The IRA Heiress | Most Wanted | 2

Rose and her IRA comrades plan The Troubles’ first aerial bombing. But she’s having a hard time getting the others to trust her. With her plummy English accent, she’s the last person you’d expect to join the IRA. But that’s what makes her the perfect weapon. Do you have a suggestion for a scandal you would like us to cover? Or perhaps you have a question you would like to ask our hosts? Email us at [email protected] Listen to British Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/british-scandal/ now. EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ nordvpn.com/scandal http://nordvpn.com/scandal Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alice Levine?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:13Alice Levine?

  Matt, so good to see you.

• 0:14Matt Forde?

  You too.

• 0:15Alice Levine?

  I noticed that you've brought a friend with you. Who's that over there?

• 0:19Matt Forde?

  Oh, that's my brother.

• 0:21Alice Levine?

  Your brother?

• 0:22Matt Forde?

  Yep, he's here on work experience.

• 0:25Alice Levine?

  No offence, he's a lot, a lot younger than you. Oh, like, maybe 20 years younger than you.

• 0:30Matt Forde?

  Yeah, there's a bit of a gap, but I think there are in some families.

• 0:33Alice Levine?

  Yeah.

• 0:33Matt Forde?

  Mum and dad obviously just decided they were ready again.

• 0:37Alice Levine?

  I don't know why, I just feel a bit unnerved by him. It's an unusual outfit, isn't it? Like, what's with the dog tags?

• 0:43Matt Forde?

  That's just a fashion thing. Have you never been to All Saints?

• 0:46Alice Levine?

  Yeah, good point. I think it's maybe because he's teamed it with the balaclava. What's that about?

• 0:52Matt Forde?

  Oh, his face gets cold. He likes to wrap up warm. He's a sensible young man.

• 0:57Alice Levine?

  Yeah, he's really not breaking eye contact. And I suppose the thing that's really just making me feel edgy, I guess is the word, is he does have quite a big gun, doesn't he?

• 1:07Matt Forde?

  Yeah, to be honest, I didn't know he was going to bring that. Alice? Call the fellas.

• 1:18Alice Levine?

  24th of February 1974, County Donegal. Rose Dugdale peers out through the paisley curtains of the secluded wood cabin. She takes in the rolling Irish countryside, glances down the empty lane, then pads across the bare floorboards to the front door. She's been told to stay put, but she needs a few final provisions to tide her over. She grabs an old bicycle and heads off down the rutted track towards the village. She pins back her unkempt blonde hair as she props the bike against a lamp post, slides past middle-aged housewives chatting in the entrance of the village shop.

• 1:59Alice Levine?

  She can't stay long. She quickly stuffs a basket with milk, eggs and bread, glances anxiously over her shoulder as the entrance bell rings, steps forward as the shopkeeper looks up. While asking for cigarettes, she glances down at the newspaper on the counter and stares in disbelief.

• 2:21Alice Levine?

  Her name and photo are on the front cover. Twenty. She flicks her eyes up to the shopkeeper. Sorry? Cigarettes, twenty, Marlboro.

• 2:34Matt Forde?

  Yes, and all the copies of that newspaper, please. And do you have, um, you sell matches and lighter fluid?

• 2:41Alice Levine?

  She nods, tries to fix a smile as she glances down again. She desperately tries to scan the article without drawing attention to the paper, but she can't make it out. You're on holiday, then? She feels a bead of sweat trickle down her forehead as she throws her change on the counter. The shopkeeper starts to look at her in concern. I'm sorry, I, I, I just... She places the basket on top of the newspaper, turns to leave. But as she does, she comes face to face with the peaked cap and dark green tunic of the local police. She tastes acid in her mouth as she slips her hand into her pocket. She grips her cabin keys. She can do this.

• 3:25Alice Levine?

  She tightens her grip, gives the shopkeeper one last glance as she imagines the scar the keys will leave if she punches them into the constable's throat. She visualizes him falling to the ground as she fixes her spot and starts to whip her hand out. Ma'am, you've left your shop in? She freezes, stares at him in confusion, immediately releases the keys. That, thank you, officer.

• 3:52Matt Forde?

  That is a life lesson right there. Before you think of puncturing anyone's windpipe with your keys, let them speak first and just see what they're all about.

• 4:02Alice Levine?

  Obviously not common assault or attempted murder, but do you sometimes have those daydreams, you know, when somebody's got their bags on the seat on the train and you think, the things that I would do? And then they move their bag and it just sort of dissipates?

• 4:15Matt Forde?

  Oh, yeah. I think having daily violent fantasies about what you would do with firearms is just a normal part of life.

• 4:21Alice Levine?

  I think that's how you get through it. She grabs the basket and races out of the shop, snatches a copy of the paper from the local newsstand on the street and scans the front page in horror.

• 4:33Alice Levine?

  She feels the air knocked out of her. It's not just her name, it's a full profile on her. Her own wide-eyed face staring back at her from a British broadsheet. Her upbringing in Devon, her friends, her family. And at the top of it all, the headline that runs chills down her spine. Rose Dugdale, Britain's Most Wanted Woman.

• 5:09Speaker 02

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• 5:37Speaker 03

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• 6:08Alice Levine?

  From Wondry, I'm Alice Levine.

• 6:10Matt Forde?

  And I'm Matt Ford.

• 6:11Alice Levine?

  And this is British Scandal.

• 6:23Alice Levine?

  Okay, Matt, what do you think of Rose Dugdale at this point? Ideological or easily influenced?

• 6:30Matt Forde?

  Well, I understand why she feels guilty, given her immense privilege. And she did a lot of good with her father's money as a philanthropist in Tottenham, helping the most disadvantaged people in society. So she's genuinely got an ideological drive. I have some sympathy for her being seduced by handsome trade unionists with lovely mustaches. But I think she's gone too far because robbing from her parents, ransacking them...

• 6:56Matt Forde?

  Trashing their house in the way that she did is definitely crossing a line.

• 7:00Alice Levine?

  So you'd like to say here and now that you would never steal from your parents?

• 7:04Matt Forde?

  Well, it depends what you mean by steal. One Easter, my mum had got her then boyfriend an Easter egg and she'd hidden it in the wardrobe in my sister's bedroom. And every day we would peel the foil away and eat a bit of the chocolate, but leave the foil in place on the embossed front so that on Easter Sunday, the poor man was just given an empty box. It felt like a victimless crime at the time. In my defence, it was food and I had a right to eat it.

• 7:31Alice Levine?

  And to be clear, you weren't stealing that dairy milk and putting it in the hands of the IRA?

• 7:35Matt Forde?

  Ah, well, as we've established, they are very charismatic men and they do have fantastic moustaches.

• 7:44Alice Levine?

  Okay, and bringing it back to Rose, where do you imagine that she might go next?

• 7:48Matt Forde?

  Well, I'd like to think that she develops at least some loyalty for her homeland and swears allegiance to the Queen, but I'm guessing from the look on your face that that is not likely.

• 7:58Alice Levine?

  Perceptive, I've always said it. This is episode two, Most Wanted.

• 8:06Alice Levine?

  December 1973, County Donegal, Ireland. Rose Dugdale's shoulders sink with disappointment as she takes in the sodden farmer's field. The ground has been churned up by army boots and at the end stands a single dishevelled caravan. She's secured a place at an IRA training camp through one of Wally's contacts, but this is not the slick military operation Rose was expecting.

• 8:32Matt Forde?

  Why was she expecting a slick military operation from a terror group in 1973?

• 8:38Alice Levine?

  Do you think she was expecting more of a sort of gladiator assault course for training?

• 8:42Matt Forde?

  She'd be like, I think, either I was expecting full on military barracks, or at least the Krypton Factor, like where's the line at the end that you zip down?

• 8:50Alice Levine?

  Just a sort of, not professional, but maybe semi-professional go ape?

• 8:54Matt Forde?

  Exactly. This is just a bad park. You couldn't even have a kick around on that.

• 8:59Alice Levine?

  Tightening her grip on her army surplus rucksack, she begins squelching through the mud.

• 9:05Alice Levine?

  Since receiving her suspended sentence, life in England has become impossible. Wally is behind bars. Her Oxford friends want nothing to do with her. She can't face her family, not after they called the police on her.

• 9:19Matt Forde?

  I mean, that's obviously her perspective. From their point of view, they'd say, "My daughter stole all my money and ransacked my house." I think they were fair in calling the cops.

• 9:29Alice Levine?

  Tomatoes, tomatoes. So she's come to Ireland to take a real, active role in the struggle for Irish liberation. She hesitates at the caravan's metal step, takes a deep breath, then pushes open the thin plastic door. Her eyes dart to the group of men in rough woolen jumpers squeezed around the formica table.

• 9:53Matt Forde?

  Hipsters, literally, we're gonna sing sea shanties.

• 9:56Alice Levine?

  A sagging mattress leans up against one wall. The men fall silent. She knows they all think she's just Wally's floozy, but she's determined to prove them wrong.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Hello, I'm...

• 10:14Alice Levine?

  She feels herself trail off as the group leader gets to his feet. He's tall, handsome, and wiry, with intense blue eyes and a broad moustache. Her heart rate quickens as she recognizes him as Eddie Gallagher, fresh out of prison for blowing up a garage in Donegal.

• 10:33Matt Forde?

  Oh, he's tall, he's got blue eyes, he blew up a garage in Donegal. I mean, it's all upsides with this guy.

• 10:39Alice Levine?

  In the modern dating culture, to be fair, that is a triple threat.

• 10:42Matt Forde?

  A triple threat to national security.

• 10:44Alice Levine?

  Eddie Gallagher. But Eddie cuts her off dismissively.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Get me a cup of tea, will you, love?

• 10:52Alice Levine?

  Rose blinks in confusion. Here's a few of the men chuckle.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Yes, of course. Can I get anybody else?

• 11:00Alice Levine?

  A few of the other men nod offhandedly. Sex teas. As Rose makes for the urn, she hears a smattering of laughter behind her.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  Yes, of course, anybody for sandwiches and scones.

• 11:12Alice Levine?

  Where the hell did they find her?

• 11:17Alice Levine?

  Rose slams a mug down hard on the worktop. She bites her lip to stop herself crying. She sacrificed her family, her friends. She's given tens of thousands to the Irish cause. She might not be a proven soldier, but she's sure she's given a damn lot more than half the boys sitting around that table. She's about to speak her mind when she realises the laughter has subsided. She stares at the kettle as it boils, strains to follow the thick, hushed accents. "It's too dangerous on the roads." Wally had told her about a plan to attack a police station. She takes a breath, turns around. "What about an aerial attack? We could hijack a helicopter."

• 12:02Alice Levine?

  She feels the room fall silent. Eddie shakes his head. "We'd never get a chopper after the prison break. It's impossible." The helicopter escape is what gave Rose the idea. It was genius. She meets his gaze, determined. "Impossible, perhaps, for an Irishman." She feels Eddie look up at her, wary. "You think you can sort us one out?" Rose forces a confident smile. Her chest is pounding. "Unless, of course, you're convinced I'm a British spy." Eddie thinks for a moment before holding out a rough, calloused hand. She takes it.

• 12:47Alice Levine?

  She might not have the strength and experience of the men, but she's determined to show them she's got other skills. And to do that, she's got to find a helicopter.

• 13:02Matt Forde?

  "I've promised the IRA a helicopter. Could anyone help me out? I'd just go on Gumtree, I guess."

• 13:07Alice Levine?

  "This is when it really pays to be posh. Because I know a grand total of zero people with helicopters. But if you're very, very posh, you probably... Everybody you know has a helicopter."

• 13:16Matt Forde?

  "It's just how posh people get about."

• 13:21Alice Levine?

  22 January 1974. MacFadden's Hotel, Waterhawk, County Donegal. Rose blots her deep red lipstick with a tissue and brushes mascara across her lashes. Then takes in her reflection in the hotel toilets. She glances down at her nails, crusted with dirt from the IRA training camp. She turns on the hot tap and scrubs at them hard, mutters her cover story one more time under her breath. I'm Stephanie Grant, journalist, The Guardian. She takes a final, deep breath, inhales the soft lavender scent of the bathroom, and walks back out into the bustle of the bar.

• 14:06Alice Levine?

  Rose feels Eddie watching from a table in the corner. She shoots him a reassuring smile, even if, right now, she feels anything but confident. She knows this isn't going to be easy. Eddie was right. Since the prison hijack, security is tight. It's been hard enough to persuade a pilot to meet her.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Stephanie Grant.

• 14:31Alice Levine?

  It takes Rose a second to realise the man is talking to her. Quickly composing herself, she perfects a warm smile and turns to greet Captain James Hobday. He's older than she expected, around her father's age. His dark, receding hair is neatly brill creamed, and he wears a crisp white shirt and tie. That's me, Stephanie. He pulls up a barstool next to her.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  I must say, I'm relieved to meet a fellow Brit in the wilds of Donegal.

• 15:00Alice Levine?

  I understand you're an ex RAF man, Captain? The man nods proudly.

• 15:05Speaker 05

  Eighteen years.

• 15:07Alice Levine?

  My father was in the military. She's surprised that her own mention of her father causes her to momentarily well up. She's struggled to sleep since she confronted him in court. She's been haunted by his pleading face, his vulnerability.

• 15:23Alice Levine?

  She didn't realise it was still so raw. She tells herself to get a grip. It would be such an honour to have an accomplished pilot to take on this trip. But Captain Hobday cuts her off awkwardly.

• 15:35Matt Forde?

  Like I explained on the phone, we're not really doing leisure flights.

• 15:40Alice Levine?

  Rose fixes a confident smile. Oh, but this isn't a leisure flight. I'm writing an article about Tory Island.

• 15:48Matt Forde?

  Is that a tabloid phrase to do with the Conservative Party?

• 15:52Alice Levine?

  Yeah, where would Tory Island be?

• 15:54Matt Forde?

  The Cayman Islands, probably. I'm picturing somewhere nice.

• 15:58Alice Levine?

  But sadly, in this case, no, this is in fact a real place off the north west coast of Ireland.

• 16:02Matt Forde?

  Yes, that makes sense because the word Tory is an insult that their opponents, the Whigs, used to call them in the House of Commons, and it's Irish for outlaw. So this is Outlaw Island.

• 16:14Alice Levine?

  Love this info. Love these tidbits.

• 16:17Matt Forde?

  It's basically like Smuggler's Cove or something you would get on a Disneyland ride. Let's go to Outlaw Island.

• 16:23Alice Levine?

  This is the kind of gem that brings listeners back episode after episode, series after series.

• 16:32Matt Forde?

  It's the sound design, it's the accents, it's...

• 16:36Alice Levine?

  The repeatable fact that you can tell someone down the pub.

• 16:40Alice Levine?

  Rose feigns surprise. She knows Captain Hobday runs tours on the island. Our readers would so love to see another side of Ireland. But Captain Hobday gets apologetically to his feet.

• 16:53Matt Forde?

  I shouldn't have come. Sorry, I, I really wish I could help.

• 16:56Alice Levine?

  Panic knots in Rose's chest. She reaches out to stop him. Please, I've come all this way. To tell you the truth, I'm worried what my editor will say if I come back without a story. He couldn't do me a favour as a fellow Brit. Captain Hobday's expression softens slightly.

• 17:15Matt Forde?

  Look, maybe, given the circumstances, I could make some calls. No, no promises, though.

• 17:22Alice Levine?

  Rose's relief is genuine. She throws her arms around him. Her eyes flick across the room to Eddie. She hesitates. There is one more thing. I've got a friend I'd like to bring along, a photographer. The captain smiles.

• 17:41Matt Forde?

  As long as your friend is as charming as you.

• 17:45Alice Levine?

  As Captain Hobday pays the drinks bill, Rose turns towards Eddie, eyes shining. She's going to make herself an indispensable part of this operation if it's the last thing she does, and prove to all the boys what Rose Dugdale is really capable of.

• 18:10Alice Levine?

  23rd of January 1973, McFadden's Hotel, Garter Hawk, County Donegal. Eddie Gallagher trudges across the hotel helipad towards his van, running an agitated hand through his curly hair. Rose follows on behind. He can feel her watching him with a bemused expression. But it's all arranged. The helicopter will collect us here in 24 hours. He cuts her off impatiently. Christ, look around! Rose might have found them a helicopter, but that isn't going to solve the explosives problem. The plan is to blow up Strabane Police Station. But that means getting five bombs on the chopper without being seen.

• 18:53Alice Levine?

  And the helipad is surrounded by people. Guests come and go. Tourists watch from hotel rooms. It's too public! Rose wrings her hands. But we could disguise them, put them in bags! Her eyes shine excitedly. A camera bag. In my cover story, I said- Eddie emits a harsh laugh. You think a bag will hold this lot? He unlocks the battered van and pulls at the rusted door.

• 19:26Alice Levine?

  Inside are five dark metal canisters, spewing wire and mesh. He sees Rose next to him, staring. Here's her breathing quicken.

• 19:37Alice Levine?

  There must be a hundred pounds of explosives. He watches her closely. He knows she's never seen anything like this before. He's waiting for her to run, decide actually the IRA life is not for her. I know what we'll do. We'll hide the bombs, somewhere safe. Then we tell the pilot to make a stop en route to the police station.

• 19:58Alice Levine?

  Eddie looks at Rose's steely eyes, her fixed, thin smile. He's impressed. Very good rules. Now we've just got to figure out where.

• 20:14Alice Levine?

  Two hours later, Eddie switches off his headlights and strains through the pitch blackness to make out the rough country track ahead. The imposing outline of Ards Abbey comes into view.

• 20:27Matt Forde?

  An abbey, so they're going to hide explosives in a house of God.

• 20:31Alice Levine?

  A working friary, Ards Abbey, so some advantages, some disadvantages.

• 20:36Matt Forde?

  You can hide stuff, they've taken a vow of silence, job's a good'un.

• 20:41Alice Levine?

  Next to him, Rose looks anxiously about her. She pulls at the sleeve of her parka. Eddie kills the engine and opens the van doors. The explosives have been crammed into milk churns so they won't look out of place in the abbey's barn. He hisses at Rose. You gonna give me a hand then? Carefully, they lower the churn out of the van. Its base scrapes against the concrete. Suddenly, torchlight flashes across the courtyard. Eddie freezes. Footsteps head straight towards them. He ducks down, his heart racing.

• 21:23Alice Levine?

  But to his horror, Rose steps out into the torch's beam. Hello, so sorry, have I disturbed you? I feel like such an idiot. I've gone and got myself terribly lost. I don't suppose you have a map inside? Eddie strains to make out the silhouette of an elderly friar. His face is kindly. Let me check, child.

• 21:45Matt Forde?

  Alice, I have to say, you are a very convincing friar.

• 21:49Alice Levine?

  Are you just going a long way round saying I should take a vow of silence?

• 21:54Matt Forde?

  Well, that obviously would be a consequence. What I mean is, just in those four words, you channeled holiness so naturally. Maybe you are his representative on earth.

• 22:06Alice Levine?

  Bless you.

• 22:07Matt Forde?

  Oh my God.

• 22:09Alice Levine?

  He sees Rose glance over her shoulder and give him a smile.

• 22:16Alice Levine?

  The footsteps subside. Eddie takes a deep relieved breath, wipes his brow, and starts unloading the remaining milk churns into the barn. He has to admit, he's impressed with Rose's ability to think on the spot. As he watches her silhouette disappear into the abbey, he thinks perhaps he's underestimated Rose Dugdale. In fact, he's even starting to like her.

• 22:47Alice Levine?

  The following day, Garter Hawk, County Donegal, 10am. Rose glances at her watch as she steps out of the hotel entrance towards the roar of the helicopter engine. Acid rises in her throat. Her face is drawn and her eyes feel heavy. She tries to take a deep breath and calmly run through the plan in her head one more time, but she can't think over the howl of the rotor blades. Captain Hobday jumps from the cabin waving. Rose fashions a smile. Her throat stings as she tries to shout over the noise.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  Stephanie Grant!

• 23:24Alice Levine?

  He beams.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  Of course! I remember!

• 23:28Alice Levine?

  But to her horror, Rose sees his smile drop. She whirls round. Behind her, Eddie is flanked by two scruffy-looking teens from the IRA training camp. She throws Eddie a look. He never said he was bringing backup. Captain Hobday's eyes remain fixed on the pair.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  You said one friend!

• 23:50Alice Levine?

  Rose interjects quickly, trying to keep her voice light.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  That's right! My photographers!

• 23:56Alice Levine?

  The minute the words leave her mouth, she cringes, realising how unconvincing she sounds.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  Well, well, the younger lads. They're local boys, work experience. I'm so sorry, how rude of me not to mention! Captain, I feel awful! You know when I told the office about the helicopter? They practically begged!

• 24:17Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday places a gentle hand on her arm.

• 24:19Speaker 05

  Not to worry, the more the merrier.

• 24:22Alice Levine?

  She's about to relax, when he adds...

• 24:25Speaker 05

  But I was about to say, the helicopter needs a final checkover, so I'm going to have to speak with the engineer.

• 24:32Alice Levine?

  Rose's jaw tightens. A delay? How long? She glances again at her watch. She knows they need to collect the bombs in an hour, to be sure of avoiding nightfall.

• 24:44Speaker 05

  I'll be as quick as I can.

• 24:47Alice Levine?

  Heading back to the hotel, Rose and Eddie exchange anxious glances. He's on to us, I know he is. But Eddie's expression remains calm. He takes her hand, gives it a squeeze. Breathe, sweetheart.

• 25:02Alice Levine?

  Half an hour later, Captain Hobday shuffles over to them.

• 25:05Speaker 05

  We're good to go.

• 25:08Alice Levine?

  Rose runs quick calculations in her head. 11am, they've got just over four hours until darkness starts to draw in. It's enough time, just, but they'll have to act quickly.

• 25:23Alice Levine?

  The helicopter lifts gingerly off the ground, the rotor wind sending ripples across the lawn. Rose swallows. As the engine roars, she feels a rush of anxiety. And something else, adrenaline. She's really doing this. Breathe, she tells herself, breathe. She trains her eyes on the altimeter.

• 25:52Alice Levine?

  She knows Eddie plans to jump the pilot at 150 metres. 75, 100, 125.

• 26:04Alice Levine?

  A lump rises in her throat. 150. She waits, expecting Eddie to leap up. But instead, she feels something jab her hard in the back. She turns, her eyes widen. Eddie's holding out a pistol to her. She stares at him, trying to work out what he wants from her. He leans in, hisses.

• 26:32Alice Levine?

  I need you to take care of him.

• 26:36Matt Forde?

  Right, sorry, five minutes ago you just wanted a cup of tea. Now you're asking me to knock out a pilot.

• 26:41Alice Levine?

  I did the fundraising. I got the helicopter. I can't do everything, guys. I've got burnout, okay? I don't feel supported from above.

• 26:49Matt Forde?

  I'm having to manage upwards. And that is exhausting.

• 26:54Alice Levine?

  Rose shakes her head hurriedly. She's never even held a gun before. But Eddie is insistent. Come on, Rose. Don't let me down. You wanna be a soldier? This is your moment. She feels Eddie push the gun into her hand. You've got this. He gives her a wink. She feels the cold, heavy metal in her hand. As her fingers clasp the grip. Her index finger tightening on the trigger. She glances at Eddie one final time. He gives her the smallest of nods. She steadies her legs as she slips out of her seatbelt. Starts to shuffle towards the front of the cabin. Slowly raises the gun. And fixes it on the back of Captain Hobday's head.

• 27:47Speaker 06

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• 28:17Speaker 07

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:42Alice Levine?

  Seconds later, 24th of January 1974, County Donegal. Captain Hobday shifts his attention from the windshield to Stephanie Grant. She's waving at him, trying to say something. Apologetic, he lowers his headset, smiling.

• 29:00Matt Forde?

  Sorry, my dear, I didn't catch that.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  I said, "This is a hijack."

• 29:05Matt Forde?

  No, I'm not Jack, I'm Captain Hobday. Say hi to Jack later.

• 29:10Alice Levine?

  He stares at her in confusion. He feels the cold jab of metal in his side. He swallows, grips the helicopter controls tight, but his hands are trembling.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  I said, "This is a hijack."

• 29:23Alice Levine?

  He looks again in disbelief at the gun in her hand.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Take us to Aards Abbey.

• 29:30Alice Levine?

  His eyes dart the photograph of his wife, blue-tacked to the dashboard. Him standing by her side, in his RAF uniform.

• 29:39Alice Levine?

  He glances again at Stephanie's reflection in the cargo mirror. The three burly men behind her.

• 29:46Alice Levine?

  He's fought in Korea, a man. How could he be so stupid?

• 29:52Speaker 04

  She said, "Aards Abbey."

• 29:55Alice Levine?

  He feels spit on the back of his neck as one of the men grips his chair.

• 29:59Matt Forde?

  The Friary?

• 30:02Alice Levine?

  He can't think what might be there. He sees Stephanie give a small nod. He knows he has to buy himself some time.

• 30:13Alice Levine?

  He feels a determination take hold as he adjusts the controls, directs the helicopter to Aards Abbey, and begins the painfully slow descent.

• 30:30Alice Levine?

  His mind is still racing 20 minutes later as he eases off the throttle and brings the chopper into land. The men are throwing open the door before the helicopter is safely on the ground.

• 30:44Alice Levine?

  He feels the breeze on his face.

• 30:47Alice Levine?

  His eyes flick to the open door. The grassy field beyond. The friary in the distance.

• 30:55Alice Levine?

  If he can just get their attention. He turns to Stephanie. Is it these men? Are they pressuring you? She refuses to meet his gaze. Instead, she snaps back. It's men like you. Military men. Occupying lands that don't belong to you. Killing innocent civilians. Battering them on their own streets because they asked for equal rights. He's about to hit back. When the cargo doors smash open. He turns in confusion as the three men heave a number of large metal objects inside. He does a double take. Milk churns.

• 31:36Alice Levine?

  Then his blood runs cold. He takes in the tangle of wires around the lid. The mesh. The fuse. I refuse to. His head snaps forward as he's struck by one of the men. He tastes iron in his mouth. Go to Strabane Police Station. Captain Hobday turns and stares at him. The police station? He can't. He won't. He turns desperately to Stephanie. Please, these are innocent. But he sees something hardened in her eyes. She jabs her gun deeper into his gut. Go.

• 32:14Alice Levine?

  His mind races as the helicopter lifts off the ground. He has to stop this madness. He looks down at his controls. Until his eyes settle on the altimeter. And a plan begins to form.

• 32:30Matt Forde?

  I mean, this is where they've perhaps underestimated him. He is a military man. He's served abroad. He will be a little bit wily.

• 32:38Alice Levine?

  This is the problem, isn't it? When you're hijacking anything, I would say. If you don't have any personal knowledge of the workings of that vehicle.

• 32:46Matt Forde?

  Yeah, and you've been there.

• 32:47Alice Levine?

  And I am speaking from experience. It's why I do so little hijacking now.

• 32:55Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, Rose crouches at the back of the aircraft, watching closely as Eddie shows her how to connect the fuse. She pulls the wire from its casing and starts to twist its end when Eddie reaches across.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  No, like this!

• 33:11Alice Levine?

  His cool hands take hers, gently guide her fingers. She feels suddenly self-conscious. Careful, or I might start thinking you have an ulterior motive. Would that be so bad?

• 33:26Matt Forde?

  This is the terrorist version of Patrick Swayze in Ghost, or someone showing someone how to take a pool shot or a golf swing.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  You're so right. This is the seduction technique.

• 33:40Alice Levine?

  No, I'll show you where the wire goes.

• 33:43Matt Forde?

  Oh no, that is a gun in your pocket.

• 33:46Alice Levine?

  She looks up at him in surprise, but then her hand slips. She stumbles. The milk churn lurches forward. Eddie reaches out to steady it.

• 33:56Speaker 04

  Fuck! Fuck!

• 33:58Matt Forde?

  What now?

• 34:00Alice Levine?

  Eddie! Rose stares at him, confused, tries to catch her breath,

• 34:07Alice Levine?

  but the helicopter shudders again, then plummets like it's falling out of the sky.

• 34:15Alice Levine?

  She twists her head, looks towards the cockpit. Hobday is hunched over the controls. Eddie shouts to him.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  What the fuck?

• 34:25Alice Levine?

  The thunderous engine swallows his voice. He turns to Rose, eyes wide.

• 34:31Speaker 04

  Find out what the fuck is going on!

• 34:35Alice Levine?

  Rose pulls herself to her feet and stumbles across the cabin. She leans forward, stares in horror at the flashing lights on the control board. The aircraft is losing altitude.

• 34:46Speaker 04

  What is it?

• 34:48Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday's face is grey.

• 34:50Speaker 04

  It's the weight! You've got to throw some of those churns out!

• 34:54Alice Levine?

  Rose feels the helicopter lurch to the left. She grips the cold metal of the railing above her as the chopper drops out of the clouds and the fields reappear below.

• 35:06Alice Levine?

  She stares at the pilot's hands gripping the control stick, his feet fixed to the pedals. Rose checks her watch. They've got at least 20 minutes until they reach Strabane. She starts to shout back to Eddie when the chopper tilts again.

• 35:23Alice Levine?

  Rose feels the wind knocked out of her as she falls onto the cold floor. She gets to her feet and makes a decision.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  We've got to lose weight.

• 35:33Matt Forde?

  Look, I'm all for being healthy, but not right now, Rose.

• 35:38Alice Levine?

  She drags the door open. Air rushes into the cabin.

• 35:42Speaker 04

  Rose, no!

• 35:43Alice Levine?

  But she snaps back.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  If we go down, we'll all end up dead. Just throw down one churn, for god's sake!

• 35:50Alice Levine?

  Eddie shoots her a mistrustful look. But he rolls one of the milk churns around the backseat and hurls it out of the gaping door.

• 36:00Alice Levine?

  The milk churn clatters into a river below. Rose is about to take a breath when the helicopter jolts again. Captain Hobday yells over the engine.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  She's still way too heavy. We need to throw out at least two more.

• 36:15Alice Levine?

  Eddie's shaking his head.

• 36:16Speaker 04

  He's having us on!

• 36:18Matt Forde?

  Come on, mate. This guy's served his country. Why would he lie to an Irish terrorist?

• 36:22Alice Levine?

  But Rose looks down. Outside, trees and cars are coming into sharp focus as the ground flies up to meet them.

• 36:30Speaker 04

  At this rate, we won't have any bombs at all!

• 36:33Alice Levine?

  Scowling, Eddie rolls two more of the churns out of the helicopter. Rose glances at her watch as she finally feels the chopper stabilize itself.

• 36:45Alice Levine?

  Fifteen minutes. She's going to keep a close eye on Captain Hobday. They've only got two bombs left. And now, they have to make them count.

• 37:01Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, 24th of January 1974, County Donegal. Captain Hobday swallows as the grey slate roofs and angular church spire of Strabane Town Centre come into view. He knows he's running out of time. He slowly starts to tighten his grip on the cyclic stick and ever so slightly nudge it forward. The helicopter starts to lurch, but before he can redirect the flight path, he feels Stephanie's hand tighten around his. She eyes him narrowly.

• 37:32Speaker 04

  None of that, thank you.

• 37:35Alice Levine?

  He hears a match strike in the cabin. He dares a look behind him. Eddie's face glows in the light from the fuse as a sharp, acrid smell fills the cabin. Hobday feels his cheeks burn. Sweat runs down his forehead.

• 37:52Speaker 04

  The police station, there!

• 37:55Alice Levine?

  He hears Eddie swing the helicopter's door open.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  Now hover!

• 37:59Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday looks down, at the dog walkers strolling across the country park, the shoppers bustling down the market street, the packed police station car park. He can't do this. He can't.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  I said fucking hover!

• 38:15Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday slams his foot hard on the pedals, and accelerates past the police station. Stephanie is on her feet, screaming in his face.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  What the fuck are you doing?

• 38:26Alice Levine?

  We're right over a primary school! One hand on the controls, he tries to reach over and close the door. Eddie wrestles the handle from him, snarls.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Well go fucking back then!

• 38:38Alice Levine?

  There's no time! Hobday throws Stephanie a desperate look, her face grim.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  He's right! It'll blow us all up!

• 38:47Matt Forde?

  Yeah, because they've already lit the fuse.

• 38:49Alice Levine?

  Oh my god. Eddie stares at her, furious. A strip of blue river comes into view. Hobday watches him hurl the bomb out, and slam the helicopter door. Hobday feels Eddie's eyes on him, until his attention instead fixes on a photo of him and his wife on the dashboard. The hairs on the back of his neck stand up, as the man leans forward and whispers: Try that again, and I'll not only kill you, I'll hunt down that pretty wife of yours too.

• 39:24Alice Levine?

  He stares at the photo of his wife, then at the reflection of Stephanie and Eddie. He grits his teeth, and turns the helicopter around.

• 39:37Alice Levine?

  The police station comes back into view.

• 39:42Alice Levine?

  He feels a sickness take hold, as they shuffle the final churn to the edge of the entrance, fuse fizzing, and push it out, into the crisp afternoon air.

• 40:01Alice Levine?

  23rd of February 1974, Strabane. Chief Superintendent Sean Feeley stubs out a cigarette. Tries to take in what Captain James Hobday is telling him as he recounts the stop in Ards Abbey, the four bombs he made them throw out, and the one that hit the station.

• 40:20Speaker 05

  I had no choice. I did what I could, but they made it clear they would kill me and my family.

• 40:26Alice Levine?

  Feeley taps his finger impatiently. The final bomb might not have detonated. No one was hurt. But it's the first time the IRA have attempted an aerial bombardment, and he's under pressure to deliver a suspect. Superintendent Feeley leans forward in his chair, hoping his voice doesn't betray his agitation.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Is there anything else you can tell me about this man, this Eddie, or this woman?

• 40:51Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday thinks for a moment, sipping coffee from a paper cup.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  I told you, he was Irish, she was English, blonde, educated.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  And you're sure she was English?

• 41:04Alice Levine?

  It doesn't make sense. A posh Englishwoman working with the IRA. He slides a thin blue file across the table. Mugshots of young Irish women associated with the republican movement.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  Recognize any of these?

• 41:17Alice Levine?

  Captain Hobday shakes his head at every one. Feeley draws a long sigh, defeated. He sticks out his hand, ready to thank Captain Hobday for coming in, when the door bursts open. A junior officer is standing there breathlessly. Feeley's about to scold him for not knocking, but then he sees the man's eyes are shining with excitement.

• 41:39Speaker 04

  Sir, we've had fingerprint results back from the chopper.

• 41:42Alice Levine?

  The man beams.

• 41:44Speaker 04

  They think they found a match.

• 41:45Alice Levine?

  Feeley pushes past the young officer and strides down the corridor to his office, chest thumping. He opens the folder on his desk, expecting a known IRA member. His eyes narrow. That can't be right. It's an Oxford grad who got a slap on the wrist for robbing... her parents. He checks a third time. He heads back to the interview room and slaps down the photograph on the desk in front of Captain Hobday. Is this her? Captain Hobday's eyes widen. He nods furiously. Yes, that's Stephanie Grant. A smile slowly begins to form on Chief Superintendent Sean Feeley's lips.

• 42:28Alice Levine?

  He stares again at the image of the round-faced woman with long blonde hair. He knows the press are going to have a field day with this one. He mutters her name aloud for the first time. Rose Dogdale.

• 42:42Alice Levine?

  He's got his prime suspect. Now all he has to do is find her.

• 42:54Speaker 08

  Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organized crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand-new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne? I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne wherever you get your podcasts,

• 43:39Speaker 08

  and you can hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 43:54Speaker 06

  You stepped out for your morning jog. Except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop. You have to find out what happens next. Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel like you have no idea where you are. Audible. Stories that speak to you.

• 44:30Alice Levine?

  Twenty-four hours later, the 24th of February 1974, County Donegal. Rose shoves at the cottage door and half staggers inside, still clutching the newspaper in her damp palm. Taking great anxious gasps of air, she stumbles into the bedroom. Eddie sits up, a sheet half draped across his naked torso. He watches her, questioning. "Don't you leave me lying here on my own."

• 44:59Matt Forde?

  "Oh wow, things have escalated quickly."

• 45:02Alice Levine?

  "All of that from being taught how to wire a plug."

• 45:05Matt Forde?

  "The fuse was lit, within them both."

• 45:08Alice Levine?

  She ignores him, instead waves the newspaper in her hand.

• 45:13Speaker 04

  "He, he knew who I was, the shopkeeper. They all, they all know."

• 45:19Alice Levine?

  "What are you talking about?" She slams the paper down on the bed, sees Eddie scan it, his expression darkening.

• 45:26Speaker 04

  "I'm finished."

• 45:28Alice Levine?

  She grabs another paper from her bag.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  "This one claims I'm Britain's most wanted fucking criminal." "No, it's okay, we'll move. There is a safe house, in Coiney Cork. We'll go to ground for a while."

• 45:41Matt Forde?

  "They've got newspapers in Cork, Eddie."

• 45:43Alice Levine?

  But Rose shakes her head as she paces the floor. She pins back her hair, stares at herself in the mirror, sinks to her knees in resignation. Her eyes settle on a cheap reproduction of Manet's Masked Ball at the Opera House, hanging on the wall. She sighs as she thinks about the debutante ball all those years ago. Everything she sacrificed to be here, and for what?

• 46:08Speaker 04

  "It wasn't even a successful bloody campaign."

• 46:11Matt Forde?

  "I love how she sees that as a downside." "We didn't even kill anyone."

• 46:17Alice Levine?

  But as she gazes at the painting, another thought starts to occur. She slides open the dresser drawer and pulls out a red wig. She started wearing it in London after the first trial. "What on earth are you doing?" She carefully fixes the wig to her head and paints her lips bright red to match, mutters into the mirror.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  "I'm Mrs... um, no, Madame, Madame Mary May."

• 46:43Alice Levine?

  She studies herself in the mirror, smoothing down the fringe and primping the ends.

• 46:49Alice Levine?

  Satisfied, she takes in the woman staring back at her. Her skin looks paler somehow, her blue eyes starker. She fixes Eddie with a look.

• 47:00Alice Levine?

  She's come too far, given up too much to hesitate now. She's going to double down, hide in plain sight, and strike again whilst the authorities least expect it. But first, she needs to test her new disguise.

• 47:26Alice Levine?

  Forty-eight hours later, the 26th of February 1974, Dublin. Rose pushes through the crowds in Dublin's Marion Square West, adjusts her red wig, and approaches the fifth newspaper hawker of the morning. Excusez-moi, could you please tell me where's the National Gallery of Ireland is, s'il vous plaît? She looks across at Eddie, thanks the paper seller as he points to the square's western gate. "We might as well take a look whilst we're here." Rose loved art as a teenager, even spent time in Paris in her teens visiting the masters. She thinks the National has a few Caravagios she'd like to see, not that she'd ever admit that to Eddie. "I'd rather grab a pint."

• 48:07Alice Levine?

  She takes his hand, pulls him up the large stone steps to the museum's imposing doors. "Come on, we can start with the nudes. You're like Rubens."

• 48:19Matt Forde?

  "What a way to get him to go around a gallery. They've got naked ones, you know."

• 48:22Alice Levine?

  "There's loads of breasts, come on." She's always felt at home in these places despite what they represent. She adjusts her red wig, wraps her coat tightly around her, and keeps walking. She stops in front of Rubens Venus and Mars and turns to Eddie. "What do you think of this one?" Eddie shrugs.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  "I wouldn't have it in my house."

• 48:42Alice Levine?

  "It's, it's a Rubens. Venus is the goddess of love."

• 48:47Speaker 04

  "Christ, I mean, Madame Merry Me."

• 48:51Matt Forde?

  "This is so hallo hallo, isn't it? Merry me? I don't want to marry you. I'm already married." "No, my name is Madame Merry Me."

• 49:00Alice Levine?

  I would watch that episode.

• 49:02Matt Forde?

  I would write it.

• 49:03Alice Levine?

  Perhaps this was a mistake. Eddie's right. She should be planning their next move, not swanning around a goddamn art gallery.

• 49:13Alice Levine?

  She moves across to Vermeer's Lady Writing a Letter with Her Maid. She takes in the artist's delicate brushstrokes, his attention to detail.

• 49:24Alice Levine?

  She knows her strengths are her ideas, her planning, her intellect. She hears herself mutter aloud. This Vermeer is one of only two in private ownership. Can you imagine? She turns and looks at Eddie, a glint in her eye, hears him joke.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  What do you want him to do? Steal it? This place is pretty high security.

• 49:49Alice Levine?

  She gestures to the placard underneath the frame. She looks at him pointedly. Not from here. This painting belongs to the Bate family. They live at Rusborough House. They've got so much over there. Rubens, Gainsborough, Goya. She sees a smirk across Eddie's face.

• 50:08Speaker 04

  So this is your big plan? Knick a couple of pictures?

• 50:12Alice Levine?

  Rose places both hands on his shoulders. Can't you see? This is our leverage. We'll use the paintings to make them release IRA prisoners. Ransom them for money, whatever we want. She sees Eddie's eyes begin to shine. We don't need to organise a prison break. If we have their precious paintings, we can just demand that they be released in return. Otherwise, we burn them. A smile stretches across Eddie's face as he leans in to kiss her.

• 50:44Speaker 04

  You're a pretty smart one, you.

• 50:46Alice Levine?

  She feels her cheeks burn hot. Her body tingles with adrenaline. Because she knows it won't just be a matter of taking a few paintings. If she can pull this off, it might just be the biggest art heist in British history. Worth tens of millions. It will cut to the heart of the British establishment. And it might, just might, be the spark that Ireland leaves to free itself from British power once and for all.

• 51:20Matt Forde?

  This is what sets her apart in this operation is no one else involved in the IRA would have that knowledge about what wealthy privileged people have in their homes, the things they value. I mean, the paintings she's talking about are so sought after that they're almost priceless. She really knows how to hurt establishment figures and that means she has far more inventive ways of extorting them and using these possessions as leverage.

• 51:48Alice Levine?

  Yes, initially a very unlikely recruit for the IRA to take in, but her access is unbelievable and she can move in plain sight in a way that the other members of the movement can't.

• 52:02Matt Forde?

  Yeah, and you feel like their ideas would always be let's kidnap someone or kill someone, whereas she's coming from a different angle. And whilst, of course, I never condone terrorists or the terrible things that they do, I have to applaud her invention.

• 52:17Alice Levine?

  You have to.

• 52:18Matt Forde?

  She's got real presence of mind, this one.

• 52:20Alice Levine?

  She's also petrifying, so you feel like I have to applaud her. She would want that.

• 52:25Matt Forde?

  I don't want to slag her off. I'm scared.

• 52:27Speaker 09

  I'm Gemma Whelan and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War One secret agent accused of seducing allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari, early and at free on Audible.

• 52:58Speaker 10

  For decades, two legendary brands fought for the hearts of American bikers, Indian Motorcycle and Harley Davidson. The battle looked a lot like Coke versus Pepsi or Ford versus Chevy, but tastes changed and Indian didn't adapt fast enough. The icon all but died. Then came the con men, the dreamers, a string of spectacular failures that kept Indian in the grave until one company finally got it right. This is the story of an improbable revival and the reignition of an old rivalry. Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of the podcast Business Wars, and every season we bring you the true stories behind the companies that shape our world. Indian's new owners are going all in, but an existential crisis looms. Can Indian and Harley recruit enough younger riders to survive?

• 53:41Speaker 10

  Make sure to follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Business Wars early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 53:55Alice Levine?

  From Wondry and Sam's Audio, this is the second episode in our series, Rose Doug Dale.

• 54:01Matt Forde?

  A quick note about our dialogue. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

• 54:08Alice Levine?

  If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read The Woman Who Stole Vermeer by Anthony Amor, heiress rebel vigilante bomber by Sean O'Driscoll. You can listen to the BBC Northern Ireland podcast Assume Nothing, and you can watch the film Baltimore.

• 54:26Alice Levine?

  British Scandal is hosted by me, Alice Levine.

• 54:29Matt Forde?

  And me, Matt Ford.

• 54:30Alice Levine?

  Written by Lydia Marchant. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford. Our story editor is James Maniac. Sound design by Peregrine Andrews. For Sam's Dat, our producer is Chica Ayers. Our assistant producer is Redsey Bernard. Our senior producers are Joe Sykes and Dasha Lisitzina. For Wondry, our series producer is Theodora Leludis, and our managing producer is Rachel Sibley. Executive producers for Wondry are Estelle Doyle, Chris Bourne, Morgan Jones, and Marshall Louie.

• 55:09Speaker 11

  Hey, I'm Cassie DePecce, the host of Against the Odds from Audible Originals. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who lived to tell the tale. In our latest series, we track the story of Hugh Glass, the real-life revenant that inspired the 2015 film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In 1823, Glass was brutally mauled by a grizzly bear in present-day South Dakota and left for dead. His survival depended on trekking through 350 miles of wilderness alone with grave injuries. But he was driven by his thirst for revenge. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Against the Odds early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 55:53Speaker 07

  Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happened in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived thereafter him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back

• 56:37Speaker 07

  to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.