Begin Again Moments: Owning Your Menopause

October is Menopause Awareness Month, so for this week’s episode of Begin Again Moments, Penny Lancaster and Natalie Imbruglia join Davina McCall to explore the reality of perimenopause and menopause, and why no woman should ever feel ashamed of what she’s going through. Penny opens up about experiencing anxiety, rage, hot flushes and the unsettling feeling of no longer recognising herself. She shares how her menopause symptoms were initially mistaken for depression, the impact they had on her family life and how conversations with other women finally helped her understand what was happening. Natalie reflects on her own experience of perimenopause, from anxiety and changes in her emotions to the shame women can feel when they suddenly don’t feel like themselves. She explains why speaking openly about menopause became so important to her, helping to remove the stigma for the women coming next. Together, they explore HRT, menopause symptoms, female identity and the power of women supporting women through this life-changing transition – reminding us that menopause isn’t simply an ending, but the beginning of your best chapter yet. To hear the full conversations, watch the complete episodes on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  Stonefire Knan is baked in blazing-high heat to give you buttery, charred flatbread for any meal.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  Stonefire Knan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 0:41Speaker 04

  I love making Knan-grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 0:45Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 0:50Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire Knan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 0:55Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound friendly.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we Knan.

• 1:00Speaker 05

  Can I ask you about when you found out you were perimenopausal? Because there'll be many listeners here at that stage of their life, or they will know someone a bit like you were saying they'll either be a partner of or a work colleague of. Because it was really interesting, your journey, because it was misdiagnosed. Could you just tell us what happened?

• 1:20Speaker 06

  It was compounded by quite a few different factors.

• 1:27Speaker 06

  I mean, we all know that when we go into the hormone journey, that's at our adolescence, when we're teenagers. So my son was a teenager.

• 1:35Speaker 05

  It's classic, isn't it?

• 1:37Speaker 06

  I was coming out the other side.

• 1:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:40Speaker 06

  Losing my hormones. He was gaining them and I was losing them. We were on, we were two trains on a track heading towards each other. It was like, just blowing up. But then we'd be like crying and hugging and making up. And Rod would be like, "What is going on with you two?" Like screaming and shouting, and then you're all cuddling and making up. Like he's, "Oh, heartache." I mean, yeah, I loved doing all the apologies and hugs afterwards, but the fights were awful.

• 2:11Speaker 05

  That's a lot, right? I remember, I mean, I had the same thing, the rage.

• 2:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:15Speaker 05

  To sixty, really terrifying.

• 2:17Speaker 06

  But then to compound that as well, we were in lockdown.

• 2:20Speaker 05

  Oh, God, of course, yeah.

• 2:22Speaker 06

  So then you go, "Okay."

• 2:23Speaker 05

  You can't go anywhere.

• 2:26Speaker 06

  He's a teenager, that's why we're fighting. We're in lockdown, that's why I'm going mad. And then when lockdown first happened, there were no tests, were there? But one of the symptoms was high temperature.

• 2:42Speaker 05

  Sweating, right?

• 2:43Speaker 06

  I mean, I've got my hypothyroidism, I've always had that.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:46Speaker 06

  But...

• 2:46Speaker 05

  This is next level, though.

• 2:47Speaker 06

  This was no different, isn't it? This was this furnace. It was like I was in a cauldron. And I kind of like, look at it like in the old days when there were witches. And they would burn them at the stake. And there was these crazy, crazy women that were absolute lunatics, but I think they were menopausal.

• 3:08Speaker 05

  I think they were menopausal.

• 3:09Speaker 06

  They did, and they were all locked up and killed and hung and... They were just menopausal, going absolutely crazy. But that heat would just burn all the way up, and you would feel it rising like mercury.

• 3:22Speaker 05

  And you can't do anything about it.

• 3:23Speaker 06

  Nothing.

• 3:23Speaker 05

  Can't escape.

• 3:24Speaker 06

  And it was hotter, hotter, and you're thinking, "I'm gonna combust. How much hotter can I possibly get?" And then suddenly go, "Oh." And then it would start down. And it would be like, my son, my, oh, he was, he's fourteen now, but he was much...

• 3:39Speaker 05

  Aiden.

• 3:39Speaker 06

  Yeah. And he would open doors and windows, "It's going, mommy! Oh, quick, the breeze is coming, it's coming." And I'd waft, you know, "Here, go, mommy." Like this, they'd all come around and waft me down. Once I, once we realized that it was this symptom of women of a certain age, we still didn't really know what it was. It's, so that was my first symptoms. But I thought initially I was, I had COVID. But then, when I got on top of the covers in the middle of the night, then I turned into an ice block and it was freezing cold. I'm like, "Well, that's not the symptom, hot and cold. I sound like I've got the flu or..." But anyway, there was much more important things happening because people are dying and then, you know, and all this.

• 4:19Speaker 05

  So you just pass.

• 4:20Speaker 06

  So it was just like, "Come on, just be strong, carry on," kind of thing.

• 4:26Speaker 06

  And then it was one day, we were in England, all hunkered down together, and it was, you know, that conveyor belt of like breakfast and lunch and dinner and da-da-da-da-da-da, you know, like it was that Groundhog Day. And the kids were doing homeschooling and, you know, it was like, that was another level. But I got the dinner ready, and I'm like, "Boys, boys, calling, calling, calling." Nothing. I'm thinking, "It's getting cold now." Thinking, you know, just getting wound up. And I'm thinking, "Why am I getting wound up about dinner?"

• 4:56Speaker 06

  You know, like, it's just not in my character.

• 4:58Speaker 05

  Not you.

• 4:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's, there's your dinner if it's cold, you know. And I was getting aggravated and the anxiety was building over the most silliest things. Finally, they come into the kitchen and they're rowing, and then suddenly I fuse blue.

• 5:15Speaker 05

  We can all relate to this, Penny.

• 5:16Speaker 06

  I picked up these plates and I just went, just threw them across the room. Because my screams and my cries and my weakness, nothing was being seen.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Hmm, nothing's working.

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Nothing was working. So the smashing of the plates, they all were just like, "Uh." And Rod's like, "Boys, in the other room, quickly, quickly." And then I just slid down the side and in this heap in the corner of the kitchen, just going, crying.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  Because I think what happens, so many women say to me, "I don't recognize myself anymore." And these things, I think rage, for me and for so many other women, was the most frightening and disruptive because rage firstly isn't really accepted in women, full stop. But when it happens and you're actually quite a pacifist, which I know you are, it's so overwhelmingly frightening.

• 6:14Speaker 06

  What am I turning into?

• 6:15Speaker 05

  Yes, who am I? It's a loss of identity, isn't it?

• 6:19Speaker 06

  Yeah. So Rod, as Rod is, comforted me. Like, he didn't know what it was, so he couldn't help me or fix me. He's like, "We've got to get to the bottom of this. You know, you can't carry on like this. We can't carry on like this." I mean, how many marriages break down because of that?

• 6:35Speaker 05

  Yes, of course, at this time, yeah.

• 6:37Speaker 06

  Because women would just push the men's way and, "You don't understand, leave me alone," and all that kind of thing. And it's like, I needed help and I knew, I wanted help. So I went to a doctor. And he, man, wouldn't have gone through it, maybe had not seen anyone around him, but if he had, I'm sure lots of women had similar complaints, didn't recognize it. And as we know, when you're training to be a doctor, it's not compulsory, wasn't compulsory, to learn about menopause. It was like a, "Oh, we'd like to."

• 7:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, "We've got a little module over here, you can do if you want."

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Yeah. So I just had, like, it crying all the time and everything's overwhelming, da-da. "Let's put you on some antidepressants." And I was like, "Take anything." I didn't, I didn't care. "You're a doctor, you're a professional, you know what you're doing. Just whatever you think, just like, or let's just experiment, just help me." So I started taking them. I felt like it got worse. It numbed me, so I couldn't be happy. And when, at least I had some happiness when I was okay. But I didn't get really low in anger either, I was just like numb.

• 7:48Speaker 05

  See, that's a frightening place to be, I think, for a perimenopausal woman, because you're taking the thing that's supposed to make you better, and they end up increasing it a little bit because, "Oh, well, maybe we haven't got the dose right, it's not working properly." And then that still doesn't work, and then you think you're mad.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  I really am mad.

• 8:03Speaker 05

  So how did you find out?

• 8:05Speaker 06

  Loose women, ladies.

• 8:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 06

  Other ladies.

• 8:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 06

  Having gone through it, having...

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Isn't it amazing?

• 8:13Speaker 06

  Talked about it.

• 8:14Speaker 05

  The power of women talking.

• 8:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. And they were like, "Penny, it's not depression, it's menopause." I was like, "But I'm not, I was like, "I'm not old enough, I'm too young. Don't be silly, don't be silly."

• 8:28Speaker 06

  It's meant to be like, you know, walking cane, like, because I don't even remember my mom or, you know, never having heard of the word or I recognize the symptoms or...

• 8:36Speaker 05

  I had a thing as well where I didn't want to admit that this was happening because I didn't, I felt like it was meaning that I had to let go of my sexiness and youth.

• 8:48Speaker 06

  And, yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 05

  And it felt...

• 8:50Speaker 06

  Let go of who you are.

• 8:51Speaker 05

  Yes, who I was.

• 8:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  And actually, I did have to. But, I mean, look at you.

• 9:00Speaker 05

  It's the birth of a new...

• 9:03Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 9:04Speaker 05

  A new confidence and sexiness that is better than before.

• 9:09Speaker 06

  A more, a more confident one.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  What do you...

• 9:12Speaker 06

  Absolutely. The way I see it is, is like the beginning of a life where you have a caterpillar, and they go into the chrysalis, and then the caterpillar falls away and the butterfly's revealed.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 06

  So I feel that I've become the butterfly.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  And I believe the chrysalis is what all women are born with. That's our protective layer.

• 9:37Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:38Speaker 06

  That's our barrier, that's our invisible shield.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:42Speaker 06

  It's the menopause, the, it's the hormones, it's the progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, that cocoon, that's, that's, that's our protective layer. So we can take care of everyone. We're kind of held protected in, behind our hormones. Nothing can touch us so that we can go and take care of everyone, whether it's the house, whether it's our, our partners, our children. And we can do all of that seamlessly. You know, rising above all the bumps in the road and we can just take care... Suddenly, that chrysalis, that barrier, those hormones start crumbling away.

• 10:26Speaker 06

  And to start with, you're, you're, you're on the edge of that cliff and you're just trying to clamber back and hold back and hold on to what was. But in fact, if you find the help that you need, you could take off and go, "I'm here."

• 10:43Speaker 05

  It is amazing, isn't it?

• 10:49Speaker 00

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• 11:18Speaker 01

  Stonefire naan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery charred flatbread for any meal.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  Stonefire naan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  I love making naan grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 11:33Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire naan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Doesn't sound friendly. From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we naan.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  You know, I'd quickly like to talk to you about perimenopause, actually, because you talked earlier about thinking, I can't do my job anymore. I felt exactly the same thing. I couldn't remember people's names on a live TV show, to the point where my exec producer came up to me afterwards and said, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And then she left the room, and I burst into tears. So confusing. Mine was seeing this expression in other people's face. Yeah. Like, you know, like when you're the anxiety and you're like, huh! And then they're like... And so they look a bit frightened. Or the naught to sixty. Yeah. I was a fury. So they're like... Father! And they're like, oh, God.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  And you see it too, like, a lot in the day. And you're like... It was actually in one of my songs, but I changed the whole verse. So it was in the song Debbie. And it was, there's that face again, there's that face again. And that terrified me. I was like, why am I keeping on seeing that face in other people? Not in one person. Everyone's looking at me with this kind of like... You know, who wants to be giving that reaction to someone? It's not cool. I did a talk for a company once about the menopause, and I talked about rage and how, for women in particular, it's such a shameful emotion, right? Yeah. And it's something that often we don't have or we suppress until perimenopause.

• 13:18Speaker 05

  And then you can't suppress it anymore. And a woman came up to me afterwards and had a little cry and said, I'm so full of shame. Wow. I've really... The rage is... It's real. Yeah. But I'm Sicilian. I'm already too much. I'm half-breed. Yeah. So when you're too much before peri, and then you go through this thing and you're like, triple too much, it's hard to... There's a lot of shame. I had the funniest, I have to tell you. I had this breakfast club. What's that? With my girlfriends, but they're all like 10 years my junior. Like, we meet up for a breakfast club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How lovely! And I was telling them... Yeah. Oh, well, how useful are you?

• 14:03Speaker 05

  I was telling them, well, yeah, but know your audience. I was like, so, oh, girls, it's been so stressful, because I hit peri and suddenly, I'm like before a show, I'm really anxious and I'm really tetchy and I'm behaving in this way. And I was talking and talking and, you know, and then this, one of the girls, who shall remain nameless, was like, um, I'm really sorry, but I just have to admit that I thought peri was a person.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  So this girl was holding space for me to hitting peri, because I hit peri. And then she's thinking, oh, I suppose if I was anxious enough, maybe I'd hit someone. Because I was saying I hit peri, meaning I hit perimenopause got to that point in my life. So she's thinking peri's a person and that I punched... Turned to violence, holding space for the violence, nodding politely, and then admitted... And she's like, I thought... Gosh, she said something! Yes. She's going, oh, really? And she thought, I wondered if anyone's checked off.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  And that was my... Know your audience. 10 years my junior. Because they're... Obviously, they're not there yet. And I'm going, oh... But they're super grateful now. Well, I just... They're heading that way. I talk about it at Cox's Dinner Parties. It wasn't popular, but there's a feminist in me that when I had the tiniest bit of shame, I was like, no. This is not okay. Well done. And so I would just speak about it and malfrance of my... Like, you know, how's your vagina? And so... But it's medicine for me to talk about it and removing that shame and that stigma. Because the more it's spoken about and the more it's normalized, then the people coming after us don't have to live with the shame.

• 15:51Speaker 05

  So it's our duty and responsibility to not have to go through that year where we're saying, I don't feel like myself, for 12 months. Yes, you can actively take a role in your own future. Yes. Take a part and decide, make a decision about... I mean, even before you hit perimenopause, you can have a rough idea of when you do, what action you would like to take. You can either choose to not take HRT or take HRT. It's great to know before you hit it. Have you done intervention? What path you're gonna do. Have you done intervention on women? I've done countless interventions. I've done so many interventions. Just let me love a some estrogen on your arm, you know? You know, being a woman...

• 16:35Speaker 05

  The reason why we love women is because being a woman is fucking tough sometimes. And we go through a lot and we have cross sister bear, physical, mental, emotional, like... But it brings us closer together. We will always have something in common with any woman we meet. We'll find something. I just feel like also, from when I was younger, it just feels like women are generally more supportive of women. Have you noticed that? Or is that just getting older? I think it's because of what we go through. You know, we suffer. But our suffer brings community. It does. Yeah, and also, I love the idea, what you just said.

• 17:20Speaker 05

  You tell one woman something valuable and she'll tell 10. Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Stonefire naan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery charred flatbread for any meal.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Stonefire naan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 18:07Speaker 04

  I love making naan grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 18:11Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 18:16Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire naan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Doesn't sound friendly. From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we naan.

• 18:28Speaker 04

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