Pod Insights Aspire with Emma Grede How Dr. Barbara Sturm Built a Billion Dollar Beauty Brand with Zero Training About this episode How does a doctor with zero beauty training build one of the most influential skincare brands in the world? In this episode of Aspire, Emma Grede sits down with Dr. Barbara Sturm — the founder behind a global, anti-inflammatory skincare empire — to reveal the true story you’ve never heard.
Dr. Sturm opens up about the bullets she dodged, the bets she made, and the risks that almost broke her. From being dismissed by the beauty industry to scaling a brand from €350 to a brand valued at over a billion dollars. Dr. Sturm shares the mindset, the science, and the steps it took to build something no one believed was possible.
You’ll learn:
-How she built a global brand without investors
-The mindset every ambitious woman needs to scale
-What she wishes every founder knew before starting
-Why she never used retinol, and what she does instead
-The anti-inflammatory approach that changed the industry
-The moment she realized the world was finally listening
If you’re an entrepreneur, a skincare obsessive, or a woman building something big — this conversation will change the way you think about success, aging, and what’s actually possible.
Transcript 13,844 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:09 Emma Grede? She was an outsider, she didn't have training, yet she built one of the most influential skincare brands on earth. Dr Barbara Sturm's path into beauty is unlike anything I've ever heard before. She built an empire by trusting her instincts over industry rules, and if she can do it, so can you. When demand exploded, Barbara was forced to build faster than her life could keep up, and it came at a cost. From betting everything she had, to fighting her way through an industry that didn't believe she belonged, Dr Barbara uncovered the one truth every founder needs to hear. And over the next hour, she's letting us in on that secret.
0:47 Speaker 01 Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Anthropic is a research company first, built to make sure the transition to powerful AI goes well. When they launched Claude in 2023, its first users were businesses. Since then, it's been tested inside leading startups and enterprises. At DoorDash, a code migration that would have taken four engineers months to complete, took one person three weeks. At Carvana, one team used to hunt through old tickets and code to answer a question. With Claude, they get answers 65% faster. And at Rakuten, engineers have achieved 99.9% accuracy on tough coding jobs using Claude.
1:29 Speaker 01 Today, nine Fortune 10 companies run on Claude for the work they want to get right. And these businesses are helping Anthropic shape what comes next. Build your business with support from Claude at claude.ai/odyssey.
1:47 Emma Grede? Barbara, welcome to Aspire. Emma. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy.
1:52 Speaker 02 Happy to be here.
1:53 Emma Grede? I feel like we're just gonna have a really good chat today and forget that anybody's watching. So I wanna really get into this today because you are indeed such a badass of a businesswoman. We all know and love the brand that you've built. But the way you got into skincare was kind of quite fascinating because you're not a dermatologist. And you essentially just were like, I see a gap, I wanna do something and I'm gonna do it. So I want you to just talk to me about how you even decided to start your own brand. Cause I know so many people watching this podcast are dying to start their own brands. And so what made you just take that leap?
2:28 Speaker 02 So definitely, I didn't think I would end up in the beauty industry because I'm a tomboy. I'm like not into any like makeup and growing up in the orthopedic science.
2:38 Emma Grede? You are a doctor.
2:38 Speaker 02 I'm a doctor. I came together with orthopedic scientists from Harvard, Pittsburgh and a group of orthopedic doctors from Dusseldorf. And I helped pioneering a treatment where you take the blood of a patient, create anti-inflammatory proteins and growth factors and reinject those into the joints to bring down inflammation and stop the ongoing aging process of the joints called osteoarthritis. So inflammation and aging goes very, very close together. So this anti-inflammatory science was always at the forefront of everything I was doing. So sometimes I say I'm an anti-inflammatory doctor. And when I was in the orthopedics, I was also intrigued with aesthetics. So I started injecting botox fillers. I went to the best doctors in the world, learned how to do it.
3:21 Speaker 02 And then I thought, I actually wanna do something on a cellular level, effectively on the cells.
3:27 Emma Grede? Because I feel like that's how we all came to know you. You were like the vampire facial lady.
3:33 Speaker 02 So I translated the knowledge from the orthopedics into the skin in two thousand and two. And I created the blood facial vampire facial because I wanted to do something that has long lasting results, better immediate results. And it worked. It was fantastic.
3:47 Emma Grede? I mean, that was like a viral sensation.
3:50 Speaker 02 Kim's face, you know, that was only two thousand and eleven. So I did this nine years before it really became crazy big.
3:59 Emma Grede? Oh, wow. Really? It was that long before?
4:02 Speaker 02 Yes. And so lots of doctors were asking me, can you share, can you share, can you share? And I was like, no, I really wanna be careful because there's a lot of responsibility working with patients' blood. I say, I wanna do it and I wanna be the only one so I can be in charge of every patient myself. So that was not very entrepreneurial.
4:20 Emma Grede? I was just gonna say, not at all, you were like, I'm not sharing and I need to be in charge and the world just ran away with it, right? Because it really did become like the thing in skincare and everyone was doing it, perhaps not doctors as well.
4:31 Speaker 02 I was twenty nine or twenty eight, I was so young.
4:35 Emma Grede? That's crazy. So I know that for you, pursuing this business was kind of very personal and you decided that there really was a gap and you wanted to do things completely differently. So how did you land on actually creating your own set of products?
4:49 Speaker 02 So around the time when I created the Vampire Facial, I was very, very dry, my skin was dry, blackheads, I had to go and see my facialist every three weeks. It was super annoying because also she sent me home with a bunch of products, I spent all my money and nothing would work. And then I said to my friend, who was the first one who got ever the blood facial, I said, we do it ourselves, we do the gene cream. So I went to my grandma, who was a pharmacist, and I saw always mixing creams and I said...
5:17 Emma Grede? So you had that in the family?
5:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, I had this in the family and I said, what are the biggest and best hydrators in the world? Because I couldn't believe that every cream I tried couldn't hydrate my skin, it was so weird. And I went to my grandmother for advice and I went to my pharmacist and he, in the lab, we were mixing the creams with all the ingredients my grandmother said and we were tweaking, et cetera. And then I added the blood, the proteins of my blood, so the anti-inflammatory proteins I added on top into this cream.
5:47 Emma Grede? No, you didn't.
5:48 Speaker 02 And it fixed my skin.
5:49 Emma Grede? Your own blood.
5:50 Speaker 02 Yes, it fixed my skin overnight, I swear. My skin was amazing. I never went back to my facialist, so I didn't have to be cleaned out because when you have dry skin, you also have a lot of blackheads. So dry skin is never an option, by the way. If you have dry skin, you need to fix it because dryness is causing a lot of problems and it's making you age.
6:08 Emma Grede? Yeah, of course, it's making you age so much. Hydration is key and we all know that. All right, so you're there and you have this one cream, the gene cream, but that's with your blood. So then how do you pivot into getting a product that ends up in the marketplace or a suite of products? Because I think when I first came across your brand, it was like a clear system. Like to me, there were like six amazing products. So how did you go? From grandma and the pharmacist to the brand that we all know and love.
6:34 Speaker 02 So because I was also still working in orthopedic and had my own little thing going on with aesthetics. And the blood facial, we had a lot of patients coming from Hollywood, a lot. And they were not only interested in orthopedic things, all of a sudden they were interested in my creams and what I was doing, blood facial.
6:52 Emma Grede? Were you marketing at this point?
6:54 Speaker 02 It was just like.
6:54 Emma Grede? Just word of mouth.
6:55 Speaker 02 Word of mouth.
6:56 Emma Grede? So you were doing something great, you were having results and people started finding out about it.
6:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, and they loved it. So they came for orthopedics and they came for the skin. And this is how it got transported into Hollywood, which is very powerful.
7:08 Emma Grede? Had you spent much time in America at that point?
7:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, I started coming to Hollywood on a regular basis, two thousand and three, the first time, and then probably four, five times a year. So I I saw a lot of patients, they all also came to Dusseldorf to see me there.
7:23 Emma Grede? And you would be treating people's skin conditions at this point?
7:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, but also I did botox, I did fillers, I did orthopedic treatments, I did all kinds of treatments.
7:34 Emma Grede? And you would leave people with some products that you'd mixed up?
7:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was until then was only my my face cream. And then people were asking me, Doctor Stone, what's your regimen? And I I really, I just was happy I had my creams, like, that's your cream. Yeah, just take that.
7:46 Speaker 02 What cleanser? What, you know, do you have anything else? What's the full routine? I say, wait a minute. I cannot just send them to the store to buy like all these creams I didn't like. I have to create a few products for them. So I started creating products because I also wanted to take products home for their friends. And, you know, a blood cream is your personal blood cream. You cannot take them home to your friends. So I started developing products for my patients.
8:13 Emma Grede? And at this point, did you go, there's a brand in this? Or was it just to satisfy the needs of your patients?
8:18 Speaker 02 It's just, it was just to satisfy the needs of my patients. They, you know, as a doctor, you just wanna solve problems for them. I have this skin condition, I have redness, okay, I make you a calming serum. I have breakouts, okay, I create a clarifying line for you. It wasn't like, oh, my God, this is a business. Also, I wasn't like. Oh, soon I would be selling inherits or sacks or it's a no, I would I I never thought that that would even be possible.
8:44 Emma Grede? So you were making the products and how did you pay for the products? You paying from your own money?
8:49 Speaker 02 I went to the bank. I told them exactly what I wanted to do and I swear I didn't have a business plan. I didn't have anything. I just explained to them what I was doing and they gave me they gave me the money. And what I was thinking.
9:01 Emma Grede? Do you remember how much it was at that point?
9:03 Speaker 02 It was like maybe three hundred and fifty thousand.
9:05 Emma Grede? Okay, but for you at that point, was that a lot of money? Was I mean, it's you obviously didn't have it or you wanted to go to the bank?
9:10 Speaker 02 It's a it's a lot of money and I, you know, I was a single mother. Charlie was in school. I was bringing Charlie to a private school. I was a young doctor that didn't pay me all that much. And it wasn't like, but but I knew that I could pay the credit line back with the work I did on my patients. So I was like, you know, if.
9:27 Emma Grede? This feels safe enough. Three hundred and fifty thousand euro.
9:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was safe for me.
9:31 Emma Grede? It feels safe enough.
9:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, and I didn't want to take any money from anybody. I was just like, I do this myself.
9:36 Emma Grede? So you actually took that three hundred and fifty thousand and you created the first suite of products?
9:42 Speaker 02 Yes.
9:43 Emma Grede? At that point in time, what did your team look like?
9:46 Speaker 02 Oh, Oli, Oli was, Oli is one of my best friends and we met when we when we were nine, when I was nineteen years old. Oli meanwhile is seventy, she looks like fifty, unbelievable. She was the first one who ever got the vampire face. She was my guinea pig and my advisor and my.
10:04 Emma Grede? We all have a friend like that. I had a friend like that who tried every pair of good American jeans before they had labels, before they actually functioned as a pair of jeans. You have to have a good friend like that.
10:14 Speaker 02 And then I hired a I hired an assistant who also is amazing, she's still with me. She's head of product development now. And it's also quite interesting because the people I hired were necessarily coming from beauty. They were coming from everywhere and you become like the expert on the go. And if you have like a mindset, Claudia, for example, she's very like into everything healthy, everything good for the planet. Ever she's so, she's so persistent in ingredients and ingredient science and it's it's the most amazing. Person for that job.
10:49 Emma Grede? So you essentially assembled a team of people that cared about the same things you cared about, not necessarily experts from the skincare space.
10:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, also, we, Oli, Claudia and myself, we went in the car and we went to a factory somewhere north in Germany and we sat with the person who was supposed to develop the products for us and we told them what we want. And he's like, no, why don't you just take this badge I have here and put your name on it? No, no, no. I mean, we were so offended and he would just tell us things that wouldn't be able, wouldn't be possible to do. And we said, you know what? Forget it. We go somewhere else.
11:26 Emma Grede? It's not my guy.
11:26 Speaker 02 So, yeah, it's even hard to find the people who have the same mindset.
11:32 Emma Grede? And how did you land on those people? When did you know that you'd found the right partner? Because I feel like for every one of us that starts a business, those initial relationships you make with vendors, with factories, with even, you know, your PRs, your marketing partners, they either work or they don't work. And they can be the make or break of any business. So how did you know when you found the right vendor that that was the person you were gonna work with?
11:57 Speaker 02 First of all, I think we need to listen a lot to our gut feeling. And I get told this so many times that I have very strong gut feeling. And every time I don't listen to it, it's always catastrophic. But I learned really to make choices also and the feeling I have, the chemistry. And, you know, if somebody doesn't agree with your mindset and wants to tell you something different, you need to stick to your belief, you need to stick to what you think is right. And then go and find someone else. Also, networking, being a people person, I, I like to be with people, with interesting people. And you ask around and you get recommendations and you listen to the people you think are competent. And this is how you find your way to.
12:36 Emma Grede? Did you always land on the right people?
12:40 Emma Grede? I think that's the answer.
12:43 Speaker 02 Oh my goodness, it's a, it's a learning curve, right?
12:46 Emma Grede? Yeah, it's always a learn, it's always a learning curve.
12:48 Speaker 02 And that you cannot really, you cannot teach someone, you cannot learn, you have to make your experiences. It's just what it is in life, no?
12:55 Emma Grede? Well, the mistakes are all part of it. And I feel like, were there mistakes that you made early on? That you, you think about now and you're like, oh my God, that, you know, it could, it could have gone completely wrong. Were there any moments like that for you?
13:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, sure. But I think the mistakes you do also shape you. You know, I got thrown out of my orthopedic clinic because I made too much money for them. And there was a lot of like ego involved and I got so many patients into the clinic and they just didn't like me being successful for them. I didn't make any money. But anyway, they bullied me out of the clinic and I was so disappointed and so shocked. And that made me open my own clinic. Listen, if I wouldn't have been thrown out, I wouldn't have done it and it would all be, be, be different today.
13:38 Emma Grede? So you didn't leave because the business was taking off, you left because you got kicked out.
13:42 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:43 Emma Grede? That's amazing.
13:43 Speaker 02 And Oli came with me.
13:44 Emma Grede? The best thing that ever happened to you.
13:46 Speaker 02 And my friend Oli came with me and they, they tried to convince her to stay with them.
13:49 Emma Grede? Yeah.
13:50 Speaker 02 And, oh, this won't work, what she's doing, that won't work. And Oli's like, of course this will work. I know her, everything will work she does.
13:56 Emma Grede? But Bubba, that's so interesting to me because I often feel, and again, for so many founders and entrepreneurs, knowing when to leave your safety net is a really tricky thing, right? Because everyone's got bills to pay. You were a single mother at the time with a daughter in private school. So it's very difficult to know, all right, this is working enough that I can take that risk. And in your instance, you were actually pushed. Do you remember how that felt?
14:20 Speaker 02 But you have to have, I always say I have like somewhat of a naive optimism. I don't think much about what can go wrong. I think how it will be amazing. So I kind of calculated, you know, I only need to have X, Y, Z patients a day. But you know, sometimes we're standing there all day, not one patient. I mean, it's like you have to grow and you have to go through lows and highs. But we made it and we, we figured it out and it was, it was great. You know, once I left my clinic. I I you know, there were no appointments for three months, you know.
14:57 Emma Grede? So you had some time on your hands.
14:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
14:59 Emma Grede? And how did you start to distribute the products then? So explain to me what happened.
15:03 Speaker 02 I think that was that was quite the move. And this is the one where I think a key moment in the business. So when I had the products, you know, you cannot just produce like five hundred each. You have to produce like two and a half or five thousand each. And I didn't have so many patients I could sell them to. So I was like, oh, I have the storage full of these products. What do I do? So there was a shop in Berlin who took us right away. And I thought, only let's go to Frankfurt. There's this.
15:29 Emma Grede? Did you go and find that store, that first store that took you?
15:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, then I went to Frankfurt.
15:35 Emma Grede? Hi.
15:38 Speaker 02 And they really didn't care. But I went to Frankfurt to the store and that was mind open, oh, eyes opening for me because I went there and I said, you know, these products are really great. I could fit in your store, blah, blah. They were not interested. And I was like, you know what? This is not who I am. I'm used to having people come to me wanting something from me. And I can give solutions, but I'm not doing this. So.
16:00 Emma Grede? Meaning that you're not the salesperson?
16:02 Speaker 02 No, I'm not going out and push my product. I still don't push my products on anybody. I explain things, but I'm not saying, oh, you have to buy this.
16:09 Emma Grede? Oh, you're like the total opposite to me.
16:10 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:11 Emma Grede? I mean, I'm still trying to sell jeans to my grandma. Do you know what I mean? Like whoever I meet, I'm like, well, what do you want? Like, what do you need? Even if you don't want something. But I love that that's not who you are. And you knew that. You were like, that's just not where my strengths are.
16:23 Speaker 02 And I, at the time, Natalie Masane had started Net-a-Porter. And I said to my friends, you know, I think I need to be on Net-a-Porter because also in my clinic, I was sending out products with FedEx everywhere. And it's like my team was now working on shipments and stuff.
16:42 Emma Grede? Become like a logistics center.
16:43 Speaker 02 Yes. And I was like, maybe it's better and easier if we're just on Net-a-Porter. And everybody was saying, you cannot sell beauty online.
16:50 Emma Grede? I was just gonna ask you, did they even sell beauty on there at that point?
16:52 Speaker 02 They just started. They just started. And I was like, you know, I need to be on there. It was so hard to get an appointment, so hard. But then I I took everybody's blood and made everybody like feel really excited about the blood cream and.
17:06 Emma Grede? Wait a minute, that was how you got the appointment with Net-a-Porter?
17:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:09 Emma Grede? You did like a bespoke situation, because when you say I took everybody's blood, it can sound really strange. But this for you was like I'm creating bespoke product for each and every one of the buyers.
17:19 Speaker 02 Exactly.
17:20 Emma Grede? Wow, what a move.
17:21 Speaker 02 Made people intrigued, so we had an appointment at the headquarters in New York with David Oldson.
17:27 Emma Grede? Mm hmm. I remember David.
17:28 Speaker 02 And David was cool, you know, he was.
17:30 Emma Grede? So he was, David was bought in though, right, to build the beauty side of the business and to say, okay, the world needs to take Net-a-Porter seriously in beauty. And he was very respected. And I remember the curation of brands in the early days was like, I mean, you had to be like treble, treble A.
17:46 Speaker 02 Yes.
17:46 Emma Grede? To get on Net-a-Porter, just like a fashion brand, in fact. It was the same for beauty. They were keeping the standards like up here.
17:52 Speaker 02 Very selective. So they came to the meeting, I think they forgot that we were meeting and they weren't very interested. But once I started talking and telling everything, they were like, oh, wow. So I took David's blood. And then they took us and I was so overwhelmed. I I went home, took a shower and started sobbing. I was like, oh, my God, this is huge.
18:10 Emma Grede? Do you remember how huge it was? Like, was it like?
18:12 Speaker 02 Oh, Net-a-Porter was was God for me. This was like, wow, Net-a-Porter.
18:17 Emma Grede? Did they do a big order?
18:18 Speaker 02 Me, yeah, it was not even so much about the big order. I was never about money. I was always about, you know, I got my babies.
18:27 Emma Grede? Yeah, it's the prestige of the whole thing. Yeah.
18:29 Speaker 02 It was like a total personal success for me.
18:32 Emma Grede? But it's also a signal to the rest of the market, right? Because once you are on Net-a-Porter, I imagined.
18:38 Speaker 02 Everybody called me.
18:39 Emma Grede? The phone started ringing. Yeah.
18:39 Speaker 02 You know, I missed so many emails because I was working, you know, they were emailing me twice, three, four times until we even replied. So yeah, Harrods called, like spacing K, and everybody wanted our products and I mentioned, now I had to get into production.
18:54 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
18:54 Speaker 02 So this is how it. Grew. This is what what happened. Net top but there was the multiplier.
19:01 Emma Grede? That was, yeah, that was the multiplier. That was your moment of lift.
19:04 Speaker 02 I never expected my products to be seen in the entire world. But then I thought, you know, if these products work for me, they work for my patients. Everybody's excited about them. Why wouldn't they work for the people in Australia? Why wouldn't they work for everybody if they work for me?
19:17 Emma Grede? And that's the first time you started thinking about yourself as a truly, like, it's a global brand now.
19:23 Speaker 02 Yeah, I just thought the products are really amazing. I was like, I was thinking actively. Yeah, of course. I care. These products are just, they they they they do everything. They're anti-inflammatory, they're hydrating, they're anti-aging, they do everything. They're amazing.
19:40 Emma Grede? So I want to go back to the the investment piece because I think for so many people, it's it's an area that's shrouded in so much mystery. So you're at fifteen million dollars in sales and you decide to go and rise, raise outside finances. Did you, did you know anyone? Like, who did you call?
19:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think that also went through relationships. Like, it wasn't, it also was a little bit last minute. And we met with a few, we met with a few of the big ones, but then we met Damian and he was like, okay, we're super, super interested.
20:12 Emma Grede? How delicious friend Damian.
20:13 Speaker 02 You know, and I I I don't like corporate. You know, and when these big headshots come and they, no thanks, you know, they don't understand me. It was just, oh, my God, we had the funniest conversations on the phone, you know, because they're talking, talking, talking. And, you know, if people talk, talk, talk, I'm not listening. I'm just like, I'm doing something else.
20:30 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah.
20:32 Speaker 02 I need someone who fits, you know?
20:33 Emma Grede? But I often say, you know, when you, when you sit down and you start meeting investors, there has to be more than just the money, right? You have to look at them and say, this is someone I like, respect, admire the work. This is somebody that I could sit down and either have a drink or dinner with. Because what you don't understand is you take the money, then you're in business together. You have to work with these people. And I imagine that with Damian, I mean, I've been friends with Damian for a very, very long time, since, you know, I was a little runt running around London, like, trying to do deals here, there and everywhere. When he had Slice PR, and so it was before he was an investor. But and and he is awesome. And he was always awesome. But I imagine that first meeting was something you were like, I can work with these guys.
21:13 Speaker 02 But what you said, I I I said, oh, he knows how to order really good wine.
21:18 Emma Grede? You're like, that's something I care about. That's gonna matter down the line. We're gonna be popping some bottles for sure.
21:25 Speaker 02 I mean, like, he has amazing relationships. They're a relationship guys.
21:29 Emma Grede? But I feel like you were one of the first in their portfolio, right? Because I feel like they went around and did a lot of great things, like Pat McGrath. But you were like early in that portfolio. It was always like, we're the guys that have invested in Sturm. So it was a calling card all round. But of course, I mean, in your space, in the beauty space, the multiples are known to be so great and so amazing. Did you have all of the big beauty companies also trying to get in?
21:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, not at the time. We weren't really looking for that. I was more like, you know, Stella McCartney was investing, which I thought, you know.
22:04 Emma Grede? I mean, you have a pretty amazing group of investors. It felt very starry in the beginning. And also Stella. Did Oprah invest at some point?
22:12 Speaker 02 Oprah invested and they were all hands on. They were so supportive. You know, Stella would just send the products to everybody. It was so, so sweet. It was just like a group of family members and we were just, you know, brainstorming together and everybody was excited. And Oprah was so sweet and excited. And it, it comes through the quality of the products, not, you know, Oprah is not looking for, you know, more investments unless she loves something.
22:39 Emma Grede? Absolutely.
22:40 Speaker 02 She truly loves the products.
22:42 Emma Grede? And when you, so when you took that investment, what changed?
22:48 Speaker 02 It just changed in a way that all of a sudden, you know, my relationships got multiplied with their relationships. And I always say, this is a relationship business. It's like great if you have great products, but you also have to be a people person. You need to be able to create value also through your relationships and through networks. Sounds, sounds a little cheesy, but, but I think this is how you bring, especially, you know, when I started, there wasn't Instagram. There wasn't like, I didn't have the money to buy book pages. Now it's becoming a little easier, much easier actually. But, but at the time, it was just word of mouth and I needed to bring the news to everybody.
23:29 Speaker 02 And it's kind of fun as well. I think what we're doing, we meet the best people of our generation. It's a big plus for, for your own growth as well.
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24:35 Emma Grede? Did you ever feel any pressure? Like, once you'd taken that money, did you start to feel the pressure of everybody else thinking about what this brand should be, what it should become? Was there any of that?
24:47 Speaker 02 No, I just had so much fun creating and doing more things that are cool for the brand and, you know, running with my instincts and doing things differently than the industry and kind of shaping a little bit what was out there. I mean, I brought the science to skincare and went away from all this marketing, empty marketing promises. And there was so much noise in skincare, but nobody really looked into efficacy. Do the products really work? What are the ingredients? What do the ingredients do? It's a lot of marketing in that space.
25:22 Emma Grede? A lot of marketing. I want to talk to you about that because I think that your ethos is what makes you so much of an outlier and so successful. But I wonder, I want to understand a bit about what really changed in the company. Do you feel like, did you have to professionalize? Did you have to, did anything shift? Because I do feel like there is this idea that you can sort of take money off the table and go about business as usual. And my experience has always been that even with the best and the nicest and the kindest of investors, something does change in the company once you take money from somewhere else. It's not the same thing, and there is an expectation, and there are board meetings, and things get more formal. Did that happen to you?
26:01 Speaker 02 They were quite cool about it. They really trusted me.
26:03 Emma Grede? Goodness.
26:04 Speaker 02 But they they brought a great CMO and they brought then a CFO and they brought like a couple of people I never knew.
26:10 Emma Grede? You needed.
26:13 Emma Grede? You were like, okay, okay, we're doing this, but it's great if someone else could do it. Someone who's actually done it before, that's gonna be amazing.
26:20 Speaker 02 So hiring people was part of what they were doing and yeah, they were overlooking their work. But they were mostly also helping and it was great to have some some great partners.
26:31 Emma Grede? And have they still been great partners for you?
26:34 Speaker 02 Next question.
26:37 Emma Grede? I love that you say that. We'll have a big conversation about it. Well, it's true though, isn't it?
26:42 Speaker 02 My advice really is, you know, do your business yourself as long as you can without investors. Because as you say, as soon as you have investors and there are some good things, there are some bad things there. Also, it's always a lot of greed behind, you know.
26:56 Emma Grede? Yes. They're called investors for a reason, right? But I I think that is really sound, really great advice. And I feel like there's such a. You know, there's so much amazing stuff happening, especially in this country around founders and starting businesses. And there becomes all of these myths that you should go out and immediately raise money. And I love the advice that you give to keep it your own for as long as you can.
27:19 Speaker 02 But what I think about that, I wanna say, if you have a belief that something works. Why, I always tell everybody, do it yourself, get money from the bank. And if you don't one hundred percent believe, then you don't do it because you don't really believe in it. You just wanna be a CEO and you just wanna have like, you know, a business and be a business owner, entrepreneur, whatever everybody calls themselves. But I think it's very important that you believe and that you have the guts to really go into the minus to build.
27:51 Emma Grede? Yeah. And have you been in the minus?
27:53 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, yeah, with my three hundred fifty, I was right in the minus.
27:57 Emma Grede? How hard is it? Like when you, because I feel like looking at you, looking at your life, looking at your beautiful family and looking at you at the helm of this incredible empire that you've built. It all seemingly looks so easy, but I've never had that experience myself. What have been like your hard or your hardest moments that you've had in the brand?
28:19 Speaker 02 I mean. Even before the brand, you know, I was working with just men and, you know, get bullied out. Unbelievable things happened, but it never really took me down. I always was like moving forward and, you know, when you have children and especially when you're a single mother, you just like you don't have a choice and you need to stay positive and optimistic. And there are so many challenges, there's so much jealousy around. In Germany, it was unbearable. People like, yeah, she's not a dermatologist, she's not that. And she's like, I am the big dermatologist. I mean, and then they copy everything you do.
28:54 Emma Grede? Yeah, you're like, but I did it. I'm the one with the cream.
28:58 Speaker 02 Oh, it's crazy. They, they, they, they even went to the authority and, and, and, and complained to authority about me. I mean, like, I don't know what, what I had to face. And then, yeah, later on, you know, from dealing with investors, dealing with your people who are working for you, you know, it's, it's like, it's hard to overlook everything.
29:19 Emma Grede? Yes, it's really hard.
29:20 Speaker 02 You know, it's, it's one thing if you juggle with a few million, it's a different thing if you juggle with more millions, you know, your head is on the line.
29:28 Emma Grede? Yeah.
29:29 Speaker 02 You know, it's my name.
29:30 Emma Grede? Well, the stakes become, the stakes become really high and it is your name. It's your name and you have everything to lose essentially. How much of your, I mean, like you, you kind of strike me as such a disciplined person and I wonder how much of that comes from your German heritage.
29:44 Speaker 02 Oh yeah, I have a big self-discipline. I, I, I'm, I'm a workaholic too. I love working. I'm, I'm obsessed with creating and I have discipline. If I need to do something, I do it.
29:56 Emma Grede? How much do you work, Barbara? Be honest.
29:58 Speaker 02 I, every day, every night, I think about things.
30:02 Emma Grede? Every day, Monday to Friday or every day, seven days a week?
30:04 Speaker 02 No, seven days a week. No, no, no, there is no weekend. But, you know, I take time off for skiing, I take time off, but even while I'm skiing, I'm thinking and, you know, I'm creating new things right now. I'm so, I, I, I so love it and I, I, I love the challenges, I love to. Do new things and ten things at a time. And yeah, you have to be on everything.
30:26 Emma Grede? You have to be on every. I mean, I just feel like wherever I go in the world, whatever, you know, if it's an incredible hotel or it's an incredible store, like your brand is there sitting with the best of the best brands. But you've kind of done that and created something that's so true to yourself. And you've kind of weaved it in with your family because your daughter works for you. I love the idea that like some of these first people that are in the business still work with you. How does that work?
30:50 Speaker 02 It's it's like it's a big family and that's the core team. And we're it's really like we we talk night and day.
30:57 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
30:57 Speaker 02 And there's no, there's no boundaries. We're all like in this together and so dedicated. And yeah, I'm I'm also very competitive in a way. I want to be in the best hotels. I want to be in the on the front. I want to be the the inventor of everything. And I am, you know, I bring things to the skincare industry. Like, five years ago, I brought the exosomes out. Now it's like the thing on the market.
31:23 Emma Grede? Huge, that thing.
31:24 Speaker 02 Yeah. But it comes from the orthopedics, you know, now, like, again, dermatology or the orthopedics, exosomes. Fifteen years ago, I treated rheumatoid arthritis with exosomes. And it was amazing, the results. And I wanted to bring it into the skincare world, you know.
31:39 Emma Grede? Do you think that your daughter will take over the business one day?
31:42 Speaker 02 I whatever they want to do, whatever makes them happy, you know, we we only want these kids to be happy and and and being also confident. I was just, we were just doing like a big press trip and Charlie was doing the speech. I mean, the way she speaks, she expresses herself. And this is not like, like, oh, you know.
32:03 Emma Grede? No, I mean, she is like your greatest brand ambassador, isn't she? After you, she's your greatest brand ambassador.
32:07 Speaker 02 But also, she she is friends with everybody, like next generation.
32:11 Emma Grede? Yeah.
32:12 Speaker 02 You know, how many hotels she sources, how many opportunity business opportunity she brings. It's unbelievable.
32:20 Emma Grede? I feel like so many people like warn about the dangers of mixing business and family. But I I mean, I've seen it work. I work with my husband. My sister worked with us for a really long time. And I feel like I just wonder how you've managed to avoid some of the pitfalls of that.
32:36 Speaker 02 I trust Charlie to everything. I trust her opinion, her taste, your style, everything. And whatever she decides, I go with it.
32:44 Emma Grede? Charlie is your eldest daughter, your eldest daughter.
32:45 Speaker 02 She's twenty nine now, and if she makes a decision, I trust her and we go with it. It's like, for me, no question. And she also started bringing in new products. I would have brought in eye patches, and they're amazing. I'm obsessed.
32:57 Emma Grede? No, we're all obsessed. I mean, I would say I start three days a week with your eye patches. I'm obsessed with them.
33:03 Speaker 02 Put them on on the on the flight.
33:05 Emma Grede? And we put them in the fridge, and it's like, the best.
33:07 Speaker 02 I I I went on a day flight, twelve hours. Eye patches, eye patches, I changed them two, three times.
33:12 Emma Grede? And you would never have done that. That was Charlie's idea.
33:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, I listen to, I listen to her.
33:17 Emma Grede? Yeah, you have to listen to her because like you said, she's a different generation, the different needs. And, you know, they just, I mean, they, who knew that we would buy so many eye patches? I certainly didn't. I never had eye patches until like three years ago. Now I can't live without them.
33:29 Speaker 02 Those really work. I'm obsessed with them.
33:31 Emma Grede? No, they do. They really, really work. What are you teaching? So Charlie's twenty nine, Pepper's ten years old, your second daughter. What are you teaching them about leadership and about business more generally?
33:40 Speaker 02 I think I bring down to them the values I learned from my mom, from my parents. Keeping both feet on the ground, being kind and respectful to everybody. You know, only spend what you got. And like those values. And being kind and respectful to me is super important. So for me, everybody around us, if I would see my kids being not kind, that would really hurt me. So that to me is super important. And yeah, they should fulfill their their dreams and I will support them with whatever they want to do. Pepper wants to be a ski racer. Okay, we go for it. You know, like whatever it is.
34:21 Emma Grede? Knowing that kid since she was about three, that just doesn't surprise me whatsoever.
34:25 Speaker 02 She's a ski racer and an actor.
34:27 Emma Grede? She was always like an absolute spitfire, that little girl, just like running through walls. She's unbelievable.
34:33 Speaker 02 She would do whatever she wants to do. It's no question.
34:36 Emma Grede? Do you, I mean, I know that your mother was a biochemist lab doctor. And I wonder what she taught you about leadership and forging a path because she had three children, right? And I just wonder, what did you learn from her?
34:50 Speaker 02 I mean, she was such a manager. She had three children, no nanny. She was starting to work in the in the lab like six thirty. She had to bring us to the kindergarten before, like to the it was even for smaller children. It was unbelievable how she ran this whole thing. My dad was fully working architect, being away, teaching on universities as well. So she was running everything and still also fed us and amazing.
35:19 Emma Grede? Just amazing.
35:21 Speaker 02 Lead by example, no? We have to become our own managers because sometimes people say, yeah, how do you do this and why how can you get everything? Everything done. You just do it. Just do one, the next, the next, the next, and you just get it done.
35:33 Emma Grede? Did anyone ever deter you? Did anyone ever say, you're a doctor, why would you try to do this brand?
35:40 Speaker 02 No, I don't.
35:41 Emma Grede? Amazing. Lucky you.
35:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, I don't. I mean, people tell you you can do things, but but that didn't stop us. But no, uh because I was always a doctor anyways.
35:53 Emma Grede? Yes.
35:53 Speaker 02 And I stayed at the service to the patients, even in the brand. So we do a lot of education. And for example, when COVID hit, I started really talking to everybody out there, giving advice, listening, learning. And doing all these like master classes and, you know, online class. And it was was great because it brought me back to being a doctor.
36:16 Emma Grede? Yeah, no, I really feel that. And I it's a it's an interesting segue because I feel like the beauty landscape has been completely transformed by TikTok. And now we see like kids younger and younger. I mean, my kids who's eight years old loves nothing more than an hour in Sephora. Like that is her favorite thing to do. And I'm like, where like but where do you even get that? You know, she sees it on YouTube, she sees it on TikTok. What do you think about the ever growing complexity around people's beauty routines and not just women, but also like so many men, you know, that's sleeping with mouth tape and they're talking about longevity and then they have these like seventeen step routines. And I feel like that's really like
36:57 Emma Grede? the opposite of what you're all about. But what do you think about it? Because I guess there must have been parts of that that have been really additive to your business.
37:04 Speaker 02 So first of all, I think it's great that people get the mindset of staying healthy, doing prevention.
37:10 Emma Grede? Looking after themselves.
37:11 Speaker 02 Looking after themselves. I think that's a good trend. The trend which is worrisome is that these kids, you know, have access to so many.
37:21 Speaker 02 Information that not necessarily keeps them safe.
37:24 Emma Grede? Well, Barbara, tell us, what is the, what is the information that we're, we're getting?
37:27 Speaker 02 This is like a big topic for me because Pepper's ten, her and her friends, yeah, I'm going to Sephora and, you know, she's collecting these creams she's not allowed to use. And I'm like.
37:37 Emma Grede? Do you tell her that you're like, you can't use that?
37:38 Speaker 02 Of course, of course. And I tell her ingredients, that's what it does, this is what happens to your skin. And, and so she uses sterm on her skin. Sometimes she's allowed to put a cream on her leg and then she likes fragrance.
37:51 Emma Grede? Really? Are you that strict? You're like, no, you can't just put any random thing on your face?
37:55 Speaker 02 Yes, no, it's so dangerous. They are, they have access to everything. And not every mother knows about ingredients and sees the danger because so many ingredients disturb your microbiome, your skin barrier function, they get so many issues, eczema. I have phone calls every day from mothers. Oh, my kid used X, Y, Z. What can I do? And yeah, obviously they cannot run to Sephora and buy all sterm. It's, it's, you know.
38:21 Emma Grede? It's expensive.
38:21 Speaker 02 It's expensive.
38:22 Emma Grede? It's expensive as fuck. I mean, I love it, but it's not for everybody.
38:25 Speaker 02 And yeah, they want like ten step routines and Pepper's doing the roller and like the ice thingies. And like she puts her headband, headband on and then she does like one, the face mist and the calming serum, the betabee. And like, it's like a whole thing.
38:40 Emma Grede? But I feel like we're all like that and you're quite contrarian because you're saying, okay, ladies, like you shouldn't be using all these harsh ingredients. You shouldn't be using red and all. I mean, I read somewhere you don't even like sunscreen.
38:50 Speaker 02 Oh, no, no, it's not that I don't like sunscreen.
38:51 Emma Grede? Okay, tell me, what is the truth?
38:53 Speaker 02 You know, I, but I.
38:54 Emma Grede? But you have been quite vocal about.
38:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, but I want to say we need the sun. We need the sun.
38:58 Emma Grede? Okay.
38:59 Speaker 02 The sun is our source for vitamin D production. It's important for our immune system, for our mental health, for our respiratory tract, for our profusion of our arteries and our veins. There's so much coming from the sun. It's important for our bones.
39:12 Emma Grede? So you don't want me in sunscreen every day?
39:14 Speaker 02 No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying that.
39:15 Emma Grede? I mean, I use sun drops, by the way.
39:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, and on the sun drops. You see, I have a sunscreen. If I was against sunscreen, I wouldn't be doing sunscreen. But what I wanna say is that we also need the sun. And that rather than putting on sunscreen twenty four seven, which you have to do if you use ingredients that damage your skin barrier, like retinol, glycolic, laser treatments, acid peels.
39:37 Emma Grede? So you don't advocate for those things?
39:38 Speaker 02 Even frequencies in skincare, you know, destroys your microbiome and makes your skin barrier dysfunctional. And, you know, there's another trend, barrier cream, barrier support, strengthen barrier. But then, you know, it's like, nobody brings it together. Because if you wanna, if you wanna save your skin barrier and your microbiome, you don't use harsh ingredients. You don't do that because you scrub off your skin, you get red, you get inflamed, inflammation, you cause a lot of inflammation. You're bringing down your skin barrier, destroyed healthy skin cells.
40:11 Emma Grede? So give it to me, what should I be avoiding at all costs? What are the things that like we just should not?
40:16 Speaker 02 You know, in Europe, they're taking retinol down of the market.
40:19 Emma Grede? No.
40:20 Speaker 02 Yes.
40:20 Emma Grede? But I just started with the retinol. I thought, I'm forty two, am I not supposed to be using that three days a week?
40:26 Speaker 02 I would never use it. You see, there are two ways of looking at anti-aging. And I'm an anti-inflammatory doctor, so I wouldn't cause inflammation on my skin. So I would not do retinol or glycolic or acid, acid peels or resurfacing products because causes inflammation, destroys your microbiome, your skin barrier. Look, would you put an acid peel or retinol on your heart or your liver?
40:51 Emma Grede? No, because I, I feel like it would be gross.
40:54 Speaker 02 So we need to respect the organ skin the same like we respect the heart or the liver. Because the skin is one of our most important.
41:01 Emma Grede? But what are we doing for anti-aging, Barbara?
41:04 Speaker 02 Hydration, anti-inflammation, exosomes, telomerase activating, nutrition. All heal and repair. You take what you got and make it the best possible. Instead of destroying what you got and bringing the future closer to you.
41:16 Emma Grede? I mean, well, it sounds like it makes sense.
41:18 Speaker 02 Oh, it absolutely makes sense. It absolutely makes sense. And there are so many people who also have sensitive skin. If they use retinol, they get redness right away. And by the way, if you destroy your skin barrier function with melanin-rich skin, you get hyperpigmentation so easily. So people who use lasers as a peels all the time, they get this spotty skin.
41:37 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
41:38 Speaker 02 And then you need to use hardcore sunscreen.
41:41 Emma Grede? Yeah.
41:41 Speaker 02 And now sunscreen is also seen as cancer-causing, you know, it's not the best ingredients.
41:47 Emma Grede? And we all know that. Well, also, I think that sunscreen is very different in Europe than it is here in America. I always buy everything because, you know, I'm English. But it's like, there are so many things that are banned in Europe that we use so readily in America that I'm like, forget about it.
42:00 Speaker 02 The laws for sunscreen filters haven't changed since over twenty years in America.
42:04 Emma Grede? But it's so crazy.
42:05 Speaker 02 But even in in Europe, I mean, like, chemical filter. And I use the sun drops. And obviously, when you go out and play tennis and T L A is also a whole different story than maybe in in in in Europe, but also in the mountains, you need sunscreen. But I don't think you should use sunscreen twenty four seven.
42:25 Emma Grede? And you don't think you should use sunscreen every day?
42:28 Speaker 02 You have, yeah, if you're sitting in the office, no. If you have strong barrier function. If you use retinol, yes, twenty four seven. But you also should have a pollution filter. Because pollution and H E V light coming from the computer sitting in front of screens twenty four seven, you need like a H E V filter too.
42:46 Emma Grede? So everyone that sits in front of a screen twenty four seven should actually be using a filter.
42:50 Speaker 02 Anti-pollution drops.
42:52 Emma Grede? I mean, I love those anti-pollution drops.
42:54 Speaker 02 They're amazing. And you need to reapply.
42:56 Emma Grede? That was one of the reasons that I gravitated towards your brand. And I always wanted to ask you why you did this. I can't believe we haven't spoken about it before. But the darker skin products, I mean, you were one of the first. And I just wonder, like, why did you, why did you do that?
43:10 Speaker 02 That's actually Angela Bassett who said, you know, there is like
43:13 Emma Grede? She's your client?
43:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, nothing for us. She said, there's nothing for us. You need to do something. And I was looking into the science and I found that melanin rich skin actually is prone to way more inflammation. And not just, you know, inflammation goes all the way, all around. If you have like a breakout and you squeeze it, inflammation is not just there.
43:33 Emma Grede? No, and it scars and it's like, yes.
43:35 Speaker 02 And then it becomes hyperpigmentation.
43:37 Emma Grede? Exactly.
43:37 Speaker 02 Because you break through the skin barrier, sun, pollution, H E V light.
43:42 Emma Grede? Well, I feel all of us know that, but we don't know the science behind it and then what we should do to prevent it. And all I know is when, I mean, I've never wanted to use exfoliators on my skin because I always thought they were too harsh. And when I started to use your enzyme cleanser, but specifically the one for darker skin. I mean, I use it three days a week. That is my facial.
44:00 Speaker 02 But look, this is your exfoliant. You shouldn't be using retinol on top. Because, so there are three forms of exfoliation. One is facial scrub, mechanical exfoliation. The second one is enzyme cleanser, enzymatic, but very, very gentle, only takes of dead skin cells. And the third form is like a acid peel or retinol, like a resurfacing. All these tells it resurfacing, not only takes of dead skin cells, but also healthy skin cells, meaning destroying your skin barrier.
44:37 Emma Grede? So if there's three things that you think pretty much everyone, doesn't matter if you're twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties. Like, what are the three things that we should all be doing? And then I'm going to ask you what I should avoid.
44:48 Speaker 02 Okay.
44:48 Emma Grede? Make it easy for me because I'm a simpleton and I don't have time for like a twenty step routine.
44:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, but that, you know, I'm, I'm traveling with my hyaluronic serum, my face cream and maybe like two more serums. But, but I'm also very like, because we need to be fast, you know, we have shit to do.
45:03 Emma Grede? We have shit to do. We don't have time for twenty steps.
45:06 Speaker 02 So, yeah, cleanse your.
45:07 Emma Grede? We'd all love to be like that man with, you know, like open the blue bottle of water. I had like two hours in the morning, but it's like, are you kidding me? Can you imagine I'd have a line of kids like they're going like, what, what are you doing, mum?
45:17 Speaker 02 Exactly. So, yeah, so we don't do that.
45:20 Emma Grede? The three things that we have to do, non-negotiables.
45:23 Speaker 02 Cleanser, our foam cleanser.
45:26 Speaker 02 Non-negotiable is amazing. You use that after your day, whatever, then use a hyaluronic serum and a face cream. If you do these three steps and maybe add the enzyme cleanser for twice a week, you're so good. You will have a strong glow.
45:38 Emma Grede? Okay, so I'm doing a cleanser.
45:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:40 Emma Grede? Hyaluronic serum, a simple moisturizer, and then maybe using the enzyme cleanser. A couple of days a week for exfoliation.
45:47 Speaker 02 Healthy, dewy, glowy skin. You get hydration, you get the balance, you have the purcelling for the telomerase activation, most proven anti-aging theory ever, Harvard studies.
45:59 Emma Grede? Really?
45:59 Speaker 02 Telomerase activation, yeah. Telomeres, you know.
46:02 Emma Grede? Telomeres, I know. Absolutely.
46:04 Speaker 02 The caps of the chromosomes, each cell division gets shorter, shorter, shorter.
46:07 Emma Grede? Over here, yes.
46:08 Speaker 02 Exactly, until the cell mutates or dies. And the telomerase keeps those telomeres from shortening because we're very dependent on our forty to sixty cell divisions, which gives us our age. But turtles, for example, have hundred to ten cell divisions. They get to live over two hundred years. So you see how important it is to keep our cells dividing healthy and throughout their forty to sixty cell divisions. And you know what is one more of the killer of this cell division? Dehydration or dryness.
46:38 Emma Grede? So staying hydrated is that important?
46:40 Speaker 02 The key, the key. You have to compare grapes with raisins. The grapes are the hydrated skin cells, the raisins, the dehydrated ones. And the grapes have these osmosis channels to bring on active ingredients and obviously look better.
46:53 Emma Grede? Totally.
46:53 Speaker 02 On the skin. So you want the grapes. That's why you need hydration. That's why you need the hyaluronic serum with the super anti-aging serum to bring really deep, deep hydration, but also superficial instant hydration.
47:04 Emma Grede? Okay, so I'm staying away from retinal.
47:07 Speaker 02 Because retinal breaks your skin barrier, your microbiome. What's happening now is trans-epidermal water loss. Water leaves the skin.
47:14 Emma Grede? So all of that hydration that I'm putting in is just leaving. Gosh, it's so complicated, isn't it?
47:20 Speaker 02 I know, it's complicated.
47:21 Emma Grede? But I know that your whole, your whole thesis is, it's about so much more than just skincare, right? Because you are a lifestyle person. I feel like you are the walking, talking embodiment of what it is that you talk about in this lifestyle, because you speak to me so much about sleep and exercise and nutrition. Like, do I really need to be doing all of those things? Because I feel like we've been told that some of that stuff can go by the wayside if you've got the right products and you have the right skincare regime.
47:48 Speaker 02 I one hundred percent believe in a three sixty approach. And also makes sense, you know, what we eat translates into our system, what we put on our skin translates.
47:58 Emma Grede? So you need anti-inflammatory foods as well as.
48:01 Speaker 02 But also endocrine disruptors, whatever you put on your skin with endocrine disruptors or, you know, getting something in a supermarket wrapped in plastic endocrine disruptors has an impact on our entire hormone situation. So you have to think about how do you stay healthy, how you prevent from getting diseases. And I, when I was sixteen, way before I did anything, um, I became a total healthy eater. I love healthy food and the more you're used to healthy food, you're obsessed with healthy food and you don't like anything, I, I, you know, I, I.
48:38 Emma Grede? No, you turn your nose up to things.
48:40 Speaker 02 Burgers.
48:40 Emma Grede? You don't never eat a fry bar.
48:42 Speaker 02 No, I don't like it. I really do not like it.
48:45 Emma Grede? What about wine?
48:47 Speaker 02 Yeah.
48:47 Emma Grede? Okay, fine.
48:48 Speaker 02 Not that much, but yes. Thanks.
48:51 Emma Grede? But not very much.
48:52 Speaker 02 No, I, I, you know what, but I also don't tolerate, I don't tolerate it anymore, you know.
48:56 Emma Grede? No, but I understand, I mean, honestly, I tried this with Gwyneth Paltrow.
49:00 Speaker 02 Yeah.
49:00 Emma Grede? And I was like, just give me the secret. And she's like, it's the diet and the exercise and nutrition. There are no shortcuts.
49:06 Speaker 02 And there it comes back to self-discipline.
49:08 Emma Grede? Yes.
49:08 Speaker 02 You have to have the discipline. And look, I'm, I, I moved into the mountains when I was fifty and it was because of mental health, but I, I.
49:17 Emma Grede? You left L A, right?
49:19 Speaker 02 Yes, and I wanted to have a lifestyle where I don't just sit in the office twenty four seven because, because you, we love working. You know, we love working, but you can be on the phone on a hike, you can do different things or I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm calling my team from the red light bed. Or I, I call my team with the oxygen mask on or, or, or, you know.
49:39 Emma Grede? The importance of walking and talking, the lifestyle of your brand are like, how important is that to your brand and doing as well as you've done?
49:49 Speaker 02 Whatever I do, I need to be, I, I'm so convinced about what my life is, how, how, how I create the products, how I believe in. My brand and this all needs to be together. If you don't believe in what you're doing, how do you talk, how do you talk to your patients, to your clients? How do you sell your jeans if you're not, if you don't think they're the coolest jeans on that planet? No?
50:10 Emma Grede? No, you have to.
50:11 Speaker 02 You have to live what you, I'm not preaching, but what you, what you um bring into the world, you have to live that. Otherwise, nobody believes you. And I like to be authentic. I don't want to be anybody I'm not. I'm a scientist.
50:24 Emma Grede? You're a scientist.
50:25 Speaker 02 Doctor scientist and I always been and I always loved it and I always, I I love to do something that works and not, I don't want to throw a marketing slogan at you. No, it's not me. Although we have a really good marketing slogan, no? The doctor that slows skin aging.
50:41 Emma Grede? Yes, let's go. And it's working. I mean, look at you.
50:45 Speaker 02 It's proven, so.
50:45 Emma Grede? It's proven.
50:46 Speaker 02 We've got, you know, I I sold part of the business to Pooch and they're doing all this like.
50:50 Emma Grede? Good for you, Barbara.
50:51 Speaker 02 All these like, you know.
50:53 Emma Grede? Testing and child.
50:54 Speaker 02 And now we can claim this thing. What I knew before that this slows down aging, but but obviously I couldn't say it. Now we can say it's kind of cool.
51:01 Emma Grede? You can actually say it. Tried and tested. Barbara, how was it working with your husband all of those years?
51:07 Speaker 02 You know, it's like in every marriage, you help each other, you support each other and you you're building life together, you know? So it's nice to have someone who supports you and believes in you and helps you with with everything, you know?
51:21 Emma Grede? It's it is. It's just a a total, a total game changer.
51:24 Speaker 02 Didn't work out that well for us.
51:27 Emma Grede? Well, sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. It can for a minute and then not at another time. I mean, not everything is great for, you know, forever.
51:34 Speaker 02 For a certain time in your life, things are a great thing and then you change and then it's so exciting what comes next. And I'm so happy. I'm so full of life. I'm so full of creativity. There are so many projects I'm working on, which is fun.
51:50 Emma Grede? Which is, which is so fun. Um I'm really interested now that you've sold the business or a piece of the business to Pooch, right?
51:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:58 Emma Grede? And so did anything change after you did that sale? Did you make loads of money, Barbara?
52:04 Speaker 02 Um, oh my god, yeah, for me, like, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's nice to not having to worry anything.
52:10 Emma Grede? Yeah.
52:10 Speaker 02 You know, that's also a nice feeling.
52:12 Emma Grede? But you're at that point now where you don't have to worry.
52:14 Speaker 02 No, you just really do the things and, and, and, and create things and you have like the freedom for everything. It's, it's, it's mind blowing how great that feels.
52:23 Emma Grede? No, and you have an amazing partner in Pooch because they're like a one of one.
52:27 Speaker 02 They're great. And yeah, all the things I didn't like doing in the business is on them. And I have much more power and um time to do what I like. And then the only thing I, I wanna say there, you know, more eyeballs watching over what you do. And then sometimes I feel like I pushed the, the wagon up the hill because, you know, I just wanna go ahead and do it. And I'm like, oh, let's see, you know, um.
52:50 Emma Grede? Yeah, there's checks and balances and things that change. But again, I think that that's uh, that's very honest from you because things do change.
52:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
52:58 Emma Grede? When you sell and you have to be aware of that. I mean, I feel like I've been around so many founders who are like, oh, this person bought my business and now everything's changed. I'm like, what do you expect? You took a check. Like, that's what happens, right? It's like.
53:10 Speaker 02 But it's also an opportunity and to scale a business, you need a totally different set of people. You need like, you need like the best people and they, they, they have the best people in their company.
53:22 Emma Grede? Yeah.
53:22 Speaker 02 You know, I have the best for travel retail, I have the best of, you know, retail, I, I have the best lab there. By the way, products are all under my supervision. There's nothing that um will change or these products are my babies. And that's what I said, a friend, I don't care about your margin. I'm, I'm the boss of every single product leaving the factory.
53:43 Emma Grede? No, and I imagine that they want that because that's what's made this brand so successful these years. That we had amazing product actually works.
53:50 Speaker 02 That's.
53:50 Emma Grede? And now we know it because it's tested.
53:52 Speaker 02 Yes, exactly, exactly. No, they're totally excited about the products and they understand it and they understand me completely. So they're actually super good and following, following my lead.
54:01 Emma Grede? What's the future of the brand for you now?
54:04 Speaker 02 Uh, hopefully, um. World domination, what I always wanted.
54:07 Emma Grede? What does that look like to you? Like, what is world domination? When you're in all of the best stores all over the world, you have this incredible brand that really, to me, seemingly feels so pure. There is like, the brand is so pure. You've never sold out. I don't feel like you've ever done anything that's taken away from what it is that you mean to your customers. Like, what does world domination look like?
54:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, you're right. The message has never changed. The philosophy was always the philosophy. That's another thing which I think is very important for creating a business. Don't change with trends. Stay to your belief and stay really, really consistent.
54:41 Emma Grede? How have you managed to do that, given how much is happening in your space all the time?
54:46 Speaker 02 I believe one thing and I say it, I say it, I say it. And I said so many times, don't use retinol. And I got attacked by so many people.
54:51 Emma Grede? Oh, yeah, I remember.
54:52 Speaker 02 Oh, she's not a real doctor and she's not this and this. It's just my opinion. I'm not telling people what to do. Everybody can use whatever they want on their skin. I just have this anti-inflammatory approach and I stick to it, you know? And I think with the mindset of people today wanting to live healthy, wanting to be educated about health and prevention, not getting sick, they understand, oh, frequencies and products do this to me. Or retinol on my skin does that. Maybe I shouldn't do it. Maybe I should eat more healthy anti-inflammatory diet. Maybe I should drink more water, maybe. So while people learning this, they will understand more and more and more that this anti-inflammatory theory, because if you look at longevity treatments,
55:36 Speaker 02 they all come down to one thing, reducing inflammation. And this mindset and this philosophy will break through. And then I think our brand should be the leading brand.
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56:27 Emma Grede? What is your longevity routine? Because I know you're in Stade and I know that like being in that, being in Stade last year, I thought that being in L A, I had a longevity routine and I was like, oh, no, you don't, girl. This is like on a whole different level. What are you doing?
56:44 Speaker 02 But you can spend hours and hours and hours. If you do this every day consistently.
56:50 Emma Grede? Are you spending hours and hours and hours?
56:52 Speaker 02 I spend, but I do things in between and I don't do it every day, but I, I try to work while I'm doing certain things in my routine. But what I do, I drink first, I drink already a little water when I, when I get up. With lemon, a warm water with lemon. But um, that you need to get in in the morning right away. Otherwise, you know, I don't drink enough water throughout the day. And then I do my breathing techniques to make sure you get the oxygen in your system.
57:20 Emma Grede? With a machine or just?
57:22 Speaker 02 No, just you do your, you can do a breathing technique, like it costs like six minutes or something. And yeah, I bring Pepper to school. I, you know, do all my errands. I also have five dogs. It's quite a lot of things to do. But then I'm, I'm doing a few peptides because I also had a knee injury and a knee surgery. So.
57:40 Emma Grede? You injecting or you just?
57:42 Speaker 02 I inject, I inject some peptides ever since my knee surgery. And that's also quite interesting because I, I wanted to, I, I thought, how could I have had this accident? It's stupid. What did I do? How stupid am I?
57:54 Emma Grede? Did you get it by tennis?
57:56 Speaker 02 No, I was, I wasn't even skiing, you know, I wasn't even skiing. I was standing with my skis with Pepper and Pepper and my skis kind of like, you know, and we slowly went down and I was, I have to get down and I just. Yeah, I was just, it wasn't, wasn't cool and I was so upset about it. And then I said, you know what? Do the surgery, I would be skiing next season. I do the surgery and I will just get the fittest myself. The, you know, and from the day of surgery, the next day I started working out, everything and then I I I had the speediest recovery. Ever because I was so dedicated.
58:31 Emma Grede? Are you lifting weights?
58:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, I do it all. And I I wasn't so good about this before. I really started with this injury. So the biggest challenges are the greatest opportunities.
58:41 Emma Grede? Hmm.
58:41 Speaker 02 And I became so good about everything. And yeah, I'm doing for longevity, I'm I have like the most amazing physio. Who is also like a guru kind of person, but he made me fit like everything. I I do. Pool workouts, I'm super lame, but it's so effective.
59:01 Emma Grede? Really?
59:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, I do everything. And then I have.
59:03 Emma Grede? In the water?
59:03 Speaker 02 In the water, yeah. It's super effective and it's so great for your body and for your lymph system and everything. And then I have a red light bed. I use every day for twenty minutes.
59:14 Emma Grede? Every day?
59:15 Speaker 02 If I can, yeah, but I do phone calls on it. So it's like I just go on and like.
59:19 Emma Grede? I'm always like weird about phone calls on the red light bed, but that's fine. You're just like on the phone. All right, fine.
59:24 Speaker 02 I'm just on.
59:25 Emma Grede? Twenty minutes every day.
59:26 Speaker 02 And then people say, are you on a red light? But I say, yeah.
59:28 Emma Grede? Yep. Hmm, quite a little hum there.
59:31 Speaker 02 But I also do PMF, Matt, alkaline in your body.
59:35 Emma Grede? Yes, I did that at the at the hotel in Stade last year.
59:38 Speaker 02 So you do first PMF, then you do ten minutes on on oxygen. You put the oxygen mask on and you ride the bike. So you get a lot of oxygen in your system. And then you go on to the red light and then the oxygen through the red light gets. Pressed into your mitochondria, the power machines of our cells. So this is the idea and I love it.
1:00:00 Emma Grede? And you're doing all of that every day?
1:00:03 Speaker 02 No, not every day. I'm.
1:00:05 Emma Grede? Few times a week?
1:00:05 Speaker 02 Also I travel, yeah. Yeah, I try to do it as much as I can. And then I have the most amazing yoga person in in Stade. And I don't like yoga. I really, it's not my thing.
1:00:16 Emma Grede? I've never been a yoga person.
1:00:18 Speaker 02 No, it's not my thing.
1:00:18 Emma Grede? I do reformer Pilates, but it's like, I wish I was a yoga person. I know it's the best thing for the posture, for old age, for our job. I mean, it's just the best.
1:00:28 Speaker 02 But I mostly do.
1:00:29 Emma Grede? I mean, you really are doing the most. It's a fair amount.
1:00:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, you know, I, I, I do it in this yoga.
1:00:34 Emma Grede? We could be on like, you know, I don't know, Huberman or like one of these right now.
1:00:37 Speaker 02 When you come in August, we do it together.
1:00:39 Emma Grede? No, I'm gonna do the whole thing. That is, that's why it's the end of my vacation because I go and it's like, after all the tox, I detox.
1:00:48 Speaker 02 I don't know.
1:00:49 Emma Grede? It's like I'm dipping red wine out of my, what, rosé from my veins.
1:00:53 Speaker 02 Busy socially. It's, it's like, it's like funny, there is like.
1:00:57 Emma Grede? Do you feel like it's made a big difference? Like all of this longevity, because we hear so much about all this longevity stuff. You, who is a doctor, who has a clear view of your medical levels before and after. You feel like it makes a huge difference.
1:01:14 Speaker 02 One hundred percent. And I see my inflammation levels going down because my inflammation was quite high from all the stress and travelling. And I had so much stress. I was like, it's, you know, the stress rises to your cortisol and you get so much inflammation. And it all went down. I have like the lowest inflammation levels. And again, longevity treatments all bring down inflammation. Breathing techniques brings down inflammation, workout, breathing oxygen brings down inflammation. It's so good for you. And if you feel it necessarily, it's with every anti-aging treatment. You don't know how it would be if you didn't do it. So it's like, you know, what do you want to compare it to? But, you know, to just sitting in the office and before and, you know, I have a strong back.
1:01:58 Speaker 02 I have like, there are so many things coming together. It's a game changer.
1:02:01 Emma Grede? Game changer.
1:02:02 Speaker 02 I really want, and, and LA is so good about it, by the way. You know, everybody's so healthy and, and.
1:02:08 Emma Grede? No, I'm far healthier here than I would ever be living in England. That's for sure.
1:02:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, for sure.
1:02:12 Emma Grede? That's for sure. What do you think for people that are starting their careers now? Cause there's just like so much out there, so much opportunity for people, so much choice. When you look back on the career that you've had, what would you say to people starting out now?
1:02:29 Speaker 02 Do the things you love. Um, for example, skincare is such a big, big thing and everybody loves skincare and I'm taking on interns, you know, the daughters of my friends and they're all coming and come and learn. We're doing college ambassador programs, school activation stuff.
1:02:45 Emma Grede? How wonderful to be able to offer that.
1:02:46 Speaker 02 It's so cute. I, I love mentoring. I love supporting people who are trying to figure out. I'm still, I'm, I'm with Peppa and her friends. We have little brainstormings. We, we do like little education. I'm going to their school. It's just nice to see the next generation come and, and, and coming with their ideas. And such an amazing generation, by the way. I love Peppa's, Peppa's A U kids. They have such an amazing way of thinking. They're so fair. They're so, they, they wanna do everything right. And they're, they're genuine. They're, I love them. And I like to spend time with the kids and help them. And yeah, do what you love. Follow your dreams. You can fulfill your dreams.
1:03:26 Speaker 02 There's no one who can stop you if you just believe in it and believe in passion and work for it. And work your ass off and take risks and go for it. You can, you can do anything.
1:03:38 Emma Grede? It's really true. I love that advice.
1:03:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:03:41 Emma Grede? All right, we're gonna move into some rapid fire. What is the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
1:03:47 Speaker 02 I cuddle my kid.
1:03:48 Emma Grede? Oh.
1:03:48 Speaker 02 You know, she's sleeping with me. Not always, but sometimes, and I love it. And I kiss her and cuddle her and it's the best.
1:03:55 Emma Grede? So lovely. And the last thing you do before you go to bed at night?
1:03:58 Speaker 02 Same.
1:03:59 Emma Grede? So nice. A good kiss and a cuddle.
1:04:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:04:02 Emma Grede? So good.
1:04:03 Speaker 02 I think these kids, they need to grow up with so much love. They need to listen to how much we love them every day, how special they are, how proud we are of them. And they, they need that, especially when you work so much.
1:04:14 Emma Grede? Mm-hmm.
1:04:15 Speaker 02 You're gone all day or overnight or whatever. It's, it's the one thing they, the, the relationship of tru- the trust of the kid in you, I think is unbreakable and it's so important.
1:04:28 Emma Grede? It's absolutely true. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life?
1:04:33 Speaker 02 Having the best people around me. It's still something I'm looking to optimize. Because I wanna scale and scale and scale. I I I really, I'm driven. And I wanna find the very best people for the level of growth in my in my business.
1:04:52 Emma Grede? Yeah. It's not easy.
1:04:54 Speaker 02 No, it's not easy. If you have any recommendations.
1:04:56 Emma Grede? I'm like a part-time recruitment consultant. What do you need?
1:05:00 Speaker 02 I can imagine.
1:05:01 Emma Grede? It's true. Well, I send a, I do think, and I say this all the time. I reckon it is twenty five percent of my time. I actually spend bringing the right people into the business. Because when you have the right people.
1:05:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:05:13 Emma Grede? The the way that, well, it just, it makes your life easier. It stops you from stressing. You learn so much. It's like, at this point, how can I know so much about everything? I don't.
1:05:23 Speaker 02 Very good. You need to find the people who are better than you. If you think someone is better, you listen to them.
1:05:29 Emma Grede? Mm hmm. You learn from them.
1:05:30 Speaker 02 Quite interesting as well. I also always need a sparing partner. I need to talk to someone who I get excited with.
1:05:37 Emma Grede? That within the interview process. Because when I interview, I also am like, this takes so much time. But it's like, I'm learning in every single interview. Because you understand how other companies do it, what you might wanna avoid, what you might want to start doing. And so I take that whole process as a very big learning.
1:05:53 Speaker 02 Never stop learning. Never. Don't think you know everything.
1:05:56 Emma Grede? Then you're in trouble, Barbara. Um, what are you currently aspiring for in your personal life?
1:06:01 Speaker 02 I just love my life. I move to a place where I have the work life and struggling.
1:06:09 Speaker 02 Where where I do my sports. Where I have the most amazing community and friends. Where my kid is safe and can go to school in a normal way. Where I breathe oxygen, actually real oxygen, every day. And where I can do my longevity program. Because, you know, I'm a little older than you. So at one point, you really have to take care of yourself. And I started really religiously doing that. And I love it. It's, and I learn so much. I have great people around me. People who are smart and and and interesting. Love it.
1:06:43 Emma Grede? I love that. Um, what is the book that changed your life?
1:06:47 Speaker 02 Krishnamurti, actually. I li- I love, I love his philosophy. And you can learn so much by just reading a page here and there. So you don't have to. Read like, you know.
1:06:57 Emma Grede? No, you can just take this. I love that. That's my favourite. When you can have a book on the bedside and just pick it up to any page.
1:07:03 Speaker 02 And then you fall asleep, but you had like this one page.
1:07:05 Emma Grede? The best, the best. You're like that. I felt that.
1:07:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:07:08 Emma Grede? All right. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you no longer value?
1:07:14 Speaker 02 That's kind of a bad thing that I don't value what I used to value.
1:07:17 Emma Grede? Maybe it's a bad thing.
1:07:18 Speaker 02 I wanna not have changed in my personality. I don't wanna think of myself, oh, I'm this amazing or I wanna be exactly who I was. And I think for me, this hasn't changed. I, I still have the same values and I value, I value great food, I value great people, I value friendship, I value help.
1:07:42 Emma Grede? Barbara, that might be the best answer we've had to this question.
1:07:44 Speaker 02 Really?
1:07:45 Emma Grede? Yeah. You're just you.
1:07:47 Speaker 02 I'm just me. But you know, some people, when they're successful, they become asshole.
1:07:51 Emma Grede? Yes, a lot of them.
1:07:52 Speaker 02 Yeah. And they're not like, you know, and but this is keep your feet on the ground. And my best friends are still my best friends. And it's just the cool things you have around you, they should stay.
1:08:06 Emma Grede? Barbara, thank you so much. I love speaking to you.
1:08:08 Speaker 02 Thank you. I'm so happy to see you.
1:08:09 Emma Grede? Congratulations for all your success. You are.
1:08:11 Speaker 02 Thank you. And by the way, to you, you're incredible. I'm so, I'm so in awe of everything you do. You're, you're a good, good testimonial and idol for all our kids to watch.
1:08:22 Emma Grede? No, I love you for saying that. And the same to you, my love. Thanks again.
1:08:32 Emma Grede? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favourite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Corinne, Gillian Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music. By Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Homann.
1:09:17 Emma Grede? Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meeke, Shaun Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at AspireWithEmmaGreed. Greed is spelled G R E D E. That's Aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me.
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