Pod Insights Betrayal Donielle | Featured on ABC's Betrayal: Secrets and Lies About this episode You can now watch Donielle’s story on TV! Check out Betrayal: Secrets and Lies. Episodes air every Sunday at 10pm EST/9pm CST on ABC.
Donielle’s life descends into chaos when the FBI raid her house, searching for her husband and two of their family friends. She learns the extent of her husband’s horrific crimes and grapples with a life built on his lies.
If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts.
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Transcript 13,623 words · 7 speakers
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1:02 Speaker 00 She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.
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2:02 Speaker 00 It's Andrea and we are re-releasing some of our past weekly episodes and there's a good reason why. For the last year, I have been working with ABC on turning some of your favorite episodes of Betrayal Weekly into a TV show. The show is called Betrayal, Secrets and Lies and it airs every Sunday at 10:00 PM on ABC. This week, we are re-releasing Danielle's story. You may have heard Danielle's story before, or you may be new to her story. A little bit about Danielle. I absolutely adore her. People always ask me when I tell them what I do, "How do these people not know?" And I'm always protective of my storytellers when I hear that.
2:45 Speaker 00 Danielle's story is such a clear example of what we call betrayal blindness. You don't assume the worst about the person you love. You assume they're going to work every day. You assume your life is what it appears to be. You don't assume they have a dungeon. And while all of that was happening, Danielle was raising six kids. Homeschooling them, running a household, showing up every single day, trying to be the best mom and partner she could be. When I was catching up with her recently, her new husband kept popping in and checking in on her as she was talking to me.
3:27 Speaker 00 Just these small, tender moments, making sure she was okay, it struck me how different that kind of love feels. It was steady, it was present, it was safe. And that's what makes her story so powerful, because it's not about what she missed. It's about how much she was holding, how much she was giving, and how deeply she trusted. Danielle, if you're listening, I hope you loved New York City. If you have not heard this story, I won't give any more away. Hearing Danielle's story is fascinating, but seeing it unfold is a whole new experience.
4:06 Speaker 00 So, please check out Betrayal, Secrets and Lies on ABC and Hulu to see Danielle and see where the story took place. Enjoy the episode.
4:21 Speaker 04 One of my children saw his dad dressed all in black. And he said that it seemed like his dad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed. And the night before that, he had actually told my oldest child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape, and find a black raincoat for him to wear. And she was like, "Okay, Dad."
5:00 Speaker 00 I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.
5:10 Speaker 00 One night in 2017, Danielle Oliver Chauvet was awoken by the FBI and state police. They were pointing guns at her, demanding to know where her husband was. That night, she learned the man she had spent 20 years with was hiding some very big secrets. This is Danielle's first time telling her story. She's been reluctant to share what she went through because, as you'll hear in part two, her husband has other victims. She wants to be respectful of their experience and suffering. But this episode isn't about her husband's crimes. It's about the 20-year marriage Danielle built with him, the ways he deceived and violated her,
5:53 Speaker 00 and the shocking betrayal that ended it all. It's also the story of being totally in the dark about your partner's double life.
6:01 Speaker 04 I used to watch Lifetime shows, and I used to be that person saying, "Oh, she had to know something." So I totally understand why people say things like that. But until you are actually walking in those shoes and living with a person who can be completely double-faced, living a completely separate life, all I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw. He was able to do everything else completely separate.
6:39 Speaker 00 Danielle grew up in a hap- Happy, tight-knit family in California.
6:46 Speaker 04 Family is very important to me. We were just over at my parents', all of my siblings, and we all just get along really well. There's hardly ever any arguments within our family. And when there is, it's resolved within the day.
6:59 Speaker 00 Growing up, Danielle's parents were her role models. They had a respectful and happy marriage. It was an environment that nurtured her easygoing and trusting nature.
7:10 Speaker 04 I had a really good childhood, and so I didn't grow up with a lot of strife or bad things happening in my childhood where that trust was broken down.
7:20 Speaker 00 She was raised with a strong sense of faith. That's still one of her core values.
7:26 Speaker 04 I know some religions can be like really strict. You can do this, you can't do this.
7:31 Speaker 04 I wouldn't even say that mine is a religion. It's a relationship with Christ.
7:37 Speaker 00 Danielle's one of those rare people who loved high school. She was popular, and she had a longtime high school boyfriend named Billy.
7:46 Speaker 04 When we were teenagers, everybody thought for sure that we were just gonna be together forever. You know, we were the thing.
7:53 Speaker 00 Right before their senior year of high school, Billy proposed to her, and she said yes. But then...
8:01 Speaker 04 I actually had to move to Hawaii because my dad was working for the military, and we moved there.
8:06 Speaker 00 She ended up spending her senior year in Hawaii. Then she got accepted to college in Illinois. She was ready to start a new life there without her high school boyfriend. Giving up her first love was hard, but she wanted to prioritize her independence. Danielle thrived in college. She loved her major, which was art, and she also loved going to Bible study on campus. That's where she met Chad.
8:34 Speaker 04 He was raising his hand and answering the questions like right away, and he was answering the way I would have answered those questions, right in line with the way I believed. So I was attracted to that.
8:46 Speaker 00 Immediately, she knew Chad was special.
8:49 Speaker 04 The first time I met him, I said to my parents when I got back that I was gonna marry him. So it was pretty much love at first sight.
8:56 Speaker 00 She felt comfortable around Chad. It was easy, like they'd known each other for years.
9:02 Speaker 04 We actually met at my parents' house and watched a couple of movies. And I made him lasagna and he changed my oil in my car.
9:13 Speaker 04 That was our first date.
9:15 Speaker 00 From the start, Danielle was serious about Chad.
9:19 Speaker 04 When I'm dating someone, I'm deciding whether or not this person is the person I want to marry. So I was looking for specific things that I wanted in a husband when I was dating him.
9:28 Speaker 00 And Chad checked all the boxes.
9:32 Speaker 04 There was lots of things. He grew up in a Christian home. He had a good relationship with his parents. He was business minded, like he was able to support me.
9:43 Speaker 00 Everything about him felt right. He was pursuing a degree in finance. He had dreams of starting his own business. And like her, he also wanted a big family. But most of all, she just loved being around him.
9:58 Speaker 04 I had fun with him. You know, we would laugh about lots of things.
10:03 Speaker 04 I was just attracted to the way I felt around him.
10:06 Speaker 00 While they were dating, he went above and beyond to woo her.
10:09 Speaker 04 Something about Chad, you have to know, he likes to do everything big. It always has to be the best and the grandest and the most showy.
10:17 Speaker 00 It's not who she is, but Chad said she deserved the best. And it was flattering. After about two years of dating, he made a particularly grand gesture. He bought her an expensive dress, rented a limousine, and took them to a dinner theater.
10:35 Speaker 04 And during that intermission, he excused himself. I thought he was gonna use the restroom. But he actually, it turns out, had set up beforehand with the theater that he would go onstage and ask me to marry him from the stage. And then he got down on his knee and yeah, it was quite the show.
10:54 Speaker 00 She said yes. He brought her out of her comfort zone. And it felt like a fairy tale.
11:00 Speaker 04 I was 100% this is the one that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with.
11:06 Speaker 00 Chad was involved in every step of the wedding planning, which Danielle loved. And he also wanted to go to pre-marriage counseling to discuss their expectations.
11:16 Speaker 04 We discussed who would be the breadwinner in the home. You know, what would be the different roles of both husband and wife? As far as who did what in the household. It was thoroughly discussed how our marriage would go before we got married. I mean, as far as you can, right? We did know that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. So that was talked about.
11:36 Speaker 00 Danielle had been managing her own money in her early twenties. And although she was good at it, it was a relief to be marrying someone who had expertise in finance. It made her feel safe. And so they agreed that while she would manage the household, Chad would manage the money.
11:55 Speaker 04 And I had full trust in Chad to be able to do that, too, because of his business degree. He was really good at money. And he went to school for it. I didn't have any, you know, worries about him taking over the finances for the family.
12:09 Speaker 00 She was happy with this arrangement. She's a do-it-yourself kind of person. It's an attitude that's well-suited to raising kids and running the household.
12:19 Speaker 04 My dishwasher broke down several years ago, and I wasn't about to pay somebody because I'm going to figure out how to fix it. I laid all the flooring in the house that I'm in right now. I didn't know how to do that, but I looked it up. Just went on YouTube and figured it out. So I'm that type of person.
12:36 Speaker 00 After they got married, the couple decided to move to Chad's hometown in Illinois. To call it a small town is an understatement. The entire population could fit in one high school football stadium.
12:49 Speaker 04 Well, the town we live in, Erie, is only 1,900. It's small.
12:54 Speaker 00 Small, but perfectly suited to the life that they were building, a life that centered around family and community. Plus, Chad had grown up there, so he knew nearly everyone in town. And everyone seemed to adore him. In fact, he'd been the high school valedictorian. Once they moved back to Erie, the couple also joined Chad's church, the church he grew up in.
13:19 Speaker 04 We were really involved with that church and his parents went to that church too. And we led a Sunday school together, the couple.
13:26 Speaker 00 Their life was falling into place. A happy marriage, a strong foundation based on shared values, a community that supported them, and a church they felt welcome by. And Chad was making progress in his career. He began the certification process to become a financial advisor. He wanted to start his own firm.
13:47 Speaker 04 He did it all online. Like went through classes online and got his certificate online and all that.
13:54 Speaker 00 She was proud of him. And for the time being, she kept working too.
13:59 Speaker 04 I also worked for the post office for a little bit, but that was not part of our marriage plan. I didn't want to be a working mom. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Pretty much as soon as we got married, we started trying.
14:13 Speaker 00 But conceiving their first baby didn't happen as quickly as Danielle hoped. The months turned into a year. And during that year, Chad made a shocking confession.
14:25 Speaker 04 He came home from work and sat me down and said, "I need to tell you something really important." And he just said, "I had an encounter with a guy in the bathroom and I think we need to go see somebody and talk to like a counselor about it." And so I was just like, "What is going on?" It just blindsided me, like, "What just happened?"
14:48 Speaker 00 She asked him point-blank if he was gay. He said, "No, he wasn't." She wanted more details about what actually happened, who it was with, and what they did.
14:59 Speaker 04 But he never really gave a straight answer. It was just, "We need to go talk to somebody, like a counselor about it."
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15:44 Speaker 06 Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI. AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where. Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.
16:15 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
16:30 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
16:41 Speaker 00 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Danielle was shaken and confused about her husband's confession to a one-time fling, but at the same time, Chad was doing everything he could to make it right.
17:26 Speaker 00 He confessed to it immediately. He wanted to get help, and most importantly, he was coming to her with sincere remorse.
17:34 Speaker 04 He was crying. I was crying. He was saying he's sorry.
17:39 Speaker 00 Chad wanted to get help quickly. And so the next day, they did.
17:44 Speaker 04 We actually went to the pastor and asked for advice about who we should see as a marriage counselor for us. We were given a name of a Christian counselor.
17:54 Speaker 00 They had multiple sessions with the counselor, some sessions together as a couple and some separately. During a one-on-one meeting, the counselor gave Danielle some advice.
18:07 Speaker 04 He advised me, you should really think carefully about this marriage. You know, you actually have a right to end this marriage if he is being unfaithful to you.
18:18 Speaker 00 The counselor said he'd seen a situation like this before, and he wanted Danielle to know that divorce was an option.
18:26 Speaker 04 I understood that. I knew that that's something that is perfectly fine for me to file for a divorce.
18:34 Speaker 04 But I didn't want to. I wanted to make this marriage work.
18:38 Speaker 04 I didn't even want the word divorce to come up in our marriage. Like, when I made a commitment in our marriage at the, you know, wedding ceremony, my promise was a promise. I didn't take my vows lightly.
18:51 Speaker 04 In sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, I was gonna walk through it with him. I wanted to help him resolve whatever it was that he was going through because I loved him and I wanted our marriage to work.
19:04 Speaker 00 This one infidelity, it felt small and manageable, especially compared to the years they'd spent together. Getting to know each other, studying the Bible together and building a life. She really trusted Chad.
19:19 Speaker 04 I felt like I could 100% trust him, even though he had done whatever he had done. I believed him 100%.
19:28 Speaker 00 They got a workbook on overcoming infidelity and even did the homework together. And they decided to lean on their faith. To help them rebuild their relationship. Church became an even bigger part of their lives.
19:43 Speaker 04 He was an elder in the church. We jointly were leaders for kids' Christian camps. We were very involved in our faith.
19:52 Speaker 00 Their marriage began looking up, especially when, a year later, they welcomed their first baby, a baby girl.
20:00 Speaker 04 She was an amazing first child. Super easy baby. Smiling all the time, happy, alert. It was a great, great first mom experience.
20:13 Speaker 00 Danielle was on top of the world, so filled with love for her first daughter and her young family. It confirmed to her that she really did want to be a stay-at-home mom. She just felt whole.
20:26 Speaker 04 People that we would meet, walking through a mall, always stop and say, "Oh, you have the cutest baby. She's the cutest thing I've ever seen, and your family is so cute."
20:37 Speaker 00 The difficulties she and Chad faced in the first year of marriage started to feel like they were in the rearview mirror.
20:44 Speaker 04 At that point, I felt totally in love with him and close to him. I felt like I had the perfect life.
20:54 Speaker 00 That baby would be the first of six.
20:57 Speaker 04 I knew that you could get pregnant even when you were still nursing and before you had your first cycle after pregnancy. I didn't think it was going to happen to me, but it did.
21:08 Speaker 00 Soon, Danielle's life became consumed by full-time childcare. As their kids got older, she started homeschooling them, and she loved every minute of it.
21:18 Speaker 04 I wouldn't have it any other way. I know a lot of people are like, "Wow, six kids, that's a lot." But, you know, each one of them is unique and has their own personality. Each of them is just amazing.
21:31 Speaker 04 I love it. I absolutely love it.
21:34 Speaker 00 With a growing family came more financial demands. But luckily Chad's business was taking off. They even had the ability to upgrade their house.
21:44 Speaker 04 He had been starting to look at this property that he really wanted. It was a huge house, way bigger than we needed. Enormous, huge living room, huge family room, huge dining room, huge, huge master bedroom. You know, basement that looked like a bowling alley. And so he started looking at it and dreaming about it and eventually decided that he was going to try to purchase it.
22:06 Speaker 00 Danielle didn't think it was the most practical choice, but the house made him happy. After they moved in, he tried to tell her how to run the house. But she stood her ground. She trusted him to handle the finances. So when it came to the housework, he needed to trust her.
22:24 Speaker 04 He wanted me to do things a certain way, like do laundry on a certain day, do the dishes on a certain day, or, you know, do dusting on a certain day. And I was like, "No, I will do it when it needs to be done. When I see that it needs doing, I'll do it."
22:41 Speaker 00 And there were a lot of things that needed dusting. Chad was a collector. It was a quirk that Danielle accepted.
22:49 Speaker 04 Precious Moments figurines. And he was very much a Hallmark fan, so he had millions of Hallmark ornaments. Tons of DVDs. I mean, we had two huge walls full of DVDs.
23:05 Speaker 00 They loved watching movies as a family. And after the kids went to bed, the couple would watch their favorite TV shows.
23:13 Speaker 04 Dexter and Breaking Bad.
23:17 Speaker 00 Every summer Danielle, Chad, and their six kids would take family road trips.
23:23 Speaker 04 Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore. We hit all the tourist places in the United States. We had a lot of really fun times as family.
23:37 Speaker 00 On these trips, they'd stay in huge rental homes. Chad always wanted the best of the best for the family.
23:44 Speaker 04 And they were very nice, very nice rented houses.
23:49 Speaker 04 Some of them, I was like, okay, guys, don't touch anything. You know, like expensive paintings on the walls and glass decorations.
23:58 Speaker 00 One summer, about 15 years into their marriage, the family was on one of their regular road trips. And on this trip, their rental home was in a remote area.
24:09 Speaker 04 I woke up around 2:00 in the morning. I know it was the middle of the night. All the kids were asleep.
24:18 Speaker 04 And I got up to go to the bathroom or something and turned over and he was not in bed with me.
24:25 Speaker 04 I looked around the house to see if he was just up somewhere. He was not there. I went out into the garage area. The car was gone. So I started being like, where did he go? There was no note as far as he left somewhere. He didn't leave a message on my phone. He was just gone.
24:45 Speaker 00 It was the early 2000s, so she didn't have a smartphone to look at his location. She started to worry that something terrible happened.
24:54 Speaker 04 So I started calling around to the hospital around the area. Is there any Chad skipper admitted into this hospital? No, ma'am. Thank you. Called the next hospital.
25:05 Speaker 00 Around 3:00 AM, the phone rang. It was Chad.
25:11 Speaker 04 And he said he was at Walmart. And I was like, okay, why are you at Walmart? I just thought I would pick up some stuff.
25:20 Speaker 04 But, you know, you can kind of tell when somebody's calling from the middle of a store. You can hear the hum of everything. There was no shopping cart sounds, no like cashier beeping and stuff. There was none of that. It did not sound like he was in a shopping area.
25:39 Speaker 04 I hung up the phone and just was like, how, what is happening? I don't understand. Says he's at Walmart, but it's hours away. That doesn't make any sense.
25:49 Speaker 04 And I just sat in confusion, shaking until he got home.
25:53 Speaker 00 When Chad got back, he tried to explain it away.
25:56 Speaker 04 And he apologized and said, I'm sorry I didn't tell you where I was going. Everything's fine. You're good. The kids are good. I'm back. We're safe.
26:08 Speaker 04 He blew it over.
26:10 Speaker 00 Whenever they got in a disagreement, this is what he'd tell her.
26:14 Speaker 04 His favorite phrase was, "Don't make a mountain out of a molehill." You know, "You just get really emotional about things." "It's okay, you know, calm down." Always made me feel like I was crazy.
26:29 Speaker 00 Abandoning the family in a rental house in the middle of the night with no good explanation, it just didn't sit right with her. So Danielle called her mom.
26:38 Speaker 04 She was like, "Oh, wow. Yeah, that is really weird." "I'm glad you're okay. You know, I'm glad it all worked out, but that is really weird."
26:45 Speaker 00 Danielle was the full-time caretaker for six children under 15. She didn't have the energy to fight with her husband.
26:53 Speaker 04 I didn't confront him. That's one of my personality quirks is I don't like confrontation. I would rather just not talk about it than have a huge argument about something, which is not healthy.
27:08 Speaker 04 I think it's much healthier to communicate and work it out. But at that point, I just didn't want to deal with it.
27:17 Speaker 00 Plus, whenever she did question him, it always ended up coming back on her.
27:23 Speaker 04 On the rare occasions, when I would ask questions, I would be shut down and told I was crazy, or that is totally not how it went. "You have, you know, blown this out of proportion, and you don't remember the actual fact that actually happened." "This is how it actually happened."
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28:55 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Jenna Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
29:09 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
29:20 Speaker 00 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
29:55 Speaker 00 When Danielle woke up on a family vacation to find her husband missing, he said he was picking up something for work at a Walmart in the middle of the night. She didn't quite buy the story, but she knew Chad was busier than ever, growing his financial advising firm. Around the same time, he decided to start making passive income by buying rental properties in town. It started with one small house, then two, then an apartment building in their hometown. He was so busy that he often worked from home at nights. He renovated their basement to become his home office. He even put in a king-size bed.
30:35 Speaker 04 I didn't understand why you would need a bed in your office, but he insisted on having it, and his reasons were that if he needed a nap, he could just hop into bed and take a quick nap and then get back to work.
30:48 Speaker 00 It bothered her, him staying up late like this and sleeping in his office. It also bothered her that he locked the door. He said it was a security measure because he had important financial documents in there.
31:01 Speaker 04 And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well, how do you work at night if you are a financial advisor? You can't meet with clients at night. So it was just very confusing to me. And I do remember one time just crying my eyes out to him, saying, I really want you to sleep with me, you know, at night. I just feel closer to you when we're sleeping together. Like we look more like roommates.
31:24 Speaker 00 He started coming to bed with her until she fell asleep. Then he would slip out and go back to work. She would only realize it when she woke up and found him gone.
31:35 Speaker 04 One night, I actually got up out of bed and was knocking on his basement door. And I heard no answer. And so I actually got in the car and was driving around, thinking maybe I would see his car somewhere. I never did, but it got to that point where I was like, starting to look to see if I could find anything.
31:55 Speaker 00 She never found any proof that her husband was cheating or having an affair. She didn't have the energy to start a fight with him. He insisted on sleeping in the basement. Eventually, she became resigned to the fact she couldn't change his mind.
32:11 Speaker 04 At that point in our marriage, I felt very distant from him. Like I felt like there was a wall up and we never would discuss anything. If I ever wanted to talk about anything, it was always, I'm too tired. Or can we talk about this tomorrow? Or let's talk about this this weekend, but nothing ever got talked about.
32:29 Speaker 00 In this period where Chad was sleeping in the basement office and they were bickering, Danielle knew that their marriage needed to improve. So she sought help for herself.
32:41 Speaker 04 I actually went and saw a counselor a couple of times on my own. Because I felt like me having these issues with our marriage was kind of my fault. I felt like there was something wrong with me not feeling close to him.
32:57 Speaker 04 But I wanted our marriage to be a really good marriage, and I didn't feel that it was a good marriage.
33:02 Speaker 00 She even suggested they try counseling again as a couple. But this time Chad resisted.
33:10 Speaker 04 He refused to go to more than one or two sessions with me. He felt like it was useless, or he didn't want to tell somebody else our problems.
33:24 Speaker 00 With each passing month, Chad spent more and more time out of the house, renovating the rental properties. And some nights, tenants would call with emergencies.
33:34 Speaker 04 There would be nights where he would say, oh, I gotta go. There's a sewage leak. I have to go really quick and fix the sewage leak.
33:41 Speaker 00 Despite their rocky few years, she still trusted him. She had to.
33:47 Speaker 04 You can't have a marriage without trust. It doesn't work.
33:52 Speaker 04 You know, if one of the partners say, I'm gonna go do this outside the home, you have to trust that they're actually doing what they're saying they're doing. Like, if I say I'm gonna go shopping, he has to trust that I'm actually shopping. If he says I'm gonna go to, you know, fix the sewage system in his apartments, I have to trust that he's actually doing that. Otherwise, there's no relationship.
34:16 Speaker 00 Plus, the rental properties added financial security to their lives. She believed that, at the end of the day, he was working so hard in order to provide for the family. She often overheard him practicing conversations he needed to have for work.
34:32 Speaker 04 He had this weird quirk where if he was gonna have a conversation with somebody, he would write down the conversation that he was going to have and then memorize it. And then I would often see him, like, pacing and doing weird things with his hands and with his mouth. I think he was, like, rehearsing in his mind how the conversation would go and what he would say in response to their responses.
34:54 Speaker 00 There was one big meeting in particular Chad was preparing for. It was with an older couple that went to their church, a couple that taught Sunday School. They had known Chad for nearly his whole life. And they were wealthy. Chad set up a meeting with them to pitch his financial advising services.
35:13 Speaker 04 He was trying really hard to get them to be one of his clients.
35:17 Speaker 00 In the end, they decided not to use him. He was dejected. He'd been counting on their business. After that meeting didn't go as planned, he started talking about selling his financial advising business and instead getting into the storage industry.
35:34 Speaker 04 There's a little plot of land that would be perfect for storage units. So he had said, you know, we're going to buy this land over here and I'm going to start building storage units. And so we need to set up this LLC.
35:48 Speaker 00 He wanted Danielle to sign paperwork to help set up the business.
35:52 Speaker 04 If we have you as the president, then it's better for taxes because you're a woman.
35:57 Speaker 00 He asked her to go to the bank with him that day to get it set up. And there, out in public, she noticed that her husband looked disheveled.
36:07 Speaker 04 He was not bathed. He didn't shave. I was surprised that he went to the bank in the state that he was in. I just thought, well, he must be so tired. He's trying to sell his financial business. And he's trying to get these storage units ready. And he's, you know, he's not getting much sleep. So he just must be really stressed out.
36:30 Speaker 00 Later that day, one of Danielle's kids came to her. He said that last night he'd seen something strange in the driveway of their house.
36:38 Speaker 04 One of my children said that he got up and saw his dad dressed all in black. And he said that it seemed like Chad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed.
36:51 Speaker 00 This was alarming because another one of her kids had confessed something bizarre.
36:57 Speaker 04 The night before that, he had actually told my oldest child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him.
37:12 Speaker 04 And she was like, okay, Dad.
37:17 Speaker 00 Immediately, she tried to get in touch with Chad, but he wasn't answering his phone. After they went to the bank, he'd left the house to work on a rental property.
37:27 Speaker 04 There were several rental places that he owned, that he was either renovating or was currently renting. I texted him, asking if he could call me as soon as possible. I was starting to feel like, okay, what's going on? I hope he's okay. I hope he's not in an accident. He called shortly after and explained that he had accidentally fallen asleep at the rental and that he was still feeling a little disoriented, but reassured me that he was fine.
37:56 Speaker 00 If it sounds like Danielle is reading off of a piece of paper, it's because she is. She's reading from a written statement documenting this day.
38:06 Speaker 04 Nothing is as it seems. Absolutely nothing. This is my living nightmare and what I can remember that has happened in the last few days.
38:17 Speaker 04 At 4:22 PM, I texted him, asking if he was okay. No response. I texted again at 5:06 PM, and his response was, "Yep, you?"
38:28 Speaker 04 I told him I was just wondering what happened, and he texted, "What do you mean?" And then around 5:30, he called and said he was sorry he didn't see my text and that he must have been in the basement and hadn't gone in right away.
38:42 Speaker 00 That night, Chad didn't come home for dinner. At the time, she assumed he'd fallen asleep at the rental property again, but she couldn't leave her six small children to go check on him. So around 11 PM, after putting the kids to bed, she went to sleep herself.
38:59 Speaker 04 Next thing I heard was banging and breaking glass, and then yelling, "State police, state police, hands in the air." I came out of my bedroom with no glasses on, hands in the air, wondering if they were actually police because I can't see very far. I can only see about a foot in front of me without it being blurry. In my mind, I was thinking, well, either I'm being robbed and they're posing as state police or something's happening and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gun pointed at me.
39:32 Speaker 00 It was becoming very clear very quickly. This was actually the state police and the FBI. There wasn't a mistake. They were looking for Chad and they were incredibly serious.
39:47 Speaker 04 They asked if anyone else was in the house and I said, yes, just me and the kids, assuming Chad was at the rental. My whole mouth got super dry. I could not hardly even talk. I asked them if I could go back into the bedroom to get some water. I kept water by my bed and they're like, no, you can't go anywhere. You have to stay right here. I wasn't even allowed to wake up my kids. They actually went and woke up all of my kids.
40:13 Speaker 04 They were asking if there was hiding places in the house and it threw me for a loop because I'm like, I mean, my kids hide in little places when they play hide and seek?
40:23 Speaker 00 Then the police asked her about the elderly couple that went to their church, the ones Chad wanted as clients.
40:32 Speaker 04 Why are you asking me questions about them and where is my husband?
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41:48 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
42:03 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
42:14 Speaker 00 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
42:19 Speaker 02 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a
42:22 Speaker 00 point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.
42:48 Speaker 00 Danielle Oliver Chauvet woke up in the middle of the night on February 8th, 2017, to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents.
42:57 Speaker 04 Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gun pointed at me. So I think at that point, they were suspecting me. They thought I was involved.
43:08 Speaker 00 But a suspect in what? Danielle would soon find out. Chad Skipper, her husband of nearly 20 years and the father of their six children, hadn't come home that night. He said he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking if she had any hiding places in the house. And most confusing of all, the police were asking about an elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.
43:37 Speaker 04 Why are you asking me questions about them? And where is my husband?
43:41 Speaker 00 The police wouldn't give her any information about what was happening or why they were at her house. But it was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The police took her in and began a long interrogation.
43:54 Speaker 04 I went into the interrogation room and they started asking me questions. They asked me about this couple and I was thinking, that's a weird question out of the blue. Why would you ask me specifically about these people? Yeah, we know them for sure. We've known them for a long time.
44:11 Speaker 00 They were also asking questions about the family's finances, questions Danielle just didn't have the answers to.
44:17 Speaker 04 I was shaking. I was just so confused, like, why are you asking this? All I was worried about was his safety, like if he was still alive. It didn't even dawn on me that it could be what it was.
44:33 Speaker 00 After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She went to a friend's house where her kids were waiting for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with Chad without any reply. Then, first thing the next morning, her phone rang. It was Chad's father.
44:50 Speaker 04 He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And I said, no, do you? I said, I don't know anything. If you know anything, just tell me what's going on because I need to know what's wrong with my husband and where he is. And his dad just said, there was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped. And the rumor is also that Chad did it. My brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what? No, that's impossible. This is Chad we're talking about. That rumor's wrong. And I was thinking, there's just no way that it's actually my husband.
45:34 Speaker 04 I know my husband would never do anything like this. That's not who he is.
45:42 Speaker 00 Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been missing for three days. We're not saying their names because Danielle wants to respect their privacy. Before this, they were friends, and Danielle believes that their story is their family's to tell, just like her story is hers to tell. So for this episode, she's going to call them...
46:03 Speaker 04 His victims. I had known them since I had met Chad. He had known them since the time he was born because they were part of his church. They were our Sunday school teachers. We would often go over to their house, and sometimes we would have like a pool party. Sometimes it would be a Bible study. So we knew them really well. They were amazing people.
46:24 Speaker 00 The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check for $350,000 from her own savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman slipped her a note. She was being held for ransom. Her captor was waiting down the block with her husband in the trunk. If she didn't return to the car with the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband. She needed to walk out of that bank, check in hand. So they gave it to her and let her go. And as soon as she walked out of the door, the teller called the police. That call initiated a statewide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor.
47:09 Speaker 00 Immediately, it became the top story on the local news. It all started just before 5:00 PM on Wednesday, when the sheriff's office received a call from First Trust and Savings Bank in Albany. Investigators are working with the FBI, state police, and local agencies. It's a case, they say, that will shock this community. The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately trying to get in touch with her husband. She didn't want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his picture on the news.
47:51 Speaker 04 My whole world got flipped upside down at that moment when I saw his picture and the police update and what he had done. Developing story in Whiteside County.
48:05 Speaker 00 Investigators say they've never seen anything quite like it. A man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie, Illinois, is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.
48:16 Speaker 03 Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay him $350,000.
48:23 Speaker 04 At that point, all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's where I just broke down and started crying my eyes out and
48:32 Speaker 04 fell to the floor and was just
48:37 Speaker 04 didn't know what to do.
48:39 Speaker 00 In that moment, she understood why the police woke her up in the middle of the night.
48:44 Speaker 04 When the police knocked down my door asking if I had any hiding areas in the house, I'm sure they were looking for the people that he abducted.
48:54 Speaker 04 They were wanting to know if there was a place in that house where they could be hidden. As far as they know, I know where the kidnapped victims are.
49:06 Speaker 04 Because I'm his wife. I mean, most people would assume that the wife would know. But I had no clue.
49:13 Speaker 00 Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full extent of her husband's horrifying crimes. This is what she learned.
49:24 Speaker 04 A couple of days before the police knocked down my door, he must have gone to their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for, to break into their home. He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer and that he was all dressed in black. And I also heard that he broke into their home and sat in their kitchen for several hours before going upstairs to wake them.
49:56 Speaker 00 He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom where the elderly couple was sleeping.
50:06 Speaker 04 He tased the guy and threatened his wife.
50:12 Speaker 04 And then said, "Where is your God now?" And took them from their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to get their clothes on. And I know that he had told them that it wasn't just him. Like, he threatened them that it was like a group of people who were doing this.
50:32 Speaker 00 After the police showed up at the bank, they called in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found the couple's names and address. When they searched their home, they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser, and small drops of blood in the bedroom. But the house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact, by the time the police were alerted, no one had heard from the couple in three days.
51:01 Speaker 04 He had her call around and tell a false story about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he even took their car to the airport.
51:10 Speaker 00 While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Danielle was at home, taking care of their kids, going about her business just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom. But where was Chad? And where was he holding the couple? Danielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted, they knew time was of the essence. They relied on the FBI and state police to use all resources possible to find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.
51:53 Speaker 00 They were running out of time. With each passing hour, the search grew increasingly urgent. Then, the FBI got a tip about a car matching the description of the one seen leaving the bank with the kidnapped victims, a silver 1990 Chevy Caprice. But Danielle didn't know anything about a Chevy Caprice. So maybe, they had the wrong guy. The police tracked the car down. But when they went to pull it over, the driver sped up. It was all over the local news. Around 4:30 a.m., the car crashed here outside Port Byron. We tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and they took off at a high rate of speed.
52:37 Speaker 00 The police approached the crashed vehicle and found that the driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping. Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad, alive in the trunk of his car, but no one else was with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painter's tarps, a saw, duct tape, and a shovel.
53:08 Speaker 00 Now that Chad was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple. There were still a few places the police hadn't searched: Chad's rental properties. After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where he said the couple was being held.
53:26 Speaker 04 When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented. Like, I thought people were in the house renting it from us.
53:34 Speaker 00 When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone. The surfaces were covered in sawdust and power tools. The doors were taken off their hinges. And there was a ladder in the middle of the living room. But it also looked like someone had been squatting there.
53:50 Speaker 00 There was trash everywhere, plates of half-eaten food, electronic wires and cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but no one seemed to be in the house. Then they double-checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look at a computer monitor laying on the floor.
54:09 Speaker 00 It appeared to show a surveillance feed, six live feed images of a windowless room where two figures were lying on a mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them were hooks and shackles.
54:27 Speaker 00 There was a secret room somewhere in this house, and Chad's victims were in there.
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55:43 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table.
56:28 Speaker 00 Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.
56:42 Speaker 00 The night of Chad's arrest, police Police began searching one of his rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon where he was holding two people captive. From what they could see on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress. It wasn't clear if they were alive. But then, one of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a locked steel hatch.
57:15 Speaker 04 And the only entry and exit to that dungeon room was through a steel trap door with a lock on the outside, in a closet hidden under a dresser or something. He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You would only know it was there if you knew it was there.
57:35 Speaker 00 Police used bolt cutters to open the door. They found an eight-foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously, still alive. They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had people watching their kids and grandkids. So if they tried to escape or get help, he would kill them.
58:02 Speaker 04 They were in that dungeon for a couple of days.
58:08 Speaker 04 I can't even imagine thinking that you're gonna die, thinking that your children are gonna die, hooked up on this thing, your hands up in the air for so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand, and having their kids and grandkids threatened.
58:27 Speaker 00 Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.
58:31 Speaker 04 I mean, what's he gonna do? Go, "Oh, I'm gonna let you go now. Forgive me. Everything's fine." How else could it end?
58:40 Speaker 00 And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed like he meant it. This what-if still haunts Danielle.
58:50 Speaker 00 Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, and unlawful restraint. His bail was set at $1 million.
59:00 Speaker 00 Overnight, Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband of nearly two decades and the father of her children was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing that shock, she didn't understand why. Was it all for the money?
59:17 Speaker 04 I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm a penny pincher. So I don't know where all the money was going and I don't know why he needed that.
59:26 Speaker 00 To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There, she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he targeted the people he did.
59:39 Speaker 04 He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew how much they had in the bank. Because he had asked them to be clients of his or his fake financial business.
59:54 Speaker 00 His fake financial business. She also found out that he was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner. So what did he do for a living? From what she gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested, his own parents sued him for stealing over $400,000 while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor. But not only did he steal from his own parents, he also stole from his grandmother.
1:00:34 Speaker 04 It was around that same amount, something like 300,000. Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from his victims in order to repay the money that he had stolen from his grandma.
1:00:48 Speaker 00 He never confessed to this. But it added up for Danielle. What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.
1:00:56 Speaker 04 I found the plans and bills from it in his office.
1:01:00 Speaker 00 Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon piece by piece over the past two years.
1:01:07 Speaker 04 I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had to have been thousands upon thousands. And I don't think the person who did it ever got paid, honestly.
1:01:17 Speaker 00 The shocking fact that he built a dungeon to hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines for months. In a news aid exclusive tonight, investigative reporter Chris Minor shows us a photo of that actual room where it's believed the couple was held against their will.
1:01:36 Speaker 00 Danielle never slept another night in the big house that she and Chad had shared with their kids.
1:01:42 Speaker 04 I did not want the kids to be back in the house knowing that he had done that. Knowing that he was capable of kidnapping people that he'd known for his whole life. I didn't want them back into that house. And I didn't want to live in that house anymore.
1:02:00 Speaker 00 She and her kids moved into her parents' home while she got her bearings. For the first few months after Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already collected the evidence they needed, and she was left to clean up the rest.
1:02:18 Speaker 04 Every day that we went into his office, there was another thing. Oh, he lied about this. Next day, oh, he lied about that, too.
1:02:26 Speaker 04 I remember at one point, we were both looking at each other on our way to the house, thinking, I wonder what else we're going to find in his office today? What else could there be?
1:02:37 Speaker 00 There was insurance fraud.
1:02:40 Speaker 04 One of the things we found in his office was that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding ring, he lied about.
1:02:53 Speaker 00 There was credit card fraud.
1:02:55 Speaker 04 He had fraudently signed credit cards in his dad's name. He'd gotten credit cards in my name. He had forged my name.
1:03:04 Speaker 00 She also found lies about herself. Stories she'd never heard before.
1:03:11 Speaker 04 We found several papers that had conversations written down on them that had lies about me as far as like I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota or somewhere. Just, you know, lies like that in order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people that he was talking to. There were just like conversations written down on a piece of paper. Some of them were to credit card companies because it was with credit card stuff. Some of it was to different potential clients that he was going to have.
1:03:47 Speaker 00 And some things she discovered were just suspicious.
1:03:52 Speaker 04 Hiking boots that he never wore. A wet suit that was still wet and had a little bit of dirt on the cuff. And, you know, it's like, he didn't ever go scuba diving. So why does he have a wet suit? And where would he have used the wet suit? In the Mississippi River? You know? Just strange things that we never found an answer to.
1:04:19 Speaker 00 One of the most haunting things she found in his office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone in their family. Policies she never knew existed.
1:04:31 Speaker 04 He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids. I think mine was a million. And I think my kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes with your mind really hard. I never felt like I was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives. It was only after his arrest and when we started going through the stuff in his office that I was like, whoa. If I had confronted him about any of this stuff, if I had known about it, I don't think I would be here.
1:05:01 Speaker 00 Danielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.
1:05:09 Speaker 04 One of the things that the police told me is that in all of their cases, they said they have never come across a case that was so cut and dried with the amount of evidence for this guy. I was like, wow. And he thought he was so smart.
1:05:24 Speaker 00 She sent him one letter. In jail, where she said she would be praying for him, but needed to cut off communication. After that, she filed for divorce. But letters from Chad never stopped coming. Every few weeks, there'd be that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.
1:05:43 Speaker 04 Every time I got a letter from him, my whole body would just shake. I would get sweaty, palms, hard to breathe. But as soon as I saw that envelope, I'm like, not another one.
1:05:54 Speaker 00 She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming. But one day, she got a letter that was different from the others.
1:06:03 Speaker 04 On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed as him. It was addressed as Eloisa May. And that threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a letter from that jail. But Eloisa May is kind of weird. I don't know an Eloisa May. And there was no, like, return address. It was just the name. And so when I opened it, and it wasn't in his writing either, I was thinking, okay, that's weird, too. There's something off. The whole letter is written in this weird, southern accent. I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.
1:06:38 Speaker 00 This is how the letter began.
1:06:41 Speaker 04 Howdy there, missy. My name is Eloisa May. You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can remedy that with this here letter.
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1:08:00 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
1:08:15 Speaker 02 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
1:08:25 Speaker 00 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
1:08:59 Speaker 00 While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild her life. That's when she began to get strange letters in the mail. The return address just said the name Eloisa May. This is what the letters were about.
1:09:13 Speaker 04 It's this fake character who supposedly lives, I think, in Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke, and so now she's in the hospital. And she came across my story, and she starts telling me how her husband was an alcoholic. And at one point, he physically abused her, and so she left him and went to live with his parents.
1:09:41 Speaker 00 Finally, Chad, or Eloiza May, got to the point.
1:09:46 Speaker 04 She ended up deciding to get a divorce because, you know, she didn't want to deal with his abusive, addictive issues. He ended up killing himself. And because of her decision to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having issues in their lives, and they take the blame for him dying.
1:10:06 Speaker 04 I felt like it was a threat. If you divorce me, I'm going to kill myself and your kids are going to feel like it was their fault. That's the feeling I got from the letter.
1:10:17 Speaker 00 The letters were four, five, six pages long, written in a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all. She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting, or got someone in the jail to write it for him while he dictated. Either way, the character Chad was putting on was so transparently manipulative.
1:10:38 Speaker 04 He didn't directly say, "How can you divorce me?" But through the character of Eloiza May, was basically saying that.
1:10:45 Speaker 00 She suspects that he made the character Southern to try to pull on Danielle's heartstrings, because her grandmother was from the South.
1:10:54 Speaker 04 A little bit later, he goes, "I feel the good Lord telling me to do something, and I got a little eager, Danielle, sugar. And may I declare, darlin', that is one of the most beautiful and unique names I've ever heard. Something we have in common, sweetie."
1:11:10 Speaker 00 Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to try and make Danielle question her decisions.
1:11:17 Speaker 04 He physically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible passages about God hates divorce, and gives me examples of different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a divorce, but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.
1:11:32 Speaker 00 The Eloiza May letters almost amused her, but they also felt like an insult. Did he really think she would fall for this?
1:11:40 Speaker 04 I think he had a very, very low opinion of me, or still does. I struggled with that, with my marriage too, because he treated me like a child.
1:11:56 Speaker 00 She kept the Eloise and May letters to remind herself of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty. But before he faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their divorce trial.
1:12:12 Speaker 04 He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings. He was pro se. And so he questioned me on the stand, which was really, really nerve wracking.
1:12:26 Speaker 00 Danielle was awarded full custody. And shortly after, she attended her ex-husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victims' statements.
1:12:35 Speaker 04 There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. They were amazing people.
1:12:42 Speaker 00 The judge was stunned by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture the victims endured.
1:12:50 Speaker 04 From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he wanted people to know, this is not acceptable in society. Like, it's heinous. You can't just do that type of a crime and get away with it.
1:13:07 Speaker 00 The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible. Today Chad Skipper and a packed courtroom listened as he awaited his jail sentence. 60 years, the rest of his life in prison.
1:13:18 Speaker 04 I was thinking he was only going to get 20 years. And so when it was 60, I was surprised.
1:13:26 Speaker 00 Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again. She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.
1:13:41 Speaker 04 I have a big, big problem with some of the ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness. That every marriage, 100% of marriages can be resolved. And I was like, that is very, very untrue and very, very dangerous to say. If there's an abuse happening, that's not true.
1:14:11 Speaker 00 Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Erie, Illinois. Chad's victims still live there, too. And Danielle has seen them around town.
1:14:21 Speaker 04 I have seen them, yeah. I've seen them, seen their kids. You know, I smile at them when they see me. I don't know if they recognize me or not. I don't know if they see me when I see them. I really don't know.
1:14:35 Speaker 00 She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.
1:14:42 Speaker 04 I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also the police even said something about, "Don't reach out." And so I just kind of like took a step back. I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me. If they feel like I was part of it or if they know that I had no idea what was going on. One of the reasons why I haven't reached out is because I really don't want to cause them more pain.
1:15:13 Speaker 00 Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle was in the dark about her husband's double life.
1:15:20 Speaker 04 When you first was arrested, there were some posts on Facebook about it. People were saying, "Oh, she knew," and all that kind of stuff.
1:15:27 Speaker 00 Around town, she's noticed that people don't smile and wave as much as they used to.
1:15:33 Speaker 04 I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything. It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a small town, sometimes you get looks, just kind of a weird side look, like, "I know who you are. Don't look at me. Don't interact with me."
1:15:50 Speaker 00 She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing who her husband actually was and what he was really doing all those nights he claimed to be in the basement working.
1:16:01 Speaker 04 I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of himself to me. All I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw. He was able to do everything else completely separate. I can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.
1:16:23 Speaker 00 As part of her healing process, she's learned about people like Chad and the tactics they use. Tactics that felt very familiar.
1:16:33 Speaker 04 When I was doing my studies of narcissistic behavior, one of the things that really spoke to me was a thing called word salad. And I totally was like, yep, that's exactly what it was. Just words that twist. Anything that I said would twist it around and jumbled it up like a salad and then shoot it back at me. And my mind would just be like, I don't even know what's going on.
1:16:55 Speaker 00 These kinds of things helped her understand how he had subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease the self-blame or the sense that she couldn't trust anyone around her or even herself.
1:17:08 Speaker 04 If my husband can pull the wool over my eyes so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person, does that mean that this amazing person can also pull the wool over my eyes? Like, what are they actually behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are presenting to me as, you know, a loving brother, a loving friend? But then, when we are not in each other's presence, are they somebody else? Like, okay, this pastor seems like he is everything that a pastor should be. But now that I've been through what I've been through, is he who he says he is? Or is this just his presentation of who he says he is?
1:17:54 Speaker 00 For Danielle, trusting the wrong person, building a life with them, left her all alone and a single parent.
1:18:01 Speaker 04 All the weight of the responsibility is now mine.
1:18:06 Speaker 04 Because I know I had six kids and I had to support them now.
1:18:11 Speaker 00 She found work as an online English tutor and she built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.
1:18:19 Speaker 04 My business is called Knitting Nicely, but the nicely is spelled with a K in.
1:18:25 Speaker 04 I'm really proud that I have a business that I absolutely love and enjoy.
1:18:30 Speaker 00 After her divorce, she decided that she was done with romantic relationships.
1:18:36 Speaker 04 My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church or shopping, holding hands, or I would see a post about somebody celebrating an anniversary, it would kind of turn my stomach. It just felt ew to me because of what I went through. You know, having trust in someone and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't want to go through what I went through again. I didn't want to put my kids through that again. So for me, I was like, okay, I am going to do this single mom thing and we're going to make it. But then.
1:19:15 Speaker 00 But then she saw a post on Facebook from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed to her 30 years ago. They'd since drifted apart and hadn't talked in nearly a decade. But in his post, she saw that his fiance had recently passed away. So she reached out to lend support.
1:19:34 Speaker 04 We were just like being there for each other. You know, I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him come out of the hole that I felt like he was about to go into. Just to have somebody to talk to, to be able to laugh with. But then the conversations got longer and then we ended up staying up all night talking over Messenger.
1:19:57 Speaker 04 And my daughter was starting to say, who is this that you're talking to all this time? And I think she knew before I knew that I was starting to fall in love again.
1:20:06 Speaker 00 Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call where they would see each other for the first time in years.
1:20:13 Speaker 04 And as soon as I saw his smiling face, I knew that was, I was going to pursue that relationship for sure. The trust issue was not even an issue in the situation. Because I had known him from when I was a teenager, there wasn't that, is he really who he says he is? Question.
1:20:36 Speaker 00 So they started dating again.
1:20:39 Speaker 04 Both of us were like, this is weird. How could this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy 2.0.
1:20:47 Speaker 00 After a few months of dating again, they got married, surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.
1:20:54 Speaker 04 So we had Thanksgiving dinner and then between Thanksgiving dinner and dessert is when the wedding happened.
1:21:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, it was really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way.
1:21:04 Speaker 00 We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to tell your story?
1:21:10 Speaker 04 Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge for people who've gone through stuff like that. That was one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that people have actually survived it and are happy again. That was really huge.
1:21:29 Speaker 04 My main reason for wanting to tell my story is to give people hope that even though you may feel like your world is upside down and it can never become upside up again, there is a light at the tunnel. Maybe really tiny and small, might be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.
1:21:57 Speaker 00 If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at [email protected] . That's [email protected] . We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique LaBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman.
1:22:40 Speaker 00 Associate producers are Kristen Malkury and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Additional editing support from Nigo Aruca. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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1:24:07 Speaker 00 She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribes Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.
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