The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Empathy Evolution: Preventing Violence, Racism, Political Corruption, and Mental Illness by Creating More Caring People by Ronald Goldman

The Empathy Evolution: Preventing Violence, Racism, Political Corruption, and Mental Illness by Creating More Caring People by Ronald Goldman https://www.amazon.com/dp/195033662X Ronaldgoldmanphd.com What if the roots of America’s deepest problems begin earlier than we think? In The Empathy Evolution, award-winning psychologist Ronald Goldman, PhD, explores a powerful idea: violence, racism, political corruption, and mental illness may not only be personal, social, or political problems. They may also be connected to deeper emotional roots formed from common adverse early childhood experiences, unmet needs, and trauma. Drawing from developmental psychology, research, and personal insight, Goldman examines how empathy can be weakened, and how early emotional disconnection can affect individuals, families, communities, and society. This thoughtful and timely book looks beyond headlines and explains what can be done before early unrecognized harm affects behavior, belief, and lifelong emotional pain. For readers searching for developmental psychology books, trauma psychology books, or meaningful emotional intelligence books, this book offers a clear and compassionate way to understand human behavior. Readers will discover: How empathy develops and why it matters How early care and and doing what is natural influence emotional health and relationships Why trauma and associated emotional numbness can affect behavior How compassion can support healthier families and communities Why prevention matters in mental health and social change The Empathy Evolution is beneficial for parents, educators, counselors, health-care professionals, social advocates, and anyone interested in social behavior psychology. It helps readers understand why caring is not just a personal value, but a foundation for healthier people and a more compassionate future. With awareness of our problem origins, we can create significantly higher quality of life. About the author Ronald Goldman, PhD, is an award-winning psychologist, researcher, speaker, consultant, and the author of the #1 Amazon bestselling book, "The Empathy Evolution: Preventing Violence, Racism, Political Corruption, and Mental Illness by Creating More Caring People." Specializing in developmental and applied psychology, he educates the public and professionals about generally unrecognized origins and prevention of social and behavioral problems. As a highly sought-after expert, Dr. Goldman has been featured in national and international media including TIME, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post. His enlightening programs have been presented to universities, conferences, organizations, government groups, parents, and others.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now here's your host, Chris Voss.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Hey folks, it's Voss here from the ChrisVossShow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, it looks like the Iron Lady has got her voice in this Monday morning. So welcome to the big show, the ChrisVossShow.com. Anyway, we are the oldest living podcast that still produces one to two new shows a day. Seventeen years we've been doing this and we need your support. Refer your family, friends and relatives. Go to Facebook.com, LinkedIn.com, YouTube.com, four slash Chris Voss as one word. Today's featured author is brought to you by Majestic Authors Media, specializing in strategic marketing and publishing to help authors reach their ideal audience and maximize their book's success, turning powerful messages into global impact, one story at a time. Today, we have an amazing

• 1:21Speaker 01

  young man on the show. We're going to be talking about his book, which I think definitely the world needs in 2026. Those of you watching this decades from now on YouTube, from the, from your Terminator two shelters. The book is entitled, "The Empathy Evolution: Preventing Violence, Racism, Political Corruption and Mental Illness by Creating More Caring People", by Ronald Goldman. Boy, and Dr. Ronald Goldman, I should say, he is a PhD. So you want to definitely recognize his education in Smurfs, as they call it. The kids call it the Smurfs. No, they don't. I'm just making that up. So yeah, I'm just doing comedy. It's dying hard. Ronald Goldman is an award winning psychologist, researcher, speaker, writer

• 2:06Speaker 01

  and consultant and PhD. He specializes in developmental and applied psychology with work related to personal, emotional and behavioral difficulties that often involve insensitive and harmful treatment of others. His research and writing focuses on improving individual and collective experiences through greater awareness of empathy, early emotional development, trauma and human connection. His publications have been featured in newspapers, magazines, textbooks and journals, and his work has been endorsed by professionals in related fields. Welcome to the show, Ronald. How are you, sir?

• 2:41Speaker 02

  I'm very well. How are you?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  I am excellent. Would you like me to refer to you as doctor throughout the show or Ronald?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Whatever you prefer.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  All right. Sounds good. Doc, give us your dot coms, websites. Where can people find out more about you on the interwebs?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  RonaldGoldmanPhD.com.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  All right. And give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book, please, sir?

• 3:07Speaker 02

  I wrote this book, The Empathy Evolution, and the motivation for the book is very personal to me. Many years ago, I had psychological problems and often did not express my feelings. A friend informed me about experiential body psychotherapy.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  This unique therapy facilitated reliving early traumatic experiences. I decided to contact a therapist and do it. Over time, I was able to relive and express hidden emotions connected with my infant traumas. For example, I relived my birth.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Really?

• 3:49Speaker 02

  I had a very hard time getting out.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Was it traumatic? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just have to ask before we get down the road too far. Was that traumatic relieving your birth?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Let me tell you about it. I asked my mother later for contact information of the obstetrician. He told me that my mother was given general anesthesia, common in those days. That explained why my mother could not help my birth. After another therapy session of reliving an early trauma, I committed to raising awareness and facilitating changes to improve infant care and avoid early traumas. I also, I also learned about American life compared to other countries. The World Happiness Report, a global survey of citizens in more

• 4:44Speaker 02

  than 140 countries, ranks the United States 23rd. When it comes to happiness, quality of life, well-being and related factors, American life compared to other developed countries has deficiencies. This requires our attention. To improve our quality of life, a new approach is needed. I want to help improve American happiness and well-being for our children. This includes an open-minded, detailed examination of what is lacking. Americans consider the most important problems to be the high cost of living, the economy

• 5:27Speaker 02

  and the government. Children's behavior and the way they are raised was mentioned by only 1% of respondents to a national survey about our problems. Prevention of our problems is almost always ignored.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're in order in denial. That's why I was laughing because there's a huge denial, denial out there.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Let me just say, my book explains that the origins of American personal and social problems are often related to the way children are treated that cause common early traumas. We need to learn from our personal and collective histories, examine how they are connected with existing conditions and create a new approach for making better childcare choices with better results. We also need to break repeating cycles of our problems and explore how to increase our compassion and love. With 500 references, The

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Empathy Evolution supports questioning cultural assumptions, improving our future quality of life and increasing empathy.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. Now, in the title of your book, you, you basically cite a whole lot of ills that are going on in society, I think really rampant right now in 2026. Violence, racism, political corruption, mental illness, and how we need to care more for each other. Have we been whittled down as a society, do you think, to be more selfish, more narcissistic? Maybe this is a, this is a part of the Doris box of social media. Certainly people become more narcissistic and it seems like they become less empathetic and caring to each other because they're willing to say stuff and, and act out in

• 7:18Speaker 01

  a way that isn't always conducive to, I would say, empathy. What's your thoughts on that?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  My thoughts and my research are that the early traumas have really had a widespread effect on American quality of life. Trauma is the psychological result of an extreme adverse experience or repeated adverse experiences. The adult lack of memory before three to four years old is often a sign of early traumas. Surviving trauma typically involves unconsciously keeping very painful memories and feelings from awareness that would be emotionally disturbing. This is emotional repression. There is little awareness of the epidemic

• 8:05Speaker 02

  effects of early traumas on individuals and society. Our early traumatic experiences affect our adult quality of life. Traumatized people often have difficulty noticing and expressing their feelings. This inhibits their empathy and ability to connect with others. Consequently, early traumas have adverse effects on relationships, particularly the primary relationship between the mother and her child.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Now, you, you said you, let, let me just get some commentary if I could. I have a friend who is Indian and he's, he likes to do what I used to do, argue with people that are politically very racist and they espouse racist views. He'll argue with posts that they put up that do the, do the straw man effect of, so the immigrants are, it's very racist sort of presentation posts by those people. And he likes to argue with those people. And does, does racism come from trauma or does it come from being taught to be a racist by parents? It means, or maybe it's a mixture of both?

• 9:18Speaker 02

  I think there's a connection between racism and early trauma with trauma, trauma causing a lower ability to be aware of feelings and not connected to empathy. So obviously racism is connected with a loss of empathy. So there's a connection there. But let me mention, let me mention, please, the effects of the mother-child relationship, which is really the primary relationship. This is the first and fundamental intimate relationship between the mother and infant. And research shows that a strong bond between mother and infant contributes to the child's emotional and social development. The child's self-confidence and empathy are

• 10:02Speaker 02

  also connected to the quality of the relationship with the mother. Significantly, the mother-infant relationship provides a foundation for the child's development and future relationships. The emotional bond connecting the mother and infant is called attachment. When the mother is available, sensitive, loving, and responsive to the infant's needs, attachment quality is high. This is called secure attachment. Research demonstrates that securely attached infants are more sensitive, curious, sociable, and have empathy as toddlers and preschoolers. Now,

• 10:44Speaker 02

  many factors can disrupt the mother-infant bond. It can be disrupted by the mother not wanting the birth. This is relevant to about three out of eight births in this country.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Are you real three out of eight?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  That's it. The bond, the bond can also be disrupted by the infant being separated from the mother.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Unmet biological and psychological needs, maltreatment, and associated traumas. When the mother is not available, sensitive, loving, and responsive to the infant's needs, the infant's distress is not alleviated and attachment quality is low.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  This is called insecure attachment. Although common in the United States, it is often unrecognized and misunderstood. The prevalence of insecure attachment in the United States is significantly higher than in Europe. This results in different infant emotions. For example, in a study comparing hundreds of Finnish and American participants, Finnish infants were significantly higher than American infants on measures of smiling and laughter. American infants were higher on fear. When one is fearful, when they later

• 12:09Speaker 02

  want power and control to support self-interest.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  These differences continue into adulthood. Americans continue to rate higher than Finnish people in fear and other negative feelings. Infants cope with the trauma of insecure attachment by numbing to their needs and emotions. This is, this is unconscious emotional repression.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Consequently, they do not cry, and mothers mistakenly believe they are fine. The adverse effects of commonly unmet needs of infants lead to various adult, social, emotional, and behavioral problems. Most, most notably, low empathy. Therefore, it is critical that we learn more about disrupted bonding and how to prevent it.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Ah, now, I've seen examples of this, and I'm sure you have too, but just to support what you said, I've seen examples where a mother, there was a thing where a mother would be playing with her baby in the controlled experiment, and I've seen people do this on YouTube, it's sick. But they'll, they'll take in, be playing with their, their toddler, and then they'll leave, either leave them alone or sometimes put on a mask. And suddenly, the toddler can't recognize the mother anymore. And it starts to, you can see how the toddler becomes, and, and she doesn't touch the child either. So it has that lack of, of comfort. And so you'll see the child go into emotional distress, start crying, start really freaking out because

• 13:51Speaker 01

  he can't find his mother anymore. And you can see how important that connection is. I think even, wasn't there a study that showed that kids who didn't get hugs or a lot of love as children back in the old days would get rickets or something like that? I don't know if that was really a thing, or you would know more than I would from your studies.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Of, of course, as I'm saying here, the mother-infant relationship is a primary relationship and is a foundation for future relationships. First, I want to offer a clarification here about American cultural practices and, and the mother-infant bond. If you are a parent, upon hearing some of this information, you may be tempted to blame yourself for what you did and did not do in raising your children. Please don't. In this society and in others, parents do the best they can based on what they know, what their culture supports, their personal histories, and other factors. Similarly, professionals who work in related fields are

• 14:53Speaker 02

  subject to personal, professional, and cultural constraints on their activities. Let's have compassion for ourselves and others. I, I can describe a few examples, several, several other American cultural practices that disrupt the mother-infant bond are described in my book, The Empathy Evolution. So may I give the first example?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Please do.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Okay. About 60% of American parents have mu, of American infants, let's get this straight. About 60% of American infants have mothers who work outside the home. Extensive non-maternal care of infants is associated with disrupted mother-infant bonding and other, and other adverse outcomes. The large, long-term study of childcare found that the more time children spend in any of a variety of non-maternal care arrangements during the

• 16:01Speaker 02

  first four and a half years of life, the more problems they have with fighting, cruelty, bullying, and meanness, as reported by mothers, caregivers, and teachers. Non-maternal childcare involves separation, unmet needs, disrupted bond with the mother, and increases the likelihood of reduced empathy and antisocial behavior.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  So that's an example of a disrupted bond from American cultural practice. Would you like to hear another example?

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Can I ask you, can I, can we expand on that last piece a little bit?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I had a psychiatrist on one time, I believe she was a psychiatrist, but yeah, she was. And she had this theory that many women or mothers don't understand sons. And usually, once they start acting like boys, the mother sometimes will withdraw interest because she doesn't understand them, especially today's women. They don't understand men at all, if you listen to them talk, or value them for that matter. And just open TikTok and Instagram on any given day or Facebook, and you'll, you'll see it. But she had this theory, I, she claimed it was set in stone, I'm going to call it a theory, but she had

• 17:24Speaker 01

  this theory that mothers tend to turn away attention from sons because they can't understand them. So they don't quite get the attention they need. And it goes to the daughters because they can understand and relate to women. I don't know if that's true, or do you think that's, you challenge that theory, maybe?

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Yes, I challenge it. Infant needs for male or female infants are not, they have the same needs. These are basic, basic fundamental needs for contact and connection, skin-to-skin contact. And, and we, we do a lot of things in this culture to disrupt the mother-child bond, unfortunately, and perhaps more, more to boys than girls. But I, I can mention something called, sometimes referred to, physical punishment or corporal punishment. This is an adverse American cultural practice. And the examples include slapping, spanking,

• 18:24Speaker 02

  and hitting with objects. Physical punishment conflicts with the recommendations of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychological Association. Listen to this. Sixty-seven countries have adopted national policies against physical punishment of children in all settings. They have found that these policies serve as an effective public education measure. However, in the United States, physical punishment is very common. Researchers report that a large majority of American children have been physically punished by parents.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  This evidence shows that physical punishment involves maltreatment, unmet needs, disrupted bonding, potential trauma, and leads to greater likelihood of reduced empathy and later antisocial behavior. Let me, and I'll listen to this one. In addition, circumcision is still done to about 50% of American male infants. This involves being forcefully restrained and having the penile foreskin cut off. This is extremely painful and traumatic. It's associated

• 19:44Speaker 02

  with over 100 potential complications and risks, including later erectile dysfunction. The removed foreskin is designed for pleasure and has sexual functions. No national medical organization recommends circumcision, and 14 oppose it.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Circumcision results in repressed anger, fear, and disruption of the mother-child bond. For more information, please see circumcision.org.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Thank you. So let me ask you this. There's a lot of people who say, the baby's young, doesn't feel it, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, I don't really, I don't, I don't remember getting kicked in the, in the privates there when I was one to three. But I imagine it does have trauma. What's that old line? The body knows the score. Do you, do you believe that we tend to house this trauma sometimes in our body or maybe mental, mental anchors or triggers or, or pain, fear bonding that we store in our bodies?

• 20:49Speaker 02

  There's no doubt about this. And you know, psychologists are very aware that trauma is an overwhelmingly painful feeling. And what happens is it gets separated from consciousness and repressed. And, and that, that means it gets stored in the body, not in, not in awareness. So these stored traumas, again, repress our general ability to be aware of our feelings and have empathy for other people's feelings. But this, this, for example, contributes to a potential for later violent behavior.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  So infants, infants may develop anger when their attachment needs are not met. Studies, studies show that unmet attachment needs and an angry temperament in infants correlated with later aggression at six to seven years of age.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  In another extended long-term study, boys who were more aggressive than their peers at age eight were found to be more aggressive than their peers at age 30.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Based on this research, the seeds of anger, aggression and violence are planted as early as infancy and associated with low attachment quality.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Listen, French culture does well in satisfying attachment needs. In a study of preschool aggression, French children acted aggressively 1% of the time. American children did so 29% of the time. Not surprisingly, our rate of homicides per 100,000 people is about seven times the rate of some European countries. A researcher reported that it was possible to predict with 80% accuracy, the peaceful or violent tendencies of cultures from a single measure of mother-infant bonding.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Continuous baby carrying on the mother's body throughout the day for the first year of life. When the infant is not permitted to bond with the mother by being in contact with their body, the likelihood of violence and increases, the likelihood of violence increases and the empathy decreases. This suggests using a cloth body wrap or sling instead of a stroller.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Ah, so that keeps them in touch with the body. I even know with my dogs, touch is really important. Like with my dogs, someone taught me a long time ago, this is when I forgot my first husky puppy, like eight months old, or not eight months, eight weeks old. And they're like, it's really important that you either put your hand into the crate of your puppy so that they can sleep on the hand, because what they can do is they can feel your heartbeat and pulse through your skin. And, or you put a clock in there and the clock calms the puppy because it sounds like the heartbeat of the mother. And so I learned with all my puppies, I've done this with five of them now, is to, when they're in the crate as babies, you got to potty train them.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I stick my hand into the crate and I fall asleep with my hand in there. And my puppy will sleep all night long, pretty much on my hand. And it calms them, it helps them sleep. And then even as I raise my, my dogs, I've realized that touch is so important. Hugging them and that touch, and if it's got to be important, if dogs can get it, human beings, that touch is so important. The love, we need that to grow. And, and to, to give you support for your other example that you used about circumcision and the dangers that it has. It's, it's incredulous that we still do it. It's the most medieval thing ever. Certainly if we did that to women in America, that would be put to stop overnight.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  But somehow it's just allowed to continue to neuter men. But a friend of mine, this is a long time ago, was going to get his first child circumcised. And I warned him not to. I said, the trend is, there's kind of this anti-circumcision trend going on right now. This is 20 years ago. And 20 plus years ago, and I said, they shouldn't do it. There's risks involved, blah, blah, blah. So he was like, whatever, religious, we're going to get the circumcision done. So they did it. I warned high hell and upside up down because I knew the child too. And so they got the circumcision on the child. The circumcision was bad. And so they had to do one to two later surgeries years later

• 25:34Speaker 01

  when the child was aware of the pain and what was going on, because he couldn't, he couldn't urinate properly because of the circumcision mess up. I don't know. I always tell the joke, maybe the rabbi sneezed during circumcision. Don't do that. And so 20 years later, guess who's the biggest racist, most hateful person on the planet? That kid. So I think I can equate, I've always wondered what made him so racist and his parents watched Fox TV all day long. So that's part of it. But you can now, now from what you've put forward, I can see the direct correlation between the two. Cause he had to have two different surgeries on his junk and no one wants to have surgery.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  I had a vasectomy when I was, when I got older and it was not fun. I may have trauma for that too.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  So let me just repeat, as I mentioned previously, my website, circumcision.org has a lot of, a lot of very helpful information about that practice. Let me move on to, for example, what, what, what creates political corruption and, and how that affects us? Which is in my, the subtitle of my book. A primary purpose of the constitution, as stated in its opening sentence, is to, quote, promote the general welfare, unquote. However, our political system has significant problems, if you haven't noticed.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Really? 2026, everything's going fine. Gas prices are 10 bucks per gallon. It's, it's great.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Many political actions have adverse effects on the general welfare. The self-interest of the few frequently outweighs attention to the general welfare. Politicians are influenced by wealthy donors. Winning and maintaining elective political positions require raising significant amounts of money. Consequently, politicians, politicians may spend about four hours a day raising money. This relates to the definition of political corruption. The use of elected public positions for personal gain. Political dependence on wealthy donors influences political votes

• 27:51Speaker 02

  and other choices that favor the wealthy donors, not the general welfare.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Some large corporations pay no income taxes on billions of dollars in profits. Pharmaceutical corporations spend the most on political donations compared to other corporate interests. Consequently, Americans pay about three times more for prescription drugs than people in dozens of other countries. Apparently, the early experiences of some politicians have contributed to later reduced empathy for the public welfare.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Hmm. Let me ask you this. In your discussions about, our discussions about this topic today, do you find that those traumas, this seems obvious, but I want to have you kind of give me the doctorate answer. But it seems like these people don't develop emotional intelligence. That's kind of what we see with the racists and a lot of people. They don't seem to have a high emotional intelligence, especially of regulation or emotional self-relate, self-relate regulation. They're easily emotionally triggered, usually very ego-driven. And even if they're males, you see that. So is that, is some of the things we've described here stunted these folks in developing emotional intelligence? Cause I think empathy is a key part of that equation, isn't it for?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Well, empathy is a large part of emotional intelligence. Again, empathy is connected. If we're sensitive to our own feelings, then we're more sensitive to other people's feelings. And again, with the common early traumas that American infants are subjected to, they survive by separating from consciousness, as I've said.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  And that's.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  It's not something children choose. It's just, it's just a survival mechanism.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Based on the way we're designed. And what this is also affect the frequency of mental illness in adults. Let me mention more about this. More than one in four Americans experience mental illness. This is about twice the rate of Europeans. The United States ranks in the top three countries for most depression and anxiety, alcohol and drug use, and other mental illnesses. Efforts to control emotions may include smoking and overeating. Seventy-five percent, seventy-five percent of Americans are overweight.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say you just described America.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Suicide is a common cause of American deaths. About forty-eight thousand in a year. Suicide is the second leading cause of death for people from ages ten to fourteen and twenty-five to thirty-four.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Research shows that the origin of mental illness is associated with the quality of the mother-infant bond. We are born with a need to be close to our mothers. When this bond is weak, negative emotions about the self and others develop, and there are likely to be future emotional difficulties, relationship problems, and lack of empathy throughout life.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Hmm, and, and I think we can see that in today's world. Like I say, you're not, you're almost preaching to the choir at this point, but let me ask you, there was one question I had for you back though when we were discussing, discussing mother attachment bonds. If I could throw you both questions, if you don't mind, and, and they're distant, but I just don't want to lose them. I have really bad ADHD. I've been meaning to ask you for a while. So, one of them is, there's a lot of things about attachment styles now in dating. Like in my dating markets, there's, there's secured attached, unsecured attached, unsecured, where people run away when they get close to relationships. Is some of what we've been talking about here attached to that? And my second question is nursing.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Is, is there a difference in trauma to the child with a C-section? And if a mother doesn't physically nurse the baby through the breasts?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, those are discussed in my book. C-sections and decades ago, C-sections were like maybe five percent of American births. Now it's one out of three.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Now, why do you, why do you think there's more C-sections now? Well, they take less time than waiting for the mother to give a birth naturally. And doctors would rather not wait around for that to happen. They also make more money with C-sections. About double what they would get paid for a natural birth. Okay, now getting on to, again, getting back to the basic recommendations in my book. We need to do what's natural, not what's cultural. So, what's natural is breastfeeding. It's what the baby needs. In addition to mother's milk, there's also the strong connection

• 33:05Speaker 02

  of the skin contact during the breastfeeding.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Sucking on a, I mean, babies, sometimes mothers will hand the baby a bottle and then walk away and let the baby suck on the bottle without even being in contact with the mother. We, we gotta take a second look at these things and recognize what we're doing is cultural and not, not we're just question our cultural practices. We've got a long way to go, but my book is a great support for people who are willing to question society and improve the quality of our lives. So, so let's, let's move on to what perpetuates our harmful cultural practices.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Okay, when we don't feel, our thinking is affected and leads to false beliefs. There is also a compulsion to do to our children what was done to us when we were children. Because American cultural practices are common, we assume they must be acceptable and correct for the child. This supports conformity. In addition, some parents believe that denying satisfaction of children's needs teaches them independence, makes children less needy, or avoids spoiling our children. These are cultural myths.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  There is no evidence to support these beliefs.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Wow. Yeah, so what, what do you recommend to people who maybe feel like they? Oh, let, let me ask you this if I could, please. Now, in the body knows a score and stuff. A lot of times, and I think you alluded to this in your opening education, that when, when people have trauma, sometimes it doesn't register to them personally right away. Cause sometimes we're too young is the theory. Our brains know that they can't handle this trauma right now. So they bury it, okay, they erase it a little bit. And then later in life, when you grow to a point, it seems to come forward when the, when, I guess your mind thinks that you're okay with dealing with it? Maybe?

• 35:22Speaker 02

  We don't, we don't have a choice about how to deal with trauma.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, the body does what it needs to do to survive.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  The, the early traumas. And what it does, as, as with traumas in general, is it separates them from consciousness. Okay, and the separation diminishes our sensitivity to our feelings and the feelings of others. So, we survive traumas, but there's a very negative impact. So, let me, let me mention what future parents can do to try to improve our quality of care. We can ask three questions about a childcare decision. Is it natural? If we trust and respect nature, we will not lose our own nature. Second, does it satisfy the child's needs?

• 36:16Speaker 02

  This is a high priority if the child is to develop to his or her potential. And then, does it support the mother-child bond? When the bond between the child and the mother are disrupted, the bond between the child and humanity is disrupted. Consequently, there is reduced empathy and increased potential for personal and social problems. From the child's perspective, the mother-child relationship is primary, and its quality cannot be duplicated.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, we see a lot of interesting things going on in the, in the world today. One of the things I've been keeping tabs on, I track a lot of different things. But there seems to be this anti-mother, anti-having children, anti-family sentiment that's out there. There are literally armies of very hateful feminists who attack trad wives. I don't know if you're familiar with the term, but these are women who do the traditional roles where their husbands work. They stay at home, they raise their children, they make dinners, they cook clean. They do the things that traditionally women done for eons, eons of times. And they're very good at it. It's kind of why, they, they, they can see things that most men can't. And it's their nest. That's kind of why it's important to them. It's their nest. It's a woman's nest, a woman's home.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  And we see different mothers killing their children. The Lindsay Clancy case was this year, I'm sure you didn't miss that. It was hard not to see it, pretty much the whole nation took a position on it. We see that in a bunch of other copycat killings that took, that took place after that. Cause feminists put a $1.3 million bounty on killing your kids through GoFundMe to, for Lindsay Clancy. Is, do we, do we have a new? Hey, Google, stop. Do we have a new generation of women that are struggling with motherhood? And having empathy to really connect with their children? Cause I see this a lot, especially in single mothers. Maybe, maybe I'm, I don't date married women, and they seem to do fairly fine with their kids.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  But I see a lot of this disconnect in single mothers. Especially now, they're really focused on social media more. And, and I've been in a lot of single mother homes. So, I've dated a lot over thirty-five years. So, are we seeing an epidemic where mothers are having a hard time connecting with their children? Et cetera, et cetera?

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yes, it's an epidemic, and it's, it's not new. It's been going on for generations. And we keep passing on the pain to the next generation. As I've said, we tend to treat our children the way the parents were treated when they were children. We've got to find a way to support improving our quality of life. And then, of course, this includes strengthening the relationship and bond between the child and the mother. So, we must provide cultural support to meet the needs of mothers and families for them to be able to implement the changes I've been talking about. A good, a good place to start would be to improve our maternal leave policies, which are by far the worst of any developed country.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Specifically, our national government requires employers to provide at least twelve weeks of unpaid leave. By comparison, several European countries offer one year of paid leave. What a difference. The United States is the only industrialized country that provides only unpaid leave as a national policy. Other forms of cultural support would include more and improved parenting and child development education, and making fulfillment of children's needs a higher priority.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Caring for children is a collective responsibility.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  If we are going to improve our quality of life, we must reduce trauma, maltreatment, separation, unmet needs, and resulting disrupted bonding, starting at birth. Much of this information has been suppressed and ignored for decades. Who can help change things and make a difference by communicating with others? And offering social support to family and friends who may have children in the future? My website, ronaldgoldmanphd.com, has additional information, including videos, podcasts, and blogs. And of course, my book is on Amazon.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  And with love and commitment, let's advocate for changing our beliefs and practices to better serve children. And we will help create a more peaceful, compassionate, and empathetic society.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  I agree. Some people are citing in comments that there's a lot of ills in America right now. Costs, minimum wage, gold, things of that nature. And they're claiming we can't afford to care about empathy. From what you're talking about, the reason we're having those financial problems is because of empathy. And hopefully, this gentleman will listen to the whole show and read your book, so he can understand what you're saying here. But I can see that. You can see that our culture has just been collapsing over the last 60 years. I would say since, especially since Reagan and trickle-down economics wiped out most of the middle class. And now, seeing it wiped out again. Thank you very much, Ronald, for coming to the show. Give people a final pitch out to pick up your book. I think you cited your dot com.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  And I'll let you wrap as we go out.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  All right. Thanks very much for the opportunity to join you and share the information. And I wish those listening and watching with their next generation.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we need to, we need to course correct here, folks. Course correct. And we all need to try and find empathy. Buy our author's books and get into the stuff that he is studying and all that good stuff and what he's been sharing with you here today. The Empathy Evolution: Preventing Violence, Racism, Political Corruption, and Mental Illness by Creating More Caring People. And when people are in trauma response, and they're being ugly and vicious, and I know what that feels like, because I had childhood trauma too, that it was unresolved, please go see a therapist. The best thing to do, probably, Doctor, I think you'd agree with me on, is go see a professional licensed psychotherapist or psychologist, whatever the proper term is, for your trauma.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Even if you don't think you have some, go see him.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  So I, it's good to know that I'm probably, I just realized that I probably have trauma from my vasectomy, even though I, I was knocked out. It was an operation. I was not awake during the thing. Would I still have trauma, Doc, from my vasectomy?

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Doc?

• 43:13Speaker 02

  What's the question?

• 43:14Speaker 01

  My question was, is I was joking a little bit about how I might have trauma from my vasectomy, since we were talking about circumcision trauma. But I was knocked out in a surgical thing for my vasectomy. I didn't do the usual thing. I, I did not want to have the memory of that in my brain. But I still have trauma from my vasectomy. I'm just having fun a little bit here at the end of the show. I'm getting some, I'm getting some free personal advice.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, all right. Well, thank you very much, Ronald, Doctor, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  I appreciate it also. Thanks a lot.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Great discussion. And thanks so much for tuning in. Order up his book where refined books are sold for the show to your family, friends, and relatives, or you'll lay awake, sleep at night going, why don't I refer the Chris Voss Show to my friends and help the show? And the guilt will haunt you for the rest of your life. No, I'm just kidding. Jesus Christ, this show makes traumas. Anyway, guys, order up his book, so you can get resolved to those traumas too, as well. Go to Goodreads.com, or Chris Voss Facebook.com, LinkedIn.com, and YouTube.com, all forward slash Chris Voss, one word, the original Chris Voss. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Voss Show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not endorsement or review of any kind.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning: Consuming too much of the Chris Voss Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed.