Kumail Nanjiani Returns

Kumail Nanjiani (Night Thoughts, Eternals, The Big Sick) is an actor, writer, and comedian. Kumail returns to the Armchair Expert to discuss working out his foot trauma, addressing the plastic surgery rumors, and why the Schwarzenegger pump is better than sex. Kumail and Dax talk about the benefit of going towards what we perceive to be our limits, why the gym is the only place many men feel comfortable being physically intimate with one another, and wrestling with if he contributes to the discourse around men’s bodies that affected him as a kid. Kumail explains why learning to like himself has been more important than anything else, his belief that taking yourself too seriously is the death of comedy, and how long it took him to realize how sensitive he is. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Today, we have a returning guest. I think this is Kumail's third appearance on the show.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:11Dax Shepard?

  He had a solo, he had Rob, he and Rob, Men's Body ish.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Rob Mack, as you'll hear.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  Which I still need to text him and find out.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  You do.

• 0:19Dax Shepard?

  I gotta verify this claim. Shit.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  It's real. I saw it online.

• 0:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it is?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Kumail Nanjiani is an actor, a stand-up comedian, and a screenwriter. He was in The Big Sick, of course, Silicon Valley, Stuber, Eternals, The Lovebirds, and he has a stand-up special that is streaming right now on Hulu that I loved called Night Thoughts. Please enjoy our friend Kumail Nanjiani. We get support from Quince.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 0:57Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  $60. $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen, and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy, it's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 1:38Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time, and he looks iconic.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 1:48Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel-quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully-designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 2:06Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else.

• 2:55Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 3:13Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 3:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Experts sent you.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Your friend makes sparkling water?

• 4:13Dax Shepard?

  Nope. Do you know Ethan Suplee?

• 4:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:16Dax Shepard?

  You do?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:17Dax Shepard?

  The most special guy on the planet, right?

• 4:18Speaker 02

  He's a great guy, yeah.

• 4:19Dax Shepard?

  He's magic, but he texts me out of the blue.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  He had a big body journey as well.

• 4:23Dax Shepard?

  He had the most impressive.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  He had the most impressive, yeah.

• 4:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, those before and afters. And I worked with him on Without a Paddle 21 years ago. He was probably down to 330 from 410.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  410.

• 4:38Dax Shepard?

  That was his max. In Butterfly Effect, that movie, Monica's rejoins us for the listener, she squirted.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I did take the option to squirt on my male.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Don't say that. Don't give in. This is how you hold on.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  I have to pick my battles here, okay?

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Well, that one, though, that's not one of the ones you pick.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  It's not. You'd be shocked.

• 5:00Dax Shepard?

  But Butterfly Effect, I don't know if you ever saw that movie.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  With Ashton?

• 5:03Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. Ethan was 410 in that.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  How tall is he? Like 6'2" max?

• 5:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's big. He's probably 6'1" or 6'2".

• 5:10Speaker 02

  410 is, you know.

• 5:11Dax Shepard?

  That's a massive amount of weight. I don't know where he's at now, but if you follow him on Instagram, he's like clearly in the 230 range.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  We used to go to the same gym, so.

• 5:19Dax Shepard?

  Is that how you know him?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  I know him just from being around.

• 5:24Dax Shepard?

  Being a famous actor.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Nice guy. Kim and TJ did a movie called Unstoppable.

• 5:29Dax Shepard?

  With Denzel?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Who's, I don't know who that is.

• 5:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, there's a very famous black actor.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Oh, John David's dad. Yeah, so I think I met him through TJ back then and we kind of stayed in touch. But then I would run into him at the gym and I worked with his sister-in-law, Juliette Lewis.

• 5:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes. You know your stuff.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:49Dax Shepard?

  It's so good to see you. It's been a long time.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  I haven't seen you in a while. We've texted, but we haven't really seen you. You look big. You look big. What are you doing?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Do you like it? Let's just start with, do you like it?

• 6:01Speaker 02

  I like it. When I hugged you, I felt it before I saw it.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  And did you like bounce off? I'm worried people are like bouncing off.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Emily says when I first did that, she was like, it's like having sex with the corner of a building.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  And that's what it felt like hugging you. It was like trying to hug the corner of a building.

• 6:18Dax Shepard?

  Corner of a building. Yes, we text each other often, you, Rob McElhenney and I.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Well, Rob Mack now. He changed his name.

• 6:25Dax Shepard?

  No, he did not.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Legally changed his name.

• 6:26Dax Shepard?

  No, he didn't.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Yep. In the credits, it says Rob Mack.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Wait.

• 6:29Dax Shepard?

  That's so helpful because I could never nail McElhenney.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  I know. I've never said it with confidence. My name is Nanjiani. Yeah. With McElhenney, I don't know where to stress. Is it McElhenney? McAlany?

• 6:40Dax Shepard?

  And I once said his name wrong on here and he texts me and he said, listen, this is how it works. After the C, if it's followed by a vowel.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  I'm checked out already.

• 6:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I've already stopped paying attention.

• 6:49Dax Shepard?

  You want to know the rule? Like McDonald's, because it's a little C and then a consonant, that's Mac. I must have this wrong if he changed his name to Mac. Mick, yeah, that's Mick.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  That's McDonald's.

• 6:59Dax Shepard?

  McDonald's. If there's a vowel, it's McElhenney.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  I never knew that.

• 7:04Dax Shepard?

  It's too much. I'm glad he went with Mac.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  That's wild that he did that. That's a huge identity shit.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I believe he had a big press conference about it.

• 7:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he did?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  I don't think he had a conference, but I think there was a press release.

• 7:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:16Dax Shepard?

  This is like Kirby was Baptista.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Baptista.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's great. What's it now?

• 7:23Dax Shepard?

  Kirby's now just Kirby.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Just one name Kirby?

• 7:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes, isn't it cool? She said she second guessed it a bunch, but she's sticking with it.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Just Kirby?

• 7:31Dax Shepard?

  Just Kirby.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  I think of Kirby as like Mario's buddy, the little cloud guy.

• 7:37Dax Shepard?

  I think of the vacuum cleaner from the eighties.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  I've never heard of that.

• 7:40Dax Shepard?

  Beautiful machine. Heavy, heavy metal design.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Vacuum cleaners in the eighties were gorgeous.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  They really were.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were pretty. They weren't trying to be sleek. They were like, this is what I am.

• 7:50Dax Shepard?

  And even that very famous artist in New York who has a factory, Koots.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  Some of his first work that got all the acclaim was just these lucite glass boxes with these vacuums in them as they came from Sears. And those are worth millions.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  What was he saying?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I have problems with this.

• 8:05Dax Shepard?

  To crawl into the mind of.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  You have problems with objects being co-opted and called art?

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  He didn't invent that vacuum cleaner. If he invented the vacuum cleaner and then put it in the box, that's fine.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  I used to be like that. And now I'm like, you know what? If anything gets a reaction, it can be art. So if they can articulate, like the big thing was a toilet seat hanging on the wall. People were like, this is art. Well, in that context, I guess it is art. I'm not paying a million dollars for two vacuum cleaners and a box of lucite. But if you can get away with it, get away with it.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  But is this art? My foot?

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Is your foot art? I bet to some people it is.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Oh, that's true. My friend with the foot fetish.

• 8:47Dax Shepard?

  We have a friend with a foot fetish.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  He does like my feet.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Do you really? I mean, feet is a thing.

• 8:52Dax Shepard?

  He's safe. He's married. There's no threat.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's no threat.

• 8:55Dax Shepard?

  But he is obsessed with Monica's feet. And he one time took a cheese grater to them?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, he really went at it.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  What do you, what do you go up to? What the fuck are you talking about? He's safe. He just wants cheese grated in my feet. Your bar is so low, Monica.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I know. I'm sorry. I have to take it where I can get it.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Wait, was he getting the dry skin?

• 9:15Dax Shepard?

  Can't you relate though, Kumail? If like a girl wanted to do anything to my feet, I'd be like, yes, thank you.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  But I didn't do it. I was receiving.

• 9:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm saying, I'm putting myself in your shoes.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 9:25Dax Shepard?

  And if a woman is interested in my feet, I'm just so flattered by that.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  I feel quite self-conscious about my feet. I've been on set sometimes and they're like, all right, could you have your socks off for this? I'm like, I need a week's notice before you could do that.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  What do you do during the week to get them prepped?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  I have gotten pedicures. I've only gotten like two or three in my life, but it's such a good.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  They're so nice.

• 9:45Dax Shepard?

  It is heavenly. It has a bigger impact than it should.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  It really makes you feel good. I got, somebody was massaging my jaw muscles today and I started crying about my dead grandmother. I don't know what's stored over here. Like there's a lot going on in here. Years of trauma right here. And so I'm like, I need to work this out.

• 10:05Dax Shepard?

  I just read something, and take it with a grain of salt, I read it online, but it was explaining why. It's, the number was 67% of people have teeth loss nightmares or something with their teeth.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  I do.

• 10:17Dax Shepard?

  So it's the vast majority of people do. And the explanation is when you're very, very stressed, you clench your jaws a lot. And then when you go to sleep, your brain's kind of figuring out why your muscles so fatigued.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  100% that makes sense.

• 10:31Dax Shepard?

  So it's all about kind of clenching your jaw and that's how it manifests itself at night, which is fascinating.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  I used to grind my teeth a lot. I have a mouthguard that I don't wear as often as I should. But honestly, massaging the jaw muscles has helped relieve that. I once got Botox in my jaw.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  I've heard about that.

• 10:47Dax Shepard?

  I've heard this.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  It was just keeping me up at night.

• 10:49Dax Shepard?

  When I was watching your standup special, I was really transfixed on what an incredible jawline you have. And I was wondering, has getting jacked changed your jawline?

• 10:58Speaker 02

  It has. People think I got jaw implants or something. I have not. I have gotten no work done. All I did was I got Botox here.

• 11:06Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  And then they were like, while you're here, you want to do your forehead too? And I did it and I will never do it again.

• 11:11Dax Shepard?

  Why not do it again?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Because I could not move my eyebrows and I have very expressive eyebrows. And I had a job starting, I was gonna act in something two months from then. And I was just terrified, what if I can't do it? Because what happens is if you gotta make the faces, you stop feeling those things as well.

• 11:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they work both directions.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  And so that is really, I mean, you know, I've gotten microneedling. I'm not a fucking monster, but. I want to make this clear. I don't have jaw implants. I guess I'll take it as a compliment.

• 11:39Dax Shepard?

  You and I are in the exact same situation, which is when I saw your stand up special and I saw that you addressed all this. I was like, oh my God. A, I love that this is happening. You're doing it in public. I've had these fantasies. Like, do I try to address a lot of this stuff you addressed in the stand up special?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  You get some, not to get into it, you get some real unfair nonsense sometimes.

• 11:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, thank you. Thank you.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  You should get into it.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  I really do feel that.

• 12:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, great. But I will acknowledge, I'll be watching with my children, like parenthood, we watch with them. And I'm going, oh my God, dude, I look so different. It looks like I got some kind of jaw implant or something. There's something about your neck getting thicker. It changes your whole.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  It really does. Body fat goes down. I think that just changes the shape of your face. I had a friend today send me a picture of us together from like 12 years ago. And I was like, I look like a child.

• 12:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, right out of the gates, Monty, for Night Thoughts, his stand up special, Kamel starts with like, okay, the muscles. What do you say?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  I say, don't be scared of the muscles. They can't hurt you. They're decorative, which is totally true. These muscles are decorative. They haven't done it in honest days. They've worked in their life.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  You've used them for nothing.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  I've used them for nothing, except moving weight up and down 10 times. That is all they can do.

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had the thought, over the last six years or something, when I add up how many hours I've spent exercising, I have to admit, I could have got a PhD in something. I mean, it's the most time I've committed to anything other than work.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Wow. For me, it's gonna be video games, then work, then working out. Probably, yeah. But I work out still every day. I love it. I don't know how not to work out. If I'm stressed, like I had a rough day three days ago and I was like, I'm gonna go work out because I cannot be around human beings right now.

• 13:24Dax Shepard?

  I'm certain I will feel at least marginally better than I currently do if I go do that.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  100%. The only things that I know that I can do physically that make me feel better every single time, working out and meditating. Sometimes it completely turns the day around. Sometimes it just helps three degrees, but it always, 100% of the time helps.

• 13:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Just got into this like three episodes ago. It was so timely. I saw your stand up because I was saying to Monica, it's really hard to evaluate yourself from inside your own eyes, right? But there are moments where I either see a picture or I see another dude that I can somehow acknowledge that's my exact size. And I go, oh, I'm too big. I might look stupid, but then I go, but I'm not going to change because this is the result of this thing I have to do or I want to do, or it gives me however much comfort or something about it. These are now just the results. I was aiming for something for a while, but then the thing happened and now it is a confusing experience. Do you have that?

• 14:20Speaker 02

  I do. I think the way people see me is not how I see myself, you know? When I started doing stand up again, Emily was like, the biggest weirdest thing for you is going to be people experiencing differently on stage. So the shit you used to do, you can't really do anymore. So when I was like skinny and I would do like fake arrogance and now I can't do fake arrogance on stage because it comes off as real arrogance. So I can play with that because I do feel like I'm very self-aware about this. I did have a casting director recently pull me aside and go, you gotta bring this down because it does limit.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Bring down the muscles?

• 14:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And how did you take that? What thoughts sprung off from there?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Also, is it racist?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, how much time you got?

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I think there's some element of that.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  It's weird because there was some of that reaction to me getting buffed and I can't not think that that was an aspect of it, that like, you know, stay in your lane kind of thing. Like that's not what we want from you kind of thing. I don't know. I can't guess to it, but it just feels like that's maybe a part of it. My reaction to the casting director saying that to me was at first it was panic. One, I was like, have I missed out on parts because of this? And I can think of one situation where I did. But I get so much out of it. And so I have started, this is about a month ago, trying to work out differently because I do need it. And it's not doing cardio instead because the lifting of heavy weights

• 15:42Speaker 02

  does something for me. Like lifting big, heavy things affects me, makes me feel my body differently and I enjoy that feeling too much.

• 15:50Dax Shepard?

  And I'll argue, because I do both. So if I go hike six miles. I don't for the rest of the day have this great feeling in my body. I have kind of a tired feeling. My back's a little sore. When I have a great workout, I feel the fucking Schwarzenegger pump.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  I was just gonna say the arms Schwarzenegger pump. The pump is better than sex. It is like this for all day long. You feel it. It's like a little tight. Yeah, I love it. I'm addicted to it. Yeah, it's just the right amount. When you do a big workout and the next day you got the doms, you know, you're like, oh, yeah. Last time we talked about rapdo.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Oh, that's the rapdo.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  That's the dream.

• 16:27Dax Shepard?

  I've convinced myself I had it a couple of times.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  I always think I have it and I'm not working out.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  My favorite feeling, I mean, I don't know how your listeners feel about this. Laying on a bench with a weight above my body that's like, if I lose focus and drop this, I am going to the hospital.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  So it forces me to get out of my body. I'm not thinking about my problems or the thing I said wrong at the party or whether this thing is gonna get picked up or how that audition, whatever it is. I have to respect this weight right now, because if I don't, I'm going to.

• 16:58Dax Shepard?

  It makes you present.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Exactly. Which for a lot of us is a big challenge. So that's what I get the most out of it is that I'm really right there staring at this thing.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Same with meditation. It is the same thing. It's giving you presence.

• 17:10Dax Shepard?

  You should get into motorcycle racing. That too does that same thing. If you think about what you have to do tomorrow, you're gonna go off the track.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  That's too scary.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay, we'll work on that.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  That's one step too far.

• 17:19Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna add one thing, so I relate to all that. And then the other thing I do like about it and why I don't want to change my workout is so much of your life is so subjective. And these are just straight numbers. It's like, okay, I do 15 sets of this weight. And when I can't, I know I've declined. And when I exceed that or it's easy, it's an objective evaluation of myself every single day.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  That's such a huge part of it. All through the pandemic, the only way I could progress was in the gym. Nothing else was moving, but I would be like, I could lift this weight five times today. Last week I could only lift it four times.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  So it's really being like, oh, I have made progress in this thing and it is verifiable and objective. That's a big part of it.

• 17:59Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  And just the feeling of doing something that you didn't think you were capable of doing. I think a lot of us limit ourselves all the time with like, I could do that. I can't do that. By the way, I love Maru coffee. Really good coffee.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  We love it. We love it here.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  It's really good.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I used to live right by it.

• 18:15Dax Shepard?

  ADHD.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  I bet a little bit. I feel it a little bit.

• 18:20Dax Shepard?

  I can't get up.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 18:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm sorry, I said it.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  But we limit ourselves more than I think a lot of times the situation limits us or our environment limits us. So I think just being able to go past what you conceive to be your limits in any aspect of your life helps you do that in other aspects of your life.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yes, I agree.

• 18:38Dax Shepard?

  And then it just builds this kind of sustained confidence. Well, we'll get into all of them in each other.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  I also have this thing, this is gonna sound very arrogant, when I'm really feeling myself, I like just how I look in the mirror.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I just like it.

• 18:52Dax Shepard?

  I like that, too. To your point, I put all these limits on myself. It was like all through my twenties, I was like, well genetically, I don't have a six pack. Some guys have them, which is true. There were kids in my school that just were jacked.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Fifteen year olds with six packs, for sure.

• 19:06Dax Shepard?

  And because I didn't have that, just out of the gates with no effort, I decided I genetically wasn't capable of that. So that's one cool reward is like, oh, I'm capable of more things. But moving through the world as a dude with muscles, the reaction from other dudes is almost universal and I love it. I love that men touch my arm and they squeeze me. I just love it.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  This is so funny because I was telling Emily about this. I was like, guys will comment on my body all the time. And she's like, they're hitting on you. I'm like, they're not hitting on me, they're just commenting on my body. And then we were in New York for a few months. You're out and about on the streets with more people. And she saw it happen like 35 times where just obviously guys who are not hitting on me, commenting on very specific parts of my body.

• 19:54Dax Shepard?

  It's so primitive.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  At the gym with dudes is the only time men can be physically intimate with other men. Talking about, man, look at your quads, like spotting someone when they're squatting, you know?

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're basically butt blocking him, yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's the only time.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a standing spoon.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  It's the only time men feel comfortable being physically intimate with other men.

• 20:14Dax Shepard?

  And as a wrestler, and there's some other sports, all sports in a sense are like homoerotic. We're so starved for any kind of affection.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  You are. What would happen if that got cured for all men? That it was like, it's fine, you guys can just touch each other and hug and be affectionate? So much would be fixed.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  You're totally right. Of course, I've been married almost 20 years, but people were like, did you get more attention from girls when you got buff? I was like, no, more from guys.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Zero change in how women react.

• 20:42Dax Shepard?

  No, it's just for each other.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  I actually have the opposite question. Did Emily feel like we gotta talk about this? Because Dax did a show with his best friend, Aaron, and I was on it and someone wrote in and said, "My partner, my husband, is starting to get really, really, really buff and going to the gym all the time and drinking protein shakes and doing all this, and I'm uncomfortable with it."

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Well, one thing I want to ask is, was this woman upset about how buff he was getting or how much time and energy he was devoting to getting buff?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 21:13Dax Shepard?

  That's what we debated. So it was just a write-in. So we couldn't ask any follow-up questions?

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Right, because the obsession I get being like, "Hey, this is too much."

• 21:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, that was my point is like, is he not available for his duties as a father, as a husband, as anything? If that's an issue, then that's obvious. If it's, "I don't know this person. I'm afraid that this new version of them isn't gonna love me." I can relate to that and I have a lot of sympathy for that. But there's so many reasons.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  For Emily, she did say, she's like, "If we went on a first date and you were this buff, I'd think there was something really wrong with you."

• 21:44Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Just because she knows me and has known me for over a decade that this happened, she was like, "That's not gonna come out."

• 21:51Dax Shepard?

  I really fucking do.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  It's so green, dude.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did spill.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  What are you drinking, straight chlorophyll?

• 21:59Dax Shepard?

  It's 22 ounces of wheatgrass.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  You're just converting sunlight into food.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  It's a yummy matcha?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  I don't like matcha. It feels like falling face first on the ground.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, people think it's grass.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  I think it tastes like gross grass.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Everyone's talking about Kumail's muscles and not Dax's. He's getting upset.

• 22:14Dax Shepard?

  What was that bad of an interview? It was like, every time it was about you, I just set myself on fire or something.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  No, but this is interesting, I think.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Emily understood that it meant, since I was a little kid, I wanted to be a certain way and I wasn't. And now I get to be the way I wanted to be. And there's a lot to unpack there. But she always trusted me to go on whatever journey I wanted. Now, there are times where she's like, "I like the way you look right now." And it's generally not the biggest and most cut I've been. It's almost never that. It's like when I'm a little bit softer. She's like, "I think to me, this is the ideal male physique that I want."

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  And that's how I know it's time to diet.

• 22:51Dax Shepard?

  That's my cue to.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not trying to impress you, honey. I'm trying to impress other men. I already got you.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  I just wonder when you're allowed to say to your partner, you know, this is a bigger question. You marry someone or you fall in love with someone and then they change. People change over time. We all do. And is it okay to say, you know what? I don't like it.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  How would you feel about that if someone didn't like their partner gaining weight?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Exactly. No, I'm including all of it.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, now that's very tricky.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  How do you do it? And is it allowed? If you're hearing someone say gaining weight, you'd be like, absolutely not. They're not allowed to say that. They have to accept you.

• 23:35Dax Shepard?

  But what's funny is both attempts to address that would be veiled under the same thing, which would be health.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Sure, concern trolling.

• 23:43Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that was called concern trolling?

• 23:45Speaker 02

  It's called concern trolling. We're like, are you okay? You're looking a little skinny or whatever. Internet is full of it.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 23:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and so I've heard people try to act like what I'm doing is somehow not healthy.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Obviously, there's a way to take it where it's not healthy, but you look very healthy. Nothing about you is like, oh, I'm concerned for this person. The one thing that I do think about and struggle with as public figures is when I was a little kid and I would see buff men, it would upset me that I didn't look like that. And now am I contributing to men feeling bad about themselves? Little teenage boys feeling bad about themselves? Because the decision I made was very personal. But I do have to acknowledge the fact that as a public figure, I am out there and people do see, you know, you Google me, the first five pictures are all shirtless. Is that making someone feel bad about themselves?

• 24:33Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 24:34Dax Shepard?

  Can I counter that?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Sure, please.

• 24:36Dax Shepard?

  You're a brilliant improv artist. You're a hysterical comedian. If someone's watching you do comedy that aspires to do comedy and can't do it as good as you and they feel like shit, should you stop being really funny? I mean, literally, should you limit your potential in any domain? Because it might make someone else feel bad. No. Should you write less good if you're a fucking author? No, that's crazy. You can't diminish your own self out of fear of what the fallout might be. You might also inspire, that might be 10% of the reaction and 90% of people might go on a health journey that makes them live 10 years longer.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  I've had a lot of people say that. For me, I always say like, just. Be healthy, of course, and just be the version of you that you can like. Often, it doesn't have to do anything with how you look or whatever. Obviously, be healthy, that's good. But learning to love yourself, I think, is more important than anything. And for me, sadly, I have been on this journey of being like, I like myself. And part of that has had to do with my body transformation. Yes. It's a little unavoidable, and I wish it wasn't part of it, but I know it is.

• 25:43Dax Shepard?

  Well, listen, you're exacting control and outcome on a world that is very hard to exact control and outcome. So that's very, it's very satisfying.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I have a real control thing. So I sort of have an obsessive personality, and I'm very lucky in that I know it just doesn't go towards stuff that would ruin my life.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  You're not addicty.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Not addicty, but I feel it when I'm gambling. I feel that.

• 26:06Dax Shepard?

  Ah, the tiger.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  So I have to be very careful gambling. Like, I can't really play. Sometimes, you know, I don't really play sports, but if I'm like in any kind of competitive situation, I start to have that come out. You know where it gets awkward? Like, hey, dude, we're just playing a fucking board game.

• 26:18Dax Shepard?

  How are you at your video games? Are you yelling at people on the headsets and stuff?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:23Dax Shepard?

  Are you anonymous when you play? Do you play?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  I don't play online anymore.

• 26:25Dax Shepard?

  You don't? Okay.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  I only play with friends, and I play with Emily. Emily and I play together. And with Emily, I've learned to sort of, because she's like.

• 26:34Dax Shepard?

  Not be an asshole.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  You cannot talk to me like that. Yeah. We are still married.

• 26:38Dax Shepard?

  Can you think of something you said to her at one point in the heat of a video game battle?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Whenever I go, "You gotta," she's like, "You can't say 'you gotta' to me anymore." Like, "Honey, you gotta." We're just playing this game right now, and she's very good, and we can hang, you know? But sometimes we play when we're high. Yeah. And she'll be like, "Where are you?" And I'm like, "If you hit up on the controller, you gotta know by now." And she's like, "Gotta stop saying gotta." I'm like, "Honey, we've been playing this game for three fucking months."

• 27:05Dax Shepard?

  You're exasperated.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do get that. Short fuse. It's just, you know, it's an intense situation. Sure, I get it. The stakes are high, I'm trying to save the fucking planet right now.

• 27:15Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  I need you to know how to look up the map.

• 27:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the game isn't called Get Groceries.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 27:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's called a duty.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's called a duty, man. We're saving the world from the Nazis right now. I can't teach you how to, like, unfold your map every five minutes.

• 27:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so in my dream world of the structure of this, like, I'd love to explore how we feel about it. And then I want to confront how other people feel as its own little piece.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 27:39Dax Shepard?

  But to continue with it a little bit, because this takes up a lot of my thought, and I love checking in with you.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  I love talking to you about this, because very few people want to get into it.

• 27:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Chandler one time told me, and I'll never forget it, I'd gotten in really good shape for this movie 20 years ago with Kristen called When in Rome. I played an underwear model and I'd gotten in good shape. And he came up to me, he's like, "Buff isn't funny, buddy." "Just remember..." And I was like, "Oh, God," right? And then we all know Carrot Top as a trope.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  I've heard that a lot. I disagree with that.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  But what is Carrot Top as a trope?

• 28:12Dax Shepard?

  He's a for-real bodybuilder.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Jacked.

• 28:15Dax Shepard?

  And people bring him up constantly, like, "Don't be a Carrot Topper." You just hear Carrot Top a lot.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. You hear Carrot Top a lot for many reasons. And I'm saying to the person, not anything about Carrot Top, "Do you think Carrot Top got less funny when he got buff, or did you just never think Carrot Top was funny?"

• 28:31Dax Shepard?

  There you go.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  What do you think of that, Mariah? How's that?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Okay, well, we can almost see his penis.

• 28:39Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, his slants are-

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Quite low.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  They could come up a little bit.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  They could come up a teeny-

• 28:43Speaker 02

  I don't need to know that the carpet matches the drape.

• 28:45Dax Shepard?

  The Mars cubis is on full display. But I understand he wanted to show off the arrows, but he got carried away.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Now, here's the thing.

• 28:53Dax Shepard?

  The arrows.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  First of all, very nice body. It's not from me, because, yes, it's too, it's the hugging the corner of the building thing again. But I think it's nice. Now, looking at this for the first time, I can understand what they mean when they say, "How can that guy be funny?" It's because whoever created this body, not God, like, who did this to themselves, is taking things very seriously. You have to take life very seriously to look like that.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  That's an interesting point. And that's the only good point I've heard about this exact thing. However, John Cena is very, very funny. And like, super jacked. And I think you can take certain parts of yourself seriously and not other parts. I truly don't think- I'm less funny because I'm buff. Because I think you have to always have a level of self-awareness. Like, he has to understand that that's a little bit ridiculous.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  A lot.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. When I put my pictures out, I understood that it was a little bit ridiculous. I understand it's a little bit ridiculous that I am jacked now. So I think you have to have that level of awareness. It's when you take yourself too seriously, I think that is the death of comedy.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  And I think the other thing that is the death of comedy is people wanting to be cool.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Comedians can be cool, but someone who wants to be cool and a comedian? I don't have any time for that.

• 30:19Dax Shepard?

  I will say, though, one aspect that is true is generally comedy works best when you are put upon.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Sure, low status.

• 30:28Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. So if Carrot Top's standing there like that, and then his boss is denigrating him, and he's a foot and a half shorter and is a mess, you kind of don't give a fuck. You're like, oh, if he wanted, he'd crush him.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  You know what? Did you watch Peacemaker? Not to go back to John Cena again.

• 30:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  He is the jackedest guy in there. He's like a superhero, but he is put upon the whole time.

• 30:46Dax Shepard?

  That's true, but it required people with superpowers to outstate him in a way. And he's so dumb, his stupidity is his Achilles.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that helps.

• 30:56Dax Shepard?

  So, yes, we could play big dumb idiots, like DC Cab. Which would be really fun to play.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I just don't think, I mean, you could, but you'd really have to suspend your disbelief. That's another, I mean, we know you're not a big dumb idiot.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Are you saying John Cena is a big dumb idiot?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  No, I love John Cena.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Steve's like...

• 31:14Speaker 01

  I love John Cena. Great guest. Go check out that episode.

• 31:18Dax Shepard?

  So talented.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  You played a lot of dumb idiots at the beginning of your career.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're very good at it. I mean, Idiocracy, that's such a great performance.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  Real dumb, yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  All of them, baby mama. You played a lot of them.

• 31:29Dax Shepard?

  I specialize in dummies, yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  But I bet now...

• 31:33Dax Shepard?

  It'd be less fun.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  No, no, I bet it would be harder because you now have shown yourself as your real self that is smart. And you have comedy specials that are smart. People know you as smart. It might be hard to be like... He's acting dumb.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  I think acting dumb is a difficult thing. And a few people who are smart can do it. Adam Sandler is one of them. He's obviously very smart. Did you guys see J. Kelly?

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Not yet.

• 31:59Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  He's so good in it.

• 32:00Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and not a dumb idiot at all. And if you know him, he's not a dumb idiot at all. But he's good at playing dumb idiots. Have you guys seen this movie called Twinless? It's a small movie, came out this year. This actor, director, writer, wrote it, stars in it. And Dylan O'Brien, do you guys know who Dylan O'Brien is? Dylan O'Brien is a phenomenal actor. If you look him up, you'd be like, oh, that guy. He's like, you know, a young guy, he's like 30. Very smart guy, always plays smart guys. He plays a dumb guy in this. And it's an incredible performance. And he's like subtly dumb. He's not comedy dumb. He's just dumb in ways, people that you know. And so I was talking to him about it. I was like, how were you able to do this? Because that is something I think about a lot. I'd love to play a dumb guy. It's a very tricky thing to be able to do. What was your trick to doing it?

• 32:43Dax Shepard?

  So I think the key is you have to think you're much smarter than everyone you're talking to.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 32:48Dax Shepard?

  You have to be condescending as a dumb guy. Frito's like, are you stupid? He thought everyone was stupid. And then he was a genius.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Right. It's the Dunning Kruger effect.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  It is.

• 33:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's funny. That's a good hack.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  The less you know, the more you think you know. It's like what they say to act drunk, you have to try and act sober.

• 33:08Dax Shepard?

  Which that one eludes me a little bit. I've had to play drunk and I hate it.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  I've played drunk a few times. And I think one of the keys I learned was, what kind of drunk is this? Is it angry drunk? Is it happy drunk? Is it stupid drunk?

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Sloppy.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  And then you lean into that. So if it's happy, you lean into the happy beyond like any kind of reasonable thing. You know who does a really good job? Evan Peters, is he a mayor of Easttown?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that show.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  There's a show where he plays drunk in one scene where he hits on his partner. And it's a really remarkable scene because he goes through every kind of drunk person. Which is like the drunk person who's down on themselves. The drunk person who has too much confidence. The drunk person who's too sad.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Emotional, yes.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yes, in all in one scene. You see him do all those different kinds of drunk. And it's a really, really great performance.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 34:05Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the pockets of your jeans before doing laundry? Classic oversight. That mystery clunking in the dryer? Yeah, that was your lip balm's final moments. And somehow, there's always one random receipt in there to dissolve into confetti. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Inuit TurboTax. You know that feeling when you drop your taxes off with somebody and then nothing? You're just sitting there wondering if they've even started?

• 34:50Dax Shepard?

  If there's a problem? If you're getting everything you're owed? It's like sending your car to the shop and never getting an update. That's what I appreciate about TurboTax Full Service. They've completely flipped that experience. You get matched with a dedicated tax expert who actually does your taxes for you. And here's the part that changes everything. You get real time updates on your expert's progress right in the app. You can literally see when they're working on your return. No more guessing, no more waiting by the phone. And if you have questions, you get unlimited help from your expert at no extra cost. Even nights and weekends during tax season. They're focused on getting you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve.

• 35:30Dax Shepard?

  Visit TurboTax.com to get matched with a TurboTax Full Service expert today. That's TurboTax.com, only available with TurboTax Full Service experts. Real time updates and iOS mobile app. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside? The dream.

• 35:57Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  I know, and thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz, and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really...

• 36:17Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp. For optimal sleep, it's very, very helpful.

• 36:28Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy, free shipping right to your door. And what they're happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models, so no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired and more. You've got to try it for yourself.

• 36:55Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace, and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private, it's been yours. But at some point, you're ready to put it out there.

• 37:37Dax Shepard?

  And that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from, I've been working on this to here it is, come find me. All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to Squarespace.com/dax for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 38:19Dax Shepard?

  I think I just attacked it with fear. Like, oh, God, I gotta do this fucking thing.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  That's the thing I've learned in my relationship with Emily is that all the stuff that I hide from her, like, I'm sad, I'm scared. Often, the anxiety of starting a new job, right? That was just mine. If I say it out loud, it makes it real. I say it to her, and it actually takes its power away. That's the biggest thing I've learned. One, I do it as a way of apology, like, hey, I'm in a weird place. I'm starting this job on Tuesday, and I'm a little bit nervous to walk.

• 38:46Dax Shepard?

  Pretty certain they fucked up by casting me. That's what I'm feeling today.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  All I have to do is get to rap before they find out. Every set I go to, I think of Eric Stoltz getting fired from Back to the Future. That dude shot six weeks. He shot six weeks, and then they fucking fired him. And he's collecting his boss as he's walking out. Everybody else has a job. The grip has a job. You're the only one who doesn't have a job.

• 39:11Dax Shepard?

  Of 200 people.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  You're the main guy, and you're the only one who doesn't have a job.

• 39:15Dax Shepard?

  No, that's rough. And good for him, the fact that he can come back and be in Pulp Fiction and be like, fucking so stellar.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now let's talk about the reaction.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  So what happened was, I talked about this in the specials, but do you know Michael Rosenbaum? Do you guys know him?

• 39:30Dax Shepard?

  I know him very, very, very well.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  So I did his podcast, and we talked about me.

• 39:34Dax Shepard?

  That's where it all came from, is Rosenbaum's?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it came from Rosenbaum's podcast. And he felt so bad about it. I was like, dude, honestly, this is a fucking gift. Thank you. I know how to end my special now, you know? I didn't know. So it all started from that.

• 39:48Dax Shepard?

  We're really good. Monica doesn't know. He was talking about the heartbreak of Eternals and it sending him to therapy.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  There was a big reaction backlash, and I understand them saying, the privilege of the bad reviews send you to therapy. And I talk about four, 15 minutes.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a lot. It's also, you know, men feel weird about going to therapy. There's a lot wrapped up in it. I'll give you all the gory details. I put those pictures out, December of 2019, while I was shooting Eternals. I was going into Christmas. We were gonna shoot till February, but I was like, I don't know, this might be the only time I look like this.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  I got two weeks off, and pastries in London are really fucking good, so I don't know if I'm ever gonna look like this. So I asked the trainer, and I was like, hey, get some baby oil, I'll get around. Razor, let's get these pictures going. Yeah. Because I don't know if I'm ever gonna look like this. Could be the last time of your entire life. Yeah, so I wanted these pictures. I did it. I put the pictures out. Initially, the response was really, really, really good. But then what happened was in 2020, the pandemic happened in March. My wife and I took it very, very seriously. We didn't leave the house. She's got an immune condition, so I was in a real bad place. Still's? Adult onset Still's disease, and now she's been diagnosed with another thing, which turns out is probably a combination of those two. A lot of things we're finding out, not to, this is a whole ADHD.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  We're finding out a lot about autoimmune diseases because of research into HIV. Because when you have HIV and your immune system starts fucking up. So now there's a lot of research into this, and there's a lot of therapies for this that are way better. So Emily's on a new medication that has changed our lives. So we're in all the time and on Christmas, we got this gingerbread house. We made it. It's just a picture of me sitting next to a gingerbread house that my wife took and we hadn't seen a human being in a long time. Now it's January 2021, and I think part of what happened is people were like, well, 2020 sucks, 2020 sucks, 2021 would be better. Now we're in 2021 and there's no vaccine in sight and we still can't leave the fucking house.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  So I think particularly January 2021, people were in a real fucking place and spraying it everywhere. I think I was one of the victims of this. I was watching The Crow with Brandon Lee, R I P. I'd taken an edible. I was high out of my mind, watching this movie that I used to love as a kid, watching it now, being like, do I still love it? And a friend of mine texted me, he's like, I'm so sorry about what's going on online. First of all, public service announcement to all friends. Never do that. No. Okay, so you posed this picture. I posted this picture a few weeks before. So my friend texted me, I was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, oh, oh, you don't know? So I go on Twitter and there are literally 10,000 responses and it's that picture of me and I'm just smiling with the thing, I'm high. And you could see the way I'm sitting, I just look like I have a big jawline.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  And it's just people making fun of my appearance. Literally 10,000 comments.

• 42:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's so hard.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Fucking destroyed me because as a kid growing up, I was very insecure about my looks. And I've done all this work to move away from that. And this made me feel like a little kid. I'm watching this movie, High Out of My Mind, and this is happening. And there were two full days of it sort of trending on Twitter. And it was like a big thing that people were just happy dunking on, the way I looked physically. GIFs and memes were going around and all this stuff. Again, in the grand scheme of things, probably not a huge thing, but I was very aware of it. And so I would tell Emily every day, I would check in with her. I was like, I'm not gonna go on Twitter. I'd be like, is it still happening? She's like, yeah, it's still happening. It's still happening? Yeah, it's still happening. And I remember it took like two full days of that. Because I think people were frustrated and needed to take it out. So that started with that one specific picture. And then it went on to pictures of me being buffed.

• 43:17Dax Shepard?

  It set off a cottage industry.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  It set off a cottage industry calling me grotesque and monstrous. I talk about all this in the special now. So that was the big backlash, January 2021. And I think like all these things, it has more to do with what they're going through than what I'm going through. But I really felt very singled out and attacked for that whole time. Again, people have much bigger problems than this, but for me, it was a pretty intense thing.

• 43:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  So that was like the backlash to my transformation that ended up happening a little bit over a year after the initial pictures came out.

• 43:48Dax Shepard?

  Interesting. And you were also dealing, I'm sure, with, had Eternals come out yet?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 43:53Dax Shepard?

  At least you have that positive thing in your mind.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 43:56Dax Shepard?

  That's basically your safety net during all this, right?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Eternals kept me going all through pandemic where I was like, wait for this fucking thing to come out, guys.

• 44:03Dax Shepard?

  And we'll talk about this body in three months.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  A hundred percent the entire time. I was like, wait till this comes out. And part of that, it's totally my fault. I'd put too much into this thing that I should not have put anything into. I had a great time making that movie.

• 44:18Dax Shepard?

  Meaning you put too many expectations.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Too many expectations. It's gonna change my career.

• 44:23Dax Shepard?

  Come on, we've had so many of the same moments. It's really wild. It's really wild thinking like you're from Pakistan, saw a guy get stabbed to death in the street when you were a kid. And I'm

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Shot.

• 44:31Dax Shepard?

  Shot, sorry. Seemingly there'd be no parallels, but I similarly had directed Chips.

• 44:38Dax Shepard?

  It tested through the roof. They commissioned a sequel before it came out to write it.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Dude, and it was you and uh,

• 44:45Dax Shepard?

  Paynia.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  He's so good.

• 44:47Dax Shepard?

  And I got hired immediately by Warner Brothers to take over Scooby Doo. I'm getting asked to come fix some scripts and maybe direct another thing. And I go, ah, the next 10 years of my life, I'm going to be writing and directing. I'm positive of that for like a year and a half, to the degree that's in my DNA that my identity is I'm a writer, director, and I'm going to do this for the next decade. And even greedily, I'm like, yeah, now get this on this and this on this. I've modeled out how much money I'm going to make in the next 10 years.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Exactly how I was.

• 45:15Dax Shepard?

  And so in one Friday, I find out the 10 year game plan is gone.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Did that movie not do well?

• 45:23Dax Shepard?

  No, like, well, certainly the sequel's not getting made. All these other things and meanings, they just shrivel up.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  What we both did was build up this thing.

• 45:31Dax Shepard?

  Cause we want safety.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  It is truly a devastating experience.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:35Dax Shepard?

  It's my fault. I'm taking full responsibility. No one should feel bad for me, but I did plan out my entire life based on something. And that really changed on a Friday afternoon, which I think a lot of people suffer setbacks, but they're pretty dramatic in our business.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  That is pretty dramatic because people's lives change overnight.

• 45:52Dax Shepard?

  You had signed on to do six Marvel movies.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I signed on to do six Marvel movies, a video game and a theme park.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 45:59Dax Shepard?

  The next decade of your life.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Like the next decade of my life, I'm going to be doing those movies. And then between, you know, one for you, one for me, I'll do like little indies.

• 46:05Dax Shepard?

  So people think when they hear that, they understand, we think like, oh boo hoo, you won't have that thing. But they're missing the pain and hurt is my safety just vanished. It's not about being famous or whatever. It's just like, I knew what I was going to do for 10 years. As if I were a physician that knew I could do my job for the next 10 years and I found out I can't.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Especially for us, it's tricky. One, we're getting to live our dreams and suddenly our dreams are getting bigger. And now I'm going to get to do this. It's self-serving, but it really is, you're like, the purpose of my life is to make stuff. And now I'm going to get to do it. How fucking exciting. And it happens with comedy guys, I think specifically where, you know, you hit and then you get a window, right? And sometimes that window closes and when that window closes, you don't know if it's opening up again. It happens to actors too. I mean, look at Brendan Fraser, so many years he did, and then he won a fucking Oscar.

• 46:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  But that's rare.

• 46:55Dax Shepard?

  But that's why we love it so much, because it is so brutal and you generally get shown the door and it never reopens.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. It is brutal. I mean, we've picked. A very difficult business to be in and a very vulnerable. You're naked, you know, if you write something, you direct something, you put it out there. You're like, here, this is the inside of my body. What will you do with it? And people are like, we don't like it. We will stab your spleen.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Well, it's also, people forget that actors are very fragile. It's actually what makes an actor good.

• 47:27Dax Shepard?

  Prerequisite.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  We're very sensitive.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  So sensitive and it's a part of what makes acting doable. But then you become famous and people don't give a fuck.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  No, they don't. And they think it's okay to tear you down and whatever, I understand.

• 47:41Dax Shepard?

  I think we're coming from the same place. I don't want one person to feel bad for me.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  You cannot feel bad for someone, but you also don't have to be a part of hurting them.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  Well, that's become part of it now is this dunk session that goes on where people get very excited. Again, boo hoo actors, but it is interesting. You're exactly right. Most actors are very sensitive. It took me years to understand that. And it wasn't until a few years ago that I was like, I was a sensitive 14 year old and now I'm a sensitive 40 whatever year old.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 48:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes. The only question mark I had when I heard the story is Emily was a practicing therapist for nine years or something.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Yeah, I would say for six years.

• 48:20Dax Shepard?

  She did in Chicago, she did in New York.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 48:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  North Carolina, then Chicago, then New York.

• 48:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, but you were married to a therapist.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the beginning.

• 48:27Dax Shepard?

  So the notion that it took you so long.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  It was after Eternals came out.

• 48:32Dax Shepard?

  And you're like, I'm never gonna work again.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  It wasn't even really that. It wasn't external circumstance. I understood it's my reaction to the external circumstance that's fucking me up. And I'm hurting myself by thinking the same thing over and over and over and over. I remember being on this flight, this might be too much information, but we're on a flight because we're doing like a world press tour for Eternals. Being on this flight in first class, laying in the bed.

• 48:55Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I've got wifi and I'm just laying there refreshing rotten tomatoes over and over. And I remember in that moment being like, this is not good for me.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Not healthy.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  This is horrible.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  By all accounts, you know, I'm in this awesome bed. I just ate a full three course meal on a fucking airplane flying to London.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:14Dax Shepard?

  You've made yourself miserable.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  This is the most miserable I've ever had.

• 49:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you took this chance to feel great and you made yourself miserable. What's great is even though you're not an addict, you've experienced what it's like when you're driving to the dealer's house. And you're about to relapse, which is like, that's a bad idea.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  I know exactly the feeling you're talking about before you've made the mistake where you know you're about.

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  But you're en route to do it.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Wow. What is that like? Can I ask you, what is that like? Cause I think I know that feeling.

• 49:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes. The frontal lobe is going, don't do this. It's going to end in four days, the wreckage. And then there's this body surge of endorphins, I guess, emanating from your reptilian brain. That's just like, it's giving you a little hit of what's going to come. And it's like this battle between this very visceral feeling and then this intellectual debate. And for me, just that surge of endorphins wins. You go, I'm going to be really disappointed in myself, but I also in 15 minutes, I'm not going to give a fuck about that disappointment.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  For a very short period of.

• 50:12Dax Shepard?

  No, it all, you know, yeah, it never works.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  That's where the shame comes in after.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  Cause you knew better.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're like, I knew this was going to happen and I still did it and I can't stop.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  That is so.

• 50:23Dax Shepard?

  Powerlessness.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  When you're driving to the dealers and you're like, I know I shouldn't do this, but you're going, were you ever able to turn around?

• 50:30Dax Shepard?

  I have accomplished that maybe three or four times. It's been more that I'm at the bar.

• 50:42Dax Shepard?

  I decide, I'm already there. I'm with friends.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  You're at the bar.

• 50:46Dax Shepard?

  I'm at the bar and I decide, you know what? There's no way I'm going to go through every Christmas without getting buzzed again. I make these really over the top declarations. Like, am I really going to live the rest of my life without getting buzzed at a bar at Christmas with the Christmas lights on? You know, it's like, this is some essential right of mine that's been taken. And then I've started to build the pace and I have been able to leave there. But if I've gotten in my car and I'm en route to the dealer, I'm going to get there.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  It's already decided.

• 51:15Dax Shepard?

  It's getting in the car.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  My god, that is really interesting.

• 51:18Dax Shepard?

  So like when you open up the phone,

• 51:20Speaker 02

  It's already too late.

• 51:22Dax Shepard?

  In the car on the way.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  But it's weird because it's a negative feeling. But it does feel like a certain kind of self harm that I had gotten addicted to. There was an addiction to feeling that hurt, that anger at myself and everyone around me. It is like a very living feeling, you know, it's a very alive feeling.

• 51:40Dax Shepard?

  Because now this is another fun thing that comes from AA, which is self aggrandizement and self pity are the exact same sides of two points.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Could not agree more.

• 51:50Dax Shepard?

  What feels like, oh, poor me is really indulgent in self aggrandizing. It's like, A, you're too important in the planet. No one gives a fuck about your movie. No one knows. You've elevated all this stuff. That was helpful for me to connect like, well, I would never be self aggrandizing. I'm too ashamed to do that. I'll hide that even if I think that. But for some reason, I'll explore self pity and victimhood. And once I connected, like, those are the same fucking thing, bro. I was able to largely curb the self pity cycle.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  After all that stuff and going through therapy, and I talk about this in the special. For me, the biggest project of the last few years has been trying to divorce my experience of making something from the result, from the reaction to it, right?

• 52:28Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Ideally, I walk off set and I never think about it again. Now it's fucking impossible because a year and a half from now, you gotta be doing interviews, talking about this thing, you know? My stand up special is not that because I really feel like I've made that, I fully control it, I live and die by it. With this, I'm living, dying by other people's mistakes as well.

• 52:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  And so I've been doing work to cut off from that, but and now this is gonna sound like me showing off. Couple of years ago, I got nominated for an Emmy and the amount of happy that it made me. I just happened to be with my parents. I had not expected it at all. I woke up in the morning at 11 in New Jersey at my parents' house in my pajamas, about to eat a delicious breakfast. And I have 100 text messages on my phone and I'm like, guys, I just got nominated for an Emmy. The amount that it made me happy, I was like, oh, I'm still stuck in there. This is still a trap. I mean, all day I was just replaying, this is so embarrassing, the moment when I saw, I'm replaying like scrolling, I'm replaying saying it to my parents and I understood. I'm still stuck in that same fucking thing.

• 53:23Dax Shepard?

  That is probably the hardest part of being healthy about this experience, in my opinion, is.

• 53:30Dax Shepard?

  Turning down the praise. You can't take the praise and turn down the negative. You either have to turn the whole thing off.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  And turning it off is impossible. I think you have to turn the volume down the best you can.

• 53:40Dax Shepard?

  I don't think Jonah would mind me saying this, but I was texting Jonah about us about to have Phil Stutz on, his therapist, and we were gonna have him on because I saw the doc and I was so moved by the doc.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw the doc.

• 53:52Dax Shepard?

  And I sent him this text going like, fuck dude, that moment where you have the image of yourself, your shadow, this little kid. And Stutz is like, he wants you to bring him along on this fun ride. And I was like, oh my God.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:05Dax Shepard?

  So I was texting with him and I was detecting this reservation from his side about this praise I was giving. And then he just said it and I thought it was so fucking cool. He's like, dude, I love this. Weirdly, this is as bad for me as you saying.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Very good self-awareness.

• 54:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And I'm like, dude, I strive to turn down praise, but I don't see it in the immediate future.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  It's so true. He's exactly right. It's the same thing. But you know what's hard in our business? Praise or bad reviews. It's not just how we deal with it. It does affect our careers. It really does have a practical impact. I make a movie, it makes money. Suddenly I get to do more movies. I make a movie, gets bad reviews, doesn't make money. Window starts closing, you know? So that's the hard thing for me to reconcile that. It's not just my reaction to it. My life is practically affected by the reaction.

• 54:59Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  You're forgetting that you're capable of making your own stuff. You're actually in a rare group that's capable of making their own stuff, that can do shows. You can get back to you in control and you should do that maybe more.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  100%. I was talking to Mike Birbiglia and I was like, you know, you and I kind of went in a way in completely opposite paths. He had his first movie that was a big success. And he was like, I'm just gonna keep doing this. And I went and started doing other people's stuff.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:26Dax Shepard?

  Right. But I will say too, I think the division in my head has to be, yes, one is a practical outcome of what will be my income and what will be my opportunity. And that's true. That needs to be observed. But the stuff that's hurting me and making me ruminate is, am I lovable if I'm a failure? Am I lovable if I'm not spectacular? Am I lovable if I'm not funny? Am I lovable if I'm in bad shape? Am I lovable? Am I worthy of your attention and being seen by you if I'm not spectacular? I was just talking to my mom this morning about this, like, that's my hurdle. I don't think I'm worth observing unless I'm spectacular.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  I think that's so true. I think the biggest thing we have to learn is that you inherently are worthy of love.

• 56:09Dax Shepard?

  It's so hard.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  It's so hard.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  It's everyone's hurdle.

• 56:13Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  It's not just you or you or actors. Everyone is doing everything they can to get the most love.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  You are worthy of love. You don't need to be spectacular.

• 56:24Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. I don't know. I'm not so certain.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  That's the whole sentence, man.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  You are worthy of love, period. I'm only now learning that I need to lean into the fear, you know? Like, I've all my life been running away from pain and running away from fear. And working out taught me I gotta chase the pain. And now I'm realizing I gotta chase the fear. The things that scare me are the things I need to do.

• 56:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now I want to theorize, because I had some takeaways. Again, I can't put too fine of a point on the fact that I really loved your special.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks, buddy.

• 56:53Dax Shepard?

  It's called Night Thoughts. And boy, did you describe three of my seven nights a week. I was asleep, Monica was hurt at nauseam. I think I have no anxiety. I don't have waking anxiety in general. I go to bed, 3 a.m., time to fucking think about something I don't care about once I'm awake.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 57:11Dax Shepard?

  Can I give one joke of yours away? Because I think Monica will love it. He wakes up and he writes down his stupid night thoughts. And one of them is, why do white people get all colors of eyes and hair? And everybody else only gets black eyes and black hair?

• 57:25Speaker 01

  That's a very fair thought.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Black people, Asian people, Hispanic people, we just get black eyes and black hair.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:31Dax Shepard?

  It is crazy when you point it out.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 57:33Dax Shepard?

  What is going on?

• 57:35Speaker 02

  I hate it.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  It's not fair.

• 57:36Dax Shepard?

  Just adding to the unfairness.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  It's insane.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Now I'm gonna be thinking about that.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  That joke has gotten a weird reaction a couple of times.

• 57:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, has?

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, like the Comedy Store, somebody got angry at me and they got kicked out.

• 57:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, was I saying?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Everybody needs to relax.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Did a white person get mad or?

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Sure it was a white person.

• 57:58Dax Shepard?

  What does Joyce say? The caucasity.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:01Dax Shepard?

  Like the audacity of Caucasians.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  I mean, wow.

• 58:05Dax Shepard?

  What was his objection?

• 58:06Speaker 02

  He was saying that's racist.

• 58:07Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  He was very drunk.

• 58:09Dax Shepard?

  He was playing in that scene, he was like, yeah, this is the racist version of drunk. This is the night.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 58:15Dax Shepard?

  This is the night when I'm drunk, I got racist.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Late in the night.

• 58:18Dax Shepard?

  And he probably regretted it.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  I don't know if he regretted it. Later, the security guy who kicked him out was like, he was trying to connect to me, but like, that guy's fucking racist, right?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  It was like, no, get the fuck out. The security guy was white.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  So glad you watched it, dude.

• 58:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I loved it. I loved it. When you get into the reaction, you kind of synthesize the reaction into five really common threads that people were barking at you online about. And I've given this a ton of thought because I have a different version of it unrelated to muscles, which is I've been with Kristen for 20 years and there have been hundreds of articles about why is she with this guy?

• 58:56Speaker 02

  What? Really?

• 58:57Dax Shepard?

  List of top 10 hot girls with ugly guys.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  That is so disgusting.

• 59:01Dax Shepard?

  I've been dealing with that less now since the podcast, but for the first 12, 13 years we were together, there were hundreds of these lists of ugly guys with hot girls and I'm always on it.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  It's the worst.

• 59:12Dax Shepard?

  And my reaction was like, A, I'm so hurt and insecure when you say that. Then I'm defensive and arrogant. I'm like, go meet my other girlfriends. They've all been hot. Fuck you, right? There's this defensiveness.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 59:25Dax Shepard?

  And then when I calm down, I really get into it. I'm like, you know what's so interesting? I think I know what's going on. And it's just beat into us in elementary school and in school, which is like, there's strata. You're born into them. Someone shan't migrate north or south. It's disruptive to this whole system that we have been formatted in. And so I thought, because again, primarily, girls aren't saying Kristen's with this ugly guy. Guys are saying Kristen's with this ugly guy.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  They're threatened.

• 59:55Dax Shepard?

  And I think, shouldn't that be encouraging? Even if that's your conclusion, like this four got this 10. Isn't that life affirming and positive? Like, doesn't that say you could achieve anything? I thought it would be comforting to dudes like me that are normal.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I think it's the opposite. And I think that was some of the reaction to me getting buffed.

• 1:00:13Dax Shepard?

  Thank you, because I mapped on that. I get the muscles thing less than you do. I certainly see in the comments dudes going so fucking roided out. Always if I'm with Kristen in a photo, then the guys come out hard. This roided out motherfucker. For the record, I'm not on steroids, unless you count testosterone as a steroid, which I guess maybe technically is. I am on testosterone. Yeah, yeah, but I'm not on the other great ones I'd love to be on.

• 1:00:38Dax Shepard?

  I would be on all of them. I didn't get it the same way you did. And I think it's a little bit because I'm 6'2". And then maybe white, like you guys were talking about that.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  I do think that's part of it for me is obviously in Bollywood, guys are super jacked and it's fine. But here, it's like you're a nerd or you're like a. Yeah.

• 1:00:53Dax Shepard?

  What was that fucking incredible movie that took over Netflix? I loved Triple R. Those guys are fucking beefcakes.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  When I went to my trainer, I was like, I want to look like this guy.

• 1:01:03Dax Shepard?

  From Triple R?

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  No, this was a guy who's a big star still. His name is Rithik Roshan. He's super jacked and he's a great actor. He's got an extra thumb. That's like a thing a lot of Indian people have.

• 1:01:12Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Really? Yeah, I don't mean like 40%, but it's like.

• 1:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Septodactylia? Is that what it's called? I think so.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  It's a little like extra useless thumb.

• 1:01:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Three thumbs up, yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  When he likes a movie, he can really communicate it.

• 1:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so really quick. Now, we must acknowledge that we're guilty of the thing that hurts us, which is you and I know, this guy's a huge star. He's jacked. Yeah, he's got an extra thumb. I don't mind saying that. This guy's an idol.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  He's gorgeous too, yeah.

• 1:01:40Dax Shepard?

  But that guy, should he ever come across this podcast, which he won't, he'll be hurt that we're talking about his third thumb? Or is it something he's super proud of?

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:01:49Dax Shepard?

  Because he could give a shocker. He could go, whatever a new shocker is.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:56Dax Shepard?

  Two in the pink.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  He gets four in the stink.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  No, I know. I knew this was, he didn't mean the shocker.

• 1:02:03Dax Shepard?

  I did, I did. I just mispronounced it, yeah. Yeah, the shocker.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  What's the other?

• 1:02:08Dax Shepard?

  The shaka?

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I thought you were also.

• 1:02:10Dax Shepard?

  No, I mean, yeah, two in the pink, one in the stink, and then four thumbs on the clitoris.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he probably wouldn't like this. Yeah, my guess is he wouldn't like this. Or maybe he would.

• 1:02:19Dax Shepard?

  So anyways, often when I'm feeling really sad and self pitying and hurt, I have to recognize I too do it.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  Do what?

• 1:02:27Dax Shepard?

  I talk about people in a way that I don't think would hurt their feelings because they're so high status, I don't think they would care.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:02:34Dax Shepard?

  We're wrong.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Genuinely have been trying to be better about it. Like if someone makes fun of, you know, oh, look at how much work this person got. I'm like, first of all, it's their fucking decision. And what upsets me about what you said about you and Kristen together is, these parasocial things where people think they know someone's relationship or how someone actually feels about someone, I think it's so unhealthy. You don't know me. You don't know my life. People will be like, couple goals or whatever. I'm like, you don't know what our life is. You don't know what my relationship with my wife is. You have no fucking idea. So people sort of build us up sometimes to be like, oh, this is, you know.

• 1:03:07Dax Shepard?

  You're a dreamy couple. I totally get couples goals.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  People will say, like, if they ever break up, I'll stop believing in love. I'm like, don't fucking do that. I am not anything. We are truly nothing to you. This should not be any kind of standard or anything. I mean, what they don't see is how much work we're doing behind this thing, you know? I am absolutely in love with enemy, with Emily, my favorite.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  You don't even know her name.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  My friend and me.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  What they don't know is, it's not always easy. It's very fulfilling and satisfying, but we gotta keep working on it.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Two people coming together in any capacity, how is it happening?

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  I got friends who are in throuples now. I'm like, what are you doing? Do you guys know people who are in like?

• 1:03:50Dax Shepard?

  We watch couples therapy. And every time I watch it and there's a throuple or something, I'm like, guys, it's just too hard for two people.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  Three, you're making it exponentially more.

• 1:03:58Dax Shepard?

  It is exponential. Yeah, it's like going from one kid to two.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Because it's each pairing and then all three of you together. We only got one way. This is like one way, two way, three ways, four ways.

• 1:04:08Dax Shepard?

  Well, add also Kristen and I share an identity if we are out at a dinner party. We're literally this one identity that plays off each other and has stories. It's like, what is this shared identity of this trouble when they come to your dinner party?

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. How could you not know? Like if you're in a throuple, be like, you know what? I think this person loves that person a bit more than they love me. And that's gotta be true, right? I mean, how is it possible that everyone loves everyone equally?

• 1:04:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, I believe that's possible because I have two kids.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  That's different.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  It is different. You made them.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you made them.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  Now, if you're in a throuple with your kid, I'm gonna move on.

• 1:04:44Dax Shepard?

  No, let's talk about a throuple with my children.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  I didn't mean you. I meant like.

• 1:04:50Dax Shepard?

  When my children end up in a throuple.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  One of them is gonna feel very left out.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Even that, you said the other day, something like, I took my best girl to a concert. One of the kids. And I said, you can't say that. And he said, I have two best girls. And I said, nope, no one wants to hear that. So yes, I do think in the throuples, the love changes. It's like, we're close right now. Now we're close right now. But then the pain on the other person who's on the outside in that moment and trying to fight their way, that's too much.

• 1:05:22Dax Shepard?

  I can speak to a three-way. I've been in some three-ways in my youth.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  That feels easier to navigate in a relationship. And how were those?

• 1:05:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, what I can own up to.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Could not wait to bring it up.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:05:33Dax Shepard?

  What I can own up to, and that is inevitably, I felt like, no, I wish it was just me and this person.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Oh, really? Even in that, you got a best girl?

• 1:05:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Oh, there are best girls everywhere.

• 1:05:44Dax Shepard?

  It's like, it's great. It's fun. It's exciting initially. And then just like, oh, I like how that person kisses more.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  Could you take a break?

• 1:05:51Dax Shepard?

  I have two options in front of me. I enjoy kissing this one more.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Also, they all have their own feelings about that as well.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  So they're like, I like this person.

• 1:06:02Dax Shepard?

  Both the girls are probably like, I hope this dude leaves.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Right, there's so much going on. It just seems very complex.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  It's all complex. Being a person is so complicated.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, being a person is hard.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  You know when in True Detective in first season when Matthew McConaughey says consciousness was a mistake? I genuinely truly believe that. I think it was a big fucking mistake.

• 1:06:20Dax Shepard?

  A bug?

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  It is a bug. I really think. You think anybody intended all of this? This was not the endgame?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  This is a big mistake.

• 1:06:29Dax Shepard?

  The similarities is they just want an end in this thing, because also Monica's heard me say it. I fucking hate an encore. It drives me... Kamala drives me insane.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Oh my god, I love that. Who did you go see with your best girl? Sabrina Carpenter?

• 1:06:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Did you go?

• 1:06:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went.

• 1:06:44Dax Shepard?

  What day? I went on that, I think the first day on a Sunday.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  We went Monday.

• 1:06:48Dax Shepard?

  You went Monday?

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Did you enjoy it?

• 1:06:49Dax Shepard?

  Did you get arrested for being too hot? Me neither.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  What an incredible show.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  She's so cool.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  She's so great, because she's really funny and she like understands all that. Like, so many take themselves too seriously and she doesn't. Well, we saw, this is kind of a sad story, I guess, but we saw Prince at the Forum. He did like a whole month and tickets were 20 bucks no matter what. Parking was 40 bucks. He did eight fucking encore.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:07:15Dax Shepard?

  Eight?

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  And we were like, I gotta get home.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  You left?

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  And then he died.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah!

• 1:07:21Dax Shepard?

  Good, good for you. That's abusive.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Do you think maybe like you killed him?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  By leaving early?

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Cosmically, kind of?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was like, I gotta try more fentanyl. Or whatever it was, Purple Fall was this. Let's not say that. He did this fucking thing, speaking of confidence in performing. He did not sing for the first 45 minutes. He strutted around on stage as the band played. He'd go up to the mic, start to sing, and then walk away. I am not exaggerating. 45 minutes and he starts singing. And then like an hour and he started playing Purple Rain and he was like, nah, y'all not ready. And he stopped playing Purple Rain.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  He sang a bunch of other songs.

• 1:08:00Dax Shepard?

  It's like you going to set next week with no preparation.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Dax Shepard?

  He was trying something.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  You know, the cameras on me, I'm like, I'm not ready.

• 1:08:08Dax Shepard?

  No. Well, Kamau, I really loved it. I hope everyone checks it out. The material is great. You perform it well, but what is so satisfying for me is a hard compliment to take. You're such a genuinely beautiful person. It's like very on display. No, Kamau.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Oh, you're so sweet.

• 1:08:25Dax Shepard?

  The whole time I'm watching, I just have the warmest, just loving feelings toward you. You're such a sweet dude.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  I know. That's why I'm like, who could be mean to you?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:34Dax Shepard?

  That was the last thing I wanted to say on that.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  Some of these people aren't even real. You have to remember that.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  I know. It's troll farms in Russia who decided, let's pick up this guy.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  No one who knows you or has been around you could ever be mean.

• 1:08:45Dax Shepard?

  We both have this thing. We want muscles. We want this and that. And I'm blown away with it and I'm horny for the muscles as I'm watching it. But it is the essence that's just Kamau that I'm so attracted to. It is so beautiful and thoughtful and smart and conscious.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  With or without muscles.

• 1:09:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. The quintessential ingredient is still you.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's very sweet. That's like the nicest compliment.

• 1:09:11Dax Shepard?

  Sincerely, though.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm very proud of it because I didn't do stand up for so long. And when I started up again, I was like, all right, I'm going to give myself a year and a half to write an hour, perform it, record it, and then I'm going to take a break and see when I come back to it, you know? So I really feel like at this point in my life, at this age, this is the thing I want to say that's completely my own. And I feel like I did it to the best of my ability in this moment. Who knows what happens next, but I'm proud of that.

• 1:09:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Kamau, I love you. It's been too long since you were here. I hope you'll come back. Night Thoughts, December 19th on Hulu. It's fantastic.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Thanks for coming.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  Thanks, buddy. Love you guys.

• 1:09:51Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:09:57Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Scottsdale, Arizona. Monica, with summer ending or heading into fall, I've been researching a nice, quick getaway location and I keep coming back to Scottsdale, Arizona.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Ooh, Scottsdale's good. What's drawing you to it?

• 1:10:10Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I have this wonderful memory of going there as a kid when I'd go see my stepdad when he was working out there. The weather is perfect in fall, warm, sunny, no humidity. And you can really do whatever you want with your time there. I want to do a sunrise hike through the Sonoran Desert, be surrounded by Saguaro, and then at the same afternoon, just completely melt into a spa treatment at one of their luxury resorts.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds amazing. I want to do that. Also, I was there visiting my brother once and I loved Old Town Scottsdale. It's so walkable. They have galleries and cute little restaurants and shops. The food scene alone is worth the trip.

• 1:10:49Dax Shepard?

  What I keep reading is that it's luxurious, but not stuffy. There's no pressure to do it a certain way. You can explore public art, check out the architecture, go off roading in the desert, or just sit and watch a sunset.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  It really is the perfect fall reset.

• 1:11:03Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about all Scottsdale has to offer at unwindinscottsdale.com. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends, docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there, inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you.

• 1:11:47Dax Shepard?

  You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed, at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go. From the makers of Grammarly, find out more at superhuman.com.

• 1:12:14Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach.

• 1:12:57Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEF. We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or Ferglipron. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children. Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had major lary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundo with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems.

• 1:14:19Speaker 04

  Once-daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8mg, 2.5mg, 5.5mg, 9mg, 14.5mg, and 17.2mg tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 1:14:40Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Kumail.

• 1:14:49Dax Shepard?

  Kumail Nanjiani.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  We just like him so much.

• 1:14:53Dax Shepard?

  We do. He's a sweet boy.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  He's so, he's a good boy.

• 1:14:59Dax Shepard?

  He is. Who was reminding me of him recently?

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Me?

• 1:15:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh, this is interesting. I guess it borders on racist, but he has a similar sweet core that I think Karin Sony has.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:15:14Dax Shepard?

  And I don't know if somehow it's related, but it's a very specific sweetness.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, Karin is very sweet.

• 1:15:22Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think it's racist because you don't think I have it.

• 1:15:27Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:28Dax Shepard?

  No, you have other great qualities.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  No, I don't even, I mean, I think it's a great quality. I love seeing it, but I don't like wish I had it.

• 1:15:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, there's so much. There's a lot of overlap between Karin, obviously, and Kumail in that they're both growing up, one in Pakistan, one in India, but both little guys that are really quite afraid of their environment.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:50Dax Shepard?

  Karin hiding, you know, his sexuality and being terrified and then Kumail seeing a guy get shot, you know?

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Dax Shepard?

  And then leaving there. I don't know. I don't know. There's some, there's some connective tissue.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Um, speaking of that, speaking of.

• 1:16:08Dax Shepard?

  Connective tissue?

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  Drama.

• 1:16:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh, twama.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Twama.

• 1:16:11Dax Shepard?

  I don't mean it correctly, but twama.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  I can't believe I said that so wrong. When I was home in Georgia.

• 1:16:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  I had a great time and it was very, it was, but it was funny because I, sometimes I wonder, because I've been here a while, been here in LA.

• 1:16:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  That like I've made some stuff up in my head.

• 1:16:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure. Yes.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  I relate.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm like. Am I being like hyperbolic about some of this stuff or the way I remember it? Or was there racism or like, maybe not, actually? I don't know, you know, I start like questioning it, questioning it. And I think it's good to question it. Like, we have these ideas that are built and like, maybe that's wrong. And of course, it's always gonna be a little wrong. Cause your memories shift and stuff and morph over time. There's Revisionist History, great podcast.

• 1:17:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, incredible.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  But I was kind of, this is so bad to say. I was kind of relieved. There was a couple moments where I was sort of affirmed that those things.

• 1:17:19Dax Shepard?

  Weren't imagined?

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Were not imagined, yes. And I was talking to someone specifically who I'm very close to, who was talking about, I have to be careful here, who was talking about their father-in-law. And I grew up with this person. This person knows me very well.

• 1:17:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  And she, my friend, was telling me just like how bad, how racist it's gotten in that house with this person, father-in-law. And I was like, and I said, I said, that's so weird. Cause like, he knows me.

• 1:18:01Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  And she's like, yeah, well, you're an exception, cause you're rich and famous. And I was like, oh my God. And then, and then there's another person in that person's life who's also Indian. And I said, well, what about this person? And she was like, he's kind of an exception too, just cause he's been around. But there's still some weirdness. And I was like, wow. And when she said it, it was a light bulb for me. Cause I was like, yes, that, me being an exception is like what's driven my entire life.

• 1:18:39Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  I think it's part of what has driven me to be, to work so hard. It's like across the board. It's just like, I have to be an exception.

• 1:18:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Across the board. And I think that's then just bled into all areas of my life. Work and.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Anything, relationships.

• 1:19:00Dax Shepard?

  I think that's an incredibly sound theory, but I would also suggest it's like it's some percentage of the pie because your parents are gangsters, your genetics are awesome. You were gonna be a go getter wherever you grew up as well. And then, you know, I think if I were you, I would certainly feel this way because you can't afford to make room for the nuance, but I'd imagine you think like racist is one thing, right? It's just like this hatred of all people or whatever. But when we're watching that wonderful documentary and those bozo white nationalists were sitting with this Indian woman and they're like, well, not you. And I think there's mass confusion within their own mind.

• 1:19:43Dax Shepard?

  I think they have like, they have a cartoonish archetype in their mind that they hate.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Dax Shepard?

  Right? Whatever the characteristics they've assigned to this group that they hate.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:54Dax Shepard?

  And then yet weirdly, I think they're open to when they meet someone of that group that's not displaying these, you know, these stereotypical archetype things they think they hate, then they go like, oh, well, I don't hate this one. So I think like it is even racism is as complicated and nuanced and probably individual as every other opinion, like full of contradictions.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that's right. I just think that's the problem. Like if they, the, the hope would be that if they met or knew someone of that race.

• 1:20:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  That that would then shatter the racism.

• 1:20:34Dax Shepard?

  The whole, right.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  The paradigm.

• 1:20:36Dax Shepard?

  But I think they go, oh, this is an exception.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  This is an exception.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  And then, but they're open to meeting three more exceptions that day.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  I know, but who cares? It's the overall, you know, I know what you mean.

• 1:20:46Dax Shepard?

  I mean, like it's a spectrum probably and Hitler's on one side, which is like Jews are genetically inferior. They all suck no matter what I'm witnessing them do spectacular, right? Like you can't, they can't, you can't penetrate his level on that. And then I'm, I just think it's a crazy spectrum. And of course, how is anyone, the other group to know where this person's at? Like how irrational are they in this opinion?

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Well, it, it is definitely a huge spectrum and people make exceptions all the time, but I guess when I'm, what has happened to me over my life is I used to. Be very, um, you know, I needed to be that exception for survival, but I like really, I didn't care. I didn't care about the other Indian people. As long as I got through, I was fine.

• 1:21:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  And I, and now I don't feel that. I, I'm like, fuck that. Like, you take all of us? Or you can't just, I'm not an exception.

• 1:21:47Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  I'm like everybody else.

• 1:21:50Dax Shepard?

  All a cart.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, so it's, it's changed, I think, for me over, as I have grown. It's interesting.

• 1:22:00Dax Shepard?

  There's so many like little minute layers to all of it, you know, it's like, I may learn that Israelis on the personality tests are the highest disagree, agree, disagreeability of all the ethnicities, right? Like this is a confirmed thing. We've had experts on talking about. And then I might meet an Israeli that doesn't seem that disagreeable.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Dax Shepard?

  And I, and then I have to make room for like, oh, right, sure. In general, they over index in this, but again, there's so much variety within this thing. I also have to go like, yeah, I can't just assume they're all disagreeable. Cause

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Right. Cause there's, yeah, because

• 1:22:36Dax Shepard?

  It's like I'm doing it, I'm sure in ways that aren't like overtly racist or hostile or with any sense of superiority, just like what I think I know about different groups.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:46Dax Shepard?

  And then you have to constantly be making room for the individual.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  Well, racism is not about making, I mean, there, I guess making generalizations is a part of it, but it's the making generalizations that lead to a feeling of superiority or a feeling of hatred.

• 1:23:02Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  So if you don't have those other pieces, it's, you know, less of, it's not as much of an issue unless you're making all these assumptions about people that aren't true. But for the most part,

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the issue, right? It's like, oh, they're all like this. And so that's gross or bad or.

• 1:23:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I can give a personal example on my own. There are, I grew up around a couple of different cultures. Some of these cultures definitely, there was an increased machismo and what I thought was total disrespect for females. And I went, that's wrong. Not I'm better. So even within like superiority, it's such a broad word. It's like, I definitely felt like what I was doing was right and what they were doing was wrong. Per my morals and ethics.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Dax Shepard?

  But I at no point was like, I'm better than, or I'm superior. Or if this person hadn't grown up in my household, they wouldn't be the same. It's just like, oh, I know this group of people. They're, they're pretty fucking hyper masculine and aggressive and I'm not for that.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:07Dax Shepard?

  And yeah, it's really complicated. But I love what you were exploring at the beginning because my brother and I had like a really, really profound. Well, first of all, we had this beautiful trip together right before Christmas. We went to New York together and I have had the great luxury of going to New York a ton of times and getting to live in different areas of the city when I'm working. And there's a whole part of New York I love that I don't think the tourist really knows. And I very much wanted my brother to see that side of it.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Dax Shepard?

  Cause he even said like, why do you love New York so much? For him, it was, it's Times Square in Central Park. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's, that's a great.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  Those are great.

• 1:24:40Dax Shepard?

  But probably not worth going to multiple times.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:43Dax Shepard?

  So we went and we were on this long, we walked everywhere, we walked like 17 miles a day. And I think we were walking across the Brooklyn Bridge and we were chatting and, and I said, um, my brother's a great, great believer, as am I, in that, like, he's a vision board person.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:24:59Dax Shepard?

  And he imagines what he wants and he puts out into the, the world, this, these positive outcomes he wants. And it's very effective for him.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Manifesting, I love it.

• 1:25:07Dax Shepard?

  And he manifests it, right?

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  And he thinks positive thoughts and he knows positivity, begets positivity. And, and, and, and we're talking about confirmation bias. Like, yeah, if you think everything's upward trending, you see the proof of the upward trending and you ignore the downward trend. And then you don't get bogged down in that.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:21Dax Shepard?

  And I said to him, I said, you know what feels really unfair for me as I write this memoir is any one of us have had every experience in childhood. I can really, I have the data or the plot points to create any story I wanted.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  Sure, sure.

• 1:25:40Dax Shepard?

  Because all I gotta do is string together the 15 times this thing happened and I decide that was my childhood. And I said, Dave, I said, you know, I really been, I want to get this out of my system, the memoir. And the goal is when the memoir is done, I'm gonna start looking back on my history a lot differently than I have been. Which is, I have to acknowledge, yeah, these things happened to you and I, but if we really added it up, that's probably was 0.03% of our experience on life. They're so hyper memorable.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:11Dax Shepard?

  Because they were so dramatic and stuff, but in reality, we're looking at 99% of the time, we had a damn good sitch. And I said, and I want to start constructing a different story about my back. I said, I think the same thing is true about looking forward. I think we, I need to apply it looking backwards. Now that I said it out loud, I like feel a commitment to like.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:26:34Dax Shepard?

  I mean, really, you could, you could, you know, you could look at the 12 situations where someone discarded you and you could look at the 12 that they showed compassion to you because you were other. I bet you also received a lot of, I would hope, some teachers that recognize this girl's other and

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 1:26:50Dax Shepard?

  And I want to make her feel inclusive, you know, like I bet there was acts of generosity that, you know, they, those don't hurt in, in, in sticking your memory, but I bet they were there.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  For whatever reason, I am very aware of the cheerleaders and angels in my story. Those are the main characters for sure. I am, I have no questions about that. They're every, like, it's startling. I feel like so lucky in that.

• 1:27:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Me too.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, knowing gets.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  To have a life like this without it, you just don't. You have to have a lot of people who believe in you. You have to have a lot of support and luck and not just from your family, from just like random people.

• 1:27:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, it's, yeah, when we, um, when I was home, I saw my old cheerleading coach, which was so fun. And, um, she, she, we were talking and I was like, God, how did, how did you do it? Like, how did you make all of us 15 year olds care so much about this thing? It became, it was life or death. It was like, if we didn't win, we were gonna die.

• 1:28:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You were at the Olympics in your life.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Yes, we were, we were all working together so hard, a huge team of people.

• 1:28:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  And everyone was on the same page. And like, she said, she said, I don't know. She was like, I, I don't, I think about that all the time, too. You guys were so, like, the dedic- she, she too was sort of blown away by that. And she's been still, she's still, she runs a gym, she's, um, so successful in what she does, but she looks back on that too. And so there is just some like, kind of some weird luck you get. Like, I landed in that environment where you had to show up. There was no other option but to be your best. And, uh, yeah, there's just so many lucky parts.

• 1:28:53Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna love Angela Duckworth's new book. I'm reading like a pre copy of it.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 1:28:59Dax Shepard?

  It's all about the power of situation. She hinted at it the last time she was here. She's like, grit was, grit was all about individual willpower, determination, dedication, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Dax Shepard?

  And I think you might have remembered, she had a graduate student of hers that was kind of like, this is a little bit of bullshit.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:14Dax Shepard?

  Remember, he kind of like called her out and God bless her, she was like, open enough to hear him out and start exploring. And so, yeah, like the last decade of, of her life post grit has been really opening itself up to the enormous impact of environment.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I like that.

• 1:29:29Dax Shepard?

  Everything around you. And she points out, like, everything around you is objective. And then everything inside you is completely subjective.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah.

• 1:29:37Dax Shepard?

  And yeah, that thing you experienced on the team, you were a product of an environment.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Dax Shepard?

  Where each of you challenged each other and rose. And she said, you know, yes, you can get born into terrible situations. Yes, you can have terrible parents, but you always have some situational agency. And I think if you recognize the power of a situation, you can put yourself in different situations. You'll respond accordingly.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:07Dax Shepard?

  I love it. I'm loving it so much.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  I'm so, we should have her on to talk about it.

• 1:30:11Dax Shepard?

  We must, we must, yeah.

• 1:30:11Speaker 01

  Okay, exciting. Okay, I'm pivoting because I have a really important question.

• 1:30:16Dax Shepard?

  I can't wait to answer it.

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  So what would you do if your bar of soap that you wash your hands with, okay, it's hand soap, but it's a bar.

• 1:30:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  It flies out. Okay, yeah.

• 1:30:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  And you like it. You like that soap a lot.

• 1:30:33Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, volcanic ash?

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  No, that's from my body.

• 1:30:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  You're washing your hands and it flies out slippery.

• 1:30:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  And lands directly into the toilet.

• 1:30:46Dax Shepard?

  No problem.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:30:47Dax Shepard?

  Not a problem. Wait, is there feces in the toilet?

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  No, but.

• 1:30:51Dax Shepard?

  Yawn? A little bit of yawn?

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  No, but it was just flushed.

• 1:30:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Like seconds before.

• 1:30:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, no one is gonna like this, but this is a fact.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:31:02Dax Shepard?

  Your kitchen sink is a thousand times more dangerous than your toilet bowl. There is way more harmful, potential harmful bacteria on your, in your sink. So if you dropped your hand soap in the sink, you wouldn't think anything of it. You'd rinse it off and wash it a little bit.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's, it is interesting. I wash my soap sometimes, which feels insane.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  I guess that's like, to what extent is it self-cleaning? And to what extent is it not? Where does the self-cleaning line get drawn?

• 1:31:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's the demarcation.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Dax Shepard?

  But that wouldn't, that would be fine for me.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  You'd be fine.

• 1:31:36Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:31:37Dax Shepard?

  It's just water in there. And there's a little bit of your yawn.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  Residue.

• 1:31:42Dax Shepard?

  Which is mostly antiseptic.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Residue, poo poo residue.

• 1:31:47Dax Shepard?

  Uh.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  Doody.

• 1:31:48Dax Shepard?

  No, um, stool balls.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Stool balls.

• 1:31:52Dax Shepard?

  This is Easter egg for Armchair Anonymous coming up.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  So this happened to me, obviously.

• 1:31:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What did you do? I already know what you did.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  What do you think I did?

• 1:32:01Dax Shepard?

  You, you used it.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  I didn't. I.

• 1:32:04Dax Shepard?

  I don't even know you.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  I know, like, I was staring at this, so, you know, I have round, I have this soap, it's round, it's very cool. It looks like a stool ball, but it's white.

• 1:32:14Dax Shepard?

  Begging to be slipped out of your hand, for crying out loud.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  I know. But I've used it enough that it's like, now it's just like a dome, like, the bottom's flat.

• 1:32:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  And it's like, it's halved, cut in half. And, um.

• 1:32:25Dax Shepard?

  Semi hemisphere.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. You know, it's like, slow motion, I saw it twirling in the air, and then plop, right in the middle of the toilet. And I, I looked at it for a while, because I was like, for a second, and, you know, this is kind of like when I thought the rat got in the kettle. Like, sometimes my brain goes a little haywire.

• 1:32:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  I was like, should I just flush it?

• 1:32:47Dax Shepard?

  Fuck up your hole.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, I was like, no, I'm not, I can't, I can't flush it, that's bad for the toilet, it'll clog. But I was like, but I don't want to put my hand in there. For some, I like, really did not want to put my hand in.

• 1:33:01Dax Shepard?

  This feels off-brand for you, you'll get down.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  I know, remember that one time?

• 1:33:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what'd you do?

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  Have I even, have I talked about it on here? I was, I'm sure I did. When I first started my seizure medication.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  And I had my morning BM.

• 1:33:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  It was like, the first day, and I looked, and it was in there.

• 1:33:28Dax Shepard?

  The medicine was.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  The.

• 1:33:30Dax Shepard?

  The, the capsule.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  The whole thing?

• 1:33:32Dax Shepard?

  The entire thing, yeah.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's what I needed to see, I had to see.

• 1:33:36Dax Shepard?

  That's right, that's right, I do remember. Yeah! You had to for your health.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  I had to.

• 1:33:41Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  But this, for some, and it was, it was flushed, but it was recently flushed.

• 1:33:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  I was like, I don't want to put my hand in there. And then I did.

• 1:33:53Dax Shepard?

  I feel like I'd just be able to, I'd get rid of the top layer of the soap, and be done afresh.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, I, that's what my thought was, is like, should I just rinse it off? It's soap, it's self-cleaning, I just get this top layer off, but I was like, I don't believe in self-cleaning anymore, all of a sudden, and I threw it in the garbage.

• 1:34:08Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, Miss, um. My curiosity is killing me. How did you retrieve it? Tongs from?

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  No, I put my hand in.

• 1:34:16Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:34:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I thought you were saying you didn't want it.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  I didn't. I didn't want to, but I was like, I guess I have to. And I put my hand in and I grabbed it. And I just threw it straight in the garbage and then I had to get another soap to clean my arm and my hands.

• 1:34:32Dax Shepard?

  There's the whole thing.

• 1:34:35Speaker 01

  It's kind of a Jonathan Haidt, like moral.

• 1:34:39Dax Shepard?

  Moral dilemma.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  Moral dumbfounding dilemma. Cause like, yeah, it's, it's like technically and morally fine.

• 1:34:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  But it felt really wrong.

• 1:34:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  So I had to throw it away.

• 1:34:54Dax Shepard?

  That makes me think of, I took Delta to breakfast on Sunday. I'm trying to think what topic brought up morals and ethics.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  It was really fun to start exploring that with her.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  What is she? I mean, she's so ethical, I think.

• 1:35:14Dax Shepard?

  I do too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of innately.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:17Dax Shepard?

  Quite ethical.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  She is.

• 1:35:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't know where she got it.

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:35:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm trying to think what topic came up and I was just like, yeah, you know, you, you get to pick what you think is moral and immoral. And I think she was asking like a right or wrong question, you know? And we got to explore it. Anyways, I just, it's so fun to be having deeper and deeper conversations with the kids as they get older.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:35:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. She was reading, she has a graphic novel she got for Christmas. You might've seen this. This was at my birthday dinner.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Wait, that's the, oh, I thought that was Kristen's.

• 1:35:57Dax Shepard?

  No. So I don't even know who got it for.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Carly.

• 1:36:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my sister.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yes. That makes so much more sense.

• 1:36:05Dax Shepard?

  Tell me, you were flummoxed?

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Yes, because Kristen pulls out this book and, and I, maybe I jumped in the conversation late because she said Carly got this. It's about this. And I thought it was for Kristen. And I was like, she got you a graphic novel? Like, I did think that was weird.

• 1:36:24Dax Shepard?

  Off brand, for sure.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Kind of like me putting my hand in the toilet.

• 1:36:28Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  Um, but now that I know it's out, that makes so much more sense.

• 1:36:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So we just had the sweetest conversation because there's some adult themes, I guess, in it. And she wanted to know if it was okay. That she was reading these adult themes.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:36:42Dax Shepard?

  And she felt like maybe conflicted. And I said, your gut will tell you.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:48Dax Shepard?

  Your gut will tell you when you're ready for things and when you're not ready for things.

• 1:36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:51Dax Shepard?

  And just listen to your gut. There's no right or wrong, or it's too early or too late. Your gut will, will, will tell you. So don't worry. You don't have to worry about what's right or wrong.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:00Dax Shepard?

  You just have to feel what's right or wrong for you.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:37:03Dax Shepard?

  Or when you're uncomfortable. And maybe even sometimes you're uncomfortable, but it's tolerable uncomfort.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. She's so cute. We had a horrible situation where I, you know, she loves these male eggs, which I think is take, also taking the world by storm. They're so cute. These little mice create characters.

• 1:37:23Dax Shepard?

  They're like little 3D printed.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  No, they're cloth.

• 1:37:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they're cloth.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're really cute.

• 1:37:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  And you collect them and then you collect their little, you know, house, you know, little like appliances and yeah, those.

• 1:37:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. They're all over the house.

• 1:37:40Speaker 01

  They're so cute. I kind of feel like I wish I could have some.

• 1:37:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  But it feels like maybe.

• 1:37:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, you could definitely have some. You think a guy might be.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Dax Shepard?

  Weirded out.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:52Dax Shepard?

  This is kind of like the diaper conversation from 2020.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  Oh, if you were wearing your diaper.

• 1:37:58Dax Shepard?

  If you were in your 20, if you like met a girl at a bar and you hooked up and then she said, I gotta throw my diaper on before I go to bed.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:38:06Dax Shepard?

  I think if you're cute, you pull it off. And so I think you could pull that off for sure.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  I just don't think there's an amount of cuteness that gets.

• 1:38:15Dax Shepard?

  To the diaper?

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, the diaper.

• 1:38:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, you know, we asked all the men in the, in the pod and all the women were like, absolutely not.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:24Dax Shepard?

  And the men were like, yeah, how cute is she? Yeah.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:38:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, this is adorable. This girl. So, I mean, she can't be a child. You don't want to be like, that's, that's, you gotta be really clear about what's happening.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:34Dax Shepard?

  You're with an adult.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  Then you find out this adult, where's night diapers?

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Is it, is efficient because it's not, okay, this was also part of it. It's not that she can't control her.

• 1:38:44Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Pee.

• 1:38:45Dax Shepard?

  Cause all day long she doesn't wear a diaper.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  It's just that she doesn't want to wake up in the night to go to the bathroom.

• 1:38:50Dax Shepard?

  To remind people, this stems from my game plan of starting to wear nighttime diapers.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:54Dax Shepard?

  So I didn't have to wake up and pee anymore.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:38:57Dax Shepard?

  And then people were like, what, what about when you're traveling? I'll get a fucking type when I go to that city.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Like, that's the question. Anyway, Malex, so they're really, really cute. And she wanted, one of the things on her list for her birthday and Christmas was a dollhouse for her Malex. Kristen told me about this and Kristen was like, she doesn't need like, an official one. You can just get her some random one. And I was like, no.

• 1:39:25Dax Shepard?

  Plywood box.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like get her a shoebox. And I was like, absolutely not. If she wants the official one, she's getting it.

• 1:39:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  And so I go on the website, the USA website, Malex, and it's, I order what's there.

• 1:39:44Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  Okay. And I'm excited. And I tell her it's coming. And then we go to Nashville and someone had got her one for Nashville, too. That's gonna stay in Nashville.

• 1:39:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  The one for her that I ordered arrived while I was gone. So I saw that it arrived.

• 1:40:01Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  But I didn't see it, right? So then we're in Nashville and she's like, oh, you know, look at this. And she was showing me the box. I was like, oh, my God, it's so cute, exciting. Well, you'll have one for both houses.

• 1:40:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  And then I get home and I was like, this box looks tiny.

• 1:40:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. Now I'm up to speed. Cause I saw you guys unwrapping this.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I got.

• 1:40:22Dax Shepard?

  Yesterday or the day before?

• 1:40:23Speaker 01

  A couple of days ago, yeah. I was like, oh no. But then I came, I was like, well, maybe you have to set it up.

• 1:40:29Dax Shepard?

  Maybe it expands.

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:31Dax Shepard?

  The box looked too small, right? That was the issue.

• 1:40:32Speaker 01

  Way too small. And I got nervous because all I just, she deserves the best.

• 1:40:39Dax Shepard?

  Well.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  Yes, she does. And I, I was like, oh, my God. And then I, so I come into the house and you, I don't see her, but she's there, but I don't see her. And you're standing there and you're like, what is that? And I was like, it's Delta's dollhouse, but I think there's something wrong. I don't understand. It's so small. And I don't know, this is bad. And then she like pops her little head out and is like, it's gonna be perfect. It's perfect. And I was like, I don't know, Delta, it's, it looks really small. And she was like, it doesn't matter if it's small. It's exactly right. And then, then I'm like, it better be a mansion dollhouse, like for her. It has to be so perfect. And then we opened it.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  And it is wrong. I mean, it's, it's right. It's what is available on the site. I looked it up. But like, so I don't know how you guys got that other one for Nashville because it's not on that USA site.

• 1:41:37Dax Shepard?

  I don't know either. I'm really conflicted about all this.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  No, I love it. So, so then it's not, what I got her is a suit casa. So it's just this like small suitcase and you know, and I, and I, you know, she took it out and I was like, oh, you know, I responded very negatively. I was like, oh.

• 1:41:59Dax Shepard?

  You really yucked the, the yum, the potential yum.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was like, ah, su casa, what is this? And she was like, it's great. And she was like, this is perfect. I, I need different kinds and everyone has different sized houses. So it's good. And I was like, oh my God, this person is so sweet. Like it's, it's unbelievable.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:42:30Dax Shepard?

  We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving.

• 1:43:12Dax Shepard?

  Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:43:24Dax Shepard?

  You now just jogged my memory of how we got on ethics.

• 1:43:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:28Dax Shepard?

  She randomly said to me at Cafe 101, cuz I do, and I'm, I'm on the fence about this, but I do it. I let her order more, I let her order whatever she wants. I can't even relate to it, right? Like, just the way we grew up versus how, like, you know, if she wants pancakes and she wants eggs, I'm like, yeah, go for it.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:46Dax Shepard?

  And she just out of nowhere, she said, Dad, do you wanna tell me I can't order as much? I go, you know, here's my thing about you ordering too much. I don't care if you order too much. I can afford to buy it. I said, and I recognize that you have a lot of decision anxiety. And for me, it's very easy to solve that problem with another $6 order of pancakes.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:09Dax Shepard?

  But I do worry a lot that I'm setting you up for failure because you're gonna grow up. You can't afford to fucking order whatever you want. And I feel like I get scared I'm not preparing you for

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  The world.

• 1:44:20Dax Shepard?

  The world. And she said, okay, but is it wrong? That's how we got on it.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:44:27Dax Shepard?

  Is it wrong? And I said, well, you know, there's a lot of rungs to this ladder. There's like legally what's right and wrong. I said, there's, there are morals we would all agree on. Don't kill, don't rape, don't steal, don't hurt other people. I said, and then there's this whole area where you have to decide what your own ethical code is.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:44:45Dax Shepard?

  And one of mine is, I try not to waste.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:49Dax Shepard?

  And I try to leave the world as I found it. And on a great day, I leave it a little better. I said, you notice you've never seen me ever leave something in the sink. It's a stupid moral of mine. I just won't leave it worse than I found it. And she said, okay. And I said, so you have to decide if you feel guilty about wasting.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  Right. And it's personal.

• 1:45:12Dax Shepard?

  And it's up to you. I'm not gonna assign you your morals, but that's what's kinda on the table. And she said, okay. Okay, I want you to tell me, I think you're ordering too much. You're gonna waste some in the future.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:25Dax Shepard?

  And I said, okay. And then she got a to-go box for her french fries. We're never gonna eat these french fries. Like while she's doing, I want to be like, well, hon, this isn't the time. These fucking things are never getting eaten. They're gonna sit in the fridge for fucking eight days and then I'm gonna throw them out, blah, blah, blah. But I just had to kind of honor them. So then we walked out with a, I have eaten or french fries. But anyways, this little girl, this fucking little girl.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  She's too much. She really is too much. It's like a lot. It's a lot. It's overwhelming. But I have, I have zero. Come for me in the comments. I won't read them. I have zero guilt about wasting food. I don't, it's, it is kind of weird. It's like, why don't I?

• 1:46:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, you can make a lot of compelling arguments in all directions. So one of the arguments I make for myself when we are wasteful is like, we're wasting our money, but I'm putting it into the world. I don't think I should be sitting here and squirreling everything I have. So I just always remind myself, when I have kind of wasted money, well, I wasted it by giving some small business that money or some manufacturer, whatever. So in that way, I'm like, well, that's not bad at all. In fact, the more we get out of my pocket and everyone else's, that's the best, probably. And then, no one's gonna like this, they'll come for me in the comments. Food, it is, it is not a finite resource.

• 1:46:58Dax Shepard?

  It is, so there's growers making money. There's this grocery store that sold it. There's all these people in this chain that were employed. And yes, if you want to zoom out as an unethical because someone's starving over there, yes, but that's a totally false argument because I can't get that food with that person over there. And if I don't waste it, it's not going to them. So this is like, it's a hypothetical. That's not reality.

• 1:47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Dax Shepard?

  So I don't get bogged down in that. But the thing that gets me more, I spun out and I can't tell what's just my own child and what's going on is like, so this thing you're talking about, this, these toys.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  Maylegs, yeah.

• 1:47:30Dax Shepard?

  Maylegs, and then there's Fuglers.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, we talked about Fuglers.

• 1:47:34Dax Shepard?

  Fuglers. And in my opinion, there's too many Fuglers. You shouldn't have this many Fuglers. And then I walk outside and I'm like, and I have seven cars I've collected over the years. So like, I am not in a position to be critical, but I, but I bought those cars.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, but she didn't.

• 1:47:54Dax Shepard?

  This is why the good place was made.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:47:56Dax Shepard?

  Being ethical at all times is nearly impossible in our modern world.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  There's not, to one person, it's this and to another person, it's that. Like, it's also why we're so divided. We all have such different ethics and, and what we think. I mean, to me, yes, there are some things that are, they're objectively wrong. And I, and sometimes when I hear other people's talk and I'm like, you don't think that?

• 1:48:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  It's like so startling.

• 1:48:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  Um, but then, but I agree with you. There's this middle portion that it really is very, very, very individual.

• 1:48:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  Um, because weirdly,

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  weirdly for me, wasting is almost like, it's like a personal respect. Like, I, like, when I am at a restaurant and I order something, I eat what I want to eat of it.

• 1:48:51Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  And if I was like,

• 1:48:53Dax Shepard?

  You have to overconsume.

• 1:48:55Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes, agreed. That's another one of my arguments is like, to make yourself take on excess calories your body told you you don't want.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:03Dax Shepard?

  It's insane to make who happy.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  And just like, I don't want anymore. I should be okay with not wanting anymore. I don't, I, the, there's a gluttonous element on the other side of it.

• 1:49:17Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  That's like, I don't like the way that is in people.

• 1:49:21Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  So I don't, I don't know. It's weird.

• 1:49:24Dax Shepard?

  Chris and I talk about this a lot because we get in little debates about what, what is wasting, what's not. And my opinion is you have to also be very pinpointed about when is it waste? Once you've ordered it, it's done.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:49:35Dax Shepard?

  Completely done. If you bought something from the store and you brought it back to your house and now you're keeping it in your house because you don't want to waste. That's a, that's a fantasy, that the buying it.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Some people eat it.

• 1:49:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm just saying people will, us.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:48Dax Shepard?

  We have just shit piling up because we would feel terribly guilty to throw it away. Stuff you can't donate. We do a lot of donating, but.

• 1:49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:54Dax Shepard?

  But my point is always like, it's too late. If you want to cut back on waste, it's the buying of it.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  Totally, that's right.

• 1:50:01Dax Shepard?

  Once you've bought it, forget it. You're off. You might as well do whatever you want, whether you eat it, or you throw it in the trash, or you stick it in your ass, or you light it on fire. It's irrelevant. It's that you bought it, and now it'll be replaced with more manufacturing.

• 1:50:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:12Dax Shepard?

  So that's done. It happened the second. There's no wasting or not wasting it. It's over.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:17Dax Shepard?

  I'm also reading the Ezra Klein book, Abundance, and yeah, he gets into climate in a really comprehensive, all facets way, which I love, which is like, you have different movements within the environmental movement. And one of them is really just a judgment on consumerism. A lot of the environmental movement, people in it, what they really want is they think we made this pact with the devil years ago when we became a consumeristic capitalist society, right? So what they really want is for us to not be that way. Now, what are the odds the world's gonna do that? That's not gonna happen. But people are not gonna go back to a pre-materialistic world.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:00Dax Shepard?

  He said, now you have another bigger group, which is like, there's clearly a lot of waste in the system, and there's a lot of resources being spent on stuff that shouldn't be spent on.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:09Dax Shepard?

  The problem is, people don't agree on what those things are. And then I think you get down to what I hope should be everyone's core value is like, my ethics aren't above yours.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:20Dax Shepard?

  They're mine.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:51:21Dax Shepard?

  You got yours. That's a superiority in the all-knowingness of thinking yours are the ones everyone should agree on.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  What about like, the want? Like, what about like, if someone's like, well, I'm allowed to like, hurt this person. It's like, that should, there should be some, right?

• 1:51:35Dax Shepard?

  Again, that's why there's ones that we actually all agree on. Everyone agrees that you shouldn't be allowed to assault people, kill people, rape people, steal from people.

• 1:51:42Speaker 01

  I guess those are laws. I guess that's when they become laws.

• 1:51:45Dax Shepard?

  They're the Ten Commandments. They're like, you know, they've been agreed upon for quite a long time. And then this other batch, like, as much as you're convicted about it, it's the other batch.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  It is funny, though, because I was, I am very materialistic. It's no secret. I like buying stuff. I like looking nice. I like whatever.

• 1:52:06Speaker 01

  Um, but I was at a store at home, a store I like, but I was looking around and all of a sudden I was just like, there's so much stuff.

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  Crap.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  There's just stuff. It's all just like random stuff everywhere. What are we do? Like, I did have this, like, what are we doing as a, as a people?

• 1:52:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, he brings that one up. He's like, of all these buckets, you've got fast fashion. Cement, cement is an enormous emitter of carbon when it's made and it's, we need it for construction. It's like, you certainly have one person saying, we don't need a fucking another football arena.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:45Dax Shepard?

  The other one works.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Dax Shepard?

  Legit. I'm going, looking at fast fashion and going, that shit's, you don't need that.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:51Dax Shepard?

  But I want, you know, like,

• 1:52:52Speaker 01

  Totally. Well, it's hard though, because it's like, there are sizes, so many parts of this because fast fashion, for me, I'm like, okay, I'm against fast fashion, right? Because I cannot afford.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. It's a total privilege to have that.

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  It's a privilege. So to me, I'm like, yes.

• 1:53:11Dax Shepard?

  Poor girl, you want an outfit, man?

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Of course, you want an outfit. And you should be able to have it. That is also what I feel. So I'm like, ah, I'm so conflicted about this because I do think there should be that available for people who, who don't have the privilege I have. Yet, then what I do is like, I think there should be some of those options, but I should not participate in it.

• 1:53:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  Since I don't have to.

• 1:53:39Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. Like, you do the things that you can do or that you're willing to do.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the judgment is the problem. The across the board judgment is like not looking at any nuance.

• 1:53:51Dax Shepard?

  We must all get a little looser on our grip of all in, all this, all, you know, definitive. It's left, it's right. All these different binaries are like, guys, life in its best outcome is like, we tried to service five or six principles and we did, we optimized all of them as much as we could, but they all took a hit along the way.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  I also, I, I just think maybe a good resolution is to be more focused on.

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  You, your, how you walk through life.

• 1:54:25Dax Shepard?

  You worry about what you're doing.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if, and if this thing that you're doing, yeah, just try to be the version of you that you think is ethical, moral, whatever. And, and stop looking outward.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Don't tell a fucking single person about it. Live your life and you'll be appealing to people who will want to model what you do. Be an example. Don't be a fucking preacher.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, anyway.

• 1:54:49Dax Shepard?

  Kumail.

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, Kumail.

• 1:54:52Dax Shepard?

  Where's Zeland on fast fashion? Did we get that out of him?

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  I forgot to ask.

• 1:54:58Dax Shepard?

  He does not wear fast fashion. He's very well dressed.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, he doesn't, but he's privileged.

• 1:55:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  He doesn't have to. Um, Unstoppable is a movie with Denzel.

• 1:55:08Dax Shepard?

  Sure is.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  And Chris Pine.

• 1:55:11Dax Shepard?

  And Ethan Suppley.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's probably how we got on the subject. Okay, I looked up how much the Koons vacuum cleaner in the box is worth. A Jeff Koons vacuum cleaner artwork's worth varies significantly. With some new Hoover convertibles selling for millions. Example, over four million at Sotheby's, over five million at Christie's. While smaller inspired or vintage models might fetch a few hundred to a few thousand dollars at places like eBay, showing the vast difference between collectible fine art and regular items. Okay, so his are in the millions.

• 1:55:44Dax Shepard?

  I want to say that the one.

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  That one, yeah.

• 1:55:47Dax Shepard?

  My friend found the piece of, I don't know if I told that whole story in this episode. The reason I even know about these vacuums is a friend of mine worked for the insurance company that had insured them. And I know that the collection, I want to say there were three in this collection. I think at that time were eight million dollars and this was 15 years ago.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:06Dax Shepard?

  And there was a piece missing.

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:08Dax Shepard?

  At some point, the, the art piece had been serviced or cleaned and a piece got lost. And then there was a claim laid on it. And so if we don't find this piece, the insurance company has to pay out eight million dollars. And my boy found the piece.

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:56:24Dax Shepard?

  He's like a sleuth.

• 1:56:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:56:26Dax Shepard?

  He just has to go to New York and befriend all these art critics and find, get himself into this warehouse.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  Interesting. Wow. That is a cool looking vacuum, I have to say.

• 1:56:37Dax Shepard?

  It's very cool.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:38Dax Shepard?

  But what's hilarious is all it is, is the, the vacuum from the store in a loose like box with a light under it.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  Problems. That's where my ethics are drawn.

• 1:56:48Speaker 01

  Like, I would not feel ethical putting an existing thing in a lucite box and calling it my art. I would not feel ethical doing that. But Jeff is his own guy.

• 1:57:00Dax Shepard?

  And it's beautiful. Something about it, I think it's ridiculous and I look at it and I like looking at it.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:57:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  Okay, so he said he had just gotten some massage on his jaw and then he was crying about his dead grandma.

• 1:57:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  And then I looked it up.

• 1:57:13Dax Shepard?

  I want that experience, do you?

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  Um, nah.

• 1:57:16Dax Shepard?

  Nah.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  So, my emotions are already a veil.

• 1:57:20Dax Shepard?

  That's true.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  But I looked up our jaw muscles attached to emotion because also Elizabeth, lame, Elizabeth and Andy, Beth's dead, nobody's listening, right? Um, she talks about how she can't have sex unless her jaw is like relaxed.

• 1:57:37Dax Shepard?

  Whoa.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  Like, it's like connected to like her horniness.

• 1:57:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  Isn't that interesting?

• 1:57:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:44Dax Shepard?

  So, is his job to massage those and keep them pliable?

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Um, I, well, I'm sure he does if he wants it.

• 1:57:51Dax Shepard?

  Like, my only route to sex was relax mastoids. I feel like I'd become an expert on.

• 1:57:57Speaker 01

  Masoos?

• 1:57:58Dax Shepard?

  On loosening mastoids.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Excuse me, that was disrespectful.

• 1:58:01Dax Shepard?

  What did you say?

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  I said masoos.

• 1:58:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. I want a massage therapist to reclaim that title, the way women have reclaimed bitch and.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:58:09Dax Shepard?

  Black people have reclaimed, yeah.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we know.

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  Everything.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Um, so, so, um, I looked it up. Yes, jaw muscles are directly linked to emotions, stress, anxiety, anger, and even happiness, because jaw tension or relaxation through the body's fight or flight response and nervous system, leading to clenching or a slack jaw. And this physical tension can also worsen emotional states, creating a feedback loop.

• 1:58:36Speaker 01

  So, that's cool.

• 1:58:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:38Speaker 01

  Um, okay, I, you said sixty-seven percent of people have teeth nightmares. Um, looks like thirty-nine to forty percent of people have dreams about their teeth falling out or rotting at least once, making it a very common nightmare theme. Though rates of recurring dreams are lower, around eight to sixteen percent. These dreams are often linked to stress, anxiety, or feelings of powerlessness. But sometimes physical dental irritation, like teeth grinding during sleep can trigger them.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, nearly four in 10 adults have experienced teeth dreams. I'm so rare. I mean, I guess technically I'm in the majority of these are right, but like still.

• 1:59:19Dax Shepard?

  You just don't have that nightmare.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:59:21Dax Shepard?

  You must not carry a lot of tension in your jaw. I had always thought it was my orthodontia history.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  Right, but it's actually your powerlessness history.

• 1:59:29Dax Shepard?

  I hate powerlessness.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. I had a dream last night that I was late. I was like, I was in Boca Raton.

• 1:59:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  And I, and I had to get, no, was I in Boca Raton? I think so. And, and I looked at the clock.

• 1:59:43Dax Shepard?

  Is it Boca Raton or Boca Raton?

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:59:46Dax Shepard?

  I think it might be Raton, but.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  In the South, we say Boca Raton.

• 1:59:50Dax Shepard?

  But maybe it is. Maybe we were saying it wrong in Detroit. We say most things wrong in Detroit.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  Well, and I was there and I looked at the clock and, and the fact check was starting in 11 minutes.

• 2:00:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wait. Oh, you were in Boca Raton or Tan.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  And I had to get here in 11 minutes. I had to get to the airport.

• 2:00:07Dax Shepard?

  You can't do it in 11 minutes.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  I was trying. I was like trying to get, trying to get my bags and I couldn't get to the right bag claim. And it was a lot.

• 2:00:16Dax Shepard?

  More than my teeth now, what has taken over my teeth is my goddamn phone. I'm always, it's always a flight. I always need to check if I can delay, like find another flight later because I'm not going to make it to the airport. And I cannot get my phone. Like every time I open my phone, I'm on a weird screen and I have a bug. It's like the old days on your computer when it gets taken over on AOL.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Dax Shepard?

  And you just fucking pop up screens everywhere and you could not.

• 2:00:38Speaker 01

  Oh, weird.

• 2:00:39Dax Shepard?

  Throw your computer in the trash. It would just take over.

• 2:00:42Speaker 01

  It would get a virus and it was just done.

• 2:00:44Dax Shepard?

  Fucking viruses.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So in my dream, my phone, it always has this virus and I can't get to the internet to change my flight. And that now is, I'm having that one at least three times a month.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Weird.

• 2:00:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I think that might just be like. Having a pretty busy schedule.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:01:06Dax Shepard?

  I think.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:08Dax Shepard?

  Like.

• 2:01:08Speaker 01

  Feeling like, what do I have today?

• 2:01:09Dax Shepard?

  So many things in my calendar and.

• 2:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  I get that. Um, okay. Was it Evan Peters and Mayor of Easttown? Yeah. This was so, remember when he told us a lot of Indians have an extra thumb?

• 2:01:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. It's true.

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  Pre axial polydactyl.

• 2:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so this is specifically just the thumb?

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. My twama. When he said that, I was like, oh my God. Like, I like really kind of hated that.

• 2:01:39Dax Shepard?

  The thought of an extra thumb.

• 2:01:41Speaker 01

  On Indians specifically. It was like.

• 2:01:44Dax Shepard?

  Even more other?

• 2:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:01:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  It's like, why? Oh, that's.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  That's the guy he was talking about.

• 2:01:52Speaker 01

  He is very handsome.

• 2:01:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. So for the listener, it's not what you think. It's not two individual thumbs. It's one thick thumb that then branches into two.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Right. Tips.

• 2:02:04Dax Shepard?

  Tips.

• 2:02:05Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 2:02:05Dax Shepard?

  Dude. Wow, I've never seen that. And that's common in India. And what I love is he doesn't, he's proud of that.

• 2:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a big.

• 2:02:15Dax Shepard?

  He's not hiding it at all.

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  He's a big movie star.

• 2:02:17Dax Shepard?

  I know a very big movie star that's got a hand thing and he hides it really, really well.

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, he's owning it, which I love. But it does stress me out.

• 2:02:26Dax Shepard?

  It does. And the thumb itself, from the angle where you're looking at the palm, it definitely looks like a cute, like, not a frog head, not a turtle head. It does look like, like, imagine the gap between the two thumbs is a mouth, and then I see an eyeball on the top.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of looks like Marcel the Shell.

• 2:02:43Dax Shepard?

  There we go.

• 2:02:44Speaker 01

  Seashores.

• 2:02:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a little character.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Dax Shepard?

  I, he must, does he, do you think he has dexterity in it and he can?

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  I hope.

• 2:02:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, he would have to, right? But I wonder if he can make that move like a Pac-Man mouth.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  I think he can.

• 2:02:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:02:57Speaker 01

  Now, while exact numbers for India are scarce, polydactylylily is notably more.

• 2:03:04Dax Shepard?

  That way your middle name's Lily?

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What if I had it and they got it removed because hold notably more common in Indian populations, especially pre axial polydactylili, um, extra thumb toe side with some studies suggesting rates as high as one in 3,000 births in India, much higher than general global rates.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Okay, a strong genetic component, it says, obviously.

• 2:03:37Dax Shepard?

  Duh.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it also says though, that a lot of people get it, studies, they get it removed at like birth.

• 2:03:45Dax Shepard?

  Sure. Okay, that means 400,000 people in India have it. If it's one in 3,000, if it's one in 3,000, 400,000, you could make a damn good living as the doctor who does this.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  It's the second most common congenital hand disorder. What? What if I had that and they got it removed?

• 2:04:04Dax Shepard?

  You didn't.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  How do you know?

• 2:04:06Dax Shepard?

  Cause you'd have a massive scar on your thumb and to my knowledge, I haven't inspected your thumb in great detail, but I think.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  What if I just?

• 2:04:13Dax Shepard?

  He screamed out loud.

• 2:04:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so.

• 2:04:20Dax Shepard?

  That's okay. We all have our things. Every group has a thing.

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  Well, no, it's, it's like, it's fine.

• 2:04:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:26Speaker 01

  It just, I just was imagining growing up here with that.

• 2:04:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:04:32Speaker 01

  It was hard enough.

• 2:04:33Dax Shepard?

  You'd have to wear gloves or something. And then you, well, would you rather be known as the girl that wears the glove or the girl with three thumbs? As a kid, I know I'd rather be the guy who wore gloves and you could just go, oh, my hands are really dry. And I know the doctor makes me wear these gloves. As you get older, you're going to have to like pull your gloves off at some point.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  This is why, like, oh my God, this is why I, I would, I would really, I would not.

• 2:04:57Dax Shepard?

  You'd be shut down for a bit because you're, you're very attractive and you, you're a real catch and you're already mildly shut down. So if we would throw in a third thumb, I think.

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  Well, you know me, like I have a weird.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Again, I like a self hatred, I guess, but of like, if a if a freckle or I'm like a mole, mainly even a freckle like pops up on my body.

• 2:05:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  I I like really can't handle it. I like have to dig it out.

• 2:05:27Dax Shepard?

  And it's again.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  Cause probably causing cancer.

• 2:05:30Dax Shepard?

  It's also a contradiction, which is you love Delta's mole on her face, right?

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  The most.

• 2:05:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and freckles on other people, you love it.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  No, it has nothing to do with other people.

• 2:05:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  I I the nothing.

• 2:05:43Dax Shepard?

  No, I would I'm going further. You actually like it in other people.

• 2:05:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's so cute.

• 2:05:47Dax Shepard?

  You hate it on yourself.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like I have this freckle on this finger right here.

• 2:05:52Dax Shepard?

  You're always working on that.

• 2:05:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it like it appeared in the last few years and I hate it.

• 2:05:59Dax Shepard?

  That is so, I mean, I don't want to call you crazy.

• 2:06:02Speaker 01

  No, it is crazy.

• 2:06:03Dax Shepard?

  But it's bonkers.

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  It's crazy. I know it's crazy. I'm like, how could I be so fixated on?

• 2:06:08Dax Shepard?

  I like it.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  You can see it.

• 2:06:09Dax Shepard?

  You just held it up so I could see it, Monica.

• 2:06:11Speaker 01

  I thought maybe it was invisible to everyone except me. Now I hate it even more.

• 2:06:15Dax Shepard?

  No, I like it and everyone likes it.

• 2:06:18Speaker 01

  And sometimes I'm typing and I'm just like, ew.

• 2:06:21Dax Shepard?

  You have to think of it as a part of your constellation.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  I don't want that.

• 2:06:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:06:25Speaker 01

  Um, so.

• 2:06:28Dax Shepard?

  Maybe you start wearing gloves.

• 2:06:30Speaker 01

  And then you'll be like, what happened? You get a new thumb?

• 2:06:33Dax Shepard?

  When that thumb finally come in, that Indian thumb?

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. All right. That's it for Kamel.

• 2:06:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I love you and everyone likes your freckles, so.

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  Don't look at them. Don't zoom in, guys. Do not zoom in.

• 2:06:46Dax Shepard?

  I want you to revisit hypnotism.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  He passed away.

• 2:06:50Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Really sad.

• 2:06:52Dax Shepard?

  Such a sweet.

• 2:06:52Speaker 01

  He was a really nice man.

• 2:06:54Dax Shepard?

  That story he told about the woman that loved him and he thought he needed erectile dysfunction medicine. And she said, you don't need that. Let me take care of you. Do you remember he told that story? Oh, my God. It was the sweetest story. He told it with such tenderness.

• 2:07:10Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:07:11Dax Shepard?

  I know. I really, really liked him.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  Go back in the archives. I get hypnotized.

• 2:07:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:16Speaker 01

  It's pretty.

• 2:07:17Dax Shepard?

  And it kind of worked.

• 2:07:18Speaker 01

  We'll say it worked. Cause he's passed.

• 2:07:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna get you hypnotized and the only goal of the hypnotism is to convince you that it worked the first time. When you wake up, you're gonna think the first hypnosis worked. Exactly. All right, love you. Love you.