Lorna Luxe: Life After Losing John

For years, Lorna Luxe has let people into her life. Now, she opens up about the loss that changed everything. In this episode of Begin Again, Lorna Luxe, also known as Lorna Andrews, joins Davina for her first and only interview since losing her husband John. Together, they speak honestly about grief, love, loneliness, resilience, and what it means to begin again after losing the person who made you feel safe. Lorna opens up about John’s cancer diagnosis, the final year of their marriage, and the fear John carried at the end: not for himself, but for whether Lorna would be okay without him. She reflects on the deep love they shared, how John protected her, supported her, and filled the space in her life in ways she is only now beginning to understand. Davina and Lorna also explore the experiences that shaped her long before grief: her dad leaving when she was four, the rejection sensitivity that followed, her relationship with her fiercely protective mum, her eating disorder and how Instagram became the place where her creativity, perfectionism, and eye for beauty turned into a career. At its heart, this is a conversation about great love, unimaginable loss, and the quiet courage it takes to keep going. Lorna speaks with honesty, humour, and extraordinary openness about learning to live alone, honouring John’s legacy, and discovering that she is more resilient than she ever knew. Lorna Luxe reminds us that grief does not follow rules, love does not disappear, and sometimes beginning again means carrying the person you lost into everything you do next. 🌟 Like, comment, and subscribe for more honest conversations about grief, love, identity, healing, and beginning again. Tap the bell to stay connected with new episodes of Begin Again. Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod ✨ Follow Lorna: https://www.instagram.com/lorna/?hl=en ✨ Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for all your behind the scenes access, recommendations and much much more at: https://linkly.link/2g2xm (00:00) Intro (01:29) How Lorna is doing following the death of her husband (06:41) Lorna's experience of loneliness (08:11) Lorna learning resilience and being independent in the wake of John's death (12:39) How Lorna's dad leaving when she was young affected her (15:34) How Lorna's dad leaving when she was young affected her (18:11) Lorna's relationship with her mum (19:28) Lorna's eating disorder and starting her job as a Virgin Atlantic hostess (26:43) Do Health Ad (30:48) Lorna's journey to recovering from her eating disorder (32:37) How Lorna got into Instagram (35:59) Meeting and falling in love with John (45:51) How Lorna and John maintained such a strong relationship (48:50) How Lorna and John used Love Languages (51:35) Lorna on her final year with John, beginning again and honouring his legacy (1:00:54) What John wanted for Lorna after he died (1:01:50) How Lorna is dealing with grief (1:04:14) Lorna reads a letter from her mother (1:07:58) Davina's admiration for Lorna Sponsored by: Do Health - The waitlist is open. Begin Again listeners get fixed early access pricing when they sign up today at dohealth.co/beginagain use code BEGINAGAIN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 03

  The days leading up to John's death, he was really worried I was gonna be in the [BLEEP] when he died.

• 1:04Speaker 04

  What a glorious man. That his last thoughts were about the woman he loved. Everybody knows you, there's a lot of lucks online, and collectively, we loved your love.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  It felt really important that he feel seen when I first met him. I just remember thinking, why is this old bloke talking to me? We just clicked.

• 1:23Speaker 04

  Falling in love with someone is a double-edged sword because it's absolutely incredible, but it's also terrifying. Would you divorce John?

• 1:32Speaker 03

  When I got my virgin job, I became incredibly unwell. And I've worked really hard to be skinny, but John knew that I just needed to find other things to feel obsessive about, and that's how I got into Instagram. But that's when it really gets real, because you're all subject to the same fear, right? Which is your own mortality.

• 1:50Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  My one thing that was solid in my life has been whipped out of me, and I had no control over that. When John was diagnosed with cancer, I said, "I feel invisible." And that's why he's front and center of a lot of the things that I do, because I don't want people to forget him.

• 2:04Speaker 04

  Before he died, John talked to you a little bit about you meeting someone else.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Everyone has a great love. I'd be more than happy if that's me, one and done. Quite happy with that.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Welcome, this is it.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  This is Begin Again, the studios.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  I love it, it looks even better in real life.

• 2:22Speaker 04

  And it's funny calling you Lorna Andrews because to me you're Lorna Lux, like everybody knows you as that online. I wanted to quickly start off by just asking you how you are.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  You've been through a lot.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  I mean, what a shitter of a year. I'm all right. I'd say that I'm like up and down. So I wouldn't say I was like, oh, I'm great, or, oh, I'm absolutely, this is the worst thing at the minute and I can't get out of bed. I just, each day is like, we'll see what happens today. Let's not overthink it. And I think I have moments, usually about five, 10 minutes, where I feel incredibly low. But then I'm, right, I've got to get back on the next thing now, or something snaps me out of it. And I just distract myself.

• 3:02Speaker 04

  I think we collectively, or anybody that's followed you, feel for you so much because we loved your love.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it was so important in the last year, I would say, for me to really show that.

• 3:20Speaker 04

  Why?

• 3:21Speaker 03

  I think when John was diagnosed with cancer, he immediately felt, he said it to himself, he said, I feel invisible. I feel less than, like I'm not bringing enough to the table, because he'd always been my protector and had always looked after me and taken care of me, and the roles kind of reversed. And I think that last year where I could really see him becoming more and more and well, and I could predict what the outcome was going to be, it felt really important that he feel seen and very visible. And I posted a lot more, not always him directly, but referenced him in things, or, we're doing this, we, we, we, we, because I knew that was really good for him.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  And I think he knew what I was doing as well. We're a team, right? That's what you do.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  I might cry in this interview, and I'm really sorry because you-

• 4:13Speaker 03

  You won't get me, so you can't set me off.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  No, I know, but you're the person that's lost somebody.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  And I'm embarrassed to cry in front of you.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Don't be daft.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, but feels inappropriate in some way. I'm so, I'm sorry about that.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  I think that there's two types of people I meet, right? And there are those that do really empathise with me in a way and do do that and cry with me. Or sometimes instead of me.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  And then there are other people that literally ignore it and they don't even mention it.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, can't, well, can't talk about it.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  And I understand it on both sides, right? Because sometimes my coping mechanism is to ignore something if it's upsetting. But there's something really special about the connections I've made over the last few months.

• 4:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  From people who've experienced loss or haven't, but completely get it. And completely get that this is really shit. And there's not really anything you can say, is there to that? And I think understanding and being the person that goes, God, that this is actually really crap. It's quite a nice experience for me, I would say. Because it's comforting to me and it makes me feel seen. And like, yeah, my, my experience is relevant. It wasn't just John's journey, it was mine as well. So that's been important to me.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  I think the other brilliant thing that you do, that is actually harder than lots of people think, is you are just 100% transparent. And with that comes, it's exhausting because you, you can't ever hide. But at the same time, it is unbelievable, it's an unbelievable gift to other people going through something similar. What's it been like since John died? In terms of meeting people, I mean, have people talked about how much you've helped or?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  It's been a really lovely thing is that, let's say, when John first died, I wasn't online, if you know what I mean. I wasn't posting content, I wasn't talking publicly. But what I was doing was replying to all my messages and there was a lot more than usual. So I started to build more of a community of just people just checking in. And sometimes I couldn't talk to my more and more my mates because I was like, God, I sound like a broken record. And actually I found it quite cathartic chatting to some, you know, Deborah in Milton Keynes because

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Lovely.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  they are strangers to me and so I can just Say whatever and it's almost like I can throw the ball and they'll throw the ball back.

• 6:34Speaker 04

  There was a safety.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  So it was a safety element to it. So I think the last few months, that um experience of people saying to me like, you know what, I'm, my husband's not well, or I've lost my, you know, I'm four years in, things are gonna get better. All these little messages, they do land really well for me at the minute, because I I found a lot of comfort in it. And if I go quiet online now for a couple of days, I start to get all these messages, are you all right? Come on, what's going on? Because I think it is unusual for me at the minute to be quiet, because I am lonely and I'm at home on my own most nights. And so what do I do? I'll come on and cup my tea, but I'll post about it, you know, I'll be chatting while I'm doing something, because I haven't got John there to

• 7:15Speaker 03

  chat to. Maybe I spoke to him, my mates were all sick of me. So I've really got in a weird, it's like a privilege, but I've got this community of people that have just totally like stepped up to the plate, you know, where I didn't expect.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  Isn't that funny?

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. And like, how long may that continue?

• 7:31Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Because they've really like guided me through um in a different way to what I've ever used social media for in the past.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Well, first of all, I just want to quickly talk to you. You you just mentioned the word lonely.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  I find being lonely very difficult. How are you with that?

• 7:51Speaker 03

  I think that the loneliness kicks in for me in in certain times in the week as well. I noticed there's a rhythm to it.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  My loneliness kicks in around Saturday afternoon, because midweek, Monday to Friday, I'm a bit non-stop. And I've got people that work for me as well, run a business, right? So I'm I'm on, I'm doing stuff. No one's texting me about work on a Saturday or a Sunday. So by Saturday afternoon, I'm, if I've not made plans, which I've started to do.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Have you?

• 8:21Speaker 03

  I can feel, and I'm like, what am I gonna do? I need to make my tea, but I'm not a cook, good cook, so that's a quick job, because it'll be a microwave dinner. And it's all these little things that uh he did, he filled the space up without me realising.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Because I'm an only child. So as a kid growing up, I was used to being in the house on my own, but there was always people in the house. And it was the same with John. He might be downstairs watching telly and I might be in my bedroom having like launa time, but I knew he was there.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  And now, of course, I'm in this house and I'm like, there's literally no one, there's no one to like play with. And that's something I'm getting used to. And I'm sure there's lots of people that will relate to this. People that maybe have even never had a relationship and have been living alone for a long time, but it's not my norm. So I've just got to a- accept that I've got a new rhythm now.

• 9:11Speaker 04

  What are you learning about yourself? Because there must be enormous.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 9:19Speaker 04

  All this time alone.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  There is.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  Time to think.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Well, what I have learned is that I'm quite resilient.

• 9:25Speaker 04

  Did you not think you were before?

• 9:26Speaker 03

  I didn't. I thought I needed a lot more than what I need.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Um, like what?

• 9:32Speaker 03

  Well, like, and this sounds crazy, right? Because I've been, I was married for sixteen years with John, seventeen and a half, eighteen. Met him when I was twenty five. I was independent, like I lived independently when I met him, but he quickly recognised that, you know, paying bills and doing practical stuff didn't really interest me. I found that quite boring. And he was very happy to do it for me. And so over those years, he just bit by bit, managed all of these things to the point where all I had to do was get up and be me. And just go about my day and it was all just sorted out. So when it's come to that I'd say around the end of last year, where we both went, shit, we might not, we might not make this.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  We, we thought we had more time, not got this time. He really started to panic. Because he was like.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  About you?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Well, you don't even know how to pay, you don't even have your own bank card. Uh, you don't know how to do these things. And he, he was really worried. And actually, the, the days leading up to his death, he was, that was the, the last few conversations we had were about this fear. That I was really gonna be in the shit when he died, because I didn't know how to do anything.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Can you just hold my hand for one second? Can we just stop and think about what a fucking glorious man.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  He was, he was brilliant.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  That his last thoughts were worrying.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  About the woman he loved.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Oh, he was absolutely.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Were you gonna be all right?

• 10:55Speaker 03

  He was terrified for me.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  And.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I know.

• 11:01Speaker 04

  What a lovely guy.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Let's really make this a celebration about fucking.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  John and what a ledge.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, that's it is that, and that's what I'm kind of living right now.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Everything is through that lens of like.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  But can I, John, can I also say, because you just said that actually I am resilient and I am coping.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  And how, how really, he's here.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  I believe in that.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he's always with me.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  How proud he is of you right now.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  I'd be absolutely stunned at some of the things I've pulled off.

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Tell me.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  Well, a month after he died, I had to move out of the rental we were in. I sorted it all out. I managed to get the removals guys. I, the logistics of that, I did it all on my own. Yeah, my mum was there on the day, to be fair, and she organised a skip to get rid of a lot of my, like, crap that I'd collected over the months before.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  Bet that was a good skip.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  That was a great skip.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  I bet there'd be people in there going like, I'd have literally chopped off my right arm to get access to some of the stuff in that skip.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  I mean, there was a lot of old makeup, I will say that.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  I mean, even that, for a lot of people, is great.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  There was a lot of good stuff. There's a lot of crap. A lot of like, there was like a Christmas tree that never got put up. Because John had ordered this whacking great tree. And I was like, oh, I can't get it up. I don't even know how to put it in a stand. So it just stood leaning against the wall in the back room.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  So there's all those little things that I just needed to shift before I moved. And I moved into the other house with a quartz grill, which was John's, that he'd stolen from some hotel in Italy. And a lessy kettle that he'd insisted on buying. Um, that's one that's like, you know, you have to sit it and it heats up with a whistle.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Plug in, which is the most infuriating thing in the morning to wait like an hour for your brew. And then, what else did I, and our sheep, Belle, our life-size sheep. So we've got this sheep in the hallway. So it was just those three things and then everything else went in storage. So I've not got all our stuff.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Which is quite sad.

• 12:54Speaker 04

  But also, I think, going to be quite magical when you do.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  I know. I said that to my mum.

• 12:58Speaker 04

  It's gonna be, it's gonna be tough.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  It'll be tough. It'll be. I thought, I don't even want to imagine. And it's next month, I've not got long.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  Um.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  So I can feel it, you know, and the bubbling of it, you know, I've got, I've got to organise the removals guys to come back and I'm like, um. What are we going to do with all that stuff? What stuff have I forgotten about? Um, clothing, I'd kept some of his scarves with me. I did have some scarves in my suitcase. But just all of that, photographs, all our wedding photos and.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  A lot that. Yeah, you're right, it will be. I'll come over. I mean, listen, more the marrier at this point. I need all the help I can get.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  I'd like to talk a little bit about your upbringing as well, because your dad left when you were four.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, he did.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  My mum left when I was four.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  And I had mummy issues.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  You have said in the past that you have had daddy issues. How did that manifest in your life? Like, what did your dad leaving, how did that impact you?

• 14:00Speaker 03

  I think it's impacted so much of my life, more than I care to admit. But I think this fear of rejection, I think I've got, somebody said it to me the other week, you've got rejection sensitivity. And you're very sensitive to that. And I think a lot of the constructs in my life, I build around protecting that. So if I think someone's gonna pull away, I pull away first.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  In anything.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  Um.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  And I like to be really good at things because I like to prove a point because I always think, you know, you walked away from me, but look what you walked away from.

• 14:31Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  That was me. Yeah, because like I'm going to prove that I, I didn't need you because I definitely took it personally. And I know, I'm sure that a psychologist would have a field day with me.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  Um.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  And say, actually, no, it wasn't about you and it was your mum and dad. You were just a, you know, collateral damage, if you like. But when you're a four year old and you're watching your dad, you know, you're crying as you, as your dad walks down the driveway and he won't come back. I mean, how, how dare he do that, really?

• 15:00Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  And it's makes me a bit angry now, but having had an experience of being married to such a great man, I now recognise the difference between a great man and a man that is less than. And he really failed me as a, a child. And certainly that has played out into my, you know, my life as an adult.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I, I, I don't know how it, it works out as a mum leaving. I can imagine just equally as brutal.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  I think I, I had the same thing. It was just a fear of abandonment. Because the, the people who were meant to care for you abandoned you.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  And my, my, I was very lucky. My dad was solid.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Same as my mum. Same as my mum. Like, thank God that we had one parent that had our back.

• 15:45Speaker 04

  Because there are lots of people that don't have any parents that have got your back.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  So true.

• 15:50Speaker 04

  Did you see your dad at all?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  I did sporadically.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  So not, not regularly? There wasn't any kind of regular contact?

• 15:56Speaker 03

  And I think when he popped in, it was, it wasn't really, he wasn't that present. You know, there wasn't much thought went into it. I just don't think he was that bothered. I don't think he was that fussed. I think he had a really nice new wife to play with, that he's still happily married to now, I believe. And I just think he thought, this is my future and she represents the past. And that isn't shiny and enough for me. So, yeah, it's really, it's incredibly sad. Very sad, I think.

• 16:27Speaker 04

  I'm always one for putting a positive spin on something.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  Oh, God, I'm glad you said that.

• 16:31Speaker 04

  So, Laura, I'm gonna flip it now.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  And so it would be interesting to see if you would have this amazing drive in you without that happening to you as a kid. Like, was part of this journey into what, like, I don't want to put words into your mouth, but like, what was your wish when you were younger? Because you went to university for a bit, to Newcastle, but actually you left there.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:56Speaker 04

  It wasn't your destiny?

• 16:58Speaker 03

  No, uni, school, education wasn't really my shtick. I found it a bit boring. I think the legacy is that I.

• 17:09Speaker 03

  Wasn't dissatisfied with where I lived and grew up. But I'd watched my dad, like me and mum lived on, uh, you know, a lovely little council estate in Manchester and I had a very happy childhood. But I always remember seeing my dad and he lived in Whitefield. And it was quite affluent and he lived in, you know, on his road, it was all just detached houses and fancy cars. And on my road, it was like, you know, terraces and we didn't have nice cars. So I think growing up, I always thought, well, that's better. So I need to get away from this and I need to get to that.

• 17:41Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  By hook or by crook. And I think using things like going to uni or even going to work for Virgin and being a hostess. Was shining, it was a way to get away, right? Cause that's like, I'm gonna travel, I'm gonna meet new exciting people. And that was really enticing for me in my formative years, I would say.

• 18:00Speaker 04

  So it did affect you in a, in kind of a positive way. You, you became an adventurer because you thought, I don't want to stay. And it's, what I'm hearing from you, it's not, you're not complaining about your upbringing because your mum was amazing.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  And where you lived with it was amazing.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  But it was like, I want to see the what.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  I think I just used to think, well, hang on, if it's not good, why is it not good enough for him? There must be something wrong with it.

• 18:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Because I can't see it. So maybe I need to step out of this to go and work out what's wrong with that.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. That makes sense. Okay.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  As an adult now, I'm like, there was actually nothing wrong with that.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  And there's nothing wrong with this. It's just different. And we define ourselves by our, our things, right? Um, my dad defined himself by his things. His, you know, living in a better house, having a nice car. He was really, he cared about stuff. My mum is more about, you know, emotional investment. Like if for birthdays, she doesn't want a present, she wants us to go somewhere. She'll go to the pub. She'll have a nice lunch. She wants to do stuff with me. So she puts value on it like that. And I'm like, thanks for that mum, because you taught me a valuable lesson there without him realising it.

• 19:11Speaker 04

  Do you see your mum a lot now?

• 19:12Speaker 03

  I do. I do.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  I mean. Tell me about her.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  She's just a very, she liked me in so many ways, but so different. She's quite shy. But incredibly smart and very supportive. I can tell her anything. Like, and I mean, anything. So she knows all my warts and all. She knows it all.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  But there's a respect, right? She's always said to me, I'm your mum, not your mate. And she's always lived by that.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  I say that to my kids. I think that's really important.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  And I respect her and I care about her and I wanna look after her. And whatever that looks like. And certainly, you know, she was there with me throughout, you know, when John was dying, I'd say the last two weeks before he was, I kinda knew.

• 19:55Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  I said, I rang her up and I went, mum, it's time. You've got to come. I need you. And she never left. And she was like a rottweiler to anyone that come round. Because she was like, if your energy's not, if you don't need this, if you and John need some quiet time, they can go. And people would come and visit and then she'd just get rid of them. And I love that about her. Cause I could, I wasn't really aware of what was going on around me at the time. But in hindsight, I was like, oh yeah, mum really had my back that, those, those weeks. Thank God. So yeah, you'd love her. She's brill.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  She sounds amazing.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  So you'd, you'd gone off and you'd gone and got this job with um Virgin. Like, what was that like for you? Cause at the time, I think you were also just beginning to struggle with.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 04

  An eating disorder.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  So talk, talk me through, why did that happen, do you think?

• 20:44Speaker 03

  I think what happened was, I had been at uni. And I think like anyone, you go to uni, you're drinking loads and you're eating loads. And I put a bit of timber on. And I was a bit of a curvy woman. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I didn't, I wasn't happy in how I looked. And then when I started to diet and lose a bit of weight, I also saw that people treat you differently, right? So I had interest from men. I'd never had like that before. And when I got my Virgin job, you know, I, when I went for Virgin Atlantic's interview, and this is back in two thousand and two, three. They weighed you, they checked your height, they took a photo of your face. They wanted to see what you'd look like in the uniform. This was the norm back then.

• 21:26Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  It's not like it is now.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's changed so much, right?

• 21:29Speaker 03

  And actually, them as a brand, they're so different that now, like they're, so you know, they're, all their advertising is all about celebrating the differences.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Inclusivity and.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  Brilliant. Love that.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:39Speaker 03

  Um. But at the time, it was just a standard protocol, I imagine with all airlines that.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  People had to fit a mould. And I, I always recognised that I got in there because I'd lost a bit of weight. So it was always in the back of my head from the day one of that job.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  Okay, you've been rewarded.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  I got that job because I'd not eaten for a bit.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  And so maintaining weight, because you were, if you got, if you changed uniform size, you got pulled into the office. Cause it costs the business money, right?

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  So all these things were playing in my mind, that and, you know, I was living in Brighton, so partying a lot, drinking booze and eating kebabs. And having to manage my weight.

• 22:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Became an absolute full-time job. And so sadly for me, I used my, my job of, you know, flying away. Transatlantic, you stay down route somewhere for a couple of days, no one's gonna see what you're up to. So your behaviour, your habits can really start to manifest and I became incredibly unwell.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  And no one could see.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  And no one had a clue.

• 22:38Speaker 04

  Eating or that you, they just.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Just hid it. And it's terrifying when I look back.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  And I, I um noticed that you did a lot of exercising. I think they call that orthorexia as well, don't they, that. You, not only you're eating a bit, but then you're trying to work out like a maniac.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Obsessive.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  And I also think that, you know, the, the real peak of my illness, I was, and I was with John now, so he didn't know about this either. He'd got me a David Lloyd membership and in Brighton, there's one in Worthing and there's one in the Marina. And I would go to the one in the Marina in the morning, I'd cycle all the way down the seafront, which was a schlep, if you know Brighton. I'd go down there and then in the evening, I'd go to the Worthing one.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  So you were doing separate gyms so they wouldn't, the people at the gym wouldn't know. Oh, wow.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  And I'd be there for two, three hours. And it was really, I mean, when I look back now, I'm impressed at, you know. The energy I put into that. I was like, how did I even, how was I even keeping going? Um, and you know, you get into this very warped mindset. Where I was doing daft things and behave, my behaviours were changing, my mood swings were up and down. I was permanently cold.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Did anybody talk to you about it? And who, who was trying to broach it with you at that point? Did John try and talk?

• 23:56Speaker 03

  John was very concerned.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  Was he?

• 23:58Speaker 03

  He would often say like, you just, you've lost a bit too much weight now. You're beautiful, but you've just got, gone a bit too far.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  And also on flights, I might fly with someone. A girl that I'm still mates with now, Claire, she had, she'd suffered with anorexia. So she recognised the signs straight away and she pulled me in the galley. She went, you've got a problem. This is not good. You need to look after yourself. I'm here if you need me. And I treated her with such disrespect at the time. Yeah, I was rude to her. I was like, don't be so ridiculous. This is actually really out of order, what you're saying. There's absolutely nothing wrong with me.

• 24:29Speaker 04

  I think that's such a brilliant defence mechanism because it does put people off.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  Talking to you about it. It frightens people from broaching it. So, you know, that defensive thing, I was the same with drugs, like.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  You don't wanna, you.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  You don't wanna talk about it.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  And you get angry because they can't, they're threatening my big secret. And I've worked really hard to be skinny. So you're not gonna fuck with this now.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  And that was my headspace. I was like, don't you dare try and come for me on this because this is the, the only thing I'm really good at.

• 24:57Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  And it was that.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  That was the feelings, those were the emotions that were attached to me and my eating disorder.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  And I think, um, you know, a parent leaving you just leaves you feeling unsafe.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Um, you, you, we talked about this fear of abandonment thing, that kind of, you're in fight or flight.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 25:19Speaker 04

  And there's something very reassuring about controlling something in your life. So it could be anything, right? It could be drugs, drink, food, weight, like whatever. But it's like, if I can control this, I am safe.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I loved it. I really like, I kept thinking, I've got a secret sauce here, they don't know. But I, I've, I'm on something with this. And I, I was really proud of my ability to under eat and be hungry.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  And that's really terrifying.

• 25:50Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  And I'm, thank God. That I've come through the other end and I have definitely have control issues, but just with different things now, like my business is what I control and I, John certainly gave me those tools to feel like you, you, I'm your safe place. You don't need to be in control anymore because I've got you. And he kind of stepped into that role for me in a big way.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  And I've got a real antennae for spotting a good person, I think. That is my secret weapon in my job, in my job that I do now, is that I can spot bullshit a mile off.

• 26:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  And I kind of entertain, I will entertain people because of my job, I have to sometimes.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  But my, my, it's quite locked down, my group of friends. And I don't really step outside of that unless I have to. I'm quite protective of my mates.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  And that's from your upbringing, right?

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Like, I think it's from upbringing, but I think it's Virgin Atlantic that taught me that.

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 26:43Speaker 03

  I think it being cabin crew taught me a lot of that.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  Really?

• 26:44Speaker 03

  You can just, there's just little things and I think when people get on planes, they become quite childlike, right? Because they don't really know what they're doing. So they're just like, they, you're in charge. You know, you tell them when to put their seatbelt on, you tell them when they're allowed to go to the toilet. So you really, analyzing folk on a plane has really helped me in everything else I've ever done, really.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Can't I just say, that's actually blown my mind?

• 27:10Speaker 04

  That's so true.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  It's true, isn't it? Think about it as well, how you feel when you get on a plane.

• 27:14Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  You do become a bit childlike.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  You hand over all responsibility to someone else.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  You're not driving.

• 27:20Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  You don't really understand how the plane works. And it's like, I, yeah, I, I think that I really, I, I recognized how powerful that was. I was 10 years flying, right? It's a long, long time.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  To be one-on-one customer service. And so I really got to meet every walk of life on that job. You know, all different types of people.

• 27:43Speaker 04

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• 29:23Speaker 01

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• 29:24Speaker 02

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• 29:28Speaker 01

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• 29:32Speaker 02

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• 29:33Speaker 01

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• 29:53Speaker 04

  And what happened at the end and how did you get into social media?

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Well, what happened for me was that I eventually got to a point of like, I can't do this anymore. Went and spoke to a line manager and they grounded me, which I was devastated about. Because in my head, I was like, well, you can't take away my uniform because I defined myself as a virgin Atlantic girl.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Right, yes.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  I'm like a hosty and if you take this away, then you're taking everything away.

• 30:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  And that was not a rock bottom, but probably was my rock bottom was losing my job. And I was offered a ground job. I didn't want to do that.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  No.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  I spoke to John and he was like, look, you know, we're not, we're not flush by any means, but if you, if you want to take some time out and get hell, get well, then I will support that.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  Well, it was interesting, the journey, because there was kind of talk of you becoming an inpatient at a treatment centre. And I would say normally if people, because you were saying it was a rock bottom. When people hit a rock bottom and they go, you should be an inpatient, you just go, yes.

• 30:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  You were like not on your Nelly.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  I said to John, I'll do this, but it was a month. They wanted me in for a month. I imagine I would have been in for a lot longer, to be honest. But I said, after the end of that month, we're getting a divorce because the trust is gone for me. And

• 31:06Speaker 04

  Wait, why?

• 31:07Speaker 03

  I just was like, I was so adamant I was not going into that environment. And we'd been there the whole day, seeing where I would have to stay and stuff. And I was like, no, I, I can't do this. And I, it could have gone both ways. And I don't know what, a bit like a sliding doors moment.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  I'd love to have seen how that would have played out. Had I gone into impatient and then I would have come out, what would I have divorced John? What would my life have looked like then?

• 31:33Speaker 04

  Why would you have divorced him? Were you angry with him?

• 31:35Speaker 03

  I was so angry.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  Were you?

• 31:36Speaker 03

  And I felt so like, you're the only person that can like walk with me on this journey and you have to trust that this is the way I want to do it. I've given myself to you by saying, I'm not well and I need help. But if you then just lock me up in a box and don't let me do it in the way I want to do it, the control of that just was like floored me.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  What's interesting? Because my experience, but of addiction, so it's not really of a an eating disorder, is that that if you're in the addiction, you will literally say anything.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 04

  Not to have to.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  Get better, but John actually didn't make you do it. And do you think he was scared that you would actually leave after the month?

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he said that to me, he said it many times over the years. He was like, there was just no, it wasn't an option for me. I'd met my person and I wasn't prepared to take the risk. And so you you got to decide your fate and I'm so glad he did that.

• 32:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I mean, it worked.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  It worked. It took a long time.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  That's quite rare.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  I just want to say.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  How long did it take?

• 32:49Speaker 03

  It probably took about ten years, I would say.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  What did you getting better need, what needed to happen?

• 32:58Speaker 03

  I needed to do it in my own time. I needed to find other things to feel obsessive about. I'm an obsessive character, which actually I don't think you get online. You wouldn't, I'm quite laid back as well. I'm like an oxymoron because I'm super chill most of the times. But then when I get really obsessed about something, I get really excited about it and I just want to think about it all the time. And he knew that about me, he knew that character flaw. And I think he knew deep down that if she just found something else to get in, you know, interest from, this would be a distraction. And my mum knew that as well. So my mum was there, always in the background, you know, she bought me a sewing machine. She's like, why don't you get into sewing? Because she used to love that as a kid. She'd buy me all these things to do.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  Did you?

• 33:41Speaker 03

  I didn't in the end, so I do have the sewing machine somewhere, but I never got into the sewing. But they both tried to create these distractions. And actually, what was the beauty of it was that I found my own distraction. But that came from me getting a job and me waking up one day and going, you know, I'm really boring. He'd said to me anyway, he went, you're getting a bit boring, you don't have any chat. She don't go anywhere or see anyone. And I used to be a very exciting person flying around the world.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  I just, I love John.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  He was great.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  Yes, that's hilarious.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  You're getting a bit boring. I mean, only somebody that really loves you can say that.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  I remember us being in the bedroom and him saying it to me and me going. And it's it took a while sinking, so it wasn't like an immediate, right, well, I'm gonna get a job.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  But then I just thought, yeah, I need to do something. And then I applied for a job and didn't get it, but I did get a job. And I think that set the wheels in motion then, because having a job, a reason to get up every morning and do a nine to five was flipping brilliant. Never had that before.

• 34:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I had a very, you know, transient work, life, home life in Brighton. And now I was working in office with women. That I'd like real lives, think normal things to worry about. They hadn't got time to worry about their weight. They're worrying about the kids.

• 34:49Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Worrying about the bills. And I started to think, oh, maybe the my life's been a bit self-focused. Maybe it's not all about me and I just need to open it up a bit and be interested in other people's lives. And around the same time, working in, I was doing customer service, which made sense because of my virgin training. But it was a, you know, an online website where they took beautiful photos and I was watching all these pictures being taken. And I was like, well, I might try that when I get home tonight. And I'd go home and I'd set up a little, you know, corner of my room with like candles and, you know, dolls or whatever I had and take a little photo and post it. And that's how I kind of got into Instagram.

• 35:26Speaker 04

  You know, you are very brilliant at creating beauty.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  No, I love it. I love, I love beautiful things.

• 35:35Speaker 04

  But it's such a talent.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Is it a talent or is it just I had the time and the obsession?

• 35:40Speaker 04

  No, well, I believe it is a talent because I I wouldn't do that.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  But I was a perfectionist, right?

• 35:49Speaker 04

  But you knew what looked good.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  But I knew what looked, what I thought looked good. Don't always get it right. But it was fun. It was experimental. And it was like new social media, right?

• 35:59Speaker 04

  What did you call your first account or was it always?

• 36:02Speaker 03

  I remember joining Instagram in the office with the girls and my number plate at the time was L nine U X E. John had bought it me for hundred and fifty quid. Because he just, he was always saying, you're like, you look, you're my little looks. And, um. The girls in the office, because Lorna had been taken, not anymore. I've got her back. But, yeah.

• 36:22Speaker 04

  So nice, that, isn't it?

• 36:24Speaker 03

  I know, yeah, John was very, would have been very happy about that. But the Lorna Lux was there and they were like, because I think Annie, a girl who works in the office, was like, oh, why don't you be Lorna Lux because of your number plate?

• 36:33Speaker 04

  So you've always been that?

• 36:35Speaker 03

  There's always Lorna Lux.

• 36:35Speaker 04

  Brilliant.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  And, um, John and I around, would have been just before, so it would have been a year and a bit ago. We'd, we'd got, been given a meta manager, you know, like Facebook and Instagram.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  And I'd said, oh, I'd really like to just be Lorna. Is that a thing? Can I just have Lorna now? And John was like, this is good for you because where you're growing your own businesses and like, you can get, you can reclaim Andrews, which is his surname. You can be, you know, you're not Lorna Lux, you're Lorna Andrews. And I was like, yeah, you're right, I'm Lorna Andrews. And we'd ever got it. And I just thought, oh, maybe I'd just sent the email and no one's, no one's understood. And then I had a meeting with my management about three weeks after John had died. We were sat in Ketner's in Soho.

• 37:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  And I was like, you know what? I'm really pissed off because all I wanted was for John to see me as Lorna. He never got to see it and he would be really annoyed about that. And my manager was like, oh, let me pop him another email, see if anything happens. And then a week later, overnight, on a Saturday night, it changed. And I was like, is this John? Is it John doing this for me?

• 37:37Speaker 04

  Can I say? It is.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Mind blown.

• 37:41Speaker 04

  It's John.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think I have to believe that. And he would have loved it. He would have been so, that was, he loved all that. And he loved seeing me be successful and do things and them actually work. So, yeah, it was just a little win. But I was like, yes, got that, did it.

• 37:59Speaker 04

  I'd quite like to get into you and John as, um, as a couple and how you work. Um, so I think it is important how you met and it was through a friend.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:16Speaker 04

  Um, could you, could you just talk me through the meeting? I know you've told this story before.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  No, but it's a lovely thing.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  Lovely story, so.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  We'd, um, I'd right, I'd just been on a three night Antigua. And I'd just recently split up with my boyfriend and I was still in that period of like, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do and like my life's over. I was like twenty four. And then on the flight, I always remember this guy, Steve. He was like, oh, you just need to go out more. You need to like put yourself out there. You're a good looking girl. You could do all right. He was like, I've got loads of mates and he lived in Brighton. I was like, oh, okay. Anyway, not expecting to see him again. That Saturday, we landed back the Saturday morning. That Saturday night, me and the girls decided to go out for a few drinks. And I remember walking into Santa Fe in the lanes and John was stood with this Steve. And I spotted Steve straight away. So that's that bloke we've just flown with.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  And then apparently John turned to Steve and was like, who is that girl? Like, do you know her? And of course Steve was like, yeah, I've just done a trip with her. And he was like, you need to introduce me to her. I need to meet her immediately. And so they came ushering over. And I, I just remember him being very smiley, but he'd been really keen in the sunbeds. And he'd shaved his head, so he had a skinhead. And if you've seen pictures of John, you know, he looks lovely with his bushy hair. So this was not a good look for him. But generally, he was quite an attractive guy, but much older, right? Like twenty years older than me. And I just remember thinking, why is this old bloke talking to me? Like, what's he interested in me for? But the more we chatted and he told me his life story, he was getting divorced. He really like laid it all out. And I was like, wow, this guy's really oversharing.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  But he was so lovely with it that I couldn't but like just go, I was like, I'm fascinated by you.

• 39:56Speaker 04

  Were you even at that time aware that this, these kind of um, attributes in a man were so rare? Like this openness, he was quite vulnerable with you from the get go.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  But he was just a big green flag. Like there was no effing around with John. There was no lying, fibbing, trying to make out he was something he wasn't.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  He was completely himself, very comfortable in his, his skin as well. I think he was just, he always says, I'd met you and he was like, wow. And he always says I had a very severe fringe.

• 40:29Speaker 04

  You did.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  I did, to be honest.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  I've what like.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  It was. It was, I, it wasn't severe. I always said it was just a bit blunt because I used to trim it myself over the sink. But it wasn't severe, but I got what he was getting at. He was like, he was striking. And I didn't have any money. I was earning like nine grand a year. I was like, no, no money whatsoever. I used to pin my cardigans. So I had this little black cardigan on from All Saints, but I had all these like safety pins in it where it had ripped. But it still looked quite cute. And he just was like, I just loved that you were just like you, unapologetically you.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  With your big fringe and you just looked, you know, cute and you were just so open to me. And I was open. I was an open book even then. And we just clicked and I was like, I really like him. And then we ended up, for whatever reason, me and the girls ended up taking him and his mates to a club.

• 41:17Speaker 04

  That same night, that first night you met. Oh, great. Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  And the girl, the girls I was with weren't really fussed with his, his mates at all. They're like, what are we doing here? Like, can we not drop, can we drop these now and like crack up? And so we decided we were going to go to another nightclub after that. So we were going to like decant these guys at said club and bounce to the next club.

• 41:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  And so I, I went over to him and I was like, listen, we're going to make moves now. And he looked a bit like.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Don't leave me.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he was like, look, can I get your number? Please can I have your number? And I was like, no, you can't. But I was like, but he can give me yours. And he said he always thought that was it. It was like, he was trying to be polite. I was trying to be polite.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Yes, I would have thought that too.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  But I did like him.

• 41:57Speaker 04

  But were you thinking, I know, I get to, I get.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  I get to be in charge.

• 42:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  And I thought I'd like you, but I'm not like in a rush to get into another relationship. And so I took his number and then we got in the cab, we got to the next club and the next club had had a flood and it was shut. So we were like, oh, what we're going to do now? And everyone was to get, you know, you get to that point in the night where you're like.

• 42:17Speaker 04

  Flash, oh, should we just go home? Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  So I got back to my flat and it's like two, three in the morning and I was like, I'm bored now. I'm going to text that bloke. So I texted him that very night. He said he was buzzing. He couldn't believe it. He was absolutely thrilled. And that was how we started our, our relationship.

• 42:34Speaker 04

  Oh no, the universe.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  The destiny of it.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  And the floods, right?

• 42:38Speaker 04

  The flood.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  I've had two floods in my life and they've both been profound in how my life has played out since.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  Tell me, second one was, that was sofas.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so second one, you know, we bought our ghost house, brutalist house, subterranean. Anyone that has a subterranean house should know that the water has to get to the ground floor in order to go. And if that pump that was pumping the water up fails, you really are in the shit. And we were really in the shit. So one night, after a particularly rainy night, all that water that was meant to be getting pumped up started to pump into our house and the entire ground floor was sodden. And as a consequence of that, we ended up having to move out. I've still not moved back in. I've not had my house for a year now.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  I'm in a year.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  But what I would say is, would I have wanted John, John died in a rental house, would I have wanted John dying at the ghost house? No, I bloody wouldn't.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  No, isn't it, but again, isn't it funny the way that life throws you these curveballs that they end up being?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  And one was, to me was a tragedy. The first one felt like a tragedy. Oh, I'm going to go clubbing, I can't. And the second one really was tragic, but both of them led me to, in some way, I connected to John in some way. I've never really thought about that till now. But yeah, that was, that was a really good period of my life, that when I first met him. That was good times.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  And how fast did it move?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  So fast. They don't hang about, do they, when they like you? I saw on a TikTok recently, it was someone like, if you, if you want to know if a bloke knows you, you'll know if a bloke likes you because they won't mess around. And um, John really was that guy, you know, he wasn't taking no for an answer. He was booking the dates, he was making the plans. And I remember I got to, I flew to Boston and I got this, this long essay from him. Cause back then, there was no like iPhones or anything like that. It was just like, you know, your little thirty two ten. So like that essay took, you know, there's a lot of scrolling. And it was like, so these are the options for the dates. We can do this and we can meet at this time, we can go here. But I'm thinking, the wine list is quite nice there, but probably won't be able to eat there. And it's like a proper like, it was cute.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  And I got this whole essay back and I just text back and went, I'll see you at Brown's at eight. No, because I was the opposite of him, right? We were so opposite.

• 44:48Speaker 04

  Can I just say something? I bet he loved it.

• 44:50Speaker 03

  I think he did. Because I was cool, I was playing it cool.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  But were you playing it cool?

• 44:56Speaker 03

  I was cool.

• 44:57Speaker 04

  Or are you just like that?

• 44:58Speaker 03

  Feeling cool. I wasn't like, I wasn't looking at him as like a meal ticket, because I knew he had a bit of cash. I wasn't looking at him as like a potential husband, because I was like, he's way too old for me. So I was like, I don't really need to force this. I can just see where the, you know, how it plays out. And I'm so glad I did that, because we really got to know each other without the pressure of expectation and of me expecting loads from him. And does he like me? And, you know, does he fancy me? Because, well, I knew he really liked me, because he told me so. But I wasn't also overthinking it. I was allowed to just enjoy it. And that's how I fell in love with him.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  When did you fall in love with him?

• 45:31Speaker 03

  I think I fell in love with him at, uh,

• 45:38Speaker 03

  probably two and a half months in, we went to a hotel, Hotel de Van in Brighton. And I just remember we were going out for dinner and we were staying there. And he'd bought, he'd been to Reece and he'd bought like a job lot of shirts from Reece. Because he, we'd had previous instances where I'd been like, I don't really like that, don't really like what you're wearing. Because I just felt very comfortable, to be honest with him. And he'd bought all these shirts and he was trying them on, he looked so handsome, because he was a good looking bloke and he worked out. And I was just like, oh my God, I really like this guy. I think I might love him. Like, I care, I care a little bit too much.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  So, okay, let's go back to abandonment.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  And fear. Like, because falling in love with someone is a double edged sword, because it's amazing, because you, you are feeling these fantastic feelings and sometimes,

• 46:29Speaker 04

  you know, when it's really intense, it's nothing, it's nothing like it. Like, it's absolutely incredible. But it's also fucking terrifying.

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  So how were you?

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, shit, this, what if this guy, I, I, I flipped the script a bit and I became like the. You know.

• 46:47Speaker 04

  Hi.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  I don't think he ever noticed. But, yeah, I did, I was, I was fearful for the first time since I'd known him. Cause up to that point, I hadn't been, I was very like blasé about it all. It was all on my terms. And I'd be messaging him, meet me at Starbucks in an hour. And he'd like, bless him, come driving all the way from Kent Town to Hove. Like when he should be working to take me out for an iced coffee. Do you know what I mean? Like, I was taking the mick. Because I was testing him as well, right?

• 47:14Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  And I think that's another, another sadly flaw that I have with men, because you don't have it with women. But I have to test them.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  Well, it's because you were abandoned.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want to check them out.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  So I'm not surprised, you know, it's, it runs deep, that fear.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does.

• 47:30Speaker 04

  I get you.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 04

  I totally understand, and I understand you. It's not a defect, it's a, it's a survival strategy.

• 47:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it probably will always be there as well, I suspect. And he just passed every test with fine colours. It was great. He was just a lovely, lovely, wonderful man from the day one.

• 47:50Speaker 04

  Sometimes when women start to feel safe. It's like less attractive. How, how, like, how did you keep? That going? Cause how soon did you move in together? Cause that in itself is quite a kind of buzzkill.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  Within a few months, we bought a place together.

• 48:09Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  So we were moving at a right rollicking pace.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  What I think helped in the first formative years was that I was crew, right? So I wasn't there half the week.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  So that kept the mystery.

• 48:18Speaker 04

  Keeps it alive.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  And we, anyone that's ever seen us together, we are, we were. Like, read each other, like, finish each other's sentences, that kind of vibes. Very similar in some ways, very different in others. And he was so, so wanting me to do well in everything I did throughout our whole marriage. That he really.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  Molded himself in ways to me. And as I changed, as I grow, because I think you do, twenty five to thirty five, you're a different person.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  He's obviously a bit older, in his forties, fifties. He just made sure that he was following along and making sure he was a sturdy ship for me to like bounce off.

• 48:59Speaker 04

  But it is like he wasn't changing because he was, he was a good guy, just supporting you really, wasn't it? It wasn't that.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  He was just dead solid.

• 49:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  And he knew himself.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  And he had like a strong moral compass, like me, I'd be that girl that might, you know, like, listen, I'm that girl that if I'm in the supermarket and it says, have you got any bag? Like, but one bag, two bag, I might always, might not always press two, I might press one, even though I've got two. I don't know why. Why did we do that? John would never do that. He would have to go back and pay for the extra shopping bag.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm that person.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  If I put two packets of ham in the, in the basket instead of, you know, and only paid for one.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  You'd give me anxiety, Lorna. You, like, I would be so anxious.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I.

• 49:41Speaker 04

  That's really funny. You're naughty.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  I'm naughty. And he just kept me so like, good.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  And, you know, you've got to do everything right because then no one can catch you out.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  And he was very much like that by the book. And his mum was like that. And I always think, I always say this, you can tell a lot about a bloke by his mum. And I think the relationship that a man has with his mum is really crucial. And his mum was not to be messed with. She was a real character and a real like matriarch. And I really liked her.

• 50:12Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  And I think she really liked me.

• 50:14Speaker 04

  I bet she did.

• 50:16Speaker 03

  And she always still say to me, I mean, she got to ninety two, I think she was when she died, but she still say to me, I love you, Lorna, because you make my son very happy. And I really liked that because I felt like, oh, I'm doing something good here.

• 50:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  She made me feel good.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  I mean, it is interesting that just by being you,

• 50:36Speaker 04

  you know, you could create this joy in John, but just by being him, he did the same for you. So what other golden nuggets? You did mention, um, you've, you've talked about love languages before.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 04

  So talk, talk me through how you guys used, um.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  Or how did you kind of work?

• 50:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't think we ever analyzed it in the way that people do now. I think all this social media now, we're all analyzing ourselves, aren't we? Back then, you just got on with it. And I do think love languages did play that role in our relationships because we understood what each other wants. I'll be honest, I need all five, mate. I need it all. I'm quite greedy. I'm a greedy lady. I'm like, I need to be touched. I need presents. I need to be told I look great. I need it all. But he, he didn't. He really didn't. He was very, so, he was very, uh, he just wasn't a greedy man.

• 51:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  He was like, I'll just take whatever I can get. Whatever you're willing to give me, I'll take it. And I, I think that sums it up.

• 51:40Speaker 04

  That makes me feel a bit sad in a way.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  But it made me want to give him more.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Um, and he loved cuddles and touch.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  So he's touched them.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  And every morning, up until, you know, him leaving this earth, we had to have our 10 minute snuggle.

• 51:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  So every morning, didn't matter what was going on, we're pressing snooze on the alarm, using my alarm, and we're having that 10 minutes. So that was important to him. But I did like presents. And I did like him to tell me I look beautiful. And I did need those reassurances. And he just knew.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  He knew.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  And he just gave it. And he gave it like it was free. You know, he wasn't tight with it. And I think that's the measure of a good relationship, when you're generous with one another.

• 52:21Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  And you have gratitude for each other, right?

• 52:24Speaker 04

  Mm.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  Because if you're pouring, he was always pouring into my cup, even at the end when he didn't have much to pour into his own. And that's like the measure of a strong person to be with, I think.

• 52:37Speaker 04

  Lorna, the interesting thing, I think, is that, um, you know, if we look at your social media and just know, Lorna, you are, you've got this amazing life with, um, this amazing home, two homes, like we've got the mirrored one and the, you know, ghost house. And it all seems so spectacularly huge and exotic.

• 53:02Speaker 04

  And what's been interesting is that you could think, oh, well, um, it was all about him. He, you know, from what you're saying and how you've talked about him, he gifted you so much. But what I see is what you did for him in that last year

• 53:23Speaker 04

  of seeing like how he was diminishing and not wanting him to be invisible. That's so beautiful.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  That year, that last year was a real crap. It really was. And you're right, we did have all these nice things around us. But that's when shit really gets real, because it doesn't matter how much stuff you've got. You, you're all subject to the same fear, right? Which is your own mortality.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  And we were watching it and we couldn't control it at all. And yeah, it was really eye opening for me that. It's made me change my thoughts around having stuff. Like, it makes me wanna just like go travelling and just discover myself a little bit. And not be so fixed to things, because they can still be taken away.

• 54:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Like, my one thing that was solid in my life has been whipped out of me. And I had no control over that. So it's like, what's the point of having a lot of them in it? It's almost like a, feel a bit, I say, what's been really brilliant, because obviously your, this podcast is called Begin Again, right? That really resonates with me at the beginning, because I am literally like mid forties, gotta begin again. Because I've got no children, not married. I'm in between homes and that's a bloody nightmare in itself, what's gone down there. I just feel like nothing is sturdy in my life. Obviously, I've got great pals and my mum. But it really feels like flipping it.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  This is like, this is really quite, this could be quite dark. I had a, I had a choice, right, which way to go after John died. I could have gone down that I'm not getting out of bed and this is the end for me, I hate my life. Or what I'm trying to do at the minute, which is to be like, right, come on, me and John have got business to build.

• 55:22Speaker 03

  We've put a lot of work into this. I'm not going to drop the ball now. And like, let's raise money for charity in John's name. Let's do this. Let's do things to remind people that John's this incredible bloke that I got to know and witness, which is why I'm still posting about him. And I'm sure some people don't really want to see it, but I love, I love seeing all videos of him.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  We love it. Be yourself.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  And listen to yourself. I think you, you've said a couple of times that he'd said to you, I thought when I got sick, you would leave.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. You did say that.

• 55:52Speaker 04

  Which is like mental to me. Can you imagine?

• 55:54Speaker 03

  Right. That's when you need me most. What are you talking about?

• 55:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  And that's, I was a bit offended when he said that.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  That was his fear.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  I was a bit, yeah, I was a bit upset with him for saying that because I thought, well, what kind of person do you think I am? But I understand he in himself felt as though, as almost like anyone, you don't be a burden, do you? And I was like, you are not a burden. You are, you know, a, a huge part of my life. You are my business partner, my best mate. We are so many things to one another. This is the time when I've got your back. Like this is why I'm going to roll my sleeves up and show people how it's done. And I really did that. I really like thought, no, I'm not having this. I'm, you know, advocated him. When we, when he went into hospital with sepsis, I was the first person, you know, I was there. I didn't care about opening hours. You know, you can't come until four o'clock in the afternoon. I don't think so. Not on my watch. I was parking.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  Can I just say, I bet you are, I bet you are someone to deal with.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  I was not messing around.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's no messing about.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  I, I, I get it. And I would take chocolates in for the nurses, but equally I was taking sandwiches in for him because I was like, he's not eating this slop. And that is, you know, he wouldn't eat. There was week, there was a whole week where he hadn't eaten anything. I said, what are you doing? And he's like, well, I just don't want to go in and on anymore. And I was like, no, we're not doing that. We just need you to get better now. And that was May of last year, right? And he got, he had an extra, you know, six, seven months or whatever. So I'm glad that we did that. Because he said to me when he got home, I'm really glad that you kicked my ass. Because I was on a bit of a load. I was feeling lower and lower and I needed you there to just have my back.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I, I don't know, just so many things have happened in the last year, it's a lot. This is the most I think I've given it airtime in, in my head. Cause I normally pull the drawer open and have a little look, think about it for about ten minutes and then I'm like, right, okay, we won't, won't talk about that again. Let's do something else, get distracted.

• 57:53Speaker 04

  It's good.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Mm.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  It's a good strategy.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's working, it is working.

• 57:58Speaker 04

  Who's looking after you?

• 58:00Speaker 03

  My mum, my mates, myself a little bit, goes back to that resilience piece.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  I can do this, my business, got to show up.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  Tell me about that, how's that going?

• 58:16Speaker 03

  It was absolutely, parts of it were on its arse when John was really unwell. You know, I've got a fashion brand, I'm not getting dolled up, am I? I'm in my pyjama, I've been in the same pyjamas for three weeks, not washed my hair. So that was not working well. But then I also had, uh, you know, a hair brand, a beauty brand with other people involved. They were like, don't worry about it, we'll, we'll, we'll crack on and we'll sort this out. So very different and then also my personal brand, you know, a lot of my, a lot of my money comes from my own business, at my own business, me.

• 58:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Wasn't doing any of that, so it was quite scary. My house is like falling around, my, you know, everything was like, there's lots of bills coming in, there's lots of bills related to John as well.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  God.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  That was quite a scary period, didn't really understand, didn't have a bank card, you know. Day, I think day two of John dying, I had to order a bank card because I didn't have one.

• 59:12Speaker 03

  Day three, I tried to pay a bill using his app and it wouldn't go through and I rang the bank and the man went, can I just ask why are you trying to log into John Andrews's app? And I was like, well, I don't have one. And he was like, well, you need to get your own because this is, you can't do that.

• 59:27Speaker 04

  Oh my god, so you couldn't get access.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Couldn't get access to my own.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Any money.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  And, uh.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Oh my god, so what, like, what did you do?

• 59:34Speaker 03

  I just had to make a lot of phone calls and listen, I'm still sorting things out.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  And there was a lot, that, that first week, I was like a flipping heck, John, what the hell have you left me with here? It's a car crash, but bit by bit, bite sized chunks, each day, I'll open a letter and we'll deal with it.

• 59:49Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  And it's still the same today and sometimes I get a few letters through the post and I sit there staring at them and then. At some point, I sit down and they're not as scary as you think they'd be. And I have found, the funniest thing I've found is like, you'll ring someone up. So like, I rang up Sky Digital. Cause the Sky was going to be cancelled because the direct debit hadn't gone through. They were loved, it couldn't have been lovelier, so nice. And when I told her that John had died, she was, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Really like lovely. I rang up one utility company and I told them John had died and she was like, hang on, can you just hold on a sec? Because my screens just crashed, didn't even acknowledge it.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  And then she's like, right, so hang on, so what we need to do is get you, we need to change the name to you. And she didn't mention it. I thought, that's a bit weird.

• 1:00:31Speaker 04

  People are funny though, aren't they? Some people can't talk about it.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  We don't know what their experience is, right? But I was like, so yeah.

• 1:00:39Speaker 04

  If someone has a friend, like, how, how, how is the best way to handle it? What can, what do people do? What do you need? What did you need?

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  I needed people to acknowledge it.

• 1:00:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:00:52Speaker 03

  And not more than that. And it's lovely when people are like, let's go for a drink. Shall we go for a wine? Do you wanna do, I don't always need that. I think I prefer the regular check-ins, you know, just a, you're, just, just a quick call, you know, you're all right, hope today is good. Tell me something about you, because it's boring as well.

• 1:01:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:11Speaker 03

  You know, a lot of the grieving process is just sat, you know, watching telly.

• 1:01:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  And thinking, is this it now? And it's boring. So anything for me was about titillating me and like, keeping me company. And my mates did a really good job of that, to be honest. There was a lot of group chats flying around. I've got, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this on air, but one of my group chats is called

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  and it's me and two girlfriends and it's just the funniest thing. And every day I go in, I look forward to whatever the [BLEEP] I'm gonna say today. And again, it's just sharing, it's distraction.

• 1:01:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  And I loved those group chats.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  Cause I didn't, they didn't, you know, in a group chat, you're not expected to contribute, but you can still partake in it.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  You're included, but you don't have to be involved.

• 1:01:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  And I really liked that. So group chats were a, were the win for me. And still are.

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  And it's the checking in, I think, you were talking earlier about loneliness. It just kind of stops you being quite so lonely.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Speaker 04

  There are people still there.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that distraction. And also, what I thought was brilliant, because when my mum and dad got divorced, my mum always said, I lost a lot of my friends, because all those couple of friends were nowhere to be seen.

• 1:02:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, they don't want to invite you around. A single woman on their own. I had a similar thing. You're suddenly like a spare part. It's quite weird. People don't know what to do with you.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  I haven't had that experience, bizarrely. It's been, my couple of friends have invited me on holidays. I mean, I don't think they want me going on their holiday, but it's nice that they've asked me.

• 1:02:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, nice to be asked, right?

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Or they've got together with another couple and said, right, let's do this. And we've organised a lunch or a dinner and let's, you know, have a bit of a giggle. I really appreciated that, because I thought I'm going to lose some pals here. And that's been, yeah, quite the opposite.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  Before you died, John talked to you a little bit about you meeting someone else.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  John never said, we never had a full on chat about a person that I would end up with.

• 1:03:04Speaker 04

  But like, the idea, the concept of meeting.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  John was always kind of like, you need people around you. You need company. And you need to stay social. And you need to make sure, when I'm not around, that you have lots of people you can play with, because you need that stimulation. And I remember when we moved from Brighton to the Midlands, and we live in the middle of nowhere. And he was like, I'm a bit worried about this, because I'm going to be living in the ghost house and you're going to be fucking off to London all the time and partying, because you love going out. And I said, I won't do that. And of course, I'd started to do that and I had to rein it in a bit. Because he certainly isn't like me in that sense. He just likes, you know, he's quite chill. So I think he knew very much my personality type is to be quite busy.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  But I think how that's playing out at the minute is that I'm really like throwing myself into work.

• 1:03:55Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  I don't know if this is a good thing. I've heard people say, oh, you shouldn't do that. You're just delaying the inevitable of, you know, you're not grieving properly. You're spending too much time working. You're not giving yourself the time to grieve.

• 1:04:06Speaker 04

  There's no grieving properly. You grieve however you like.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  You just need to manage it.

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  But also, it's a personal thing.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it makes me happy.

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  You.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  I'm seeing people.

• 1:04:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  And I'm doing things.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  Grief is a really personal thing. Like, everybody grieves differently. I think that sometimes is a problem, so. If a couple have lost a child, you know, when the couple grieve differently, sometimes that can be very difficult for a couple. Even though the same thing has happened to them both, it's such a personal thing, grief.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's the other weird thing, right? Because we didn't, he didn't have much family and I haven't got a big family. So when he went, it wasn't like I was grieving in a gang.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  I did have my mum, obviously. But I still, I still feel a bit like it's just, I'm like a one man band there. Does anyone else miss John? Is it just me missing him? And I think that's why I'm talking about him a lot. He's front and centre of a lot of the things that I do and make decisions about them in it. Because I don't want people to forget him, because if I don't talk about him, he was gonna talk about him. And that would piss me off if people forgot about him.

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  So this is his legacy.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  It's his legacy in a lot of ways. And he was such a great person. So I was like, you can't forget him. He's great.

• 1:05:17Speaker 04

  And please keep talking about him because I think he's an amazing example for other men.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, he's smashing.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  You know, let's get more Johns.

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  Listen, if they're in the world, this is the thing, where are all these Johns? Because I, I don't see that many people like him that move like him. And operate with that full, transparent chill. And with no, no edge. He had no edge, John.

• 1:05:42Speaker 04

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  There was no sharp edges. There was no unexpected turns from him. You knew exactly what you were getting. And he was just really solid and perfect, I would say. That's how I'd describe him.

• 1:05:58Speaker 04

  He's a hard act to follow.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  He is a very hard act to follow. I don't think, I mean, you could say that that's my great love, right? Everyone has a great love, don't they? I'd be more than happy if, if that's my, me, one and done. Quite happy with that. I'm not complaining.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  Um, we've been talking a lot about your mum.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  We have.

• 1:06:17Speaker 04

  And um, we've got a little something from her.

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  For you.

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  Okay, what is it? It's not a bad photo of me, is it?

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  It's not a bad photo of you. That, can I just say?

• 1:06:28Speaker 03

  She does probably have a few of those.

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  I don't think there are any.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Oh, trust me, there's loads.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  Um, but I just wondered if I give this to you, will you read it out loud?

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  I will.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. And notice the colour of the envelope, please.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  It's all very on-brand.

• 1:06:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I hope that's, uh...

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  So she's written this?

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  I've been at, mom, it's an essay. This is like these podcasts that she sends me on voice notes. Okay. My lovely Lorna.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  I feel so proud and honoured to be your mum. Some one once said, "We are like friends or sisters." I disagreed, because our bond is as strong as there is mum and daughter. I am blessed, just like we spoke about. I have been privileged to witness so many milestones and achievements in your life. From your numerous brownie patches. Your Oscar-winning performance in the school musical. Everyone was stunned at that voice. Passing every piano exam with distinction and top marks and all those other exams. In fact, you leave me breathless at your determination to be successful whilst having fun.

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  This is so cute. When you went to university, your uncle predicted that within a few weeks you'd turn into a grunge with combat boots. I knew better.

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  You saved up and bought a Gucci watch. And being the fake tan queen since ages 14, you didn't disappoint when virtually all the girls in the halls suddenly turned orange. An influence set in the making, for sure, it's true. I had a more fake tanning. I've also been so proud of how you have got through the last few months without John. And indeed, since his first diagnosis, not easy. And I honestly don't know if I would have had the same strength to do what you've done.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  In your inimitable way, you ensured that you would use every opportunity to create valuable memories and experiences for John. Which I know he was so happy about.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Near the end, you nursed him through the darkest time. You fought for him in hospital, and it seems they wanted to give up. He became the boomerang kid, bouncing back each time because of his desire to stay with you as long as he could, until his physical strength gave up. I've learnt so much from your fortitude in navigating an extremely difficult situation. And despite your own fear, your quiet courage enabled you to continue to focus on actions that could make John's last weeks as comfortable and loving as possible. On a personal level, as an only child, you have always been happy with your own company. But I know that you also need to have someone special in your life. I really hope and pray that there is a special someone waiting in the wings for you when

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  you are ready to fly again. Lorna, you are beautiful inside and out, great to be with, kind, generous, smart and funny. You are a special and unique person, you are my Lorna. Love you, Mum. Flipping heck. That is, yeah. She's just brilliant, my mum. She is. I feel like she's just narrated our chat. We've talked about some of these things on here. The boomerang kid. And you know when, when I said, who's got you? Yeah, oh yeah, she has. She's amazing. She's a class act. You need to get her on here. She's got a much more interesting story than me. I'm not sure about that. She's just brilliant. Thank you for this. Can I keep this?

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's yours. It's a framer. Want to be treasured, isn't it? It's a framer. Oh, and a green envelope as well.

• 1:09:56Speaker 04

  Lorna, I just wanna say, I've really, really enjoyed this chat. You are amazing. You, you, you are like a brilliant example of somebody that's been through something so traumatic, and you are literally beginning again. But I can't wait to see your next chapter.

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:10:14Speaker 04

  And just wanna say good luck with all of it.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  I really appreciate it, I really do.

• 1:10:18Speaker 04

  I loved hearing about John from you.

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  I've taken so much comfort from this natter.

• 1:10:23Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  It's been a really lovely way of talking about him.

• 1:10:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, good.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  And you made it safe and...

• 1:10:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, good.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Thank you, I appreciate that, I really do.

• 1:10:31Speaker 04

  I appreciate you.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Can I hug you? Yeah. Stay there, I'm coming. I'm a little bit sweaty now. I'm sweaty too. Oh, thank you so much, I appreciate it.

• 1:10:40Speaker 05

  So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're gonna love that.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.