KHC 151 - Ultra Risks

So, you want to run an ultra marathon? Cam Hanes delves into the extreme risks of ultra-marathon running. From debilitating injuries and relentless vomiting to dizziness, hallucinations, and the rare but real threat of death. Cam shares raw insights into the physical and mental toll of pushing the human body to its limits in these grueling races and what you can do to work your way into running a race like this … if you even should. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 50K Races (31.07 Miles) 00:07:45 100 Mile Race: The Holy Grail 00:18:40 “Mountain Legs” 00:27:53 The Reality of a Marathon: Running for the Wrong Reasons 00:32:27 There Are Consequences 00:34:22 Twin Cities Marathon & Cam’s Goals for Courtney Dauwalter 00:35:29 Upcoming Podcasts Guests 00:36:44 2025 Holiday Giveaways & Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cameron Hanes?

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• 0:43Cameron Hanes?

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• 1:28Cameron Hanes?

  Right now, you can get 20% off your purchase. Just go to mountainops.com and use code CAM at checkout. This season, don't settle for sluggish. Ignite the hunt. Hunter-milers are not without risk. They said, "What could happen?" They said, "Well, she could die on the trail." They want to overcome. They want to be in the depths and push through to see what they have, what it takes to finish. I get that. I was that too. But there's a lot that goes into getting to that finish line. It can be dangerous.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  I think people get hung up on like the mental toughness thing. There is a very serious wall.

• 2:02Cameron Hanes?

  Can you be too tough? Can you push too hard? And is somebody gonna die? How do you know though? What I say, and this is what I've told Rodney.

• 2:25Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Well, this is a Keep Hammering Collective. We did a couple bonus podcasts today. We did one on wounding and this one is on, what is this on? Like ultra-running health risks? Or ultra-running concerns? Yeah, concerns. Concerns?

• 2:44Cameron Hanes?

  Risks and concerns. Yeah, it's a, you know, I just want to talk about it just because I, ultra-running is very popular right now. Um, you know, there's no limit really on, on what people want to try and do. And it just makes me a little nervous. Like we were talking about our, our friend here, Rodney Williams, um, his in-laws live right a couple of houses down from me. So I see him all the time. I saw him on Piscatain with his wife and kids and I was worried about him and at Mammoth. And that was a 200 mile race that just happened. And, uh, it's, uh, yeah, it's, I just want to

• 3:23Cameron Hanes?

  talk about like the ultra-running scene right now, how it's growing and, uh, the risk associated with these big multi-day, high-altitude races. And, uh,

• 3:38Cameron Hanes?

  I understand that we do the films, the films look great. Everybody loves, uh, you know, they want the hero's arc. They want to finish, come across that finish line. They want to overcome. They want to, you know, be in the depths and, and push through to see what the, if they have what it takes to finish. I get that. I was, I was that too. Um, but there's a lot that goes into getting to that finish line and it's, uh, it can be dangerous. Yep.

• 4:10Cameron Hanes?

  You know, we talked about Rodney and I, and I talked to him tonight and he's, I don't know, what, what are we, a few weeks out from Mammoth? Yep. Three weeks or maybe a month? Uh, three. Three? It'll be three this weekend. Yeah. Okay. Or today, I guess. Yeah. So he's, you know, he was fine. He's over there with his kids and, and wife, like I said, but still not all the way back. And I know Taylor has talked about, like, I think he did the Monster 300. He got second overall. He's really trying to, to reel in Pete to win that thing. But I think six months and he's still, still not back.

• 4:48Cameron Hanes?

  This shit is not good for you. These multi-day races are not good for you.

• 4:55Cameron Hanes?

  A 50K, when everybody starts at the 50K, it's 31, 32 miles. Hard, very hard, but not too many health concerns. You're out there, if you're fast, four hours. If you're slow, or not slow, if you're, you know, it's just newer, seven hours. Right? I mean, I don't know.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Slow. Seven hours. That was my first one.

• 5:21Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. So, but tell me about it.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, and I know I've said this, I actually made a comment the other day. I'm getting hate for, but I personally don't think 50K should count as an ultra marathon. It's, it's a marathon and you took a wrong turn, you know?

• 5:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, the difference is there are some tough 50Ks in the mountains. Like, like this one, the first one I did was called the McDonald Forest. It's up there out of Corvallis. And it's like 7,000 feet of gain in 30 miles.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  That's rough.

• 5:57Cameron Hanes?

  That took me a little while and I was like, what the are these people doing? That was the hardest thing I'd ever done at that time, right? And I'd done a marathon and that took me three hours or just under three. Or no, my first marathon was,

• 6:13Cameron Hanes?

  I think it was three hours, one second. So it's just so stupid. But point is, is five more miles, you said a wrong turn, took me double. So felt like more than just a wrong turn.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not, I mean.

• 6:27Cameron Hanes?

  But it's, if you're doing a flat 50K, yeah, it's five more miles. It's not that much different.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:34Cameron Hanes?

  Right? But I, I get what you're saying. Point is, for most people.

• 6:41Cameron Hanes?

  That are never even going to do a marathon and ultra is going to be a huge test.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, where you kind of talked about wanting the heroic suffering. It's like, if you want that and you don't run, go do a 50K.

• 6:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Cause you know, you're not going to die, but I promise you it's going to hurt.

• 6:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it's gonna be terrible.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:59Cameron Hanes?

  So, I mean, I, I don't know. I've, I've seen, there's some studs I remember that I, that I worked with over at Springfield Utility Board runners and they did the frozen trail. You did frozen trail, right?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:13Cameron Hanes?

  That was your second one?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  First.

• 7:15Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, first one?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:16Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. And did, and dropped it 20 miles, 22 or something like that. So it's, it's, and this is, these are like a tough guy, the guy I'm thinking of. So it's like, it's still not, not just, hey, I'm checking this box.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:35Cameron Hanes?

  Those last couple of hours, I mean, okay, Truitt, he did frozen trail this year. Thought he was just going to go raw dog it, not take in a bottle or anything. It's four laps, basically four summits is, is a frozen trail.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:52Cameron Hanes?

  On the third one, he was locked up and he called me, he said, Dad, I need some salt. I can't, I can't move. So I got over there and he like could not move. And he's like in really good shape.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:03Cameron Hanes?

  At that time he wasn't in, I think, did Rodney be, won that one, didn't he?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Ee.

• 8:09Cameron Hanes?

  Did Rodney win that year?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  I think he might have.

• 8:12Cameron Hanes?

  Or maybe, or maybe he won, maybe it was last year he won. But anyway, so Rodney was who we talking about doing the, the mammoth. But point is Truitt was locked up on that last one and that was just a 50K. So they, they can be tough. But in general, where you get into like the, I think the real physical challenge, you know, I'm not, I can't lump everybody into the same, into the same.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, my problem with a 50K is I think you can do it with no training.

• 8:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  You can go get it done. I know because I have.

• 8:47Cameron Hanes?

  If you have a long, if you have, you know, but here's the thing, like, because we were talking about this when, when you shut the bed in Wenahaw, we're like, you are above average.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:57Cameron Hanes?

  You, you've done ultras.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:59Cameron Hanes?

  You've filmed me for an entire year in the mountains.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:02Cameron Hanes?

  You've trained, you lift, you train and still.

• 9:07Cameron Hanes?

  It was hard. Yeah. So you you're above average and it's hard. It's a, yeah, so, I mean, theoretically, could you do with no training? Yeah, it's gonna suck. It's gonna really suck. But you could make 30 miles. Yeah, for sure you can. I think you just gotta, you'll just, yeah, you gotta tough it out. So then you get to the 100. Like, we did Leadville this year, and 100 mile distance, it used to be like, we'd say, oh, it wasn't really an ultra, just joking, this isn't like giving any credence to this statement. But we say, ah, it doesn't really count unless it's 100, right? It's not really an ultra. That wasn't true, because I did a lot of ultras that I still can count. But that 100, as I said on the shit talkers, was the holy grail.

• 9:51Cameron Hanes?

  And to get 100 miler done at that time was one of the hardest things you could ever do in life, you know? But that, that has changed. Now, 100 milers, one night, generally, you want to try to get it done in 24 hours. And, you know, Western States made this famous on their belt buckle, it says, 100 miles one day. And it has a lion, mountain lion on it. And that is like an Olympic gold medal to ultra runner. 100 miles in one day. So to get that, you have to finish in under 24 hours. If you can do 100 miles in under 24 hours, that's a legit effort. Yeah. Right? So that was always the goal. Not too many people are going to the hospital after 100. But it happens.

• 10:35Cameron Hanes?

  I remember at Western, there was a stud from right here. He beat me at, at Shotgun one year. We ran hard. And I got second, he won. But he ran Western, and I think was in the top 10, and dropped at 93 from heat, and was in the hospital for five days, and I think having seizures. So 100 milers are not without risk. Yeah. Now, much different and much lower risks, I think, than the multi-day races. The multi-day races that, if you go to David Goggins' page, he just did Moab 240, it's a 240 mile race.

• 11:19Cameron Hanes?

  He's about as tough as they come. When he was getting towards the 200 mile mark, or little past 200, they thought...

• 11:30Cameron Hanes?

  He was gonna have to drop. They thought there was too much of a health risk. He was had all sorts, all sorts of shit going wrong. This is David Goggins. Rodney was held up at 207 with low oxygen. The blood oxygen level in his brain was down around 55 and Goggins was down. I think they said 73. Well, I remember when Courtney did going for the Colorado Trail record when I ran with her for 26 hours. And she was really struggling at that time and had something going on, but her oxygen level in her brain was 85. And the doctor at that time said that, you know, I think the question was, hey,

• 12:15Cameron Hanes?

  could she get rehydrated and get back out there? And he's like, well,

• 12:21Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, they said, what, what could happen? They said, or he said, well, she could die on the trail. That was at 85. So

• 12:30Cameron Hanes?

  these are the, some of the toughest people in the world.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:34Cameron Hanes?

  And there is real risk with multi-day, high elevation, pushing your body, pushing your nutrition, getting dried out.

• 12:46Cameron Hanes?

  All that being exhausted. Weird decision making. I think, you know, David was disoriented, stumbling around. Again, David Goggins. This isn't a guy from down the street. This is.

• 13:04Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I think people have said the toughest motherfucker to ever walk the earth.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  I think, I think people get hung up on like the mental toughness thing, you know, mind over body. And it's like, yeah, that is true, but there is a very serious wall that you get to. And David's a great example because he is the poster child for, for mind over body.

• 13:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  It's like, there is a wall where it's like, your body will shut down.

• 13:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Granted, I don't think most people get anywhere close to it.

• 13:33Cameron Hanes?

  Fuck no. No, they don't. I'm just worried that just like Rodney, as I said last time, he's very tough.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:41Cameron Hanes?

  Can you be too tough? Can you push too hard? And is somebody gonna die? I mean, I know we, you know, that that woman died at Hard Rock this year. I think that was a heart thing. And she was 60. She'd done a lot of ultras and it's terrible tragedy. Was that more age related? Because I think it was because that's that's, you know, shorter races, 100 and whatever. But that was early in the race, too. So it makes me feel like it wasn't like one of these being exhausted and just all these things adding up.

• 14:17Cameron Hanes?

  But is is somebody like, and I told Rodney today, and I think you said on his post that he put that he the race took more out of him than he got. And he verified that today. I talked to him. I said, Yeah, dude, I was I was worried about you. And I said, We talked about you on the podcast. And his wife said, Yeah, I heard that. And I'm glad you did. And it's just, I know, everybody wants that glory. And I know it's a huge and it could it could change your life. You know, I said that even on my Cogadona film is, we got all these people that are being critical of, yeah, it's stupid to do that. You're hurt. You had your broken foot. You this and that you're old, whatever. You say all this shit about me. And that's you're you're right. But

• 15:00Cameron Hanes?

  as I said at the end of that film is, yeah, but I did it. And my whole world has changed. And you're still on the couch. So I'm kind of like almost celebrating that. Yeah, we doesn't matter what happened. We're gonna get it done. That worked out for me that time. There's gonna be a time where it doesn't work out for somebody or for me. And maybe maybe we are too tough for our own good. So what's the answer? What like I what I told Rodney tonight is, you know, I talked about this last time, it took me years before I did my first 100. It took me, you know, four years from 2005 to 2009, and I finally did 100. I did Big Horn, and I finished in 29 hours. And

• 15:43Cameron Hanes?

  it was miserable. And I was dehydrated. And I was down to 153 pounds. It just so dried out. I just couldn't even function. But I got the finish. Then the next year, I came back to West, right? I ran Western, and I finished in 22 hours. So a seven hour improvement. And it's still very hard. But I was doing way better. Well, my first 200 was 2016. So now I'd been running ultras for 11 years from 2005 to 2016. And I got eighth at Bigfoot, was leading for a long, lot of it blew up.

• 16:24Cameron Hanes?

  Point is 11 years of running the mountains after a lifetime of already running other shorter races and stuff. But 11 years before I did a 200. So do, am I saying that everybody should have to grind it out for 11 years? No, I'm not. I'm just saying it takes a long time. If you're young, if you're in your twenties, for your body to adapt to the mountains to take on a 200 multi-day, 200 mile multi-day race.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I also think too is people get worried of like, okay, well, I'm, you know, late twenties, I'm going to be 30, like I'm going to lose my athletic prime. But with these ultras, you get better as you get a little bit older because you're tougher.

• 17:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you, I think you're your best in like probably your 40s. I mean, yeah, there's some younger freaks out there, like Dan Green. Well, Killian's a little older now, but Dan Green, I think he's young and he won Cogadona.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  I was talking about Korth.

• 17:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, Killian Korth, yeah. How old is he? He's young.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's really young.

• 17:27Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. So yeah, there are some outliers.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:31Cameron Hanes?

  And, but let's not focus on the outliers because not everybody's Courtney, not everybody's Killian, not everybody's Dan Green or Rachel Interkin, who's, you know, you look at these people like Rachel, she came across, what, she won mammoth, right? Or Moab.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Moab.

• 17:49Cameron Hanes?

  Was it Moab?

• 17:50Speaker 01

  No, mammoth.

• 17:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mammoth.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Mammoth.

• 17:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. She won mammoth. And you see her come through and you'd be like, wow, this can't be that hard. Look at this, look at this girl. She just crushed it. And I think like even Rodney said, she had finished, had slept and was making pancakes at the aid station when he was still like had a long way to go. So when you see like somebody like that, you're like, well, how hard could it be?

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:20Cameron Hanes?

  Really hard. She's just a freak.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:23Cameron Hanes?

  Don't compare yourself to, to Rachel, Courtney, any of these guys, right? Cause chances are you're not them. Yeah. You might be at some point, but not right now for most people.

• 18:36Cameron Hanes?

  How do you know though? Yeah. What, what I say, and this is what I've told Rodney. I mentioned it, it's like, cause I asked him tonight, I said, have you ever, have you ever like done good at a hundred? Have you crushed a hundred? He goes, no, no. I said, okay. I think that's a good, most people, they do their hundred. They kind of like me at Bigfoot, just survive it. It's just like, you don't know if you're going to finish or not. You're just trying to survive this shit. But you do. Was you just surviving it, getting eighth place? No, no, that was Bigfoot. But, but Bigfoot, or not Bigfoot. Big Horn.

• 19:20Cameron Hanes?

  Big Horn was just surviving 29 hours, right? But then I came back and I kind of raced Western 22 hours. So I think surviving a hundred does not put you in a good position to do a 200. No. It's, it tells me you're not ready. Yep. And I, who am I to say you're not ready? I'm not going to tell Rodney. I don't know if you, maybe I would, cause I, I like him, I care about him. But maybe I would say, I don't know about a 200 right now. But also we're men. Right. I don't like people telling me what to do. It's like, oh yeah, cool. Why don't you keep it to yourself? I didn't ask you. Yeah. And that's fine.

• 20:02Cameron Hanes?

  And that's if, if I would have said that, he would have said that to me, I'd be like, yeah, cool. Yeah. That's, that's your right. I think you should be able to race a hundred before you do 200. And if you can't, you need more time. Yep. You need, so there's something, and there's something, when I see somebody with mountain legs, I'm like,

• 20:29Cameron Hanes?

  Person's been in the mountains a lot. If I see somebody and they don't have mountain legs, I'm like,

• 20:37Cameron Hanes?

  we ready for this? Cause you can tell. Yeah. Oh, for sure. You can tell. And to get your legs in mountain, like what I'm thinking like, I remember, okay, here's a good example. I had Truitt and Tanner run the Coburg half marathon when they were two years old, probably. But I remember this guy, oh, it was actually the guy who went in was, I think he was in the hospital after Western. Oh. I think it was Dan Olmstead. I'm pretty sure. But anyway, I think he won the Coburg half, or maybe it was a full, but we did the half, something like that. But I remember he, he went up to get his award and we were there, like the park in Coburg.

• 21:19Cameron Hanes?

  And I remember he went up to get his award and his legs were solid veins. I mean, fucking veins everywhere. And I was just like looking at this guy going, holy shit. What the is that guy? That's like horse legs. Yeah. Well, that's what it takes. And

• 21:42Cameron Hanes?

  that takes years. Yeah. It takes years. So I'm just saying, if I can see legs or whatever, and you know, I don't know, there's, there's people who are really good or probably just skinny and or look skinny, don't look like freaks. But for the most part, I can usually tell somebody who's been in the mountains a lot.

• 22:03Cameron Hanes?

  And I think that's just a sign, but it's also your body adapts, right? Your body adapts to elevation. I think a big hurdle we have to overcome here is we live at 400 feet. Right. We're running Leadville and I don't know what it got up to 13,000. Yeah. Lot different.

• 22:25Cameron Hanes?

  Luckily, that was only 100. If I'm going from here at 400 feet elevation and I'm running a multi-day race at 10,000 to 13,000, it's gonna be a big test. It's a big deal. But I go to the mountains quite a bit. I've been to Leadville plenty of times to run with Courtney. I do Diamond Peak here, which only gets up to 85, but it's real mountains.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:49Cameron Hanes?

  And there's this, you have to expose yourself to this high altitude, pushing when you're exhausted, the big miles, big miles on dead legs, hydrating right, fueling right, salt right. Everything has to be right. Your mind has to be right. And if, and to get that to that position, for most people, I'm not putting everybody in the same box. Most people, it might take a decade.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  I think that's super fair. I mean, look at Cocalona. It's like, that was a stacked field and a third of the people ended up in the hospital.

• 23:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  That's what that nurse said.

• 23:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  So to me, it seems a little bit arrogant to be like, especially if you're kind of newer, to be like, it's not going to be me.

• 23:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. 30 people had to go to ER from Cocalona out of 300.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Was it just 10%? I thought he said 30%.

• 23:54Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, 30. Well, no. Yeah. Well, shit. Now, anyway, whatever it was, a lot of people. Whatever it was, it was a lot of people. And these are, this is a stacked field, as you said. This isn't just like, this isn't the Turkey Trot, the 5K we talked about. This is the best of the best. And it was taking them out.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  I mean, Max Joliffe ended up in the hospital, you know?

• 24:20Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I don't think Jesse Haynes did, but he dropped and he had won my lab the year before Max did. Courtney, of course.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Michael.

• 24:32Cameron Hanes?

  Not McKnight.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:33Cameron Hanes?

  No, he didn't do it.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  The guy that's from there.

• 24:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, oh, uh, Verstige.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, he dropped.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:40Cameron Hanes?

  And he's, he won it. He won coconut in the first year.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:43Cameron Hanes?

  So this isn't just like people that aren't ready.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:46Cameron Hanes?

  No, they were as ready as anybody on the planet gets.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Professional.

• 24:50Cameron Hanes?

  Professional runners.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  They do.

• 24:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And DNF'd.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:55Cameron Hanes?

  So who are you to think you can just show up, right? And I'm not, I'm not talking, Roddy, this isn't you. I'm your, I'm, we're on the same team.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:06Cameron Hanes?

  Love Roddy. So this, I'm just talking in general. When I say you, that's, that could be me.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Who do I think?

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Royal you.

• 25:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah. It's a, and it's just like, I just, I know. I mean, I know what the draw and the allure is, and I get it. And I'm, I'm on your side. I'm there. I'm just worried. I don't, and I talked about, I talked about the bow hunters who got struck by lightning and died in the back country in Colorado. And all they wanted to do is be a badass bow hunter that killed a bull.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:39Cameron Hanes?

  I know people just want to be a 200 mile guy. They want to come across that line. They want to get the accolades of, oh my God, you ran 240, 50, whatever miles. You're amazing. People want that feedback.

• 25:55Cameron Hanes?

  But we gotta, we gotta be careful.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:57Cameron Hanes?

  We gotta think about this. What's at stake? You know? There's a lot at stake.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, tons. And, and for what, really? You know, I, I think a majority of the people are not going to be fighting for top 10.

• 26:10Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  You know, so.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Not to.

• 26:14Cameron Hanes?

  It could change your life, you know, because it can give you confidence that you can overcome anything if you can do that. I get, I get it.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Just build up a little bit.

• 26:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  I'm not telling you don't.

• 26:26Cameron Hanes?

  No, no. It's a, I just get so, I just get so worried and it, and it's like, and it's not people, because I'm talking about people who maybe quite aren't ready, but it takes out Goggins and Courtney. It takes out the best of the fucking best, too.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, and I think too, right now with social media is it's a big thing. Fitness obviously is becoming super popular, but.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Like you said, the ultra thing is really growing and some people are like this. Unfortunately, I think this is, you know, you're not doing it for the right reasons, but if I do this, I will get followers.

• 27:02Cameron Hanes?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  And, you know, I, I, I know it is because I've seen people that like that is their whole shtick is they're going from not being a runner to doing these really hard ultras. Not to talk shit about this guy, he seems really nice, but there's a guy who is not a runner who started and his whole thing is from Couch to Cogodona. That is what he had named it.

• 27:23Cameron Hanes?

  I don't see that being

• 27:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:25Cameron Hanes?

  Successful.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:27Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, unless, he's talking about this year coming up?

• 27:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. I thought at first it was like in a year.

• 27:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  That's not gonna happen.

• 27:34Cameron Hanes?

  I hope not. Ketone IQ is now backed by research from KU Louven and Team Visma. Ketone IQ is showing powerful results in helping your body bounce back quicker and push harder, especially in tough, low oxygen conditions. Here's what the science says. Number one, ketone support EPO production. Yes, you heard that right. EPO, that's a hormone that boosts red blood cell count and helps deliver more oxygen to your muscles. Two, they improve blood flow and vasodilation, getting oxygen and nutrients where you need them faster. Three, and also they enhance brain oxygenation for better endurance, sharper focus and quicker recovery. For better endurance, sharper focus and quicker recovery.

• 28:18Cameron Hanes?

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• 28:58Cameron Hanes?

  I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on. Whether you're running deep in the back country or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Right now, you can get 20% off at grizzlycoolers.com with the code KEEPHAMMERING. And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering. One word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. This is why I want to talk about it. I don't think people really understand what it is. Yeah.

• 29:40Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's a long way, but I don't, do you understand like Cocalona is 10 marathons?

• 29:49Cameron Hanes?

  Go run one. Run one. Let me know how you feel. Tell me you're gonna go run nine more. In the mountains. Yeah. In the rain, in the heat. It's.

• 30:00Cameron Hanes?

  Sometimes alone at dark. Oh, a lot of times. Yeah. A lot of times it's, it's, so I just don't, I just don't think people, and maybe part of it is our fault. Maybe it's like, I feel like we do a good job capturing, but even the Cocalona film, what was it, 30 minutes? Right. I was out there 84 hours. So there's a lot that wasn't captured on film that wasn't great. And I wasn't feeling good and it's, it was dicey. So don't, you can't judge it on these films. Cause even it, Leadville seemed like, I don't even, we were barely kind of tired. Maybe like, one time I said, oh, that hurts, or I need something to drink. But it's a, how long was that? 18 minutes? 13 minutes? Or no? Oh, it was 18. 18?

• 30:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. So you're just getting, and I've, even with hunting, we do this too. It's like you go on a 10 day hunt. When it was on the outdoor channel, it was 22 minutes. And I, I was kind of a pet peeve of mine when people say, when they'd say, oh, you're hunting for the wrong reasons. I'm like, who the are you? Yeah. You don't make the rules on why people can hunt. So it reminded me that when you said that they're running for the wrong reasons. But if they are, and you bring it up, think about it. If you're not, ignore what James said. Him, he's an idiot. He doesn't know what you're talking about. But. If only you know.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:26Cameron Hanes?

  You're listening to this, you know, if you're doing it because you want attention.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:32Cameron Hanes?

  If that's you, if you're listening, we don't know that, but you know that, think about it.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:38Cameron Hanes?

  Just that's all. That's all. That's the only reason why I'm talking about, just think about it. If you're a hundred percent, this is what I was born to do. Great. Then get a hundred percent ready. If you're having any reservations, I'd just give it a little bit.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Hey, guys, you can go do that hundred miler.

• 31:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Or the 50 miler.

• 31:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  You know, I don't know. And to be fair, like at Cocodona at the start, the energy, I was ready to go run through a brick wall. It's like, I want to do this.

• 32:07Cameron Hanes?

  Everybody.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  You know, I even thought that I was like, this would be cool to do. And then slow, just go to one, try and stay awake. It's like, you're gonna be tired and then you'll be like, maybe this isn't for me.

• 32:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's a, there's a big difference between staying awake, like, let's stay up all night, up all night, let's stay up all night. When you're a little fucking dirty kid, you know, with BO and when you're 50, in the middle of the night out there, you can't lift your legs because you're fucking exhausted or you're, or whatever. So it's fine. It's, it's, it's all good. I mean, we're not, we're not the, the council. We don't make decisions on who can do this and who can do that. Just want to be honest about very risky. You're pushing your body past where your body should probably be pushed.

• 33:02Cameron Hanes?

  And I, I just, I want it to work.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:05Cameron Hanes?

  I want it to work out. I don't, I, I didn't like worrying about Rodney and thinking, what the would happen if something happened to him?

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it gets scary. You're tracking them and you see that they're, you know, at an aid station for a long while. And it's like, well, I remember with Max at Coca Dona, it was like, he's been there for a while. And the next time I updated it, he's at the hospital.

• 33:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. Well, you look at their pace.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:30Cameron Hanes?

  And normally you want to be three, four miles an hour, even later in the race, you know, you're, even if you're walking, it's like a 3.1. You can see the pace on these live trackers, right? When they're down at one mile an hour, it's not good.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:46Cameron Hanes?

  And that happens.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that does.

• 33:48Cameron Hanes?

  That happens. And those, those miles aren't clicking by very fast.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  That's kind of the other thing, too, is like, it's not a video game. When you DNF, or you get to an aid station and they pull you, the pain doesn't just go away.

• 33:59Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  It's not, oh, the race is over. I'm fine again. No, you then have to deal with the consequences of what you just put your body through.

• 34:05Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  So, I don't know. I think a lot of people are like, oh, I'll just fail. It's okay.

• 34:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it might, it might be okay, might not.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, I don't know. I don't know. It's, I love seeing the sport grow. I love seeing, you know, and we talked about, you know, bow hunting on the, on the other bonus podcast we did. I love seeing bow hunting grow. I love seeing ultra ring go. I love the grow. I love the excitement for it. But it's not all good.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:36Cameron Hanes?

  It's not all good.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:37Cameron Hanes?

  There is some, some risk.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not, just to recap, love that people are getting into it. Maybe just spend a little more time defining your skills, you know, sharpening your iron in the sport.

• 34:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Before you go throw yourself into the deep end.

• 34:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  That's what I'm doing. I'm waiting on my decade. That's why I haven't run it.

• 34:58Cameron Hanes?

  You would have done it.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:00Cameron Hanes?

  I mean,

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Well, I had to work.

• 35:01Cameron Hanes?

  Do you think?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:03Cameron Hanes?

  You probably would have won Coca Dona, do you think?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 35:06Cameron Hanes?

  I mean,

• 35:06Speaker 01

  My category.

• 35:07Cameron Hanes?

  Dan, come on, we've done really good. I don't think there's any editing.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:13Cameron Hanes?

  I don't think there's any editing, so I'm just gonna let that go.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:17Cameron Hanes?

  Your category is, we love your category. We accept your category.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  It's a great category.

• 35:25Cameron Hanes?

  It's probably one of the most amazing categories maybe ever.

• 35:31Cameron Hanes?

  And it's your category is seen. Yeah. Okay, you're seen. I'm seen. I feel seen. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, let's do it. Let's, hey, let's be, I don't know. How about this? Let's be badass ultra runners and badass bow hunters. Perfect. But it's just baby steps. Okay? Cake? Cake pumpkin?

• 36:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I forgot a shout out. Okay, here's another shout out. Courtney Dauwalter, Minnesota Twin Cities Marathon, 249. Pretty good. Pretty damn good. So what I said is if you can run a 249 in your first one, Olympic trials is 237 for women. And then I see she signed up for C I M.

• 36:34Cameron Hanes?

  I said, if you can run 26 630s, which is, that's what 249 is,

• 36:41Cameron Hanes?

  you can also do six minute miles and that would be Olympic trials. God, how sick would that be? I. She, she never said that's her goal. I said, that's my goal for her. She didn't even acknowledge it. Well, do you remember the last time you set a goal for her? I do. I do. So I just love how, yeah, she's just a badass. I mean, obviously number one fan, but yeah. So then another, on that, on that note, Rachel Interkin, who we've talked about, who won mammoth. She wants to come on. She said she has a lot of shit to talk. So I'm like, hey, it's all love.

• 37:23Cameron Hanes?

  It's all love. Let's do it. Eli Whibby, I think is his last name from LA. He just did Moab. He's coming. Andy Glaze, I just, he just sent me a message too. We're gonna get him here. Yeah, we got, so it's gonna be ultra running extravaganza. Yeah, you guys won't have to listen to me. Yeah. So much. It's been a. But why do people love shit talkers?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 37:50Cameron Hanes?

  Are you guys retarded? Are you guys what? Who are we talking to?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  We're pandering to the retards.

• 37:55Cameron Hanes?

  I guess so. I mean, there's a lot. I didn't know there's that many retards. We got a, we got, we own that market.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  We got the demographic tightened up.

• 38:05Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, maybe I need to stand up and just like pull on my wieners now with retards.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Now we're gonna have to have edits.

• 38:12Cameron Hanes?

  You know how when you're a little kid, you just wear a t-shirt, no underwear, and you're just kind of pulling your, your dick out? Is that, I mean, could I do that? And that would be like, people watching would be like, alright.

• 38:26Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway, God, it was going so good too.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 38:29Cameron Hanes?

  What happened?

• 38:30Speaker 01

  I have to make announcements, otherwise I'll get fired.

• 38:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Macy, you can dim the lights.

• 38:35Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Hi, folks.

• 38:41Cameron Hanes?

  Hi.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  I'm Gideon and I'm here to let you know that we're launching our first giveaway of the holiday season and it's an elk hunt in Utah.

• 38:53Cameron Hanes?

  Hey, you know what though? We're giving away, I think like three elk hunts this year.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  We're giving away like a hundred and twenty-five grand in prizes.

• 39:02Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say cash. I was like.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Oh, worth of hunts.

• 39:05Cameron Hanes?

  Could I have, could I have that?

• 39:09Cameron Hanes?

  Well, how do I get in on this? When we say we.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:14Cameron Hanes?

  Is that me?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 39:16Cameron Hanes?

  So where the did I get this money? When the did we get ice cream?

• 39:21Speaker 01

  You're giving away.

• 39:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, no. You're giving away your house. Oh, sweet.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you guys thought the truck was good.

• 39:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  We're giving away the house.

• 39:29Cameron Hanes?

  The house and the shop and the gym and it's all yours.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we're giving away. I won't make her edit.

• 39:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, good.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  We're also giving away Kawasaki again.

• 39:39Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, the side by side.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yep, and a lift, run, shoot experience with yours truly, well, with.

• 39:45Cameron Hanes?

  Is it with me?

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yours truly, yeah.

• 39:48Cameron Hanes?

  I have to do that with Jen Pop?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  I don't think Jen Pop. I think we're just giving it away for one person.

• 39:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 39:55Cameron Hanes?

  They get to come and they're gonna train with me?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 39:59Cameron Hanes?

  Good job not acknowledging that. Um. Okay, so they're gonna come and lift, run, shoot, huh?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:07Cameron Hanes?

  And just a regular person?

• 40:10Speaker 01

  It says, we're giving away.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  No, it just says a lift, run, shoot experience. So I think people can sign up and get entered.

• 40:19Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Well, let me just, let me just say, if you come and lift, good job. If you arrive at my house.

• 40:35Cameron Hanes?

  And we lift, run, shoot.

• 40:39Cameron Hanes?

  You are gonna hate it.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  I'm just.

• 40:42Cameron Hanes?

  You will hate most of that day.

• 40:48Cameron Hanes?

  But you're, you're, you're invited.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  They can do Gideon's version.

• 40:52Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Swimming.

• 40:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Water toys.

• 40:56Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Uh, okay. Chips and salsa.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Lots of pool noodles.

• 41:02Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Yeah. So, hey, we're gonna give one away, I guess. But.

• 41:10Cameron Hanes?

  You'll hate it.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  I'm just, it is not gonna be a fun experience.

• 41:15Cameron Hanes?

  But you're invited.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:16Cameron Hanes?

  And yeah, you might win.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Listen, and to be fair, if I bought something thinking I was gonna win a truck and I got that, I'd be pretty pissed.

• 41:25Cameron Hanes?

  Going on? This is bullshit. Yeah, I think we're gonna have to really make sure they know what they're signing up for.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:32Cameron Hanes?

  But, hey, I mean, no matter what, we're gonna, so my goal when I have, like, usually it's like athletes or whoever. I don't know who comes here, bow hunters, I guess sometimes, but my goal is all fighters. My goal is always, I want it to be the hardest thing they've ever done, no matter who it is. So if it's you and you haven't done like crazy, we're just gonna do like a little more than you've done. So don't, if you've run three miles, maybe we'll run five miles. That's it. So I'm not, I'm kinda joking around.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're joking.

• 42:09Cameron Hanes?

  We wanted to be.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Just joking, folks.

• 42:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we wanted to be positive. Um, yeah, I mean, I know.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I think you sold it really well.

• 42:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we're not trying to tie our dick in a knot or anything cool.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  The vivid imagery.

• 42:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was like, I put up, God is so, did you see that little clip I put up?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  The trading?

• 42:41Cameron Hanes?

  No, about tying your dick in a knot? Hey, Joe just texted me, what the hell did he say? Oh, um, let's see, no, so here is my, uh, what I put up.

• 42:58Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no.

• 43:01Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Bastard.

• 43:02Cameron Hanes?

  No. No. Where the?

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Don't try to tie your dick in a knot. That's the kind of shit you'd hear when you's hanging around old men.

• 43:09Cameron Hanes?

  Hold on.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Don't try to tie your dick in a knot. That's the kind of shit you'd hear when you's hanging around old men and somebody'd ask them advice on something serious. And I just remember being 10 or 11 years old, just standing there thinking, man, I can't even fold this motherfucker. Y'all can tell y'all's in a knot, man, life ain't fair. You know, you don't understand what you're hearing at the time. Because then they pop off with some philosophical shit, like, hey, if it's got tires, tracks, or tits, rent it. You don't want the problems of having to buy it. You don't know what you're learning at the time. You don't, and I have people asking all the time, like, man, where do you come up with this shit? I didn't come up with it. It's shit I learned growing up around groups of old men that usually stood around holding something like a natural ice or Coors banquet. Something with some, with some depth to it.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  They just be standing around fixing shit or burning shit and you don't know it at the time, but you learn how to deal with fire, fix a fucking lawnmower motor. Then you learn philosophical things from them old bastards and everybody just thinks it's funny. But it's true. It's absolutely true. So now, you know, I just give them back to y'all. And then when my kid asks me something and he tries to tell me what to do, I just look at him and be like, who's fucking this chicken? You hold the wings. He don't.

• 44:22Cameron Hanes?

  Who's this chicken? See, that's good stuff.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  That is good stuff.

• 44:27Cameron Hanes?

  Right, so I don't really know what the point was, but that's what you might leave here with after your lifter shit experience.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you never know.

• 44:36Cameron Hanes?

  That's my goal.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we got a bunch of new products coming out too. Head over to CameronHanes.com. Death, death, what is the symptoms, maybe death?

• 44:48Cameron Hanes?

  Who's holding these wings? Okay, well, that's all the public service announcements we have. The, the, the PDA or no PSA?

• 45:00Speaker 01

  PSA, PDA is Public Display of Affection.

• 45:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, well, we're not gonna do that. Unless we're tying our dick in a knot. All right, guys, keep hammering, keep crammering, keep.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Stammering.

• 45:12Cameron Hanes?

  Stammering. Stammering. Later.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Someone to blame, they sent that hate, it fuels my pace. I am Roy Tough, I am the change, the fuel in dirt. Feeling like Cam Hanks. Oh, give me the mods, nobody wants, I'll give you my heart, I carry the work. Give me that impossible task, I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt, I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question on earth, that I just died, that I endured. Give me them mods, nobody wants, I'll give you my heart, I carry the work. Give me that impossible task, I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt, I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question on earth, that I just died, that I endured.

• 46:03Cameron Hanes?

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• 46:47Cameron Hanes?

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• 47:29Cameron Hanes?

  Tough, reliable, and made for hunters who push hard. Here's the deal. The last time we released a Pack Out, it sold out in under 24 hours. Gone. You need to be ready the second they go live at montanaknifecompany.com, because they won't last. And if you can't wait until then, Montana Knife Company gives listeners of this podcast 10% off any knife right now. Just use code CAM at checkout. The Keep Hammering Pack Out, my signature blade, built for the backcountry. Get yours October 1st before they're gone.