KHC 152 - Wounding

Talking about wounding an animal is taboo for most people – Join Cam Hanes and James Williams for a deep dive into wounding and the steps you can take to prevent it from happening, and if it does happen, what you can do to recover the animal. This is IMPORTANT, and this is why we’re talking about it. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 Stats: Wounding Game with a Bow VS Rifle 00:05:17 Ethics in Hunting 00:10:12 Different Types of Shots: Arrow & Bullet Wounds 00:15:39 A Bull Cam Wounded 00:18:58 Different Types of Blood: Knowing the Difference When Blood Trailing 00:27:06 Everything Matters: Confidence in Your Shot 00:30:12 Why Talking About Wounding in Taboo 00:34:55 1994: Wounding a Blacktail Deer 00:38:20 Following Tracks 00:44:39 High Percentage Shots 00:46:15 “Cute” Shots 00:48:54 Selecting the Right Broadheads 01:02:40 Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: ⁠https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/⁠ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cameron Hanes?

  Hoyt began with a dream and a simple desire. Create the best bow hunting and target archery equipment possible. And since 1931, that is exactly what they have been doing. I'm skeptical every year that this year's bow will be better than last year's. Yet somehow their engineers seem to figure it out. I think that's what sets them apart is their engineers are all avid hunters themselves. So they take their bows in the field every year with intent to make them stronger, faster, and more accurate. Hoyt is actually my lifetime bow sponsor. Yes, I signed a lifetime contract with them. That is how much I believe in them. Hoyt is offering listeners of the podcast 20% off on all soft good items at Hoyt.com using code CAM. That's CAM.

• 0:46Cameron Hanes?

  One of the favorite packages I get every month is a Black Rifle Coffee Club Exclusive Roast. The only way you can get it is if you're a member of the club. And with hunting season right around the corner, I've got to mention one of my favorite Black Rifle items for elk camp, the Vanilla Bomb Instant Coffee Stick. Super easy, super good, and perfect for those early mornings in the mountains. Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee. Veteran owned and operated, and they give back big time to the hunting and conservation community, and especially to veterans. Right now, they're offering listeners 20% off of your first purchase of the Coffee Club or any order on their site. Just use code KEEPHAMMERING at checkout and get America's coffee today.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use every comment hate that makes my feel gather up my energy and boom, I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood, so I am relentless.

• 1:44Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, this is the Keep Hammering Collective with James Gideon Williams. This is not Shit Talkers 12.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  No, we're on our best behavior.

• 1:54Cameron Hanes?

  No, by the book.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56Cameron Hanes?

  This is serious. No, no talking about, you know, body hair on the women below the eyebrows at all.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:04Cameron Hanes?

  There should be none below the eyebrows. I mean, I guess it's like, I guess the back of the hair is a little bit, okay. So maybe, maybe from the neck down. No.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, nose down.

• 2:20Cameron Hanes?

  No, um, scratch that part. I don't know. I mean, you can leave that in, but today, kind of a serious topic, actually, as serious as I get, really. This is about wounding. And I said last week, or this week, or whatever week that I was going to talk about wounding, because it's a thing. I don't have the stats on it. I did talk to, man, the biologist at Wild Country Outfitters or Adventures, and like the wounding differences between their bow hunters and their rifle hunters. And I believe he said it's kind of about the same.

• 3:01Cameron Hanes?

  So, hunting is not perfect. Killing is not perfect. Killing a wild animal with an arrow, or even a bullet, is not an execution. It is hunting. And there are variables that weigh in, and these animals are very tough, and they can withstand a lot and survive. And so I want to talk about it.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  That the wounding kind of being similar is, I think, surprising, because everyone always says.

• 3:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, bow hunters, they get the bad rap for wounding, for sure. But, and I brought up, I'm a little, you know, I don't rifle hunt, but I know the long range shooting is a thing now, and the guns can do it. But just because the guns can do it, does not mean the shooter can do it.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  It's just like a bow.

• 3:55Cameron Hanes?

  Just like a bow. I mean, doesn't mean everybody should be shooting 100 yards with a bow. I don't think anybody should be. And same thing with rifles. So, you know, I shot, I know last year, we set up that SIG with Katie, and I shot at 900 and rang the steel. And it's like, Yeah, you can do that.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:15Cameron Hanes?

  That was steel, not moving. I had a rest

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:19Cameron Hanes?

  in a shooting house. It's like, that's absolutely perfect conditions. Or actually, it was a little windy and there's a flag up there. So I had to adjust for the wind, hold on the edge of the steel. But point is, that does not mean that I should shoot 900 yards at an animal. And so when you say that, well, wounding with the with the bone with rifle are similar. I think the long range thing on that, I asked him, I said, is this making it worse? Because the firearms can do it, the bullets can do it. Theoretically, you can do it. People show it all the time. There's a shooting contest. And he said, he hasn't, it hasn't like, like showed itself as far as being that they're wounding more because, and I think there, it's pretty controlled. You know, they're not going to

• 5:04Cameron Hanes?

  say, hey, yeah, 700 yards, take it.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's not public land. You know, this is on public land. When you got a guy who has been busting his ass for a week in the snow, and finally sees a one bull, and it's at 600 yards. Some people, because of that, those challenges are gonna shoot.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:30Cameron Hanes?

  And they might not hit perfect.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's a, I mean, 500 yards now is like, nobody even scoffs at it, but

• 5:37Cameron Hanes?

  I know, it's so far, dude.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is a poke.

• 5:40Cameron Hanes?

  So far, I know I had Katie last year. I can't remember, did you, you filmed her, right?

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. How far was that first where I had her laying down? Was it 400?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:48Cameron Hanes?

  Or like 425?

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Yep, 425.

• 5:51Cameron Hanes?

  And obviously, it's the same gun Tanner has right now. And so we know, and you'll, I'm not going to spoil his story, but we know the gun can shoot. I think that might be the gun that I shot 900 yards with. But the point is, I wasn't going to have Katie shoot at 425. So we circled around, got the wind right and got like 80, or 100, whatever it was.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:15Cameron Hanes?

  And she smoked that buck and dropped in his tracks. So yeah, the guns can do it. The bows can shoot, say, 100. That does not mean everybody should be doing that. I don't think hardly with a bow, for sure, hardly anybody, maybe Levi Morgan, and under perfect situation, could, could, you know, get a kill at 100 yards with an arrow. I'm not gonna do it, but I'm not, I don't make the rules for everybody. I just want to talk in, like, pretty candidly about wounding. So, we know that it happens. We know that that's part of hunting. What, how do we mitigate that

• 6:54Cameron Hanes?

  as hunters? What, what is the approach? My approach, and, you know, growing up on public land, uh, nobody really talked about wounding. Um, you didn't want to wound. I don't remember, I don't even know what the laws are on it. I know you probably shouldn't go out and be wounding, you know, four or five animals, having them laying out there dead.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:19Cameron Hanes?

  So, you know, a big part of archery and even rifle hunting is we police ourselves. Um, there's game wardens, but way more hunters than game wardens. And they can be everywhere. And we're in the middle of, you know, the mountains, and there's no audience, as we've talked about, there's no crowd, it's just you. And you, part of being a hunter, is you have a responsibility to offer the animal a merciful and compassionate death.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, I mean, I remember in Hunter's Safety, like, the huge section on ethics is, like, it might not be illegal, but is it ethical?

• 8:03Cameron Hanes?

  Is it right?

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:04Cameron Hanes?

  You know, right or wrong?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:05Cameron Hanes?

  And a law can't cover that, you know, it's, uh, so there's ethics, there's, there's big, big ethics. Um.

• 8:14Cameron Hanes?

  For me personally, how it is now, and I've evolved, you know, as I've said before, when I first started, I didn't, I didn't even care really about, wouldn't even think about that I was killing an animal, or what it meant, or the, the gravity of the situation. I was a kid and I'm just like, hey, yeah, I'm gonna go try to kill a buck. Shoot a buck.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:34Cameron Hanes?

  Cool. Take a couple of pictures. That's it. That's it. Didn't, I don't even know what it meant. It meant that I was a hunter and so I had, you know, kind of, um, I was trying to earn my stripes, or whatever you do as a hunter, kind of grow, mature, and you learn, and you, uh, you know, gain perspective. And over the years now, so I killed my first buck when I was, uh, 15, and now I'm 58. So.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Carry the one.

• 9:07Cameron Hanes?

  Carry the one. Yeah, remainder. Yeah, whatever.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Forty-three.

• 9:11Cameron Hanes?

  Long time. Okay. I've been hunting a long time. Um, and I've changed over 43 years, as I hope most people would. Um, and now it's, all I care about is a merciful death and not screwing up. I don't want the animal to suffer. I don't want to make a mistake. I don't want to make a poor shot. And still, I'm human. Nobody is perfect.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:40Cameron Hanes?

  As I've said, you can be perfect on the target range. People are doing it all the time. Three hundred scores, sixty X's, that paper's not moving, whatever. You can be a machine. In hunting, it's never going to be that way. And, uh, you know, I, I've shared on this podcast before too, I had a, like a three, I think, well, like a two and a half or three year stretch where I shot nine arrows and killed nine bulls. And at that time, I was a little bit overconfident. I thought I got this. I got, I got this figured out. Now, I didn't, I didn't have it figured out, and I don't have it figured out. Um.

• 10:22Cameron Hanes?

  You know, there's, I'll just think about, I'll just be honest, I have lost animals. And to me, there's a big difference in wounding an animal that's a fatal wound and a superficial wound. And how I navigate that now is if I shoot an arrow, and I believe based on where the arrow hit, how the animal reacts, and the blood on the ground, if that animal's gonna die, I'm done. That's my animal, whether I get it or not. Right. I'm not killing multiple animals during the same season, in the same state, with the same tag. I'm gonna kill one.

• 11:03Cameron Hanes?

  It's up to me to recover that animal, to make a good shot, to put that animal down quickly. And if I don't, if the animal is wounded, and regardless of, you know, what I think, but if the blood is telling me that I think the animal's gonna die and it's a fatal wound, or maybe there's, there's gut material on the arrow, or mostly it'd be guts that you don't find. It's guts or liver. Those are the top, those are the ones that I think are gonna die, and you might not get them. If you don't do everything right, you might not get them.

• 11:42Cameron Hanes?

  An ass shot, usually, if you're gonna kill it with, hit it in the ass, if it's, you're way off and it's a poor shot, I'm not even gonna talk about the Texas Horse Shot, who's basically shooting up its ass, which I, I can't stand that. I can't stand when people show it, talk about it, whatever, because I don't think it's ethical. I think it's, you're shooting at something, you gotta get up that pelvis, up, basically up the ass, through the hole in the pelvis, into its guts, liver, lungs. And if you're not perfect, it's just drilling the pelvis and no penetration. So, that said, you can hit in that hole there, and get the full penetration to the guts,

• 12:23Cameron Hanes?

  and the, and the liver and lungs, or you can get lucky and catch, catch a femoral artery, which runs, basically it's down the spine, splits down the inside of the leg, the back legs, and we have a femoral artery too. If you cut that thing, you are dead in about 30 seconds. So if you get lucky and you hit that on an animal, the animal's gonna, it's gonna, there's gonna be like a gallon of blood on the ground and it's gonna die quick. But chances of hitting a femoral artery, which is about the size of my pinky, is not great because it's on the inside also. It's on the inside of that leg. Terrible shot, uh, not where you want to hit. And um, if you, if you get that animal, you got lucky.

• 13:08Cameron Hanes?

  Normally the arrow would be stuck in his ass and you're not getting it. Could the animal survive that? Yes. They are very, very resilient. Arrows are recovered. Their animals are killed with old arrow wounds in them or pieces of arrow all the time. It's not, they're not us.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 13:28Cameron Hanes?

  If I have an arrow in my back, I'm not running around. I'm being hurt. A bull, you can, you know, I would say last year, I shot a bull in Oregon. I hit it quarter and away, hit it high. And that arrow, I think rode up the rib and about this much of it was in that bull. Arrow came out, broke off. And I looked for that bull for three days and could not, I mean, it went uphill. It was, you know, I don't, I had determined this bull's not going to die. So I went to, uh, I can't remember, I think I went to Utah, then I came back and I actually two weeks later killed that bull.

• 14:14Cameron Hanes?

  And uh, that piece of arrow was in it and there wasn't even a wound on the hide on the outside. It was like, I couldn't even tell that the arrow had hit. So the point is like, these arrows are so clean and so precise, it's like a scalpel cut that can, that can heal, that can definitely heal. And this is not going to get infected for the most part. I mean, their, their immune system is crazy. They're, they're so resilient, but an arrow is not like a bullet. And I kind of mentioned this on, on a previous podcast, but a bullet causes, it kills by uh, damage and shock. And so it's breaking muscle, bone, or I mean, ripping up muscle, breaking bone, shocking that animal.

• 14:57Cameron Hanes?

  It is really hard to, for an animal to recover from a rifle wound. It's just an open wound that has a hard time healing.

• 15:07Cameron Hanes?

  An animal can very easily recover from an arrow wound.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:11Cameron Hanes?

  And that's just not being, I'm not trying to be, cause I'm a, you know, lifelong bow hunter. I'm trying to be unbiased. I'm just going by what I know, what I see, what I hear, what I've researched. Animals recover from arrow wounds all the time, not so much from rifle wounds.

• 15:28Cameron Hanes?

  That said, they can recover from a rifle wound that's not like in the vitals or not, you know.

• 15:35Cameron Hanes?

  I've seen, you know, legs get blown off. They're not, it's gonna be tough to recover from that. An arrow is not gonna blow a leg off.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 15:44Cameron Hanes?

  It's gonna go in, it's gonna cut. An arrow kills by hemorrhage. How we kill is we get into the vitals, hemorrhage, hopefully in the lungs or the heart. And the animal dies very quickly. With a rifle, you kind of go the same thing, but with a rifle, instead of behind the shoulder like you would with an arrow. So you get that penetration into the chest, you might go right through the shoulder. Cause an arrow, a bullet has so much more energy and damage potential and power and speed. You know, it's 3,000 foot a second compared to 300 feet a second. So that bullet can break down even a bull through the shoulders, you know. But for sure a buck. So where you go behind the shoulder with an arrow to hit, to get in the chest and hemorrhage.

• 16:29Cameron Hanes?

  You might go right through the shoulder or right through the front of the chest. A frontal with a rifle is no big deal. It's just a little smaller target with an arrow. That's a low percentage shot. So we, we just talk about that and, you know, I've, you know, that, that wounding example I had. That was last year, the year, maybe it was the year before.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Year before.

• 16:49Cameron Hanes?

  It was a year before. Yeah. So Tanner was filming that. You filmed me last year.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:52Cameron Hanes?

  And that one also is like, that one, it wasn't, it looked pretty dang good on film. But it's, yeah, there's a lot that goes into killing a bull elk with an arrow.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:08Cameron Hanes?

  And I was, I started to say, I had, I wounded a bull.

• 17:16Cameron Hanes?

  So quartering away and thirty-three yards, so it wasn't far, but I held perf- I felt really good. And there was a little bit of brush, I remember, and I thought I had a good window with the arrow ticked one of the pieces of brush and it hit two inches to the right. And so where quartering away would be like the animals not really facing away, not broadside to you, but halfway in between. And so I thought, well, if I go behind the back rib, I'll get in the chest. And you want to aim when you're on the shot like that for the opposite shoulder on the far side. So I thought, well, if I get this arrow here and I hit that far side shoulder, it's going to go through everything, hit the brush and it,

• 18:00Cameron Hanes?

  instead of hitting behind the rib, it hit a little bit to the right and it hit the hip. No penetration arrows hit the hip like two or three inches and just did not penetrate. So what did I do? Well, you got to get on blood. And I didn't know exactly what would happen. Didn't think it was anything close to be able to get a femoral, but you know, that's, that's why you blood trail. That's why you track them. That's why you get on and see what you can learn. And so I tracked that bull for hours and hours and normally

• 18:41Cameron Hanes?

  a fatally wounded animal won't go uphill. They'll either side hill or downhill because they're hurt. And if it's a good shot, they'll, they'll go and then basically just death sprint die in fifty, hundred yards. This bull went up the hill. And normally that's not a fatally wounded animal. But you stay on the blood and the blood told me it was muscle blood. The blood told me that if I would have got behind that last rib, that would have been guts and stomach and that's, you know, they're not going to recover from a gut shot. They're going to die eventually. And I wasn't seeing any, any gut fluid on

• 19:24Cameron Hanes?

  the ground. I wasn't, there was no indication of that I got in the body cavity. It was muscle blood and it was on the one side. So the arrow didn't go in just like I saw it. I mean, it didn't get penetration because I hit that hip bone. And um, yeah, so pretty soon and and we all know how this works the blood. You might have your hopes up because you know, a sharp broadhead will cause some damage. It will, it's a laceration that's going to bleed. And uh, so you might, you might be um, confident to start, but then eventually the blood slows down.

• 20:03Cameron Hanes?

  Slows down to a trickle, then it's maybe a pin drop, maybe brushing up on side of, you know, here in Oregon be ferns there, it might, or some, oh, you know, if you're hunting Rocky Mountain bulls, it might be some other type of brush, but um, pine needles, uh, who knows what, but it's, you're going to be looking for pinpricks of blood.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:25Cameron Hanes?

  And then it's gone.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Talk a little bit about like the difference in blood, gut fluid, that kind of thing. Obviously, it's a, you know, you, you have to play your own detective. You have to put all these clues together.

• 20:37Cameron Hanes?

  It's like CSI a little bit. You're kind of doing a, you know, it's good to learn and to do autopsies essentially on these animals to see exactly what happened when you're successful, or it'll help you figure out what happened if you're not successful.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:54Cameron Hanes?

  And um, so yeah, I mean, I remember that, that big bull right over there that I killed last year in Colorado. People saw that, that kill shot and uh, he spooked and he's up there in the timber and I thought I had a good shot, but I think of that one, there's a tree on the left that kind of was like in my mind that I need to stay away from that tree. So I hit like a few inches to the right, which if I would have hugged that tree, I would have got the lungs, but I was a little bit to the right, so I went liver.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  That one also hit something.

• 21:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it caught a little piece of moss up there. And we saw that fall on the video, so you guys can go back and look that up. But um, on that one, I told you to stay there and I snuck up because I wanted to see if my arrow was there and what the blood looked like. And what I, what I got up there is I saw his tracks kind of running down the backside of the hill, digging in deep like they do when they're getting out of there. And uh, you can learn a lot from tracks too. I mean, when, when a bull runs like that, it's, it's toes are going to be splayed out. Um, bulls are heavy, heavier than cows, so they're really digging in. But what I saw was the blood on the ground is on the left side, that's where I hit that bull.

• 22:08Cameron Hanes?

  It looked dark. It looked liver blood to me. So I came back to you and I said, I'm gonna have to give him some time. It got his liver. And I didn't know for sure, but that's, that's what that was telling me. My experience told me that was liver blood. And on a liver shot, the bull's gonna die. The problem is, they can die, I mean, the liver's not usually a quick death. It can be like maybe an hour, two hours, but generally, it's between four and 12. So.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  It's a big window.

• 22:41Cameron Hanes?

  Not ideal.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:43Cameron Hanes?

  And it's not too dissimilar than guts, other than it bleeds more. So if you get back in the stomach, you're gonna have to give it about 12 hours. And if you don't push him, he won't be that far. But bulls get uncomfortable, or if the arrow's still in them, and they'll get up on their own and move. But you don't want to push them, because a gut shot is not gonna bleed.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:05Cameron Hanes?

  It's, uh, there's intestine, there's fat, there's different things down there. They got thick hide. Normally, and if you're shooting like a, like a fix, or not a fixed blade, if you're shooting a, um, an expandable head like this, and you gotta think about that stomach, if they've been eating, and it's full of grass, or browse, or whatever it is, and this arrow hits, it's basically like if you shot a bag target with a broadhead, it goes in a little bit, and you can't get that thing out. That bag's, well, a stomach full of grass is not too dissimilar than a bag target.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:41Cameron Hanes?

  So, a broadhead might not penetrate very well. If, if an arrow goes in this far in the stomach, and there's no exit hole to bleed, there's no, the entrance hole has an arrow in it, and it's kind of plugged with fat, and maybe some guts, you're not gonna get blood there either. So a gut shot is not gonna bleed. If you push that animal, you're probably not gonna get it.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:04Cameron Hanes?

  Cause there's nothing to go off of. And they are sick, so they're not running, so they're not digging in deep. Even a big bull's not gonna leave you very good tracks. He's gonna walk, cause he's hurt.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:18Cameron Hanes?

  And they can walk a long way. And if they, he walks for a mile, and you have no blood, you're not getting that thing.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 24:25Cameron Hanes?

  So on that bull, I said, Let's back off and I, and I, you know, I went and I killed a buck that night too. And during, while we were giving it that time. And I remember Wes told me, Wes Yoder, he's like, man, he goes, I hit one in the liver and I got on it too soon. And trailed it for like 12 hours and they didn't get it. And it was, um, so to that, to that point is they can survive for quite a while on a liver shot. They're going to die. They're definitely going to die and a gush shot's going to die too. But how soon you get on it matters or how much time you give it matters. So I said, okay, let's, uh, take care of this buck.

• 25:10Cameron Hanes?

  Let's come back first light in the morning because it was, it was like at six at night. So we could be back in there in about 12 hours, which, you know, as I said, they can, they can survive for 12 hours. And we came back in there, uh, blood trailed that bull a couple hundred yards and he had died sometime during the night. And I got him, you know, he, the meat didn't go to waste. Uh, everything was fine, but if I would have that night got on him right after we shot, if I wouldn't have noticed that was liver blood, I doubt if we would have got him. He would have, we would have pushed him and he would have, he wasn't bleeding a ton.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  No, he didn't go far.

• 25:48Cameron Hanes?

  And he didn't go far, but remember how quiet I was being?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:52Cameron Hanes?

  And that's another thing. You've got to be quiet. People get way too noisy. And if that animal's laying there, he's going to hear that and he's out of there. So I remember on that one, I was like psycho about everybody be quiet. Sneak out of here just like we're hunting. And then in back in the morning, let's sneak in here like we're hunting. Cause that bull, I don't know what that bull is, is alive or dead. Everything, as, as I've said before, everything matters. Everything, every decision you make matters, especially when you're trying to kill with an arrow.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Right. And you have to look at it. I mean, those animals are built to survive out there.

• 26:28Cameron Hanes?

  Man, and they're good at it.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you're, you're in their house and trying to find them. Can be almost impossible.

• 26:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a huge challenge. And then what happens is when I'm glassing ridges for elk or mule deer, I can't afford to miss any movement. That's why for the past two seasons, I've been using Sig Sauer binos and I absolutely love them. These optics change the game. The binos I've been using are the Zulu image stabilizing. That means no more shaky glass after a long hike, no more struggling to hold steady after you've humped it up a hill. With image stabilization, you lock in and pick apart the country in a way that just isn't possible with standard glass. I found more animals and saved more time because of these binos, plain and simple. And here's the kicker, optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving the listeners of

• 27:20Cameron Hanes?

  this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had for the past two seasons, head to SigSauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binos. See more, hunt harder. All right, hunters, listen up. Hunting season's here and the last thing you want is to tap out before the action starts. That's why I'm dialing in with Mountain Ops Ignite. Ignite isn't your average energy drink. It delivers smooth, long-lasting energy, no jitters, plus mental clarity that cuts through the backcountry fog. Powered by amino acids and brain blend of nootropics and

• 28:02Cameron Hanes?

  200mg of clean caffeine, Ignite keeps you sharp and pushing hard mile after mile. Whether you're glassing ridges, packing in before dawn, or heading to elk camp, one scoop in your bottle and you're locked in. It's my go-to every hunt, every hike, every long drive. And Mountain Ops isn't just about performance. They're mission-driven. Every purchase helps feed families in need through Operation Conquer Hunger. Right now, you can get 20% off your purchase. Just go to MountainOps.com and use code CAM at checkout. This season, don't settle for sluggish. Ignite the hunt.

• 28:40Cameron Hanes?

  We put so much pressure on ourselves to be successful. To be successful, you have to shoot. You have to, an arrow has to hit the animal, right? You can be successful if your arrow doesn't hit the animal. But where it hits the animal is a big deal. And in your state of mind, the decisions you make, your technique, picking a spot, using the right pin, diving your sight, a good release, feeling that trigger, keeping the pin there. Everything matters, everything. And people oftentimes get so worked up in that moment because they've been thinking about it so long, they don't remember any of that shit. All of a sudden, they shot and they're like, what happened?

• 29:25Cameron Hanes?

  I have no idea what happened. I have no idea what pin I used, what I did. So slowing down, being in control, being in control of that moment and that adrenaline is key. But it's not easy.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:43Cameron Hanes?

  It is so hard.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's not to say that all the practice and the hours of work that you put in before isn't important. Everyone makes mistakes, but the more you can do, I feel the less likely it is, or the more prepared you are.

• 29:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  You know?

• 29:57Cameron Hanes?

  You gotta do everything you can to put the odds in your favor.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:00Cameron Hanes?

  Basically.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Control the controllables.

• 30:02Cameron Hanes?

  That's right. So that's reps, you know, leading up to season. That's, as we talked about last time, I weigh all my arrows. My broadheads are brand new, razor sharp. Everything is perfect and still, still, there's no guarantees. And as I said, I've talked about a couple where I've wounded. I didn't believe the animals were gonna die. If they were gonna die, I would have been done. That's my animal and that's my tag. I'm not, I'm not continuing on and wounding multiple animals unless I believe it's a superficial wound and the arrow's, and the animal's gonna be fine. And you can trick yourself, you can convince yourself, you can say all the right things because you,

• 30:46Cameron Hanes?

  maybe you're trying to convince other people. I mean, I've been in camps where, you know, the guys come in and they're like, yeah, I, I don't think he's gonna die. And then you're like, well, where'd you hit him? A little bit back and then you get the arrow and it's like solid guts. And they had, because they want to keep hunting.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 31:06Cameron Hanes?

  They said, I think he's gonna be fine. It's like, no, he, you ran this arrow right through his fucking guts. He's gonna die. He's gonna die. What are you talking about? But they want it. They don't want to fail.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:19Cameron Hanes?

  Being done without killing an animal is failing, essentially.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 31:22Cameron Hanes?

  And so they're trying to play the game a little bit by saying, you know, I've seen guys, you know, go from the arrow, yeah, he's gonna be dead, is perfect to, oh, you know what? Actually, I don't think, I think he's gonna be okay. It's like, so what changed?

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Cameron Hanes?

  Now we have the blood on the ground. Now we have the arrow. Now we know the truth, really. And so.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  So, kind of along those lines, why do you think it's taboo to talk about wounding?

• 31:51Cameron Hanes?

  Um, people don't want to talk about their failures.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:54Cameron Hanes?

  And wounding is, that hurts, that it's, nobody wants to, you know, again, I've been in camps and when somebody wounds, everyone knows. And that does not feel good.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:07Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, that does not feel, you know, it's either, uh, cam killed, cam wounded. Two big differences.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 32:18Cameron Hanes?

  One, man, all that hard work paid off.

• 32:23Cameron Hanes?

  The other one, you let everybody down. You let your family down. You let yourself down. Your hopes and dreams are shattered. You let the camp down. If you're in a camp, if you're public land, you're out there dealing with it yourself and just like, you know, wondering, questioning, do I have what it takes to do this? Or am I not built for this?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:46Cameron Hanes?

  So, big difference.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:47Cameron Hanes?

  And sometimes it's this much different. A shoulder blade or a double lung could be this, this much difference.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Right. How do you think, I mean, talking about it helps?

• 32:59Cameron Hanes?

  Um, I just want people to know that this is, this happens, this is real. I would like people to, to adopt maybe the same mindset I have where my tag's good for one animal. If that, if I release an arrow and, and I believe the arrows, the animal's gonna die, that's it.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:19Cameron Hanes?

  If, I mean, it's, it's bow hunting and mistakes happen. Animals survive from poor shots all the time. So if that's, if that's the direction that it looks like your shot went and, and maybe that's gonna be the result. Then, okay, if it's a superficial wound, a muscle wound, these animals, they survive much worse than that all the time. They got big tines, you find them stuck in their necks all the time. I found a dead, I shot a dead bull. I didn't know, I thought he was bedded down and I got snuck into 20 yards and shot him and he didn't move. And I go up there, he's dead, a bull killed him. There's a, there's a tine right in his neck. So, um, they die from that, but oftentimes like the bull, uh, let's see, what bull was it?

• 34:06Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it was a bull I killed in Colorado this year, had big jab wounds and bruises and bloodshot on his ass. From another bull.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:15Cameron Hanes?

  So it's, it's brutal out there. These are tough. And, um, so we should be able to talk about it, but nobody wants to because it's admitting. We weren't perfect.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:29Cameron Hanes?

  And as we know on social media especially, everyone's perfect.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I kind of think too, you know, the more people talk about it, possibly the more, or the less shame people will feel. And maybe they will try and recover that animal. It's like, instead of making excuses as to why it's gonna live, it's like, no, we gotta go back out in the morning and, and look. And if they aren't so embarrassed by it, maybe they'll tell the truth of what actually happened. You know, I think some people. Like we talk about trying to skew the truth in both ways, you know?

• 34:59Cameron Hanes?

  Some of it is intentional, some of it is just subconscious.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:03Cameron Hanes?

  You don't want to fail. So you like, and I've done this before too, or I mean, I have them, but I remember you can change what happened to what you wanted to have happened. And I remember Tanner shot this buck. He was a kid, super young kid, and I think it would have been his first bow kill, but this giant buck came in and he shot and he hit it in the neck and the arrow just kind of went through the meat. And I'm like, I go, how'd that shot feel? I was filming and he's like, I smoked him dad, right behind the shoulder. And I'm like, why, why am I thinking that it hit in the neck? And I said, I don't, I mean, I was filming, so it's hard to see through that camera, but

• 35:47Cameron Hanes?

  I think you hit in the neck. He's like, no, why are you dad? Why are you saying that? It was perfect. I'm like, okay, well, let's just look at the film. We did right through the neck. That buck was on camera with a hole in his neck, like, I don't know when it was, but on a different camera. And he survived and it was, but point, the whole point to that was Tanner knew what he wanted to see. And he changed what happened to what, to that. That's not what happened. So people can, can convince themselves that it was a perfect shot, but when you get up there, that blood will tell you, the arrow will tell you. You'll, you'll figure it out if you're good. Now,

• 36:29Cameron Hanes?

  I have recovered a lot of animals on long, hard blood trails. So I'm not saying that if the animal's not 50 or a hundred yards, that he's going to survive. Cause I've, I've had to shoot animals again and got them killed. I've been on.

• 36:47Cameron Hanes?

  Like in 1994, I remember the bucks in in my garage over there. I have it shoulder mount, but he was a nice big four point. I hit him like high shoulder out of a tree stand. I don't even know how the hell I hit there. And back then I used, you know, fixed blade heads. It's all we could use here in Oregon because expandables were illegal up until like a handful of years ago. And I was like, there's no blood. And I'm like, I cannot believe I've this up up this shot, like late season black tail out of a tree stand. And, you know, a 20 yard shot may maybe

• 37:25Cameron Hanes?

  even less. But I remember it's in the pines, not a lot of brush. And basically, I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna walk until I can't walk anymore and try to figure out what happened, where this buck is. And somehow, I I was like, in this wide open field, and I on a piece of grass, brown grass, I saw a little, like a little streak of blood. And I'm like, looking at it going, is this, is this blood? And there's a trick where you can, you know, Cord Wilkins did this this year on on his bull. But middle of the day, he had his flashlight on like this,

• 38:10Cameron Hanes?

  like looking like under the trees, like on the pine needles, looking for blood. And so that in that case right there, like where I saw that blood, like a little, like you could use your phone now and kind of sometimes blood will kind of reflect and shine. And but anyway, at that time, I didn't have a phone to do that. And I was like looking at that grass. I'm like, is this fucking blood? And so then I'm like looking through the grass and I'm like, well, the grass looks like it's kind of bent and broken, like this way right here. And you can look, there's signs, there's either. You know, animals.

• 38:48Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I'll talk about elk mostly, but this, this was a deer, obviously, but animals don't kick things with their hooves usually like they're not kicking rocks and kicking sticks. So if you see a rock out of place or a stick that has been, you know, maybe it was in the mud a little bit, but moved, that's usually not normal. So hunters do that all the time, but if there's no hunters in there, something went through there. And if an animal normally, like a bull, won't be kicking that stuff, it might when it's wounded.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:20Cameron Hanes?

  And I would, so I look for all these little things kind of out of place. Like is there something out of place? Well, I remember on that, you know, this was 30 years ago or whatever, but that grass looked out of place to me or something bent over. And then I would like look and I'm like, is it, did a hoof like step here? So anyway, I was on that line. I had that, what I thought was blood on that piece of grass and I went a hundred yards up. Buck was laying there under pine tree dead. And it was, at that time is my best blacktail.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Oh damn.

• 39:49Cameron Hanes?

  And so there's been blood trails that aren't perfect, that just take, you gotta, just like life, you gotta grind some shit out sometimes.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:58Cameron Hanes?

  Sometimes it's going to be on your hands and knees with a flashlight, middle of the day, looking for any drop, a pin prick. If you haven't had blood for 50 yards, it could be any direction, right? But when you get that pin prick, you know that it's from that last blood to this blood, that's his line. Normally animals, once you get that line, they're gonna kind of stay on that line.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:22Cameron Hanes?

  So a pin prick can give you the line and, and you need a line. And like with the Onyx now, you can put your waypoints in there, your, what, put the mark on there and then you can really have a visual for like, okay, I think I know where this buck or bull's going. He's on this either.

• 40:41Cameron Hanes?

  Sometimes it's like they'll get on a level of elevation, they'll kind of stick with it.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 40:46Cameron Hanes?

  Normally they're not going up or down crazy. They'll path of least resistance if they're hurt and they'll just kind of. They want to get away from where they got hurt, first of all. And if they have strength, they'll get as far away as they can until they get sick. But a lot of times there's going to be, I mean, a bull for sure is going to leave signs of where he went.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:10Cameron Hanes?

  If you're around a lot of elk and there's a lot of elk in that country. Then those tracks are going to be, it's going to be tough to tell what tracks what. But if I'm hunting a big bull, I can tell a bull track. Just because bulls generally, their hooves aren't as sharp, they're a little heavier. So when they walk, their hooves are hitting stuff and getting worn down. Either rocks or whatever, a cow, smaller animal, the hoof, the track is going to be sharper. So if you have a big like bull track that's, that's a dull. Cause it's kind of been beat down the front of his hoof, been, you know, hitting stuff and kind of getting worn down.

• 41:55Cameron Hanes?

  You can identify, I followed a, a bull track for a long time with no blood. One time I remember it, one of the first times I ever went to that Utah hunt that I've done now for.

• 42:07Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know, 15 years, but I followed this bull for about seven miles through three different drainages. Just. And on that one, I had hit, it was like 60 yards and I hit, arrow kind of went in and I hit a little low. And it didn't get in his chest, but it cut like, or didn't get his heart. But it got in and it cut a bunch of stuff right here. So what happened is that bull did not want to step hard on his left leg because it kind of hit the back shoulder of that left leg. I could tell like, I could see his hoof print on the right was, was good. And then this, this left one was light. I'm like, that's

• 42:50Cameron Hanes?

  him. He did not want to step on that. So I'm like, following in the mud through all these lost cameramen, cameraman quits that I can't keep up. I'm like, whatever, go back. I don't care. Cause I, this is a long, long trail. And I remember one of the land boys, they were up glassing way on top of the ridge. And they called on the radio and this is, I, it's like seven miles, like I said, but it a long way. And they're like, on the radio, Cam, I got him. He's bedded down. And I snuck in there and shot him. And it, but that never would have happened if I hadn't have stayed on those tracks for hours.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Do you remember how far you were from him when they finally radioed in?

• 43:35Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, probably, let's see. Yeah. I was probably half mile.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Headed in the right direction?

• 43:40Cameron Hanes?

  Headed in the right direction. Yeah. But I didn't, there was no blood.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 43:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. But he, he was hurt because this had been, uh, this was the next day and I got in there, got him killed. And, uh, you know, it took, sometimes it takes everything. It takes, and also a little luck. And also, you know, yes, we want to make perfect shots. And I'm, I'm giving some examples of marginal shots because that's what we're talking about. That still resulted in, in it, in the animal dying or, you know, like I said, a superficial wound. Um, I've had a lot of perfect shots also. So I don't, don't, don't think that every kill is some disaster waiting to happen. But that one, that was one of the longest blood trails I've been on. And, um,

• 44:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it was, I think it was Tyson who, who saw him, but uh, yeah, got him killed. Point is sometimes, just like with hunting, you gotta dig deep. You gotta outwork everyone and it might pay off.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the other thing with that story too, is you've kept following because you could. And so it's not like, oh, this, yeah, there's no, there's no blood or, or whatever. I'm just gonna give up. It's like.

• 44:53Cameron Hanes?

  I think a lot of people would have said that.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:56Cameron Hanes?

  I think a lot, a lot of people would have said, oh, must've just grazed him. He's not bleeding. He's went so far. He'll be okay. And you can convince yourself of a lot of shit.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:09Cameron Hanes?

  And they might've believed that. And they might've pulled out and not, you know, not stayed on that bull and not got that bull. And that was a big six by six. And uh,

• 45:20Cameron Hanes?

  I got him. So, yeah, we, it's hard to know when, when to quit and when to stay on it. If you have blood, you never pull off. If you have tracks and

• 45:36Cameron Hanes?

  barely any blood, I never pull off. I'm staying on the tracks.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:40Cameron Hanes?

  For as long as I can.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:42Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you never know. And I'm ready. I got an arrow knocked.

• 45:48Cameron Hanes?

  I'm hunting all the time. I'm always ready. And I think a lot of people get down and they start dragging their feet. They start like, I screwed up. And then all of a sudden they jumped that animal and they weren't ready. And that could have been, they could've got another arrow in it. Um, so yeah, it's a, uh, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to cover. Um, just in general on, so let me talk about shots. I don't like frontal. I don't like ass Texas heart shots. I like broadside and quartering away. I like high percentage.

• 46:26Cameron Hanes?

  And still, it's challenging. But if you take high percentage shots, obviously, that high percentage means something. What does that mean? A greater chance of success, right? That's what we, that's what we talk about when we say high percentage. So broadside, leg forward if possible, because a leg back, that shoulder blade on a bull out could cover up a lot of the lungs. That leg forward, or coming in from the back rib and going up and going towards that opposite leg, that's the way to do it. Um, so, we have to be disciplined, we have to be committed, we have to be clear

• 47:07Cameron Hanes?

  thinking, we have to be poised in the moment. How do you do all that? That's just experience.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right? Nobody, nobody is born great. Okay? That takes years and time and reps. So yeah, don't, if you screwed up, it's okay. I mean, it's, it's not, I mean, it's not okay, but it happens. And it's part of the journey. And we're never, we're never just, yeah, shit, whatever. What, it's just hunting. No, it's, it's very serious. But you're not immune to screwing up.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:47Cameron Hanes?

  And if you do it long enough, I guarantee you're going to.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. What about, you know, you've talked about before, just kind of people that get hyper focused on the crease, or maybe they've been shooting foam target, you know,

• 47:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  the whole time. Talk about kind of maybe not getting so cute with your shot and, and being more realistic about the area, you know, where you need to aim.

• 48:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And, you know, I, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I've been doing this a long time. So I'll be honest, and I'll say, I've been overconfident. And I remember thinking back when I was a kid, like if I had a tree, and there was like a gap through the trees, and I could see the animal, and I would be like, I mean, I practiced shooting through trees all the time. I would be like, yeah, I can kill that animal from here. Where I could have maybe taken three steps to the side and had a wide open shot, but I'm like,

• 48:47Cameron Hanes?

  no, I like this little, little, you know, like playing horse, you know, you want to like drain the hard shot. If you have, I had too much confidence. I'm like, I'll thread the needle right here and kill the thing.

• 49:04Cameron Hanes?

  That doesn't always work. I mean, I've hit trees before doing that. Um, I don't remember wounding an animal by being cute like that, but that's just dumb. That's just dumb. Make the bestest decision for that most high percentage shot you can. I don't get, I don't care how good you are. Take those two steps to the side. Get wide open. So now I'm very like on the bull that I just killed in, in Utah. Truitt filmed it and you saw me readjust a couple of times because I'm like, no, I need this perfect. I need, because I, as I said, I've ticked brush before and hitting brush with your arrow can really fuck it up. And you're not going to hit where you, where you thought you were, and then that animal might suffer. So now,

• 49:50Cameron Hanes?

  as again, as again, over 40 some years, now I'm like, I've made every mistake. I'm not, I've, anything I'm talking about, any, any lesson I'm saying to keep in mind is because I've learned it the hard way. And I've fucked up. I have, I have, I've wanted to quit bow hunting. It hurt so bad. It hurt so bad because when it's all you care about and you screw up. Oh my God, that is, that is the worst. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's a.

• 50:26Cameron Hanes?

  It happens. Um, I want to talk a little bit about selection on, cause again, as I've done this for so long, I've used about everything. Um, and I just, I'm going to go through like, how I decide, you know, we talked about arrows last time, but I didn't really talk about broadheads specifically. And I said earlier that in Oregon, expandables were illegal for many years. So we had to use fixed and, and for a long time I, well, these were tough to beat right here. These Blitz, and I, they quit making these. These are Rocky Mountain broadheads or Rocky Mountain, what is it? Broadhead company? Or no, Rocky Mountain Premier broadheads. And, uh, these were, I bought so many of these because they were so good. I knew they were going out of

• 51:11Cameron Hanes?

  business or they sold or some fucking thing, but these Blitz were incredible. And I remember they, the blades came off on the side. So it was like, as your arrow, you know, uh, we, we have these, these veins are at an angle. So your arrow kind of has direction. There's helical on it and you want that arrow spinning. The faster it spins is slower it goes. So you don't want it spinning too fast. You don't want too much helical. But these were kind of billed as the blades came off the side. So it, in my head, the arrow would go in and then it would kind of twist and make a wound channel. And I thought that the, the blood trails with these were incredible. So we shot fixed

• 51:53Cameron Hanes?

  blade. Um, I shot these for a long time. These are Montex. Uh, this is a Montec and these indestructible because they're one piece, but

• 52:05Speaker 02

  G5, right? Is that what those are called?

• 52:07Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, Montec G5. Yeah. But these were, I don't need, this might be as sharp as it was. So it's about as sharp as this coffee cup.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  I know a guy who, he would, this is crazy. I haven't seen anyone do this, but he would sharpen them. He would take that and he would have a little leather man and he would just

• 52:26Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, no, that's

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Use the same broadhead.

• 52:29Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good idea. You know,

• 52:32Cameron Hanes?

  Here's, here's the thing. My buddy, my friend's buddy, this is how far this bow hunting thing has come. I remember a hundred years ago, before I even bow hunted, I remember I knew where these bucks were up, up Marcola. And I, I, we're at Lane Community College, me and my buddy. And I was like, hey, I said, you got a bow? He's like, uh, my dad does. And I go, oh, I don't know where these big bucks are. I said, you, do you have, you should get a, I mean, you got a tag, right? He's like, yeah, I got a bow tag. And he goes, me and my dad were gonna go out, um, but, uh, I can just take his bow. And I'm like, yeah, cool. I know. Let's go try to find a buck. So that was as serious as we were. Like, oh, your dad has a bow? Grab that.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Good to go.

• 53:13Cameron Hanes?

  Then my other buddy said, his dad said, it's better to shoot dull broadheads because they, they rip a bigger hole.

• 53:26Cameron Hanes?

  I'm just telling you how far bow hunting has come. All right?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:31Cameron Hanes?

  If you look at the pictures of Fred Bear, Chuck Adams, or whatever from back in the day, they would have 16 arrows in their quiver. Like, it was, they were, you know, arrows in the quiver, don't deliver. If you want to kill something, you gotta get an arrow in the air. So it's so much different now where you're so precise and everything matters. But that's just the evolution of bow hunting. And that's probably why the wounding rates are, you know, down, or similar to rifle now. Maybe they were way high back. I mean, you're shooting dull broadheads because it rips a bigger hole? Or you're borrowing your, obviously you're gonna wound shit, right?

• 54:11Cameron Hanes?

  So, um, but these were, the, the knock on these is they were not, uh, sharp. So then they came out with a CS. These were like the Montech CS. And these were, I can't, carbon steel, that's what it was. And they were sharper. Okay. Just as tough, a little sharper. You're like, okay, that's good. So I killed a bunch of bulls with these things. Then, so now expandables, oh, okay, let me just talk about this. If, just in general, like these, these heads right here, uh, let me think, like a, like a Montech, that's a cutting tip, right? So that's sharp there. This iron will, that's sharp. So what that means is it starts cutting right from the get-go. Whereas, uh, a head like this.

• 54:58Cameron Hanes?

  Well, even even like this one, this doesn't cut. This is expandable, but this has a cone tip. And it's not technically sharp like a blade. But that has to push through before it starts to cut. That's actually a little sharper than well. There there used to be some like, say, Thunderhead 125s had that chisel tip. And they're not sharp. So it has that chisel tip has to push in, which is taking some penetration, taking some energy. And then it gets to the blades. Right? If you have a cutting tip, now that's cutting from the get go. So as soon as that hits hide, it's cutting. The drawback with something like this, this is a two blade head with a couple little bleeders.

• 55:43Cameron Hanes?

  This is iron wool. It's a great head. It's indestructible, sharp as hell. Two blades. What does that mean? That means you're only getting a slice essentially. Where this, I think the best. And I know there's, there's men who use this and they pull a lot of weight and shoot a heavy arrow and it's fine. I want more blood than this is gonna result in. Right? Cause you got a slice instead of. This is what I use now. This is a big carnivore with 2.75 inches of of cut.

• 56:23Cameron Hanes?

  It's gonna cause a huge wound channel, a hole much bigger than this. So why would you use this? Well, because to kill with an arrow, you have to get into the vitals. If you shoot light poundage, you're, you're younger, you're, maybe you're not as strong. Maybe you're a woman, maybe whatever. And you can't shoot 80, 90 pounds. And you don't shoot a heavy arrow because you have a 25 inch draw. Cause you're maybe a woman or a young bow hunter. And your arrow weighs 400 grains, which isn't that heavy. You're gonna need something that helps penetrate. So it gets in that chest.

• 57:02Cameron Hanes?

  A broadhead like this that only has two blades and is only cutting a slice and starts cutting from the get go with the cutting tip. It's gonna penetrate. It's gonna penetrate better. Because this has to push in.

• 57:16Cameron Hanes?

  And open up all these blades, but if you have the power to do that, which you know, I 90 pound bow, this is a 400 and I think it's 80, 80, 84 or 81 grain arrow. At that, you know, with that energy that I shoot, that's going to push in. And you look at this has blood all the way up to this killed something. I, I don't, I mean, it's got blood all the way up here. So I got penetration on that and I cut a huge hole. That's high poundage. It's a heavy arrow. If you don't have that, this is the way to go. This iron will is going to penetrate if you hit it. I mean, if you hit it in the shoulder blade, it's not going to.

• 57:58Cameron Hanes?

  If you hit it, you know, there's some hard things. It's not going to penetrate. But if you get ribs in between the ribs, uh, behind the shoulder there, even at say 50 pounds, this is going to get in there and can kill the bull. Yep. This has killed a lot of bulls and there's guys who shoot heavy poundage that for whatever reason, are concerned about penetration or like the durability of this, they're going to use this. That's, it's not my choice, but I respect. You want, you want, you believe in what you use? Great. Yep. That's all that matters. I, um, it took me, took some convincing because I was like fixed blade forever.

• 58:40Cameron Hanes?

  And like, when I looked at, when I look at a fixed blade, I was like, okay, that's good three blade head. These were a little noisy when they flew because it's, uh, the cutouts there. So I remember they, you could hear that, that arrow flying towards a target. And I was like, that animal's hearing that arrow and their reaction times are so fast with the speed of sound. Speed of sound is so 1100 feet a second, whereas your bow, like I said, might be 300. So the, the speed of sound of the arrow getting there is three times that of your arrow. And the animal's going to react if they can hear that coming. That's why I shoot like the, the quieter, lower profile veins. And, uh, this head does not cut wind like this does.

• 59:22Cameron Hanes?

  And anything, anytime you're cutting wind, that's what's making noise. Um, now these, the, this head here, another, you're not going to, that's, that's as indestructible as it comes because this is very thick right here. This is gonna be harder to get tuned. It's just all there is to it. That's gonna be able to plane unless your bow, unless you're shooting like a super heavy arrow, maybe lighter poundage, or your bow is just so tuned perfect and your form is perfect. If this flies, great. It's just tougher to get to fly perfect. And there's no knock on these heads. These, these heads are all,

• 1:00:01Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I shoot all these because I like knowing how my bow performs. When, I mean, a head like this is more critical. That's all there is to it. That's a lot of metal out there to get flying straight. It's gonna be more critical. I like to practice with this or with these because I can see if I'm screwing up or my bow's out of tune or whatever. I'm not gonna hunt with it, but people do and that's, that's great. I mean, I, I'm, I want people to make a living in archery and I want, I want people to have like, uh, choices on, on what they select. Uh, you know, a, a four blade, I don't know what this is. I don't think that's replaceable, but a four blade fixed head there.

• 1:00:44Cameron Hanes?

  We got a two blade here. We got one of these little, uh, I think that's a slick trick maybe, but that, that looks pretty good. It's, it's a little small for my liking. That looks tiny. I want a big wound, especially because I'm hunting big animals. Um, but yeah, all these, all these will work. All these will kill. It's this, the T2, T2, this is from G5. This has killed a lot of animals too. So it's, it's what you decide. I think like the, the key is what matches up your equipment and your ability and your, maybe, uh, the poundage you shoot, how your bow's set up, what matches that toward, you're putting the most things in your favor to be successful.

• 1:01:29Cameron Hanes?

  Light poundage, I think an iron will head is good. Heavier poundage, I want a big wound channel. And, and Wayne talked me into shooting this. I was like a fixed blade guy, like I said, forever, just because they weren't legal in Oregon. And about, I don't know, five years ago, I think, I was gonna go to Idaho to do a deer hunt. I killed a, I don't know, I don't know where that buck is, but it's around here somewhere. But a big, big wide four point. It might be, I think it's that buck. No, no, that's Colorado. Anyway, um, So I was gonna go kill a buck and Wayne said, you need to try these carn fours. He showed me like he'd kill some big black tail up in the snow with like, I think the carn of

• 1:02:11Cameron Hanes?

  three or the three blade. These are grim reapers. And so I said, all right, I'll try it. And I shot this buck and I hit a little bit high and a little back of shooting straight down in the wind like at 36 yards. And I was like, I shot and I hit him like, oh God, that was nuts. A little high and back. Then the buck runs out there 80 yards and tips over. And I was like, whoa, that was different. And that's pretty cool. Cause I think if I would have hit it with this, I think it would have went quite a ways. Probably, probably would have got it. It would have been hard.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Cameron Hanes?

  But uh.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember in Utah last year, the, the wound on the bull you shot was, I mean, I think you posted a picture of it. Or maybe Adam did, but yeah, it was ridiculous.

• 1:02:57Cameron Hanes?

  It was devastating. So when you have almost three inches of a hole in an animal in the chest, it's not going to go far. So it's a, I've killed like a lot of bulls with this setup right here over the years. And any failures I've had were just failures on me. It's not on the equipment. I, I've never, a blades never broke off. A blades never, I mean, not opened. It's, they've performed. So that's just what I use. But people use a lot of different things and.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a buddy who used a broadhead like that, just kind of the flat.

• 1:03:35Cameron Hanes?

  This one?

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  And he was so anal, he built his own arrows, but he was so anal about it. He would make sure that every arrow, the insert, when it was fully twisted down was in line the same way every time.

• 1:03:47Cameron Hanes?

  I love that.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Cameron Hanes?

  I love, that's what it takes.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, well, that's not what it takes, but that's okay.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  It's a controllable.

• 1:03:56Cameron Hanes?

  It's a controllable. And if you think about everything and can try to control everything, yeah, I mean, it's going to pay off.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:04:03Cameron Hanes?

  It's going to pay off eventually. It might be maybe one out of 20 years, but that one year, if you fail one year, that hurts, dude. That hurts for a long time. So I liked, I like that people get, get so intense and like.

• 1:04:24Cameron Hanes?

  What is it? Just invested. Yeah, invested in what they use. I love it. Everybody's passionate about this shit. And we should be because this is life and death for the animal. And so it matters. It's a big deal.

• 1:04:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I just, what I don't like, I don't like people who, I don't, I guess I don't expect everybody to take it as serious as me or like your buddy that you mentioned. But I think the bottom end, we can take it a little more serious. I don't want it, I don't want it to be like when we were growing up. It's like, hey, does your dad have a bow? That's, to me, that's unacceptable. We were idiots. And it's like, I learned, I'm talking about it. I don't want people to be like that. I don't, I'm embarrassed I was like that. But I'm not anymore. And, you know, I haven't been for decades, but I understand that when you're just getting into

• 1:05:17Cameron Hanes?

  it, you might not understand the nuance and how all this matters and plays in. And you might not understand how bad it hurts to work your ass off and dream about something and then blow it and think that the animal's out there suffering. It's, there's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of angst and pain and second guessing. And it's, it's miserable. You're on the mountain by yourself, questioning everything, your life, life choices. I don't want people to do that. So I'm not saying that if you think about all this shit, you're immune to that because you're not. Because I've, I've still been, you know, humbled. And oh, that's what I'm gonna say.

• 1:06:00Cameron Hanes?

  I don't, I don't care who you are. Bow hunting is gonna humble your ass eventually.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Cameron Hanes?

  There, it is so hard. And, and the line of success and failure is so razor thin. You were gonna be humbled and it's gonna hurt. But you can count on it. I guarantee you. And if, you know, you have the constitution to get through it, to survive it, to learn from it, and to come out on the other side and find success.

• 1:06:38Cameron Hanes?

  Your life, you're going to be a different man.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:40Cameron Hanes?

  You're going to be, you're going to be different. You're going to grow. You're gonna, you're going to evolve. You're going to change and bow hunting can do that. And I just want people to take it very serious and to think about this. And yeah, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying every choice I've made on this gear and equipment is perfect, but I just, I think about it a lot. And yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's, I don't know. I think people find that hopefully something they can kind of align with or relate to, you know, talking about all of that wounding and also, you know, controlling the controllables, giving your best, trying to find the animal, not giving up on it. And, you know, mistakes happen, but you have to do your best.

• 1:07:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the discussion I wanted to have.

• 1:07:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's probably not a popular one, or probably not one I've, I've ever really heard discussed. I don't think on a podcast, but I think it's important to, to talk about.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Cameron Hanes?

  That's that.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:07:47Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Keep hammering, guys. Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat or loading up for a long range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time. That's why I use Grizzly coolers. These things are bear proof, rugged as hell, and keep ice locked in for days, literally. I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on. Whether you're running deep in the back country or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Right now, you can get

• 1:08:26Cameron Hanes?

  20% off at grizzlycoolers.com with the code KEEPHAMMERING. And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering. One word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly.

• 1:08:45Cameron Hanes?

  When you're miles from the truck and breaking down a big bull, you can't afford a knife that won't hold up. That's why I built my own signature blade with Montana Knife Company. They keep hammering Pack Out. It's lightweight, razor sharp, and built in the USA to handle everything from caping to quartering. This is my go-to backcountry knife. Tough, reliable, and made for hunters who push hard. Here's the deal. The last time we released a Pack Out, it sold out in under 24 hours. Gone. You need to be ready the second they go live at montanaknifecompany.com because they won't last. And if you can't wait until then, Montana Knife Company gives listeners of this podcast 10% off any knife right now. Just use code CAM at checkout.

• 1:09:30Cameron Hanes?

  They keep hammering Pack Out, my signature blade, built for the backcountry. Get yours October 1st before they're gone.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Someone to blame, they sent their hate. It fuels my pace. I am Roy Tough. I am the change, the fuel in dirt. Feeling like Cam hates. Oh, give me the mods, nobody wants. I'll give you my heart, I'll carry the work. Give me that impossible task. I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt. I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question I earned that I just died that I endured. Give me them odds, nobody wants. I'll give you my heart, I'll carry the work. Give me that impossible task. I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt. I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question I earned that I just died that I endured.