We Read Newt Gingrich's World War 2 Alternate History

Robert sits down and explains former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich's alt-history novel to Molly Conger. If you've ever wondered what would happen if the Nazis invaded Tennessee well, here it is. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Robert Evans?

  It's the podcast that it is on election day, but you won't hear this on election day. You know how the election has gone. You listening have information.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  You'll hear this in December.

• 0:20Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, probably in December.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Which hopefully means the election is over by then, but who knows?

• 0:27Robert Evans?

  God willing. Yeah, God willing. The election is almost certainly over, which means, you know, find a way to communicate to the past and let us know so that we can gamble on it. That's, that's what I'd like you to do. Uh, anyway, speaking of gambling, you know, who knows all of the words to the classic song, The Gambler? Our guest today, Molly Conger. Molly, do you know when to hold them? Oh, I know when to fold them. That's as much of that song as I know. When to run. Well done. Well done. Oh my God. And I think I only know that from Infowars. I do love watching Alex Jones sing that and the highwayman Poncho and Lefty.

• 1:12Robert Evans?

  You know, he's just grooving. It's things are going well for Alex when he's doing that. That's the most jealous I ever am of him because we're not allowed to use, we have no licensing agreement with any company that owns songs. Yeah, he must. Otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to air them like that. I think there, because there are like, there are like, like ways that you as a broadcaster can just like, make a deal for access to, you know, they have X number of songs and we can use them for whatever. I think that exists. I think that's gotta be what he does.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  You were somewhat correct, but I, that doesn't mean that Alex Jones has a deal with them. He could totally be grifting because that's what you do.

• 1:51Robert Evans?

  I think he'd have been sued before then about this.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  You're so chipper today, Robert.

• 1:59Robert Evans?

  Yep, I'm I'm chipper. I'm I'm doing good.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  How many hours of sleep did you get, bud?

• 2:04Robert Evans?

  I had like six last night. I tried to get to bed early, but I really couldn't get to sleep before like three thirty in the morning. I don't know. Uh, well, it's behind the bastards and we're all trying not to obsess over the election. And I thought, you know, we all might be hoping that history goes a different way, depending on what happens today. So why not read a work of alternate history? Uh, you know, we love doing book episodes over here because it's lets me rest a little bit. The trouble is finding a book. You can't just use any book and it's sometimes hard to figure it

• 2:43Robert Evans?

  out. And thank God, I got very lucky. Margaret Killjoy was over at my house recently, not bragging, although I am kind of bragging.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  You know some celebrities.

• 2:54Robert Evans?

  I know some celebrities. I know a famous Killjoy, who's also a famous Margaret. And she brought me a book that a fan had given her at an event because our fans are unhinged and have just decided sometimes we should hand one member of the team an absolutely terrible piece of literature to give to another member of the team. Uh, and the the the book that I have received is nineteen forty-five by Newt Gingrich. Uh, Molly?

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Wow, what if things had been different?

• 3:26Robert Evans?

  What if things had been different?

• 3:30Robert Evans?

  Do you know much about old Newt, uh, in this book?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  So I did not realize, and this is, this is on me entirely. You know, I know a little bit about, you know, old moon base Newt, but I did not realize he had written like thirty works of fiction.

• 3:47Robert Evans?

  He he has written a lot of fiction.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Where does he find the time?

• 3:51Robert Evans?

  Uh, I mean, he doesn't spend a lot of his political career does not take up a lot of time.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Well, because you know, usually when you see like, oh, you know, this politician has written a book, a memoir, memoir, or whatever. And it's like, okay, well, like, a campaign staffer wrote that. That's for PR. No, this is his passion.

• 4:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  He's writing these.

• 4:10Robert Evans?

  Yeah, this is what he really wanted to do. And my God, I it's a I wish we had some sort of program in place where when we find some guy who has like, an artistic dream, but also weird right wing politics, we just kind of like swallow our pride and fund like have have a have a government agency buy up copies of their books. So they feel like a success. Anything to keep them from running for office.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Let Hitler paint.

• 4:37Robert Evans?

  Yeah, what if let Hitler paint, let Ben Shapiro make his dog shit TV show about fucking law students.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  You're posing sort of like a Truman Show type experience where we encapsulate them safely.

• 4:49Robert Evans?

  We have to Truman Show these people, right? Run a fake, you know, that White House Correspondents Dinner that supposedly got Trump committed him to run for office. Hold a fake one of those where everybody just talks about how nice he is and how much they admire him, you know, like we yeah, we really have to put these people in bubbles. It's the kindest thing for all of us.

• 5:11Robert Evans?

  Oh, man. So yeah, we're going to be reading 1945. As you might guess, it is a World War II alternate history. Yeah, of course, Sophie, what else could it be? What else could it be? And this is a particularly.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  You did tell me that, but I did not process it. I was like, I was like, that's not what it is.

• 5:30Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah, of course, of course. And it's it's it's a wild one. I'm gonna tell you that right now. So our author for today, I'm gonna go through a little bit of a scripted portion here, is Newton Leroy Gingrich.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Leroy.

• 5:45Robert Evans?

  Leroy.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Leroy Gingrich.

• 5:47Robert Evans?

  Yeah, that I you can't not do the Leroy Jenkins thing, which is just gonna be incomprehensible for anyone in our audience that's like younger than their mid 30s. You don't know who Leroy Jenkins was. You don't remember the old times. Pieces of shit. Sorry. Anyway, there's a post in the subreddit now saying that I'm an old man and all my references are old man references. And the thing that makes me angry is is they're like, he never references The Simpsons from any episode later than the year 2000. And I'm sorry, I never reference The Simpsons episode from later than 1998, because that's when they stopped being good.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  You're not an old man.

• 6:25Robert Evans?

  Thank you, Sophie, but you've called me an old man on the show.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's because I'm allowed to. It's okay when I do it. They're not allowed to do that. You are used to them. To me, you are ancient.

• 6:38Robert Evans?

  I'm not. They haven't even seen Alien Four. These, these scrubs, these babies. None of them know what Seaquest DSV was. Molly, did you watch Seaquest?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 6:49Robert Evans?

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Go get a learner's permit. Anyway.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  I think we're the same age.

• 6:56Robert Evans?

  Will I be?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  But mentally.

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• 8:17Robert Evans?

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• 8:57Robert Evans?

  Newton Leroy Gingrich was born two years before the title of his novel on June 17th, 1943. Newt's father was a career soldier, but Newt takes a different path. He's actually an art student. He gets like an MA in the mid 60s. And like any guy who could during the Vietnam War, he gets a deferment from being drafted by arguing that he was a student and a young father. Remember that because there's going to be a funny code to that a little bit later in this story.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  We all know Newt's a family man.

• 9:29Robert Evans?

  We all know Newt's a family man. We all know Newt's a big not fighting in wars, but not a big not having wars guy. Newton is elected to Congress in 1979. In an address to college Republicans before his election, he said, "I think one of the great problems we have in the Republican Party is that we don't encourage you to be nasty. We encourage you to be neat, obedient, and loyal and faithful," and all those Boy Scout words. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, they've done a terrible job, a pathetic job. "In my lifetime, in my lifetime, I was born in 1943. We have not had a competent national Republican leader, not ever." And it's very clear from that context that a competent leader is a mean one, right? Like,

• 10:12Robert Evans?

  that's what he's missing? Like, Richard Nixon's just too nice.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Well, politics really needs us more vitriol.

• 10:18Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it needs more real assholes. I think that's interesting because it makes a case that I think is an important thing to understand if you're trying to like puzzle out why we are where we are now in American politics. And the basics of that case is, well, because Republicans lost their minds when Nixon had to step down. And everything they've done since then has been dedicated to stopping, making sure that no other Republican would ever have to leave office, no matter what crimes they committed, right?

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Well, there's no modern precedent.

• 10:48Robert Evans?

  Yeah, no modern precedent for that. So in 1985, as a congressman, Newton told an interviewer, I think from the Washington Post, who asked about his deferment during Vietnam, quote, "Given everything I believe, a large part of me thinks I should have gone over." If only Newt. I do wish you had gone to fight in Vietnam.

• 11:11Robert Evans?

  Now, that same year, when President Reagan held a summit with Soviet Premier Gorbachev, Newton called it, quote, "The most dangerous summit for the West since Adolf Hitler met with Chamberlain in 1938 at Munich." And I love the idea that, like, Gorbachev is a Hitler figure. This guy who wouldn't even shoot back during, like, the protests that overthrew his government is like a Hitler, you know? The "future Pizza Hut spokesman Gorbachev" as a Hitler kind of figure?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  R.I.P. Hitler. You would have loved Pizza Hut.

• 11:48Robert Evans?

  That does tell you where our boy Newt is on, like, the political alignment chart, right? He sees Ronald Reagan as a fucking Neville Chamberlain type. Now, that same year, Gingrich made the news for comparing a House race that was in question in Indiana to the Holocaust. Here's a quote about it. I'm gonna read you the quote, Molly. Here's a quote about it as relayed by an article in Mother Jones. And it starts with Newt here. "We've talked a lot in recent weeks about the Holocaust, about the incredible period in which Nazi Germany killed millions of people and in particular, came close to wiping out European Jewry. If someone said to me two days ago, talking frankly about the McIntyre Affair, in which Democrats refused to seat the winner of a House race

• 12:32Robert Evans?

  until they'd conducted a recount, and the efforts by the Democratic leadership to not allow the people of Indiana to have their representative, but instead to impose upon them someone else," something in which he quotes German poet Martin Niemuller. "I have never quite, until tonight, been able to link it together. Niemuller, the great German theologian, said at one point, 'When the Nazis came for the Jews, I did nothing. And when the Nazis came for me, there was no one left.'" Right? I think, sorry, I think it's Niemuller. But this, like, so basically, the Democrats are like, "Well, until we finish a recount, we're not gonna sit this guy because there's questions about the election." And fucking Newt is like, "This is the same as the Holocaust."

• 13:12Speaker 02

  So, at what point did millions of people die? Did they kill all the voters?

• 13:17Robert Evans?

  Did they murder everybody? It just kind of seems like they were doing a thing that legally is a part of the election, like, having a recount, waiting to seat the elected leader until you do the recount. Is that the same as killing millions of people in factories of death?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  There needs to be a swear jar for people who abuse the Niemuller poem.

• 13:36Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  You need to put a dollar in the jar because that was not appropriate.

• 13:40Robert Evans?

  I think anytime you reference it, you have to lose like, it should be like a Yakuza thing where you have to give up one of the joints of a finger. Right? And maybe that'll cause people to be like a lot more careful about when they deploy that bad boy.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  I heard in closing arguments at a trial last month, a trial for a man who is a white nationalist. His lawyer's argument was, you know, with this, this is free speech or trying him for his free speech. And in his closing arguments, he's, you know, he refers to the Niemuller poem. Except, you know, the poem starts, first they came for the communists and I said nothing because I was not a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I said nothing because I was not a Jew. And he says he's going to quote the poem, but he says, first they came for one group.

• 14:21Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  And then they came for another group. And it's like, what were the groups?

• 14:24Robert Evans?

  Anyone who goes for any group is a Nazi.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  What were the groups, Terry?

• 14:28Robert Evans?

  Yeah. First they came for the Nazis and I did not speak out because I was not a Nazi.

• 14:36Robert Evans?

  Oh, man, it's, it's, it's very funny. Okay, so, uh, let's get back into it. Newt served as the Republican Speaker of the House from 1995 to 99. Gingrich was the architect of the Republican victory in the 1994 congressional election, which legitimately set the stage for nearly everything the right has been able to accomplish since. Without the contract with America and his retaking of the House, it's possible we see, it's possible that we see no George W. Bush presidency, no right wing Supreme Court today. And at least a lot less of a right wing drift on behalf of the Democrats who stumbled to fight him, right?

• 15:15Robert Evans?

  This is a major move in US politics. I don't think a lot of folks who, you know, whose awareness of politics has sort of started since the Trump years know much about this, but you had, you know, slick Willie stop George H. W. Bush from getting a second term. It drove, drove these people crazy. You have briefly the Democrats in control of government and then in 94, Newt leads, I think they, they pick up 54 House seats. It's this massive sweep. Victory that comes with this thing called the contract with America, which is basically Newt introducing what becomes kind of the neo con platform, right? And and this is like a really, I mean, it's it's one of the most important moments in modern electoral history, right?

• 16:00Robert Evans?

  Newt is one of the first conservatives to see a real promise in creating a right wing system of education to push conservative values. In 1993, he crafted a college course taught at Reinhardt College called Renewing American Civilization. We're looking at this as like sort of a proto. What's that fucking guy? Who does the the little kids TV bullshit?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Oh, like the Prager University?

• 16:27Robert Evans?

  Prager University, right? This is a precursor to Prager University, right?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  I mean, he was on the Hillsdale track.

• 16:33Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's eventually televised in a cable channel called Mind Extension University.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  I don't like that.

• 16:39Robert Evans?

  Yeah, you got to extend your mind. Now, obviously, he was a ferocious opponent of gay rights and the degradation of American values in the modern era. He talked a lot about how, you know, people today, especially because of, you know, Democrats gaining such cultural dominance are just, you know, awful compared to, you know, the glorious greatest generation who really understood morality. He also cheated on his second wife with a staffer who became his third wife while he was advocating for the impeachment of Bill Clinton over infidelity. Now, this should not have been surprising to anyone who knew that in 1989, in an interview with the Washington Post, he explained that he fought with his second wife, not because

• 17:22Robert Evans?

  it mattered to him what they were fighting about, but because he had a habit of dominance that had been stoked by his time in politics. He estimated to the Post that his marriage had a 53 to 47% chance of making it.

• 17:38Robert Evans?

  Oh, man. Family values.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Fifty-three, forty-seven. I mean, that's

• 17:46Speaker 02

  I wouldn't bet on those odds.

• 17:47Robert Evans?

  Fascinating, fascinating odds to give your own marriage. Now, Newt has a long and fascinating history, and I do recommend reading that. There's a 2012 Mother Jones article with some of his best quotes that we'll link in the show notes. If you want a better understanding of the man, though, you know, that's, that's, that's a good way of getting it. But for our purposes today, we're going to be focusing on the novel 1945, which he co-authored. It is set in an alternate world where the US defeated Japan, but Hitler never declared war on the US. And so we never got involved in a war with Germany. The Nazis won their war with the Soviets. They took most of their European holdings and forced them to accept a peace. They then boxed the Brits into a corner.

• 18:31Robert Evans?

  A few years later, they carried out a surprise attack on the United States in order to kill our nuclear scientists and stop the completion of what in our universe we know as the Manhattan Project. Now, because of where this takes place, I, I'll spoil it for you, Molly. This book centers around the Waffen SS invading East Tennessee. That, that's what this book is about.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  How did they get all the way to Tennessee?

• 18:54Robert Evans?

  They've got their wonder weapons. They've got these, Newt is again, he's like a History Channel, history buff, right? So a huge part of this book is like the Nazis building all of these wonder weapons that were mostly theoretical during the actual war, including this like massive, you know, bombing type plane that they had, they had kind of been talking about making that probably never would have worked out. Like, it's all sorts of like nonsense sci-fi weapons, right?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  And what did they want with Tennessee specifically?

• 19:24Robert Evans?

  It's where the nuclear program was headed.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  That's not true.

• 19:27Robert Evans?

  Well, actually, I think it was initially before they moved to Los Alamos. I think they had, it was somewhere in like the, the southeast before they moved to Los Alamos, that they had like the early stages of the nuclear program. And I think he's just kind of positing a much more primitive nuclear program. But I'm going to pull up the book, Molly, because at this point you should see this bad boy. Look at this. Look at this.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Look at that cover art.

• 19:52Robert Evans?

  There we go. There we go.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Beautiful cover art.

• 19:55Robert Evans?

  Look at the size of his name there.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  It looks like the book is called Newt Gingrich.

• 20:01Robert Evans?

  Newt Gingrich, 1945. Yeah, like it's a book about a two-year-old Newt Gingrich.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  And it kind of has like a sci-fi feel to it. If you're a listener, you know, if you're not watching this on YouTube, um, I don't ever go to youtube.com. I'm not watching this on YouTube.

• 20:16Robert Evans?

  No, you shouldn't.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  The cover of the book is on the book's Wikipedia page and it has kind of a sci-fi vibe to it.

• 20:21Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Now I want you to look at the back here. First off, Newt's smaller than I expected. When you see him in a photo like this, this is a picture of him with his co-author, William R. Forstchen, uh, and with Jim Bain, who is the owner of Bain Publishing. And we're going to be talking a lot about Bain Publishing. I also-

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Is that related to Bain Capital or Bain the Batman villain?

• 20:43Robert Evans?

  No, not at all. Spelled differently.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:45Robert Evans?

  Uh, has not broken Batman's back. I do, I do really like the Hitler on the back here. You can see him here. He's, he just looks so happy.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  You hold it up to me. Camera, wrong camera, other camera.

• 21:00Robert Evans?

  Ah, it's, it's hard to figure out here.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Toward, yeah, that way.

• 21:03Robert Evans?

  Yeah, there we go.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 21:06Robert Evans?

  That's a good Hitler. Look at him. Look at him.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Good choice. Newt Gingrich is six feet tall. How big are those other men?

• 21:14Robert Evans?

  Oh, wow. Cause yeah, I, I thought he was actually tall. So these guys, so I think it's William Forstchen is just kind of a fucking, uh, mountain of a man. Yeah. He's gotta be like six, three, six, four. It's a big guy. Jim Bain, not a big guy. Also has the, I, I, and I say this with all love to pornographers. He has the smile of a pornographer, right? Like, look at that. That's a man who's looking at you naked. Like, there's no, there's no, there's no other way to describe the look on Jim Bain's face. Speaking of people who look at you naked, our sponsors don't. They would never do that. They're, they're gentlemen, you know?

• 21:54Robert Evans?

  Uh, or gentle thems, uh, because I think they probably don't identify as a binary gender, given that they are corporations. Raytheon is definitely non-binary. Yes. Speaking of non-binary, here's more ads.

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• 22:41Robert Evans?

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• 23:41Robert Evans?

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• 23:49Robert Evans?

  And we're back. So I want to get into the book jacket of this, of this mamajama. Let's, let's see what this is about. And you can tell right away on the inside, this was in 1995, 24 US dollars.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  That is kinda pricey.

• 24:07Robert Evans?

  Way, way too much money to spend on Newt Gingrich's 1945. Holy shit.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  29.99 for that hardback today would be pushing it.

• 24:16Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, this is like, maybe like a $15 book. Man, that's a lot. That's a lot. So, introducing Lieutenant Commander James Martell. He's the right man in the right place at a very bad time. The year is 1945. In Europe, the Third Reich reigns triumphant. The Soviet Union is a fragment of its former self and Britain has accepted a dictated armistice. In the Pacific, after a brief, sharp war with Japan, America is the only significant military presence. Now the world's two superpowers aye each other warily across an Atlantic Ocean that daily grows smaller. The big show is about to start. Who will win? The Americans with their formidable industrial base and superior logistical techniques?

• 25:01Robert Evans?

  Or the Germans with their science fiction super weapons that turn out not to be fictional after all? Only one thing is certain. If America is beaten, this alternative Reich will last a thousand years. Join Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and fellow historian William R. Forstmann in a world that, save for Adolf Hitler's inexplicable folly in prematurely declaring war on the United States in 1941, would have been.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Just revisiting the timeline here. So he's not writing this in his spare time, like in his retirement?

• 25:35Robert Evans?

  No, this is, he's Speaker of the House. This is, this is a year after he like orchestrates a complete upending of US electoral politics.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  So shouldn't he be focusing on like the government?

• 25:46Robert Evans?

  No, no. I think we can all agree this was a better use of his time than doing his job. I else, I just find it very funny that he describes himself and his co-author as fellow historians? Because as a spoiler, they are not. Neither of them are historians. Well, Forstmann is a little bit of a historian, but he's like a historian who went immediately into writing alternate histories. He is a professor of history at Montreat College in North Carolina. But that's not a real college. Yeah.

• 26:21Robert Evans?

  Look, I'll give a, I'll give a partial to Forstchen, right? Because again, he spends most of his career, like, his, his, his big job is writing a bunch of articles for Boys Life Magazine, as well as young adult novels. And does that make you a real historian? Ah, I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna put that on the cusp. But fucking Newt Gingrich certainly is not a real historian. Uh, Forstchen's main publisher was Bain, who back in the early to mid 1990s was a major purveyor of pulp, of pulp sci-fi and alternate history books. That changed as a result of 1945, which due to Gingrich's star power was expected to be a major hit. You can tell that just, just by the look of this cover, right? Newt's name is massive, they're charging 24 fucking dollars for this thing?

• 27:06Robert Evans?

  And, yeah, it's a catastrophe, Molly. It's one of the greatest disasters in fucking alt-history publishing. If you read online forums where alt-history fans discuss this book, the rumors, credible ones, are that Newt promised Bain he was going to devote a lot of time using his platform. Newt is a famous PR hound, right? He's constantly talking to the Washington Post. He's willing to say, like, shitty stuff about himself to them, as we've kind of covered earlier, because his attitude is, "I should always be in the Post," right? So Bain is like, "Well, old Newt, he knows how to get all the attention we need to move some real copies. Let's buy, like, 100,000 copies of this fucking book."

• 27:48Speaker 02

  No book sells 100,000 copies.

• 27:50Robert Evans?

  I know, it's so funny. And, yeah, Newt fails to, to do the actual PR that he had promised to do, and as a result, 1945 is one of the biggest flops in publishing history. According to the Washington Post, "For every 100 copies of this book that were sent out by Bain, 81 were returned unsold, leaving the publisher with almost 100,000 copies sitting around their warehouse. The scuttlebutt is that this was such a flop, it nearly killed Bain entirely. While I was doing my preresearch for this episode, I found a thread on a forum titled "alternatehistory.com" from 2007. Users speculated about why the sequel never came to pass." One user BCO wrote, 1945 practically bankrupted Bane books.

• 28:35Robert Evans?

  They assumed a prominent figure as Gingrich would lead to huge sales, printed up a lot of books, couldn't sell many of them. The idea of a sequel was out of the question. Another user, Amerigo Vespucci, replied with added context. To make matters worse, there was a falling out between Jim Bane and Forstmann over creative differences in the story. In part, Forstmann wrote the story as a single volume, but in order to better capitalize on the name on the cover, Bane split it into two volumes. There were other differences as well, and Bane never really discussed the matter in public. It left a bad taste in his mouth. Even with Bane's passing, I doubt we'll ever see the second volume. There'd be too many legal problems surrounding it. Your best bet might be to wait 20 years or so until Forstmann is dead too. He is still alive.

• 29:18Robert Evans?

  Enter a law school to become a crackerjack lawyer and publicist, and then start negotiations to have the second volume released from his estate. I love the thought of a man who's that dedicated to a 1945 sequel.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  I need to know how it ends.

• 29:30Robert Evans?

  The 30-year plan to get that book.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Does Hitler die?

• 29:36Robert Evans?

  Hitler is still alive.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying, like in the sequel, how does it end for Hitler?

• 29:40Robert Evans?

  I think the way this book is supposed to explain things with Hitler is that like, he's in a horrible plane crash in 41, and so he gets all fucked up, and his people are able to like negotiate a peace with the USSR. And as a result, he kind of loses his mind, like he's just like this damaged, broken figure of a man in the book.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  But he was so mentally normal before.

• 30:04Robert Evans?

  Yeah, he was doing so great before. Because this is an alt-history thing, and because Newt is the kind of dude that he is, the main Nazi in this is a guy named Otto Skorzeny, who is, a lot of people, he was a real guy. He was one of the fathers of like modern special forces tactics, like Skorzeny is a major figure in the development of like that kind of shit. I did find in a, there's a fucking Orlando Sentinel book review that says that he died during an attack on Crete, which is not true. He lived until the 70s. He moved to Spain so that Franco would protect him, and he lived. Fairly long life for a dude like him.

• 30:43Robert Evans?

  But yeah, I wanted to start here with one of the most, probably the most famous passage in this book, right? The opening scene, which features a high-powered DC politician who happens to be, if I'm not mistaken, the Speaker of the House.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  So we got a self-insert, yes.

• 31:02Robert Evans?

  This is Newt's self-insert, and remember, 1995, this is right around when Newt Gingrich is attacking Clinton and saying that he should be impeached.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Does he describe his self-insert character as like very handsome?

• 31:15Robert Evans?

  He describes his self-insert character as having an affair while he, as the real Speaker of the House, was in this moment having an affair.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Okay, you have some honesty.

• 31:25Robert Evans?

  And specifically, the point of this chapter is his self-insert character hands over the secret to a Nazi spy, who is the person he's having an affair with, that the US is working on creating an atomic weapon. Like, the inciting incident in this is his self-insert being compromised and giving up nuclear secrets in order to get laid.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  And he is in the real world the Speaker of the House?

• 31:51Robert Evans?

  The Speaker of the House and having an affair with a staffer.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  That just doesn't sound trustworthy to me.

• 31:54Robert Evans?

  It's amazing stuff. September 1st, 1945, Washington DC. Also, I don't know why they do this, but they spell prologue wrong?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  That's not one of the ways to spell that.

• 32:07Robert Evans?

  At the end of this, I've only ever seen it spelled with an E at the end of it. I don't understand why they're doing it this way. "But darling, Germany and the United States are not at war. What harm is there if we share the occasional bit of gossip? Surely you don't think that I, a loyal Swede..." The question trailed off in a lethal pout as his beautiful and so very exotic mistress stretched languidly, mock innocent appeal in her eyes. Still, he mustn't let her see just how much she moved him. A relationship had to have some balance. He stretched in turn, reached out for his cigarettes and gold-plated Ronson on the Art Deco nightstand with its Tiffany lamp.

• 32:46Robert Evans?

  Since he wasn't sure what to say, he made a production out of lighting up and enjoying that first luxurious after-bout inhalation. What an unsexy way of talking about the aftermath of sex.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Just to say, prologue, no E, is a declarative programming language designed for developing logic-based AI applications.

• 33:08Robert Evans?

  I think that, okay, so this is, oh, maybe this is what OpenAI used to create their AI. Is it all based on Newt Gingrich's 1945?

• 33:17Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I was saying, yeah, that's exactly what I was saying.

• 33:18Robert Evans?

  What a nightmare, what a hideous, hideous nightmare. So, he's having after-sex smokes with this lady who's very obviously a Nazi spy.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's not even being kind of sly about it. She's like, what if we just, if you really love me, you'd tell me national defense information?

• 33:35Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Now, here is Newt, not at all talking about his actual marriage and actual infidelity. Playfully, to drive home the potential loss, she bit his shoulder, then kissed it better. "Ah, hell, I don't want to. I wish I could just divorce Miss Little Goody Two Shoes. I like this arrangement," she laughed softly. "Mistress to the Chief of Staff of the President of the Uni-" Oh, sorry, the Chief of Staff. So, it's not exactly him, right? It's just basically him. "Uh, nice title, don't you think? Such a book I could write," Mayhew shuddered at the thought. "Don't even joke about it, but he could trust her to be discreet? He was sure he could trust her." More to cover his moment of doubt than for any other reason, he harked back to her initial gambit. "One thing we really don't

• 34:18Robert Evans?

  have to worry about is a war between Germany and the United States. It just isn't in the cards. There's no way it could happen within the next year or so. And after that, well, take it from me, but nobody is going to dream of messing with the United States, not even Adolf Hitler. I don't think there's going to be a war either, but you seem so sure. What is your big secret? You were so excited about it when you came in here, and now you won't tell me." Suddenly, the pouting sex kitten gave way to Diana the Huntress. "Tell me," she hissed. Mayhew looked at his delicious interrogator. For a moment, her intensity almost frightened him. Then he was overcome by it, by her. His had been a strict and starchy upbringing, and his marriage had not been born of love but of political opportunity, though his wife didn't know that. So he capitulated. Besides, he wanted to tell, what good were

• 35:03Robert Evans?

  secrets if you couldn't share? Okay, I surrender." "Lucky for you," she purred, then laughed. "Such games we have," she whispered in his ear. "You play wonderfully. Now, tell." Having given it, characteristically, he stalled. "Sure, you're not looking for a story for your Swedish newspaper?" She just looked at him. He could tell she was tiring of the delay. And then he tells her that we're making a nuke.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  He must have missed the annual training that they give men in the government that, like, beautiful women do not want to talk politics with you with their tops off. Beautiful women just aren't doing that.

• 35:38Robert Evans?

  No, they never would. Uh, I think that's very funny. I think there's so much, so many, so much off-putting language in this book. Like Newt, thinking of Newt Gingrich writing the word sex kitten gives me like, physical shivers up and down my spine, and it should do the same to you. But you know what doesn't make me shiver?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  How cute my dog is in the background of this video?

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Oh, Anderson is looking very good down there.

• 36:02Robert Evans?

  That gives me a little shiver. That gives me a little shiver.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  But like a joy shiver, right?

• 36:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, joy shiver, you know, share, why not? Uh, the products and services that support our pod.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  But do they support my dog?

• 36:17Robert Evans?

  Uh, no, they're neutral. They're neutral. They're cat people.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  She left.

• 36:22Robert Evans?

  Uh huh.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  The second you said no, she left.

• 36:25Robert Evans?

  Yeah, wow.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Stand your ground, Anderson.

• 36:28Robert Evans?

  Stand your ground.

• 36:32Speaker 04

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• 37:38Robert Evans?

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• 38:02Speaker 05

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• 38:38Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872. And we're back.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  You can really tell this is election day.

• 38:54Robert Evans?

  Yeah, we're really, we're half-assing our 1945 episode.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  I can't wait to find out what happens when she doesn't do anything with that secret.

• 39:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, well, she does, and Hitler invades East Tennessee.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Which is funny, because there is a guy who does love Hitler, who has a compound in East Tennessee.

• 39:18Robert Evans?

  There's a lot, Molly, there's more than one guy who loves Hitler and has a compound in East Tennessee.

• 39:27Robert Evans?

  So, there's a Gizmodo article I found called "Newt Gingrich Should Go Back to Writing Science Fiction",

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Yes, he should.

• 39:34Robert Evans?

  Kind of urging him to finish this book.

• 39:38Robert Evans?

  It has some interesting stuff to say about this piece of fiction. In any case, whether 1945 is as historically dodgy as many have claimed, it contains several vital elements of total awesomeness. For one thing, the triumphant Nazi Germany spends its time developing what the back cover describes as science fiction super weapons. You think I'm kidding? How about rockets that are remotely guided via television cameras, or superjets with drop tanks to provide ground support, plus super rockets and hydrogen-powered submarines? Plus every villain-

• 40:07Speaker 02

  You can't put "super" in front of a real thing.

• 40:09Robert Evans?

  You gotta stick "super" in front of it, otherwise people won't know that it's better than the normal kind of thing. Every villain in this book is hideous and crazy.

• 40:18Robert Evans?

  At some point, Scorsini gets injured and loses an eye, so he can get an eye patch, or maybe some kind of cyborg guy. In this passage, our hero, the square jawed Jim Martel, tries to shoot down Scorsini's plane and fails. Now, ammunition gone, he can only watch as the second and then the third plane lifted off. Unlike the second plane, the third stayed low as the pilot pushed it in just enough left rudder to cause the plane to crab onto the edge of the grass strips that it passed by not 20 feet away from where Jim stood. Otto Scorsini looked down, grinning demonically, and James Martel finally understood the meaning of hatred. There's apparently like three or four times where a character learns the meaning of hatred, and that's because Newt Gingrich as an educator likes it when people expand their minds.

• 41:01Robert Evans?

  For a little bit more coverage of some of the awkward lines in this book, I'm gonna turn to an Orlando Sentinel piece titled "As a Writer, Gingrich Makes a Good Politician." Good title for a book review. 1945 is cluttered with awkward lines like, "The exhaust vapors that swirled in through the car's open windows stank like hell itself." Then there's this, "The scene brought to Martel's mind, the absurd image of a cobra tenderly protecting a baby." Much of the pre-pulp-

• 41:30Speaker 02

  What's bringing that to mind?

• 41:32Robert Evans?

  Why would that bring that to mind? Have you ever seen that? Is that a thing you can picture because you've witnessed it?

• 41:39Speaker 02

  You know what this reminds me of?

• 41:41Robert Evans?

  Yeah, you know what this reminds me of? A thing no one's ever seen.

• 41:46Robert Evans?

  Much of the, yeah, it's very funny. Much of the pre-publication hoopla surrounding 1945 involved its supposedly steamy sex scenes, some of which were exerted, excerpted last year in the New York Times Magazine when the book was still in draft form. Gingrich vowed to tone down the sex. He succeeded. For example, in bed with his, yeah, I mean, we just read that passage, but I love that there were leaks of this that were too horny and he had to change the final draft. There's also a lot of-

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Who was leaking these? Is this-

• 42:18Robert Evans?

  It's gotta be nude, right? Who else would leak these, right?

• 42:22Speaker 02

  He's just testing the water. How horny can we get?

• 42:25Robert Evans?

  A good amount of George H.W. Bush slander in this. Gingrich talks about like, has a character who knew him when he was a pilot, because George H.W. Bush fought in World War II, who says, "If you needed someone to lead a group straight into enemy flak, he was your man." Which is funny, because he was in fact shot down during the war. And he had to also edit those portions to be nicer to George H.W. Bush, which is cowardly nude. Like, you, you, you've blown up any sort of legitimacy your book had when you do stuff like that. Anyway, I want to move to a passage midway through the book that's set in Winston Churchill's office, because one of the things that happens, while the Germans invade East Tennessee, Rommel conducts a landing in Scotland.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 43:10Robert Evans?

  They're moving down through Scotland.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  The desert fox is going to the moors.

• 43:14Robert Evans?

  No one, no one's, no one better to conduct a war of the Scottish moors than the desert fox. Just port the Africa Corps right on over. They'll appreciate the breeze.

• 43:27Robert Evans?

  So I want to talk about this, just because there's a little bit here that's kind of relevant to modern politics. Here's Winston Churchill talking, and one of his aides says-

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Rommel and I both made the same face, but we're like, oh no.

• 43:41Robert Evans?

  He's talking to one of his aides, a guy named Andrew. "For my part, I have ordered a secret alert for the Royal Air Force, starting at midnight. Also, the Army will move on spring maneuver schedule up so as to increase troop strengths throughout England. I'm also going to make a speech before the House next week accusing Hitler of preparing to launch an attack against us. Winston, I wish you wouldn't do that. Why? Because the America First crowd will go to town on you, that's why. They'd claim it was part of an ongoing plot to drag us into yet another European conflict. They'll say it was a repeat of what you and Roosevelt tried to do in 40 and 41. They'll say you're deliberately trying to provoke Hitler, that you came back to office intending to do just that, to finally drag us into a showdown with Germany. If you make that speech, I won't be able to back you up."

• 44:25Robert Evans?

  A cold, static-laden silence was the only response. "Even Roosevelt didn't start to move openly until after the 40 elections, you know," Andrew continued after a moment's pause. "You know that I agreed with him 100%. I could see the threat as far back as the denouncement of Versailles and the move into the Rhineland. I knew then, and I know now, that the maniac son of a bitch would never stop on his own, and that nothing short of a full-scale war with the United States could stop him. We should have been in it back in 41. If it hadn't been for that damned accident, he'd have declared war on us after Pearl Harbor. He all but told me that himself. In 41, we'd have won easily. Now he's 10 times more dangerous." I just love that the America First guys are the bad guy in 1995, and fucking Gingrich is absolutely going to wind up on that side here.

• 45:08Robert Evans?

  Yeah, now, there's a couple other fun moments in another chapter, not long after this. We go to Rommel, talking with some of his people, and there's a line here that's very funny. "Americans would be startled to discover the degree of camaraderie that existed not just between different ranks within the German officer corps, but between officers and rankers. Though the practice had its roots in the mutinous conditions prevalent in the German military at the end of the Great War, perhaps Germans could afford the informality because German society was so thoroughly status-conscious, whereas Americans, so unready to grant superiority to anybody, needed the outward manifestations of rank, because otherwise they would lose track of who issued orders and who took them."

• 45:52Robert Evans?

  It's an interesting description of American culture.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Oh, Newt. And a strange read of Germans. I don't know that there was informality in the ranks.

• 46:02Robert Evans?

  Yeah, informality in the German military. I think he's trying to talk about like Auftrags Taktik, which was this kind of anti, it was this kind of flattening of military hierarchies in certain specific ways that came about as a result of like combat in World War I, where you were saying basically like unit leading officers should have a lot of freedom to like conduct advances and kind of carry out attacks in a way that sort of they see fit rather than having to follow orders to the letter from above, right? It was

• 46:34Speaker 02

  I just don't know that that translated into sort of the social culture of the German people.

• 46:38Robert Evans?

  I would say the German military was particularly informal between officers and civilians, especially since like the Prussian younger officer class was still a major part of the German military in this period.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  So what happens when they get to Tennessee? Is it like a ground invasion?

• 46:53Robert Evans?

  Uh, I think they, I mean, they come in from the air, right?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Of course, yeah.

• 46:57Robert Evans?

  And then, I mean, I can tell you what happens, which is that Sergeant Alvin York and a bunch of elderly veterans, uh, form a militia and stop the Nazis.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 47:07Robert Evans?

  Largely that's who saves the day. Cause Newt's got to have his like pro second amendment stuff. So he like puts it in the mouth of like Sergeant, an elderly Sergeant York fighting off the Waffen SS.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  The old men of Appalachia, just like band together.

• 47:21Robert Evans?

  Look.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Okay, I can buy that, honestly.

• 47:22Robert Evans?

  I can buy that. I mean, the Waffen SS, the Waffen SS proved in the actual World War II that they were not very good at fighting an insurgency. And I think that Appalachia is worse terrain to fight an insurgency than anywhere in Western Russia. Um, so I'm going to say, yeah, probably, probably that would have gone bad for the Nazis.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  See, this could conceivably have been an interesting alternate history. The Waffen SS trying to like fight their way town to town through Appalachia and just getting their shit wrecked.

• 47:51Robert Evans?

  Well, the problem with this book, because that isn't it, that's a book I would read, especially if someone

• 47:56Speaker 02

  I would like that.

• 47:56Robert Evans?

  Someone less problematic like Harry Turtledove had written the fucker. Um, but that's not. Not like nude, actually nude and Forstchen kind of fall for a a standard pitfall in in writing fiction here, writing particularly like speculative past fiction is you have this point that's the actual thing that you want to get that's actually interesting, which is like a an insurgent war in Appalachia between the Nazis and like elderly American World War One veterans.

• 48:27Robert Evans?

  That's a fun premise, but you don't get to it until the very end of the book, right? By the end of the book, Hitler's, you know, geared up for a full scale invasion and we're actually getting ready to have like, you know, that he set up like a naval conflict between like US carrier groups and Nazi, like the German Navy. Like, there's a lot of cool stuff that's happening by the end potentially, but it's not really a part of the story because he feels the need to like go back much for like, you should always start a book at the thing that's most interesting to you, right? Like, you don't actually want to waste a lot of time building up to that, even if you're like, well, people are gonna want to know how we got here. No, they're not. They don't give a shit. Start at whatever's most interesting, you know?

• 49:09Robert Evans?

  It's a rookie mistake. Maybe if if Newt hadn't been so busy being the Speaker of the House, he'd have been able to get it right.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  So what you're saying is the sequel is probably a banger and we need to get it.

• 49:18Robert Evans?

  I think the sequel is a banger. It was all apparently intended to be one book that's too long.

• 49:24Robert Evans?

  But yeah, you know, I don't know. Uh, we probably don't need to go through this whole thing, especially because I it's the election. And I don't, I don't feel great.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  I do like that he named his protagonist Jim Martell, right? That's very Charles Martell, you know?

• 49:41Robert Evans?

  It's a fine name. Uh, yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  It's a charlie means dad.

• 49:46Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Also played by Christopher, uh, what's his name? From the Lord of the Rings. Um, I don't know. I think I'm good on this book.

• 49:57Robert Evans?

  We hit 45 minutes, right? That's all we owe you on our, on our off week. This is an off week. We're taking, we're taking a breather. Uh, we're trying not to focus too much on the news because nothing interesting is going to happen yet. You in the future know, so just scream at past Robert and Molly about what happened.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Uh, and if I don't get any message from the future, I will assume that we all die this week.

• 50:21Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  So please do send a message.

• 50:23Robert Evans?

  This is it for the whole world. Uh, thank God. Thank goodness. Anyway, Molly, how do you feel about the alternate past? What's, what's your favorite? World War II counterfactual? Do you spend much time thinking about like, for example, what if the Germans hadn't invaded Russia, but had focused all of their military might on North Africa? You know?

• 50:46Speaker 02

  As a woman, Robert, I'm going to say, no, I have never thought about that in my life.

• 50:50Robert Evans?

  That's a shame. I spent a lot of time doing World War II counterfactuals.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Now I could run, get my partner. I think he probably could talk about this for hours. I think this is a thing that men like to think about.

• 51:00Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  But no, no, I have, I have never considered this.

• 51:04Robert Evans?

  So are you more of a World War, one counterfactual guy? Like what if, what if Serbia had, had taken over the Austro Hungarian empire? What if, what if by World War II, the great land power in Europe was the Serbian empire?

• 51:19Speaker 02

  What if? I'm always, I'm always asking myself like that. So aren't you always asking about that?

• 51:25Robert Evans?

  I'll tell, I'll tell you one thing. We never would have stopped putting cigarettes in movies, right? If Serbia is like a China sized, like market for American television and film, cigarettes don't ever get cut out of Hollywood, you know? Uh, so that's good. That's my, that's my prediction. Um, anyway.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Molly, do you have anything you want to plug? Yeah, you should listen to my podcast, Weird Little Guys. Assuming no acts of terrorism happened this week, I won't have any new news to cover in there, but each week we-

• 51:58Robert Evans?

  Hey, there have already been five bomb threats against polling locations in Georgia.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Oh, they did pick up a guy the other day with an armed bomb about to blow up the power grid in Nashville. So it does keep happening. I'll never run off guys-

• 52:11Robert Evans?

  I'm not gonna say there will be no acts of terrorism.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you can tune into Weird Little Guys to hear about these kind of weird little guys who do things like that.

• 52:22Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Speaking of weird little guys, Newt Gingrich, probably a lot littler because he's extremely old now. So he's weird.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Check out Newt's wife's Instagram. She photo shops her face to be completely smooth in every picture. It's incredible.

• 52:37Robert Evans?

  Beautiful. And presumably, if this book is true, she's plying him for nuclear secrets.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  She used to be the-

• 52:45Robert Evans?

  You know what?

• 52:46Speaker 02

  The ambassador to the Vatican. She's not anymore, I reckon.

• 52:49Robert Evans?

  Wow, that is what a do-nothing job.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  I know.

• 52:52Robert Evans?

  Make me ambassador to the Vatican. Because you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get into those catacombs. I'm gonna steal some saints' bones, you know? I'm gonna have a whole necklace made out of the bones of saints.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Dream bigger. I'm getting the chronovisor.

• 53:05Robert Evans?

  Oh, oh, wow.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Pope's time machine.

• 53:08Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Anyways, hopefully-

• 53:13Robert Evans?

  The Pope has a time machine.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Hopefully things are-

• 53:17Robert Evans?

  I love, I love the idea that the Pope has a time machine because my imagination is, rather than doing like anything that would help the Catholic Church, he just repeatedly goes back in time to like put a thumbnail on Martin Luther's chair. Like, he's just constantly fucking with Martin Luther a little bit.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  I don't think the chronovisor allows you to manipulate the past only to view it.

• 53:37Robert Evans?

  Oh, well, then I would go look at dinosaurs.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Obviously. Obviously, Robert.

• 53:43Robert Evans?

  That's the only thing I would be interested. I'm proud to say I wouldn't stop any historical crimes with a time machine. I'm doing nothing but dinosaur-related stuff if I get access to a time machine.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:57Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Anyway.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  That's what I'm doing.

• 53:59Robert Evans?

  Go have sex with Newt Gingrich and get secrets from him.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  I don't think he even has any secrets anymore.

• 54:05Robert Evans?

  Yeah, well, there's only one way to learn.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  I hope future everybody is okay.

• 54:10Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Goodbye.

• 54:11Robert Evans?

  Okay, and, you know, wear a rubber. You don't know where Newt's been.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ.

• 54:15Robert Evans?

  Newt doesn't know where Newt's been at this point.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com/AtBehindTheBastards.

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• 56:22Speaker 03

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.