Pod Insights Betrayal Crystal | Featured on ABC's Betrayal: Secrets and Lies About this episode You can now watch Crystal’s story on TV! Check out Betrayal: Secrets and Lies. Episodes air every Sunday at 10pm EST/9pm CST on ABC.
CONTENT WARNING: This episode discusses domestic violence and sexual assault.
Crystal Harris escaped the man who terrorized her, and in the process, challenged the institutions that failed her.
If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts.
If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, you are not alone. RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline offers free, confidential, 24/7 support in English and en Español. Call (800) 656-HOPE (4673) or Text HOPE to 64673.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript 10,052 words · 17 speakers
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0:32 Speaker 02 Hey folks, it's Matt Altmaix.
0:33 Speaker 03 And Joel Larsgaard from the How To Money Podcast.
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2:36 Speaker 00 Hi, it's Andrea and we are re-releasing some of our past weekly episodes. And there's a good reason why. For the last year, I have been working with ABC on turning some of your favorite episodes of Betrayal Weekly into a TV show. The show is called Betrayal: Secrets and Lies, and it airs every Sunday at 10:00 PM on ABC. This week, we are re-releasing Crystal Harris's story. Working on Crystal's story was both challenging and incredibly inspiring. At the time, our team was deep in season five of Saskia's story. So we were already sitting with heavy material and Crystal's story lives in that same space. To me, she is fearless, even though she lived in fear for a very long time.
3:21 Speaker 00 What her story really represents is something we talk about a lot at Betrayal, what it means to prioritize your pain over your abuser's potential. Even when there's evidence, even when you have all the documentation, your credibility can still be questioned. And when you come up against systems like the criminal justice system or civil court that don't protect you the way they should, you don't have to accept that as the end of the story. And Crystal didn't. She used her voice, she pushed back, and she worked to change the system itself. That's the power of testimony, of speaking, and of just doing the damn thing. If you have not heard this story, I won't give any more away.
4:06 Speaker 00 Hearing Crystal's story is fascinating, but seeing it unfold is a whole new experience. So please check out Betrayal: Secrets and Lies on ABC and Hulu to see Crystal and where her story takes place. Enjoy the episode. Hi, everyone. It's Andrea Gunning. Before we start this episode, I want to let you know that we will be talking explicitly about the realities of domestic violence and sexual assault. So please be mindful with this episode.
4:42 Speaker 07 I came up with my plan, which was I'm gonna buy a gun. That's my way out. I still remember walking into this gun store, thinking that I cannot believe this is my life. I can't believe this is my life.
5:18 Speaker 00 I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.
5:28 Speaker 07 I have a thick skin. You're not going to be able to offend me. I don't ever give off a vibe of it's okay to mess with me.
5:38 Speaker 00 That's Crystal Harris. Her story is one of an intimate and personal betrayal, but it's also a story of an institutional one. Crystal grew up in the 70s in Southern California.
5:50 Speaker 07 Which, at the time, was all orange groves. We lived out in the middle of nowhere, and my parents were hippies.
5:58 Speaker 00 From an early age, Crystal was confident.
6:01 Speaker 07 I have pictured myself as an adult since I was little. I mean, five years old. And the vision that always came to me was a, quote, "businesswoman." You know, I saw myself with a briefcase and high heels.
6:19 Speaker 00 She's always been the kind of person who visualizes what she wants and makes it happen.
6:25 Speaker 07 I had my life all planned out. Just as I saw myself as a businesswoman, I also saw myself as a wife and mother. My plan was to graduate at 21. Hopefully, I would have met my husband at some point in college, and we would get married around 23, after I started my career. And then I wanted to have kids when I was 30. That was my plan.
6:52 Speaker 00 Crystal's parents divorced when she was eight and she moved in with her dad.
6:57 Speaker 07 I saw my mom after the divorce. She didn't really have a profession. She had married my dad when she was 18 and she never went to school. And so she had to like scramble a little bit. And it made me realize I would never want to be left in that position where I had to rely on someone else for my financial security. So I entered my high school and college years thinking I've got to have a skill. I've got to know how to do something.
7:31 Speaker 00 It was a formative lesson for Crystal.
7:34 Speaker 07 I was 16 years old and I said, I'm going to be a financial advisor. And so, once I graduated from high school, I got accepted to college and chose finance as my major and was off from there.
7:48 Speaker 00 During her last summer of college, Crystal was at home in Southern California, working as a server at a restaurant. One day, a new guy showed up at work.
7:59 Speaker 07 There was this buzz in the restaurant one day. Everyone kept going, oh, my gosh, Sean is back. Sean is here. Have you seen Sean? And I was like, who's Sean? I finally see him over at the bar and I was just blown over. I thought he was gorgeous. He was so good looking. He was strong, tan and blonde and muscular.
8:25 Speaker 00 Sean quickly became one of her favorite coworkers.
8:28 Speaker 07 I was a waitress. He was a busboy. And like if I was just standing at a table with a cup or a plate in my hand, he'd come up and take it from me. He would never let me walk all the way to the dishwasher.
8:41 Speaker 00 He was her type and he caught her attention. An all-American boy and a former college athlete.
8:48 Speaker 07 He attended a private college and he was on their baseball team. He was the pitcher and I was impressed. And then I learned that he was a math major and I was impressed by that too, because I thought, well, you can't fudge it on being a math major.
9:07 Speaker 07 I respected it.
9:09 Speaker 00 Crystal and Sean spent the whole summer flirting.
9:12 Speaker 07 One night, we all decided to go out after work. We had been dancing all night and we've been hanging out with our other friends from work. And we were kind of bar hopping and there's a little bench outside and we were sitting on it and he just kissed me.
9:29 Speaker 07 That led into us having this really cute, fun, almost magical relationship that first year.
9:38 Speaker 00 Crystal still had a year of college left. She drove the hour home every weekend to spend time with Sean.
9:45 Speaker 07 I would race down after school on Friday and it would just be like, oh my God, I missed you. It felt like every weekend was a vacation.
9:55 Speaker 00 Every time she was around Sean.
9:58 Speaker 07 I was totally smitten. He was different. I had never dated anybody that I thought was smarter than me, but I thought he was smarter than me.
10:10 Speaker 00 After she graduated from college, Crystal turned her attention to her next goal, getting a job. She'd gotten her degree in finance and she wanted to be a financial advisor.
10:22 Speaker 07 I really worked hard at getting my foot in the door somewhere. I interviewed everywhere, all the major firms on Wall Street.
10:32 Speaker 00 Then she found a firm who gave her a chance, but she would have to work for it.
10:37 Speaker 07 They said, if you can open 25 accounts and bring in $500,000 in assets, then we'll put you into our actual training program. And I said, okay, fair enough. I worked my ass off and I was able to get that done within four months. And so I got hired.
10:57 Speaker 00 The firm had a branch in her and Sean's town, but before she started working there, they sent her to New York City for a training program.
11:07 Speaker 00 Shawn and Crystal had been dating for two years, and Shawn visited her in New York when he could.
11:13 Speaker 07 We would do New York for the weekend as tourists. At some point, we were up at the top of the Statue of Liberty, like in the Crown, and that's where he proposed to me. I quickly said yes, and I can remember saying, "We can get married when?" Like, "Next week?" Or, "A year?" He said, "Whatever you want."
11:37 Speaker 00 She planned their wedding in six months. Everything was falling into place.
11:42 Speaker 07 I felt totally sure. I love him, he loves me. We're starting life together, and I was really in a happy place in my life.
11:52 Speaker 00 Her wedding day was picture perfect.
11:55 Speaker 07 It was lovely, beautiful. I was happy to be married, but it just, it felt like, "Of course I'm getting married, like, this is what I do. It's my plan. This is a day that's supposed to come, it's here, let's do it."
12:10 Speaker 00 Next on the list...
12:12 Speaker 07 We got married in January, and by that June, we purchased our first condo. It started us, like, building our life.
12:22 Speaker 00 Shawn's dad owned a used car dealership in town, and he got a job working there. But Shawn's career would be temporary. Early on, the couple made an agreement. When they were ready to start a family, Crystal would be the breadwinner, and Shawn would stay at home with the kids.
12:38 Speaker 07 Neither of us believed in daycare, so he had always said he'd be happy to stay home with them. And I just thought to myself, "Wow, great. That lets me have my career, but I could still have kids."
12:53 Speaker 00 Knowing Shawn would be a stay-at-home dad when the time came allowed Crystal to focus on building her career.
13:02 Speaker 07 The stock market opens at 6:30 a.m. West Coast time. It was my job to manage people's portfolios, to figure out what a client needed, what their goals were, what their risk tolerance was, and invest appropriately. You either make it or you don't. And so I always liked that aspect, that the sky was the limit.
13:26 Speaker 00 Her husband supported her career wholeheartedly.
13:31 Speaker 07 Shawn, literally from the time we first met, he seemed so proud to be with me. He just loved that I was ambitious and that I knew where I was going. I'd close some new account and I'd come home and he would be just as happy as I was. We would totally celebrate together.
13:56 Speaker 00 They were a regular couple in their twenties, spending weekends with friends. They even joined a rec softball team together, which was especially fun because Shawn could show off his college baseball skills.
14:10 Speaker 07 We played every Wednesday night and then we would always go for pizza and beer after. It gave me a chance to watch him be amazing because he really was athletically amazing. He could run faster than any other man. He could hit the ball further. I was like, wow.
14:30 Speaker 07 I know he loved me and I loved him very much.
14:35 Speaker 07 That was the base of everything.
14:38 Speaker 00 At home, he was affectionate, doting, and for a while, things were really great. Living together, she began to notice they had two different approaches to conflict.
14:53 Speaker 07 I'm the type of person, if I'm mad at you, I will tell you right now. But one minute later, I'm fine. It's out. It's over. But Sean would do things where, let's say he got off work at six. He wouldn't come home until like nine or 10 or whatever. And he finally would just like stroll through the door and I'd go, what the hell? Why are you late? And he would be like, well, do you remember last Wednesday when you said such as such to me? Well, I've been really mad about that.
15:26 Speaker 00 Crystal had never seen someone hold on to resentment the way that Sean did.
15:33 Speaker 00 Two years into the marriage, one of their cars broke down. So for a week, Crystal and Sean had to share a car. They both needed it to get to work. Crystal started her job at 6:30 in the morning. She would take a break around 8:30 to pick Sean up and take him to his job at the dealership. Within just a few days, the car became a source of tension.
15:57 Speaker 07 Every day, he'd say, come pick me up, let's say 8:45. And I would get there and he would still be in bed. Or still in the shower, whatever it was, he was nowhere near ready every day. And I had had it. I was pissed. I didn't like how he was just so dismissive of my time.
16:20 Speaker 00 But one day, the fight over the car became something different.
16:28 Speaker 07 We got in a big fight over it.
16:33 Speaker 07 Eventually, we get in the car and I'm driving him to work. And we're still fighting. He's in the passenger seat.
16:43 Speaker 07 Next thing I know, he took his left hand. It was in a fist and just sort of barked me in my eye on my cheek.
16:56 Speaker 07 And I just was reeling.
17:03 Speaker 07 I pulled the car over and I'm trying to get my head together, trying to figure out what just happened. I had never been hit before by a man in my life.
17:15 Speaker 07 I just remember thinking, get him to work and then you're on your own. You've got the car, you've got the safety of the office. Don't provoke him anymore. I just shut my mouth, not fighting anymore.
17:28 Speaker 00 She had an instinctual reaction, which was to stay calm and get him out of her car. Once she was alone, she knew what she had to do.
17:38 Speaker 07 Get back to the office, call the police, call an attorney, call my mom. This is huge and my marriage is over. That is what I did.
17:52 Speaker 07 I told everybody and I hired a divorce attorney and filed a police report. I did everything I ever said I would do if a man hit me.
18:05 Speaker 00 When Crystal got home that day.
18:08 Speaker 07 He had broken the whole sliding glass door.
18:11 Speaker 00 But Sean wasn't home. He'd been arrested for assaulting Crystal. She wanted to be far away from him.
18:18 Speaker 07 And I got a restraining order. By the end of that day, he was not allowed to come in the house.
18:25 Speaker 00 They were separated for some time. About a month or so went by. Then Crystal got a call from Sean's dad.
18:33 Speaker 07 I respected his dad very much and he was telling me how devastated Sean is and how this was such a huge wake-up call for him. He knows he did wrong. His dad kept saying, you know, you're a part of this family. We love you. Sean's already going to anger management classes. I remember thinking, that's great that they have such a thing. It was court ordered and it just seemed official.
19:07 Speaker 00 This was 1998 when court ordered anger management was still new. This was Crystal's first time learning about it and she was relieved to hear he was getting help. Despite what Sean had done, anger management sounded like it was just what he needed.
19:24 Speaker 07 I really thought that could be the key to us getting back together.
19:30 Speaker 00 After talking to his dad, she was open to hearing Sean out. She wanted his apology.
19:37 Speaker 07 I was willing to talk to him on the phone. Was trying to get a sense of if he understood how bad what he did was. He really seemed like he was sorry and he did wrong. I thought, I love him. He loves me, I love him. All he needs is a little bit of help to figure out why he did that. And we can still have our life together.
20:12 Speaker 00 But she wanted to let him know he'd messed up. And he would be held accountable for what he'd done.
20:18 Speaker 07 I slowly let him back in the house. It took two or three months. We had our divorce proceeding and everything. I dropped everything. Except what I did not drop was the actual police charge. He did it. He hit me and it was important to me that that stand. So he was prosecuted and pled guilty. And that did go on his record.
20:45 Speaker 00 And the consequences he faced were long lasting.
20:49 Speaker 07 He was on probation for three years. And I felt sufficiently satisfied that he was getting that help he needed and that we were going to be okay.
21:02 Speaker 00 That moment in the car felt like an outlier in their otherwise steady relationship.
21:07 Speaker 07 There's not like an infidelity issue. There was not even a jealousy issue. I thought that was good. We never fought about money. He was not a drinker, never took drugs, didn't smoke. And I just thought, that's a great foundation for a good marriage. And we loved each other.
21:27 Speaker 00 Over the next three years, they slowly rebuilt trust. Crystal felt grounded in her relationship with Sean.
21:34 Speaker 07 I just remember thinking, we should start thinking about having kids. And it was part of my plan anyway. So the following January of 2002, I went off the pill and we started trying to have a baby and. I got pregnant immediately.
21:51 Speaker 00 Crystal was thrilled.
21:53 Speaker 07 I couldn't wait for Sean to get home and tell him in person. Like, I'd call him immediately. And I'm like, "I am pregnant." He was happy. He was so happy.
22:02 Speaker 00 Sean and Crystal found out that they were going to have a boy. They felt really connected through her entire pregnancy.
22:09 Speaker 07 He treated me great. It was a very sweet time in our relationship.
22:14 Speaker 00 And in 2002, their son was born.
22:17 Speaker 07 Sean was there. He was crying and loving and proud of me and cheerleading and being perfect.
22:29 Speaker 00 Their son became their whole world. That's when Sean quit his job and, like the couple had planned, became a stay-at-home dad.
22:37 Speaker 07 He was home with the baby and I was on maternity leave for like four months and then I went back. I thought our plan was working out pretty well.
22:48 Speaker 00 But once he quit working, something changed in Sean.
22:53 Speaker 07 The whole thing about putting me in my place and the passive-aggressiveness and that kind of stuff seemed to pick up a lot. When Sean and I would fight, it would be bigger. Things would escalate further than they ever had. It just got to a different level after our first son was born.
23:13 Speaker 00 Like, one time, a fight got so intense that Crystal had to escape to her neighbor's house.
23:20 Speaker 07 And he followed me. He comes in there. He grabs me. He opens their fridge and takes milk out of the fridge and just pours it all over me, right in front of them.
23:31 Speaker 00 He had humiliated her in front of her friends, and he didn't care. Crystal felt exposed because, up until this point, she'd been living with Sean's escalation in private.
23:42 Speaker 07 After I took Sean back, I never told anyone in my family that my life was anything but perfect. Part of it was not even just protecting Sean, it was protecting my own ego.
23:58 Speaker 00 Crystal wouldn't dare engage Sean after an explosive fight. She'd wait for him to cool down, but sometimes that would take days or weeks.
24:07 Speaker 07 I wasn't happy, but I felt like I could tolerate a lot to keep my family together for my kids. Like, I could put up with the bullshit.
24:19 Speaker 00 Incidents like this started happening more frequently. And oftentimes, Crystal would get the police involved to help de-escalate the situation.
24:28 Speaker 07 Never did I get physically assaulted. It was just like more scary stuff. And I called the police a number of times.
24:38 Speaker 00 Things went on like this for two years. And then?
24:42 Speaker 07 Sean's dad got lung cancer and died a month before our second child was born. And it sent Sean into deep, deep depression. He was playing video games all night and then he would sleep all day, even though he's the one home with the kids.
25:06 Speaker 00 Crystal was doing everything she could to hold their family together, but it was getting harder.
25:12 Speaker 07 As time went on, I would throw out the divorce word pretty often, just because I would say, I can't live like this. My intention in doing that was to hopefully have him go, well, oh, my gosh, I don't want to lose her. I better straighten up.
25:30 Speaker 00 Crystal was still in love with Sean. She wanted to fight for their family and hope that things could be different. And she held on to that hope for five years.
25:43 Speaker 07 Shit was happening more and more and more. And finally, it gets to the point, early fall of 2007, something happened. We got in a fight.
25:54 Speaker 00 After the altercation, Sean left the house. He didn't come back for days. Crystal had no idea where he was or what would happen next. Eventually, he showed back up.
26:06 Speaker 07 And when he came back in the house, he was different. So calm. It was like he had been meditating on this whole new plan to keep me in line. He came in with intent.
26:23 Speaker 07 He tells me that he is sick of me calling the police on him.
26:30 Speaker 07 He is sick of me threatening to divorce him. And that is all ending now. That's never gonna happen again. And if I ever do it again, he's gonna kill me.
26:42 Speaker 07 He was serious, and it was terrifying. I believed him. I had never felt so helpless in my life.
26:53 Speaker 07 Usually I could come up with a plan. I had no plan. That decisive, planned-out person who's got her act together found herself in a box.
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29:02 Speaker 08 Hi, I'm Jenna Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
29:16 Speaker 09 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
29:27 Speaker 08 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
29:32 Speaker 10 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
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30:31 Speaker 00 After Shawn lost his father, he mentally started to unravel worse than before. Verbal abuse was a constant in the Harris household. When things escalated, Crystal would often call the cops. But after one particularly explosive altercation, Shawn left the house. And after a few days, Shawn came back with a clear message. He was in control. And if she challenged him, he would kill her.
30:56 Speaker 07 I remember just trying to play it cool at first, thinking maybe he's still really mad. But whenever I went to revisit it, days later, weeks later, months later, and just say, like, "You didn't mean that. You're just mad." He would double down on it and say, "No, that is what I mean."
31:17 Speaker 00 So Crystal fell in line. She avoided doing anything that could upset him.
31:23 Speaker 07 I thought, "I'm gonna be so nice to him. If I'm so nice to him, how could he be mean to me?"
31:31 Speaker 00 But then...
31:32 Speaker 07 He said, "The meaner I act to you, the nicer you act to me."
31:35 Speaker 00 Anything she did to try and regain control backfired. She needed support.
31:41 Speaker 07 For the first time in my life, I start going to church because I am out of answers. I have no plan. I feel helpless.
31:53 Speaker 00 Crystal leaned on the church and its community. There, she felt less alone.
32:00 Speaker 00 A few months later, the church was hosting an Easter egg hunt. Crystal wanted to take her sons. They were five and two at the time.
32:08 Speaker 07 I begged Shawn to go to this thing with me. It was like, "The kids will have so much fun. Do it for them." And he did not want to go. He finally, super begrudgingly, agreed to come.
32:21 Speaker 00 The whole time, Shawn was miserable. He would wander off or snap at her. What was supposed to be a fun holiday event ended up being really stressful.
32:32 Speaker 00 After the event, Crystal and Shawn were pulling out of the church parking lot. Crystal sat in the passenger seat, exhausted, with the two boys in the back.
32:41 Speaker 07 Shawn is starting to like flip off these cars and stuff. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed because these are people I go to church with. I just said, Shawn, do not flip these people off. And I had a snow cone in my hand and I was looking out the passenger window. Next thing I know, the whole thing just explodes because Shawn's hand has come across and whacked it out of my face and hit my face a little bit too.
33:11 Speaker 07 And then he takes his finger and he puts it right in the soft part of my throat, like right in the front, and he just starts pushing really hard.
33:22 Speaker 07 And I'm trying to back up, but I'm crying and I'm yelling and I'm telling him to stop. And my son is diagonal from me and my other son's behind me. And hearing all this, the oldest one, he's telling his daddy to stop. Nothing had ever happened in front of the kids before. And I just realized at that moment, how delusional I had been thinking that I could keep any of this under control.
33:53 Speaker 00 She needed to get out, but she was afraid for her life. And now she was afraid for her kids' lives. In that moment, Crystal made a decision.
34:03 Speaker 07 I'm gonna buy a gun. That's my way out. To get out of this marriage and stay alive, because I knew he would come after me.
34:12 Speaker 07 Let's say I called the police that moment, like that night. I, I truly believed that he would just be out the next day and come and kill me. I felt like I could not make any moves for safety until I had that gun. It just felt like a lifeline to me.
34:29 Speaker 00 Crystal wasted no time.
34:32 Speaker 07 I went that very same night. I still remember walking into this gun store, thinking that I cannot believe this is my life. I can't believe this is my life.
34:47 Speaker 00 In California, there's a 10-day waiting period between purchasing a gun and taking possession of it. So for Crystal, it was just a matter of getting through those next 10 days. Once she did pick up the gun, she would take her and her boys and leave Sean forever. But within a few days, Sean started threatening her again. She wanted evidence of the threats and violence against her in case she would ever need it in court. This was 2008, before iPhones were mainstream. Crystal had to be resourceful.
35:19 Speaker 07 I thought, I'm gonna need proof this is happening to me. So I decided I was gonna get a tape recorder.
35:28 Speaker 00 As a note for listeners, Crystal is about to describe an instance of graphic domestic violence. If you'd prefer not to hear this, you can fast forward three and a half minutes.
35:39 Speaker 07 And so we get to Friday, and I get home from work. And he immediately says to me, I can't stand to be around you. Either you need to leave, or I do. I still had my high heels on and my business suit and my nylons and everything. And I just was like, okay, fine.
36:01 Speaker 00 Crystal decided to give Sean some space. She went up to her bedroom. She'd stay out of his way for the rest of the night.
36:09 Speaker 07 I had just gotten in bed, and next thing I know, he comes strolling in the room and wants to have sex. And I said, no, no, we're not having sex. And he starts in on me like, well, we are married, aren't we?
36:29 Speaker 07 And then he starts saying, this is not up for negotiation. I can remember a flood of adrenaline going through my body, like, oh, my God, what is happening?
36:43 Speaker 07 I'm not able to talk my way out of it. He's 220 pounds. I was 120 pounds. I couldn't hurt him if I tried, whereas he could kill me. And as I realized I'm not getting out of this, I remembered I've got that tape recorder nearby. I couldn't physically stop this from happening, but I could at least have proof that it was happening. And so I started begging him to let me just go to the bathroom. And it took me a little bit, but he finally let me go to the bathroom. And as I came out of the bathroom, I stopped at my underwear drawer and acted like I was getting something out. And I hit that play and record button. And then I closed the drawer.
37:27 Speaker 07 And then I decided to just try and act like, maybe you didn't mean what you were saying before. I'm gonna go check on the kids. Like, I was just trying to like, get out of there. Like, put this off in some way, shape or form. And he got super mad that I didn't come back to the bed. Then I tried to leave and he jumped over the bed and grabbed me by the arm and womped me upside the head and started choking me and pulled me back to the bed.
38:02 Speaker 07 He raped her that night.
38:05 Speaker 07 When he's finished, I'm thinking he's maybe gonna feel bad. I don't know. I'm walking to the bathroom to clean up and get a hold of myself. And I'm still reeling from what happened. But I said something like, I can't believe you just fucking raped your own wife.
38:22 Speaker 07 He comes into the bathroom and he hits me again upside the head. And he's like, don't fucking lie to me. I kept saying, okay, I'm sorry. I was confused. Okay? And he's like, you're not confused. I'm gonna carve that on your head when I dump your fucking body in a ditch.
38:43 Speaker 07 And he even starts to taunt me about calling the police. He's like, are you gonna call the police? Go ahead. I wish you would. Please do. Give me a reason.
38:54 Speaker 00 Later that night, she checked the tape recorder to see if it had captured anything.
38:58 Speaker 07 The audio quality was shit, but it was there. Not only did it catch the rape on tape, it caught his death threat, but caught everything.
39:10 Speaker 07 I kept it like it was the most precious jewel ever. I didn't leave it anywhere in the house. It would go with me wherever I went.
39:22 Speaker 00 Now Crystal had proof. This was a serious escalation in violence. Wednesday was five days away, and that's when she could pick up her gun. In the meantime, she was trying to lay low and survive.
39:35 Speaker 07 I'm just gonna be super nice to him and just get to Wednesday. The next day, I take the kids to Legoland. That day was fine. I had no interaction with Sean. Sunday, I took the kids to where my mom lived and visited with her. And that was the first time I told anyone what happened. Because now I have a plan. Like now I can tell her this is what's been happening to me. But don't worry, I've got it under control. And so, of course, she didn't want me to go home to him that day. But I said, I have to. I just have to play along until I get this gun on Wednesday. And she agreed.
40:19 Speaker 00 She went back home and went to work on Monday. The day passed without much interaction between her and Sean. I want to mention here again that Crystal is going to describe a final escalation in violence. If you'd prefer not to hear this, you can fast forward a minute and a half.
40:36 Speaker 07 Tuesday, I had a long day just in the office. And when I got home at like 6:00, 6:30, he just started in on me immediately. Like, where have you been all day? What have you been doing? And he tells me that he was tracking my phone that day and that I'm a fucking liar. And he just put his hands around my neck. And he started choking me so hard and so long. And he would not let go. I kept having this thought process in my head like, is he trying to kill me? Is he gonna accidentally kill me? Either way, I'm dead. And his eyes were black.
41:20 Speaker 07 He did not care at all what I was saying. Nothing I said mattered.
41:26 Speaker 00 He raped Crystal again. This time, he was even more violent than before.
41:32 Speaker 07 He finally finishes. And I just remember getting up completely naked and just walking like a zombie almost to the bathroom and just getting in the shower and crying like the most I've ever cried in my life because I just couldn't believe all this happened to me.
41:56 Speaker 07 I also had like a complete revelation, which was, I'm not gonna die if I leave. I'm gonna die if I stay.
42:17 Speaker 00 Crystal was right to believe that her situation was life threatening. A report from the Journal of Emergency Medicine in 2008 shows that strangulation is one of the strongest predictors of future lethal violence. Victims who have been strangled by a partner are 750% more likely to be killed by that same partner. Crystal was violated, almost died. Shawn seemed unbothered. As if it was any other night, he logged on to play video games with his friends.
42:50 Speaker 07 Shawn was playing this online role playing game called World of Warcraft.
42:56 Speaker 00 He always played on the third floor, wearing headphones. So Crystal hoped he wouldn't be able to hear what she was doing.
43:04 Speaker 07 He thought I was going to bed like normal. I put pillows in the bed. Then I just walked out the front door.
43:12 Speaker 07 I went all the way out of our gate and I hid in some bushes and I called 911.
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45:18 Speaker 08 Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.
45:33 Speaker 09 People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.
45:44 Speaker 08 And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.
45:49 Speaker 10 One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.
45:55 Speaker 08 So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.
46:15 Speaker 13 Hello, hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. It's fast, reliable, affordable. So over time, more and more of your operations rely on it. Then one day, the terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. Businesses today rely on all sorts of third-party systems,
46:58 Speaker 13 cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, these systems operate quietly in the background. But when something changes, like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced to confront how much control and flexibility they actually have. So to understand the challenge up close, I traveled to Paris to speak with IBM's Anupala Assis Anaxas CIO, Giovanni Daniele, two people who think about these questions every day. Hear the full conversation at ibm.com/smarttalks or wherever you get your podcasts.
47:43 Speaker 00 After surviving multiple violent attacks at the hands of her husband Sean, Crystal knew she needed to act quickly. That night, while Sean played video games, Crystal snuck out of the house, hid in some bushes in her neighborhood, and called 911.
47:58 Speaker 07 I had left the door unlocked and I gave him permission to go in. And I told them where he was. And they just went up there to the third floor and arrested him.
48:11 Speaker 00 Crystal called the police at 9:00 PM, but her night wouldn't end until noon the next day.
48:17 Speaker 07 I was with the police. And we were waiting on search warrants. And we were getting the kids out to my parents. I had to go to the hospital that night for a sexual assault rape test.
48:29 Speaker 00 After finishing the medical exam and filing a police report, Crystal's attention turned to her kids. They'd been home during both attacks, but they were in their bedrooms. Crystal was confident that they hadn't seen or heard the attacks. But they had been in the car a week earlier after the Easter egg hunt.
48:48 Speaker 07 Immediately, when I'm back with them, I tell them the truth.
48:56 Speaker 07 Because here's the thing. My son, who saw Sean hit that snow cone out of my face and kind of choke me, kept saying, "Are you gonna do something? We need to call the police." But I kept telling him, like, "Mommy has it under control." So, this is now like a week and a half after that. And now his dad's in jail. And I just linked him. I just said, "Remember when daddy hurt mommy? He's in jail. He hurt mommy." And it just made complete sense to him. He was like, "Okay, yeah, he shouldn't have hurt you."
49:33 Speaker 00 Then, Crystal had to tell the rest of her family and close friends what she had been through.
49:40 Speaker 07 My dad was just devastated. Everyone just couldn't believe the way that my life had been for so long.
49:51 Speaker 00 With Sean in jail, Crystal felt relieved. But she was surprised to find that there was another emotion: grief.
49:59 Speaker 07 I made vows to this man. I spent my whole adult life with him. I made children with him. I actually mourned for quite a long time after he was arrested. The life I thought I was gonna have with him.
50:15 Speaker 00 In order to cope, Crystal threw herself into work.
50:18 Speaker 07 Work was keeping me sane, and things were so crazy every day at work.
50:24 Speaker 00 Crystal had always been the breadwinner in her marriage with Sean. She managed the family's finances. So when Sean's bail was posted, Crystal was the one in control.
50:34 Speaker 07 When they first arrested him, I canceled all of his credit cards. So it made whatever was in his wallet not work. Because I thought his bail would probably be like 25 grand, or 10 grand, or something. He had like a million, 350 bail. I felt safe with that.
50:54 Speaker 00 Sean's criminal trial took multiple years.
50:57 Speaker 07 The worst thing that happened during those two and a half years is Sean finally did make bail.
51:04 Speaker 07 He's living with his mom. He becomes a cab driver.
51:08 Speaker 00 While they waited for the criminal trial, Crystal and Sean were duking it out in family court, negotiating custody of the kids. And on top of that, Sean was demanding money.
51:19 Speaker 07 Sean wanted spousal support, and we haven't had the criminal trial yet. And so, my word is the only evidence in the case at that point in family court. The judge rules that, yes, there was domestic violence and rape in this case. That's just one factor, though. And the bigger factor is that I'm the breadwinner, and it would be sexist if I don't order some spousal support for the husband.
51:50 Speaker 07 I was just so outraged. I remember leaving court that day. Shawn passed me in the car and had a number one sign, like he's the winner. He rubbed it in my face. He would like laugh when we got out of the courtroom. And I kept saying, he's a violent rapist.
52:11 Speaker 00 According to the family court judge, Crystal would have to pay the man that raped her, violated her, the man that almost killed her. At the next hearing, the judge ruled on how much Crystal would pay Shawn in spousal support.
52:27 Speaker 07 Shawn normally would have been awarded maybe $3,000 a month. But because of the domestic violence finding in this case, the judge said, I'll knock that down to $1,000 a month. And I remember someone saying, what is that, the rape discount? And not only did I have to pay him spousal support, I also was ordered to pay half of his attorney's fees, another $47,000.
52:57 Speaker 00 Crystal knew this wasn't right. Survivors shouldn't be forced to pay their abusers.
53:03 Speaker 07 Around that same time, I had happened to see a Dateline where a woman in California was ordered to pay spousal support to the man who was convicted of attempting to murder her.
53:19 Speaker 00 This woman had to pay the man that wanted her dead. But instead of accepting the ruling, she had worked to change the law in California. Crystal thought that survivors of spousal rape deserved the same protections. And it got her thinking. The next time she was in court.
53:36 Speaker 07 I can remember saying to the judge, I said, if you order me to pay this, I am gonna get the law changed. And he was like, you're gonna change the law?
53:47 Speaker 00 When Crystal sets her mind to something, she gets it done. She got to work right away.
53:53 Speaker 07 I went to my local assemblyman. And when I went into the office, I said, I'm a constituent of yours. And I just told them what happened.
54:05 Speaker 00 After hearing Crystal's story, her local representatives agreed the law needed to be changed to better protect survivors. They began the process of writing a bill and sharing Crystal's story with other California lawmakers.
54:19 Speaker 07 Every single person that we talked about it to would just be horrified and stunned to find out that this could even happen to someone, that they could be forced to pay their own rapist spousal support.
54:32 Speaker 00 The bill quickly gained traction.
54:35 Speaker 07 Almost immediately, there was like 20 different lawmakers that had their name on this bill. The district attorney also agreed that this law should be changed and volunteered to write the law. The fact that the district attorney wrote the law, and it was backed by the entire California District Attorneys Association, lended us a huge amount of weight.
55:00 Speaker 00 But the process of introducing the new bill and changing California law would take time. While Crystal and Sean's family court case dragged on, Sean's criminal trial finally began. Crystal gathered all the evidence she had, including the tape recording of Sean's violent attack.
55:17 Speaker 07 I don't know what I expected. I kind of maybe expected just to go in and be like, here's the tape, and ask me whatever you want, and just have them believe me.
55:29 Speaker 00 During the trial, Crystal discovered a horrible truth.
55:34 Speaker 07 When you are a rape victim, you are on trial too. You're cross-examined, and every move you made, every decision you made is scrutinized as much as his.
55:49 Speaker 00 Crystal thought the trial would be quick because she had a recording of the attack. And on that tape, Sean could be heard making explicit threats against her life. The recording was played in her trial.
56:01 Speaker 07 The fact that I taped what happened to me, just for that same reason where I'm thinking, "God, how is anybody gonna believe this?" It just was like, wow. In 2008, it was just not done. Nowadays, everybody tapes everything.
56:19 Speaker 00 As for Sean's legal defense...
56:22 Speaker 07 What's the only defense you can come up with if there's an audio tape? Oh, we were role-playing, of course. You know, that's his defense that he goes with. Their defense was so insulting to me.
56:35 Speaker 00 Shawn was facing three very serious charges.
56:39 Speaker 07 He was charged with forced oral copulation, spousal rape, and sodomy.
56:46 Speaker 00 When the verdict finally came down, the jury only found him guilty on one of those three charges.
56:54 Speaker 07 The jury convicted him of the forced oral copulation, which is on tape.
56:59 Speaker 00 But the jury was deadlocked on the two other charges: sodomy by force and forcible spousal rape. Even though those acts were caught on tape too, the jury wasn't fully convinced, so the court ultimately dismissed the charges.
57:14 Speaker 07 I was mad. I was mad at that verdict.
57:18 Speaker 00 It raises the question: If Crystal hadn't recorded the attacks, would there have been a trial at all? Because she was married to her rapist, Crystal felt like the courts treated her case differently. After the verdict, he was sentenced to six years for the crime.
57:35 Speaker 07 And I remember thinking, what am I gonna do when he gets out? Because like, it all starts again. My fear of him killing me, my worry for my kids, everything. It just will begin again.
57:47 Speaker 00 She started thinking of ways she could protect herself when that day came.
57:51 Speaker 07 And so I got a security-protection-trained German Shepherd. He was amazing. That moment on, I knew I was safe. Like, between all the other stuff I had, but the dog? Like, I knew Shawn couldn't be hiding in my house. It finally gave me peace of mind.
58:13 Speaker 00 Shawn would be locked up for five years. While he was still behind bars, she worked hard to change the law so she wouldn't have to pay him spousal support once he got out. In 2012, after a year of lobbying, California passed a bill which introduced exceptions to spousal support payments in cases of spousal rape. The bill protects spousal rape victims whose abusers have been convicted in criminal court from being financially obligated to their attackers. Crystal was instrumental in getting this legislation passed. She told her story again and again to help lawmakers understand.
58:49 Speaker 07 If they can't put a face to the bill, it doesn't mean anything for some reason. You can't just introduce this in theory. Like, this could happen. No, you have to be like, no, it happened to her. And she's sitting right here at the end of it all. I'm so proud of what I've done and what I've been able to get done.
59:11 Speaker 00 But the story doesn't end there. Six years after Sean's release, Crystal got a call from the district attorney's office.
59:18 Speaker 07 The deputy district attorney was sort of like, "I'm so sorry to bother you. I know this might be upsetting, but I wanted to let you know that Sean Harris has been arrested."
59:29 Speaker 00 After Sean got out of prison, he was arrested for raping another woman and sexually abusing that woman's underage daughter. Crystal felt like she'd been telling the courts for years about how dangerous Sean was. She was enraged that it took him harming two other people for his violence to be taken seriously.
59:48 Speaker 07 He is a fucking criminal rapist, and he did it to someone else. But here's the thing. When Sean was arrested in 2021 again for the same crime and charged with five felonies in that case, this time, he was sentenced to 100 years to life because the conviction in my case was in the record. It all counts.
1:00:14 Speaker 00 If Crystal hadn't pressed charges or hadn't documented his crimes, Sean's sentence could have been much lighter.
1:00:22 Speaker 07 You have to get it on the record. Abusers, they don't stop. They're gonna keep doing it, and they're gonna get worse. They're gonna escalate, and they're gonna get caught. And you need to have it on the record all along the way so that they can finally get what they deserve, like Sean finally has, and he's sentenced to 100 years to life.
1:00:47 Speaker 00 That sentence gave Crystal a sense of relief to live the rest of her life without fear.
1:00:53 Speaker 07 I'm not sure I would be where I am mentally today without that because there's just this level of I would never, ever have let my guard down if he was out, ever. And that's just a hard way to live.
1:01:08 Speaker 00 Crystal never expected to become an advocate for survivors of spousal rape and domestic violence.
1:01:15 Speaker 07 At this age of 53, I just have a compassion that I didn't have when I was young. Life is hard. I've learned like, everybody has something. And it's shocking how many people have this, have domestic violence or some aspect of domestic violence in their life.
1:01:38 Speaker 00 After she left Sean, she needed a break. She wanted to prioritize herself and her kids. So she decided not to think about dating until her kids were at least 18.
1:01:49 Speaker 07 I ended up going 12 years without dating. In 2020, I let myself go on a dating app for the first time and I met an amazing man. We're married today and he could not be a better person.
1:02:11 Speaker 00 In the past few years, Crystal has been thriving. She and her husband live together on a beautiful hillside in Southern California.
1:02:20 Speaker 07 We've got 10 acres and built a custom house. We can see all the way to the ocean, all the city lights below. It's amazing. I feel like the life I have today is everything I sacrificed and planned for years ago.
1:02:38 Speaker 00 We end every episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?
1:02:45 Speaker 14 I loved him. I wanted everything with him. And the fact that that same man is the one who made me so afraid for my life, that's the betrayal.
1:03:03 Speaker 07 I feel like women are not that well-served by the common advice that's given of just, "Just get out." I feel like that's too simplistic.
1:03:15 Speaker 07 You have to have a shield of some sort when you get out, and that shield is documentation. You have to think like a chessboard, think all the way to the end. I just feel like women need to hear that. They're not told that by the official sources because it's a little bit counter to safety sometimes. You could get hurt doing the recording. You could get hurt by staying long enough to get the documentation. And it's like, not the legal thing to say, but I'm just telling you, that's what you need. If you are victimized the way that I was and the way that so many people are,
1:03:58 Speaker 07 you should not be the one who is living in fear.
1:04:13 Speaker 00 On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly...
1:04:16 Speaker 14 We pull out of our house. We get about two blocks from the old house. And he looks at me and he says, "I think I'm getting ready to be arrested." Within seconds of that coming out of his mouth, the squad car lit us up and pulled us over.
1:04:41 Speaker 00 If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at [email protected] . That's [email protected] . Or follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod. You can also connect with me on Instagram @itsandrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division
1:05:25 Speaker 00 of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Facein. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique LaBord, with additional production from Ben Fetterman. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Del Vecchio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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