How to Create What People Actually Want with Erin and Sara Foster

Erin and Sara Foster have spent more than 15 years working across television, fashion, media and investing. Today, they are behind the hit Netflix series Nobody Wants This, the fashion brand Favorite Daughter, a production company, a venture fund and a growing slate of projects—but their success did not arrive according to a master plan. In this episode, they join Emma to unpack the failures, pivots and unlikely opportunities that eventually brought everything together. It is a conversation about staying in motion when the path is unclear, discovering your strengths later than expected, and refusing to treat someone else’s success as evidence that you are falling behind. In this episode, Erin and Sara share: What nobody tells you about the years before anything worksThe power of saying yes before the path is clearHow they built Favorite Daughter without being traditional “fashion girls”The different ways scarcity and abundance shape their relationship with moneyWhat Erin learned from seven years of IVF and 20 rounds of treatmentWhy it’s never too late to find your lane and how failure can redirect you toward the career you were meant for

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Erin and Sarah Foster are having what looks like one of those overnight success moments. They have Favorite Daughter, a growing fashion brand. They have Nobody Wants This, a hit show on Netflix. They have a podcast, a venture fund, a production company, and this whole ecosystem that suddenly feels like it's working everywhere at once. But what I loved about this conversation is how honest they are about what came before that. The years when the phone just wasn't ringing, the jobs that didn't work, the things they said yes to before there was a clear plan, and the failures that quietly became the foundation. We talk about their partnership, money, privilege, ambition, IVF, building a brand people actually believe in, and why women need to get much more comfortable with saying what they want

• 0:53Emma Grede?

  and what they deserve to be paid. They are funny, sharp, deeply honest, and proof that sometimes the thing that looks late is actually arriving right on time. Here's Erin and Sarah Foster.

• 1:13Emma Grede?

  Erin and Sarah Foster, welcome to Aspire.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:17Emma Grede?

  I'm very happy to have the two of you here. It feels like a really fricking long time coming.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:22Emma Grede?

  Right?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:23Emma Grede?

  It really does. And I have so many things that I want to talk to you about, but I just, I feel like I've been surrounded by you guys ever since I first moved to LA.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

• 1:34Emma Grede?

  Well, you know, it depends on the day, if I'm totally honest. But I do feel, and this is the thing that I'm most excited to talk about, that there has just been this groundswell of success for the two of you in very recent years, despite you having been around and having done so much. And that's what I really want to talk about, because I feel like specifically with my audience, there will be so many women that are sitting there in their late 30s, in their early 40s, that have ambition, that have drive, that have work ethic, and yet they still are looking for permission. And I think the thing about you two is that you've never been looking for permission. And I really want to understand where that comes from.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I would say that, that a lot of our career choices have been really directed by failure, because when something wasn't working, we had to figure out something else to do. And then so many things ended up working kind of all at the same time. But a lot of it is due to being on a path, and that path having a lot of blocks, and feeling really frustrated, and feeling like that path is no longer available. So then saying yes to something that is adjacent, that maybe we would have said no to if we were operating out of fear, but it worked, and it always redirects you back to where you need to be. So like, I think about, I was trying to be an actress in my 20s, and

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I was pretty bad at it, honestly, because I was going out for, I don't know, all these dramatic roles, and I just like, wasn't in my body, and I didn't really know who I was. And I was trying to be really like, edgy. And I'm just not really that edgy of a person. And I gave up acting, I mean, sorry, acting gave up me. My career wasn't happening. And so-

• 3:17Emma Grede?

  I think I gave up both of us.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. But out of that failure-

• 3:20Emma Grede?

  God bless Atria.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Out of that failure, I redirected and thought, well, I actually want to try being a writer. So then I was like, okay, I'm a behind the scenes person, I'm a writer, right? And then just this last year, or this year, I guest starring in our show, Nobody Wants This, as an actress. And I was, I had that moment of feeling like, when you walk away from something wholly, completely accepting it, and really diving into something else and hoping that that thing works, a lot of times the universe will end up giving you the thing that you used to want, but in the way that you're meant-

• 3:54Emma Grede?

  I expect.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Or the way you're meant to have it.

• 3:56Emma Grede?

  There's so much. Like, when it, like, I think it's really important to, like, to list it all out, right? Because you have this incredible brand in Favorite Daughter. It's a $150 million brand, and, you know, or going in that direction. You have a hit show that has been nominated for countless awards, not just like, once, but like, for multiple seasons. You have the venture fund, you have the podcast, you have a production company, you have so much happening. But like, forgive me for saying, I feel like almost none of this was happening, I don't know, like, half the time that I've known you guys. Like, it all seems to have kind of come to the fore, kind of seemingly around the same time. So what is like, what's the through line?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  I think the ecosystem was starting, but all of the things that we have, the seed was planted in a really unglamorous way. There would be no Favorite Daughter if we didn't do this little t-shirt collab with this little brand that nobody had ever heard of, for no money. We didn't even have a lawyer. Look at the contract, ladies.

• 4:54Emma Grede?

  First of all, well, I've got to talk to you about that.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  No, I know.

• 4:56Emma Grede?

  What are you talking about?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  No, ladies, if you're listening, never do that.

• 4:59Emma Grede?

  Don't do that.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Erin and I, we always have a cautionary tale. Like, don't do-

• 5:03Emma Grede?

  But you really didn't have a lawyer in that deal. You just like, were, you know, got instinct. You were like, we need to do this, we're not really doing-

• 5:08Speaker 01

  And by the way, not that anyone tried to screw us over, because we didn't have a contract or anything like that. It was just taking that deal that we were doing, and then launching it into its own brand for Favorite Daughter. We just obviously weren't planning for that.

• 5:20Emma Grede?

  Because for context, what happened is you did a deal with another brand, and then you use the parent company to do a JV to launch your own brand, right?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Well, it wasn't the parent company. Somebody from Centric Brands saw the t-shirt collab and thought-

• 5:33Emma Grede?

  Got it. There's something to these two.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Favorite Daughter, that's, that's a brand. And I remember looking at Erin being like, no, it's not. That's like, why would anyone, we don't have a fashion background, we're not considered stylish, nobody thinks of us as fashion girls, we don't go to fashion shows, we're not even invited to fashion shows. Why would anybody want a brand from us? Okay, so that's Favorite Daughter.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Which we still kind of aren't.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Which we still really aren't.

• 5:53Emma Grede?

  But in that is your genius, right? Because like, I feel like with you two, you turn up and you kind of look how every girl would be happy to look.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:01Emma Grede?

  And kind of any girl. And I mean that in the most flattering way, because in that lies the enormity of this brand. It's like, as you guys say, it's like, nobody wants to spend a thousand bucks on jeans, but everyone's happy to spend a couple hundred dollars if they make your ass look the best it's ever looked-

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 6:15Emma Grede?

  -in your whole life. And so that's what you guys have capitalized on, your normalness.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I'm not wearing $3,000 pants. I'm just never gonna do that, unless someone gifts them to me. And then I still, it's like a bottle of wine. I like, well, no one I'm supposed to wear them. I think that we're being ourselves, you know? Like, we, we are intimidated by the fashion world, and most women are intimidated by the fashion world. So we chose to connect with those women, not the fashion girls.

• 6:40Emma Grede?

  Which I think is so smart of you and such an amazing business decision. With the hit show that is just so amazing, by the way, and I think congratulations to the two of you, I'm wondering how much that's opened up for you. Like, what do the deals and the opportunities look like post the success of that show?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  I mean, I think we've had two kind of monumental moments in our career so far. I don't know if you would agree, that have opened us up to new things. And the first one, I would say, was when we took the creative director job at Bumble. That completely put us into a new category, a new world, in different rooms. We did something with you and Jens-

• 7:20Emma Grede?

  Oh, you remember that?

• 7:21Speaker 02

  For Frame.

• 7:21Emma Grede?

  We went to Aspen all together.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So that put us into a world where we started getting deal flow. People started coming to us, saying, we're watching you move the needle for this company. Do you think you can come try to move the needle for us? So there was that. I think that put us into a different light. And then obviously, with Nobody Wants This, that is like, completely put us into a different light. Our production company, Erin is a writer, me as a producer, Erin is a producer. But again, we've been trying to get shows made for over 15 years.

• 7:54Emma Grede?

  She's crazy.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  So it's not like Erin just one day was like, ooh, maybe I could write, and started typing something, and it was a hit. She's had failure after failure after failure. We had a TV show that we thought was going to be the next Curb Your Enthusiasm. It got cancelled after two seasons. So like-

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I was gonna say also, is like, when we were in Aspen with you, that was when we were-

• 8:13Speaker 02

  This was 2017.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, 2017, and we were creative directors at-

• 8:17Emma Grede?

  At Bumble.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  At Bumble. And that is the only reason why we have a venture fund today. So for where you're sitting, or where most people are sitting, and saying this kind of, almost felt like it came out of nowhere. But in 2017, when we were trying to figure out how to help Bumble be-

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Relevant.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  More versatile, more relevant, whatever it was at the time, us working with them was what ushered us into, you know, now guest starring on Shark Tank and investing in brands. Like, that brought us into the tech space or the investment space at all, because it was the first time we ever had equity-

• 8:49Speaker 02

  A company.

• 8:49Emma Grede?

  And was that plan for for you? Or did you realize something incredible is happening? And actually, our influence can go into outside the entertainment industry.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  None of this has been planned. And I think that this is, I think it's tough because I think it's natural to look at other people and go, I want that. I want to be Emma Grede. I want to be the Fosters. I want to be this. I want to be that. You, it doesn't work like that. It just doesn't work like that. Nothing that we have done has been us sitting there going, ooh, what can we do? Okay, we're gonna need a brand. We're gonna need a perfume. We're gonna need a podcast. We're gonna need this. We've never been, we've been intentional in other ways with our integrity and authenticity. But we have never intentionally mapped out all these categories that let's try to disrupt. Let's try to do, never.

• 9:35Emma Grede?

  And what about now? Do you do that now? Now, given the, the trajectory and what you know is possible and what you're capable of? Is there a plan for now for the next five years?

• 9:45Speaker 02

  I mean, I know my plan, but.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  I mean, now we have at least something tangible to look at where you can say, I want this show to have a certain number of seasons, or I want our brand to be worth this amount of money or be in this many categories. So I would say we probably have more of a plan today than we used to where we were sort of aimlessly grabbing on to whatever worked. But I think Sarah thinks more tangibly like that than I do.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  It's hard to say no to things right now because I always, Erin has an abundance mindset. I don't have an abundance mindset.

• 10:14Emma Grede?

  You have a scarcity mindset, specifically when it comes to money?

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Everything, everything. I'm the oldest of three. I, I knew that my, I knew when the child support check was late because I was the oldest. I paid attention. Like, I have a different relationship to money and abundance than Erin does. So I, for me, have this mindset of I have to say yes to this deal. I have to say yes to this because it's gonna go away. And I'm never gonna have it again. So I'm really trying now in life to water the seeds that we have planted. Enough is enough. At some point, you have to go. And maybe you guys disagree. Enough is enough.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I agree because I'm always sort of happy with where I am and I don't feel like I need for more. If this was the peak, it's an amazing peak. But I feel like you have to be in a place where you love your life. Whether you've gotten all the things that you wanted or you haven't gotten them yet. And I loved my life before I got all these things.

• 11:12Emma Grede?

  And, and that within itself, though, is a point of view that, and let's just be honest about this, right? Because we know each other and we're friendly. It's like, you also, like, you grew up in a way where you're not wanting for something. Like, you guys are ambitious because that is what is within you, not because there was a need. Like, I feel like my ambition comes from a place of not understanding.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Survival.

• 11:35Emma Grede?

  It's survival, but it was also like, if I didn't do, then I wouldn't eat. Like, it was just like, you're on your own and you have no choice. And I think.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  No, we could be complete, you know, low life losers with no job and we're not gonna live on the street.

• 11:48Emma Grede?

  No, you'll be all right. You'll be all right. But I think sometimes that mentality of maybe feeling like, I don't need to hustle and enough is enough comes from this place of, do you know what? I've always been all right. And I'm always gonna be all right.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think, yes, we've always been all right. At the end of the day, if we, you know, couldn't pay our rent, to Erin's point, we wouldn't be on the street. But we spent many, many, many years with the phone not ringing.

• 12:11Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  We spent many, many years where I was doing catalogs for J C Penney modeling bras for a thousand dollars for the entire weekend or whatever it was. Because we did, yes, of course, we grew up with a father who was very privileged, who came from nothing.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  He worked very hard to get to where he was. He grew up poor and he was one of seven kids and he was the only boy, six sisters. His dad died when he was young. He was providing for his family at a really young age. He did not raise us like my princesses. We've never been called a princess in our lives. We didn't have the dad that was coddling us and making sure that we always felt taken care of financially. He instead kind of created resilience in us. And he always looked at us and said, let me be very clear. I'm rich. You're not rich. I worked very hard for this. If you want this lifestyle, then you should go get it by working your asses off. And he had very high expectations for our work ethic and was very hard on us in a way that today I'm really grateful for.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Because he did create this sense of, like, if I want a life that I love, then I have to create it for myself. We always wanted to become less dependent on him at the earliest age possible so that we could feel good about ourselves.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  You know, I think that there's a lot of, like, when you're not living up to your potential and you're not living your life based on your own merit, it feels very bad. And what is challenging, I think, for us with this, like, visible parent in the world is that everything that we create and earn on our own today continues to be credited to being a nepo baby. And it's something that if you fight it, it just kind of gets worse. So you have to let it go. But it is hard when you are a very, very hardworking person, that you are giving up time with your children, your marriage, your friends, free time, you are so devoted and dedicated to doing something to its fullest extent

• 14:09Speaker 01

  in a way that you is responsible. And you'll always sort of have that label.

• 14:13Emma Grede?

  No doubt. But I also think that when you credibly have an actual talent, right? Which for you, you are an excellent comedic writer. Like, that is also very, very difficult to have that constantly thrown at you that you've got to where you've got because of something else. Because at the end of the day, you're only as good as the work that you're putting out there. Like, no one can write for you. Like, your dad can't put you, you can get some introductions, but at the end of the day, you've got to come up with the goods.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Your dad can also give you, like, a profitable fashion brand. People think like, oh, he must just be sitting there on Shopify.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  We've never had family put one dollar into any venture that we have ever done. All that being said, though, we have to, like, pause because there's, like, there's two parts of the coin. Like, on one part of the coin, yes, your dad cannot nominate you for an Emmy for Best Comedy of the Year, right? But then Erin always says this. Erin's like, at the end of the day, when you are, when you grow up in the privilege that we grew up, you are exposed to rooms and you are exposed to people treating you a certain way. And that is invaluable.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  The privilege actually comes from areas that people don't even call out. The privilege comes from, we're not new here. We know how to operate in a room full of overpowering men that want to take advantage of you or manipulate you. We grew up in that. We were sitting at tables with successful CEOs of companies. We got advice from those people. We've been exposed to success. That feels different than being dropped in L A and having to wait tables and not knowing anybody. It does make it different. It makes you more savvy and it makes you more confident. You know, we don't feel like someone's gonna fuck with us. So we didn't have that, you know, like, batting eyelashes, sort of damsel in distress thing. And that is a privilege to have that.

• 16:05Emma Grede?

  One million percent. And more to the point, people knew you. Right? Because I feel like, you know, I actually came here having been pretty bloody successful in England, but nobody gave a shit. You turn up in Beverly Hills, they're like, so? What's that shit that you did over there? Nobody cares. Like, nobody cares. And so actually, I feel like, listen, and we can sit here and talk about, you know, privilege and being an nepo baby. The fact is, and it's very clear because otherwise I really would have zero interest in speaking to you two. You've been unbelievably successful and everyone starts somewhere. And I think that what you have to, what I think is sometimes missed with the two of you is just how much you have maneuvered, like, just how much you've been smart with where you started,

• 16:50Emma Grede?

  what you have, how you've come into rooms, how you've come into situations, how you've leveraged it. And that is the value that I think anyone sitting at home can really learn from and understand. Because when I kind of think about you guys and I think about all the things you've done, you were actually going in very different directions. Like, you were out here modeling and acting, you were writing. And actually, it's the coming together of the two of you and the partnership that you've created that's actually brought out the very best in, I think, both of you. What do you think the sign was that you needed to, like, come back and work as a partnership? Where did that come from?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  Well, you started it with Barely Famous. I'll never forget. I was like, living my life in Florida, you know, with Tommy. I had Valentino was like a, you know, a toddler and I was like on a bad TV show, but it was a steady situation. And she called me and she was like, I have an idea for a TV show. We're gonna write it. We're gonna star in it. And this is what it is. And I remember being like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm gonna stay on my bad TV show. You're writing. And that sort of changed everything. That was 2015.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  And so we had this show and it became this sort of cult classic. It seemed like everybody in the industry saw it, but it was the lowest rated show, I think, on all of television. Nobody else actually watched it. But that was sort of the first.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'd never worked together before that.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  We'd never worked together.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  And I had my first professional TV writing job on a staff and I got fired.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  And it was in Murphy's show.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, he didn't fire me.

• 18:22Emma Grede?

  Why did he fire you?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  I think just wasn't a good fit, I guess.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Well, she got fired the last day of production.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got fired the last day. It wasn't, it wasn't fun.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  But it was more just like, don't come to the after party.

• 18:35Emma Grede?

  You're down here.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  It was one of those moments where you think it's a low and it ends up being like just such a blessing because it really woke me up. And there are sort of different paths you can take as a writer where you can have a really great, successful career writing other people's shows and it's a great living. But I really realized on that job that I, that wasn't really what I wanted to do. I wasn't enjoying the process of writing someone else's joke structure or someone else's story. I really had my own story that I wanted to tell. And so getting fired did sort of shake things up. It was like my biggest fear realized, oh my God, what if I'm a bad writer? What if I'm bad at doing this?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  And then I just sort of took this opportunity to try to develop something of my own. And the chances of getting something like that sold is like nothing. But I didn't know that at the time because I was so new at it. I had tried to sell one show, it didn't sell.

• 19:34Emma Grede?

  How old are you at this point?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  I'm 30 at this.

• 19:36Emma Grede?

  Okay, so you're young, right?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Well, it depends on how you look at it, right?

• 19:40Emma Grede?

  I mean, I feel like it's young to go out and be shopping your own show.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  It is, but also I think it's a good reminder for women who are 30 because 30 is such a scary age. I was 29 turning 30. It's such a scary age where you think that you have to have everything already figured out. And 30 is when I was just starting to understand what my superpower was.

• 19:58Emma Grede?

  That what am I even good at?

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  But we also have more grace for this age now because we had podcasts like this and like ours where we're telling young women, guys, 30 is, you're a baby.

• 20:09Emma Grede?

  You're a child.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  But 10 years ago, we didn't.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  13 years ago.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Okay, 13, 13 years ago, I just don't think women were armed in the same way with the information that they are armed today.

• 20:21Emma Grede?

  And I still think even so today, I speak to so many kids that are just fresh out of college and they feel like they're supposed to just walk into the job of their dreams and the thing that they are supposed to be doing. And I'm like, dude, it's a journey. Do you know how much shit I've done?

• 20:34Speaker 01

  It's the fear and it's the flailing bit that really gets you to where you need to go. You have to suffer a little bit. You have to be lost and confused and scared and freaked out.

• 20:44Emma Grede?

  No, you, you need all of that. But I also think what happens like in the culture and at the, in the media at large, there are just so few people telling the truth. Like so few people actually say, I was fired, it sucked, I did all of this dog's work and it didn't work out and I started this business. And like, people are just not entirely honest, right?

• 21:04Speaker 02

  They give you a lack of self-awareness.

• 21:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah, and they'll give you a little like authentic sprinkling, but they won't really, really tell you. And I think that that is, again, one of the reasons that you guys have such popularity and such a community around you because you do tell the truth and people are drawn to people that they believe are just not sugarcoating things. They're just gonna like give them the information and not gatekeep and say, this is what it looked like for me.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  And that's really what Barely Famous was for us, which is why it was such a big jump point because we had been spending our teen years in our twenties going, you know, no, we're not trying to be famous. We're not trying to be famous. We're not just trying to be these LA vapid reality stars. Like, that's not who we are. And so then we made this comedy about two girls who are these vapid reality stars trying to become famous. We took the thing that we were so scared people were thinking of us and then we just decided to be in on the joke. And that's when everything shifted for us.

• 22:02Emma Grede?

  Everything. Because all of the sudden, I feel like you were seen as like you were in on it. Like, it wasn't happening to you.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:08Emma Grede?

  We're gonna take this and we're gonna create from it.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  I think when you have low self-esteem, which I really suffer from low self-esteem, Erin does not, which I think is amazing. I think you're so afraid for people to think that thing about you that you think about yourself.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  When Sarah says she has bad self-esteem or low self-esteem and I don't, it's, it's, it's not that we don't have the same initial instinct of like a negative voice around something about ourselves. It's that I hear the negative voice and then I push past it. Where Sarah will let that negative voice control what she decides to do. I don't. I hear like, ooh, I think that's like a bad picture of me. And then the second voice is like, I'm not gonna live like that, put it out.

• 22:47Emma Grede?

  I feel exactly the same. It's not like I don't have the bad days, it's just that I am resolute that that is not gonna be the thing that stops me.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:53Emma Grede?

  It's like, I've gotta go past that.

• 23:05Emma Grede?

  Something that I have wanted to talk to you about for the longest time because I know that you went through, talking about pushing through it all, you went through 20 rounds of IVF. And you did all of that while you were creating Nobody Wants This, which arguably is like the biggest, most successful, brilliant thing that you've done. And I just wanted to understand, how were you able to do those two things and hold those two things?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Well, it was going on over the course of like seven years. So it wasn't, you know, it was sort of, it's, it sort of just became a part of my life, you know, because you think, I'm gonna get pregnant, I'm gonna try to get pregnant. I had frozen my eggs like three times before I even met my husband, just because I was almost 36 when I met him. And I only got a couple eggs each time, but I thought like, you know, it's not the insurance policy that most women think it is. Now there's a little more awareness around it, but the likelihood of that egg working is just very low. If you have 10 eggs frozen, they're sort of just like empty little vessels and you have no idea what's inside them, how good they are, or what's gonna take. It was a shocking number of, of cycles that I went through.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  And I guess to answer your question, there was a point where it was like my whole life was wrapped up in getting pregnant and I was so sick of thinking about it and sick of talking about it. And it was hard for the people around me because there's not really anything you can say that will help. I started telling everyone like, please don't ask me questions when I go to the doctor. Like, there's only really one update to give you. I'm pregnant, but I'm not. And I promise I'll tell you if I'm pregnant, but until then I can't say like, it grew three centimeters or the eggs are whatever.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  What she went through is, you're downplaying it. It was gnarly.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  It was gnarly, it was, it was, it was bad.

• 24:48Emma Grede?

  I mean, I had no idea that you were going through, you know, I'm not one of your closest friends, I had no idea that you were going through that. And so from an outsider's perspective, it was kind of unimaginable that as you were having all of this success, you also had this like hardship. And then I remember actually just reading your caption because I was like, oh my God, like she's had the baby. And I read that caption and I was like just stuck in my seat because I was like, wow, 20 rounds and what that takes. Like, it really is extraordinary.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  It did really, really shift my perspective in my life because there was this thing that I wanted more than anything. And I've wanted to be a mom since I was like a teenager. Like, I've always, it's been very clear. When Sarah had her daughter, Valentina, and I was what, like 26 or 27, Sarah was never the mom that was like into, you know, kids' birthday parties and stuff. So I'm like, I'm taking her to the kids' birthday parties. I had a car seat in my car when I was single in my twenties, like.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  I'm like, you got music. And by the way, that's when our relationship actually really changed, when I had kids. Because we were like, well, we can't, she can't be mad at me for that long because she wants to see the kids and you know I'll keep the kids from her if she's a bitch to me. Yeah, she's a bitch to me. I'm like, well, you're not gonna see the kids.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  But the point is, is that there was this thing that I so deeply wanted and the universe wasn't giving it to me. Every single round was worse than the one before. I mean, there are times I woke up from anesthesia and they're like, there actually wasn't any eggs in there at all. And I'm like, sorry, I was doing medicine for a month and there's nothing in there. Like, it was real lows, right? There were no highs. There was all lows.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  But never once, never once, as all of her friends around her, pregnancy after pregnancy, she always was happy. I, I think I even said to her once, I was like, wait a minute, is that hard for you that your friend is now like complaining that she's pregnant with number four and it was unexpected? And she's like, no, like I'm happy for them.

• 26:42Emma Grede?

  Oh, I don't know how you did that.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  You showed up to every baby shower with a smile on your face. You never were like, poor me, ever. And I think that's why the universe ended up giving you that thing.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I don't think that that person's pregnancy is stopping me from getting pregnant. So they're not connected, right? I really was just focused on what my journey is. Why is this not happening for me? It definitely sent me down a non-toxic journey. I stopped wearing nail polish. I stopped eating certain foods. I started drinking certain foods. I started, I did every method. You know, the problem with trying to get pregnant is that every method tells you that the other method is wrong. So one person's like, if you aren't drinking the pregnancy smoothie, you can't get pregnant. The other person's like, if you eat cold foods, you're never gonna get pregnant. So now I can't have the smoothie. So you're doing so many things and everything makes you feel like you're doing something to stop you from getting pregnant, whether it be the food you're eating, the things you're putting around your body, or that you are thinking about it too much. All of it is your fault.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Didn't you love when people are like, just don't think about it?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a really mean thing. Please don't say that to people.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Ladies, never say that.

• 27:41Emma Grede?

  What do you think going through that? And, and I don't want to spend too long on this because I know it's a very sensitive subject too, but I'm just interested to understand what going through something like that does to you in terms of your perspective, how you think about your life, your business, the importance of everything that you're doing. Was there a big shift for you?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there was a point where I thought, okay, I might never have the thing that I want. Am I gonna let it ruin my life? Like, I have to be able to be happy without this thing. I have good people in my life. I'm, I'm, I have an amazing husband. I'm in a happy marriage. I have a great family. Like, I love my nieces and nephews. I don't get to decide, right? It's not up to me. So if it never happens, I'm gonna be miserable forever? Like, I didn't want that to be my fate. So I do think that you can apply this to many situations in your life, which is, yes, there's a thing you want, yes, you might never get it. Are you gonna let that stop you from having a good life? I do think that we decide what's enough and we decide if our life is good or not.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Like, you can decide you're the luckiest person on the fucking planet and so can the person next to you. Like, you decide. I believed when I was living in a tiny rental house and couldn't get pregnant, that I really did have the best life. And now I'm living in my dream home with my child and my husband. And yes, I do think that I have a perfect life, but I also felt that way 10 years ago.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Abundance mindset.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  I feel really lucky to be here.

• 29:09Emma Grede?

  There she is. And you old scarcity over there?

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Look at Sarah just struggling.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Poor me.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Poor me.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  So sad.

• 29:19Emma Grede?

  I want to switch up a gear because I think one of the things that you guys have is like such a clear like brand, point of view. It's very clear who you are and what you stand for.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  You're the basic bitch.

• 29:32Emma Grede?

  You said that, not me, absolutely not. No, but I think like as a person that comes from like a marketing point of view and someone who is very planned about everything, by the way, it would like if you two were my clients, I would find it so easy to like map out, here's what I think you should be doing and here's where you guys are going to be successful.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Ooh, will you, will you help us?

• 29:52Emma Grede?

  Anytime babe, anytime, just let me in. But I wonder like when, like at what point did you guys really start to trust the thing that people seeing you?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  I still don't. I still like think to myself, I'm like, what are we doing?

• 30:04Emma Grede?

  Will people really respond to the fact that you two are yourselves?

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:07Emma Grede?

  Right? I think like that's what you have. Like, I feel like it's very believable. Like, I don't look at you guys and favorite daughter and be like, they're not wearing that.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  We're both head to toe.

• 30:15Emma Grede?

  I, no, but I believe it and I know it to be true. But it's like, I feel like the stuff that, the thing that you do really, really well is being yourselves.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:24Emma Grede?

  And so I wonder, is there some, at some point where you were just like, we're just gonna fucking lean into that?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I mean, it's pretty freeing when you, and it's like, we didn't invent this. Everybody knows, what's the thing you would try if you weren't afraid to fail, right? Like, we all know that. But I really do think, once you realize that nobody is thinking about you or watching you the way that you think they are, once you stop and go, no one actually is watching, just go do your thing, go be you, go try.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  I have an amendment to that, though.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Even if they are watching, who cares?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Because sometimes people are, sometimes people want you to fail, right? Sometimes you are applauding the thing that didn't work. So it's like, okay, so what's the worst thing that happens? We fail, everyone sees that we failed, it goes up in flames. Okay, then what? Like, am I gonna die?

• 31:09Emma Grede?

  I agree with both of you entirely. And it's something that I wrote about so much in my book, because the fear that holds us back is like so, it's so stifling.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  It's shame.

• 31:20Emma Grede?

  It's so stifling. But once you get to that point where you're like, oh, you know what? I failed, everybody saw, and guess what? I'm still fucking fine.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:28Emma Grede?

  And I still have it in me to go again. Like, that shit is freeing. What it does is it actually builds confidence. It builds the ability for you to understand that that shit's not gonna kill me.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it builds confidence.

• 31:39Emma Grede?

  It really does. Because you don't wake up confident. You actually learn confidence through going through shit and it being just fine.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  And it's not just work related. I mean, it's being rejected by, by love, right? It's, it's having someone look at you and go like, I don't find you attractive. It's someone looking at you and no, no, that's never happened to you. I'm like, it's someone going like, it's someone going like, I don't want to be with you, right?

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Or just ghosting you.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  I don't feel the same way as you do.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Just never responding.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  It reminds you of your humanity. It's like, oh, okay, you didn't have the same experience that I had. You don't feel the same way that I feel. You don't want the same thing that I want. It's like, it creates this new version of yourself that I do believe is the same thing you're using when you have to push through discomfort in your career.

• 32:24Emma Grede?

  A hundred percent. But how do you get to, and how have you two got to the point where you've been able to control those emotions and understand that about yourself?

• 32:32Speaker 01

  I don't think we do.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  No, I don't think we do.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  I don't think we do control it.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  But I'll tell you this, we're lucky to have each other. I always tell my girls, I'm like, guys, I don't want you to go to college because the thing you're gonna major in is gonna be the thing that you end up doing. I want you to go to college because I want you to meet your people. I want you to meet your future co-founders. I want you to meet your future.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Future co-founders is so bad.

• 32:55Emma Grede?

  I knew you were gonna pull her on that.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  I know, but I say, but that's, I'm not just saying that.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  I want you to go to college, not to learn what your degree is in, but so you can start a business with somebody.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  To just meet your people, whatever that is, your lifelong friends, the people you're gonna start a business with, the person that's gonna hire you. Like, you need to go meet your community. Because I think we are all sitting here knowing, without our community, we're nothing. That's it. So I tell my girls, that's, that's why you go to college. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's bad advice, guys. I also tell them, I also tell them to use AI when they're doing their homework. So Erin goes, Sarah, that is, you cannot, I was telling my 15 year old, I was like, girl, go on chat.

• 33:36Emma Grede?

  You did not tell us to go on chat.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  She was, she couldn't figure this thing out. I go, girl, go on chat. And is that terrible parenting?

• 33:42Emma Grede?

  No, it's not terrible parenting. It's great parenting. But my point of view is that like, I'm for myself, concerned about my level of thinking. So it's like, I don't do anything first on chat. Like, I'm gonna think it through, I'm gonna come up with my own shit, and I'm gonna use chat to make the thing better.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  You wanna preserve your brain cells.

• 34:02Emma Grede?

  I wanna preserve my brain cells and I wanna preserve my ability to come up with new shit. Because I'm like, that's not an idea machine, it's just a betterment machine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna come up with some good shit, and you, Gray and Lola need to come up with good shit. And then you can use AI to check and to make it better and to tighten it up and do all those things.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Sarah's doing it a different way.

• 34:19Emma Grede?

  Yeah. Well, do you know what? Each, Sarah and Sarah, I won't judge you on mothering.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  And I don't care if you do judge me. And I don't care if you judge me. I really don't care. I said this on the podcast. I was like, I know I'll be judged for this. I know people are gonna have a thing to say that's gonna make me look like a bad parent. That's okay.

• 34:34Emma Grede?

  I'm interested in that because I do feel like the, well, especially you, Sarah, basically. You've like, you say shit all the time, right? And people come back at you and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe she said this. I can't believe she expressed this view. And I remember a specific conversation with you, because our kids go to the same school. And so we, we, we have these things every now and again where you'll text me and be like, what do you think about this? And I'll be like, girl, I don't know, what do you think about it? But you're not one who holds back. Like, what happens when you face that backlash? When you get the opinion on your opinion? Like, how do you deal with that?

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Look, I'm not gonna lie. I think for a bit, I was like, I don't care, nothing affects me. It's cool to care. You know? I think for a long time, I thought it was really cool to not care. It's not cool to not care. It's cool to care. I do care. I don't want people to not like me, for sure. I don't. But I, it is very hard for me to not say how I feel. I just gotta stay my course. And the second that I start shaping my brand, my persona, my whatever, to fix, you're not gonna make anyone happy. I can say one thing and then I'm gonna have 10 people go, yes, girl, yes. And then I'll have 20 people be like, she's the worst. I just can't think about it.

• 35:46Emma Grede?

  Do you all scut, do you say, hey, should I post this thing? Should I say this thing?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  I mean, listen, because we are so enmeshed, because we are so entwined, and it's, things are bigger than us. Do you know what I mean? We don't need Netflix coming for us. We don't need, I, there have been a few things where I said.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Hey, Sarah, can you take that down, please?

• 36:04Emma Grede?

  Simmer down, girl.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 36:05Emma Grede?

  You send things like, that's my livelihood too.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, so I've written her saying like, I gotta say, I gotta say, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it's not the best time. Let's let the Emmy nominations come out. And then I'll post that. For the most part, we really do let each other.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  I usually just say, like, if you can just get the grammar correct, then I'm good with you posting whatever you want. Just sell that shit for me.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Look, I think I don't connect to people who are so focused on being liked by everybody. That doesn't connect me to you. It might work for everyone else in this room, but for me, it doesn't make me connect. I'm not gonna look at that person and go, you know what? I trust you. I wanna buy what you're telling me to buy. I wanna go do that thing you're telling me to go do. If you stand for nothing, it's just not for me.

• 36:49Emma Grede?

  Do you think about it in the context, though, of your brand? Like, is that part of the authenticity? That you're gonna say what you think and have those moments of less popularity?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I think because we're outspoken on certain things, we've lost podcast listeners, we've lost favorite daughter customers, and that's okay.

• 37:06Emma Grede?

  Have you won anything?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Have we won anything from that?

• 37:09Emma Grede?

  Has anything come from?

• 37:10Speaker 02

  I think so. That's a good point. Yeah. I mean, listen, people stop me on the street all the time. And they go, I just wanted to say, thank you so much for saying that thing that I think, but I'm too afraid to say.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  I, that happens to me a lot. And.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of Jewish people come up to me and just appreciate support that's unpopular. And it means a lot to them.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Erin's a Jewish woman and she's, you know.

• 37:32Emma Grede?

  Converted Jewish woman.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Converted. Yeah.

• 37:35Emma Grede?

  No, I understand that. I mean, I, I think that when you say something that chimes deeply with people, I have been speaking non-stop in the last like few months. And if somebody else feels like, do you know what, they're a three hour mom too, then they will come up to you and they will say, hey, I can't believe like you said that thing, and that really made me feel seen and it made me feel validated. And I never thought about even moderately saying something for the controversy. And that's really what I'm trying to ask. Like, do you get to the point where you're like, you know what, I'm gonna say that thing because actually it's gonna increase sales, it's gonna get me visibility? That's like, I wonder if that ever happens that way around?

• 38:09Speaker 02

  I'm not that calculated.

• 38:10Emma Grede?

  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, by the way. And I think a lot of people do do that. But I'm asking like, like seriously.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  I should probably be more.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  There's not a lot of strategy going on.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  But look, people are addicted to being mad right now.

• 38:22Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  And I think that there's a lot of bad things happening in the world. We all know this, right? I think everyone is on high, high, high vibration, and not always in a good way. And people are addicted to being mad. I'll catch myself sometimes going down because the algorithm is too smart. It knows when it's getting us.

• 38:39Emma Grede?

  It's very powerful.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  It's so powerful. So I'll sit there and I'll scroll. And by the end of it, I'm furious. I wanna go fight someone. I'm like, I am so, I get it. And I'm somebody who's even keel, I'm pretty, hmm. I'm just saying, I'm not like a psychopath, you know? So I can see myself, how I can get, I can see what it does to everyone else who has a smartphone, who has access to all of these apps.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  I think we're just living our lives as. Honestly, as possible and however it affects, you know, the bottom line is how it affects it. But it's, it's not something that we.

• 39:12Emma Grede?

  It's less strategic than that.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  I'd say there's no strategy.

• 39:15Emma Grede?

  There's no strategy.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:16Emma Grede?

  So let's talk about the things that have strategy because you have a lot of success. How do you think about, because again, you do lots of things that are very different. Do you divide and conquer? Like, I want to understand like the crux of your partnership and how you think about the brand versus the fund versus the podcast versus the writing.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:34Emma Grede?

  And the show, what does that look like?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  A lot of dividing and conquering.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  A lot of dividing and conquering. I was just saying the other day, the way that the name Favorite Daughter came about is so indicative of our partnership, right? It's just, it, it, it's, so here's how it happened. So like 15 years ago, we needed to come up with an LLC for some paperwork with our sisters, right? And Erin didn't even tell anybody. She just went to go sign the papers. This was not an LLC anyone will ever see or know about or anything. And she was like, oh, favorite daughter, right? I don't even think.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  I just named her favorite daughter because.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Cause you have another family. You could have named it.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Well, no, every, you know, our dad would joke with us that each one of us was the favorite. When the others weren't around, everybody's family does that, a joke.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  You could have named it Carpet.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  You know, and no one would have ever known.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I'm a little more clever than that.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  So when it came to the T-shirt collaboration, we were putting 15 different captions, sayings on T-shirts and sweatshirts. Like there was, there were a million. And I said, oh, wait, remember when you did that thing, whatever? That's, that's cute. Should we do favorite daughter on one of the T-shirts? And Erin goes, no.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  I was like, that's stupid.

• 40:40Emma Grede?

  Who's cheesy?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Who's cheesy?

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  I was like, it's too cutesy. It's like, oh, little girl, like, I don't know. It's like for kids or something.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  We have our edgy queen over here.

• 40:48Emma Grede?

  So funny, edgy queen.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I was trying to be edgy.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  The edgy queen was like, I want it to be like, ah, yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  I'm gonna die with my cats, you know? Life is miserable, metal, you know, Metallica. And I was like, I think it's, I think we should do it. And she was like, no.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  And I was just like, okay, we put a little heart on it. And I was like, go to town, girl.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  It was one of 15.

• 41:08Emma Grede?

  How many of those T-shirts did you sell?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Two million dollars.

• 41:11Emma Grede?

  That's actually fucking insane.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Of the T-shirts.

• 41:13Emma Grede?

  That's insane. Along comes the, like, the opportunity to actually create a brand.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:19Emma Grede?

  Tell me you got a lawyer at that point.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  We did a lawyer. Well, we got a lawyer, but very smart people that we trust very much said, this should be a licensing play. A, this should be a licensing play, or B, go raise your own money. Don't give away 50% of the company in a joint venture off the.

• 41:34Emma Grede?

  Oh, you know, I don't believe in that.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  100% of the people we asked who are in the know.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Told us not to do this.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Do not do this partnership with Centric. They said, do not do a 50/50 joint venture.

• 41:53Emma Grede?

  I love a 50/50 joint venture for obvious reasons.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 41:56Emma Grede?

  Because you've got to know what you don't fucking know.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 42:00Emma Grede?

  Right? It's like you guys knew what you were good at. And you could have your partner, I'm assuming, doing all the shit that you don't know.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  We're not going, we're not doing a supply chain.

• 42:09Emma Grede?

  The entire back office infrastructure belongs to your partner.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 42:12Emma Grede?

  And you guys make the creative decisions.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  We do what we know how to do and they do what they know how to do.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  We are not in Portugal or Turkey or sourcing new things, moving factories when all the tariffs are happening. We're in the know.

• 42:23Emma Grede?

  Well, by the way, you and I were texting about tariffs. So it's not like you're completely out of the.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  No, no, no, we're in the weeds.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean that we're removed from it. It means the people that we are partnered with have taught us how to function on that side of the business. The business wouldn't exist without this partnership.

• 42:38Emma Grede?

  Has it been a good partnership for you?

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 42:40Emma Grede?

  And so talk to me about the business. Like, where is the business now? How is it doing?

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Incredible. I mean, look, we're going to be five and a half years old pretty soon.

• 42:47Emma Grede?

  That went quick, didn't it?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  It feels like it really did. We're going super hard in growth this year. We want to open more stores. We were always told for so long, don't open stores. We were told for so long, D to C, D to C, own your customer, do not like have other partners.

• 43:02Emma Grede?

  You have to have any, almost an equal mix.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  You have to have it for visibility.

• 43:06Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  You have to have it. It's free marketing.

• 43:08Emma Grede?

  Today?

• 43:09Speaker 02

  I would love to say that it's 70/30, but it's, it's 60/40. I would say it's 60 for us.

• 43:15Emma Grede?

  D to C.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  60/40, yes.

• 43:16Emma Grede?

  But I, honestly, I think if I'm really honest and I look at the businesses that I'm involved with, the, the more mature, the more it evens out. Like, it starts over here where you're like 90% D to C. And over time, it kind of flattens. And that's just the way of the world. And I think if you look at all of those incredible D to C brands that maybe we were envisaging when we started.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 43:36Emma Grede?

  Everlane, Warby, like, you know, like all of those companies. It's just like, it, it isn't what we thought it was going to be.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  And I think the brands that are winning right now, it's like their distribution. You need the distribution.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  You know, it's important to say that we didn't start this business and then walk away. We don't let any single piece of this business get away from us.

• 43:56Emma Grede?

  So tell me what it's like.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  We don't do that.

• 43:57Emma Grede?

  Working with a partner like this. What's the reality of your business relationship? What have you given up? What have you won? Like?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  We haven't had to give up anything. I mean, the truth is they want to make happen what is important to us. And then they teach us what is not possible and what's possible. So we understand the margins, we understand the bottom line, we understand how to make things profitable. But they understand what our wants and needs are. So we don't ever, ever take our eyes off something. So if we say like, we really don't like the idea of that fabric content, or we really don't like the way that that looks. Or we really don't like how that fits, or we don't want to go into that category too fast. Then they slow down or they speed up. Then they switch things around. Like, they come to us and say, I think we need to.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  They defer us on everything.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they say we need to make two new.

• 44:34Emma Grede?

  They're driving strategy.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Both.

• 44:36Emma Grede?

  It's a true JV partnership.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  It really is. I talk to our CMO five times a day.

• 44:40Emma Grede?

  Amazing.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  No, but this is the divide and conquering. So here is the beauty of our partnership is we would not have as many Favorite Daughter customers if we didn't have Nobody Wants This. So, and there would be nobody, like Erin and I sold Nobody Wants This under a little, small production deal that we had at Disney five years ago. It's important to know, everyone passed on Nobody Wants This. We pitched eight things and they were like.

• 45:02Emma Grede?

  Doesn't that feel so good?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  It was called Shiksa. It wasn't even called Nobody Wants This, and she was going to star in it. So it's like.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  R I P.

• 45:09Emma Grede?

  It all worked out. It all worked out, man. No, but I think that what's really interesting is it was so clear to me how that, the vehicle of the show was going to have this like positive effect on the business.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  I think there's a misconception around how much Favorite Daughter is in Nobody Wants This. There is very little Favorite Daughter in the show.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  I mean, there's enough. There's enough.

• 45:29Emma Grede?

  I think what happened is you two as business women were elevated through the show. And all of the sudden, it was like, oh, what, what else are they doing? Oh, Favorite Daughter. And so it was, I don't look at that product placement.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  No, I say it because.

• 45:41Emma Grede?

  You were credible.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's written about that we're smart because we put Favorite Daughter in Nobody Wants This. And the truth is, I was really careful and it's why I feel like the need to say it is that, you know, there could be a conflict of interest there that I was really mindful of, which is that there is a costume director on the show. She decides, you know, what she thinks all the characters should be wearing. Of course, I make the final decision about what I like. But every single time that I'm sent five look options for every character, for every scene, which I do look at and I do choose, I, I know if there's Favorite Daughter in one of the five. Absolutely, 100% of the time, I choose the one that I think that they look best in. And nine times out of 10, that isn't Favorite Daughter, just because that's how it goes. And it doesn't make a difference to me. I always want what's best for the show.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  So there's no like agenda of pushing things together if they don't naturally fit.

• 46:33Emma Grede?

  I think that's clear.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:34Emma Grede?

  Okay, it feels really clear. What is the ambition for the brand? Like, I know you say you don't have big strategic plans, but like, is there something that you guys are specifically working towards? Are you working towards an exit? Are you working to just grow? Are you just trying to take money out of the company every year so you can have a nice?

• 46:50Speaker 02

  I mean, look, we want to open, I think we want to have 10 stores. The goal is 10 stores in the next, you know, 18 months. Like, we want to go quickly.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  And we think in categories too. Handbags are coming out.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Launching handbags.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Now we launched shoes. We have, um, we have other categories that we're working on that we try to roll, roll out slowly and responsibly. Cause it's sort of to your question of when does it get away from us? The answer hopefully is never, because then it won't feel as congruent as it does today. You know, the reason why the brand feels like us is because we have our hand in everything. And if we let it get away from us and somebody else is making those decisions, I do think that that's when things start to feel like they are making cheaper decisions and that things don't feel as authentic anymore. We don't want it to get away from us. So we really want to keep it in our control as long as possible so that it feels authentic.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  I also feel like there's some judgment when, and maybe it's just with women, I don't know. But there's judgment around, yeah, I'd love to be acquired. Like, there's nothing wrong with being like, I'd love a windfall. I would love Favorite Daughter to get acquired one day. That is my main source of income. So I, I say here, it's my main source of income. Yeah. I mean, we have obviously other channels, but Favorite Daughter, that is my main source of income.

• 47:59Emma Grede?

  So Favorite Daughter is profitable and actually paying you guys.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:02Emma Grede?

  Love that.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  And has been for like three years.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  And it has been. We've been profitable for a while. But, you know, I, I think it's okay to say, yeah, it would be fantastic.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  One day.

• 48:12Emma Grede?

  Why would it not be okay? What the fuck is the point otherwise? Like, I don't even understand that.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  We vilify founders. I, I guess, look, we did not.

• 48:20Emma Grede?

  What are you doing? Like, what, the love of making?

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, this isn't charity.

• 48:23Emma Grede?

  Button up shirts?

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Guess what?

• 48:25Emma Grede?

  I'm not being like, I'm no disrespect to anything because I make like blue jeans and button up shirts too. But you're not, do you know what I mean? You're not Christine Dior. You're not doing it for the art form. You're going to build a company. It's going to be really profitable. Well, hopefully you'll have an exit and you'll have a windfall. Like, aren't there wise?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  No, of course, we want, we would love.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  We do a lot of charity in our life. This is not charity.

• 48:42Emma Grede?

  That's not.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  We would love for Favorite Daughter to be bought, but I don't think we would want to leave the business in that.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Hypothetically, if somebody came and said, here's X amount of dollars, we want to buy Favorite Daughter. And we don't need you. I would be like, really pretty bummed, you know?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  I'd be so sad.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  I'd be sitting here with a bigger bank account.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, if it's a billion dollars, I'd be like, I could get over it.

• 49:03Emma Grede?

  I mean, it really depends. You can feel sad.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  I could get over it.

• 49:05Emma Grede?

  And then you can be like, oh, I'm happier.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  But like, look, I was aimless for a lot of my life. I was purposeless for a lot of my life. Favorite Daughter gives me real purpose. And it feels great to get out of bed with the excitement of what can we do today? What can we do today to gain one more customer? What can we do today to endear ourselves to the customer that we already have that hasn't shopped for a while? I will call our CMO and I will, I know the name of our top 20 customers. I know their names. I know their occupations. I know where they live. I will call her. I will say, has so and so shopped? When was the last time she shopped? Okay, you know what? When is her birthday? I want to send her a gift from me and Erin, send it to her.

• 49:45Emma Grede?

  Damn right.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Send, like, I do this all the time. So I think if I didn't have that-

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Sarah and I got into some disagreement about something where she's like, this thing isn't good. And I was like, no, I think it's good. And she goes, oh, really? Well, our number three shopper hasn't shopped in seven months. And she used to buy every single cut of those jeans and she hasn't bought them. And I was like, okay, psychopath. I was like, you need like, a drink.

• 50:05Emma Grede?

  No, if anything, it's gonna dodge you- To the truth, it's your top customers. Like, when they stop, like, the shit, I, I literally have seen things go in decline. I also, I always look at the staff, because I'm like, when your staff stop buying, like, when I see staff, like, purchasing go from one number to this number, I'm like, oh, I'm about to have a shit season.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a really good barometer.

• 50:25Emma Grede?

  It is, it's, it's the number one thing, because if, because they're buying on a discount.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, they have a good discount.

• 50:32Emma Grede?

  Oh, shit. Like, it really is not good. Then you know you've got a dud of a season. So let's talk about the money. Because you're doing the most, you're doing a lot of things. Like, where are you making money? You said, yes, you're making money in Favorite Daughter. Like, who can make in-

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Podcast. Podcast. I mean, look, everything we do is generating profit, right? Because, like, finally, but for so many years, it did not. So podcast, production company, Favorite Daughter, brand deals. But our brand deals, we are now a little bit more careful with. It used to be-

• 51:09Emma Grede?

  Are you 50/50 in everything?

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Well, production company, we're 50/50, but as a writer, she's got different income. Podcast, 50/50.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  And nobody wants us, it's different, because I have writing fees.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Of course. And by the way, as she should. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's crazy. Being a writer is awful. But everything else is 50/50. But we do other things. She's on the board of the EWG. I'm the face of Bobbi Brown Cosmetic. Like, we do-

• 51:34Emma Grede?

  So you do a deal over there with Bobbi Brown, that money's going to you. You're sitting on a board and you're being, you know, remunerated for that, that's going to you. Everything else is 50/50.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  But then I'm on the phone with Greg Renfro going, Erin should be the face of counter beauty products. Like, you should, she's the perfect face for you.

• 51:48Emma Grede?

  I love that she's out here pitching you. Don't you love her for that?

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Always. What's good for Erin is good for me. And what's good for me is good for Erin.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  But Sarah's more motivated by money than I am.

• 51:59Emma Grede?

  No shit.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Well, Erin has a husband. And Erin is in a-

• 52:04Emma Grede?

  And you no longer have a husband.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Erin is in a dual income household. I am in a different financial situation.

• 52:09Emma Grede?

  But I also have the feeling-

• 52:10Speaker 02

  And she makes more money as a writer.

• 52:12Emma Grede?

  No doubt. But I also have the feeling that you are just more motivated by money, regardless.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's-

• 52:16Emma Grede?

  And I think you're, you're trying to know one, so I'm just saying-

• 52:19Speaker 02

  I think because of my scarcity mindset, I always feel like I'm gonna have nothing.

• 52:26Emma Grede?

  Fair enough. I mean, you guys meet a lot-

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Because I wasn't different before I was married, to be clear.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, she wasn't more motivated by money.

• 52:31Emma Grede?

  That's what I mean. I think I get that from you guys, just as like, the default, who, who you are.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  By the way, I forced her to write, nobody wants this. I was like, bitch, typey, typey.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  What are you doing?

• 52:40Emma Grede?

  It's like, get out of it, girl.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  No, literally, I'm like, where are the pages?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Because once I got married, I did sort of think, like, honestly, I'm, I'm good. I'm kind of good to just chill.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  I was like, Erin, Disney is paying us. We are in an overall deal at Disney. That means they pay us to generate content. We have no content. I would like, write a show.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  I feel like Britney Spears sometimes. She's just making me work.

• 53:08Emma Grede?

  I want to understand what you think that women get consistently wrong about money that perhaps men don't.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I think that what women don't know about money that men do is that you deserve to have it.

• 53:23Emma Grede?

  Actual, factual, facts.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think there's a lot of, like, apologizing around wanting to get paid for something. And there shouldn't be. Like, you were saying, like, it's okay to want your business to succeed. It's okay to want to make money off of something that doesn't-

• 53:36Emma Grede?

  It's okay to charge for shit. It's okay to be paid and remunerated for your services.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Men are very comfortable asking for what they think that they're worth.

• 53:42Emma Grede?

  And what do you think the reason for that is?

• 53:44Speaker 01

  I think it's taught at a really young age. I mean, we're all responsible now with daughters and sons to teach us, to teach our kids something different.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Don't you also feel like, you know, the joke, like, all the big deals are done on the golf course. All my male friends who are in finance, or investors, or private equity, or whatever, they all bring each other in on all the deals. If there's an SPV, if there's an allocation into like, a friends and family IPO, they bring all their friends, all their male friends. I don't know, I don't have-

• 54:15Speaker 01

  We like, close the door behind us.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  I don't have that many women. There's also a scarcity mindset where we feel like there's only one availability, right? There's only one spot.

• 54:24Emma Grede?

  And listen, for so long, that has been the truth. And so I understand why women feel like that. But I actually think that it just takes a shift in behavior.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  I'm getting all this credit for being healthy around my money mindset, but it just made me think that when nobody wants us hit big, and then I was offered a bigger overall deal, my first thought was, I don't want my friends to find out how much money I just made.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  It's not that I didn't-

• 54:48Speaker 01

  I was like, well, I'm gonna tell them.

• 54:51Emma Grede?

  You're like, this bitch is gonna tell them anyway. You might as well take it.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Don't work.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  But it's not that I didn't think someone would be happy for me, anything like that. It just felt like, I don't know, it's easy to be happy for your friend when they're down, or when they're struggling, or they just came up. But if they really come into money, I don't know. Maybe it shifts how people interact with you, or how they feel towards you. And, and I didn't, I didn't want any, like, negativity around it. And so I kind of wanted it to be under the radar.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Facts. It's true. You didn't tell anybody. People were like, what did she just make? I was like, hmm.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Don't ask her.

• 55:25Emma Grede?

  Oh, that's so funny. Because I tell everybody.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Really?

• 55:28Emma Grede?

  Yes. You have to remember, like, I come from, like, I come from a place where money was spoken about with ease, right? Like, when you don't come from a lot, it's almost the opposite. You're like, telling everybody what you have all the time, even when you don't have it. So I have an ease of speaking about money. But what happens when you don't talk about money, when you avoid the subject of money, the money avoids you. And so what I realized is the minute you start speaking about it, the minute you're forthright with what you want, the minute you say the fucking number, like, it attracts it to you. And I don't mean in some woo-woo way. I mean, you asked for something. You were clear about it. And it's like a self fulfilling prophecy, but you gotta say it. Like, you literally have to say, oh, I made X. And by the way, the next time you go and

• 56:10Emma Grede?

  speak to X, Y, and Z studio, like, you need to ask for that, and you should probably use this story to do it. And by the way, I paid them X to do my deal.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  I love that you do that. Yeah, you don't gatekeep. That's really great.

• 56:22Emma Grede?

  I'm the least gatekeeper-y person ever.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  You know, when you say that the way you grew up is a part of the reason, I think when you grow up, I know, when you grow up the way that we did, there is a lot of resentment around you being the girl that has money or access to things, or a nicer car, or a nicer house. And so at least my instinct was always, like, sort of hide it a little bit. Because I want them to like me.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  I do think that there's like, a thing, though, where people feel like people that, and you're gonna deal, deal with this with your kids, and I'll deal with it with mine and you, where it's almost like, well, you don't deserve it. Because you were raised in private, so you don't deserve it. I do think that we have dealt with a lot of people feeling that we don't deserve the success we have because of the privilege that we grew up in, without people even having a fucking clue-

• 57:07Emma Grede?

  How do you feel about that?

• 57:09Speaker 02

  On how we grew up. We grew up very different than people assume we grew up.

• 57:11Emma Grede?

  But how does that make you, like, genuinely now, as you sit here with the success that you've had, knowing the work that you put in, and I know you, I know that you both work extremely hard, because I've never seen you not working, not chasing something.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:25Emma Grede?

  And so what, like, how do you actually feel about that now? Like, are you at the point where you're like, I don't give a shit? Or are you still somewhat hiding and somewhat apologizing?

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's hard to not compare yourself to other people. We're human, and it is hard to not look at other people going, why don't they get, why is there no stigma around them?

• 57:45Speaker 01

  We do feel like there are a lot of people in this industry who are doing a tenth of what we're doing, and never get called out for having a famous parent. And that is weird to us. We catch more strays than other people. And I don't know why, because we're doing a lot.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  I think people act like our dad is like Brad Pitt or something. Our dad is like a behind the scenes musician who is wildly talented and works for everything he has. But I guess there's a part of us that feels like we have had to be sort of elite in everything we've done to be taken seriously.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  We're not in music. It's not like we're following in someone's footsteps. But I ask myself a lot, often, you know, what is that? And, and in some ways, I think our resistance to it attracts it. You know, the fact that it bothers us only draws it closer. And that's something that just, like, we have to figure out.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  I was thinking about it the other day. I was like, even at 16, right? When most 16 year olds would want to, like, be on TV, right? Like, there was our, our dad and his, they had a reality show. And even at like, 16 years old, we were like, we don't want to be on a reality show.

• 58:45Emma Grede?

  You're like, that's not our path.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Let's do it different. By the way, being on reality TV, that is amazing for so many people. Like, that is, there's no shade on that. By the way, we look back and we're like, we probably should have done that.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  We just thought that people wouldn't take us seriously if we went down that path. And now, reality stars are taken really seriously, and we're called someone's daughter. And it sucks.

• 59:02Emma Grede?

  What do you actually want someone to know who had a different start to you guys?

• 59:06Speaker 01

  About us?

• 59:07Emma Grede?

  What do you say? Well, I, I, it's a two-fold question, actually. What do you want them to know about you? But also, what would you say to a woman that actually feels resentful?

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Of course. Absolutely. Listen to this, going, oh, cute clothing company. You know, my dad, you're, I don't have a dad that can buy me a clothing company.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, look, I think that relationships are more important than we talk about. I think that, and Erin always says this, again, I don't think you came up with it, but like, follow your envy, right?

• 59:36Speaker 01

  No, I did not come up with it.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  No, I know, I'm saying you did.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  I think like Glennon Doyle maybe did.

• 59:39Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  It's such.

• 59:41Emma Grede?

  You might be right.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  A good one, because.

• 59:43Emma Grede?

  You have to follow your jealousy for sure.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Yes, you have to follow it. I spent a lot of time looking at what other people were doing, feeling jealous, or looking at other people being like, well, why don't I have that? Or why can't I make it an acting? Or why can't I? And it does nothing but just block your blessings. It, the universe does not reward that mentality. So I do think that, to the person listening, I think that person that you might be jealous of, or that person that is doing way better than you at the office, or better than you at the company, endear yourself to that person. I think find that person and say, I want to learn from you. You can't replace showing up and wanting to connect with other people. Like, that's irreplaceable. Like, I don't want to hire the Wharton, you know, graduate who comes and sits in front

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  of me and has no personality.

• 1:00:30Emma Grede?

  No.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  I, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in being around the person who sits there and might say, I'm not the most qualified for this. I know you're going to meet other people that are going to be way better for this, but I'm going to tell you why I'm of value. And that's the person that I'm like way more endeared to. So I think if you were listening, I think everything is at our disposal now. We have social media, we have YouTube, we have TikTok, we have all these things. I get way less views than some like random mom that does, has no connections, whose dad isn't in the music business. She's crushing way harder than I am on TikTok. Like, I, I don't know.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  I also think that to that person who might feel that way, I think it's a natural instinct to put ourselves in the inferior position and somebody else in the dominant power position, right? Like, you girls are sitting here and you have all this and I have nothing, or I want those things and you don't deserve it, or I don't want you to have it because it's taking it away from me, or I deserve it. And I can only call it back to the thing we were talking about earlier where I couldn't get pregnant for seven years and there was everyone else around me is getting pregnant.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Your success is not my failure. And I never felt like a victim. And because of that, I don't sit here today and define myself by my worst experience. I'm not melodramatic about it because I don't want my story to be 20 rounds of IVF. That's just one thing that happened, but also all these amazing, beautiful things have happened in my life. And I think that we all get stuck really leaning on the story that victimizes ourselves and decide that that's who I am. So I think the person who's listening to that might be putting themselves lower than us, and it's easy to feel resentful, but like, you should not look at yourself that way.

• 1:02:22Emma Grede?

  When, um, and this is like something I think about when I think of you two all the time, like when honesty and authenticity like is your brand, and so defining of the way you do business and the way that you've found success and the way that you show up every day, like, is there a difference between like just being honest and being who you are and the idea of like having to perform that to stay consistent with what it is that you're doing and how you're becoming successful?

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  That's so interesting. I feel like we're at this sort of inflection point with the brand and with the podcast and with everything, because things are changing so fast. Discoverability is changing, how we're, you know, it's like, I think we wrestle all the time because we don't have like a social media team. Erin's not on TikTok. I have like four followers on TikTok. I post like once a year, like, I think that we struggle, or I know I struggle with this thing of like, wait a minute, we need to be out there more and we need to be more highly produced and we need to be more professional and we need to have more of a social presence and, but it's not authentic to me.

• 1:03:23Emma Grede?

  But that says so much about the certainty of like, and the clarity of who you are, right? That this, you know, you started this conversation by saying that you had a lot of insecurity.

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Emma Grede?

  That's actually the opposite of that. That's like a, a self-possession that you have that's like really clear about what you shouldn't be doing.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  No, but I wrestle, I do wrestle with, and then I go back to, okay, but if we, if I start doing TikToks, people are going to see right through that. I mean, I post on TikTok occasionally, but if I start doing this thing that I think people want from us, then I think it, I don't know that it would resonate with, I don't know that it would do what I'm hoping it would do.

• 1:04:02Emma Grede?

  Yeah, or I also think because there's just a, a cost to anything that doesn't feel right.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  That's like incongruent.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  No, I'm launching, I'm launching like this thing, sort of Q1 next year, and I looked into what it would cost.

• 1:04:15Emma Grede?

  I'm so glad you brought that up. I kind of got the feeling. Are you launching some kind of like, um, what did I get?

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Like a one SKU.

• 1:04:21Emma Grede?

  Like a vitamin wellness situation.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Emma Grede?

  I love that.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  By the way, that was not born out of me being like, I need to be the founder of another company. This was born out of, it's the thing that I do every single morning. It's the thing that didn't exist. I was on my way to the airport, literally Googling all the ingredients that I take in one, thinking like, I'm just going to buy it because I need it, because it's missing from my life and it didn't exist. And I called my business partner, Phil, and I go, but I think I need to spin this up. Like, what would it cost? Like, how much we can invest, my fund can invest, your fund can invest, I think we need X amount of dollars, I think we could do this for like a million and a half dollars. Like, what, do we want to hire somebody who's like a crazy P and L monster that can run the crap out of a P and L? Do we need a mass marketer? Like, what do we need?

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  You can do so much with AI now. I mean, you can create an entire business plan.

• 1:05:13Emma Grede?

  An entire team.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  On AI. I mean, we created the entire, just like on, yeah.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  But I think it's good for you to say that because.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  That's accessible to so many people, right?

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  And you can hire thing on chat. The entire thing.

• 1:05:24Emma Grede?

  And were you launching when?

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Q1.

• 1:05:26Emma Grede?

  And you raised, uh.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  1.5.

• 1:05:28Emma Grede?

  1.5?

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:05:30Emma Grede?

  Can't do that on chat.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  You can't, and look, it could be nothing or it could be something.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  No, but I mean, you make it look like a real brand. I mean, Sarah said this thing to me, I'm like, who made this? And it's like, ChatGPT made it.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  No, I did, I did everything on.

• 1:05:45Emma Grede?

  I mean, I have no doubt, I do think that there is.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  All the branding and all that.

• 1:05:48Emma Grede?

  Yeah, but there's something so amazing about the fact that that is, was just not possible.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Emma Grede?

  Right? Because at the end of the day, you could have done that whole thing on ChatGPT. I'm sure you could, you know, you guys are used to starting things at such a level now. I'm sure you don't need 1.5 million. You could launch it in a different way, i- in a different, you know, landscape, whatever it might be and do it more cheaply.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  I need to hire a great CEO and a great CEO costs money.

• 1:06:11Emma Grede?

  Because you're at a level now where whatever you do, there is an expectation around it. Do you know what I mean? It's going to have visibility, you have big ambitions for it. There's so many different ways to start a business. And I think that really trying to utilize like what is out there now and what's the uniqueness of the time that we're living in and what does that enable you to do is the surefire way everyone's going to be able to start things.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  I was thinking the other night, I was like, I'm not on TikTok. This business is going to fail. I was like, I don't, I don't, so I have so many insecurities still, or, you know, of course, even around doing this, I, I'm still going like, oh God, how embarrassing if I make it a big thing and then like, you know, everyone has all these high expectations, like, oh, you have a following, so it's going to do, it doesn't work like that.

• 1:06:56Emma Grede?

  It doesn't work.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  That is not, those days are long over. Let's attach a celebrity. I'm not referring to myself as a celebrity, but, and then all of a sudden you have a brand. No, no, no, no, no. Doesn't work anymore.

• 1:07:07Emma Grede?

  So what even gives you, and I, I give this question to both of you, what even are you thinking about as next for yourself? Like, what are you aspiring to specifically for this brand, but also like more broadly in your life and your career now?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Everything. I mean, I would say we're really excited about this. We've, we have a bunch of shows, other shows in development that, as it.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Destination Wedding was announced.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Who bought Destination Wedding? They also bought two of our other projects to have.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  So I'm writing another show on the break right now.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  We've optioned a couple of books. We've optioned a few books that have been bought.

• 1:07:43Emma Grede?

  Oh, I heard you, you optioned Tinks's book, right?

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then we optioned another novel that's kind of like a sexy, sexy hour-long mystery.

• 1:07:52Emma Grede?

  Really sexy.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Sexy mystery.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Which we have a fantastic writer who is writing it.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Um, look, I think Favorite Daughter is so exciting, obviously. I think you don't want to wait too long if you want to be acquired, right? Like, I think a lot of brands find themselves in that situation where you've waited too long.

• 1:08:09Emma Grede?

  No man's land, you're out.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  You're out, right? If you get too big, people aren't, they're like, what are we going to do with you? Exactly. So I think.

• 1:08:16Emma Grede?

  I mean, there's not a lot of buyers even when you don't get big.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:20Emma Grede?

  It's a fucking tough space. It isn't what it was 10 years ago. Let's just be fair about that.

• 1:08:24Speaker 01

  To be clear, the audience should know that Sarah asked Emma if she was willing to buy Favorite Daughter before we started.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  I did, I was like, Emma, Venmo me.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  She said, uh, she said no.

• 1:08:32Emma Grede?

  Talk to Sheen, they seem to be buying things right now.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  No, thank you, Sheen.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Well, I read.

• 1:08:37Emma Grede?

  Would that, would that be out of your ethics?

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  It's not even in the conversation.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Guys, this would be a problem if she.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Everlane, I'm, I'm really disappointed in Everlane. It's really sad.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Whoa, shots fired. Why? Take the money.

• 1:08:48Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love this. Go on, have to, you too.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  No. Do not take that money.

• 1:08:51Emma Grede?

  You would not take that money.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  You don't know what the circumstances of those founders are. Who knows?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  I know, I wouldn't take that money. I would not take anybody doing that kind of fast fashion. No. It's making the world a worse place. I could not participate in that.

• 1:09:03Emma Grede?

  Wow.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  We're going to have a problem.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  I was just going to say.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  She's a boss. I'm like, I have a meeting with the CEO of Sheen.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Like our favorite daughter.

• 1:09:13Emma Grede?

  And there is the split.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  And that was the last time they ever.

• 1:09:19Emma Grede?

  They were seen together, she and Split the Sisters. I absolutely love it. Erin, what are you aspiring to?

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  I just really aspire to like balancing it all. I'm really, really in my mom and wife era and I really love the opportunity.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Erin wants to compost. That's what she wants to do.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to like just make sourdough bread from scratch. I think success, like real, real success is having a really strong home life and a really strong professional life and them working well together. I want to put my daughter to bed at night. I want to give her a bath and I want to make my husband dinner and have and like meet his friends and go on work trips with him and him come to events for me and us be proud of each other. And I want like, I want to have the, the full scope. I don't want to have a life that is so skewed in one area that everything else suffers. I really don't.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  No, I love that. Erin's like, I want to be a trad wife. She loves it.

• 1:10:13Emma Grede?

  But that's, but that's not also what she's saying because you're saying that you actually want a big professional life. But you place an enormous amount of value on your family life. I think that I would mirror that exactly. I'm just interested how you're doing that and what it actually looks like right now. Like, are you figuring that out?

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  What it really looks like is that I'm really honest with the people that I work with, that that's a huge priority to me. And I don't want to feel embarrassed to say, guys, I'm not going to get on that call because I want, it's bath time. Or worse than that, or better than that, depending on how you look at it. If I get a text for work or a call at eight o'clock at night and I'm in bed with my husband and we're watching Love Island, then I'm going to say to them, guys, I'm in bed with my husband, watching Love Island, and we can do this tomorrow morning at nine AM. Because that's important to me. I want to laugh with my husband and eat frozen yogurt in bed and like watch TV together and talk about bad reality shows. And like, that's how I connect.

• 1:11:05Emma Grede?

  And are you in the position right now with everything that you have going on and all the ambition and all the opportunity that everything is bringing you? That you can say no to that call at eight o'clock in bed?

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  At forty-three, she can finally, after all these years. Like, it's important, I think, for the audience to know that your life has never been like that. So because of your grit and conviction and hard work, you are now finally, because I just don't want people to think that that, because that is not the mindset you should have.

• 1:11:32Emma Grede?

  Because 10 years ago, you've perhaps said, that wasn't your choice.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I would have loved to have had that, of course, but no, I couldn't do that. I mean, I remember when I was writing pilots in my thirties and I would be writing all day, back and forth, back and forth. Then I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go to a yoga class, you know, like try to protect my peace. And I remember one specific time I like roll out my yoga mat and I got a call that was like, the studio needs a new pages. And I was like, okay, I'll do it in the morning. And they were like, roll up your little thing and get back in the car and go home. You're going to do it tonight. And I was like, oh, right. I work for you. You don't work for me. Like, I'm on your time, your timeframe, not my own. And so, yeah, it is a privilege to be able to have a balance. But I also think that we live in a culture where it's like you brag about how little sleep you get and how, you know, you're at the office till midnight. And I just don't want to be.

• 1:12:20Emma Grede?

  Deeply unfashionable now. Like, I don't see that that is.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Our writer's room runs from 10 to three. And that's something that actually Jenny Connor taught me, which I'm really grateful for. Because she said, you do not need to have a writer's room that goes longer than 10 to three. Nothing is getting solved at six o'clock at night where everyone's sick of being with each other and they want to be at home. And so having a happy work environment where you respect each other's time and you put in like a condensed amount of time where you're really focused. No one's leaving for the doctor's appointments. No one's going and taking phone calls. No one's like checking Instagram because you're locked in for this short period of time.

• 1:12:54Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  And so I'm into being productive in spurts of time, but like letting yourself have a life.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  That's how that Bill Ackman school, you know, the Alpha School, have you heard about that?

• 1:13:05Emma Grede?

  Yes, I have.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  That is their sort of philosophy, is you go super hard for three hours, three hours of undivided locked in attention and then you're off.

• 1:13:15Emma Grede?

  I also think as female founders and executives and leaders and all of the rest of it, you have to create the conditions that you want to like grow, right? It's like, it's, it's down to you to say, this writer's room is 10 till three. Because I want to create the conditions, not just for myself, but for every other writer to be able to leave if they're a parent and go and do bath and bedtime. And I think that the minute you do that, you allow those conditions to permeate through the company, through the writer's room, through whatever it is that you're doing.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  But not everybody can live like that, you guys.

• 1:13:50Emma Grede?

  No, of course not. Everybody can.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  But it is a balance.

• 1:13:52Emma Grede?

  There is a point at which that becomes your reality, but it's also a choice, right? Because it's like, I could be in my office every day till 10 o'clock. Like, it's just a choice.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's also, it's.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  You work for yourself. You work for yourself so you can create that.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  You sacrifice a lot to be able to have these choices. I wasn't with my daughter on her second birthday. I had to be in New York for the show. I didn't have a choice. Nobody cared that it's my daughter's birthday. That's where I have to be. And that's the sacrifice I make so that I can also say I want to be at bath time. There are a lot of things that I have to miss. There's a lot of times that she's crying and I'm walking out the door because I have to start a meeting.

• 1:14:28Emma Grede?

  But that's a really important part. And I think that's the bit to share because the, that you, you make choices, but it doesn't mean that every choice you make fits and suits your agenda. I leave the office every fucking day at five, but still there are times when I don't get to do what it is that I want to do.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but were you leaving the office at five, 10 years ago?

• 1:14:46Emma Grede?

  Are you fucking crazy?

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  You were there probably till midnight.

• 1:14:48Emma Grede?

  Till like, no, like, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  So it's a give and take. It's like, we have these all-consuming careers. We have, we sacrifice a lot to do that. And then in return, we're able to set some parameters so that we can live peacefully.

• 1:15:03Emma Grede?

  And that's what you aspire to.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Yes. You're living your dream. Like, you are now living your dream a lot. I mean, she was working at Free People as a shopkeeper right before you got the Ryan Murphy job at 28 years old. Like, it's not, she was literally working at the Brentwood Free People where all of her friends and peers would come in at 28 years old. So I just think people look at us and I just don't think they see the full picture of how.

• 1:15:28Emma Grede?

  Are you living the life that you always wanted to, the pair of you?

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  I definitely am.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  I didn't see myself being 45, two kids. A, I really just didn't ever think I'd be successful. I think like, when you're an actress and a model, putting yourself in a place to just be treated like such shit, you know what I mean? The rejection is, should be studied, like what it does to you. What it does to your mental state, what it does to your self-esteem, what it does to all of it should be studied. It's so toxic. And I think it's, and by the way, no one forced me to do it. Let's be clear. This isn't like, poor me. I chose, nobody asked me to do it, you know? And in fact, they were like, we actually don't want you to do it. We have no, yeah, we have no work for you. But I think, I never imagined that we would have the career,

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  the career that we have. I did not. I've never been the most spiritual, but I am now. I thank the universe every day for things that I don't have yet. And I've been doing that for two years. And it's like, I'll be driving or I'll wake up or, and I'll thank the universe for, and I'll be specific as to what you were just saying, really specific. And it's amazing how the universe rewards that, you know? Closed mouths don't get fed. So I just, I ask for things that I don't even think are possible.

• 1:16:47Emma Grede?

  Oh, I love that. All right. On that note, I'm going to move to some rapid fire. Okay. All right. In one word, what is your sister's biggest strength?

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Oh, her work ethic.

• 1:16:58Emma Grede?

  Sarah?

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Her writing. But professionally, right?

• 1:17:02Emma Grede?

  What have you won?

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, she's a, she's a fantastic mom and aunt. So if we're going to like go that, like truly, I think Josie, my, you know Josie. I think Josie's like, I think I want Erin to be my mom. And that's okay. I'm happy with that.

• 1:17:16Emma Grede?

  That is so cute.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  She's very maternal. She's very maternal.

• 1:17:19Emma Grede?

  What is your most recent hot take?

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Oh, jeez. Oh, God. All of Sarah's takes are hot.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know. Is that, is it appropriate?

• 1:17:27Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  Oh, God. What? I have so many. Every day of my life is a hot take.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  I said recently, men shouldn't wear Birkenstocks. That was a real hot take.

• 1:17:38Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Oh, God, does Jens wear a Birkenstock?

• 1:17:41Emma Grede?

  No, Jens doesn't have the feet for a Birkenstock. I'm not like, you know, he's not a Birkenstock and crock man. He's like Euro guy, you know?

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:48Emma Grede?

  He has like a.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Like a loafer?

• 1:17:49Emma Grede?

  Sensible.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Guys, if you want to know the hot takes, listen to our podcast.

• 1:17:52Emma Grede?

  Listen, there you go. Plug, plug it in.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  Ditch Emma's podcast. She's got enough listeners. She ditched that.

• 1:17:58Emma Grede?

  Move on over. Move on over to hear Sarah talk some more shit.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  Emma's doing great. All right. We need you.

• 1:18:06Emma Grede?

  What is a brand you wish you'd invested in, but you missed?

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Okay, I know mine. I think.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Oh, there's a, there's a new water company called Lunin that I wish we'd invested in. And also Chamberlain Coffee, we passed on.

• 1:18:19Emma Grede?

  I just had her on.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  And I think that I wish, because they're opening a lot of stores. It's doing well.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  I met the, um, the ShopMy founders early. I met Alexa Von Tobo, brought them, introduced us. And the valuation was already so out of this world, but I still wish, it would have been great to just be in their world. It's so directly connected to what we do. We utilize ShopMy at favorite daughter.

• 1:18:44Emma Grede?

  So much.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  So much. And I spoke to them so early and I just sort of felt like, I always try as an investor to not get enticed by sexy cap tables and by, I tried for so long, it was like, well, let's just write a check, even though the valuation is totally outside of our mandate.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Sarah, you're really bad at rapid fire.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:19:02Emma Grede?

  No, no, no. I'm really bad at rapid fire too.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just.

• 1:19:05Emma Grede?

  You should have been in ShopMy.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  I know. And I could have been. And I wish I was. I wish we were.

• 1:19:11Emma Grede?

  Can you tell us anything about season three of Nobody Wants This?

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Everyone dies.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  I'm in it.

• 1:19:18Emma Grede?

  I love that you're in it.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  No, and she's really good. It's you should act more. Yeah, she is really good.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  I play like a crazy girl named Nicole.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  So she's not really acting.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  She's playing herself.

• 1:19:30Emma Grede?

  Is there a book that changed your life?

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Ooh, I don't know that this one changed my life, but there's a book called Write It Down, Make It Happen, and it taught me how valuable and powerful pen to paper is. Your Notes app is fine, but it is not doing what pen to paper does and that you can truly create the life you want hand to paper. I have literally with specificity been, I have been the architect of where I am now. I never thought it was possible. I didn't think it would actually come true. But looking back at some of the old journals and the things that I prayed for and the things that I was too afraid to write because they seemed too far fetched, I wrote. But I would say that book taught me how to manifest.

• 1:20:16Emma Grede?

  I love that.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  As a writer, I would say there's a lot of, a lot of books that, you have your answer. Thank you.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Jesus. Sarah, as a writer, there's a lot of books that have changed my life because they're like, it's storytelling, you know? So The Fountainhead for sure changed my life because I was like, holy shit.

• 1:20:35Speaker 02

  It's so long.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  It was how you write a story like this, all like Ken Follet, Ken Follet books. Like it got me so wrapped up in, in like historical fiction, which made me like want to be a writer. Honestly, this is so silly, but Memoirs of a Geisha, when I was like in like 10th grade, I was like, wait, I love this story. Like all of these stories made me like The Prophet. These are books that just made me go like, could I ever make somebody feel something like this? Like, could I ever tell a story this way?

• 1:21:04Emma Grede?

  Cahill Gubran, The Prophet?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, obviously my writing's nothing like that, but it was still.

• 1:21:08Emma Grede?

  That's so interesting that that's informed the fact that you wanted to be a storyteller.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Very much because you're, because he was giving you life, he is giving you life lessons in the form of a story. So it's like very subtle, the way that you absorb it.

• 1:21:20Emma Grede?

  Poetic way that that's like really interesting.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  We're so different. I'm like, have you read Ray Dalio's book?

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, we're so different.

• 1:21:27Emma Grede?

  It's one of my favorite books. Principles is one of my favorite books.

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  Erin's literally like, who's Ray Dalio?

• 1:21:31Emma Grede?

  No, but I love that. By the way, between Ray Dalio and Cahill Gubran, there you get me.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:21:39Emma Grede?

  I'm like the little bridge.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Okay, you know what? We'll have lunch too.

• 1:21:42Emma Grede?

  Fucking hell, she's not invited now.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:46Emma Grede?

  You have so many.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Damn it.

• 1:21:47Emma Grede?

  I love the pair of you. Thank you beyond.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Thanks for having us.

• 1:21:51Emma Grede?

  You two are just fabulous.

• 1:21:56Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Audacy. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Audacy are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carla Stelgardo. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:22:38Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Josephina Francis, Hillary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.