Sofia Franklyn on Call Her Daddy and the Decision That Changed Everything

Sofia Franklyn co-created Call Her Daddy in 2018. Two years later, a contract fight with Barstool ended her partnership, and the show kept going without her. Six years on, she's telling her side of the story in her new memoir, Daddy Issues. In this conversation, Emma walks Sofia back through the deal, from a $75,000 first contract to the fight over who owns the IP. They get into what Sofia would do differently, and how she learned to trust herself again after losing control of her own story. Emma also shares how she went into business with her close friend too, and the protections she put into writing from day one. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the one thing to get in writing before going into business with a friend is a partnership agreementHow to weight a partnership by what each person brings, so it holds up when your lives changeWhy "in perpetuity" should stop you cold in any contractWhen to get a second opinion, even from advisors with big namesHow to stop measuring your success against someone else'sDaddy Issues is out now, wherever books are sold.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Emma Grede, Aspire with Emma Grede, or its sponsors. Featuring a guest is not an endorsement of their views.

• 0:21Emma Grede?

  My guest today is Sophia Franklin, who helped turn Call Her Daddy into one of the biggest podcasts in the world. After leaving the show in 2020, she launched her own podcast, Sophia with an F, while navigating a very public business and friendship rupture. Now she's written a memoir, Daddy Issues, about what happened behind the scenes. Her story is about what it's like to start a show with just a microphone and an idea, build a loyal following, and suddenly find yourself negotiating a deal worth millions. Sophia and I talk about the decisions behind the deal, what she wishes she'd have done differently, and what she's learned from building something of her own. We also get into what happens when you go into business with a friend. I share some of my own experience having done that, and why I think working through an agreement can be so valuable. It can help you figure out what each of you want, even when that isn't clear at the beginning.

• 1:07Emma Grede?

  There's a lot to learn from Sophia's story, and I'm grateful she was willing to look back at it honestly with me. Here's Sophia Franklin.

• 1:19Speaker 00

  Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Ever Google a money question and end up 12 tabs deep with 12 different answers? This podcast is your shortcut back to clarity. NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast breaks down financial decisions with a team of trusted journalists. They explain the why behind decisions like investing, home buying, and choosing credit cards with clear, research-backed insights. No jargon, no misinformation. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.

• 1:49Emma Grede?

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• 2:34Emma Grede?

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• 2:52Emma Grede?

  Sophia Franklin, welcome to Aspire.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:57Emma Grede?

  I am so happy to have you here. We've got such a great conversation to be having today. I feel like anybody that doesn't know you probably has been living under a rock, but obviously, you helped create Call Her Daddy in 2018. It grew unbelievably quickly, and a couple of years after, it all fell apart over a negotiation, and the show ended with you no longer being a part of the show. Now, you've had to build something all of your own. We've got this incredible book, Daddy Issues, sitting right here, which I cannot wait to dig into. I was really excited to read it, and actually, I will say quite pleasantly surprised. I want to kind of go back a little bit and start at the beginning, because you were working in finance, you were on a salary,

• 3:42Emma Grede?

  it's about $52,000 a year from what I remember, a year before anything happened. So will you take me back to what your life was like before the podcast started?

• 3:52Speaker 02

  My life was chaotic, but I was always very driven, and I decided to get a job in finance, not because I'm good at necessarily math, numbers. I majored in economics, kind of.

• 4:10Emma Grede?

  Majored in economics.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  But like, kind of didn't get my college degree because I was two classes short. And I wanted to work at Morgan Stanley because my strong suit was English literature writing. I chose a job in finance because I thought that's how I could make money, and that's how I could get out of Utah.

• 4:33Emma Grede?

  Started your big girl job. Tell me about what you remember in those kind of like first few months before the podcast really took off. What was actually happening, and how did you end up there?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  So I would sit in my cubicle, looking over these very important documents, okay? Like, people's wills, people's, you know, their trust funds, how they're going to allocate their money. But my job was to look for a signature on the left, an emblem on the right, just very mundane. And so I would listen to podcasts all day long, and I would sit there and I would think to myself, I'm going to live in New York and I'm going to have a podcast. And I would say it over and over and over again in my head to manifest it, which is, I learned how to manifest things through

• 5:26Speaker 02

  my dad, Tom, in the book. One of the many lessons he got from rehab was how to manifest your life. So that was, that was a good one.

• 5:38Emma Grede?

  So you were like, I'm going to manifest a podcast?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:40Emma Grede?

  So tell me what that looked like. Like, how did you get in to actually filming your first show?

• 5:46Speaker 02

  So I meet Alex, and right away, we have chemistry. And we run around New York trying to get dinner for free, drinks for free, which means we need to look hot, we need to be entertaining, and we do that very successfully. And then from there, we both decided, okay, there's something here. Should we start a YouTube channel? The YouTube channel never came to be, but we are offered to start a podcast.

• 6:26Emma Grede?

  So what do you remember about the first few months when the podcast actually took off?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  It was like pandemonium craziness. I don't, it went from this level to I'm getting recognized everywhere I go. People are getting a tattoo of me. There's thousands of girls dressing up like me for Halloween in the span of like a few months. So I would say crazy.

• 6:56Emma Grede?

  Just completely crazy. And also crazy because you didn't set out for it to be that. Like you said, you didn't actually realize how lucrative it was going to become. What made you actually realize that the show had become phenomenally successful?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  The second that Barstool reached out is when I knew we had something. And then right away, I understood that there was money in it at that point.

• 7:24Emma Grede?

  I love that. What do you think initially made the show work?

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Our chemistry. In every meeting we would walk into with agents from UTA, CAA, they would kick it off with, you cannot create that kind of chemistry. You either have it or you don't.

• 7:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah, it's not something you can manufacture.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:46Emma Grede?

  And you two were electric. I mean, for those that weren't around at the time, and I have to tell you, I, I probably had just moved here. I'd been here for a couple of years, but people really were going crazy. I wasn't listening to the show, but people were like fanatical, mad fans that just were like losing their minds, were listening, re-listening to every episode. Give me some of the stats, because they were so impressive. And as I was going through the book, I was like, damn, that was popular really quickly.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  I mean, dare I say, the fandom was on a smaller scale, like Swifties with Taylor Swift, like they were that dedicated. They were using, they were buying all the merch. I mean, what it looked like was every, I swear to God, college sorority had Call Her Daddy themed parties. They had all of our merchandise. We are walking down the street and, you know, we're seeing people wearing our stuff. It became like 2 million listeners in two months, an episode. That's huge.

• 9:02Emma Grede?

  Huge. Huge by today's standards, but it's just absolutely huge.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Massive.

• 9:06Emma Grede?

  Absolutely massive. All right. So let's actually get into it, because one of the main reasons that I wanted to talk to you today is because I think there's an unbelievable amount to learn from actually what you went through. Not that people are going to have a show that gets 2 million listeners in two months, but I think we've all been in times where we've had to negotiate on our own behalves, and we've come out on a side that we didn't expect, or in a place that actually felt less favorable to us. And I, there's nothing about me that wants to try and litigate the situation, but having read your book, I do think there's so much to learn and to take from that situation. And I also wanted to offer my own perspective, because I actually went into business with a very, very dear friend of mine, my best friend in the world,

• 9:51Emma Grede?

  Chanel. And it was a weird time, because when we did it, we'd been friends for years, like maybe for 10 years. So I really knew her. And maybe that was good, maybe that was bad, but I knew everything that was good about her. I knew every weakness that she had. And when we decided to go into business together, we immediately said, this can never affect our friendship. By the same token, like, you have something, I have something, and we have to protect those things. And so we did a contract. We went in on this contract at like 26 years of age and really thrashed out, like, what happens if the shit hits the fan? What happens if this doesn't work?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Well, that's why you're where you are. You're 26, and you're like, okay, partnership agreement, let's go.

• 10:31Emma Grede?

  I was like, girl, listen, you're not taking anything, anything that I've created. And I think she was thinking the same thing. She was like, wait a minute, I have a client base, I have something to protect. But it wasn't easy. It's not like now, right? Where it's like, I have staff and I have lawyers. It's like I had nothing. We kind of papered an agreement, and then we got a mate that we knew to put the whole thing and sew the whole thing up. But that isn't what you did. And so I wanted to talk about, let's just like, before we get into that, talk about how would decisions actually be made? Because very quickly, you became very popular, Barstool got involved, and there were things to negotiate. So what did that look like in the early days before you got to this kind of breaking point of the negotiations?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  So when we signed the contract with Barstool, similar to you, we had a friend.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Uh, who was a lawyer, look it over. And he did have some hesitation around the IP. And we kind of just decided, and everything was collaborative for the most part. I kind of wanted to shop it around, Alex not as much. But I was in a position, Alex doesn't have a job. I hate my job. And so it was kind of this, why wouldn't we sign this? Even if it meant giving them the IP.

• 12:03Emma Grede?

  And what did it mean to you at the time? Like, what was the value of that contract? Do you remember?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Seventy five thousand for the first year. Which with, yeah, with some bonuses.

• 12:13Emma Grede?

  Did it feel like a good deal at the time? Were you like, whoop, whoop? That's better than the fifty two K I'm making.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Done.

• 12:20Emma Grede?

  Show me where to sign.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Where to sign, literally.

• 12:23Emma Grede?

  She's like, literally, show me where to sign. And what happened on the more creative side of things? Cause you mentioned like, in your heart, you're more of a writer. You're more of like the person that could, you know, strategize and think about ideas. How was your relationship working? Because I know the way that I put my agreement together with my friend was very much based on what we bought to the partnership. Right? So she bought her clients, her artist space, and I bought the buyers and the brands. And so it was kind of evenly weighted. We were like, this is something where it's fifty fifty. And then I sat back and I was like, well, actually I'm providing the infrastructure. So that changed the weight of the contract, meaning that I ended up taking slightly more because I was doing more. I was providing services.

• 13:05Emma Grede?

  Later, when she had kids and she decided, actually, I only want to work three days a week. As it turned out, I was like, well, that's fine. Because, you know, the way, the way we'd figured out our negotiation, that worked for that situation. What did you decide early on that kind of governed the way that you worked and who, who was doing what?

• 13:23Speaker 02

  We didn't. We, we straight up didn't. Everything was together, you know? We didn't talk about who is better at what, who's bringing what, how much is that worth? Like, that conversation did not take place at that stage.

• 13:44Emma Grede?

  I mean, even as I speak to you now, is there anything that hearing about how I structured that partnership makes you think differently? Or does something stand out to you?

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Well, I wanted to ask you, what did the negotiation look like when you came in and said, I should actually be having more than fifty percent?

• 14:06Emma Grede?

  You know, it's a really good question. I, I'd have to like call Chanel up. I mean, from my side, it looks fine. I was like, does this feel good to you? Because I'm bringing all the value.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:15Emma Grede?

  But to me, there was a very clear, you know, it's like, I owned the office, I owned all the staff, I had the infrastructure. And I'm, I mean, listen, I'm talking like I had an office of sixteen people at that time. I'm trying to, literally, like, I'm looking around. I had a small company, but it's like, that small company was delivering a lot of business and it could help amplify what she was doing. And so it meant that she could just come in, service all of her clients, and I could do the billing. I could go out and find the brands, I could help service the business. So there was a real value.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  And it was clear.

• 14:48Emma Grede?

  And it was, it was clear, but also it was agreed. And I think that when we talk about negotiation, we always imagine that someone has to lose. I think about negotiation very differently. I think a good negotiation is when both partners come to like a mutually advantageous place, right? You're both a little bit pissed off.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:06Emma Grede?

  By the way, that's usually what happens, right? But there's that give, give, and you meet somewhere in the middle. Now that you've had a lot of time to think about it, is, I'm just trying to think, as you go back to that time, do you, do you think actually, had we had had that conversation, it all would have been fine? Or there just was no place for it? Like?

• 15:25Speaker 02

  There was no place for it because we had done three episodes. Podcasting is still very new and neither of us knew how to put the value on the individual things we were doing. But more so, we didn't feel like we were doing things individually.

• 15:48Emma Grede?

  And it makes sense when you think about it like that, but it's hard to do. And I do think a lot of women, to your earlier point, have a lot of trouble valuing their contribution. Because it's like something that comes so easy to you. You sit down, you're funny as fuck, you're cute as fuck, and like, you're like, how do I put a price on that? Like, we're just two friends shooting the shit.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:07Emma Grede?

  But you very quickly understood

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:10Emma Grede?

  That you were worth a lot more than that seventy five K

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:14Emma Grede?

  That you were being promised in that initial contract. And that's where you're saying you were the better negotiator.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yes, and I was aggressive, but I don't think that it was too aggressive. And I know that that's kind of the narrative that is out there. I disagree with that narrative and we can talk about why.

• 16:40Emma Grede?

  I've traveled so much this year and I've had some really memorable experiences along the way. I made it to Capri for my annual girls' trip, which is an important tradition that I take so very seriously. For me, it is the perfect chance to reset, reconnect and spend uninterrupted time with the women who've seen me through every season of life. We took a boat along the Amalfi Coast, exploring the most beautiful places like Positano and Ravello. But my favorite memory was something much simpler. Every morning, we'd go down to the local beach and swim before anyone else arrived. The water was completely still and there's something so peaceful about starting your day that way.

• 17:19Emma Grede?

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• 17:57Speaker 03

  Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?

• 18:00Speaker 04

  I have seven hundred and twenty nine dollars and seventy one cents in my bank account.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  We bought, you know, a one point three million dollar house on a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar income.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  On the podcast, What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:30Emma Grede?

  So knowing what you know now and like thinking and being able to take a step back, what do you think two friends should align on before they get into business with one another?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  They need to have a partnership agreement in place. And they need to be transparent about who is doing what and what the value is. But that would obviously automatically come up when you're signing a partnership agreement. Right?

• 19:03Emma Grede?

  Absolutely, it would.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  It really boils down to that. I don't think there's any like red flags or anything that I could have done differently.

• 19:17Emma Grede?

  Well, I think what happens in my experience is that even having the conversations and going through the points raises things that you might otherwise not be talking about.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  That, yeah.

• 19:31Emma Grede?

  Right?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  And you're good to call me out on that because that we didn't, we very much didn't like to do that.

• 19:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  We're like, we're best friends, we are equal, we are, you know? And I think maybe being super specific could have been helpful.

• 19:52Emma Grede?

  Yeah, I think it is. I think it's having that uncomfortable conversation because in a partnership, it's very rarely evenly weighted. And so for the two of you, and I know that it gets ever more complicated as you get into merch, as you get into brand deals, like all the things that were coming down the path for you. You could never have anticipated that, but you could have had some of those conversations that would have taken the weight out of some of the complexities that came a lot later. And I think, but again, just by virtue of trying to flesh through it and thinking into the future, you would have realized where there was perhaps a misalignment.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:27Emma Grede?

  Where one wanted to go one way, one wanted to go the other. And listen, who knows, right? Would it have all worked out fine?

• 20:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:34Emma Grede?

  You don't know.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  No, I do know.

• 20:36Emma Grede?

  No, she does.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  I will go on the record and say that she was going to cut me out, fuck me over at some point, period, point blank.

• 20:51Emma Grede?

  What did the experience teach you? That you would look differently in like a business partner and a friend if you were doing this all over?

• 21:01Speaker 02

  I would not choose a partner who is not interested in partnership, but how can you know? It's similar to a divorce, right? I give this author a shout out every, I need to like promote my book and stop promoting her book. Strangers.

• 21:24Emma Grede?

  Oh, I read Strangers.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Is so good.

• 21:27Emma Grede?

  It's excellent, although I kind of wanted to throw it at the wall, like every chapter.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Oh, a little bit. But people behave differently when the stakes are high. How could she have really, you think she could have foreseen that he was a monster?

• 21:50Emma Grede?

  Forget if he was a monster, she had a bunch of shit to protect. I mean, do you know what the irony of all of this is that I'm about to sit on a panel with wonderful Bell Burden, so I'm actually gonna get to say all of this directly to her. I feel like I'm speaking behind a friend's back. I don't know this lady. I just am a fan of the book and every woman should read the book. But it's like, my point of view is that when you have something to protect, right? She came from the wealthy background. You owe it to yourself and your family and the people that made that money to protect that money.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  You're

• 22:22Emma Grede?

  What are you talking about? I love this man, the birds are nesting and flocking. I'm like, protect your money.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  You are a billion percent right. She needed to protect herself. But I don't think we can blame her for not foreseeing her husband was gonna like

• 22:39Emma Grede?

  No.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Have a, you know,

• 22:41Emma Grede?

  Definitely not. I don't know, maybe I'm just like, I'm just too suspect. Like, I'm always looking for like, who's about to fuck me over and so I'm gonna like, I'm gonna get in there and protect myself before. I think that it's actually a really good lesson because fame, money, success, it changes people.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  It changes.

• 23:00Emma Grede?

  There's nothing strange about that. Like, it changes people for the better very often. It changes you for the worse. And I think when money comes into a situation, all it does is amplify who you really are. If you're the best, most kindest, most generous person in the world, you're gonna be better, kinder, more generous. You're an asshole, you're gonna become more of an asshole.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Mic drop. That I like have never thought about it that way and it's incredibly true.

• 23:24Emma Grede?

  I think it's true. Here's the thing that I really want to ask you. Because at the end of this, we are talking about two lovely girls that started something mesmerizing. And I wonder if you could ever see yourself being friends with Alex again.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  If she had a, if she was able to come to me and take ownership, accountability, and there was some personality change, yes. If we could have an honest conversation about what happened, yes. Do I think she's capable of that? Not really, but I could be wrong.

• 24:12Emma Grede?

  Fair. Thanks for answering. I wondered.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  In the book, I take full accountability. You know, I talk about myself and all my weaknesses and substance abuse and blah, blah, blah. If she could meet me there, yes. Cause I don't, I don't walk around with anger. That doesn't serve me, but.

• 24:37Emma Grede?

  I think it's really good that you've got to that place because you're young and your whole life is in front of you. And you did have tremendous chemistry with this person that you can't manufacture. So there was obviously something good there and you never know, you never know what the future holds. All right, we're gonna get into the negotiation. So I'm gonna walk through it as I understand it and then you can just make me right the whole way through. Because there's a lot of moving pieces and I need to know where I've got it right and where I didn't. Okay, show takes off, insane, incredible, people are going nuts. You're making about a hundred thousand dollars a year, but the business is actually generating millions. Meaning your ad revenue on that podcast was making way more money than the reality that you or Alex were actually seeing at the time.

• 25:22Emma Grede?

  You start getting opportunities to do a lot of other things. So just like you say, you're the hot chicks on the block. You've got live shows, books, alcohol deals, other brand deals and businesses and all sorts of stuff coming your way. But because you don't own the IP, you can't go out and pursue them on your own. You have to do everything via Barstool. Is that correct?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Yes, and we're also employees of Barstool.

• 25:46Emma Grede?

  So does that mean there was another set of obligations that you had to do on their behalf?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:50Emma Grede?

  As well as your own show?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  And we couldn't, yeah, we couldn't just go do those things without the Barstool.

• 25:56Emma Grede?

  So is that where you decided we need to go into another negotiation? Something's gotta change.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Uh, that and yes, yeah.

• 26:06Emma Grede?

  Got it. All right, so then you go back to Barstool and you say, we want substantially more money. You ask for a million bucks each.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:15Emma Grede?

  And you also want some participation in the revenue that you're generating?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:19Emma Grede?

  You want more control over the business and basically you're just looking for more ownership. You're like, we're making a ton of money, we wanna see more of our money.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:27Emma Grede?

  Nothing strange, weird, basically somebody negotiating on their own behalf.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  And we had so surpassed the, the original agreement, you know? And when we signed it, they were expecting like, I'll never forget when, and I write about this in the book, and there's more fun details in there, but Nardini walks in and says, my goal for you girls, a hundred thousand listeners. A month later, we're two million, so we needed to renegotiate.

• 26:59Emma Grede?

  Did you have a sense of how much money you were actually making for the company?

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Once we blew up, yes.

• 27:08Emma Grede?

  How do you, how did you know?

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Well, Dave Portnoy famously went on his live radio show and said, those girls are paying for everyone's salaries here at Barstool.

• 27:19Emma Grede?

  Oh, you must have been so happy to hear that. That's so nice.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  And that's a lot of, that's like hundreds of employees.

• 27:28Emma Grede?

  What did you, what did you do? Honestly, I would have thrown myself off the side of the building. I would have been so nuts had I heard that.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  We asked to renegotiate.

• 27:39Emma Grede?

  How elegant of you. You were like, hey, maybe we have some of our money. That's cute.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Then he also said, which is hilarious, because he's not saying this to us. People were just getting, he says it on live radio. He says, one episode is bringing in a hundred thousand dollars ad revenue.

• 27:58Emma Grede?

  Got it. So essentially, you're putting out a couple of episodes a week. You and Alex have paid for yourselves in one week of episodes, two episodes. You're like, ching, ching, we're done. Then we're gonna pay the rest of the company. Then we're gonna pay for whatever else we need to, but we're still not seeing any of that money. So understandably, you're pissed, you go back in for a renegotiation. What was the thing that you cared about most at that point? Do you remember?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  To be not just paid fairly, but to be able to create this show that was our baby and be treated fairly in money ways, creative ways, other opportunities. The list goes on and on. So it was really everything.

• 28:44Emma Grede?

  Yeah, because at that point, you're like, we're on the like crest of a wave. Like, we have so many opportunities. This has gone beyond being a podcast. You're selling like stuff, you have so many opportunities and the feeling is palpable of what you're not participating in. So you go back to, or rather, Barstool comes back with a different offer. Half a million each, it's kind of a nice big fat jump, we love it. But you're still like, that's just not enough.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:11Emma Grede?

  They also offer you a pathway, and this is where it gets really interesting and I wanna make sure I stay on track, because I went through this in the book. They also offer you a path to owning the IP at that point, which is the big golden thing that you're trying to get to.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  So normally, if I was on any other podcast, I would say, this is why I needed to write a book. Because you can't really understand the nuances and the complexity of this deal in even a long form interview. We can get close, especially with you, because you're that.

• 29:46Emma Grede?

  You try me, babe, I wanna know.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  You're that girl.

• 29:48Emma Grede?

  I wanna get down and dirty.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  But they don't offer the IP right away. Then after we stop putting out episodes, an aggressive move on our part, then they come to the table to negotiate. And then he offers the IP back at the end of one year.

• 30:12Emma Grede?

  So this is really hostile and I do think it's important for people to understand because in podcast land, you stop putting out your shows, audience behavior shifts. And even when you're the hottest thing on the planet, it's like you're losing listeners to other places. So for you guys to turn around and say, do you know what? We're going on a hiatus, that really was a bold move. You were out to make a point, to get what you deserved and you really were using all the tools in your arsenal to try to negotiate to your best ability.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Because they hadn't even negotiated. They said, we are not interested. We are not renegotiating. Your contract is up in two years from now and go take a hike. And so we're doing this for a month or more. He says, yeah, I'll talk to your attorney, tell him to bring a helmet. Literally says that in an email. They're not even talking to us. So yes, we countered with that bold move.

• 31:10Emma Grede?

  So tell me what didn't work about the deal that you were offered? Because you did get dramatically increased money. You then brought the ownership back on the table. What was it that wasn't good enough for you?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  I did come to a point where it meant more to me to stay with Alex and stay at Barstool. That's what people don't get. But I told Alex, I remember very specifically, and I have the text, I am willing to stay. We are not going to roll over on these points. And I would love to ask you this question.

• 31:51Emma Grede?

  Please.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  What does IP mean to you?

• 31:56Emma Grede?

  It's everything.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Everything?

• 31:58Emma Grede?

  Everything.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  So are we getting our full IP back if the contract reads Barstool, regardless of giving you the IP, will own all the alcohol rights in perpetuity? We will collect a percentage of merchandise in perpetuity? And there were like some other, we have to attend two Barstool events or some, there were these contingencies.

• 32:29Emma Grede?

  I mean, listen, the clear answer to this is no.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 32:32Emma Grede?

  That's just another, it's just another part of the negotiation. So what you were, what was happening there is that you, your IP was being leveraged against you. It's like, you can have this, but we're going to need this piece of it. And who knows at the time, like what the biggest categories would be and were for you. But it seems to me like two, you know, like.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, two, two.

• 32:52Emma Grede?

  Alcohol.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Two woo-hoo girls.

• 32:55Emma Grede?

  It feels like alcohol be a pretty big part of that. And the word perpetuity, whenever anyone sees that in any contract ever, you really need to stop. You just need to stop.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  You need to stop.

• 33:05Emma Grede?

  You need to stop and go perpetuity. There's a lot of syllables in that for a reason, because you need to stop and you need to take it in. Because you don't ever want to be given anything in perpetuity. The very fact that you signed a two-year contract in the first place, when you're just starting out, is kind of enough, right? It's like even that, but again, when you're increasing listeners like that, a 24-month contract, when things are happening week to week, month to month, episode to episode for you, was a very long time. So perpetuity is just a no. So what did you still want out of the deal? Like, what would have been okay for you that you would have said, I'm ready to sign?

• 33:43Speaker 02

  I wanted the IP, as I understood IP, which is complete ownership of the brand. That includes alcohol. That includes merchandise. There's no strings attached. We're not paying money out to Barstool in perpetuity. That was kind of my thing. I also understood that Barstool is in the midst of a negotiation. Penn National Gaming is about to buy them. Who is their biggest podcast? Who is making the company the absolute most money? We are. So I understood that leverage as well.

• 34:28Emma Grede?

  So you believe that you were kind of intrinsic to that negotiation being able to happen?

• 34:34Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 34:40Emma Grede?

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• 35:24Emma Grede?

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• 36:09Emma Grede?

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• 36:50Emma Grede?

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• 37:04Emma Grede?

  Did you believe that there was any chance that you could just lose the whole thing? Put yourself back in that situation and, and, and take me inside it. Like, were you sitting here thinking, oh my goodness, I'm going to leave with nothing here?

• 37:18Speaker 02

  No, because my worst-case scenario was the two of us leave and start something on our own.

• 37:27Emma Grede?

  What was making you feel so confident though, Sophia? Like, what was making you feel confident? A, that you could keep pushing, B, that you had leverage, but also C, that you and Alex were so aligned?

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Well, everything that I pushed for eventually was like, okay, fine.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  So that was happening.

• 37:51Emma Grede?

  So you were seeing success in your negotiation.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then my friendship with Alex, I never in a million years thought that something like that could happen.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  You're like, I would have thought about it.

• 38:11Emma Grede?

  It's easy in hindsight to sit here and be like, I'd have done this, I'd have done that. My predisposition in life is that I'm going to get fucked over. Now, that's my own hangups and that's my own childhood. I would have been less trustworthy that this incredible valuable thing that I had built.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 38:30Emma Grede?

  That other people weren't going to fight as hard as I was fighting. And it seems to me that you didn't understand the cracks that were appearing in the relationship between the two of you, right?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  I think where it's different is you and your friend and business partner, was she the face of the business or no?

• 38:54Emma Grede?

  I mean, it's such a different business, right? Because we weren't like famous chicks like you. We were like corporate girlies.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:00Emma Grede?

  And so in a way, she was more of the face, because she was sort of like the front agency person and I was like the back-end like brand girl. I loved to.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Taping packages.

• 39:12Emma Grede?

  Like that, but do you know what I mean? Like, I was the, the more behind the scenes, let's like make this thing and this company profitable and make it work. And she was kind of like out on the scene, making the deals happen. But if some, if I were in your position, it's like getting the IP, getting to a point where I could actually do a deal. And this is where I think like, and I want to make sure that we get this right, because the story on the outside is very much like, you could have had everything you wanted, had you had just been patient, seen the contract through, it was coming to you a year down the line.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  I agree. But I agree.

• 39:46Emma Grede?

  Was, was that what was happening?

• 39:48Speaker 02

  We were still negotiating and something shifted. And this is the part where I was voicing and speaking up for myself and was now incredibly active in the negotiation. And she was starting to see that she was losing 100% control. I'm voicing my opinion. I am 50% of this show in terms of it's two co-hosts that people look at every day. Whether I, you know, the value of each of us is 50/50, that's debatable.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  But I wasn't totally naive and it did cross my mind that she would maybe fuck me over. But then, similar to what you're saying, you, because of your upbringing, you have always been of the mind, someone is going to try to fuck me somewhere. I have the same mind, but specific to men. You know, women were safety my entire life. And that's very clear in the book, my upbringing. So could you say I had a blind spot in, you know, my female friendships and relationships?

• 41:15Speaker 02

  I, maybe, but when we start talking about marriage, I, she was going to do it. She was going to do it at some point, whether it was then or a little bit later, it was going to go down. And she was going to cut me out.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  You can disagree, but.

• 41:32Emma Grede?

  No, I'm not actually gonna disagree. I can see how, given your background and given that women have been safety for you in your life, that you didn't see that coming. I can understand that. Yeah. And I think a lot of people would look at their friend and be like, well, I wouldn't do that. So I don't expect that it would happen to me. I mean, like I said, business changes things.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:56Emma Grede?

  It really does.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  It does, especially being two girls and, you know, we're the faces of this thing. There's a blonde and a brunette. It's like we are constantly being compared. Twenty four seven. So the environment is already a bit shaky.

• 42:14Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  A bit. It's hard to not compare.

• 42:19Emma Grede?

  Sophia, when you look back, what would you have done differently?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Signed a partnership agreement. That's it. Literally, that's the only thing that I would have done differently. I don't blame myself for getting into business with someone who wasn't who you thought they were.

• 42:45Emma Grede?

  Is there any part of you that just wishes you'd have taken the deal that was handed to you?

• 42:50Speaker 02

  I mean, I I actually was actively trying to. That's what gets missed. I did not walk away.

• 43:00Emma Grede?

  Say more.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  I said, let's not roll over on these points. Let's push hard. Every time we pushed, they've eventually done it. We were actively negotiating when I got the call from Dave. And Alex and I had stopped talking because I found out

• 43:24Speaker 02

  all of these things that she was doing behind my back. But I didn't leave the show. I didn't leave Barstool. I was like, ready to stay at Barstool, genuinely.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  That's what people are like, wait, what?

• 43:40Emma Grede?

  Yeah, well, that like, that's what I'm saying in my head, like, wait, wait, what? Like, literally, what?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  We were actively negotiating.

• 43:51Emma Grede?

  So how?

• 43:54Emma Grede?

  How did you get pushed? That's what I wanna understand. Like, by the end, this is not really happening in a vacuum anymore. The personal relationship between you and Alex is really deteriorating. Trust is completely broken down. You wrote in your book that you were hurt, that you were disappointed, you were prideful, you were stubborn even during that period. I wanna understand, before we get into the nuts and bolts of it, like, how much were you letting your emotions and your personal feelings actually affect your business decisions?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Not in the negotiations with Barstool, not, I didn't let them affect those decisions. Those were like strictly understanding what, how far we could push it. And Alex had a pattern also of rushing into deals and signing, right? We meet with C A A, that they need to be our agents. And I'm like, wait, why?

• 44:54Emma Grede?

  Because your instinct was what?

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Let's, my instinct was, let's, I wanna know the reason why. Like, let's actually weigh the pros and cons. We don't need to jump at the bit at the first agency that wants us.

• 45:07Emma Grede?

  Go see W M E, let's go see U T A.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Down the block.

• 45:10Emma Grede?

  Exactly.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  They flew us to Los Angeles. Let's walk down the street and go to the next one. But my emotions were there when I found out about the betrayal. This book is about the business, but the book is ultimately about betrayal and a friendship breakup. I don't know if you've ever had a friendship breakup. It sounds like you. And have you gone into business with any friends and it didn't work out?

• 45:43Emma Grede?

  No, I haven't. And I really, I really hope it never does. I've only ever broken up with one friend. Um, like in a, in a serious breakup, like, cause I did the thing that, you know, you should never do. I told her that her boyfriend was cheating on her and she. Now she went, I didn't know. I was young. I was stupid. You know, I was like, he's cheating. And she was like, no, he's not. I was like, no, no, he definitely is. So that's my only breakup. That's a whole different story. But I get it, right? When, when you love somebody and you trust them and what you're, again, I think that we have to be, remember what you were going through, because this was like a hyper, like, individualized situation where you have like this crazy amount of pressure.

• 46:25Emma Grede?

  And also, let's just be honest, like, you're becoming famous. Like, that does weird things to people too. Like, fame is the kind of unknown layer of all of this. Cause I understand the business part of it, the money part of it. But I think when you add on that there was this like, you know, craziness that was going on around you and this fame that was starting to happen, like, that does add a layer of complexity that I think is hard for people to understand. Um, and and maybe hard even for you at the time to understand, because it was happening to you, but it was happening to her and it was happening to the two of you together. And I think that there naturally was an element of competition in there that perhaps you've peeled back the layers a little bit on now that you've had some time to process that was like making things a little more lopsided.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  I think during the negotiations, we did have to start in private, not to each other. Think to ourselves, who is adding value and how much?

• 47:25Emma Grede?

  Take me through that conversation in your head. Like, how did that go for you?

• 47:28Speaker 02

  If you ask anybody, they're gonna tell you. Sophia was the talent. Alex was the marketing, social media, able to package something person. Those are two different skills.

• 47:48Emma Grede?

  When you say talent, though, because again, and I just think having seen Alex, the success that she's had, I look at her now, it's like, I think she's talented. She's a great interviewer. She clearly has been good at packaging herself and becoming a great podcaster. Like, break that down for me a little bit, cause I think a lot of people would be like, what are you talking about? That girl's talent.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Call Her Daddy, once I left, was no longer Call Her Daddy. Anyone who listened to it, any O G listeners, point blank, it became a celebrity interview type show. Good interviewer, you know, I was gonna say debatable, but.

• 48:26Emma Grede?

  Well, tell us how you really feel.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  But there is some, there is talent in that. It was my stories, okay? Unwell, I popularized the word unwell through a story I told about, this is in the book, being, you know, on Molly at Coachella and sending an email to Morgan Stanley, I'm not gonna make it in today, I'm unwell. I have the email. I was telling the stories. I came into the podcast already having lived a very full life, as you know, in the book.

• 49:07Emma Grede?

  All right, don't judge her. We've all done it, guys. Come on, come on.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  So I had the stories, I had the humor, and I also had an ear for podcasting. Because it's what I would consume for eight hours a day.

• 49:24Emma Grede?

  So you bought the distinction. What you're saying is that like, it's like that unique distinction that you had in the marketplace, that sort of like girl banter, the honesty, the kind of explicit sexuality, the talking in the way that you guys kind of popularized, like, exactly. It's like that thread of what that show was all about and became famous for and became the blueprint for.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:48Emma Grede?

  That came from you.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Am I saying she's not talented? She is incredibly talented. She knows, she knows how to, you know, have a presence in front of a camera, which is a huge talent. She is great at P R marketing things. She's great at landing a headline.

• 50:15Emma Grede?

  She's also a pretty good negotiator, no?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  I don't know how good she is at business. I negotiated that deal. She was ready to sign it months before, for, on way lesser terms.

• 50:30Emma Grede?

  But, but you got iced out of the agreement. And I think that is the important takeaway here, right?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Yes. Dave said to me, I would rather it be the two of you, but she's the one that came to me and is being aggressive and she wants to sign the deal now. And I said, okay. Can we do it together? And fuck it, I'll sign the deal. And he said, you have to work that out between the two of you.

• 50:59Emma Grede?

  Then what?

• 51:00Speaker 02

  I text her and call her and she leaves me unread repeatedly. And I can't get a hold of her. I tried to get a hold of her through Erica Nardini. I tried to ask her agents. She won't speak to me.

• 51:18Emma Grede?

  Is that where your relationship was at that point, that you were having to go through agents?

• 51:22Speaker 02

  No, we weren't talking, but we were actively negotiating. So I reach out to her and I sa- I say, on my phone.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  This is such an incredible thing we built. Let's not do this. She didn't respond. I sent her this safe word that we came up with. Should negotiations go bad? She didn't respond.

• 51:53Emma Grede?

  You had a safe word, should negotiations go bad?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. It was the name of a bar that we like. I can't remember. We like celebrated something at this dive bar called Crompton somewhere.

• 52:05Emma Grede?

  What were you envisaging when you had a safe word in case the negotiations go bad?

• 52:10Speaker 02

  We weren't.

• 52:11Emma Grede?

  This is the most girly shit I've ever heard in my life. Like, what is it like, fucking pineapple? Like shit's hit the fan. We're about to lose our whole thing. Like, what is happening here?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  We are literally young girls that are, that are literally.

• 52:26Emma Grede?

  I'm gonna write a very long newsletter this week, people.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Very cringe.

• 52:30Emma Grede?

  With all my lawyers, my countless lawyer details and the need for never having a safe word. There are other reasons to have safe words.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 52:42Emma Grede?

  Many, many different shows. That's your show.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  That's a different show, but I couldn't get a hold of her. And next thing I know, she's put out a YouTube video. Mind you, I'm still thinking we can save this. I'm like, she's just mad she's gonna get back to me.

• 53:03Emma Grede?

  And in your heart of hearts, you really believe that?

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Yes. And Dave said it himself. He said, we have brought in a brunette and a blonde to try to reenact this. No one works. I went around the office, asked people who's the favorite. It's split down the middle. You need to work it out between the two of you. I can't force it. So I reach out. Alex is mad. She's gonna get back to me eventually. And then she drops this YouTube video. That was game over.

• 53:40Emma Grede?

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• 54:23Emma Grede?

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• 55:05Emma Grede?

  Not necessarily the biggest gift or the most obvious gift, but the thing that makes her feel a little like you've thought about what she would use, what she would wear or enjoy. That's why I like starting with the person, not the category. For the woman who loves beauty, Macy's has gifts that feel fun but still useful. Like a lip gloss set, a beautiful holiday beauty box, or something she can throw in her bag and use all season. For the person who loves fashion, I would look at accessories first. A Coach Kiss Lock Shoulder Handbag is the kind of piece that can make a simple outfit feel more special. Sunglasses, a great sweater or a faux fur jacket can do exactly the same thing. And jewelry is always a strong place to go when you want the gift to feel more personal.

• 55:50Emma Grede?

  A birthstone necklace, a classic watch, a pearl pendant or a tennis bracelet all feel thoughtful because they're pieces she can keep coming back to. Now, the nice thing about Macy's Gift Guide is that it helps you narrow it down. You can shop by the kind of woman that you're buying for instead of scrolling endlessly and hoping that something feels right. That is what makes the gift feel handpicked. It matches who she is, how she dresses and what she will actually reach for. Check out the Macy's Online Gift Guide for even more ideas.

• 56:25Emma Grede?

  What did you do at that point when you understood, okay, I'm not going to be able to reconcile with Alex in the way that I expected? And I'm not getting the answers that I need from Barstool. If I were you in that situation, it's lawyers, like, I'm like, shut it down. I will sue you if you go ahead with this. Speak to, like, this is now a legal situation. What did you do?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  I spoke to my lawyer. I didn't own the IP. This was what my attorney said. It is gonna be very difficult for you to win this, whether it's on a defamation track or AIP track because your story's voice image is on the first hundred episodes. He said, it's gonna be a long-winded, will take years and a shit ton of money if you wanna go down that route. And I don't advise you to do that.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  By that point, she had put out the YouTube video that made it very clear. She, she put the narrative out, right? The whole, in that video. And I was getting assassinated online. And I thought, do I wanna drag this and be in the, you know, court of public opinion? When I have thousands and thousands of people telling me to go kill myself? No, I'm good. I don't think that my attorney understood podcasting, okay?

• 58:11Emma Grede?

  I don't think your attorney understood life.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  But he.

• 58:15Emma Grede?

  Your attorney didn't understand business. They certainly didn't understand your rights. I have been in a situation plenty of times in my career where I've been given bad advice. Unless the stakes are really, really high, you take the advice you're given if it's coming from somebody that's trusted. You employ lawyers, advisors, consultants for a reason to advise you in, in areas that you don't properly understand.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:39Emma Grede?

  And there's no way that at your age, with that experience, you would understand like where your rights stood.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  I don't even think that my attorney's agents or publicist understood. This is an act of cancellation.

• 58:53Emma Grede?

  And listen, and I think again, that adds a lens to all of this that makes it much more problematic. People are more worried about being in the court of public opinion. But this is a simple issue. And to me, had you had taken a second opinion from a lawyer, you would have had something very clearly to fight about. Now, listen, you can shoulda, coulda, woulda this all you want. The point is you had horrible, horrible representation. And you were beaten down at that point because what happened is you became the villain in a story that millions of people were watching.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:27Emma Grede?

  And I'm curious to understand what that period actually taught you about what happens when you lose control of your own story and your own reputation? Like, what, what, what have you learned from that moment?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  You know what's best and listen to your gut. Just because someone has years of legal, just because there's a publicist who has represented these huge celebrities, they don't necessarily know better than you.

• 1:00:06Emma Grede?

  I think it's really good advice. And, and you know, we talk about gut so much, especially I think women in business talk about gut all the time. You have to actually understand what your gut instinct is because it's, it's your collective experience, right? Like, gut isn't like some weird chemical that like bubbles around. It's like all the things that have happened to you, all of your collective experiences. And out of that comes like intuition. And so you know, you actually do have the answer. When, when, when I see people throw their hands up, I'm like, I just don't know what to do. I just didn't know what next. It's like, no, you, you usually have an incline. You usually have a feeling, are you scared?

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Emma Grede?

  Is there a lot of fear attached? Was there other dynamics in this situation that were making the, the hard things even harder? Absolutely. But, I mean, yeah, you, you were very poorly advised at that point, I have no doubt.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Emma Grede?

  But I, but I like your advice for other people listening because I do think there is something to listening to your own intuition in that moment.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  I will say, I, looking back, think staying silent was the smartest fucking thing that I did. Because six years later, I'm putting out this book. This is my IP. Okay. There's, I can't talk about it, but you know, maybe there's a memoir adaptation. This book is meant to be a movie. It has all of the elements and I own that.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  So do I regret not, you know, being as vocal or suing?

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I actually feel, if I look at everything, like, I don't want it to be a zero sum game, exactly what you were saying. I don't think someone has to be a winner and a loser. But I don't, I feel like I won. That doesn't mean she lost, but I feel like I won.

• 1:02:21Emma Grede?

  After everything that happened, have you learned to trust yourself again?

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Beyond, beyond. I'm so happy you said that because boy, do I massively.

• 1:02:35Emma Grede?

  I'm really happy to hear that.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:37Emma Grede?

  You should because listen, when you go through anything like this, and in fact, all of us are gonna go through failure. I've been through so many companies that have just like failed, things that I thought were gonna be like magical and mesmerizing. I've plowed my own money into them and they've just fallen flat on the ground or I've been embarrassed. It's like all of that is your collective experience.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Emma Grede?

  It's like you've had by any stretch of the imagination, like a really impressive career for someone your age. This is all just part of that.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:09Emma Grede?

  It's actually gonna add to your experience and you're not gonna have this type of situation again.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  It's already shown up in like the past month, you know, negotiating life rights. Everything I've done, knowing I'm go, I'm back in the public, you know, Vanity Fair just wrote about me. The Times, like I'm back in this place that was really scary to be and now I'm going into it. I'm ready. Bring it on. I have covered my bases. Let's go.

• 1:03:45Emma Grede?

  Yeah. And when you know better, you do better.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:48Emma Grede?

  It's that simple. Obviously, the thing that you helped launch went on to become tremendously successful. How do you stop measuring your own life against that success?

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Time, time. It's like when you go through a breakup, the only thing that's gonna heal it is enough time. You know, there's no magic fix. There's no get over someone by getting under someone else. That shit's not real. You know, it's time.

• 1:04:21Emma Grede?

  Thanks for being honest because it does, it just takes time.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  And I've, I've tried, you know, to get under someone and it didn't fix it. So.

• 1:04:31Emma Grede?

  Fair enough. Fair enough. Tell me, what does your life look like now? Like, what's just a normal day for Sophia and what are you, what are you excited about now?

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  I'm excited to pursue these creative projects that are

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  actually I feel aligned with. I think I, I was working from a place of not alignment. I was in a, trying to compete and now it's, I'm married.

• 1:05:02Emma Grede?

  Congratulations.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Thank you. I love, I love that ring. How obnoxious can we be?

• 1:05:09Emma Grede?

  Just so obnoxious.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  I'm married. I want to, whether I do a movie, whether I start a cooking show, I don't know how to cook. I wanna be Ina Garten. Um.

• 1:05:24Emma Grede?

  My God, I saw her yesterday and I fangirled like, like an actual crazy person, but yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  She's coming out with a podcast.

• 1:05:30Emma Grede?

  I think she is. You need to go on.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  I need to go on.

• 1:05:34Emma Grede?

  That's your, that's it. I've got to teach you. Now there's a show.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  I wanna write a show about my stalker.

• 1:05:41Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  I'm just gonna throw that in there.

• 1:05:43Emma Grede?

  You have a stalker?

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  But he's so charismatic. But he's so charismatic.

• 1:05:49Emma Grede?

  I have so many things I need to teach you. Like what is happening? You can't have a charismatic stalker. The two things can't go in the same sentence.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  If I played you one of his audio messages, you would say otherwise. I'll write another book. I'm gonna, I'm gonna spend a lot of my time in Europe where my husband is.

• 1:06:09Emma Grede?

  Gorge, that I love for you. So chic, very pre-kids.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  Yes, and.

• 1:06:14Emma Grede?

  Marriage situation. Love.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  I wanna have kids.

• 1:06:18Emma Grede?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  That's gonna be our next little.

• 1:06:20Emma Grede?

  Wow, it feels very domesticated, this next part of your life. It's like cooking and kids.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:26Emma Grede?

  Heaven, absolute heaven.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Domesticated, but like we're on set.

• 1:06:31Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Directing, producing.

• 1:06:33Emma Grede?

  Yes. I see this whole thing. Yeah. I, I've got it down. Like honestly, no, no questions, no arguments. I see the whole thing coming together right before my very eyes. Because you have a crazy fan base. When your fans reach out to you, what do they say? Like what do they, what do they tell you?

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  They are loyal on a level that only someone who has been through a public scandal and cancellation and these people stayed with me, that kind of fans, like loyal beyond. And I love them and I can't wait to meet them.

• 1:07:12Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's so nice. Well, you're gonna have a huge moment with this book to get back, see your fans, have that moment. You said, and listen, just like around the book, because I do think that you're gonna have like such a moment around this book. You needed time and you needed distance to be able to park your ego and, and tell this story with less ego. What has time allowed you to see and understand more clearly?

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  I found myself in various moments, writing, when I was writing the book, drafting it,

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  wanting to prove people wrong. There were moments where I said, Sophia, you have to tell it as radically honest as possible. And what has it taught me to remove the ego piece? It's taught me to be okay with who I am and not hang my hat on external things. You know, I had reputation, career, uh, boyfriend, like everything ripped away from me overnight. And so now going into business or anything, it's,

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  how does Sophia feel at the end of the day? Should everything blow up? Is she gonna be okay?

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  That's what I learned.

• 1:08:41Emma Grede?

  Sophia, what do you imagine as you launch this book? You must have anticipated the rollout.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:51Emma Grede?

  The response, the rhetoric, the commentary.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Emma Grede?

  How are you thinking about all of that? And what do you know to be true of yourself as you kind of step into this sort of like second wave, if you like?

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  I think that it's gonna be incredibly positive. I think this is going to resonate with people on a very intense scale because I'm very raw in the book. But also it worries me like, could there be a, a deployment of thousands of bots that like spam and put negative comments? I mean, that's how people win campaigns these days. I don't know. I know, but I just took it somewhere crazy, but.

• 1:09:45Emma Grede?

  But that's what goes through your mind?

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  That's now how my brain works.

• 1:09:48Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  Going through what I've gone through is like, think about the absolute craziest worst thing and how are we gonna be protected? But I don't think I know people are going to love this book and that is what I've actually been wanting to say this whole time is I wanna be respected as a writer and as a storyteller and as an author. Because that is what I'm good at.

• 1:10:24Emma Grede?

  Well, you know, you wrote this book yourself without Ghost Rider.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Without.

• 1:10:29Emma Grede?

  Um, I ate it up. It was like an easy breezy, like super juicy read.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:36Emma Grede?

  I have to tell you, and I think that, you know, I'm so grateful that you would come on today in the same way that I thought there was a lot of vulnerability in the book and a lot for people to take away and learn. I'm really grateful that you've come here and been honest and told your truth and, um, been really vulnerable because I think it's really, really difficult. And I think it is pretty amazing to see someone after the fact, sit down and say, here's the stuff that, you know, I could have done better. This is, this is the reality of what happened. And that's impressive.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  And I'm very grateful for you to challenge me. Like I really respect that. So go order Daddy Issues, sophiafranklin.com.

• 1:11:23Emma Grede?

  There you go.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Or in any bookstore.

• 1:11:25Emma Grede?

  In any bookstore. Listen, people are gonna have a smash. I have absolutely no doubt. All we've got left is rapid fire. All right, my darling, what is your best dating advice?

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Have fun and don't take it too seriously. Date one.

• 1:11:41Emma Grede?

  Hmm. Hmm. I love that. How would you define yourself in three words?

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  Witty, charming, I hate this word, quirky.

• 1:11:54Emma Grede?

  Quirky?

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  I hate it. Like I really hate it, but I think I can sometimes land in that. But I'm also a basic bitch. Sorry, I had to do four or five words.

• 1:12:04Emma Grede?

  That's all right. That's what a basic bitch would do. There you go.

• 1:12:09Emma Grede?

  Um, who's one celebrity you'd switch lives with for a week?

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Oh, like anyone that's currently on Broadway.

• 1:12:20Emma Grede?

  Oh, on Broadway?

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:12:23Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  Like I'm, I'm that girl.

• 1:12:26Emma Grede?

  Okay.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Maybe Nicole Kidman.

• 1:12:29Emma Grede?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Heaven.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Heaven.

• 1:12:32Emma Grede?

  Heaven. Um, a career you think you'd be good at if you weren't doing this?

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Screenplay.

• 1:12:39Emma Grede?

  Oh, I feel theater in one's future.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  I wanna change my answer. Interior design.

• 1:12:47Emma Grede?

  Interior design?

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  I'm really, and every, I feel like every woman says that, right?

• 1:12:51Emma Grede?

  They don't. No, no, no, no.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  You don't think, I think.

• 1:12:54Emma Grede?

  No. Listen, you can do what you want. I've now got you down as like the new barefoot contestant. Interior design's much more aligned with where I was going. Then you went all jazz hands on me.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  I don't know why, why did I go jazz hands and why did I go like, you know, easy bake oven? It's interior design.

• 1:13:10Emma Grede?

  Woman of many, many talents and ambitions.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  But interior design is.

• 1:13:14Emma Grede?

  Okay, I'll take that. Is there a book that's changed your perspective?

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say a childhood book. The Missing Piece meets the Big O by Shel Silverstein. Changed my perspective and made me incredibly independent.

• 1:13:31Emma Grede?

  What do you still aspire to be or to become?

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Hmm. To be or to become a mom and a woman able to be multifaceted because I don't think we are allowed to be that.

• 1:13:52Emma Grede?

  Great answer. Sophia, thank you so much.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:13:58Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:14:40Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Josefina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mikul, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry and Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.