Harry Jowsey: My Wedding & Divorce

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Harry Jowsey. Harry opens up about his Let’s Marry Harry experience AKA being engaged to 20 women at the same time. He and Alex unpack the drama, the red flags, putting his heart on the line and what he learned along the way. Enjoy!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:06Speaker 00

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Harry Jowsey, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  I feel like this is like really different vibes

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  from our normal podcasting.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's different.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  No, it's just, we're in such different places in our life.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird?

• 2:31Speaker 00

  You got married and I'm pregnant.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, what are we doing?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  I know. No, no, what's crazy is, and we always talk about this, I've known you almost as long as I've known Matt. I've known Matt a little bit longer.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  But you hate that. You like to say, no, it was the same day. I'm like, it wasn't the same day.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  It wasn't?

• 2:49Speaker 00

  No, but he dropped me off when I was going to record with you, Call Her Daddy. What was that, like, seven years ago?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, was it? No, 2020. I was in a person seven years ago.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Okay, so six years ago, almost seven years ago?

• 3:00Speaker 02

  But that's crazy.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  I had silver hair.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  You looked like a little cherub, and you were just so excited and eager about the industry. And now we're both like...

• 3:10Speaker 02

  And now we're cooked.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  Um, but the la- okay, so you are someone who I would say, aside from Lauren, because she's obviously my best friend, but like, you are officially the most reoccurring guest on Call Her Daddy.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  That's, but thank you for having me.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Well, I almost feel like it's like you and I have had to kind of like do it a couple of times. Because I think the first time was like, whoa, these two are insane. It was like my very Barstool days still. We were talking a lot about sex. We were, there was the classic, I think it went viral when you talked about bum fluff on a girl.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  That's right. Yeah, that was so fun.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  Oh, but it was so fun. And we were so insane. And then slowly we progressed to like being friends off of, you know, the internet and podcasting land. And then we would just yearly have updates together. And so we went from like, oh my God, he's got a girlfriend. And then like, there was a cheating scandal, and then he has a girlfriend, and then whatever, and then I'm getting married. And now you got married, I'm pregnant, and we're sitting here almost eight years later together.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Crazy. What are we doing?

• 4:08Speaker 00

  I know.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  It's so wild.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  So I was looking back at our last interview.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  And the last time I interviewed you, you basically said, Alex, I am officially dating to marry. Like, I am officially dating to marry. This is what I'm looking for. I'm done with all the F-boy stuff. And since then, you have been engaged to 20 women. I love a man with follow-through.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  That's my dream. Isn't that so wild? And to live in their house with them too?

• 4:39Speaker 00

  I cannot believe, leave it to you to be engaged to 20 women at once, like...

• 4:44Speaker 02

  It's also crazy because all the comments are like, oh, he only cast brunette girls. And I was like, I had no idea. I didn't even know I was gonna do it. I just showed up.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Okay, let's talk about this. I will never forget when you, our TV team at Done Well on Netflix, all came together. And we were like, Harry Jowsey needs a show. Guys, I'm not kidding you. We all sat around a table and we're like, Harry Jowsey needs a show. We need this man back on TV.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  And of course, we always want to push you towards hosting, which I think is where you're gonna go soon. Because I think we've kind of...

• 5:15Speaker 02

  If you have me, you can plan it.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  But we said, we gotta give him one more, like,

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  like, what's Harry's, well, what does Harry need? And we all look and we said, Harry needs to get married.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Harry needs 20 fiancés.

• 5:28Speaker 00

  And so we came up with Let's Marry Harry.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Which is the show now that has aired on Netflix. If anyone lives under a rock, basically, you be... Just don't talk about it.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Guys, it's a little hot in here. Let me just tell you something. Your friend's pregnant.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  And when, as a pregnant woman, Harry, I'm running like 20 degrees hotter.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Is that how it works?

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, for me.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Okay, so, so, so picture Matt and I in bed.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  He is basically in a turtleneck and mittens, because I've got the house set to 61 at night.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Really?

• 6:01Speaker 00

  And I can't even keep the covers on because I'm so hot.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  What? It's like that?

• 6:05Speaker 00

  It's a whole thing. Maybe one day you'll get a woman pregnant.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Well, I try.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  The show.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there. Rewind.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Keep it, keep it together. Okay, we're, we're still wholesome so far. So far, I feel like nothing we've said is too wholesome.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Can I say something really wholesome?

• 6:21Speaker 00

  What?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. No, this is real. And I would never, ever say this because we would never have the chance to.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Like, we would never, we would, we wouldn't talk like this. That's really weird. Okay, but because all, the whole press run that everyone's asking me about love and like what that means. And I remember at the start of the show, before I was about to do it, and I'm thinking about like what I would want, and like how I, like what I see is love, right? And the only two people that I think about is obviously you and Matt and Sunny and Andrea with their relationship. But I was thinking about it the other day. I stopped.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  That's so sweet.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  No, because the other night when we were having dinner, and Matt was telling me about the brand deal, whatever else. And I was, and I realized in that moment, I was like, nothing else matters on the planet to this guy, apart from the person that's sitting across from us. And in my head, I was, I think I've been searching for that because I look at you guys as like role models. I was like, this is such a beautiful, like, this is everything. Like, for, for both you guys, nothing on the planet matters at, at all. Like, he loves you more than anything on the planet. And the whole, even yesterday and today, I was thinking about it. I was like, wow. I, anyone would be lucky to have half of what you guys have.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  First of all, you're so sweet. And I feel so happy that we have genuinely built a relationship that is on camera, always so dynamic and so fun. And we can literally talk for hours. But I think what I, Matt and I, when we were going into this experience with you, I remember you coming over. I need to show you. It's a video of you with your little dog, uh...

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Was it Bruce or Kai?

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Kai.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  And she's like walking on the table outside of our house, and you and Matt are talking. And you're in the middle, basically talking about like, asking him like, how, how did you know Alex was the one?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  And I feel like we've been so fortunate to have so many really intimate conversations with you because you genuinely have wanted to seek out answers of like, how did you guys know? Like, and I, and I think leading up to this process, which I want to get into, like, there was so much that you were, your ears were so open to everyone that you like respected, like you're saying, in, in relationship dynamics. Because you were genuinely just trying to take it all in before you went into this experience, which I feel like not a lot of people are going to have expected. So I, I do want to talk about that. But, okay, to anyone that's living under a rock, doesn't know, you basically became The Bachelor. Except all 20 women, when they showed up on day one, got rings.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  It really makes it real. And I think especially for like a woman, when you put that ring on, you're like, oh my God. Like, I see it. Like, it makes it a little bit more real.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  So they all have the rings. And then if you eliminate them, you take the ring back.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Until you find the one. Let's go back. You obviously started on Too Hot to Handle. Did you ever imagine that your wedding would be on television?

• 9:19Speaker 02

  No, I didn't even imagine that this shit would happen. I didn't even think anyone believed when we posted the trailer. Like, all the comments, like, there's no way.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  No one thought it was real.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  No one thought it was real. Like, this guy's not getting married?

• 9:32Speaker 00

  To be fair, because you have photoshopped your face so many times as The Bachelor. So actually, now in hindsight, I get why people are like, there's no way this is real.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  Because you're always fucking with everyone.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Because I was trying to manifest it. And here we are.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Well, here we are. Worked out. Hold on. So you never thought it would actually happen, but then obviously you were ecstatic when you found out that someone would want to watch you get married on TV.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  I think it was more exciting to know that people were actually there to marry me. I was like, there's no way.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Did you have any hesitations though, like signing on to do this, to get married on television?

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I think the biggest thing for me was I was being worried about if I was going to waste the girl's time, which nineteen of them I did, basically. And I remember being in their house and I was kind of going through that like mental dilemma, dilemma, dilemma. Is that a word?

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  It's a big word for me.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  Big. He's got the glasses on. He's coming in hot. He studied the dictionary before this.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  No, but I was, my brain, I was like, oh, I just don't want to upset anyone or waste anyone's time. Cause it's basically what you said to me before I went on is like, if this is the same old shit.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Like this, you're wasting everyone's time and it sucks and you're going to break these girls hearts. Basically you were yelling at me to figure it out.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  I was grilling into you so hard. Like you can't take this as a joke.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  And we're not doing this to just make a TV show. We're actually doing this because we can go make a million TV shows, Harry. I'm wanting you to do this because I genuinely believe in you, but you have to believe in yourself. There's a lot of pep talks.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  There was a lot. You guys would go for it.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  So what ultimately made you decide to say yes?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Because I'm like, my whole life, my, since I was like nineteen, the first show was in New Zealand. Since I was nineteen, my whole dating life has been on, had some sort of spotlight or like pressure on it. And I'm like, well, if I really want to just do it, I should probably just like dive headfirst in and have no phone and be in there and figure it out. And then also like, there's no bullshit. Like you guys would yell, you would tell me, well, you do tell me.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  We kept you in line.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm like, it's good. Like what other relationship would I have where I have so many watchful eyes, making sure that I do the right thing?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Yeah. We had like guardrails on you. You were like on your training wheels and we were all like steering you through the course. I'm like texting our producers, like tell them to do this, tell them to do this, tell them to stop this.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Slow down. So, no, you said, I think it was like, stop kissing everyone. And I was like, Alex, but I want to.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  Okay, wait. Before you started this, how did your friends and your family react that you were going to be getting married on television?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  I think, um, my family was making it more about themselves. So much drama in my family.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  You've got a lot of family drama.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was so much. And then my friends, I guess, were just confused. Like it's a weird thing to, hey, do you want to come to my wedding?

• 12:23Speaker 00

  How did your therapist feel?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I actually just saw her before this.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  How did that go?

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Um, she was saying, um, she feels like I'm about to have an anxiety attack. Yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. But back when you were starting, you were having, there was no anxiety attack, right? How did she feel when you presented this to her?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  No, I think she was, she was worried. She's like, we're gonna have to have a few more sessions. We're gonna need to reload.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Oh, did you double up every week?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think it was twice a week. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know what else we need to talk about, but she's like, I just want to make sure you're okay.

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• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  Cause I feel like you were reading so many books. Do you remember that?

• 16:25Speaker 02

  I have them in my phone. I haven't saved those.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  I thought you were saying I brought them here to prove to everyone that I read a book.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Look, here's a highlighter. No, there was this one that really got me. It was called He's Scared, She's Scared, and that's all about like self sabotage. And that one was really interesting because I'm like, am I doing that? Am I constantly fucking up? Because that's what I need to do. There was, I even tried to read Emma Ratajkowski's book. Yeah, but I, I think I ordered it in French.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  And also like, I'm like, I don't, oh, okay.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Cause I'm like Men are Evil, I guess. I'm trying to figure out, I was trying to look at myself from like a different perspective instead of POV.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  Oh, I actually respect that. Interesting.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  So I'm like, if I read this and I relate, I'm like, oh.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  And then you got it in French. So you just kind of gave up.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  But I just kept it by my bedside table in case anyone came over and they're like, oh, wow, this guy's really tapping in. But then even with Amanda, before I, before we went on, we sat down for like four and a half hours and she grilled me on every relationship ever. Cause she, she took it very serious.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Yes. Well, I think that was what was interesting is like, I remember you constantly calling me, being like, I read another book. And I'm literally like, at first I didn't really fully believe you, but then I will say, leading up to this experience, I was in shock with how much you were investing in yourself and you were so committed. And that's why I do agree. Like I think you had a lot of people around you, Harry, going into this experience, which I do think it is important to just set the scene. Cause obviously then there's chaos in the show and all of this is where everything's going to come out of whatever. But I, I do, and also just so everyone knows who's watching, I have no reason to gas you up. I could be like, you went in so blind. You looked like

• 18:03Speaker 00

  an idiot. We were all annoyed with you day one. It's just not the truth. You actually were so intentional and reading and, and no, it was shocking. And you really, every time you came over to my house and you sat with Matt and I, it felt like each time we saw you leading up to this, you got a little bit more wise in terms of what you were looking for, but in a really cute way, Harry, you also were getting a little bit more nervous. And I remember the last time we saw you before you went off to film, you were like, I'm nervous. Like I'm nervous to go into this because there's going to be so much on the line and I feel like it's getting more real and you were taking it really seriously.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  It was really scary. Even that first day, I remember when I was about to say goodbye to Sunny, Amanda and Georgia, I was about to cry.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  I know. I remember that scene.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  It was like, it was really struggling. I was like, I can't cry in front of Sunny.

• 18:52Speaker 00

  Wait, when do you think it started to feel real to you?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Um, I think it was, it was the first day. Cause it's kind of all like hazy and like crazy, like all getting ready, like doing the fittings, whatever else. Just felt like another TV show. But then when I walked down and I saw the girls and I literally got so dizzy and I like blacked out and I couldn't, I didn't know what to do with my hands.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  I remember you were sweating a lot.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was freaking out. And then, yeah, I think that was the first moment. And then the first two days, fully blacked out.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  No, you know what's so funny? I remember in the first episode, the, a lot of the women before they saw you, there were some women with hesitations and they were like, I don't even know if this guy's gonna actually like, is he, does he really want to do this? And it was so sweet when you walked down and you welcome everyone. So many of the women were like, we, he actually seems really nervous and he's like getting red and like flushed in the face and like, oh man, maybe he actually like is genuine. And it was cute to see women like see you in person and see how you were like a little jittery and you were nervous and you were anxious. I also think something that really showed me that you were ready to change.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  You got rid of the Lamborghini.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  I did.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  And you moved out of Hollywood.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  What did you trade the Lambo in for?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  I got a Range Rover, like a big one.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Uh huh. What color?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  It's matte black.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  And what color was the Lambo?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Bright orange.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Every single time you showed up to my home, or we went to a dinner, or we went to a coffee, or you showed up to the offices. I, I burned holes through your shirt with my eyeballs and I was like, get rid of it. Get rid of it.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  It was cool. It was so fun.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  It was so fuckboy. It was so over the top. It was so noisy. It was literally loud and it was so loud visually. And I was like, this is annoying. This is annoying.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  No, I'm gonna get another one.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  And I kept being like, Harry, get rid of this. And you were like, no, I like it. And now?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Talk to me about what's in the Range Rover, Harry.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  So I was like, oh, that's a really nice car. Can I buy it? And I just bought it, but there's like screens in the back.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  For children.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause I was like, oh, if I have kids, I want them in the back like.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  You're gonna be an uncle soon.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  If we're on a road, road trip, crazy.

• 21:02Speaker 00

  I don't know if I'll let you be alone with the baby.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think so.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  I'll drive.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I was thinking about that on the way over here. I was like, I wonder when I'll actually meet it. Probably when it's like six months old. Cause I feel like you guys are gonna go to hibernation for a while, right?

• 21:14Speaker 00

  We're gonna go to hibernation, but you will be Uncle Harry.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Please.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Now I want to understand.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  How did it feel to know with everything you've been through in the public eye? How did it feel to know that 20 women willingly showed up? And actually wanted to marry you?

• 21:30Speaker 02

  It's kind of wild because I've, I've seen some of them like kind of be a little bit mean to me. And I'm like, no one put a gun to your head and said, you have to do this show. Like you willingly signed up. You went through the months of audition process, bought outfits for it, got your makeup and came like there's some of them that are already like being a little bit silly.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  Oh, online?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I didn't.

• 21:52Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  I didn't know who was gonna be there. I did, I showed up.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  Harry had zero, zero influence on the casting process.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Cause if I did.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  He would text me and be like, how we looking? And I was like, shut up. I was like, I'm not telling you anything.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  You didn't tell me anything. So annoying.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  We told you nothing, but do you think that a lot of those, do you think any of those women came for clout?

• 22:14Speaker 02

  For sure. Like I, but it's also naive of me to think like that they wouldn't consider that.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  You know, like you go on a reality show, like any reality show, there's gonna be some sort of attention. And if it's a good show, if it's on Netflix, like there's public attention. So I think my brain is two things can be true, you know?

• 22:31Speaker 00

  That's fair.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  There's one pillar that's like, hey, I would love my life to change and potentially become an influencer or get a ton of followers, whatever else. But also I could meet this really amazing guy with a Range Rover and marry him. Like there's two things that could be true. I think some people, their clout one was a little bit heavier than others, but that's okay.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Well, I think probably they had like, they're like, I tried to get on Love Island. That didn't work.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  And then I tried to get on Love is Blind. That didn't work. And then I was like, you know what? Let's, let me audition for marry Harry.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Finally, my way in. It's crazy.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  And I hope they get the followers that like a little bit of traction.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hope so.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Did you hope that the women would come in blind and have kind of no full understanding of you? Or did you want them to do their research?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Honestly, I think it's disarming if they did their research, you know, like, cause then, or maybe actually no.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  That's horrible. No, cause I, my brain, what I was thinking is if they know everything.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Then it's like, all right, well, I'm already here and I want to do it, right?

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Oh, I see. So you're saying like they knew everything and they researched and they still chose to show up and be like, put a ring on this finger, then they were kind of accepting you for who you are.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:38Speaker 00

  And then if they were going in blind, you're like, so let me tell you about my ex Francesca and I. Let's go back to the very beginning. And you're like, oh. Okay, okay. I see.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  Do you feel like throughout the process, one proved to be more successful than the other? Like the women who knew you because they did their research or the women who went in blind?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Honestly, I think that nothing could really prepare you for the, that environment. And I think we're all learning and trying to figure it out the whole time. So I don't know, like I've, but they also, even the ones that were blind, they were curious because they started asking questions and like trying to figure out like, well, why was, why are you saying that? Or why is he talking about like?

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Oh, right. Cause they're looking at the other women like, wait, why, what do you guys mean?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, did he have a bad tweet or something?

• 24:25Speaker 00

  You're like a bad tweet, a bad couple of years.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Okay. Being engaged to that many women at once is a lot before that. Like you can be honest. We're like, let's go back to the fuckboy days. How many people had you ever juggled on a roster at once?

• 24:47Speaker 02

  I think at, at least five.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  But like.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  I feel like that's a good hefty roster, but like not.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  No, I remember when I saw you first, I would be like three a day. But it would be like recurring guests.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Right, right, right. No, no, no. I, I can pinpoint.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  But I don't think I, no, that's a lot. That's a lot of people.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  That is, that's a lot, but yeah, I feel like a roster can't be two because then you're gonna get feelings for one.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  I think a roster of three is like a healthy roster. Four, you're like, ooh. Five, you're like, damn.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  But thank God you didn't hit us with like a 10.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, I would, no, no 10.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  No 10. Maybe.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Did you? You wouldn't.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  No, I wouldn't. I didn't have the time. Like I felt like, cause you know what? It gets hard when you have a roster back in the day. And again, this is normal. This is not being a bad person, but when you're single and you're talking to people like,

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Gonna have fun.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  I feel like I look back and it's really hard to, I struggled with remembering stories that I would tell some of these men. So I would literally be like, oh my, did I already tell him that story? And I would type in a, like a key word into my phone and be like, oh no, I told that one to Sean, but I haven't told it to James yet. Cause, cause you're getting your life mixed up a little bit, right?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  I would fuck myself up because I, on my old podcast, I would tell stories about what's happening. And then they'd text me like, why would you say that? And then I'm like, ah, whatever.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. The podcast did me in too. Don't worry. We've both been there. We learned our lessons. Um, okay. We're gonna go back to the beginning of the experience. You said at the start, if this is up to me, I'm gonna marry someone toxic and we're gonna have a terrible public divorce.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Well.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  Let's unpack this.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Going into filming, were you attracted to toxic?

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Um, I think I, if I wasn't, I would bring it out for sure. I think like one of the things I've figured out with my therapist is with my parents' relationship, because there was so much friction. That's what I thought was growing up. Like that's what I needed or that's what's right. And I guess the best thing about these shows and having so many people have opinions is you kind of start to self reflect a little bit. And I guess before Let's Marry, I was really like trying to figure that out. Like, why am I always attracted to the chaos? Like, why am I always like, if I, if I don't find it, why do I create it? It's so stupid. So I guess that was my thing is I would just start to like make it happen.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  Without getting too into it, I think, and why I've always wanted to emphasize this as much as you're comfortable is like, I think that your upbringing was a lot.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  To say the least.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  And it was very volatile in moments. And so I think that you are this really funny guy and you're charming and you're good looking and you're outgoing. And you're a jokester. Keep going.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  You're a jokester. And so I think sometimes you don't lead with your emotion and you kind of hide your emotions. And so it can come off like you're being really, I don't know, like in moments you're, it can feel like, oh, he doesn't even care.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  But I think deep down, you can push people away or do things that are really in the moment feeling toxic because you're actually just getting freaked out if it's getting, you're getting too close to the person. Which is like psychologically, that is like a complete normal thing that people do.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  That's what it was. Yeah. Well, the, the thing is with Georgia, when we spoke again about it, because like we came back together a couple, after a couple of years, like after my dad had passed. And we were like, oh, let's clear the air. She, that was the biggest thing. She's like, I just thought you just never cared because you're just like always laugh about everything or like, wouldn't take it serious. And that was also a big turning point in my brain as well. Cause it's like, oh, sometimes you just need to hear that.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  You do, because I think it's, it's, it's such a defense mechanism for you, even whenever we're having a serious conversation and I know you're always giggling. And then I'll be like, okay, but Harry, like real talk. And you're like, okay, fine. I think you get really uncomfortable sometimes with going deep and it takes the right person to get you to go deep. And then once you do go deep, like you're a very emotional ball. You're a big ball, but you're a, a big emotional ball.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  That's why I'm scared for this show, to be honest, because um, it's so vulnerable. And like, I, I think we got lucky with like the girls to make it like such a safe space.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  For everyone to be out, like make everything comfortable. But that's why like leading up to I've been so anxious because it's not like I'm playing a dickhead or like being like how I was in these other shows. It's like, oh, this real life stuff, like dealing with my emotions with my family and then my dad and then having my family involved and like not, and no one else to like kind of put the blame on, like whatever mistake is.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  That's such a good point. Like when everyone watches Let's Marry Harry, for the good, the bad, the ugly, you have to know that in almost every other reality show that Harry has been in prior, you have played a character to some degree.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  And for this one, you were completely stripped down and.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Couldn't do anything but be myself.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  You were just yourself.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Let's talk about Georgia, though.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Um, for anyone who doesn't know, that's your ex-girlfriend.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:58Speaker 00

  And we basically formulated the show to make sure that the decision wasn't 100% up to you when it came to choosing who you were choosing, because we're like, leave Harry to his own devices. It's good, we're gonna just repeat the pattern. So let's like, help him a little bit on this journey. And one of the people that you brought in, you brought in some of your closest friends, but one of the people that you did bring in is your ex-girlfriend, Georgia, to kind of sit on this panel to watch you and help and guide you, which I think so many people were shocked by.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Um, what was her reaction when you asked her to do this?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Um, you know, me and Georgia have such a good relationship now that it was funny. Like, she's like, of course, like, why would I, why would I not? Like, she laughed. Um, but then on the other hand, I was thinking about it, like, what a brave thing for her to do, to just walk into a house of like 20 girls that are trying to marry her ex. Um, and also like to put everything that we've been through to the side to be there. So like, hats off to her. But I know in the casting process, I remember when Netflix called me, I said, interview all my exes. Like, I don't care, all of them. But obviously, Georgia's the friendly.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  We did, we did, we interviewed them all.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  They're friendly aside, yeah. Yeah, I bet. Really scary. Uh, but yeah, honestly, like, because it's such a playful place, like, it was, it was so nice and like, easy and safe. And I guess, um, it's also good to kind of have that closure and to, for people to see that, like, you can be this close with an ex and it's all good.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. What do you think qualified her for the position?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Because Georgia's been there through basically everything. Um, she's seen me at rock bottom and super highs, but also, um, I just think the emotional maturity too, to be able to like, put everything to the side. And when my dad passed, to reach out and to be there was like, really special. And for us to just, after so many years, like after that moment, and like, hang out and just have, like, we had the most fun. I remember when I saw her again after all these years, and I was in a bit of a sticky situation ship, and I wasn't having fun. And I saw Georgia again, and we went into a concert, and we had the best night ever. We had so much fun. I was like, oh, this is, like, this is what life's about, is just having like, a good pal, is having a great night and going to a concert and having laughs. And we just laughed the whole night.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  And there was no feeling like you needed to rekindle anything?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  No, no, no, we were all good. Like, we knew, like, we knew we were, like, we're just gonna be, always just gonna be friends. And so that was really special, and that was really nice. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, that's what life's about. So, yeah, I think, like, yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  No, that makes me happy for you that you clearly feel safe with her. And I have to give her so much props, because when I was thinking about it, and I actually would love everyone else to think about this for themselves, because it's kind of an interesting exercise. I was like, if I was in Harry's position, and I needed to have one of my exes come and help me find love, I was like, who would I have them call? And it was so crazy trying to think about it, because I was like, oh my God, I feel like almost all of them would try to sabotage me.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 00

  And there's like a few in there that I'm like, all right, he wouldn't do me dirty, but I'm really happy. I think it showed, um, a lot of growth also, even just between the two of you, because you publicly had gone at each other prior to this. So to be on a Netflix show together and be nothing but supportive, I was like, wow, maybe it, maybe you can actually be cordial with exes.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  So going into this experience, do you remember, what did you tell producers that you were looking for in a wife?

• 33:34Speaker 02

  I think I just, actually, I don't even know what I said. I just said, just do it. Like, just figure it out. Because I don't want to, no, I remember I told them, I'm gonna tell them like, literally nothing, because I just wanted them to just do it for me. And no, and I don't want to put any pressure on like, oh, I need them to be 5'7" or whatever else. I'm just like, as long as they have a job and they're happy, then let's go.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  I feel like I remember talking to you halfway through when we sat at the coffee shop.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  And I feel like you started to have an idea of what you wanted in a wife. Like, what are some of those qualities?

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I love someone who's independent, has a very good sense of humor, um, someone with tough skin, and someone that loves their, their work, like, really obsessed with what they do. Again, it kind of comes back to you and Matt, like, you guys are so obsessed with what you're doing and, and growing and building. And again, just like, looking for my version of that.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's interesting, because I think, Harry, you went into this, and I remember you were like, I want someone who's, you know, gonna be an amazing support and someone who can support me in my crazy life. And I want to support them, obviously. But like, I think you were kind of envisioning that maybe you were gonna find someone that you both couldn't have big careers, almost. And I think you were almost thinking like, this woman will be a great mother. And I was always like, we know, she can still be a great mother and have her own career.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can do everything.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Hello? Come on, give your friends some props. Um, but I think what, it was interesting. I think slowly throughout this experience, you actually realized, and I remember you saying to me like, oh, wait, I actually think I'm such a business person, and I love my work and I love my career. Like, I think I need someone who also feels that way about their work and their job, as opposed to maybe more of like, uh, someone who isn't, doesn't have a more traditional job or whatever. Like, I think you wanted someone with a little bit of career.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  It's nice too, to like, go and have independent lives, or else, I've been in relationships where they've just been at home all day, and I come home, and I'm like, fuck, like, I-

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think it's like, to each their own. And I think you thought you wanted that, and that's okay. And I think that's what's beautiful about having all these different types of relationships, is everyone watching. It's like, that, that dynamic works really well for some people. And I actually, it's interesting, because I think a lot of people would think that would work for you, and it just, it doesn't work for you.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 00

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• 38:42Speaker 02

  Okay, fun.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Dating deal breakers. Before going into this experience, obviously, you had one way of thinking. Now, who you are today, I want you to answer genuinely, okay?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  What you think about this. Okay, let's see where you stand today. How do you feel about someone who kisses and tells?

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Gross.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  What? No, that's bad. We don't do that anymore.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  We're not allowed to. It even, no.

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm not, I'm not judging, I'm just giggling.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Do you want me to kiss and tell at all?

• 39:13Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. I love how you're always looking for me to give you the answer. Stick with your answer. Explain.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Don't kiss and tell.

• 39:19Speaker 00

  Why?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Because it's not, I, and we went through on the show, like, when I had sexual intercourse with them.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Why did you just take Zex, Jule and the girls?

• 39:32Speaker 02

  No, no, I think, yeah, it's like belly talking and kissing and telling is, is no bueno for me.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  Would you be offended though? Let's say if your wife was talking to her friend group about your guy's sex life?

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Um, if I'm not in the room, I think it's a bit weird, you know, like, I don't, I don't think that that's like appropriate.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  So you want to be in the room with your wife and all of her friends talking about your sex life?

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Tell, tell them, let them know. No, cause I was thinking about it. Like I've been, you know, in a relationship and like their friends that come in and they're like asking about it. And I'm like, yeah, if they're comfortable, if we're all comfortable, you want to know, like, let's go. But like, I don't, if you're gonna go into a bar and be like, oh,

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  It's icky.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  I get that. Okay, great.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  How did you manage that in the house when girls would be arguing over you?

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was like, let's go. No, it's like, it's, you know, it's nice that they've all got a good friendship out of this too.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  You think they got a good friendship out of it?

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know that they have a group chat called, let's divorce Harry?

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Oh my God.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. They just send all my shit in there all the time. Cause a few of them are rats. So they, they send it to me. They always send shit back.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Dude, that is actually amazing. I love those women. Let's divorce Harry.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's really sad. And as they all get eliminated, they would get added to it. And like, yeah. So then by the end.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  There was a bunch of them that wanted to divorce you.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  All 20. I'm like, can I get in? Cause I had all the film cameras from set. Did I tell you this?

• 40:57Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Oh, I bought a ton of film cameras because obviously we can't have phone. So I think I bought like, maybe like 50 or 60 here. And I gave them to the girls and I said, you'd want these memories. So like take photos of each other. So we can have it for later. So they'd take photos and every week when I have the day off, I'd go and get them developed. And so then, then I have them emailed to me. So by the end of the show, we had hundreds and hundreds of photos. They had all those memories together.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  You're so sentimental.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Well, I was just like, I remember the first, like all the shows I've been on. And I'm like, I would love to have the BTS behind this. Obviously we kind of have a phone, Love Island, they have their phones, whatever. But I'm like, this is just so good for social stuff.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  So did you try to get into the group to be like, ladies, let me in and I'll give you the photos?

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I could also,

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Compromise.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  I was like, guys, if you just want, just add me real quick. I'll just send a link. Like, what do you need?

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Like, we're never adding you. You lose her.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  They didn't add me. Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  Okay. Someone who has never been in love before.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Ick.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Ick.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  No, everyone should be in love. Everyone, every day.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Okay. So you're not looking for someone who hasn't been in love before?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Why?

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Because you learn so much lessons in love. And when you, there we go.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Can you continue?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  This is good.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  I can't give you all the answers. Here we go.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  You have to, you have to. I'm so nervous.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  No, you're doing great.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  No, I've been so nervous all week. This is, this is the hardest week of my life. I felt like I had a rock in my throat.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  Why?

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Cause.

• 42:16Speaker 00

  For me or just for press?

• 42:19Speaker 00

  I'm like, it can't be me.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  No, this is fine.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Okay, okay. Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  No, okay.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  One day you used to be nervous for Call or Daddy.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  You know what's?

• 42:25Speaker 00

  Oh, I guess it's not as big of a deal anymore. You've gotten too comfortable.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  You know what's funny? I was thinking.

• 42:31Speaker 00

  That would ask you the hard question.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  No, be nice, be nice. No, I was thinking, I was like, this is such a career highlight for so many people. Like this is.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Meanwhile, you're like, can I go take a shit?

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm like, Alex, I'm gonna come over, fire up the cameras. Let's get the pod going.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Okay. So you don't want to be with someone who has never been in love?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause you learned so many lessons in love.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  And that's part of life. And I don't like people that haven't gone through like a bad breakup or like any trauma or anything. Because you learn so much in that. And that's where you build your character. So all these people, like some of the girls on the show have had a perfect life and life's good. And I wish that for them, but I don't want those people around me because God forbid, we have a bad day, you won't know how to handle it.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. See that, see, see, this is why we have to get you away from one word answers. Note to whoever your PR team is, no one word answers for Harry. Cause he's gonna give you a ick or a yuck or a gross. And then your actual explanation is exactly what I was looking for. I agree to some people, especially where you're at in life, where you're looking for serious relationships. You don't want someone who hasn't been in love before.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Because you're looking for someone who has experienced life a little bit more than maybe their first go around.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Am I being difficult?

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Are you being difficult?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I'm pulling it out of you.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Really? Am I being hard?

• 43:50Speaker 00

  No, you're just, it's classic Harry where maybe if you were on another show, you, or hopefully they would push you. You give these answers that keep you in that, oh, hairy gelsey lane. And I'm like, no, you're smart.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  You want me to be more?

• 44:04Speaker 00

  And you're an intellectual.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  I have glasses.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  You have glasses on. You've got glasses on for a reason. This is the first time you've ever worn glasses in the Call or Daddy.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Episode. So start speaking like you wear glasses.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm thinking.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Okay, next. Ready? How do you feel about someone who also wants to be in the spotlight?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  You know, I think there's a healthy version of it and unhealthy version of it. Um, if you want to be in the spotlight and do dating shows and whatever else, probably not good for a relationship, but.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  So what are you?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  I don't know what.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  So what's, who?

• 44:40Speaker 02

  No, I've already, I've already done it.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  Oh, so now you're done. What if they're, what if they're, what if they're midway through their journey?

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Enjoy it.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  Okay, let's get into let's marry Harry. Let's like.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Have we not been? Have we not been in it?

• 44:55Speaker 00

  Okay. Filming the show. If I told young Harry, women would be so ravenous, so excited for you, that they would literally try to sneak into your bedroom at night. How do you think young Harry would have responded?

• 45:10Speaker 02

  I probably would have done a backflip.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Then in reality, when these women tried to actually sneak into your room, how did it actually feel?

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Um, it was pretty scary.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, it was pretty scary.

• 45:24Speaker 00

  From the backflip to the, I'm terrified.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  No, it was scary. Cause also my brain is like, if I have sex with someone, it's gonna, and word gets out. Okay. First off, there was so much going on in my head. Okay. Have sex with someone, come quick, embarrass myself. Then.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Was that your, was that top of the priority, you think, of yours?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  I see, I think so, because then it's on TV and then all the girls like, oh, you know, let's sell for a minute.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I'll second Harry's back.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Damn. Harry's a quickie.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  You didn't have to say that twice.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  Let's double down.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  No, I think that was it. And then also like, oh, it's gonna take away from the other girls' experience if we do do that. And then it's like, oh, I have to be fully a hundred and 10%. I don't know why I'm jerking my finger off. Fully a hundred and 10% on the one person I do have sexual intercourse with.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  I see.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Because.

• 46:10Speaker 00

  So a lot of at your brain was, you were worried just about how to navigate intimacy.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was so hard.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Let's talk more about the physical connection.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:20Speaker 00

  Georgia warned you to think with your heart and your mind and not, not your other parts.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  If the physical connection wasn't immediately there for you, was it a red flag?

• 46:32Speaker 02

  No, cause I feel like, um, in real life, for sure. But I think because everyone was so committed, or mostly everyone was committed to that experience, I think that, um, the physical component like wasn't a, a really a thing at all. Cause I also didn't know if they were allowed to come up. Like sure, if we were in real life and we're able to get physical, probably would have cooked the whole thing. So it was nice to kind of slow it down and take a step back.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  On your most, like the biggest day, how many women did you make out with?

• 47:05Speaker 02

  I think like, at least like 10 or 11. Yeah. There's a daybed moment where they just kept coming and I didn't have to leave. And I was like, this is the best day ever.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  I feel like kissing that many people that.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  It was a lot. Yeah. It was a lot, to be honest. And you know what? The first day I got there, I, I remember, I think it was a group date. And I was like, are we, am I able to kiss everyone? And then.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  And then.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  And then we unraveled.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  The floodgates.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. There we are, revel.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  They were like, maybe we should have waited a day. Shit. You were like, I'm allowed to physically hook up with someone. Perfect.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like these are my fiancés. Let's go.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Okay. One of the biggest moments in the series is as viewers, we saw a walk-in that happened and it caused a lot of drama. You were in the bathroom with Amber and Sam overheard and later confronted you about it. I know that then Amber asked you to keep it a secret of what you guys did in the bathroom. And you did end up keeping that secret and you lied about it. Talk to me about that decision.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  See, we got, you got angry at me about this.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Let's talk through it.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Okay. Cause on one hand.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Set the scene. If people haven't watched that episode yet, go watch it, but explain it.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Basically we're getting down to the wire with the final few fiancés and, um, it's getting quite intense. And at these moments, like, you know, the girls are getting like, finding more and more confidence. They come and just seek me out and just hang out and see me. And I know with Amber in that moment, we, she was really questioning the whole process and was really like going through it and trying to figure out if I was serious about her and serious about what was happening. And so she came up to the bedroom and I was like, I know there's one spot where there's no cameras. Obviously not good for TV, but great for mental health and to have nice conversations. And so I ran a shower and we just kind of like, just started laughing and figured it out. And we ended up.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Getting, you know, getting involved with each other. Yeah. So we ended up having sex, but um, one of the girls, Sam, had walked up as that was going on and heard us and thought that we were in the shower, which wasn't true.

• 49:17Speaker 00

  We were just using the shower. Yeah. You were using the shower to drown out the noise.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Drown out the noise because obviously we were getting intimate. Um, and then after that, because it was kind of like sealed the deal, like Amber was like, okay, cool. Like, we're locked in, like, we're good. Um, that was like a good moment for us. It was really special, but I didn't know that Sam had come up. And then also when Sam, you know, obviously, she's not stupid and like e- everyone figured out something was going on because she was, because I know the girls, they had a, like, there was a moment where they would all take one of my watches and their time, how long people are up so that they knew when to come up and like switch it. Did I tell you this?

• 49:55Speaker 00

  Wait, no.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  I had like five watches. I brought like so many watches and they would come up and they would take a watch. It's like, okay, cool. You have 15 minutes because they wanted to, they wanted to be fair on each other and like be systematic. But then some girls would just be like-

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Not them running this like a full tight ship organization. They're like-

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, li- literally. Yeah, it was crazy. So then anyway, yeah, after that moment, um, obviously the girls felt some type of way. They want to confront me about it and me be honest, which I would have loved to, but if someone asked me to not say something and to do something, I'll have to respect it. And ultimately it was probably the best decision.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Okay. So I remember, guys, I'm in the show for like a second.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Um, and I remember we met at the coffee shop and I was torn because obviously I wasn't living in this house with you and I wasn't sitting in the television truck day in and day out. So like, I was obviously getting all the reports and I was hearing what was going on. And I think what was hard is like, I agree with how you handled that in normal life situation. If you sleep with a woman and she's like, I really don't, this is not for other people to talk about. This is not for public fodder. Like, please don't. I agree. I think where the line gets really blurred, when you decide to do reality television, is you're kind of signing up for, we're all dating this one person. And so there needs

• 51:17Speaker 00

  to be some form of transparency, because if we all start lying, then none of us are going to know where we're actually at with this person. And, and so Sam, I think was really genuine in that moment for being upset because it's like, so you lied about that? And I, I agree and disagree with Amber. Like, I'm like, I actually so get it. Amber, it's so on her to be like, please don't tell anyone. It's like, what is the right answer?

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  You could argue the right answer would have been, I hear what you're saying. I think what's difficult is I have many women downstairs who are going to demand an answer and I don't need to give them all the dirty details, but I can't just bold face lie and be like, oh, we did nothing.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all on camera too.

• 52:01Speaker 00

  Exactly. It's all, also, it's on camera. So I, I think, again, and I'm not saying, Harry, if I was in your situation, I may have done the same exact thing because I also think what I respect is like, in that moment, clearly you and Amber were getting so close. And to you, that probably, both of you probably felt even more bonded by being like, let's have something for ourselves.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  And let's not tell people about this and let's not feel like we're on a TV show. We just tried to do this outside of cameras and everything. So I get it. But then I also get why Sam was upset. Do you know what I mean?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  It was a hard one.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  It was a hard one to mentally navigate to. And I think even still like having a hard time about it. But you're right. I haven't thought about it like that because it's also, yeah, we signed up to just be open and honest and have that communication. And I probably should have put my flag in the ground a little bit on that. But I think I was just again, so nervous to-

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Understand it.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Do the wrong thing and be the same guy again and again.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  I get that.

• 53:04Speaker 00

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• 53:47Speaker 00

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• 54:30Speaker 02

  Easy. I got this.

• 54:30Speaker 00

  I'm going to show you pictures that women use in their everyday lives and you are going to just answer what it is. Okay. Are you ready? Go.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Microblade.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  It's not, that's a microblade for your face?

• 54:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that was so quick and like, I feel like I would have even fumbled like, wait, what is that thing called again? It's to shave your face?

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  Does it freak you out that girls shave their face? Every night I'm like, come on, Matt, let's do it together. He's like, Alex.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Ew, no you don't.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've shaved my face with my husband.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  You got peach fuzz?

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Yep. Everyone does. Okay, ready?

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, your fingers are on it. What is it? Oh, is that a heat roller?

• 55:12Speaker 00

  No, kind of. No.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  It's for your hair. It's a Dyson Airwrap. Is that right?

• 55:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 55:21Speaker 00

  I can't tell if I'm, I'm impressed. But is this like, is this like too much of a red flag?

• 55:28Speaker 02

  No, this is good.

• 55:29Speaker 00

  Okay, next. Ready?

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Nair hair removal cream. I use it on my butt. It ruined my whole trip.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  I knew Nair, but I was like, does he know what it actually does?

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Cause I, cause my personal trainer, he does it on his legs. He's like, oh, you should do it. And so I did it on my legs and it felt really smooth. So I got carried away and I was like, I'll just do my whole body. And I went to Bali before I went on the flight.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  You nared your whole body?

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, did my whole body, chest, everything. And I get on the flight and my whole bum looks like hundreds and thousands. Or is that what you guys call them here? Like sprinkles?

• 55:58Speaker 00

  Hundreds and thousands?

• 56:00Speaker 02

  That's what we, that's what we call them. Shit.

• 56:01Speaker 00

  On your bum, it looks like sprinkles?

• 56:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was like on a scooter everywhere and my, like, I'm like, this is fucking horrible.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  You nared your ass?

• 56:07Speaker 02

  And it's still bad. Like, it still hasn't recovered and it's been months. It's been since May.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  You put Nair on your ass?

• 56:13Speaker 02

  I put it on the hole. And I was like, I want to make sure I'm, I was going to see my girl. So I was like-

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Wait, you put Nair on your asshole?

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  And your bum cheeks?

• 56:22Speaker 02

  And my nipples, like everything.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  You can't have that much hair on your ass cheeks.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I just wanted to make sure that-

• 56:28Speaker 00

  You wanted to be really-

• 56:28Speaker 02

  That God forbid I, someone sees me walk around naked that I have a-

• 56:31Speaker 00

  You know, Harry, it doesn't go there. Your asshole?

• 56:35Speaker 02

  But what are these actors doing?

• 56:36Speaker 00

  That's like putting, me putting Nair on my labia.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Why would you do that?

• 56:40Speaker 00

  I, why would you do that?

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Well, I was curious.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  What if I was curious?

• 56:45Speaker 02

  No, but also like, what do these actors do to have smooth asses on these movies? Do I wax it?

• 56:49Speaker 00

  No, you wa, you definitely will wax it, but like-

• 56:51Speaker 02

  This is the problem with young men today is we don't know-

• 56:54Speaker 00

  Let's get into this conversation.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  We don't know how to have smooth, non pimply assholes.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  How do we do that? No one teaches you. I just nared my whole hole, trying to figure it out. Then I've shaved it, doesn't work. But then, so I do like the, the actual buzzer and that's what works on my legs. But like, it's still not silky smooth. I need this bussy. I need, I need this bussy silky smooth. My little man kitty, you know? I need my man cat, nice and smooth. You never know who's going to see it.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  This bussy?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  This bussy. I always get worried that like-

• 57:29Speaker 00

  Is that a stain?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  You know what, you know what a bussy is?

• 57:32Speaker 00

  Wait, do people call it a bussy?

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Boy pussy. Bussy. Or the jiao bussy is what people call mine. Have you not seen all my stories?

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Who calls it that?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Mason.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  No, this one guy replies to all my stories. Are you crying? This guy replies to my stories. Every confession card, he said, is the jiao bussy off the market? And I'm like, yo, Mason, I don't know you. Like, don't speak about my pussy like that.

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Or you make it so available.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, true. I don't know.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  The jiao bussy?

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, jiao bussy. It's a thing. Everyone's doing it. But as-

• 58:02Speaker 00

  It's the jousy bush. The jousy?

• 58:06Speaker 02

  The juicy. Here's the thing, is I always get worried that, God forbid, after we have sex or something, like I have to bend over and pick something up.

• 58:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  It's like, and then-

• 58:14Speaker 00

  You just want to be every angle looking good.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, just in case. Like, you never know who's going to see you with your pants on. No bum fluff. But ladies, if you have it, we'll nibble on it. The fuck is that? A wax strip?

• 58:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. What's that?

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Oh, nose pore.

• 58:27Speaker 00

  I couldn't even get this one. When my team printed this out, I was like, what is that again?

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you got pregnancy brain right now. No? Is that not a thing?

• 58:35Speaker 00

  What?

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  What did you just say?

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Is that not a thing, pregnancy brain?

• 58:40Speaker 00

  It is, but you're not allowed to say it. I can only say it.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I'm like-

• 58:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, I do have pregnancy brain.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  You knew this immediately.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  This is my job.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  Why is it your job?

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Cause I, I had 20 fiancés. I need to make, this is part of my preparation, is I had Georgia in the room going, what is this? What is this?

• 58:58Speaker 00

  What is this? So when she comes in and she's wearing one of these, you wouldn't be scared?

• 59:02Speaker 02

  No, I'd be like, give me one. Cause I got a lot of pores right now.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  You can do it together.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  I've been going through it.

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Okay. So then we're going to cruise through the rest of this.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Um, face roller.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  Face roller.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right. LED red mask, red face mask.

• 59:13Speaker 00

  Do you have one?

• 59:14Speaker 02

  No. They should send me one though. They should do a brand deal, Sephora.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  Harry!

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Washer.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I hate this girls.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Is that right?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  That's it. Yes.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Guys.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  Harry.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Think about it, like make it harder.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  I'm so impressed. Kevin Hart couldn't get any of it.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Really?

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Nothing.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  I'm smarter than Kevin Hart?

• 59:36Speaker 00

  Maybe, uh, I don't know.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  He's got way more money.

• 59:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's more focused on other things than learning about all the

• 59:43Speaker 02

  He has, he actually has a career.

• 59:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  We're transitioning back. Okay, New Zealand.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  You go home during the show and I know that you were very anxious because when you were going home to New Zealand, you were down to the final two women.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  And so there was a lot emotionally riding on this. Can you just explain what was going on and what was going through your head?

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  I think I was at such a hard point um in the whole experience because number one, I'm going back to New Zealand, basically a year on since my dad had died. And then also seeing my sisters and their family, like the last time I saw them was at his deathbed. So I had the heaviness of the reality of that setting in and that my dad's actually dead. Um, and then also the reality of like, holy shit, I have these two incredible people that would love to marry me and I don't know who, who's better or who's better for me. And I, I know in those moments, I was really struggling to figure out what I was doing. And like, is this the

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  right decision? Am I, if I go either way, it's gonna be a great life, no matter what. But then also I was so torn. I remember even once we come back from New Zealand, I was like, I was more upset. I wasn't excited about the idea of getting married. I was more upset about hurting someone. And I think that was the hardest thing is, and usually if you're about to marry someone, like you should know, like I talk, like some of the friends on like The Bachelor and they're like, yeah, I knew from the first day. And I think that was what was fucking me up is because I'm trying to balance this grief where I've never felt before. And then also go, wait, I should know at this point. And I didn't know. Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember you also telling me like, I know I have so, just I'm still grieving and I don't even know if I fully even grieved in a way that, I don't know, like what is grief? And like, how do you know when you, where you are in that process? And you're like, and on top of it, going back, I'm going to feel so many emotions. So then adding in these two women that I'm already so stressed. It was like this beautiful storm of just a lot of emotions for you. And I remember the producers texting me when you guys got there and they were like, oh, wow, he's really in his feels.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember the plane touch. As soon as the plane hit Nelson, New Zealand, tears, I couldn't stop crying. And I really struggled to breathe. And I was like, holy fuck, like, oh, this is real. Like, the thing is, it's kind of like this show when it comes out, it's like, you just have so much anticipation. And then as soon as you get there, it's like, it just releases. And like, I remember being in New Zealand and I'm like, oh my God, wow. And then seeing my sisters and like, fuck, like, it's been a year, so excited to see them being, be in those lot. Like, that was also the hardest thing is, because we'd be driving around Nelson, New Zealand. And a lot of those streets were like, last time I was there was with my dad in the car. Like, we'd drive past McDonald's and I was like,

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  fuck, that was the last place I had McDonald's. And that was with him. And then I was like, oh, we'd drive a little bit past, there's a gas station. I was like, oh, he was cleaning the car window there. So I was, the whole day, I was just like, looking around, because again, don't have my phone. It's like, usually if you're in a car, you're just texting or whatever else. Don't have my phone. I'm sitting there like,

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  Taking it all in.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Taking it all in and then going, holy fuck. I remember um, the two dates that we had. And I looked to the producers, I was like, I, I can't, like, I legitimately cannot do this. Like, I'm trying my best here. And, and I felt like with Danell on our date, like I'm taking away from her experience. Like, she's first time in New Zealand. This is so exciting. And it's meant to be a beautiful date, but I just couldn't, like, I kept shutting down. And I was trying and I remember just like grabbing them. I was like, can I just, I need to be alone. I was like, I wish I came a day early and just sat by myself and processed it. Um, but thankfully, like, they gave me a day to myself. Um, they took me to a beach. Uh, or actually I drove, I remember this beach. And it was the last beach that

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  I went to with my dad. And I remember walking on the beach and I was the only one in jeans and a sweater. And I remember I went sat on this rock. And I just looked around and I was like, oh, wow, this is like, this is happening. This is so crazy. So real. And then the most powerful emotion that I've ever felt in my life, like fully just like dumped. I think it was like the weight of the show, grieving my dad, being like, feeling his presence and his energy and being on that rock. And I remember I was just weeping for so long. I've never weeped like that. I'm like, oh, this is so crazy. Like, that's the best thing about grief is like, it just overwhelms you and your whole body. And I love the feel, like, I loved that I was able to grieve. I was, I loved that I was able

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  to sit there and just feel like I was wailing and carrying on. Um, because it was so special. Because after that, all the pain and like, and the tears and going through it, like, I felt so good.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  I think that's also what I'm really excited for people as they watch this show to experience. Again, it's like, you really were in such a different, you're in a different phase of your life.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  And it's horrific what you had to go through with your dad. And I feel like now knowing you for as long as I've known you, I also think, correct me if I'm wrong, but what also I feel like was coming up for you, Harry, before you left and we were talking is a little bit like, you didn't have this love story you grew up watching between your mom and your dad fully. And so, like you talk about looking at people that you're, you've become close with and you're, you're trying to find people that you want to emulate their relationship or take parts of it, Matt and I, and your friends and all of those people. But I think losing your dad and then also having these two women sitting there in New

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Zealand with you, it must have been so overwhelming to be like, oh my God, like, I, I'm, there's a lot that I'm still grieving just by losing my father. But then I'm also trying to find the love of my life and marry someone. But I'm still trying to figure out what that even looks like for me. Because I didn't exactly have a perfect example of that growing up. And so like, there was a lot interconnected almost.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend it.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I honestly, and I agree. Obviously, they won't see the amount of time that everyone gave you, but I'm happy that you did get some time to yourself to like, grieve and just try to relax a little.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, we hit the lottery with that crew, like, to be honest.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  They were amazing.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know what's really cool? My favorite thing, my favorite thing about the whole show ever was that when we went to New Zealand, they hired so much local crew. And like, for me, I'm like, oh, this is so cool. Because now we get like all these jobs here. But also, some of the guys that were on the crew, I did my first ever dating show with when I was 19.

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  It was all full circle.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember the guy was doing my sound. I was like, why do I know you? And then he's like, bro.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  We worked together like,

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  We worked together.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  So long ago.

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  And I was like, what a nice way to close the loop. So I felt like, it was all like, all these synergies and all these amazing things. But I was like, it was such a beautiful thing. But then also, on that rock, and I know this isn't in the show, but when I was sitting there, though, throughout the whole show and the whole experience, I'm asking for so many signs from my dad and like the bee thing. So like, uh, and I guess to give some color on that is, me and my dad used to bee keep when we were younger. And before he'd passed, I said, I'm gonna get a little bee pendant. And um, to like, every time I think about him, or anytime I see a bee, I'm gonna think about him. Um, obviously, uh, didn't get a bee pendant, but I turned him into a little diamond, which was nice. But um, on the show, I would always see bees around Amber. Like, they'd always pop up, like always. And I remember there was a, I, I think it's in the show, so I'm not ruining

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  anything. Um, but when we're, when we did our first overnight, there was like a bee that flew all the way up to that penthouse and landed. And then even, I actually don't know if I told you this, the first date before we walked into the yacht, um, I was in, in the car with Parisa, my producer. And I'm like, oh, I just need to go to the toilet before we go on the yacht. And I remember walking to this, it was Marina Del Rey, I was walking to the urinal. And I was like, fuck dad, like, I, I don't, I don't know if this is the right decision. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. Like, I swear to God, I said it out loud. Dad, if this is the right decision, show me a sign. And I'm walking the urinal and I swear to God, I'm peeing and I look down, someone put a

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  bee sticker on the urinal. And I was like, okay, this is all good. There was another thing. So then obviously just seeing, I saw bees around Amber's family. I saw bees the next day. When we went to New Zealand, I was on that rock. And, and I, I guess this is the best advice to anyone that's lost someone, is just, you just ask for signs and you will see them. And they will show up, no matter what. And it's so much comfort in that. And then if you think you're crazy, then that's all good. But at least you feel good. But I was on that rock and I was telling my dad, I'm like, dad, I've seen so many bees, but they're everywhere. It's fucking stupid. Like, it's a stupid sign because they're everywhere. So I'm always thinking about you. It's like, show me something I haven't seen in, since I was a kid. I need to see a dragonfly, right? Swear to God.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  That, Harry, that is, I love that too, for anyone listening. I agree that has and is experiencing grief, because I agree, everyone I've always talked to is like,

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  Having that sign, it's so comforting and it just makes me so happy because obviously spoiler everyone, but like you chose Amber.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  And so it did end up, you know, working out in the show that you chose this person. I want to talk more about you guys in that relationship.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  Because obviously getting married to someone is one of the biggest decisions that you will ever make in your life. What do you think initially really drew you to each other?

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  You know, I think Amber was in that environment, still so like free and unique. Like it's a very, like for her spirit, very free spirited person, like grew up in Hawaii.

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Very go with the flow energy. And in that environment where there's chaos and there's drama and there's girls yelling at each other, the fact that she was able to keep that was like really incredible and just like a breath of fresh air in a chaotic environment like that.

• 1:10:04Speaker 00

  How do you think that you felt like your relationship as it progressed started to differ from your relationship with other women? Like what made you feel like it was maybe a little bit stronger?

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  We would have so much more fun. You know, we would have those moments where she would open up and tell me about what's going on in her life and make it just so incredibly safe to talk about what was going on mine. And even when we're in New Zealand and I was, I was like, oh, I just need to see Amber because she's been through grief like this before. And she made it just so easy and fun. And that was the coolest thing.

• 1:10:37Speaker 00

  So obviously you were down to Danell and Amber. You had told both women that you loved them, which I know you were like, I never expected to get to a place where I was telling two women I love them. But I think it gives people a lot. I think we're now acclimated to that with reality television that like, we've seen so many people be like, guys, I'm telling you, it's the craziest thing. But like, when you're in these experiences, you actually can be in love with two people.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  When you did choose Amber, what were the main factors that went into that decision?

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  That was the, the most difficult thing because that day before I didn't sleep the night before, like legitimately no sleep. I was so distraught by the idea. So my brain, I love to overthink. So I was panicking about the idea of having to break someone's heart in front of their friends and family. And that's what was really like, that's what really sucked. So it was honestly really difficult like, and my family didn't help either because my sisters loved both of them and they had such a good time. It was, it was tough. Like I remember even up until the, the moment, I'm like, I don't know what's going on. Like there's always, I was always second guessing it, which is not fair on Amber either.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  Like even in the like, yeah, at those final, like it's not fair on anyone to, to be second guessed.

• 1:11:57Speaker 00

  No, but I think this is good as people will watch, obviously what things and fallout and all of this are going to come. I think it's good. No, but I, I think it's good to hear.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Speaker 00

  Your headspace because I, to be honest, like I would hate to hear that if I was Amber or you know, Danell, like I think it, it gives more clarity into where your head was at where like you were so torn and you really weren't fully leaning towards someone at the end of this. No, I don't think it's horrible. I think it's honest. I think, I think, and, and unfortunately I think you have to, you have to be honest. I'd rather you be honest than be like, it was such an easy decision. It was Amber all the way. Like I remember the day before you were like, I literally don't know who to pick. And you were, you were asking understandably, like production, everyone, like what, who do you guys think I should pick? Like you were so in your head, you were like, someone give me feedback.

• 1:12:52Speaker 00

  And, and to everyone's credit, they were like, Harry, this is on you. I remember you were still telling basically just before the wedding, Danell, that you you loved her.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  How did you navigate those lingering feelings when you then went into the wedding with Amber?

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  You know, I, I think a wedding is like heavy enough on a good day, you know? Like there's, there's so much that goes into it with that. And then also having like, hey, like I really love and care about this other person too. It was horrible. Like it wasn't, it was so unfair on both of them. And even myself to a degree, but it's obviously, you know, I was in it.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  But I remember even, I was having the biggest panic attack when they're like, okay, you have to make a decision now and you have to walk into a room and tell one of them.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  I couldn't believe what was going on. Like I was pacing. I'm like, please, like I need, I don't know what to do. Like I'm freaking out. And again, like it's so, so unfair on both of them. And it was, it was hard to be excited about the wedding because I knew that someone was sitting in a hotel room with a broken heart. So that was difficult because I'm meant to be having the happiest moment of my life, but then also being sad because I've just broken someone's heart. But it would have been the same either way. Like if I chose Danell, I would still have been freaking out. It could have been anyone and I still would have been like, because I guess a, a younger version of myself would have just been like, fuck it. All good. Like let's just ride. But like for, for now, especially to go through that and for them to see me at my weakest in New Zealand.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  And then to be like, all right, actually I'm going to give you this feeling is horrible. Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  I remember something that your friends said on the show is they brought up that, you know, you and Amber have very different lifestyles.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  Did you consider that at all, a red flag, not on her part, but just both of your, just as the dynamic and your compatibility when you were going into choosing her?

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  I don't know, to be honest. I think we were, it, it sucks. It was, it's so exciting.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Again, like it could have been like, both of them give two very different lifestyles and two very different lives. So yeah, I don't know. I'm, I didn't even consider it. I was just like, there was already so many thoughts and feelings. Yeah. There's already so much going on in my head.

• 1:15:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it. It's like you're in this filming bubble. And I think honestly, I think that becomes one of the biggest issues when you look at reality television of like, people try so hard to talk about like life outside of this, but it's hard to like, you can try, but then you actually have to go live it. And sometimes it's really hard to make that work.

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  Really hard.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  After filming, you and Amber had to keep your relationship private until the show aired. As a public person, how did that go for you?

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Terrible. We were on Dumeaux and it wasn't me leaking.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  Oh my God, Harry's like, trust me, I would have loved to leak something.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  I was like, why did you text me first?

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  So you didn't leak it to Dumeaux?

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  No, I didn't. You know, it was, it was so frustrating. So we went to, um, we went to Hawaii to see her friends and family. And again, like my brain, you know, you've just married someone and you want to do life. You want to experience everything. You want to go see everything. I remember we were sitting at breakfast in the hotel and someone had taken a photo of the back of her head and my face. And I was like, I was like, oh, we're fucked. Like now we can't do anything. Cause like now they know, God, like thank God they didn't get the front of her face.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Right. Cause you can't spoil the whole show. And I think that's what's really, really hard about reality TV is like, other than Love Island, who's doing it in the moment? And they've got, I can't imagine how many editors they have in a room. Like these shows, you then have to basically not see your partner for a while. And when you do, it has to be in really confined spaces.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  Also trusted spaces too. It's like, when we go to see our friends and family, like, okay, cool. We're like trusted here, but if we go to like a restaurant to pick up a coffee or something, like it'd have to be so brief and so quick. Cause if someone sees me and goes, wait, who's that girl? He's would take a photo and it ends up on a tea page. We're kind of cooked. So when we went to Australia, because I want her to come see my friends and family, but I'm going to be smart about it. I'm going to fly in a few hours early. I'm going to go check in the hotel. She's going to fly in a couple of hours after. I'm going to get a car. So immediately pick her up and then we go to the hotel. So I'm thinking I've got this bulletproof plan. And the next day we're going to drive to my mom's farm, which no one's near, and we're going to be all good. Swear to God, I pick her up from the airport. We're driving back to the hotel.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  A fucking pipe burst in the hotel and the elevators go down. It's like, it was like three, three AM or two AM. So I'm like, oh, no one will see us. I'm already panicking because the Hawaii shit just happened. So I'm panicking that like people are going to see us or people are going to know us. Obviously I'm not as famous as I thought I was because I'm like, guys, where's the paparazzi?

• 1:17:59Speaker 00

  You're like, hello?

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like guys, there was no one waiting at the airport when I got in. I'm Australia, I'm home. But so we get to the hotel and she's like got her bags and stuff. And I was like, can I just take it up the staircase? Like, no, everything's flooding. So I'm like, fuck, what do we do? We go and like hide in a corner and she was obviously exhausted because she just traveled so early and like falls asleep on my lap. Thank God her face was facing this way. Someone walks around the corner. I'm on my phone like this, like exhausted at like fucking three AM, snaps a photo of us, walks away, ends up on some French tea page on Reddit. And I was like, get another quote from Netflix. Like, what are you doing?

• 1:18:37Speaker 00

  Right. And it's like the only thing you want to do when you just, you just got married, you're, you're, you're in love, you know, you're feeling it. And you're like, I just want to like go to a coffee.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  I just want to hang out with my wife.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  Hang out with my wife and I literally can't do that.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:49Speaker 00

  Obviously so much, it's, I feel like every reality show. It's like so much happened in the reality show and then so much has gone down since then.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Speaker 00

  And we are going to see all of it play out on the reunion.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  It, okay.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  I'm fucking scared. You shouldn't be smiling.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  I know you're lucky. I'm not hosting it.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  No, they asked.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  They did ask.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  I'm scared of Alex.

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  Alex doesn't need this.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  I don't need to be doing this. I'm pregnant, but like you'll get cooked. Don't worry. Um, no, but I am excited for you to.

• 1:19:24Speaker 00

  I don't know, go through that process. Is, is there anything you're nervous about? Is there anyone you're nervous to see?

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  You know, I believe that I've had a really good, um, relationship with all the girls, even up until now, like, Danelle, we, she would text me basically every other day, worried about something and wanting to talk through things. Cause, and I explained to the, the girls, like, hey, I am here no matter what. And I said to Danelle, like, you can feel free to speak, however you feel about me. Obviously, like, she was the one at the end who had, like, the most heartbreak. And I'm like, if you want to drag me, all good, fine. I'll always be here. It's all good. No worries at all. And I said to all the other girls, like, no matter what, if you need, I'm here. Like, I know this is like a new scary world for you. And obviously,

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  I've been in it. So that's all good. Um, so I'm not worried about anything. Cause whatever they want to say, or whatever they feel called to say, I would love for them to just do it. And like, let's put it all on the table. That's fine. Obviously, um, and obviously, they're gonna see things on the show, maybe how I talk, or whatever else. Like, maybe that girl at the start that just wanted followers, like, she's probably not gonna appreciate that. But, and maybe that might be her moment to get more followers. So like, if everyone gets what they want, then that's all good. I'm not worried about anything. I'm just more worried about hurting or upsetting people. Cause I'm in such a good place in my life now, and everything's perfect. And I wouldn't want to affect that at all. Um, I just would want that, like, everyone gets what

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  they need out of it. And that we're all good and we can move on and.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  I love this approach. Like, I love how you think this reunion, you're like, and it's gonna be beautiful. And we're gonna love this. And it's gonna be such a good cathartic experience. Meanwhile, I'm like, these women may be coming with pitchforks, and you better buckle up, Mr. Jowsey. Oh, what reunion is calm, chill, cool, calm and collected? Not yours.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:21:26Speaker 00

  Not yours.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:21:28Speaker 00

  Uh huh. I mean.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  I mean, no, no, I am going to be so sat for this reunion. And I will say this as your friend. I remember getting ready for your wedding.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Would she dress like it was a funeral, by the way?

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  I, I was gonna ask if you remember that.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, you fuck.

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  I showed up, uh huh. I showed up to Harry's wedding. And I literally was like, I dressed for a funeral. Because we are basically laying to rest, the fuckboy Harry. And we are, it's a rebirth essentially. And I really do genuinely stand by this when I say, when I got ready that morning, after watching you go through this whole process, I really knew that, and I'm not, I, both women were such incredible choices, no matter who you chose. What I knew before even wedding or no wedding, I knew that you had changed. And I could feel it. I think this process, you went in, and that's why I thought it was so important to talk about it in the

• 1:22:29Speaker 00

  beginning, Harry, like, you genuinely went into this experience, and you wanted to be better. You wanted to change. You wanted to find your person. Like, you were pouring into yourself in a way that you never had before. And you were also so open, and you wanted it. And watching you go through the pain and the heartbreak, and grieving your father, and looking at these relationships in a different way, taking accountability, messing up along the way, being in the back and crying to producers. Like, we saw a side of you that I was like, this is breaking him almost in a way that he's rebuilding himself by the end. And so I showed up for the funeral, because I was like, no matter what happens today, genuinely, who he picks,

• 1:23:10Speaker 00

  if he picks neither of them, truly, I, Matt and I both went, we like, he may not get married today. But he is a different person today than when he went into this experience for the best. And I think that no matter what, that was a win for you, because I do not believe we will ever see the version of you that predated the show. Like, you've just grown. You're a different person now.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:23:34Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  Hopefully.

• 1:23:36Speaker 00

  Harry, now, now let me, now let me, here you go. So I just said all that. So don't let anyone clip that in a couple of months from now and be like, Alex Cooper, you are the biggest clown. He is back to his ways. I'm gonna be like, don't prove me wrong.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  I will do you proud.

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  Harry Jowsey, I can't wait for the reunion. I wish you the best of luck. And I don't know.

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Speaker 00

  Get out of my studio.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Okay, goodbye.

• 1:24:04Speaker 00

  Love you.

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

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