KHC 222 - Truett Hanes

Join Cam and his son Truett Hanes for a conversation about hate from the running community, new and upcoming goals, Truett’s training and working with his coach Rory and more! Follow Truett: https://www.instagram.com/just_truett Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Haters: Thoughts on Sage Canaday 00:07:08 – Truett’s Coach Rory Linkletter: How they Met & Having a Belief System 00:16:03 – Training Alone: Attention is Currency 00:22:04 – Truett’s Journal Entry After the Ogden Marathon 00:30:10 – What’s Changed in Truett’s Training 00:35:48 – Willpower: Experiments with Rats 00:37:59 – Don’t Quit When it Gets Hard 00:40:41 – The Beach Boys, Cam’s Dad, & Deep Roots in Running 00:50:12 – Cam & Truett’s Next Goal 00:52:39 – Outliers: Do They All Work Harder? 00:57:38 – It’s Never too Late Mindset 01:05:15 – Thoughts on Why the Elites Talk Sh*t About Truett’s Success 01:13:48 – Celebrating Wins & Endurance Events: The Hard Work isn’t for Nothing 01:26:45 – Delusional Self Belief 01:28:05 – Positive Influences in Running 01:34:48 – Don’t Change the Belief in Yourself 01:38:50 – Building Toughness: Pushing Kids to Be Their Best 01:44:24 – Bentley Winner Call 01:47:56 – A Children’s Natural Gift & Choosing Between Disciplines 01:49:59 – Why Truett Wants to Create his Own Running Gels 01:51:04 – Hair Gel & Lotion in Your Hair 01:53:05 – Books Truett is Reading: Words are Powerful 01:57:26 – Father Son Marathon Goals & Final Thoughts Thanks to our sponsors: Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: Visit https://www.ketone.com/Cam and use code CAM for 30% off your subscription order PLUS receive a free gift with your second shipment - or find Ketone-IQ at CVS stores nationwide and get $5 off your first 6-pack for a limited time! Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off ALP: https://alppouch.com/ use code CAM for 10% off your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Crammering Collective with, okay, that's a joke. It's Keep Hammering Collective, but the inside joke, sometimes people don't know the inside joke. They're just like, what is wrong with that guy?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:28Cameron Hanes?

  But instead.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  But I get the inside joke. You want to know why? Cause I'm the one who made the joke.

• 0:32Cameron Hanes?

  You did. This is my dad, Kramer Hanes.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:36Cameron Hanes?

  First grade.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  Was it?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 0:38Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. So you get it.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:40Cameron Hanes?

  Well, for those that don't know, who are you? Who is Truett Hanes? That's James's go to question.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  James, you son of a gun. I'm Truett Hanes and I'm a 223 marathoner.

• 0:56Cameron Hanes?

  Is that in your bio?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  No, no. And honestly, I wouldn't even make fun of people that do it because I know it means a lot to people. And it's hard to get, you know, it's like, it says something about you.

• 1:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  It means like you, you work hard, you sacrifice and you love to run. Personally, I don't, I don't tell people, hi, I'm Truett Hanes. I'm a 223 marathoner. It's a, I'm hoping that it's going to be subject to change here pretty soon.

• 1:23Cameron Hanes?

  We're not hating, we're not hating on anybody except for those who deserve it.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  And real quick, before we get started.

• 1:32Cameron Hanes?

  Did you see that, see that list?

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Real quick, before we get started on that list.

• 1:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Anything that I say about anyone during this podcast, it's not, they had it coming.

• 1:44Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, no, no, it's love and they had it coming.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Well, I don't start anything.

• 1:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  All right. I was bullied as a kid, you know, cause my name's Truett Hanes.

• 1:54Cameron Hanes?

  Oops.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  When you can't say your Rs and your S's, that's a rough name.

• 1:59Cameron Hanes?

  How'd you say it?

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Wasn't with the strong R in that Truett. It was to it. You already have an unusual name in Truett.

• 2:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  So no one even knows what you're saying, but then you can't even say it correctly. So they really don't know.

• 2:12Cameron Hanes?

  What words could you say at that time?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Not a lot.

• 2:15Cameron Hanes?

  That, well, whatever those, one of those words was, you could say, that should have been your name.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22Cameron Hanes?

  Could you say?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I could say apple.

• 2:25Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Should have been apple Hanes.

• 2:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No. Right. So you, you've been bullied. So you don't want to bully others. Is that what I'm hearing? But you also have to stand up for yourself.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  I would never bully anyone. I would never bully anyone, but I think people don't have a problem speaking their mind on me, which is fine because it's public goals. So not everyone's gonna love them. And it's open to critique. You gotta know that when you put yourself out there. So it's all love, like you guys say.

• 3:02Cameron Hanes?

  Back to the list. So all that being said, see the hater list?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Cameron Hanes?

  Who's number one right there?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I don't even need it cause it's all right here.

• 3:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, who is number one then?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  It probably.

• 3:18Cameron Hanes?

  It's a hot take.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Honestly, that one is tough. There's a lot of people, Coach Sage.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Probably him.

• 3:28Cameron Hanes?

  Who?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Sage Canada.

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I'm just kidding.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  He got, well, and actually maybe you don't know him. He got 16th at the Boston Marathon.

• 3:36Cameron Hanes?

  He, did you know he ran 216 in the marathon?

• 3:39Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 3:39Cameron Hanes?

  He did.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  216, 52.

• 3:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  And yeah, what else say about him? And it's not, it's nothing about the, like the personal attacks that he's thrown our way. But what I will say is, I hope, I hope you know, we're coming for that time in this next year.

• 4:04Cameron Hanes?

  You got that? You got that number one?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Where's the camera at? Camera 17?

• 4:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Get ready, brother.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, he ran in college. He's ran hard for a long time. You run hard through college and in high school. And then I think he started at a 222 marathon down to a 216. Six minutes off his time.

• 4:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Like that's, that's the margin of error. Like that's how much he improved.

• 4:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  I feel like, you know, I started at 330, three hours, 30 minutes.

• 4:38Cameron Hanes?

  It's a good one.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And.

• 4:40Cameron Hanes?

  But you're also like, 13 weeks old.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, you know, more than an hour off my time now, and it's just going to keep on. The fact that I'm under Rory now, we've mentioned this, but May 18th, I did my last self-coached marathon, 233 Ogden Marathon.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  And then so all the way to Chicago now, 233 down to 223.

• 5:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  In less than five months of legit training. So what I'm saying is I would argue my ceiling is higher than his since he ran throughout college.

• 5:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, we don't know what your ceiling is. Yeah. So it's a, it's, yeah, hard to say. It's without that years of, cause, and I think I mentioned this on Life in Stride, which I love, love those guys, those, that podcast, super supportive.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Shout out, Chris.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Danny.

• 5:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  And I messaged him, Scotty.

• 5:42Cameron Hanes?

  Scotty. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Good, great guys. Super nice. But yeah, I think I was saying on there that you haven't had this elite training or coaching for, you know, for years, you didn't, you didn't even want to run. So you half asked it. And now finally, then you wanted to run, then you set these big goals. And the goal at that time was, hey, let's, let's show everybody that you don't need a coach. You don't need anything crazy. You can do it on your own, just self belief and hard work. Right? And that does get you a long way. It got you to what? 229?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:17Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, but then just like with anything, without that expertise, we tried to do it on our own. But maybe you're not, it's not optimal, right? You're not, you're not training, there's structured and there's training, there's programs and there's a stimulus that helps people get to their very best of running. And what we've always done, just kind of go running. Oh, I'm going to go running. How much do people run? Oh, I'll run more than that.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:43Cameron Hanes?

  I'll be better.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 6:45Cameron Hanes?

  Well, so more isn't always better with running.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:48Cameron Hanes?

  But you were throwing hard work at it and that gets you a long way. I mean, most people, that's going to be incredible and they're going to get what they want. But for specific goals, like an OTQ, you had to make some changes. So you had a few rough marathons, I would say. And then how'd you, oh, I want to know, how'd you find Rory? How, how was that decision made?

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Destiny.

• 7:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:16Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:58Cameron Hanes?

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• 8:39Cameron Hanes?

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• 9:24Cameron Hanes?

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• 9:35Speaker 01

  No, he's, um, like, you know, I forget the exact word for people that just compliment you because they want something from you.

• 9:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  But like.

• 9:45Cameron Hanes?

  Fuckheads?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Politicians.

• 9:47Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  That's the word for it.

• 9:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  But anyway, Rory, even before he offered to coach me, he was just supportive, you know? And like, there's nothing to really gain from just being kind and being like, hey, good job on this. And like, been watching, following along and it's inspiring. Whatever it is, I could tell he was being genuine. And then, so that was a year before I ever even knew that he had a coaching service. I think he had just recently launched the coaching business, actually. So.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  He expressed, he expressed interest after the Ogden Marathon because it went, didn't go the way that I wanted.

• 10:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  After that marathon finished, I'm 18 minutes away from where I want to be. That's significant.

• 10:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  And then, so I was like, hey, man, marathon just went terribly and.

• 10:34Cameron Hanes?

  And you've been working really hard.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't for lack of trying. That's what I always say.

• 10:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  It's like, the biggest thing when you're self-coaching yourself, there's so much second guessing. You're like, I wonder if I should have done that. I wonder if I should do this. Working with Rory takes that out completely. I no longer have to think. I just do exactly what he says.

• 10:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  And not only do I believe in the plan, but he believes in me. And like, when you have a belief system like that, it goes a long way. So it's been really, really helpful for me. And yeah, I mean, he's exactly what I needed, the exact type of personality that I needed. He's, he's like a dreamer himself, I would say. He believes in himself. He thinks that he can do anything. And I needed someone like that as well. And then it just so happens, he's in the top of his marathon shape, like in the top of the marathon game. So I'm able to train with him even as well. So it's, it's been fun. And yeah, shout out to JT and him and all the flag staff, people I was able to run with.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  But it's just been a great community to be involved with.

• 11:41Cameron Hanes?

  I think with Rory too, just from what I've heard, I don't know him. I mean, I said, me casa su casa today, because he said he wants to run that hill. I'm like, coach, you're always welcome. And so what I like about him from basically what you've said is he, you know, he's had to, he didn't have like the, the perfect, like this ideal, perfect life. Like who, who does?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Kind of grew up like you, you know, so like, I think you guys would both understand each other. Not everything was just like laid out for him. He's had to earn his way. And with that, you just, I, I would say that no one works harder than him. I think people might be more talented, whatever that might mean. No one really works harder than him though. And, and I think, he always tells me this, he's like, yeah, busiest runner in the, in the world. Cause you know, he does podcast, coaching business, father of three, they just had their third. And obviously Olympic runner.

• 12:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  YouTube. I mean, he, he does seriously.

• 12:47Cameron Hanes?

  Hustling.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  He's hustling. Yeah. So it takes a lot out of you.

• 12:50Cameron Hanes?

  To be a pro marathoner, there's just no shortcuts for that. You know, talent, yeah, fine, but you got to get in a hundred. I think some guys are up 150 miles a week pushing, you know, that takes time. That's, that's a lot to ask of your body. But then doing all that other stuff too, it's impressive.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, his kids are, they're in sports. You want to be there. You want to go and run and then you got to coach people as well. People are hitting them up, want to get advice on the training plan. Or I'm just asking like, hey, can you look over the splits? Like, how do you think that went for me? And then did it go bad? Which adjustments should we make? It's a lot.

• 13:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  You know, you're, he's just, I think that he has to like put his phone away if he wants to ever like actually relax. Because people just hit him up all the time.

• 13:39Cameron Hanes?

  I bet.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause like he'll always say, he's like a needy athlete. He'll always be asking his coach, like what he should do. So he wants to be available for the people like that as well.

• 13:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  And I mean, like I, I think I told you this before, but he's like Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson in one. That's hard to do. Phil Jackson wasn't on the floor with Jordan.

• 14:03Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  You know, or, or better than him.

• 14:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  If I'm Michael Jordan in this scenario, which I'm not.

• 14:09Cameron Hanes?

  I gotta keep track of all this. Okay. So you're not Michael Jordan.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  What I'm saying is he's not only coaching people at a high level, but he's also one of the best in the world.

• 14:18Cameron Hanes?

  At a high level himself. Yeah. And so both those endeavors take a lot. Cause to be a good coach, you have to immerse yourself in those people's lives. And you're looking, like you said, you're looking at the splits. They need reassurance or they want, you know, everybody has goals. The coach is supposed to help you achieve that goal. So if you're not hitting it, you're not feeling it, come on, coach, what should I do? What's going wrong? Well, that's, that's an ask of the coach, but the coach is still trying to make an Olympic team.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Well, he told me before Chicago, he's like, I just, he was like, I feel nervous for you. Like nervous, excited, but still like just nervous because I want it to go well. He wants to get a win underneath both of our belts.

• 14:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  That's energy right there.

• 15:01Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  And he's also training for Valencia. You know, like he wants to set the Canadian record. He's thinking about all this and then it's emotionally draining to think about your athletes as well. You know, so like a lot goes into it and he'll, he'd always say like, that's what he signed up for. So like, don't feel sorry for him, obviously.

• 15:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  He enjoys it and probably you get a little bit of a release if like your athletes are doing well. Maybe you don't have a great race, kind of like what we're talking about today. Is you have some outlet. It's like, well, maybe a race didn't go well, but you know, my kids, my family are waiting for me. And like my athletes are doing well. So not everything's all bad.

• 15:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Whereas if you don't have any of that and you're just tied to results, then it's like, the race went bad. So that means I'm a complete failure. My life just sucks.

• 15:49Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it's, and endurance, train endurance, being a professional endurance athlete.

• 15:59Cameron Hanes?

  It's so hard just for so many different reasons. But yeah, I think we're, what we were talking about on that was, is it an advantage to be by yourself? So you have all this time, right? I think this is what the, the theme of our discussion was. Cause you have all this time, you don't have to worry about making sure everybody else is having a good day. Or you don't even care about anybody else. You're just like, hey, here's what I'm doing.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Inward.

• 16:22Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna be my best.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:25Cameron Hanes?

  And that, you know, like maybe, you know, Tom Brady talks about when he was playing during the season, he was kind of like that. Okay. So maybe that could, maybe that's good. But when you fail, and then, so now I think I've seen a lot of people kind of following your formula about putting your goals out there, setting big goals to make people care, right? To make people care. As you say, attention is currency. We're trying to hustle. We're trying to make it, you know, maybe people like me or Rory didn't have an easy path. So it was like, how hard can you hustle? Okay. So that's good. But when, when you're by yourself, you put your goals out there.

• 17:06Cameron Hanes?

  Now all of a sudden, because you want people to pay attention, because you're building this brand. But all these people, so the supporters and the haters, they're all equal to you. Because they're not family. They don't love you unconditionally. You made them care. So either they cared because they want to see you crash and burn. Or they cared because they want to see you succeed. Well, when you crash and burn, that negative is just as loud as that positive. Because they're both coming from the same place. It's not this love. It's okay. You don't have to perform for us. It doesn't, you don't have to prove anything. No, you have to prove everything to them, to some of them. And all that energy is coming equally. That is a tough place to be.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Yep. Yep. And then, yeah, like what we were talking about, is it an advantage to have like, yeah, the race went terribly, but you know, I still have my kids' baseball game to look forward to. And then like, so there's some positivity in your life still. You can still feel like a winner in a, in a roundabout way. If like the main thing in your life isn't going well. But I guess like for people that are just completely by themselves, everything is inward. Everything is just about me and performance and my goals. If it's not going well, you don't really have much else going for you.

• 18:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  You gotta sit with that disappointment and that failure for, for a long time until that next race. And you know, marathons, you can only run like a few at a year at the best of your ability.

• 18:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean.

• 18:29Cameron Hanes?

  And there's no guarantee that that next one's going to go good. So then what?

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Then just be prepared to be disappointed all the time.

• 18:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, I think this, this, or that example, that inward and that the pressure and all that. I think that's. Illustrated perfectly with Jess McLean's story in that she stepped away from running because she was feeling so much pressure to perform. And then now you see how she took a break, came back, and then it's just about enjoying, it seems like, I think, I don't know, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but more enjoying the process and just, hey, I'm just loving being a runner, right?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think she said it's like back on her own terms and that, you know, it's, it feels like a vacation when she goes on these runs now. She'll go and experience the city, go and see the sights with her husband Connor, who's like Rory said this to me and I was like, that is exactly the word that I'd use to describe him is like the chillest guy ever.

• 19:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a super cool dude. But um, yeah, I think that she's taken the pressure off herself by viewing it as something that's fun to do instead of something that you have to do and high stakes, high pressure. And it seems like it's working for her. I mean, dang, getting second at a New York, being the first American to podium in that race since 2018.

• 19:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Doing something right.

• 19:53Cameron Hanes?

  She is.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  And that belief, you know, I always talk about quitting. It's like if, I would have never experienced running the 223 marathon or eventually like running in the trials if I would have quit when I got hard.

• 20:04Cameron Hanes?

  If you'd have listened, there's some coaches and elite runners out there that would say going after that goal was dishonorable. It wasn't, it wasn't, it was dishonorable to running is what I heard.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Got a lot of screenshots of all those things and they're all going to come out in due time. So just remember this, whoever said that, you're going to be put on a T-shirt and that was for, you did it to yourself. But to go back to Jess real quick is, what the heck were we saying about her?

• 20:35Cameron Hanes?

  Well, all I know is Alicia said she thinks Connor might hunt a little bit or have hunted or maybe his dad. So anyway, that's a win.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 20:43Cameron Hanes?

  If he hunts, cool. He's chill and cool.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  I was saying, uh, yeah, Connor's awesome, but no, uh, oh, the first American to podium since 2018. She came back after like quitting essentially. But then now it's back on her own terms, getting the podium, making people believe. And it's like, I don't think you owe it to anyone, obviously, like to have these stories, like if you want to quit, you should think about yourself and you need to think about your own health. But think of how many people she's inspiring in America for women, for all runners, really. The fact that she didn't give up, came back and is now at the peak of her career.

• 21:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. She inspired me.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:26Cameron Hanes?

  I've never met her.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  That's what I mean. And I think we wouldn't have had that if she would have just been like, I'm done completely and didn't do the hard thing of like coming back.

• 21:36Cameron Hanes?

  Well, life's not like that. Life is full of these ups and downs, getting kicked in the nuts, failing, questioning everything, succeeding, like I'm on top of the world, maybe hopefully if things work out. And then back down again. It's just, hey, you can't, you can't, oh, I don't know. I mean, you can't over celebrate when you succeed and you can't, it's not the end of the world when you fail. It's just like, let's just keep working.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  On that note, I have a note.

• 22:06Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Oh.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  In my back pocket.

• 22:09Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  This is, so just talking about quitting, coming back.

• 22:13Cameron Hanes?

  Is that a receipt? Cause we bring receipts. We've got them right there.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I got a lot of receipts. And again, it's going to come out in due time. But this is Ogden Marathon, May 16th, and I ran a time of 23316. That was this year.

• 22:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Which was.

• 22:33Cameron Hanes?

  That's going the wrong way. Cause you'd done 229 at C I M.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:37Cameron Hanes?

  You thought, working my ass off, I'm gonna.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  I, I thought I was going to be in great shape for Austin, right? I was telling you, I'm like, we're going to crush it.

• 22:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, Austin.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  236. Okay. Then London, don't worry, that was a fluke. I'm back, baby. 232. Okay, not quite back. Don't worry. Ogden is a net downhill course in my backyard. I've ran it before. Piece of cake. I'm going to get us back on track, right?

• 23:07Cameron Hanes?

  For sure. For sure. Faster than 220. C I M is flat.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, C I M, it's not flat, but it's net downhill.

• 23:15Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, net, but 229 there on a downhill downhill course?

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:20Cameron Hanes?

  For sure faster than that. So what, how'd you do?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  233. So even slower than London, right?

• 23:25Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  So let's, let's check in with my previous self, see how we're doing.

• 23:30Cameron Hanes?

  So this is, this is a note to, you wrote to yourself?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  This is a note to myself.

• 23:34Cameron Hanes?

  Or a little diary entry.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  The day of. So after Ogden happened. All right. Ogden Marathon final time 23316. A 29 minute improvement from when I ran this race two years ago. Am I happy then? Not quite. I was on my goal pace for eight miles, then dropped off a cliff. This race was meant to get my confidence back, but instead it proved to me that I clearly need a new plan. Why I thought I could keep trying the same method over and over again, despite constantly coming up short is mind numbing. Just keep working and it'll happen was my mantra. Perhaps running this race only three weeks after London was a bad idea, but I still was fully

• 24:18Speaker 01

  expecting a PR today. Instead, I didn't even beat my time from London. Now I face the off season with more questions than answers. All this time spent obsessing and game planning for the first half of the year is seemingly wasted. The haters proven right. The supporters question my ability and if I truly have what it takes to succeed. But how am I mentally? Still in the fight. Imagine that. Everything working against me. Time's going in the opposite direction and yet I still believe I can do this. This is truly how you see what your potential is. Not giving up when it gets rough, but buckling down and making

• 25:02Speaker 01

  changes to get the desired result. But my plan isn't working. Who cares? Find a different fucking plan then. I've been trying so hard and nothing changes. Who fucking cares? Perhaps you're trying hard at the wrong things. Nobody said it would be easy. But listen, there's a reason you're hearing this now. It means I didn't quit. It means I figured it out. But as of right now, do my legs still work? Yes. Do my lungs still work? Yes. Do I still want it? Yes. Do I still dream of hugging my wife after qualifying and saying we did it? Yes. Then should I keep going? Yes. You never fail until you stop trying, Einstein.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  And you'd see me dead before you saw me give up.

• 25:49Cameron Hanes?

  That's good.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  So, I mean, but that kind of takes you through the mindset of, at that point, I'm 18 minutes away from where I want to be and I have a year and a half to hit the goal. You can't be tied to results as soon as they happen. Like there's so much that goes into it. But all that I know is that if I would have given weight to the idea that I couldn't do it, then I would, I would have stopped and then I would have never reached my potential of running 223, 10 minutes off my time on a flat course, just five months later.

• 26:28Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Where people would have told me after running that at Ogden, it would take years to get to where I needed to.

• 26:35Cameron Hanes?

  I think they did tell you that.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  They did.

• 26:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Not they would have, they did.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. But instead it was just five months. So it's a weird thing. Like I was driving myself crazy because you're, you're almost like, it seems like you're gaslighting yourself, but you're like, I swear I'm better than, than what I'm showing.

• 26:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  I just don't have anything to show for it. But, but I know that I can do it. But it doesn't mean anything until you have that result. Now I do 223 and we're not stopping there.

• 27:07Cameron Hanes?

  Well, why'd you, why would you know you could do it? When you're deep in the back country and everything depends on your gear, your knife can't be the weak link. That's why I teamed up with Montana Knife Company to build the Keep Hammering Pack Out. What matters to me in all things is performance. The Pack Out is built to do one thing really well, break down animals efficiently. The blade shape gives you control when skinning, the steel holds an edge, and it's light enough that you don't think twice about carrying it all day. When you're tired, cold, and working on an animal miles from the truck, simple and reliable are everything. Montana Knife Company is American made and that matters

• 27:47Cameron Hanes?

  to me. I know Josh Smith personally and he doesn't cut corners. He cares about quality, doing things the right way, and about building products here in the USA that actually perform in the field. That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to montana knife company.com and right now, podcast listeners, get 10% off any knife with code CAM10. C I M 10. The Keep Hammering Pack Out. Built for the back country, built to work. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. No corporate playbook, just a brand that does its own thing and doesn't apologize for it. That's

• 28:30Cameron Hanes?

  what got my attention. It's tobacco free, comes in enough flavors that everyone on the crew finds one they actually like. And four strength levels, three, six, nine, and 12 milligrams. So it fits you, not the other way around. Tuck one in, go run, go hunt, go put in the work. That's ALP. Head to alppouch.com and use code CAM for 10% off your first order.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  I just knew that, um,

• 28:55Speaker 01

  It's impossible to not improve in my mind. If you do all the right things, you should only, like, I'm still young. I believed in myself. I didn't mind putting in more work than everyone else. I just, I knew that something was eventually gonna happen. It's like, why wouldn't you get stronger if you just keep on lifting a bunch of weights? And you keep on putting more weight on the bar? Like, you're eventually gonna get a new max and bench.

• 29:23Cameron Hanes?

  Is long. I think this is your point, like, if you do everything right, like, if you eat Cheetos all day, you're probably not gonna get stronger.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:32Cameron Hanes?

  But if you do everything, like, if you control all the variables you can control, there's some things we can't control. You can't control the weather on a certain day. You can't, how you feel on a certain day, kind of subjective. But if you control all the variables, the rest, the recovery, the food, everything, then yeah. I mean, then you could say you're only gonna get better. You would never get worse.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:58Cameron Hanes?

  Controlling all those things you can control and doing correct work, not just work. Because we've thrown just work at things and it doesn't always, it's not always effective. But the correct work. So tell me, like, in those, in the last five months with Rory, or it's more than five months now since Chicago was...

• 30:16Speaker 01

  So, but this is what it is, is June was my first workout under Rory.

• 30:22Cameron Hanes?

  June?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And so now it's November, so we just hit like five months.

• 30:25Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Doing actual workouts with him.

• 30:27Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see, yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Chicago was technically four some months.

• 30:31Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:33Cameron Hanes?

  So what's changed?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I would, I would say, like, I was telling you today, easy day is easy, hard day is hard. But even that, it's like, I would never in a million years think to do,

• 30:50Speaker 01

  run 10 minutes at 520 pace, three, three of those with a two-minute jog in between. And then in the evening, run one minute hard, one minute easy. Like, I don't even know what that means.

• 31:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  You know, but you cover 18 miles and then you get, it's about like 50 minutes of quality work. In my mind, I was like, well, if I wanna be good at the marathon, I gotta go and run like 10 miles at around like marathon pace. Do that, let's say like three times a week. You know, and just like time under tension, not a lot of like method to the madness.

• 31:26Cameron Hanes?

  A lot of nuance.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Not a lot of nuance, not a lot of like science, like the cutting edge.

• 31:32Cameron Hanes?

  There's certain stimulus, all those things, even that second workout.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:37Cameron Hanes?

  On, you know, kinda, because you'd already done a workout, so it's...

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Tired legs.

• 31:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's gonna change or it's gonna, there's gonna be a different stimulus that makes your body adapt for doing. If you just didn't do the morning workout and just did that, what was the next minute on, minute off?

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:55Cameron Hanes?

  If you just did that, it wouldn't do the same thing as, because you did the morning workout and then that. But all that little, that's where the science of a coach comes in, I guess.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  And one of the biggest underrated things was after Austin, immediately went back to 100 mile weeks. Right now, I'm gonna hit like 70 some miles and it's already been a month since Chicago. So you're like, you know, you're peaking at like a few weeks before Chicago. Come back down, taper into Chicago, feel fresh like a million bucks, go and crush that race. You're down here 20 miles in that week after, and then 40, 60, 70, 80, like that slowly.

• 32:36Cameron Hanes?

  Slow build.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Slow build, making sure that your body's just fully there. Whereas, you know, we're used to just hammering, keep hammering. It works to make you tough. It doesn't work to make a faster marathon, usually.

• 32:50Cameron Hanes?

  It got me a lot of sub-three-hour marathons.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Cameron Hanes?

  That's about it.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  But, you know, I will say, for whatever reason, people are giving me grief for, I think I ran two days after Chicago, did some miles, sub-seven-minute pace, just because, you know, I'm pumped. I just ran a PR.

• 33:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you did great.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Prove people wrong. My leg is still a little bit sore, but like, when has that ever stopped me? I wanna go out there and run. This was in Illinois and I loved, is it forest preserves? Forest preserves out there? It's just like, it's in nature and it's great, like trails. And I always tell Alicia, I'm like, this is fricking heaven for me.

• 33:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I just love new trails. I love being outside. Anyway, I was there and just four miles.

• 33:36Cameron Hanes?

  And you felt good?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Felt good. And someone compared my times to Clayton Young's, two miles that he ran at like nine-minute pace. And they're like, this is a clear sign that he's on PEDs. Because of that.

• 33:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, because of a four-mile, seven-minute, 30-second run?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm like, do you guys realize truly how easy that is for me?

• 34:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Like, it literally means nothing to me. Like, my body pushing through the pain and the fatigue, it's so, at this point, it's so easy.

• 34:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's like Good Will Hunting.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Do you have any idea how easy this is for me? Shaking the math problems around?

• 34:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  No, but honestly, like, what we've been saying is, you know, keep hammering, it's just pain. These are mindsets that we've adopted and have taken us for years. And we found success through it.

• 34:32Cameron Hanes?

  Got a long way.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  They can't be overlooked in this instance.

• 34:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Because it makes you tougher. It makes your body tougher. When you had me train for my first marathon, I was training for that marathon when I was 12 or 13.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  I was also on the basketball team. I was also running track full-time. I was also going to school, whatever, hanging out with my friends. And then the weekend would roll around, gotta run 20 miles this weekend. You know, so that does something to you.

• 35:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  It does something to you up here for sure, but your body also gets the message.

• 35:05Cameron Hanes?

  It's child abuse, but also...

• 35:07Speaker 01

  It's that, but then...

• 35:11Speaker 01

  But the point is, this isn't anything new to us. Like, we've been around, we've been doing this for a while.

• 35:16Cameron Hanes?

  Being durable and mentally tough is gonna come in handy. I mean, so, so we weren't training right. Are there times in the marathon right now where you have to be tough?

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:28Cameron Hanes?

  When it hurts?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:29Cameron Hanes?

  And you're like, so all, every, all the science, all the stuff, all looks good on paper. It still fucking hurts. So what are you gonna do?

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:39Cameron Hanes?

  Are you gonna dial it back? Nobody really knows you dialed it back. You know you dialed it back. But are you gonna dial it back and just say, oh, wasn't my day? Or are you gonna fucking grind?

• 35:49Speaker 01

  You like willpower?

• 35:51Cameron Hanes?

  I've never met him.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  I kept this one, because we talk on the phone, obviously. We live in different states, but have you heard the study about the rats in the 1950s about willpower?

• 36:04Cameron Hanes?

  Go ahead.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  So there's these rats, you put them in water.

• 36:08Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  And this is before rights activists.

• 36:13Cameron Hanes?

  Animal rights activists. So we could just fuck with the rats as much as we wanted.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  You could fucking do whatever you wanted to the rats and no one would say anything.

• 36:20Cameron Hanes?

  Good old days.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know about that. But anyway, 1950s, working on willpower, right? You put rats in water. 15 minutes goes by, it's treading water, gives up, drowns. 15 minutes, so that's its limit, right?

• 36:39Speaker 01

  15 minutes is about to hit, put another rat in there. Take it out of the water, dry it off. You do that a couple of times, train its mind. So if it makes it to 15 minutes, it's safe. Put it back in the water, let's see how long this fucker can go.

• 36:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Can go.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  How long do you think he goes? After he's been trained, that if he makes it?

• 37:00Cameron Hanes?

  Now he thinks he's gonna get help if he just hangs on. With that, with that, the hope, I guess, quotient, hour?

• 37:13Speaker 01

  A little bit more.

• 37:15Cameron Hanes?

  How long?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  60 to 80 hours.

• 37:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just that, hey, we got hope.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so it gets you a long way.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  So you mean to tell me his limit, he would have given up?

• 37:30Cameron Hanes?

  Died.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Died, 15 minutes? He could have gone for two days longer.

• 37:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  What does that say about us? That's my favorite animal, by the way, is a rat.

• 37:38Cameron Hanes?

  Well, he should be more like rats.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the point is, Goggins might have said you give up at 60%.

• 37:46Cameron Hanes?

  40.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  40%?

• 37:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Maybe it's less than that. You give up at 2%.

• 37:52Cameron Hanes?

  Might be.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, people don't even realize how much you have left in the tank.

• 37:55Cameron Hanes?

  That's true.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  I've never like been at my, you know, I've had tough marathons, whatever. I think going back to when I'm 13 years old, though, and we had a few training runs during that marathon where I was like having diarrhea. And we had to get, I think it was like 20 miles on the day. We had to stop that run and then go home. And you're like, hey, we still gotta get the miles done. So we go on another run, stomach still hurts, stop, we still gotta go and get some more. Did Piscata and, and I think I ended up just hiking up and then running down or whatever. That trains your brain to not give up when it gets hard.

• 38:35Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  And so the Austin marathon, I ran 236. It's nothing to like write home about. What I didn't do is, you didn't see 14-minute miles on there, you didn't see 20-minute miles. You didn't see me walking, you didn't see me go off and quit. I, I went as hard as I possibly could on that day and it was the 236.

• 38:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  But there's something you can build on there.

• 38:58Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you know, you didn't quit.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  I didn't quit.

• 39:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Because I don't quit.

• 39:03Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  You know, like, and that's the message that you're telling yourself. Wasn't my day, but I still didn't quit and I gave my best effort. You need to make sure that you're still doing that. Because the more you train that, that muscle in your brain of, I'm gonna quit when it gets hard, the more you're gonna quit.

• 39:19Cameron Hanes?

  Abuludugulangada or whatever Huber says.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Oh, you're, no, you're singular.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Mid-singular.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Mid-singular. Anterior cortex, yeah, that's pretty close.

• 39:37Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know what I was trying to say.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  You said Abdullah Amlangada? What is that?

• 39:42Cameron Hanes?

  It's an omelet.

• 39:46Cameron Hanes?

  I don't even know what it is.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  My medulla oblongata. Yeah. What is that?

• 39:52Cameron Hanes?

  I think it's sexual somehow. Is it? Look that up.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  No, I think.

• 39:55Cameron Hanes?

  Well, if you even know, if anybody can decipher what I'm saying, this is like my language, my.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  That might be Ed Norton in Fight Club. I think he says that.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  No, it's part of your brain. The medulla.

• 40:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's part of your brain?

• 40:11Speaker 03

  Sound structure to make that the lower brain.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  You were actually pretty close.

• 40:17Cameron Hanes?

  This is insane. I can't believe I got so close.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:23Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway, that is built up from resistance.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:26Cameron Hanes?

  Right? So, I mean, there is, there's, now there's science to it.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, don't quit when it gets hard. Holy shit. How many, like, that's pretty important. And that carries over into other aspects of your life.

• 40:39Cameron Hanes?

  I've heard that. Um, what I wanna take a step back.

• 40:46Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, tell us about, we got a story on these shirts. I don't know if the, if, if all the, has the live audience noticed these? Did you notice these?

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Don't we look cute? First of all.

• 40:58Cameron Hanes?

  Tell me about it.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  My wife, Alicia Haynes, is the greatest gift giver of all time. She, um, she sees people.

• 41:07Cameron Hanes?

  Sees people?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Like, have you ever felt seen?

• 41:10Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, right.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  This person gets me or this person knows me.

• 41:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Because what you do is you look at what they enjoy and what they like and you're like, you know, I see you and I value you as a person.

• 41:23Cameron Hanes?

  Here's why people aren't good at that. Because you have to care about other people.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  That's exactly what it is.

• 41:30Cameron Hanes?

  She cares. So, when you care about people, then you start noticing things. Some people never get to that part of it. But anyway.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  And it is fascinating how people do that. They care.

• 41:41Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  I know. Um, but anyway, so she showed me this shirt. This is actually two for, or represent. So, like, uh, two, four, seven, the gear that I run in.

• 41:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  That's like a, that's same company. Yeah, offshoot. Yeah. Um, so we saw this and, um, into the trail. Um, you have that for your dad.

• 42:02Cameron Hanes?

  I do. So, right here. So.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Because he loved the Beach Boys.

• 42:06Cameron Hanes?

  He did. And then that's the day he died right there, July 5th, 2010. But that's the end of the trail, Indian, which I got off. This is Beach Boys, the Beach Boys Surf's Up album cover.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:18Cameron Hanes?

  And he loved the Beach Boys. But yeah, this is from Surf's Up, Into the Trail. That's why I got that for my dad. And now we have matching shirts. So, you're saying Alicia found these?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:29Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, she showed me and she was like, um, I found a cool shirt and I know that your dad would like it, but I just wanna make sure, like, what do you think? And I was like, holy shit. At, at first, I didn't even realize that that was with the Beach Boys. I thought you just got the tattoo.

• 42:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  But then, yeah. But then I realized, I was like, oh, my gosh, that's, uh, perfect.

• 42:48Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then, uh, yeah, now I have one too. Cause I was like, I need one.

• 42:52Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you, guys. But yeah, this is, and you know, I guess I haven't talked about it too much, but my dad, oh, dude, him watching you right now, he would be, he would live for it. Cause you know, lifelong athlete and track coach.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Well, I just ran yesterday 12 400s at South.

• 43:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  And, uh.

• 43:15Cameron Hanes?

  Where he coached.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Where he coached. And yeah, I mean, so just anytime that I'm in South Eugene, obviously, he lived there, um, for a long time. And then so every time I'm over there and the beauti beaut runs right over there, I always think of him. So.

• 43:30Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, I thought it was a cool way to honor him.

• 43:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  You know, getting these shirts.

• 43:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he would, man, he would love this whole thing. Uh, mo- mostly about, not just about you going for a big goal, but just the person you've become. You know, like, when you ran that first marathon, we, you had your Eugene marathon medal and you, we went over to his house and you gave it to him.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 43:57Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so it's, uh, that was the 330 we talked about. And that was after the 20 mile runs with the diarrhea and all this other stuff. And we did that, or I kinda, I don't know if I made you or whatever, but I wanted, my dad, you know, was, obviously he wasn't gonna last much longer.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:17Cameron Hanes?

  And, um, I think the Eugene marathon was in April, beginning of May, and then he died, you know, July 5th.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, end of April. And then, yeah, that same year. Yep. Yeah. No, I think, well, you probably mentioned that it'd be a good idea.

• 44:32Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, to take that medal over to him. And so, obviously, yeah. I know. Yeah. I, no, I think it's, we have deep roots in like track and field and running. So, that's why, it's like, you know, this goal, obviously, it's because a lot of people told me I couldn't do it.

• 44:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  And, and I don't really like that. I don't like being limited. And I want people to, I want you to find out for yourself. But also, it's because we have ties to just track and field and running through Grandpa Bob.

• 44:59Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  To where I was like, man, if someone in our family could actually like be somehow involved with the Olympics.

• 45:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  You know, cause like, he was, he was there. He was close.

• 45:10Cameron Hanes?

  He was always, and he was always over being a, uh, judge or something is at the big track meets.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:17Cameron Hanes?

  You know, long jump pit or pole vault. He was always there.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know. So, I, I think, you know, like, the motivation of proving, proving people wrong, um, only lasts for so long, but proving people right that you love, I think that's stronger. It's a little bit more potent.

• 45:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, that's, you know, I got a lot of people that, um, believe in me and that are in my corner following along on the series. And then obviously, um, you guys, Alicia, James, probably. And then, uh.

• 45:46Cameron Hanes?

  He's always talking shit.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  He's a hater. Yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  We're each other's biggest haters.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. Uh, but yeah, so I mean, I wanna, I wanna prove all you guys right. And, and that kinda, that reminds me of after Chicago, you were, uh, giving me advice, you know, like saying, like, I think if you just got down to like a certain weight or maybe you tried this, um, you could get to like that next level sub 220. And I was like, dad, listen, whatever it takes, you don't need to convince me.

• 46:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I got us.

• 46:19Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna get there.

• 46:21Cameron Hanes?

  And I think I was so used to like always trying to convince you guys of something.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:27Cameron Hanes?

  Why something hard is a good idea somehow. So, I think I was still, I'm still in that mode. And I, with you, I guess I don't need to, oh, well, Tanner either. He's, you know, he does, he's tough as hell, just in a different way in the mountains.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  See, yeah, he's tough.

• 46:44Cameron Hanes?

  I don't need to talk you guys into chasing things.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  I think it's cool, um, Cam Canada, that story about when he was with Tanner hunting in Idaho.

• 46:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  And obviously, he was in the NFL. Um, and then he told Tanner, like, after seeing him hike up a mountain just nonstop, hands in his pockets, not, um.

• 47:02Cameron Hanes?

  With the pack on.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  With the pack on and just not slowing down at all. He said it was one of the most impressive things he's ever seen. It kinda goes back to what I was saying is that, you know, you weren't the greatest coach as far as like formulaic, what we should do to become fast runners, right?

• 47:19Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  I, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn.

• 47:23Cameron Hanes?

  I'm tracking, I guess.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  But one thing that it did do is that it definitely made us resilient. It made us resilient in, in some ways. And I think that's carried over into, into our lives now as adults.

• 47:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  I like to think.

• 47:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, uh, I would hope, I mean, I would like to think too, because, because then I don't feel so bad about what I had, what I made you guys do. Um, what was I gonna say? Oh, one thing I did somehow miss during this visit is the 12 400s.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:56Cameron Hanes?

  Oops.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Dang it.

• 47:59Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you, you wanted to be there and sprint them?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Where did you, when did you do that? Dang it. Well, actually, it was for a good reason. You're out hunting with Tanner and his wife.

• 48:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. We were out looking for a buck for sure. But yeah, I'm glad I missed it, actually.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:13Cameron Hanes?

  Those, those hurt.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know. And actually, we were, you're not supposed to stack two hard days in a row, but Piska, we were actually going up pretty good as well.

• 48:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Today.

• 48:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. How'd that feel?

• 48:25Speaker 01

  I don't really, I don't run much hills.

• 48:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  But hills pay the bills.

• 48:29Cameron Hanes?

  They do.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:31Cameron Hanes?

  They do.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's only ever gonna help is, is the way that I see it. Um, and I knew that like more, most people, I think, they have the excuse of like running the 12 400s the day before, and then they go to Piska. And then I don't know what most runners do with you. Maybe they just allow themselves to kinda get buried when you start to take off. But I was like, I think I'm just gonna hang on. I was like, I don't really care. Like, you know, if this sets me back a couple of days of like trying to keep up with you on Piska, I think I'll take my chances.

• 49:01Cameron Hanes?

  How, was it hard?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, it started to get hard. I mean, we stopped talking. And I was like, okay, we're starting to go uphill now.

• 49:08Cameron Hanes?

  I think I heard somebody say, sometimes when you're running with somebody, and what happens is, if you're right there with them, then they're like, oh, I guess we'll go a little faster.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:20Cameron Hanes?

  But it's called the one step. Uh, so you stay one step off.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:24Cameron Hanes?

  Cause then that's kinda telling them, I'm good here.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  If you're ever good with slowing down.

• 49:30Cameron Hanes?

  If you're, yeah. But, uh, yeah. So, it's, that just happens. But, I mean, it, you did what I have, what I do every day, so I should be better.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:39Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I, I can't run on the track. I know that. And I can't even run with you at all anymore. Like, we're gonna do 15 tomorrow, and I'm sure that's gonna be terrible for me.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Well, it's about time. I, I think finally, are you finally passing it off on some of the short distance? But.

• 49:58Cameron Hanes?

  Just that.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  In the mountains, still do pretty good.

• 50:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, you're, you're a much better runner than me for sure. And Tanner's a lot tougher. So, I'm like, I don't know. Well, I'm at this weird spot now where I'm not, I don't know what I'm doing. Just kinda floundering around.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  You know, is it, I don't know if we're gonna have protesters or not, if we wanna announce like the next goal that we have.

• 50:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, us?

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 50:25Cameron Hanes?

  It's gonna cause a lot of hurt feelings.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:28Cameron Hanes?

  Go ahead, announce it. I don't, I don't care.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  So a lot of father and sons have run marathons.

• 50:35Cameron Hanes?

  They have.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  But the fastest father and son combined time.

• 50:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, 459.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Four hours and 59 minutes. So if we take our times right now. You are 239, 223. I think that's five hours and two minutes.

• 50:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  So we're three minutes off.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  I'm already planning on getting three minutes faster. We, I think you can get more than three minutes faster as well. So if we get the fastest father, son marathon time, I, we just want to turn this to the crowd. Is that gonna be okay with a few of you guys?

• 51:14Cameron Hanes?

  Oops.

• 51:17Cameron Hanes?

  Oopsie. Yeah. Uh, let's, let's go to the list.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, there's a couple of names on there that I'm seeing. I'm like, uh-oh. They're gonna have something to say about that.

• 51:29Cameron Hanes?

  No, it's all good. I mean, the thing is, is it's, um, you're not topped out at the 223, 28. And I was telling you today, that 239, I did like, I did the Eugene preview, like a little warmup. It's probably one of the first times I've ever actually done like a hard 20 mile run.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  It is actually.

• 51:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I did one and then me and you ran one, uh, that would to the Maristville Bridge, like 20.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:58Cameron Hanes?

  And I was kinda like, I was running good that day, but I've done two

• 52:04Cameron Hanes?

  in my life.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Well, you've seen, so I've improved by 10 minutes.

• 52:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Off of a legit marathon block.

• 52:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, right.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  So let's say you do one, um, we're looking at least a few minutes, right?

• 52:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, if I, so I said, I'm gonna do like your block. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna steal. I'm gonna rip money off from Coach Rory.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Cameron Hanes?

  Do what he tells you to do for like 12 weeks or something. Shit dude, I know I can get 235.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  So, but this actually, I, I was wondering about this. So you have nothing but, you know, you have outliers on this podcast.

• 52:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Has there ever been a situation where the most talented people you've had on this show weren't also the hardest working?

• 52:53Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, it doesn't happen. That's not how it works.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:56Cameron Hanes?

  No matter what your field, the field you're in, no matter what your passion is,

• 53:02Cameron Hanes?

  you gotta work your ass off or people aren't gonna know your name. You're not gonna, you're not gonna achieve what you want.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  So like when the argument is, um, that guy's just more talented than you, like he don't stand a chance. Does that ever, I'm just trying to think in my mind, cause people told me that I'm close to my genetic potential when I ran a 229. Because I started to slide back.

• 53:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  And they're like, that's proof that he can't go much faster. Like his body will not allow him to biologically.

• 53:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Obviously that was wrong. You know, so it's like, at what point do you say, this is all I can do? Um, and obviously for all these outliers, they've always taken the notion that I can always get better.

• 53:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I mean, like, who knows? Whi- which one's which?

• 53:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think, well, if you want to know the truth, I think the biggest talent is hard work. It's just the ability to suffer and push and work hard and fail, but still work hard. That's, that's the talent to set you apart. Not the, not the athletic talent.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:11Cameron Hanes?

  Not the talent in maybe looking at a math problem, not the talent in lifting weights. It's not quitting when everything tells you to quit.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:23Cameron Hanes?

  Or every, everybody tells you to quit, or every industry tells you to quit and say, no, guess what? I think I'm just gonna keep nose to the grindstone. I'm gonna keep hammering, as we say.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:34Cameron Hanes?

  And every person I've had here that are outliers in their respective field has that attitude. I won't quit. I mean, you look at Huberman, he's been doing, he said he was like doing these nerd science presentations, like when he's in first grade. Like telling kids about science. Well, now he's 50. He's doing the same shit. So he did that for how, how many years was that? 55 years, 56?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:00Cameron Hanes?

  Or 54 years? And it's like, yeah. And now he's, everybody knows Andrew Huberman, PhD, Stanford. Like number one book in the country, I think, protocols. So just didn't quit and that's science, but we're talking about anything.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  We talking about science?

• 55:20Cameron Hanes?

  You talking about science?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Not a game, but science.

• 55:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  I know, but so, and now this is the second part of that.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  You know that the success you have in bow hunting is because you've probably worked harder than a lot of people, right?

• 55:39Cameron Hanes?

  I think, yeah.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Discipline. Showing up every day, you shoot your bow every day, you wanna be the best there. Who's to say you're not sitting on a winning lottery ticket with running?

• 55:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  With, cause I mean, you've never done a real marathon block.

• 55:53Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  So maybe we're talking about the same principles you just applied to, you gotta work your ass off. You can't tell people that, um, like what your limit is. What if you would have applied that to marathon running? I don't know how fast you could be, but we know that you were sitting on 10 minutes of improvement just by running a couple of fast times around the track. Yeah. So who even knows what your potential is?

• 56:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. But yeah, I made the, I made the choice of bow hunting. I wanted to be the best I could be.

• 56:27Cameron Hanes?

  And I mean, this room is full of that, I guess, the, the reward of that effort. But yeah, who knows? Directed somewhere else. I don't know.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know, but like that's, you're gonna get a little bit of a picture of that after you do like an actual marathon training block and being like, I mean, people do like the age graded stuff these days. I, I really wonder what that would look like.

• 56:49Cameron Hanes?

  I saw our number one hater did that.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Sage? Was he giving you grief about that?

• 56:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause he was saying that like, cause I think he was saying I was, I said I was gonna go after the American record.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  For like, uh,

• 57:02Cameron Hanes?

  It's like 235 for my age.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 57:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so what he's, whatever, talking the same old shit that he does, but saying like, I don't know if it was my age graded time with the 239 or that. But anyways, it would have been like an age graded 212.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  But what I'm thinking truly is like, after seeing, I've ran with you for a long time now. We've never done the right things.

• 57:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  I think that there's something there, like honestly.

• 57:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. As far as like what your potential might have been, if you would have picked this up through, through college. But that's also the other thing that I was gonna say is, um, someone asked me about like running Eugene. I ran that in 2019.

• 57:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  257.

• 57:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. That was a hard one.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  That was off just running a couple of times a week.

• 57:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, went meeting at lunch.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, meeting at lunch.

• 57:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Went and met you there, uh, after college classes or whatever.

• 57:57Cameron Hanes?

  Basically I would do, it was basically a half marathon race twice a week.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Racing each other.

• 58:03Cameron Hanes?

  Running six something minute miles, just no warmup, cause I'm leaving, you'd meet me at work. We take off from my work, basically sprinting, cause I had to be back at work.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Cameron Hanes?

  And that's even a long lunch. So there's an hour and a half or hour 20 something. But yeah, so that was our workout. Race, a half marathon twice a week.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  So I did that in 2019. Took five years off running because of how hard that was. I was like, whatever that was, I don't want that.

• 58:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Someone asked me, they're like, man, imagine if you wouldn't have quit running back in 2019 and I would have done what I was doing right now. For five years. Well, now it would have been, that was 2024, so it would have been seven years now. Of the high level training that I'm doing, how good would I have been?

• 58:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  The, the one thing that I will say about that is I was not as resilient as I am now. I've done a lot of different shit, like with the, the pull ups, 100 mile races, uh, last man standing, um, a bunch of different marathons, weightlifting. I wanted to do powerlifting. I don't think I'm, I would be the same guy that I am now. And, and I can't, I can't, um, like extrapolate how much better I would be because I don't think that I'd be as tough as I am now.

• 59:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Everything happens when it's supposed to. I, I don't even, no, that's true, but people say that. But anyway, maybe your journey was just how it was, how this, for this to work out as if we say it's destiny and you're gonna qualify at the Olympic trials and all. It's just, it's supposed to happen this way.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:39Cameron Hanes?

  And maybe just like Jess McLean's story, maybe it's supposed to happen this way to give people hope or to give, you know, so people could see this and maybe, maybe they're not runners, but maybe they're gonna apply this, it's never too late type mindset to whatever they love. And so maybe it's supposed to happen like this, just so you could have a greater impact on others, you know? So maybe it's about that.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Well, and I, I have a, a different type of like fire for it now. Cause let's say like I would have kept improving and I'm already a 219 marathoner. And then, um, you just gotta cut off three minutes. I announced the, the trials goal. I don't know if anyone really cares about someone that goes from 219 to 216. They would be like, that's pretty much the same time, isn't it?

• 1:00:26Cameron Hanes?

  So, oh, he's a good runner. That's about it.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Right. And, and that was also one of the criticisms that I received from my, he's my, one of my favorite dudes, Sean Wade. You remember him? He's a New Zealand marathoner.

• 1:00:38Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah. But he's an Olympian, right?

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Uh, he ran a 210. This is before the super shoes.

• 1:00:45Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  His biggest problem, now that I'm getting faster, 223. He used to say, you should be embarrassed by mentioning my goal. Because 229 to 216 is too big of a gap. I should have waited until I was, uh, like in the 220 range to announce it.

• 1:01:03Cameron Hanes?

  Why?

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  I got something for you. The bigger the dragon, the better the story.

• 1:01:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right?

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Have you ever heard of that? So imagine you go and you gotta save the princess and it's the easy, you have no pushback. There's absolutely nothing, nothing comes up. The dragon is this big. You just step on him.

• 1:01:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Is that cool? Oh, the movie's over.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Everything was great. The point of me going for this is that you, anything you set your mind to, you can accomplish it. You know, we're still on that path. Maybe it's not possible. Maybe it is. We're gonna find out. The fact that now you're okay with me announcing the goal and having the goal just because I'm proving that I actually do belong, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

• 1:01:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. If everybody played it safe like that, you know how many boring stories there would be out there?

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Dude, that is, that was one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.

• 1:01:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  That was seriously dumb.

• 1:01:59Cameron Hanes?

  I've heard a lot of dumb takes, but that's a good one.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Cameron Hanes?

  We had Jay Mill with a couple dumb takes too, speaking of our hater board.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  You know, in his defense, 225 St. George.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I obviously, I couldn't have ran 225 on a flat course at the time. So I understand that people see St. George's course profile and they immediately want to discount anything. What I will say is a lot of people run well at St. George and they run well everywhere. You know, so like, it's really not the easiest. It's at elevation. You still gotta climb.

• 1:02:35Cameron Hanes?

  You're still pounding your quads probably. I've never done it, but that's hard.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Ogden Marathon, that's downhill. People would be like, you're really gonna count that time from there? Run 233 there. Freaking beat the brakes. It was hard.

• 1:02:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Like, running is always gonna be hard.

• 1:02:52Cameron Hanes?

  I remembered why I blocked him, by the way. It wasn't for talking shit about you. It's like, he made some weird post about wieners or something, didn't he, James?

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he cut up a bunch of shit talkers clips and made us seem like we were talking about dicks.

• 1:03:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and I just, I sent him a message and I said, I said, dude, this is just fucking weird. Just, you know, it's just dumb. So it wasn't about you.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  That's your grief with him. I know. And there's, there's a lot of people. There's been like a lot of takes, but oh, what I will say is, um, a lot of people will have, you know, goals that they announce. And then they might have some people that don't believe them in their personal life, or maybe they'll just like say one time like, are you sure that's a good idea? And then like that burns into their brain. They're like, that person clearly didn't believe in me.

• 1:03:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  When I announced this goal, it's public, like we said, um, I legitimately have people laughing at me. Saying like, huh, you see this before? And like laughing and having fun on camera.

• 1:03:52Cameron Hanes?

  Matt and Luke.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Matt and Luke, hi. Friends of the show.

• 1:03:56Cameron Hanes?

  These are all friends of the show.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Cameron Hanes?

  They're just never be invited on this show.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  And you know, Matt, I honestly, I don't, you're sending mixed signals. You say that you believe in me and then you say other things. What the hell's going on, man? I can't even decide, but anyway, he's, um, has the same goal as me, 215 marathon.

• 1:04:13Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  And he's coming from 259. That's what he started his first marathon at.

• 1:04:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So why is that? Okay. That seems.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  It feels like we're on the same path.

• 1:04:22Cameron Hanes?

  Seems like.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  The heck, dude?

• 1:04:25Cameron Hanes?

  Are you laughing at him?

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  I didn't think so. And then Luke, I don't really know about you, man. So I know that he wants to get faster. And in a roundabout way, if, you know, my efforts have like, maybe he wants to beat my time now. Uh, cause he's ran a 224, uh, Luke has.

• 1:04:43Cameron Hanes?

  Did I laugh at you slower than you?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  It would seem so presently. But if in a roundabout way, like I'm saying, he sees me getting faster and he wants to have the last laugh and then beat my time. Just know that it's gonna be short-lived unless you're planning on going to 215.

• 1:05:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's all good. We, we're not limiting people on what they, what their goals and what they can believe. I mean.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't care.

• 1:05:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's all good. Just bring it.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Come along for the ride and I'll see you on the course.

• 1:05:15Cameron Hanes?

  So I was, I wanted to get your opinion on this. So you've had to, like, over the years, back, way back when in high school, you used to make silly videos.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Right. It was technically college, but yeah.

• 1:05:26Cameron Hanes?

  What?

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Unfortunately, I can't even give myself that.

• 1:05:30Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you're just a bunch of crazy kids.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Cameron Hanes?

  Was that Wedding Crashers? We're just a bunch of crazy kids and they're like.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Not that young. I was 18, but yeah.

• 1:05:40Cameron Hanes?

  So you weren't a little kid, a little, little baby.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:05:44Cameron Hanes?

  But you made silly videos. Anyway, you've put funny stuff. You got a good personality. You've, you've been a creator, I guess, for a long time.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Before, before it was a real thing, I guess.

• 1:05:56Cameron Hanes?

  So my whole point to all that was you've had to deal with being criticized, hate, blah, blah, blah, funny. Oh, you're good. All this. You're pretty good at it now. Pretty good at brushing off and also keeping receipts and also using it for fuel. That's all great. But what is the issue, do you think, with like these elites that talk shit about you? What, what do you think? Now that you've had time to analyze and see like, and you know elites, you know, some cool ones. You know how supportive they are, but you know, there's some out there that wanna shit on what, what you're attempting to do. What's that about?

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  I think it's, it's a little bit of, well, I mean, it's like you're, you're getting maybe, if I can do it, and like, I haven't been training that hard for that long. And also I come from like a gym bro culture. That is what kinda like the, Rory even thought that about me. He's like, at first I didn't really know what you were gonna be like. Like, I thought that you were gonna try to come in and be like, I'm the greatest hybrid ever. And like, you guys are pipsqueaks, but I'm like, if you know me, you know, I'm not like that, I guess.

• 1:07:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  So maybe they're just kinda turned off by, I'm a dumb jock or I'm gonna have like this big ego and I'm just kinda like using running, which is their career as like a means to just prop myself up and say to everyone, like, look at how great I am.

• 1:07:21Cameron Hanes?

  Like attention economy thing.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  Attention economy, yeah. And then also like a smash and grab, like announcing this goal, maybe just, I want, like, I'm not that serious about hitting it. Like, that's kinda what Sage is, like Sage literally said that to someone. He said, I think he's doing it for marketing and publicity, in my opinion. But he thought that I wasn't, I wasn't gonna actually give a real effort.

• 1:07:44Cameron Hanes?

  What, doesn't he talk shit just for marketing and publicity for his page? Doesn't he like call people out all the time? Cause that's just, what's that for?

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  For the love of the game.

• 1:07:56Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, gotcha, gotcha.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Well, he, you know, um, you can only say that and do that if you are a 216 marathoner, I guess, but I'm, I'm gonna get there.

• 1:08:09Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Yeah. I, I, anyway, I was just curious on, on what you think. I think sometimes, I don't know. I don't know. This is, obviously I'm biased, right? Your dad, so take that, take this with a grain of salt. I think some of it is, okay, I told you this like years ago, you got a lot to hate. Okay. There's a lot of, if people wanna hate on you.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  My personality, the way that I look.

• 1:08:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. All the shits. Uh, you know, you get celebrated or whatever, but all I'll say is sometimes people hate on things that they're missing to themselves or wish they would have. And, and when I think about this is like, when you coming in as Chicago, I think 247 had the cameras there. But anyway, you know how to play up to the crowd, right? You're, you're doing shit like this. You're taking off your hat. That is not,

• 1:09:03Cameron Hanes?

  some people would have a hard time doing that and getting celebrated and getting that reaction like, that looked awesome. It was cool footage. It was like, who wouldn't wanna be that man in the arena, so to speak? And I think some of these people might wish they could, they were that, or we got celebrated like that and they're not. And so it comes out as, I hate that guy. And it's, and it's just, it's just because of how it makes them feel. It's not about what you're doing, cause you're doing, obviously everybody's like seeing this and like, fuck, that's freaking badass, but it makes them feel some way, I guess.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, I will say, I'm sure that I'm running without a shirt on. Like, that's probably a no-no in some circles. You gotta wear like your little, uh, race singlet. Um, most people, I think, would say that if they had a problem with it or like, I'm just doing it for attention. Run without a shirt on feels great. Like, that's what I will say about that. And it was kind of a hotter day, so I could like dump water on myself, keep myself cool.

• 1:10:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:10:04Cameron Hanes?

  It's a tactic, cooling, you know, what's that, what's that? It's called something when you cool the surface of your skin. I can't remember what, but even like putting like a web buff.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:13Cameron Hanes?

  Something.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  So in that, like, specific situation, that clip, um, I was so happy and joyful.

• 1:10:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it was, it was real. It was authentic.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, it was just so exciting because, um, major marathons.

• 1:10:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  If you can show up to the start line healthy, you should just have a blast then. And like, and then I was running the times. Like I look at my watch and I was like, I just ran a 520 on that last mile and I feel great. I was so excited and then people like freaking out on the bridge. I'm like, you know, that's my way of like saying like, thank you guys for like being out here. Cause there's just, it's like random people cheering on people that are just sprinting on a Sunday morning.

• 1:10:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  It's kinda cool.

• 1:10:55Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it makes me smile just thinking about that. When you see people just giving all they got to something.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:02Cameron Hanes?

  You wanna, you wanna celebrate them. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a human spirit at its fullest form. And if you can't appreciate that, look in the mirror, something's up.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. And, um, I would say just about every runner that I've interacted with, that's like technically an elite, they're all kind and they're all cool. And I've, I've ran with a lot of them and, um, I don't, I think maybe the people that we're talking about that have an issue with me, I think they're honestly like, probably would fall in the sub elite category. I don't think elite runners pay attention to what the heck I'm doing. I think they're too busy trying to get to the Olympics or something.

• 1:11:44Cameron Hanes?

  Well, yeah, it's very competitive at the top end of this field right now.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, but what I will say is I understand how hard it is like putting goals out there and then you're hell to them. So, Clayton Young, I can honestly say I did not expect him just with that injury going in to be the top American for Chicago. And then he goes out there and he is. And then so I find that out after I get to the finish line. And then he's there giving fist bumps to everyone, you know, because he's probably just like stoked on the day.

• 1:12:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  And then so I go up to him and I give him a hug. I've never met him before. Um, and I was like, dude, I am so happy for you, you know, because like there was doubt, I'm sure circling in his mind because the injury and also people um, thought like some of these new guys were just going to bury him.

• 1:12:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  For whatever reason, um, people are really like, whatever the hot topic is, or the, you know, someone has a good race, you completely forget recency bias.

• 1:12:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  You completely forget about the guys that have our literal Olympians Connor and Clayton.

• 1:12:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Um, and then so for him to come out and have that performance, I was like, dude, I'm so happy for you because I know what that feels like to be doubted. I've been doubted up until this point in the year. And then so, yeah, we just, I was able to like tell him that and I, I wish more people just be like happy for other people just for the sake of like, you put yourself out there and you fricking, you actually did it.

• 1:13:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Like, that's cool.

• 1:13:10Cameron Hanes?

  I love, I mean, I'm just such a fan of running, but I watched his video from Chicago.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Cameron Hanes?

  And it was like, you know, hit, his family was so happy, but he was so overcome with emotion. I think he's crying there at the end.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Cameron Hanes?

  But like his mom and dad, he just seems like the, just like Connor. I don't know if you can have a nicer person out there. It's like these, these guys seem so nice and sweet and caring. And they get people, of course, criticizing them every day. And it's uh,

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Well, I mean,

• 1:13:47Cameron Hanes?

  just the way it goes, I guess.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  It is, you know, like, like you said, in the arena.

• 1:13:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  It is competitive this year to make the Olympic team for America. Holy shit.

• 1:13:56Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:14:41Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:15:21Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:16:06Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  I think, you know, Clayton, probably the emotion that he's feeling, and I'm not even close to him at all, right?

• 1:16:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, people are probably like, oh, is he comparing himself to Clayton? What, you know, whatever.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  No, he bitch slapped me on the course a million times over, but uh,

• 1:16:53Cameron Hanes?

  Well, like when you said, like, he had to go through kind of people doubting you, it's like, you're not comparing yourself, you're just comparing people doubting.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:00Cameron Hanes?

  Somebody who sets a big goal. But yeah, he's, he's at the tip of the spear.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  What I will say is like him being overcome with that emotion, I understand that aspect.

• 1:17:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Because I, I was telling Alicia, it had been after the race, it had been a long time to where we could be genuinely happy and embrace each other and be like, thank God all this work isn't for nothing.

• 1:17:20Cameron Hanes?

  Well, there's a couple of pictures they got, and I think you were, you might've been pointing at her, but then, you know, embracing. Yeah, that, and that was so, your smile was so, not saying you ever have a fake smile, but it was as real as it gets. But it, that was like true, like, kind of like a relief, but happy, like, but it's working.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:43Cameron Hanes?

  And you guys are a team, you know, I mean, um, she gives,

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  She's fucking there every morning at the track.

• 1:17:49Cameron Hanes?

  Everything she's got in a different way than you are, but you couldn't do it without her type thing, you know, and, and um, yeah, it's, it's, that's what I'm saying. That's a human, that's a human spirit. That's what I say. When you watch somebody run a marathon, you see people clapping. That's what you should do because that is celebrating what it means to be a human. Same thing with the emotions and then this and the hugging and the crying. It's like, yeah, when you work your fucking ass off and it works out, that's great. Be happy. Everyone should be happy.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I know, because, which I shouldn't pay attention to negative comments about this, but someone was like, he's acting like he's already hit the trials. You know, like celebrating. And I'm like, do you realize how fucking good it feels to actually get a win?

• 1:18:34Cameron Hanes?

  Celebrate these wins, baby.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  To be able to like hug my wife. For us, it's, it had been a year since St. George, uh, since we had a good race.

• 1:18:43Cameron Hanes?

  And this isn't like a year of like dabbling and hey, maybe I should run a, I mean, this is,

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Fucking every day.

• 1:18:49Cameron Hanes?

  Obsessed every day.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:52Cameron Hanes?

  How can I get better? And it took a year.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  A year's a long time.

• 1:18:57Cameron Hanes?

  It is. Of every day waking up going, yeah, is this gonna work?

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Holy shit, did that feel good.

• 1:19:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, I, you know, so, I don't know, I, I love that part of it, but there's a few, just because I think like this, in, as I said, endurance sports, it just makes a different person. I'm not saying people, other people don't work hard in life. But to suffer,

• 1:19:24Cameron Hanes?

  to suffer for so long in training and all that, and because you can only do a couple a year, and then they might not even go good. So it might be a couple of years before you get the success you, you had been working towards. So I'm like addicted to some of these videos and I saw, is it Mika Wood? Is that her name? Adam Wood's wife?

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, Mika.

• 1:19:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she had an awesome Chicago, but I watched this.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Or awesome New York.

• 1:19:49Cameron Hanes?

  New York, yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Cameron Hanes?

  She, I watched her like one of the last long runs and like how hard she was working and her pace issues. And like, just seems so like, uh, just a pure person. It, it's just cool. And you were like, God, I hope she has a good race. So then I kind of forgot about it because you were running, or no, you weren't running, but Jess was running. Anyway, I was kind of distracted, but then I was like, oh God, how does she do? And she did, you know, 229, awesome race, but.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, five minutes off the winners.

• 1:20:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So right there, right there. And um, what Adam ran Chicago and you ran, right?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:28Cameron Hanes?

  That's her husband, isn't it?

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he has OTQ goal that he's going for, and he's like within a minute now. But yeah, it's, it's freaking tough for everything to line up on the day.

• 1:20:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  And um, you know, for him, it, it kind of reminds me, he has a big goal and he's been running hard for a long time now.

• 1:20:45Cameron Hanes?

  Adam.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Um, Adam, yeah, ran in college and then now he has this OTQ goal, but a lot of setbacks, um, getting injured. And then a race goes your way and then like a couple of miles left, you're just, you're starting to fall off that pace and then, you know, you still PR, but then you didn't quite hit that goal. And then to get back to that point, just injuries. So it's hard. But uh, Mark Dowdell, I don't know, during that, um, his latest backyard.

• 1:21:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  When he won it for America, he, um, yeah, James Boyfriend.

• 1:21:20Cameron Hanes?

  Wait, so Mark.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Mark was, uh, he was saying that it's hard to always have to choose the hard thing. I don't know if you saw that speech. It wasn't a speech.

• 1:21:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  He got back to his tent and he was like, it's really hard when people expect you to always choose the hard thing.

• 1:21:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  And like the pressure that you feel that comes with that is, the one thing that comes with being admired is the cost of your humanity.

• 1:21:48Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  You're no longer a human in people's eyes. You start saying, you start not having results.

• 1:21:55Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  People are done with you.

• 1:21:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  If Goggins was running a marathon, he DNFs a marathon, he's no longer Goggins.

• 1:22:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  But, but the good reasons come up for why you should drop out of a race.

• 1:22:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  Like something happened to you, you're human.

• 1:22:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  You really are.

• 1:22:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's like, oh, Goggins fell off?

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:13Cameron Hanes?

  No, it was a race. They're hard. Shit happens.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you always have to choose the hard thing when you start going down a certain path.

• 1:22:20Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  And the pressure that starts to build up, it's really hard to deal with.

• 1:22:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. You start to feel like, I can't be human anymore because I need to be a robot because I need to be what people need me to be, which for Mark, like he's starting to get to be like that. I know Mark is always going to keep going.

• 1:22:40Cameron Hanes?

  Well, he's won, I think, eight straight now, something like that.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  So it would be hard to be like, to discount him ever.

• 1:22:46Cameron Hanes?

  Well, and, well, not even discount, but, but people now are like, oh yeah, you got, I mean, Mark's going to win. You know, you got it. You do this all the time. You're going to win, right? I mean, obviously you're going to win. Dude, there's no guarantees you can win those things.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:23:02Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you don't know who's showing up. You don't know how you're going to feel. It's like, yeah, he's had a great run, but being an endurance athlete, it's one of the hardest things there is to do.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  It's, well, I mean, like he said.

• 1:23:15Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not, I'm trying, you know, we're not talking military. We're not talking like, you know, brain surgeon. I'm talking like, outside of the stuff, it is hard. It is hard to push when you want to quit.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  It's willpower to the max. Like there's nothing that tests that more because in what world would your body ever be able to run for like a week straight or whatever he does?

• 1:23:38Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  At, at a certain point, at a certain point, your body is going to ask that your body gets some rest. Everything inside you is telling you, I need to stop. Why would I keep going every hour?

• 1:23:49Cameron Hanes?

  What do we do?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  So he has to push that down, drown that out every single time the hour's up.

• 1:23:58Cameron Hanes?

  Hard job.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  It's a hard job and it's worked and it, and it does work.

• 1:24:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  But people need to understand that like, this path that you're going on, it's, it's going to cost you just about everything.

• 1:24:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  And you know, and he's, you know, I don't know what his next race is. I think like Sam Harvey and him, you know, they're going to go head to head at some point. That's going to be really hard.

• 1:24:20Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  That's going to be really hard. And he's going to be expected not only by himself and like the competitive nature within him, expected by the entire world to keep going.

• 1:24:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  And then so he's going to, it's going to come to pass. It's like, well, am I actually going to, am I going to win and beat Sam? Or am I going to stop? And then now I, I no longer know who I am because I'm not a guy who stops. So like, there can be a fucking battle for your soul right there.

• 1:24:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I'm not, I don't want to plant any seed or, or I'm not saying this would ever happen, but what happens a lot of times when people go on these long undefeated streak, it's like, they say that the loss or something bad was the best thing that could, they couldn't deal with the pressure anymore. They needed for the ice to get off of them for a second. And I don't want, I'm not saying that needs to happen to him or it's going to happen to him. I want him to win and retire undefeated or he's not undefeated because he lost his first year or DNFed his first few.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Cameron Hanes?

  But I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that that pressure accumulates and that does impact people. And they, they're like gymnasts sometimes get devastated, but then they're like, I needed that, you know, it's just, now I can get the, all these, you know, you already have these expectations.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  It's like Jess.

• 1:25:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  It's like Jess, you know, like then she was able to come back on her own terms and be like, well, this is fun for me now.

• 1:25:44Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  Um, just like that pressure within you though, you just felt like it couldn't, you couldn't live a normal life. But, um, you know, what I will say about that is it would be an issue if your identity is tied to always winning.

• 1:25:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  And performance. Um, I think Mark has, has that right and that, you know, it, he's already a success in his mind and, and his, uh, wife's eyes because their faith.

• 1:26:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  You know, like they're already accepted by, by God because you know, like they love Jesus and they have him in his heart.

• 1:26:16Cameron Hanes?

  You don't have to earn that.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  You don't have to earn that. You just have to accept that.

• 1:26:20Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  And so he's right in that, but man, we're still human.

• 1:26:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  And, uh, and that is hard to find again when you actually do lose. You're like, well, it's okay because I'm accepted, but these humans now are telling me that I'm not and, and I don't really like that feeling.

• 1:26:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's, um, I think it's just kind of a curse. It's a human curse.

• 1:26:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And then this delusional self-belief.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  It's my favorite thing.

• 1:26:51Cameron Hanes?

  Really hard to get. And it goes quick, but man, if you have it, superpower.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, because so much of what you want is on the other side of just not quitting.

• 1:27:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  Right? Like that breakthrough that I was talking about at Chicago, like when I was talking to those guys after the race, I was.

• 1:27:15Cameron Hanes?

  What guys?

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Um, the 247 guys.

• 1:27:17Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  I was just so happy in the moment because I was like, I knew how bad that hurt to like have to wake up after Ogden and just have the same, um, mindset of like, I can do this.

• 1:27:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  And like writing that down, that's really hard to do when there's absolutely nothing to showcase for it.

• 1:27:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  You know, um, but that delusional self-belief of like me writing down, I think I can still do this.

• 1:27:44Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  And someone would be like, you're a dumbass. Why?

• 1:27:46Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Um, that very belief and that very thought that I had was the reason why I'm going to be able to do this.

• 1:27:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  And, and you can't really, um, you can't ask that anyone else takes that on. Like they have to find that within themselves. You can't want it for someone else.

• 1:28:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right. No, no, it's all internal. Um, I, we talk about the haters just because it's fun, but who has been like the, the biggest supporters or the, the best connection you're, you're thankful for because of this running journey and chasing this big goal? I mean, Rory, of course, is, is a big one. He's been good, but I know there's others.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:28:26Cameron Hanes?

  We've got to make this, we can't just talk all haters.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  Now Rory's the dog for sure. Um, obviously like Alicia, when I think about just running in general, it's always tied to her because she's the one out there actually helping me just every single day. I don't, I don't really run with anyone. It's not because I'm, I think anything other than like, I love sharing the joy with people and I love, it's like, if I can make more people feel good by like me running well, I love that. I, it just doesn't really work out. I, I just like to run by myself, I guess.

• 1:28:54Cameron Hanes?

  I think you reached out to some pros to train with, but no response.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  I guess it wasn't for lack of trying. Uh, but yeah, so, you know, maybe that taught me that I just got to just rely on myself when it comes to the training runs. And I actually don't mind. I like it. Um, except, you know, Alicia will be out there too on her bike with me and then at the track, um, and then Minion will be out there with me. I don't know if you've seen this. Well, Shrek and Minion as well. So.

• 1:29:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Um, but no, I would say, yeah, Rory, um, JT, the entire Let's Tango crew, like, um, a lot of the coaches are out of Flagstaff. And so like being able to run with them, like these are like friends that I'm actually like excited to go and see again in February. Um, like when we go there and visit and see them. But yeah, I would say, uh, like Jess, you know, what run with Jess and then like meet her husband, just like the actual act of running has been able to get me involved with some really, really cool people.

• 1:29:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I, as you're saying that, I think some of your sponsors have also become pretty, pretty good friends, like the 247 guys or the Transparent Labs people.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  247 for sure. Like Diego, um, and Julian, like they were out there. They came and visited our home to like make that film in Chicago. And after I ran well at Chicago and I would, I think that I kind of sensed the urgency that I needed to run well. Julian was like, dude, I'm so freaking happy for you. And I was like, yeah, dude, I mean, thank you. So.

• 1:30:26Cameron Hanes?

  They're invested too.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  Transparent Labs guys.

• 1:30:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  I have my gels with them. Um, so yeah, like Brandon, Ben, Zach. No, we are, we have like a funny group chat together that we always are just like giving each other updates and like they're running ultras too now these days because, um, like Leadville, they were there for Leadville. They were there for London and I shit the bed there. But then, yeah, we just stay updated on everything and it's been really fun. But yeah, it's, it's weird where like how many people you can become involved with because running is, you're pushing yourself for personal reasons because like a personal goal.

• 1:31:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  Or a health, whatever it may be. A lot of people are getting into running these days.

• 1:31:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  And so it's cool, even people that come out and like support the marathons. And then Chicago had like 55,000 runners and, um, it's so many people that are just trying to get better that like, there's a lot of friendship to be had there.

• 1:31:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like, some of this is like a byproduct. It's, it's, yeah, of course we, we have these sponsorships, but then you create friendships out of it. And it's like, then there's other people who are inspired, like the Sunday's Best Running Crew, that, that guy.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  Dakota.

• 1:31:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. He sent us a super nice message. I think, uh, James was corresponding with him, but he sent me some stuff too. Um, but yeah, it's just guys like that. And then you just start, you know, I had Matt Johnson out here who that was fun. Mark Dowdell out here. It's a had

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Marco.

• 1:32:02Cameron Hanes?

  Marco. And it's like, it's just the coolest people and it's just fun. It's fun. And it's healthy and it's positive.

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:12Cameron Hanes?

  Feels like.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, um, you know, they're tough.

• 1:32:16Cameron Hanes?

  Definitely.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's people that wake up every day and they want to get better.

• 1:32:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  And that's something that's very contagious and that's something you want to be around.

• 1:32:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's a different mindset.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  If you can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic, it's like, why would you ever choose being a pessimist?

• 1:32:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  And, and so I think a lot of runners are choosing to be optimists because everyone has like these lofty goals in a way, when it comes to running. Being around those people, that does something to you.

• 1:32:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  It, it makes you want to be better and it does make you better.

• 1:32:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, I mean, yeah, well, that human connection again, it's, it's you, you're choosing who you spend time around, who you listen to, who you let impact you. And if it's all positive, you're going to grow.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, like, um, you know, obviously like me, you and Tanner, uh, we would go and hunt together all the time growing up and then have to run Piska against each other. You would make us race. And then playing like, uh, football, basketball, doing whatever. What I didn't realize at the time is that you are who you are, like you were just my dad growing up and then, but Tanner, obviously I didn't know he was going to be a ranger. You guys are pretty tough. And then so like me just spending time and hanging out with you and always competing like that does something to you, just like by association. And you can find that in your adult life too. Like just because, you know, maybe your brother isn't a ranger or, uh, your dad isn't

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  freaking, um, Cam Haynes, you can still find these people and you can learn a lot from them. You can get better.

• 1:33:49Cameron Hanes?

  Definitely. Yeah. We were, me and Tanner were just talking about like all the basketball we played out in front of the house and he's like, a lot of tears. Well, we went pretty hard.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Well, and a lot of basketball has been thrown all the way to the end of the street and then go get it.

• 1:34:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they, uh, we, I don't know, very competitive, but that's why I say when, when I see people talking shit to me or want to say whatever, it's just like, you want to compete? I've been fucking competing my whole life.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Cameron Hanes?

  Let's go.

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  I, I really don't mind. And I've also gone a long time without any success. Like, like growing up with you guys, fuck, I, I don't even think that I've still won a basketball game against Tanner. And we've played a lot of times.

• 1:34:40Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a tough matchup.

• 1:34:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a tough matchup, but you know, I always think, I'm like, you know, like, get started on this journey. People are like, I know a two nineteen marathoner that's been trying for the trials for years. And they still haven't been able to get it. So what makes you think that you could do it? And I was like, if you think I would allow a couple of minutes to stop me from getting this goal. It's like, that is so far, I, I even know people that were like a few seconds from hitting it and then they just stopped.

• 1:35:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Like trying to reach that goal of OTQ. That's just not in me.

• 1:35:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  I, I don't know where that comes down to. It's probably childhood or something, being a little brother. But yeah, no, I mean, dude, if I'm going to let a couple of seconds stop me, holy shit. I mean, it's been

• 1:35:27Cameron Hanes?

  You never really got started.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  No, like I said, I was 18 minutes away this year. I was even more than that, actually.

• 1:35:33Cameron Hanes?

  Two forty-two.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Well, no, Austin was this year, two thirty-six.

• 1:35:37Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, two thirty, or what was forty-two? Oh, that was a first Austin.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And we thought that was fast.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I remember when I, when I told you, I was like, I think I might try to like, uh, go to the trials. I told you that after Eugene. I was two thirty-four at that time.

• 1:35:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  And I was like, holy shit, I'm right there.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  And, uh, I thought it was just going to happen like that, but, uh,

• 1:35:58Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you were improving so fast at that time.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you told me, you're like, yeah, I, I thought you might like have that goal, but I, I just wonder if like, hopefully it's not like too late, right? Like that was kind of like, we didn't really know what it would take to get that much faster, but um, I think we're starting to get a, an idea and now it's getting Rory helps a lot.

• 1:36:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah, definitely. No, it's, it's been, it's so fun to watch and like, even again, I'm your dad, so I'm going to care more, but like, I'll even text you and like, where's my weekly video? If it didn't come out on Wednesday or Thursday, I'm like, what the fuck is going on with this video? So yeah, it's just been fun being, you know, watching and seeing your success and you know, it's the failures suck and seeing the people like kind of celebrate your failure as a dad.

• 1:36:55Cameron Hanes?

  Gets on my nerves, but then the success is, is amazing. And then of course, running together and, you know, I love, I'll just be honest, I love that you're so much better than me because I wanted that forever. I want, I wanted, wanted you to believe how good I thought you could be from that first run in the, that run in the rain on Spencer's that one day. When I said you're, you're a phenom. I want you to believe it, but it took a while.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it did take a while, but I don't, again, I don't think that I'd be who I am if I didn't go on the path that I did.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  And yeah, I, I guess like the, the biggest takeaway I hope people have from this is that,

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  I was down and out, you know, I've been down and out as well, like during this goal. And the only reason why I'm now trending in the right direction, have some momentum is because I didn't give up. So, you know, I know, I know someone, um, that just ran, they wanted a sub three goal at the Indianapolis marathon today and ran three eighteen. So eighteen minutes off, I was eighteen minutes off my goal as well this year, but you know, I'm not giving up because I have some, uh, progress now, but don't give up, dude.

• 1:38:07Cameron Hanes?

  And that eighteen was a step backwards. Like I think that's a step, is that a step backwards for, for him?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:38:13Cameron Hanes?

  But shit happens. It's really hard.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, I mean, I would have told you, I would have given you my life savings and said, I'm going to run sub two twenty-five at Ogden.

• 1:38:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Dead wrong, dead, dead wrong. Um, had no clue what to do next, other than, you know, different fucking plan, like I was saying.

• 1:38:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  You gotta try something different. Don't do the same thing over and over and over. One thing you can't change is that belief in yourself.

• 1:38:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, one thing I was curious about, um, we do have to get over for Tanner, at, to Tanner for dinner at some point, but, uh,

• 1:38:50Cameron Hanes?

  so what I always see and

• 1:38:56Cameron Hanes?

  worry about sometimes is people see our family and they're like, oh yeah.

• 1:39:03Cameron Hanes?

  Um, his dad pushed him really hard and now look, and they look at Tanner. If they could see Tanner, they'd see the same things, like all so, so much success. And, um, they would say, I need to do that with my kid. What, what would you say? Like, what was it like to have a dad? That was a psycho, but do you have advice for dads not to, you don't want to ruin your relationship with your father and son? You don't want to, we don't want to ruin that. And we're lucky. We, we didn't, I didn't ruin it. I tried, but what, what do you think about that?

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Well, what I will say is for a long time, your two things, running and hunting. Guess what I hated?

• 1:39:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  Up, up until recently.

• 1:39:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Right? Running and hunting. So I think that speaks to, I think that speaks to kids naturally don't want to do hard things. I think that there's some truth to that. I also think, is it viewed as like a punishment or is it like a positive? You know, like you could be really good and like, I'm going to encourage you or like, is it a,

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  we would go to Piska and Tanner and I used to wish it would get hit by a meteor.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  Cause I think that it was, it was challenging and you, I, I guess like a way to put context to this is like, you're pretty tough and you were tough on like cameraman, right? Like notoriously.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Have you ever had like, has cameraman ever been, they're like, their shit has been rocked by working and hiking around with you because it's like, it's hard.

• 1:40:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like you most likely took that mindset into running Piska, like instead of, I don't even know, you're probably there for a workout as well. It's like, you want to get better. You only have so much time. It'd be like if Rory's bringing his kids along with him to go on a training run.

• 1:41:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  There's going to be stress there because you also need to get something in that time. It's not going to work out, but the way that it worked out was that you were a babysitter and you were also trying to train and get better. And so we were hap, we happened to be there. Um, I would say like, watch out for the pressure you're putting on them. And also if they can choose to love to do something and like they want to do it, I would say that's good. Whereas like, it started to turn into, we don't want to be here, but we still have to do it. So now we hate this. And anytime that we have to go and do this, that fucking sucks.

• 1:41:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, you know, like even Rory with his kids, he's like, I just want to make sure that I don't try to push them to do things that they don't want to do because then they're never going to like take ownership of it. And I was like, yeah, you know, it's funny because you know, we didn't have that option.

• 1:41:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  You know, like we kind of just had to do the things, but, um, you know, that we had to kind of take your hobbies because if mom's gone and then it's only you there, you know, work has to come and like, we're going to come and tag along. So you kind of, it's almost like a luxury.

• 1:42:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause at, at this time, we didn't have any money. So Trace had to still work.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Cameron Hanes?

  Part-time or, or whatever. So I was in charge. She's working like

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  graveyard.

• 1:42:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And then I would be in charge of, of, you said babysit. I've heard that you don't have to babysit your own kids.

• 1:42:32Cameron Hanes?

  I don't think that's true because I was babysitting, but yeah, then I'd take you with me on my errands.

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, which Piska bow rack.

• 1:42:42Cameron Hanes?

  We're going to the bow rack, guys. Oh, you guys hated the bow rack. I'll just, I'll be right back.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  This, this is before iPads. So what, what would you do? You would just sit there and then try not to mess with things. But the bow rack, there's a lot of things you can push around and, and get in trouble, uh, get accidentally shot by a bow and.

• 1:43:03Cameron Hanes?

  No, I that's always that's always comes up when I talk father, son, or like, you know, how do you push your because of the

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  I don't know the answer, honestly.

• 1:43:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, the struggle with me was I saw you had this talent and I wanted to like, okay, let's not waste this shit.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:21Cameron Hanes?

  But can't make somebody love something.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  No, no, but um, like I said, that toughness that does last and me not wanting to do something. There's a desire, part of my brain to not want to do that track workout yesterday.

• 1:43:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  The four by or the the 12 400s.

• 1:43:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  At a fast pace and then a one minute rest and you do and I felt like shit as soon as I got there, I was telling you.

• 1:43:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, my gosh, the warm up hurt. So imagine me sprinting for 12 laps.

• 1:43:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  But that little muscle in my brain of I don't want to do this, but I have to do it anyway. That's done a lot of good for me.

• 1:44:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  So I don't know. I mean, like some people will rise to the occasion, be able to work past it. Other people might not and like they're going to give up, but

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  that sucks. I mean, it's kind of a case by case thing.

• 1:44:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Luckily, it's worked out for all of us kids. But um, I don't know.

• 1:44:24Cameron Hanes?

  Neither. But what I do know is we're going to give away a Bentley right now. And then do you have a couple of quick questions for him?

• 1:44:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, let's call this kid real quick.

• 1:44:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay. So Ethan Taylor.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  Shout out Ethan.

• 1:44:44Cameron Hanes?

  Let's go, baby.

• 1:44:51Cameron Hanes?

  Can you hear that?

• 1:44:53Speaker 04

  Hello?

• 1:44:54Cameron Hanes?

  Is this Ethan?

• 1:44:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is Cam.

• 1:44:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. How you doing, buddy?

• 1:45:00Speaker 04

  Good. How are you?

• 1:45:01Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, pretty good. Just checking. I was doing a podcast here with my son Truett. You ever heard of him?

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  What's up, Ethan?

• 1:45:09Speaker 04

  I'm a huge fan of Truett, yeah.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks, dude. Thank you.

• 1:45:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, anyway, we're just wondering what you've been up to lately. Hadn't talked to you in, well, your whole life. And I just wanted to check in.

• 1:45:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's it.

• 1:45:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just, yeah, just keep in touch.

• 1:45:29Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:31Cameron Hanes?

  One, one, one other thing.

• 1:45:34Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:45:34Cameron Hanes?

  You won the Bentley, dude.

• 1:45:36Speaker 04

  No way.

• 1:45:37Cameron Hanes?

  You won the Bentley in 10,000 cash.

• 1:45:41Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  Well, I guess only if you want it, though.

• 1:45:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, only if you want it.

• 1:45:47Speaker 04

  I mean, yeah, yeah, I'll take it.

• 1:45:50Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Well, we're going to figure out, we'll fly you out here. And we'll just figure out when that would work out best for you. And yeah, you won. Congratulations.

• 1:46:00Speaker 04

  Man, I can't thank you guys enough. This is, this is awesome.

• 1:46:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no problem. Tell me what you bought. Like, how'd you win?

• 1:46:11Speaker 04

  I just bought a hoodie.

• 1:46:13Cameron Hanes?

  One hoodie?

• 1:46:13Speaker 04

  Great hoodie.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a lucky hoodie.

• 1:46:18Cameron Hanes?

  That is a lucky hoodie. That's I remember people told me, I'm going to spend my whole paycheck trying to win this thing. And I said, don't do that. Please don't do that. But maybe more than one hoodie. Come on, no. I, I actually don't even care if people just enter for free and win. I just want to give it away, but I'm super pumped. You got it. And I just want to congratulate you.

• 1:46:39Speaker 04

  Thank you. I appreciate that.

• 1:46:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, what you're, you're from Pennsylvania. Did I hear that right?

• 1:46:45Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:46:46Cameron Hanes?

  All right.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Go Birds.

• 1:46:48Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:46:49Cameron Hanes?

  No? Pittsburgh?

• 1:46:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:52Cameron Hanes?

  Or the Steelers?

• 1:46:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Oh, hey, A-Rod.

• 1:46:56Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  Hey, we got a Rogers jersey right here.

• 1:46:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we're big, we're big Rogers fans. So, okay, yeah, good, good choice there. Well, yeah, I'll have, I'll have my team reach out to you and yeah, I'm super, super excited for you. I can't wait to meet you.

• 1:47:12Speaker 04

  Man, thanks, Cam. I can't wait to meet you. This is awesome.

• 1:47:16Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Well, take care. We'll, we'll get you out here as soon as we can make it work. And yeah, have a good night.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice to meet you, brother.

• 1:47:24Speaker 04

  Hey, you as well. You guys have a good one.

• 1:47:26Cameron Hanes?

  All right. See you, buddy. Bye.

• 1:47:30Cameron Hanes?

  Did you film that?

• 1:47:31Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:47:32Cameron Hanes?

  You were supposed to.

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  How old is he?

• 1:47:36Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know how old he, we probably can't ask that question. I don't know. But I heard he's, I don't know. Do you know how old he is?

• 1:47:43Speaker 04

  12.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Well, he sounded like a young guy.

• 1:47:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  That'll be cool.

• 1:47:47Cameron Hanes?

  I think, I think we're just basing, he sounded young. I don't know how old he is.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's cool that he's, he's gonna have a Bentley.

• 1:47:55Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy. All right, let's, what do you got?

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  This question was just when you guys were talking about dads and their relationship with their son. Cam, you said this gift you saw on Truett and running, you didn't want him to waste it. But what it made me think about is how you could perhaps have a gift in running yourself, but you decided to spend it on bow hunting. So how do you determine when you see a gift in a child and not wasting it where it could be dedicated to some other discipline?

• 1:48:26Cameron Hanes?

  Why are you asking me questions? How the fuck would I know?

• 1:48:33Cameron Hanes?

  So here's what I'll say. My passion was not for running. It was for bow hunting. So maybe I could have been a great runner, but that's not, I wanted to bow hunt. So I say, chase your passion.

• 1:48:48Speaker 02

  But what if Truett's passion was video games?

• 1:48:51Cameron Hanes?

  It was.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  Do that.

• 1:48:53Cameron Hanes?

  It was Yu-Gi-Oh cars.

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  Yu-Gi-Oh cards were sick.

• 1:48:58Cameron Hanes?

  Hey, yeah, my passion was Blue Eyes White Dragon.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yu-Gi-Oh cars. Let's go. I wanted that. And I, and I, I've seen like dads say, oh, you shouldn't, wait, I don't want to talk shit about anybody.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  Rewind?

• 1:49:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So they'd say

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  My passion was SpongeBob.

• 1:49:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, basically saying, like, what was I supposed to do? Sit on the couch and watch cartoons with my kids all day? Is that, you think that would be better? So, um, yeah, I think, yeah, I don't want some worthless fucking pursuit. But, um, yeah, like for me, it was just has to be, they're both healthy pursuits. And, um, I wanted to be a hunting writer. I loved hunting. I loved telling my stories. I didn't want to be a, a running writer. I didn't want to tell my running stories. I didn't care about that. So I went with, you know, where my heart was and, you know, it's taken me to where I'm at now. Good question, though.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Truett, I wanted to ask you more about your gels. Why? Where, where did you find the, the reason behind wanting to create your own gel?

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  I wanted to put

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  a Honeycrisp apple into a gel because I love apples so much. I used to ask mom to cut apples into funny shapes. Remember that?

• 1:50:20Cameron Hanes?

  And exotic veins you wanted.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  And I wanted exotic veins and baby, we got them.

• 1:50:26Speaker 01

  But yeah, so my stomach, I kept on like freaking after the races, my stomach would be donezo. And sensitive stomach over here because I just eat at home. So if I have anything that I don't normally have, it's not good.

• 1:50:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  Um, so the gels are just super easy on your stomach. 25 carbs and the sodium keeps you from cramping. And then so all that was added in on purpose, helped formulate that with Transparent Labs. And yeah, they're coming back in stock. They sold out super quick, but coming back in stock, January, go and grab some. They are the best.

• 1:51:02Cameron Hanes?

  Holla.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Holler at your boy.

• 1:51:04Cameron Hanes?

  I was thinking about this when you said gels, then I thought of hair gel. Then when I thought of hair gel, I thought of

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Something about Mary?

• 1:51:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yes. And then I didn't think of that, but then Trace told me today, like she says, my hair is all dry because it's old and gray, or some of it's all old and gray mixed in. She said, use a conditioner. And I came up in my head that conditioners, basically you clean your hair, then you make it greasy again on purpose. So what is conditioner? What is just fucking grease for your hair?

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  I got a good story for you.

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  When I was little, I thought like, oh, conditioner for your hair, it's got to be the same as like lotion, skin conditioner.

• 1:51:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. I got out of the shower and I was like, I should use some conditioner and I put lotion all over my hair.

• 1:51:58Cameron Hanes?

  Well, yeah, it's basically the same fucking thing. Yeah.

• 1:52:00Speaker 02

  No, it did not act.

• 1:52:05Cameron Hanes?

  The result is not the same.

• 1:52:06Speaker 02

  I guess, I guess it matters if you're still in the shower and you can wash it out as opposed to just leaving the lotion in your hair.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  There's a thing called leave-in conditioner, though. If you're in the game, in the industry, leave-in conditioner, it's kind of like that. It's like leaving it in your hair. You don't need to wash it out. I use conditioner. So you have any questions about it, let me know.

• 1:52:25Cameron Hanes?

  I can't afford to make my, my thinning hair any more greasy.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  Because then you just have a greasy scalp.

• 1:52:35Cameron Hanes?

  And then also, here's what gets you right in the ass is when you don't use conditioner, then also you use it, but then you forget to rinse it out because you never use it. And then you get out and your hair, you're just like, what the fuck is going on with my hair? It's got conditioner in it.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Man.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I had to do that today. I got out of the shower and realized I didn't wash soap out of some areas.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  Life is hard for you guys.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  The second hardest thing I've ever done.

• 1:53:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I had another thought, but now I can't remember what it was. But do you have another one?

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  No, that's it.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Heck, yeah.

• 1:53:06Cameron Hanes?

  Do you have another, do you have another one? What did we not cover? This is

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  See, this is like two hours. I think we covered just about everything.

• 1:53:13Cameron Hanes?

  Truett's PR team. Anything do we need to cover? Do we need to hate? Oh, we're not hating on anybody. So I thought that was going to be the whole discussion. We got to get rid of this fucking board now.

• 1:53:29Cameron Hanes?

  What is it?

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  What am I reading?

• 1:53:32Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah. What are you reading?

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  Secret Race and also Mossin's Will.

• 1:53:37Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, Secret Race is about this Tyler.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Tyler Hamilton cycling with Lance and just that whole postal service team. Apparently, they got up to some naughty activities.

• 1:53:52Cameron Hanes?

  Shenanigans?

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  Shenanigans.

• 1:53:53Speaker 02

  Shenanigans.

• 1:53:54Cameron Hanes?

  But they won.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  But their mindset for winning was pretty crazy. And then Mossin's Will is just a dude, he has to travel through Antarctica by himself. Vitamin A poisoning, so his skin's just ripping off and his balls are just raw. And his hair is falling out.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Is it a picture book?

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  And his friends died.

• 1:54:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm sure you like that.

• 1:54:16Speaker 01

  Scratch and sniff. You like that. Now, this is a real story. Buddies died and had to eat the dogs. Was eating their liver and a super high in vitamin A.

• 1:54:28Cameron Hanes?

  That's usually what the animals go to first when they kill shit.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  Yep. And then toxic for humans. And the guy that he was taking care of at the time, lost his mind, bit off his finger. Ended up just dying, going into a coma, dying. And then so now he has to travel like 100 miles through Antarctica by himself. Like, not a lot of food, obviously, not a lot of water, nothing really to protect himself from the conditions. And well, that's where the book, I still need to finish that one, but it's about his will to survive.

• 1:54:59Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  What was that?

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And so he repeats to himself, win the day. Like, Robert Service has this poem that he just keeps repeating in his mind. It's like, win the day, do your damnedest to, like, try your hardest, essentially. And Robert Service, you know him?

• 1:55:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  And, but yeah.

• 1:55:22Cameron Hanes?

  That was a poem I just read in my bellhunter film.

• 1:55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  And it goes to show that dudes even back then, like, you think about mindset or quotes that are in your mind. Like, it's just pain, keep hammering, or stay hard from Goggins. The shit, when your back is against the wall, it works.

• 1:55:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  When you need help and you need to remember what someone has said before, like, words are powerful. Mantras are powerful and what you say to yourself matters. So when the going gets tough, don't be afraid to throw some of those out. It actually does help.

• 1:55:57Cameron Hanes?

  And smile.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  A smile helps. Yeah, a smile helps.

• 1:56:00Cameron Hanes?

  It does. It changes something in your brain when you smile.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're Abdullah Amlangada. Call back.

• 1:56:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's a.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Shout out, Heuerman.

• 1:56:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Also, speaking of Lance, I was gonna go, I got this book upstairs, but it's Lance's first book. I think it's before all the scandal, but it's called It's Not About the Bike. So good.

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  It's about the Abdullah Amlangada.

• 1:56:24Cameron Hanes?

  It is. Yeah, it is. You're freaking nailing that.

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:56:29Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  It's very admirable for me to say like, so closely.

• 1:56:36Cameron Hanes?

  And who can't say admirable?

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:56:40Speaker 01

  What shit are you talking? We gotta go down this again?

• 1:56:43Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, shit. Yeah, so, yeah, that that story of Lance's, that was when he had the cancer and came back and won. It's super awesome. But anyway, yeah, I love, I love just stories of overcoming.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  And I love Lance.

• 1:57:00Cameron Hanes?

  Me too.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Cameron Hanes?

  I definitely love Lance.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  No, I mean, that's a, that's a story that everyone wants. And I knew that, you know, this goal was gonna have a lot of people that doubted me. But I knew that it was gonna be a good story when it was said and done. And, you know, I'm still on that path, but once it's done, I hope a lot of people can look back on like the series and find some inspiration for their own story that they want to tell.

• 1:57:25Cameron Hanes?

  And be ready for when we break that 259 father and son in the history of human record.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  459.

• 1:57:33Cameron Hanes?

  Or what did I say, 259?

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be really good.

• 1:57:36Cameron Hanes?

  You better get a lot faster. But no, the 459 combined father and son of all time marathon record. Held by Ireland right now.

• 1:57:46Speaker 01

  And to all the fathers and sons out there, come get some if you want it. Honestly, we'll see. There's some fast kids out there.

• 1:57:54Cameron Hanes?

  There is. And some fast old dads.

• 1:57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. But yeah, no, we're coming for it all. Father, son, all time marathon.

• 1:58:03Cameron Hanes?

  Biggest supporter, you have Tommy Rives, one of them.

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  Tommy is a dog.

• 1:58:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I just, when we were thinking about that, I was like, forgot about him, but yeah, he's awesome.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  He had a shoe come out with the Craftsman's.

• 1:58:17Cameron Hanes?

  Craft.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  Craft sports, sportswear?

• 1:58:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he sent me those. I want to say thank you to him and also thank you for giving me advice over this journey.

• 1:58:28Cameron Hanes?

  I love, him and his brother are the best.

• 1:58:31Speaker 01

  Salt of the earth.

• 1:58:32Cameron Hanes?

  They are.

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  Alicia just grabbed a book about salt and salt used to be used for like salaries. No, that's where the word salary comes from. Anyway, salt of the earth. It's really important, salt is, and so are those guys.

• 1:58:45Cameron Hanes?

  I love peanut butter on celery.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Ants on a log.

• 1:58:51Cameron Hanes?

  I love peanut butter on my celery.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  Anyway, Jacob, Tommy, thank you, guys.

• 1:58:57Cameron Hanes?

  Love those guys. All right. See, this is how our discussions used to always go. Never serious, always sarcastic, never accomplishing anything. Yeah, my dog.

• 1:59:11Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Keep crammering.

• 1:59:12Speaker 01

  All right, peace.

• 1:59:13Cameron Hanes?

  Bye.