Top Navy Admiral: "The Ocean is FULL OF UFOs!"

Our American Alchemist this week is Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (ret.), former acting administrator of NOAA and the Navy's de facto chief oceanographer , and the only flag officer on record who has spoken publicly about seeing the GoFast video on a classified Navy network. Support Tim and check out his book below: "Holding Fast in Heavy Seas" Amazon: https://a.co/d/06yZUTDR Barnes & Nobel: https://shorturl.at/oc3fe Website: https://www.timgallaudet.com/ You can support American Alchemy by signing up with our incredible sponsors below! -------------------------- Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code AMERICANALCHEMY at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/americanalchemy Factor: Head to https://factormeals.com/alchemy50off and use code alchemy50off to get 50 percent off and free breakfast for a year! MudWtr: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code JESSE at https://mudwtr.com/JESSE! #mudwtrpod Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (ret.) served as Superintendent of the Naval Observatory, Acting Administrator of NOAA, and is now a member of the UAP Science Advisory Council reporting to the ODNI. In this conversation, he discloses publicly for the first time: a classified email from a female Navy commander documenting UAP tracking across five to seven ocean hotspots worldwide (likely the source of Tim Burchett's "alien bases" claim); a classified Navy dive unit that experiments with liquid oxygen breathing , the same units Eric Davis says conduct crash retrievals in the ocean; the existence of NURO (National Underwater Reconnaissance Office), so classified even the Navy's chief oceanographer had no read-in; his personal conviction that something anomalous was recovered from the 1962 Bluegill Triple Prime nuclear test; and details of an active Atlantis search involving Victor Vescovo, physicist Max Derakhshani, and proprietary bathymetry data , with a potential deep-sea expedition imminent. -------------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w -------------------------- Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@jessemichelsclips Apply For Jobs ➤ https://jobs.gusto.com/boards/american-alchemy-3758eda5-237b-45f1-b043-da80a300714e Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  We've only explored about 10%, 10% of the ocean volume.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  The large territory of the ocean that we know nothing about really points in the direction that that's probably where they are.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  What would they be for you?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Undersea alien bases.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Tim Gallaudet, you were the Navy's chief oceanographer?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yes, and I was a one-star admiral, and I saw on the Navy's secret network, the Go Fast video.

• 0:57Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, dude.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  That was the day everything changed for me. There's this teardrop-shaped-looking UAP, 20 feet length-wise or so. It surfaces out of the water, and there's no disturbance of the water. And after a few moments, it just went... It looked like it was being lifted, like gravity in reverse.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's basically disclosure right there. I went out in the middle of the Baltic Sea, kind of smack dab between Sweden and Finland. And it looks like the Millennium Falcon. We've located them, but it's hard to actually extract them because it's like they have a life of their own.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  We lost GPS?

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Harold Malmgren talked about actually holding the pieces from this crash. And it came down, I guess, out of the plume of this nuclear blast in 1962. Do you know about this Bluegill Triple-Prime test?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  I helped Jeff Krugshank write the report on it.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Did you think that something anomalous was recovered?

• 1:59Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  On the deck?

• 2:00Speaker 01

  I do.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  It's like an accumulation of evidence, so...

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then these divers claimed that they saw UFO occupants outside these two saucers, and that they even took video of it.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  A recent development, for me, and it's exciting. We believe we found a region in the Atlantic with features that correspond to exactly how Plato described it.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Atlantis, maybe?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  We might be diving on that thing real soon.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  Ignition sequence five.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  How is this possible? Nothing too unusual about that.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Death, existence cannot longer be denied.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  All right. I have an admiral here. I have Tim Gallaudet. Is it fair to say you were basically the Navy's chief oceanographer?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  You were an administrator of NOAA as well, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  I owe you an apology. I don't know if you know about this, or what I'm about to say.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  No, I don't.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  When you testified before Congress...

• 3:18Speaker 01

  You were behind me, right?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  I was sitting behind you, and like an idiot, I was chewing gum. And I deserved to be, you know, slapped up the backside of my head or something for that because, you know, it just wasn't cool. I didn't know I was being televised. I didn't know I was in the shot, so I apologize.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  You were front row, right?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  I was front row. I thought I was cut off.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but see, all the cameras are at an angle.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  So there's a lot of shots where you're right there.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Well, I apologize.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  No!

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Publicly, I'm shaming myself.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  As far as I'm concerned, it was a good look.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  You have a very interesting family history, and I want to talk about it.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Who is Peter Wallace Gallaudet?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Oh, how about that? Yeah, he is, was a grandson of the original French Huguenot immigrant, Pierre Gallaudet. And Peter Wallace ended up serving in the Battle of Trenton and Revolutionary War, and fighting in it under Washington. And then Washington became president. He was the personal secretary for Washington. So yeah, how about that?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  It's special, yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  It's a pretty illustrious history.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Not bad, yeah. Close to a president, the president.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  A lot of people think about, you know, somebody with your credentials being, you know, a former rear admiral, and they think about UFOs, and they think that UFOs are not super serious and not maybe worthy of the attention of somebody of your sort of caliber. What brought them on your radar initially?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, two things. First, I was the superintendent of the Naval Observatory, and I had a team of astrophysicists who I learned from, and it gave me this appreciation for how big the universe is. Every galaxy, our galaxy, has 100 billion stars, which is really beyond human comprehension. And now we know the observable universe has maybe over a trillion galaxies. And so it's just... And then, because life's a property of the universe that we're here, and it's very diverse, why would it not be elsewhere? And that's what I work on, the Galileo Project for Avi Loeb. And he usually describes the situation like that, where it would really be extraordinary if other life didn't exist, other intelligent life.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  That's what would be really anomalous. So I was just very open-minded to the fact that we could be visited and by off-world civilizations. And then, of course, it kind of clinched to me when I was a one-star admiral, and I saw on the Navy's secret network the Go Fast video.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Signal six-one, thank you, Roger.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Oh, God!

• 5:52Speaker 04

  Roger. There's a shot shooting.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  What the fuck?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Can you box moving target?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  It was passed by an email dealing with the exercise where it was filmed. The exercise was going on off the US East Coast. Ryan Graves was one of the pilots flying off the USS Theodore Roosevelt. And I received an email about these UAP attached was the Go Fast video. And there was a real concern because this is a training exercise where all the pilots have to get certified to land on the aircraft carrier. And that you can't deploy overseas unless those things are done, along with other things. And so this is very compressed, high pressure. And they were... The email mentioned that they were considering shutting down the exercise. After what happened is, Ryan talks about this. There was a section of F-18s flying, doing some training mission, and that's when one of those weird

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Cubanosphere UAPs split the section.

• 6:46Speaker 05

  There were two aircraft from my squadron, VFA 11. And we flew, or, excuse me, they flew, took off as a flight of two. That means they're essentially flying in a formation like this. And as they hit the area, one of these objects went right between the aircraft.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  If you're not an aviator, it's hard to appreciate how dangerous that is. You want nothing close to you if you're in, you know, two aircraft flying in formation, very close. And nothing should be within miles. You know, you would want to have anticipation of anything in the airspace being, you know, miles away. And then when all of a sudden the pop-up UFO splits the section, everyone went crazy. And that's why the two stars sent that email to everybody. And of course, I knew right there, we don't test advanced tech in training ranges during a very compressed training exercise. And we have instrumented test ranges for that. And I knew all of our adversary tech and threats because I had Tom Secret SCI clearance. And so I knew that wasn't ours either. Just every now and then,

• 7:45Speaker 01

  we'll have like Chinese trawlers with SIGINT gear spying on our exercise, the exercises. There was nothing like foreign there. So it was clearly not foreign. And I knew right there, that was the day everything changed for me. And it was just, well, something you'll just never forget. When your whole paradigm just totally changes in one day.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Wow. And so you received an email, and then the email was deleted?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  So this is interesting. And Jay Stratton has since confirmed it because I believe he was somewhere in the naval intelligence community, and he, and either the predecessor of, or I forgot exactly when he stood up, the UAP Task Force. But what the story, he told me what happened is, when it was deleted, they were still not sure whether it was adversary tech or off-world anomalous. So that's why they deleted it from everybody's computer because adversary tech, foreign military capabilities are always very highly classified. We don't want, we keep that at TSR higher because we don't want them to know what we know. And we don't want them to know how we know what we know. And I've been involved with all many programs like that,

• 8:53Speaker 01

  especially undersea programs. And those will never see the light of day. That's just, and that relates to this whole UAP over-classification thing. But yeah, and so, and I knew this too because I've seen, there's a protocol what happens when you, it's called spillage, I believe, where if you release information at a certain classification level, and you release it at a lower classification level network, you have to basically clean it up. And there's a whole protocol to do the cleanup. And I realized when the email was deleted, that's what occurred. And I thought, oh, this must be TSR higher. And this knowledge of these UAP. And that's why I just never said anything about it until I left the government.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Wow, fascinating. So, yeah, that must have spooked you, the fact that you got an email about a UFO, and then the email was deleted.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  And then you kind of, so you find out later through Jay Stratton, who's, he ran the UAP Task Force and is, I believe, former Office of Naval Intelligence. Is that right?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's worked in a number of intelligence capacities. And so, yeah, he worked, and we worked in the same circles and knew the same senior naval intelligence professionals.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  And then the interesting thing about Go Fast is that's probably one of the more... So there are three videos that came out kind of alongside the 2017 New York Times article with Leslie Kane. And you have Go Fast, Nimitz, and Gimbel. And Go Fast is kind of one of the most controversial of those three. Is that right? Because there are people in Arrow that say it's just parallax, which is essentially movement of the FLIR pod, like of the tracking system. Like typical parallax would be put, you know, finger in front of both your eyes, and then you close one eye, you open the other eye. It looks like your finger's moving, but it's staying in the same place. Is that, do you think that that's not the case? Then it's definitely not parallax.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  So it wasn't going very fast. That's true. They called the Go, I don't know how it got the name Go Fast. I don't dispute that. Because, yeah, that, the angle of where it's looking at the object, and it appears to go fast because of the water underneath it, but it was high above the water, and that's why it looks like that. I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the fact that this was a spherical object that had no flight control surfaces or means propulsion, traveling in an intelligently controlled manner. And it was in formation, by the way. There was, I believe there was four. So that's the context no one talks about. And that's why, after my hearing... John Kozlowski made some statements about that during his hearing inferring that it wasn't very anomalous because it wasn't going very fast.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  The go fast looks like an object flying very fast over the water, very close to the water. A trick of the eye called parallax makes it look like the object is moving much faster.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  He didn't cite the other instances, the observations I just, I just stated that, and by the way, the context also was that Ryan was out there. They were seeing dozens of these things. And you can hear the pilots on the Gimbal, for example, and the go fast. So here's another thing. Why did, I don't want to disparage John because I think Arrow is moving in a new direction now. But, but why didn't they acknowledge the fact that the pilots went crazy? The audio of the go fast video, you hear them. They're trying to lock it in and they lock it in. They go, got it. You, you've heard it all.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, whoa.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, they're in the airspace. They know what's normal and they're clearly excited because this thing is not normal.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Well, that's always my question is like, unless the guy's acting, it's like, that feels irrational reaction to something anomalous.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yes. And then, and Ryan flew with these guys. He, he knows the guy whose voices it is.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  You know, they flew together as squadron mates.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  And, and clearly this was a buzz in the squadron. They all knew these things were out there. They had no explanation. None of the intel officers on, on the, on the carrier.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  The carrier has a whole intel team. They didn't know what the heck these were.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So anybody who tries to dispute the go fast video is, is, is trying to skew the conversation.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  It'd be great if that guy at some point came out. Because with Nimitz, you have all of this. You have people and then you also have.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Just today, as we record, the principal deputy director of the, of National Intelligence, okay, Aaron Lucas just sent out a memo, per the president's directive, saying that if anybody has information regarding UAP and they had to sign an NDA, that the NDAs will be waived. And they can come out and make reports to the pursue team in the Department of War or, or Arrow. So that's, that's significant. And so these pilots, they, they, I don't know if they had to sign NDAs, but now just that directive right there is every day, something is happening where the stigma is just being destroyed. And, and those pilots might want

• 13:40Speaker 01

  to come out. The only reason they're doing it because they don't want it to potentially harm their career. But those days are, are nearly over.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Seems like it. Yeah. If anything, it seems like a career boost. It's like all these opportunities to like, get involved in kind of avant garde research and, you know, academic institutions. And, you know, I, I think those days are over, hopefully.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Well, if you're a career naval aviator, maybe not. That's.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  But, but again, it's starting to get acknowledged at the president's level and the, and the secretary of defense with the pursue files. So who knows? That might change entirely.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then it does feel like certain whistleblowers are not treated well. People like David Grush and, you know, Dylan Borland and Matthew Brown, some of these guys don't seem like they're treated well after the fact.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Well, this, so there is a large part of the IC that's entrenched, you know, and they're still either part of the legacy program, or at least the fact it still exists that much of this information is, remains classified. And they don't want to see classified information revealed, which is fair. Because some of it might involve our own collection capabilities. We don't want that out there. Yeah. But it, it's, it's, it's wrong that any of those whistleblowers have to be treated or treated poorly or, or harmed even professionally.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. I think ontological truth is different than a trade secret that can confer a tactical advantage.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Well said.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  All I try to do on the show is cover ontological truth. And I think same with, you know, anybody coming out saying like this fundamental thing that people should, should know about because it deals with metaphysics and physics and things that should be taught in academia. Like no one.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  The nature of reality.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  It's the nature of reality. Yeah.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I, I'm with you. I'm glad you said that because that, yeah, and it's, it's unfortunate how toxic some of this has become because there's different individuals in this space have different agendas. And it has created divisions and so many people question other people. And, and just for the record, that, that is the only reason I'm in this game. I don't make any money from this. I don't get any advantage. I just want the truth. I've been given through my credentials, a voice and I, and my voice is like yours. I want, I just want to promote the truth.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Yeah. No, it's, it's a tough topic. There's a lot of infighting, a lot of interpersonal dynamics. You'd think that it should be us against the world. And it's, you know, often kind of us against us and.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Human nature.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's, you know, I think a rising tide raises all ships and, you know, just.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  There you go. I like your nautical terminology. Yes, sir.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. No pun intended.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  It's true though. I, I totally agree.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  I wanted to take a step back and talk about almost the intellectual firmament for even thinking that there might be non-human intelligence in our waters. And there are some great books, you know, Ivan Sanderson, you know, Invisible Residence. And there's a whole history of experiences. You have, obviously, Richard Dolan has written a whole history of, you know, UFOs.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Great book. Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Unidentified submersible.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  A lot of Navy ships in that book.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Navy ship reporting them. Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Can you set the scene for a person who just thinks about UFOs as coming from space? And they have no idea about this kind of waterborne history of UFOs and USOs?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Right. And so it's interesting because right now.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 17:43Speaker 07

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• 19:34Speaker 01

  So it's interesting because right now, we don't, our understanding of physics and certainly engineering, traveling light years to other galaxies is something that just is not possible with what we know. So that's out there. And then the other thing is that our, our earth is old enough to have had a civilization evolve and then have it, if it were to maybe want to avoid any kind of cataclysms like asteroids and, and impacting the earth or, and all the, all the, just the terrible weather and tsunamis and things that could destroy civilizations. The, the length of time of our, our earth, I guess,

• 20:18Speaker 01

  being in existence, could, could, it's foreseeable, and this is called the Solarian hypothesis, you know it, where some, these civilizations could have gone under the ocean and moved their entire infrastructure or even within mountain ranges in the US, probably less likely. But, and then have the geological record basically destroy any evidence of their existence and have them still be resident somewhere. Right? That, that's possible in terms of the timeframe.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  So they think about we're four billion years in existence. So what, what if an advanced civilization evolved after a billion years? It's, it's very possible. So that's why, that, that kind of lends credibility to the hypothesis that possibly these UAP come from under the oceans. But what's more interesting is the data. So Richard Dolan anecdotally shares all these reports of UFOs, UFOs coming out and going into the water. And it turns out, I'm privy to a very interesting piece of communications. And I've said, I talked around this once on one show previously, and this is the first time I'll really go into it. Mostly because I feel empowered by that new PDNI memo about UAP information.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Okay. The, the whole intent is we don't want to withhold any of this information from the president. Okay. Well, let's talk about this, this email. I have a friend who worked in the military and he was deployed to a joint task force overseas. And so joint meaning there was different services in there. And there was a, it was a intelligence officer from another service. So he was the J2 in the task force. And one night, he pulled my friend into their building and.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  And they have a skiff and he showed him two things. One was a video and it was attached to an email and like me in the go fast, a very similar situation. The, the video he saw was, I think from an infrared sensor. It was fairly low, low and it was over the ocean and it was observing this teardrop shaped looking UAP that might've been 20 feet length wise or so. And it was traveling under the ocean water and we could see it clearly under the water, moving along waves over the top of the surface. And, and then at one point it surfaces out of the water and there's no disturbance of the water. It surfaces out, keeps going and then it stopped

• 22:45Speaker 01

  to hover and it, it seems to behave like it knew it was being observed. And after a few moments, it just went vertical all the way up beyond any sights basically of the sensor. Sensor couldn't even track it. And it looked like it was being lifted, like, like gravity in reverse, you know, like an inverted fall. It moved so fast. And the, the intelligence guy looked at my friend and said, how does that thing fly? My friend had an engineering degree and that's why the guy asked him this question, the intel officer, the J2. And he said, I, I, I just don't know. Let me think about that. He goes, yeah, well, think about that. Why don't you sit back here at the terminal? I gotta go pack because I'm leaving. He was redeploying after the next day. And, and so he

• 23:27Speaker 01

  let him look at the whole length of the email. And here, here's what this email said. It was from a commander, a female commander in naval intelligence. And it was to this long distro of a couple hundred people, a hundred people, maybe, you know, nearly that many. And my friend was very perplexed at this because the, normally in the US military, your email domains are, you know, my name, then at, and for us.navy.mil or same with army or whatever. And then there's, OSD is usually just at, I think it's like mail.mil. So I, I know all these domains. He looked at all these domains on these email addresses and he didn't recognize any of them. And they were not

• 24:10Speaker 01

  only, they weren't just three, like us.navy.mil. There were four. And, and they were, and they're all Xed out. XX dot XX dot XX dot XX. And he was, first he was just looked at that and thought, what the hell is this program? Cause he was on some system that had a color background that he'd never seen before. And I don't know if you're probably not aware of this, but when you are on a network, you're, you're on a workstation, you can sometimes transfer between classification levels. You just change the input to the screen. And so unclass, unclass systems usually have a big green banner. Top secret, no secret is red. Top secret is yellow. And this thing had some weird

• 24:51Speaker 01

  colors you'd never seen before. So he, he knew this must've been some compartmented program or whatever. That, I mean, that's, that's his only, and then these agencies, whatever they were, he didn't know where, where these people were from. It just didn't, but so that struck him as strange. So, and the attachments that, that crazy UAP. And then this female commander goes and says, basically, you know, she refers to the attachment and she makes the following statements. She says, we've been tracking these for some time. We still don't know their origin or intention.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  And we, we want to get you up to speed on this because right now, all the agencies that have access or have this information, everyone was kind of keeping it to themselves because they think it might be part of some, some SAP, special access program. And they, they're afraid that sharing it might, might remove their ability to continue to have access of the information. So that, and that's happens in the government all the time, the stove piping of people wanting to protect their own rice bowls. So she made this as a statement that we needed to do more collaboration on, to find out what these are. Okay. And that I'm sending this email to all you, our partners to encourage data, data sharing and more discovery. And then, and then she said,

• 26:05Speaker 01

  these objects, all they, we see them in the ocean more than, more than elsewhere, coming in and out of the ocean. And they seem to be occurring in five to seven areas of the world with more frequency than, than others. Okay. And that's, that's, that's the gist of the information. So a while back, you might've heard Tim Burchett make this claim, yeah, someone came to me and there's five to seven alien bases, right? Undersea alien bases.

• 26:33Speaker 08

  We have a higher propensity of sightings around these five or six, I believe, deep area, deep water areas.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Now, when he said that, I thought, I've never heard this. I was the oceanographer of the Navy. This is, this is probably a stretch. And I, what I think happened is someone who'd seen that email is the one who talked to Burchett. So the woman did not say they were undersea alien bases. She just said, we see them coming in and out of the water a lot. And they're usually in five to seven areas of the world, like with, with consistency.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  So that, that's, that's knowledge right now that hasn't been put together in terms of two plus two.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  With a lot of these congresspeople, you know, they'll make these big claims and it's just really hard to know what the source is and where it's coming from. So this is really, it's good to know that that might be the source.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you can see that, that, that was a very privileged email and that's why that source did probably didn't want to be named. But he, but he felt, but he felt like so many people have done to me. He felt, well, okay, this congressman's, he's a champion for this. I'm going to at least tell him and let him make sure he knows. So I, I think, you know, when you put those two together. And then, then the third line of, okay, UAPs in the ocean that you asked me about, I've had several submarine officers come to me, two and one listed. And they all reported to me these instances where they were all of a sudden encountering an object and under a water that was closing rapidly, more rapid than normal other, and adversary submarines,

• 28:06Speaker 01

  you know, had signatures of a torpedo, closing rapidly, constant bearing, decreasing range. Three people all had this and the subs did an emergency deep maneuver where they just all of a sudden, okay, we, this is what you train to do if an adversary torpedo is inbound. And, and then in each case, whatever the object was, this slowed and it went behind them to kind of get out of there. And it's called going into your baffles where you can't, your sonar can't see it. So they actually purposely evaded and then, then left the area.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  And torpedoes can't do that.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  No, they, they have a very strict profile. It's basically close as rapidly as you can to eliminate the, the target. So that's not, yeah, it's not, we don't have technology that does that. And so, and all three of those folks, and then I even had another guy tell me, he had a similar encounter. He was an acoustic specialist, retired as a captain, was on one of the Navy's acoustic intelligence ships off Japan. And two cases, they also observed these anomalous objects. And all of them called me, uh, cause they, after my testimony to say, hey, I want you to know that there's, there's some there there. And, and these are very credible people.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, you have Alexander Wiggins, we can talk about because he's sort of on record. Uh, he's an example of.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Well, I'm proud of that actually, because he, he, he came out because, because of me. He saw that I testified. He, he looked me up and sent me a note and we got on the phone and talked. And, and I encouraged him to engage the Hill and now you see he testified.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  And what, what was his case exactly?

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Well, I'm pretty sure, forgive me if I screw this up, but I think he was on the bridge of the Omaha when that's, that one object, spherical object goes into the water off Southern California in 2019.

• 29:55Speaker 09

  A self luminous tic tac shaped object emerged from the ocean before linking up with three other similar, similar objects. The four then disappeared simultaneously with a high synchronized, near instantaneous acceleration.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  And then he shared with me video of when he was on the USS Jackson, same region. And, and they were seeing multiple erratic moving UAP at night. And I mean, and he told me this, he said, we see these things so often out there that we're desensitized to it.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they call it the silent service for a reason, you know? And so a lot of people see a lot of things and then they, they sort of keep, keep quiet.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Well, well, so this is, Alejandro wasn't, uh, he was not a submariner.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Or Alex. Uh, he, but he was on these surface ships. But they, yeah, the submarine service is called the.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  They call that the sounds. Okay. Got it. Okay. Got it.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  But ultimately, so that, what I mean, I think it's a good thing to point out that. Alex, you know, he testified eventually because he was encouraged by people like me. And that this is good. So now he testifies and others say those are going to come forward. And, and you see, this is a movement. It's, it's not slowing down.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Hopefully it kind of snowballs and we get some official statements made and you know,

• 31:13Speaker 01

  It's occurring.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  We kind of crossed the Rubicon. Um, in, in 2013, I believe in Aguadilla, you have this, uh, in Puerto Rico, you have this, uh, you know, three minute video of a transmedium object, an object that seems to descend into the Atlantic Ocean and then come out as well.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And of course, all the debunkers have tried to do just that on the video. Ultimately, just like all the pursue files. Yeah, we need more data. We need other sensors to corroborate that, but it appears to be another example of transmedium UAP encounter. And, and so, yeah, and I think that's what we want to do in the UAP Science Advisory Council that I'm on now that reports to the ODNI. Is we want to analyze these videos and data more to get a better grip on their, their actual velocities and movements and trajectories. And, uh, and understand better how they do what they do, what, what they are, and then ultimately what their intention is.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  One of my favorite cases is Nova Scotia in 1960, because often with a lot of these, you know, unidentified submersible objects, it's just the object. In this case, it involves occupants, possible pilots, maybe non-human intelligence, sort of driving or steering. And then I think repairing the object.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. Yeah. So this is a, in a book by an author named Chris Stiles, who went and researched these Royal Canadian Navy divers. And, and, and it was all in the aftermath of an exercise, a mind sweeping exercise called Sweep Clear Five. And that's the title of the book. And, and he investigates all this and evidently, and there were sightings of UAP going into the water at night. And then, and then these divers claimed, uh, that they saw UFO occupants outside these two saucers on the, on the seabed. And, and, and that they even took video of it. And so interesting, I, I, I'm going to make a couple of plugs.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  There's this one researcher in Canada who contacted me recently and he's, he's investigating that he's doing FOIA's or the equivalent in Canada. To try to get that video, basically. His name is Brian Fitzpatrick. And, um, I'm going to do a quick, we can go down this, this rabbit hole later, but the reason he, he, he first started investigating cattle mutilations. And we, let's talk about that later, but, but he has a book called The Operator.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  And it's, it's astonishing book. I, it's, it's the, I think it's the biggest reveal about cattle mutilations out there. And so he's a real diligent researcher. He used to be, he was a 20 year homicide cop. And so he knows the, he understands the forensics of these kinds of things. But ultimately Brian is researching this whole topic of the Nova Scotia UAPs. And again, it's, it's a, you read the book and there seems to be evidence, not hard evidence, but eyewitness testimony of these UAP in the water. And like you said, occupants. It's amazing.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  You think about a movie like The Abyss, you know, and,

• 34:14Speaker 01

  It's, yeah, it's, it's the abyss in reality, right?

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wonder how much, and I, I believe it, it was like, they didn't use non-human intelligence, but it was very similar.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  It was, it was, yeah. What was the name of it?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Non-terrestrial intelligences.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  And it was these kind of like luminous objects in the deep sea and they would sort of, and you got to wonder, you know, with, with people like Spielberg and James Cameron. Like, are they getting little, you know, whispers in their ear from, you know, real sources?

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Right, right. And, uh, and in fact, um, there's a Reddit thread out there and I don't know what to make of it, but let's just start, everything's starting to add up. And, and I think this guy's name is Condor Man.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  And he went to, he made a big statement and this is Reddit. Okay. I'm not, I'm beyond of what I know, actually.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  But as we start lining things ducks in a row, okay. Another duck in a row is this guy who's, who's made statements that those five to seven places where, of the world's oceans, where you, we see UAP coming in and out of the water, uh, that, um, that they are locations where they reside, NHIs. And they're, they manufacture their own UAPs every time they, they come out. Everyone's a new one. And he had some other wild statements. I'm not going to go into them here, but every now and then I'm finding more and more about the ocean connection.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  This was a, I believe, um, a 4chan whistleblower.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Oh, was it?

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. He claimed to work on the program.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  That was it. That was it.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  He said that, basically he implied that every time you mentioned Lazar, you get in trouble because he was this sort of, you know, leaker of, you know, real stuff from the program. And that these objects are made in mobile construction units.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  So you have things going around under the ocean and then they're made for purpose. So they're made to spec.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  In different shapes and forms, uh, in order to carry different payloads possibly. And it's just, I mean, I, I know you, for clarity, you're just relaying what you saw on Reddit.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  I can't claim this.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  You're not endorsing it, but I think it's fascinating.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  That is so interesting. Well, yeah. And as I said, I only start going down this now because of that email I mentioned, which I, I know my, my source is credible. And, uh, and so I, I'll, I'll definitely swear to that. But then as you project that forward, yeah, who knows? Uh, anyways.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Well, there have to be, you know, yeah. Cause I think the Burchett thing where he's walking around, he's getting interviewed by some TMZ person. And he goes, yeah, there are five, you know, spots where these things seem to show up more, more than not. That gets translated on Twitter to like alien bases.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  So, but I do think they're hotspots and you, we mentioned, you know, off the coast of Japan. I, uh, just recently interviewed the defense minister there, uh, former defense minister and Hamada-san.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I might've been at, at, uh, I know that I gave a virtual presentation to this UAP caucus in the parliament or diet.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  In Japan.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  A year or two ago. And then just recently I was interviewed in a Japanese, um, media outlet called The Liberty.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  And, and you know, now the prime minister of office is setting up a UAP investigation unit. So that Japan's, yeah, there's a lot, a lot of changes recently.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. They're very kind of, uh, forward looking on the whole topic and.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  How'd that go? How'd that go?

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Oh, it was amazing. It was really cool. It was such an honor to be there and such a beautiful experience.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Were you in Japan?

• 37:31Speaker 02

  I was in Japan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  I love that country. I live there.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  I was on, not much. I was on a ship that was at sea a lot, but we were stationed in Japan.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Okinawa or where were you?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yokosuka.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Oh, Yokosuka. Okay. Cool. Amazing.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Love that. Love the people. Love that place.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  It's got an incredible history when it comes to UFOs. There's a, um, a mountain called Mount Sengun Mori and it's in the Fukushima Prefecture. And Fukushima, of course, is famous for its 2011 nuclear disaster. Um, but UFOs were reported to show up around the nuclear disaster.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  I know. I've seen the video. Yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  And there's a, there's a mountain with the, at, at the top of the mountain, there's a museum dedicated to UFOs in Sengun Mori. Yeah.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  No, did you go there?

• 38:12Speaker 02

  I went.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, that's great. Really?

• 38:14Speaker 02

  There's also a guy, and I'll, I'll shut up about Japan at, at some point, but there's a guy, Takano Jousen. He's a NASA historian and he has met Edward Teller. He's met Jesse Marcel Jr. He's interacted with Herman Oberth, you know, the father of German rocketry, like all these amazing kind of gray beards. And he has these NASA, uh, you know, rocket boosters and capsules on loan from NASA for a hundred years. And he has a museum dedicated to American space history and UFOs. And he claims to have a,

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Is it in Japan?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  He's in Japan. And he claims to have a piece of the Roswell crash with that. And I don't know if it is.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Did you look at it?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  I did. Uh, it was in a, it was encased and I just, you know, I was like, there's definitely a translation barrier. And I was asking about the, you know, the extent of the testing and it, to me it's, you know, similar to what you read on Reddit. I just can't endorse the thing, but it was amazing.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's really neat, Jesse. Love it.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  It was cool. Um, but okay. Speaking of, you know, alien bases or hotspots. If you had to, you know, just pinpoint hotspots around the world, one might be the South China Sea. Are there, are there others that like, would you, if you had to, if you had to pick like five to seven top candidates, what would, what would they be for you as far as hotspots?

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I'm not super knowledgeable about this, but, um, there's one in the Atlantic. I'm almost certain the Bermuda Triangle or what have you. And then, uh, and then Southern California, uh, seems to be, the Catalina Channel seems to be a hotspot.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  That's just from my, my own, uh, I would say less than educated knowledge. I don't, I'm not a dedicated UAP researcher, but. I'm starting to be one, if you will. What do you, what do you say?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, Preston Dennett wrote a book called Undersea UFO Base.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  I've read it. I've read it. See, that's where unfortunately you get into total speculation. Not again, not, not to hammer him. It's an informative book because all those eyewitness accounts are, are serious. These are people who saw things. But at the end of the book, I find some fault with what he did. He, he went and there's this whole line of, on social media somewhere about this feature off of SoCal called Sycamore Knoll.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Point Dume off the coast.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Yep, that's right. And he, he puts it in his book and ultimately that, that, that area has been so thoroughly researched. There was even a peer reviewed marine geology publication on that. And, and it was surveyed extensively and there's, the geologists all come up with various theories about how it was formed, but that, that, that when he, when he speculates that's the undersea base, he's totally off the mark.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  It's been so thoroughly surveyed. There's, it's, it's just not, I mean, it was sub, also sub bottom profilers that go under the seafloor to look at the geologic structure. There was no alien base there.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I occasionally surf at Point Dume and I, you know, I've had some friends who I, actually I believe a mutual friend, you know, Will O'Brien at Ulysses?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  So I was like, Will, we gotta get your rover and, you know, put it down there and let's see. And we did a little bit of preliminary research and for the context for the audience, this is somebody with a startup who builds these amazing deep sea rovers. And we did the research and we're like, I don't think there's anything. It's not even worth the resources to like.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wouldn't have been.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, but still holding out hope maybe for Catalina.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Well, hey, look at this. I have, uh, right. And so this is how common this is becoming. So my, my, my middle daughter is at the Naval Academy and she's a midshipman and very proud of her.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Congrats.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Thank you. And, and she's studying oceanography, just like her parents. And, uh, and her, she swims on the swim team like her parents and, uh, and so it's fun to see, but her teammate, uh, her teammate has a father who was just retired as an F-18 pilot, formerly F-14 pilot, so Navy captain. And they live in Pacific Palisades and, and they've seen, they've seen UAP over the channel, lit, lit in formation, several like white lights, clearly operating under intelligent control. I mean, and it was funny because when we first met, he'd known that I speak up about this and the, the family shared with me, oh yeah, we see these things.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are a lot of reports around Catalina. I'm a, I'm a big fan of this sort of mid-century, uh, inventor named Thomas Townsend Brown. And he had a UFO experience on Catalina Island.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 42:31Speaker 02

  He was being approached, this is, by the way, his daughter relaying this. Um, he, he passed away in 1985. But he was being approached by this orb.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yes, and I know the exact spot. It approached him. It actually approached him. And he said that he learned so much, standing there with that ball of light. And he said he went to work immediately and he worked, that was, that was the beginning of his life.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  And I guess he then sort of approached the orb and they had this like, almost like communion moment with this sort of glowing orb. And according to his daughter, that was when he downloaded his life's work. And he had a lab in Pasadena at the time and he, he went back to the lab and he just, you know, really started working on this. He was, actually became a Navy man after that.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  You know, this is interesting because now I'm on this UAP Science Advisory Council, reporting to OD and I, and we're starting to dig into all these pursue files. And there's this one report that came out about these law enforcement agents that are at a national security site somewhere, uh, in the West. And they have all these interactions with orbs and ones even a mothership of orbs that launches other orbs from it. And, and this is, uh, and this is something actually that Avi Loeb, our chair, wrote about in one of his Medium articles, because this is, these are legitimate witnesses. And then, then John Kozlowski, for the record, stating that a large percent of these orbs just have no explanation.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  There's nothing that we have that we, that we could, it's not weather, it's not some technology, it's not some laser effect. They're, they're, they're seriously just not sure what these are. So that, that's, he, so we're starting to look at ways to describe, how do you produce these orbs? What are they? And then we're starting to, to research these because they're seen everywhere, all the time. And, uh, yeah, so that's, that's a, a serious line of investigation. I'm going to go under this, as a member of this council, to go meet with, uh, two engineers that, um, uh, off the coast, they've been researching off the coast of Long Island. Jerry and John Tedesco.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, Tedesco brothers.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have some serious data of orbs, uh, off, offshore, some going into the water. And, and so now this is a legitimate line of research for us. So I'm, I'm going to go up there. We're actually, I'm not going to go there. We're going to go to Maine and that's just the location we're going to meet. And I'm going to review their data and hopefully, hopefully share that with the rest of the council and, and, and start doing a little more, a little more, I mean, the council has a number of different types of psychologists, engineers, physicists, oceanographers like me. So we're going to go, all go after this and see, uh, if we can get, improve our understanding what these are actually.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Well, they were a big part of tracking the Jersey drone flap.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  In 2024.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Trump made a really interesting, you know, as Trump tends to do, kind of shoots from the hip. And after that Jersey drone flap, he was like, uh, we know where they're coming from. They're coming from a garage.

• 45:45Speaker 10

  Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. Something strange is going on for some reason they don't want to tell the people.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  And it seemed to be implying that, you know, he thinks that they're coming from underwater. And there were sightings, of course, around that time off the coast where it seemed like these UAPs were emerging from the water. So.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I actually, I, that's a big question mark for me, the Jersey drones. I don't know their nature. I have a good friend named Greg Scaduto, who now works with Ryan Graves at Americans for Safe Aerospace. And he wrote a terrific article. It got published in the Rolling Stone about the New Jersey drones. I encourage your listeners to check it out. And, uh, but it's still, it's just still a, a real unknown there in terms of, at multiple levels, local, state, even federal. Trump, yeah, he made the claim, but he didn't really back it up with any evidence or any further elaboration. So I'm not sure what to make of it.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

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  Right now you get up to 43% off, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code Jesse at mudwtr.com. That's M U D W T R dot com. Now back to today's show. You are looking for Atlantis, maybe?

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. I, I, I'm on an NDA for this. I can't say a whole lot more, but I'm with a team of very esteemed. Archaeologists and geologists that we believe we found a region in the Atlantic that is fits all descriptions of Plato's in Plato's dialogues where he talks about Atlantis at length with actual dimensions of the width of the canal and system and other features of it that I won't go into because I don't want the location revealed. But we believe we found an area. We have some proprietary bathymetry and it's very high resolution.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  And the region that he points to, basically, there are a lot of features there that correspond to exactly how Plato described it.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  So we're in the, just today, I had the most amazing development. I can't say who, but a very, very well-funded researcher with a very high-end ship and remotely operated vehicle is, wants to take our, wants to take the brief. He wants to hear the

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this happened today, and I'm thrilled because this guy can make it, make this expedition happen this summer.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  That is so exciting.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  I know, I know. I mean, I'm praying because we, he's got a ship and he could, and this ship does, he owns it. He could do whatever he wants with it. And if he really feels the need, we might be diving on that thing real soon.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  That's amazing, man. Well, if you need a water boy, just let me know.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Right. Well, anyways, yeah, more to follow.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Very, very cool. Can I speculate? And can you, you don't have to say anything as to where this thing might be?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Well, let me just, I think this whole thing, topic of Atlantis is a lot like UAP where it's just sort of gotten very conflated with all these other theories and whatnot. And I think when you just walk it back to the timeframe he alludes to, it's not impossible at all.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  And then we come up with the geologic theory to explain rapid geological subsidence over, over a period of just a few years rather than millennia that could cause a whole city to submerge, like an island, right? So there's, there's all the, all the physics and all the human history. We're not talking a million years ago or a billion. We're talking within the span of human civilization, before Egypt, but yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, pre the 90s, you know, if anyone were to say that the civilization was as old as Gabeckley Tepe said it was, they'd think you were crazy.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  And so the history of archaeology is the history of things getting older. And it's like Moore's Law or something where the number of transistors on a chip, it's basically literally a law.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  You could basically come up with because the things that are lower in the sediment layer are also generally older.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  And archaeology itself as a field is only 200 years old with the, you know, discoveries of cities of Assyria and Babylonia 200 years ago.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  It's fascinating, huh?

• 53:01Speaker 02

  It is fascinating. And so I think the idea, not necessarily Atlantis is a placeholder term that comes from, you know, Solon relaying this myth to Plato. I think a lot of people discount that because it was told at this mythos festival of Temmaeus and Cretaeus, when in fact, you know, I think a lot of Plato's stuff was probably actually ontologically true and real. And a good, a good example of something like this is Troy was supposedly fictional.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Exactly the same thing, right.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  And Heinrich von Schlemin, this kind of amateur German businessman, found it.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  And modern day Turkey.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Because exactly, it's someone who's not mainstream in archaeology who, and he found this. In fact, here, the person who is leading this research effort, again, not going to name his name, but he, he's a career emergency room M.D.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  He's not, he's not, has nothing to do with archaeology, but he, and it's a good story because it takes people who are outside the system to have a more, you know, practical view of, and this is, this occurs in all fields. So he, because he's an ER doc, stressful job. And so he would, on weekends, just look up things that were interesting. And he kind of got down this Atlantis rabbit hole and started reading the original dialogues and doing, and just over 10 years of time, compounding a great deal of open source geologic and archaeological information and then bringing on advisors. He's bringing on, and so this is neat. I'm really glad. I'm a recent advisor. I came in just because of my oceanography

• 54:38Speaker 01

  experience. And what I did, so I set him up, there's another researcher, and because we want to keep this private, I'm not going to name him, who has been researching UAP and moon structures. Okay. I won't name him now. So he comes to me and we, we end up just sharing information and staying in touch because I like his approach. This is really interesting research. He's, anybody who is approaching these fields with a real objective and bright mind, he's a physicist, for example. And, okay, I want to know you.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  He might have been on my show, but.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Oh, actually, after, when all this comes out, I'll lecture him to you. He's a neat guy.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  He's, yeah, he's the one researching moon and Mars structures.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  He's not, it's not Max Derakhshani.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  It is.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Okay, I was gonna say.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Well, then, if, well, then that's fine. I don't mind having his name out there.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been on. So yeah. And he's a friend. He's amazing. He's so hard-headed.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Gosh, I know.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, very deep. And I wouldn't want to debate him as a skeptic.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. No, I'm not in his league. No. But yeah, so it is Max. And in fact, but so Max kind of came up with this algorithm that is, is searching for, I guess, terrain. It looks at any kind of 3D topographical dataset. And, and the algorithm, and someone else developed it. So I don't want to, and I don't know who that is. I forgot his name. But, but so just a full disclosure there. But the algorithm can determine with, I think, a high probability, what is natural and what is human-made or artificial. And, and then you can, and so what I did is I said, this would be really good for our Atlantis region

• 56:22Speaker 01

  bathymetry. And so I connected Max and this researcher, and they got along. And that's, and that connection eventually lead, is leading us to potentially this very wealthy ocean researcher with a ship.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  So I find this, so this is like a very broad philosophical pitch here. I never say no to anyone who reaches out to me. I don't, I don't not answer emails. Every now and then I get some really strange things. I don't answer those. But, but if there is a very legitimate credible person who says, I'm very interested. I want to contribute. And sometimes I just got to say, thanks. I'll keep your name in, you know, when I'm ready to, when there's something that comes that we could use you for. But it's just, it's just, to me, it's, I don't like being rude. And I like, I know the opportunities arise when you build a network and maintain it. And that, that's exactly what happened with Max. Okay. I'm busy with, and it was, it was, you know, every new person has more information,

• 57:19Speaker 01

  sometimes hard to keep track of. But I knew Max had that real intellect. This is a guy worth knowing. And now he might make this whole Atlantis thing a victory.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  That's so exciting. Well, I really hope it happens. And yeah, he's the, exactly the right mind to kind of help with, you know, efforts like this because he's, he's very hard-headed. And yeah, really kind of lucid as a thinker. So.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Right. There's someone else in that category I want to bring up quickly. And I'm not sure where this will go, but I happen to also not say no to a person who reached out to me who was a writer. And his name is Richard Batelho. And he's got a book called The Full Extent. And he wrote a really thoughtful, long-form article called Human to Humanoid. And you could look up his website, Richard Batelho. What's interesting about him, besides just being a, we're getting a deep thinker on this topic, is, you know, you might know, we've gotten a lot of traction in the media. And so, for example, I was on Bret Baer's show, Jake Tapper's show, Sean Ryan's show, yours now.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  And so Rick is the one who got me the Bret Baer interview. And he's the one, he's been my private kind of confidant in getting to Brett, which is big. Having that and is, I think is really helping our movement. And he remains interested. So not only did he interview me, he interviewed, I think, Carl Nell.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  David Grush.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  David Grush, Jay Stratton. But basically, once, once Rick came to me, then I ended up vectoring Brett to all those folks. And he, he got them all on. So that, that's been a big kick for us of getting the credibility established and mainstreaming this. So I wanted to give Rick a shout out too, as one of these.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Shout out, Rick.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  They're out there. Yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'll say this, and you should say nothing, but I think the Azores is interesting. The reason I say that is because I'm friends with Randall Carlson.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  And he is probably as deep as anybody I know when it comes to Plato and, you know, the historical accuracy of like where Atlantis would actually be located. And so he puts it in the Azores. It's a very broad region. So at least, you know, we could, we could keep it vague. But yeah, I think, I think something might be interesting.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Randall and is it Graham?

• 59:41Speaker 02

  Graham Hancock.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Hancock, yeah. Exactly. I like these folks that are not.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  They're pushing the boundary of science and history, as it should be, in a legitimate way.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  So, yeah, we're learning more. And like you said, history, we're walking back history more and more.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  The ultra terrestrial hypothesis is so interesting, this idea that there was maybe a cataclysm. I mean, maybe something caused the ice age, and that's what those two guys think, is that maybe there was a comet airburst in the torrid meteor stream, which occurs twice a year, every year. And this occurred, literally, actually, if you look at when, you know, the legend of Atlantis was told, it was like 600 B.C. and it was like 9,000 years earlier is when this occurred. And that maps to meltwater pulse 1B, which is a flood that probably got us out of the ice age. So like if flood caused the ice age and a flood might have gotten us out of the ice age. And both might have, you know, involved sort of cataclysmic shifts in the earth.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  And of course, you'd end up with a lot of stuff really buried. And all this stuff Graham is uncovering of like, you know, footprints in North America from 20,000 years ago and ancient archaeological structures that look, you know, really the same across disparate parts of the world. I think Atlantis is this, it's become this hokey, almost age of Aquarius hippie like placeholder that, you know, has a connotation, has baggage.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  But the ideas of there being possibly an antediluvian advanced civilization, I think we have to be open minded to that.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yeah. Why not?

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  In terms of our evolution of our intellect, there has to have been really rich civilizations in those time periods.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Totally. Have you heard of the Baltic Sea anomaly?

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  I have, yes.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  So I went out there.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Oh, that's right. I saw that. Yes, I saw you on that. It was with Dennis.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Dennis Asperg. He's a treasure hunter. I guess historically, this was like this mercenary, like trying to find like, you know, often it was like liquor and wine and these like, you know, shipwrecks and stuff. And in the middle of the Baltic Sea, kind of smack dab between Sweden and Finland, he finds this thing that looks like the Millennium Falcon as far as the shape. And it like, it seems like it's emitting all sorts of electromagnetic anomalies.

• 1:02:04Speaker 07

  Lost GPS?

• 1:02:05Speaker 10

  You're very close to the.

• 1:02:07Speaker 07

  To the object? Oh, my God. We're right above the spot, right above the Baltic Sea anomaly.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  And they send rovers down there and the rovers go off and GPS failures occur all the time. It's actually very similar to Skinwalker Ranch in many ways.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Oh, let's talk about that, too.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  Well, I want to talk about both because the subplot to me of the show, Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, and basically the Baltic Sea anomaly is that we've located UFOs, or at least UFOs in that they're unidentified and they have bizarre properties. I'm not saying they're flying objects. I'm not saying they were formerly flying. I'm just saying there's a lot of anomalies and there are sort of weird attributes to them.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Right. And you're talking about the one in the mesa.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  The one in the mesa, exactly. And it's like, we've located them, but we, it's hard to actually extract them because it's like they have a life of their own.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  So I'd love to get more of a, a more robust oceanographic team out to the anomaly to research it.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Because Dennis doesn't have infinite resources.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  It's hard to go to sea and do research like you did. And that's, so potentially like with Atlantis, if I can get one of these higher end, well-funded oceanographic researchers to explore that, I'd like to. So I'm looking for opportunities. But going back to the ranch, a recent development for me, and it's exciting and interesting, is that

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  it was actually because Brandon Fugel, the owner, he and I had this common, I will call it a difference of opinion with the former Aero Director, Sean Kirkpatrick. And that sort of united us in a little, in a way, we started communicating and he said, and he invited my wife and I out to the ranch. By the way, I want to talk remote viewing because my wife has completed Paul Smith's courses.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  And we should go there.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  So, which is really neat. And, and so we communicated and he invited us out. So we went out and we had this great day together and it just, it was really something that the show doesn't necessarily highlight purposefully, but it is so beautiful out there. I love the West and it's just a great location. We didn't have anything anomalous occur. But, but we got the whole history and we learned their scientific method, which is terrific.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. And I don't know, a lot of people, you know, say, oh, it's like the modern Oak Island or whatever. Oak Island's very different. Okay. Like, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant and the whole show is them not finding the Ark of the Covenant.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch, they're finding interesting stuff on every show.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  So it's like entirely different. It's not like there's this one binary event, you know, after all this buildup. It's like an accumulation of evidence, so.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you have to appreciate too, the history here. Recall that DIA funded a two-year or so effort to research the ranch. And this is the books that Jim Lekatsky and Colm Kelleher wrote with George Knapp.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Then the follow-ons that Jim wrote, Future Visions and New Insights, I think they're called. But that, he documents fully the research done there, all the anomalies, many witnesses. This is a government funded, I mean, actually, some people, he likes to say, or maybe it's him or somebody that, that that's basically disclosure right there, that, those books.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Funded effort and so, and it's transitioned now to the nature of the show right now on History Channel. But, but serious, real research that Travis is leading.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. And a lot of those dirds that came out of that period.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  OSAP and, you know, what Bigelow was doing. It was a lot of really impressive scientists who were kind of doing that research.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  These are serious people. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And it's interesting to me that academia is so kind of, you know, dismissive of a lot of these things because.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Academia, actually, here's, so I have a book, you know, out here and it's called Holding Fast in Heavy Seas.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  Go buy it, Amazon?

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  It's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, my website, timgallaudet.com. And it's about my leadership in the Navy and then at NOAA during Trump's first term. And, you know, ultimately, what it is about is that Trump is a very challenging executive to work for. But, and even though we had, I dealt with that, we were able to achieve at this agency I worked at, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA, a lot of really significant environmental wins, wins for the ocean, for ocean technology, for weather. And, and this, it's just the story of how to prevail when it can be difficult. And so, and just like right now, okay, the, the, a lot of people have a hard time with many of what Trump, things that Trump is doing,

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  the Iran war, what have you. But, but there are things he's also doing that are very good. And I, his science advisor, Michael Crassios, I worked with him during the first term. And, and I think he's taken a good approach. Granted, a lot of funding cuts that we have a problem with, but there's plenty of private sector research occurring right now. And that's really what he's working to embrace, is all the advances in the private sector. And, and, and so my point is this, that, that a lot of the American scientific enterprise, mainstream science, has become, and Avi writes about this all the time, basically gun shy. They're, they're just, they refuse to innovate and use frontier tech. They've sort of just gravitated towards the mean.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  And I think, I think Avi and Michael Crass, I think they're right. And this is what this UAP thinking is about, this embracing the potential for Atlantis to be and go search for it.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  It's just not, not being afraid, willing to think outside the box. And that, that just in terms of, in terms of the way you think. And so I think mainstream science, they're just, because they, they won't look into UAP seriously. And that's, those are the things I'm trying to change. That's what my book's about, is, is working to address things as, as you see them for the truth that they are.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. I think, I think the kind of Overton window, things just get very narrow.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  At the end of a paradigm. And often things that are not taken seriously end up, you know, being, becoming the mainstream in the future. And if you can't point to anything that isn't received knowledge, that you're not, you know, somewhat into or interested in or think might become received knowledge or mainstream in the future, then you're definitely on the wrong side of history.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  You have to be, kind of inherently. If you just look at the history of science and human knowledge, there's a decay rate on present knowledge and there's always new knowledge coming in. So.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  I think being totally close minded to that is kind of dogmatic. And I agree with you.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Good. Yeah, exactly right. I'm glad. Thank you. I appreciate you addressing that.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  The other thing I wonder is how much. Kind of, you know, signatures, whether it be radar, you know, actually move the needle. Like, I feel like we need the threshold for evidence, because, you know, I just debated Michael Shermer, who's a fellow UAP Advisory Council member on the show. And it's like the threshold for evidence for a lot of, you know, people to believe that there's even a there there is really high. Like, you need like, because I brought up like this Japan Airlines case in 1986, I believe.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  I know that, yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Where it's like, you have 45 minutes of publicly available radar data, physicists who've reviewed it, like Kevin Knuth, who's also on the review panel. And he's saying that, you know, I think these show, you know, UFOs present. And you have, you have two objects, and then you have a large, like, almost aircraft carrier sized walnut shaped object following this thing.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  And then you have this, you know, what seems like a very above board pilot who, I believe he was, you know, military before he became a commercial pilot for decades. And, you know, Japan, Japanese culture, it's like, they're not histrionic or attention seeking at all.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  And so, you know, you have that, and you have, and you have the Nimitz case where it's similar profile with David Fravor, and you have Fleer alongside it. So like, say you get the radar for Nimitz, like, at what point do we just admit that there's a there there? I mean, you, then you get optical on top of that, like, I'm not, I'm still guessing some subset of the population, if we had optical radar and Fleer, you know, in a specific instance with a high credibility witness, they would still be holding out.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that seems to be, well, remember, this, this whole stigmatization has been an 80 year campaign, and it's been very effective and well funded. It started after the Robertson panel, and we all, so this is, it's just, that's why it's so hard to break. It's, no one's, it's not open yet, but it's becoming open. And I think, I really think, well, there's two things. The more the public has to be accepting, and that's occurring. And then I think it's important for authoritative sources to acknowledge this reality. And that might be what is occurring with our government right now. It's, again, it's still, it's a work in progress with the pursue files. Again, there's no metadata there, but there's a whole lot of UAP activity in those videos and reports.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  So I think that's what it's going to take. I think it's going to take our government, because we, we do show leadership in many areas, still, we still do. It's going, it like, I mean, I'm doing with the Science Advisory Council with ODNI, it's got to be the, the White House saying, okay, here's what we have.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Well, speaking of kind of people who are more open minded and adventurous, I think I read somewhere that you might be working with Victor Vescovo on the Atlantis front, or?

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  He's a good friend of mine.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Okay, so I, I met him through my work at NOAA. And, and so, we signed an agreement together. We were at a Capitol Hill event, and I introduced him, and that's how we started our relationship. And the agreement we had was he had built this submersible that could go to the full ocean depth, deepest part of the ocean, the Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench. And he, and he bought a ship, a former Navy ship that became a NOAA ship, and now was his ship, called the Pressure Drop. And then his submersible is called the Limiting Factor. And he dives to five, in 2018 and 19, he dived to the five deepest trenches all around the world. No one had ever done it. And he called this the Five Deeps, and then he did the deepest one, Challenger Deep, 14 times or so.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  And so what we did at NOAA is we put a scientist on a ship to help him accurately map all those trenches, because none of them had been, had been mapped to modern standards and fully. So, so he could say, this is the deepest part of that trench, and then go dive in it. Some of the trenches that he dived in, we weren't sure what was the deepest part. And so our scientists helped him with that. He shared his data with us, because we're, we're the curator of bathometric data for the US EEZ. So we have this relationship now. And, and yeah, and he got there because as a member of the Explorers Club, like me, he had, he started out mountain climbing, and he climbed Kilimanjaro, and he failed the first time.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  And he, that steeled his resolve, and he succeeded the next time. And then he decided to climb all the highest peaks in the continents. He, I think he climbed the five, and then he skied to the North Pole and the South Pole. So, yes. And so that's called the Explorers Grand Slam. So he did all that, and then?

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  And he's been to space.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Yep. So that was, so there you go. Then, then he did this, because that wasn't enough for him, he did all those five dives, and then, then he went into space. Yeah.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  So he's the most vertical human on the planet.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Sounds like it. It sounds like the real life Dos Equis guy or something, the most interesting man in the world.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  He is 100% that. You know what, and it was cool is that, first of all, he's a very humble guy, was a Navy intelligence officer, and then retired as a commander. And so, one of my favorite pictures in the book is at, the first person to dive into the Marianas Trench, the Challenger Deep part, deep seven, 35,000 feet, so it was seven miles deep. It was a guy named Don Walsh, with a Swiss oceanographer named Jean Picard in 1960, with a US Navy bath escape, they called it. And I can't believe they made it, just unbelievable expedition.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  So, and no one did it after, except for James Cameron once, and his, his, his submersible almost didn't make it. And then, so Victor followed them, but Victor did everything right. He engineered it perfectly, he even pressure tested it, and the only tank that can do a full ocean depth simulation, and it's in Russia. And, and so anyways, so Victor goes and does that, breaks Don Walsh's record. And, and then in 2022, maybe, there was a 90th birthday party for Don Walsh. And so Victor came, and I, I came to celebrate him, and, and so we got this picture together. Don Walsh on one side, retired Navy captain, who had dived the deepest dive until then.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  The person who broke it, Victor Vescovo, retired Navy commander. And then me in the middle, retired Navy admiral. And we're holding, at the Explorers Club, a Navy flag that Victor signed and took with him and to that deepest dive in the Marianas Trench. So he, he actually flew it outside the pressure hall, so it got a little wet and has a little rust on it. But, so I have this Navy flag, he gave it to me, too. And he, it's hanging in my, my family room, and it's, they know it's been to the deepest part of the ocean.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  That's special.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so cool. And then, and that, that picture of all of us together, that, of all Navy officers retired.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  Wow, that's incredible.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  I'm proud of that, yeah. Here I am, these two giants, and I'm just happy to be there along for the ride.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Well, you're a giant, too. You have an amazing history.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Not like those guys.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  I don't know, I think you're being humble.

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  But Victor, Victor is interested, we gave him the presentation on Atlantis, and he said, all right, I'm in.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and?

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  That's a great guy to be working with.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  He's fantastic. So one of my favorite things about him, too, is the Navy named a ship after him.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Yep, the surveillance ships that, that I mentioned, acoustic intelligence specialists, potentially identifying an anomalous object in the ocean, those ships, those ships, there's a class of them, a new class, that do have active and passive sonar and find enemy submarines. The new class is named after Don Walsh, and the first ship is the Don Walsh, and the second ship is the Victor Vescovo.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  And we had a big ship naming ceremony with the Secretary of the Navy at the Naval Academy last year, and, and Victor invited me.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  And I was even more proud, the night before, he had a small family get together at dinner, and he invited Karen and I. And my wife, Karen, being a Navy diver, we, an oceanographer, it was, it was a neat, it was a really special night.

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  Wow, that's so cool. Do you ever look into the history of the Navy? Like, look at, I don't know.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  I, I've studied the Navy's history ever since I was a midshipman. I love naval history.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  I, I'm, you know, way more kind of fair weather fan than, than you are, obviously, with your experience. But I look into certain people like, you know, Hyman Rickover and John Pena Craven, and?

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  I, I always wonder, you know, what they might have known about UFOs. Hyman Rickover is, you know, head of the Nuclear Navy.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  And? Founder, yeah. Do you think that?

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

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• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, do you think those guys ever, you know, knew anything about UFOs at all? So, probably. And here's something interesting. Just recently, and this, this builds off research that Sam Gerbus, UAP Gerb, have you had on your show?

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's been on the show, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so he, this is something he uncovered that I thought was remarkable. He found, I think it was him, found a video of former, I believe, Director of National Intelligence or Naval Intelligence, Bobby Ray Inman, Admiral. He mentioned, this is well after retirement at some event, he mentioned the National Under, Underwater or Undersea Reconnaissance Office, NRO. And so he, he basically acknowledged it was a real thing. In all my years in the Navy, as, as the head oceanographer, and? Knowing, having access to undersea classified programs, I've never even heard of that organization.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  No, I never, I didn't think it was real.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  And so obviously it is real and it is so classified, I didn't even get a reading.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  You would think the head oceanographer, that there'd be some, there's, there's no boundary, there's a boundary there and, and I, I didn't cross it.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Well, you, you look up, so yeah, NRO's National Underwater Reconnaissance Office.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  You look it up and the Wikipedia is five lines long. And I mean, even the NRO, which they, I guess they call it the, the, the little brother to the NRO or the undersea brother. And the NRO was only, I think, made public in the nineties. So for, for, for 20, 30 years, I think it was totally off the books.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  That's right, that's right. So that, that, and I know, I know why, because at least that, again, undersea technology is, that's, can't be compromised because that's will keep our shores safe, keep, give us an edge in, in any fight. And, uh, um, so, and it's interesting, for example, there's a book out there called Blind Man's Bluff.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Great book.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. So that, and, and that's, um, uh, a lot, a lot of the submarine community is not happy about that book being published.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. It's all their trade secret. So, but ultimately, uh, so that's how tight that kind of a technology capability is. And if, if, as in our earlier discussion, there are undersea UAP, uh, those would be the assets that would have observed them.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  And that, and so ultimately then that means, yeah, there, there are Navy folks who, uh, uh, admirals in history who, who probably knew about this. Uh, I, but I don't know for sure.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  Cause Bobby Ray Anman, I believe, set up NRO, according to Gerb. And he then, I believe on a phone call with Bobby Oxler, this UFO researcher says, yeah, maybe UFOs might come out at some point. Kind of implying like he knows there's a, there's a there there.

• 1:21:12Speaker 04

  Do you, uh, anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever be, uh, become available for, uh, technological research? Again, I honestly don't know. Uh, is a possibility.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, who knows, but, uh.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  So here's something interesting too. Uh, I believe it's the Abyss. There's a, a thread there somewhere in the movie about these divers using liquid oxygen or, or derivative. Basically immersing in, in the, and having a fully, um, not breathing air, but breathing the liquid. Which sounds terrifying to me because you basically got to drown first, right? And, and in the movie, they take a rat and do you remember this part of it? They take a rat and they put him into the solution and it's of course reacts, doesn't want to drown. All of a sudden it inhales the water and then it feels, starts to breathe. You don't know about this, do you?

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  So here you go.

• 1:22:10Speaker 11

  No man, she's, she's gonna drown. Look, look, she's freaking out. Just going through a normal adjustment period.

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  Normal, this looks normal to you. She's gonna drown.

• 1:22:17Speaker 11

  He's taking the fluid into his lungs. He's taking the fluid into his lungs.

• 1:22:25Speaker 11

  There he goes. So there's a bit of anxiety here. Now he's starting to relax. He's breathing fine. See his chest moving? Getting plenty of oxygen. Damn rat's breathing it, shit.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  There is, uh, there is a, a, a special unit, I'm not going to say exactly where, of Navy divers that have experimented with that technology.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  And it gives them longer bottom times and all this, but it's very, um, dangerous. And, um, and so this is a very, uh, a highly classified unit that, uh, I know about. And my, my wife didn't even know about this until I learned later. And so they experiment with that kind of technology. And if any, anybody does crash retrieval, by the way, Eric Davis has said there are more crash retrieval operations that have occurred in the ocean than elsewhere.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  That's wild.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  And then, and the units that do that is these guys.

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  So is, does an admiral know about that in the past and today? Probably. And they, they don't say anything.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  I wonder about like Glomar Explorer too, Hughes Corporation and a lot of these kind of.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  So they were, they were the ones, that was the one to recover the, the Soviets up.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  The Soviets.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  The Soviets up, that was it, yeah.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, I, you know, I wonder if any of these things are dual use and, um.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  Why not? If you have, uh, some great capability, that's what you would use.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  And, and Bob Lazar, it's interesting. So he did this first kind of press run and he talked about obviously Element 115, reverse engineering a craft at S4 Area 51. And he recently, there was a documentary that came out about him and he just did some other interviews. And he goes, actually, I didn't mean archaeological dig. I meant this was a Navy find on the seafloor.

• 1:24:11Speaker 12

  From what Barry said, that was an archaeological dig, which by the way, isn't in the desert, it's in the water. Yeah, that was happened upon by the Navy. And

• 1:24:22Speaker 12

  that's, that's all I know.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  And so I find that to be a very interesting data point as well.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  I know what he has to say about that.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not much more than that. That's kind of, you know. But you also have Pax River is very interesting. Um, I just had on, uh, Missouri representative Congressman Eric Burleson, who's a great guy.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  I like that guy.

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  He's super kind of straight shooter on this.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  What does he know about Pax River?

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  Well, he visited Pax River and he said, you know, and it's public that, you know, it's probably the most advanced, you know, aviation, naval aviation facility in the U.S. And he, he visited and he said, if we, if we were to store a craft, it would be here.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  And I'll tell you, just being there and seeing it, um, if you were ever going to do a transfer, it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  And he said, maybe there was even like, uh, you know, that, that Lockheed trying to exfiltrate their UFO so that Bigelow could have their eyes on it and look at it. Maybe that craft was held there. And so that was fascinating. Again, who knows?

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  I used to live by there. Yeah. That's very fascinating. I would like to know.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, same. Um, and then of course you have, do you know about this Blue Gill Triple Prime test?

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Very, very much. Uh, my wife and I helped Jeff Krugshank, uh, write the report on it.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  Okay. So you're familiar with this.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  There's a whole section of, he wrote this report and, uh, there's a whole section where we examined deck logs of ships that we think were involved in some partial recovery of either that object or something related to it.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  This is amazing. So the context for this is Harold Malmgren, who is this kind of elder statesman, you know.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  You interviewed him. That was a great interview.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Really, Pippa is wonderful. I wish.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  She's amazing.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  I wish I met him. It's an honor for you to.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  It was a total honor and I, you know, I felt in many ways unqualified, but just really as I do here. But it was just a great, uh, beautiful interaction kind of at the end of his life. He talked about actually holding the pieces from this crash and that, uh, it came down, I guess, out of the plume of this nuclear blast in 1962 in October, um, you had this Blue Gill Triple Prime test.

• 1:26:34Speaker 13

  He said, well, he reached for some stuff sitting on his desk. These are things that have come down.

• 1:26:45Speaker 13

  I'm looking at, yeah, this is, you know, the round rock, you know.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  So you're looking at like material, anomalous material.

• 1:26:52Speaker 13

  Yeah.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Debris.

• 1:26:53Speaker 13

  Yeah.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  And there were these Navy deck logs and I believe there might've even been an outage on one of the ships. Like there was some radioactive.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everything shut down. Yeah. They lost power.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  And then there's this, um, SOPUS, uh, uh, Special Officer Present Afloat.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  Senior Officer Present Afloat.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  There you go. You would know. Um, so General Starbird, I believe was his name.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Admiral?

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  Admiral Starbird. Okay. There you go. You're helping me walk through this. And he, and he flew, I believe to the U.S. in seemingly this kind of like emergency fit.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  At 4:00 AM that night.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  So it seems like something dropped out. And then there's, um, a guy who used the Freedom of Information Act to request all records of UAV, UAP, UFO, any acronym related to UFO from the Starfish Prime series. And they were like, yeah, we have responsive records, but we, we had to forward them to the special, uh, you know, to the subject matter expert who knows about this.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. The NNSA said this.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  Oh, oh yeah.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  Who was that that requested it?

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  It was an anonymous requester. So, you know, maybe you have to put, you know, adjust your, your, you know, belief in that somewhat based on that. But, you know, it seemed like a real request and it seemed like he screenshotted the response. So, um, it seems like there's a tapestry of evidence that a UFO might've come out of this plume from Blue Gill Triple Prime. And it's, it's just amazing.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, again, not a hundred percent, but very highly likely, I'm convinced it did.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  And so that's what happened is we, we went and looked at all the deck logs for Jeff because he. Great guy, by the way, really diligent researcher, nice person, too. And because we know how, we could read a deck log and know exactly what's going on. And so, okay, the ship's doing this, this is what happened, and we were able to interpret for him what we think was going on.

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  Did you think that something anomalous was recovered from the deck?

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. I do.

• 1:28:50Speaker 02

  Wow. So this is fascinating, and I love that you're saying this because you have the authority to say it. And there are a bunch of other people who are weighing in, and they're like, it's the instrumentation pod, or it's the booster, or whatever.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, there was that. There was, there were, there were those.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  But then, but you have to line up, there's, there's other elements of that recovery operation that are very anomalous. And then, and then, then some things that aren't even in the deck log. That, that you could tell that they should have been cited and weren't because we know the history, he went and researched the history. Why didn't they put that in the deck log? There's a personnel transfer of divers to one ship to the other. Yeah.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  This is fascinating.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  So I, I, let me, let me draw back. I can't say a hundred percent because I didn't see the object.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  But that, there was some, there was a highly unusual operation that occurred, and some of it was not recorded.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  I think so, too.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because there's, there's a section where they're, when they do make this first recovery attempt, they're doing all these engine orders. And, and, and if I recall, I have to go look at the report again, but, and they were laying out all this anchor line. Okay, that was, that was, that was, now I remember. They laid out all this anchor line. Where previously, when they anchored, they only laid out a little bit because they were, they were going to pull up the hook, as they call it, very soon after. So there's no need to set out a lot, along, a lot of anchor line if you're going to move the next day. But there's this, there's this portion where they laid out a ton of shot, that's the term that you say. Because they were going to do something that was going to be really heavy lifting.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  You know, spending time with Harold, that guy wasn't alive.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there you go. No, no, he has nothing, he had nothing to gain at that point in his life.

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  Nothing to gain, nothing to gain.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  I'm glad, and it was so sweet of Pippa to be with him and have, that was a great interview.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Thank you. Well, he was, he was amazing. And, you know, he's just an incredible guy. How do we get back to the future when it comes to our oceans? Because I think about the 50s, 60s, 70s, and you had SeaLab. And you had, you know, and then you had this unfortunate death on SeaLab, but you had this idea of aquanauts. You know, now, we think of just astronauts. Are we getting there?

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  First off, there's a cool thing about SeaLab.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  I happen, and this is in my book, too, I happened to be at Stennis Space Center, that's where my command was stationed. And, you know, that's the nature of NASA stations is you often have multi-uses. So you have some Navy units, maybe you have, there was actually a Navy SEAL unit there, too. But, and so we were there, and they had some special event one day that I went to, and it involved some of the Mercury astronauts giving a small talk. Because they were on a roadshow to promote some, some NASA space-related education initiative. And so a big auditorium full of the three astronauts, it was Wally Sharaw, Gordon Cooper, and Scott Carpenter.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Heroes here, and I had a chance to hear them speak. And then the audience, of course, asked all the normal questions about space, a lot of high school kids there. And, and so, what's it like to be an astronaut, and zero gravity, and how do you go to the bathroom, and all those things? Little kids do that. I got up and I asked Scott Carpenter, I said, because he'd been at SeaLab. He was the only guy, one of the few people who'd been an astronaut and an aquanaut. And so I asked him, how do you compare the two? And he said, he said, oh, going up in space is just glorious. It's, you're shot on the end of a rocket, you get up there and everything's bright and beautiful. And, and you come back and, you know, after not very long, and it's just the most amazing experience of your lifetime.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  And, and then he paused and he said, well, but when you go in the ocean, things are really hard, and they break, and it's cold. So he had nothing good about it. He was just, it was a lot of challenges. And, and I don't know when the death occurred, but, yeah. And I know this from my wife, being a diver, the ocean is a very hard environment to operate in. And, and it's funny because I left that meeting going, how funny, or ironic, that, remember Kennedy gave his big speech at Rice University?

• 1:33:04Speaker 14

  We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And here is, here is Scott Carpenter telling me that operating in space is a cakewalk, but going in the ocean's another story. Which I know to be true from Victor's expedition, because he actually got it all documented on the Discovery Channel series. And things break, and, and comms, you lose comms, and all this. So at any rate, though, technology is allowing us to move beyond that. And I actually have advised a new company called DEEP. That's just their name. And they're building an ocean habitat. It's already deployed in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which is like an underwater national park that NOAA manages. And, and so this is, they just installed it. And their chief scientist is a wonderful woman named Dawn Kornegus.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  And she's already, I think she's already dived the habitat, and so my goal is to go dive that habitat soon.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that, that's there. There's another one. I gave a talk last year at EarthX, an environmental conference. And I did a fireside chat, like we're doing here with NASA, former NASA astronaut called, named, named. Dr. Scott Peresinski is an MD, and he was the head spacewalker for NASA for a while. And he now is an advisor for a new company. And the name escapes me, I think it's Proteus, and it's one of the Casto sons that founded it, and they're building ocean habitats, too. So when you think about those and the fact that new technologies like autonomy, robots, robotics are advancing so rapidly.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  And look at, look at what Victor did. We're going to see more and more of this.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  I'm so excited because we're, we've mapped more of the moon and Mars than we have our own planet, isn't that right?

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Right. And that's another thread, take us down, about undersea UAP. That, that, yes, we know not only more of the seabed, or pardon me, that we've mapped the moon, the surfaces of moon and Mars to a higher resolution than our seabed. We've only mapped 27% of the seafloor to modern standards. That's so much territory. And then, and it's 70% of the planet. And so, and then we've only explored with, with drifters, floats, and drones about 10% of, and ROVs, 10% of the ocean volume.

• 1:35:29Speaker 02

  So this could be an answer to the Fermi paradox.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, where is everybody? Exactly. They're in the ocean is where they are.

• 1:35:34Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  And, and we know the, they, UAP, whatever's controlling it, they're, they're elusive. They are not just showing up and announcing themselves. And so the, that fact, and the, the large territory of the ocean that we know nothing about, really points in the direction that that's, that's probably where they are.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fellow UAP White House advisor, Kevin Knuth.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  He has a great theory about.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Quick correction.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, go for it.

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  We're not, we're not reporting to the White House.

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  We, we report to the ODNI.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  Okay, got it.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Of course, the White House, as the White House does, you know, the Department of War reports to the NSC. And so, and then they, they're both, NSC is a White House body, ODNI supports the White House and reports to the White House. So we have that layer there.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay. Yeah, good, good correction. He talks about water worlds. And basically planets that have water as being like the perfect kind of Goldilocks zone. Because obviously you have phase transitions, you have, you know, solid, liquid, gas, plasma. And so if you can have a liquid form of water, it's like an indication that you're in some sort of Goldilocks zone.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  And so you have Mars is way too cold, you have Venus is way too hot, as an example. So we're the, you know, this perfect sort of third planet distance away from the, from the sun. And so if you have other water worlds, maybe that's where you'd have this Kharteshv four-scale civilization that is really advanced. And so maybe, you know, if there is kind of an interstellar highway, the, the kind of connective thread as to where they camp out on different planets is they would camp out in water worlds.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  There's a, of course, they're not, not so habitable, but the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, Enceladus and Europa. They're, I think.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Hypothesize to have ocean interiors with ice, ice exteriors.

• 1:37:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  And so NASA has been working to build capabilities that, that actually funded some of our work to, what the goal is to basically land on the surface and then punch a hole and send in a remotely operated vehicle. And so some of our NOAA ROV work, we have an exploration ship called the Oceanos Explorer. We, I think NASA supported to, to advance that technology that they could eventually apply for missions to those moons.

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  That would be amazing. That's so cool.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  What's cool about, about that is, um, what kind of related, uh, is that NASA astronauts all train in Houston, in the, one of the largest pools in the world. It's called the Neutral Buoyancy Lab.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Have you ever heard of it?

• 1:38:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  It's so cool.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah. And so basically they all wear their space gear in this pool to simulate neutral buoyancy, gravity free. And, uh, and so what's neat about that is now in my, my, my whole past government work, I, uh, I've been working for companies and the, the prime contractor for that company, that, uh, that facility, the Neutral Buoyancy Lab is, is a, um, is a company called Rothi. And they, they're going public and they wanted me to come on their board. And so I got to go down there and check out that, that whole awesome setup. And they have a whole team of divers that support the astronauts. So sooner or later, they're gonna have a VIP diving day and my wife and I are gonna go down and get on a scuba and go dive that tank with astronauts.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  Wow. That's amazing.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  Anyways, all the kind of related stuff there.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  Speaking of, you know, maybe geothermal pockets that are habitable within ice. Do you think that anything might be residing in Antarctica that we're not aware of?

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's, isn't there, there's a lot about that possibility. Uh, and I think who was, someone thought that Admiral Byrd had some encounter when he was down there?

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of legend there.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  I know nothing of that. I have friends who worked in Antarctica, I have friends, NOAA friends, who previously had been ice divers down there. And then I have a, another colleague who's a very accomplished underwater photographer named, um, Becky Schott. And she is, uh, does expeditions down there all the time and is a very accomplished diver, ice diver. There's nobody I know who's been down there and there are many, uh, have, have seen anything. I've heard the reports, but right now I don't have any data or.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  Just legends for now.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  But, um, your, your wife is a remote viewer. Is that right? She just finished this Paul Smith training?

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  Yes. Okay. This, this is a good line of, of inquiry because like mainstream science, as we alluded to before. Uh, I don't know how it, how it has been, but, but in mainstream science, uh, consciousness has not been treated as it should be, right? And, and the idea of all these aspects of consciousness, like out of body experiences, near death experiences. Uh, and, and the, the survival of human consciousness after death, right? After death. So, uh, and the, and, and other related, uh, characteristics phenomena like telepathy. And so, uh, I, I, just like UAP, stigmatized, that nothing there, there, it's not real, it's not scientific.

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  Well, what we're seeing now is whether it be the scientific study or, uh, like with the division of perceptual studies at University of Virginia, do you know that?

• 1:41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Those people, those fine people, those scientists or Diane Hennessy Powell and her work with autistic patients. How about that? Did you, did you have her on your show?

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I've had her on.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  She talks about the conversations these autistic kids have together.

• 1:41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they commune on, on, on a hill.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  Uh, uh, almost like, um, meeting station, but in like, you know, some like mental etheric form or something. It's amazing.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  Right. Yes. So there, that is all real, right? It's documented. This, this is a real phenomenon. And now it's taking it to the applied level.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  Uh, uh, in this case of remote viewing. First off, Hal Pudoff is a good friend and colleague of mine and he, he's shared extensively about his experience with that, the Stargate program. And then one of the Stargate programs, I believe founders was Paul Smith or Elise, who was the army guy. And, and now he's, he's taken that further. He's written a manual on remote viewing and it's all about, uh, have you ever remote viewed?

• 1:42:06Speaker 02

  No, I'm never remote viewed.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  You, you learn a protocol, like, like so many, uh, I guess just experiences or methods. There, there's a way to basically like tap into that, that, that knowledge, which is out there. All knowledge is somehow interconnected. And so Karen has taken one basic course and then she just finished the advanced course. She actually went to his place in Cedar City, Utah and, and did, she's really good, by the way. And so what happens is they'll, they'll give you a, the facilitator gives you a, a target, basically a set of pictures with a grid coordinate of somewhere, a facility, a natural formation, whatever. And then, so he's got this target in mind.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  And then, uh, I guess what all he does is reveal to the viewer the, the coordinates of it. And this is a protocol that started out at Stargate and they did it, kind of worked it over time with really talented remote viewers like Ingo Swan.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, and Joe McMonigal, one of your guests, yes?

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Love him.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, he's brilliant. And, and so Karen took, took it all and she, and it works. It's really remarkable because she'll, okay, she'll, and you go through a set of things where you sort of basically clear your mind. And then, then sometimes now your, your mind is always, when you're getting a perception, this is perception, uh, of something. Your, your mind will automatically want to make sense of it. Okay. If you're, if you're seeing, for example, um, like a wooden tone or something, you're gonna go, okay. You're gonna build a table right there in your mind. You do that. You make a mental model. And they, they're in the protocol, you, you learn to recognize when your mind is doing that and you shut it off. Okay. And they call it analytical overlay. You know about it?

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay. There you go.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  And so Karen's, she's, I won't say she's mastered this, but she's taken, done this for two years now and she's really good.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  And he's, he has nailed these targets he's gotten to her where she'll just start drawing it out. She'll start naming all the, all the, um, kind of associations you're getting, whether the shape, the color, the, the texture. She'll, so she'll start with words and then she'll start drawing aspects of it. And I even participated in an experiment and I, there are instances where I, I got the targets spot on. And so I, I even toyed with it. I was part of their little experiment with the group. And, uh, so she, and she's gotten them right on the money. And these aren't things you can make up. It'd be, one of her targets was this really cool geological formation in a national park. And she drew, she drew them just to a T.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  You know, it wasn't, it wasn't Disneyland, you know, it wasn't the space station. It was that. And she drew exactly that.

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 1:44:50Speaker 01

  Uh, she's done it multiple times. Yeah.

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  So that, that, this whole thing, consciousness studies, I, I, I, I hope as UAP may be becoming, that more of our, and especially this, because more of our society that accepts this nature of humanity, this, this true, the truth, the real nature of humanity. There's so much we can do with that. Uh, uh, uh, human potential is so held back by our not accepting the full, uh, uh, possibilities of our consciousness and, and, um, and can, human connection.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like all the UFO infighting.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Speaker 01

  If you, once you really get to understand the nature of your mind and other, and connecting with other minds, maybe all that'll stop.

• 1:45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. And I mean, that's on the line, right? It's like, uh, the nature of consciousness and the nature of reality and, and, and truth about metaphysics and stuff. And.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  You know what is a great book?

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  What's a great book?

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Have you read Dan Brown's Secret of Secrets?

• 1:45:50Speaker 02

  You know, uh, Brandon Fugel, just, he was just on the show and he just brought that up.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  It's, if you care about this topic, we, he has mastered the story. It's a great storyline too, by the way. But, uh, he goes into all of this.

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  You will be, if you're on the fence about this, this nature of consciousness, you, I would think you will be a firm, not, you won't believe, you will know when you finish reading this book.

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  I can't wait to read it.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. It's good. Yeah.

• 1:46:17Speaker 02

  That's amazing. He's so, I would love to interview him. I think he lives in New Hampshire or somewhere in the northeast. Yeah. Just an amazing, I mean, I've read Angels and Demons and the Da Vinci Code and stuff. He's amazing.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  He's really incredible. Do you ever use remote viewing like daily life or like decision making or any?

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  Well, no, uh, cause again, I, you have to be disciplined about the protocol to, it's just a, there's an aspect of how your mind works. It's very hard to filter out. Uh, and so, um, and I, I've just not practiced it enough. However, though, and intuition, so we're very related. Okay. When you, and, and you also, you also, at the beginning, we all talked about intention.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  You did. And I, I, I, I think that's a really important part of this conversation that when your intention's good and positive, I think then, then I think your mind for some reason is. It's more accessible. Your consciousness is expanded in a way when you have good intentions.

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  I think so too. I think that's the secret of all of this whole topic is it unlocks for you when you have really pure intentions. And when you're seeking truth and you don't have ulterior motives, you know, I think good things happen.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  They do. And my life is an example of that where, and I actually, again, my book, there's a lot of stories I have in this about it's better to be lucky than good.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  And, but it's really about having pure positive intention. Whenever I've had that, good things happen, great things happen. It was about my going to the Naval Academy really quickly. So there's a whole story in there. I shouldn't have gone in, but I wanted to study the ocean and I wanted to serve my country. And what happened, you like stories, so you're a storyteller.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  So I, so I was, I wanted to do this from an early age and, and I, and I kind of misguided, but I also wanted to get a PhD from Scripps and I, I learned that the Naval Academy had one scholarship to Scripps. And I thought, okay, I want to study the ocean. It's got a pathway to Scripps, Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California, where Woods Hole, the top two oceanographic schools in the country, the world. So I wanted that. And I, I, I go to the academy, I show up on the very first day and they take all the physical tests you took before to get in. And so I retake them and I get to this color vision test. Have you ever taken a color vision test?

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  I don't think I have.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  So in the Navy, you get tested for everything. And so color vision test is called the Ishihara test, named after a certain scientist, I guess, doctor and a physician. And he, this test consists of a circular grouping of, of, of basically dots, colored dots. And the dots are in different colors and they all make out a number, 10, 12, 7, 8. But you can always see the orange 8 in the green or reds background, right? Okay. So, and this is, this is, this is to test you for a very common genetic trait of colored effectiveness in men. Some women, but mostly men have it. And

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  there are a lot of people in the population have it. I don't know the number, but it's not small. And so, but unfortunately that disqualifies you from naval service because in naval service, you need to be able to see green and red very clearly because those are the lights, navigation lights on ships. So when you go on, or aircraft, and so if you can't understand the lights on a ship, you're not going to know the configuration. You could potentially have problems navigating. It's really a strict requirement. I go take that test on the day, my first day at the academy, July 2nd, 1985, and I failed that test. And the corpsman administering it said, and we're all getting back to pure intention. Okay. He said, whoa, how would you even get accepted here? Go to the side, we're going to report you, you're going to, you're going to be gone. And oh my

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  gosh. So I go to my, I tell my dad and, and the swim coach who recruited me, oh no. And they run around and go off and, and ultimately I, I take a wait and what happens behind the scenes is the, I was the fastest 500 freestyler in the country in, for prep schools in, in that year.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  So I was recruited heavily and the coach found out and he reported it to the athletic director and they decided to give me something they'd never done before. A waiver letter that I signed acknowledging that I couldn't go to the traditional line officer specialties, surface, aircraft pilot, submarine, that I could only, when I graduate, do restricted work that involved either intelligence, medical, or oceanography. So it's what I wanted and it was actually given to me even though I shouldn't even gotten in.

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  And they accept me, I go in and here I am. I should never even gone. And I did, and I followed the exact path I wanted to follow. So, and I was, and I was, and there's, this is not even the only time in my book where I talk about this, where I had good intention and I should never have gotten it. But some, and somehow I think that was it, is I wanted a good path and, and the universe opened it up for me.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  Well, that's a beautiful thing. What's the most precarious situation you've ever been in in the Navy?

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Okay, good. So there's the Navy, no doubt, and I tell this story too. I was, I was on an aircraft carrier and I was, my job was the officer of the deck. So I was in charge, I was a ship's oceanographer, but I had a division of aerographers mates that predicted weather. And I didn't really need to step in that much. So I, I became a deck watch officer. So I was in charge of the ship for two four hour stretches a day, directing all movements, right, left, ahead, slow down, launch aircraft, recover aircraft, don't, don't, don't launch aircraft, don't recover aircraft, giving all the orders for this aircraft carrier in two combat operations. And during freedom, when we first flew strikes into Afghanistan, I came at the tail end of that. And then we did all the strikes into

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Iraq in 2003 during Iraqi freedom. So big, high stress job. And at one point, we were going to the Persian Gulf for Iraqi freedom. We're going through the Strait of Malacca. And when you do that, you're, I'm driving the aircraft carrier, you're, you're 100 feet off the waterline, you're, you're way up there. And we, narrow waterway, because the USS Cole had been bombed a few years before, we were really wary of any terrorist attacks. So we'd launched our helicopters, that was the protocol, with 50 cal machine guns, and they were basically patrolling for any small boats that would try to attack us. And, and so the, we're driving, I have a destroyer who's about

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  1,000 yards on my port bow, headed me to the, to the port. And she was the USS Curtis Wilbur. And, and so we, and we have a strike group commander embark and he gives all the orders to the strike group. So I'm driving the ship, the aircraft carrier, the Kitty Hawk. And, and they, they give the order for the Curtis Wilbur. So we launched the helicopters to watch out for terrorists. And because we launched helicopters, when there's anything, any aircraft in the air, we need to have what they call a plane guard, a ship to go behind us in case someone crashes and they can recover the pilot. So they give the order, Curtis Wilbur, go take plane guard off the Kitty Hawk's stern,

• 1:53:49Speaker 01

  you know, at such, in such a distance. And what normally should have happened is I'm driving, he's, she's ahead of me and she should have just peeled off to port. It would have been an easy day and she would just slow down and take station behind me. She ended up turning to starboard. And, and she was so close and it happened so quickly that as she turned to starboard, the, the flight deck ahead of me, there's basically an 800 foot shadow zone of seawater that I can't see.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  And her bow basically disappeared, right? Like in that shadow zone. That's how close she was. I'm, I'm going 12 knots or so and, and I, and immediately, of course, I do everything I'm supposed to do. I yell out, right hard rudder, all engines head flank to just basically make me do that, sound the collision alarm and announce brace for shock. And, and then, and then, you know, this happens when people get in these situations, time just totally slowed down for me. And I remember having all these thoughts. I thought, oh my God, we are going to cut that ship in half and there's nothing I can do about it. And, and that, that would have been, that would have, it

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  would, likely would have sunk. We would have had at least 200 people killed, probably more. All sailors dying, very horrible deaths. I mean, fires, sinking, it was just the worst image I've ever seen in my life mentally. And then I thought, oh my God, we're going to get hit and, and we're going to probably end up having some, some water come in and damage control necessary, where we called general quarters and I called general quarters and then fires would break out. My sailors might be fighting those fires actually, and some of our sailors might get killed. All these things flooded my mind before, you know, that, in that one second. And thank God, the ship did

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  the right thing at the right time and shifted a rudder and she just barely avoided us. Of course, the captain's on the phone with the admiral and every, you know, every big swirl of activity there afterwards. But that, that was, that was the most precarious thing. And there was really nothing I could do. It was just because we were in that close quarters maneuvering in a straight. Yeah. But.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  That's intense.

• 1:56:04Speaker 01

  Also, all I can tell you is I am, I have been blessed. In this book, I talk about these times where. Challenging situations, again, working for Trump, and it worked out. We achieved good, thankfully, the alternative didn't occur. And I just feel like I've had this very gifted life, and that's why I wanted to tell my story.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  That's beautiful. Well, don't ask questions. Keep riding the wave.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  Actually, you're right about that, because as we talked about, there's some exciting possibilities ahead for us, for humanity, and I'm excited to contribute to that.

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think you are contributing to it, and everybody go buy the book, Holding Fast in the Heavy Seas. And I'm just really honored.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Oh, by the way, Victor wrote an endorsement.

• 1:56:53Speaker 02

  Oh, did he? Oh, cool.

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  I gotta tell you, I'm blessed. I have some great endorsements. Victor wrote one. One of my favorite ocean authors. So as we talk about the oceans in UAP, if anybody, any of your listeners, viewers, like the ocean, they should read any of the books by the top line endorser, Susan Casey. She's this really brilliant writer, New York Times bestseller multiple times, has a latest book about undersea exploration called The Underworld. She's written a book about waves called The Wave. She goes and rides a jet ski with Laird Hamilton into the lineup at Pe'ahie, you know, Jaws.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's some good, that's a great book. And she has a book about dolphins called Voices in the Ocean. And another really cool book, I talked about NOAA having national marine sanctuaries or underwater national parks. She wrote a book about the sanctuary in the Farallon Islands off of San Francisco, and all their history about the great white shark population that lives there.

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  Wow. She sounds amazing.

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  It's called Devil's Teeth.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  Devil's Teeth.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  And she always goes in the field for all of her work. So you know what? By the way, so her book about exploration of the ocean called The Underworld, she goes and dives the Marianas Trench with Victor.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  Wow. Shout out to Susan Casey.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Susan Casey is, yeah.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  A legend.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  She is. She's brilliant.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  Getting that endorsement is just such an honor for me.

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Can I ask you a final question?

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  If you were an alien civilization, where would you hide out under the ocean? What principles would you use?

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  I don't have to be an alien to want to be in the ocean.

• 1:58:35Speaker 02

  Fair enough.

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  I told you that. That was my whole career.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're already into it.

• 1:58:38Speaker 01

  Well, in fact, in fact, that's it. I'm so lucky now. Me and my wife dive the world because I'm not in the government anymore and we have time. So we just finished diving the Blue Hole in Belize.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Which is this really cool feature. We did it with our daughters, and we also did Iron Bottom Sound off Guadalcanal. Have you ever heard of that?

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:58:58Speaker 01

  Naval history.

• 1:58:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Okay, so in 1942, this was a real precarious, use that word again, time in World War II when

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  it was the first time after Midway, the Battle of Midway, that we went on the offensive. And we decided to take a Japanese airfield in the Solomon Islands, and it was on this island called Guadalcanal. It was this obscure area, but it was kind of that point where we, basically, we in Japan met halfway. They were advancing, we were going on the offensive, and it was the place to take hold of an airfield. And then from there, we launched the island hopping campaign that assured us victory. So in 1942, there was this place where there was almost a year of continuous naval action, ships, sinking ships. And there's so many shipwrecks in this little area off of Guadalcanal. They call it Iron Bottom Sound.

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so my wife and I went and dived there.

• 1:59:53Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  On some of the wrecks there. That was phenomenal.

• 1:59:55Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 1:59:56Speaker 01

  I'm not sure what's next. Oh, I knew, we're going to Bermuda. So Bermuda Triangle, we're going to dive the Bermuda Triangle.

• 2:00:02Speaker 02

  Do you think there's something to the Bermuda Triangle legends of electromagnetic anomalies and flights going missing and that sort of thing?

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  There's data, there's evidence of anomalies.

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  So let's tie this all together now.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  Undersea bases, possibly, right? We know five to seven locations.

• 2:00:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:00:22Speaker 01

  We have anomalies like at the ranch.

• 2:00:26Speaker 01

  Bermuda Triangle.

• 2:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:28Speaker 01

  Who knows? I'm going to be sailing through it with my family on a cruise ship.

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  And then we're going to dive off Bermuda, scuba dives. I'll let you know what we find.

• 2:00:36Speaker 02

  Oh, you're going to have a blast. Well, keep with the proper intentions.

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 2:00:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And wow, that'll be a lot of fun. And yeah, it's just been an honor. I really appreciate it, Admiral. This has been a long time coming for me. I've followed your work for many years now in the UAP topic, but obviously you have this illustrious career, you know, behind that, where you're adding your credentials to this kind of frontier, and I'm just really grateful for you coming.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Hey, I am grateful to be here, Jesse, and I'm just, I'm honored and delighted to be a fellow seeker of truth with you.

• 2:01:09Speaker 02

  Oh, there you go.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Head to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com to grab official American Alchemy merch and support the show directly. And while you're there, the Cowboy UFO T is a fan favorite we always keep in stock, along with the Atomic Age design. Thank you all so much for following and supporting the show.