Pod Insights Change Wired 🏄Fear To Purpose: unlocking your potential with Mindset Training Toolkit from Big Wave Surfer Matt Bromley. About this episode What happens when the thing you're most afraid of is also the thing that gives your life the most meaning? Matt Bromley chases storms for a living. Literally. He tracks weather systems forming across the globe, and when the wave looks big enough, he flies in, straps on an inflation vest, and paddles into waves three to seven storeys tall. Besides getting all the titles you can imagine in the Big Surfer World - Matt spent almost 20 years learning how to work with fear instead of around it to...
Transcript 10,118 words · 2 speakers
0:09 Speaker 00 Hello and welcome back to Change Wired Podcast. My name is Angela Sharina, I'm your host, I'm your Health Mindset Executive Life Coach 360, someone who is absolutely dedicated to learning more about unlocking, figuring out how to use more of our potential and live life with purpose. And that is why I've been super excited and been looking forward to share this podcast for a while now. My guest today chases storms for the living, and I don't say that often, not metaphorically, quite literally.
0:53 Speaker 00 He tracks weather systems where big waves are forming, and then, and then he gets on a plane, often landing the night before, and pedals out to serve them, three, four, even seven stories high kind of waves. My guest's name is Matt Bromley, someone who, who is from South Africa, where I've been residing for the past three years of my life. Matt is a professional big wave surfer, someone who is a kind of surfer who can be only compared to a multiple Olympic champion
1:34 Speaker 00 if that kind of sport was in Olympics. Matt, someone who has spent almost 20 years training his mind and body for moments most of us will never choose to come close to. And here is why I wanted Matt on this show. This episode isn't really about surfing at all. It's an episode about fear and everything that's on the other side of it, which actually quite a lot might be the most meaningful things.
2:11 Speaker 00 When I heard Matt speaking at one of the entrepreneurial events in Cape Town, I heard this phrase, "Our big moments of purpose lie on the other side of our fears." And when I heard this, I instantly wanted to lean in and learn more. And most importantly, I wanted to understand how Matt manages his mind. So he leans into that fear a lot more than regular people. So he gets to live his most meaningful and purposeful life. We get into how Matt prepares for his big wave surfing events.
2:56 Speaker 00 And we focus a lot, not just on physical training, though there is plenty of that and it's important, but his mindset training that captivated me. How Matt visualizes what he calls his hero moments before every big surf. How he learned to catch his stories that his own mind tells him under pressure that are not always the stories that are helpful to do his best in life-threatening situations. Matt talks about how he learned to rewrite them in real time. And how he learned to move from anxiety into excitement, which it turns out are almost the same feeling in the body.
3:39 Speaker 00 And the difference is entirely in the story we choose to believe, we choose to tell ourselves.
3:48 Speaker 00 We also get into some deeper personal moments and the next big wave metaphorically that Matt is about to ride right now. We talk about the loss of Matt's brother a couple of years ago and how that reshaped what actually matters to him more. How Matt's stepping into a completely new kind of big wave, coaching teenage boys on imposter syndrome and all kinds of diseases, quote unquote, of the mind, which makes him, as he honestly admitted, just as nervous, if not more, as some of the big waves he serves.
4:29 Speaker 00 If you ever stood on the edge of something that scared you, a decision, a conversation, a version of your life you haven't quite stepped into yet, I think you're going to see yourself in this conversation.
4:43 Speaker 00 Even if you've never seen a wave bigger than what breaks on your local beach. And most importantly, you're going to learn how to train your mind, how to train your internal dialogue, your mindset, which then conditions your body and everything that you're going to do. So that you stepping into more moments of your fear. So then you get to live the most purposeful, extraordinary, unlocking the most of your potential kind of life. So let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Matt Bromley.
5:26 Speaker 00 Matt, welcome to Change Wired Podcast. So excited to have you here.
5:31 Speaker 01 Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here too.
5:33 Speaker 00 Maybe let's start with a little bit of backstory, because probably not everyone on this podcast knows who Matt Bromley is. Can you tell our listeners? Yeah, so who are you? What do you do in the world? How did it all started?
5:49 Speaker 01 So I'm a proud father and husband of two kids, a three year old and a five year old. I live in Comicki, which is about forty five minutes south of Cape Town. And yeah, I'm a professional big wave surfer. So I track storms that are going, forming around the world. And when it looks like they're going to produce really big waves, then I fly over and I often land the evening before. And then I have a media team with me and we document these big swirls. We surf these big waves and create movies and media. And yeah, I'm also now in the speaking game. So I do quite a bit of public speaking. And I'm also entering the coaching space as well at the moment. I work with teen, teen boys.
6:33 Speaker 01 And yeah, that's a little bit about me.
6:36 Speaker 00 Well, I don't know. What, not often do I get to talk to someone who is a professionist, big wave surfer, right? It's quite a, quite a title, probably not so many people in the world doing that. But how did it come to be? Like, when did it start? How long have you been doing that?
6:56 Speaker 01 Well, I grew up in Cormac, which is a really great kind of place to be to get into surfing and also into big wave surfing. Like, I was in a house on the beach and right about a kilometre out to sea, there's a, there's a big wave called Sunset, which gets up to, the waves get about three, four storeys high out there. They get, they get huge. And from when I was very young, I could see those big waves breaking out there and people surfing it. And but at the time, growing up and at school, I thought I would never do that. It just looked really cool. But it was almost like the vision was paved there before me. And my dad, he's been surfing now
7:35 Speaker 01 for sixty two years. He started when he was ten. And he would drag me out to, to surf some of the slightly, like, I would say the medium sized waves. And from a young age, I was, I really enjoyed pushing myself in, in those bigger waves. And yeah, so lots of little stepping stones, getting into it early and working my way up. And suddenly I find myself out at Dungeons, which is the really big wave we have off Hart Bay. It delivers some of the biggest waves in the world. And I had my first session out there when I was seventeen years old and had a very bad experience. I got, I got five huge waves crashing on my head that I felt like I was
8:18 Speaker 01 close to drowning and I actually was going to get out of the water, get back on the boat and have nothing more to do with big wave surfing. And while I was paddling to get out of the water, I caught the, the biggest wave of my life at that time. And it was such an incredible ride for me and experience. And that kind of opened up the whole door for me of, of big wave surfing. And from that moment onward, really, I started to train and prepare mentally and physically for big waves. And when I mean big waves, it's, I'm chasing these waves that are three storeys up to seven storeys high.
9:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is. It is hard to imagine. It's like a moving mountain of water. Yeah, and we're trying to catch these things.
9:07 Speaker 00 And was it the moment, you know, when you were seventeen years old? Like, when was that moment that you realized, you know, this is the thing that I'm doing it, that I'm doing for life? Like, how did that happen? How did that, I don't know, feel? Because so many people, the reason I'm asking also, so many people are looking for, you know, these days for purpose, for meaning, for like their thing. And they're not sure often how to approach that. And how do you know if that's like the thing? How did it happen for you?
9:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it's, for me, it was, it took quite a radical experience, I think, as I, as I mentioned. Like, I felt like I was gonna drown, you know? And, and then suddenly I had that incredible ride. I, I, I strongly believe that we all created for a purpose. And a lot of people have differing, differing beliefs on that. But I think I would have found my way to it eventually if it wasn't even that one session. But yeah, it's, even when I grew up, I was, I was surfing smaller waves and competitions. It was all you're getting judged on tricks and things. And I enjoyed the surfing, but I felt like my passion wasn't really coming alive. And so I carried on searching. And then I think I really found it in, in, in big wave surfing.
10:22 Speaker 01 And yeah, I think a lot of us, like, our, our passion, it's, it's, it's powerful within us. And I think a lot of the time, maybe we scared to take those steps towards finding our passion. But I think a lot of us know what it might be. But maybe there's things that are holding us back from moving into that space. And I understand, like, people want security, they want the comfort of a, I don't, maybe even it's like a, a well-paying job, you know, or consistency, but. Yeah, I think a lot of us know where maybe our purpose lies. But sometimes we're scared to maybe answer the questions of how do we get there? Or what is, what does that life look like, living in that purpose?
11:03 Speaker 00 And you talk a lot about, you know, fear and you have this quote also that I love. Our big moments of purpose lie on the other side of our fears. Right. Can you speak more about that? I guess what I'm trying to also maybe talk more about is that sometimes people think like, well, if that's my thing, I would just feel like doing that all the time.
11:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
11:26 Speaker 00 It's gonna be this dreadful experience.
11:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:29 Speaker 00 Can you talk to that? Yeah. Why you, oh, why you think so much about fear and this like notion?
11:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:34 Speaker 00 No, actually, your purpose might be the very, the most scary, the scariest thing that you get to do.
11:41 Speaker 01 Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, a good example of that is people ask me, what is, what's your favorite wave to surf? And I always say my favorite is this wave called Jaws in Hawaii. And it's, I don't have fun when I'm there, but it's the place that I fear the most, but also the place I've had the most fulfilling moments, most purposeful moments of my life. And the waves are huge and scary, but at the same time with that, I've found this incredible sense of purpose out there, riding those big waves. And I think that we called to live a life that's really big. And in order to step into that life, we have to stretch ourselves. And as you mentioned, it's not gonna just be like, oh, I feel like doing this.
12:23 Speaker 01 It's gonna be fun and I'm gonna enjoy it, you know, it's not, I don't, it's really not like that. I've found time and time again, I have to stretch myself, I have to encounter fear. And I've been surfing big waves for almost twenty years and I still get really scared. Every time there's, there's big waves coming and I have to face fear, I have to grapple with it. I have to try and move through the anxiety, like one of the things I talk about moving from anxiety into excitement. And I really have to grapple with it. And then, once I get to the other side of that, that's when I've had my biggest moments of breakthrough. Caught my, that big wave that I wanted, but in surfing, but also in other parts of my life,
13:05 Speaker 01 I've found time and time again, I've had to really, really face fear and move through it. And then on the other side, I've found my best moments and my big moments of purpose, so. It doesn't, I don't think it just falls into place naturally. I think it takes a lot of effort, being intentional, but also definitely leaving our comfort zone and going into a new space, which is, which is scary.
13:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, you know, it is scary and for you, it's also very, very much life threatening, like literally, right? You can die there. And yet you overcome this, you know, fear over and over and over again, and you get back there. I think like what I'm curious about, when, how did you like the first time? And maybe you remember that, maybe not, but you were faced with this fear, right? Why? How did you decide to get to that aside? And also like the follow up question, like, why do you think so many people stuck on this side get stuck, right?
14:08 Speaker 01 On the wrong side of it.
14:09 Speaker 00 Yes, exactly.
14:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, I, I'm, I'm a very unlikely candidate for being a big wave surfer because even from a young age, I was always nervous of things and scared to try new things and shy with people. And I'm still very conservative by nature. So I think I, I didn't count to fear quite a lot being young. Cause I was, when I was younger, because I was just scared of a lot of things. But I started to see that as I, I think there was a mix of being like fearful, but also a, a drive to achieve my full potential. I really, I'm, I'm very like disciplined and driven to really achieve my full potential. So there, there were those two things at play in my life.
14:55 Speaker 01 And yeah, I was often feeling fear and then I would, most of the time I would actually let the fear get the bed of me. And I would shy away from situations. But then I think that experience with that I had with dungeons when I was seventeen was a really big breakthrough moment for me. Where that was the first time I felt real fear, when I saw that thirty foot wall of water tiring over me about to crash on my head. And at the time I had no tools to deal with it, my.
15:26 Speaker 01 Adrenaline went through the roof and I was petrified, you know, that was the first time I really felt that deep fear. But then moving through that and then catching that that big wave, I found when I chose to face my fear, my purpose came alive. And that was, I think, a big moment for me. And it's not this, this living a life of purpose is not going to come easy. And that was a big shift for me. I think that fear is going to be a part of the process over and over again. It's just you never, people talk about overcoming fear, but I don't think you really do. I think it's always going to be something knocking on the door. And yeah, we've got to be prepared to to kind of keep moving forward, even though the fear is still there.
16:10 Speaker 00 Yeah. And you know, speaking of the process and the tools, in your talks that I attended one of them, you speak a lot about, you know, strategies that you learn, that you that you follow, that you use to overcome that fear, to lean into that and to get on the other side of it, right? Can you share with people some of those strategies, maybe your whole process on that? Okay, how do you deal with fear these days? So it doesn't stop you and it doesn't sort of shrink your or worsen your performance, but instead like enhances you and maybe opens up the opportunity to to to to fulfill your purpose and do your best?
16:52 Speaker 01 Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think I'll share two things that really help. The first one is visualization, and I use a lot of visualization. And I kind of feel like the visualization takes me to the other side of my fear. And I think for a lot of us, we we focus on the size of the challenge, the size of the storm, the fear around it, obstacles. I try to visualize what could be on the other side of that. So the reward, the opportunity, the big wave, whatever that looks like. And I I put myself there. I feel all the senses. I I if if for instance, I'm going to this wave called jaws.
17:33 Speaker 01 I will I will visualize my whole routine, waking up in the morning and going down to the wave and the warmth in the air and the ocean and the saltiness in the air. And like the everything that's going on, I'll try to bring my senses into visualize every detail. And and then I'll visualize my dream wave that I'm paddling into. And I and I catch that wave and I'll visualize that dream wave over and over again. And that's really helps me to kind of to get excited instead of thinking of that storm and just wanting to avoid it because my natural tendency, when I think of a storm, I want to stay away from it. So my visualization really takes me to the exciting part of it, to the opportunity that's in it. And yeah, that that for me has been very helpful.
18:18 Speaker 01 So I call that visualizing my hero moment. And I think we would all kind of have some sort of hero moment that we can visualize in whatever we doing. And then, yeah, the the other thing that I do is I really try to be aware of the the stories that I'm telling myself in my head and my internal dialogue. And I think so many of us are very unaware of the thoughts in our minds. And our thoughts are really the start that that drives our emotion. And then our emotion drives our behavior and our decision making and our actions. And all the the stories in our minds are so if they're so influenced by our upbringing
18:59 Speaker 01 and experience we had last week, our siblings, parents, friends, where we live, what we believe, everything plays a part in in shaping the stories then that we tell ourselves about challenges that we're facing. And I think if we're unaware of the stories we're telling ourselves, those stories might be be totally wrong. And a lot of the time, the stories we're telling ourselves about situations are actually not true. And maybe and it's often the worst case scenario that could happen. Humans are are naturally very biased.
19:33 Speaker 01 To, I mean, our instinct is trying to keep us alive. So any kind of threat really gets emphasized. And that becomes the focus, right? Because our body wants to keep us safe. Our mind wants to keep us safe. But the chances are, a lot of the time, those stories are not going to happen. So being aware of the stories in my mind and trying to reframe that story into a positive story. So for instance, it might look like I might be telling myself, I can't do this. The waves are going to be too big for me. I shouldn't be here. And then I have to reframe that and I'll say, actually, I was born for this and I've trained for this and I'm ready for these big waves that are coming. So every thought that comes in, I'll try by being aware of it, I can catch it.
20:17 Speaker 01 And then I can reframe it into a positive thought. And I'm really trying to move from a state that of anxiety, which is my normal
20:25 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:25 Speaker 01 place where I live in the face of a challenge and move into excitement. And I found that excitement is, for me, is the best mood, the best emotion for performance. So I try and build excitement before a big challenge.
20:42 Speaker 00 Yes, and
20:45 Speaker 00 excitement, and I guess what I'm hearing also approach, not avoid kind of emotion. And I often find myself like in a matter of seconds, if I decide to like take action and decide I'm excited, I'm getting into that. My mind immediately started like creating solutions and ideas about how to best approach it, right? Let's say, public speaking, okay, how can I engage the audience? Like, where should I look like this thing? Whereas when I'm sort of doubting and anxiety and thinking about what can go wrong, my mind is like, okay, how can I get back to safety as fast as possible, right? Which is not really helpful.
21:23 Speaker 01 And we want to just avoid that whole situation entirely when we think like that, right?
21:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, I guess what I'm, what I'm trying to say is like, the mind, it's it's going to be on your team depending on what sort of you choose to focus on. Like, let's say, I'm deciding I'm in goal mode and it's time to take action. So the mind will figure out the best way to prepare you for that. And if you're still choosing sort of, or leaving an option of not doing that, that's where the mind, okay, let's stay in the comfort zone. Let's save the energy or let's save our, I don't know, well-being resources and comfort.
21:58 Speaker 01 But but just on that on that topic, like I I used to think that I would naturally, my mind would naturally try and prepare me for scary situations or for big challenges, but I found that my mind is actually not preparing me, but it's trying to keep me away from storms and challenges, which are often the very things that we need in our lives to to grow. So even though I was, I used to approach a storm and I would hope that my, I wouldn't take note of what's going on in my mind. I would think that I would, my mind would naturally be working to get me ready for it, but I found
22:38 Speaker 01 even by not actively building a mindset, I was still building a mindset, but it was just a negative one. Because I still had thoughts and stories about what I was going into. And there was a mindset being built, which was, which was not good for me. So by actively choosing the thoughts in my mind and I'm actively building a mindset that gets me ready for for it. So that was quite a big shift for me to actively build instead of passively let things just happen.
23:07 Speaker 00 You know, I guess what I'm hearing is you become, you know, you became really aware of A, that the stories that you have in your head, they're not you, they are like, you know, just stories that come up for whichever reason, as you mentioned, you know, because of your life experience or somebody told you something, etc. And they just, but but it's not like the whole you and the essence of you. And then the second thing I'm hearing is you realize at some point, hey, there is a choice. What stories do I focus on? What stories do I keep? What stories do I allow to sort of linger? And yeah, the choices.
23:46 Speaker 01 And those stories also, they build neural pathways in our head, in our minds. So we
23:54 Speaker 01 We whatever stories we are running through our head over and over again, that's the that's the highway that's built up in our in our brain. So that can also, if we have a lot of negative self-talk or or or a negative outlook on facing challenges, there there would be a lot of work that needs to be done in our minds to try and build new neural pathways.
24:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:16 Speaker 01 Um, towards like a positive outlook.
24:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, I always, you know, it helps me to visualize those things as well. Like when I think of any thought pattern that I don't wanna have in my mind, I always think about it like sort of a muscle that you build. And if you say if you flex it all the time, it's gonna get stronger. And if you don't do anything with that, it's gonna get weaker and weaker and weaker. And yeah, whenever I'm trying to change anything in my mind that I don't like, that isn't serving me, I'm always like, imagine, okay, this is my workout. Which one, which muscle do I wanna flex?
24:48 Speaker 01 Yeah. That's a good way to think about it, yeah.
24:53 Speaker 00 The, you know, one other thing that I'm curious about, because I read a lot about that is using negative visualization to prepare yourself for, you know, challenging moments or when things go wrong, or, you know, when things don't sort of the outcomes are are not the best you hoped for. Like, do you do any sort of that kind of visualization? Meaning going through the moments, well, I don't know, things go wrong and how you deal with that if that happens?
25:24 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
25:24 Speaker 00 Which they say helps to sort of deal with stress, because then you're ready for anything.
25:30 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. So I I I visualize all the bad stuff long before the event. So while I'm training, I'm I while I'm say, if I'm in the swimming pool and I'm training for being held under the water, I visualize that whole experience of being held under by a big wave, and it's really not a nice place to be, you know? Feels like you're in a washing machine and your your limbs feel like they're gonna get ripped off and it's it's not a nice place to be. So I do, I visualize that in my training and I take myself to those places that I don't want to be. But then, once I see the storm or the event approaching, I will try to only visualize my hero moment.
26:14 Speaker 00 Mm hmm.
26:14 Speaker 01 Because I don't know if this this might just be a personal thing, but I need as much confidence and positivity.
26:22 Speaker 01 That I can get. And as soon as I visualize bad stuff happening, worst case scenario, that is not good for me. So as long as I'm prepared for the the things that can go wrong, uh that preparation has to take place long before.
26:38 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:39 Speaker 01 I'm prepared for it, but then I want to be in the most confident space I can be in. So only visualize my hero moment leading up to it.
26:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, but but good, you know, I think it's good to talk about that. And I think we don't talk enough about those also visualizing and preparing for negative moments, which I believe actually one of the biggest parts of being able to then uh do our best and approach those challenging situations. Like I I remember listening something about, I think his name is Michael Phelps, who's like a swimming Olympic champion. And that he visualized every and trained for every single thing that can go wrong, like water getting under his glasses or like something else. And actually, at the one of the events, water did get into his glasses and he had to like deal with that and still won the medal, right?
27:30 Speaker 00 And and
27:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:32 Speaker 00 From my personal experience also, whenever I'm about to like do public speaking or something, if I know that I can still do the thing without my slides when microphone is off and and that actually did happen, my clicker not working, etc. When I know that I still can do that, like that's where I'm in my floor. I'm like, whatever, you know,
27:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:55 Speaker 00 I'll survive this thing.
27:57 Speaker 01 Sure. No, I think that's great to, I think it's great to prepare for those. But again, I would say those that needs to be covered long in advance.
28:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:07 Speaker 01 Because I feel like I I I feel like we all humans are kind of tending towards that we have self critics and.
28:19 Speaker 01 Negativity bias and I feel like in, in, in the, at least in the days leading up to whatever we're going to be doing, that building a positive mindset is, I've found has been very, very important.
28:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
28:30 Speaker 01 But sure, be prepared for the worst, hundred percent, but do it long in advance.
28:35 Speaker 00 Well, but being prepared, by the way, can you also maybe tell us, tell the listeners about your preparation? Not just the visualization, but you probably do a lot in terms of, and I remember in your talk, you mentioned some, some of it. Do a lot in terms of like physical preparation and, you know, learning how to control your biology. So you could again show up as your best on that wave. Like, can you, can you speak more towards that? So people also like, it's not like you, you know, decided to jump on a wave and it all worked out from there.
29:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I kind of have these non-negotiables of preparation, which is my physical training and my breath work. So for instance, on that part, I would say things like, some of the things I do, I'll get in the swimming pool. I'll get my, I do sprints, swimming to get my heart racing, to mimic the adrenaline that I have in the big wave environment. And then I'll swim under the water for the length of a long hold down. So how long that wave might hold me down at the longest. And while I'm swimming under the water, I visualize being pushed down into the darkness. I take myself through all the uncomfortable feelings of really needing to breathe, my chest burning, my heart racing, but I can't breathe until
29:53 Speaker 01 the wave lets me up. I take myself to those places over and over again, so that when it happens in real life, I don't panic. So yeah, breath work, physical training, that's one part of it. My, making sure my equipment is, I can trust it, like my, my, I work with my surfboard shapers and we've got an inflation vest when we surf big waves, so I can pull a cartridge and, sorry, I pull a tag and it punctures a cartridge of compressed air and it will inflate around my body with air. Making sure all my equipment is ready. Some of the things in my mind that I talked about visualization, self-talk, that's very important. And then also, some of the things I do is I analyze the storms that are
30:38 Speaker 01 coming. So even a storm would seem like something that's so unpredictable, but there are patterns. And I compare the storms that I'm seeing to past storms. And I look at the numbers, I look at the energy, the swell heights, the direction of the swell, the wind, the tides, the dangers at each place that I'm going to. I even know, for instance, when I surf out of dungeons, out here, it's just out of my window here, I know exactly which part of the hill and which bush on the mountain I'm going to line up with. That tells me how far left and right I am while I'm out there in the ocean. And I look sideways and I line up the slope of the hill and the other mountains behind it at Fish Hook. And
31:21 Speaker 01 I know exactly how far out to sea I am. So I really try to build this whole foundation of readiness that I try, I ask myself, am I storm ready or am I not? And I try to have all these non-negotiables in place before I go into that storm.
31:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, this is, you know, it's also very important to learn about that because in different pursuits with a lot of unknowns and a lot of uncertainties, sometimes it feels or looks like from the outside that it's just, you know, you're sort of hoping for luck. But actually, yes, luck is always, you know, a factor, but also a lot of preparation and thinking and analysis goes into that. So you actually succeed more than than not and you get out of it alive.
32:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, hundred percent. And, and when we prepare, our minds work so much better. You know, we have that underlying confidence. We almost feel like we deserve to succeed. If sometimes.
32:22 Speaker 01 When we're not prepared, we just honestly feel like we don't deserve it, you know? And that can be so undercutting as what's our performance. So I really feel like all of the preparation, it's really to get my mind in the right place to go and perform.
32:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, it kind of, you know, reminds me, although obviously very different. When I roller blade, when I finally like learned all the, you know, techniques and tricks, et cetera. That's where I finally could let go and my mind also could focus on the moment and addressing like the small issues that come up. Versus thinking about like, how do I, I don't know, put my foot or how do I break? How do I not fall here, right? And I feel like in a lot of uncertain situations in life, it's like, once you have mastery of those basics and you know where you are, you know, your sort of terrain and everything. That's where your brain can actually now get into the situation and analyze things as they come up.
33:15 Speaker 01 Sure, yeah. And I think that that is a very important point, like all of the other stuff becomes maybe second nature. You can even enjoy the moment a lot more. You can, you can absorb all the things going on. And then also when things go wrong, you can, you can remain calm and you can make good decisions, right? You can adapt and change as you need because you, you're prepared. And yeah, I've always felt like the more prepared I am, the more grit I have. So I, I have so much more resilience as well when I'm, when things go wrong, if I'm prepared. That really helps a lot to, to be able to bounce back quicker as well.
33:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, I guess, you know, as they say also, if you want to feel less fear in any situation, you wanna just run through it, prepare and go through the experience as much as possible. So then that, that whole experience becomes more like, as you said, second nature and something that where you can feel almost like you're doing something out of habit, not just reacting on the, on the spot.
34:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, for sure.
34:19 Speaker 00 You, you know, Matt, like besides obviously surfing, you do a lot of work that you already mentioned in terms of. Trying to send certain message into the world, right? You're speaking, now you you you started doing coaching and then you have movie over the edge. Like, what's what's for you in doing all of this work? What are you trying to get into the world? Like, what's the message?
34:46 Speaker 00 What do you want people to sort of maybe do more of because of your work?
34:53 Speaker 01 Ah, it's a good question.
34:56 Speaker 01 I think that I'm trying to encourage people. One of the main messages that I also tell my boys is,
35:05 Speaker 01 like, my son will say, I'm scared, but I did it anyway.
35:09 Speaker 01 To, yeah, to to to really like take heart and have courage. And I I think that nothing great or big will come will come to us unless we are willing to stretch ourselves. That fear is a part of the process. And if we want to do something significant, we really do have to put ourselves out there. We have to take risks. And hopefully, those are those are good risks. I think things like preparation and experience help us to decide when it's a good risk to take. But, yeah, we really do. I believe we're all born with with gifts, with talents, and that we we should be using those to do something amazing with them.
35:51 Speaker 01 Whether whether we're doing something inspiring ourselves or we're using that to help other people. Yeah, it's it's it's so important that we're proactive with. Life is so short, you know, and it's so so important to to go big, I think.
36:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, go big and, you know, serve your big waves as the
36:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:13 Speaker 00 Instead of avoiding.
36:13 Speaker 01 We all we all have big waves in our lives, and I think we kind of all know what those are. So, yeah, just an encouragement to surf your big wave, whatever that looks like.
36:23 Speaker 00 Well, speaking, you know, of those big waves that people that might be approaching people in different stages of their life. What would you recommend people to do? Maybe like step one, step two, step three, they are, you know, facing their big waves, whether that's work or relationships or maybe health or whatever that is like. What what are the first few things that you that you think people should should do to to to do it in the right way and to approach it? And to have this beautiful transformational experience?
36:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
36:59 Speaker 01 I think that a good starting point is to is to be prepared, like for what know what you're going into, you know, be prepared and
37:09 Speaker 01 and that make sure that the the reward or the thing on the other side of it is worth it, is worth the effort, you know. I think a lot of people,
37:21 Speaker 01 a lot of people unfortunately work or they do things, but they actually don't really know why they are doing it or what the purposes and they put a lot of effort into something, but they don't know kind of why. So I think knowing what you're working towards, what's on the other side of the fear, what's on the other side of the challenge, that must mean something to you. That that needs to be important to you and and that can also that can be
37:47 Speaker 01 very motivate motivating to get you through the tough times when you kind of have in mind the reward or the opportunity on the other side. Being prepared for whatever's coming your way, you know, there's no shortcuts and you have to be disciplined and being prepared. And then, yeah, accept that if you're going to do something big, that that fear and anxiety is going to be a part of it. And I think it's always good to acknowledge, we don't want to ever shove it down, acknowledge that it's there.
38:18 Speaker 01 Feel all the feelings, be present with it, but then also acknowledge that it's that's not you and and you can let that pass like a cloud moving through the air and and you can reframe it into and build excitement in the face of it, yeah, whatever you're facing. Yeah, I hope that that kind of helps a little bit, it was a bit over the place.
38:38 Speaker 00 No, understanding, you know, the reason why you're doing that. So, you know, it's worth it because it's a huge factor than being prepared, you know, knowing what you're getting yourself into and are you prepared, are you ready, right? You're not like going to be surfing seven story, building tall waves without preparation. Like, that's not the thing. And and then, yeah, accepting the fear as the thing that's going to show up and you're going to need to deal with that and maybe figuring out how you're going to deal with that when it shows up.
39:09 Speaker 01 Sure. And also, also just thinking on that, I think a lot of people will often feel a bit stuck or overwhelmed when they, when they're thinking of, of a big thing that they want to do. But taking those first little steps towards it's also very important. Like I've had many moments when, I mean, that one story I spoke about in my, in my talk, when you were listening is I was, I was crying. I was so fearful and overwhelmed, but I traveled all the way to Hawaii for these huge waves. But I was so scared. But just taking that first step, that's, that's the, the first little bit of, of momentum. Taking a step towards it and then taking another one. And, and my, my big wave journey has been a whole
39:50 Speaker 01 lot of little stepping stones that have brought me to, in surfing on, on the biggest stages around the world. So taking those little steps towards it in the right direction and being intentional about it has been very important for me.
40:01 Speaker 00 Yeah. It reminds me of this phrase, how do you eat an elequand, like one bite at a time, right? And it also reminds me of one story, like a client recently told me about how she was afraid to let go of certain like operations in her company that she spent so much time building. And when I told you, well, you don't need to do like just one big chunk at, you know, all at once. Just if you do it step by step, like, you know, giving one task, then another task to a person and seeing how they handle it. So I feel like a lot of big things in life, if we just approach them like one small step at a time, they also actually trigger a lot less fear. You know, like, okay, I'm just doing this stuff.
40:42 Speaker 00 I don't know, preparing presentation for the talk. I'm just practicing, you know, this in front of the mirror. When you like do it one step at a time, it's, it's often like what I found a lot less scary.
40:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it makes a huge difference because our brains naturally want to fly to the end and, and see the whole picture and woof, it's a massive mountain to climb and it's. It's overwhelming.
41:05 Speaker 00 Yeah.
41:06 Speaker 01 But yeah, taking those little steps. Yeah, so good.
41:10 Speaker 00 Well, you know, speaking of big waves moment in our lives, in our careers, what's the next big wave for you now? What's the next scary thing that you're working on?
41:21 Speaker 01 Well, in a more like literal sense, there's some, I think at the end of the year in Hawaii, there's going to be some really big waves because everyone's talking about this El Nino that's forming and they're saying, some people are saying it's going to be the strongest El Nino recorded in like a hundred years. And the last time we had a really strong El Nino, we had the best season in Hawaii in big wave surf history. That was in 2016. And so, yeah, I'm kind of mentally preparing and getting my boards ready for like riding, hopefully, the biggest wave of my life at the end of the year. And it is quite a terrifying thought, but if it does come, I want to be, I want to be ready for it.
42:04 Speaker 01 So that's kind of next on my horizon. Yeah, I'm also leaning into the coaching space, as I mentioned, and that's been really, really cool. So I think that's a, that's a new big wave for me that I'm trying to tackle. And so much fear, like I, when I've got a session coming up, I'm like, it feels like I'm going to surf like a huge, huge waves of dungeons and I'm trying to get prepared for it, you know?
42:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:31 Speaker 01 So that's also been, been really cool and scary.
42:34 Speaker 00 Yeah. Did you find the same process helpful that you use for riding big waves? Yeah, applicable to coaching?
42:43 Speaker 01 Definitely some of the, the same processes, but also because it's such a new world to me. I don't have, I do have a lifetime of, of experience in the sense of, of my felt experience and dealing with people around the world and all that stuff. But this is now a new space for me. So there's definitely a lot of imposter syndrome. I don't have that experience in, in that field specifically. So there's a lot of like treading new ground, which, which is very scary for me.
43:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think you, you, you said it right like this, like new ground is, that is what often the scariest thing for us, no matter in what domain it is. Right.
43:23 Speaker 01 Definitely. What are some of the, what are some of the things you do when you're facing fear? How do you cope with it yourself and what is some of your process is like?
43:34 Speaker 00 I think, you know, it's pretty much the same what you explained in a sense that like I, I also studied a lot of high performance psychology and like the process. And I coach a lot of people on going through difficult moments in their lives. And it's a visualizing, okay, like what it is you want very clearly. What's the experience you're afraid of? You know, there is this phrase, fear is a mile wide and an inch deep. When you actually define your fear, like what exactly it is that you are afraid of, right? All of the details. And very often you'll find that actually what you're afraid of either very unlikely to happen.
44:16 Speaker 00 Or I also invite people and I do it myself, actually walk yourself through the worst case scenario. And for most of us, it's not dying, right?
44:30 Speaker 00 Are you, are you still there? I think we.
44:32 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, I am. Yeah.
44:34 Speaker 00 Yes. So looking into worst case scenario, what also Tim Ferriss, like just one of the youth sort of entrepreneurs thought leaders online. Oh, popularized fear setting, right? You look into the worst case scenario. And you define that very clearly, like, okay, what is the worst case scenario, then the likelihood of that? And then A, you think through all of the things that you're gonna do if that does happen. So sort of like, okay, you know, if the worst storm, like the worst outcome, I'm gonna do X, Y and Z. And then what can you do now to prevent that from happening?
45:18 Speaker 00 And you take action steps in that. Let's say I'm about to do public speaking and I'm afraid that I don't know my presentation not gonna open up or like my clicker not gonna work, et cetera, right? So I prepare for all of the situations and I have a game plan. And once I'm ready for all of that, and I also realize even if it's the worst case scenario, right? And I'll still be able to do most of the things. It's not that scary and I have the solution. And after that, I'm not that scared because like, what are you afraid of? Like for most of us, again, it's not your experience. We are not like, you know, riding waves and we're not about to be killed. And so it's, you know, a situation that is much easier to handle.
46:00 Speaker 00 But yes, you sort of want to visualize that whole process with the worst in the case scenario. You wanna prepare for everything that you can. And then I think as you mentioned, you know, a couple of other things like your why? What's the, the reason why you wanna do that? Like the importance of that, like what's in it for you to give you like the motivation and the energy and the excitement, right? What are you trying to create? And then ultimately those, you know, small steps. Like, okay, I remember when I wanted to jump out of the airplane, you know, do my first parachute like jump. I think a week before I started freaking out. I was literally feeling anxiety being nowhere near the plane.
46:40 Speaker 00 And I would, I, I said to myself at that moment, you're just gonna take it one step at a time. So right now you're nowhere near the plane. So, you know, there is no reason to be afraid. Then as I approached the experience, I'm like, okay, I'm just getting dressed. I'm just driving to the place. I'm just getting onto the plane. I'm just sitting on this bench and, you know, being stripped to that guy. And then it's like, you know, just one second of fear and you're blind.
47:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:11 Speaker 01 That's awesome. So you just right here, right now, you can deal with what's directly in front of you.
47:16 Speaker 00 Exactly. You know, it's sort of like those blinders they put on horses so they don't get scared of all the stuff. Because very often, as you said, your mind will try to like sort of grasp the whole picture. Just to have better sort of hold of things, but it's not always good for your emotional and mental state to actually deal with the situation. And what I learned also from Navy SEALs, they called it the skill compartmentalization. So basically in life in general, if you want to deal well with situation in hand, very often you need to actually close your perspective. So you only deal with that thing that is in front of you versus trying to grasp the whole thing and deal with every single step that is coming at you.
48:00 Speaker 01 Hmm, awesome.
48:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, so that I found to be very helpful and the same like, you know, with with my clients as well, like, okay, what do we need to deal with now? And that's the whole thing.
48:11 Speaker 01 Hmm, awesome, no.
48:14 Speaker 00 But that being said, you know, I have still a few questions for you. Uh, so thank you for asking me a question as well. You know, high performance psychology is actually the thing that I'm, I think, the most passionate about. But because if you like, if you win the game here, you can win any game out like in the outside world.
48:31 Speaker 01 True.
48:33 Speaker 00 So the question is, first, what is the question that you are not asked, but wish people would ask you more often?
48:44 Speaker 01 Hmm.
48:54 Speaker 01 Maybe it's along the lines of like.
49:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe it is along the lines of like the stuff on fear like how do you how do you have the courage to do it because a lot of people just assume that I don't get scared and a lot of people just assume that it comes naturally, but I actually get like so scared. So like, yeah, maybe like what's it like to be so scared and what's it like to still build the courage to to step up to that, you know, because most people think, yeah, I'm just gonna paddle out now and go surf a huge wave. So.
49:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, what maybe tell us about this experience like how does it feel from from the inside out, right to to be that scared to you have that fear that's probably quite strong, you know, go speaking of what you do and and still do it being able to.
49:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, yeah, so I have all of these things that kind of get me to a place. The preparation, the visualization, the self-talk, all of the past experience and everything, but then there's still a big gap that I would take this leap of faith and yeah, to for me, I I pray and I really feel like God helps me a lot like he meets me very, very powerfully and
50:19 Speaker 01 yeah, when I'm feeling super vulnerable and I don't, I just need need extra, you know, need extra faith. So yeah, but it's also it's so uncomfortable being in those places and and but I think it's also just it's so important for us as humans to be in those vulnerable moments and it's just so real. And and yeah, you can you can almost feel yourself kind of growing in that while you experiencing it, the those moments where you're just touching the edge. Touching the edge of your potential or the fear is just so overwhelming, but you're still able to like.
51:02 Speaker 01 Know that there's a purpose in this.
51:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:04 Speaker 01 Like, yeah, just going back to that one experience when I was sitting in the, in the, my tent about to go surf, like sixty foot waves in Hawaii and I was surround, it was still dark outside and I could hear the waves thundering ten kilometers away at Jaws. Like I knew there were huge waves waiting for me. When the sun came up, I needed to go down there and surf these huge waves. And I just was so terrified and jet lagged and surrounded by so much vulnerability. But I also realized, like my, my one friend told me, it's, it's a privilege to feel pressure. And yeah, I guess that's really where the diamonds are made, right? And, and I just, I just felt like in that moment, in that vulnerability, I thought
51:45 Speaker 01 this is like exactly where I'm supposed to be. And this is what I'm, what I actually need right now is to just be so stretched, but surging forward, I'm taking the steps and I'm still gonna go do this thing. Yeah, it was like actually a privilege to move, go through that and then reflect on it, how, how amazing that experience was. And I, and I think that a lot of, yeah, a lot of us, we don't take ourselves to those places where we super, super stretched. Like maybe we overworked in another sense, you know, but, and overwhelmed with, with life, but I think we often don't take ourselves to the edge of our, of our potential within our passion.
52:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:22 Speaker 01 And it's a very special place to, to go to where we, yeah, we're really, really stretched.
52:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, I guess you know what I'm hearing is you able to overcome that because what you feel on the other side, and I feel like what, that's what hooks you is that sense of being the most alive and on purpose and being like this in the right place at the right time and doing exactly what you're meant for.
52:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
52:49 Speaker 00 Yeah. And you know, that potential, I can so relate. It's the, the mission of my life is to help to people to unlock more of their potential. And what drives me personally is like that feeling of tapping into that a little bit more with every, I don't know, fearful experience that I choose to take on. But that's the, yeah, like where you feel the most alive. I can so relate to that.
53:13 Speaker 01 True, yeah.
53:15 Speaker 00 But another, you know, question that I wanted to ask you, given again, what, what you do and what you've been through, and you know, you're so young still, do you ever think about? Sort of the end of your life or the ultimate vision of your life. Or let's say you're ninety. What what is good life for you from that point of view? You're looking back at, you know, all your experiences that you're still to go through. Like, what do you think needs to be there for you to say, hey, I lived a good life?
53:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I do, actually. I my my brother passed away two years ago and that was like quite a big wake up of how short life can be and how precious life is. And yeah, when you come so close to to death, it really does make you think a lot about what you want to do with your life. The first things that it really encouraged me to do was actually not performance and surfing, but more just like to have good relationships with my family and my my wife and
54:23 Speaker 01 my kids and my friends. So that was like a really important thing for me was like if there's if there's, I think that our relationships in life are the most important things. And yeah, I always say for me in my life, God first, family second, surfing third, you know? So, yeah, it it's, I think it's what that question you're asking is so important to take ourselves to the end of our lives and what's what what is, if we look back, what's going to be a good life, you know? And I do think about that. And I think if I can inspire people to to ride their big waves, that would be a really cool thing and and help a lot of people.
55:06 Speaker 01 I really want to encourage people to be able to like break those chains of fear of failure, fear of not being enough. Because when I was younger, I would often surf to not fall off my board. I'd surf to not fail people's expectations. And there was this radical
55:29 Speaker 01 Ceiling on my performance, I should have been surfing and shining, but I was surfing down here and because I was gripped by this fear of what other people thought of me. And yeah, I think there's, there's, there's a scripture that says that the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy, but I've come at them and have life and life to be full. And I feel like fear is something that robs us of so much in our lives. And if I could help to help people to look in and shine a bit of light into that fear and help them to live a bigger life, I think that I would be pretty stoked.
56:05 Speaker 00 Amazing. What a great vision. I think it's also good, good time to maybe finish our podcast and yeah, to, to get on with living our big lives, riding our big waves. Matt, again, thank you so much for the interview and for, I'm sure inspiring more people to approach their life in a bigger way and to unlock more of their potential and to do the things that they're fearful of. Is maybe the, the last message or something they, you would like our listeners to, you, you would like our, to leave our listeners with, like what's maybe
56:46 Speaker 00 the message or an action step or yeah, anything. It's a part of it.
56:53 Speaker 01 Something that's maybe at the forefront of my mind would just be go and define what your big wave is that you need to ride and then start taking steps towards that. And that'll help you to, yeah, like riding that big wave is probably what's gonna really give you that sense of purpose. So yeah, what is it for you?
57:15 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, yeah, what a good question to finish with. Well, and the very last question is where do you want people to go to, to connect with your message, to learn more about your work, to follow your journey? What are the best places that we'll link in, Sean?
57:31 Speaker 01 Thank you. I, most of my media goes out through my Instagram. So it's mattbromleysurf. And I also have a YouTube channel, which is also Matt Bromley Surf. So that's probably a place where you can see everything that's going on.
57:44 Speaker 00 Amazing. Yeah. And we'll link that in the show notes. And thank you so much again, Matt, for inspiring so many people again to live bigger lives on the and discover more of their purpose on the other side of fear. Thank you.
57:58 Speaker 01 Thank you, Angela. It was great to chat.
Previous 40+ Happy Body Playbook. What every adult needs to have sorted for a good midlife. Next How I stopped eating chocolate at night. What are you REALLY hungry for? Page updated November 9, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
