Pod Insights British Scandal Harry v Wills | The Fab Four | 2 About this episode Harry meets his dream woman, but Wills is less impressed. Suddenly, this "spare's" love life becomes a constitutional - and brotherly - crisis.
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0:00 Alice Levine? Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:07 Matt Forde? This episode contains strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
0:13 Alice Levine? I'm so glad you're here, Matt. I do need a little bit of help, if that's okay.
0:17 Matt Forde? Yeah.
0:18 Alice Levine? I'm going on a first date and I've sort of run out of ideas. I need something cool, fun, like I've made an effort, but it's also kind of cash.
0:26 Matt Forde? Yeah, you don't want to appear to have made too much effort.
0:28 Alice Levine? Exactly.
0:29 Matt Forde? Okay, Vegas.
0:31 Alice Levine? Does that just seem a little bit flash, potentially?
0:34 Matt Forde? Good point. Good for the Maldives. Two weeks in a luxurious water bungalow. Paradise, all-inclusive, and you get to swim with reef sharks, turtles and stingrays.
0:45 Alice Levine? I think for me, that might be a little on the intense side. What did you and your wife do for your first date?
0:50 Matt Forde? We went on the week sheave, had a couple of pints of Best and then had kebab meat and chips in the car park.
0:56 Matt Forde? Fifteenth of May, twenty eighteen. Nottingham Cottage, Kensington Palace. Meghan watches the seamstress at her feet, placing pins in the bottom of her ivory silk wedding gown. She feels a rush of excitement as she thinks of where she'll be in five days' time. Walking down the aisle at St George's Chapel, Harry waiting for her at the altar.
1:21 Matt Forde? She's brought out of the daydream by the buzz of her phone.
1:25 Matt Forde? Meghan answers to the palace's head of communications. Meghan, why didn't you tell us about your dad? What about him? It's just broken on TMZ that he had a heart attack six days ago and is in hospital recovering. I thought you'd... No, that's not true. I don't know where they've got that from. It came directly from an interview. He says he's not coming to the wedding. Meghan feels sweat bead on her brow as she hangs up. This doesn't make sense. Sure, things have been strained with her father lately. But he would have told her this, wouldn't he? She dismisses the seamstress, then scrolls down to her father's number.
2:06 Alice Levine? Things change, as I'm sure we will learn over the years in the royal family. But for generations, royals have been dismissing the seamstress, haven't they?
2:14 Matt Forde? It's an important part of royal life, that as much as the monarchy must move and change with the times, some things must remain. It's what the British public expects.
2:24 Matt Forde? A knot forms in her stomach as she's met with his voicemail greeting. Dad, it's me. Please call me. If you need help, I'm here. Just call. She wipes away a tear. She's about to call Harry when... Meghan? Meghan feels a rush of relief as Kate pushes the door open and steps inside. If anyone can understand her predicament, it's her soon-to-be sister-in-law. Hey, I'm so glad you're here. Did the comms team tell you? But Kate cuts straight in. Charlotte's dress needs another fitting. It's way too loose around the waist.
3:05 Matt Forde? Meghan blinks, thrown by her curt manner. But she forces herself to stay calm. I'm sure it's not that bad. She's really upset, Meg. It needs to be sorted. And you haven't confirmed arrangements for the Page Boys' party yet. Meghan feels her spine stiffen. She eyeballs Kate, fighting back tears. I have bigger things to deal with right now. My dad's... I'm struggling here. Meghan trails off, emotion overtaking her. Kate shuffles awkwardly. Look, I know you've been having some family issues, and we all sympathize. But there are still certain protocols. I'm aware of the protocols. Believe me.
3:49 Matt Forde? Her voice cracks. To Meghan's amazement, Kate just looks angry. Just sort it out, please. Meghan watches as Kate turns on her heel and breezes out. She's suddenly overwhelmed by everything that's happening. The constant vitriol in the press, her father, the lack of support from royals like Kate. She falls to the floor, gasping for breath. Catching her reflection in the mirror, hot tears roll down her cheeks. She's dressed as the perfect bride, but this is no fairy tale. It's more like a horror movie. The family she's about to marry into is cold and rigid, with impossible expectations.
4:32 Matt Forde? For the first time, Meghan's not sure if she will ever fit in. Or if she's about to make the worst mistake of her life.
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5:40 Matt Forde? From Audible Originals, I'm Matt Ford.
5:42 Alice Levine? And I'm Alice Levine.
5:43 Matt Forde? And this is British Scandal.
5:57 Matt Forde? So Alice, we've spent a bit of time now with Prince William and Prince Harry. We've seen them grow up in their own unique, unusual circumstances, obviously deeply affected by the manner of their mother's death. And they've both dealt with it very differently. Do you feel like you can relate to one more than the other?
6:11 Alice Levine? Well, obviously come on to the privilege of their position. But of course, at this point, we're really feeling sympathetic for two young men who are, you know, traumatized and in mourning because they're having to deal with their mother's death in the public eye. I don't think either of them have the emotional toolkit to deal with that. And it really feels to me like both of them could do with a lot of therapy very, very quickly. But they were kind of bumping along, even though they're these really different characters. So you've got Harry, who feels like he's not allowed to express his emotions in the way that he wants. It must be so painful to not be able to say, I miss her, I'm sad, and to try and kind of keep that all inside. William, you might say, because he's the older brother, has
6:56 Alice Levine? More quickly and effectively developed the classic stiff upper lip and is kind of just swallowing it all down. So you might see Harry as the more relatable one and the more human one. But I kind of understand why William is in that position of default pragmatism.
7:12 Matt Forde? Yes, we ended the last episode with the two of them really moving in different directions. Will's is with Kate and he's cozied up and seems happy. Harry is on his own and really in a spiral of despair, particularly after going to Paris and travelling through the tunnel where his mum died. So is there a way back to it being the days of the two of them against the world?
7:29 Alice Levine? I think no matter how much Harry wants that, that just can't happen. Obviously Kate's already in the mix, so that's changed the dynamic. We've had the whole episode with Camilla and them rejecting her and then Will's kind of betraying Harry and saying, no, no, no, we need to accept her, that's sort of part of our duty. And Harry is lonely, he feels out on his own and he's looking for love. So I think there's going to be another disruption to the dynamic because I have a sense, spoiler alert, that this episode, we might feel the true impact of Meghan Markle.
8:00 Matt Forde? We might indeed. This is episode two, The Fab Four.
8:06 Matt Forde? Two years earlier, 1st of July 2016, Kensington Palace.
8:13 Matt Forde? Harry shuffles through the wrought iron side gate, grocery bag in hand. He beelines for the grand Georgian façade of apartment 1A, William's family home, feeling a rush of sentimentality. Things have been so strained between them lately, so distant. But this is the perfect moment to reconnect. He pulls an old Lion King DVD from his jacket. He's looking forward to surprising him with it on the day they always mark together, mummy's birthday.
8:44 Matt Forde? Is that the most appropriate thing to watch? Because it's the death of a parent and then a rivalry between two relatives that gets pretty, pretty flipping nasty.
8:53 Alice Levine? And there's a stampede. So yeah, it just doesn't feel like the right mood.
8:58 Matt Forde? He stops sharply at the sight of Willie walking a distinctive silhouette through the door. Granny. A two-year-old Prince George grasps at her gloved hand, with daughter Charlotte toddling behind. Has Willie even remembered the date? Harry's startled by a tap on the shoulder. He turns to find one of the palace caretakers behind him. Can I help you with something, sir? Harry looks down at his bag in his hand, now painfully self-conscious about the ready meal and four-pack it contains. Uh, no.
9:33 Alice Levine? Might be a Charlie Bingham's, mightn't it?
9:35 Matt Forde? Oh, it probably is, yeah. It would be a posh ready meal, but still, you do expect better of the royals, and in a way, I want them to be doing better than ready meals. I'm like, if you're gonna live that life, go for it.
9:45 Alice Levine? But also, who's taught them to cook?
9:47 Matt Forde? Oh my god, even the butler would have to microwave it for them.
9:50 Alice Levine? Can you imagine, as a grown person, being shown how to use the microwave?
9:53 Matt Forde? So I peel the lid back, but then I peel the lid... Why don't I just take the lid off? No, it has to stay over it, it contains some of the heat.
10:00 Alice Levine? How many fork holes? You go by vibe.
10:03 Matt Forde? He quickly turns and trudges back to his much smaller cottage. Inside, he pierces the plastic on his tikka masala and tosses it into the microwave. Then he slumps in front of the TV, flicking to a Friends repeat. He mimics Chandler, parrot fashion. I'm coming up 30 years behind him, but the stops are all the same. Bitter Town, Aloneville, Hermit Junction. He sighs to himself, takes his phone out, begins scrolling mindlessly through Instagram. He sees so many gorgeous women, but who wants to go out with a washed-up, almost middle-aged spare? He's just about to put his phone down when he spots something that catches his attention. A friend with her arm around a woman he's not seen before,
10:48 Matt Forde? framed with a filter giving her floppy dog ears. He studies her sparkling eyes and wide smile. She's beautiful, but it's more than that. Something deeper, even familiar about her. He messages his pal. Who's that?
11:05 Matt Forde? The reply comes quickly. Meghan, she's an actress, in town for a few days and single. Want me to hook you up? Harry stares at his phone. Every instinct screams caution, but for some inexplicable reason, he knows that if he doesn't take this chance, he'll regret it for the rest of his life. Could this happening on mummy's birthday be a sign? So before he can stop himself, he types: "Why not?"
11:39 Matt Forde? Two days later, Dean Street Townhouse, London.
11:45 Matt Forde? Meghan Markle weaves between the leather armchairs and low tables of the exclusive Soho Members Lounge. She settles into a maroon tub chair in the corner and flags down a passing waiter. Ice water, please. Still. Meghan checks her reflection in her phone. She's relieved to see her long brown hair has remained frizz-free despite the city's humidity. She brushes down her navy jacket, which she's paired with a simple white t-shirt, then tries to steady her hand as she lifts the water glass to her lips. Meghan opens a text. Running late. Car stuck in traffic. Her nerves turn to irritation as she tosses her phone onto the table. This was a bad idea.
12:29 Matt Forde? Since her brief marriage ended bitterly three years ago, she's sworn off men and vowed to concentrate on her role in the TV drama Suits. But when her friend asked if she'd go on a date with Prince Harry, how could she say no?
12:43 Alice Levine? Have you seen Suits?
12:44 Matt Forde? I haven't.
12:45 Alice Levine? It's quite a soapy, legal drama. On the softer side, on the fun side, and she plays Rachel Zane, an impressive, young, paralegal who's working her way to the top.
12:58 Matt Forde? You've actually made it sound quite good.
13:00 Alice Levine? It's very watchable.
13:01 Matt Forde? And is she a good actor?
13:02 Alice Levine? She's fine, yeah. I guess it's not a role that would be given to Daniel Day-Lewis. There's not loads to work with.
13:10 Matt Forde? Twenty minutes later, still eyeing the door, Meghan wishes she hadn't bothered. Her phone pings again. Still stuck. Sorry. Meghan starts gathering up her things. This was a mistake. What the hell could she have in common with some Downton Abbey caricature who can't even turn up on time? But as she rises from her chair, she hears a breathless voice above her. I'm so sorry. Please don't go. Meghan looks up to find Harry, face flushed, red hair dishevelled. The traffic was crazy. I know this must have been... Seen, but I swear I'd never. It's okay, breathe. She sits back down. Harry smiles at her, slumps in the chair opposite. He orders a beer, then leans forward. I have a confession.
13:56 Matt Forde? Meghan locks eyes with him, concerned. I've never actually seen suits. Meghan splutters a laugh, sees a relieved smile appear on Harry's face, an impish twinkle in his eyes. She hadn't expected naughtiness.
14:11 Alice Levine? So naughty.
14:12 Matt Forde? As they start to chat, she finds herself warming up more and more. He hardly speaks about the royal family, briefly mentioning his brother. We don't speak as much as we used to. We still work together on conservation projects, sometimes. The hours slip by.
14:28 Alice Levine? Yeah, well, with that kind of chat, I mean, you would be barely looking at your watch.
14:32 Matt Forde? Must be odd going on a date with a royal, because you know so much about them.
14:37 Alice Levine? God, this is such new information, so cool, tell me more.
14:40 Matt Forde? Right, so if, that's a lot on the first day, but let's say we were to get married. I would then be, would I be a princess, is that how it works? And do you feel like you're running out of time to find someone?
14:52 Alice Levine? Let's talk about something else, talk to me about duchies and duke dims.
14:55 Matt Forde? Yeah, and can I just, I'm just gonna take notes.
14:58 Matt Forde? That does include tax breaks, right, and land. Cool.
15:03 Alice Levine? Another ice water, please.
15:05 Matt Forde? The next thing Meghan knows, the room's dim lights brighten sharply. Meghan looks around to see the place is practically empty. Oh my god, it's nearly midnight, I have an early flight. Can I see you again? Meghan quickly looks at her diary, as Harry pulls out his own iCal. I'm in Toronto for three weeks filming, maybe after that? I'm in Botswana by then. Meghan sighs disappointed, but then she sees a grin form on Harry's face. Come with me. Meghan blinks. To Botswana? What?
15:45 Alice Levine? I'm sorry, this is a big no for me, second date in Botswana? I don't care if you're the Prince of England.
15:52 Matt Forde? Yes, and although this may sound mad to the rest of us, this is not the first date that Harry has taken to Botswana. Meghan would actually be the fourth woman that he has taken to Botswana on a date.
16:03 Alice Levine? Stop it, this is his move.
16:05 Matt Forde? It's his classic second date move.
16:09 Matt Forde? Harry leans forward, looking totally serious.
16:12 Speaker 04 I could show you the conservation work we're doing.
16:15 Matt Forde? Meghan's head spins. She would never usually be so impulsive. But looking into those eyes, she sees only hope and nerves and utter sincerity. Meghan decides to throw caution to the wind with this prince charming and see where it takes her.
16:36 Matt Forde? One month later, Meno Akena, Botswana.
16:41 Matt Forde? Harry can't keep his eyes off Meghan as she stares in awe at the giraffe silhouetted against the amber sky. He grins. He still can't believe she's here, sharing this with him. Spotting a new shape in the distance, he leans in closer and points.
16:58 Speaker 04 That's a red lechwe antelope. They're very rare, only found in specific wetland areas.
17:05 Matt Forde? Harry's thrown everything at making the trip perfect since they arrived this morning. He's even done extensive research on the wildlife in an effort to impress.
17:14 Speaker 04 If you look at the markings, you'll see...
17:17 Matt Forde? But he trails off, as Meghan's attention instead focuses on a small group of park rangers, setting up equipment at their watering hole. She shouts to the driver. Can we stop? Harry inwardly curses, as Meghan jumps out and introduces herself to the group. She crouches down to chat to a little boy. What's your notebook for? It's for the lelephants. I love lelephants too. Can you show me? Harry feels a lump form in his throat. Meghan's ease with the child is achingly familiar, the kind of thing mummy used to do. He swallows as Meghan returns from chatting to the family.
17:59 Matt Forde? His family are documenting elephant migration patterns. Would it be okay if I asked them to join us for dinner? Harry's mind flashes to the five-course candlelit meal he's planned, followed by a couples massage. But seeing the light in Meghan's eyes.
18:15 Speaker 04 Of course.
18:19 Matt Forde? By the time dinner's done and they head to their campsite, it's late.
18:24 Matt Forde? Meghan pulls a blanket from the tent and places it down near the fire that's been built for them. She pats the space next to her, grinning. "Tell me what this place means to you, why it's so special."
18:38 Alice Levine? "It's not that special, really."
18:40 Matt Forde? "As I always say on the second date."
18:44 Alice Levine? "I'll give you the PDF, it's quicker."
18:46 Speaker 04 "I first came here a few weeks after my mum died. It felt, I dunno, like here I had so much to look at, it got me out of my head."
18:56 Matt Forde? Harry glances over at Meghan, sees her wipe a tear from her cheek.
19:01 Speaker 04 "She was really into conservation projects like the one we talked about at dinner. I want to do more, but Will's has bagged Africa as his thing."
19:09 Alice Levine? "Why can't you both have it?"
19:11 Matt Forde? Harry blinks, startled by her directness. He chuckles.
19:17 Speaker 04 "It doesn't really work like that."
19:19 Matt Forde? Meghan takes Harry's hand. "So change it, shake things up a bit."
19:25 Alice Levine? "I've got this new idea. Why don't you guys lay claim to a place that you have no business in being? An absolute first for British rulers, let's just throw the rulebook out the window."
19:36 Matt Forde? Harry grins, the rebel in him stirring for the first time in years. He loves this girl's hot spa, and he's been looking for a way to get closer to Will's again. He takes a deep breath and shuffles closer, as he leans in, kisses Meghan. All the fears of the last few years seem to melt away. Harry starts to let his imagination run wild. Him and Meghan going for cosy dinners with Willie and Kate at Kensington Palace, their children playing together. He's met the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with. Now, he can't wait to introduce her to... The family.
20:22 Matt Forde? October 2016. Apartment 1A Kensington Palace.
20:28 Alice Levine? It's very man of the people to live in a flat, isn't it?
20:30 Matt Forde? 1A makes it sound small, but this is a 20-room, four-floor property with its own walled garden.
20:39 Matt Forde? William walks down the bright hallway and pulls open the door to see his grinning brother beside a pretty petite woman in jeans and a slouchy sweater. His cheeks redden. He feels overdressed in his iron chinos and crisp white shirt. Wills, I've heard so much about you. William's about to reach his hand out when she steps forward and pulls him in for a hug. His body stiffens. Over her shoulder, Harry eyeballs him and mouths relax.
21:10 Speaker 04 Um, I managed to rustle up some tea.
21:14 Matt Forde? William mushes them in, picks up a nearby jar full of biscuits.
21:18 Speaker 04 Hobnob.
21:20 Matt Forde? Megan splutters a laugh. A what now?
21:24 Speaker 04 They're Harold's favourites.
21:26 Matt Forde? I try to limit sugar, but I'd love a coffee. Not a great start.
21:31 Alice Levine? I'm imagining her saying, "Do you have any watermelon dusted with cinnamon?" That's actually one of her favourite snacks from her show.
21:38 Matt Forde? I like to individually wrap each piece of watermelon in a little pouch and then kiss it. William forces a smile as he rummages in the cupboard for his cafetiere. A cocker spaniel bounds in and launches himself at Megan.
21:51 Speaker 05 Well, hello there, gorgeous.
21:54 Matt Forde? As the dog licks Megan's beaming face, William softens.
21:58 Speaker 04 That's Lupo. He's very discerning. He clearly likes you.
22:03 Matt Forde? He watches them settle down at the kitchen table, and as Megan starts to chat away, William notes Lupo isn't the only lovesick puppy in the room. He's never seen Harry look at anyone the way he gazes at this girl. It's adorable and unnerving.
22:19 Speaker 04 Harry tells me you went to Botswana on your second date.
22:23 Speaker 05 I've never heard about him taking anyone there. Wink, wink.
22:28 Matt Forde? But also it is in Africa, and that is mine.
22:33 Matt Forde? Harry nods enthusiastically as Meghan beams at him, like it's the most natural thing in the world.
22:38 Speaker 04 It got us thinking. There's so much more Haz could do over there. The platform he has, the access.
22:46 Matt Forde? William's smile stiffens. His brother's known this girl for a month, and she's reorganising his duties.
22:53 Speaker 04 Uh, well, perhaps Haz and I can put our heads together.
22:58 Matt Forde? The moment Meghan's gone, Harry stares at Will's expectant.
23:02 Speaker 04 She's amazing, right?
23:04 Matt Forde? William pauses. He knows he needs to choose his words carefully.
23:10 Speaker 04 She seems great.
23:12 Matt Forde? He stops when Harry sighs.
23:14 Speaker 04 But? It's such early days. She's very American, and what do you really know about her?
23:21 Matt Forde? He sees Harry roll his eyes.
23:23 Speaker 04 She's kind. She's smart. She cares about the same things I do. What else do I need to know? I just think, taking your time.
23:33 Matt Forde? Harry snaps back.
23:34 Speaker 04 Yeah, 'cause that'd make Waitikatie so happy. I'm not having a bloody ten-year engagement. Engagement?
23:42 Matt Forde? Watching Harry scowl and grab a hobnob, William realises he's handled this wrong.
23:48 Speaker 04 Listen, I'm sorry if I overstepped. Meghan's great.
23:52 Matt Forde? He's relieved to see Harry relax a little, his smile returning as he reaches for another biscuit. He really does like Meghan, and she's clearly devoted to Harold. But she also has no sense of how their world works, and a confidence bordering on cocky. Will's realises the best way to protect his brother and the family's reputation is to keep a careful eye on this new girl and help her avoid any missteps. If Meghan is going to stay, he'll just have to do all he can to help her become... ...one of them.
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25:40 Matt Forde? November 2016, Nottingham Cottage.
25:45 Matt Forde? Harry takes a sip of his Bordeaux and grins at Willie, who shakes his head in mock shame as Kate makes pleading eyes at Meghan. Oh, one more, please. Harry watches Meghan as she holds her hands up in defeat, then instantly transforms into a hard-nosed paralegal. I don't get lucky, Mike. I make my own luck. Harry swells with pride as Kate claps delightedly. He had no idea she was a suit superfan. She's been asking Meghan to do her best Rachel Zane-isms all evening. He watches as Meghan grabs Kate by the shoulders. Go on, try it. To Harry's delight, a tipsy Kate clears her throat
26:29 Matt Forde? and tries to adopt a loyally look. Ah, I make my own luck. Meghan and Kate both collapse into giggles. Harry winks at Willie as he clears the table. He can tell his brother is enjoying the easy atmosphere as much as he is.
26:46 Matt Forde? From the kitchen, Harry watches William answer his phone and head his way.
26:50 Speaker 04 Palace comms have been trying to get hold of you.
26:53 Matt Forde? Harry glances at his own phone on the side, sees several missed calls. He takes the phone from William and speaks to the palace's head of communications. The express printed photos of you and Meghan leaving a Halloween party in Toronto. It's out. Harry's stomach lurches. He'd hoped to keep his relationship quiet a bit longer.
27:14 Speaker 04 I'll, um, I'll call you back.
27:18 Matt Forde? Harry looks through the doorway, takes in Meghan's laughter. He turns to see a knowing look in his brother's eyes.
27:25 Speaker 04 It'll be okay.
27:27 Matt Forde? Harry's never felt so grateful for his support as they head back into the other room. He clears his throat.
27:33 Speaker 04 Ah, uh, the news has broken about me and Meg.
27:39 Matt Forde? Harry rushes over to a scared-looking Meghan as she immediately takes out her phone and starts scrolling. Harry stares at an express photo of himself in a Mad Max costume, smiling beside Meghan in a camouflage top and trapper hat. Harry's New Girl: Everything We Need to Know About Suit Star Meghan Markle.
27:59 Alice Levine? Now, this is nice to see. Not a fantastic track record with fancy dress.
28:03 Matt Forde? That's right. Mad Max is the most moderate individual Prince Harry has ever dressed up as. But this is Tom Hardy's actual outfit from the film. It's not just some fancy dress version. This is Hollywood-level fancy dress. William scans the headlines.
28:19 Speaker 04 It's all positive.
28:21 Matt Forde? Harry stays silent. He knows how quickly it can turn. He pulls Willie aside.
28:28 Speaker 04 I think maybe I should get out on the front foot. Have a meeting with editors. Issue clear boundaries. Christ, no. You'll just rile them. So what? I sit back and do nothing while those vultures start to pick her apart? Like they did Mummy?
28:43 Matt Forde? Harry stays on Will's.
28:45 Speaker 04 I think you're underestimating Meg has.
28:48 Matt Forde? Harry manages a small smile.
28:51 Speaker 04 She's well-known in the States. She's had media training. Christ, more than us it seems.
28:57 Matt Forde? Harry thinks about that. Meghan is at ease in front of the cameras.
29:01 Speaker 04 Maybe we could harness that. Put her front and centre of one of the charity initiatives we discussed. Make them see how committed she is.
29:10 Matt Forde? William nods enthusiastically.
29:12 Speaker 04 Absolutely. We can sit down with the comms teams tomorrow, all four of us. Come up with an action plan. You're not alone in this. We'll work it out together.
29:23 Matt Forde? Harry goes back to Meghan, energised, especially when he sees Kate put a reassuring arm around her. With her and Willie by their side, he's sure he and Meg will soon have the British press eating out of their hands.
29:43 Matt Forde? Two weeks later, Guards Polo Club wins a great park. Harry's horse churns up divots of turf as he thunders across the field, and with a perfectly timed swing of his mallet, sends the ball sailing through the goalposts. Get it!
30:01 Matt Forde? Harry looks at a grimacing William on the opposing team. He pats his brother's shoulder good-naturedly as they head back towards the clubhouse.
30:09 Speaker 04 Dinner tonight? Meghan and I were thinking we should go over some ideas.
30:13 Matt Forde? Harry's delighted when Willie nods. These last couple of weeks have gone better than he could ever have imagined. With Harry following his brother's advice and confirming his relationship via an authorised palace leak, Harry's even shared information on a couple of projects they all intend to work on together in Africa. Harry takes his phone out to find a message from the palace's comms team with a link to a MailOnline story. He grins, assuming it's another article referring to them all as the Fab Four.
30:43 Alice Levine? How embarrassing. We hate it when they do that.
30:45 Matt Forde? But a chill runs down his spine as he reads the headline. Harry's Girl Is Almost Straight Out Of Compton. Then the subhead, Gang Scarred Home Of Her Mother Revealed.
30:56 Speaker 04 I'm sorry, Harold. It's disgusting.
30:59 Matt Forde? Harry feels the bitter taste of bile hit his throat.
31:03 Speaker 04 It's just like with mommy.
31:05 Matt Forde? He throws down his polo mallet, starts striding towards the clubhouse. Willie has stepped behind.
31:11 Speaker 04 I'm going to speak out. I can't ignore. Don't.
31:15 Matt Forde? William snatches his phone away. Harry stops in his tracks, shocked.
31:20 Speaker 04 It's racist garbage. Trust me. I've been dealing with this shit longer than you.
31:26 Matt Forde? Harry glares at Wills, whose eyes are pleading. He sighs deeply and nods. But when Harry returns to Nottingham Cottage, a tear-stained Meghan is staring at the story on her laptop. It's all about my mom's skin colour, her background. I never imagined that... Meghan shakes her hair, disbelieving. And Harry feels his face flush with shame. How could he let William talk him out of dealing with this as he should?
31:55 Alice Levine? There's so much that is wrong with this. I mean, factually, it's wrong. She's not from a poor part of LA. She was privately educated. But on a more important level, everything that they're printing is just rooted in stereotypes and bigotry. I mean, this is the start of the vitriol, isn't it? But it goes on to snowball. I think a lot of it is shrouded in this objection to her being, you know, a divorcee, American, sort of new age and Californian. She's not one of us. She's not what the Royals are. She's an outsider. But I think, as we know now, a lot of that was just a mask for being horribly, horribly racist.
32:27 Matt Forde? It's something people say, yeah, just something about her. I can't put my finger on it. I think you can. You just don't dare say it. That evening, Harry grips Meg's hand as they watch the 10 o'clock news. In the unprecedented palace statement, the predicament of Prince Harry's new girlfriend is compared to the treatment of his late mother Diana. Harry texts Willie. Have you seen it? Three dots appear, then vanish. Man, that's a horrible feeling.
32:56 Alice Levine? Oh, it's horrible. You may be a royal, but you are not protected from the three dots disappearing.
33:01 Matt Forde? Harry's chest tightens as doubt creeps in. He opens Twitter. Good on ya, Harry. The press can stick their cameras where the sun don't shine. Diana all over again. Good luck, M and H. Hashtag leave Harry Meghan alone. Harry's eyes linger on that last line. He loves Willie, respects him. But there's more than one way of handling this. And it's not just him anymore. It's Harry and Meghan, M and H. So he's not going to stick to the stuffy rules of the past. From now on, he's going to take a leaf out of his mum's book and do things his way.
33:46 Matt Forde? February 2018, BAFTA, central London. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.
33:58 Matt Forde? William gives Kate a reassuring smile as he steps onto the stage, squinting against the flashing cameras.
34:06 Matt Forde? And Prince Harry and his fiancee, Meghan Markle. Wills can't help but whistle at the louder cheers greeting Harry and Meg.
34:18 Matt Forde? Kate is leading today's media launch of the charity they've all been working on for the last year. And Wills was hoping it would be a chance for her to outshine Meg. She might not say it, but he knows his pregnant wife has been hurt by headlines comparing her frumpy look to Meg's effortless glamour.
34:35 Alice Levine? It's a tale as old as time, isn't it, pitting two women against each other? They love to do that.
34:39 Matt Forde? Yeah, whatever side you're on, obviously what Meghan is going through with the racial element is far more severe, but if you're Kate, still not nice to be talked about in this way. William leans in and whispers in Kate's ear. You look beautiful. You've got. Wills glows with pride as she launches into her intro. These issues mean a lot to all of us. That's why the purpose of the Royal Foundation is to offer support in all kinds of mental health journeys. To William's despair, Meghan jumps in. It's also about women. They need to feel empowered to use their voice. William can tell Kate's rafta smile is hiding her irritation as Meghan continues.
35:24 Matt Forde? I've been campaigning for this for so long. A bigger change. He tries to stop his frustration growing at her hijacking Kate's airtime, not to mention veering wildly off topic. He's relieved when the hostess intervenes. So William, Harry, what was the last thing you disagreed on? How did you resolve it?
35:45 Matt Forde? William stiffens as he looks at Harry. His brother's been so outspoken this last year, he can never be sure of what he might say next. He leans into the microphone, but Harry beats him to it.
35:57 Speaker 04 I'm not sure we have resolved it yet.
36:01 Matt Forde? William squirms. As soon as they leave the stage, he whips his mic off, drops the friendly facade.
36:08 Speaker 04 What disagreement haven't we resolved yet? You tell me, you've been in a mood all week.
36:13 Matt Forde? Wills sees Kate reach his side, her eyes urging caution.
36:18 Speaker 04 I heard about your request to granny, about the beard.
36:22 Matt Forde? William's anger grows as Harry chuckles and turns to a confused Meghan.
36:28 Speaker 04 He's sulking because I've been told I can keep my beard for our wedding, when he was ordered to shave before marrying Kate.
36:34 Matt Forde? Aren't you being a little bit petty? William's face burns as he tries to gather a response, but now Kate beats him to it. You said the same when I confronted you about using my fashion contacts.
36:48 Alice Levine? Oh no, the floodgates are open now.
36:50 Matt Forde? Yes, and this is very similar to the beard rivalry. So, prior to the royal family, Meghan would get her outfits from Erdem. But once she got involved in the royal family, Kate got first dibs on the outfits. And I think Meghan felt like Kate was trying to...
37:06 Alice Levine? I'll stop you there. This is so silly. What are you talking about?
37:10 Matt Forde? Also, at the level they're operating at, any designer in the world would clothe you. So even if Kate has stopped you wearing one designer's clothes, and that is unfair, there's a whole world of designers out there.
37:23 Alice Levine? Also, just put on a pantsuit and go cut your ribbon.
37:26 Speaker 04 Meg's constantly under the microscope. There's no reason not to share.
37:30 Matt Forde? Will rolls his eyes.
37:32 Speaker 04 Grow up, Harold. Meghan's only had good publicity, and you're still whining.
37:38 Matt Forde? Will spills Kate tug his sleeve as a representative from the foundation approaches. He paints on a smile and heads over to her.
37:47 Speaker 04 Thanks for today.
37:48 Matt Forde? No, thank you. We couldn't have got off to a better start. The press loved seeing M&H. She quickly adds, "All of the Fab Four, in fact." William inwardly sighs. He has to face facts. With their wedding round the corner, the public has Harry and Meghan fever. And that can only give the whole institution a boost. So he'll make peace, do his best to ensure the Fab Four fantasy remains intact. At least until the wedding is out of the way, and he's back in the driving seat.
38:27 Matt Forde? Six months later, November 2018, Bondi Beach, Sydney, Australia. Harry grins as a surfer spreads a colourful stripe of sunscreen over his nose. He eyes Meghan beside him, puts a protective hand over her small baby bump. Can we get a photo with the little grooms? Harry smiles as a bunch of young surfers gather round to pose with them.
38:53 Matt Forde? It's the perfect end to their first royal tour as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Harry has been taken aback by the vast crowds at every engagement, with the Australian press comparing the frenzy to the first time Harry's mum visited. The fact Meghan is four months pregnant is the icing on the cake.
39:15 Matt Forde? Two hours later, on the plane home, Harry watches Meghan snooze contentedly. He pulls out his phone, excited to see the UK coverage, only to stare at the headlines in confusion. Duchess Difficult, Palace Staff in Revolt. Meghan's Demanding Behaviour Sparks Palace Crisis. Sussex Survivors Club Staff Exodus. This is like a coordinated attack.
39:42 Speaker 04 Bastards.
39:43 Matt Forde? Seeing Meghan stir, Harry quickly moves to the back of the plane, makes a call.
39:49 Speaker 05 Hey, how was the tour?
39:51 Speaker 04 Screw the tour. Have you seen the latest headlines?
39:55 Matt Forde? There's a long pause.
39:58 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's not great.
40:00 Speaker 04 Not great? These are detailed briefings. Meg bullying staffers until they resign, treating aides like her underlings, making Kate cry when we both know...
40:12 Speaker 05 Well, you and I weren't there, and from what Kate said...
40:15 Speaker 04 Don't you fucking duh!
40:17 Matt Forde? Harry's head starts to whirl as he thinks about all the positive stories about William and Kate recently. The timing of this.
40:25 Speaker 04 It must drive you mad, all the good coverage we've been getting for this tour, that for once you're not the centre of attention. The golden boy.
40:32 Speaker 05 Don't be ridiculous.
40:35 Alice Levine? It would seem ridiculous, and it would seem paranoid, if there weren't multiple precedents of people within the family leaking stories to the press. I mean, we heard about Camilla selling stories about Harry's drug use to make Charles look better. This is what they do.
40:52 Matt Forde? This is just a fixture of their family dynamic, is that any one point, any core member of the family can leak mega gossip on another one, and it's been going on for years.
41:03 Alice Levine? And some of it's true, and some of it's not, and it's just used to serve a purpose.
41:08 Matt Forde? But the more he thinks about it, the more it makes sense to Harry.
41:12 Speaker 04 This is just the kind of thing your staff would do. Damage us to boost you and Kate. You've gone full fucking firm.
41:18 Speaker 05 I don't have to listen to this paranoid...
41:20 Matt Forde? Bullshit.
41:22 Matt Forde? The line goes dead. Harry stares at his phone, filled with anger and doubt. He can't be sure Willie's behind this. It could be anyone at the palace. But his brother certainly isn't doing anything to stop it. He slowly walks back down the plane to a still sleeping Megan. He takes in her baby bump, her peaceful face. And his resolve hardens. All that matters is his new wife and family. And from now on, he will do whatever it takes to protect them. Even if it means calling out Willie on every move he makes.
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44:15 Matt Forde? February 2019, Apartment 1A Kensington Palace. William shuffles uncomfortably, barely making eye contact with Meghan and Harry, who sit across the neatly set table in silence. He relaxes a little as Kate enters with a pot of tea. This meeting was Kate's idea. A chance to clear the air and stop giving the press endless fodder about their houses being at war. Before anything else is said, I want to address the elephant in the room. William watches Kate look directly at Meghan as she sits. The bridesmaid thing, I'm so sorry. I was stressed, sleep deprived from Louis, and I didn't fully understand what was going on with your father.
44:59 Matt Forde? Harry's shoulders unhunch and Meghan's lips turn up into a small smile. Thank you. That means a lot. Will's quietly exhales, confident they're back on track. But Meghan isn't done. I'd appreciate it if your office put out a statement correcting the record about what actually happened. William sees Kate's conciliatory smile falter. He steps in.
45:26 Speaker 04 This was all months ago. People have moved on. We should too. Funny how Meg's always the bad guy.
45:34 Matt Forde? William slams his teacup down, his Earl Grey spilling on the white linen tablecloth.
45:40 Speaker 04 This is a joke. We've tried our best to welcome Meg, but it's impossible when the two of you seem determined to peddle this persecution narrative.
45:49 Matt Forde? William turns to Megan, cutting her off before she can retort.
45:53 Speaker 04 You treat staff as like they're your Hollywood lackeys. You act as if protocol doesn't apply to you. And as for the way you speak to Catherine...
46:02 Matt Forde? Megan looks perplexed. William stares at Kate, urging her to speak. When I was pregnant with Louis, and I forgot to bring round a dish you wanted to borrow, you said I had "baby brain"? It was very hurtful.
46:18 Matt Forde? It was a throwaway comment. I'd say it to any friend.
46:22 Speaker 04 Kate isn't your friend. She's the future queen.
46:25 Matt Forde? Harry throws down his napkin.
46:27 Speaker 04 The air in all his glory!
46:30 Matt Forde? William's had enough. He stands and points directly at Megan.
46:34 Speaker 04 This is all you. None of these problems existed before you came along.
46:39 Matt Forde? Kindly take your finger out of my face.
46:42 Alice Levine? It is very intimidating.
46:44 Matt Forde? William blinks in shock. He looks at Harry, waiting for him to tell his wife she's gone too far. But instead...
46:52 Speaker 04 Come on, we're done here.
46:54 Matt Forde? As Harry leads Megan out, a stunned William turns to Kate. She's already clearing the table, her movement sharp with emotion.
47:03 Speaker 04 I can't leave it like that.
47:05 Matt Forde? Just... give them some space. Let the dust settle. Under her glare, William nods. But when she leaves the room, he takes his phone out and texts Harry.
47:18 Speaker 04 Please, let's talk again. Just you and me. Love, Willie. Kiss.
47:24 Matt Forde? William is certain he can get through to Harry if he can just get him alone. Only then can he break the spell Megan's cast and bring his brother back to his senses.
47:40 Matt Forde? One week later, Nottingham Cottage. Harry sighs as he opens the door to find William on the other side. He silently turns and walks back to the living room, dismissively waving a hand.
47:53 Speaker 04 Look, if you're gonna have another go about beards or bloody baby brain, now is not the... I come in peace. I just want to talk about Meg and what's been happening.
48:03 Matt Forde? Harry feels a rush of relief. He sees Willie, by his latest source of misery on the coffee table. A spread in the Mail on Sunday that features extracts from a private letter Meghan sent to her father.
48:16 Speaker 04 Right, well, I'm sure you agree this is a new low. We're going to sue.
48:21 Matt Forde? William looks confused.
48:22 Speaker 04 No, sorry, I was referring to the ongoing complaints from the staff.
48:27 Matt Forde? Harry stiffens.
48:29 Speaker 04 Christ, Willie, like what? She's difficult, rude, abrasive.
48:35 Matt Forde? Harry rolls his eyes.
48:36 Speaker 04 They're just parroting tabloid crap.
48:41 Alice Levine? And is he? Because I know this made its way to the papers. But benefit of the doubt, is there a world where she's talking to people in a way that maybe it is like she's on set on one of her TV shows where she's talking to a PA and she's like, you know, can you get me a matcha latte or whatever? And actually, that's not how the palace works. But I'm not sure I would know how to talk to the servants and staff of a royal palace and know what the protocols are. I mean, has anyone taught her what to do?
49:08 Matt Forde? Well, that's right. You're going from one world, TV world, where people are at your beck and call, and you're going into another world where they sort of are, but it's just way more formal. And equerries and footmen are not TV studio runners. You can see how, at the very least, a culture clash would upset some people.
49:26 Alice Levine? Yeah, it's hard to know if there's also a personality thing in the mix there as well. But if you were being a little more sympathetic, you might say, okay, let us teach you the ways.
49:37 Matt Forde? William spins around.
49:39 Speaker 04 You can't keep blindly defending her. What is it about her that scares you so much? That she's American, successful in her own right? I suppose that would be quite threatening to someone whose own wife never had a real job.
49:52 Matt Forde? Harry sees the vein on Willie's temple throb as his face darkens.
49:57 Speaker 04 Don't you dare speak about Catherine like that. No one... Works harder.
50:01 Matt Forde? But Harry's not listening.
50:03 Speaker 04 You can't bear that Meg's completely outshone her, that we're the ones the public associate with mummy now.
50:08 Matt Forde? Willie's face contorts, and Harry knows he's gone too far. He feels the hairs on the back of his neck stand up, as Wills looks at him with pure hatred.
50:19 Speaker 04 Bullshit. It's time you woke up, you stupid fucking prick.
50:23 Matt Forde? Harry's jolted by his brother's fury. He decides to give him some breathing space, and heads into the kitchen. Hearing William's footsteps close behind him, he turns.
50:35 Speaker 04 Listen, Willie.
50:37 Matt Forde? Before he can utter another word, William grabs him by the collar. He feels a sharp pinch in his neck, realises his leather charm necklace has been ripped off. He touches his throat, tries to regroup, but now he's falling. Harry lands with a thud, crashing against the ceramic dog bowl. He feels it crack beneath him, the shards cutting into the skin on his back like daggers.
51:02 Speaker 04 Harry, I, uh...
51:03 Matt Forde? Harry stares at him, shakes his head.
51:06 Speaker 04 Get out.
51:07 Matt Forde? Tears prick Harry's eyes as William stumbles back, his face draining of colour.
51:12 Speaker 04 I said, get out.
51:15 Matt Forde? William hesitates a beat, then rushes to the door. Harry winces as he touches his bloodstained shirt. Then he pulls up a chair, rests his head in his hands, and sobs.
51:31 Matt Forde? It's dark by the time Harry hears Megan's key in the lock.
51:35 Matt Forde? Harry blinks rapidly, as Megan flicks the light on, and gasps at the state of him. What happened? As she rushes over, and envelops him in her arms, it hits Harry like a thunderbolt.
51:49 Speaker 04 I think we should separate from the Cambridge household. No more joint engagements or shared staff.
51:55 Matt Forde? They'll see it as a declaration of war, you do know that. Harry sits up straight. He's feeling stronger by the second.
52:03 Speaker 04 We could leave here, get some real distance.
52:07 Matt Forde? Seeing Meghan's face filled with relief, Harry has a moment of total clarity. He doesn't care if this emphasizes their rift with Willie and Kate. From now on, he's putting his family first, even if it means screwing his brother over, even if it means never speaking to his stupid brother again, even if doing so could destroy the very thing he was taught to hold most dear: the British royal family.
52:49 Matt Forde? From Audible Originals and Samistat Audio, this is the second episode in our series, Harry v. Wills.
52:54 Alice Levine? A quick note about our dialogue: in most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.
53:02 Matt Forde? If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read Spare by Prince Harry, Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of a Family in Tumult by Robert Lacey, and The Palace Papers by Tina Brown. You can watch Meghan vs. Kate: The Meeting That Changed the Monarchy on Channel 5, or you can watch Harry and Meghan's interview with Oprah Winfrey on ITVX.
53:23 Alice Levine? And if you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email us at [email protected] , and we love hearing from you.
53:29 Matt Forde? British Scandal is hosted by me, Matt Ford.
53:32 Alice Levine? And me, Alice Levine.
53:33 Matt Forde? Written by Wendy Granditer. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford.
53:38 Alice Levine? Our story editor was James Maniac. Sound design by Rich Evans. Our engineer was Jai Williams. For Samistat, our series producer was Chica Ayers. Our assistant producer was Louise Mason. Our senior producers were Joe Sykes and Dashalys Itzina. Executive producers for Audible were Theodora Leludis and Estelle Doyle.
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