adding a do something about it option to doom scrolling.

• 26:50Hannah McCarthy?

  And in terms of the practicalities of the do something about it part?

• 26:54Speaker 02

  We've got everything you need to vote, as long as you know your home address, because your home address is going to place you in your respective congressional district or whatever applies to you on a local election perspective. It's dates and deadlines around registration, making sure that you're, you're on the rolls in time. It's the when, not every election is in November, and primaries are scattered through the spring and early summer. Where? Voting locations, you know, they change, especially in an era of redistricting, especially in an era where there's poll worker shortages. So we've got you covered there. And then what's on the ballot? You know, there are so many election sites that, you know, pay wallet, but they require a fair amount of personally identifiable information

• 27:38Speaker 02

  in order to access a sample ballot. You just give us an address and we're just using it to localize you, but we'll get you set up with all the candidates and relevant measures. And if you're accessing, you know, one of our products like TurboVote, via your employer, or a brand, or a PAC, or a union, you know, those partners may be giving you additional information about what a particular measure might mean. So we're really trying to wrap the voter, or the potential voter, with as much information as possible so that they can confidently vote. And we do it in a nonpartisan fashion.

• 28:16Hannah McCarthy?

  So finally, I asked Lewis for his elevator pitch to the person who believes that voting doesn't matter, the voter who doesn't plan to vote. He started with one more reason we haven't mentioned, that people don't vote.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Here's a common reason over the past month or so that people might say voting doesn't matter. The redistricting that's happening in Texas, California, Missouri, all places all around the country.

• 28:43Nick Capodice?

  Yeah, you know, this one is pretty compelling, Hannah. If your district lines have been drawn in such a way that your red vote is in a sea of blue, or vice versa, that can definitely make it feel like voting doesn't matter.

• 28:56Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah. Guess what the answer to that one is?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Those decisions, except for California, which is being brought to the ballot, are being made by state assembly people, folks that are elected as a result of a local contest that you probably didn't participate in because you didn't think it mattered. But now, you've seen on TV that national outcomes, representation in Congress, which may impact your healthcare, which may impact any number of things, are going to be dictated by a legislative branch and a house, which is no longer representative of your community. And why? Because that local election didn't go your way. And it didn't go your way, I'm not going to say

• 29:44Speaker 02

  because you didn't vote, but it's probably because you and a whole lot of your friends didn't vote. So, you know, when I think about civic activity, you know, I include protesting, I include boycotts. There are any number of ways that people can mobilize. But there's only one true measure of accountability. A politician can survive a protest. A company can survive a boycott. But once you're elected out of office, with very minor exception, it's really difficult to get back in. And, you know, so I think that the importance of exercising the franchise and understanding that as a collective, when you use that lever, it can change outcomes.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  That would be my elevator pitch.

• 30:44Hannah McCarthy?

  That does it for this episode, but not for your voting rights. Go use them. This episode was produced by me, Hannah McCarthy, with Nick Cappadicei. Marina Hanke is our producer. Rebecca Lavoy is our executive producer. Music in this episode comes from Epidemic Sound. If you want to get into those resources that Louis mentioned, you can go to democracy dot works. And if you want all of our resources, per usual, they can be found at our website, civics101podcast.org. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.

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