Pod Insights Aspire with Emma Grede Buiding Our Tolerance for Frustration (Dr. Becky) About this episode Why do ambitious moms feel like they’re failing even when everything looks successful from the outside?
In this enlightening episode of Aspire, Emma sits down with parenting expert and #1 New York Times Bestselling Author, Dr. Becky Kennedy for a conversation about motherhood, ambition, guilt, and what kids actually need from us.
Dr. Becky breaks down why working moms feel stretched so thin, how culture has conditioned women to absorb everyone else’s emotions, and why so many parents secretly believe they’re “not enough.” She explains why emotion regulation is the most important skill we can model for our children, why discomfort is essential for kids’ growth, and how “mom guilt” has been completely misunderstood.
Together, Emma and Dr. Becky dive into:
Why ambitious moms feel like they’re winning at work but failing at home
The real definition of guilt — and why most “mom guilt” isn’t guilt at all
How convenience culture has robbed kids of frustration tolerance
Why kids don’t need selfless martyrs — they need sturdy leaders
The danger of absorbing everyone else’s emotions
How to stop judging your parenting by your child’s behavior
What to do when you’re overwhelmed, burnt out, or in the spiral
How parents can learn, grow, and lead with confidence
This is the episode every working parent needs to watch. You are not failing, and Dr. Becky explains exactly why.
Did this conversation hit home for you? Drop a comment below. We’d love to hear your thoughts and your own experiences with ambition and mom guilt. Don't forget to subscribe to the channel so you never miss an episode of Aspire with Emma Grede.
Transcript 13,197 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:09 Emma Grede? You know that feeling when work is going great, but at home you're thinking, "Am I messing this up?" I feel that way more than I'd like to admit. But talking to parenting expert and New York Times bestselling author Dr. Becky Kennedy shifted something major for me. And that's when mum guilt hits you and suddenly every decision feels like the wrong one. If you're tired of feeling torn between success and motherhood, you need to stay tuned because Dr. Becky gives us the tools to stop choosing and start leading.
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1:36 Speaker 02 Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Personal finance can feel like a pop quiz you didn't study for. This podcast is your study guide. On NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, you'll hear from trusted journalists who explain the why behind major financial decisions. You'll get research-backed insights and clear pros and cons, whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.
2:10 Emma Grede? Dr. Becky, I am so happy to have you on Aspire. You are one of my dream guests for the reason that I have like 500 questions that I need to ask you. So I'm gonna like jump straight into it because I really wanted to frame our conversation around something that I feel terrorizes me, which is this idea of mum guilt. And I feel for so many women, especially all the women that I know, so much of what separates them from being able to be truly successful is how they get caught up in mum guilt. And so as the parenting expert, a mum of three, I'm assuming very ambitious woman, certainly very successful businesswoman. My first question to you is really about what kids need, like what do kids actually
2:54 Emma Grede? need from their parents versus what the culture and society tells us that they need?
2:59 Speaker 03 Such a good place to start. So first of all, so excited to be here. We're gonna get into all the things. I mean, I don't know if I can answer that in like one sentence, but in general, our kids in their early years, through their relationship with us, they are learning all the important things about how to operate and be in the world. So what does that mean? They are learning what emotions are safe and manageable and what emotions are dangerous or quote, too much. They are learning, what should I expect from other people? When you get upset with people, can you get through that? Are you allowed to be mad at people you love?
3:41 Speaker 03 You're also learning in your earliest relationships about confidence, about what it means to depend on people and be independent of those people, right? A lot of dualities. And so I think we focus a lot maybe on, I don't know, how much time do I have with my kids exactly? Or, right, was I at this one soccer game? And then, and I know I do this to myself too, we tell ourselves these huge stories based on one moment or one day or one week that feels out of balance. But if you zoom out, what kids really need is they need to feel Seen they need to feel safe, which does not mean comfortable. And I think that's really important because we've
4:24 Emma Grede? That one writing that down for later.
4:25 Speaker 03 We've really confused those two things in 2025. We do not want our kids to be happy all the time. And they really need to feel like their parent connects to them and believes what's going on for them. And also believes in them, believes in their capability, believes that they can do hard things. And then in a way, as a parent, you're kind of that coach who sets them up for everything that's ahead of them.
4:50 Emma Grede? So why do we constantly feel like we're failing? What what has given us the measure and why are we so out of whack? If that's truly what our kids require from us, why are we being counted in and thinking, I was only with them for 30 minutes today versus a regular day. Or like, what what's happened in society to make us feel like we are constantly falling behind?
5:10 Speaker 03 Well, I think you're also talking about something unrelated to parenting that can happen with women is why do we just feel like we're never enough? And if that's something that we have felt for a lot of our years, if I've always gone around the world wondering, how can I, you know, prove myself? What is the marker in the external world that I am doing a good job? I need constant praise. I need to constantly ignore my own needs to take care of everyone else's needs. We're going to take that into motherhood. That doesn't start when we become a mother. So now we take that into motherhood and the surest way to feel awful about yourself as a mom is to judge yourself by your kids' behavior. And we do that all the time. My kid is a tantrum. That means I'm a bad mom. My kid is upset that I'm going on a business trip. That means I'm a bad mom.
5:55 Speaker 03 My kid was left out from that birthday party and they're so upset. That means I'm a bad mom. All of those are actually the exact same thing. I'm using my kid's behavior as a way of judging my parenting. And I'm sure you know about this outside of parenting too. The most empowering thing you can do as a person, definitely as a woman, is to learn to gaze in and get to know what's inside yourself before you gaze out to rely on, okay, well, what moments happened with my kid today that felt? Good. Where I felt present, where I wasn't on my phone, where I listened. I actually think what can happen as you shift from always looking out as a barometer to something more internal is you actually realize so many of the moments you thought you were failing as a mom maybe were your best moments.
6:37 Speaker 03 I was able to be there when my kid has a tantrum and try to stay calm. I was able to sit with them and their disappointment of not being invited to the birthday party. And instead of planning a different party for them to just, quote, "be happy", I showed them through my behavior that we could just get through things like that together.
6:53 Emma Grede? So you're talking about literally shifting the way that you think, shifting the way that you judge your own parenting?
6:59 Speaker 03 Yes. I mean, and think about it for all the things you do in the workplace. I can't imagine you're a successful business leader, CEO, by saying, "I made a certain decision and my employees are upset about it. So I'm going to change my decision." You wouldn't be sitting there, would you?
7:14 Emma Grede? I don't think so.
7:15 Speaker 03 Right. It's kind of like a pilot saying, "I need to make an emergency landing."
7:19 Emma Grede? You speak a lot about the similarities in leadership and parenting, and I love that. Can you just talk a little bit more about it? I read a LinkedIn post that you wrote and I was like, "She is so right here."
7:30 Speaker 03 Well, first of all, being a parent is being a leader. You're the leader of your family system. So just thinking about it that way, it should make sense that leadership principles in the workplace or on the sports field should apply to the family. So number one, anyone listening, if you're a parent, you are a leader. Number two, the best leaders I know are able to do two seemingly oppositional things at the same time. They're able to have a sense of their values and their beliefs and kind of their boundaries. And at the same time, they're able to recognize other people's feelings and needs. But what I mean by doing that at the same time is as a leader in the workplace,
8:12 Speaker 03 I can know I'm making a certain decision about a different direction we're going. That is going to happen. I can also know certain employees are going to be upset about that. I'm the person who has to make the decision. Those are people who are allowed to have feelings. Their feelings don't dictate my decisions. But also, my decisions shouldn't dictate their feelings. They're just both true.
8:32 Emma Grede? Is that true?
8:33 Speaker 03 That's like such a core thing for being a parent. I'm going to tell my kid, making this up, but no, we're not watching a show tonight. We have to have an early bedtime. I'm allowed to make that decision. I'm the leader. My kid doesn't say to me, Emma, ever... Mom, no, I really needed that. I really appreciate you. You're such a sturdy leader. Thank you for looking out for my health. No, you know what he does? Or she whines, complains, you're the worst one ever. My friends all watch more TV. And if I don't take that personally, if I can just see, hold on, this is actually leadership. Beautifully done. I make a decision I think matters. My kid gets upset. I can understand their feelings without changing my decision. To me, that's sturdy leadership in any area of life.
9:13 Emma Grede? And that is just the key to so much of what you talk about, right? It's like so much of this is it's okay if your kids are upset.
9:22 Speaker 03 Yes.
9:23 Emma Grede? And when did we stop allowing that? Like when, what happened in our culture?
9:28 Speaker 03 Yep.
9:28 Emma Grede? That we got so uncomfortable because I genuinely think that my mother, who is also a mother of four, really was not that sad when I was upset.
9:38 Speaker 03 No.
9:38 Emma Grede? She was like, you know what? Like it is what it is. I'm the mom. This is what we're doing. Where did that shift? And like, why are we here now?
9:46 Speaker 03 So I think there's a couple of things that happened at the same time culturally. So we talk a lot about phones and media and social media and what that's been like for kids. And even when they're younger, maybe it's not social media, but just all their time on screens. Right? And I think what we haven't talked enough about is how our relationship with our phones has completely changed our ability to tolerate our kids' upset feelings. Because if I think about your mom, Emma, you're having a tantrum, you're upset because you couldn't have a sleepover.
10:17 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
10:18 Speaker 03 If I think about what's happening, you know, if that was me or you, my mom, when I was growing up, definitely did not have all the conveniences, the quick dopamine, the quick hits that I have. We're on our phones. We have Instagram. We buy something quickly. We have something delivered right away. We have a lot more expectation of ease and convenience than our parents did. And so what does that mean? As a general rule, our kids can't learn to tolerate feelings we don't tolerate in them.
10:51 Emma Grede? Oh, my God.
10:52 Speaker 03 So if my kid is frustrated. Because of course they are, they're not allowed to have a sleepover. If I can't tolerate my kids frustration, probably because I just kind of want to get back to my Instagram scroll and move on with my convenient life. You know what I'm going to do as a parent? I am going to stop them from having a tantrum. Either I'll give in or I'll change my rule. And I say to myself, I'm doing this because I want my kid to be happy. That's not why. We don't tolerate our kids upset feelings because we can't tolerate our own upset feelings.
11:26 Emma Grede? You think we've lost the ability to be uncomfortable, full stop?
11:30 Speaker 03 I don't know, lost. I'm more hopeful than that, but I think something I think is critical is called frustration tolerance. It's our ability to tolerate the inherent frustrations of life. There are actually fewer frustrations than there used to be.
11:42 Emma Grede? Because of convenience?
11:43 Speaker 03 Because of convenience.
11:44 Emma Grede? Because when I was a kid, if you know, you needed a light bulb, the whole family was going to a hardware store, right? Like it or not, my mom was like, come on, we're all going. There was no like eh eh eh or or even the idea that you could cry about that. It was just like, we're all going because mom said, and it really wasn't a question. So you're really talking about the fact that in society, life has become so easy, so convenient. There's so much about the lack of us ever feeling uncomfortable that we can't tolerate bad behavior. And we are modeling that for our kids over and over and over again.
12:17 Speaker 03 And then the irony is it leads to more quote, bad behavior because every time our kids, when they're younger, when they see that we are as scared of their distressing emotions as they are, it leads to more intense distressing emotions over time. So then the reason they have quote, bad behavior is just because they have feelings without skills. But if every time their feelings overpower their skills, which comes out in a tantrum or I hate you, we just shut it down as quickly as possible, then of course, the next time those feelings are going to be even more intense and they still haven't learned the skills. I think, do you have Blockbuster growing up?
12:58 Emma Grede? Oh, yes.
12:59 Speaker 03 So think about what it was like when you and I were young and we wanted to watch a movie. Best case scenario is your parents had a Blockbuster member.
13:06 Emma Grede? Best case.
13:06 Speaker 03 So this is what it was like for me. Oh, mom, I really want to watch this movie tomorrow. Can we go to Blockbuster? Like it's, can we go to, can you imagine your kid? Okay. So then best case, my mom says yes, or my dad.
13:17 Emma Grede? Best case.
13:17 Speaker 03 Then we have to wait. When can we drive? Then you have traffic. You know what you're thinking the whole time in the car? They have the movie. I hope they have it. My kids have never hoped there was a movie available and they've never had. Okay, so then you get there and you know, you get to the area where they have the movie, but sometimes it's a fake out at Blockbuster. You look behind and you're like, no, they don't have it. And then you have to adjust. Okay, that is a tiny moment in a kid's life. Yeah. Think about what it's like for your and my kids when they want to watch a movie. The space between wanting and having has been completely collapsed. And the space between wanting and having is where frustration lives. That is frustration. And if what's happened in
13:59 Speaker 03 our culture is we're constantly collapsing that, at times it's nice that I don't have to go to Blockbuster. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm crossing my fingers for Blockbuster to come back. But if that's happened to our kids and to us as adults, of course, it becomes scarier and scarier to tolerate frustration because it's almost this rare bird that comes along and we haven't learned how to manage it.
14:23 Emma Grede? So what do we do? Like, do we try to manufacture frustration so our kids can learn to handle it? Like, what is the answer?
14:30 Speaker 03 It's such a fantastic question. And I think there's, quote, manufacturing frustration. And then there's trying to be more mindful of the times you're just not removing it. So, good example. I remember a couple of years ago, we were going to one of my kids soccer games. And one of my other kids said, can you please get me a playdate? Like, no offense, this kid hardly ever even plays. It's true. Very, very below average soccer player. Do you know why I think it is so important to not always, even if you can, have that extra babysitter? Because it's so important for kids to learn, the weekend is not just about your pleasure. My job isn't maximizing your personal pleasure at every moment of the weekend. Do you know why we're going to go to
15:14 Speaker 03 your sibling's soccer game? It's actually because learning that you don't always get what you want, learning to find enjoyment. And by the way, no, I'm not bringing your iPad. You're going to actually sit there and you're going to play a little game in the grass that you make up because you're bored. You only make up games in the grass because you have nothing better to do, or you're going to actually learn to watch. Fairly unexciting soccer game of six-year-olds because that's actually what you need to do to be a good person. I say that. And you know why you're going to come with me grocery shopping today instead of staying at home? Because the family needs groceries. And it's not because I'm getting you some special treat. It's just because that's what it means to be a member of this family. And going back to why we do this for long term, that's what it means to be a member of society. You have to do things
15:58 Speaker 03 that aren't just about you. So yes, I don't think it's about just inserting frustration. And some of this also, I just want to say, does have to do with wealth, because wealth, especially in this world, can buy your way out of frustration, right? And it might mean, yes, I say to parents, take the subway. You can afford an Uber, take the subway. You know why? Because on the subway, you have to do something called waiting. I say this to my kids, I'm going to teach you how to wait. It's a thing. It is a thing. I know it's very rare, but we're going to learn to wait. So that's why we're taking the bus. That's why we're taking the subway. Because my job as a parent is to help you become a truly successful adult, which means you know how to operate in the world and be a good person. And if I don't make sure you have some amount of normal life experience,
16:43 Speaker 03 which involves frustration and not always getting what you want, I'm actually not really doing my job.
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18:16 Emma Grede? You are preaching to the converted here. When you say what you say, like, it is not my job to make you happy all the time. I feel like there will be mothers and parents at home that go, but isn't it my job? Aren't I supposed to make them happy? Because when I say things like that in my very English way to my very wonderful American kids, you know, they're like, what? But like, surely it is. And I don't feel like that is the accepted prevailing knowledge that is out there. When I say something like that, it's actually not my job to usher my kids through every problem. It's actually not my job to, you know, if my kid has an argument to get in touch with the school counselor. I feel like they can figure it out. That's...
19:00 Emma Grede? Why and where are we so far from that prevailing wisdom? And how do we get back to it? Because I feel like sometimes you might just be being looked at as like mean mommy.
19:12 Speaker 03 So a couple of things about that. I think it goes back to what we started with about the importance as a parent of being able to gaze in. Now, there are ways of being mean mom that I don't recommend. Like, if I see my kids, I don't know, lunch on the table and they've forgotten it and I know they have some really long day. Is there times I'm like, hey, you forgot your lunch? Yeah, like, I don't have to purposely hide their lunch. Like, that would... And I think what it comes back to in terms of gazing in is knowing, what is my intention? I really believe kids, people in general, they feel your intention over your intervention. So the same intervention can be felt very differently. Sweetie, do you know why I'm not going to call your teacher? It's actually because I think you're really capable of having the first conversation.
19:54 Speaker 03 And if I do it right away, in some ways, I'm saying to you without saying, I don't think you can learn how to have a difficult conversation with your teacher. And I believe that you can so much that I'm not going to do it. I'm happy to talk to you about how you can start that conversation. But that is really important. That is very different than saying to my kid, I'm not calling your teacher. I'm sorry, figure it out for yourself. Like same intervention, but very different impact. So that's number one, know where your intention is coming from. Because when you know, then your kid says, you're such a mean mom. It doesn't have a magnet to stick to because you've already checked it.
20:30 Emma Grede? Yeah.
20:30 Speaker 03 Number two, we are depriving our kids from their capability. Every time you step in and quote, fix a situation your kid could learn to struggle with and figure out for themselves, you are depriving your kid of an opportunity to feel capable, which is why we see, I think, so much fragility and anxiety in 20 and 30 year olds, even teens. Because anxiety, in a way, is just a way of saying, I am scared of this situation and I don't know I can be capable in it. Well, if other people are always stealing your capability by doing things for you, no wonder you feel so anxious.
21:07 Emma Grede? You never learn.
21:07 Speaker 03 And I think just the last thing I want to say is it's interesting. When you're talking about your mom, and then we have this phrase, making our kids happy. I think we have to name it differently. None of this is about making our kid happy. The reason we intervene so quickly when our kid is upset is to make ourselves more comfortable. And as long as we keep saying it's about making our kid happy, it sounds nice. As long as we shift it to, hold on, what's going on for me when I see my kid left out? What's going on for me when my kid is, I don't know, struggling in this way? Now I might be more able to tolerate the situation out here because I'm zoned in on what's really happening.
21:41 Emma Grede? I mean, I love that you say that. And you talk so much in your work about emotional regulation and how hard that is for both parents and kids. Why is that so central to your thesis?
21:51 Speaker 03 That's everything. Emotion regulation is the single most important skill of life. It is the most important thing, hard skills, soft skills. We always have it wrong. Motion regulation, they say. Is a soft skill. It is the most important thing. You're never going to be able to use any of your business skills if you're frustrated and yelling at everyone. So that's a precondition. Emotion regulation isn't your ability to get rid of emotions. It's not your ability to exit emotions or bring them to a zero. It's your ability to manage emotions and feel like yourself and feel capable while you're having a feeling. That's what it means to regulate emotions. So many people think it means I'm not supposed to feel angry at people. I would never wish that on anyone. You want to feel angry.
22:35 Speaker 03 Anger is a feeling that tells you you're not getting something you need. Why would you want to not have that feeling? It's the most important thing. You need to know what you need. Now, that's different than dysregulated anger, which comes out as yelling. All that means is I have anger without skills. But the problem isn't the anger. The problem is the lack of skills. So emotion regulation is our ability to have an emotion and have enough skills to be able to manage that emotion and be able to make good decisions.
23:09 Emma Grede? So what do you say to parents when inevitably you do get angry? You do get overwhelmed. Like, what is the way before you spiral to like, think about that? What, I mean, again, you are teaching parents the way that they should, you know, emotionally regulate. And I just wonder like what you tell people because it happens all the time.
23:31 Speaker 03 All the time. So, so first of all, I just want to say to parents, we are, we are set up in such an awful way. Most of us weren't really taught how to manage our emotions. And now we're trying to teach our kids how to manage their emotions. That's like a basketball coach who's never learned basketball. It's a pretty hard gig, but we've been given it. So I have so much empathy for parents. And I think step one is just recognizing this is a really hard job. This is a really hard job because it involves having to learn something for myself and give something to my kids. Step one. Step two, of course, you're going to feel angry and overwhelmed. Every human in the world feels all the feelings. That's just part of what it means to be alive.
24:16 Speaker 03 So many of the issues we have around something like feeling angry, which tends to come out as maybe we completely lose it at our kid about something so small like, oh, chicken for dinner. And it's like, Exactly. Parents will often say to me, well, what do I do to not scream at my kid in that moment? To me, that's the equivalent of saying, what do I do so my car doesn't fall off a cliff? And what I'd say to that person is, why is your car always on a cliff? That's the question. Like, what do you do when your car's on a cliff? There's, I don't know, there's not that many great options, right? But if you think about that metaphor, it's like saying, okay, well, how can I recognize
24:56 Speaker 03 I'm on a road to the cliff? Because if I can recognize it earlier, I can exit that road. This is actually a big thing I talk about in our rage course called The Road to Reactivity. We focus so much on the endpoint because we think we're not supposed to feel angry, that we don't actually befriend our anger earlier and listen to it when it's at lower levels and can be much more easily managed.
25:20 Emma Grede? And if you're listening to it at lower levels, what does that look like?
25:24 Speaker 03 So it might sound like resentment at lower levels.
25:27 Emma Grede? Ah, okay.
25:29 Speaker 03 I told my partner to be home earlier, and instead I'm doing dinner and bath time alone. Or it might look like a voice, this we could really talk about, but especially for women, we've been taught to ignore, that says, I really want to go out to dinner with my friends without our kids. I want to work out. And then we tend to suppress it. Oh, no, I can't do that. I have this, I have this. If anger is the feeling that most puts us in touch with what we need and aren't getting, that voice of, I really want to work out this week, one time, is actually an early sign of anger. And if we don't listen to it, it is like a toddler. If you don't listen to an annoying toddler, they're going to escalate and escalate. And one day, they are going to scream so loud at a totally
26:14 Speaker 03 inopportune moment, like, why is chicken for dinner? Again, but it actually has nothing to do really with that moment. That moment was just the time when your anger bucket was completely filled and you had no more space. And so we have to listen earlier and start to meet our own needs earlier.
26:31 Emma Grede? It comes back to-
26:31 Speaker 03 Revolutionary thought.
26:32 Emma Grede? Right. But it's like, if you're talking to yourself, if you're understanding your own needs, you're getting there earlier.
26:37 Speaker 03 A hundred percent.
26:39 Emma Grede? Yeah.
26:39 Speaker 03 Now, so many of us women- This is really important because this is where the empathy piece comes in. One of the ways we really learned we were valuable as kids, what our role was, and therefore, how to adapt and survive, was to distance ourselves as much as possible from anything we might need internally and instead become complete experts at our external environment and notice what everyone around us needs. So what I always tell moms especially is, okay, I know we're gonna work on this rage or reactivity thing. We're totally gonna make progress on that. It actually starts by understanding why ignoring your anger was actually really adaptive. We have to thank an internal process.
27:24 Speaker 03 It must have been adaptive for 18 years of your life.
27:27 Emma Grede? Yes.
27:28 Speaker 03 For you to distance yourself from anything you might need for yourself. That's actually, I think, what it means. I'm gonna be a good girl. I don't like such a, she's such a good girl. I really think it means she has become expert at completely ignoring anything she might want for herself and instead becoming completely attuned to what everyone wants from her. I gaze out exclusively and gazing in was associated with danger. Well, fast forward to being a mom. We don't just reverse processes immediately that used to be adaptive and were put in place for our survival. So actually, understanding that from a place of almost gratitude for the past is actually the first step to making a productive change.
28:10 Emma Grede? I mean, it is so, I feel like this will be making so much sense to so many women. I have so many friends that I think live in service of their families, right? That's all they do because it's everybody else before them. And then they wonder why they're miserable. And I'm like, look, look at how you live. Look at what you do. So how do you, if somebody is there right now, how do they reverse that? I have a friend who once said to me, a very wise woman, she said, Emma, you're only ever as happy as your most unhappy child. And I know that feeling of carrying the emotions of my own kids like around like their mind. And that is why I feel like so many mothers end up in this position of like, it's everybody else, but it isn't me.
28:54 Emma Grede? So how do you get out of that if that is where you are?
28:57 Speaker 03 So, look, I don't wanna, I don't wanna distill this down to something overly simple because I think it doesn't do justice to, you know, a little bit of a longer process, right? And I'm all for practical, at least first steps, even if it's not final steps.
29:08 Emma Grede? I'll take it.
29:09 Speaker 03 Okay, so one of my good friends, my co-founder, she, she says this about me. She goes, Becky, you underestimate like how powerful your relationship is with your own calendar in like your mental health. And it's something I've learned from you and women need to learn. My calendar is everything. Now, that doesn't mean what people think it means. If you think about a calendar and a mom's calendar, how many of them? I mean, soccer practice, the carpool, the school plays, all things that matter. But if a mom looks at her calendar right now, I want her to ask herself, what on my calendar is for me? And she'll say, oh, well, I'm making cupcakes. That's not for you. And by the way, great, that's not for you. What on your calendar is for me?
29:50 Speaker 03 Well, if you don't put things on your calendar concretely for you, you will go week after week, month after month, and you will become completely depleted. And, and my metaphor for this is it's like the part of you inside who's not all about caregiving, which there should be other parts of you who like to see your friends, who like to move, who like to do anything that lights you up. If that part of you doesn't get fed, then she's starving and she will scream out to you for her own survival. So a very concrete first step, I would say, is you need to start somewhere. It could be this week and you need to book something on your calendar and keep that appointment the way you would keep your kid's school play.
30:34 Speaker 03 Literally, it could be, and, and this is the other thing I want to say to so many people. They say, but I don't even know what I want. I don't even know what I would enjoy for myself. We can't use that to stop us from trying something. Again, Emma, if your friend was starving and hadn't eaten food for a month and she was at a restaurant and said, I don't even know what I'd want on the menu. You'd say, order anything. By the way, then you'll know I like that, I didn't like it. And you'll know more the next time.
31:04 Emma Grede? Just do something.
31:04 Speaker 03 But if you've been starving. The answer isn't to order nothing and wait to know what you want. The whole reason you're starving is because you've learned to distance yourself from what you want. So, put to the side that you're supposed to know what would feel good. You could try a walk. You could call a friend who you know is good at self-care and say, "Can you give me three things? I might hate all of them, but you seem to have a whole, you know, range of options." You lean on community, but do something that's going to feel awkward at first and unenjoyable, because people need to know anytime you do something new, it's going to feel awkward and uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it's new.
31:42 Emma Grede? Just means you're out of practice. You are totally out of practice.
31:45 Speaker 03 Your body's saying, "I don't really know this." And you could say back to your body, "Of course, you're reacting exactly the way you should. This is new. You're right."
31:52 Emma Grede? Yeah. My goodness. That is like, it's a huge thing to take in. The idea that you are not doing, so used to not doing anything for yourself that you don't even know what to do is wild to me.
32:05 Speaker 03 But that's so, I mean, I can't even tell you, and this is so many parallels to other things for women. I think about so many of the 20-year-olds, 32, I'd seen in my private practice, and they'd start telling me often about the guys they started dating. Many of who sounded really unimpressive, frankly, okay? And I'd be like, "You're this amazing woman, okay?" And they'd talk and they'd talk and, "Okay, I think, you know, I think he likes me because of this." And the most terrifying question I'd say, "What do you like about him?"
32:33 Speaker 03 What? Really? Which is a way of saying, can you gaze in? You know what you want, what matters to you. And it really would bring on a panic attack almost. Because yes, women in general, we've become so good at gazing out that anything that involves gazing in feels panic-inducing purely because it's so new.
32:55 Emma Grede? God, you are so right about that. Like, panic-inducing.
32:59 Speaker 03 So I want, most of us as women, we know, we only know what we want after we don't get it, but not proactively.
33:07 Emma Grede? Yeah.
33:08 Speaker 03 Right?
33:08 Emma Grede? I mean, definitely, yes.
33:11 Speaker 03 Then we feel angry.
33:12 Emma Grede? Yeah, and wonder why we feel angry.
33:24 Emma Grede? I wanna skip into this idea around mum guilt, which is something I talk about with my friends and with everybody all the time. It's something that I feel like I perhaps have a little bit of an unpopular opinion on in some ways.
33:38 Speaker 03 Love it.
33:38 Emma Grede? I'm dying to get your opinion as the expert, right? Because again, I think the mum guilt comes down to this idea of wanting to be a really good parent. And I feel like there is so much chat out there about work-life balance, about this idea of trade-offs, what we should be doing, what we shouldn't be doing. What is your point of view and can you contextualize for the audience? Like again, because my point of view is if you don't know what mum guilt is, if you don't understand it intrinsically, if you haven't been able to contextualize that for yourself, you will never figure it out. So can you just speak a little bit about it? And then I wanna have some of your opinions on work-life balance and what that actually means.
34:20 Speaker 03 So I think we just misunderstand guilt. Mom guilt is one of my favorite topics because I think we don't understand guilt accurately. Guilt is a very important feeling. Guilt is a feeling we have when we act out of alignment with our values.
34:33 Emma Grede? Oh, that's such a lovely sentence. When you act out of alignment with your values, meaning you're doing something that doesn't align with the things that are important to you and your family.
34:44 Speaker 03 When your behavior out here doesn't match your values inside, you feel guilt. And you should feel guilt because it allows you to say, oh, I'm acting out of alignment with my values. Thank you, body, for giving me such a powerful feeling that I can reflect on it. Okay, now it does require you to know what your values are.
35:01 Emma Grede? But isn't that the starting point?
35:03 Speaker 03 A hundred percent with anything.
35:04 Emma Grede? Am I out of alignment with my values? Or am I just doing shit that I wanna do, that I need to do, that I think is important?
35:10 Speaker 03 That's right.
35:11 Emma Grede? Okay, I'm gonna sit back a little bit.
35:12 Speaker 03 So for example, if I no-showed. To your podcast. And I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not just in the mood. Like, or something happened. I'd feel guilty because I'd be like, it is not in my value system to no show. Yes. Okay. Helpful. I'd say, well, why did that happen? It would make me reflect and hopefully bring my behavior the next time back in alignment with our values. That's what guilt is. Whenever we talk about mom guilt, it's so interesting. When I ask for examples from people, well, tell me, tell me the last time you had mom guilt. They'll say something like this. Okay. Well, look, I'm home with my kids a lot, you know, and there's a night my friends are having dinner and I really want to go to this birthday dinner and my husband or my wife or my babysitter, my mother-in-law, whoever it is, is going to be home with my kids. And then my kids, when they see me getting ready, what? I want you to put me
35:57 Speaker 03 down tonight. And, and you know, Dr. Becky, I feel too guilty. I wouldn't even enjoy myself. Okay. Or here's what matters to me as a mom. I know, like, I'm a full-time working mom. I love my career. I love my kids. There are always moments that one feels out of balance, but I want to try to do both. Okay. Those are my values. So then let's say that first example, I say to that woman, okay, is it within your value system to once in a while during your motherhood years, have dinner with your friends? And it's so interesting. Everyone's like, yeah, that is okay. So I said, so this is interesting because right now, when you go to dinner, you are acting in alignment with your values.
36:38 Speaker 03 So what's going on? And this happened, and I don't think this is guilt. So here's what I think is happening. Going back to so many of the themes we've talked about. As women, we have been conditioned to look at other people's uncomfortable feelings and kind of take them into our body, metabolize them. And then we call that guilt. That is not guilt. That is the process of taking what is in someone else's body, that is their feeling state, and taking on, not from a place of care, you're taking responsibility for feelings instead of caring about feelings. This is so important for every human to know. Caring about feelings is completely different than taking responsibility for feelings.
37:23 Emma Grede? First of all, I mean, this applies to so many things and not just guilt, right?
37:28 Speaker 03 So many things.
37:28 Emma Grede? We as women are conditioned to absorbing everybody's feelings all over the place, all over the time, and then taking them in and thinking that they're ours.
37:37 Speaker 03 That's right. And it does it to service to everyone, including your relationship. So let's go through this visual because I find it the most helpful thing for kind of quote, mom guilt, which we now know is just not guilt at all. So let's say I'm the mom going out to dinner. I'm on one side of a tennis court. So I'm on a tennis court at the baseline and my kid who's upset that in my family, be dads putting her to bed is on the other side. Okay. Now, on my side of the tennis court and my decisions, my values, I know I'm around a lot. That feels good. I also know I want to go out to dinner sometimes or go on my work trip. That's my side of the court. On my kid's side are my kids' feelings. My kids' feelings when I go out to dinner are upset, sad.
38:19 Speaker 03 It's so powerful to almost watch how the sad feelings seem to come out of my child's body on their side of the tennis court and come over to my side. And what I encourage moms to do, and this is important, is actually like put their hands up and to give the feeling back to its rightful owner. That feeling isn't yours and something really interesting happens when you take it. You then don't actually empathize with your kid's feelings at all. Because to empathize with someone's feelings, you have to have a boundary and you have to know whose feelings they are. I actually have to give the feelings back to my daughter in order for me to say, you wish I wasn't going out to dinner. Now, by the way, Emma, I'm still going out to dinner. I can hold that multiplicity.
39:02 Speaker 03 But as long as I take the feelings into my body and call it guilt, I'm going to say weird things to my daughter, like, don't you want me to have friends? Like, what? My eight year old's like, are you really asking me that question?
39:12 Emma Grede? That mom, for real.
39:13 Speaker 03 It's like, all right, can you imagine asking your employee that? Like, don't you want me to what? Like, what an, that's a terrifying experience. Or I don't go to dinner and I tell myself it's because I empathize. You did not empathize because you did not help your kid feel safe with that feeling. You just took on the feeling and now you're trying to placate that feeling, not because of your kid, but Because you took it on to your own body. It's actually almost like a selfish endeavor.
39:37 Emma Grede? Yes.
39:37 Speaker 03 And so that is not mom guilt. So I think the whole reframe involves we have to know what our own values are. And that might not be the same as someone else in our neighborhood. Right? And then we have to really say this uncomfortable feeling I'm experiencing. Is it because I'm acting out of alignment with my values? Or if I'm acting in alignment with my values, am I doing that thing where I'm taking someone else's feeling?
40:00 Emma Grede? Yeah. So, so talk to me about this part then.
40:02 Speaker 03 Okay.
40:03 Emma Grede? Because I, what you say is so true.
40:08 Emma Grede? But there is this other side of things, right? Where if I look at like this week, I'm here, I'm in New York. I have not put my kids to bed. I have not taken them to school. I am not doing things that would ordinarily be aligned with my values.
40:21 Speaker 03 Yep.
40:21 Emma Grede? And so we come back to this idea of like work, life, and this idea of balance, whatever that might be. So what do you say when the feeling is real? When you've been traveling, when you've been putting in the hours, when you're having a moment that requires you to be all in on that thing? That isn't your family and you do feel guilt.
40:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:41 Emma Grede? And the guilt is real.
40:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:42 Emma Grede? Then what?
40:42 Speaker 03 So you may say, okay, so for this week, like if I have multiple burners, right? Of my stove, my burner of work is really high. My burner of family connection or presence is lower than I want it to be. That's what you're kind of saying.
40:56 Emma Grede? Yeah.
40:56 Speaker 03 So number one, I would say to anyone, how any given week goes is information and doesn't define who you are. This is another core thing that we talk about at Good Inside, separating behavior from identity. We also struggle with this. I'm a horrible mom. I'm never with my kids. Maybe I just had a work trip for a week. Now, maybe that does give me good information. And if that's me in your shoes and I'm feeling like a little disconnected, I might look at my calendar. Again, I live by my calendar and say, okay, let me look at the next couple of weeks. Okay. You know what? I was invited to this dinner. I'm actually not gonna go because I know I'm gonna cancel it even now that I'm realizing it. I'm just gonna RSVP no. And you know what? I'm gonna move that meeting a little bit later because I know I want to drop off my kid
41:38 Speaker 03 one day. And so now I'm going to use the information of the guilt, not to tell myself I'm a story that I'm a horrible parent. That actually just keeps me frozen, but it's actually good information to make different decisions going forward.
41:52 Emma Grede? And that's the trade offs. That is exactly what I'm talking about because my life is a series of me saying, I have to be all in here and therefore I'm gonna take a backseat here. But in order to make that feel a little bit better for me, I'm not gonna do this other thing.
42:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:08 Emma Grede? And the point is, I don't always get what I want. I'm kind of fine with that. That's part of what it is. But again, this mythical balance that everybody feels is potentially out there for women is just a big fat lie. What it is, is a constant series of trade offs, a constant conversation and learning and knowing for yourself. And also, sometimes things change. Sometimes I am all in one place and other times I'm all in the other place. And you have to feel comfortable with that. But you can't measure yourself by what everybody else is doing and by what everybody else might be feeling.
42:42 Speaker 03 And you can't measure yourself by a single day or a single week.
42:46 Emma Grede? Yes.
42:46 Speaker 03 We really lose the bigger picture of what it means to be in a relationship with anyone if the truth feels like a day versus, and you're talking about a series of trade offs, but I also think you're really talking about a much longer time horizon.
42:59 Emma Grede? Yes.
42:59 Speaker 03 Not judging yourself by, by each zoomed in moment.
43:03 Emma Grede? Right. And I mean, and then that is a really, really important thing.
43:06 Speaker 03 And the other thing I'll say that I think is so important, especially for working moms, is make space for your kids to be upset. Again, as soon as you become kind of less scared of that, you're gone for a week. As soon as you can say, I know, it's a long time. Yeah, and you're gonna, but this week you're missing my. I know. And look, next month, just so you know, I I'm not, I'm gonna be there for this play. And and I get that you're upset about it. I get it. You and I are gonna get through it. You're allowed to feel that way. Right? That is such an important piece of it, too. Because for so many kids, it's not just a difficult moment or not having a parent there
43:49 Speaker 03 that actually bothers them. It's not having a parent understand that they were upset by that. That really bothers them.
43:57 Emma Grede? And again, back to what you said in the beginning, they wanna feel seen. They wanna feel understood. They wanna know that you care about their feelings. And if you show that care and you understand and you make a different plan, like, that is okay.
44:09 Speaker 03 Yes.
44:10 Emma Grede? Like, that is okay.
44:11 Speaker 03 Yes.
44:11 Emma Grede? I um, I wanted to understand what you do when you feel stretched too thin and when you feel like you're in a bit of a spiral. What are the, what is the reset that you do?
44:22 Speaker 03 After I, you know, spiral and wake myself up at 2:00 AM telling myself I'm a horrible parent after that's happened.
44:28 Emma Grede? Those ones?
44:28 Speaker 03 Yeah. Um, I think there's a couple of things I do. I always find it helpful to talk to like a handful of people in my life who I know I can just kind of vomit it to and they'll just be a container. Like, I just have to always get it out. I find that to always be helpful for me. Like, I never.
44:43 Emma Grede? You can't underestimate that, right? The power of releasing yourself from it, like saying the thing, talking to someone. Like, for me, I always write everything down because, like, all of my good friends are on a very different time zone to me. So I can't always call them. But sometimes just getting it on paper, I'm like, okay, it's out of my system now.
45:00 Speaker 03 Yes. I think that's exactly right. In general, how we feel about something has to do with a feeling and how alone we feel in it. And we can't change a feeling. We can't kind of change the hard, but we can change the alone. And so I always try to, like, remove the aloneness as step one. Step two, I think I do try to ask myself, okay, like, what is the thing that's out of alignment? Oh, I I work really, I worked later than I wanted to. I missed too many bedtimes. I I should say that I. I do think looking ahead in your calendar and thinking about the overall life you want, rather than the specific day you want, is really helpful. So I do generally have a rule.
45:42 Speaker 03 Like, I generally go out with my husband, often friends, on a Saturday night, and I will at most go out one week. Now, I'm not trying to put that out there, like, everyone should do that. That's what I know.
45:51 Emma Grede? That's your rule. That's how you feel good.
45:53 Speaker 03 And so what's interesting is someone says, like, some awesome work event on a Wednesday night, and I'll look at my Wednesday night, and my calendar will say it's free. But I don't do that before I say yes. I look at my week. I see, oh, I'm out on Tuesday night. And so I'll say, oh, I'm not able to make it technically. And this is, again, the difference between gazing out and gazing in. My calendar tells me I'm free. But my calendar isn't the boss of me. I'm the boss of me. And I know that if I do that, I'll feel awful. I don't want to do that. I'll be exhausted. My kids' behavior will get worse, because I just know, like, it's only one night that feels like right for the balance.
46:27 Emma Grede? But you have to make those rules for yourself. And my big trick is then communicating that to everyone around me. Because let me tell you, when the invite comes in, my assistant, they already know that I'm gonna say no. Because they know my boundaries. They know that for me, it's probably three nights a week that I go out.
46:44 Speaker 03 Right.
46:44 Emma Grede? But that's my lot. Like, there isn't a fault, because I prefer to be more home than I am out. So it's already like, no, sorry, she can't come. So it takes away all the questioning, but sometimes there is a problem communicating for ourselves, right?
46:57 Speaker 03 I think that's right, because, again, it goes back to this idea of saying no to others. It's so powerful to just twist that and saying, if I have trouble saying no to others, that's not my problem. My trouble is saying yes to myself. That's what it is. And how do you say yes to yourself? Well, you have to know what you want.
47:14 Emma Grede? Yes.
47:15 Speaker 03 And then it becomes less about disappointing others. So many of us have gotten so accustomed to disappointing ourselves all the time. We need to put ourselves back as the protagonist. So it changes it. Most of the things I hear from people, oh, I can't say no. They're gonna be upset. If you think about who the subject is in that book, it's the other person.
47:35 Emma Grede? It's the other person.
47:35 Speaker 03 You're gonna be upset.
47:36 Emma Grede? Yeah.
47:37 Speaker 03 You matter.
47:37 Emma Grede? So why would that? Person come before you.
47:39 Speaker 03 Exactly.
47:40 Emma Grede? But I think there's so much of this, again, you talk about it in the sense of having alignment with yourself, having these principles. I think about it in terms of like, I have a plan, I'm a big planner. And at the beginning of the year, I'm like, I want these trips, I want this vacations, I want these moments to happen. I have to do da, da, da, da, da. But I also plan for my family and what I want there. And so when it's set out and it's set in stone, and then you have to start subtracting from that, you feel that deeply, you're like, but that wasn't what I wanted to do.
48:08 Speaker 03 That's exactly right. And I just want to share this because it's so concrete.
48:11 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
48:11 Speaker 03 And anyone can use it, okay? It's kind of a line that really helps say no, especially in an email when you're like, oh, I know I don't want to go.
48:18 Emma Grede? Oh, God.
48:18 Speaker 03 That I find so helpful is just some version of I promise myself. Thanks so much for including me. I promised myself I wouldn't go out more than one week night. And so unfortunately, I'm not able to make it. And the reason it's so helpful is the reason most people get upset when you say no is they think it's a reflection of how you feel about them. And then the reason they say, why can't you come? No offense, it's usually not about you. They feel insecure and they're just trying to undo that feeling. And so when you state something where someone can really, my language is always locate you, right? And I'm sure you too, you know, when you're with someone, you can locate that feels so sturdy. They know who they are, they know their values. So when you say to someone, I promised myself I wouldn't add more meetings to my calendar this month. They don't protest. I generally get the same response back to that email every time.
49:00 Speaker 03 Wow, thank you for telling me that. I love the way you said that. It's like bringing me closer to someone.
49:05 Emma Grede? Dr. Becky, that might be the best thing that you said. Because also it's a reminder to you, right? I promised myself, you know, it's like you wrote it down, it's there.
49:14 Speaker 03 And like, I hope I can say this in the podcast, only a real asshole wants you to break a promise with yourself. Totally. Like if someone writes back, really, you're like, wow.
49:22 Emma Grede? You should come. No, I don't want to come now.
49:24 Speaker 03 Exactly, exactly.
49:26 Emma Grede? That is amazing. Give me, what do you think is one mindset shift that all mothers could benefit from? When you start to think about what would make our life easier, what's the one thing we can do?
49:37 Speaker 03 I have two. Okay, so the first one is just kids don't need selfless martyrs. Kids needs dirty leaders. And I just think this whole selfless martyrdom, I guess, is not what our, we want our kids to say. Like, my 20-year-old kid, "Oh, my mom loved me so much, she ran herself into the ground." No. My mom showed me-
49:54 Emma Grede? She looked like shit my whole childhood, but she was always there-
49:57 Speaker 03 Full of resentment.
49:58 Emma Grede? And hated us.
49:58 Speaker 03 I smelled the resentment on her body. No, like, I want my kids to say, "My mom really showed me what it was like to take care of other people and take care of yourself at the same time." And now that is something that has been modeled for me, so I know is possible. That's what I want. Right?
50:13 Emma Grede? I mean, yeah, I want to like, stop you and remind you, like, immediately in this moment. Yes, I think that that is what all of us want. That is what all of us want. We want to teach our kids and model for our kids how they should treat themselves. And if you're not treating yourself well, how can you expect that? I don't think any parent on the planet would say, "I want to show my kid what it is to put yourself last, to constantly walk around feeling like shit, to live in a guilt spiral." No one wants that. So why would we show up that way?
50:42 Speaker 03 I think that's right. I just think we have to stop calling that love in parenting. Right? And then the other side of it, given that this feels so new, is I always say to moms, the most powerful, the best leaders I know, take so much pride in education. Right? I think about investors going in to a startup meeting with a CEO who says, "I just do this by instinct. I'm never going to get a coach. I just, this comes naturally." I mean, is there a faster way to end a meeting than that? You want a leader who is open to learning and who knows learning, real resources, real education, that's a sign of strength, that you're right? And so I just think anyone listening, they think, "Okay, this makes sense, but like, how, how would I actually put this into practice?" To know, there are resources out there. And
51:28 Speaker 03 as a mom, if it's not natural to stay calm in a tantrum, or know what to do when your kid's clinging to you, join the club. The idea that this should all come naturally has held us back so much from feeling more empowered.
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52:50 Emma Grede? I have an 11-year-old, a nine-year-old, and twin three-year-olds. And you just think you got it down. And then, you know, my son just started middle school and I'm like, "Fuck, what is happening now?" I didn't read those books. I haven't got there. But I, you know, it's like I have a therapist and I talk to her specifically about my children. And that really helps me because I'm in constant learning mode for the time that they're having in their life. And I read everything and I try to absorb everything. So what do parents do to stay on top of their learning?
53:21 Speaker 03 Great. And again, there's a fine line. This is not to say I don't recommend making any decision until you've consulted someone. No, those are two extremes. But if you're hearing this and if you're thinking, "I do want to stay calmer with my kid," right? Or "I'm not really sure what to do when my kid is in a hitting stage," or "They're lying," there are just so many resources at different price points. There are books. Books are a great place to start. Ask a friend for a recommendation, right? Start a couple pages and see if it resonates with you, which again, Em is important. Check in, "Does this make sense to me? Does this feel maybe a little uncomfortable because it's new? But not the uncomfortable like my heart saying this is wrong, right? So that's one thing. People have therapists, people have parenting coaches.
54:05 Speaker 03 The whole reason we started Good Inside Membership, our app, is because I wanted parents to have in their pocket what I was giving people in private practice.
54:14 Emma Grede? Absolutely.
54:15 Speaker 03 And so our app is, you know, it's less than a co-pay a month. And no matter what you're going through, we can help you. We have live coaching sessions. And if this doesn't resonate with you, there could be other creators that have that, too.
54:26 Emma Grede? Will you talk to me a little bit about your philosophy?
54:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:28 Emma Grede? How do you think about, you know, again, I'm so impressed that you've built an entire business around this. How do people get involved? How do they use it? What do you see as like the practical implications of the work that you're doing? And how are people taking that into their families and really using the information?
54:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, so I think, you know, this started as kind of ideas and it turned into a book. And the reason it became a bigger business, which probably is our app and our membership, which I think the thing I'm proudest of there is our members come from 110 countries.
54:59 Emma Grede? Wow.
54:59 Speaker 03 It's so international. It's so global.
55:02 Emma Grede? Wow.
55:02 Speaker 03 It's amazing. And like we have a, it's amazing. We have a Black Parents Room. We have a Parents of Neurodivergent Kids. Deeply, just so many micro communities within that community. Is I thought, a couple of years ago, honestly, I just thought, and you know this, every part of my life is digitized. I can deposit my check from my phone. I can do so much. And some of that isn't great because it's, you know, almost overly convenient. But parenting is the hardest job in the world.
55:30 Emma Grede? Yeah.
55:30 Speaker 03 And I know for me, even after I wrote my book, which might sound funny, I just thought, when I'm in a hard moment with my kid in the moment, I'm not opening up a chapter of a book. I don't know about you. I'm just like, it's not happening. So I was like, why is it that there can be amazing apps for working out, for giving me a quick tip about something I want to know about my food? But when it comes to managing a tantrum, knowing how to repair after I yelled, handling a sibling argument, handling a sleep issue in the middle of the night? It's like we put our hands up and be like, I don't know. I guess we'll just get why this is our kids' mental health. This is the world that we're gonna, you know, create. And so I just thought, what if I took everything I know, but made it accessible? Right. There's guests. There's like an amazing chat bot in it. There's different programs you can go through.
56:13 Speaker 03 We have live coaching sessions with our coaches every day. Like, why can't that just be more accessible? And when I turned my head, kind of wondering, well, who's doing this? And I realized, nobody was doing this. I said, you know what? I couldn't say that's what that's what we're gonna do. Because they just like, parents deserve that.
56:27 Emma Grede? They really deserve it.
56:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:29 Emma Grede? They really deserve it. And as you've been building this business, because again, you've been incredibly successful. You do have a bestselling book. You have an incredible podcast. You have this app that I'm now understand is in 110 countries.
56:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:40 Emma Grede? All of this takes a lot. So what is your own journey with the idea of work-life balance? And I know, I understand it's like, you have this calendar. But how do you, how do you feel every day as you're doing everything that you're doing?
56:54 Speaker 03 So I, I do want to say, I feel different things on different days. So I'll give you a couple, you know, tastes of that. So first of all, I am just a natural morning person. And I want to say that because I know there's like morality around people who are morning people. And we can like.
57:08 Emma Grede? I'm one too. So I'm not judging you. You're all good. You're all good over here.
57:11 Speaker 03 It makes my world go round. I naturally get up in the fives, which allows me to work out some days, catch up on emails. It's when I do my best writing, some mornings I wake up with a new idea. And I just have to get my coffee in my computer and kind of just get it out of me, you know? And that's when my house, I feel like the world is quiet from 5:30 to 7:00. Then what I try to do is like, put my phone away, right? And have, it's really only like 25 minutes with my kids who are eight, 11, and 14, basically, before they get on the bus to school. And so to me, that is so important. As a working parent, if you are with your kids in the morning, for me, I can just tell you what's been successful. My phone has to be behind two doors. It's not one door. If it's one door, I am like a beet of honey.
57:54 Speaker 03 I don't know. I just hear a ding. It feels like it's so important. Two doors, not there. Because really, when we're not near our phone, what we're saying to our kids during that moment is, there is nothing more important than you. Someone having your full attention. Is the ultimate connection builder.
58:12 Emma Grede? Oh, yes.
58:13 Speaker 03 And connection is the foundation of everything we want. Resilience, cooperation, right? Why isn't our kid listening to anything we say? Well, there could be a million reasons, but one of them is I don't listen to people when I don't feel connected to them. Right? So connection is really at the core. Then I think throughout my day, the different feelings I have or depending on the week is, you know, some balance of, okay, right now I'm doing exactly what I want to do. Right now I'm doing nothing I want to do. And there definitely are some nights when I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose, but I try to remind myself there are often in times of transition. Okay, school just started. Okay, we're coming back from a vacation. And I think one of the things I've learned to do better and better over the years is just make sure I have the right support. Right? We recently hired a new president at Good Inside.
58:58 Speaker 03 That allows me to have, yeah, and a lot more time to do the things that really light me up for work. Not as much of the things that frankly, I'm not as good at and don't light me up. And then it just gives me time back and the time I am at work feels so much more fulfilling because a bigger percentage of it, I'm doing the stuff that really, really matters.
59:15 Emma Grede? You forget about what it's doing for your business because your business is also going to grow and you're going to feel great about that, too.
59:20 Speaker 03 That's exactly right. And then I do think scheduling time with each of my kids, I really do put it like on my calendar.
59:28 Emma Grede? Same. I mean, when you have, I, listen, when you've got more than one kid, I think you have to put it on your calendar. There is, there is no other way. It sounds ridiculous, but for me, it's like I have to put individual time in with each of them because otherwise it would never happen.
59:42 Speaker 03 And then just saying, I'm not able to make that work. But, you know, oh, can you meet that? I'm not able to make that work. How about these times? People adjust accordingly. They really do. Whatever we hear is so much bigger than the reality of the moment. And so I'd encourage people to just experiment a little bit with that. And this makes it seem like I have it all together. And then other moments, you know, I've said to my husband, I used to have a good life. You know, before all this, I used to have a good life, you know? And, and just allowing that to feel true and to feel light at the same time.
1:00:11 Emma Grede? It's so true. I was going to ask you actually, despite all of your experience and your expertise, what is the one thing that you still struggle with?
1:00:19 Speaker 03 I mean, a bunch of things. I think, first of all, for everyone to know, anyone who talks a lot about a topic, people think that means they're expert at a topic. I think it's always people who are just trying to work through their own problems in public. That's what, so I talk a lot about sitting with feelings, sitting with discomfort. That's hard for me in my own personal life. I'm quick to action and it makes me look very productive, which can be a good thing, but our strengths can always be our weaknesses. It's hard for me to sit with uncertainty. It's hard for me to sit with hard moments when there's actually not really a solution. It's just a situation we kind of have to wait and see. That's very, very hard for me. And so that's something I'm definitely always working on.
1:00:58 Emma Grede? And there are just some situations that just like wait and see.
1:01:00 Speaker 03 Are.
1:01:01 Emma Grede? I don't have an answer for that right this second.
1:01:03 Speaker 03 There are, and I think I've learned, it's funny, this actually caught fire on Instagram, but often the most powerful parenting strategy is doing nothing, is waiting and seeing. Literally, my kid says, I hate you. You know what? In this moment, I'm just gonna, let me just wait 10 seconds. So interesting. You wait 10 seconds. How often a kid will say, that's not what I meant, or I'm sorry, or can I try that again? Because I didn't just react right away. So doing nothing and waiting personally, and sometimes even in parenting, yeah, those are things I'm working on.
1:01:30 Emma Grede? I mean, I think the reason that caught fire in the best possible ways was because it's so counterintuitive, but like busy, incredible, working moms to just go, I've got nothing. I'm just gonna wait and see.
1:01:45 Speaker 03 Wait and see.
1:01:46 Emma Grede? But it is powerful. And sometimes you do just need to wait and see. I go back to like my son who's starting middle school. I'm like, you're just gonna have to go through like the next couple of weeks and we'll just wait and see. Like, I don't have any good advice right now.
1:02:00 Speaker 03 And I think also, the more, you know, if you're someone who really likes to be productive, it's a really good flag for your parenting.
1:02:08 Emma Grede? Yes.
1:02:09 Speaker 03 Because so much of parenting, let's say your son's starting middle school, like a lot of kids who start middle school, their friendship group shifts a little bit. You're like, are they being left out?
1:02:17 Emma Grede? The routine shifts, you know, everything changes and no one likes change.
1:02:21 Speaker 03 That's right. And, and probably the best thing for a kid in those situations is to be present, right? You want to hear them out or notice, but it's probably not calling that other parent and getting them invited to something they were left out of. It's not clamping down right away, because when we do that in the name of us feeling productive, we get in our kid's way of kind of figuring things out.
1:02:42 Emma Grede? You are so right. Okay, I'm gonna move to some rapid fire.
1:02:44 Speaker 03 Oh, love it.
1:02:45 Emma Grede? What's the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
1:02:48 Speaker 03 First thing I do when I wake up in the morning is make coffee.
1:02:52 Emma Grede? And the last thing you do before you go to bed at night?
1:02:55 Speaker 03 Kiss my husband.
1:02:57 Emma Grede? What's the first thought that runs through your head when mum guilt sets in?
1:03:02 Speaker 03 That I wonder if this person is really feeling guilt, or if they're just taking responsibility for someone's uncomfortable emotions.
1:03:10 Emma Grede? What's a mantra or a phrase that helps you reset?
1:03:13 Speaker 03 This feels hard because it is hard, not because I'm doing something wrong.
1:03:18 Emma Grede? What's a book that changed your life?
1:03:20 Speaker 03 Internal Family Systems by Dick Schwartz.
1:03:22 Emma Grede? That's a great one.
1:03:23 Speaker 03 Best.
1:03:24 Emma Grede? It's such a good book.
1:03:26 Speaker 03 Everything by him.
1:03:27 Emma Grede? Yeah. That's a, I'm so glad that you said that because it's a really important book for all parents to read.
1:03:32 Speaker 03 Yes.
1:03:32 Emma Grede? And something that you used to feel guilty about in your 30s that you've let go of now?
1:03:38 Speaker 03 Saying no to other people in the name of saying yes to myself.
1:03:42 Emma Grede? What is something that used to really matter to you when you were starting out in business or as a parent, but no longer matters?
1:03:51 Speaker 03 Probably doing things that the elusive should told me to do, as opposed to doing things that really come from gazing in and kind of coming from my own value system.
1:04:06 Emma Grede? Yeah, that feels absolutely about right. Amazing. Dr. Becky, thank you so much. So happy to have you today.
1:04:18 Emma Grede? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren LaGrosso, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney. Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi.
1:05:02 Emma Grede? Social media by Olivia Homann. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Shaun Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemagreed. Greed is spelt G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with emagreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.
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