The Big Lebowski with Seth Rogen

It’s the episode you’ve all been waiting for - Seth Rogen joins us to talk about the Coens’ 1998 stoner classic The Big Lebowski. It should come as no surprise that Lebowski has loomed large over Seth’s work as a writer and director, and we’re going in depth on the influence and lasting impact of The Dude. Make yourself a White Russian (but maybe take a Lactaid first), turn off The Eagles, and settle in for a hilarious three hours of film analysis and Hollywood anecdotes. Oh, and if you were wondering - in this episode, someone is made to answer for his crimes against Sammy Fabelman. Finally. Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm talking about the haws here. Sometimes there's a man. Well, let me take this again. Sorry.

• 1:45David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:46Griffin Newman?

  This is important.

• 1:47David Sims?

  Enough, Griffin.

• 1:48Griffin Newman?

  This is important.

• 1:50Speaker 04

  I'm talking about the Hoz here. Sometimes there's a podcast. Well, it's the podcast for its time and place. Fits right in there. And that's the Hoz in New Jersey. And even if it's a sloppy podcast and then Blank Check was most certainly that, quite possibly the sloppiest in New York City, which would place it high on the running for laziest worldwide, sloppiest worldwide. But sometimes there's a podcast. Sometimes there's a podcast. Oh, I lost my train of thought there, but oh hell, I done introduced it enough. I really could not get it.

• 2:28Speaker 05

  No, sorry.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  I was trying.

• 2:31Speaker 05

  I'd like you to keep trying.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  I for the next three hours. I could not get there.

• 2:36David Sims?

  Was he always like in Roadhouse? Does he talk like that? Like, was he always at that register? Basically, his whole life, Sam Elliott?

• 2:44Speaker 04

  I would say this movie is the moment that the Sam Elliott thing is kind of heightened in a way that SNL did for Christopher Walken. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 2:53Speaker 05

  I was also watching it at this time being like, I think I'm Sam Elliott's age.

• 2:58David Sims?

  Fuck, right. He's not that old in this movie.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  Okay, let's look it up. Let's do the math.

• 3:05Speaker 05

  It's a real bad.

• 3:06David Sims?

  You know what? He's 80 years old now. So he would have been, yeah, so he would have been like 44. No, 54?

• 3:14Speaker 04

  This movie's 98.

• 3:16David Sims?

  Oh, fuck, I'm so bad at math.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  You're not in your 50s.

• 3:18Speaker 05

  No, I'm 43.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  You're in the clear then.

• 3:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  I think you have some 54.

• 3:23David Sims?

  Okay, you got, you got, you got a decade before you.

• 3:26Speaker 05

  That's closer than you'd like.

• 3:28David Sims?

  You think you'd ever do a Western, like a fucking?

• 3:30Speaker 05

  To do a Western, that'd be cool.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  Do you know what I'm saying, though? Like, he always talked like this. And then I think this movie memified him in a way that like SNL did with Christopher Walken, where it's like,

• 3:41Speaker 05

  Well, also kind of Jeff Bridges.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We're using your voice as like a comedic instrument now. And then after that, that becomes the thing that people impersonate and then people hire him to do the version of it.

• 3:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:54Speaker 04

  Right. And I botch it.

• 3:56Speaker 05

  No, but I mean, he, he does it. The, the owner of the voice himself.

• 4:00Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely.

• 4:02David Sims?

  And then the thing in Star is Born is Bradley Cooper saying to him, like, I stole your voice.

• 4:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:06David Sims?

  In the movie, he says it.

• 4:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. I can do that better.

• 4:10David Sims?

  You can do, uh.

• 4:13David Sims?

  I gotta watch that again. I gotta Star is Born. I love that movie.

• 4:16Griffin Newman?

  You gotta get back in the shallows.

• 4:18David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, exactly. Hi.

• 4:20Griffin Newman?

  Hi. He gets the and in this movie.

• 4:23David Sims?

  Does he?

• 4:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 4:24David Sims?

  Okay.

• 4:24Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, it's a perfect and.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  And Sam Elliott.

• 4:27David Sims?

  And Sam Elliott.

• 4:28Griffin Newman?

  And Sam Elliott as the stranger.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  The stranger, which is a cool name.

• 4:32Griffin Newman?

  Have you ever gotten an and as?

• 4:34David Sims?

  Uh.

• 4:35Griffin Newman?

  You must have, right?

• 4:36Speaker 05

  I don't know. Maybe, maybe I've gotten.

• 4:37David Sims?

  Have you ever been like angrily on the phone that feels like a studio episode being like, if I don't get the fucking and as?

• 4:44Speaker 05

  More so, that's one of those things that like my, my agent feel very strongly about. It's like, I could give a fuck.

• 4:49David Sims?

  I do not want with.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  I don't care. I just know when we did Ninja Turtles recently, we had to give Paul Rudd like and introduce Paul Rudd wanted it introducing Paul Rudd.

• 4:59David Sims?

  That was good.

• 5:02Griffin Newman?

  Was it interesting as Mondo?

• 5:03Speaker 05

  I think it was an introducing Paul Rudd as Mondo.

• 5:05Griffin Newman?

  That's what I, what I like about the and as and is my favorite form of billing. What I like about it is it's not just the honorific of the and, right? You're the most important person who wasn't going to enter the top two or three. But also that it's like, and we're telling you this character is important. Either that it's like, for the first time, Paul Rudd is a saying, the legendary role of Mondo Gekko. Right? As if it's Leerties. Or the movie is just saying to you, the stranger is gonna matter.

• 5:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:33Griffin Newman?

  You don't know the stranger yet.

• 5:35Speaker 05

  He's gonna matter.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Keep your eye out for the stranger.

• 5:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 05

  And his name is the stranger, which also just instantly makes the movie cool. Cause you're like, oh, there's a character called the stranger.

• 5:43Griffin Newman?

  And he's already.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  Cool. That's cool.

• 5:44Griffin Newman?

  Talking.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  You've already heard him.

• 5:46Griffin Newman?

  He's been talking for minutes.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  It's already been him.

• 5:48Griffin Newman?

  He's, he's failing to land the plane.

• 5:50David Sims?

  Right. He's doing kind of a bad job at his one job.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  I want.

• 5:53Griffin Newman?

  He's kind of doing a Blank Check podcast intro. Uh, sorry, you were about to say.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  You know, the Jason Reitman used to do those live reads.

• 5:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:59Speaker 05

  I did one. I got, I did the one for.

• 6:01Griffin Newman?

  You did Ghostbusters.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I did the Bowski and, and Sam Elliott came and did his role.

• 6:07David Sims?

  Cause who can replace him?

• 6:08Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those.

• 6:10David Sims?

  So who were you?

• 6:11Speaker 05

  I was the dude.

• 6:11David Sims?

  You were the dude.

• 6:12Griffin Newman?

  You were the dude. Who was Walter?

• 6:14Speaker 05

  Walter was, I think, Rainn Wilson.

• 6:17Griffin Newman?

  Interesting. Yeah, I could see that. He can do the aggro.

• 6:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:21Griffin Newman?

  But you're in an interesting place because you could, I think.

• 6:23Speaker 05

  I think as I was doing it, I was like, I would have been better suited to be.

• 6:27Griffin Newman?

  It's one degree in either direction.

• 6:29Speaker 05

  Well, as I was doing it, I was like, the dude is pretty angry, like, pretty aggressive throughout the movie. Like, he is, he's not that mellow.

• 6:37Griffin Newman?

  It's part of the magic trick of this movie is that we, we talk a lot about the issue sometimes of making a movie where a character doesn't want to be in the movie.

• 6:45Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 6:46Griffin Newman?

  That is frustrating for the audience where the character is like stopping the movie from happening.

• 6:50Speaker 05

  Trying to perpetuate the plot of the movie itself, yeah.

• 6:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and is actively pushing back against it. And this is a movie where that's the whole motor of the thing. And it's just him being annoyed that the movie keeps showing up at his doorstep. And yet he's toeing this very specific line.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:05Griffin Newman?

  Of he plays his anger of just like, well, that's inconvenient.

• 7:09Speaker 05

  He makes one choice, which is he want, he, he goes to the other La Boustie to get his rug back.

• 7:15Griffin Newman?

  If he hadn't done that.

• 7:16Speaker 05

  The whole movie wouldn't have happened. And he's incensed. So as passive as a character and as like along for the ride as he is, he does active. He starts the movie actively. Like, he could have just been like, and it's almost more in character in some ways for him to have been like, these guys pissed on my rug. It was a misunderstanding, whatever, who cares? But instead, he's like incensed about it. And, and he wants a new rug.

• 7:40Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's right. It's.

• 7:41Speaker 05

  It's an injustice.

• 7:42Griffin Newman?

  It's perfect characterization that he can get punched in the face and be like, oh, come on, man.

• 7:47Speaker 05

  Care about that.

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  But the rug is like, I must do something about this.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  Tie the room together. One of the many insufferable quotes that people will never stop saying from this film. I myself too.

• 7:57Griffin Newman?

  It is a weird case. I, I will admit this. I, I, I'm a big Coen Brothers fan. Is this not a movie for you? It's not one of my like. Like you haven't seen this four hundred times. Right. And I have zero issues with it. And I think it's like another Coen Brothers masterpiece. I do feel like there is 5% of the world's most annoying people getting to me about this movie.

• 8:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:19Griffin Newman?

  I don't actually hold against the film. And I feel like on this rewatch, I did the. Kind of like complete brain wipe, just watch this as a film and ignore it. But it is funny to watch it and be like, this movie has become the Wizard of Oz.

• 8:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 8:33Griffin Newman?

  And that you can literally take any line or image or like character name. And like every element of this now is well established cultural shorthand.

• 8:43David Sims?

  What's our podcast called?

• 8:44Griffin Newman?

  Our podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 8:47David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 8:48Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes there's a man and sometimes there's a man.

• 8:52Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. This is a mini series on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen, together and separately. Today we are talking about The Big Lebowski, which I'm struggling to think if there's another example of this, which is a blank check cash in. Off at the time, their biggest success.

• 9:20David Sims?

  Sure.

• 9:20Griffin Newman?

  That is seen as an absolute bounce and then retroactively has become unquestionably their biggest film.

• 9:26David Sims?

  Yeah. To the point that if you even suggest it isn't, you're, you're a liar.

• 9:30Griffin Newman?

  You are. You're just like, that is, that is.

• 9:32David Sims?

  Fucking liar.

• 9:35David Sims?

  It's just weird that you're like, if you sit down and think about the Coens for a sec, you're like, yeah, you know, the crime movies, fucking raising Arizona, Fargo, No Country. You can think about that for a day and then you'd be like, ah shit, they made The Big Lebowski on top of all that. Like they created a whole other universe of like fans.

• 9:53Griffin Newman?

  It is the movie that everyone knows. We have, we have this rep.

• 9:56David Sims?

  You have the dude. I'm looking at him right now.

• 9:58Griffin Newman?

  We have the dude. I, I'm glad you noticed because that was a new addition to the menagerie. I recently purchased a dude.

• 10:04David Sims?

  Wait, where's the dude?

• 10:04Griffin Newman?

  I got a little dude.

• 10:05David Sims?

  Oh, there he is. I see him. Yeah. He's fucking like a foot tall. What the hell is that thing?

• 10:10Griffin Newman?

  You know, toys come in different scales. You're, you're, you collect a bit, right?

• 10:14David Sims?

  I do have a lot of stuff. Yes. Very much so. I was going to ask how articulatable he is, which is a real toy term.

• 10:19Griffin Newman?

  Great. And boy, am I thrilled. And I'll tell you what I'm most excited about now.

• 10:23David Sims?

  Points of articulation.

• 10:24Griffin Newman?

  Nope. I am excited by the fact that for the first time, this conversation is not causing David to hit his head on the table. Can't shut it down when you're asking.

• 10:34David Sims?

  No.

• 10:35Griffin Newman?

  When I bring it up, he goes, oh, fuck. No, I gotta get out of here.

• 10:39David Sims?

  My daughter took a toy from this shelf.

• 10:40Griffin Newman?

  I've been mean to ask you, what did she take?

• 10:42David Sims?

  Do you know? Have you noticed? I was wondering, because you've got 4,000 toys on this shelf.

• 10:45Griffin Newman?

  I'm aware, but I keep a Rolodex and I've not been able to.

• 10:48David Sims?

  He took, I believe it is Anakin Skywalker's Force Ghost in tiny.

• 10:53Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah, cool. Great.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  I thought you were gonna say Force Skin.

• 10:55David Sims?

  Yes, he took his Force Skin. People forget.

• 10:58Griffin Newman?

  His Wadonose.

• 10:58David Sims?

  Anakin Skywalker is cannot clearly uncircumcised until Attack of the Clone.

• 11:04Speaker 05

  George Lucas made a limited run.

• 11:07David Sims?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 11:08Griffin Newman?

  He was born with a Wadonose because downstairs, because Wadonose is father, and then as part of the Jedi ritual, they.

• 11:15Speaker 05

  What's funny, Griffin, is the only other time I've met you in person, I think, is you were dressed as.

• 11:19David Sims?

  You were Wado. He was. There's our Wado.

• 11:21Griffin Newman?

  We had been messaging and then you very kindly did the George Lucas talk show and you came backstage and I was already in the costume.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  You were already Wado.

• 11:29Griffin Newman?

  And I went, this is a very embarrassing way to me.

• 11:31Speaker 05

  I've had that. I used to present at the, they used to do, I don't even know, do they still do the MTV Movie Awards and stuff like that?

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  Now the MTV Movie and TV and Text Awards.

• 11:42Speaker 05

  Great. Meme Awards, Movie and Meme Awards, most memeable meme. And I've, I used to do the, like, it's so hard to get a laugh at those things. I would do the dumbest shit ever. And, and I, so I remember one year, like, my bit was that, like, I was, I was all, like, roided out or something. And so I was in this, like, insane giant muscle bodysuit. And I remember meeting for the first time so many people. I was a big, I met, like, Kendrick Lamar for the first time. And all these people as I'm in.

• 12:14David Sims?

  Is this you?

• 12:14Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:16Griffin Newman?

  You're with Zach.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  Giant stupid muscle bodysuit. And I'm trying to be normal. I'm like, hey, big fan. So nice to meet you. This is part of a bit. I'm doing a bit. I haven't done it yet. It's coming up. Please.

• 12:28David Sims?

  You have two MTV Movie Awards. Did you know that?

• 12:30Speaker 05

  No.

• 12:31David Sims?

  You have one for Best Musical Sequence in This Is the End.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:35David Sims?

  And then one for Best WTF Moment in Neighbors.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  I don't know what that was.

• 12:39David Sims?

  What was the moment?

• 12:40Speaker 05

  I, I.

• 12:41Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 12:41Speaker 05

  I can't.

• 12:42Griffin Newman?

  I think I said.

• 12:43Speaker 05

  I think physically. One of them is in our office. I don't know.

• 12:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  I don't know what happened.

• 12:46David Sims?

  You and Rose won it, so maybe.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  Rose took it.

• 12:49Griffin Newman?

  That was the moment though.

• 12:51Speaker 05

  Wasn't me milking her, maybe?

• 12:52David Sims?

  Possibly. That's, that's a, that's a moment.

• 12:54Speaker 05

  If I had to choose a moment.

• 12:55David Sims?

  That's a hashtag WTF moment.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  Hashtag WTF.

• 12:57David Sims?

  I just love looking at the MTV because it's like the Oscars. It's like, yeah, we've handed out these awards for a hundred years. And the MTV is like, I don't know, every couple of years we're like, should we do WTF moments?

• 13:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:06David Sims?

  Like, forget it, forget it.

• 13:07Speaker 05

  They tried. Don't do that anymore. Best kiss. They're like, this is gross.

• 13:10David Sims?

  Yeah, now they don't do best kiss.

• 13:11Griffin Newman?

  Now it's back. Yeah.

• 13:13David Sims?

  Oh, fuck. What was I gonna say? Well, who's our guest?

• 13:15Griffin Newman?

  Well, I got a lot of things to say here. We've already established a lot on the table. Our guest today is Seth Rogen.

• 13:19David Sims?

  Hey Seth.

• 13:20Griffin Newman?

  And I'm gonna leave with the credits. I was curious, there's an account that does the cataloging of actors and how many times we've covered them on this podcast.

• 13:29David Sims?

  Well, sure.

• 13:29Griffin Newman?

  Updated week to week. And I was curious what the Seth Rogen Blank Check Canon is.

• 13:33Speaker 05

  I bet.

• 13:34David Sims?

  Like movies we've covered.

• 13:35Griffin Newman?

  Which I'm gonna list as your credits, okay?

• 13:36Speaker 05

  My assumption is Steve Jobs and the Fabelman's.

• 13:38Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 13:39Speaker 05

  And that's it.

• 13:39Griffin Newman?

  Can you name the third one?

• 13:41Speaker 05

  There's a Donnie, not Donnie Dark.

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 13:42David Sims?

  Not yet, although I'd love to do him.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  Is it an animated movie that?

• 13:45Griffin Newman?

  It is. It is.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  It is.

• 13:48Griffin Newman?

  It is. Sometimes people pretend it isn't.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  Really?

• 13:51Griffin Newman?

  That's my hint. And it was not covered as part of covering that director. We weirdly did it as a one-off.

• 13:57David Sims?

  You talking about The Lion King?

• 13:58Griffin Newman?

  I'm talking about The Lion King.

• 14:00Speaker 05

  The fir- the first one?

• 14:01Griffin Newman?

  The main theme.

• 14:02David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 14:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Favreau Lion King. Yeah.

• 14:05David Sims?

  Um.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  I'm in that as well.

• 14:07David Sims?

  Yeah, I forgot. I forgot you're in Donnie Dark. You're just mean at a bus stop in Donnie Dark.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  I'm in a few scenes. I killed Jenna Malone. I throw Jenna Malone.

• 14:14Griffin Newman?

  You're the murderer.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  And she gets hit by a car. Yeah.

• 14:17Griffin Newman?

  Wow. Oh, Jesus.

• 14:18David Sims?

  It's a mess.

• 14:20Griffin Newman?

  But then we also, we also on this podcast.

• 14:22Speaker 05

  Movies are, you, you should know it's not real.

• 14:25David Sims?

  Wait a second.

• 14:26Griffin Newman?

  They're two of all people.

• 14:27David Sims?

  Why didn't you do that to Steven Spielberg?

• 14:29Speaker 05

  You guys, you've done so many episodes.

• 14:31David Sims?

  How does it feel that you are the architect of Steven Spielberg's like artistic career and that you, you know, fell in love with his mom?

• 14:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:40David Sims?

  And like, which made him make movies.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  Which made him.

• 14:42David Sims?

  According to that movie.

• 14:43Speaker 05

  He restored him into it before that, but it seemed like he had inclinations to make, he was filming the train before.

• 14:49David Sims?

  He was filming that. You're right. You're right. You're right.

• 14:50Griffin Newman?

  Do you watch E.T. and go like, thank God?

• 14:53Speaker 05

  Thank God I did that. Thank God I did that.

• 14:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  If it wasn't for me.

• 14:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 05

  Dude, making those choices.

• 15:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  None of this would have happened. Uh, yeah, no, it's, uh, it's, it's weird that that happened.

• 15:05Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 15:08David Sims?

  Did Spielberg say that like for that role? He's like, it's this one's a weird one.

• 15:12Speaker 05

  Well, you know what's funny is I actually feel like as we were filming, I feel like he sort of had it contextualized one way. And then as we were filming it and like bringing it to life, he sort of started to maybe at times see how weird it was like, like, like, I think in his head, he's like, yeah, we were all on a camping trip and my mom and this guy are sort of like canoodling a little bit, which I think like in your head is one way. And then I think like as, as, as we were actually recreating it, there was moments where I felt, maybe I was protecting it, but I felt him feeling like, oh, this is maybe more fucked up. It almost became like a shutter island as he was actually forcing people to act. Actually like changed the tone. I think to his credit, he like would go with it and like kind of changed the tone of the scene a little bit from being like, I feel like in the script, it was almost like cutesy.

• 15:56Speaker 05

  And then when brought to life, it was much more tragic.

• 15:59David Sims?

  Yeah. Why not, you know, to be serious, why that movie rocks? Cause it is dark, but not in like an over the top way.

• 16:06Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's even like the music and stuff like, again, it's one of those things where, I mean, it's, it's a rare gift to have like John Williams like score a movie.

• 16:14David Sims?

  Score your face.

• 16:15Speaker 05

  Here is score your face. And, and yeah, just to see like, oh, like even in my head, I was like, oh, these scenes are so much more sad now with all this stuff. But yeah, it's weird. The whole thing is weird. I sat next to John Williams at the Oscars that year. I talked to him for like five hours straight. Really?

• 16:31David Sims?

  That's incredible.

• 16:31Speaker 05

  Unbelievable. That completely rocks. Yeah. It was so cool. One of the greatest like of that whole failings experience. Like that was honestly one of the coolest things was just like, cause I didn't meet him throughout the whole process really. And then I was like, I show up at the Oscars, they're like, oh, you're, you're sitting next to John Williams and it was incredible. Does he get really annoyed when he loses? God fucking damn it. No, he genuinely just seemed happy. He's fucking all quiet on the western front. He's like. Yeah, he kept punching the scene in front of him that Donnie Yen was sitting in.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  Um, no, and it's sort of connected to this is I actually talked to him a lot about one of my other favorite sort of hapless detective films, The Long Goodbye.

• 17:15David Sims?

  Right, of course. Amazing score.

• 17:17Speaker 05

  Right, and does one of my favorite, it does something, it's funny, because I've always loved how that movie takes this. They wrote a song, The Long Goodbye, and they use it in different genres in different times of the film. And like, when they're in Mexico, there's like a funeral procession playing like, sort of like a sad Spanish version.

• 17:34David Sims?

  Right, there's like a music.

• 17:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm like, when they're in the elevator, when they're in the grocery store, there's like the music version of it and all this stuff. And I asked, I was like, how did you guys think of that? And he was like, it was just an idea that me and Robert Otman came up with. And he's like, what's funny is we thought everyone was gonna start doing it. Like, we were like, this is gonna be a thing. Like, this is gonna like, create a like, musical revolution in movies where people like, realize you could sort of do this. And then he's like, then nobody ever did it ever again. Uh, but it's great.

• 18:03David Sims?

  It's probably a pain in the ass.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's probably hard, yeah.

• 18:05Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I was trying to do a Letterboxd list once of movies where the same song is played multiple times and the context changes, which is a little different than the song changes.

• 18:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:16Griffin Newman?

  But both exist.

• 18:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:18Griffin Newman?

  Something about Mary almost does a version of that.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, with those guys.

• 18:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 05

  In the tree, the, the singing guys, they kind of do.

• 18:26Griffin Newman?

  They're kind of different songs, but they're kind of all evolutions of the same song.

• 18:29David Sims?

  I have not seen that movie in like, 25 years.

• 18:31Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that movie is a 10 out of 10 knockout?

• 18:33David Sims?

  I remember loving it.

• 18:34Speaker 05

  I love them.

• 18:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  That movie is one of like, the most like revelatory experiences I had in a movie theater in my life.

• 18:41Griffin Newman?

  Mind blow.

• 18:42David Sims?

  I feel like that's right before, like, you're in Hollywood, right? Like, that's like, a year before.

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Right, yeah, yeah. And I, we were already like, I think, writing super bad, but I remember seeing that and being like, oh my god.

• 18:53David Sims?

  This is allowed.

• 18:54Speaker 05

  You can, we can push this so much further than I thought maybe we could. It's all that shot where you see his dick and balls in the scene.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  It's insane.

• 19:01Speaker 05

  Like, that, to me, is like. It's like there's the fucking like Obelisk in 2001. Like, you know, there's like, to me, that is like deserves like in

• 19:12David Sims?

  I

• 19:13Speaker 05

  As far as comedy goes, that is like one of the most like boundary pushing iconic shots.

• 19:18David Sims?

  And then they do it five minutes.

• 19:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, that they're like. Yeah, and they really, the joke is so clearly, and it's so smart. And I love jokes that like play off of your expectations as an audience member, which is like, oh, the joke is that you're not going to see it. And that they keep describing this horrific thing.

• 19:34David Sims?

  Right. And they say all these.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  And everyone's describing it and everyone's.

• 19:38Griffin Newman?

  They're also describing it a way that sounds impossible where you're like, they couldn't physically show me.

• 19:41Speaker 05

  They're describing, oh, the franks above the beat. So Jake, the zipper's all the way down. And it keeps getting grosser and grosser. And then they show it and it's somehow in that like one brief image, you see everything that everyone's been talking about.

• 19:54Griffin Newman?

  Like Kyoto Brothers, like puppet insert shot. But then the thing that's so revolutionary is from that moment on in the movie, you're like, they could show me.

• 20:01Speaker 05

  They could do anything. All bets are off.

• 20:03Griffin Newman?

  Anything could be shown in any sliding scale of reality.

• 20:07Speaker 05

  It's like in a horror movie when you do something really scary up front and you're like, oh, the stakes.

• 20:12Griffin Newman?

  It's Tru Bear more getting killed.

• 20:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, you're like, anyone could die at any minute. And in that movie, it's.

• 20:16David Sims?

  It's funny that we're talking about that movie because that movie came out the same year as The Big Lebowski.

• 20:20Griffin Newman?

  Was the comedy hit of 1998.

• 20:22David Sims?

  Right. It came out probably like, uh, Big Lebowski was in March. So it came out in like summer.

• 20:27Griffin Newman?

  July.

• 20:27David Sims?

  It's, uh, July. But it's funny how, right. At the time, everyone was like Big Lebowski. Everyone was like, yeah.

• 20:33Griffin Newman?

  The, the next several years of comedy are people chasing Mary. That was the kind of like, in a way that I'd say Forty Year Old Virgin was one of those, you know, Hangover was one of those where it's just like, this is now the thing that everyone's chasing. This movie has come out, feels like it's like a shot from the dark. And now everyone wants to follow this trend. I, I, that Mary was so revelatory for me. I went home and like young Sammy Fabelman with the train set.

• 20:57Speaker 05

  Recreated the nuts shot.

• 20:59David Sims?

  Experimenting.

• 21:01Speaker 05

  In the mirror, ripping your nuts up.

• 21:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 05

  Almost got it.

• 21:04Griffin Newman?

  To answer your question, the Big Lebowski action figure.

• 21:07David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, sure. There you go.

• 21:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Ben put it down on the desk. So it was, this is from 2008. It's from the 10th anniversary of the movie, which I really feel like was when the big Lebowski

• 21:17Speaker 05

  Really catch on.

• 21:18Griffin Newman?

  Had become mainstream and Universal was like, we can put this on anything? We can sell everything with Lebowski quotes on it? It's meant to sort of be a riff on like a fucking kid robot urban vinyl figure?

• 21:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, it looks a little.

• 21:31Griffin Newman?

  So that's why it's limited articulation and kind of caricatured.

• 21:35Speaker 05

  It's almost more of a statue.

• 21:36Griffin Newman?

  But, but it's, I argue it's in a little bit of a weird middle ground.

• 21:40Speaker 05

  It is, I agree.

• 21:41Griffin Newman?

  It's a little too, it's solid.

• 21:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:43Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't have the road of vinyl construction.

• 21:45Speaker 05

  To be like an art piece, but it's not articulatable enough to be a fun toy.

• 21:50Griffin Newman?

  It's just the arms and the head.

• 21:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:52Griffin Newman?

  David, you're such a Philistine. You don't know what you're talking about.

• 21:54David Sims?

  I know, I don't.

• 21:55Griffin Newman?

  I just won a best offer for the, the Walter, which I think is a little better.

• 21:59David Sims?

  Okay. Just to complete my thing.

• 22:01Griffin Newman?

  It is good.

• 22:02David Sims?

  You have all these, can you describe to me what the Anakin ghost is from?

• 22:06Griffin Newman?

  They're called Disney dorables.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  Disney dorables.

• 22:09David Sims?

  They're like an inch tall.

• 22:11Griffin Newman?

  They're like an inch tall. They're like adorables, but you call them dorables because they come in a little cardboard blind box where it's like.

• 22:16David Sims?

  You mostly have living Star Wars characters up there.

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 22:20David Sims?

  But you have three ghosts. You have Yoda, right?

• 22:23Griffin Newman?

  It was a special set. It came in a tin.

• 22:25Speaker 05

  Of the dead.

• 22:25Griffin Newman?

  That looks like a, yes, it's all the ghosts.

• 22:27David Sims?

  And she took him and, and she's like, who's this?

• 22:30Griffin Newman?

  But it's Hayden, right?

• 22:32David Sims?

  Well, that's the thing. It looks, it's, so I said it was Obi-Wan because I was just kind of thrown.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  It's not Jake Lloyd.

• 22:38Griffin Newman?

  It's not Jake Lloyd.

• 22:39Speaker 05

  He didn't die when he was, it'd be weird if he died and he came back as a ghost as Jake Lloyd.

• 22:43David Sims?

  He fucking dies in the pot, like.

• 22:44Griffin Newman?

  Can you imagine? If that's, if George Lucas had gone fucking Glorious Bastards on episode one, the movie ends with Anakin being murdered and you're like, what are these movies?

• 22:53Speaker 05

  That would have been cool.

• 22:55David Sims?

  Uh, so she calls it Obi-Wan. It's a prized toy for her. It's like a big deal for her.

• 22:59Griffin Newman?

  She knows who Obi-Wan is.

• 23:00David Sims?

  Well, she knows that thing's called Obi-Wan, which of course he's not actually called Obi-Wan, but whatever. I'm willing to let that slide because he is at least a forced ghost.

• 23:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:07David Sims?

  And I think it's cute that she says Obi-Wan.

• 23:09Griffin Newman?

  I do too. And I think if she was gonna take one, that's probably the one I, I.

• 23:13David Sims?

  It's just funny that she was confronted with this wall of toys and she was like.

• 23:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Also, Ercicson was taking all of those. I think we were playing with them.

• 23:21David Sims?

  Were they possibly?

• 23:22Griffin Newman?

  Upstairs.

• 23:23Speaker 05

  What is the Total Recall thing?

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  That was the DVD release of Total Recall.

• 23:28Speaker 05

  Oh, was that the DVD itself?

• 23:29Griffin Newman?

  It was packaged in. In like Mars? In Mars.

• 23:32Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 23:33Griffin Newman?

  It was when Lionsgate was like, we're gonna really fucking experiment with the form. And I think the big thing was they paid Schwarzenegger like half a million dollars to do the commentary.

• 23:42Speaker 05

  Oh, that's funny. Isn't it amazing?

• 23:44Griffin Newman?

  It's good.

• 23:45Speaker 05

  I love that. I love that movie.

• 23:47Griffin Newman?

  Schwarzenegger's just smoking a cigar and Verhoeven's making a bunch of sexist comments.

• 23:51Speaker 05

  Sounds amazing to me.

• 23:53Griffin Newman?

  But it felt like.

• 23:54Speaker 05

  It's right up my alley.

• 23:55Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna be the new thing of like, big salaries for commentaries?

• 23:58Speaker 05

  Right, right, right.

• 23:59Griffin Newman?

  And then Lionsgate was like, everything's packaged weird. Basic Instinct came with a pen that looked like the ice pick.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  Really?

• 24:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yes, I remember that. This is the thing, speaking of collecting, I think about this a lot. And my aspiration is to someday be someone who may be married. I remember an interview with you years ago where you said, the rule I have with my wife is if it's a character she doesn't know, it can't be in the living room.

• 24:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, there had to be like a communal, like I have an office where like I had a big collection of this stuff. Memorabilia?

• 24:29Griffin Newman?

  Memorabilia.

• 24:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, sure. Collectibles?

• 24:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  And yeah, and once we moved in together, what could be in like communal spaces became a real topic of conversation.

• 24:40Griffin Newman?

  Right, like the Hulk can be there, but Doc Samson can't.

• 24:43Speaker 05

  Yes, exactly. But then it eventually just sort of segued into us like both sort of buying like things together, which actually became much nicer. And we sort of started collecting like art. We would go to like little art shows and buy things together, which, cause, which was nice. So like we found a way to bond over our collecting.

• 25:00Griffin Newman?

  What a sweet story.

• 25:01Speaker 05

  Yes, it's lovely. Like the Fabelman's.

• 25:07Griffin Newman?

  So your friend David Krumholtz.

• 25:08Speaker 05

  Yes, was on this podcast.

• 25:10Griffin Newman?

  Was on this podcast.

• 25:11Speaker 05

  It was great. I love a wonder on Seven of the Seven.

• 25:14Griffin Newman?

  Seven of the Seven.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  That was amazing.

• 25:15Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. One of our most normal episodes. We are eager to have him on again. Krumholtz keeps texting me, I can't believe you guys haven't done Wolfgang Peterson yet. We should do Wolfgang. How have you done Wolfgang? I gotta do Wolfgang. Who does he? What's his Wolfgang? Any Wolfgang.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  Okay, well, all right.

• 25:29Griffin Newman?

  It started with, I missed Wolfgang, right? You guys must have done it years ago.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  That's funny.

• 25:35Griffin Newman?

  I got that text.

• 25:36David Sims?

  You must have done Wolfgang.

• 25:37Griffin Newman?

  We haven't. And now every couple of months it's Angorite. You still haven't done Wolfgang?

• 25:41David Sims?

  He can do Enemy Mine.

• 25:43Speaker 05

  Rogen Wolfgang Peters?

• 25:44Griffin Newman?

  No, that's John Frankenheimer.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  I get Wolfgang Peterson and John Frankenheimer confused.

• 25:49Griffin Newman?

  They were in a similar place in the 90s.

• 25:51Speaker 05

  Doss Boot?

• 25:52Griffin Newman?

  Doss Boot is Wolfgang.

• 25:54David Sims?

  That's his like, you know.

• 25:55Speaker 05

  What are the big married? What? A Perfect Storm?

• 25:58David Sims?

  Perfect Storm, Air Force One.

• 26:00Speaker 05

  Air Force One.

• 26:01Griffin Newman?

  In the line of fire.

• 26:02Speaker 05

  In the line of fire.

• 26:03David Sims?

  He actually, fuck, should we do Wolfgang? He does kinda rock.

• 26:06Griffin Newman?

  Kremholt's booked for every Wolfgang episode.

• 26:09David Sims?

  And of course he did Neverending Story.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, if we did him the Neverending Story, we could do like a 10 hour.

• 26:16David Sims?

  A never ending episode.

• 26:17Griffin Newman?

  Do you know he always complain that these episodes are too short?

• 26:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's me. I always complain.

• 26:21Griffin Newman?

  Um, but then you message shortly after that and say, hey, Kremholt's got me into the podcast. I've been listening.

• 26:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 26:27Griffin Newman?

  And then we've been messaging back and forth since then. You did George Lucas very kindly. We've been trying to find the right thing to do. You did a Letterboxd top four on some red carpet.

• 26:37Speaker 05

  Some red carpet.

• 26:37Griffin Newman?

  And you named this.

• 26:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:39Griffin Newman?

  Alongside Clueless, which we have just covered.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, which was a great episode as well.

• 26:43Griffin Newman?

  Thank you. And I'm trying to remember what your other two were.

• 26:45Speaker 05

  I don't even remember. I kind of threw them out. I usually say the last detail because it like offsets the like lack of fanciness in my other choices. And I often say Terminator two, which might have been the other one that might have been the other one.

• 26:57David Sims?

  Last detail Terminator two.

• 27:00Griffin Newman?

  That's a killer four.

• 27:01Speaker 05

  That's a pretty good four. I'm really a child of the 90s.

• 27:04David Sims?

  Chase had really good. I'm watching, now I'm watching the entire studio cast.

• 27:07Speaker 05

  Great taste.

• 27:08David Sims?

  Oh, and Catherine had really good.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  Catherine Hahn also is really good. Yeah, I watched those. Yeah.

• 27:13Griffin Newman?

  Last Detail is kind of feels like a big Coen inspiration in a lot of ways.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  I mean, I think if you look at, I mean, The Last Detail and The Big Lebowski and Superbad and Pineapple Express also, there's a lot of similarities in those movies. And it's like, not a coincidence. Like, we were really. Inspired by, and we love The Big Lebowski. So did you guys see it like in theaters?

• 27:34David Sims?

  I definitely did not. I was remembering, so I was, I was 12 when this came out. How old, you're a couple of years old in that.

• 27:40Speaker 05

  I was 16.

• 27:41David Sims?

  So you must have seen it in theaters?

• 27:43Speaker 05

  No, what's funny is I didn't like, it looked, it's because the whole marketing campaign for it.

• 27:48David Sims?

  Like bad.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  Was fucking crazy.

• 27:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 27:51Speaker 05

  And they really leaned into like the fantasy sequences.

• 27:54David Sims?

  The fantasy and the bowling.

• 27:56Speaker 05

  The marketing was about the bowling and it was like the women with the bowling things on their heads.

• 28:00David Sims?

  You were like this king poster.

• 28:02Speaker 05

  And the poster, the poster was crazy.

• 28:04David Sims?

  It gives you nothing.

• 28:05Speaker 05

  I actually remember going to school and some of my friends having seen it and they're like, it's a stoner. He's so sweet. It's a stoner detective movie. And I was like, what? And they were like, it's like a stoner movie. And he's like caught in this big funny thing. And there's these people, they're cutting toes off and, and, and, and I was like, oh, this sounds funny. And then I remember watching and being like, oh, this was like the worst marketed movie in the entire fucking world.

• 28:35David Sims?

  And yet you're like, how do you like it? This was the British poster, which is even worse. It's just the two of them.

• 28:41Speaker 05

  Just with a toe, with a toe, with a toe missing.

• 28:44David Sims?

  They really tried to push like a girl's toe gets cut off.

• 28:47Speaker 05

  Know what to do with this.

• 28:47David Sims?

  Which like, why would anyone? And it was rated 18 in Britain because John Goodman bites someone's ear off.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  That's crazy.

• 28:54David Sims?

  The British rating board, like remember Mike Tyson? I was gonna say.

• 28:57Speaker 05

  We don't want anyone biting ears. It was a sensitive time for ear biting. Children are gonna be biting ears at playgrounds.

• 29:03David Sims?

  It's like child's play too.

• 29:05Speaker 05

  Right. That's really.

• 29:06David Sims?

  So I couldn't see it in theaters. I, and so I too probably discovered it as Seth did, like on video, like a two or years, you know, you're.

• 29:14Speaker 05

  I thought right when it come out of it. I remember like, like as by the time it was like on video, it had gotten out that it was like a, a actually a cool movie.

• 29:23David Sims?

  I probably saw it around 2003. Which I feel like that is when its cult status had been completely cemented. Like it, it became a college thing. And by the time I got to college in like 2004.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  It was some, I moved to LA in 1999 and, and I remember going and hanging out at that bowling alley a lot because

• 29:45Griffin Newman?

  Is it still there?

• 29:45Speaker 05

  No, it was knocked down, but they, all those like neon stars were like made for the movie, but they left them there.

• 29:54Griffin Newman?

  That's

• 29:54Speaker 05

  So they were

• 29:55Griffin Newman?

  Hollywood Star

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, Hollywood Star Lanes. And so, and they would have like, like, you know, like buck 99 white Russians, basically, and which is not a drink you should drink a lot of by any stretch of the imagination, because it's mostly milk, milk and vodka. And so, um, but we would go there all the time and we would go bowling and we would drink white Russians and we just like, uh, and because we love the movie like, so like there was a, a group of us who were fans at that time and enough people were fans at that time that there was like a little subculture of people, um, that like would go to that bowling

• 30:31Griffin Newman?

  But I was gonna say, at that moment in time, that's almost more like the Popeye Malta Village of like, what are we gonna tear this down?

• 30:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, we gotta leave it.

• 30:38Griffin Newman?

  Let's just market to the people who did like this weird movie.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:41Griffin Newman?

  Versus if that place had stayed open another five years.

• 30:44Speaker 05

  Oh, it would have become like

• 30:45Griffin Newman?

  It would have gotten landmark status.

• 30:47Speaker 05

  It would have been insane, but it was literally knocked down by the time the movie had like a big, yeah, because like it wasn't hard to get a lane there. Like it wasn't like, it wasn't a big line.

• 30:54Griffin Newman?

  It's huge. It's like 32 lanes. I want to go to Jackie Treehorn's house, which has been in a ton of movies.

• 31:00Speaker 05

  I've been there.

• 31:01Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna ask if you've been

• 31:02David Sims?

  Does someone own it?

• 31:03Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  There you go.

• 31:04Speaker 05

  It's called the Sheed House by John Lautner, uh, who designed all the, all the homes in the studio we film in are John

• 31:10Griffin Newman?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 31:12Speaker 05

  Very, very

• 31:12Griffin Newman?

  It feels like where you live.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. They're the same architect. Um, but it's one of the most, uh, this is one of the most famous houses in LA. Um, and it's not on the beach in Malibu as they make it appear to be.

• 31:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. He, they walk from the beach to

• 31:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, they, which is pretty clever, um, how they shoot it, but it, it's actually overlooking the city. It has an amazing view and is, uh, yes, this incredible concrete house with this very kind of famous like honeycomb concrete roof and these like built in

• 31:38David Sims?

  Yeah, it's got these this roof with these little skyline like these tiny.

• 31:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's an amazing house. It's really, really cool. And this guy, the guy who built it, who commissioned it from John Lautner, still lives in it. And he's

• 31:51David Sims?

  Wild. Okay.

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Kooky old dude who like mostly rents out the house for like movies and photo shoots and stuff like

• 31:58David Sims?

  He's a big like.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  I'm glad isn't like Conor McGregor owns it now. No, exactly. Yeah. The Nelk Boys.

• 32:06Speaker 05

  It's it's not. No, it's the actual Goldstein, the guy.

• 32:10David Sims?

  Yes, James Goldstein. He's like a guy who goes to Laker games. He's a rich guy.

• 32:14Speaker 05

  I've filmed there. I've done photo shoots there. I've done. But yeah, I filmed. Well, I filmed there like a whole couple of days with Will Ferrell on something once. And like, it was amazing. Like, it's one of the fun parts about shooting. Like, you get to sort of like, just be in these houses.

• 32:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 05

  So like, you sort of get to like, experience what it's like to really occupy time in these amazing. And that house is truly amazing. But it's, to me, most famous from this movie. It's in a lot of other movies.

• 32:38David Sims?

  I think it's in Charlie's.

• 32:39Speaker 05

  I was gonna say in Charlie's Angels, I think they they live in it. Is it Tim Rothko's house?

• 32:43David Sims?

  Maybe.

• 32:44Speaker 05

  No, he lives in the chemosphere, which is another John Lautner house, which is, it looks, it's like a house standing on a single.

• 32:53David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is, it's Troy McClure's house in The Simpsons.

• 32:57Speaker 05

  Yes. There's another movie. Maybe it's a Palma movie.

• 33:03David Sims?

  I'm looking it up. Yes, it's Body Double.

• 33:05Speaker 05

  Body Double is also shot in the in the chemosphere house. Yeah.

• 33:08David Sims?

  Correct. Oh, my God. It's.

• 33:09Speaker 05

  All good houses. All good houses.

• 33:11David Sims?

  And so wait, so where's your studio house? What's that one called?

• 33:14Speaker 05

  That one is on Jeremy Scott, the guy who owned Moschino, the fashion line, now lives in it. It's in the hills, right about Silver. The one we shot the Sarah Polly episode in is called The Silver Top House. And the one that Catherine O'Hara lives in is another. With the pool. With the pool, yeah, is another waterhouse. They're all amazing houses and they're very cinematic. And that's why we wanted to film in them because they are like in a lot of movies that we thought it'd be like cinematically kind of.

• 33:47David Sims?

  Also, the best thing about this video is that it looks good. I mean, like, I mean, you're very funny and it's brilliant.

• 33:53Griffin Newman?

  Like, those are amazing spaces to explore in real time.

• 33:57Speaker 05

  Oh, fully, yeah. And they're designed in such a way that they're meant to be walked through. And so like, they really have this like compression and expansion and, and, and like unconventional layouts that sort of are fun to unravel and sort of as you turn a corner, reveals a whole new space. And, and yeah, we really like piggybacked off of the design of these houses.

• 34:20Griffin Newman?

  I, I will say this, I have talked in, in the 10 years of doing this podcast of Decade of Dreams, I've talked greasy about the city of Los Angeles.

• 34:28David Sims?

  You mean, you should talk to LA, sure.

• 34:30Griffin Newman?

  When I go to LA, people are like, we know you hate it here. And I'm like, oh God, I built that reputation for myself. A lot of that is very defensively as a young man trying to work in the entertainment industry, being like, I want to stay in New York.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  A lot of people have that. I've seen that. I've seen a lot.

• 34:43Griffin Newman?

  Right. I feel like this has dissipated now.

• 34:45Speaker 05

  Get ground down.

• 34:46Griffin Newman?

  Post pandemic, but I had like 10 years of people being like, are you not serious about your career? And I was just like, I kind of still want to live here. I need to be.

• 34:54Speaker 05

  Totally live in New York and have a career.

• 34:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I, that was my.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  As you've proven, as a employed housed man.

• 35:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 35:03Speaker 05

  He's housed.

• 35:05Griffin Newman?

  I, I love, I am housed. I love the studio. I think it's incredible show. It's like a beautiful panic attack. When I watch it, I'm like, these are all the reasons I don't want to live in LA. The way this show feels, it's this, these are all my anxieties. When I watched Big Lebowski, I'm like, this is everything I love about it.

• 35:21David Sims?

  It's a real love letter to LA, maybe to a slightly bygone LA.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's the LA I actually moved into. Like, it, it could not be more, yeah, like, the, like, because I moved to LA 1999. Like, I moved into the Big Lebowski's LA.

• 35:37David Sims?

  Truly. I think about Knocked Up. And like how you guys live in that big house with the pool that's like shitty.

• 35:43Griffin Newman?

  Like the birthday boys.

• 35:44David Sims?

  Right. And it's like, that's what I, that was my old impression of L A is like, yeah, you can kind of, there's burnouts and weirdos and like, it's so spread out that you can find all these pockets of.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:53David Sims?

  People like the dude who just kind of like, what do they do all day? I don't know. The drive around like, doesn't fucking do anything.

• 35:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Right. But it's like, I'm allergic to Entourage L A.

• 36:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yes. That's a bad L A.

• 36:03Griffin Newman?

  Studio L A is the L A I have the love hate relationship with.

• 36:05David Sims?

  Entourage, that showed a bad vibe for you? It was kind of aggro?

• 36:09Griffin Newman?

  I love the characters, just to be clear. And I endorse all of their actions.

• 36:11Speaker 05

  I love the characters and their choices.

• 36:13Griffin Newman?

  Their viewpoints.

• 36:14Speaker 05

  It's just the cars and the buildings.

• 36:15Griffin Newman?

  And their work. Most importantly, I admire their artistic work.

• 36:18Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 36:19Griffin Newman?

  Um, no, but this movie, I'm like, this is all the stuff I like in L A when I go visit and I hang out with my friends who are like this.

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Who are unemployed.

• 36:26Griffin Newman?

  And they take me to places like this. And the nights have these vibes minus the conspiracy.

• 36:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  No, it's exactly, yeah, like going to Ralph's in the middle, like that to me was a real quintessential thing, which might be a visual reference to the long goodbye now that I think of it. Cause it also starts with him at the grocery store, but I think that that was, to me, that was like, a sort of like a stoner in L A. In the like, being at Ralph's at three in the morning and like an empty store, like is such a familiar feeling to me, you know?

• 36:58Griffin Newman?

  So much of Long Goodbye.

• 36:59Speaker 05

  Like I would do my grocery shopping at two in the morning.

• 37:01Griffin Newman?

  Would you pay my check?

• 37:03Speaker 05

  Exactly. I probably did.

• 37:06Griffin Newman?

  So much of Long Goodbye has that of.

• 37:08Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 37:09Griffin Newman?

  Like this tiny figure in this big wide frame, just wandering around mumbling to himself, doing banal tasks, right?

• 37:16Speaker 05

  The movies are, are inextricably linked to one another. And it's funny, cause like, it is funny, cause I feel like Lebowski is kind of viewed as like, I don't know, satire is the right word. Sort of like a, a, yeah, like a comedic take on these, uh, yeah, more self-aware take on these detective movies.

• 37:35Griffin Newman?

  Character you could place into that type of story.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  Exactly. And, and the long goodbye is also sort of like, it can be like, like, and he's smart in that, I guess, is the only difference. And he's like, a little more capable maybe, but like, it very much is a similar vibe where it's like.

• 37:50David Sims?

  It's sort of happening to him.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Yes, it's sort of happening to him. He sort of doesn't quite get what he's sort of a step behind a little bit all the time. He sort of has, he's not like smoking weed, I don't think throughout the whole movie, but he seems kind of stoned and out of it throughout the movie, basically.

• 38:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:02Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Sims and I are both very big Altman people and he was like a big turnkey.

• 38:06Speaker 05

  Do you like, do you like The Long Goodbye more than The Big Lebowski?

• 38:10David Sims?

  Uh, you probably do.

• 38:12Griffin Newman?

  I probably do.

• 38:13David Sims?

  I've seen The Big Lebowski like a hundred times. That my whole thing with it is it's just sort of one of those, it's very comforting. Beyond that, I put it on last night, I put it on the disc. It's so gorgeous.

• 38:24Griffin Newman?

  It looks so good.

• 38:25David Sims?

  Like, which is true.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  Best looking comedies, yeah.

• 38:27David Sims?

  Right, like true of any Coen movie, obviously their movies always look good.

• 38:30Speaker 05

  Roger Deakins back there.

• 38:32David Sims?

  It's so stunning to look at for, and especially for a comedy. It is so rewarding.

• 38:36Griffin Newman?

  Just did our Drive Away Dolls episode very out of order and watching these two back to back is kind of.

• 38:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, what happened? What'd they do?

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  Enjoy that movie a lot.

• 38:45Speaker 05

  It's a cute movie, but you missed the like lush, like, yeah, I mean.

• 38:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 05

  Do you think that's a choice?

• 38:51Griffin Newman?

  I think so. I think that's always all. We'll get to it in 10 episodes.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, just to preview it.

• 38:57Griffin Newman?

  I break it down.

• 38:58David Sims?

  I think it's a little bit the movie being like, don't take us seriously, like we're having fun, it's silly, but I don't know.

• 39:02Griffin Newman?

  But that is the magic, and people always say this, right, of like, you can't make a comedy look too good or it stops being funny. There's this added that I disagree with.

• 39:10Speaker 05

  I disagree with that.

• 39:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but, and I think a lot of your work has been like a rebuke to that, but there is that sort of narrative sometimes of like, it just needs to be clean, bright, wide.

• 39:19David Sims?

  Light everything as bright as you can so you can see all the jokes.

• 39:22Griffin Newman?

  Fucking talking heads, like cross coverage.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  Something about Mary, like, effect, I would say, is like, and Dumb and Dumber and a lot of those movies are just like, bright, bright, bright, bright, bright, bright, colors clueless. I mean, honestly, and that movie, I'd say, actually did it with like a creative intention in mind.

• 39:41Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  Like, they weren't just like bright, like, there was, I think, a lot of reasoning behind why that was a good choice for that specific movie.

• 39:50Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  But I think as a result, oh yeah, I mean, I remember when we were shooting For Your Virgin, I was just, I remember at one time, like, coming up and giving Judd like notes on how I thought we could make the frame more interesting. And he looked at me like I had lost my fucking mind, like, literally looked at me like I was a crazy person.

• 40:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  He was like, make the frame more interesting. Like, he's like, as long as you can see the boner.

• 40:15Speaker 05

  We're good.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think we're okay. Yeah. And it's funny because when we actually made Superbad.

• 40:25David Sims?

  Superbad has like a grain.

• 40:27Speaker 05

  Well, yes, and it's and it's shot Greg like shot it. You know what I mean? Like, it's not all cross coverage like we he would do in the in the store. There's like, it was very designed. Shots. One shot will take you to this line and then a new shot will pick it up for these lines. Had I remember there was like some very heavy conversations that were had were where Judd and it was just like, why are you not just cross like you? You need to just cross cover this and and Matola was like, no, that's like, not what I'm doing on this movie. Like, I will do it for some scenes. But that's not like what I'm just gonna do. And and blocking is the thing where you feel it the most. Like, it's when the characters don't move. And this movie has a lot of great blocking.

• 41:09Speaker 05

  Like, The Big Lebowski is like an excellently blocked film. And and the characters move in a very elegant way that serves the timing and the comedy and and and and the scenes in like a really dynamic way, which I think is why it's not boring, even though it's like largely people talking in different.

• 41:27David Sims?

  Right. And not I mean. Light on action often. Yes.

• 41:30Griffin Newman?

  So much of it. The self perpetuating problem is you get into these zones where comedies have a lack of blocking because people are so worried about getting the correct amount of coverage.

• 41:40Speaker 05

  Exactly. To edit it.

• 41:41Griffin Newman?

  You don't want the amount of movement and readjustment of positions that will cause more angles versus something like this where you just see that the Coens and the Deacons are like, these three actors are locked in.

• 41:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 41:52Griffin Newman?

  We can get this in a three shot in which they move six times and we only have to punch in for like, two specials.

• 41:57David Sims?

  I'm gonna look at our research now, but like, the the thing I think of most and probably what baffled people initially, right? Like, hey, let's go see the new Fargo guys movie. Why is it about like stone bowlers doing nothing? Like. Those scenes where it's like dude, Donnie and Walter.

• 42:13Griffin Newman?

  And Donnie's right over the.

• 42:14David Sims?

  And Donnie's over the shoulder and he keeps turning around and they are all three having separate monologues essentially at different speeds, interrupting each other at the same time.

• 42:24Griffin Newman?

  Without cuts.

• 42:25David Sims?

  I don't know how you do that and have it make any sense.

• 42:28Griffin Newman?

  But that's the magic trick. That's like watching fucking like Fred Astaire dance with a hat rack.

• 42:33Speaker 05

  When I first moved to LA, my manager had like a library in their office of like scripts, like just hundreds of scripts. And, and I, one of the first things I did was I got the script for The Big Lebowski, because I wanted to see how those scenes were.

• 42:45David Sims?

  Like literally laid out.

• 42:47Speaker 05

  Right laid out. And, and they were, they are written exactly as they are performed in the movie to like the half word.

• 42:57David Sims?

  Right. So they have it, it's not like three columns of dialogue.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  It's like telling you exactly when the interruption comes and when it goes back to the other person. And I remember reading it being like, oh my God, like these guys like, like plotted this out into like a microscopic rhythm.

• 43:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  And, but then I was like, oh, and that's why they could shoot it in a three shot. Cause it's, they're not finding it. And it felt improvisational to me. And I, even on Freaking Geeks was the only thing I was making at that time, but we did a lot of improv and cross coverage and stuff. So that's sort of how I assumed you had to capture that sort of like naturalistic interrupty idea. But then I was like, oh no, these guys just wrote it. They actually, they actually broke it down and, and the actors just did it. And it was, that was very eye opening for me. But I think it's why, yeah, it's why the movie looks, is allowed to look.

• 43:48Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I feel like I will now always envision the straw man exec characters in my mind as the studio characters. But you just imagine people looking at the like, the shooting schedule for this and being like, guys, so your plan is the only way to get this sequence is for the actors to get it perfect.

• 44:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  There's no contingency here. The only way this works is it's, you get a take where everyone nails it.

• 44:14David Sims?

  That's not allowed.

• 44:14Griffin Newman?

  And that's like terrifying to people.

• 44:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, they don't like.

• 44:17Griffin Newman?

  Which is why they're just.

• 44:18Speaker 05

  As somebody who's done that, they don't like, I can tell you, they don't love that.

• 44:21Griffin Newman?

  But it's the stuff that makes Coen Brothers movies feel like, how did this fucking happen?

• 44:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:26Griffin Newman?

  That everything is so perfectly constructed and also feels kind of loose and miraculous.

• 44:30David Sims?

  You want to say something, Benny?

• 44:32Speaker 03

  I think we should get to the research.

• 44:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  But I have a little surprise.

• 44:36David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:36Griffin Newman?

  I noticed you've covered something on a table with a shining blanket.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yes, I brought the accoutrement to make a white Russian.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  We should do it. We have to.

• 44:47Griffin Newman?

  All right. Seth did text me, if there aren't white Russians in the studio, I'm leaving.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  No, I had to do it.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  They better fucking be white Russian.

• 44:54Griffin Newman?

  All right.

• 44:55David Sims?

  Ben was trying to spread, and then I arrived at the studio as he was arriving. And I was like, why do you have a bag of ice?

• 45:00Speaker 03

  I was gonna do a whole thing.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  Some Caucasians. I like how he calls them Caucasians.

• 45:04Griffin Newman?

  I like that, too.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  All right, well, then, four white Russians.

• 45:08Speaker 05

  Please.

• 45:09Griffin Newman?

  Let's do it.

• 45:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 45:13David Sims?

  Yes.

• 45:14Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 45:35David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 45:54Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 46:10David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/ListenToDracula.

• 46:45Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 46:45David Sims?

  Hmm?

• 46:46Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 46:54David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 46:55Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 47:02David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 47:08Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:09David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 47:15Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, "Oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort."

• 47:19David Sims?

  No!

• 47:19Griffin Newman?

  Nope!

• 47:20David Sims?

  They've been awarded Best Hybrid and Best Memory Foam Mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you and the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 48:07Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 48:08David Sims?

  Yes?

• 48:08Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 48:13David Sims?

  Wow! Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 48:18Griffin Newman?

  I love that, it's very convenient.

• 48:19David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 48:27Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 48:35David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers maybe? The sickest luxury items. Cookware, to kicks, toys, to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop. At once. Okay. That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 48:59Griffin Newman?

  From cold favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 49:28David Sims?

  I, as I told Ben, don't think I've had a white Russian since I was like 20 years old.

• 49:32Speaker 05

  I haven't had one since I was at that bowling alley.

• 49:34David Sims?

  Right. They are so disgusting. No offense to the drink I'm possibly about to sip, but uh, I remember once-

• 49:40Griffin Newman?

  Hate milk.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  They taste good.

• 49:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:42Speaker 05

  They're not a good drink to like consume.

• 49:44Griffin Newman?

  Like a lot of like-

• 49:45Speaker 05

  It'll fuck you, your stomach. Well, being 20 and like, cause when you're 20, you're just drinking to get drunk. So you're having like four or five or whatever is you're drinking. And then a white Russian's a disgusting thing to drink.

• 49:55David Sims?

  Such a bad thing to ingest.

• 49:56Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cause it's doing other things to your body at the same time that are not cooperating with the drunkenness.

• 50:01David Sims?

  I was at a bar with a girl in college.

• 50:05Griffin Newman?

  Humble brag.

• 50:06David Sims?

  And she told me like, oh, they do good white Russians here. And then the bartender asked what I wanted. I said like a white Russian. And he was like, get a real drink. And I never ever ordered a white Russian again after that. Nothing I would really want. Well, they're gross.

• 50:20Speaker 05

  They are kind of gross.

• 50:21David Sims?

  Um, so, okay. All right. I am, as Ben does whatever he's doing.

• 50:25Griffin Newman?

  Carry the, you know what he's doing? He's making four white Russians. I watch him carry them in the movie and every time my brain immediately goes to like, God, that glass is so dirty.

• 50:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 50:33Griffin Newman?

  It just looks gross as a drink.

• 50:35David Sims?

  Why do you think he drinks white Russians? Do you think the cones are just like, that's funny? Like that's a funny drink?

• 50:39Speaker 05

  Well, there is. A dude.

• 50:42David Sims?

  Yeah, there is a dude and we'll talk about that. There's kind of two guys, right? But one of them is the main guy and you probably met that guy.

• 50:48Speaker 05

  I have met that guy.

• 50:49David Sims?

  And does he drink White Russians? Like, did they steal it from him?

• 50:52Speaker 05

  My assumption is yes.

• 50:53Griffin Newman?

  So, okay. Our friend Connor Rattler, friend of the podcast, made a great point, talking to him the other day, that it's so funny that Fargo is like the pinnacle of their career up until this point, right? The anointment moment they win the Oscar, it's their biggest crossover hit.

• 51:08Speaker 05

  And it's one of the best movies.

• 51:10David Sims?

  Oh, it's the best. Nothing wrong with it. We love Fargo. I do want to point out, and JJ put this in the research and it is crucial to note, Big Lebowski is a script they'd had for a long time and had been trying to make throughout the early 90s.

• 51:25Griffin Newman?

  It was their pineapple express. We can only get this made once we have it.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  Once we have it.

• 51:29David Sims?

  Yeah. And according to JJ, it might have come first, but Goodman, before Fargo, but Goodman was making Roseanne, Jeff Bridges was making White Squall. Never forget that fucking, he got like 10 buckets of rain dumped on him every week.

• 51:40Griffin Newman?

  The movie that like created QAnon?

• 51:43David Sims?

  Yes.

• 51:43Speaker 05

  Because the storm is coming?

• 51:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Where we go one, one goes all.

• 51:48David Sims?

  All the quotes in White Squall have become QAnon models.

• 51:52Speaker 05

  That is maybe the weirdest part about QAnon.

• 51:55David Sims?

  Everything else.

• 51:56Speaker 05

  I don't say this, but of all the stuff I've heard, it's the only thing that makes least sense.

• 52:01Griffin Newman?

  It's like how Proud Boys is all spun out of a song deleted from Disney's Aladdin.

• 52:05David Sims?

  Yes. Really? Proud of your boy. Yep. There's a song in Disney's Aladdin where Aladdin's mom sings that she's proud of him. They decided to cut it because it's boring.

• 52:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then, and then they grabbed it and said like, Disney cut this because they don't want women saying that men are good.

• 52:20Speaker 05

  Oh, well, that's 30 years ago.

• 52:23David Sims?

  They do.

• 52:24Griffin Newman?

  We need to be proud, boys. We need to create the Aladdin's mom that never existed to make us feel proud. Doesn't that make them a lot dorkier?

• 52:33Speaker 05

  I mean, so, not that they need help.

• 52:35David Sims?

  So, The Coens, it's a personal movie in a way in that, yes, it's based on dudes they know.

• 52:40Griffin Newman?

  Can I just finish the start? The Connor part, it's.

• 52:42David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 52:42Griffin Newman?

  Tied to what you just said. That he was like, I think part of the legitimacy bestowed upon Fargo as these guys have stopped fucking around and made a real movie was the false selling of Fargo as a true story.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true.

• 52:54Griffin Newman?

  Which lent some weight and all the weird koenisms of it. People were like, wow, but they didn't make it up. I guess the story is just really quirky. And that Lebowski, people are like, what the fuck is this? This is bullshit. This came from nothing. And you're like, the movie is based on two real people. So the circumstances aren't real, but the characters are very much riffing on real people.

• 53:13David Sims?

  So there's this guy Peter X. Line, Pete X. Line, who is like one inspiration, who had been like, worked for Michael Douglas and then was a professor at USC. There's this guy Lou Abernathy, but who's sort of like a Walter type, but John Milius is obviously a big inspiration for Walter.

• 53:29Griffin Newman?

  The Zen fascist. Yeah.

• 53:31David Sims?

  Right. And then this guy Jeff Dowd.

• 53:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:34David Sims?

  That's the guy. That's the guy you're talking about, who is sort of like, he calls himself the Pope of dope. And like, he was a member of the Seattle Seven, which like, the dude says he was.

• 53:44Griffin Newman?

  And was he an entertainment lawyer?

• 53:46David Sims?

  Yeah, he's just like, and I just feel.

• 53:48Speaker 05

  Producer, actor.

• 53:49David Sims?

  He produced Fern Gully, among other things.

• 53:52Speaker 05

  There you go.

• 53:52David Sims?

  And like, when you look at him, because he's still around.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  He looks like the dude.

• 53:56David Sims?

  And he kind of feels like the real Kramer from Seinfeld, right? How that guy was kind of like, I'm going to cash in on being Kramer.

• 54:02Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 54:03David Sims?

  Like, he's still just kind of being the dude. And you've met this guy.

• 54:07Speaker 05

  I have met him. And he was annoying.

• 54:11Griffin Newman?

  Cool.

• 54:14David Sims?

  So Peter X. Line, the thing with him is, they were at his house one time. He's some fucking USC professor guy. And he had a really shitty rug in his shitty house that he would not stop saying really tied the room together.

• 54:26Speaker 05

  That's really funny.

• 54:26David Sims?

  So they never forgot that. X. Line, when they ask him about it, talks about this fake Persian rug, where, I mean, he admits like, that it was, it was a conversation piece in his shitty house. And he, X. Line, once told them a story about his Mazda getting stolen. And then when he found it in impound lot, it had like a 14 year old's homework in it.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  Oh, that's really funny.

• 54:46David Sims?

  So they never forgot that either. Like, they have a lot of like, little weird anecdotes from these crusty Hollywood guys.

• 54:53Griffin Newman?

  Feels like, it feels like 20 years of incubation of like, a notebook of things that got stuck in their craw of like, that's funny. And how could we unify all of this?

• 55:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I remember me and Evan hearing that, and that actually being very inspirational when we started writing Pineapple Express, literally. Like, I remember. Us thinking like, oh, you can sort of accumulate a bunch of ideas and create a narrative that allows you to bring them to life.

• 55:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 55:18Speaker 05

  You don't have to like, start with the story. You can start with a bunch of little things and then create a story that sort of architecturally supports these ideas.

• 55:26Griffin Newman?

  And, and like, can you build a character strong enough that can hold all of these separate things that becomes greater than the sum of its parts? Yeah.

• 55:34David Sims?

  X line also was a Vietnam vet. Who could not stop talking about Viet, like would bring it up all the time. And so they did have that in their heads. I think this movie is very wisely set at the, during the Gulf War.

• 55:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's 92?

• 55:47David Sims?

  91 or 92. Because it's like, we won the Gulf War so fast, one, you know, what, we like ripped through Iraq so fast.

• 55:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And when David said one, he gave two thumbs up just for this.

• 55:56David Sims?

  Woo! Uh, and I do think it, it's quietly making Walter matter. That like, America just crushed some fucking war.

• 56:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:04David Sims?

  And he's still this like piece of shit Vietnam vet that, you know, nobody likes.

• 56:08Speaker 05

  No one cares about that.

• 56:09David Sims?

  Right. Obviously John Milius, who, I feel like just sort of the aggro energy, right? The kind of like, the way he looks, the guy, the way you hear about John Milius is just being like eternally ready for war in a weird way.

• 56:23Griffin Newman?

  But he would, he described himself as the Zen fascist.

• 56:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:27Griffin Newman?

  Right. That it was this weird balance of the things.

• 56:30Speaker 05

  I got an Indiana Jones.

• 56:31Griffin Newman?

  Beautiful.

• 56:32Speaker 05

  Okay. And the great circle.

• 56:33Griffin Newman?

  It's the Xbox game. This was a promo item for their IHOP menu. I might know I spent a lot of pancakes to buy that. Uh, yeah, you're, you're originally, okay, let me take my lactaid before this fucking cocktail.

• 56:45David Sims?

  That's vodka and milk.

• 56:47Speaker 05

  Oh, that's like very nostalgic to me.

• 56:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 05

  It brings me back to 1999, to the bowling alley. It's quite good.

• 56:55David Sims?

  It's not, it's not bad.

• 56:56Speaker 05

  You know what?

• 56:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I actually like it.

• 56:59David Sims?

  Uh, so they, and like Milius is kind of, he's a fake vet. He didn't serve in the military, like he, but they, he had all his paraphernalia. So like, he's in their.

• 57:07Griffin Newman?

  This is the other thing with Milius.

• 57:08David Sims?

  They met him when they're making Barton Fink, I think.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  Spielberg had great Milius stories.

• 57:11Griffin Newman?

  Cause he was.

• 57:12Speaker 05

  And he was, he was like, that guy's amazing. Cause he was kind of the old. He was like the old guy. He was like, and he had had success sort of before. When they're all coming up.

• 57:21Griffin Newman?

  But he was the badass of all the movie brats, which is to your point, like this guy wasn't actually a Vietnam vet.

• 57:27Speaker 05

  Right.

• 57:28Griffin Newman?

  And it wasn't that this guy wasn't extreme, but it's like George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Brian De Palma are all like, this guy's unreal, you know? Which is like, it fits into the same character where you're like, he's not actually, Walter isn't actually powerful within his world.

• 57:45Speaker 05

  No, but around these sort of like meek dudes.

• 57:48Griffin Newman?

  Which he's self-selecting. Like, why is he hanging out with Donnie just so he can tell Donnie to shut the fuck up?

• 57:53Speaker 05

  Exactly why.

• 57:54Griffin Newman?

  Right, exactly.

• 57:57David Sims?

  Now Jeff Dowd, the guy you have met who was in the Seattle 70s, he claims he does not drink White Russians.

• 58:03Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 58:04David Sims?

  He says, hey, man, sometimes it's Harvey Wallbanger. Sometimes it's Tequila Sunrises.

• 58:08Speaker 05

  It's always a silly, stupid drink.

• 58:10David Sims?

  That does sound like it's true.

• 58:12Speaker 05

  And like old timey. Old timey Dave drinks, yeah.

• 58:17David Sims?

  Ethan Cohen's take is basically like, the dude is kind of personally more like Jeff Dowd, but like, you know, with these mixed in other anecdotes, but the physicality is kind of that guy. And like, that's maybe the most. But then also you hear that like Bridges contributed a lot of the clothes and like.

• 58:35Speaker 05

  And he's like from, he's like a California guy.

• 58:37David Sims?

  Yeah, like it feels like he's tapping something in himself that he maybe hadn't quite tapped yet.

• 58:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's, it's.

• 58:44David Sims?

  Just like how Drew Grit turned him into like an old cowboy.

• 58:47Speaker 05

  He turned him into that guy. Every movie he makes after Drew Grit, he's like, you know, and like for a while after Big Lebowski, he was the dude. Yes, he was the. And then what he does. I feel like if you see him on the street and you recognize, and if you either say to him, hey, man, I love the Big Lebowski, or hey, man, I love Drew Grit, you'll get a different Jeff Bridges depending on which, which one you say.

• 59:06Griffin Newman?

  Feel like.

• 59:06Speaker 05

  If you say, I love both, he'll give you a really funny.

• 59:11David Sims?

  Have you ever met him?

• 59:13Speaker 05

  I have one, uh, one, uh, maybe one or two times. Um, and yeah, and I ran up to him and I, and I, I went the Lebowski route and I got a very dudeish response. Um, and it was, it was amazing. It was lovely.

• 59:26Griffin Newman?

  It does feel like the dude has either become the closest thing to his like default persona in life as an actor, right? Cause even like the year after this is the contender where he's back in like the most handsome man in the house.

• 59:41David Sims?

  I remember.

• 59:42Speaker 05

  He went to Keel stain for a while.

• 59:43Griffin Newman?

  He was, he went stain.

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Don't forget, he cleaned stain, cleaned the stain. He went back.

• 59:50Griffin Newman?

  No Tide Pen could fight this thing.

• 59:52David Sims?

  It is so funny that Iron Man had to run through him before he deals with Dano.

• 59:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, like a space alien. You take out Jeff Bridges, fuck Jeff Bridges, then a space god. I'm gonna build a slightly bigger suit than you. I like negotiating.

• 1:00:08David Sims?

  Um, obviously, Fred, they're starting writing this script, James M. Cain is their blood simple, like, you know, uh, Miller's Crossing is Dashiell Hammett. This is Raymond Chandler, right? Like they, they're like, it's perfect dressing for this plot.

• 1:00:20Speaker 05

  Have you guys rewatched The Big Sleep recently?

• 1:00:23David Sims?

  Not in the last 10 years. Like I've seen it several times. I never know what's going on at the end, which I know is part of the point.

• 1:00:28Speaker 05

  It is in disguise.

• 1:00:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:00:31Speaker 05

  I watched it for the, actually, I think the first time, like a few years ago. And right. I was, some parts of it I really liked, but I was mostly like, what the fuck is going on? I love Humphrey Bogart. I think Humphrey Bogart is just like maybe the coolest.

• 1:00:43David Sims?

  He's the coolest guy.

• 1:00:44Speaker 05

  Coolest guy ever and like is unbelievably watchable.

• 1:00:47David Sims?

  He's so cool in The Big Sleep.

• 1:00:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:00:49David Sims?

  He's playing a guy who fucks.

• 1:00:51Speaker 05

  Yes. He's so cool in that movie.

• 1:00:53David Sims?

  Like in Casablanca, which these are all movies I love. In Casablanca, he's like, I don't fuck anymore. I just have this bar and I'm sad. In Maltese Falcon, which is my favorite of his movies, he's like, I need to figure out what's going on with all you assholes. Like, but in Big Sleep, he fucks. He want, you know, he's just being a cool motherfucker.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  He's just kind of cool, but it is similar where he seems kind of confused as to what's happening throughout a lot of the movie.

• 1:01:14Griffin Newman?

  Right. The spectrum of those movies, which are all kind of about perfect style, these impossibly cool leads. Eating men.

• 1:01:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Griffin Newman?

  And these undecipherable plots, right?

• 1:01:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  And then Long Goodbye does the, the modernist version of that, which is this is who this guy thinks he is in his mind.

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Griffin Newman?

  We're placing him in a modern context. The world at large is not in sync with him.

• 1:01:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:35Griffin Newman?

  The kind of like stylish, uh, voiceover narration is not just-

• 1:01:40Speaker 05

  Like mumbled to himself like a crazy person.

• 1:01:42Griffin Newman?

  Eating cats, right? And then Big Lebowski adds the additional distance of what if this guy doesn't even know he's in that type of story? And the narrator is someone else who he barely meets at a bar who can't even finish his thought.

• 1:01:55Speaker 05

  He can't even like quite remember, doesn't quite understand what's happening.

• 1:01:57Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:01:58Speaker 05

  That is, I mean, rewatching it, it's funny that it's like some things like that where you're like, oh, this is so much weirder than I remember it being like the, the Sam Elliott narration is much stranger than I remember it.

• 1:02:09David Sims?

  It's strange because-

• 1:02:10Griffin Newman?

  They call him the stranger.

• 1:02:11David Sims?

  It's strange because he's doing a bad job.

• 1:02:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14David Sims?

  Like as a narrator.

• 1:02:15Speaker 05

  And they kind of paint him as like this all knowing guy, but he doesn't know anything.

• 1:02:18David Sims?

  He gets lost in a train of thought.

• 1:02:20Griffin Newman?

  And I'll land the plane.

• 1:02:21David Sims?

  He interrupts the movie to be like, do you have to curse so much?

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23David Sims?

  And Jeffers is like, what? And he's like, don't worry about it. Like it's very funny, but it is.

• 1:02:28Speaker 05

  It's weird.

• 1:02:29Griffin Newman?

  We talk about this kind of like, my favorite kind of Coen dialogue is this like big chunky monologue that is like a freeway that takes off ramps and merges back into the freeway where characters like answer the questions they pose themselves. And that's usually done in such a rat a tat, fast talking way. And you got Sam Elliott, who's going to slow that down to a molasses crawl, but then you're also going to have him not figure out how to get back on the highway. You're like, starting with a broken version of a Coen monologue.

• 1:02:56Speaker 05

  Yeah. And it's like, starts with like narration that doesn't work.

• 1:02:59David Sims?

  So, but nobody in this movie makes sense. So like you've got the dude who moves through every plot line, uh, sort of competent, but like also not paying attention. And then we'll be like saying things he heard in the last, like episode.

• 1:03:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. He repeats a lot of things.

• 1:03:14David Sims?

  Right. He repeats things that don't really, you know? And then you have Walter, who literally makes the wrong decision every single time and like works himself into a frenzy. And then the final wrong decision, I feel like is pulling the big Lebowski out of the wheelchair. I mean, like the funeral is like a coda, but that's sweet. But like him being like, this guy walks. And at this point you're like, I swear to God, he's not going to like, he's not going to do something.

• 1:03:36Griffin Newman?

  You haven't hit one.

• 1:03:37David Sims?

  You know he's gonna.

• 1:03:38Speaker 05

  It's one of the greatest scenes in any.

• 1:03:42David Sims?

  It's just like, there's a classic Coen story in that they like wrote 40 pages and they were like, that's interesting. And they got stuck and they like put it away and then they put it back. To explain the narration, they say he's like an audience substitute and like Chandler stories always have a narrator. So we kind of wanted like, uh, but like, they can't really explain this.

• 1:04:03Griffin Newman?

  Decision to be like, you couldn't have Lebowski narrate this movie.

• 1:04:07David Sims?

  No.

• 1:04:07Griffin Newman?

  That gives him too much of a connection.

• 1:04:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Griffin Newman?

  To the story. He has to be pushing against it. And what the, the big driving force for Lebowski is you said, like, him wanting the rug back.

• 1:04:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:18Griffin Newman?

  Is the active choice he makes that keeps the whole movie going. Right? But that choice is driven by this guy wants to do nothing.

• 1:04:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Griffin Newman?

  The only active thing he does is to try to reset back to the status quo of where he is at the beginning, which is, I'm unemployed. I like everything in my apartment and I have my routines.

• 1:04:35David Sims?

  I have, yeah.

• 1:04:36Griffin Newman?

  You know, I got my Roach clip. I got the White Russians.

• 1:04:39David Sims?

  But the thing that does stress me out is if he just got the 20 grand initially from the, you know, job he fails to do the, you know, it feels like the dude could live on 20 grand for like.

• 1:04:49Griffin Newman?

  Forever.

• 1:04:50David Sims?

  Five to 10.

• 1:04:52David Sims?

  He doesn't seem to pay rent anyway.

• 1:04:55Griffin Newman?

  But I think he like abhors that level of ambition.

• 1:05:00David Sims?

  I know.

• 1:05:00Griffin Newman?

  His pride in being unemployed.

• 1:05:02David Sims?

  Yeah. Anyway, uh, yeah. I mean, they, they said it in like the more marginal LA Venice Beach, the valley Pasadena or whatever. You know, like that's what they're interested in. And then Pete, one of the inspirations is a big softball guy, but they were like, bowling is like, makes more sense. It's aesthetically more pleasant. It's very male, which we think is like, we want these guys to just be sitting around.

• 1:05:23Griffin Newman?

  It's also weirdly rhythmic in a way that feels very Coen-y of just like the kind of repetition of, of the role and the sounds in the wood. And yeah.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  Now, the craziest thing obviously is their first choice was Mel Gibson for the dude.

• 1:05:35Griffin Newman?

  Whoa.

• 1:05:35David Sims?

  Which is so wild.

• 1:05:37Griffin Newman?

  Now, do you know which role Mel Gibson would have played well?

• 1:05:41David Sims?

  He would have killed Walter.

• 1:05:42Griffin Newman?

  No one could be better than Goodman, but he would have done a great Walter.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, he actually would have. He's maybe too scary. Like Walt, there's like an impotence to Walter a little bit.

• 1:05:51David Sims?

  Yeah, he does need to be not actually.

• 1:05:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. If he had played Walter, at the time, people would have said, where did this come from? This is an amazing transformation. And now we would have said, he gave us all the clues.

• 1:06:01Speaker 05

  Exactly. We'd be like, oh. And Mel Gibson has himself.

• 1:06:06David Sims?

  Gibson reads the script is like, this is kind of funny. There's no way I would have, I'm not going to do this. Like, this is like ransom era Gibson or whatever. Jeff Bridges famously is kind of like, especially back then, like a waffler, like he would like flirt with projects and not decide what to do. What he was like, kind of tough to nail down. He was like, should I play like a pothead? He had like teenage daughters and worried he'd set a bad example. I mean, this feels very old fashioned.

• 1:06:31Griffin Newman?

  In like near peak handsomeness era two. He's kind of like a B-list movie star, like a really sturdy studio leading man with a lot of Oscar nominations under his belt. But it felt like he was at a comfortable level of like, you handle mid-budget drama.

• 1:06:47Speaker 05

  Bridges movies around this.

• 1:06:49David Sims?

  It's like, you know, Fearless, which is a great movie is.

• 1:06:51Griffin Newman?

  Morning After.

• 1:06:52Speaker 05

  Peter Weir movie?

• 1:06:54David Sims?

  Peter Weir movie.

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  Strawberries?

• 1:06:56David Sims?

  Yes. Blown Away is 94 with Tommy Lee Jones.

• 1:07:01Speaker 05

  There's two movies called Blown Away, and I always watch ones. One is that one and one I can't remember. Is the one with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman?

• 1:07:08Griffin Newman?

  That sounds right. Let me look this up.

• 1:07:09David Sims?

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 1:07:11Speaker 05

  I like that Tommy Lee Jones.

• 1:07:12David Sims?

  And they're both from around the same time.

• 1:07:13Speaker 05

  Tommy Lee Jones does the worst. Is he supposed to be Irish accent maybe in the history of?

• 1:07:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's Corey Haim and Nicole Egbert.

• 1:07:22Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:07:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24David Sims?

  But the right, the one you're talking about, right?

• 1:07:25Griffin Newman?

  And Corey Feldman, of course.

• 1:07:27David Sims?

  That thing like Blown Away, Patriot Games, Devil's Zone, like when like IRA guys were like a Hollywood.

• 1:07:32Speaker 05

  Cool, right? Yeah, that was a good target. That was a good, easy villain for.

• 1:07:36Griffin Newman?

  Bridges was kind of like. You know, forty million dollar movie that has a great light.

• 1:07:41David Sims?

  I'm gonna give you the rest around.

• 1:07:42Griffin Newman?

  Harrison Ford turns it down. Get Jeff Bridges.

• 1:07:44David Sims?

  Yeah, like, but it's like, obviously, he did The Fisher King in the early nineties. That's a great movie.

• 1:07:48Griffin Newman?

  Closest to this.

• 1:07:49David Sims?

  He did The Vanishing remake, which is like, okay, he did Fearless, Blown Away. He played Wild Bill Hickok in like a biopic. That was a Walter Hill movie.

• 1:07:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00David Sims?

  But wasn't a hit.

• 1:08:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01David Sims?

  White Squall, which he's like good in, but it's again, it's him just like yelling.

• 1:08:04Griffin Newman?

  And was good for the culture.

• 1:08:05Speaker 05

  Good for the culture.

• 1:08:07David Sims?

  And then Mirror Has Two Faces, which we covered on this show.

• 1:08:10Speaker 05

  Barbra Streisand, your former co-star. My former co-star.

• 1:08:13David Sims?

  Fucking. Which that movie is. Have you seen The Mirror Has Two Faces?

• 1:08:19Speaker 05

  Uh, like, uh, like.

• 1:08:20David Sims?

  It's a really weird.

• 1:08:22Speaker 05

  Really, yeah, it's about her. She like changes her face and she has, yeah. I listened to her whole, all fifty hours of her autobiography recently.

• 1:08:31Griffin Newman?

  It is more similar to Big Lebowski than you would imagine and that it just sort of has these weird.

• 1:08:36David Sims?

  The last thing he'd done before The Big Lebowski.

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  Wow, that's.

• 1:08:39David Sims?

  And then right after he does Arlington Road, which feels again, more like another Blown Away.

• 1:08:43Speaker 05

  I like that movie.

• 1:08:44David Sims?

  Movie's fun.

• 1:08:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's fun. But that's, he's like the king of kind of like adult counter programming mid-budget studio fare. While being a very beloved, respected actor.

• 1:08:55David Sims?

  Anyway, his daughters are like, what do you do? Whatever movie you want. And he says he was sort of like, I guess I am kind of like the dude. I do sit around all day smoking weed. Uh, although he says he doesn't, he did not smoke weed while making The Big Lebowski.

• 1:09:09Griffin Newman?

  He's a professional.

• 1:09:09David Sims?

  Right. And he said that like, the script is written exact, like the dialogue is written. Like he said that once in a while I would put in an extra man and it would fuck up the line. Like you could tell like, no, they already, they already balanced every line out.

• 1:09:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, when I did the table read, I, it is weird because like you are, you know, you kind of just do it and like, and it is one of those things where like. It's like, just by reading it, I'd be like, it's happening. Like, like, if you just say every word, it sounds exactly like the dude. It was really remarkable in a lot of ways.

• 1:09:43Griffin Newman?

  Well, you are, you are so good as an actor, a writer and an improviser. And I feel like you have a skill at being able to take material and put it in your own voice in a way that isn't fighting against the movie. But then also, like, the movies we've covered that you have been in, those are things where it's like, you gotta play this part. You gotta fit into this. This isn't you making it.

• 1:10:04Speaker 05

  Not auto-riffing.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  But like, Steve Jobs is something where it's like, you have that monologue. Which I love so much, that is like, seven unbroken minutes. Where I'm sure you cannot move like, a letter.

• 1:10:14Speaker 05

  No, what's weird about Aaron Storkin, though, actually, is he was, if I would go to him, which I did a few times, and was like, this is a little weird coming out of my mouth. He'd be like, I'll rewrite it. Right, okay. He's a Hollywood guy. I was completely, if anything, he would, he would give it back. I'd be like, I think, like, you changed too much of this. Like, I literally thought, like, these few words could be adjusted. And he'd be like, no, I realize that, like, he, I was actually, all I heard was how rigid he was. Tony Kushner, I would say, was more someone who has put like, an insane amount of thought into every word choice.

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  In a way that I had never even considered as a writer, like, what sound, literally, like, what, the consonants, what sounds they make when, and, you know, the, well, when you say "you," it has a certain power, but when you say "you, you guys," it means something totally different. And when you say "I," like, and it was stuff like that, where I was just like, oh, my God. Like, this is a level of like, like, overthinking, perhaps, that, that I don't engage in. But then what was funny is Steven didn't care. And so he would just be like, ah, say it like, like, like, he almost had, that the funniest part of that whole movie to be. And this is like, the perfect example of that conflict in a lot of ways, is like, there's this line, there's a line in the script where Paul Dano,

• 1:11:36Speaker 05

  we're arguing, and then Michelle comes out and starts dancing in front of the fire, and we kind of start watching her. And in the script, as that's happening, Paul, like, quotes, like, a famous, like, James Joyce poem or something like that. And, and. And I would, Steven doesn't rehearse ever. Like, so if you want to rehearse, it's incumbent on you to find time to do it, basically.

• 1:11:58Griffin Newman?

  But basically, he's shooting the first block.

• 1:11:59Speaker 05

  He doesn't want to rehearse. He's like, I don't want to rehearse. And he's like, very, and he's like, I honestly don't want to talk about the acting. Like, he's like, I don't, I don't want to talk about it. He's like, do it. And, and, and I'll tell you if I want something different, basically. And so me and Paul would get together at my house sometimes to rehearse some of like the more dialogue-y scenes. So when we showed up on set, we were like.

• 1:12:22Griffin Newman?

  When you gotta be dropping like science and math.

• 1:12:25Speaker 05

  Exactly. Especially it's all these words. I literally don't know what they mean. And we kept rehearsing it. He kept being like, this one James Joyce line, like I'm, I, it might not be that, but let's pretend it's like, he's just like, this is the line that like, I'm really, like, I'm kind of finding it hard to say, but then I kind of keep rediscovering like what it might be about. And I've been talking to Tony Kushner about it a lot. And there's been an interesting back and forth about, about this line. And he's like, but to me, like, this line is so important and sort of like summarizes the whole thing in a lot of ways that like, I want to just make sure that I do it right. And then we're shooting the scene and we're blocking it. And Steven's like, so we're on you guys. And then you say this, Seth, and then that moment, Michelle comes out and I'm going to pan with her. And she goes over there and starts dancing and I'm filming her dancing. And Paul's like,

• 1:13:08Speaker 05

  well, if you pan away from me when she crosses, like you're that, I say my line after that. So the shot won't get my line. And Steven's like, oh, forget the line.

• 1:13:20Speaker 05

  Yeah. I just, I literally, it's like Paul looks at me and it's like, what? Forget the line. And you could see, and you know, but to Steven's credit, he's also like, it's like, I'll shoot it. Like, don't worry. You know, like, it doesn't matter. Like, if I'm, if I'm directing this properly.

• 1:13:42Griffin Newman?

  I'm in charge here.

• 1:13:43Speaker 05

  It doesn't make a difference also. Like, he's like, trust me, the shots will tell the story properly.

• 1:13:48Griffin Newman?

  It's a thing, especially when we re-watch, like, I don't, I can't think of an example of this in Lebowski. But especially when we re-watch like some of the most totemic quotable repeated movies of all time, where you watch sequences and you're like, they actually aren't covered in the way you remember in your mind's eye, where you don't see that actor's face during the famous line.

• 1:14:08Speaker 05

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:14:08Griffin Newman?

  There's so many examples where it's like an off-camera, over-the-shoulder. And all logic would be like, well, that's the big line. You need to get it in a close-up with them, like, selling it.

• 1:14:20Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm always saying that. I mean, it's like, some of the biggest laughs in our movies are like, off-camera lines. Like, literally, like, you don't care at all, as long as you hear it.

• 1:14:33Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:14:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:14:51David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:14:53Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16-millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:15:15David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like, the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:15:27Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand-new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives, that some historians have called "the best rendering of the footage ever seen."

• 1:15:36David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as, like, grainy.

• 1:15:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:15:39David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:15:46Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, The Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:16:00David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:16:02Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course. Yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:16:05David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:16:20Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:16:37Speaker 06

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Love the crown molding.

• 1:16:45Speaker 06

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet?

• 1:16:52Speaker 06

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you.

• 1:16:59Speaker 06

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 1:17:02Speaker 05

  Get Verizon FiOS because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:17:10David Sims?

  Big Lebowski, just to wrap up the research Walter, written for John Goodman.

• 1:17:15Speaker 05

  Really?

• 1:17:15David Sims?

  No choice other than John Goodman for the Coens. Goodman says it's the best movie he ever made, best thing he ever did.

• 1:17:21Griffin Newman?

  He is unbelievable in this film.

• 1:17:23Speaker 05

  He's unreal. Did he get like, he should have won an Oscar.

• 1:17:26David Sims?

  He should have. There's no awards for this movie. No one gave a shit.

• 1:17:30Speaker 05

  Which is crazy because their previous movie had won a lot of Oscars.

• 1:17:34David Sims?

  You're totally right.

• 1:17:34Speaker 05

  It's really weird. And again, I think it speaks like what I was saying before we started rolling is like, I feel like there has been this like, like people did not like this movie when it came out.

• 1:17:44David Sims?

  Really?

• 1:17:44Speaker 05

  And my memory is it got bad reviews. And I was actually shocked when I went on Rotten Tomatoes and had 80% or something like that. I was like, that is not what this was.

• 1:17:52David Sims?

  You can't trust Rotten Tomatoes for an old movie.

• 1:17:54Griffin Newman?

  Can we sidebar here for a second?

• 1:17:56Speaker 05

  Please.

• 1:17:56Griffin Newman?

  The Cinematrix. I don't know if you play the Volta.

• 1:17:58Speaker 05

  Oh, I do Cinematrix. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:59Griffin Newman?

  Our friend Joe Reed who runs that. Shout out to Joe Reed. We gripe every time there's a Rotten Tomatoes score as a prompt in that.

• 1:18:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, because it's not real.

• 1:18:08Griffin Newman?

  Because Rotten Tomatoes is a living text.

• 1:18:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:18:09Griffin Newman?

  Beyond it being a bad metric, it's a living text where you're like, well, I can start my website tomorrow called like grifflikesmovies.org and be like, Big Lebowski, 100%. And then that will up its tomato score versus what I want is how is it received at the time?

• 1:18:25Speaker 05

  Well, I also think a lot of like, I mean, I could be, I'm, I'm, I'm almost like the Hollywood Reporter, like re- publishes new reviews. So they're not on the wrong side of history. Like no one liked 2001 when it came out and now it has like a hundred percent like they, whatever publications gave it bad reviews. And what's funny is I feel like I said this once on Twitter or something and like, I got like attacked like savage.

• 1:18:48Griffin Newman?

  On Twitter?

• 1:18:50Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:18:50Griffin Newman?

  By the killer tomatoes.

• 1:18:51Speaker 05

  Movie critics who were like, that doesn't happen. They don't do that. And I was like, they do. That happens. Like the general, I'm looking at this general thing over here. Like, people didn't like that movie when it came out. And now you go on, run tomatoes and that's a hundred percent or something. But what it's a real disservice, I think, to people who are interested in movies because you are not getting the actual context of how these movies were received when they came out. And if you gave the general a bad review a hundred years ago, you should shut the fuck up and deal with it and eat it.

• 1:19:20Griffin Newman?

  Also, congrats on being 116 years old.

• 1:19:22Speaker 05

  Exactly. And if you've made it to that age, you should take the ding and fucking accept that you, that you were on the wrong side of the general, just as you were on the wrong side of 2001 and the big Lebowski.

• 1:19:35Griffin Newman?

  Just how the character in the general was on the wrong side of the war.

• 1:19:37Speaker 05

  He was. He was. We should acknowledge.

• 1:19:39Griffin Newman?

  We should acknowledge.

• 1:19:40David Sims?

  When you look at Metacritic, which does a pretty good job trying to find like the um, of the time reviews.

• 1:19:46Griffin Newman?

  And it's also better at not being a consensus, but being a sense of how positive the reviews were, and what percentage.

• 1:19:52David Sims?

  And it has a 71 on Metacritic and even that I imagine is a little inflated by later stuff. But you see like Ken Turan in the LA Times being like, film feels like totally thrown together, haphazard.

• 1:20:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01David Sims?

  And like, I get it.

• 1:20:02Speaker 05

  Which is crazy.

• 1:20:03David Sims?

  It's crazy. I can sort of understand people, critics sitting down in 1998 for this like Fargo follow-up and being like, I don't fucking get it.

• 1:20:11Speaker 05

  It's like so composed and it's so.

• 1:20:14David Sims?

  That's the thing.

• 1:20:15Speaker 05

  Deliberate.

• 1:20:15Griffin Newman?

  Tight and intricate.

• 1:20:16David Sims?

  Were they just spoiled at the time? Like that there were just too many good looking movies? Like, I don't know.

• 1:20:21Speaker 05

  I honestly think maybe like.

• 1:20:23David Sims?

  Like you see like the Associated Press were like, let down. Strange for the sake of being strange, like, just like has nothing to say bad inside.

• 1:20:32Griffin Newman?

  People shit it like it was like epic bacon in the movie. And they were like, it's all just rando shit. I also, a thing I saw a lot of critics at the time repeat is, it basically doesn't have a story. That, just saying like, this movie is just this meandering series of like bullshit with no story. And you're like, if anything, the slam should be the opposite.

• 1:20:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's too much. Well, there's a lot of plot. It is an unconventional script.

• 1:20:55Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 1:20:56Speaker 05

  Like, yeah, like. It but I think almost that's what's oddly magical about it is it sort of forgoes a lot of traditional things but remains incredibly entertaining and watchable I think in like a moment to moment basis and even though you don't quite get what the fuck is happening you really want to know what happens next like and I because it's so funny and like the characters are so interesting but it is I get why it would be challenging to people at the time because it's sort of is from people who you like are used to kind of getting their work I think and then it's also at a time when comedy is like so big you know and not very like conversational like I think that's actually I remember when we

• 1:21:38Speaker 05

  were making Fidel Virgin we were writing super bad like we were so inspired by this movie me and Evan because we were like oh they actually like swear as much as we do when we talk and at the time that was like crazy you couldn't do it in a movie like the like all these movies

• 1:21:56Griffin Newman?

  It was a Scorsese movie where the point is these are the worst people on the planet.

• 1:21:59Speaker 05

  But even Something About Mary they'll show you like a fucking like gaping asshole. Yeah but like they aren't casually profane they're kind of very innocent and and that was always a thing that I like really was kind of a fan of and something that my work would later reflect I'd say in many ways but but that was to me like I think that's why it's aged well is it sort of more reflective of comedies that came out 10 years later.

• 1:22:28Griffin Newman?

  Which is probably the seeping event I mean it is literally like you guys taking stuff from it and then people taking stuff from you guys the movies you made.

• 1:22:35Speaker 05

  Yeah and I was thinking movies in 2006 and 7 and 8 and and us talking about this movie a lot honestly.

• 1:22:41Griffin Newman?

  But you like you think about there were always there would be those stupid repeated stats of like the Guinness Book of World Records for most fucks in a movie and there were always like four movies that people would repeat and it was like Casino Goodfellas nil by mouth held the record for a while.

• 1:22:56David Sims?

  Nil by mouth they only say the word fuck that's the thing it's like right every the only word spoken is fuck.

• 1:23:01Griffin Newman?

  It was movies where it's like about like murders criminals or movies.

• 1:23:10Griffin Newman?

  Movies where that's like the stylistic choice, right?

• 1:23:13Speaker 05

  And Jerry does have the most Jerry's, right?

• 1:23:16Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 1:23:18Speaker 05

  Only second to Tom and Jerry.

• 1:23:21Griffin Newman?

  Well, because that has a lot of Tom.

• 1:23:22Speaker 05

  That more Tom, they bounce it out to you, buddy.

• 1:23:25Griffin Newman?

  But then you, I know you guys talk a lot about like Kevin Smith influencing you in that way. And that's a movie where people talk the way that people talk in his first.

• 1:23:31Speaker 05

  And that's the way he talks, like.

• 1:23:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, certainly the way he talks.

• 1:23:34Speaker 05

  It is.

• 1:23:36Griffin Newman?

  And, and then, right, like you guys kind of like put that on a mainstream scale where there is this shift post like, I think so much about that summer we're knocked up and super bad come out within eight weeks of each other. And it feels like the entire culture shifts.

• 1:23:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Griffin Newman?

  Of just like, all of this is now just understandable by everybody.

• 1:23:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was, uh, but I, I think like, well, even when we were making Forty Year Old Virgin, I was like, they should be swearing casually all the time. And that was like my, my biggest creative contribution to the movie is I was like, we should be smoking weed casually. And swearing all the time. And, and then it's two things that are very much from the Biggles. Cause like Forty Year Old Virgin, that's, that's sort of Steve's movie. It is for sure. And, and he, and, and I was brought on as like. He's just kind of a character he'd done at Second City. Exactly. And I was brought on as like a co-producer to help write the script and, and to rewrite it as, as we were doing it. And that was always my thing is I was like, this is going to be an R rated movie. We should fucking go for it.

• 1:24:38Speaker 05

  Like we should, we should have them. I remember, and, and Correll was very uncomfortable with it.

• 1:24:45Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:24:45Speaker 05

  And, and.

• 1:24:45Griffin Newman?

  And he's the juice of that movie generation.

• 1:24:48Speaker 05

  He didn't want to swear. I remember I had to write a whole script that was like, there was no swearing. Like I had to like redo every scene and I was always coming up with clean versions. That's where that Kelly Clarkson joke came from. Cause I literally was tasked with like, what are not profane things that he could say?

• 1:25:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:25:04Speaker 05

  Like as he's getting waxed. And I even remember like, there's a scene where me and Rod are, are playing video games and we're saying, you know, I know you're gay. And, and we're smoking weed like from a pipe in that scene. And even that was like. Are you sure? They're like, this is crazy. Yeah. Like.

• 1:25:19Griffin Newman?

  It was Dylan going electric.

• 1:25:20Speaker 05

  Yeah. There was, they were never, there was, there were people smoking weed if the joke wasn't that they were smoking weed.

• 1:25:27Griffin Newman?

  Right, that's.

• 1:25:27Speaker 05

  They was, it was always if they were smoking weed, it was the joke. And, and if they, but I was like, people just sit around and smoke weed also. It's not, it's not always the joke. And I remember when we did it in the theater, people like burst into applause, just like becau- at the sight of two guys smoking weed and playing video games. And like swearing. And at the time, that was like somehow revolutionary.

• 1:25:50David Sims?

  The thing about that movie, and I do remember, I mean, like the first time I saw it in a theater and all that, is you're also watching all those characters kind of realize they all like hanging out. Like, like at the start of the movie, they just like work at the TV store and they hate it or, and like you're watching them. They all want to hang out and talk about their dicks.

• 1:26:06Griffin Newman?

  You say forty year old virgins. I mean, the first image that pops into my head is him sitting uncomfortably at the poker table.

• 1:26:12Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 1:26:13Griffin Newman?

  Becomes the boob conversation, but that's.

• 1:26:14Speaker 05

  Bag of sand. That's like the movie that the whole, that's the idea the whole movie is based on. Yeah.

• 1:26:18Griffin Newman?

  But also that is the motor that you just described of this guy doesn't like all this cursing happening around.

• 1:26:24Speaker 05

  It sort of worked for the movie.

• 1:26:25David Sims?

  Yeah, all the friends, you guys all react with like, can we get you laid?

• 1:26:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30David Sims?

  Instead of being like, oh, I don't want to deal with you.

• 1:26:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:33David Sims?

  That's why the movie's fun.

• 1:26:34Speaker 05

  It's sweet.

• 1:26:35David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:26:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:26:36Speaker 03

  It's fun to hit each other with, uh, the fluorescent light bulbs.

• 1:26:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:40Speaker 03

  That was something that me and my friends.

• 1:26:42Speaker 05

  That was Adam McKay's. I remember we did a Taylor read and Adam McKay, that was his strong pitch was.

• 1:26:46David Sims?

  Whose idea was? Uh, David Caruso and Jade.

• 1:26:50Speaker 05

  That was me for sure.

• 1:26:52David Sims?

  That, because I was going to say, that feels, that's the best line.

• 1:26:54Speaker 05

  A hundred percent.

• 1:26:56David Sims?

  Here's that and Correll being like, I know.

• 1:26:58Speaker 05

  Oh, yes, of course.

• 1:27:00Griffin Newman?

  There's another thing, we, we mentioned that a lot on the podcast. My, I often cite as my single favorite line of dialogue, the funniest line of dialogue in any movie. And I need to know if this came from you and Evan or from Hater in Superbad, when you're driving McLovin around and you're doing Star Wars impressions. And then Hater turns back and he goes, you know, uh, Yoda from Attack of the Clones?

• 1:27:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, that was Bill Hader.

• 1:27:24Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:27:25Speaker 05

  That was the funniest joke. That was so stupid.

• 1:27:27David Sims?

  It's so.

• 1:27:28Speaker 05

  Really making ourselves laugh.

• 1:27:30David Sims?

  Yoda from Attack of the.

• 1:27:33Speaker 05

  From Attack of the Clones. It was so stupid. Me and Bill loved fucking with Christmas Ploss, um, who was a child at the time. And I remember.

• 1:27:41David Sims?

  Brand new child.

• 1:27:42Speaker 05

  I remember we were talking about the movie Short Circuit. Like we were, we'd fill all these scenes where he's at the back of the car and Bill would just talk and we were talking about Short Circuit. We're talking about, oh yeah, it's like, just kind of reminiscing. It's like, right. It's like the robot. He gets struck by lightning. That brings him to life. And Chris is like, what do you guys talk about? And we're like, this movie, Short Circuit. And he's like, oh, what is that? And he'd never heard of it. And Bill goes, it's a documentary about a robot that comes to life.

• 1:28:06David Sims?

  And Chris is like, guy hit by lightning.

• 1:28:07Speaker 05

  And like, and, and I feel like this was like, maybe a little before, like, everyone just was Googling everything all the time. And for like several weeks, we convinced Christmas Ploss that Short Circuit was a documentary about, uh, a robot, which made the Fisher Stevens playing an Indian guy even more confusing.

• 1:28:24David Sims?

  This was real?

• 1:28:25Speaker 05

  You're like, that's, that's the real guy, huh?

• 1:28:27Griffin Newman?

  But I, I feel like to your point, right? Like you guys had this sort of like devotion to this idea of why are comedies not reflecting a certain like social reality? Right? And that the, in sort of studio logic, these things need to be justified as that is the entire point of the movie? If you were making a stoner movie, it is Cheech and Chong. Every scene is driven by.

• 1:28:49Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:28:50Griffin Newman?

  These guys overwhelming desire.

• 1:28:51Speaker 05

  They're literally smoking weed in a van made of weed.

• 1:28:56Speaker 05

  An object they turned into a bomb. Yes, yes.

• 1:29:00Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's like, if weed exists in a movie, it is either that or there is a set piece scene in which a character.

• 1:29:06David Sims?

  One scene where someone smokes weed and has the crazy.

• 1:29:09Griffin Newman?

  And then they like fuck a bucket or. Right? And those are like the only two things.

• 1:29:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's like, it's like all about.

• 1:29:15Griffin Newman?

  Similarly, if a character's cursing a lot, it's like, this character is a bad person.

• 1:29:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're like a mafia guy or something.

• 1:29:20Griffin Newman?

  It's one scene of John Polito.

• 1:29:22David Sims?

  I went to college in 2004 and I do think part of the thing with this movie is like, there weren't a lot of good stoner movies.

• 1:29:27Speaker 05

  No, there were almost none.

• 1:29:28David Sims?

  Like there were Cheech and Chong or whatever. That felt very old fashioned.

• 1:29:31Speaker 05

  Which I actually think it's one of the reasons it struck such a big cultural.

• 1:29:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Speaker 05

  Like, I really think that.

• 1:29:37David Sims?

  The culture was swerving that way.

• 1:29:39Speaker 05

  Yeah. And when we made Pineapple Express, we could just see that there was like. So few good things that even like had the care and attention put into them is like any normal thing put that for people who smoke weed or even like mentioning people who smoke weed in a respect like like giving them the respect of actually crafting something that is like worthy of watching and this movie I think was probably like cathartic to a lot of people in a lot of ways because you're like oh like the Coen brothers like some of the best living filmmakers.

• 1:30:06David Sims?

  I mean, and just like. We. And I will stop sucking your dick after this, but just like with super dad, super bad. Like I'm watching that I was, uh, when did that come out? Oh, six or seven.

• 1:30:16Griffin Newman?

  It came out the summer between my high school graduation and going to college, which I was just like, that was like watching the movie in 10DX.

• 1:30:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Griffin Newman?

  It was the most visceral. I watched it five times.

• 1:30:28David Sims?

  I was right out of car. I just graduated, but still right. I felt like, like that was a movie where it's like, they want to fuck, but they're pretty scared of it.

• 1:30:35Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:30:35David Sims?

  And like there weren't like sex comedies were instead about like guys who were like, you know, 28 years old, playing 17 year olds being like, I can't wait to get laid. And super bad is them being like, I'm interested, but I wouldn't know what to do.

• 1:30:48Speaker 05

  It's scary. Yeah.

• 1:30:49David Sims?

  Right. Yeah. And like, I don't think I'd ever seen that in a movie like that way.

• 1:30:53Griffin Newman?

  No, like Michael Cere in bed with Martha McGuys. I was like, this is like the eyeball being cut in Sean's. You're finally tapping into the most like primal terror in my being.

• 1:31:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's like the girl's hornier than you.

• 1:31:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:06Speaker 05

  What do you do?

• 1:31:06Griffin Newman?

  What am I supposed to do here?

• 1:31:08Speaker 05

  Do with that? Uh, yeah, it was, and that's, it's very reflective of our real life experience.

• 1:31:13Griffin Newman?

  But, but like to on ramp back, I mean, all of this is, but all of this is like.

• 1:31:18Speaker 05

  Heavily inspired by.

• 1:31:19David Sims?

  I know. Yeah.

• 1:31:20Speaker 05

  Very directly inspired.

• 1:31:21Griffin Newman?

  I always think about, uh, you and Evan talking about.

• 1:31:24Speaker 05

  And the three, I'd say Evan and Michael and McLeving is inspired by Walt and, uh, and the dude and Donny.

• 1:31:30David Sims?

  That energy like.

• 1:31:33Speaker 05

  That like palpable sort of aggressive argumentative dynamic to us was something.

• 1:31:39Griffin Newman?

  And even the like, shut the fuck up.

• 1:31:40Speaker 05

  Literally, literally.

• 1:31:43Griffin Newman?

  Um, no, I was going to say, I've heard you guys talk about so much how like making movies are it's so difficult and so many things can go wrong and it can be so embarrassing and demoralizing. But it's kind of like, it's not worth doing unless you have an idea that you're willing to die to make.

• 1:32:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Griffin Newman?

  And that you talk about when you were like, started right, super bad in the years of you trying to get it made when you didn't have like the clout in Hollywood. You were like, we would die to get this film made and no one else gets it because it's like a fucking high school sex comedy. But it means this much to us that there's something we have to say. And the dismissal of Big Lebowski at the time is so weird with this attitude of like, are they fucking pranking us? Where you watch this and you do feel like this is a movie they were willing to die.

• 1:32:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. And they're like, we'll, we'll use all the cachet from winning best picture and put it into this like stoner comedy.

• 1:32:33Griffin Newman?

  Weird level of urgency and thought to it of like, we, we have always wanted to make this and this is the only moment where we.

• 1:32:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, where we have the cachet to do.

• 1:32:42David Sims?

  Yeah. The movie costs $15 million and Bridges, apparently when he got like the whatever low ball offered that like they sent him was like, you guys just won an Oscar. You can't pay me more money. And they were like, we want the budget low so they won't fuck with us.

• 1:32:56Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing I think about a lot.

• 1:32:57Speaker 05

  We, we would do the same.

• 1:32:59Griffin Newman?

  About the post Green Hornet thing of like, you guys learned the lesson from this movie got too big, too many people had to weigh in on every decision. And I cite it all the time in this podcast that you guys will pitch films as like, what is the budget number where if it's below this, you don't give us notes?

• 1:33:13Speaker 05

  Literally. Yeah, that's basically it.

• 1:33:16Griffin Newman?

  Where it's such a bargain that if we can get these actors.

• 1:33:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:20Griffin Newman?

  You'll just leave us.

• 1:33:21Speaker 05

  And to us now, it's the number where it's like, what is it? What's the number where there'll always be a bigger problem they have to deal with?

• 1:33:27Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:33:27Speaker 05

  Like what, like as long as there's a more expensive movie going off the rails.

• 1:33:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Speaker 05

  They will, they'll just never get to us. They don't have the infrastructure. They have too many other holes to plug.

• 1:33:39David Sims?

  Just like these guys at this point.

• 1:33:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:33:42Griffin Newman?

  But they've been so smart about it where it's just like their two biggest movies are Hudsucker and True Grit. Hudsucker is their biggest flop. True Grit was their biggest success, but both of those still were like $50 million.

• 1:33:54David Sims?

  Not, not out of control.

• 1:33:55Griffin Newman?

  They've just always kept it at a level where like it allows them the hits and misses to all even out.

• 1:34:01Speaker 05

  It's so smart. Yeah. And they clearly shoot in an efficient way. They clearly plan everything. I mean, I remember even. Yeah, I remember when this, I remember watching this and it was so funny because it was like right when we were making all of our movies. I remember watching like all the behind the scenes features for it and see how they like storyboarded every single shot of the movie. And I'd like never seen, I'd made four movies and never seen one storyboarded in my entire life. It was like, oh, wow, that's like a really different way of making things, but you see a lot of it is so you can be efficient. And so you can shoot the stuff that has like scope in a very quick and cheap way.

• 1:34:35David Sims?

  Right. Um, yeah. So what do you want to say about the big Lebowski?

• 1:34:38Griffin Newman?

  I think we pretty much said it all. Thank you all for that.

• 1:34:40David Sims?

  No, no, no. So, okay.

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  Starts, as we said, with the sort of-

• 1:34:44David Sims?

  Paying for the milk.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  Well, we're, we're pushing-

• 1:34:46David Sims?

  Oh, The Stranger with LA.

• 1:34:48Griffin Newman?

  Right, literal tumbleweeds.

• 1:34:50Speaker 05

  So some sort of CGI looking tumbleweed.

• 1:34:52David Sims?

  Yes. This is an early CGI movie. Like, like them doing the dream sequences and stuff like-

• 1:34:58Griffin Newman?

  The dream sequence weirdly works so well as like a time capsule of screensaver.

• 1:35:03David Sims?

  Yes. It feels-

• 1:35:05Griffin Newman?

  Aesthetics.

• 1:35:06David Sims?

  You know what else is good about it? Jeff Bridges is so locked in and in the fucking-

• 1:35:10Speaker 05

  He's so funny.

• 1:35:10David Sims?

  He's having so much fun.

• 1:35:11Griffin Newman?

  He's incredible in this.

• 1:35:13David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:35:13Griffin Newman?

  It is. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. I think Jeff Bridges gives a good performance in The Big Lebowski.

• 1:35:19David Sims?

  No, he's incredible.

• 1:35:20Griffin Newman?

  And what is striking about watching it now is actually how clearly he speaks.

• 1:35:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:35:25Griffin Newman?

  Because I think the Jeff Bridges thing has gotten so accelerated-

• 1:35:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:35:30Griffin Newman?

  In what we talk about, the fucking like Billy Goat Gruff chewing on a tin can.

• 1:35:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, he's very, and he, and his voice is sort of high is what's interesting. Is it sort of-

• 1:35:39David Sims?

  He's kind of whiny.

• 1:35:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's sort of like a, what do you, it's like a high exasperation, which is-

• 1:35:44Griffin Newman?

  He has such a good take on how to play this guy that is not the obvious way of doing it, which is this guy wants to believe he's not affected by anything. And yet he's very easily annoyed.

• 1:35:53Speaker 05

  And he's very worked up about everything that happens. Yeah.

• 1:35:56David Sims?

  Right. Because the inciting incident is of course, Jacob from Lost and another guy stealing his rug. That guy's always Jacob.

• 1:36:02Griffin Newman?

  Well, they piss on the rug first.

• 1:36:04David Sims?

  They piss on it, uh, and then they take it. Yeah, actually, it's a good point. Why do they piss on it before they steal it?

• 1:36:09Speaker 05

  Do they steal it?

• 1:36:10David Sims?

  No, they steal it later. That's right. Right. They piss on it and they beat it up.

• 1:36:13Speaker 05

  They just piss on it and they think he gets rid of it.

• 1:36:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:15Speaker 05

  Yes. Which they don't show.

• 1:36:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:17David Sims?

  You're right. And, uh, they-

• 1:36:19Speaker 03

  They put his head in the toilet.

• 1:36:20David Sims?

  They put his head in the toilet.

• 1:36:21Speaker 03

  And they really leave him in there for a while. I feel like that's the first time I clocked that.

• 1:36:25Griffin Newman?

  And even still, that's sort of like a shrug and it's not until they get on the rug that he's like, come on, guys.

• 1:36:29Speaker 05

  To me, one of the best details and it's like, uh, it's something- It's like, I remember when we were blocking like the fight scene in Pineapple Express, like showing the, the, the fight choreographer, like, and it always left such an impression on me when the guy's like rushing into the bathroom and his bowling ball hits the door frame and it like shattered, like breaks off a chunk of the door frame. It's just so awkward and weird.

• 1:36:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:51Speaker 05

  And again, like sets a tone for like a world where just like nothing's going right kind of in a weird way. And I remember being like, they clearly did that on purpose.

• 1:37:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:37:00Speaker 05

  But it's such a cool little detail that sort of shows like the sloppiness of all this.

• 1:37:05Griffin Newman?

  The pineapple fight is so good in that same way where you're like, this is given the amount of space and time as if it is like a Jet Li set piece.

• 1:37:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:13Griffin Newman?

  And yet it is all just people who don't know how to fight in a shitty apartment causing collateral damage.

• 1:37:18Speaker 05

  The whole joke was like, like how hard it actually would be to knock someone unconscious.

• 1:37:23Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:37:23Speaker 05

  And so the fight, the fight would just have to keep going.

• 1:37:26Griffin Newman?

  By the way, that's like what the coins said was their main impetus for blood sample is they're like, movies make it seem like it's really easy to kill someone.

• 1:37:34Speaker 05

  Yes, probably are. Yeah.

• 1:37:35Griffin Newman?

  It probably takes hours.

• 1:37:37Speaker 05

  So stressful.

• 1:37:37Griffin Newman?

  And people are just close to death for so long.

• 1:37:40David Sims?

  Um, so his rug is destroyed. He goes to his bowling alley.

• 1:37:45Griffin Newman?

  Clearly are looking for another guy.

• 1:37:46David Sims?

  Looking for the big Lebowski.

• 1:37:47Griffin Newman?

  The big Lebowski.

• 1:37:48David Sims?

  And.

• 1:37:49Speaker 05

  After like an amazingly cinematic opening sequence, which I think is also like what's so interesting.

• 1:37:54Griffin Newman?

  At the bowling alley.

• 1:37:55Speaker 05

  At the bowling alley.

• 1:37:56Griffin Newman?

  Such a good tone setting.

• 1:37:57Speaker 05

  It's so like indulgent in a weird way and but like shamelessly cinematic at the same time, I think. I love the tum tum shot. Yes. The guy.

• 1:38:06Griffin Newman?

  That's so funny.

• 1:38:07Speaker 05

  The guy who does the little like shimmy. Yeah.

• 1:38:09Griffin Newman?

  But there, it's also like why this movie is centered in the world of bowling, right? It's like.

• 1:38:14Speaker 05

  Which is also why like to call this movie like thrown like haphazard is so crazy.

• 1:38:18Griffin Newman?

  It is crazy.

• 1:38:19Speaker 05

  It's so clearly composed.

• 1:38:21David Sims?

  I agree with you. Like they talk about it like, right? Like just some like indie comedy that was.

• 1:38:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. Like you have like bills. Special sets that like capture like that allow the camera to like pass through like the bowling ball machine.

• 1:38:35David Sims?

  Giant like Deakins wide lens shots.

• 1:38:37Griffin Newman?

  But this idea of like the, the like.

• 1:38:40David Sims?

  Obviously like Busby Berkeley musicals with bowling alley dancers.

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  This idea of like the middle aged working man's like weekend sport or.

• 1:38:47David Sims?

  Bowling's so fucking funny.

• 1:38:49Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:38:49David Sims?

  I love bowling. I really love bowling. I did it a ton as a kid because like it was a great thing to do.

• 1:38:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:38:54David Sims?

  You couldn't go to a bar yet.

• 1:38:56Griffin Newman?

  Right. I love going to the arcade and bowling alleys.

• 1:38:58Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:38:59Speaker 05

  Still do.

• 1:38:59David Sims?

  Yeah. I went recently the gutter in the, in Williamsburg. I go there all the time. It's like so shitty. Like half the time they, the pin thing doesn't even work and you have to be like, hey, and they're like, oh, sorry. And like, everyone is unathletic. Everyone looks like a complete dork. Like especially in like the bowling world.

• 1:39:16Griffin Newman?

  Anyone who takes bowling seriously, bowling leagues.

• 1:39:19David Sims?

  It's like, they're all weird, but you kind of love them.

• 1:39:21Griffin Newman?

  Culture is permanently stuck in the 1960s. You're like, this is a late nineties movie where all of the vibes of bowling.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  Like the aesthetic is like.

• 1:39:29Speaker 05

  Bowling Carrie show. Or like 1960s style shirts, literally.

• 1:39:33Griffin Newman?

  Am I wrong? Has anyone updated it since?

• 1:39:35David Sims?

  Well, I haven't checked in.

• 1:39:36Speaker 05

  Are so like just caught in that.

• 1:39:39Griffin Newman?

  Bowling culture is all stuck in like 1968.

• 1:39:42Speaker 05

  Well, no, now there's like pins. Is that what it's called? It's sort of like hip bowling.

• 1:39:46David Sims?

  Influencer bowling?

• 1:39:47Speaker 05

  It's like the top golf of bowling, kind of like.

• 1:39:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I don't know about this.

• 1:39:50Speaker 05

  They have them around LA. There's a few.

• 1:39:52David Sims?

  I'm looking at it.

• 1:39:53Speaker 05

  G I M C.

• 1:39:54David Sims?

  Yep.

• 1:39:54Griffin Newman?

  I feel like there's like, there's like cool singles bowling, but that's different than like people who make their life be built around bowling.

• 1:40:02David Sims?

  I don't want that. Like I want to go to a shitty bowling alley.

• 1:40:05Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:40:06David Sims?

  With stars and neon and yeah.

• 1:40:08Griffin Newman?

  Like two dollar beer.

• 1:40:09David Sims?

  Drink shitty beer and exactly just sit. Cause like so much bowling is sitting.

• 1:40:13Speaker 05

  A lot of it, you're mostly not doing anything.

• 1:40:15David Sims?

  Right. Yeah. And then when you do your turn, you're like, how, right. How much do I like sort of shimmy or show off?

• 1:40:22Speaker 05

  Forty seconds of stuff for every eight minutes of not stuff.

• 1:40:27David Sims?

  So, right, so he's shooting the shit.

• 1:40:28Griffin Newman?

  Part of it is that like when the most exciting thing happens, there's a good chance that no one's

• 1:40:32Speaker 05

  No one's paying attention except you.

• 1:40:35Griffin Newman?

  That there's like two thrilling seconds.

• 1:40:37Speaker 05

  You see what I did?

• 1:40:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm eating mozzarella sticks.

• 1:40:40David Sims?

  And you get to celebrate, which is a really fun part of bowling.

• 1:40:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:40:44David Sims?

  As you come back to your.

• 1:40:46Speaker 05

  There's like a walk. There's a guy, an organic sort of.

• 1:40:50David Sims?

  End zone dance.

• 1:40:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:52David Sims?

  So they go see the big Lebowski. Now, I love that it's David Huddleston, who's just like a character actor guy that's in it. But they wanted like Robert Duvall, who like read the script and was like, what the fuck is that? Like, they went to all these big shots for that.

• 1:41:05Speaker 05

  That's really funny.

• 1:41:06Griffin Newman?

  Probably destabilize it because the whole point is that this guy isn't really important.

• 1:41:10David Sims?

  Like, they asked, like, Anthony Hopkins, they wanted Jack Nicholson, Gene Hackman, like, oh, that makes sense. But like, I feel like it's perfect that he's this kind of, you can immediately understand that he's a loser.

• 1:41:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:41:21David Sims?

  Right? I feel like I've seen the movie so much that of course I'd know he's kind of full of shit. But I feel like you know that right away.

• 1:41:29Speaker 05

  He's not a real. He's strongly strong.

• 1:41:31Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:41:32Speaker 05

  Right. Or imposing.

• 1:41:33Griffin Newman?

  But he's like one of the guys in the boardroom in Hudsucker. You're like, even in a movie that is heightened, this guy is a, an affect of a wealthy, powerful person.

• 1:41:44Speaker 05

  Well, also you meet Brant first, who sucks like a fucking blowhard. Like.

• 1:41:49David Sims?

  He's so funny.

• 1:41:50Griffin Newman?

  Truly be the single greatest split three card in the history of cinema. There is one card that is Philip Seymour Hoffman, flee Leon Russum. The great Leon Russum will play the sheriff at the end, who is my beloved pull the cork man in True Grift.

• 1:42:06David Sims?

  I love that guy.

• 1:42:06Griffin Newman?

  But I'm just like, that, the, the fact that the bench is so deep and this era of American cinema where it felt like there is a clearly identified consensus pool of the 25 greatest character actors alive. And in the second half of the nineties and the early 2000s, the five best directors are all pulling from it.

• 1:42:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, all the time.

• 1:42:29Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, the amount of overlap between like this and Boogie Nights.

• 1:42:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:42:32Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, there's.

• 1:42:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's true.

• 1:42:34Griffin Newman?

  This pool of just like, hey, you. Know what? Any movie that has some combination of

• 1:42:39Speaker 05

  I know this movie's missing from Baker Hall.

• 1:42:41Griffin Newman?

  Philip Seymour Hoffman, Julianne Moore.

• 1:42:44Speaker 05

  You need them all.

• 1:42:45Griffin Newman?

  You're cooking with gas if you get six of these people, even if they're only gonna pop up for 20 lines.

• 1:42:50David Sims?

  They like they auditioned a murderer's row for that role.

• 1:42:53Speaker 05

  I remember.

• 1:42:53David Sims?

  Paul Giamatti.

• 1:42:54Speaker 05

  I remember Paul Rudd auditioned. He told me he auditioned for Brad and he like performed for me what he did. And it was like the weirdest thing in the entire world.

• 1:43:05Griffin Newman?

  Did you see him perform it after having watched Philip Seymour Hoffman?

• 1:43:08Speaker 05

  Yeah. So you're like, here like this. Well, we're making a version. I was talking about how much I like that movie. He's like, I auditioned for Brad and it was humiliating and I made the weirdest choice in the entire.

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  What did he do?

• 1:43:18Speaker 05

  He did. He was like, he did this like weird like hello like and he like, I just remember he had this like weird.

• 1:43:24Griffin Newman?

  Like a cartoon butler.

• 1:43:25Speaker 05

  Like a cartoon butler, like that guy from the cartoons who was like, yeah.

• 1:43:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:43:32Speaker 05

  Why? Yeah.

• 1:43:34Griffin Newman?

  It is the magic of Philip Seymour Hoffman and our friend James Urbaniac has talked about this, but that he auditioned for an off Broadway play in the 90s and was just like, got the audition was like, this is my role. This is a James Urbaniac role. Post Henry Fool, who else is gonna get this part? And he doesn't get it and he's furious and he goes to see it opening night. And he comes out and immediately from the first second on stage, he's just like, this is the only guy who could have played it. He is making a choice I never would have considered. And, and it feels so bizarre and out of left field and yet it is in retrospect, the only right choice. And like he's taking big swings with this part. It's not like he's not doing weird shit.

• 1:44:16Speaker 05

  Oh, he's doing such weird.

• 1:44:17Griffin Newman?

  His reaction.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  The weirdest part is when he repeats the line.

• 1:44:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:44:20Speaker 05

  And I could never.

• 1:44:21Griffin Newman?

  He resets?

• 1:44:22Speaker 05

  That I genuinely don't know if it was supposed to be in the script or if he just.

• 1:44:25Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 1:44:26Speaker 05

  But it is like so weird and seamless.

• 1:44:28Griffin Newman?

  Robotic.

• 1:44:29Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:44:29Griffin Newman?

  Cause he doesn't even reset to the beginning of the line where it could be an edit point. He goes back four words.

• 1:44:35Speaker 05

  It's so weird.

• 1:44:36Griffin Newman?

  It wouldn't even help.

• 1:44:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:44:38Griffin Newman?

  To have this.

• 1:44:39Speaker 05

  There was a movie I was gonna be in and then I didn't do it and then he did it. And I remember, and I've talked to the director.

• 1:44:45David Sims?

  Capote?

• 1:44:45Speaker 05

  Uh, no, it was that. He was that. It was called, uh, The Boat That Rocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Richard Curtis. Yeah, and I, and he wanted me to do it and I couldn't do it. And then he got Philip Seymour Hoffman and then I saw him after that. And I was like, you really lucked out. And he's like, honestly, I did. He's like, he's like, I feel no remorse to tell you. He did a much better job than you would have done. He's a much better actor than you are. The movie turned out much better as a result of him having done that role.

• 1:45:15Griffin Newman?

  I do just kind of think he's the best to ever do it. He's like the best screen actor of all time. And I think the argument for that is every single performance.

• 1:45:25Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. He wanted me to be in the movie he direct.

• 1:45:28Griffin Newman?

  The Jack.

• 1:45:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I met with him and he wanted me to be the star of it, which was.

• 1:45:33Griffin Newman?

  To play the part he ended up playing?

• 1:45:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it was one of the most flattering moments of my life. Cause it's like, yeah, I can see how. But I remember saying in the meeting to him, like, A, I don't, I would be honestly too scared to act for you every day. Right. And B, like, you should do it. You are a better actor than I am. Do you know you have access to you?

• 1:45:54Speaker 05

  Are you aware that you? No one giving you your headshots. You, have you been told you're technically unavailable for this? Because I don't think you are. You should do this. You're the best actor. There's no better actor. And then, and then he did it. Yeah, and was good. You're right, I have a better actor than you.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  Great advice.

• 1:46:15Speaker 05

  All your stories end up with someone being like, by the way, I fucking crushed it. You were right.

• 1:46:21Griffin Newman?

  Another thing in Blank Check lore I need to invoke.

• 1:46:23Speaker 05

  Oh, what's that?

• 1:46:24Griffin Newman?

  You auditioning for, uh, James L. Brooks for How Do You Know?

• 1:46:27Speaker 05

  Mm hmm. Was that for the Rudd role? Yes, I auditioned for the Rudd role. Wait, what is the, I don't know what this is. It's a crazy story.

• 1:46:35Griffin Newman?

  Tell the story, but it's the greatest audition response I've ever.

• 1:46:38Speaker 05

  It's pretty funny where I, I, I've known Jim, Jim as they call him, James L. Brooks. I've known him for a while and it's like one of the great gifts of my life that I know James L. Brooks. Like it's incredible. I wrote a Simpsons episode in once and he, you know, he was very helpful and he was amazing. And he's come to our table reads and he's just, Judd got his start on The Critic, which was a James L. Brooks show. So he was sort of like in our orbit always. And so. He called me when Superbad came out. He's like a huge fan. Like, so, so, so he's making, how do you know? And he, he calls me into audition and his audition process is like crazy, you know? And I go in and Reese Witherspoon is like there, like, she's already cast in the movie. And for the audition, we're like in his office, which is at Sony, I think at

• 1:47:19Speaker 05

  the time. And, and he basically shoots the scene. And it's like a five hour audition. We're like, we do a master, calls me out of the room and gives me direction. We do another take.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  Are you just in an office?

• 1:47:33Speaker 05

  We're just in his office.

• 1:47:33Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:47:34Speaker 05

  Sitting on a couch. We do another take, calls me outside, gives me more direction. He starts giving Reese direction. I'm like, she's cast in a movie. Like, what are you doing?

• 1:47:43Griffin Newman?

  But he needs like full simulation of what the day would be.

• 1:47:46Speaker 05

  Full simulation. And so, we spend, I'm not joking, five hours shooting this scene. And then, I don't hear anything. Weeks, a couple of weeks go by. And I'm like, maybe I'm gonna do this movie. People are asking me what I'm gonna do. I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe you got this part in the Jim Brooks movie, which is exciting. Then I remember, I like remember it so, I remember like where I wa- I was like walking across the Sony lot where he also was. It's where our offices were at. I got a phone call. And they were like, Jim Brooks calling for you? And I was like, oh, cool. And then, like, a minute, a second goes by, and like, the first words out of his mouth are, he goes, not even close, pal.

• 1:48:25Griffin Newman?

  Not even close, pal is the greatest line.

• 1:48:30David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:48:31Speaker 05

  I was like, and I had that, I was like, what? What are you fucking talking about? I was like, it's been two weeks. It took you two weeks to get to not even close?

• 1:48:40Griffin Newman?

  But also, like, Sam is a good writer. That's the right line. That's the best line someone could say in a James Brooks movie.

• 1:48:47Speaker 05

  So funny.

• 1:48:48Griffin Newman?

  He's not even close, pal.

• 1:48:49Speaker 05

  It made me laugh so hard.

• 1:48:51David Sims?

  Did he then couch it all, then go like, but I love you. You're so funny.

• 1:48:55Speaker 05

  He was like, honestly, watching it, I realized you're just too young. Like, he was like that. He's like, and that's what I've been wrestling with for the last few weeks is, he's like, I liked what you did, but I keep just thinking, maybe you're too young. And he cast Paul Rudd, who is, you know, ten years old or something like that.

• 1:49:09Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, Seth, I have Jim Brooks for your online too. Not even close.

• 1:49:12Speaker 05

  Not even close, pal. Literally, that was how it sounded. I have Jim Brooks for you. Cool. Not even close, pal. I like, it was legitimately hilarious.

• 1:49:27Speaker 06

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  Love the crown molding.

• 1:49:34Speaker 06

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet.

• 1:49:42Speaker 06

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 1:49:45Speaker 02

  No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you.

• 1:49:49Speaker 06

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  Dip Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:49:59David Sims?

  Wait, how did we get to that?

• 1:50:01Griffin Newman?

  Uh...

• 1:50:01David Sims?

  It doesn't matter.

• 1:50:02Griffin Newman?

  We're talking about brands. The only thing I want to call out is coming...

• 1:50:05David Sims?

  When she says, "I'll give you a blowjob from your face," it's the most painful...

• 1:50:08Speaker 05

  Truly amazing.

• 1:50:09David Sims?

  I wish I could laugh like that. Like, I could do that kind of, like, I-want-to-kill-myself laugh on command.

• 1:50:14Speaker 05

  That's one of those lines I've always... I think there's almost like a Tourette's Syndrome that kicks in, like, when you realize you can quote the Big Lebowski. If you're a fan, you have to. Like, when someone... And I'm not proud of it, but it is something I find myself doing. And whenever someone says that someone's a nihilist, I say, "Oh, that must be exhausting." And people look at me like I make no fucking sense in any way, shape, or form.

• 1:50:36David Sims?

  You're trying to speak the language.

• 1:50:37Speaker 05

  Yes, I'm trying to speak the language.

• 1:50:39Griffin Newman?

  It's like what Monty Python and the Holy Grail was. Like, this limited canon of movies where you're like, "It truly has 1,000 lines" that you can repurpose into any conversation.

• 1:50:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:50:50Griffin Newman?

  The only thing I want to call out is, in the meticulous, sort of, table mood setting of The Bowling, you do get the introduction of the Jesus.

• 1:50:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:50:57Griffin Newman?

  Who is given the pomp and circumstances if he is the Darth Vader of the movie.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  I mean, the... Right, the fact that this movie is like, let's pause for a minute and do...

• 1:51:06Speaker 05

  Introduce this guy.

• 1:51:07Griffin Newman?

  Pause for a minute, six minutes in.

• 1:51:09David Sims?

  Right, and do, right, a whole Eagles, like, underscore, you know, like, do the whole thing for the Jesus.

• 1:51:15Speaker 05

  My favorite shot in the whole movie is the shot of John Turturro having to knock on the door of the guy to explain he's a pedophile. And like, it is truly...

• 1:51:24David Sims?

  And honestly, it is beautiful visual storytelling.

• 1:51:26Speaker 05

  Like, in Superbad, we directly reference it when there's a scene where McLovin's, like, explaining how he saw a girl in a thong in the hallway.

• 1:51:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 1:51:35Speaker 05

  Like, like, that is a direct, a direct ripoff of that moment.

• 1:51:40Griffin Newman?

  The cutaway to something you could already imagine.

• 1:51:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, and that's very mundane, basically, benign, kind of.

• 1:51:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:48Speaker 05

  That's already being very specifically explained in the first place.

• 1:51:50Griffin Newman?

  It's so funny, and him just being a little dressed down that he knows he can't.

• 1:51:54Speaker 05

  You see, like, in the bowling alley, he's a different guy, kind of, like, he's sort of like a cool cock of the walk in the bowling alley, but in real life, he's a pedophile.

• 1:52:03Griffin Newman?

  He is a.

• 1:52:04Speaker 05

  Eight-year-old suit.

• 1:52:05David Sims?

  Eight-year-old suit. But, right, like, it's like, all these men who are losers, God bless them, like, this is, right, this is where they're happy.

• 1:52:13Griffin Newman?

  But also.

• 1:52:13David Sims?

  And, like, this is where they themselves.

• 1:52:15Griffin Newman?

  It's a movie of self-styled, like, mythology, right? Yeah. Everyone is like, here's who I am, you know my thing, here's my reputation, they are people, they are like sketch comedy characters in a real world.

• 1:52:25Speaker 05

  Smokey's a pacifist.

• 1:52:26Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:52:27David Sims?

  Smokey's a pacifist.

• 1:52:27Griffin Newman?

  Everyone has their, like, emotional problems. Their bits and their look, and they're just like, how dare you don't know my game.

• 1:52:34Speaker 05

  Right, what my thing is.

• 1:52:35David Sims?

  And then, like, Donnie is this kind of blessed, he's like the fucking pinball wizard from, you know, Tommy or whatever, where you're just like.

• 1:52:42Speaker 05

  He only throws strikes.

• 1:52:43David Sims?

  All he does is throw strikes.

• 1:52:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:52:45David Sims?

  Right, but also, it's like.

• 1:52:47Griffin Newman?

  Bowling savant.

• 1:52:47David Sims?

  You'd, feels like you couldn't have a conversation with him, like, about anything, right?

• 1:52:51Griffin Newman?

  There's the read that he does not exist.

• 1:52:54Speaker 05

  Yes, really?

• 1:52:55Griffin Newman?

  Because no other character in the movie addresses him. We have, we have this porch replica in our office, right? There's a replica of Ben's childhood porch that he used to watch movies on.

• 1:53:04Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:04Griffin Newman?

  We did an art show earlier this year, we built it as part of the installation, very cool that you know what porch movies are.

• 1:53:10Speaker 05

  I know what some porch movies are.

• 1:53:11Griffin Newman?

  And then had it moved here to the office. The guys who came and installed it in the office, I came in when they were finishing up, and they went, hey, what do you think about that theory that in Big Lebowski, Donnie isn't real? And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, you know, you could go down this rabbit hole, there's this whole theory because only the dude and Walter ever reply to him, that no one else ever acknowledges him.

• 1:53:32Speaker 05

  It'd be a weird shared hallucination.

• 1:53:34Griffin Newman?

  In which he exists, right?

• 1:53:35Speaker 05

  When he dies, this funeral director gives them someone's ashes, unless that guy's in on.

• 1:53:40David Sims?

  It's why it doesn't make.

• 1:53:41Speaker 05

  It's not a good theory.

• 1:53:43Griffin Newman?

  But I said to them like, oh, interesting. Yeah, we'll talk about that. I guess when we do our Big Lebowski episode and they went, oh, you're doing a Big Lebowski episode? And I went, why did you bring this up to me? And they were like, I don't know. We heard you like.

• 1:53:55Speaker 05

  We heard you guys were in a movie.

• 1:53:57Griffin Newman?

  The proliferation of this film.

• 1:54:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:00Griffin Newman?

  Right. That like two carpenters were just like, hey, you're a movie guy. Can I talk about Big Lebowski with you? That's the number one movie I want to talk about.

• 1:54:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:08David Sims?

  Well, because it is this movie that has like.

• 1:54:10Speaker 05

  Kind of an art movie also.

• 1:54:11David Sims?

  It has a mystical sense to it that you are like, what is it about?

• 1:54:16Griffin Newman?

  Is there something to solve here?

• 1:54:17David Sims?

  Watch it a hundred times.

• 1:54:18Speaker 05

  It is like the weirdest cross section between like an art film and like of incredibly mainstream, like comedy.

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  Silly comedy. Yeah. Because like, if I describe the plot of the Big Lebowski, or attempt to, it's like,

• 1:54:31David Sims?

  the rug gets stolen. He, he bugs the Big Lebowski about it. And then because that connection is made, the Big Lebowski tries to use him to recover.

• 1:54:39Griffin Newman?

  One that those guys stole the rug because they thought he was the Big Lebowski.

• 1:54:44Speaker 05

  He realizes he can use this idiot to embezzle money to himself.

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  The Big Lebowski, right. Stealing a million dollars from his own fund.

• 1:54:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:54:53David Sims?

  And he's gonna use.

• 1:54:54Speaker 05

  And he knows his daughter keeps track of the money. So he had to concoct a plot in order to account for a million dollars that he's trying to.

• 1:55:01Griffin Newman?

  His miss, his young wife has gone missing on vacation, but her nihilist friends have seized it as an opportunity to pretend that they're holding her ransom, which he sees as an opportunity to launder his own money.

• 1:55:13Speaker 05

  Exactly. Yes.

• 1:55:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes. To give it back to himself away from the fund that his.

• 1:55:17David Sims?

  The movie.

• 1:55:18Speaker 05

  It's a weird plot.

• 1:55:19David Sims?

  Right. The movie.

• 1:55:20Griffin Newman?

  Biological daughter?

• 1:55:22Speaker 05

  It is a biological.

• 1:55:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What is it biological?

• 1:55:24David Sims?

  But the, the dude is progressing through things one step at a time. So he's always like concerned about whatever. Like we lost the bag. We need the briefcase. But, but obviously at no point does money change hands. At no point is there money for him to have.

• 1:55:36Griffin Newman?

  It's a briefcase full of phone books.

• 1:55:38David Sims?

  At no point is Tara Reid in, in trouble.

• 1:55:40Speaker 05

  Nope.

• 1:55:40David Sims?

  The only person who loses a toe is a nihilist and she doesn't care about anything.

• 1:55:44Griffin Newman?

  She sacrifices it.

• 1:55:45Speaker 05

  She sacrificed it, but she's mad about it.

• 1:55:47Griffin Newman?

  The great Amy Mann.

• 1:55:47David Sims?

  Off about it. Yes. Uh, iconic no dialogue or she says pancakes or something.

• 1:55:53Griffin Newman?

  Pancakes.

• 1:55:53Speaker 05

  Pancakes. And Walter says, I thought you guys were nihilists.

• 1:55:56David Sims?

  One of my. One of my favorite things is, of course, that John Polito is watching all of this happen in another movie, essentially.

• 1:56:05Speaker 05

  It's a pretty good movie over here.

• 1:56:07David Sims?

  And he seems to be from like the 50s, the, one of the best gags of The Big Lebowski is the picture of the farm where he's like, we think it'll make our homesick and it looks like some fucking Dust Bowl picture.

• 1:56:18Speaker 05

  Shitty industrial, yeah, right.

• 1:56:20Griffin Newman?

  But also his Pinto, it's like the spectrum of like.

• 1:56:23David Sims?

  He's driven from another time.

• 1:56:25Griffin Newman?

  Bogart is who everyone at the center of a story like this wants to think they are, right? Polito is who they actually are. And Lebowski is the guy who doesn't even want to be in it.

• 1:56:34Speaker 05

  Polito's so funny.

• 1:56:35David Sims?

  He's so fucking funny and God bless him.

• 1:56:38Speaker 05

  The way his like whole like stance he's in when he thinks he maybe has to fight the dude really made me.

• 1:56:44David Sims?

  I mean, one of the funniest things about Polito in this movie, right, is also him just being like, are you a genius? Right. The dude and the dude's kind of like, yeah, maybe.

• 1:56:50Griffin Newman?

  In the Miller's Crossing episode, I was talking about how he, they didn't want to audition him for Miller's Crossing.

• 1:56:56Speaker 05

  Well, have you met?

• 1:56:57Griffin Newman?

  They knew him as a pretty boy actor.

• 1:56:58Speaker 05

  Well, I was gonna say, I also like, I've met John Polito.

• 1:57:02David Sims?

  God bless his.

• 1:57:03Speaker 05

  Few people are more different from how they are in real life.

• 1:57:06Griffin Newman?

  Was very even keeled.

• 1:57:08Speaker 05

  No, he was like extremely flamboyant. Huh?

• 1:57:14Griffin Newman?

  He was married.

• 1:57:16Speaker 05

  But like an incredibly like flamboyant game.

• 1:57:20David Sims?

  Right. It's like old, old fashioned.

• 1:57:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, and not like a tough Italian.

• 1:57:24Griffin Newman?

  He was like John Waters.

• 1:57:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, like, he was like Harvey Firestein, like, literally, like, uh, like, in such a lovely, disarming way. I think he auditioned for something we were doing and like, I just remember him like, sort of like perching himself, literally, like on the edge of the thing being like, what's the direct, like, like, it was, it was adorable. Like, there's no better word for it. He was absolutely adorable and I'd only known him from these movies.

• 1:57:50David Sims?

  Only makes me love him more, right? You expect this guy to walk in.

• 1:57:52Speaker 05

  Hey, how you doing? What are you doing? He was like, hello?

• 1:57:56Griffin Newman?

  Bursting blood vessels.

• 1:57:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. What's your correction about John Polito?

• 1:57:59Griffin Newman?

  No, I said that he, he had been a pretty boy actor and they didn't want to audition him. They wanted him to audition for The Dane because when they had last seen him, he was very skinny and had a lot of hair. Hair and many people on the Reddit got upset.

• 1:58:10David Sims?

  Cause he never had hair.

• 1:58:11Griffin Newman?

  He never had.

• 1:58:12David Sims?

  He was, he was skinnier and a little like more.

• 1:58:14Griffin Newman?

  There is pretty boy, Polito, you can find in earlier crime movies. There's, there's a tube he wears in like two or three, but it's even a receding tube in his early twenties. But then he just, yeah, it's like one day he suddenly had this look and he was the perfect guy to play these characters that were so different than who he was.

• 1:58:31David Sims?

  My big take on sort of the dude and Walter, right? Who are like, cause like you watch the movie enough, you kind of start to be like, why are they friends? And then you watch it more and you're like, they have to be friends. Like they're essential to each other's like continued happiness, right?

• 1:58:44Griffin Newman?

  Like it's a yin yang thing. They can't exist without each other.

• 1:58:46David Sims?

  Walter hates like, like what's happened to him, right? He hates that the country isn't whatever he wants it to be, right? Like Walter, it's just like grievances everywhere.

• 1:58:57Griffin Newman?

  But he basically lost his mind in service of a war that didn't.

• 1:59:00David Sims?

  And he lost his wife. Became Jewish.

• 1:59:04Speaker 05

  Jewish.

• 1:59:04David Sims?

  Right. And he stayed Jewish.

• 1:59:05Speaker 05

  If you will, it is no dream.

• 1:59:09Griffin Newman?

  And he has the QAnon energy of like, how, how are you guys not angry about this? Like everyone should be screaming at all.

• 1:59:15David Sims?

  Also the energy of like, he hears one thing and he's like, it must be true. Right. You know, like where it's like he, she kidnapped herself is something the dude just idly thinks.

• 1:59:22Griffin Newman?

  I can make the connections.

• 1:59:24David Sims?

  The dude, like we all say, is actually kind of like, does get kind of grouchy and does get, but he does have this vibe of like, he stopped caring about changing the world 20 years ago. Like he was once, you know, a radical in the true sense.

• 1:59:37Speaker 05

  He's given up it seems.

• 1:59:38David Sims?

  And now he's like, can I just fucking chill out?

• 1:59:40Griffin Newman?

  But he's neurotic about his principle of trying to do as little as possible.

• 1:59:44David Sims?

  I know so many people like that, especially when I was younger, who were so aggro about how they had to chill out all the time. Were you like, can you relax? I'm like, I need to chill out. You're messing with that. Like they would just always seem to be searching for some like sublime chill zone that they could not reach.

• 2:00:02Griffin Newman?

  Which takes so much effort, right? It's part of his branding of the thing. It's like, why does he drink white Russians? It's because he needs to have a thing.

• 2:00:09Speaker 05

  Yes, he has a thing.

• 2:00:09Griffin Newman?

  He needs everyone to call him the dude, except the way he dresses, what he drinks, how much he doesn't want to deal with this bullshit. It's like this very purposeful. Like I knew a guy in high school who was bathrobe man. And it had that energy of he just wants to show up and be like, oh, this? I didn't even think about it.

• 2:00:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:26Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, there is so much.

• 2:00:27Speaker 05

  You put a lot into this.

• 2:00:28Griffin Newman?

  And I'm sure it was, by the way, directly influenced by.

• 2:00:31Speaker 05

  It must have been, yeah.

• 2:00:33Griffin Newman?

  But he was just the guy who showed up to the parties with the bathrobe and yet every night he would be making out with someone incredibly hot.

• 2:00:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:39Griffin Newman?

  And I'd just be like, how does fucking bathrobe man do it? And he just sold the narrative of what he represented. Strong enough in a way that when you're 15 people buy. And the like, the dude exists in a universe where people can see through it enough because he's at an age where it's no longer cute.

• 2:00:57David Sims?

  So I can't do the go through the plot scene by saying, cause we'd lose our minds, but like the threads are like Julianne Moore as this kind of.

• 2:01:06Griffin Newman?

  Performance art, but also visual art, kind of a Frasier Crane, mid Atlantic accent.

• 2:01:13Speaker 05

  Did you?

• 2:01:13David Sims?

  What were you gonna say?

• 2:01:14Speaker 05

  I was just saying like, for whatever reason, one of the most like, one of the lines that always stuck in my head and was always so funny to me. And again, it's something I think as we were writing was very inspirational is when David Thewlis is there. That's who I was gonna bring up.

• 2:01:29David Sims?

  And he just keeps laughing.

• 2:01:31Speaker 05

  And it's a line that has its own dedicated shot.

• 2:01:34Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:01:34Speaker 05

  As well, which is just when he's standing next to David Thewlis, who's in the chair and he goes, who the fuck is this guy?

• 2:01:43Speaker 05

  It's the only, it's the only shot. There's, there's one shot for that line. It never goes back to that shot. It's just a weird wide shot where you see the dude like head to toe standing next to the guy.

• 2:01:56Griffin Newman?

  Meta joke of him saying like, do I need to learn another character this late in the story?

• 2:02:01David Sims?

  Let me now tell you the thing I was gonna say, which is they wrote that whole scene without that character and they were like, this is kind of a lot of exposition. It's boring. What if a funny guy was sitting in the chair too? And what if we got like. Add a weird British, you know, guy.

• 2:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Actor, like the most.

• 2:02:18Speaker 05

  Greatest actors.

• 2:02:19David Sims?

  Coming off of fucking Mike Lee's naked. This is like, can you sit in the chair and be, you know.

• 2:02:23Speaker 05

  Giggles like a fucking weirdo.

• 2:02:26Griffin Newman?

  Did you see Seth? Did you see the reveal? And this goes to Ben as well. David Thewlis is in Avatar 3.

• 2:02:33David Sims?

  He is.

• 2:02:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:34Griffin Newman?

  He is a character that James Cameron has promised has a small part in 3, but he's it's the long play and he's really gonna pay off in 4 and 5.

• 2:02:41Speaker 05

  Great.

• 2:02:42Griffin Newman?

  And they posted a photo of David Thewlis, Navee, and I just sent it back to Sims, cropped, close up on the lips, and I went, they got the Thewlis mouth right.

• 2:02:51Speaker 05

  They got it.

• 2:02:52Griffin Newman?

  The Navee has those Thewlis.

• 2:02:54David Sims?

  He'll like span him around in a gyrus.

• 2:02:56Griffin Newman?

  It cost $200 million. Weta didn't sleep for months, but they cracked the Thewlis mouth.

• 2:03:02Speaker 05

  Weird, first lips.

• 2:03:05David Sims?

  Maude, apart from like knowing her dad is full of shit, knowing her like stepmother is full of shit, like she also wants to get Jeff, the big, the dude's sperm.

• 2:03:14Griffin Newman?

  She wants a child, but she wants a child that she has no relationship to the body father of.

• 2:03:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:19Griffin Newman?

  To put it in.

• 2:03:20David Sims?

  So is it just that like Jeff Bridges walks into rooms and people are like, you are Jeff Bridges?

• 2:03:24Griffin Newman?

  It is. This is the thing. I like that this movie acknowledges that even though Jeff Bridges in 1998 is clearly putting work into trying to look worse.

• 2:03:34Speaker 05

  Trying to.

• 2:03:34Griffin Newman?

  He still is Jeff Bridges.

• 2:03:36Speaker 05

  He still looks great.

• 2:03:36Griffin Newman?

  He's got the greatest eyes in the world.

• 2:03:38Speaker 05

  His hair's great.

• 2:03:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:39Speaker 05

  Fucking cool looking.

• 2:03:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:40Speaker 05

  He just looks cool. Yeah.

• 2:03:42Griffin Newman?

  And she's just like, why not? This guy will never show up and that's what I'm looking for.

• 2:03:46David Sims?

  Right. It's like he's the perfect mix of like, good looking, tall, but also right, would never bother me. And then like, what are the other threads? It's like, you know, Ben Guzer for one scene is the great Jackie Treehorn.

• 2:03:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:03:57David Sims?

  Who doodles himself with a giant cock.

• 2:03:59Speaker 05

  The funniest, I mean, I maybe the funniest line to me after rewatching the movie is where they go to the guy's house, they find the paper in the car and they go to the kid's house and the father's in like.

• 2:04:12Griffin Newman?

  In the iron lung.

• 2:04:13Speaker 05

  Iron lung.

• 2:04:14Griffin Newman?

  Who was, not even the creator, but he wrote a lot of episodes of branded.

• 2:04:19David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:04:20Speaker 05

  And he goes, does he write still? And the lady goes, no, he has health problems.

• 2:04:25Griffin Newman?

  The coven moment of walking into the house, seeing the iron lung before you can even make out there's a person in it.

• 2:04:33Speaker 05

  His little head.

• 2:04:34Griffin Newman?

  And immediately going, that's him.

• 2:04:35Speaker 05

  That's him.

• 2:04:37Griffin Newman?

  And Brandon is like a real fucking gun smoke also ran.

• 2:04:41David Sims?

  It's like a shitty gun smoke. Exactly. That ran for like, you know.

• 2:04:44Griffin Newman?

  That was like more racist. It was called branded because it was about like fighting the Native Americans.

• 2:04:49David Sims?

  Oh my gosh. I think it was pretty racist.

• 2:04:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:52Speaker 05

  And did they use the branded theme song later?

• 2:04:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I think so, right?

• 2:04:56Speaker 05

  It was the first time I noticed it was this time. Does he write still?

• 2:05:01David Sims?

  I mean, imagine again, you're a critic at the time, you're again, you're here, like they, you saw Fargo, right? And like, cause that scene is like an hour 45 into a two hour movie is, do you see what happens when you fuck a stranger?

• 2:05:12Griffin Newman?

  They have never made a very long film.

• 2:05:14David Sims?

  No, this is kind of their longest movie.

• 2:05:16Griffin Newman?

  Are under 210.

• 2:05:16David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, almost all their films are under an hour 45 minute. Like, there's only a couple that are even longer. And like, I can imagine being baffled by like, wait, why do I need to watch this now? Like, you know, Walter going insane.

• 2:05:29Griffin Newman?

  Where is this going?

• 2:05:30David Sims?

  Uh, and it doesn't go anywhere.

• 2:05:31Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, the answer is the kid stole the car that sucked that got back to him.

• 2:05:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:36Griffin Newman?

  And the briefcase is missing, which never had money in it anyway.

• 2:05:39David Sims?

  Right. So it doesn't matter.

• 2:05:40Speaker 05

  Well, I think that's the answer is they really, where it goes is you kind of can see that that kid, that there was nothing in the car, nothing of value in the car.

• 2:05:48Griffin Newman?

  The kid doesn't answer and maybe i- if he had, uh, if he had kept money, he would have been more protective and defensive, even if he was not speaking.

• 2:05:57David Sims?

  Like, that's the thing about the Big Lebowski, like the scene where the dude explains it to the two cops is so funny.

• 2:06:03Speaker 05

  So funny.

• 2:06:04David Sims?

  It doesn't.

• 2:06:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. They're like, good luck with that buddy. Well.

• 2:06:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:06:07Speaker 05

  But like, that wraps up the case of that.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  They say that we're like, we'll have to, we'll have to take shifts on this.

• 2:06:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, he's like, you guys got any leads? They got leads. Lee, they got us working in shifts.

• 2:06:19David Sims?

  Yeah, but and like all those scenes like are like ultimately you're like when you pull the movie apart. Like, yeah, this is all meaningless or whatever.

• 2:06:28Speaker 05

  Funny. Yeah, like it's

• 2:06:29David Sims?

  In service of nothing.

• 2:06:30Speaker 05

  It's them colliding their own plot with reality from time to time. Like it's them acknowledging that it's completely unimportant, like that it's all so trivial. And that like the cops don't care. No one cares. It's not important.

• 2:06:44David Sims?

  The ultimate joke that the nihilists are the only people at the end of the movie who are like, where's our money? Cause they care. They care deeply. We have body sacrifice. Where the fuck is our money?

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  In a way, I think it is the most poignant thing in this movie because of course

• 2:07:02David Sims?

  Stormer, of course, we haven't mentioned it, but like right after, yeah.

• 2:07:05Griffin Newman?

  The doctor from Funny People.

• 2:07:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, the big tall guy.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:07:09Speaker 05

  He was great.

• 2:07:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes. That's a real like a treat every time I go back and watch this film again, post Funny People.

• 2:07:16Speaker 05

  Yeah. In Funny People, we literally like cast that man so we could make fun of him.

• 2:07:21David Sims?

  We just do the run of like

• 2:07:22Speaker 05

  It feels like a cheat in movie history. Like you do a thing and then make fun of that.

• 2:07:29David Sims?

  Dan Harmon's joke about, right? Is it Ace Ventura two?

• 2:07:32Griffin Newman?

  It's Ace Ventura when nature calls.

• 2:07:34David Sims?

  Where the guy, he's like

• 2:07:36Speaker 05

  He does. Yeah. He actually, and you cast him.

• 2:07:41Griffin Newman?

  That's Harmon's bit is

• 2:07:42Speaker 05

  That's the joke.

• 2:07:43Griffin Newman?

  You don't get to make me think that your character is clever for making a joke about a guy you cast.

• 2:07:48Speaker 05

  You cast to look like that guy.

• 2:07:54Griffin Newman?

  But then I love that in Funny People, he gets the joke back.

• 2:07:57Speaker 05

  Yes, he got it. Yes.

• 2:08:00Speaker 03

  To speak to the stoner thing that we were saying before, uh, with the nihilists and the avant garde artists. I love how in this movie, it's like not making the joke about how they're weirdos.

• 2:08:12Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:08:13Speaker 03

  I like that they just kind of exist.

• 2:08:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  I really, I think as a kid, I really appreciated that as I was like getting interested in

• 2:08:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  being like a

• 2:08:22David Sims?

  Everyone in this movie is quote unquote, a weirdo or on like the fringe of society. No one is nor, except for the occasional cops.

• 2:08:29Speaker 05

  The sheriff of Malibu.

• 2:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:31Speaker 05

  Or the sheriff. Once I was arrested by the sheriff of Malibu in

• 2:08:34Griffin Newman?

  The real one?

• 2:08:34Speaker 05

  For smoking weed and the whole time, it's funny. We were like smoking weed on the beach in Malibu.

• 2:08:38Griffin Newman?

  What year was this?

• 2:08:40Speaker 05

  Two thousand. So weed was still pretty illegal in LA and we were smoking weed on the beach and we kept joking that like we were a little big Lebowski fans were like, oh, the sheriff of Malibu is gonna get us. Look where the sheriff of Malibu and then like literally like next thing there's flashlights. Freeze, sheriff of Malibu, don't move. Really? Oh, no, they actually got us. Stay out of my beach community.

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  Stay out of my beach. That then with the, I really hate the fucking Eagles. Right after that, it's such a great like, like in another movie, this is like a really low point for him. And like, that's the dude's actual lowest point. He has to listen to the Eagles after getting our cup.

• 2:09:14Speaker 05

  It's another thing we stole for pineapple express was, and like, I think I remember showing our stunt person was when he gets the mug thrown at his head and there's, there's a scene where.

• 2:09:24David Sims?

  I don't know how they did that.

• 2:09:25Speaker 05

  There's, it's just a rubber mug with a sound.

• 2:09:27David Sims?

  I guess so.

• 2:09:28Speaker 05

  Cause like, there's a scene where I get a, where someone throws an ashtray at my head.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 2:09:33Speaker 05

  And it's like, I remember we showed them that. We were like, we want it to look exactly like this. Like we want it to look in, and just like how when I watched that, I was like, oh, like that's what we want is for that exact thing to happen.

• 2:09:45Griffin Newman?

  The thing that for me makes that moment land so hard, and I don't understand how he does this on a performance level. It's like Bridges is reacting on a two second delay.

• 2:09:56David Sims?

  Yeah, yes, yes.

• 2:09:58Griffin Newman?

  Right? And it doesn't feel like mistiming. It feels like this guy is so stoned that it takes a little bit longer for his body to communicate with itself.

• 2:10:07David Sims?

  You know who lives in Malibu? Iron Man. And Jeff Bridges didn't like him either.

• 2:10:11Speaker 05

  No, he didn't like him either. He's got a long storied history.

• 2:10:14Griffin Newman?

  You know who else lives in Malibu? B. Rad. B. Rad from Malibu's Most Wanted, a film he once accused Ben of liking.

• 2:10:20David Sims?

  One of the rudest things you've ever said to me.

• 2:10:23Griffin Newman?

  When Ben is like five drinks in, he'll be like, do you remember that fucking time Sims assumed I liked Malibu's Most Wanted?

• 2:10:30Speaker 05

  Once I was at a, we, I used to do these like writers roundtables where you'd punch up a movie and I was punching up, it was for Big Mama's House 2.

• 2:10:37David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:10:38Speaker 05

  And.

• 2:10:39David Sims?

  Job done.

• 2:10:40Speaker 05

  Exactly. And we were in like a production office. So there's all these posters on the walls and I was with my friend Jenny Connor, who's a writer. And she like to the table was like, you know, it's always a red flag when you come into a fucking production office and the poster for Malibu's Most Wanted is on the wall.

• 2:11:02David Sims?

  Put that one up.

• 2:11:03Speaker 05

  And the director of Big Mama's House 2 went, I directed that movie. And was he like, and it rocked? No, he was, yes, he was very insulted. Hell, yeah. That is really funny.

• 2:11:15Griffin Newman?

  I just think it is one of the funniest franchises because the setup of the first Big Mama is. He's gotta dress like this woman.

• 2:11:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, specific woman, right.

• 2:11:25Griffin Newman?

  Nia Long needs to be monitored, so you have to dress up as her mama, right? And go undercover as her gray down or whatever it's supposed to be, right? And then two and three, two is, once again.

• 2:11:37Speaker 05

  It's about jewel thieves or something.

• 2:11:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's you need to be go undercover at like a women's college to bust a jewel thief around? Maybe you should whip out that old mama costume.

• 2:11:44Speaker 05

  You got that mama suit. We invested $500,000 in that mama suit.

• 2:11:47Griffin Newman?

  He's now married to Nia Long. He's adopted her son, right? And it's like, and I'm gonna just go out and pretend to still be your mama. Big Mama three is.

• 2:11:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:11:58Griffin Newman?

  Hey, Nia Long's son, it's time you take up the family business pretending to be mama.

• 2:12:04Griffin Newman?

  Not just dressing up as an old lady, but like.

• 2:12:06Speaker 05

  Specifically mama.

• 2:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Mama is important to American crime, taking down these rings.

• 2:12:13Speaker 05

  Mama works.

• 2:12:14Griffin Newman?

  Mama works. Mama plays.

• 2:12:16Speaker 05

  Mama's effective.

• 2:12:18Griffin Newman?

  Um, I want to say to Ben's point. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Especially at this point in time. Yep. The Coen brothers get hit a lot with this idea, this criticism, especially from their skeptics of like, are they just fucking nihilists? Right. They put a bunch of dumb characters on a board. They make fun of them. Crime movie in which nothing matters and people die and everything was kind of pointless. And they're mocking everyone. And the nihilists in this movie are the only characters who are like doing something, right? Who like have like.

• 2:12:45Speaker 05

  They're the only ones who care.

• 2:12:46Griffin Newman?

  Right, are trying so hard to sell the idea that they don't care.

• 2:12:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:12:50Griffin Newman?

  And have other people repeat the idea that they don't care. And that's their defining characteristic. And yet they're willing to like fucking lose toes.

• 2:12:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:12:59Griffin Newman?

  To make money.

• 2:13:00Speaker 05

  They just want money is what's.

• 2:13:01Griffin Newman?

  Right. Which I think like. Do you think they want to make another record? Like, is that what they want to do? Right. But in the name of what you're like, what we're saying of like, this is a movie that feels like the Coen brothers were willing to die to make.

• 2:13:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:13:11Griffin Newman?

  It's a movie about like, no, we like all these people. We find these characters interesting. These movies are not condescending. We are not nihilists. Nihilists are kind of like broken.

• 2:13:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:13:22Griffin Newman?

  Right, if you actually don't care about anything, what are you covering for? No one just naturally doesn't care about anything. And that this movie is a bunch of people who have their own things they want to do. And they're all just fighting each other for how to get to it.

• 2:13:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  But all of them are just like, I want to be seen as this philanthropist. I want to be a performance artist. I want to be the ultimate chiller. You know, I want people to view me as an American hero. You know, I, Jesus wants to be the greatest bowler rather than the greatest pederast.

• 2:13:49Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 2:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Like, everyone has this sort of sense.

• 2:13:52Speaker 05

  I get that. I get why you'd want that.

• 2:13:53David Sims?

  I mean, it's so sweet. It's so sweet at the end that Walter starts talking about Vietnam. Like, obviously, it's sad that he can't let it go. And it's weird. It messes up Donnie's sad little funeral. And the dude justifiably gets mad at him. But you do feel for Walter that he's like, I don't understand why bad things have happened to me.

• 2:14:14Griffin Newman?

  It's the great Vietnam thing of like, young men were told they had to do this thing that then, like, the world said, like, this was bullshit and it never should have happened. And you're like, so what were my scars for?

• 2:14:25David Sims?

  And then, like, the movie ends with the stranger, like, you know, being like, hey, how you doing? You know, and the dude's like, the dude abides and I'm chilling out. And you do feel a comfort in that. And the stranger being like, it's nice, right?

• 2:14:35Griffin Newman?

  I guess it's good, the dude abides.

• 2:14:36Speaker 05

  I guess it's good. It's comforting knowing this guy's just out here.

• 2:14:39David Sims?

  Out. And then, like, you know, another, Little Bowsky's on the way. So it's sad Donnie had to die, but like, you know, life keeps moving on. And like, I feel like it's a hopeful movie.

• 2:14:50Griffin Newman?

  Heart attack. It's meaningless. It didn't, it, it had nothing to do with the plot machinations.

• 2:14:54David Sims?

  Well, maybe he got a little worked up.

• 2:14:55Griffin Newman?

  They think he was shot.

• 2:14:57David Sims?

  No, I know. Yeah, no, I know.

• 2:14:58Speaker 05

  People think he was shot?

• 2:14:59Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying in the moment, in the scene, they're like.

• 2:15:02Speaker 05

  Well, he also missed for the first time. And then he, and he's sort of fucking with his head, like.

• 2:15:06Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:15:06David Sims?

  He certainly. He knows he's off.

• 2:15:08Speaker 05

  He knows there's something going on with him.

• 2:15:09Griffin Newman?

  Something's going on.

• 2:15:10David Sims?

  Buscemi's so good in this.

• 2:15:11Speaker 05

  Oh, he's so good.

• 2:15:13David Sims?

  Like, just the, the joke of them being like, Buscemi, sorry. I was, uh, like of them being like, you won't have any dialogue in this movie, basically. And him being like, yeah, that's fine. I'll still create like a character people will never forget.

• 2:15:25Griffin Newman?

  But you'll never be heard.

• 2:15:27David Sims?

  Right. Basically. Like, the opposite of.

• 2:15:28Speaker 05

  You're gonna yell that all the time.

• 2:15:30Griffin Newman?

  He's so good. And it's kind of like invisible, like Yeoman's work, because you're like, the point is to do the thing that feels like it doesn't matter.

• 2:15:37Speaker 05

  It's also amazing in comparison to what he just had done in Fargo. Where like, he doesn't shut the fuck up.

• 2:15:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:15:43Speaker 05

  He's like a fucking rat-a-tat-tat-tat energy that like, yeah, dominates the entire movie. Reservoir Dogs was a few years before that. Like, he's sort of known for being this like. Smarter than everyone, kind of more clever than everyone.

• 2:15:56Griffin Newman?

  He's usually kind of playing the Walter, the guy who is getting so worked up about it.

• 2:16:00Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah, angry, aggressive in a comedic way, but then, yeah, in this that he's just sort of like the dopey guy who's a step behind all the time. It's so good.

• 2:16:08Griffin Newman?

  Have you, have you ever worked with Goodman? I was trying to do this calculation in my head.

• 2:16:13Speaker 05

  I don't think I've ever met John Goodman.

• 2:16:15David Sims?

  He feels kind of hard to like pin down in a way like.

• 2:16:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, McBride got him. He's had him for years. McBride got his ass.

• 2:16:23David Sims?

  He's doing great work with him.

• 2:16:25Speaker 05

  Yeah. But no, he to me was like, honestly, like when I started acting, he's one of those people I looked at as like, oh, like he's like

• 2:16:31Griffin Newman?

  But I was.

• 2:16:32Speaker 05

  Evidence I could perhaps be a professional actor.

• 2:16:35Griffin Newman?

  I know in, in this rewatch, I, it's why I wanted to ask you this. I was like, is he quietly a humongous influence on you as an actor?

• 2:16:43Speaker 05

  Absolutely. And like really was, was with channel. And it's funny because for years I wanted to be Jonah in Superbad or the Seth role in Superbad. And my take on it was very much derivative of Walter, like Teen Walter. What the fuck? Just screaming at people. What are you talking about? Just kind of always so angry that like, no one's quite on my rhythm or, or, or like following what I want, wish everyone was following. And, and Jonah found honestly was probably like a much more endearing way of doing it than what I imagined I would have done, but it was very inspired by John Goodman. And I, I loved him. And, and like Roseanne, I was a huge fan of and thought he was so funny. And you know, King Ralph, I was a big fan.

• 2:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Hey, we just, we just did a big King Ralph live show in tribute of Ben's respect for the king.

• 2:17:30Speaker 05

  I like that movie.

• 2:17:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:31Speaker 05

  It's a funny movie. The whole royal family dies in the opening.

• 2:17:35Griffin Newman?

  Nothing funnier than that.

• 2:17:36David Sims?

  Fucking funny is the most like, yeah, it's a pretty good bit.

• 2:17:39Griffin Newman?

  David, in your, uh, I don't know if you know about David's brackets.

• 2:17:44Speaker 05

  Your brackets?

• 2:17:45Griffin Newman?

  Or his spreadsheets. I'm sorry.

• 2:17:47Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:17:47Griffin Newman?

  But that David has spreadsheets for every years of the movies, uh, he has seen and what he would nominate in every category at the Oscars.

• 2:17:54Speaker 05

  Amazing.

• 2:17:55Griffin Newman?

  You gave Goodman two best supporting actor wins, right? It's this and Barton Fink?

• 2:17:59David Sims?

  Correct. I think those are just-

• 2:18:01Speaker 05

  He's also good in Barton Fink. Uh, Barton Fink's not a movie I particularly respond to.

• 2:18:05David Sims?

  Interesting.

• 2:18:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:18:06David Sims?

  That's cause you're-

• 2:18:07Speaker 05

  I haven't seen it in a long time.

• 2:18:08David Sims?

  That's cause you've, you've bent Hollywood to your, your will.

• 2:18:11Speaker 05

  Exactly. I honestly think it's, I don't, I honestly, I just don't fucking get it.

• 2:18:17Speaker 05

  It's like, I don't think I get this movie.

• 2:18:18David Sims?

  I love Barton Fink, but I do have him, yes, as my best supporting actor of 1998. That is absolutely the case.

• 2:18:24Griffin Newman?

  He's incredible in both of them. They both feel like they should be like, if not career cappers, cause obviously he had so much more work to do, but like, congratulations, we acknowledge you.

• 2:18:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:18:33Griffin Newman?

  And it's just crazy that we're like 30 years later and he still remains like one of the most grossly un-nominated, not just for Oscars, but you're like, he won one Emmy for fucking Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip?

• 2:18:46Speaker 05

  That's insane.

• 2:18:47Griffin Newman?

  That's the only time they ever gave it to him?

• 2:18:49Speaker 05

  John Connor?

• 2:18:50Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:18:50David Sims?

  Everyone for Roseanne.

• 2:18:51Speaker 05

  He is so good on these shows.

• 2:18:53David Sims?

  He's always incredible. Roseanne is the best.

• 2:18:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:55David Sims?

  I mean, we love Roseanne, we love like-

• 2:18:57Griffin Newman?

  It's why the Connor's still ripped.

• 2:18:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like, he's so amazing on that show.

• 2:19:02Griffin Newman?

  But you watch this and you're just like, this is an astonishing performance that I was about to say no one else on the planet could do, but Mel Gibson could do it in a way that would-

• 2:19:10Speaker 05

  Mel Gibson could have done it pretty well.

• 2:19:12Griffin Newman?

  Changed laws earlier.

• 2:19:13Speaker 05

  The fuck off, Donny!

• 2:19:14David Sims?

  The fucking look on his face after he rolls out of the car and the Uzi goes off and it's just like him, kinda deadpan, looking off in the distance, it's so funny. He is so good every time he has to admit he's wrong, but won't do it, but kind of will just sort of like go quiet.

• 2:19:30Speaker 05

  He kinda doesn't care, it's whatever, dude.

• 2:19:33David Sims?

  Fuck it, let's go, boy.

• 2:19:34Speaker 05

  Fuck it, yeah, it's like, he instantly diminishes his own failures in media, like, right away, he's able to write off his own shortcomings.

• 2:19:41Griffin Newman?

  But the idea, like, when he does his big outfit change into the sort of like covert military fatigues, right? He's been doing his sort of like flak jacket, like full Millius thing.

• 2:19:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:19:50Griffin Newman?

  And now it's like, we're on a secret mission, I need to be stealth, and then going to the sort of businessman mode at the end.

• 2:19:56Speaker 05

  And this is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass, is like, one of the all-time great comedic scenes in a movie.

• 2:20:02Griffin Newman?

  Agreed, and also one of the great weird TV censorship edits of all time.

• 2:20:06Speaker 05

  What do they say?

• 2:20:07Griffin Newman?

  The cable version of this movie and that line gets repeated so much, is this is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps, which is weird as a one-off statement, but when he has to say it 10 times. It's insane. It starts feeling hallucinatory.

• 2:20:22David Sims?

  It's funny because right this I guess is a cable classic.

• 2:20:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:25David Sims?

  But I think of it as also.

• 2:20:26Speaker 05

  This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps. That's pretty good.

• 2:20:31David Sims?

  That's good. Um, like, like it's a DVD classic to me, like an early deep, right?

• 2:20:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:20:38David Sims?

  This was a movie everybody had.

• 2:20:39Griffin Newman?

  It's part of the proliferation of what you're saying of like, there wasn't a big canon of stoner movies. This movie is like cresting at a point where it's like DVDs are cheap, available. Every college student has a player because they either have a video game system or a computer or a TV or whatever it is. And this movie's on Comedy Central all the time. It's on basic cable.

• 2:20:58Speaker 05

  And there's like theaters that are doing like Lebowski night and shit like that.

• 2:21:02Griffin Newman?

  Immediately.

• 2:21:02Speaker 05

  Like right away.

• 2:21:02Griffin Newman?

  Two, three years.

• 2:21:03Speaker 05

  Serving white Russians.

• 2:21:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:04Speaker 05

  Showing up in robes and shit like that was, that was happening a lot. Yeah.

• 2:21:08Griffin Newman?

  My other favorite TV edit line is of course Scarface, where in the original, the first interrogation, they go, uh, how do you get that scar big guy? Uh, and the line in the movie is eating pussy. And the line in the cable edit is eating pineapple? And I like it because there is an internal logic to it.

• 2:21:27David Sims?

  Sure. There's like.

• 2:21:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, you could, you could get it. You just shoved your face in a one.

• 2:21:30Griffin Newman?

  If you didn't eat it right.

• 2:21:32David Sims?

  Before we played the box office game.

• 2:21:34Speaker 05

  We used to spend a lot of time on those.

• 2:21:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Well, so Kelly Clarkson, you said was basically designed to be on.

• 2:21:39Speaker 05

  Movie though. We used to, but I remember we used to, we would steal one from, I remember melon farmer was from, I think, Die Hard, maybe like I grew up watching John McClane saying, you be Kaya melon farmer.

• 2:21:50David Sims?

  Yes. And that's in pineapple express.

• 2:21:52Speaker 05

  So in pineapple express. But I actually think, I actually think we put it in the actual movie. Like I think Danny just says melon farmer. The actual movie itself. But yeah, we would try to get really creative.

• 2:22:03David Sims?

  I was like, right. Cause like four year old virgin knocked up. These are movies where I was like, I can't believe it. The freaks and geeks guys are making movies. This is great. Pineapple express was like, did this escape from a lab? Like that was a little bit more like, I can't believe this is allowed.

• 2:22:14Griffin Newman?

  I, yeah.

• 2:22:15Speaker 05

  We felt the exact same way.

• 2:22:17Griffin Newman?

  As like a summer movie with a budget.

• 2:22:19Speaker 05

  Like machine gun.

• 2:22:21Griffin Newman?

  I watched Freaks and Geeks like on broadcast on NBC when it aired, which took so much effort to track down where it was.

• 2:22:29Speaker 05

  Nights like three times.

• 2:22:30Griffin Newman?

  And even the summer burn off of the last couple of episodes.

• 2:22:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, they would be off for three weeks and then came back.

• 2:22:36Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, yeah, catching like episodes I'd missed on Fox Kids, going to the fucking Paley Center, then the Museum and Television and Radio to be like, I think I haven't seen four.

• 2:22:45Speaker 05

  It's so crazy.

• 2:22:46Griffin Newman?

  You know, Kim Kelly never aired.

• 2:22:47Speaker 05

  My friend never aired.

• 2:22:48Griffin Newman?

  Then I get that yearbook DVD, my like freshman year of high school.

• 2:22:51Speaker 05

  That was what we all got.

• 2:22:52Griffin Newman?

  And it's finally I have control. I can rewatch it when I want.

• 2:22:55Speaker 05

  In order.

• 2:22:56Griffin Newman?

  Yep. With the commentaries, the context and all that, that also in high school, I get so into David Gordon Green in those first three movies. And when in like 2008, it's like, there is an action comedy.

• 2:23:07Speaker 05

  Directed by David Gordon Green.

• 2:23:09Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck are you talking about? Like, I had the same reaction, David, where I was like, this is actually just impossible.

• 2:23:15Speaker 05

  It was weird. It was very weird. Yeah. But honestly, we wanted them to be artful movies and part of us were like, the obvious version of Pineapple Express is like, he's just like a dumb stoner.

• 2:23:25Griffin Newman?

  Get the director of Malibu's Most Wanted.

• 2:23:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. Literally. And we were like, we were big George Washington fans and we loved all the real girls. And we were like, oh, what if we got sort of like a fancy indie guy to make this movie?

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  But all the real girls.

• 2:23:38Speaker 05

  Again, that's what I mean. We're just like, who allowed this?

• 2:23:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. Like, yeah. All the real girls have those.

• 2:23:42Speaker 05

  The answer is Amy Pascal.

• 2:23:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, bless her. Yep.

• 2:23:45Speaker 05

  And what's funny, to her credit, she let us make the movie. She let us hire whoever the fuck we wanted. They never came to set. They never said anything. We were at the first test screening for the movie and like it played and tested very well. And there was like a moment early on where it's just like annihilating and Amy is sitting beside me and she turns to me and she goes, now I get this movie. And I was like, now you get it?

• 2:24:10Griffin Newman?

  You never got it?

• 2:24:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. We spent $25 billion on this. We're at the test screening and like to her credit, she just trusted us. And she was like, I, I, I assume I'll get it eventually. And, and she did.

• 2:24:23Griffin Newman?

  We talk about her a lot on this podcast because I think especially for us covering the 2000s and the 2010s of studio filmmaking and when sort of blank check movies were able to come out of these careers, you're just like, she was the one studio head where you can look at her and you're like, she took chances on people. She like developed movie stars.

• 2:24:41Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 2:24:41Griffin Newman?

  She identified people in places that people wouldn't have assumed.

• 2:24:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:24:45Griffin Newman?

  You could take this person there.

• 2:24:47Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:24:47Griffin Newman?

  And would just be like, I want to make things that are artful and commercial at the same time.

• 2:24:52Speaker 05

  Yeah. And actually it's like exactly the opposite of how movies are made now, basically, which is, yeah, she would. Believe in an idea.

• 2:25:00Griffin Newman?

  And you can balance it out.

• 2:25:01Speaker 05

  Or a person and and allow them to go make a movie without every element being a sure thing.

• 2:25:07Griffin Newman?

  If if we own Spider-Man, that gives us the latitude to be able to incubate some side projects and.

• 2:25:13Speaker 05

  And to make like a twenty million dollar movie and we're also making Men in Black two this year.

• 2:25:17David Sims?

  So.

• 2:25:17Speaker 03

  Right, right. So it'll be fine.

• 2:25:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. It'll ultimately be.

• 2:25:20David Sims?

  And Men in Black two, I mean, no problems with that.

• 2:25:23Speaker 05

  Great movie. All Chinese. You kidding me?

• 2:25:26Speaker 05

  Old timer.

• 2:25:27Griffin Newman?

  I did another at Comic Con. I did another like ten drinks in. Can I tell you the pitch that Sims and I had for Men in Black?

• 2:25:34David Sims?

  Yeah, sure, right.

• 2:25:35Griffin Newman?

  This is like a formative moment in Sims and I's friendship as we were at a bar.

• 2:25:38David Sims?

  We broke the story.

• 2:25:39Griffin Newman?

  Men in Black two was playing on a par. It was it was years before we had the podcast and we were like, is there any version of this that works?

• 2:25:46Speaker 05

  And was there?

• 2:25:47Griffin Newman?

  We came up with one we thought was pretty good.

• 2:25:48David Sims?

  The whole problem with Men in Black two is the undoing Tommy Lee Jones's triumph at the end of Men in Black.

• 2:25:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:25:53David Sims?

  It's hard. Like, it just kind of fucks up the movie to begin with.

• 2:25:56Griffin Newman?

  You want him to have his happy ending. So our answer was the movie is that he's basically Siobhan Fallon Hogan. That Jay is missing his partner. He gets told that an alien crashed and he needs to interrogate the witness.

• 2:26:11Speaker 05

  Ah.

• 2:26:11Griffin Newman?

  And the witness is the neuralized Tommy Lee Jones.

• 2:26:13Speaker 05

  Oh, that's great.

• 2:26:14Griffin Newman?

  He's married.

• 2:26:15David Sims?

  Flip it.

• 2:26:15Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, I don't believe in aliens.

• 2:26:16Speaker 05

  That's a great idea. That would have been good.

• 2:26:18Griffin Newman?

  And they get to team up and he's like, I'm here with my best friend again, who doesn't remember me, but I don't want to neuralize him because I'm enjoying the time we're spending together. And it's like midnight run. It's them in three days trying to solve the case and the one guy's a skeptic.

• 2:26:30David Sims?

  I guess, I mean, like the problem with Men in Black two is instead it's just like, go in this room, be, okay, you're Tommy Lee Jones again.

• 2:26:36Speaker 05

  You're back. You're back.

• 2:26:36Griffin Newman?

  Cool. But also it's worse that it's that the movie starts and they show up and he's like, my wife left me. I'm working at the post office.

• 2:26:43Speaker 05

  Man, Jesus. Why don't we, you know, we fought for this.

• 2:26:45David Sims?

  Yeah, anyway, Men in Black one, great movie.

• 2:26:49Speaker 03

  Should we do final thoughts?

• 2:26:50David Sims?

  Yes. Anything else you want to say about Biggle Basket before we play the box office game?

• 2:26:53Speaker 03

  I want to shout out Dama Arera.

• 2:26:56Speaker 05

  Dama Arera.

• 2:26:57Speaker 03

  Oh, he's really funny as just a little tiny cameo.

• 2:27:00David Sims?

  Uh, he plays, um.

• 2:27:01Speaker 05

  The landlord?

• 2:27:02David Sims?

  The, uh, the limo driver.

• 2:27:03Speaker 05

  The limo driver. Oh, the limo driver. That's right.

• 2:27:05Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the landlord is also great. He was in some other movie.

• 2:27:07David Sims?

  The landlord's name is, uh, Jack Keller. And he's in a, he's in a ton of stuff, but he's so fucking funny. He's in, um, he's one of the guys in the Austin Powers Spy Who Shagged Me run of dick jokes.

• 2:27:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:19David Sims?

  He's the, the guy, I can't remember which one, but he's in the.

• 2:27:22Griffin Newman?

  I probably have the card for him.

• 2:27:23Speaker 05

  That little joke is also like so reminiscent of like being. Like in Los Angeles, friends and people are like, oh, you gotta go to this weird show.

• 2:27:32Griffin Newman?

  But you know what's a great character detail?

• 2:27:35Speaker 05

  They go.

• 2:27:35Griffin Newman?

  That they go. That he goes and that he's eager to go. That like, that's a great Bridges choice.

• 2:27:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:27:41Griffin Newman?

  That he doesn't play it as like, oh yeah, I'll go to that. He's like, yeah, man, absolutely.

• 2:27:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. And then they go and they're not making them like, it's clearly sucks, but there's not, they're not making fun of it.

• 2:27:51Speaker 05

  They're just happy, they're totally happy to support him.

• 2:27:53Griffin Newman?

  You learn so much about the dude from the fact that he is the one guy who wants to go see his landlord's creative side.

• 2:27:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, he knows.

• 2:28:00Griffin Newman?

  Who's eager to do it.

• 2:28:01David Sims?

  Appropriately horny, if that makes sense, like he responds to all of the horniness coming at him with the right amount of horniness.

• 2:28:08Speaker 05

  Yes. He's not overly horny or underly horny.

• 2:28:11Griffin Newman?

  Kind of like overwhelmed, like he's just kind of like, it also sort of happens to him.

• 2:28:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:28:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Might be Tara Reid's best performance.

• 2:28:19Speaker 05

  Oh, she is great in it.

• 2:28:20David Sims?

  Yes, she beat out Heather Graham for the role, uh, which makes sense, I guess. Heather Graham just been boogying us. Uh, the, obviously the gag of the chair falling down, like him building the thing to block the, the door from being opened.

• 2:28:35David Sims?

  I, I know it's simple, but I think about it all the time.

• 2:28:37Speaker 05

  Funny joke.

• 2:28:38David Sims?

  Same with Treehorn drawing like just a picture of himself in a dick.

• 2:28:41Speaker 05

  Thing is one of the weirdest jokes.

• 2:28:43David Sims?

  It's such a good encapsulation of the movie of like, ah, a clue.

• 2:28:46Speaker 05

  A clue.

• 2:28:49Speaker 05

  Nothing, nothing matters.

• 2:28:51Griffin Newman?

  But also like, I will say, my mother always had a notepad near the phone growing up, near the landline.

• 2:28:56David Sims?

  My mom did too.

• 2:28:57Griffin Newman?

  And I would look at it afterwards and like, 5% of the time it was something that someone said.

• 2:29:02David Sims?

  Doodling.

• 2:29:02Griffin Newman?

  Most of the time it was doodles. And you're like, this guy would just doodle himself with a boner. That's what he would doodle. It doesn't mean anything.

• 2:29:10David Sims?

  Oh, God.

• 2:29:11Speaker 05

  It's like the one time the dude does something smart.

• 2:29:13David Sims?

  Right. He like notices that they do.

• 2:29:16Speaker 05

  The one time.

• 2:29:18David Sims?

  He doesn't realize he's being thrown.

• 2:29:21Griffin Newman?

  It goes into like Hitchcock vision for five seconds where like he's putting the pieces together. I also just love that like all the wind up on Jesus is just to do the payoff at the end of him being angry that they still showed up at the bowling alley on the night they said they couldn't bowl.

• 2:29:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:29:36Griffin Newman?

  You just expect that. For some reason, this guy is gonna factor into the plot in a major way at the end, and he could not be.

• 2:29:42Speaker 05

  Has anyone seen the like Jesus spin off movie?

• 2:29:45David Sims?

  I'm scared to watch that.

• 2:29:46Griffin Newman?

  Literally no one has ever.

• 2:29:47Speaker 05

  Literally no one. John Turturro didn't see it. Yeah.

• 2:29:50Griffin Newman?

  The weirdest thing about that.

• 2:29:51Speaker 05

  He was directed with his eyes closed.

• 2:29:53David Sims?

  It's so crazy. Like Pete Davidson and Jon Hammer in it like.

• 2:29:56Speaker 05

  Really?

• 2:29:57Griffin Newman?

  It's got like 10 big people.

• 2:29:58David Sims?

  Because like Turturro's friends with people and it's like, yeah, I'm making a movie. Stop by.

• 2:30:02Speaker 05

  If they asked me to be in it, I probably would have said yes.

• 2:30:05David Sims?

  Why should I fucking done it?

• 2:30:06Griffin Newman?

  The weirdest thing is that it's like, it's a, it's a sidequel to Lebowski where he basically went. Cause I think the story is that he used to do this character. He would do like character monologues as a version of this character.

• 2:30:19David Sims?

  He was in a play and like sort of had done something like this and he was like, that's what I'll do.

• 2:30:23Griffin Newman?

  They were inspired by that and then they sort of like write it in and then he was like sort of since I kinda made the characters a cool if I do something.

• 2:30:30David Sims?

  Well, I think the coins are also like, uh, the dude showing up to the, his landlord's thing. They're like, yeah, man, what do we care?

• 2:30:36Griffin Newman?

  That's their attitude with the Fargo show and everything. They're just like, you do what you want to do. It's fine.

• 2:30:40David Sims?

  Right. We're not afraid that our movie will be like corrupted by that.

• 2:30:43Griffin Newman?

  But for years it would like he'd mentioned in interviews and people would be like, oh, there's gonna be a Lebowski sequel? John Turturro's gonna write and direct a Lebowski sequel, assuming it's a more straightforward thing. And then it's like, no, he wants to remake a seventies French. Gerard Depardieu sex comedy.

• 2:30:58Speaker 05

  Oh, is that what it is?

• 2:30:59Griffin Newman?

  It is. It's this movie Going Places. It's about a competition to see who can get laid more.

• 2:31:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:04Griffin Newman?

  That he decided.

• 2:31:05Speaker 05

  But it's about eight year olds.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  But that's the other thing. The movie I think makes him.

• 2:31:10Speaker 05

  Like he's a pedophile.

• 2:31:12Griffin Newman?

  Ignores that part, which then you're like, then what is the guy?

• 2:31:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. You, I know one thing about him.

• 2:31:17Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:31:18Speaker 05

  Two, he likes bowling and he's a pedophile.

• 2:31:20Griffin Newman?

  He likes bowling and children.

• 2:31:21David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, eight year olds, dude. This eight year olds, dude. This film came out March 6th, 1998.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  Last thing, gotta shout out the Dylan song.

• 2:31:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, the band.

• 2:31:31Griffin Newman?

  So good. To your point of like, right, songs getting repeated or repurposed, this is a weird case of a movie that uses all songs that are not obscure and yet feels like it claims ownership of them.

• 2:31:43Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 2:31:44Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like it has that kind of like.

• 2:31:46Speaker 05

  What condition my condition was in. Uh, yeah, the band in me for sure.

• 2:31:50Griffin Newman?

  But it like, does the risky business like old time rock and roll thing eight times where you're like, well, that's now the song from the big Lebowski, a song that had a reputation for decades.

• 2:31:58Speaker 05

  Like Mariachi version of Hotel California. Well, cause it really like, it is like a nineties. Scorsesean or Tarantinoian, maybe they're the same thing type thing where it is like shamelessly aggrandizing of a character using Needle Drop and and shots in slow motion and and and and I love it. And it's something we do. Again, it's like we do that like when Danny McBride shows up and this is the end. Like, I literally remember showing RDP the sequence from the It's like this. It's like a musical interlude to introduce a new guy. And we are like shameless about it.

• 2:32:36David Sims?

  But it's perfect. It's like you copy what works. Like

• 2:32:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, steal from the best.

• 2:32:40David Sims?

  All right. March 6th, Griffin, 1998. I don't know if that was the right. I don't know if there was a right time to release this movie. It doesn't really feel right, but

• 2:32:47Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:32:48Speaker 05

  Like spring break.

• 2:32:49David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:50Griffin Newman?

  But this is right. This movie needed to exist in order for people to understand how it could exist.

• 2:32:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:32:56Griffin Newman?

  It had to be the first.

• 2:32:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. It was taking a hit no matter what.

• 2:32:59David Sims?

  Right. It opens to like $5 million, number six at the box office. It's released by Gramercy Pictures. And like, you know, makes, what does it make? 18 million dollars.

• 2:33:13Griffin Newman?

  Thing. It's a big flop and yet no one

• 2:33:15David Sims?

  Kind of made its budget back.

• 2:33:16Griffin Newman?

  Because they always kept their budget small.

• 2:33:18David Sims?

  And also probably sold like 4 billion DVDs.

• 2:33:20Griffin Newman?

  Oh, now, now I am sure it is one of the 10 most profitable movies in the Universal Library.

• 2:33:24Speaker 05

  At this moment in time, like, any movie made like 30 to 40 million dollars on DVD sales.

• 2:33:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:33:31Speaker 05

  Like, like, if it's a movie you've heard of, it made 30 million.

• 2:33:34Griffin Newman?

  And this one possibly made like 300. Yeah.

• 2:33:38David Sims?

  Uh, what's number one at the box office, Griffin? It's been number one for three months.

• 2:33:41Griffin Newman?

  Ah, fuck. Uh, it's Titanic.

• 2:33:42David Sims?

  Titanic. It won't be knocked off for another month.

• 2:33:44Speaker 05

  Three months.

• 2:33:45David Sims?

  Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

• 2:33:46Speaker 05

  Fucking

• 2:33:47David Sims?

  It's just like, yeah, forget it.

• 2:33:48Griffin Newman?

  Lost in Space comes out in April, end of April.

• 2:33:50David Sims?

  Lost in Space is the movie that knocks it off.

• 2:33:52Speaker 05

  Oof, I saw that on shrooms.

• 2:33:54David Sims?

  Hmm, that's not a good one to see on shrooms.

• 2:33:56Speaker 05

  Real bother.

• 2:33:57David Sims?

  You're gonna turn into a spider monster.

• 2:33:59Speaker 05

  We didn't like, it was a lot scarier than we thought it was.

• 2:34:01David Sims?

  Exactly. It's like dark and metallic.

• 2:34:03Speaker 05

  We were like, this is a mistake.

• 2:34:06Griffin Newman?

  So Man in the Iron Mask and Spice World come out in January and February and those were the two that people thought could dethrone Titanic.

• 2:34:13David Sims?

  They're gone.

• 2:34:14Griffin Newman?

  They're gone. At this point, it's like Titanic.

• 2:34:16Speaker 05

  You got, I saw all these movies in the.

• 2:34:17David Sims?

  You got four new releases in this top 10. Big Lebowski is the lowest of them. So number two at the box office is a sequel to a huge action movie.

• 2:34:27Speaker 05

  Undersea.

• 2:34:27Griffin Newman?

  US Marshals?

• 2:34:28Speaker 05

  Territory.

• 2:34:28David Sims?

  Great movie, but no, it is US Marshals, which is a bad movie.

• 2:34:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. With Robert Downey Jr.

• 2:34:33David Sims?

  With Robert Downey Jr. With like, can we do The Fugitive without Harrison Ford? Just have Tommy Lee Jones chase a new guy.

• 2:34:41Speaker 05

  Wesley Snipes.

• 2:34:42David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:34:42Speaker 05

  With Robert Downey Jr.

• 2:34:43David Sims?

  Robert Downey Jr. Is the bad guy or kind of like the?

• 2:34:45Speaker 05

  He's like the third man. He's like the assistant. He's like, Tommy Lee Jones is like new. He's the new Jolie Pants.

• 2:34:51David Sims?

  That's Robert Downey Jr.'s like, I don't, I was not conscious while filming.

• 2:34:56Speaker 05

  He's like, this was like a heroin fever dream. Yeah.

• 2:34:58Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, this is still maybe one of 100.

• 2:35:00David Sims?

  You still kind of crush every line you're thrown. Uh, cause that's the whole thing where I like, Ally McBeal was like, one of the first times I was exposed to him. And I was like, this guy's a genius. And he's like, no memory of ever being on a show. Do not know I did that.

• 2:35:13Griffin Newman?

  I thought I was in Bulgaria.

• 2:35:15David Sims?

  Right. Number three, the box office, great movie, comedy hit.

• 2:35:18Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:35:19David Sims?

  Big star, kind of early in his run. Yeah, for sure. I've been out for a month.

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Early 98, so it's a February 98 release.

• 2:35:27David Sims?

  Sure. Yep. And it's made 47, 57 million dollars. It's gonna make 80.

• 2:35:31Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna end up at 80 as of February.

• 2:35:34David Sims?

  And it's like the start, it's not the start of this guy's career. He's been around.

• 2:35:37Speaker 05

  It's an Adam Sandler movie. It's like Big Daddy or something.

• 2:35:40David Sims?

  Big Daddy. It's Wedding Singer.

• 2:35:42Griffin Newman?

  It is kind of, that, that is the level of.

• 2:35:45David Sims?

  Wedding Singer is kind of like Sandler. Like it's like, yeah, not just dumb.

• 2:35:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like good.

• 2:35:49David Sims?

  I mean, I love Happy Gilmore and Billy Madison. I wrote, it was like, oh, he can kind of do like something with some drama.

• 2:35:54Speaker 05

  Probably his like best reviewed.

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it was. It was kind of the crossover. Cause it was like, oh, he can be a viable romantic lead. He's playing a little bit more of a human being.

• 2:36:03Speaker 05

  The first one they like sort of take seriously a little bit in any capacity. It's a good movie.

• 2:36:07Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore received similarly than this was sort of like, the guy's got a motion. And then six months later. Uh, big daddy comes out.

• 2:36:17David Sims?

  Right. It goes water boy then big daddy.

• 2:36:19Griffin Newman?

  Ninety eight and then big daddy's.

• 2:36:20David Sims?

  God, he was fucking crushing.

• 2:36:22Griffin Newman?

  He was unstoppable.

• 2:36:23David Sims?

  On fire.

• 2:36:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was on fire.

• 2:36:25David Sims?

  He still is.

• 2:36:26Griffin Newman?

  He's that.

• 2:36:27David Sims?

  He's more on fire than ever before.

• 2:36:30Griffin Newman?

  He might, he might be.

• 2:36:32David Sims?

  He might be winning.

• 2:36:32Speaker 05

  I was out with Aziz and we were having dinner and we were like, we were talking about Adam Sandler and we just like, our, our, our waitress was like, you know, like a 25 year old woman. And we were like, who's your favorite comedian? Adam Sandler. Right away. We go to like the coach. Who's your favorite comedian? And like, and it's almost, it's not, it's almost like they don't know there's another one. And like, and like me and Aziz are like, ah, like, we're like, you're getting asked this question by two famous comedians and you don't even think of naming them. Out of politeness, you don't even, they didn't even consider it. They're just like, oh, Adam Sandler. Fuck you guys. Not even close.

• 2:37:07Griffin Newman?

  Do you know the other part of it too is like, he's the kind of guy where like, who's your favorite comedian? Eddie Murphy. And you're like, Eddie Murphy's like an actor who does comedy movies now. He's not like generating comedy in the same way.

• 2:37:17David Sims?

  Sandler does.

• 2:37:18Griffin Newman?

  Fuck it does comedy again.

• 2:37:19David Sims?

  And he's still so funny.

• 2:37:21Speaker 03

  God, that special is so good.

• 2:37:23David Sims?

  He's so funny.

• 2:37:24Griffin Newman?

  He's done three specials in the last 10 years?

• 2:37:26David Sims?

  Yeah. And they're so funny. They're amazing.

• 2:37:28Griffin Newman?

  Sandler's the man.

• 2:37:29David Sims?

  Yeah, he's the best. Number four, uh, yeah, number four, also new hard boiled neo noir thriller with gigantic movie stars. That is now remembered for only one thing.

• 2:37:40Griffin Newman?

  It's not eight millimeter. It's remembered for one thing. Is the thing memified in it?

• 2:37:44David Sims?

  It's a thing his character knocked up would know.

• 2:37:47Griffin Newman?

  It's, okay. So it's got a nude scene.

• 2:37:49David Sims?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:37:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Two giant stars, early 98.

• 2:37:52David Sims?

  Three giant stars.

• 2:37:53Griffin Newman?

  Is it Twilight?

• 2:37:54David Sims?

  Yes. Three Academy Award winners. Reese Witherspoon gets naked in it is what's the only thing. Paul Newman, Gene Hackman, Susan Sarandon.

• 2:38:03Griffin Newman?

  Whoa, directed by Robert Benton.

• 2:38:05David Sims?

  The guy who made Kramer versus Kramer. Yeah.

• 2:38:08Griffin Newman?

  And David is correct. The only reason I know that movie exists.

• 2:38:11David Sims?

  Reese Witherspoon gets naked.

• 2:38:12Griffin Newman?

  Is because in 2003, I Googled Reese Witherspoon nude and there was only one result.

• 2:38:16David Sims?

  I mean, it's also got like Stalker Channing and like John Spencer.

• 2:38:20Griffin Newman?

  Lots of great actors.

• 2:38:21David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. I don't know this movie. I don't know what it's about. It's like a. What's it called? Twilight. Yeah, that's the other thing. It's now ungoogled. Yes.

• 2:38:30Griffin Newman?

  I know nothing about it, other than the fact that I've seen one scene from it 200.

• 2:38:33David Sims?

  200,000 times.

• 2:38:35Griffin Newman?

  I know that scene very well.

• 2:38:37David Sims?

  It's funny because like Gene Hackman was a guy they wanted for The Big Lebowski and he was like, I'm the kind of not making movies right now. And it's literally opening against a Hackman.

• 2:38:45Griffin Newman?

  And Twilight was a bigger hit.

• 2:38:46David Sims?

  Well, by about $500,000. They're all making about five.

• 2:38:50Griffin Newman?

  What's Twilight end up at?

• 2:38:52David Sims?

  Twilight, which is not a movie and I remember is ends up at, come on, the numbers, 15 mil. Oh, so Lebowski.

• 2:38:59Griffin Newman?

  Lebowski.

• 2:39:00David Sims?

  He kicked its ass. Number four at the box office, another kind of forgotten movie is like a erotic thriller about like, I mean, I've seen it. I saw it like on VHS's a long years ago, you know, Lady Mary's, there's like a mean mom, Lady Mary's a guy and the mom is bad.

• 2:39:17Griffin Newman?

  The mother in law?

• 2:39:18David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, mother in law.

• 2:39:20Griffin Newman?

  It's an erotic thriller with an evil mother in law?

• 2:39:23David Sims?

  Either evil mom and the, the, the female leads are like a established Oscar winning actress and like an up and coming about to win an Oscar winning actress.

• 2:39:31Griffin Newman?

  98.

• 2:39:32David Sims?

  I don't know if you'll know this movie.

• 2:39:33Griffin Newman?

  So it's like three big stars. It's the, the new husband.

• 2:39:37David Sims?

  Stars. Then no, the husband is a guy who never.

• 2:39:39Griffin Newman?

  The husband's like a Billy Campbell or something?

• 2:39:40David Sims?

  I mean, I feel bad saying that, but yeah.

• 2:39:42Griffin Newman?

  Is it Billy Campbell?

• 2:39:43David Sims?

  No, no, no.

• 2:39:45Griffin Newman?

  Here's how I know, here's how I know when it's a Billy Campbell movie. David goes, the star of this, you're never gonna guess. And I go, it's a Billy Campbell movie. The third lead in this, it's someone you're never gonna guess.

• 2:39:55David Sims?

  That was the Rocketeer.

• 2:39:56Griffin Newman?

  It's Billy Campbell. Um, okay, okay. So it's bad. The actress is, she's going to win an Oscar.

• 2:40:03David Sims?

  Wins an Oscar for a movie this year.

• 2:40:05Griffin Newman?

  It's not Gwyneth.

• 2:40:06David Sims?

  It is Gwyneth Paltrow.

• 2:40:08Griffin Newman?

  Gwyneth, mean mother in law erotic thriller?

• 2:40:11David Sims?

  People just don't remember this. I don't know this movie at all.

• 2:40:13Griffin Newman?

  Is it a perfect murder?

• 2:40:14David Sims?

  It's called. No.

• 2:40:14Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:40:15David Sims?

  That's like.

• 2:40:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. That's Michael Douglas.

• 2:40:16David Sims?

  Michael Douglas. Douglas and. That's like a dial in from murder.

• 2:40:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What, what is this movie?

• 2:40:21David Sims?

  Movie's called Hush. Oh yeah, I've heard of that. There's another movie, also another movie called Hush, I think.

• 2:40:27Griffin Newman?

  There's a Flanagan, right?

• 2:40:29David Sims?

  Which is a real killer movie.

• 2:40:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Fucks up the SEO.

• 2:40:32David Sims?

  Um, Jessica Lange is the mean mom. Yeah.

• 2:40:34Griffin Newman?

  I have no memory.

• 2:40:35David Sims?

  God bless this man, Jonathan Shake, the guy from that thing you do. Jonathan Skeek. Skeek. Skeek. I think it's pronounced. It's Jonathan.

• 2:40:47Speaker 05

  Excuse me?

• 2:40:48David Sims?

  That's when Hollywood finally was like, junk this guy. Say his fucking name.

• 2:40:53David Sims?

  Like, I, the guy had a totally good career. I don't mean to shit.

• 2:40:56Griffin Newman?

  Was married to Christina Applegate. Nice work if you can get it. Yeah.

• 2:40:58Speaker 05

  She was almost Christina Schenck.

• 2:41:01David Sims?

  He thought about it for five.

• 2:41:02Speaker 05

  Thought about. Apple, Applegate. Christina Schenck.

• 2:41:06David Sims?

  Right, right, yeah, hyphenate maybe.

• 2:41:08Speaker 05

  Applegate Schenck.

• 2:41:09David Sims?

  Number six is Big Lebowski. Number seven is Good Will Hunting, which is also hanging out.

• 2:41:15Griffin Newman?

  What's it up to at this?

• 2:41:15David Sims?

  One oh three.

• 2:41:16Griffin Newman?

  Wow. What is, and it gets to one thirty?

• 2:41:19David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:41:19Speaker 05

  See, that's fucking crazy.

• 2:41:21David Sims?

  Yes, it's fucking March.

• 2:41:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:23David Sims?

  It got to one forty.

• 2:41:24Speaker 05

  That would, that would never happen in a hundred million years.

• 2:41:28Griffin Newman?

  And like came out in September?

• 2:41:30David Sims?

  No, I mean, what would have happened by now in like this year is Good Will Hunting would have been like released for free to your phone without you even asking.

• 2:41:37Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 2:41:38David Sims?

  Forget VOD. They would have just been like, oh my God, just put it on TikTok.

• 2:41:41Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:41:42David Sims?

  Like, it's a hundred and eighty videos.

• 2:41:44Griffin Newman?

  The modern version of this is Good Will Hunting comes out in four theaters in September.

• 2:41:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 2:41:48Griffin Newman?

  And by March, at the time of the Academy Awards, there's already three spinoff streaming series.

• 2:41:53Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 2:41:54Griffin Newman?

  And the show has been directly loaded onto your brain since the day after it came out.

• 2:42:00David Sims?

  Uh, number eight on Along the Same Lines is James L. Brooks is As Good As It Gets, a very good movie in my opinion.

• 2:42:05Speaker 05

  Best Picture that year.

• 2:42:07David Sims?

  Was nominated. It lost to Titanic.

• 2:42:09Speaker 05

  Oh, but did he, or Jack?

• 2:42:10Griffin Newman?

  He was. Jack won and Helen Hunt.

• 2:42:12David Sims?

  And Helen Hunt won.

• 2:42:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Do you think that movie is as good as it gets?

• 2:42:15David Sims?

  I do.

• 2:42:16Griffin Newman?

  You think it's actually as good as movies?

• 2:42:18David Sims?

  Great Times Noodle Salad.

• 2:42:19Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:42:20David Sims?

  Uh, number nine is Dark City, very underrated.

• 2:42:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:42:23David Sims?

  It's a huge bomb, but a good movie.

• 2:42:24Speaker 05

  That Alexander, uh, what?

• 2:42:27David Sims?

  Alex Proyas.

• 2:42:28Speaker 05

  Proyas.

• 2:42:28David Sims?

  The crow guy.

• 2:42:29Speaker 05

  Yes. I like that movie.

• 2:42:30Griffin Newman?

  That movie was good.

• 2:42:31Speaker 05

  That was sort of like a pre-Matrix, Matrix.

• 2:42:33David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:42:34Griffin Newman?

  They reuse a lot of the sets, I think. A lot of the rooftops, because they also shot in Australia.

• 2:42:38Speaker 05

  Oh, that's funny.

• 2:42:39Griffin Newman?

  I think the opening, like Trinity Chase at, uh, in.

• 2:42:42Speaker 05

  Oh, he's a Dark City.

• 2:42:43Griffin Newman?

  Is mostly Dark City sets.

• 2:42:44Speaker 05

  It's amazing.

• 2:42:45Griffin Newman?

  Uh, really good recent four K release.

• 2:42:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I like that movie.

• 2:42:48David Sims?

  Uh, and then number ten.

• 2:42:49Speaker 05

  Christopher Suewell.

• 2:42:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, hottie.

• 2:42:51Griffin Newman?

  Jennifer Connelly.

• 2:42:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:42:52David Sims?

  Seen him on the stage. He's a hottie. Uh, number ten is The Borrower, speaking of John Goodman.

• 2:42:57Speaker 05

  Oh, um, kids movie.

• 2:42:59David Sims?

  Kids movie.

• 2:42:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:43:00Griffin Newman?

  But that must be a couple of weeks in. Or did this bomb really fucking hurt?

• 2:43:04David Sims?

  Four weeks in. And number 11, we got to shout it out, Krippendorf's Tribe. Anytime I ever see Krippendorf's Tribe on, I'm Walt Disney released that, man.

• 2:43:11Speaker 05

  That's the.

• 2:43:12David Sims?

  Richard Dreyfuss. Inventing a tribe.

• 2:43:14Speaker 05

  Pretends he's Mrs. Van der Strade.

• 2:43:16Griffin Newman?

  I did this trilogy. I.

• 2:43:17David Sims?

  Disney was like, yes.

• 2:43:19Speaker 05

  Mr. Holland's Opus, Krippendorf.

• 2:43:20Griffin Newman?

  No, different trilogy.

• 2:43:21Speaker 05

  Really? That's not the same trilogy?

• 2:43:23Griffin Newman?

  I had a head cold at some point last fall and I was like, ah, what's, I need like some syllabus.

• 2:43:28Speaker 05

  Jungle to jungle.

• 2:43:29David Sims?

  Jungle to jungle.

• 2:43:30Speaker 05

  Krippendorf's Tribe.

• 2:43:31Griffin Newman?

  It's three Disney live action family comedies that reappropriate.

• 2:43:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:43:35Griffin Newman?

  Tribal into jungle.

• 2:43:36Speaker 05

  Jungle to jungle and the air up there.

• 2:43:39David Sims?

  You know what? That's a good one.

• 2:43:40Griffin Newman?

  It should have been.

• 2:43:41Speaker 05

  Good one, should have been.

• 2:43:41Griffin Newman?

  My third one was Man of the House.

• 2:43:44Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:43:45Griffin Newman?

  Which is the Jonathan Taylor.

• 2:43:46Speaker 05

  Another movie.

• 2:43:47Griffin Newman?

  Chevy Chase movie that is all about their like scouts.

• 2:43:50Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:43:50Griffin Newman?

  But gets deep into the lore of what they're, it's, it, the duology is really strong and then the house, I'm kind of.

• 2:43:57David Sims?

  I get it. I think Air Up There is a solid one though.

• 2:43:59Speaker 05

  I think it's a good movie.

• 2:44:00David Sims?

  It's a pretty good.

• 2:44:01Griffin Newman?

  I don't think.

• 2:44:01David Sims?

  That's just kind of dramatic. Like the thing about Air Up There is like, oh, it's funny.

• 2:44:05Speaker 05

  It's a tone that doesn't exist anymore is what's funny.

• 2:44:09Griffin Newman?

  Is that a shelter? No, or an Underwood? Is it an Underwood?

• 2:44:12Speaker 05

  Might be an Underwood.

• 2:44:13David Sims?

  It might be an Underwood. It's not, no, directed by Paul Michael Glazer of Starsky and Hutch.

• 2:44:17Griffin Newman?

  And the Running Man.

• 2:44:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:19Speaker 05

  There's these tone movies that just don't exist anymore where you're like, they're not really funny. They're not really dramatic. They're sort of like somewhere in the middle. They're.

• 2:44:27David Sims?

  They cost like 20 million dollars.

• 2:44:29Speaker 05

  And then they, and they, and in 1998, they make 200 million dollars.

• 2:44:34Griffin Newman?

  Also just like walking through the video store as a child and seeing that box and being like, here's all I need to know.

• 2:44:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:44:39Griffin Newman?

  Kevin Bacon, not a comedy star, starring in something that's seemingly a comedy where he's up against a really tall African man and a basketball hoop.

• 2:44:47Speaker 05

  I saw that shit in theaters.

• 2:44:49Griffin Newman?

  I think I know what this is.

• 2:44:51David Sims?

  He gets circumcised in it. That's the only thing I remember.

• 2:44:53Speaker 05

  I saw it on a double, I saw it as double feature with Airborne.

• 2:44:56Griffin Newman?

  Airborne?

• 2:44:57David Sims?

  Airborne?

• 2:44:57Speaker 05

  The rollerblading movie? Well, you guys don't know Airborne? That Airborne screams fucking balcony movie or whatever. Port Vale.

• 2:45:06Griffin Newman?

  Do you know Airborne, Ben?

• 2:45:08David Sims?

  Yeah, here it is. Yeah, this is kinda in like the Three Ninjas.

• 2:45:11Griffin Newman?

  Seth Green, Jack Black.

• 2:45:13Speaker 05

  I wouldn't quite put it in Three Ninjas. Three Ninjas, I put in its own genre that I also love.

• 2:45:17David Sims?

  Of masterpieces.

• 2:45:18Speaker 05

  I'd say it's like kids beating up adults.

• 2:45:21David Sims?

  Yes, you're right.

• 2:45:22Speaker 05

  That is part of like homo, like the kids.

• 2:45:24David Sims?

  The whole early 90s, right? Now is your time to get one over on it.

• 2:45:28Speaker 05

  Kids beating up adults genre.

• 2:45:29David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:45:30Speaker 05

  Kids setting traps for adults.

• 2:45:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:31Speaker 05

  I'd say that is that genre.

• 2:45:32Griffin Newman?

  Directed by Rob Bowman, who does X-Files, X-Files the Future.

• 2:45:37Speaker 05

  Jack Black's in it. Seth Green's in it.

• 2:45:39Griffin Newman?

  E.D. McClurg?

• 2:45:40Speaker 05

  Yeah. And the star of it, I don't think ever went on to anything.

• 2:45:43Griffin Newman?

  Shane McDermott.

• 2:45:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:45:45Griffin Newman?

  Seth Green is second billed. Wow.

• 2:45:47David Sims?

  Yeah, you don't want Wikipedia to not even have a link to your name, but that is.

• 2:45:50Speaker 05

  But yeah, I think I think I saw the air up there in Airborne. Or no, maybe I'm thinking of Cool Runnings, which is another sort of.

• 2:45:55Griffin Newman?

  That's a Disney.

• 2:45:56Speaker 05

  Questionable.

• 2:45:58Griffin Newman?

  More respectful than the three I listed. This is, this is a classic, the thing you love Sims. Uh, Airborne has three taglines.

• 2:46:05David Sims?

  Oh, I love it when a poster can't decide what to tell you.

• 2:46:09Griffin Newman?

  The poster is young guy and girl canoodling, right? And then above them are three inline skaters.

• 2:46:16Speaker 05

  It's all that rolling blade.

• 2:46:17Griffin Newman?

  Treading air, right? In front of like a blue, like white cloud background.

• 2:46:21David Sims?

  Wow, the taglines are so fucking crazy.

• 2:46:23Griffin Newman?

  Mitchell became the most popular guy on earth, dot, dot, dot, once he took to the sky. And once in sky are in a different font and a different color. Then second tagline.

• 2:46:33Speaker 05

  Not what happens in the movie.

• 2:46:35Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure not.

• 2:46:36Speaker 05

  He's not the most popular guy on earth.

• 2:46:38David Sims?

  At any point.

• 2:46:39Griffin Newman?

  The second tagline is like rainbowing.

• 2:46:41David Sims?

  It says, man wasn't meant to fly, kids were.

• 2:46:44Griffin Newman?

  But it's like an.

• 2:46:45Speaker 05

  I like that one.

• 2:46:46David Sims?

  That one's pretty good.

• 2:46:47Griffin Newman?

  Canoodling head. And then the third tagline is the classic, the tagline leads into the title.

• 2:46:51David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:46:51Griffin Newman?

  Heroes aren't made.

• 2:46:53Speaker 05

  They're airborne.

• 2:46:54Griffin Newman?

  They're, dot, dot, dot.

• 2:46:56Speaker 05

  Genius. That's actually really good. Heroes aren't made their airboard is.

• 2:47:01David Sims?

  Gotta watch Airborne. God, taglines are fun. You don't come up with the taglines, right? Like, they tell you here's a tagline.

• 2:47:06Speaker 05

  We, we.

• 2:47:06David Sims?

  You've done that?

• 2:47:07Speaker 05

  For pineapple.

• 2:47:08David Sims?

  Put this in your pipe and smoke.

• 2:47:09Speaker 05

  We came up with that. We came that up with that as tag. Funny is for Superbad.

• 2:47:13David Sims?

  Superbad had no tag.

• 2:47:14Speaker 05

  Exactly. They kept pitching us bad taglines and we were, and it was one of the things where we just like ran out the clock on it. We're like, if we just don't approve any of these, maybe there will be.

• 2:47:22David Sims?

  The title was kinda the tagline. The whole thing of like your face.

• 2:47:26Speaker 05

  What if this guy got pregnant? That was the tagline.

• 2:47:28David Sims?

  Right. That, that made sense. I got that.

• 2:47:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:47:31David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. A Forty Year Old Virgin was, uh, there's always.

• 2:47:34Speaker 05

  Better late than never.

• 2:47:35David Sims?

  Better late than never.

• 2:47:35Speaker 05

  Which is also pretty good.

• 2:47:37David Sims?

  Yeah, it's like in the studio, which we should plug the studio now, but then everything else. I'm sure our listeners, I think, would not be able to lock in with, would mean nothing to them. The Ron Howard episode is tangential, but I do think like, it must be so awkward and you have to sit down and they're like, okay, so here's what we have.

• 2:47:52Speaker 05

  That's exactly how that goes.

• 2:47:53David Sims?

  Posters and taglines and like, yes.

• 2:47:55Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:47:56David Sims?

  And if you hate it, you have to be like, ah, shit.

• 2:47:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. I've been there. You, you pray there's something you like so you could at least sort of be positive. Oh, I think we all like that one.

• 2:48:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:48:06Speaker 05

  But no, I've come out of a lot of those meetings where, yeah, they, it's very bad and it's very.

• 2:48:12David Sims?

  Start from square one.

• 2:48:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. And you're like, you have to start over and this is not good.

• 2:48:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:48:16Speaker 05

  That, that happens a lot.

• 2:48:17David Sims?

  Um, so yeah, the studio, uh.

• 2:48:20Speaker 05

  Studio.

• 2:48:21David Sims?

  And it's returning, right? We're getting more studio.

• 2:48:23Speaker 05

  Currently writing the second season.

• 2:48:24David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:48:24Speaker 05

  Fuck yeah.

• 2:48:24David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:25Speaker 05

  All right.

• 2:48:25David Sims?

  Platonic.

• 2:48:26Speaker 05

  Platonic season two.

• 2:48:27David Sims?

  And Sausage Party, you have two.

• 2:48:29Speaker 05

  And Sausage Party, season two.

• 2:48:30David Sims?

  Returning.

• 2:48:31Speaker 05

  One's on Amazon. Sausage Party's on Amazon Prime, Amazon.

• 2:48:34David Sims?

  Almost on streaming.

• 2:48:35Speaker 05

  It's on streaming.

• 2:48:36David Sims?

  Almost on streaming.

• 2:48:37Speaker 05

  And Platonic season two's on Apple TV plus.

• 2:48:39David Sims?

  When did, when did they debut or do you?

• 2:48:41Speaker 05

  Uh, I'm not, I don't a hundred, what is the, I think Sausage Party debuts this week, maybe the 12th, I think. And I think maybe Platonic aired a couple of days ago, August 6th, I think. So.

• 2:48:51David Sims?

  Yeah, it just came back. Right. Absolutely. Yes. Right.

• 2:48:53Speaker 05

  By the time this is out, maybe they'll both.

• 2:48:54David Sims?

  Yeah, it's out in a couple of weeks. Like, it's all still available. Yep. It's on the soup. Yeah. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I'm thinking, like, what's the Seth Rogen movie we should plug that nobody has seen enough? The guilt trip. I push the guilt trip. This wall? So much. Take this.

• 2:49:09Speaker 05

  Walt's really good. That's a good movie.

• 2:49:11Griffin Newman?

  Sarah Paul is like.

• 2:49:11Speaker 05

  Very few people have seen that movie.

• 2:49:13David Sims?

  That movie rocks. That movie rocks. I love that movie.

• 2:49:15Griffin Newman?

  But Gil Trip, like as a.

• 2:49:16David Sims?

  Griffin, I will say, he's not buttering you up. He loves that movie.

• 2:49:20Speaker 05

  I haven't watched it since it came out.

• 2:49:21Griffin Newman?

  I think it's really good.

• 2:49:23Speaker 05

  It might be, maybe.

• 2:49:24Griffin Newman?

  You've told that story about reading the script and it made you cry and being like, I guess I gotta do this.

• 2:49:27Speaker 05

  Yes, and then I, and then making the film, there it was a little more conflicted.

• 2:49:33Griffin Newman?

  I, I think it's still good and it got to me emotionally.

• 2:49:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, it is. I mean, Dan Fogelman wrote it, who is like an objectively talented writer and, and I think there was a few, there's a few plot twists and turns in the movie that I would also say are like objectively effective, like.

• 2:49:50David Sims?

  He's good at those.

• 2:49:51Speaker 05

  Yes, like he, he is good at them, but I think the movie itself, I think maybe was not ultimately as good as it could have been, in my opinion.

• 2:49:58Griffin Newman?

  Maybe it's not as good as it gets.

• 2:50:00Speaker 05

  And about like, I got to sit in a car with Barbra Streisand all day.

• 2:50:03Griffin Newman?

  He's so good in it.

• 2:50:03Speaker 05

  She's amazing and like.

• 2:50:04Griffin Newman?

  And she never fucking does movies anymore.

• 2:50:06Speaker 05

  She doesn't do movies anymore and I got to just be like, what was JFK like? Tell me stories about that. You ever meet Elvis? Tell me what he was like. Like, it was, it was great and I would just do that all fucking day. Like, it was, it was wonderful. Yeah.

• 2:50:19David Sims?

  Man, I just saw that there's this interview with Mariah Carey with like, are you gonna go to space like Katy Perry? And she's like, you went to space?

• 2:50:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 2:50:26David Sims?

  And they're like, yeah, she went to space. You gonna do that? She's like, I've done enough. That's how I imagine Streisand is. She's like, yeah, that was cool. I don't know.

• 2:50:33Speaker 05

  I've done a lot of stuff.

• 2:50:35Griffin Newman?

  She's done a lot of. Okay, well, we'll plug, we'll plug Gil Trip and take this Walt's.

• 2:50:38David Sims?

  Yeah, and everything. I had Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles recently. We.

• 2:50:41Griffin Newman?

  We covered that on Patreon.

• 2:50:42David Sims?

  That movie.

• 2:50:43Speaker 05

  Good movie.

• 2:50:43Griffin Newman?

  Ben, Ben, uh, kind of swears by the, the Church of Bebop and Rocksteady. I don't know if you know this, but David has young twins and I have taken to code naming them Bebop.

• 2:50:52Speaker 05

  Oh, that's funny.

• 2:50:52Griffin Newman?

  And Rocksteady and I gave them Bebop and Rocksteady toys for their birthday.

• 2:50:55Speaker 05

  Oh, nice. We're also working on a sequel to that.

• 2:50:57David Sims?

  Very excited for that.

• 2:50:58Speaker 05

  Coming along very well, I think. Yeah.

• 2:51:00David Sims?

  Kellen, he participated.

• 2:51:01Griffin Newman?

  Kellen Jett and Woodrow White, who, who were, uh, two of the big designers on the movie.

• 2:51:07Speaker 05

  They did an amazing job.

• 2:51:08David Sims?

  Yeah, they were, uh, they participated in our art show.

• 2:51:11Speaker 05

  Oh, that's cool.

• 2:51:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they did a painting of Ben as the bunny kid from Gummo.

• 2:51:15Speaker 05

  Oh, that's amazing.

• 2:51:16Griffin Newman?

  That I got for Ben's birthday. Kellen did that. It was very nice.

• 2:51:18David Sims?

  That's a fun movie.

• 2:51:19Speaker 05

  Your kids know Gummo?

• 2:51:20David Sims?

  They need to know Gummo. They need to. I'm trying to do as much as I can.

• 2:51:25Griffin Newman?

  Can we rescind all your plugs for your own project?

• 2:51:27Speaker 05

  And just cut. I'm more than happy to.

• 2:51:31Griffin Newman?

  If you're under the age of 25, the plug is watch Gummo.

• 2:51:34Speaker 05

  It's like, I mean, it's funny because it just be, it like, it was a wild time in movies.

• 2:51:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:38Speaker 05

  Like, and, and, and there wasn't so many movies that these things went under your radar. Like, if you were, if you were clued into movies, I remember at this time feeling like no movie came out I was unaware.

• 2:51:51Griffin Newman?

  I completely.

• 2:51:51Speaker 05

  Like, I never went to the video store.

• 2:51:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:51:54Speaker 05

  And saw a movie I'd never heard of.

• 2:51:56Griffin Newman?

  And like Big Lebowski wasn't an A24 movie. It was a failed attempt to make a mainstream crossover comedy.

• 2:52:02David Sims?

  All of these streamers who, you know, employs that sometimes, so we love them. But, you know, they like actively keep those movies from you because they're like, no, come on, you want one of these 40 movies.

• 2:52:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, right. Like, you know.

• 2:52:12Griffin Newman?

  Don't you want to get electric?

• 2:52:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:15Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 2:52:15David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. All right, come on, let's be done.

• 2:52:17Griffin Newman?

  Thank you for being here.

• 2:52:18Speaker 05

  My pleasure. This was great.

• 2:52:20David Sims?

  Seth, um, thank you so much for doing this podcast. You're, that's very silly of you.

• 2:52:24Speaker 05

  I'm just very happy to do this.

• 2:52:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Ben, thank you for the White Russians. They be hitting.

• 2:52:27David Sims?

  Yeah, they did hit.

• 2:52:28Speaker 05

  They're perfect. They were wonderful.

• 2:52:30David Sims?

  They were well made, to be clear.

• 2:52:31Griffin Newman?

  Just a good 1pm White Russian.

• 2:52:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's perfect.

• 2:52:34David Sims?

  And I'm going to go back to my family?

• 2:52:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:36Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 2:52:37Griffin Newman?

  Uh, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Tune in next week for Oh Brother?

• 2:52:43David Sims?

  Yeah, right. That's their follow-up.

• 2:52:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it is a bit of a gap for them.

• 2:52:46David Sims?

  Nah, two years. It's not bad. Felt. Uh, great movie.

• 2:52:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:49David Sims?

  Uh.

• 2:52:50Griffin Newman?

  Our friend Emily St. James returned to the show.

• 2:52:52David Sims?

  Yep.

• 2:52:52Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and as always, Seth, not to put you on the spot, but with this moment, this opportunity, is there anything you want to say? Perhaps any apologies you want to make to young Sammy Fable?

• 2:53:03Speaker 05

  Sorry, what? Sorry for what I did to your family?

• 2:53:05David Sims?

  You bought him, you bought him a nice camera.

• 2:53:09Speaker 05

  I apologize.

• 2:53:13Speaker 05

  I should never have done that.

• 2:53:21Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive

• 2:54:03Speaker 03

  franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social @BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

• 2:54:17Speaker 04

  Way out west.

• 2:54:19Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 2:54:20Speaker 05

  Nope.

• 2:54:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:54:21Speaker 04

  Way out, way out west. Hmm, let's see. Just want to take another look at you. I gotta, I gotta Jackson Maine my way into this.

• 2:54:28Speaker 05

  I like your style.

• 2:54:30Speaker 04

  I like your style, dude. But then I feel like, what am I getting? I'm getting into something else here. Like your style, dude. And I'm now re-strategizing based on how short an amount of time I think I can sustain this voice. Okay.