Pod Insights American Alchemy BREAKING: New Scans Show Massive Structures Under the Pyramids About this episode Our American Alchemist this week are Filippo Biondi and Geoffrey Drumm.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
9:12 The Science of Scanning
19:53 Challenging Conventional Theories
27:55 Water as a Key Element
30:51 The Sphinx and Its Significance
31:15 Rewriting History
33:31 Decoding Tomographic Data
35:50 Future of Scanning Technology
1:11:52 New Discoveries Await
1:23:46 Archaeological Discoveries Beneath the Pyramid
1:25:12 Limitations of Tomographic Detection
1:28:32 The Challenge of Background Noise
1:30:17 Commercial Applications of Scanning Technology
1:31:38 Hidden Metal Deposits in the Giza Plateau
1:36:45 Discovering New Passages
1:40:49 Advances in Scanning Technology
1:46:54 Addressing Skepticism in Archaeology
1:50:32 The Role of Patents in Innovation
1:55:33 Understanding Cosmic Rays and Muons
2:08:10 The Complexity of Data Interpretation
2:12:44 Comparing Detected Structures
2:18:48 Misinterpretations of Archaeological Data
2:21:20 Engaging with Experts in the Field
2:30:41 New Discoveries Inside the Pyramid
2:40:08 Visualizing the 3D Model of the Pyramid
2:43:52 Below the Queen's Chamber
2:47:11 Detecting the Grand Gallery
2:53:50 Scanning Modern Structures
3:08:49 Proving Concepts at the Mosul Dam
3:16:55 Investigating the Osiris Shaft
3:22:25 The Challenge of Limestone
3:32:20 Exploring Hydrothermal Vents
4:06:55 Mining and Metallurgy at Giza
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Transcript 37,213 words · 3 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Jesse Michels? This is the best technology that can scan inside of the Great Pyramid that are undiscovered features. Do any of these structures that they're interpreting fly in the face of what conventional archaeology would think exists inside the pyramids? All of it. All of it. All of it.
0:20 Speaker 01 There is also electricity inside this.
0:23 Jesse Michels? Fossilized lightning through these iron veins. What is creating the lack of signature here?
0:35 Speaker 01 There is something. I can't disclose it now.
0:38 Jesse Michels? Interesting.
0:41 Jesse Michels? Each pyramid is producing a specific chemical, and the sequence of these chemicals transforms one product into the next product into the next product. Industrial-scale chemical manufacturing. If we do have tubular structures, pillars, with coils wrapping around them that go a kilometer deep, with a foundation underneath them, that's insane. That's huge. Correct, yeah, and it's something that needs to be addressed.
1:08 Jesse Michels? Because there's no physical way that these could possibly have been built.
1:14 Jesse Michels? Period. Then I'm going with aliens. Like, how do we explain that? For over 4,000 years, the pyramids of Egypt have stood as some of the most extraordinary structures ever built by human hands.
1:31 Jesse Michels? The Great Pyramid of Khufu on the Giza Plateau contains roughly 2.3 million stone blocks, some weighing as much as 70 tons, arranged with a precision that still astonishes engineers today. The first and most obvious question everyone asks is how these insanely large, sophisticated, and astronomically-aligned structures were built in ancient times, before modern civil engineering. Archaeologists and historians have proposed several main theories.
2:04 Jesse Michels? French architect Jean-Pierre Houdin suggests that an internal ramp spiraling within the pyramid's structure itself carried the blocks. This is an idea that gained renewed interest after the Scanned Pyramids project detected unexplained voids inside the Great Pyramid. Other proposals involve lever systems, counterweights, and complex lifting techniques hinted at by ancient historians like Herodotus. And then, of course, you have the Atlantean acoustic levitation crowd. Always a good time, and I can't hate on them. But the point is, all of these theories have serious issues with them and are incredibly speculative. And there's another, even more simple question we take for granted, and one that's probably even more interesting when it comes to the pyramids.
2:49 Jesse Michels? Why were they built in the first place? The most widely accepted explanation is the royal tomb theory. Most Egyptologists believe the Great Pyramid was built for the pharaoh Khufu around 2,500 B.C. as part of a massive funerary complex designed to help the king ascend to the afterlife. And the Pyramid of Khafra was, of course, built for the tomb of Pharaoh Khafra, Khufu's son. But no confirmed mummies or tombs of Khufu or Khafra have ever been found inside of the pyramids. And the interior chambers themselves are surprisingly bare. And so, in the last few decades, some very alternative ideas have emerged for what the pyramid's true purpose may have been.
3:34 Jesse Michels? One of the most famous of these comes from former aerospace engineer and Joe Rogan guest Christopher Dunn. Dunn proposed that the Great Pyramid might have functioned as an ancient energy machine. In his view, the pyramid's internal chambers, granite structures, and resonant geometry may have all worked together to generate power, possibly through vibrations interacting with quartz crystals inside the stone. Researcher Jeffrey Drum, who runs the amazing Land of Chem YouTube channel, believes the pyramids weren't producing electricity at all. They were harnessing atmospheric electricity and producing hydrogen gas and ammonium-based
4:15 Jesse Michels? compounds essential for metalworking and agriculture, something ancient civilizations needed.
4:21 Speaker 02 And my hypothesis for the function of the Great Pyramid is that the hydrogen sulfide gas coming from this subterranean karst cave and tunnel system is the initial reactant in the chemical manufacturing sequence within the Great Pyramid.
4:37 Jesse Michels? According to Drum, different chambers inside the pyramid could have served as reaction vessels where chemicals like zinc and acid interacted, generating hydrogen through controlled reactions. These fascinating open questions, how and why the pyramids got built, became infinitely weirder in 2022. That's when a small team of researchers, led by Italian radar specialist Filippo Biondi and his engineering colleague Corrado Malanga, made one of the boldest claims in the last century involving ancient archaeology. Using a technique called synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography, applied to satellite
5:17 Jesse Michels? data, they claimed to have detected eight enormous cylindrical tubular structures going beneath the Giza Plateau. Possibly including large vertical shafts and chamber-like formations extending hundreds of meters below the pyramids themselves.
5:35 Speaker 01 We are counting at the moment four plus four cubes that are descending underneath, and they are connecting the top, so the base of the pyramid, to something that is located at the bottom.
5:50 Jesse Michels? So tonight on American Alchemy, we are hosting a historic roundtable discussion between Jeffrey and none other than Filippo Biondi himself, the man who conducted the scans and created the method that derived the images of these large columns below the pyramids. The result was probably the deepest conversation that's ever been had on the structure and purpose of the pyramids, and the vast complex of subterranean structures that might lie beneath them.
6:19 Jesse Michels? Modern disclosure might not involve modern technology, but rather ancient technology hidden in plain sight. Without further ado, probably the two best guests I could think of to explore the birthplace of alchemy itself, ancient Egypt, please welcome this week's American Alchemists, Jeffrey Drum and Filippo Biondi.
6:40 Speaker 01 Ignition sequence five.
6:44 Speaker 01 How is this possible?
6:46 Speaker 02 Nothing new in the future about that.
6:50 Speaker 01 Existence cannot longer be denied.
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9:12 Jesse Michels? I'm here with Filippo Biondi, round two with him, and I have brought in an amazing co-interviewer, Jeffrey Drum, who I've become a recent big fan of.
9:23 Speaker 02 Thanks, sir.
9:23 Jesse Michels? And I just can't wait enough for this conversation. I'm really excited to dive into this because Filippo, as we all know at this point, has, through synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography, he's a scientist, he's a data scientist, 30 years, PhD, who with his own method, the Biondi method, has basically figured out through these tomography scans, he's derived what he says looks like these eight, four plus four tubular structures with coils wrapping around them underneath the pyramids, not only actually underneath the pyramids, underneath some other structures as well. So it's kind of a bombshell finding.
10:03 Jesse Michels? Obviously, it is also a really amazing meme that like took off on the internet. And Jeffrey, more recently, I've become a huge fan of just because he's so rigorous and I don't know too many people who have a step-by-step thesis as to what the pyramids, actually, their function is. You know, it really, it's, you're kind of in a league of your own. And so, you know.
10:30 Speaker 02 I appreciate that. That's a huge vote of confidence.
10:33 Jesse Michels? No, I mean, I mean, it's you and Christopher Dunn. And so.
10:36 Speaker 02 Sure.
10:36 Jesse Michels? I'm excited to have you here because I think you can ask Filippo questions that I cannot.
10:42 Speaker 02 Yes.
10:42 Jesse Michels? I think I probably accept a lot of things at face value. And so I'm really excited to host this discussion.
10:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:49 Jesse Michels? And thank you both for being here.
10:50 Speaker 01 Thank you. Thank you very much for your invitation.
10:53 Jesse Michels? So as far as kicking things off, why don't we just go over the core findings just for the audiences kind of context? So what are we talking about here when it comes to these synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography scans? And if you could go into the method as specifically as possible, that would be very helpful.
11:10 Speaker 01 Yes, the the the method is relatively new and not so, um, let's say, um, diffused by the other colleagues, colleagues of mine. But someone I am, I know that is replicating the experiment. So I am very happy about this.
11:36 Speaker 01 Essentially, I work, I worked a lot of years, maybe, I'm maybe thirty years on radar and twenty years on radars installed on satellites.
11:52 Speaker 01 Synthetic aperture radar is an equipment that synthetizes synthetic, so synthetizes a so-called integration time along the orbit in order to have azimuth resolution, very high azimuth resolution. So it is very important for civilian application and other applications. Today is state of the art because it recasts also in the commercial activities because there are all the companies that, American companies and also European companies that are building their own satellites.
12:31 Speaker 01 They launch, launch the satellites in the, in the sky, in the space, I'm sorry, and they sell, they sell data. So it is, it is very simple to find synthetic virtual radar data. And what we do is we reprocess this data in order to, and this is the core of our method.
12:56 Speaker 01 In order to retrieve the the superficial vibration of the earth. This superficial vibration, we have to consider it, we have to consider this vibration like the the waves that we can observe on on the border of the swimming pool. So those kind of waves contains all the information that it is that that it is given by the underground, the underneath, the underground. So we do like that, we estimate the vibration and then we we we do, we make, we perform algorithms that are able to retrieve tomography.
13:38 Speaker 01 Tomography is, Thomas is, we look inside.
13:43 Jesse Michels? It's slicing of the interior.
13:45 Speaker 01 When we use acoustics, because acoustics in the in the acoustics are very important because they propagate only only matter.
13:56 Jesse Michels? Yep.
13:57 Speaker 01 And we use as a carrier the light.
13:59 Jesse Michels? Yep.
14:00 Speaker 01 Because in this space, we don't have matter, we have, but we don't have matter. And we use the the light. It means the radio frequency in the 10 gigahertz, in the in the 10 gigahertz central frequency, so light, to carry the information of the vibrations.
14:22 Jesse Michels? Hmm, right. So basically, you have synthetic aperture radar, which is a tried and true method. Nobody's arguing with, you know, synthetic aperture radar being effective. You have companies like Ice, Ice Eye, you know, Umbra, Capella Space that work off this method. They use it for defense and commercial purposes. It's basically a higher resolution radar. And then I think the big update here is the Doppler tomography. And then the other update is you're getting these tomography scans and you have software that is proprietary to you, right, Filippo?
14:54 Speaker 01 It's not mine, because we have, we have a patent that this this, now I I am also submitting a second patent.
15:03 Speaker 01 On the first planet, because I made some improvements of the technique. And so I'm in these days, we are submitting in United States.
15:13 Jesse Michels? So the two big updates are the Doppler tomography. And then you get the tomography scans and it's your interpretation of the tomography scans, which is kind of this unique thing to you. And so that has the world, you know, up in flames, the archaeological world, where you have, you know, people like Flint Dibble coming at you and saying, you know.
15:33 Speaker 01 What a nice guy.
15:36 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
15:36 Speaker 01 A little traveling.
15:37 Jesse Michels? Jeffrey really struck me as somebody who, you know, was asking, I think, one step level deeper questions than I could ask about this. And so I kind of want to, you know, just maybe defer defer to you here.
15:53 Speaker 02 Sure.
15:53 Jesse Michels? As far as, you know, what you think about these claims. Because on the face of them, you know, if we do have tubular structures, pillars with coils wrapping around them that go a kilometer deep with a foundation underneath them. That's insane. That's huge.
16:09 Speaker 02 Correct. Yeah. And it's something that needs to be addressed. So to preface sort of my perspective on the new SAR scans. My work focuses on a comprehensive overview of the function of the Egyptian pyramids. From the step pyramid, red pyramid, bent pyramid, great pyramid, central pyramid, final pyramid. And also encompasses ancient structures like stone circles, passage chamber reactors, Teotihuacan, Japanese pyramids, et cetera. And it's a comprehensive overview of the function of these structures with a basis on mechanisms of operation related to physics and chemistry. With the function of the Egyptian pyramids being for industrial scale chemical manufacturing, where each pyramid is producing a specific chemical.
16:53 Speaker 02 And the sequence of these chemicals transforms one product into the next product into the next product. So from my perspective, in interpreting and reverse engineering the function of the Egyptian pyramids, we have a known chamber configuration, which inherently any hypothesis on the function of the Egyptian pyramids has to specifically assess all of these specific components in the known configuration.
17:23 Speaker 02 So if there are new components, for example, a lot of people don't know that Filippo and the SAR team actually published their first paper back in 2020 when they scanned the Great Pyramid. And this paper did not get a lot of attention at the time. And I think a lot of people haven't gone back to look at your original research. And I'll also do my best to kind of summarize in layman's terms, how the BEYOND E protocol works in relation to the existing SAR satellite radar technology, because this is a conjunction of existing satellite technology with new software that's known as the BEYOND E protocol, that again is interpreting
18:07 Speaker 02 micro vibrations, which you term as phonons, as indicative of internal chambers within the structure. And we'll walk through this process. And I think the impetus for this, as you can see here on the screen, anybody who's watching, the organizers of the SAR team's first international conference was in Malta back in June of 2025. And the organizers of the conference were familiar with my work. Armando and Filippo were familiar with my work. And my wife and I, as you can see there, we had a, an absolutely spectacular time in Malta. It is gorgeous there. Such a fun conference. We got to meet everybody. And Filippo and I had a really engaging sort of question and
18:52 Speaker 02 answer process going on during this conference where that was really why I was invited by the organizers of the conference to come and ask questions based on my knowledge of the existing configuration. And Filippo, you're the man when it comes to SAR technology. And you are the creator of this BEYOND E protocol. So whether you like it or not, you're the only person that has the qualifications to answer these questions.
19:22 Speaker 01 Geoffrey, ask me the question.
19:24 Speaker 02 Yes, of course.
19:25 Speaker 01 If you can answer, we will.
19:26 Speaker 02 And I, right, right, yeah.
19:27 Jesse Michels? I want to say one day and then I'll defer to you, Geoffrey.
19:31 Speaker 01 I am here, Paul.
19:32 Jesse Michels? Because I do think it's important because a lot of people, you know, the information space and podcast world is not always the best. And I think a lot of people might Google or ChatGPT Synthetic Aperture Radar and get a quick, a quick debunk. Like, oh, you can't penetrate the earth with Synthetic Aperture Radar. And I do think it's important.
19:53 Speaker 01 That is ignorance.
19:54 Jesse Michels? Yeah, it is, it is. So I want, so this is really important that what you were saying is that there is a kind of photon-to-photon conversion. And that these microvibrations, just like you might be able to read the substructure underneath water through measuring the waves, translates to the electromagnetic radio waves that, you know, get translated to.
20:17 Speaker 02 Into the satellite.
20:17 Jesse Michels? Into the satellite. Exactly.
20:19 Speaker 01 But penetration is related only to the information, the entropy.
20:23 Jesse Michels? Yep.
20:23 Speaker 01 Which is the basic of, basics of information. I suggest everyone to read the mother paper of information, which is the paper of Shannon and.
20:35 Jesse Michels? Claude Shannon. He's the best. And, and also to back you up, there are other modalities, like there's something called cold atom sensing and, you know, gravitometry, which is non-invasive above the surface and you are measuring subsurface stuff. You aren't measuring it with perfect accuracy. So that's what's very important. And the reason I'm so excited to have you here is because I think a lot of the first order debunks, like the one I just mentioned, suck and are easy, they're ignorance, as you said. I think, and I don't even want to call it a debunk because it's a friendly conversation.
21:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
21:09 Jesse Michels? But you have thought of other kind of interesting ways to poke at, you know.
21:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's just objective questions.
21:17 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
21:18 Speaker 02 Out of fascination and interest for the work. And I think that's an important thing in science is when people with different opinions come together. It helps us get closer to the truth.
21:31 Speaker 01 Because diversity builds new things.
21:34 Speaker 02 Of course. And I will agree, there are absolutely things below the Giza Plateau that we do not understand. That are the impetus for the construction of the pyramids on the Giza Plateau. They chose the Giza Plateau for a very specific reason. There are very important resources below the Giza Plateau that are directly related to the function of the Egyptian pyramids. So we'll kind of get to that at the end, but let's, let's dive into this.
22:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
22:08 Speaker 02 Um, so that everybody can just kind of hear, I'm going to read briefly, just quoting the abstract of your first paper.
22:14 Speaker 01 Just, just to say, I remember in the last interview that I made with Jesse, when he came in Corciano, where I live. I said, I remember that I said, um, one thing in, in the Giza, uh, business, let's say business. There is a crucial material that is common in, in every, everything. So it's water.
22:38 Speaker 02 Yes.
22:39 Speaker 01 Water. I think that water is very important.
22:44 Speaker 02 I agree. Yes.
22:45 Speaker 01 In this business.
22:46 Speaker 02 Yeah. And for example, um, we've actually taken samples of the water in the Osiris shaft. And I had that tested in conjunction with an archaeological project that I'm a member of called the Osirion Seven Archaeological Mission in conjunction with Jim Westerman to investigate the source of the water within the Osirion. So they're doing testing of the water in the Osirion and hydrological evaluation of the Osirion to try to determine A, why and where the water in the reservoir comes from. And there's also intrusive water in one of the central recesses that we're also trying to determine the source of this water.
23:28 Speaker 02 I'm an official member of that archaeological project and I brought our water samples from the Osiris shaft to have tested in conjunction with the samples from them. And the Osiris shaft is brackish water.
23:42 Speaker 02 It's not freshwater and it's not seawater. It's brackish water.
23:46 Speaker 01 Okay.
23:47 Speaker 02 So brackish water is slightly salty water, not freshwater, not seawater.
23:53 Speaker 01 In Italian, it's called the san mastro.
23:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So partially saltwater.
23:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:57 Speaker 02 So there's a very independent aquifer located directly below the Osiris shaft that is not connected to the Nile River. So for example, the Nile is way, way back from the Giza Plateau. And because of the high Aswan Dam, there's no more flooding of the Nile River. So the water level inside of the Osiris shaft has not fluctuated since the time of its construction.
24:27 Speaker 02 So there's an independent aquifer located directly below the Osiris shaft. And that system was designed to tap into that aquifer at a very specific level at the bottom of the chamber, which is why the chamber is still filled with water at the bottom of the Osiris shaft today. So there's pockets of independent aquifers all over the Giza Plateau. And there's also subterranean flowing water, which.
24:52 Speaker 01 Ah, so that there is also subterranean.
24:56 Speaker 02 Moving water. Yeah, yeah. So there's actually pumps that have been installed near the Valley Temple.
25:05 Speaker 02 So the Kafrah Valley Temple near the Sphinx enclosure, um, the Egyptian government has installed pumps to try and pump this water out from below the Giza Plateau.
25:16 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
25:17 Speaker 02 So there's pumping stations at Giza where they've been pumping out this water from below the Giza Plateau, which is, there's a reason they're doing that.
25:28 Speaker 02 Back in the day, I used to chug coffee like I was prepping for a quantum jump. But then I'd crash like my nervous system got slingshotted through a kaleidoscope. Anxiety spiking, aura flickering and REM sleep.
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27:03 Speaker 02 It's from a sense of archaeological preservation, of course, which is the main justification for everything done in Egypt. We're trying to preserve the monuments. So we want to remove all the water.
27:15 Speaker 01 So they are, they, they, they installed pumps.
27:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:20 Speaker 01 Remove water.
27:20 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:21 Speaker 01 Because they already know that there are structures inside.
27:26 Speaker 02 Not necessarily that they know that there's structures, but it's more for the preservation of the pyramids on top.
27:34 Speaker 01 On top.
27:34 Speaker 02 To prevent more erosion from below. Because there is, and I'll get to this at the end of the conversation. They know for sure that there are caves and tunnels below Giza.
27:47 Speaker 01 There are a lot of caves.
27:48 Speaker 02 A lot of caves, which are natural geological features.
27:51 Speaker 01 And then we will speak about this.
27:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, of course. Yeah, we agree on that, right?
27:56 Jesse Michels? So we all agree on that. We all agree that the pyramids were likely not conventional tombs.
28:01 Speaker 02 Right.
28:03 Jesse Michels? We're all like same page there. And then it sounds like we're on the same page that water is this important thing. Whether it's chemical power plant or, you know, energy power plant. But yeah.
28:14 Speaker 01 And we are sure also that they were not built by the Egyptians.
28:18 Jesse Michels? That would be my bias. What do you think?
28:20 Speaker 01 What do you think?
28:21 Speaker 02 So by built by the Egyptians, I think they were built by the civilization that lived in Egypt during a period known as the Saharan humid period, which is from 8,500 B.C. to around 5,300 B.C.
28:38 Jesse Michels? Which well predates what Zahih Gwaz and like the Ministry of Culture would say.
28:43 Speaker 02 And during that time period, the Upper Eastern Sahara was being transformed from a desert into a vast area of farmland by sweeping monsoon rains. So there was tons of rain, there was tons of water, there were tons of thunderstorms, which is also directly connected to my hypothesis on the function of the pyramid structures. Directly connected to thunderstorms and lightning, which we'll get to the power source of the pyramids and why these subterranean structures might be important for capturing and recirculating that electrical current.
29:20 Jesse Michels? And you have, you have what seems to be water damage and erosion on the nose of the Sphinx that people like John Anthony West talk about.
29:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, the back of the Sphinx enclosure.
29:29 Jesse Michels? Okay.
29:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, the water, the water erosion at the back of the Sphinx enclosure.
29:34 Jesse Michels? Okay.
29:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, that's the work of Robert Schock that looks at those vertical fissures on the back of the Sphinx enclosure, which is indicative that the structure was built during a time period where there was significantly more rainfall.
29:46 Jesse Michels? Right.
29:46 Speaker 02 So I think it was built by the Egyptians by virtue of it being the people that were in Egypt.
29:53 Jesse Michels? Yeah, sure.
29:53 Speaker 02 At the time, which predates. So I do think it was, so I'm not in the alien camp where I think that these are extraterrestrial. I think they were built by human beings. At the end of the last Ice Age, in order to reestablish and rebuild humanity after the largest cataclysm that basically destroyed most of the planet and put human beings at risk for extinction. So they're infrastructure projects.
30:18 Jesse Michels? You mentioned Robert Shock. You know, he and Graham Hancock would say that the Sphinx itself is actually an homage to, you know, the former procession.
30:26 Speaker 02 Sure.
30:27 Jesse Michels? And that, you know, the constellation Leo, which was, you know, facing true north was what it was, you know, pointing towards and that the pharaonic, you know, headdress is actually sort of retrofitted
30:39 Speaker 02 Yes.
30:39 Jesse Michels? onto it. Would you agree with that?
30:41 Speaker 02 So I think the Sphinx itself is a dynastic monument that was built on an existing bedrock outcrop within the Sphinx enclosure.
30:49 Jesse Michels? Okay, so similar to
30:51 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah, yeah.
30:52 Jesse Michels? Okay, so
30:53 Speaker 02 I don't, I don't think the Sphinx monument as a statue is contemporary to the pyramids themselves.
30:59 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
30:59 Speaker 02 Two, two separate time periods.
31:01 Jesse Michels? Got it. Yeah, no, no. So it's, so it sounds like we're all on the same page that the conventional archaeological explanation for what's going on is kind of prima facie wrong. And that the goalposts are clearly moving on that.
31:15 Speaker 01 Let's say that we are sure that when I open the history book, school book of my son, and I go to the pyramid and I read to
31:30 Speaker 01 2500 B.C., it's, it's not true.
31:34 Jesse Michels? Yes, exactly.
31:35 Speaker 02 So, so let's get into it because I have some technical questions. So the title of their first paper. Again, when I read this at first, I was like, what the hell is going on here? Synthetic Aperture Radar Doppler Tomography Detects Undiscovered High-Resolution Internal Structures of the Great Pyramid of Giza. So this was their first public scan of the Great Pyramid before they scanned the Kafrah Pyramid, the, the central pyramid. And I'm going to quote briefly from the abstract here and then I'll do my best to, you know, from a layman's interpretation. Provide an explanation for exactly what's happening here for people who don't understand the technical stuff. So, one problem with synthetic aperture radar is that, given the limited penetrating
32:18 Speaker 02 effects of the electromagnetic magnetic waves inside solids.
32:22 Speaker 01 And we are saying it, one of the problems.
32:23 Speaker 02 Yes, yeah.
32:24 Speaker 01 So, who says that? I'm sorry if I interrupt.
32:27 Speaker 02 It's okay, go ahead, yeah, please.
32:28 Speaker 01 Who says, oh, oh, who says that? No, it's impossible because radar can't penetrate. This is the main issue.
32:35 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I'm just, I'm just.
32:38 Speaker 01 That you are going to dealing.
32:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And, and, and in the paper, the, this is in the abstract, they're, they're proposing one of the main problems. And then the resolution to the problem is the implementation of your new software system. So, again, let me just, so, so people can understand what's going on. So, one problem with SAR radar is that, given the limited penetrating effects of electromagnetic magnetic waves inside of solids, the capability to in, image inside distributed targets is excluded. So, under these circumstances, imaging activity is only given on the surface of distributed targets.
33:16 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
33:17 Speaker 02 This paper describes an imaging approach based on the investigation of micro-movements on the surface of the Khunum Khufu Pyramid, the Great Pyramid, usually generated by background seismic waves. So, essentially, what the technology and the Beyond the Protocol is, again, Filippo, please correct me if I'm wrong, and then agree if I have this interpretation correct. So, we have existing synthetic aperture radar satellite technology. And what you've done is developed a new software that works in conjunction with these existing
33:56 Speaker 02 satellites to detect micro-movements on the surface of the structure, which you have termed as phonons. And those phonons and the differences between the structure and the cavities are indications of chambers and hidden structures inside of the pyramid.
34:16 Speaker 01 Everything is encoded on these micro-movements.
34:21 Speaker 02 Yes, correct.
34:22 Speaker 01 If you have a chamber, the micro-movements are like that.
34:25 Speaker 02 Right.
34:25 Speaker 01 If you don't have the chamber, the micro-movements are different.
34:28 Speaker 02 Correct.
34:29 Speaker 01 Present on the surface.
34:30 Speaker 02 Right, yeah, yeah. So again, this is the the whole revolutionary and novel approach of the Beyond the Protocol is it's utilizing these surface micro vibrations to tell us what's going on on the inside of the structure. So, so again, to clarify, there's been some discussion in the community that, you know, SAR technology is old and it's vetted. It is 100%. SAR technology has been around for a long time, but what Filippo has done is developed a new approach to use these existing satellites.
35:02 Speaker 01 Existing data.
35:03 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah, to do something a little different, right? So we're now going to be using these micro vibrations, which again, they've called phonons, is the term utilized. So again, if you're reading the paper, if you're hearing a technical discussion, when you talk about phonons, you're talking about these micro vibrations that are being detected by the radar.
35:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
35:24 Speaker 02 Okay.
35:24 Speaker 01 I please ask you to go a bit up and at the previous slide, please, on the abstract, on the abstract.
35:33 Speaker 02 So I have some, oh, this one here, yeah, yeah.
35:36 Speaker 01 And there is written very clear that Knumku fu becomes transparent like a crystal when observed in the micro-movement domain.
35:48 Speaker 02 Yes.
35:49 Speaker 01 It's written there.
35:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
35:51 Speaker 01 Based on this novelty, we have completely reconstructed internal object observing and measuring structure that have never been discovered before.
36:01 Speaker 02 Yep.
36:02 Speaker 01 The experimental result are estimated estimated by processing series of SAR images. So this is the SAR. The SAR give you an image, existing image, and then we process those image. By, in that case, it was the 2020. Second generation Italian Cosmos Kymet Satellite System. A week ago, we we put in orbit a third satellite of Cosmos Kymet second generation. So now Italy has three satellites of Cosmos Kymet second generation.
36:37 Speaker 02 Yep, yep.
36:37 Speaker 01 It's very good.
36:38 Speaker 02 And I'll show all of the images from this paper. So people can see what you've discovered inside of the Great Pyramid and all of those diagrams.
36:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
36:47 Speaker 02 So this is from the Malta Conference, which fast forward a couple of years later, we're in Malta. And this just gives some additional information for the people watching so they can understand when we say phonons. They'll understand that those are the micro-movements.
37:00 Speaker 01 Phonons are micro-movements.
37:02 Speaker 02 Correct.
37:02 Speaker 01 When I, when, when we, when we deal with light.
37:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:06 Speaker 01 Light is composed by photons.
37:08 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah.
37:09 Speaker 01 The vibrations of this table.
37:11 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:12 Speaker 01 At any frequency is a vibration of the matter. And the vibration of the matter is composed by phonons.
37:18 Speaker 02 Yep.
37:18 Speaker 01 Okay.
37:19 Speaker 02 Yeah. So in this slide here, and this is where I have some questions about the process of the radar scan itself. So you have.
37:28 Speaker 01 I'm here, I'm here to explain everything about this every way.
37:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, of course. So the satellite is going around the Earth.
37:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:38 Speaker 02 And the, the flat Earth people are gonna go nuts when I, when I do this, right?
37:42 Speaker 01 No, there is the Pac-Man theory.
37:43 Speaker 02 Right, yeah, yeah. So again.
37:45 Speaker 01 The satellite goes.
37:46 Speaker 02 It goes around like this.
37:48 Speaker 01 Goes outside the Pac-Man theory and.
37:51 Speaker 02 It comes back around, yeah, yeah, magically, right? So again, the, the satellite is going around the Earth, right?
37:58 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:59 Speaker 02 And you're making passes over the target object. So the satellite's going around like this. And you're imaging the Great Pyramid, for example.
38:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:09 Speaker 02 What is the square footage?
38:13 Speaker 01 The square footage?
38:14 Speaker 02 Or the square meters, the, the footprint on the ground?
38:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's the correct word.
38:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, what is the size of the area?
38:22 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:23 Speaker 02 Of the target scan for the radar?
38:25 Speaker 01 Five kilometers times five kilometers, let's say.
38:29 Speaker 02 So, so is this, is that a standard footprint? Or can you adjust the size?
38:36 Speaker 01 It depends on the so-called geometry.
38:39 Speaker 02 Okay.
38:40 Speaker 01 There is a law that, that is, that belongs on radar.
38:46 Speaker 02 Yeah.
38:47 Speaker 01 The more the resolution, the less the footprint.
38:50 Speaker 02 The more resolution, less footprint. Right, yeah, because the smaller the footprint.
38:55 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:55 Speaker 02 The more accurate it is.
38:58 Speaker 01 Information inside the small is like a light when you focus the light.
39:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:03 Speaker 01 Footprint on this table.
39:05 Speaker 02 Yes.
39:05 Speaker 01 So if you focus the light, you have more information inside the footprint.
39:11 Speaker 02 Right. So you also use the phrase tomographic line.
39:15 Speaker 01 Tomographic line, yeah.
39:16 Speaker 02 Which is a slice.
39:18 Speaker 01 A slice.
39:18 Speaker 02 Of the internal.
39:20 Speaker 01 Yes, and you.
39:21 Speaker 02 System.
39:21 Speaker 01 And you extract a vertical.
39:23 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah. So to create these scans, the raw data.
39:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:29 Speaker 02 How many times does the satellite go around and over the target object? So it's only one scan. Fifteen seconds.
39:38 Speaker 01 Of integration.
39:39 Speaker 02 Okay.
39:40 Speaker 01 It is, it is in, in the signal processing language, a sufficient statistic.
39:47 Speaker 02 Okay.
39:48 Speaker 01 Or have a tomographic analysis. You can use also series of interferometric data.
39:54 Speaker 02 Yep.
39:56 Speaker 01 I have to explain what is an interferometric data. It is you, you are observing this, this, this target here. The satellite passes, you, you, you, you catch a snapshot of this target.
40:08 Speaker 02 Yes.
40:10 Speaker 01 When the satellite goes another time on this target, you will never see it in the same geometry. It means same incidence angle, same incidence angle, because the earth is moving while the satellite is.
40:25 Speaker 02 Sure, yes.
40:26 Speaker 01 Is turning around the earth.
40:29 Speaker 02 Right.
40:29 Speaker 01 So you have to wait the so-called orbital, uh, procession, orbital, uh. I don't remember the, the name, but orbital, then after I will, I will remember.
40:42 Speaker 02 Yeah.
40:42 Speaker 01 That in Cosmos KIMED is. Sixteen days.
40:46 Speaker 02 Hmm.
40:47 Speaker 01 You you have to wait sixteen days in order to observe the same target in the same geometry.
40:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, that that was gonna be my next question.
40:56 Speaker 01 And then you can collect fifteen seconds, fifteen seconds, fifteen seconds, fifteen seconds. Three months of observation persistently on the target.
41:05 Speaker 02 Yes.
41:06 Speaker 01 And you collect and you can collect N times fifteen seconds of observation.
41:11 Speaker 02 Right, right.
41:11 Speaker 01 But one image is a sufficient statistic in order to retract tomography.
41:16 Speaker 02 Okay, so that was actually my second question.
41:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:20 Speaker 02 Was are these composites
41:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:23 Speaker 02 of multiple passes and then all of them are put together for one image?
41:29 Speaker 01 Why you are speaking about multiple passages? We said that one image, fifteen seconds of integration.
41:37 Speaker 02 Yep.
41:38 Speaker 01 In order to perform the synthesis, uh, the synthesis of image is a sufficient statistic.
41:44 Speaker 02 Right.
41:44 Speaker 01 So with one fifteen seconds.
41:47 Speaker 02 Hmm.
41:47 Speaker 01 You have an image.
41:48 Speaker 02 Okay.
41:50 Speaker 01 Look.
41:50 Speaker 02 And that's, yeah, so just to clarify again, I'm just, I'm just curious about how the process works. So the the data
41:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:59 Speaker 02 shown in the first paper.
42:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:01 Speaker 02 And in the scans of the Kufu Pyramid.
42:03 Speaker 01 Yes.
42:04 Speaker 02 And the pillars below.
42:06 Speaker 01 Yes.
42:07 Speaker 02 That's collected from a single scan fifteen seconds.
42:11 Speaker 01 With with a single synthetic virtual rather image.
42:14 Speaker 02 Okay.
42:14 Speaker 01 Fifteen seconds of integration.
42:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we'll we'll talk about the scans of the Osiris Shaft as well.
42:21 Speaker 01 Also that.
42:21 Speaker 02 And that's why, you remember, I went to the Giza Plateau to investigate the area around the Osiris Shaft.
42:29 Speaker 01 Yes.
42:29 Speaker 02 And this is when I was asking you about the footprint.
42:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:33 Speaker 02 The area of the scan.
42:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:35 Speaker 02 So when you scanned the Osiris Shaft, was the footprint of the area in terms of meters by meters, length by width, was that also five kilometers? Or did you make the scan area smaller?
42:50 Speaker 01 We used only one available product of synthetic virtual data given by Cosmos Kymet, which is called Spotlight 2, the civilian application of Cosmos Kymet.
43:02 Speaker 02 Okay.
43:03 Speaker 01 And that ensures five kilo, five kilometers times five kilometers in that resolution.
43:10 Speaker 02 Okay.
43:10 Speaker 01 And the space resolution is a sub metric, nearly one meter plus one meter.
43:16 Speaker 02 Right.
43:16 Speaker 01 One meter times one meter.
43:18 Speaker 02 Okay. And I'll, I'll show the scan data from the Osiris shaft. And the reason I'm asking about the footprint.
43:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:25 Speaker 02 Is because it's a two dimensional image.
43:28 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:29 Speaker 02 Right?
43:29 Speaker 01 Tomographic line times depth.
43:31 Speaker 02 Correct.
43:32 Speaker 01 Okay.
43:32 Speaker 02 So you're taking a five by five kilometer scan.
43:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:37 Speaker 02 And compressing it.
43:38 Speaker 01 No.
43:39 Speaker 02 No.
43:40 Speaker 01 No. You choose your, the pixel that you want to invert.
43:44 Speaker 02 Okay.
43:44 Speaker 01 You, you can choose any pixel.
43:46 Speaker 02 Right.
43:46 Speaker 01 The image. Maybe you choose, this is the image. This is the image, okay? You choose this pixel and this other pixel. You, you, you draw a line and you extract the vertical curtain.
44:01 Speaker 02 Okay.
44:01 Speaker 01 You, you can go anywhere on the, on the image. Okay?
44:05 Speaker 02 Interesting.
44:06 Speaker 01 Okay.
44:06 Speaker 02 And the reason, I'll, I'll get to it when we look at the scan data.
44:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
44:11 Speaker 02 Because on the left side of the Osiris shaft, it's picking up something else there.
44:17 Speaker 01 Ah, yes.
44:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
44:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, I tell you this.
44:19 Speaker 02 And that's why I was interested, yeah, because we're on the same, yeah, of course, yeah.
44:23 Speaker 01 Thank you for this question.
44:24 Speaker 02 Of course.
44:25 Jesse Michels? Before we get into that, can I, can I just say one thing? Because we're, we're scared of the, the Osiris shaft is used often as evidence by your team.
44:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
44:35 Jesse Michels? For at least some validation, it's not blind validation.
44:38 Speaker 01 Because we know perfectly the.
44:40 Jesse Michels? Because you know the structure and you use this same method to derive that structure.
44:46 Speaker 01 Indeed, I like to show the, the Gransasso, the Gransasso laboratory because it's very nice in my personal opinion.
44:53 Jesse Michels? Well, there you go.
44:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, I have, I have that too, so we can show everybody the proof of concept, so.
44:59 Speaker 01 Ah, there's the Gransasso laboratory, you, you see also the, the interferometer that is, that is on the, the end of the structure.
45:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And I thought, I thought those proof of concepts, so again, it's, it's proof of concept.
45:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:11 Speaker 02 To establish the precedent and the viability of the technology.
45:16 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:16 Speaker 02 To scan existing structures where we have a known configuration. And this technology was very good at accurately detecting the known structures within these modern facilities that were scanned.
45:30 Jesse Michels? But also the Osiris shaft too.
45:32 Speaker 02 We'll talk about that, I have a question, I just have some questions.
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46:55 Speaker 01 I imagine the question that you want to ask me that we will arrive.
46:59 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
47:00 Speaker 01 And but I anticipate you that any measurement, technical measurement, is affected by errors.
47:06 Jesse Michels? Errors, right, right, of course, yeah.
47:08 Speaker 01 If you have something and aberration, because you are watching in a crystal that it's made of stones, you know, stones, you can, you can have aberration on the results.
47:24 Jesse Michels? So background, background noise.
47:27 Speaker 01 Back and noise, and also aberration.
47:28 Jesse Michels? And interference, yeah.
47:30 Speaker 01 An aberration is due by the not constant density of the matter.
47:38 Jesse Michels? Sure.
47:38 Speaker 01 While you are dealing with vibrations, vibrations penetrates inside matter. But the matter, vibrations are, travels matter.
47:52 Speaker 01 Eh in eh with a speed that it depends on the density of the matter of the matter in where they are traveling.
48:01 Speaker 02 Correct.
48:02 Speaker 01 If the matter is not eh eh has eh different densities eh so you have a better ratio on the results.
48:11 Speaker 02 Sure, yeah, yeah. So to to reinterpret what he just said is the penetration and the signature of vibrational analysis.
48:19 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:20 Speaker 02 Depends on the density of the material.
48:22 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:23 Speaker 02 Because the more dense the material, the less vibrational signal.
48:27 Speaker 01 Eh the velocity changes.
48:28 Speaker 02 Correct.
48:30 Speaker 01 You have in interference.
48:32 Speaker 02 Sure, yeah, yeah.
48:33 Speaker 01 Okay.
48:34 Jesse Michels? Um, and real real quick, just for the audience, because I want them to kind of visualize and have context for this.
48:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
48:40 Jesse Michels? Why don't you answer? What what is the Osiris Shaft?
48:42 Speaker 02 So the Osiris Shaft is a three level structure located on the eastern causeway leading from the central pyramid down to the Valley Temple and the Sphinx. And it's thirty three meter underground triple chamber system, not triple chamber, three different levels. You have a shaft that goes down to the primary level. You have another shaft that goes down to the secondary level where there's six housings that have some containers of different material. One's Dacite, one's Black Basalt. And then you go down to the third level where there is four pillars. This is the area that's tapped into that subterranean aquifer.
49:24 Speaker 02 It's literally calibrated to just tap the surface of the water in that underground aquifer. And there's another chamber eh container down in the third level.
49:34 Jesse Michels? And and what is the Grand Sasso Laboratory?
49:37 Speaker 01 Yes, eh the Grand Sasso Laboratory is eh located in one one point four kilometers below the earth, starting from the aperture of the Grand Sasso, the the the top of the of the mountain. And it is very huge, eh very, very big. And it is always in alive. It means that there are ventilators, there are facilities, electrical components inside. So it is in alive.
50:07 Jesse Michels? What are they, is this like?
50:09 Speaker 02 It's a physics lab.
50:10 Jesse Michels? So it's like, it's like, it's like one of the national labs in the US, like Los Alamos.
50:13 Speaker 01 I tell you what, what is the principal core of the Gran Sasso. It is called the Gerda experiment because they are, they didn't find it, still find it. The so-called Majorana particle.
50:32 Speaker 01 The Majorana particle is very important because it demonstrates that there are particles that are antiparticles of their, of their self, okay? And so in the Gran Sasso, the Gran Sasso was made purposely to demonstrate the Majorana, the existence of the Majorana particle.
50:53 Jesse Michels? The existence of antiparticles?
50:55 Speaker 01 That is antiparticle of him. So particle and antiparticle are the same thing. And so that opens a lot of.
51:05 Jesse Michels? So like, cause now in particle theory, now you have electrons and positrons. But what, what exactly are you saying?
51:11 Speaker 01 But we are dealing with sub neutrinos.
51:15 Jesse Michels? Ah, well, like, like quarks and?
51:18 Speaker 01 Yes, and neutrino.
51:19 Jesse Michels? Oh, you're literally neutrinos, okay. Yeah, it's just a neutrinos.
51:23 Speaker 01 Sub, sub particle, sub.
51:26 Speaker 02 Subatomic, yeah.
51:27 Jesse Michels? Subatomic particles. And neutrinos, for people that don't know, you know, are very hard to detect. They're very elusive, so, and they seem to penetrate through all.
51:38 Speaker 01 And so, yes, they, they built the Gran Sasso laboratory in order to have a stable environment. Very silent environment because there is all the mountain that makes as a filter.
51:51 Speaker 02 It's an insulator for the detecting equipment. They built it inside of a mountain.
51:55 Speaker 01 Yes, and there there are, there is a specific detector that is, that has been built to, in order to, to, to recognize this Majorana particle.
52:06 Jesse Michels? Very cool.
52:06 Speaker 02 Okay, yeah. And I'll, and I'll show that in just a second so people can see the scan of the, of the lab.
52:11 Jesse Michels? Sweet.
52:12 Speaker 02 So again, I'm just going to introduce, we talked a little bit about the abstract, the development of the technology and how it was implemented in this first scan. So. What we're looking at here is one of the first.
52:25 Speaker 01 Yes, this was the first one.
52:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, the raw data images.
52:28 Speaker 01 It's a bit noisy, but then the technique.
52:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So Filippo, you kind of already know my questions, looking at it.
52:38 Speaker 01 Okay, you recognize.
52:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, because now you're five years, six years removed from the first paper. And from what I understand, the satellites that you're using now are superior to the ones that you were using during this initial scan. And now you're using.
52:54 Speaker 01 The algorithm is superior also.
52:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, and now you're using multiple satellites where this one was only collected with a single satellite. Is that correct?
53:02 Speaker 01 Yes.
53:03 Speaker 02 Okay.
53:03 Jesse Michels? So what are we looking at here?
53:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, so basically here on the left. So let's start with on the right.
53:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:09 Speaker 02 On the right is the raw scan data image. On the left is an overlay of the configuration of the Great Pyramid.
53:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:21 Speaker 02 Overlaid on top of the tomographic results.
53:25 Speaker 01 Yes, I have to make a remark when I speak about raw data.
53:29 Speaker 02 Yes.
53:30 Speaker 01 These are dealing always with focus at the data.
53:33 Speaker 02 Yes.
53:33 Speaker 01 Because also in the vibrational domain, you have raw data and focus data.
53:39 Speaker 02 Yes.
53:40 Speaker 01 Okay, so raw data is the data that you have before the so-called fast Fourier transform. I tell you, if you have a camera, a camera like that, that camera, and you make a picture with that camera, you see the image.
54:00 Speaker 02 Correct.
54:01 Speaker 01 Okay? If you disassemble the camera and you separate the optics by the body of the camera, you can make a photo also with using only the body of the camera.
54:17 Speaker 01 The result is that you see a picture, but you don't see the picture focused, because the focusing procedure is done by the optics.
54:28 Speaker 02 Developing the image. So a comparison to photography is like old cameras, where you have to develop the photo. The photo is there, but it requires a process to focus the image.
54:40 Speaker 01 And in that case, the process is made naturally by the lens, because the lens performs Fourier transform of what you are seeing.
54:49 Jesse Michels? So is this image on the right, is this not focused?
54:51 Speaker 01 Focused.
54:52 Jesse Michels? It is focused.
54:53 Speaker 02 So it's the process. Yeah, so they take. But the focus data.
54:58 Jesse Michels? And when you use the Beyond D method with your software, are you taking, are you using an inversion of the focused data?
55:08 Speaker 01 Raw data.
55:09 Jesse Michels? Yeah, that's interesting.
55:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, so this is the final product of what you actually want to look for.
55:14 Speaker 01 No, that's called final noisy product.
55:17 Jesse Michels? But you use the unfocused raw data.
55:20 Speaker 01 No, we don't have to confuse the SAR image, so the optical image, with what we are retrieving on the vertical curtain. Also, when we retrieve something, when we extract the tomographic line, also there you have raw data, and you have to focus it also.
55:41 Jesse Michels? Got it.
55:42 Speaker 01 You have to focus everything, any instrumental measurement, equipment that makes photo, you have to focus this photo.
55:51 Jesse Michels? And you have to focus it before you use your Beyond D method? Or is it after?
55:56 Speaker 02 So the Beyond D method itself is what receives these micro vibrations.
56:02 Jesse Michels? Got it.
56:03 Speaker 02 So then that raw data that receives those micro vibrations is processed to create this focused image.
56:13 Jesse Michels? So there's nothing particularly unique or proprietary about turning the focused SAR data into an image? Is that correct?
56:21 Speaker 01 Yes.
56:21 Jesse Michels? That's very basic.
56:22 Speaker 02 His proprietary process is just the retrieval of the micro movements that allow this imaging to be possible.
56:31 Jesse Michels? Okay.
56:31 Speaker 02 Right.
56:31 Speaker 01 Just to remark the fact, the Beyond D protocol is composed by two steps. The first step is called synthesis, and the second step is called analysis.
56:44 Speaker 01 In the synthesis, we retrieve the vibrations on the pixel composing the tomographic line that we want to invert. The second process is called analysis, the inversion, which is a fast Fourier transform, the lens of the camera. Because you see nothing.
57:04 Speaker 02 So again, this is a good preparation for everything that you're going to face coming up. Because now the work is going to get even more popular.
57:11 Speaker 01 Sis.
57:12 Speaker 02 And you're going to have more people asking questions like this that are trying to better understand. So moving forward, so people can understand what they're looking at with the next set of focused images. Here on the right, we have the scale.
57:26 Speaker 01 Yes.
57:27 Speaker 02 So this is the concentration or intensity of the vibrations.
57:33 Speaker 01 One normalizer.
57:34 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah. So you see everything in blue is the normal body of the structure or the background air, et cetera, right? So as it goes up the scale, we have more intense vibrations that are being registered by this satellite radar. Just so everybody can understand the coloring.
57:54 Speaker 01 Correct.
57:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, correct. Yeah, it just shows the intensity of the vibrations that are detected. So looking back on it, are you, are you still confident and proud of this data?
58:05 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
58:05 Speaker 02 Or would you rather go back and try to clean it up more?
58:09 Speaker 01 Yes, we can, we can manage to clean it up more, absolutely yes. But these results gives you a lot of information.
58:18 Speaker 02 Right.
58:19 Speaker 01 But we, we didn't use only one result. We have, we had a plethora of results in order to retrieve the 3D that you will show.
58:27 Speaker 02 Yes, I have everything. Yeah, yeah.
58:29 Speaker 01 I have to say something about my technique that we have to, when, when you extract a vertical curtain, it is normal that.
58:38 Speaker 02 So you're saying vertical curtain?
58:40 Speaker 01 Curtain, yes.
58:40 Speaker 02 Curtain, right? So like the sheet or the layer or the slice, the vertical curtain? Yeah, okay, yeah. So just, just in case people didn't understand, vertical curtain means the slice that's being extracted from this.
58:53 Speaker 01 This is important, that the vertical curtain is not perfect. Maybe if a very bright target is located here.
59:03 Speaker 01 You can see it. You have to move a lot the vertical curtain in order to see it again. Because it's like a cone of sensitivity. Because every antenna has a cone of sensitivity.
59:18 Speaker 02 Yes.
59:19 Speaker 01 So if you are perfectly in the line of sight, okay, you will see things that are mainly located on the line of sight.
59:27 Speaker 02 Yes.
59:28 Speaker 01 But if you have bright targets that are located also having a certain angular of deviation, you can see it.
59:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, and we'll talk about.
59:38 Speaker 01 That is what having there, what you will anticipate me in the question or questions of the Osiris shaft is true. You can see also things that are located here.
59:49 Speaker 02 Yes, right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And we'll talk about this cone of sensitivity.
59:54 Speaker 01 Yes.
59:54 Speaker 02 When it comes to the muon scanning.
59:57 Speaker 01 Hey, also there you have things, because also there they have to, they have raw data, also there they have to perform fast Fourier transform. I know everything about it.
1:00:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I included some so we can get your opinion and feedback.
1:00:09 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:10 Speaker 02 Because, so for people that don't know, muon scanning is using cosmic ray absorption to do a similar process to detect interior structures.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 They use that method like the camera, like my camera. You have to always focus data, you have to always perform fast Fourier transform. And you have to always perform tomographic inversion also there.
1:00:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I have some information here about that, and I would love to hear your opinion on that, because they use.
1:00:38 Speaker 01 It's a pleasure for me too.
1:00:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, of course. And so again, my objective here is just to get to the bottom of it. Because there's conflicting data between what the muon scanning team has reported and what your team has reported. So I wanted to get your interpretation for why that's the case, and then we can, I'll show the data here in just a second.
1:01:00 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:01:01 Speaker 02 So we have three red squares.
1:01:03 Speaker 01 That we have focus at three for who is reading, no?
1:01:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 To give the readers a help how to interpret.
1:01:13 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah. So, so on the far right, you can see the edge of the pyramid there.
1:01:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:01:18 Speaker 02 With all of that yellow and red, that is the surface external casing of the Great Pyramid with all of that red and yellow, very intense vibrations. Because it's closer to the surface.
1:01:32 Speaker 01 When you see it, it's very, my best, my best review is very, it's very, it's very nice, it's a result, okay.
1:01:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:01:39 Speaker 01 And we can go.
1:01:39 Speaker 02 And then moving on the inside, we have one, two, and three. One being the area around the King's Chamber.
1:01:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:01:47 Speaker 02 Two being the Queen's Chamber. And three is the Subterranean Chamber.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:53 Speaker 02 And here, I will say that the detection of the Queen's Chamber.
1:01:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:59 Speaker 02 At two. And you can see here the overlay of the Queen's Chamber in the center with the raw scan data. The Queen's Chamber always has a very good signature, a very strong vibrational signature.
1:02:14 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:02:14 Speaker 02 Right.
1:02:14 Speaker 01 The Queen's Chamber is a benchmark because we can see it.
1:02:18 Speaker 02 And it, it would also help you determining the most effective curtain or slice.
1:02:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:25 Speaker 02 So if you have a strong signature on the Queen's Chamber, you know that your tomographic line is lined up accurately for the objects of interest in the particular scan. In terms of the configuration, I'll show some diagrams. And everything in the Great Pyramid is aligned right on top of each other. So, again, this just is showing the first overlay.
1:02:49 Jesse Michels? But I guess we'll go back there.
1:02:51 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
1:02:51 Jesse Michels? My, my sort of super stupid question is like, I'm looking at the raw tomographic result.
1:02:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:57 Jesse Michels? And I'm looking at one, two, three. And maybe I see something a little around one, but two and three look mostly like in the sort of blue range. Like, how do you convert one to the other? Like, what?
1:03:10 Speaker 02 So, so let me explain here.
1:03:11 Jesse Michels? Is this, is this a failure detector? Is this a positive detection of the Queen's Chamber?
1:03:15 Speaker 02 So let me, let me clarify. So all of these images are screenshots directly from the paper. And here on the left is a stamp. Standard diagram of the Great Pyramid. This is not one of their models, which I'll show their models here in just a second.
1:03:30 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:03:31 Speaker 02 Where they actually interpreted the focused scan data into new 3D models.
1:03:37 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:03:37 Speaker 02 So this is a known standard diagram on the left.
1:03:41 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:03:41 Speaker 02 Overlaid with the focus data.
1:03:43 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:03:44 Speaker 02 And I would agree with that statement that one and three, you can see the highlight.
1:03:49 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:03:49 Speaker 02 Aren't super encouraging.
1:03:51 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:03:52 Speaker 02 In terms of the detection in this particular slice.
1:03:55 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:03:55 Speaker 02 So for example, at one.
1:03:57 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:03:57 Speaker 02 I don't see a clear signature there for the King's Chamber.
1:04:01 Jesse Michels? Sure.
1:04:01 Speaker 02 And down at three, if you look at the overlay of the diagram on top of it.
1:04:06 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:04:06 Speaker 02 It's not picking up the subterranean chamber either.
1:04:09 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:04:09 Speaker 02 On the far left, you can't see a glow.
1:04:12 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:04:12 Speaker 02 Which is indicative of these vibrations from the subterranean chamber.
1:04:16 Jesse Michels? Filippo, do you agree with that or like, do you agree that it's sort of missing the subterranean chamber and the King's Chamber?
1:04:23 Speaker 01 Yes, I agree.
1:04:24 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:04:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:04:25 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:04:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:04:26 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:04:27 Speaker 02 And so again, this just kind of establishes a way for us to discuss this.
1:04:31 Speaker 01 It is not mathematical that we can see in that tomographic line using that radar image that we can detect things is not mathematical. Sure. We are not sure. So we can, we have to do uh uh different measurements in order to have the results.
1:04:47 Jesse Michels? But I guess my again, super dumb question, and I think I'm probably jumping ahead with it is if we failed to detect certain chambers in the pyramid.
1:04:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:56 Jesse Michels? Why are we high confidence in structures going a kilometer deep underneath the pyramid?
1:05:00 Speaker 01 Yes, because in the Caffrey research that we made a few years later than this, we changed the approach. So, so we used very um different geometries on the satellite data. So with very low incidence angle, that means that the the layover of the of the radar images were very high. But that kind of acquisition, when we use a low incidence angle.
1:05:35 Speaker 01 The power of the of the photons are very high, is very high. Because you see things like that. So you have a di- direct interaction with the earth. That kind of um increasing of power allowed us to see deeper.
1:05:54 Speaker 02 Hmm.
1:05:54 Speaker 01 Okay. And in that kind of configuration, we were able to detect, to uh measure the structure that were underneath.
1:06:05 Speaker 02 Did you ever redo the Great Pyramid? And accurately detect these chambers with the lower angle of incidence?
1:06:14 Speaker 01 Yes, that the the, although this it was a medium angle of incidence.
1:06:19 Speaker 02 So when you say the angle of incident, let me, let me try to interpret that for the layperson. So when the satellite starts scanning.
1:06:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:28 Speaker 02 Right, this fifteen seconds of scanning time, the process starts lower. As opposed to scanning up here. So you're scanning from lower on the horizon.
1:06:39 Speaker 01 We have.
1:06:40 Speaker 02 As opposed to trying to scan from the top.
1:06:42 Speaker 01 I give you the answer about this. So we have to um do a bit lesson now of how data are required. Let's say that this is the target.
1:06:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:06:54 Speaker 01 That I want to, this is five kilometers times five kilometers.
1:06:58 Speaker 02 Which is a huge, it's a huge area to scan. Yeah.
1:07:02 Speaker 01 It's very generous.
1:07:03 Speaker 02 Right.
1:07:03 Speaker 01 I want a picture here.
1:07:05 Speaker 02 There we go.
1:07:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:07:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:07:06 Speaker 01 This is the satellite.
1:07:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:07:07 Speaker 01 The satellite flies on the, on the, on an orbit.
1:07:13 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah.
1:07:14 Speaker 01 Okay, a curved orbit.
1:07:17 Speaker 01 So if I want a, an image here. In the radar uh field, we say, I don't want it squinted. So it means that the sense, we we trace here a vertical line.
1:07:34 Speaker 01 We start the sensing here. Minus seven seconds.
1:07:40 Speaker 01 Plus seven seconds. Fifteen seconds.
1:07:43 Jesse Michels? Right.
1:07:43 Speaker 01 Seven point five. So like that. So here we begin. Acting our sensing. And here we. Release the sensing. We have the image. But. SAR is a side looking.
1:08:00 Speaker 01 Sensor, so we have to tilt. This is the zero Doppler. Puck. We have to tilt. On the incidence angle.
1:08:10 Jesse Michels? Right.
1:08:10 Speaker 01 Because it's a side looking.
1:08:12 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:08:12 Speaker 01 And we can, we can. Scan, let's say, never nadiral, because it doesn't work.
1:08:18 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:08:19 Speaker 01 So from here. Like that. To here.
1:08:22 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:08:23 Speaker 01 From here. To here. Like that. So we choose that. A very low incidence angle, which is the angle. Belonging the. Nadir. Of our image. And the line of sight. This angle.
1:08:43 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:08:43 Speaker 01 This is the incidence angle.
1:08:45 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:08:45 Speaker 01 Low incidence angle. High layover. High incidence angle, low layover effect.
1:08:53 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:08:54 Speaker 01 And that, now I tell you what is the layover. Like that, to like that. For the CAFRE research project, we use it. Low incidence angle, why? Because the photons that are transmitted here on the earth has high power. Because the probability that the photons that arrive this year. Are. Retransmitted into the deep space. Is low. So you have the scattering. Energy is higher. Than this. That is lower.
1:09:29 Jesse Michels? Hmm hmm.
1:09:29 Speaker 01 Okay? Because we wanted to go inside, because. We wanted to see targets very bright, because. Here, the Doppler effect is more. We are more sensitive in the Doppler effect with low incidence angle. With respect to the higher incidence angle. Okay.
1:09:48 Jesse Michels? Yep, and all of the validation you've done has been at lower incidence angle.
1:09:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:09:54 Jesse Michels? Okay, and so.
1:09:56 Speaker 01 Yes, lower incidence angle is better. In this case.
1:10:01 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:10:02 Speaker 01 We wanted to see, we were focused on the pyramid, on the pyramid at the beginning in 2020. And if we, if we were using low incidence angle data, the pyramid are layovered. It means that imagine the pyramid, you see the pyramid, the pyramid is smashed on the layover. It means that you see the pyramid like that.
1:10:31 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
1:10:31 Speaker 01 Well, the pyramid is smashed like that, and so it is difficult to, to see details inside the pyramid. But we were interested in the, in the recent research that we did, that we did on all the Giza Plateau to see, okay, the pyramid, I don't care about a lot about the pyramid. I want to see what there is below the pyramid. I don't know if I am understanding this, if you, if I am explaining better this. So we used, principally we used lower incidence angle, but not everywhere. So we use it, let's say, different incidence.
1:11:12 Jesse Michels? Got it, and then you triangulated the truth from the different incidence. And, and are you highly confident that if you used the same methodology on the Great Pyramid again with the different incidence angles and triangulating them?
1:11:26 Speaker 01 We did it, we did it.
1:11:27 Jesse Michels? And you did.
1:11:27 Speaker 01 But, but it was not to, to retrieve things that we did on 2020. But it was focused to see what was deep below the.
1:11:41 Jesse Michels? But did you ever?
1:11:41 Speaker 01 I don't know if I am.
1:11:43 Jesse Michels? You know, it's super clear. Did you ever try to redo just the pyramid itself to make sure that the accuracy on the chambers was correct?
1:11:52 Speaker 01 No, but we can.
1:11:53 Jesse Michels? But you can do it, okay.
1:11:54 Speaker 02 So, so also, you haven't seen any of this yet, the first paper data? There's, there's way more.
1:12:00 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:12:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, and they've, they did.
1:12:01 Speaker 01 There are a lot of results.
1:12:02 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, of course. And I'm gonna show all that so everyone can see it. I think it's important for everyone to see it. Because they did different scans that show it sometimes.
1:12:14 Speaker 01 Hmm.
1:12:14 Speaker 02 So we'll get to that now. We can go ahead and go ahead. So for example, this next one, is this image from this same scan? It's just a focused image?
1:12:26 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
1:12:27 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:12:27 Speaker 01 Something.
1:12:28 Speaker 02 So, so this one, I think we would.
1:12:30 Speaker 01 Queen chamber.
1:12:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, down below, right? So I think we all agree that the imaging of the King's Chamber here is not great. But we do have a very promising image of the Queen's Chamber.
1:12:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:44 Speaker 02 I would say that this is actually, and you can even see, so look at C down there on the bottom right. You can actually see the horizontal shaft.
1:12:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:53 Speaker 02 Coming out of the Queen's Chamber is detected, I would say fairly accurately. So I think this is, again, I, I kind of like to look at the positives and the negatives, right? Objectively analyzing the data.
1:13:07 Speaker 01 Yes, Jeff, Jeff, I tell you this. Um, the important of the future of this technique.
1:13:13 Speaker 02 Right.
1:13:13 Speaker 01 Is the, the velocity of the, uh, to obtain the result, the result.
1:13:18 Speaker 02 So the speed of the radar?
1:13:20 Speaker 01 N- n- no, the speed of the synthesis. Okay?
1:13:25 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:13:25 Speaker 01 I have the sorry image. You have, you have to perform, you have a tomographic li- uh, line, you have to perform synthesis. To perform synthesis, you need days, days and days. Because it is time consuming, consuming the processing. You've been in Corziano, I show you, I showed you the computer, big computers, but you need time. Yes. And, um, the best thing to do now is to, um, increase the, the, the speed. So decrease the time that I have to wait in order to obtain a tomography. Okay? And so to make it also, let's say, similar real time.
1:14:10 Speaker 01 What does it mean? That this, the thing that I am, that I'm think, and this, this is the procedure that I'm thinking that we will do it in the future. Uh, I think that the future of this technique is this. You have an image. You have a tomographic line, but this tomographic line, you can move it
1:14:32 Speaker 01 in real time and on a monitor, you will see. To see, yeah, like a CT scan. Like where you move through the sections and see all the different layers. Because I remember when, when we, we did, but also on the Carrefour project. You have, you, you, you launch a process, you have to wait fifteen days and I forgot what, what, what we are watching. So it is a bit, no, a bit not, not so, not so useful for, it is for research, okay? So you want to be able to do. We did the paper, we did the paper. But if we want to do several scans, you have to, you have to wait a lot to have the results.
1:15:11 Speaker 01 So, in my best, in my opinion, now, the thing that we are doing is this, we have to re-cannad the software. We have to use arise of GPU, arise of GPU. Yeah. Maybe we can also multiply the processing power also for, I don't know, I can say ten thousand times. It means that fifteen days will become thirty seconds. It's good, passing from fifteen days into thirty seconds. But to do this, I need investments. We need, I can't do it.
1:15:53 Speaker 01 But in my best, in my best opinion, the future of this, because here, the problem that, that, and thank you for giving me arising these problems. Yeah, yeah. That we are having now is related to the processing time. Because this is only one tomographic line. If you move in real time on a plethora of Adiashant tomographic lines, you can see everything, everything.
1:16:25 Speaker 01 And you do it real time, like when you go to the doctor?
1:16:29 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:16:29 Speaker 01 You make a scan of your.
1:16:31 Speaker 02 I don't know whether it's CT scan or MRI, but where they can literally move through the different. I think it's a CT scan, yeah. Where you can literally move through the sections in real time. But it's also, like you said, it requires super high processing power.
1:16:45 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:16:45 Speaker 02 And this is just the initial.
1:16:47 Speaker 01 It's possible to do it.
1:16:48 Speaker 02 Of course, yeah.
1:16:48 Speaker 01 This is 1.0.
1:16:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:16:50 Speaker 01 You can move also.
1:16:51 Speaker 02 Right, that's what I was gonna say.
1:16:52 Speaker 01 But it's not for me, on my, I don't know.
1:16:56 Jesse Michels? I think the burning question people have now is what gives, if this is just one tomographic scan, you have to wait 16 days, is that the same method outside of the angle of incidence that you used for detecting the substructures below the copper?
1:17:12 Speaker 01 Is the same method?
1:17:13 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:17:14 Speaker 01 It's the same method, absolutely yes, and has been improved in terms of details of the method.
1:17:21 Jesse Michels? Mainly angle of incidence or anything else?
1:17:23 Speaker 01 We have used a different incidence angle scanning the bit of dirt, but it's the same.
1:17:32 Jesse Michels? Okay, and all the validation that you've done at Gran Sasso, Osiris, was that with the multiple angles of incidence and the triangulating?
1:17:42 Speaker 01 I tell you, I tell you, yes. Because the Gran Sasso.
1:17:44 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:17:45 Speaker 01 It is very high, it is nearly 3,000 meters, 2,990 meters, 93, I think. And there, the layover effect is massive, present on this image. So I had to, to, to, to, let's say, order different images in order to choose the best one.
1:18:16 Speaker 01 In my, for me, the best one, maybe other image could be also better. Uh, in order to retrieve the, the laboratory, to detect the, the laboratory.
1:18:26 Speaker 02 So here's another different scan.
1:18:28 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:18:28 Speaker 02 Of, of the King's Chamber.
1:18:30 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:18:31 Speaker 02 Yeah. So, so when they say Z chamber, they're referring to what's conventionally called the King's Chamber. And this scan image looks qualitatively different than what we see here.
1:18:43 Speaker 01 It's not the same tomography.
1:18:45 Speaker 02 Correct. Yeah. A different tomographic line. So you've gone in and taken a different vertical slice.
1:18:51 Speaker 01 As I told you.
1:18:52 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:18:52 Speaker 01 If you have a speed, you can do it in real time.
1:18:55 Speaker 02 Right.
1:18:55 Speaker 01 So you will, in real time, uh, choose the, the best one to, to show to the, to, to, to, to the.
1:19:01 Speaker 02 Right. Yeah.
1:19:01 Speaker 01 Customers who wants to.
1:19:03 Speaker 02 And so in my interpretation here, so you see the horizontal signatures.
1:19:08 Speaker 01 These are like.
1:19:08 Speaker 02 These are the granite beams. That are part of a structure known as the relieving chamber. Which is a structure located above. You can see the diagram on the left. Again, this is a known archaeological diagram of the King's Chamber. Not a 3D model of their interpretation of the new stuff. So these overlays are just taking known diagrams, overlapping it with the tomographic data. So we can see where these things correspond. And if you look there on the right. You can actually kind of see the slope angle of the. Triangle at the top.
1:19:49 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:19:49 Speaker 02 You see it kind of, it picks, it picks that up to a little bit on the right. You see that slope?
1:19:55 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:19:55 Speaker 02 That aligns with the top of the chamber. And the horizontal signatures of these granite lintel beams.
1:20:03 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
1:20:03 Speaker 02 So we do have, again, the red is indicating a very strong vibrational signature from inside of the structure. And I will say that this one is pretty good.
1:20:14 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
1:20:14 Speaker 02 I was, I was, when I saw this originally, I was like, oh, this is, this is promising. For detection of the King's Chamber. But you also have to keep in mind, the King's Chamber is made of granite.
1:20:27 Speaker 02 So there is a qualitative difference in the material of construction. That's specifically related to the quality of the detection.
1:20:38 Speaker 02 So for example, the surrounding mass is all limestone. But the King's Chamber is made of granite, which is maybe one of the reasons why we're getting such a good signature on this particular tomographic line. Would you agree with that, Felipe?
1:20:54 Speaker 01 Absolutely, yes. I think that we are detecting also the so-called sarcophagus, which is not a sarcophagus,
1:21:03 Speaker 01 that is inside the King's Chamber.
1:21:05 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
1:21:05 Speaker 01 Yes, that facility there.
1:21:07 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:21:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:08 Speaker 02 Cool. So the only questions I had on this one, so the big red signature at the bottom.
1:21:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:15 Speaker 02 Is just background interference.
1:21:18 Speaker 01 But you have a...
1:21:21 Speaker 02 The floor?
1:21:22 Speaker 01 The floor, the floor, no, of, there is a floor.
1:21:25 Speaker 02 Okay, and I'll get back to that in just a second.
1:21:28 Speaker 01 We have to investigate about that.
1:21:30 Speaker 02 Regarding the bedrock.
1:21:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:32 Speaker 02 So the conventional explanation of the bedrock foundation below the Great Pyramid is that it stops somewhere near the grotto at the base of the pyramid. But in my opinion, the bedrock mound is actually much taller than we think. And one of your other scans shows what may be the true level of the bedrock. And in my opinion, the King's Chamber is sitting on top of a bedrock foundation within the pyramid, which is what? Yeah.
1:22:09 Speaker 01 That we are detecting something that...
1:22:11 Speaker 02 Right. So this is a good one. This is a promising signature. You know, there are some tracers that go outside of the limits of the known chamber. But this is pretty good. Okay, so the next one here, this is where things got really interesting for me with the first paper. So again, we're looking at the Queen's Chamber. And what they have here at the bottom is a scan of the Queen's Chamber in the center of the pyramid. And it has been anecdotally reported. And documented from the original excavations of the Great Pyramid, that there is a shaft and chamber system located below the Queen's Chamber.
1:22:55 Speaker 02 So they excavated this, they found a pit in the Queen's Chamber that was filled with rubble and dirt. They excavated down into it and they found a shaft and tunnel system and chamber system located below the Queen's Chamber. It is now completely covered up and sealed with modern blocks. They covered up the hole permanently. Again, reported anecdotally and in some of the documents regarding the original excavations. And what they're showing here is actually the presence of a shaft system coming out of the bottom of the Queen's Chamber.
1:23:33 Jesse Michels? So that's very promising.
1:23:35 Speaker 02 And I proposed the same thing based on these archaeological reports in my book, that there is an extraction shaft and chamber system located below the Queen's Chamber. So again, when I saw this back in 2020, this was very promising and encouraging for me because they are corroborating hidden structures that are now completely covered up, which may actually exist inside of the pyramid. So I was very excited when I saw this originally. And they did a great model, which I'll show here in just a second, that shows that complete shaft and chamber system coming out of the Queen's Chamber.
1:24:14 Speaker 02 So I wanted to highlight this as a very possible substantiation of something that was reported, you know, in the late 1800s, early 1900s, when they were doing the original excavations, but has now been completely covered up and ignored and dismissed as not possible. But they are showing that potentially it could exist.
1:24:37 Speaker 01 And I just have to remark the fact that in this tomography, we are not observing the corridors, the shending corridors.
1:24:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:24:50 Speaker 01 There are two reasons. And maybe they can be both of them. The first one is that in order to detect those corridors, we have to be very sure that the tomographic line goes into intercept those corridors. Okay? And in that case, we need speed. We need the real time facility.
1:25:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:25:21 Speaker 01 Okay. The second is that probably it's not possible because the corridor is too small. Okay.
1:25:28 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:25:29 Speaker 01 But I am orientated to the first, to the first one, that the tomographic line we used is not perfectly oriented on the corridor because the corridor is very small.
1:25:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And I'll show a vertical diagram
1:25:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:25:45 Speaker 02 of the alignment of the chambers so that we can all take a look at that in relation to the discussion of the tomographic line. My only other point on this one is again, the subterranean chamber that's embedded in the bedrock
1:26:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:26:00 Speaker 02 is not detected in this scan.
1:26:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:26:03 Speaker 02 Which is a similar issue to what you had with the CAFRA project. Is that it's not able to detect this bedrock excavated chamber.
1:26:14 Speaker 02 Which is an issue when you extrapolate scanning into the bedrock to detect structures a kilometer underground.
1:26:23 Speaker 01 I tell you, a piece of corridor, it is possible to detect and to resist this.
1:26:28 Speaker 02 Here, I can do, I can do it here. Yeah. So, so basically what he's pointing at is sort of this line here.
1:26:33 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
1:26:34 Speaker 02 Right? But how can you differentiate from a scientific perspective between all of the background interference?
1:26:43 Speaker 01 With light, it is very important.
1:26:45 Speaker 02 Yeah, because there's a lot of background interference here.
1:26:48 Speaker 01 Yes, yes. When you are dealing with light, you have a laser. The laser travels the free space and goes to the target. You see the target very well because the light travels only the empty space and not the matter. Here, the acoustics are traveling in the matter. And matter is a mess. Is the matter that is underneath that is a mess. Not the acoustics that we are using to detect the matter. I don't know if I am explaining well.
1:27:24 Speaker 02 So the composition of the bedrock itself
1:27:27 Speaker 01 Is a mess.
1:27:28 Speaker 02 is interfering with the register of the signal.
1:27:31 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:27:33 Speaker 02 Okay, that's that's problematic.
1:27:37 Speaker 02 Because especially if you're trying to scan into a kilometer of bedrock.
1:27:42 Speaker 01 You you can do it this. Here we are dealing to retrieve information of things very small. Very small chambers.
1:27:53 Speaker 02 Sure, yeah, the passages is small, going down into the subterranean chambers.
1:27:57 Speaker 01 You can see them, but the background is composed by other targets.
1:28:02 Jesse Michels? But Filippo, maybe can you address the basic point Jeffrey's making? That the composition of the bedrock is important for the veracity or accuracy of the findings that you get. And so if there's any issues with certain bedrock in these readings, where granite is better than limestone, and you're trying to go through a kilometer, you know, deep of, what is it limestone?
1:28:28 Speaker 02 Bedrock, yeah, limestone.
1:28:29 Jesse Michels? Limestone bedrock, then then how are you able to be so confident?
1:28:33 Speaker 01 But in that case, we have detected, ah, this is very nice. In that case, we have detected things that were really predominant with respect to the bedrock, how you say, background detection. We will arrive to the, or we are.
1:28:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, I have everything.
1:28:55 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:28:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, I included, I included everything to make sure that people could see all of the information.
1:29:02 Speaker 01 But I think we have to do part one and part two.
1:29:05 Jesse Michels? I get what he's saying, which is like, if you control for the background micro vibrations being created by really, like, these are large megastructures. And so if you're trying to find a, you know, a small chamber, and then you could have issues on bedrock, even if the whole thing is happening superficially. Whereas if you're looking at megastructures.
1:29:29 Speaker 02 And this is also very different.
1:29:30 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:29:31 Speaker 02 The process in scanning from space.
1:29:35 Speaker 02 As compared to the vetted technology of muon scanning, which is done inside with detectors inside of the structure, you have to anticipate some flexibility in the ability to detect small components that, because again, you're scanning from a satellite from space. So there
1:29:54 Jesse Michels? Well, this is, this is, I mean, another really interesting question is all of your cases of validation involve structures that might be below the surface of the earth, but not this far below. Do you have validation that exists? In the case of things, I mean, obviously, like, it's hard to go a kilometer plus deep, just generally, I think, very, you know, very few mining and excavation sites have done that, but do you have any validation?
1:30:19 Speaker 01 No, I have.
1:30:20 Jesse Michels? That's gone that deep?
1:30:22 Speaker 01 I did a lot of pilot tests with companies. And more than hundred percent successful, but
1:30:30 Jesse Michels? Really?
1:30:30 Speaker 01 That's another, another because here we are dealing with
1:30:35 Jesse Michels? Sure. When you say, when you say pilot test?
1:30:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:30:38 Jesse Michels? With companies, so this is used in a commercial context?
1:30:41 Speaker 01 We are moving in commercial. Yes, absolutely. Yes.
1:30:44 Jesse Michels? Got it. Okay. And this is like mining and?
1:30:47 Speaker 01 Mining.
1:30:47 Jesse Michels? Okay. Then these are, I assume you have to be somewhat cheeky about this because you're under NDA or sort of thing. Okay.
1:30:53 Speaker 01 I am under NDA, so I can't say
1:30:55 Jesse Michels? But you have
1:30:56 Speaker 01 More than this.
1:30:56 Jesse Michels? But you have, you have a hundred percent success, like no, no one
1:31:00 Speaker 01 More than one hundred, more.
1:31:01 Jesse Michels? How do you go more than a hundred?
1:31:03 Speaker 01 They phone me every five minutes.
1:31:05 Jesse Michels? Okay. So they're really pumped to work with you.
1:31:08 Speaker 01 Say more than this.
1:31:10 Jesse Michels? And I mean, that's fascinating.
1:31:11 Speaker 02 The mining
1:31:12 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:31:13 Speaker 02 And metallurgical applications of the technology.
1:31:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:31:17 Speaker 02 Are directly applicable to the specific geology. Metal, there's metal ore mineral deposits all over the Giza Plateau.
1:31:25 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:31:25 Speaker 02 You're familiar, have, we have, I don't know if we've
1:31:27 Speaker 01 We speak about this because
1:31:29 Speaker 02 I'll show it.
1:31:29 Speaker 01 This is very interesting.
1:31:30 Speaker 02 I'll show it in just a minute because there's, there's iron ore. Metal mineral deposits all over and below the Giza Plateau.
1:31:39 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:31:39 Speaker 02 We have chemical analysis data from these iron veins. Hydrothermal mineral deposits embedded in the bedrock that are permeated with rare earth elements. Gold, silver, things like platinum and titanium have been discovered in these metal ore veins. Embedded in the bedrock of the Giza Plateau. So there's a direct correlation between the applications that he's describing for this technology. And the investigation of the truth of what's really below the Giza Plateau.
1:32:09 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:32:09 Speaker 02 We may differ on our interpretation about that. But we absolutely agree that there is something down there that is absolutely important to understand.
1:32:18 Jesse Michels? I always, I always love.
1:32:20 Speaker 01 I agree with you.
1:32:20 Jesse Michels? Yeah. I always love when I bump up against the limits of what Filippo can say because I do feel uh confidence coming from him that there's like a lot that isn't quite open source that you know may come both commercially and defense wise that he just can't really talk about.
1:32:36 Speaker 02 Sure. Yeah. And we've talked privately about that as well.
1:32:39 Jesse Michels? No, no, it's okay. It's okay. But uh yeah, again, unless you're like a great con man, which I don't, I don't think you are.
1:32:45 Speaker 02 Yeah. And my, my only question is in regard to this is the.
1:32:50 Speaker 01 The Queen's chamber. Look.
1:32:51 Speaker 02 Yes. But, but. What, what?
1:32:56 Speaker 01 That corridor.
1:32:57 Speaker 02 But what about?
1:32:58 Speaker 01 The story of that corridor.
1:32:59 Speaker 02 But what about the Grand Gallery? And the, but that's, that's good. But we're completely missing the Grand Gallery and the King's Chamber.
1:33:11 Speaker 01 I tell you why.
1:33:12 Speaker 02 So you have one out of three.
1:33:14 Jesse Michels? Well, let him, okay. So what? Yeah. Why do you think?
1:33:16 Speaker 01 Tell you why. We, we go back into the, uh, the, the, the things that I told, that I that, that we were discussing. Um, five minutes ago. In this tomographic line, you don't see the Grand Gallery, but the Grand Gallery is good that I don't see it because I can see the air that is inside the Grand Gallery is good. The Grand Gallery is a tube like that.
1:33:44 Speaker 02 Correct.
1:33:44 Speaker 01 A rectangular tube.
1:33:45 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:33:46 Speaker 01 The top of the Grand Gallery, then you have the air, blue, and then.
1:33:52 Speaker 01 And then I don't see nothing. I see the the the Queen's chamber. It's it's good like that. You move the topographic line, you integrate
1:34:05 Jesse Michels? Sure.
1:34:05 Speaker 01 and you perform a 3D reconstruction.
1:34:07 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:34:08 Speaker 01 But to do this, we need the computer, Jeffrey.
1:34:10 Jesse Michels? Right, right.
1:34:10 Speaker 01 We need a rise of of GPUs that at the moment I don't.
1:34:14 Jesse Michels? What's the word you're using? Arise of GPUs?
1:34:17 Speaker 01 Arise, no.
1:34:19 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:34:19 Speaker 01 A mainframe like that.
1:34:20 Jesse Michels? An array of GPUs. That's what I thought.
1:34:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm laughing.
1:34:24 Jesse Michels? No, no, no, it's okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you need you need more compute essentially, and you need to do this, be able to do this in real time, live.
1:34:31 Speaker 01 If I have thousands of GPU, we can do it.
1:34:34 Jesse Michels? So how how much, out of curiosity, how much money would that require?
1:34:38 Speaker 01 I don't, I I can't tell you. I don't know.
1:34:42 Jesse Michels? What if there's an investor in the audience that wants to help you out? How would, is there a certain amount that would help you?
1:34:48 Speaker 01 Maybe with, I don't know, with, I don't know, I don't, millions, millions, the over millions, yes.
1:34:57 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:34:58 Speaker 01 We can, we can, we can have, we will speak about the foundation that we are standing in Malta, is set, setting up in Malta. We have a, we have rented a nice place where we have installed a solar power plant, power station. And inside there, we we would like to to set up a data center. And there, if we have donors, we can buy
1:35:37 Speaker 01 a mainframe with a rise, with an array of GPUs.
1:35:42 Jesse Michels? Well, we should, just for humanity, somebody should, somebody should do this not for for profit, but just to.
1:35:48 Speaker 01 No, for the human, no, no.
1:35:49 Jesse Michels? Just to like.
1:35:49 Speaker 01 The foundation.
1:35:50 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:35:51 Speaker 01 Works.
1:35:51 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:35:52 Speaker 01 Philanthropic.
1:35:53 Jesse Michels? No, it's it's it's, it seems like money well spent if you're, you know, you want to go kind of Carnegie Gospel of wealth. You know, this this should be like the first on your list. So and and what you're working on too.
1:36:04 Speaker 01 With the three computers that you saw in my house, we can do this.
1:36:08 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah. So, but what do you say, Jeffrey, to?
1:36:11 Speaker 01 And they are also expensive, eh?
1:36:13 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:36:13 Speaker 01 Those computers.
1:36:14 Jesse Michels? Got it. Oh, there you go. Okay, that's established. Uh, Jeffrey, what do you say to Filippo's point that the Grand Gallery is actually detected? It's just one vertical slice and you see, you do see the air.
1:36:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'll get to that in just a second. Yeah.
1:36:28 Speaker 01 You see that the Grand Gallery is blue because you have air inside of the Grand Gallery.
1:36:35 Speaker 02 Yeah. So I guess he's saying here.
1:36:37 Speaker 01 That's the Grand Gallery. Inside of the Grand Gallery. It's vacant inside. Okay.
1:36:41 Speaker 02 So, the other things I wanted to point out here, so this signature above.
1:36:45 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:36:46 Speaker 02 And this big signature here.
1:36:47 Speaker 01 That's the Big Void.
1:36:48 Speaker 02 The Big Void.
1:36:49 Speaker 01 Yes, and we have detected the Big Void also.
1:36:51 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
1:36:52 Speaker 01 That's the Big Void.
1:36:52 Speaker 02 And we'll get to that in a comparison between the location of the Big Void suggested by the Muon team and the position that has been detected by the SAR team. It's slightly different. The...
1:37:07 Speaker 01 In my personal opinion, that is the Big Void.
1:37:09 Speaker 02 This one?
1:37:10 Speaker 01 Because it's located...
1:37:10 Speaker 02 Or the big one here?
1:37:11 Speaker 01 There, the big one there.
1:37:12 Speaker 02 The big one?
1:37:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:13 Speaker 02 Okay, so the Muon team is saying that it's located directly above the Grand Gallery. The position of the Big Void, that they're actually gonna be excavating into the Great Pyramid in 2026 to investigate the Big Void. So an actual exploration is coming up to get a chance to see what's in there. So again, I'm just objectively looking at these things. I do agree, there's a fantastic signature here. And we talked about this too, Filippo, at the Malta conference, that it's a difference in the slice.
1:37:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:46 Speaker 02 If you move the slice, you might be able to better, better detect it. So another thing here is tag 17 and 18.
1:37:53 Speaker 01 That's fantastic in my personal opinion.
1:37:55 Speaker 02 Which is...
1:37:55 Speaker 01 Very nice.
1:37:56 Speaker 02 Um, I have it again in a slide. Okay, so let's look at the position.
1:38:02 Speaker 02 So here is the configuration of the Great Pyramid. And this is the vertical alignment of the chambers. So you can see, if you were to scan the tomographic line at the far left of the King's Chamber. Yeah. You would only pick up the King's Chamber and not pick up any of the other stuff. If you scan on the far right of the King's Chamber, you should pick up all of the components. Because everything would be aligned in the same tomographic slice. Yep. You cannot detect the King's Chamber without also picking up the Grand Gallery, Queen's Chamber, subterranean.
1:38:44 Speaker 01 Multiple scans.
1:38:44 Speaker 02 Correct, correct, yeah. There's also.
1:38:47 Speaker 01 It's all by the array of GPUs.
1:38:49 Speaker 02 Sure, but there's, this is, this is kind of an explanation for why that may be the case. Is the different slices that break it down. Could have been on the left. You may do a slice down the middle that picks up the King's Chamber and the Queen's Chamber. Here and here, but it doesn't pick up the Grand Gallery. Yep. So this is an explanation for why we get register of certain chambers with different tomographic lines. Because we're just slicing down the middle. And the slice doesn't always land on all three simultaneously. Okay, so the next one here is the discovery of this new passage. Yeah. Right on the northern side of the Great Pyramid. They just drilled.
1:39:33 Speaker 01 I have to say this, we discovered it for the first, for the first time.
1:39:37 Speaker 02 So. That's amazing. Is that true? So what we're, so let me explain what we have here. So we have tag seventeen and tag eighteen, which is showing this little passage here.
1:39:47 Speaker 01 That's the corridor.
1:39:47 Speaker 02 Yep, yep, right here. And it starts right here, under the chevrons, which is where they found this passage. And we have an overlay of the chevrons and the new passage that was discovered. My only issue on this is that the signature actually starts out here.
1:40:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. Those are multiple reflections of the radar.
1:40:12 Speaker 02 So reflections of the radar.
1:40:14 Speaker 01 Multiple reflection, the interaction of the electromagnetic waves from the floor of the pyramid. And the pyramid can give you multiple reflection, it's normal. And that multiple reflections are affects also the tomographic line.
1:40:29 Speaker 02 Okay, so you're saying reflections of the radar
1:40:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:40:33 Speaker 02 can create signatures that would appear similar
1:40:37 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:40:38 Speaker 02 to the signature of an actual chamber.
1:40:40 Speaker 01 No, can be mitigated, only having multiple scans. And so you can average your results and you see absolutely better.
1:40:49 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:40:50 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:40:50 Speaker 02 Okay, I'm with you, yeah, alright.
1:40:53 Speaker 01 It's simple, the best signature you have, you have it on the chevron, the chevron. And you are detecting the chevron, look.
1:41:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, here, right here.
1:41:03 Speaker 01 Why I'm saying you multiple reflection? Because you have the pyramid, then you have the chevron like that, and you have the other, the... And there you have such multipath of the radar.
1:41:13 Jesse Michels? Are you saying that Tag 18 wasn't even known by conventional?
1:41:17 Speaker 02 No, no, it was, it was known, the chevrons are visible on the outside.
1:41:21 Speaker 01 Tag 17 was not known.
1:41:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, so they recently...
1:41:23 Jesse Michels? And what is Tag 17?
1:41:24 Speaker 02 It's just, it's a dead end shaft, you can see the overlay of it here.
1:41:28 Speaker 01 A corridor.
1:41:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, so they recently...
1:41:30 Jesse Michels? That's remarkable that he, he discovered it, basically through the, is that correct?
1:41:34 Speaker 01 Before that.
1:41:35 Speaker 02 They detected it, yeah, this was, this was detected by the team in 2020. And they recently went inside of this with a microscopic camera, they drilled in below the chevrons to look into this dead end, it's a dead end shaft on the northern side of the Great Pyramid.
1:41:51 Jesse Michels? That's impressive.
1:41:52 Speaker 01 And if you go to the result and you, if you switch off the overlay, you can detect also the top of the corridor and the floor of the corridor, there are two lines.
1:42:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, the top here and the bottom here, yeah.
1:42:09 Speaker 01 And you can measure also. And if you compare the measurements with the video, because they scanned it, are the same. And then you see that is nine meters long, I don't remember, but it's nine meters long. There is something, a piece of stone that goes, but here you can see what there is over that piece of stone, which is, I tell you.
1:42:35 Speaker 02 Here.
1:42:35 Speaker 01 This one. And I I am waiting somebody that is discovering that anti-camera.
1:42:41 Jesse Michels? Anti-camera, anti-chamber, what?
1:42:43 Speaker 01 Anti-chamber, it's a chamber, I call it anti-camera, it's a chamber.
1:42:47 Jesse Michels? Okay.
1:42:48 Speaker 01 And that chamber goes directly to the Grand Gallery.
1:42:54 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
1:42:54 Speaker 01 Okay? And then allows you in my, for me, also to go naturally to the big void. That is the real, the real position on the big void is that one.
1:43:06 Jesse Michels? Hmm, okay.
1:43:07 Speaker 01 Jeffrey, the future will, will give what?
1:43:10 Jesse Michels? Sure.
1:43:10 Speaker 01 What can, what?
1:43:11 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:43:11 Speaker 02 Now you're actually.
1:43:12 Speaker 01 To give.
1:43:13 Jesse Michels? You are, you are sneaking a claim, that's, I love it.
1:43:16 Speaker 02 So Matt Bell.
1:43:17 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:43:17 Speaker 02 From the Limitless Podcast.
1:43:19 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:43:19 Speaker 02 Is involved in financing of the development of robotics to investigate the shafts in the Queen's Chamber.
1:43:28 Jesse Michels? Cool.
1:43:28 Speaker 02 They're going to be sending a robot up the northern shaft to drill in the comparable feature known as Gatton Brink's door, which was investigated in the southern shaft. They're going to be drilling through a new piece with a new robot on the northern side. And they're also collaborating on the investigation of the big void. So they will be, hopefully, it's been approved, but everything keeps getting pushed back and pushed back and pushed back and pushed back as things happen in Egypt, supposedly on the table for 2026, that they're actually going to be drilling into and investigating the big void.
1:44:05 Jesse Michels? That's remarkable, and I think, you know, it sounds like Filippo's making a prediction there. I also think, I do think it's amazing that Tag 17, this corridor dead-end shaft, he's sort of, you know, you know, they made a claim there and they found it.
1:44:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, so this was 2020, this was before the, the recent, I believe this was detected with the Muon scans.
1:44:27 Jesse Michels? Yes.
1:44:27 Speaker 02 The Muon scanning, so the Muon Group.
1:44:30 Jesse Michels? Yes.
1:44:30 Speaker 02 The Scan Pyramids Project is the.
1:44:34 Speaker 02 Sanctioned and approved scanning team that they have used for these projects. They really only collaborate with this scan pyramids team. You know, we were just talking off camera about how much we're both enjoying this conversation. And a lot of people have have misinterpreted my questioning of the data as disbelief or an attempt to debunk. But that's not really the case at all. And they just, they don't understand that we have an existing relationship. And again,
1:45:10 Speaker 01 It is, it is true that we, it's good that we discuss about the results because the results is not like a religion. No, it is something that we can discuss.
1:45:19 Jesse Michels? I love that. Yeah. First, the fact that you're saying it's not a sacred cow or a third rail. It's just a thing you can talk about and, you know, you can criticize and you can defend and, you know, it's all good. That's a beautiful thing, that commitment to the kind of, you know, Socratic process. But I was also, Jeffrey and I were talking, I think a lot of these discussions go into like, it's like, it's always framed as adversarial. It's always, it's always, you know, skeptic and debunker versus, you know, person making some bold claim. And then the person, the skeptic doesn't even look at the assertions and make first principles arguments. It turns into this kind of, it devolves into ad hominem's.
1:45:59 Jesse Michels? And you get into these high level heuristics of probabilistically, this thing can't be true or whatever. And what I love about this conversation is, and then we can get out of the meta and get back into the first principle. But it, it's that you are really just asking questions that I think everybody wants to know that are at the first principles. Yeah. Level. And they're reasonable questions.
1:46:21 Speaker 02 I'm captivated by this process. Again, when I found this in 2022, I was like, this is super important. Whether it's true or it's not, it's the development of new technology and an approach that could eventually be implemented into something very significant, which is the purpose of all the videos that I've made about this, have prefaced it with saying, this is the type of technology we need. We're on the precipice of a greater understanding using unique methodology to understand the structures that's going to get us to the deeper understanding.
1:46:54 Jesse Michels? Yes.
1:46:55 Speaker 02 And Filippo, you said during the conversation that it's still in the initial stages. And there's improvements that can be made with the technology, further investigations that need to happen.
1:47:05 Speaker 01 We need hardware. We need a lot of hardware. Hardware and power.
1:47:08 Jesse Michels? Can I ask one thing, actually, before we get back into this, which is, speaking of skeptics, I did watch Flint Dibble's video about you, and I found a lot of it to be a little ridiculous. But there were certain points he made, which I think were
1:47:23 Speaker 01 We can discuss now if you remember the
1:47:25 Jesse Michels? I do remember. I remember one, one point which I found very valid. Well, one of the points was like, it's too hot to build that deep. It's too hot to build artificial structure. So that felt reasonable, and we can get to that.
1:47:37 Speaker 01 It is connected to the, the, the heat is connected to our research project that the third part of this, of this research going in C2, but we will discuss at the end of this conversation.
1:47:51 Jesse Michels? Okay, okay. So a little teaser there. No, no, no. So yeah, let's, let's definitely circle back on that. And then the second one, which I think relates more to this discussion we were just, you know, having around the commercial use cases of this technology, is he said you let your patents expire? Is that true?
1:48:07 Speaker 01 Yes. My initial patent at the moment is expired. Absolutely, yes. Maybe we can recover this. In the United States, we give you a grace period in order to recover this patent. Maybe we will do it. But I am, I have submitted a second patent, which I can't disclose the, the things, but I have submitted a second patent that deals is connected to the first patent. And gives huge novelty, but I can't speak about this.
1:48:46 Jesse Michels? Would fair. Yeah, you definitely should.
1:48:48 Speaker 01 Because it's a disclosure.
1:48:49 Jesse Michels? Yeah, no, no, don't telegraph your IP. I think the question I would have is if the first patent is in some way related to the second patent.
1:48:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:48:59 Jesse Michels? And I'm it might be a gateway if I'm a scientist and I figure out what's going on in the first patent, which you have telegraphed, it is in the USPTO.
1:49:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:49:07 Jesse Michels? I read it, it helps me figure out the second patent. Why wouldn't you also try to maintain the first patent and just keep enforcing it?
1:49:15 Speaker 01 Yes, but I tell you, Jesse, the question of patent or in the commercial or in the philanthropic, I want to work on the philanthropic and also in the commercial because I like to to work with my technique. It's for me is very exciting. But yes, the patent will give you the rights to be only the alone to only me. Give me the rights to commercialize exclusively this technique. Okay. But the important thing is also the technology that is behind the the the software, no? The software is crucial in this in this in this deal. So.
1:49:57 Jesse Michels? Got it.
1:49:59 Speaker 01 Yes, pardon, no pardon, but you you need the software.
1:50:02 Jesse Michels? Okay, yeah, and and and that's a good answer because you speak to most people in fields of aerospace or kind of hard science and they'll always say patents are barely enforceable. There it's really it's really about trade secrets and it's about knowing how to do something that no one else is going to figure out. It's not really about the patent. So I appreciate you addressing that.
1:50:25 Speaker 01 Is not is not so important, but and now we have a second patent.
1:50:32 Speaker 01 But the the crucial point here is the technology and the technology is made by hardware and software.
1:50:38 Jesse Michels? Yeah, it's it's funny. It's like, you know, I don't know. Why would you go out and make a YouTube video and just in this shrill way start like, you know, yelling at you instead of. Just be like, hey, Filippo, like, my name's Flint. Like, you know, like, why did you let your patents expire? Because that that answer, you know, you have a reasonable response there. So I don't know. It's interesting. But Jeffrey, I think you should continue with your kind of first principles questioning.
1:51:05 Speaker 02 Well, I think this is why this conversation is working because like we're friends. Like we've met before and we've spent personal time together. The important thing for me, as I've shown in this presentation, is that if we do have novel structures, it's critical that they can be interpreted into a functional hypothesis. For example, the shaft system below the Queen's Chamber. It's been reported in archaeological documents and you should have a model that interprets that into the function of the structure, which I've shown it's part of the extraction shaft system that was used to remove the product solution from the Great Pyramid.
1:51:46 Speaker 02 So I have done that in my work is entertaining these ideas, although speculative at this point because we haven't done actual archaeological excavations to prove any of this yet. I've taken it and incorporated it in a hypothetical working model where these new structures actually fit with what I've proposed. For example, the big void, it's in a perfect location for a heat exchanger. Right? Anytime you have exothermic reactions within a structure or an operating chemical manufacturing apparatus, you want a mechanism that can remove some of that thermal energy from the system.
1:52:26 Speaker 02 And the big void, although it's shown by the Muon team in a little bit different position, located above the Grand Gallery is the ideal position for a heat exchanger that would remove some of that thermal energy from the reaction in the Grand Gallery, which we can get into much deeper depth. You know, whether which one comes out first, we don't know quite yet, but we'll get into much more depth on the function of the Great Pyramid and how this new void, it's definitely real. Right, we've detected it with the muon scanning. You've you've found it already and they're 100% gonna go in there and investigate it.
1:53:02 Speaker 01 Which is the exact shape of the
1:53:05 Speaker 02 Right.
1:53:05 Speaker 01 Where it is exactly meter, a meter on the left, a meter on the on the right, but there is
1:53:11 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:53:11 Speaker 01 A big void, it is.
1:53:13 Speaker 02 So that's actually a good transition, yeah.
1:53:15 Speaker 01 But it's very probable.
1:53:17 Speaker 02 So, you know, we've talked about the initial scans. Here on the left is the first of the 3D models. So before what we had is an overlay of the processed focus data
1:53:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:53:29 Speaker 02 On top of existing archaeological diagrams. What we have now are the new 3D models that Filippo, can you explain how these 3D models were developed? Who made these and how were they created?
1:53:45 Speaker 01 The 3D model was done by the authors of the paper. So it was done by Corrado and me.
1:53:52 Speaker 02 Right.
1:53:52 Speaker 01 Together.
1:53:53 Speaker 02 Right. So basically what they've done is take the focused data and interpreted it into a new model showing all of these features that they have discovered, which we'll get into that now. So talking about the position of the big void. Okay, so again, the scan pyramids project and this muon scanning. So muon scanning involves cosmic ray absorption. These cosmic rays that come down from the atmosphere. There's a a series of detection devices that are put inside the pyramid. You can see them here in the Queen's chamber and they also have some on the outside of the pyramid on the northern side.
1:54:36 Speaker 02 And essentially, these muon detectors detect the absorption and diffraction of these muon rays that are passing through the pyramid structure. Right, so these cosmic rays actually do permeate the structure. The chambers will reflect them in different directions and the detectors monitor the difference between the body of the pyramid and the chambers of the pyramid. Which, by the way.
1:55:04 Jesse Michels? I will say it's an energy matter conversion that's going on there, too. And so it's similar, you know, for the people who are like, you can't derive matter through like, you know, energetic means, like, you know, it's sort of, you know, somewhat analogous technique.
1:55:17 Speaker 02 So in this instance, they're just using natural energetic electromagnetic energy that's coming from the atmosphere. Muons, yeah, cosmic rays.
1:55:26 Speaker 01 Cosmic rays, not electromagnetic.
1:55:28 Speaker 02 Okay, so can you clarify the difference?
1:55:31 Speaker 01 But it's the same, it's the same, the principle is the same.
1:55:33 Jesse Michels? Right, is a cosmic ray not electromagnetic?
1:55:36 Speaker 01 No, no, no, electromagnetic are photons, light.
1:55:40 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
1:55:41 Speaker 01 Cosmic rays are particles that are very small that penetrates matter.
1:55:45 Jesse Michels? Like, I think I associate cosmic rays with neutrons. Is that roughly?
1:55:50 Speaker 01 And the neutron is very big.
1:55:52 Jesse Michels? Or cosmic radiation?
1:55:53 Speaker 01 It's very big, it's very big. Neutron is like a bullet that it's very big and it is the principle of.
1:56:00 Jesse Michels? So what particles would you associate with cosmic rays?
1:56:06 Speaker 01 Neutron, neutron is a big bullet. Big one. That is the principal actor of the fission in nuclear energy production, reaction, okay? Because the neutron goes to another atom that splits the atom of uranium. It splits and generates other trine neutrons that goes to split other atoms. And so the chain reaction is activated after a so-called critical mass, okay?
1:56:45 Speaker 01 Of uranium-235 that has been enriched at least from 25% up to 90%. It depends of the application. In the civilian application, so in civilian, so power plants, atomic power plants, not nuclear, atomic power plants are 20, 20, 25, 28% of enrichment. Now for maybe less 15% enrichment. I don't remember exactly the number. And then you can go also in 90% for other kind of application.
1:57:30 Speaker 01 Muons are smaller.
1:57:33 Speaker 01 So they penetrate the, the, um, the huge mass of the, of the pyramid. But while they are traveling along a line of sight, when they, uh, when they find, avoid the law of, um, uh, refraction.
1:57:54 Speaker 02 Refraction, yeah.
1:57:55 Speaker 01 They can change slightly the orientation of the, uh, of the, of, of, of the pet. Like that, tak. And so the detectors can, will detect in a history of these moons while are traveling the, um, uh, the, uh, pyramid. The good thing is that moons are, uh, free because they are the cosmic ray and they are very, they are, it is like a transmission that is parallel because they come from very far and so they are parallel. It's a parallel transmission. So it is like a plain wave in the electromagnetics.
1:58:40 Speaker 01 In the term of signal processing, I can do it blind, though that signal processing is a very basic signal processing that they use. Uh, on the, the detectors are detecting the moons and so you have a history, a history of integration because I think that they, that they, that they has to be there months.
1:59:03 Speaker 02 Yeah, it sits there for a long time. Yeah, it's correct.
1:59:05 Speaker 01 Integration of months.
1:59:09 Speaker 01 The difference between moons and my technique is, it's not so different because you have to do, you have to focus the raw data there. You have to do an F F T in order to retrieve the, the tomographic slice that belongs between. The tomographic line is, is due by the detectors that are be, be, that are in the, in the chamber. And what you see is the vertical curtain that starts from the detector to the end of the pyramid. That's the, the, your, your tomography. Only there.
1:59:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:59:44 Speaker 01 And in six months, I don't know how many tomographic slices you, you can retrieve. It depends on the, um, on the detector width that you have inside the chamber.
1:59:58 Speaker 02 Yeah. So this muon technology is the accepted and utilized archaeological procedure for detecting these internal chambers. And as you can see here, they had these muon scanning devices and the detectors set up in the Queen's Chamber, and they were investigating the presence of this big void. And you can see here, a big, so again, to clarify the difference, the muons actually do penetrate the body of the structure, and the detectors are measuring the difference in the reflection and the absorption of the rays as they pass through the various chambers. And they only show, so they don't show, like Filippo's work does, a two dimensional slice.
2:00:42 Speaker 02 So it doesn't have the same tomographic line capability. The raw data that they show in this paper is only a top down view, because that's the way the detectors are looking, right? So they're looking up.
2:00:56 Speaker 01 But because they don't know how to do it. Because you can't, I don't, I don't say anything now, because you can do also tomography with that. They don't know how to do it.
2:01:05 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:01:06 Speaker 01 Because you can do, but I don't, I don't say things that then they, they can replicate.
2:01:11 Speaker 02 Yeah. And that's why I incorporated this, because I wanted to hear your professional interpretation and opinion on this accepted technology, and the reason why there might be a difference in what they're showing versus what you're showing. Because there has to be an explanation.
2:01:29 Speaker 01 That's a two dimensional horizontal plane, not vertical plane. But it's good.
2:01:34 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:01:34 Speaker 01 We can, we can interpret it like that. But you can do also using muons, also tomography. You can do it.
2:01:41 Jesse Michels? Can we get a little context on who's doing the muon scans and when?
2:01:45 Speaker 02 So this has been going on, so I'm certainly no expert in this. This paper is published by, they work with a Japanese team that's been sponsoring and providing the funding for all of this, working in conjunction with the Ministry of Antiquities. And I think this was published, I don't have the publishing date, but this was, um.
2:02:05 Jesse Michels? But muon detection generally in the context of the great, great. Or the Giza Plateau, rather, would date back to like the 70s, I believe.
2:02:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, so they actually.
2:02:16 Jesse Michels? Luis Walter Alvarez.
2:02:17 Speaker 02 They Muon scanned the central pyramid back in the 70s. And I have that paper in here as well. So we can discuss the Muon scanning of the central pyramid compared to the new SAR scanning.
2:02:29 Jesse Michels? And this was.
2:02:30 Speaker 02 I'm not, again, I'm not an expert in the technology. That's why I would defer to Filippo to answer the question.
2:02:36 Speaker 01 You, you went in detail about this paper because you are now explaining me. How, how we can read their data, their results.
2:02:47 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:02:47 Speaker 01 That is important.
2:02:48 Speaker 02 Yeah, and again, I, I wanted to be as transparent as possible.
2:02:52 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:02:52 Speaker 02 In the conversation where I present all of the information that we have. To analyze all of it in conjunction with what the SAR team has presented. And this is just the opposing technology that has been conventionally accepted. Because again, SAR is new, it's controversial, people are either loving it or hating it. But this is the accepted technology.
2:03:17 Jesse Michels? SAR dopotomography is, yeah.
2:03:18 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah, yeah, and the Muon scanning is accepted within the archaeological community. As the established methodology for scanning internal chambers.
2:03:27 Jesse Michels? And just add a little context, I think the original guy was Luis Walter Alvarez. Who was not only extremely high up in the Manhattan Project and instrumental in, you know, nuclear fishing and, and creating the atom bomb. But he and his son actually developed this theory that dinosaurs were wiped off the face of the earth due to an asteroid impact and it wasn't really accepted for a long time.
2:03:51 Speaker 02 I think, I want to say this paper, I'll, I'll look at the, the, the name sounds familiar. And he may be the author of this, because it was during the 1970s.
2:03:59 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:03:59 Speaker 02 When they Muon scanned the central pyramid.
2:04:01 Jesse Michels? So this was this idea that 66 million years ago, you had this, you know, big asteroid impact and it wasn't. Really respected until until later on. And so I do think the muon scanning was always a little bit more accepted, but it is it is interesting, you know, that things start stigmatized and then they they often
2:04:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, so this
2:04:19 Speaker 01 This technique you can't separate, and this is important that I I have to do, it's good. I love this technique. But you can't separate vertical layers. So you see, you are watching here the sum of all the vertical layers composing the pyramid.
2:04:37 Speaker 02 The layers, the layers, yeah, vertical layers.
2:04:40 Speaker 01 No, vertically, no, sorry, horizontally, vertically.
2:04:43 Speaker 02 Right, right, yeah.
2:04:44 Speaker 01 The vertically sum of all the horizontal layers that the sensitivity, probably cone sensitivity.
2:04:52 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:04:53 Speaker 01 The detectors are watching.
2:04:55 Speaker 02 Correct. And they also mentioned this in the other paper. The cone of detection is mentioned in the paper regarding the central pyramid scan. So what we're looking at here is again, it's the focused processed data of the muon detection process. And and what we have here, A.
2:05:14 Speaker 01 They can detect a pseudo vertical sensitivity by using two or more observations. So you put a detector here.
2:05:25 Speaker 02 Correct. Yeah, you can see the two.
2:05:27 Speaker 01 Detector there.
2:05:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:05:28 Speaker 01 And you and you perform photogrammetry in the muon domain. With photogrammetry, they can, let's say, with an approximation, that twice the approximation of the position of the big void, because they are not sure, because you have a base of difference, of difference in viewing in the muon domain.
2:05:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, so the view angle of the muon detectors. You can see here that the one placed inside the the Queen's Chamber is looking up. And then they have the second detector on the northern face so that it's looking up in this direction and then into the structure so that they can do a comparison between what's detected on scanner A and scanner B to to come up with a composite image of the location of this new void. So again, I thought this was important to include, and this is the data. So A is the signature on all four of these of the King's Chamber.
2:06:35 Speaker 02 B is the location of the Grand Gallery. And here is the detection of the new void. So they're showing it again, this is not very reassuring either.
2:06:47 Speaker 01 I don't understand.
2:06:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
2:06:50 Speaker 01 I'm sorry, Jeffrey, but my results are better than this.
2:06:54 Speaker 02 Well, no, I, Felipe, that's why I put this in here was for the exact reason.
2:06:59 Speaker 01 We say, chiedi all'oste se il vino è buono in Roma, in Latin.
2:07:04 Speaker 02 You said that during the presentation and I still have no idea.
2:07:07 Speaker 01 Come chiede, I tell you, I will translate, but to all the Italians is, come chiede all'oste se il vino è buono? Is like asking the owner of the restaurant if his wine is good.
2:07:24 Speaker 02 So that's why.
2:07:25 Jesse Michels? You're doing Sardopler tomography over muons all day, muon detection.
2:07:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:07:30 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:07:30 Speaker 02 So that's why I put this in here is for the layperson.
2:07:33 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:07:34 Speaker 02 Right. Who's looking at Filippo's data and they're saying, I can't understand anything of what I'm seeing here. It just looks like a bunch of mess.
2:07:41 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:07:41 Speaker 02 If you look at this, this looks like a bunch of mess too. Right. And you really have to have an expert at that particular scanning technology. Do a detailed assessment of what we're actually looking at here.
2:07:55 Jesse Michels? Even.
2:07:55 Speaker 02 But this, the reason I put this in is, is this is the, the data that they have used to justify the archaeological excavations that will occur. To investigate the big void. This is what it looks like.
2:08:10 Jesse Michels? Oh, yeah, I mean.
2:08:10 Speaker 02 It's like, what the hell are we looking at?
2:08:12 Speaker 01 Nice boy, big boy.
2:08:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, it's like, so when I, I, I pulled this up after I did Danny's show.
2:08:17 Speaker 01 A big mess, a big boy.
2:08:18 Speaker 02 We were talking, yeah, yeah, exactly.
2:08:21 Jesse Michels? No, it looks like abstract, it looks like a nice album cover to me.
2:08:24 Speaker 02 Yeah. Because I wanted to see, I'm a stickler for looking at the raw data. I don't like looking at the models. I don't like, you know, I want to see the actual, show me what the scans show. Like we were talking about with the labyrinth in Hawara scan.
2:08:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:08:37 Speaker 02 Show me the actual scan.
2:08:38 Jesse Michels? Well, this was, I mean, I don't want to get too off course. We'll bring this up in our one on one, but you, you, you mentioned to me right before the podcast, I was like, what about the?
2:10:59 Speaker 02 Well, I think it would also be a way, because muons are more tried and true and accepted in a conventional scientific sense, that for them, that would be like, oh, this pattern matches, you know, like what we are deriving from the muon detection. I think where it gets tough is, you know, trying to get a kilometer deep with the muons. I think that's
2:11:20 Speaker 01 But once, yes, yes, that's true, because you have to go one kilometer.
2:11:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, you can't do that.
2:11:25 Speaker 01 Install the detector and then you see what there is.
2:11:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, and for that, you need the Ministry of Culture to let you go down there and do that.
2:11:32 Speaker 01 With a collaboration, not the separation, a collaboration. So I work with you, you work with me. We share what we have, we share our knowledge and our gaps.
2:11:46 Speaker 02 Love it.
2:11:46 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:11:47 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:11:47 Speaker 01 And so sharing knowledge and gaps, I think things will work better.
2:11:51 Speaker 02 Right.
2:11:52 Speaker 01 In my personal opinion.
2:11:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So, so my next question here, and as we'll see in just a moment, the SAR team has detected some features that go around the King's Chamber. Filippo, you
2:12:07 Speaker 01 So that is the King's Chamber.
2:12:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, here A.
2:12:09 Speaker 01 They say that A is the King's Chamber.
2:12:11 Speaker 02 Correct. And as I'll show, you know what I'm talking about, the features that go around the King's Chamber. So why do you think that they haven't shown that when you're picking it up on your data? And I'll fast forward a little bit here. This 3D diagram.
2:12:29 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:12:30 Speaker 02 So here is the big void.
2:12:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:12:32 Speaker 02 You're showing it more transverse.
2:12:34 Speaker 01 Transverse, like that, yes.
2:12:36 Speaker 02 They're depicting it as more longitudinal. Their, their scans show it north to south.
2:12:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:12:42 Speaker 02 Yours is showing it east to west.
2:12:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:12:44 Speaker 02 And you're detecting these features that are possibly connected into the big void.
2:12:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:12:50 Speaker 02 That go around
2:12:51 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:12:52 Speaker 02 The King's Chamber. This is the King's Chamber here at the center.
2:12:55 Speaker 01 The
2:12:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, the top of the King's Chamber.
2:12:57 Speaker 01 The top of the King's
2:12:58 Speaker 02 Correct, yeah.
2:12:59 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:12:59 Speaker 02 And then
2:12:59 Speaker 01 Ah, okay.
2:13:00 Speaker 02 And then you have this feature here.
2:13:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, we can also overlap the results of the muon with that.
2:13:07 Speaker 02 Right, right, yeah.
2:13:08 Speaker 01 We can put it
2:13:09 Speaker 02 Correct.
2:13:09 Speaker 01 One on.
2:13:10 Speaker 02 So my question is,
2:13:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:13:12 Speaker 02 Why is nothing like that shown here when you are detecting it on your data?
2:13:21 Speaker 01 I don't know why, because they are not able to detect things. Jeffrey, in that results.
2:13:29 Speaker 01 I'm a scientist, so I am very used to read the mess.
2:13:34 Jesse Michels? Yes.
2:13:34 Speaker 01 Information inside things that that I'm seeing nothing there.
2:13:39 Jesse Michels? Can I, can I ask it differently?
2:13:41 Speaker 01 I'm sorry, but I, I, I, I'm seeing nothing.
2:13:44 Speaker 02 No, I agree. This is, this is very difficult to read.
2:13:48 Jesse Michels? Can I ask it differently?
2:13:49 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:13:49 Jesse Michels? Are, are there other examples of things where muon detection fell short as far as predicting a structure uh that we know existed? We know the structure existed. Muons fell short.
2:14:01 Speaker 02 There's another comparison coming up here in just a moment of the scan results where it's not showing something.
2:14:08 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:14:08 Speaker 02 That the SAR team. So again, there's, there hasn't been much competition in the archaeological space.
2:14:15 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:14:15 Speaker 02 Where we're comparing these different technologies. So now we're in a unique position where there is a competitor technology to the muon scanning. Where we're saying, okay, this is showing this. This isn't showing it. Sometimes this, you know, so there's this is.
2:14:30 Jesse Michels? But I mean, in any archaeological or scientific context, like, because that would be really helpful because if it's like, muons never miss. Then I'm like, okay, you got a false positive on the Sardoppler demography.
2:14:41 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:14:41 Jesse Michels? If it's like, but there are a few times where muons do miss in these other cases. I do think that's illustrated.
2:14:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And, and again, I would love to see some control. Yeah. So we have a king's chamber here and I could move the.
2:14:53 Speaker 01 Oh, that's the king's chamber.
2:14:54 Speaker 02 Kings, this is the king's chamber A. And this is the grand gallery here. And what Filippo's team is detecting is a structure that goes around the king's chamber here and.
2:15:05 Speaker 01 But I think as I saw in, in those results, in these horizontal pictures, more pictures, which I repeat is the sum of all the horizontal layers that I tell here publicly. The research team of Muon Team, there is a method to discriminate the different layers.
2:15:29 Speaker 02 Right.
2:15:29 Speaker 01 They are not applied.
2:15:30 Speaker 02 To pull slices.
2:15:31 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:15:31 Speaker 02 They're just looking at the composite image.
2:15:33 Speaker 01 The sum.
2:15:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, correct.
2:15:35 Speaker 01 You can, you can do it.
2:15:36 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:15:37 Speaker 01 They can do it.
2:15:37 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:15:38 Speaker 01 Maybe I can move.
2:15:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it.
2:15:41 Speaker 01 Go. So, this, this is the top of the Z.
2:15:46 Speaker 02 Correct.
2:15:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:15:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, so it's looking down at the top of the pyramid. Correct.
2:15:51 Speaker 01 Okay, this is the, let's say, is the king's chamber.
2:15:54 Speaker 02 Correct. A is the king's chamber in these images. Yeah.
2:15:58 Speaker 01 Then, this is something related to the Grand Gallery.
2:16:01 Speaker 02 Correct. B, the arrow pointing to B is the Grand Gallery. Correct.
2:16:06 Speaker 01 On the other hand, they, they are detecting the queen's, the, the, the, the king's chamber.
2:16:13 Speaker 02 Yep.
2:16:14 Speaker 01 On another view angle.
2:16:15 Speaker 02 Yes, yes.
2:16:17 Speaker 01 Ob- obviously, B, this is the Grand Gallery.
2:16:21 Speaker 02 Yep.
2:16:21 Speaker 01 Okay, so we have two different view angles. This geometry and this geometry. Very good. And also other geometries. This and also this. The important thing that I am observing, that here you have two things. This and this.
2:16:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, that's the new void.
2:16:44 Speaker 01 The, ah, wait.
2:16:46 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:16:46 Speaker 01 And this.
2:16:47 Speaker 02 Yep.
2:16:49 Speaker 01 Here, you have only this. Why here you have only this and here you have this and this? Which is the difference? Because the orientation seems similar. Why? There's written on the paper.
2:17:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:17:08 Speaker 01 Why?
2:17:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, here.
2:17:10 Speaker 01 Because I tell you what is, uh, may, they are confusing something.
2:17:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, so here, here are the explanations of the positioning.
2:17:20 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:17:21 Speaker 02 And this, this breaks down the whole graph. And then here on this side are sort of the, uh...
2:17:27 Speaker 01 Oh, but yes, the, the reflectivity. Okay.
2:17:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:17:30 Speaker 01 Can we go to the previous slide, please, uh, Jeffrey? Okay, it's, it can be that this is the Grand Gallery top roof. And this is the Grand Gallery floor. And they are, in Italy we say, taking cazzi per contrabbassi?
2:17:49 Speaker 02 Hmm.
2:17:50 Speaker 01 No?
2:17:51 Speaker 02 Uh, ta- taking cu- what do you mean?
2:17:53 Speaker 01 No, no, don't say it.
2:17:54 Speaker 02 Taking liberties?
2:17:54 Speaker 01 No, don't say it. Don't say it. Taking things to other things, they are confusing.
2:18:02 Speaker 02 Ah.
2:18:03 Speaker 01 It is possible that this is the floor of the Grand Gallery because are parallel, same shape. And this is the roof of the Grand of the Grand Gallery because it's very high, the Grand Gallery.
2:18:14 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:18:14 Speaker 01 Of course, yes, in my personal opinion. And look, Jeffrey, this is the Grand Gallery. This, because it it has a shape, a rectangular shape, maybe, maybe. Look, this or this, they have to do other measurements. This is not the Grand Gallery. This is the top roof and the and the bottom of the same structure. So the Grand Gallery.
2:18:44 Speaker 02 Okay. So are you saying they might have misinterpreted?
2:18:48 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:18:48 Speaker 02 There was.
2:18:48 Speaker 01 Absolutely, yes.
2:18:49 Speaker 02 Interesting. That's fascinating. Well, sometimes.
2:18:52 Speaker 01 Why I have to build a big void, parallel, they say the big void is parallel to the Grand Gallery. Why? Why I have to go, I I have to, I have to, I have to build an inclined so-called big void. And we are detecting the big void where they are detecting the real big void.
2:19:10 Speaker 02 So let me clarify.
2:19:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:19:12 Speaker 02 Their results are suggesting that the big void is not parallel, but it's directly above. You see this area with the positive? So this is where they're picking up the signature of the big void.
2:19:25 Speaker 01 Interpreting the the photogrammetry that they are doing.
2:19:29 Speaker 02 So that's why I included this is because I wanted to get your opinion on these results and compare them again, what what he's showing on his team is an east to west transverse big void that's located more down here.
2:19:46 Speaker 01 And and parallel, because the the the floor and the roof are parallel.
2:19:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:19:51 Speaker 01 Like that.
2:19:52 Speaker 02 What the what the Muon team is suggesting, that the big void is here.
2:19:57 Speaker 01 And inclined.
2:19:57 Speaker 02 Directly above with the same angle as the Grand Gallery. They've basically described it as a copy. Of the Grand Gallery directly above it. So there's just a difference between these two things.
2:20:11 Jesse Michels? And and we haven't verified in either.
2:20:13 Speaker 02 The the only way to figure it out is to go in there.
2:20:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:20:17 Speaker 02 Which they're gonna do, and we're gonna see exactly what's what.
2:20:21 Jesse Michels? Oh, I can't wait.
2:20:22 Speaker 02 Hopefully in 2026.
2:20:23 Jesse Michels? Because if you go in there and you figure out who's right, Muon or Sardalbor Tomography, that lends a lot of credence to the substructure readings of Sardalbor Tomography if you find a positive result.
2:20:35 Speaker 02 Sure. Now, the thing is, the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquities believes in this so much.
2:20:44 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:20:44 Speaker 02 That they are willing to do the excavations based on this data. So to me, that is staggering.
2:20:52 Jesse Michels? What's your take?
2:20:53 Speaker 02 Because when I look at this, I have the same reaction as Filippo.
2:20:56 Jesse Michels? Oh, really?
2:20:57 Speaker 02 Is how? How could you possibly say with any certainty that what you're detecting here is real? Basically, you know, it's the same argument.
2:21:07 Jesse Michels? How how big is the community of experts that know how to read Muon?
2:21:10 Speaker 02 Well, that's the whole thing too, right?
2:21:12 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:21:12 Speaker 02 That's why we're having a conversation with an expert because the community in ancient alternative history.
2:21:18 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:21:19 Speaker 02 We are not experts in radar.
2:21:21 Jesse Michels? My question is, when it comes to reading Muon scans, that seems like a expertise or specialty. Have you been, have you read a lot of these and are you good at that? Or are there people out there that are good at that? You're just basing their misinterpretation off your result?
2:21:39 Speaker 01 Yes, I, in this moment, is the first time, thanks to Jeffrey, that explaining me how to read the data.
2:21:47 Jesse Michels? Okay, okay, I got it, I got it.
2:21:48 Speaker 01 So we are in front of of results. Based on these results, they are doing drilling.
2:21:57 Jesse Michels? Should we, should we show this to somebody who's read a lot of Muon scans?
2:22:00 Speaker 02 So I will say that in the paper, like you guys did, they also presented all of the mathematical analysis of the data detection. But I didn't put that in here because it's it's way beyond any of our.
2:22:16 Speaker 01 A question of of geometry.
2:22:21 Speaker 01 Please, please, please, look. If you watch the dimension of the King's Chamber and the top of the Z, A, so the distance, the horizontal distance of that.
2:22:37 Speaker 02 So these things should actually be connecting. You know, this should be connected into this.
2:22:41 Jesse Michels? So that's, that's an error.
2:22:43 Speaker 02 Well, it also depends on, again, like he's saying, it's a composite of horizontal layers.
2:22:48 Jesse Michels? Right.
2:22:48 Speaker 02 The only part of the Grand Gallery that connects into the King's Chamber is on the top layer. As you go down in the structure, the integration between the King's Chamber, Anti-Chamber and Grand Gallery, there is no more connection between the two. So basically what Filippo is pointing at here is this signature and this signature here. And he's saying that instead of this secondary signature being reflective of a new chamber, it's actually part of the Grand Gallery. Where, where this is the top of the chamber and this is the lower portion of the chamber.
2:23:26 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:23:27 Jesse Michels? Got it. Okay.
2:23:28 Speaker 02 So I, I just, I wanted to show what the existing technology was.
2:23:33 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:23:33 Speaker 02 So that the layperson can see the difference between the two, what the data looks like, and see how much of a, it's a difficult process to understand what is going on with any of this stuff.
2:23:47 Jesse Michels? This is so esoteric.
2:23:48 Speaker 02 If you are not an expert in that particular scanning technology.
2:23:52 Jesse Michels? Well, we should send this to people who are good at reading MUION scans, but you're saying, Jeffries, we know that they do get that disconnection wrong, that little point, we know for sure.
2:24:01 Speaker 02 Well, again, as, as Filippo said, it could be a byproduct, the same way with SAR technology.
2:24:07 Jesse Michels? Well, the slicing.
2:24:08 Speaker 02 Where it doesn't pick up all of the chambers because of the particular slice.
2:24:12 Jesse Michels? Right.
2:24:13 Speaker 02 This may not be vertical slices, but horizontal layers.
2:24:17 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:24:17 Speaker 02 Where they're not picking the layer where the grand.
2:24:20 Speaker 01 They're picking this sum, the vertical sum of all the layers.
2:24:23 Speaker 02 So it should have it, if it's a sum of top to bottom.
2:24:27 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:24:27 Speaker 02 It should integrate all of that into one and it should show that, because the King's Chamber connects into the Anti-Chamber, which connects into the top of the Grand Gallery. So if this is actually, and you can kind of see it here.
2:24:41 Jesse Michels? So, so why are they missing that?
2:24:42 Speaker 02 So, so let me, let me show it here. So here. They actually do kind of show, you could see what would be the anti-chamber here. The king's chamber here, and this is the grand gallery. This would be the anti-chamber. And this is the king's chamber, and that's accurate to the configuration. So in this one, they actually do show.
2:25:02 Speaker 01 Where is the big void there?
2:25:03 Speaker 02 So this doesn't show necessarily the big void. To me, it's not visible in this image.
2:25:09 Speaker 01 But.
2:25:10 Speaker 02 This is the mathematical detection of it here on the right.
2:25:14 Speaker 01 It is possible to read results of the analysis of scintillation. It is another scintillation.
2:25:20 Speaker 02 So this explanation down at the bottom gets way deep into the technical weeds where it would take an in-depth discussion with an expert to understand what's.
2:25:34 Speaker 01 Simulated data. No, no, those are simulated data. Simulated data.
2:25:38 Speaker 02 Simulated data.
2:25:39 Speaker 01 No, no, no, simulated data are.
2:25:42 Speaker 02 Similar data.
2:25:42 Speaker 01 It's not real. It's a simulated, it's a simulation that simulated data.
2:25:48 Speaker 02 So you're saying this is a simulation. So it says simulation corrected image.
2:25:53 Speaker 01 See, it's not real. The real one is the, we have that, that.
2:25:58 Speaker 02 Right.
2:25:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:25:59 Speaker 02 So is there a process, like you said, with your data of focusing? So is that what they're doing here? Is focusing and correcting the image for inter.
2:26:12 Speaker 01 Our numbers are synthetic numbers, are not real measurements.
2:26:16 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:26:17 Speaker 01 So it's not real.
2:26:19 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:26:20 Speaker 01 It's just to show the processing that are doing. It's not real data.
2:26:25 Speaker 02 Okay, and again, there's. I only picked the data images for this presentation because I just wanted to compare and contrast the raw data from your team in comparison to the raw data from the Muon team. Who knows which one of these is right? And again, we're having a conversation with an expert on SAR technology. The next person we should have in this round table is an expert on Muon technology. So that we could all understand exactly what's going on here.
2:26:59 Speaker 01 Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. He was today now here.
2:27:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:27:02 Speaker 01 Maybe we could explain one to each other, our results.
2:27:06 Jesse Michels? No, it'd be so helpful.
2:27:07 Speaker 02 And I do have the whole paper, but I would have to close this. And then it would be a huge tangent for us to look at the math presented in the paper. So there's a whole paper about this. If anybody wants to do a deep dive into Muon technology, they wrote a deep paper, the same as with your first paper. That includes all the mathematics in the scan processing.
2:27:28 Jesse Michels? So the TLDR here is that you have some discrepancies between the Muon reading and the Sardaplo tomography reading. And in definitely tried and true method, Muon detection in many cases. And then at least in the case of that one kind of cul-de-sac shaft, we, you know, tried and true as well.
2:27:48 Speaker 02 So my only point with this is from the perspective of the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquities, which is the sanctioned body for investigating the structures. They used this to find the shaft that we just saw that your team also found. And they're using this data to justify the excavations into the big void. So this is one of the first times that they're going to do a major excavation into the Great Pyramid. So there's only been a few other instances where they've actually drilled into the structure. So that's a major project to be approved by the Ministry of Antiquities. They don't do that lightly, right? It's a big decision when they decide to excavate into the structure.
2:28:31 Speaker 02 So they do believe in this enough for them to justify this project. But again, who can make sense of what's what on either one of these things? You really have to have an expert, Alaa Filippo here, or an expert on the Muon technology to really explain exactly what's going on.
2:28:48 Jesse Michels? Yep.
2:28:49 Speaker 02 So next, I really want to get to the. Because again, this could turn into a six hour long discussion and we'll be here for the rest of the night.
2:28:56 Speaker 01 Now we we move it fast here.
2:28:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So I can skip through this. The reason I wanted to show this section of the paper is because the SAR team is finding other structures like Tag 1 here on the right is the data shown in Tag 1 here in the model. So this feature here that goes down into the bedrock.
2:29:16 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:29:17 Speaker 02 Then there's this step like feature here.
2:29:20 Speaker 01 Probably, yeah, probably.
2:29:23 Speaker 02 Again, yeah, so so they're interpreting this data over here on the right into a model to show their interpretation of what this signature actually is.
2:29:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:29:37 Speaker 02 So that's all I'm trying to show here is the presentation and the development of the model itself.
2:29:44 Speaker 01 Yep.
2:29:44 Speaker 02 So you'll see these different tags, Tag 1, Tag 7 and Tag 4. Tag 7 is this transverse east to west beam like feature. And then you have these step like features here.
2:29:58 Speaker 02 I actually proposed in my video a while back in 2021. So there have been researchers that have proposed that there was a system of locks, hydraulic locks that were used to move blocks up into the pyramids. So an interesting interpretation for some of these features could be construction related features that are still encased in the body of the pyramid that are remnants of the construction process, like water locks, where they were using water locks to float these stones on rafts up into the pyramid body. So again, it's it's important for any researcher who's analyzing these things to be able to have an interpretation of the function.
2:30:42 Speaker 02 That's kind of my job in this. Investigation is when I see stuff like this, I either have to assess it from the perspective of the operation of the structure or possible vestiges of the construction process. And it would make sense, even if it was like the internal ramp, for example, you would have remnants of that internal ramp inside of the structure. If it was water locks, you would also have remnants of the vestiges of the water lock system encased in the final structure. So this is just showing some of the things that the SAR team discovered inside of the Great Pyramid that are new undiscovered features. So we have data on the right and model on the left.
2:31:27 Speaker 02 Again, this is just going through showing these linear features here and the different tags that are represented in the model here. So tag number two is the feature on the other side. So you have one here and then two over here.
2:31:42 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:31:44 Speaker 02 Same thing with.
2:31:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, this you see it very well.
2:31:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, here we go into some more where.
2:31:49 Speaker 01 There, the Grand Gallery, you see it.
2:31:51 Speaker 02 Here, yeah, yeah. So I was going to point that out here. So this is the Grand Gallery.
2:31:56 Speaker 01 And you see also the, the, the, the superior part of the Grand Gallery that you go up. There, there are features that are connected to do the King's.
2:32:09 Speaker 02 The antechamber. Yeah, the antechamber here.
2:32:13 Speaker 01 This is very clear, you see it.
2:32:14 Speaker 02 Yeah. So again, this is, I'm just showing to everybody who hasn't seen this yet, the raw data on the right and the extrapolation of the raw data into the 3D model.
2:32:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:32:30 Speaker 02 So they're just interpreting the features that they see here into this model.
2:32:34 Jesse Michels? Can I ask you a question?
2:32:35 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:32:35 Jesse Michels? Do any of these structures that they're interpreting from the raw data fly in the face of what conventional archaeology would think exists inside the pyramids?
2:32:45 Speaker 02 All of it.
2:32:46 Jesse Michels? All of it.
2:32:46 Speaker 02 All of it.
2:32:47 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:32:48 Speaker 02 All of this is. The only known vetted chambers of the Great Pyramid. King's Chamber, Queen's Chamber, Grand Gallery and Subterranean Chamber. You have four chambers connected by a system of shafts.
2:33:04 Jesse Michels? We're obviously going to get way deeper into your theory in our solo episode.
2:33:09 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:33:10 Jesse Michels? But does any of this comport with the functionality that you think?
2:33:15 Speaker 02 I've integrated all of this into a functional hypothesis. So I have, Filippo, I've entertained all of these speculative features in a model of my hypothesis for how the structure works.
2:33:29 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:33:29 Speaker 02 For example, the heat exchanger system that goes around the King's Chamber and above the Grand Gallery, the extraction shaft connected into the Queen's Chamber, which is that shaft leading out of it. And I also have a hypothesis for how these, again, I have a number of different interpretations for what these vertical features below the pyramids might be. I've not publicly yet, but I do have an interpretation on what those could be. Reason I haven't come out publicly yet is because I think there's still more investigation that needs to be done to verify the configuration of the structure. So again, we have more.
2:34:09 Speaker 01 Yes, that it is a bit confusing.
2:34:12 Speaker 02 It's, it's very confusing.
2:34:14 Jesse Michels? Some of the basic confusion around the pyramids, it's perennial debate and question is how they were built.
2:34:20 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:34:20 Jesse Michels? And you have people like, I think Jean Pierre Houdin and France, who say that there's something about like, you know, internally, like the blocks get pulled up or something. Could any of these structures deal with how the pyramid was constructed?
2:34:35 Speaker 02 Well, that's what I was saying is that.
2:34:36 Jesse Michels? It was like a pulley or something.
2:34:37 Speaker 02 For example, in the, in the model.
2:34:39 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:34:39 Speaker 02 You know, these could be remnants or vestiges of a water lock system that were used to move blocks up into the pyramid.
2:34:47 Jesse Michels? Interesting.
2:34:48 Speaker 02 It certainly could be. My only issue with this is the extrapolation from the data into the model.
2:34:57 Jesse Michels? Yeah, sure.
2:34:57 Speaker 01 That is things that we discussed previously. Those are two tomographic lines, you know? If, if we had the chance, the chance to see.
2:35:12 Speaker 01 The video belonging to tomographic lines, things could be perfect. Because you are watching something dynamically and you recognize very well the structures.
2:35:25 Speaker 02 So for example, in this one on the top right, there's so much going on with this over here.
2:35:33 Speaker 01 A lot of false alarm, yes.
2:35:35 Speaker 02 False alarms.
2:35:36 Speaker 01 I'm aware that there you have false alarm, but it is only one. You have other audits.
2:35:42 Speaker 02 Right, yeah. So you agree that in all of this raw data, it's very difficult to say with any certainty, based on all of the interference and background data, that the model itself, so the data is clearly picking up something. It's difficult for me to be on board with the model, given what I can see and hear.
2:36:06 Jesse Michels? What would you say to that, Filippo? Is the level of intricacy, given the fact, you want to go back one slide?
2:36:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
2:36:12 Jesse Michels? Just given like how in detail and intricate the model is, the 3D model that you guys have derived, and then also given what you just said, which is there's a lot of noise in the raw reading. Do you really think you can stand behind that 3D model?
2:36:28 Speaker 01 Absolutely, yes.
2:36:30 Jesse Michels? And why is it?
2:36:30 Speaker 01 Hundred percent.
2:36:31 Jesse Michels? Wow.
2:36:32 Speaker 01 Because we have interpreted really a lot of results.
2:36:39 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:36:39 Speaker 01 All on a table.
2:36:41 Jesse Michels? So you're basically saying you're like a pro at removing the noise? Like you know what's noise, you can delineate the noise? Because you said there's a lot of noise here.
2:36:49 Speaker 01 Um, it's not, it is not, there is not, there is a so-called vertical strip noise and we have removed it now in the new tomography.
2:36:59 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:37:00 Speaker 01 That kind of noise, so there is not any more.
2:37:03 Jesse Michels? Well, then to me, it's like the Moeon scans, where I'm like, I don't know.
2:37:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, either one, right? You could be looking at both of them. And I think Filippo's point about a synergy between the two technologies, where they're merging the two techniques, is probably the best course of action for really getting closer to the truth?
2:37:20 Speaker 01 Yes, because you are detecting things and then you use another method, a complete other method to try and detect. The same thing.
2:37:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, so, so for example, Filippo, you said that the scan happens once and it's 15 seconds. And inside of the structure, there are going to be micro vibrations that are happening just based on the geology and the, the, you know, seismic movements or anything. So is it possible that some of these detections of micro movements are simply the nature of the structure itself, where it's going to pick up something inside of the structure that's producing these micro movements? Yeah. So, so these, these images aren't necessarily even background noise, but it could be just foundational elements of the pyramid with tiny little shifts of the block or the slight
2:38:12 Speaker 02 movement of the earth, producing these micro vibrations that are producing a signature that's picked up on the surface. So it's the difficult thing, and this is his job because he's the expert, is differentiating between background noise, normal vibrations within the structure, and actual chambers. So that's critical in really understanding this data is the differentiation between each and trying to separate out which is which.
2:38:41 Jesse Michels? And but you feel, you feel confident in your ability to differentiate.
2:38:45 Speaker 01 I have to say this also, everything we put that we, we insert in the 3D model,
2:38:54 Speaker 01 we, we analyzed a lot of results. So we are, I'm, I can say sure, but very confident that probably things that we insert in the 3D model are the reality, are effective there.
2:39:16 Speaker 02 Okay. So let's go to the final 3D model.
2:39:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:39:21 Speaker 02 Which we have, so this is another good one.
2:39:24 Speaker 01 I don't know, I look how nice.
2:39:25 Speaker 02 So again, this, this is the Queen's Chamber here. And we have the shaft going out of the Queen's Chamber.
2:39:32 Speaker 01 Look that, you can see everything.
2:39:33 Speaker 02 The red signature here.
2:39:34 Speaker 01 And also below, below, there is something.
2:39:37 Speaker 02 Here.
2:39:38 Speaker 01 Uh, yes.
2:39:38 Speaker 02 Or here.
2:39:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
2:39:41 Speaker 02 So again, it's, he's the expert in interpreting what the actual data is showing. And this is the model that they've created from this perspective.
2:39:49 Jesse Michels? Can I just say that the 3D model looks absolutely wild? Like, it looks like a, an advanced contraption. It does not look like, uh, you know, something that was, we would normally associate with being built.
2:40:03 Speaker 01 Well, it's a nice storm.
2:40:05 Jesse Michels? Four thousand years ago, let alone, you know, 10,000 years ago.
2:40:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
2:40:10 Jesse Michels? It's crazy.
2:40:10 Speaker 02 So the model is wild.
2:40:12 Jesse Michels? Wild.
2:40:12 Speaker 02 And I, again, my only caveat to the model is like, I don't see how you get to the model from the data.
2:40:21 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:40:21 Speaker 02 But it's your job as the creator of the software and the developer of the project to take the raw data and turn it into something that the people can understand. Because the.
2:40:32 Speaker 01 But not with only one result, with a great, a great on our.
2:40:35 Jesse Michels? Can, can I ask you a question? When you measured the Grand Sasso laboratory.
2:40:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:40:41 Jesse Michels? Go back to that other image. Are you getting that level of granularity with it? Are you getting the instruments and all that stuff? When you see the Grand Sasso laboratory, are you getting that level of, when I say granularity, that level of specificity?
2:40:55 Speaker 01 I tell you, yes.
2:40:56 Jesse Michels? Really?
2:40:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:40:57 Speaker 02 So I, I want to show you, and this is an important part of the conversation.
2:41:01 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:41:01 Speaker 02 The proof of concept. So
2:41:06 Speaker 02 it's nice, but we also have like tons of mess. This all in here.
2:41:13 Speaker 01 Because I have to integrate also in the, in the vertical dimension of this diagram. If I integrate. Like that.
2:41:24 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:41:24 Speaker 01 I I will have absolutely less false alarms, but they are not false alarms. They are true alarms because the the soil, the the ground, it is a mess. So you the the the result is the reality. Okay. So because why? Because um the sound does not propagate into the free space, but only. But it it is propagating inside the matter and the matter is complicated. So look, you have the that mess there. I don't know.
2:42:04 Speaker 02 No, no, no, I I understand. Um, but again, from a from a person who my entire body of work and anybody who's interested in the function of the Egyptian pyramids. If there is a new novel approach to detecting internal chambers, we want to see consistency of the detection of the known structures, which in here we do have a great signature.
2:42:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:42:30 Speaker 02 Down here.
2:42:31 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:42:31 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
2:42:33 Speaker 02 The Queen's Chamber in this one doesn't have a great signature.
2:42:37 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:42:37 Speaker 02 We have background data here.
2:42:42 Speaker 01 Yes, that's a problem of the layover of the of the radar. Yes.
2:42:46 Speaker 02 Yeah. It's it's obscuring the view of any signature from the King's Chamber or the Grand Gallery.
2:42:53 Jesse Michels? But I guess, Filippo, would you know that that's a problem? From the layover of the technique? Would you know that if you didn't know the structure? Would you be able to say?
2:43:03 Speaker 01 See, see, that's the layover, yes.
2:43:04 Jesse Michels? Really? You say that that the pattern matches, that's obviously.
2:43:08 Speaker 01 Very well.
2:43:09 Jesse Michels? Okay. Yeah, fair enough.
2:43:10 Speaker 01 If I do a report, that's the layover and then those are real structures.
2:43:15 Jesse Michels? And then the Queen's Chamber, like in other cases.
2:43:18 Speaker 01 Ah, but you you don't have only one, but you have a plethora of results. So you are able to track.
2:43:23 Jesse Michels? For sure.
2:43:24 Speaker 01 Track into the the tomographic dimension, the different targets.
2:43:30 Jesse Michels? And you're sure you just missed the Queen's Chamber because it was too small?
2:43:33 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:43:33 Jesse Michels? Okay. And you've missed.
2:43:35 Speaker 01 It is small, but in that particular slice, you don't have it. Because you you maybe I don't remember now this case, but because we we did a lot of
2:43:45 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:43:45 Speaker 01 I don't remember the case, but probably we we did not align the tomographic slice on the
2:43:51 Jesse Michels? Got it.
2:43:52 Speaker 01 On the Queen's Chamber. Okay.
2:43:54 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:43:54 Speaker 01 That's good.
2:43:55 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
2:43:55 Speaker 02 And and again, what I found really compelling about this one is the signature of this tag here.
2:44:01 Speaker 01 Ah, yes.
2:44:02 Speaker 02 Going down from
2:44:03 Speaker 01 That's it.
2:44:03 Speaker 02 From the Queen's Chamber.
2:44:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:44:05 Speaker 02 Down here into tag fifteen, which is represented by this blue line here.
2:44:11 Speaker 01 This is that is that is interesting.
2:44:14 Speaker 02 So this has again been reported in the archaeological excavation that there There is something like this below the Queen's Chamber.
2:44:22 Jesse Michels? And did you know?
2:44:23 Speaker 02 It's covered up now.
2:44:24 Jesse Michels? Filippo, did you have any context on that in the historical record before you made this measurement? That's really crazy. That's pretty cool.
2:44:33 Speaker 02 So that again, you know, again, I have some
2:44:35 Speaker 01 No, I'm I am listening to this this story.
2:44:38 Speaker 02 So there's there's some there's some positive.
2:44:40 Jesse Michels? Wow.
2:44:41 Speaker 02 There's some positive things about it.
2:44:42 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:44:43 Speaker 02 And there's also some questions and some negatives where we don't get a conclusive answer. So my my objective with this is try to parse through what we can see and what we can't see to try to make a conclusive determination about what structures are actually there. And this is an instance where the anecdotal archaeological reports substantiate the idea of there being a shaft and chamber system below the Queen's Chamber, which is certainly looks like there is something coming down from the Queen's Chamber here. So this is again, when I initially looked at this paper four or five years ago, this was the part that I found most compelling, the shaft system below the Queen's Chamber. So now I think we can move on.
2:45:27 Speaker 02 Um, this was another interesting one, Filippo.
2:45:29 Speaker 01 This is interesting.
2:45:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So we were talking about this here.
2:45:32 Speaker 01 I'm a yammer and I know this.
2:45:33 Speaker 02 Right, so this large
2:45:34 Speaker 01 Don't don't care about that.
2:45:36 Speaker 02 So you don't, well, let me ask a question real quick.
2:45:38 Speaker 01 This is the Z. Look how nice it is.
2:45:41 Jesse Michels? Sure.
2:45:41 Speaker 01 This is the Z. Look, and this is the Grand Gallery.
2:45:44 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:45:45 Speaker 01 This I like it a lot. I like a lot of this thing here. Uh, this is the Z. It is very clear. Look how nice it is. These are not simulated data, they are real data. This is the Grand Gallery. And probably, we are detecting,
2:46:04 Speaker 01 I don't know if we are detecting also the big void, but somewhere here has to be. But maybe, in this tomographic line, we don't see it, but we see very, very nicely the Grand Gallery, that is this, and the Z. And also the square structure that is surrounding the Z, which is this, look, look Jeffrey, this.
2:46:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, there's the slide of that and the next one, yeah.
2:46:32 Speaker 01 And the Grand Gallery is here, like that. We should see also the big void, but I have to retrieve the original tomography, the high resolution. Okay, here we are not seeing the big void.
2:46:49 Speaker 02 So you have it labeled there at tag 19?
2:46:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:46:53 Speaker 02 So in this one...
2:46:54 Speaker 01 Ah, big void, yes, yes, I'm sorry.
2:46:55 Speaker 02 You haven't labeled over here.
2:46:57 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes, I'm sorry. Thank you, Jeff.
2:46:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
2:47:00 Speaker 01 Thank you for this. This helped. So... Are my results, but I did it 6 years ago, no? So I don't remember exactly the... How we managed to...
2:47:11 Speaker 02 So my question about this one was this signature.
2:47:14 Speaker 01 No, it's the layover.
2:47:16 Speaker 02 You don't think...
2:47:18 Speaker 01 The layover is something ready to synthetic virtual. So it's my job.
2:47:22 Speaker 02 But, do you think, so we know that the pyramid is built on a mound of bedrock?
2:47:29 Speaker 01 No, that's no, no, no.
2:47:30 Speaker 02 Could this possibly be a signature of the bedrock?
2:47:34 Speaker 01 No, that's the signature of the layover.
2:47:36 Speaker 02 Okay.
2:47:37 Speaker 01 So it is something that the radar returns is so strong that you retrieve that signature also in the vibrations, okay?
2:47:53 Speaker 01 It is something, it is something that I, I can explain it to you scientifically, yeah, if you want.
2:48:00 Jesse Michels? No, no, I just, I just.
2:48:01 Speaker 01 I, I need something.
2:48:03 Jesse Michels? There wasn't any explanation for what this was in the paper, so I wanted to ask you.
2:48:08 Speaker 01 An aberration due by layover is well known to me.
2:48:13 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:48:13 Speaker 01 Okay, but inside the aberration, inside things, you can see very clear the, the um, the Grand Gallery, the Z and other facilities, and also the big void, the Tag 19.
2:48:31 Jesse Michels? Here.
2:48:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay, that's the panoramic view of what we are dealing, look there.
2:48:39 Jesse Michels? We just need, I think, you, Filippo, to create known standard conventions for what is layover noise and what is, you know, empty space and what is, you know, physical material of XYZ density. I think all of that needs to be laid out in some sort of taxonomy by you.
2:49:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:49:00 Jesse Michels? So that the open scientific community can kind of corroborate and check your work.
2:49:05 Speaker 01 Yes, but I thank Jeffrey that invite, and you also, Jesse and Jeffrey, you invite me here and we are, and I am giving you additional explanation of our technique, okay?
2:49:22 Jesse Michels? Yeah, absolutely.
2:49:22 Speaker 01 So today we spoke about the incidence angle, how to see deeper, how to see only the pyramid, the layover, no, that's because of the layover, okay? It's a false alarm, but we know it, it's there, okay? We don't consider it.
2:49:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:49:37 Speaker 01 Because we are radar experts, okay? It's, it's not.
2:49:41 Jesse Michels? Would an average radar expert be able to tell between layover and, you know?
2:49:47 Speaker 01 An average radar expert, yes, can distinguish the layover and the forest shortening and the shadowing that are the three main issues of synthetic aerial radar. But in the Doppler tomography domain, you have to connect these things and so read it.
2:50:05 Jesse Michels? Got it.
2:50:06 Speaker 01 Read this problem.
2:50:07 Jesse Michels? So you have to create new like conventions for kind of digesting this stuff and processing it.
2:50:13 Speaker 02 So I just wanted to show these last diagrams, the final diagrams.
2:50:17 Speaker 01 The top.
2:50:18 Speaker 02 So the top view of the big void.
2:50:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:50:20 Speaker 02 Connected into this square structure around the King's Chamber.
2:50:24 Speaker 01 I suggest you to grab this image and overlap, overlap this image on the moon. Scanning results.
2:50:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:50:37 Speaker 01 Do it and then let me know. You will see also the big void like that.
2:50:43 Speaker 02 Interesting. So again, the, the comparison of what we were looking at is that they're showing it's a north to south orientation.
2:50:50 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:50:50 Speaker 02 Here he's showing it as a more of an east to west orientation.
2:50:54 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:50:54 Speaker 02 Connected into these other structures around the King's Chamber.
2:50:58 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
2:50:59 Speaker 02 Then we have kind of the final schematic.
2:51:01 Speaker 01 Very good. Look, you, you.
2:51:03 Speaker 02 With measurements.
2:51:04 Speaker 01 With measure.
2:51:04 Speaker 02 So they, they took.
2:51:06 Speaker 01 Now you, you, you are on this.
2:51:08 Speaker 02 So what they did here is they took the data and they measured all of the data.
2:51:14 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:51:15 Speaker 02 And they interpreted the specific measurements of the signatures that were received by the radar.
2:51:22 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
2:51:22 Speaker 02 And they incorporated the measurements and all of the unique features into a complete model that incorporates all of the new features. So we have the big void here. We have this chamber system and shaft system that goes around the King's Chamber here. We have the shaft system below the Queen's Chamber and a possible connection point, as Filippo mentioned, between the newly discovered feature on the northern face that connects into the Grand Gallery. So this is a complete reconstruction, including measurements that were taken from the raw data and put into the model.
2:52:02 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:52:02 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
2:52:03 Speaker 02 So now let's go.
2:52:04 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:52:04 Speaker 02 To the new paper.
2:52:05 Speaker 01 The new paper.
2:52:06 Speaker 02 The new paper. We established the foundation of the first paper.
2:52:09 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:52:10 Speaker 02 And I think have done probably an overly in-depth analysis.
2:52:13 Jesse Michels? Oh, yeah.
2:52:14 Speaker 02 But I think it's important that we have the discussion. So there's one, there's one main question I have about the new paper.
2:52:21 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:52:21 Speaker 02 At this point, everybody's already, I'm going to assume.
2:52:24 Speaker 01 In mall.
2:52:24 Speaker 02 Everyone's already seen the, the raw data images. So we're gonna, this is the scanning.
2:52:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:52:30 Speaker 02 Of the Kafrah Pyramid, the central pyramid.
2:52:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:52:33 Speaker 02 And this is the data that they are showing of potential new structures. Located above the existing chambers inside of the central pyramid. Yes. And I'll, I'll show you a diagram here in a moment that compares the known chambers to what we have here. And this is their reconstruction of these vertical pillars. I know everybody's seen that at this point. Yeah. So let's get to the proof of concepts that were presented during the Malta conference. Yeah. So these were scans of modern structures that are intended as proof of concept. Yes. That this technology can read the micro vibration surface signatures of internal structures. Yes.
2:53:17 Speaker 01 That in terms of signal processing, information you penetrate.
2:53:22 Speaker 02 Yeah. So my main question, so we hear, we have the Carlin Tunnel. And this is the scan.
2:53:29 Speaker 01 The scan, look.
2:53:30 Speaker 02 Okay. So Filippo, can you explain? Yeah. So the qualitative image here. Same thing with the Grand Sasso. Yeah. This is the raw, the processed data showing the tunnel here.
2:53:50 Speaker 01 These are all the scumming.
2:53:52 Speaker 02 And this is the, the Grand Sasso, the physics laboratory. So here, here we have the configuration of the laboratory. And here on the left is the data.
2:54:01 Speaker 01 Measurement data.
2:54:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:54:03 Speaker 01 Real, not simulated, real.
2:54:04 Speaker 02 Right, okay.
2:54:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:54:06 Speaker 02 Can you explain why this?
2:54:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:54:09 Speaker 02 Looks completely different from this.
2:54:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:54:13 Speaker 02 What is the difference between what is going on here? In the proof of concepts?
2:54:19 Speaker 01 Signal processing procedure. There, we are dealing with something let's call wide, in a wide area. The Grand Sasso is big.
2:54:30 Speaker 02 Wide array.
2:54:31 Speaker 01 Yeah. And the focusing procedure of the phonons are different. So we use something different that we can see very wide. I can say you the details, but the details are that there. The focusing process is done to see, okay, I want to see wider. Okay, focus wider. And there we are observing the Gran Sasso because it's big, the Gran Sasso.
2:55:02 Speaker 02 Okay. So what is the footprint again? So we said that when you were scanning the pyramids.
2:55:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55:09 Speaker 02 You have a five K by five kilometer footprint.
2:55:14 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:55:14 Speaker 02 Area of the scan.
2:55:15 Speaker 01 The footprint.
2:55:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:55:17 Speaker 01 Potential tomographic lines. But if you want to scan.
2:55:20 Speaker 02 When you do.
2:55:21 Speaker 01 The tomographic line, you put it on the.
2:55:23 Speaker 02 Sure, sure. When you scanned the Gran Sasso.
2:55:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55:27 Speaker 02 Is it the same five kilometer by five kilometer?
2:55:30 Speaker 01 The same.
2:55:31 Speaker 02 So it's the same footprint.
2:55:33 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:55:34 Speaker 02 If the focusing technique.
2:55:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55:38 Speaker 02 For this scan.
2:55:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55:40 Speaker 02 Produced this quality of an image.
2:55:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:55:44 Speaker 02 Why are we using this?
2:55:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:55:47 Speaker 02 To image inside of the pyramid? Can you explain the technical reason?
2:55:51 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:55:51 Speaker 02 Why? Because I thought the these were. Not inside the pyramid, under the pyramid. Well, both. Okay. Right? So this is a scan of what's inside of the pyramid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, got you. And this is a completely different type of signature than what is shown here. Good question.
2:56:06 Speaker 01 Because.
2:56:06 Speaker 02 So there's a very big difference between these two things. Yep. So can you explain what the difference is between the process? And the end result?
2:56:16 Speaker 01 Thing is that this is black and white look. And the other one is another kind of colors. You see red and blue, red and blue. So it is a different representation.
2:56:30 Speaker 02 So again, we have here the tunnel.
2:56:31 Speaker 01 Blue, white, white, blue. Okay, and there you see is red and blue.
2:56:38 Speaker 01 In the case of the Gran Sasso, I used a different processing technique. It was like an experiment. Why here I am seeing it in a different color? Because here I attempt to do different process of different tomographic lines, like that. Because I wanted to mitigate the noise in the in the vertical direction of the tomographic line, like that. Ta ta ta ta ta ta. So to average pixel by pixel the noise. And we see that the results, the results are very good.
2:57:20 Jesse Michels? Yes.
2:57:21 Speaker 01 But I spent at least two months of processing time.
2:57:26 Jesse Michels? Okay. Why didn't you do the same thing?
2:57:28 Speaker 01 That's why, that's why. It's not something that you can do it every day. Because I went to my friend, I said, can I, can I use your computers? Okay, yes, but I can't use his computer forever, no?
2:57:43 Jesse Michels? But it sounds like that's a superior technique.
2:57:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:57:46 Jesse Michels? So why wouldn't?
2:57:47 Speaker 01 It's a superior technique, yes.
2:57:48 Jesse Michels? So why wouldn't you use that on the most important finding?
2:57:51 Speaker 01 Because I didn't have the computers. I am poor.
2:57:54 Jesse Michels? Oh, no. Well, let's get you the computer.
2:57:57 Speaker 01 I have my instruments, I have.
2:57:59 Jesse Michels? But you have to understand how to, to like random person in the audience. They're thinking like, Filippo, why didn't you use your friend's computer?
2:58:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, because.
2:58:08 Jesse Michels? With the better process.
2:58:08 Speaker 02 So for example, this, this proof of concept
2:58:11 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:58:12 Speaker 02 also wasn't presented in conjunction with the original paper either. So this is new from the Malta conference, which was in 2024.
2:58:20 Jesse Michels? Yes.
2:58:21 Speaker 02 This proof of concept is newer compared to their original scans in 2020. So to me, this is far more convincing than anything that we've seen thus far with the original scans.
2:58:34 Speaker 01 That is the, the, the laborado.
2:58:37 Jesse Michels? How much would it cost you to do the equivalent of this, but for the coffer pyramid? Substructure?
2:58:44 Speaker 01 My project in the future is to do it real time, Jesse. I want to do it real time.
2:58:50 Jesse Michels? So how much would that cost you?
2:58:51 Speaker 01 I don't know. A lot.
2:58:53 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:58:54 Speaker 01 But I can't see you. I don't know.
2:58:56 Jesse Michels? But yeah.
2:58:57 Speaker 01 Millions, let's say millions.
2:58:58 Jesse Michels? How how much of the validation? I do think it's important because it you're saying that the processing was slightly different here versus so when you're citing this as validation, how many of the other examples like the Osiris shaft or other things? Did you use this kind of more rapid than the slice technique?
2:59:18 Speaker 01 Everything that you are that you are watching in black and white.
2:59:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, I have all of them.
2:59:23 Jesse Michels? Okay.
2:59:23 Speaker 02 Right, so so again, it from my perspective, somebody who is super focused on discovering the true configuration of these structures.
2:59:32 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
2:59:33 Speaker 02 Why would we even publish the initial results? If the capability existed to do something superior that could eliminate all of the background noise and confusion? So in your first paper, you made the statement transparent like a crystal.
2:59:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:59:51 Speaker 02 Those images from the first paper are not transparent like a crystal.
2:59:56 Speaker 01 I'm not, I don't agree.
2:59:57 Speaker 02 This is this is transparent like a crystal. So why would we not use this is good? This is really good. This is way better, Filippo.
3:00:08 Speaker 01 Yes, I know.
3:00:09 Speaker 02 And that's why this is like super important. When I was watching this in Malta, I didn't want to get into too in depth of a conference. But when I was looking at this, I was like, this is actually something that very much resonates with me as being a very powerful technology. What you showed in the first paper, the differentiation between background noise and layover and everything is.
3:00:34 Speaker 01 The the word says the first paper.
3:00:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:00:36 Speaker 01 Is it was the initial of our research.
3:00:41 Speaker 02 Sure.
3:00:42 Speaker 01 Going back in time, six or seven, we we began two years before the the papers in two thousand eighteen.
3:00:52 Speaker 01 Nearly ten years now, eight years they are. So the software was the initial software.
3:00:58 Jesse Michels? Right.
3:00:59 Speaker 01 Things we did, it resonates like a crystal because it is transparent with noise.
3:01:05 Jesse Michels? One was the last.
3:01:06 Speaker 01 Okay, an old crystal, let's say.
3:01:08 Jesse Michels? Okay, sure. Yeah, well, well, it's not a crystal, it's limestone, right?
3:01:13 Speaker 01 Limestone.
3:01:13 Jesse Michels? Yeah, so limestone is not a crystal. But this, the qualitative processed image of this is very much transparent like a crystal.
3:01:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:01:24 Jesse Michels? I thought this was spectacular.
3:01:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:01:26 Jesse Michels? And when you're presenting this data to an academic community that is going to be extremely rigorously trying to tear this apart. The background noise, the layover, the inability to detect certain structures because of the tomographic line. I would scrap all of that and go with this.
3:01:47 Speaker 01 No, this is very nice. I like it.
3:01:50 Jesse Michels? Well, let's get, I mean, seriously, I mean, this is going to drive me insane. See, this is why I wanted to show you this. Let's, let's get you crowdfunded the money to, so that you can get this level of quality on the actual coffer pyramid substructure.
3:02:06 Speaker 01 But also better.
3:02:07 Jesse Michels? What's that? Oh, let's get you better. Let's get you better, but even this would be, because I do think there's an issue if you're like, you know, all of the validation looks like that, and then, you know, you're reading on the coffer pyramid looks like the way you said. And, and then it's like, we have to, we're basically taking your word for it. And not my, all my soft signaling is like, you're legit. But like, that's me, I'm one person and like, you know, I also would love for there to be like an energy grid under the pyramid. So I think we need this level on, you know, the actual coffer pyramid.
3:02:41 Speaker 01 And we would, I, it, it.
3:02:45 Speaker 01 It will be done.
3:02:47 Speaker 02 Uh huh.
3:02:48 Speaker 01 It will be done.
3:02:48 Speaker 02 Okay, amazing. Soon?
3:02:50 Speaker 01 Now, if we work in the right procedure, we will establish a foundation in Malta. There we will install the computers and maybe we will do something better, also better than this.
3:03:10 Speaker 02 And hopefully today, I wanted to give you some feedback as a friend for ways that you can improve the presentation to the academic community. Because the questions that I have are the reasons that they have immediately rejected all of the data. Because there's a lot of questions, but if you lead with this, there can be less objections to the data. This I thought was spectacular. When I saw this in Malta, this really caught my attention and it bothered me that you went from this, which is transparent like a crystal. I think this is fantastic.
3:03:52 Speaker 02 The scan, the scan of this structure here, you can even see it here from far away. You can see the triangular, the transverse tunnel. You can see the mountain and you can see the inside of the laboratory. Filippo, I love this. This is the best proof of concept that you have access to a technology that can scan inside structures. But then you go from this to this and I was like, what is going on here? There's such a huge difference between quality A and quality B that it takes away from the credibility of this and it's not an efficient proof of concept.
3:04:36 Speaker 01 I know, I agree with your, on what you are saying, but there are results. We can't see, we can't see that are better results.
3:04:48 Speaker 02 So I would love to see, do it with the new thing. I would love to see that.
3:04:53 Jesse Michels? The new thing is so easy to read for a layperson that I do think it would just help you, your cause. And I'll defend you here and say the fact that unless you are...
3:05:06 Jesse Michels? Fabricating that first image, if you're using Sardopotomography, to Jeffrey's point, to reconstruct the Grand Sasso Laboratory in that image that we saw on the left.
3:05:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, here.
3:05:18 Jesse Michels? That is a total proof of concept for the actual technique. That's amazing.
3:05:24 Speaker 02 But that's my point.
3:05:26 Jesse Michels? And then you need to do that for the thing that's going viral that everybody cares about.
3:05:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, so this was very good, and that's why I wanted to show this. And that's why.
3:05:36 Speaker 01 And you see also the facility.
3:05:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, we can see the facility here, the triangular, and this is where the interferometer is.
3:05:43 Speaker 01 Oh, the interferometer is fantastic. Yes.
3:05:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:05:47 Speaker 02 Okay, so another.
3:05:48 Speaker 01 The interferometer is fantastic.
3:05:50 Speaker 02 Another caveat on testing modern structures as proof of concept. These are operating systems. There's electricity. There's moving components. There's people. You know, they didn't turn the lab off for him to scan this. So there are inherent vibrations in a modern operating facility that are producing more readily readable signatures.
3:06:18 Speaker 01 Ventilators.
3:06:19 Speaker 02 In an ancient structure, there are no moving parts. The Great Pyramid is chambers. That's it. There's no ventilators. There's no electricity. There's no moving parts.
3:06:29 Speaker 01 No.
3:06:30 Speaker 02 So my only issue with the proof of concept using modern facilities is there are actual active vibrations, mechanical vibrations within the structure that are producing more intense signatures than an ancient.
3:06:45 Speaker 01 1.4 kilometers.
3:06:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, right, right. The height of the mountain is way bigger than a pyramid.
3:06:52 Jesse Michels? That's a fair point, and I do think that should be addressed. I think it's at the margins compared to the larger point, which is that this technique looks fundamentally different. And yeah, I think, Filippo, you should definitely do the structures underneath the Coffer Pyramid, but with this technique that you're showing here. And it's really important for these, you know, you're giving fodder to the skeptics, you know, if you. If you don't do this.
3:07:17 Speaker 02 So we always say, when you present something new, put your best foot forward. Because it helps to eliminate objections. But I can see your pride in this.
3:07:30 Jesse Michels? Yes.
3:07:31 Speaker 02 And I felt the same way about it. I was like, okay, this is, this is cool. When I saw this, I was like, he's really possibly on to something.
3:07:40 Jesse Michels? For sure.
3:07:40 Speaker 02 But then we again moved on to the rest of the presentation where he's showing the new scans of the Kafra Pyramid. So here's another one. That's another proof of concept of the Mosul Dam. And there are some turbines, two different types of turbines. There's a Kaplan turbine and another circular turbine like this.
3:08:00 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:08:00 Speaker 02 So this was another proof of concept where they scanned the Mosul Dam.
3:08:04 Jesse Michels? But that's using the like raw data that looks like the raw data.
3:08:09 Speaker 02 The secondary, the inferior technology.
3:08:13 Jesse Michels? Which, which, which I think is, that's a good.
3:08:15 Speaker 02 Proof of concept then.
3:08:17 Speaker 01 Yes, but I have to criticize this.
3:08:20 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:08:21 Speaker 01 In the context of ancient megalithics. In this case, the turbines are in movement and they.
3:08:30 Speaker 02 That was gonna be my point is that these are.
3:08:32 Speaker 01 A lot of energy in terms.
3:08:33 Speaker 02 Mechanical moving parts. Hmm. So of course there's gonna be a.
3:08:36 Speaker 01 It is a proof of concept, yes, but it is a proof of concept not applicable in megalithics. Because there in megalithics, you need a lot of precision, a lot of sensitivity.
3:08:49 Jesse Michels? And when you, what are, what's the word you're using? Megalithic?
3:08:53 Speaker 02 Megalithic structures, right? Because these are, these are operating, moving, mechanical components.
3:08:58 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
3:08:58 Speaker 02 The dam is working.
3:09:00 Jesse Michels? For sure.
3:09:00 Speaker 02 Right? So he's scanning a piece of machinery.
3:09:04 Jesse Michels? You are, but, but.
3:09:05 Speaker 02 Well, it's okay. Yeah.
3:09:06 Jesse Michels? To play devil's advocate, if you go one slide back, like go one again, like that looks like decent. I, I can't read, you know, Sardaukar to mark.
3:09:15 Speaker 02 Yeah. So this is, so this is the configuration.
3:09:18 Jesse Michels? Go one slide to the right, like that, that looks like decent to me. That looks like.
3:09:21 Speaker 02 So, so let me show here what, so this is the configuration of the Kaplan turbine. And then this is the configuration of the spiral turbine.
3:09:30 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:09:31 Speaker 02 And what we have here is the Kaplan turbine. And this is the Francis spiral turbine.
3:09:38 Speaker 01 So it's.
3:09:38 Speaker 02 So my only question that would help validate this is, do you have an engineering blueprint? Of the Mosul Dam that shows that there are these two different types of turbines.
3:09:51 Speaker 01 They are confidential.
3:09:53 Speaker 02 So you're.
3:09:54 Speaker 01 It's not possible to retrieve the.
3:09:56 Speaker 02 That was my question is like, this is great. And you're showing two different types of turbines right next to each other.
3:10:02 Speaker 01 But it's it's sufficient to to say that there's a Francis and a Capre. It's sufficient, Jeffrey. You can't have the eh the effective eh design of the turbine. Eh, chamber, you say, the turbine area.
3:10:21 Speaker 02 Sure.
3:10:22 Speaker 01 Because.
3:10:23 Speaker 02 That's that's a valid point.
3:10:25 Speaker 01 Very, very difficult to have it.
3:10:26 Speaker 02 Sure, sure, but I was just, my question is, do you have access to an engineering blueprint? That can corroborate this configuration within the dam? That would just.
3:10:38 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't have.
3:10:39 Speaker 02 Enhance. Yeah, no, it's okay. Yeah, I was just curious if you did, because that would be even more evidence.
3:10:44 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
3:10:45 Speaker 02 To show here is, just like we did with the diagrams of the Great Pyramid. You could take the engineering blueprint.
3:10:51 Speaker 01 Speaking on something very simple to obtain, because they are mechanically move moving.
3:10:58 Speaker 02 Right.
3:10:59 Speaker 01 And also the thickness is very low.
3:11:01 Speaker 02 The. In the dam.
3:11:02 Speaker 01 In the dam, yes, it's not, I think, three hundred meters, something like that is is very.
3:11:07 Speaker 02 So the three of us immediately latched on to my entire point of that discussion. Is that there's qualitatively vastly superior technology being used for the proof of concepts. The proof of concepts are modern mechanically operating structures that are very different to imaging megalithic structures where there are no moving mechanical points. So.
3:11:34 Speaker 02 Again, I was just, when I saw this during.
3:11:36 Jesse Michels? Can I say it slightly differently, which is?
3:11:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:11:38 Jesse Michels? I don't know that it's qualitati-, it looks qualitatively better. The problem is in Filippo's head, it might actually not be qualitatively better. It just looks to it's it's it's qualitatively more digestible, translatable, comprehensible to.
3:11:57 Jesse Michels? Any average person because you get like a better image for a layman to read. For all I know, if I'm inside his head, he's thinking, I am just as confident looking at those like what look like thermal imaging blotches.
3:12:10 Speaker 02 So this is the final proof of concept, the Goddard Tunnel, another tunnel. Again, this is the tunnel, this is the mountain range here. So you can see the mountain range here.
3:12:21 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:12:22 Speaker 02 And the tunnel runs through here. And there's another one that goes underground here.
3:12:26 Jesse Michels? What is Goddard Tunnel?
3:12:28 Speaker 02 So it's just a tunnel through a mountain in Switzerland.
3:12:30 Jesse Michels? Oh, cool.
3:12:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:12:31 Speaker 01 I think two kilometers under the.
3:12:33 Speaker 02 Right.
3:12:34 Jesse Michels? So interesting.
3:12:35 Speaker 02 Again, in using the nomenclature from the first paper, transparent like a crystal. This is what I would want to see.
3:12:42 Jesse Michels? Yeah, it's beautiful.
3:12:43 Speaker 02 And again, it was just frustrating for me when I was going through this.
3:12:48 Speaker 02 So if you can, if you can come to the table with something like that. I think that would silence.
3:12:55 Jesse Michels? Oh, yeah.
3:12:55 Speaker 02 A lot of the haters. So debunking is an attempt to disprove. So when somebody is a debunker, they're trying to say SAR technology is fake because of X, Y, and Z reasons. So that's debunking. And there's a lot of people that have attempted to debunk this, to say it's fake. And then there's the other side where people absolutely love it and they really believe it. So that's what we mean by debunking. And again, that's not what I'm here to do. Clearly I'm interested and I'm fascinated by this. And I have a vested interest in knowing the truth.
3:13:32 Jesse Michels? Yeah, it's, we should come with a new term, which is stress testing. It's not debunking. It's, you know, if there is a there there, then you try it under all conditions. Constructively stress testing in a positive way, which I think we're doing here.
3:13:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:13:46 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:13:47 Speaker 02 So again, this is another image of the tunnel.
3:13:49 Jesse Michels? Cool.
3:13:49 Speaker 02 Going through here.
3:13:51 Jesse Michels? Wow.
3:13:51 Speaker 02 Again, the reason I showed these is because. Yeah, this is, this is supposed to be the proof of concept for the new scanning. But it's, it looks so much different that there's a contradiction between the quality of this. And then what is shown, I know you, I know you understand it. Of course, right? But, but all of us want to see this, especially the people that don't believe in this technology. You, you have to go back and do it again.
3:14:21 Jesse Michels? You do, you do, you do. And, and, and seriously. Come up with a number and like I will rally, Jeffrey will rally, everybody with the platform will rally to just crowdfund you the money. Let's try, we'll get you, we'll get you the money somehow. I mean, it's so important.
3:14:36 Speaker 01 We will do it.
3:14:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah, cuz it's on you, though, to come up with a number, come up with a figure and we'll get, you know, it's, it's, it's really important.
3:14:45 Speaker 02 So this is, the rest of the presentation is just going into their presentation during Malta, when they're showing the new scans from inside the Kafer Pyramid. You know, we already talked about the azimuth compression. This is the scan of the Osiris shaft. Okay, so this was another proof of concept, scanning a known structure to show that their technology is able to pick up the configuration that we absolutely know is there.
3:15:12 Jesse Michels? But here we're back to the kind of lower res.
3:15:15 Speaker 02 Correct.
3:15:15 Jesse Michels? Scans.
3:15:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
3:15:17 Jesse Michels? So that, that, that is, you know, good, a good sign of validation.
3:15:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, so there's been, there's been some issues proposed with this.
3:15:26 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:15:26 Speaker 02 So this is from a channel called Night Scarab, who did measurements that show that the signatures are off and that the measurements don't exactly match the known configuration.
3:15:39 Jesse Michels? What do you say to that, Palloper?
3:15:41 Speaker 01 Well, because any, any measurement is affected by errors and aberration. You remember that you are watching things that is propagating in matter.
3:15:51 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
3:15:52 Speaker 01 So.
3:15:53 Jesse Michels? So you're just saying this is within the margin of error?
3:15:56 Speaker 01 It's the best of what we can retrieve today.
3:15:59 Jesse Michels? What, sure, but what, why?
3:16:01 Speaker 01 We are not.
3:16:02 Jesse Michels? Yeah, of course.
3:16:03 Speaker 01 Gods.
3:16:04 Jesse Michels? But what?
3:16:04 Speaker 01 Humans, so.
3:16:06 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:16:06 Speaker 01 We have measurements that, oh, we have error.
3:16:09 Jesse Michels? Out of curiosity, what is the margin of error, like?
3:16:13 Speaker 01 Uh, which kind of the, the?
3:16:18 Speaker 02 So he was saying that the measurement.
3:16:20 Speaker 01 Few meters, I think.
3:16:20 Speaker 02 Four meters.
3:16:21 Speaker 01 Four meters of error.
3:16:22 Speaker 02 Which, considering you're measuring from space.
3:16:25 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:16:25 Speaker 02 Using vibrations from underground.
3:16:28 Speaker 01 We are measuring things.
3:16:29 Speaker 02 Is a relative.
3:16:30 Speaker 01 And you are telling me you made four meters of error.
3:16:33 Jesse Michels? Does anybody argue that the structure overall?
3:16:37 Jesse Michels? Doesn't comport with the Osiris shaft, or does everybody admit that it basically?
3:16:41 Speaker 02 So the only, right, so the only sort of caveat to this scan is this structure over here.
3:16:48 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:16:48 Speaker 02 So I actually went out to the Giza Plateau after the Malta conference. As soon as we got back, we live in Egypt, so I can go to the Giza Plateau anytime.
3:16:56 Speaker 01 I think you found something, no?
3:16:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's why I was asking you about the footprint, the square meter imaging footprint, the area of the footprint.
3:17:05 Speaker 01 That's, that's not, the footprint is very.
3:17:07 Speaker 02 It's, it's huge, right?
3:17:08 Speaker 01 The photographic light.
3:17:09 Speaker 02 Five kilometers by five kilometers is a huge footprint. And in the vicinity of the Osiris shaft, so it's located along the causeway, right? This connector pathway that leads from the Khafre Eastern Temple down to the Valley Temple in Sphinx. And the Osiris shaft is located below the causeway. So directly on top of the causeway, maybe 10 to 15 feet away from the Osiris shaft opening, is another rectangular opening in the causeway that is indicative of another bedrock shaft. There's these big vertical bedrock shafts all along the causeway adjacent to the central pyramid.
3:17:52 Speaker 02 They're just huge shafts that go down into the bedrock. There is an opening here at the top of the causeway that goes down into something. But like all of these bedrock shafts, they're completely filled in. It's filled, it's filled in with sand and debris, debris, yeah.
3:18:11 Speaker 01 And then now we show the some shaft of, of those.
3:18:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, later, later in the, the presentation. There's also another structure to the south of the causeway that appears to go underground. That's again, why I was asking about the footprint of the area.
3:18:27 Jesse Michels? Is he measuring any of these?
3:18:29 Speaker 02 Who?
3:18:30 Jesse Michels? Filippo and these scans.
3:18:31 Speaker 02 Oh, in terms of the the measurements?
3:18:33 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:18:33 Speaker 02 Oh, I don't know.
3:18:34 Jesse Michels? Okay, because that would be interesting if like you knew of something specific around the Osiris shaft that he picked up.
3:18:41 Speaker 02 Well, though, that's what I'm saying is we went out there and we found two different structures.
3:18:45 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:18:46 Speaker 02 In the vicinity of the Osiris shaft that could be creating this signature here.
3:18:52 Jesse Michels? Interesting.
3:18:53 Speaker 02 So we actually went out, my wife and I.
3:18:55 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:18:55 Speaker 02 Shout out to my wife Alexa from Archeo Alchemy that's been sitting over there patiently. Watching, watching this whole thing go down.
3:19:02 Jesse Michels? Audience members, live audience.
3:19:03 Speaker 02 And this is why we need to go out together, you, me and Ormando.
3:19:07 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:19:07 Speaker 02 Need to go to Giza Plateau and look at this stuff so that I'm I'm so I know the Giza Plateau like the back of my hand.
3:19:15 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:19:15 Speaker 02 And anytime we want to look at a structure, I know where there's anomalies and things like that all over the Giza Plateau that can help us get closer to the truth of what we're looking at here. So I did find some structures that are in the vicinity of the footprint of the scan area that could be producing this signature here on the left. So here on the right, we have level one, level two and level three.
3:19:41 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
3:19:42 Speaker 02 But then there's also these other horizontal signatures that go all the way down. This one, this one, you know, all of these different horizontal signatures. We Filippo, you don't have a conclusive explanation for what's producing this section here.
3:19:59 Speaker 01 I want to ask you a question.
3:20:02 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:20:03 Speaker 01 You know very well the structure of the Osiris shaft.
3:20:07 Speaker 02 Yep.
3:20:08 Speaker 01 The last floor where you have the swimming pool.
3:20:11 Speaker 02 Here, yes.
3:20:12 Speaker 01 Yes. There, there are some studies, some research that attempt to go and see what there is below the the water level.
3:20:23 Speaker 02 Have they excavated below the water level?
3:20:26 Speaker 01 Or or I don't know, they put the camera to see what or.
3:20:29 Speaker 02 No, no, as far as I know, the only investigation into anomalies inside the Osiris shaft is some connecting tunnels.
3:20:40 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:20:40 Speaker 02 There are some bedrock tunnels that connect into the Osiris shaft.
3:20:47 Speaker 02 During the original excavations, they did pump all of the water out.
3:20:51 Speaker 01 Oh, they, that is impossible.
3:20:53 Speaker 02 No, they did.
3:20:54 Speaker 01 Ah, they did.
3:20:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, they did a pump and they pumped, maybe not all of it, but they pumped the water out of the Osiris shaft. Yes.
3:21:01 Speaker 01 And so the water level was going down?
3:21:03 Speaker 02 Correct.
3:21:04 Speaker 01 And then, but if they don't pump any, don't pump anymore.
3:21:08 Speaker 02 It comes right back up.
3:21:09 Speaker 01 In, in how, how much time?
3:21:11 Speaker 02 Oh, I don't know, but so this was done by Zahih Hawass and team. They pumped all the water out so that they could lift the lid off of the container on the third level. So there's a container on the third level that's surrounded by four pillars. It's like a limestone island in the middle of this water with this big container. And they were going down in this thing, supposed to be the burial shaft of Osiris. And they're gonna lift the lid off of this container and find pharaonic burial or Osiris's body in here. Of course, absolutely nothing was discovered when they lifted the lid of this thing.
3:21:55 Jesse Michels? Wow.
3:21:55 Speaker 02 So they did pump the water out to do this excavation.
3:22:00 Speaker 01 And then off.
3:22:00 Speaker 02 After the excavation is done, the water level came right back up. Cause as I was saying, there's a, there's an independent aquifer directly below the structure here. And the third level of the Osiris shaft taps into the water level in this independent aquifer. So everything that we're showing here is underwater.
3:22:25 Speaker 01 So nobody knows how deep is the water?
3:22:28 Speaker 02 No.
3:22:29 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
3:22:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:22:31 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:22:32 Speaker 02 There's never been a hydrological investigation of the depth of the water below the Osiris shaft.
3:22:39 Jesse Michels? Can I ask a question?
3:22:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:22:41 Jesse Michels? How big the the substructures under the Koffler Pyramid that you feel like you're measuring, these columns hollow tubular structures, what is the circumference?
3:22:52 Speaker 01 Yes, I think I don't remember if we have indicated this, but approximately 20 meters.
3:23:02 Jesse Michels? Each one?
3:23:03 Speaker 01 The diameter.
3:23:05 Jesse Michels? But each the diameter of each, sorry, not yes, not circumference. What is the diameter?
3:23:10 Speaker 01 The diameter approximately 20 meters.
3:23:13 Jesse Michels? Of each tube?
3:23:15 Speaker 01 Yes, and they are this, and they have a distance of about five meters.
3:23:19 Jesse Michels? So each tube is 60 feet?
3:23:21 Speaker 01 20 meters. I don't.
3:23:22 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that to me, that makes me higher conviction. I have to say, because I, you know, if you're not measuring the Queen's Chamber because of some granite, you know, and it's too small or whatever, you know, I guess the granite actually helps as far as, yeah. So if you're not measuring the Queen's Chamber because it's too small, you know, and then you have this possible, you know, error margin here displayed in the Osiris shaft, that's four meters.
3:23:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:23:47 Jesse Michels? I do think if you have a 20 meter, single column, and then that's repeating four, four plus four, you know, eight times, that somehow feels like the only thing, if I were in his position, I could say pretty confidently, you know, and again, we have to get into like, can you penetrate below?
3:24:05 Speaker 02 So let's, let's get to that, because I have a pressing question that I'd like for you to answer.
3:24:11 Speaker 01 I'm here.
3:24:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, so everyone's seen, so this is some of the raw data.
3:24:15 Jesse Michels? Yep.
3:24:16 Speaker 02 Of their scan of the third pyramid, the Menkara Pyramid. Showing these vertical signatures below the Menkara Pyramid. Same thing here. These are more of the vertical signatures of these structures below the ground. Same thing here, Pyramid of Menkara. There's this big signature here of a possible vertical something below the structure. Here is the model that they presented at the end of the Malta Conference, showing the entire Giza Plateau and these underground vertical features connected into these cube features. The whole model here. So this gets into the question of the water level.
3:24:57 Jesse Michels? Some of the tubular structures are under the sphinx as well?
3:25:02 Speaker 01 Yes, we have measured. I don't know if we have the slide here. Yes, but the answer is yes.
3:25:09 Speaker 02 So here on the left in the data, you said that when the image tapers off here.
3:25:18 Speaker 01 A cutoff of energy. We discussed it in.
3:25:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just explaining to the people. So on the data here in these vertical columns, where the data starts to taper off is an indication of the water level.
3:25:32 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:25:32 Speaker 02 Okay, and that's reflected in the model.
3:25:35 Speaker 01 Could be the indication of the water level, but is not the water level is not present abruptly. Do this experiment. Take a dry sponge, dig a hole on the dry sponge. So you have the dry sponge and the hole on the dry sponge. Okay, you put the dry sponge here or into a container. And you put water.
3:26:10 Speaker 01 You will see that the water goes into the sponge. And for gravity, the water will stabilize somewhere. But the layer that represents the dry part of the sponge and the more wet part of the sponge is not abrupt. But you have.
3:26:37 Speaker 02 The transition. Right. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So the permeation of the water is not linear.
3:26:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not.
3:26:45 Speaker 02 It depends on the absorption of the material.
3:26:47 Speaker 01 Abrupt.
3:26:48 Speaker 02 Right, right. Okay.
3:26:49 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:26:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:26:51 Speaker 01 So I don't know. I that is a strange effect that as we discussed before, I can't give you an exact answer.
3:27:04 Speaker 02 Okay.
3:27:04 Speaker 01 That phenomena, because I don't know.
3:27:06 Speaker 02 Okay, and that was my question is the water level in the model and in the data is approximately a kilometer down.
3:27:17 Speaker 01 But this is not true.
3:27:18 Speaker 02 Correct. So that's my.
3:27:21 Speaker 01 The water level is. That it is.
3:27:24 Speaker 02 That's the next point.
3:27:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:27:26 Speaker 02 Is that the actual water level.
3:27:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:27:29 Speaker 02 Below the water table of the Giza Plateau.
3:27:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:27:32 Speaker 02 Is shown to be approximately fifty meters.
3:27:35 Speaker 01 Fifty meters.
3:27:35 Speaker 02 Below the plateau.
3:27:36 Speaker 01 One kilometer, not top.
3:27:37 Speaker 02 Correct.
3:27:38 Jesse Michels? Is it, is it fifteen or five zero?
3:27:40 Speaker 02 So it's fifteen meters above sea level, fifty meters below the plateau.
3:27:45 Jesse Michels? Got it.
3:27:45 Speaker 02 Right, so this is courtesy of ancient architects, another individual in the community. Who basically debunked, debunked the, the study.
3:27:54 Speaker 01 He's a debunker, no?
3:27:55 Speaker 02 He's a debunker, yes, yeah. So again, I was just curious, what was your explanation for the difference of the water level shown here?
3:28:04 Speaker 01 The water level, I, I tell you, you can.
3:28:07 Speaker 02 It's much higher.
3:28:07 Speaker 01 You can see it from this tomography.
3:28:09 Speaker 02 Here?
3:28:10 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:28:11 Speaker 02 This line?
3:28:11 Speaker 01 Approximately, approximately.
3:28:13 Speaker 02 Okay, so it's not where the image.
3:28:14 Speaker 01 Meters. You can see something related to the water level. Okay?
3:28:22 Speaker 02 Okay.
3:28:23 Speaker 01 And this is not that, but it's that one.
3:28:26 Speaker 02 So the tapering of the image here is not because of the water level?
3:28:32 Speaker 01 Maybe effectively, if, if you have an effective physical cutoff of something. And then they continue with another kind of structure.
3:28:44 Speaker 02 So this is, I think this is.
3:28:45 Speaker 01 I don't know, I, I, if you ask me, why is it like that?
3:28:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:28:49 Speaker 01 You have to go and see effectively.
3:28:51 Speaker 02 Sure.
3:28:52 Speaker 01 The measurements are those.
3:28:53 Speaker 02 Right. So, so what you're saying is that this is supposed to be a solid object.
3:29:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:29:01 Speaker 02 Going more than a kilometer down and connecting into these large cubes.
3:29:06 Speaker 01 It's very deep.
3:29:07 Speaker 02 However, the signature of this solid object.
3:29:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:29:11 Speaker 02 Does not.
3:29:12 Speaker 01 Changes, changes.
3:29:13 Speaker 02 Changes significantly.
3:29:14 Speaker 01 Significantly.
3:29:15 Speaker 02 The explanation you had given in Malta.
3:29:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:29:18 Speaker 02 Was because that the water level was here. But we both agree that this is not the water level that's causing the.
3:29:25 Speaker 01 Maybe is, is that, is that.
3:29:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, this blue line.
3:29:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
3:29:29 Speaker 02 Right? So if this is a solid object, what is creating the lack of signature here?
3:29:38 Speaker 01 I don't know.
3:29:39 Jesse Michels? Is the is does the lack of signature start a kilometer down? Or how many how many meters down is that kind of cut off where it starts to go from?
3:29:48 Speaker 01 Approximately 600.
3:29:51 Jesse Michels? Okay, so you I guess what then if I was you.
3:29:54 Speaker 01 Maybe there is a something that I was. But I can't disclosure it now. There is something I can't disclose it now.
3:30:04 Jesse Michels? Interesting. Okay. Okay, but um, is there a reason you're saying 600 meters? But like, why did you say it goes a kilometer deep?
3:30:13 Speaker 01 Yes, look how nice it is.
3:30:15 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:30:15 Speaker 01 You can see that cut off.
3:30:17 Jesse Michels? I do see that it maintains.
3:30:19 Speaker 01 Different different sensors. You see the same cut off.
3:30:24 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's what I'm wondering. Why? Why? Why are we saying a kilometer deep instead of 600 meters deep?
3:30:31 Speaker 01 I don't.
3:30:31 Jesse Michels? Well, that was just my estimate. So so. No, but it was his estimate.
3:30:35 Speaker 01 Maybe I am. I am saying something wrong.
3:30:38 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:30:38 Speaker 01 The vertical numbers you can read it. You can read.
3:30:43 Jesse Michels? So again, here, so they're getting a cutoff. So this is. Yeah, so this is 600 meters here. So this is where the image itself. And whatever this is, the signature of this starts to cut off. Okay. Here. But there it looks like it cuts off less and does extend down to.
3:31:03 Speaker 01 Depends on the tone.
3:31:04 Jesse Michels? Close to a kilometer.
3:31:05 Speaker 01 Depends on the processing procedure that we are doing. It depends.
3:31:08 Jesse Michels? Okay, hundreds of meters, you would say confidently, but and then you don't know what to attribute.
3:31:14 Speaker 01 No.
3:31:14 Jesse Michels? To Jeffrey's point, that sort of awkward gradient.
3:31:17 Speaker 01 Because now we are. We agree together that the water level is higher.
3:31:22 Jesse Michels? Sure.
3:31:23 Speaker 01 And and you have a cutoff of the signal.
3:31:26 Jesse Michels? Yeah, and all of all of these vertical signatures. Show a tapering of the signature. So that's that's an anomaly of these vertical signatures. That we don't have a good explanation for if this is a solid object. Why doesn't the signature register all the way down? It's not. We've agreed. It's not a result of the water table. There's there's something else happening with the signature where it's possibly no longer able to detect that deep. Well, do you? Do you have an alternative hypothesis or?
3:32:00 Speaker 02 So again, at this stage, I'm just asking questions.
3:32:04 Jesse Michels? Yep.
3:32:04 Speaker 01 Maybe we are focusing the attention on something that it is normal to have that kind of result.
3:32:11 Jesse Michels? Do you see an attenuation of signal?
3:32:14 Speaker 01 No, no, only here.
3:32:16 Jesse Michels? Okay, only here. So there is something idiosyncratic, unique here going on. Okay, that's interesting.
3:32:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we can see it here in this polarized tomographic image. This is again the vertical signatures. I will say, the polarized tomographic image, even the raw tomographic image.
3:32:30 Speaker 01 Nice.
3:32:31 Speaker 02 It's better.
3:32:31 Jesse Michels? Super nice. Those look very tubular and like, you know.
3:32:36 Speaker 02 Same thing here. It has that same, the deeper it goes.
3:32:39 Jesse Michels? Even when you get that awkward kind of gradient cut off, like it still looks like it's maintaining some sort of structure.
3:32:47 Speaker 01 Look, the water level is here.
3:32:49 Jesse Michels? This, up at the top. Yeah, yeah, got it. Okay. So Felipe, would you admit now that you didn't know about exactly where the water level was back then?
3:33:01 Speaker 01 No.
3:33:01 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:33:02 Speaker 01 We can make mistakes.
3:33:04 Jesse Michels? Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, of course.
3:33:06 Speaker 01 Properly is the water level, but no, because the water level is now.
3:33:11 Jesse Michels? Sure. It's much, yeah, much higher. Can I ask a dumb question? Because a lot of this is prefaced on this idea of these structures being man-made and artificial. And so two questions.
3:33:22 Speaker 01 My God.
3:33:23 Jesse Michels? You don't know?
3:33:24 Speaker 01 Hey, no, we don't know.
3:33:26 Jesse Michels? We don't know. But at least a lot of the speculation around them is around being.
3:33:31 Speaker 01 We know they are man-made.
3:33:33 Jesse Michels? But if it's an artificial structure, how would you build something that penetrates that deeply into the water table?
3:33:39 Speaker 01 And you asked to me?
3:33:40 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:33:41 Speaker 01 Okay, you are asking me this?
3:33:42 Jesse Michels? Yeah. Have you speculated about that? I mean, you have to have thought of it or?
3:33:47 Speaker 01 It is something that we, I discuss about this issue with Corrado.
3:33:53 Jesse Michels? Okay.
3:33:54 Speaker 01 And we agree that it is something that it is man-made. Okay, so somebody built those things there. It can be that once the pyramids were built, so from the top.
3:34:14 Speaker 01 Maybe they dig at hole, they dig at on the bottom, but it it they are not simply holes.
3:34:25 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
3:34:26 Speaker 01 They are built. How can, how can I say?
3:34:29 Jesse Michels? But if if they're 20 meters in diameter and they're going a kilometer
3:34:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:34:33 Jesse Michels? Then I'm going with aliens. Like, how do, how do we explain that? That's pretty I know, I knew. That feels harder to explain than the construction of the pyramids themselves, which are really hard to explain.
3:34:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, but so that's the problem, though, is that's where this disintegrates from an academic conversation regarding the actual data to the leap of speculation into alien constructions.
3:34:56 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:34:56 Speaker 02 Which is why the academic community has outright rejected this whole thing. Because there's no physical way that these could possibly have been built. Period. There's, there's no way.
3:35:09 Jesse Michels? Yeah, but you, you would say the same thing about the pyramid.
3:35:12 Speaker 02 We don't understand. Well, I agree with you there.
3:35:14 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:35:14 Speaker 02 We, we still don't understand the mechanisms of operation.
3:35:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:35:17 Speaker 02 But it's also a completely different conversation, building something above ground. When we're talking about, how could you even excavate into the bedrock to be able to build something? It's the, the, the logistics of the engineering. So we were talking kind of off camera. How the civilization that built the pyramids and associated structures were absolutely able to build components that tap into the existing water level. The Osirion is excavated from the bedrock and constructed to tap directly into the water table below the structure. The configuration of the temple structure is precisely designed so that it hits that water table.
3:36:03 Speaker 02 Again, an independent aquifer that's not connected to the Nile River. Because the water level inside the Osirion is the same as it was in the original design. The island and the reservoir surrounding the island. Same thing with the Osiris shaft. They were capable of building structures that go down to the water level and tap into the water level. Now we're talking about going a kilometer below the water level to excavate. The whole thing is filled with water. If they are real, I have a difficult time accepting that there is such a thing that is a manmade structure that goes a kilometer deep.
3:36:47 Speaker 02 However, the Giza Plateau is the bottom of an ocean from millions of years ago. The Tethys Sea, are you familiar with the formation of the Giza Plateau? Right, it used to be the bottom of an ocean millions of years ago. And there is evidence of hydrothermal mineral deposits on the Giza Plateau. So hydrothermal vents are vertical structures that can go kilometers deep into the bedrock.
3:37:19 Jesse Michels? Whoa.
3:37:21 Speaker 02 So we can talk about this here in just a second. I just, I want to walk through one more piece of data. So we've talked, can I ask one more question?
3:37:28 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah. Because it's very related to the logistics of being able to build something that goes, penetrates a kilometer deep. And this is a, this is a flint double point. Is it too hot down there?
3:37:39 Speaker 01 Ah, yes.
3:37:39 Jesse Michels? Remember?
3:37:40 Speaker 01 Yes, we had to speak about this.
3:37:45 Speaker 01 It is very simple to give you an answer. The first thing is,
3:37:52 Speaker 01 it is
3:37:55 Speaker 01 normal that people could be there. Maybe you can build, yes, to build these structures, people has to go down, down, yes, that's true. But there are a lot of methods to cool down high temperature. The first one is this. The enormous quantity of shafts that are present on the surface of the Giza Plateau, that are filled with debris. And one of those, I showed them in the presentation, I don't know if you extrapolate.
3:38:33 Jesse Michels? I have that in here too, yeah.
3:38:36 Speaker 01 There are a lot of shafts, and the shafts
3:38:40 Speaker 01 are, can have the function of giving air, giving light, and so cooling the underground structures that are below. So, the answer is, okay, we want to build something like that, yes. Let's begin building this thing, this
3:39:05 Speaker 01 mega, mega, mega structure here by digging and building the cooling shafts. Okay, we start from the shafts. Then, once we are downstairs there, we intercept maybe natural horizontal cavities, okay? And so, we build and we start to build. In some way, they did it. In some way, somebody did these things. So, the vertical shafts that you find, principally between the Sphinx and the Kafr Pyramid,
3:39:46 Speaker 01 there are three, four or five shafts that are blocked by debris. And those facilities, we are thinking to submit a proposal to the Egyptian government. Because those shafts can be the entrance of the underground facility. Without doing any kind of drill, we don't have to drill.
3:40:14 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:40:15 Speaker 01 We only have to clean.
3:40:17 Jesse Michels? Amazing.
3:40:18 Speaker 01 We only have to clean enough.
3:40:19 Jesse Michels? Well, I hope you get that approval. I guess, another question I would have is, are all of the tubular structures a kilometer deep? The ones under the Sphinx as well, they all are hundreds of meters deep?
3:40:32 Speaker 01 I have the slide. Yes, because at two.
3:40:40 Speaker 01 Transport fresh air and light into the belows, the structures that are below.
3:40:49 Speaker 02 Um um.
3:40:50 Speaker 01 Yes, and I tell you. Eh eh those, Tag forty seven.
3:40:56 Speaker 02 Here.
3:40:56 Speaker 01 One, yes, those.
3:40:58 Speaker 02 So this is, this is the causeway here.
3:41:00 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:41:00 Speaker 02 Right, so we're talking about the Osiris shaft being located on the causeway.
3:41:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:41:05 Speaker 02 And these bedrock vertical shafts are adjacent to the causeway.
3:41:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:41:10 Speaker 02 On both sides, so there's some over here on this side and some on the southern side. They go down vertically into the bedrock.
3:41:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:41:17 Speaker 02 To an unknown depth, they've never been fully excavated. They were filled with debris and sand, now also trash accumulation for, you know.
3:41:27 Speaker 01 A plastic.
3:41:27 Speaker 02 Decades and all, all sorts of stuff, just completely filled in with junk.
3:41:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, all the tires that are of.
3:41:34 Speaker 02 And there.
3:41:35 Speaker 01 There is, there is rubbish.
3:41:37 Speaker 02 And so there's, there's evidence, even just looking down into these vertical pits. There's evidence of transverse horizontal shafts, so.
3:41:46 Speaker 01 We did it, I detected.
3:41:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, they, they, they showed that. So these shafts go down vertically into the bedrock.
3:41:52 Speaker 01 Um hum.
3:41:53 Speaker 02 And then there's horizontal transverse connecting shafts that link these things. So in, in my opinion, that's part of the industrial infrastructure of the Giza Plateau. And I'll, I have a slide on that here in just a sec. So the other pressing question, Filippo, I know you know this was coming. And this is kind of the last question I have for you.
3:42:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:42:13 Speaker 02 So this is the data of the scan of the Kafra Pyramid. And the big objection is the fact that the known chambers are not shown on the data. So this is above the Belzoni Chamber here. And the known chambers should be somewhere down here.
3:42:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:42:35 Speaker 02 So this is, this is the configuration of the Kafra Pyramid, the known internal chambers. And all of these areas that are marked with hash marks here are bedrock excavated chambers. So they're carved directly from the bedrock of the Giza Plateau. And this was the statement, I don't know if you wrote this or if Armando wrote this, but so it states here that the detection issues related to the known structures inside the Kafrah Pyramid, the satellite data only reveals the entrance descending corridor and the roof. This is because the structures are embedded in a limestone slab that absorbs
3:43:17 Speaker 02 the signal. So this is the bedrock of the Giza Plateau from which these chambers are excavated. This is no deeper than 15 meters into the bedrock. And the radar signal is absorbed in that limestone bedrock, according to the quote from your team. Again, I don't think, I think Armando wrote this. I don't know if you wrote this, but this was published on the Facebook page. So can you clarify why the signal is being absorbed in this
3:43:56 Speaker 02 bedrock? And then how, if it's absorbed in 15 meters of bedrock here, how can it possibly scan any deeper?
3:44:07 Speaker 01 Okay, yes. The answer is this. Let's start from this matter of fact. We are not detecting the Belzoni. We are not detecting the narrow corridors. Yes, the narrow corridors because in that tomographic line that we are using, they are not present.
3:44:33 Speaker 02 Okay.
3:44:33 Speaker 01 So now we are dealing this problem, being aware that the sometimes targets are not detected.
3:44:46 Speaker 01 In this case, we think that the exactly what that message was, we wrote that message, because the most part of the vibrational energy in that case were attenuated a lot the signal. So we would not be able to retrieve the Belzoni chamber and also other corridors, because no energy. We failed the detection of those known chambers. Okay, okay.
3:45:28 Jesse Michels? But then the next logical question is, if you're saying that the signal is getting absorbed and attenuated because of limestone that's just 15 meters deep, then why...
3:45:41 Speaker 01 How you are detecting those...
3:45:43 Jesse Michels? A kilometer through the same limestone?
3:45:45 Speaker 01 Yes. It is a question of measurements. In those measurements, we were not able to retrieve those structures, okay. But considering the particular configuration of those huge tubes descending approximately for more than 1 kilometers, having a diameter of approximately 20 meters,
3:46:15 Speaker 01 we can see that they are very big, okay. So you are comparing a very small object with huge structures. So I don't think that this is a point of comparison, a good comparison point, because you are comparing huge structures with something very small.
3:46:45 Speaker 01 So in this case, the very small things are not detected. And that's a matter of fact. You ask me why we gave that explanation. Because the bedrock, we don't have the vibration. We don't have the vibration. But we have the vibrations to detect the huge structure. And we have detected the things very clearly. That's the answer. It is obvious that this work, we have to continue to do this work. So we have to continue to scan the Cafre Pyramid.
3:47:29 Speaker 01 And so I am sure that we will find results that show us also the bedrock.
3:47:39 Speaker 02 You gotta bring the Gran Sasso improved methodology and do it again.
3:47:46 Jesse Michels? We need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:47:47 Speaker 02 This Filippo, this is critical. Because again, to say that the energy and the micro vibrations are absorbed in bedrock 15 meters deep. The deeper you go, the more bedrock there is. And the more bedrock there is to prevent these vibrations from being detected. So this is, it's a big issue. And this is the biggest objection that's been proposed in the community. Is this bedrock excavated chamber.
3:48:18 Speaker 01 There is also another thing that I have to explain you. Why there are things that are very visible and things that are difficult to be detected.
3:48:33 Speaker 01 It is a question of measurements. Sometimes things are invisible. Sometimes things are very visible, are very bright.
3:48:42 Speaker 01 We found that if things are anchored on the surface of the earth, anchored, so they start from the surface, like the pyramid, like that, like, we see it very, very clear because the evanescent waves are very energetically on the boundary, so on the surface of the earth.
3:49:18 Speaker 01 In that case, the shafts are directly connected to the surface of the earth. So why the vibration, the surface vibrates, we can detect the vibrations. In that case, the Belzoni is something that is not directly connected, as you say, it's there, yes. So we need to scan it more, more and more.
3:49:40 Jesse Michels? Have you tried doing these scans on any other limestone bedrock specifically?
3:49:46 Speaker 01 We have the shafts.
3:49:48 Jesse Michels? The Osiris shaft?
3:49:49 Speaker 01 The shafts, but also the vertical shafts.
3:49:51 Jesse Michels? How deep, how deep are those?
3:49:53 Speaker 02 So, we don't know how deep they go. He shows that they're going down hundreds of meters, according to the scans, yeah.
3:50:01 Speaker 01 And those are anchored on the surface of the earth, so we can see it.
3:50:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, so the the opening of the shaft is actually on the surface.
3:50:09 Speaker 01 On the surface.
3:50:10 Speaker 02 So you can look down directly into the shaft and see that it goes down into the bedrock.
3:50:15 Jesse Michels? Yep.
3:50:15 Speaker 02 So that reminded me of a good point. So another thing we need is control samples. So for example, you provided really good proof of concept in the scanning of the tunnels and the physics laboratory. Those are fantastic. Another thing that we don't have in the studies are control samples.
3:50:39 Speaker 01 No, I have it.
3:50:40 Speaker 02 So for example.
3:50:41 Speaker 01 I have mines.
3:50:42 Speaker 02 No, no, no, so so scan a structure just like a hill where there is nothing there.
3:50:50 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:50:50 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah.
3:50:51 Speaker 02 To show us a control sample comparison.
3:50:55 Speaker 01 We can do it, yes, yes.
3:50:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, so that people can see, so this hill,
3:50:58 Speaker 01 Sis, sis.
3:50:58 Speaker 02 We're gonna scan the hill and show what is inside of a hill,
3:51:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:51:03 Speaker 02 where we know there's nothing inside and we know there's no big vertical. So this has been another big criticism is that there's no control sample comparison.
3:51:14 Speaker 01 We will do it, yes, we can do it.
3:51:15 Speaker 02 So this is also important in a scientific study. You always want to have a control sample so that you can compare the control sample to the test sample.
3:51:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:51:25 Jesse Michels? Can I just ask, because this touches on what you're asking.
3:51:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
3:51:28 Jesse Michels? In the context, these commercial contexts where you're under NDA, you don't need to talk about any of the specifics. But I would just ask you, how many instances are there of these? Because it's not a perfect control, like, you know, Jeff is sort of describing here, but it is somewhat of a control where you're looking for like minerals and other things. And we can kind of pattern match like regular land versus these megalithic archaeological sites.
3:51:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:51:54 Jesse Michels? So do you know, like, how, how many times have you done this roughly?
3:51:58 Speaker 01 What?
3:51:59 Jesse Michels? If you had to estimate, just the method.
3:52:00 Speaker 01 The...
3:52:01 Jesse Michels? Scanning, like on anything, like, is it, is it between a hundred and a thousand, between a thousand and ten thousand?
3:52:07 Speaker 01 How, how many sites?
3:52:10 Jesse Michels? Yeah, how, how many different sites? Yeah, it's a better question.
3:52:13 Speaker 01 Not a lot, about ten.
3:52:14 Jesse Michels? About ten, okay, got it.
3:52:16 Speaker 01 But they're sufficient to, to show things where are present, let's see, let's say mines.
3:52:25 Jesse Michels? Mm hmm.
3:52:25 Speaker 01 So tunnels inside, tunnels.
3:52:29 Jesse Michels? Yeah. And we're both assuming.
3:52:32 Speaker 01 Things that are more controlled where nothing is present.
3:52:36 Jesse Michels? And we're.
3:52:36 Speaker 01 So you have difference.
3:52:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah, and we're assuming you've never seen anything like this, anything like these column like twenty meter, you know, diameter.
3:52:46 Speaker 01 Are present because you see signals that are devastating. You, you see those columns, what are those?
3:52:53 Jesse Michels? Are there other times where they've missed structures that are more suspended and not tied to the foundational bedrock of the earth? Are there other examples of that where they missed?
3:53:04 Speaker 01 Yes, I have it, I have, I have those kind of, yes.
3:53:07 Jesse Michels? It's, it's exciting.
3:53:08 Speaker 01 The experience that's, that's if they, if these things are anchored on the surface of the earth is better.
3:53:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, no, it makes sense.
3:53:17 Speaker 01 Better.
3:53:18 Jesse Michels? I mean, this is exciting because it's, it's a I, you know, the way I net out is like you have, you got a lot of work to do, you know? But I don't think, I don't think anything's conclusive in either direction. I think you gotta just keep going.
3:53:32 Speaker 01 It's something new.
3:53:33 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my conclusion.
3:53:36 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:53:36 Speaker 01 So, all the questions and thank you for your questions.
3:53:39 Speaker 02 Of course, yeah.
3:53:40 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
3:53:40 Speaker 02 I care about this, Filippo. This is important.
3:53:43 Speaker 01 I tried to give you the best answer.
3:53:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:53:45 Speaker 01 So, in the position that I am now, I maybe, I mean, I am a bit tired because of the jet lag.
3:53:51 Jesse Michels? No, understandably.
3:53:53 Speaker 01 And maybe this last issue, this is an issue that of the Belzoni, I am thinking always of the Belzoni.
3:54:02 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:54:02 Speaker 01 We will solve it. We will solve it. So, it has to be investigated.
3:54:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:54:10 Speaker 01 We solve also this issue. So, the issue is why we are not watching the Belzoni. At the moment, what you read is the best answer that we can give you.
3:54:21 Speaker 02 Right, right, yeah.
3:54:22 Speaker 01 But we will, I will ensure you, I assure you that more scans will be done on the Cafré in order to find something to detect, basically.
3:54:35 Speaker 02 Okay. So, I know you have a big day tomorrow.
3:54:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:54:39 Speaker 02 And I'll wrap this up quickly, just so we can get through this. And I know, you know, we both traveled yesterday and I'll just kind of cover this briefly. So, we're talking about Luis Álvarez.
3:54:49 Jesse Michels? Yep. I see that.
3:54:51 Speaker 01 Just, just one thing about the vertical shafts.
3:54:55 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:54:56 Speaker 01 The vertical shafts are very important. I don't know why nobody went there to excavate, to excavate to clean, I'm sorry.
3:55:03 Speaker 02 The bedrock shafts, yeah.
3:55:05 Speaker 01 Why?
3:55:06 Speaker 02 There's, there's, so there's also no good archaeological explanation for what those shafts are for. From, from the pharaonic burial perspective.
3:55:17 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:55:17 Speaker 02 Archaeology and Egyptology does not have a good explanation for those vertical bedrock shafts adjacent to the causeway. Some of, some of them are burials.
3:55:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:55:29 Speaker 02 Where they've found smaller ones and they've found bodies.
3:55:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:55:34 Speaker 02 Down inside of these because
3:55:37 Speaker 02 There have been a plethora of burials discovered on the Giza Plateau. Not in the pyramids, but in structures adjacent to the pyramid structures. So they have found intrusive burials in some of these shafts. But there's not a good consensus for why these things are there.
3:55:56 Speaker 01 They can.
3:55:57 Speaker 02 So they've never excavated.
3:55:58 Speaker 01 They made it after the original construction.
3:56:01 Speaker 02 Sure, that's another question is which came first?
3:56:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:56:05 Speaker 02 And are those bedrock shafts an original part? Or are they part of the dynastic era construction? So that's always a problem when looking at the layers of building and construction in Egypt.
3:56:17 Speaker 01 You observed from the internal those shafts. And you, I'm, I think that you believe me that are made with squared constructions, one on each other, like that, that goes down.
3:56:35 Speaker 02 Going down into the bedrock, yes.
3:56:38 Speaker 01 And I tell you that for me, the shafts are waterproof. It means that the water that is the water level, if you, if you, if you can see the water level that is outside the shafts.
3:56:53 Speaker 02 Right.
3:56:54 Speaker 01 The water is not able to go inside the shafts.
3:56:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:56:59 Speaker 01 So if we clean the shafts.
3:57:01 Speaker 02 Yep.
3:57:01 Speaker 01 We always find air, not water. Also, we go below a lot. Okay, I don't know if you are, if you agree with my idea.
3:57:12 Speaker 02 Yes, because that also fits with my hypothesis on the function of those systems.
3:57:20 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:57:20 Speaker 02 So that's, that would get us into another hour long discussion on. So you and I should, you and I should sit down and talk about the function of everything sometime.
3:57:30 Speaker 01 And so the project proposal that we are submitting, we are thinking to submit these weeks. We are involving University of Ferrara, we are involving other academic.
3:57:48 Speaker 01 Organization.
3:57:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:57:51 Speaker 01 I am out of this project because it's better that I will remain out. And we, our intention is to use robots.
3:57:59 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:57:59 Speaker 01 Not humans, because it's dangerous to go, to go there.
3:58:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:58:03 Speaker 01 To use robots and clean the shafts.
3:58:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:58:06 Speaker 01 I don't know.
3:58:06 Speaker 02 They should do that anyway.
3:58:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:58:08 Speaker 02 Because of all the trash.
3:58:09 Speaker 01 Yes, let's say, eh, we can go below one, two, five meters a day. Okay.
3:58:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:58:17 Speaker 01 We just begin to work and every day we go.
3:58:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. So the, so this next thing, I, I mentioned that there was a Muon scanning of the central pyramid. Luis Alvarez, I knew I recognized the name, so he was a part of this. They scanned the Belzoni chamber and the area above the Belzoni chamber. They didn't find anything. So they scanned approximately nineteen percent of the total volume in an area here that was a cone half angle of thirty-five degrees from the vertical. So it's this cone that they scanned above the Belzoni chamber.
3:58:52 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:58:53 Speaker 02 And they didn't find anything. These are also supposedly located directly above the Belzoni chamber. And we've already kind of had a back and forth discussion about which is the most viable detection method, Muon scanning or SAR scanning. Muon scanning says there's nothing. SAR is now detecting something.
3:59:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:59:14 Speaker 02 So again, we don't have to get into a labor discussion about, you know, who's right and who's wrong.
3:59:19 Speaker 01 No, it's better that they work together.
3:59:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:59:22 Speaker 01 Maybe in this case, Muon, Muon, the old version of Muon, because that's a paper.
3:59:27 Speaker 02 From the seventies, yeah.
3:59:28 Speaker 01 The seventies.
3:59:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:59:29 Speaker 01 Eh, maybe in that, and I am not criticizing Muons because they are fantastic. Eh, maybe in that time, they are detecting nothing on, on a thirty-five percent of aperture.
3:59:42 Speaker 02 Correct. Do you have an explanation, though, for why they didn't detect anything above the Belzoni chamber and you?
3:59:50 Speaker 01 I tell you why. I tell you why, because the, as now we know that the Muon scanning eh, are detecting things that is the sum of everything you are watching on the top is the sum like that.
4:00:07 Speaker 01 And so it is, it is, it is difficult for me to, to see things, facilities, when you are watching the sum of everything. You saw fifty years later that paper, so now the modern, the modern Muon detectors.
4:00:33 Speaker 01 They are, it is highly probability that they are saying that there is a big void on the Grand Gallery, which is parallel, but in my best opinion are watching the top and the bottom and the roof, the roof and the, and the floor of the big gallery, of the Grand Gallery.
4:00:53 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:00:53 Speaker 01 Like that, like that, look, they're watching this and that. It means that the technique fails sometimes. And it failed, maybe it failed also fifty years ago, at, in the, in the period of when the paper was, was written, using old detectors. Who knows, there is something that happened and they are detecting nothing.
4:01:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, and I don't know that any recent Muon scanning has been done inside the Central Pyramid. So they need to go back and do it again.
4:01:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, they, they have to, they have to do it again. Why, why do they, they, they, they do, they, why they didn't install detectors inside the Berzoni?
4:01:42 Speaker 02 Right, right.
4:01:43 Speaker 01 No?
4:01:43 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:01:45 Jesse Michels? It's a good question.
4:01:46 Speaker 02 So, so just kind of a final note, that was, that was the end of my questions for the SAR project. And Filippo, I think you did a really, really good job today.
4:01:54 Speaker 01 Thank you.
4:01:55 Speaker 02 In answering to the best of your ability.
4:01:57 Speaker 01 That I could.
4:01:58 Speaker 02 Absolutely, yeah. Sure.
4:02:01 Jesse Michels? Agreed.
4:02:01 Speaker 02 So the the final note here is just a mention of these hydrothermal veins.
4:02:05 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
4:02:05 Speaker 01 Yes.
4:02:06 Speaker 02 And iron ore deposits. So here I'm standing in the middle.
4:02:09 Speaker 01 This photo, look how nice it is.
4:02:10 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you.
4:02:11 Speaker 01 There you can you can find the floor of the of the Giza Plateau where the pyramids are on.
4:02:20 Speaker 02 Yes.
4:02:20 Speaker 01 Those.
4:02:21 Speaker 02 So this is bedrock here.
4:02:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:02:23 Speaker 02 This is limestone paving. This this part here is manmade.
4:02:27 Speaker 01 It's manmade.
4:02:28 Speaker 02 This part here.
4:02:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:02:29 Speaker 02 This is bedrock.
4:02:30 Speaker 01 Hmm.
4:02:31 Speaker 02 Limestone bedrock.
4:02:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:02:32 Speaker 02 That's permeated with iron ore deposits, metal ore minerals, which is directly applicable to the utilization of your technology
4:02:40 Speaker 01 Si.
4:02:40 Speaker 02 for finding metal ore mineral deposits. So this is this is where these two things have a synergy that I think we need to look at further. So here I'm down inside of one of these quote unquote boat pits.
4:02:52 Speaker 01 Hmm.
4:02:53 Speaker 02 And this is an image of.
4:02:56 Speaker 01 This is a tube, a tube, a metal tube.
4:02:58 Speaker 02 Metal tube, correct. It's an it's an it's an iron.
4:03:01 Speaker 01 I saw it. It's a metal tube.
4:03:02 Speaker 02 It's an iron ore vein. Yeah. So these are, you've never seen this before.
4:03:06 Jesse Michels? That's wild.
4:03:07 Speaker 02 So this is about a foot and a half long.
4:03:10 Jesse Michels? Uh huh.
4:03:10 Speaker 02 And a foot deep, and it's a tube.
4:03:13 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
4:03:13 Speaker 02 Of iron ore.
4:03:15 Jesse Michels? Cool.
4:03:15 Speaker 02 And these veins run all through the Giza Plateau.
4:03:20 Jesse Michels? Wow.
4:03:20 Speaker 01 Yes.
4:03:21 Speaker 02 They are hydrothermal metal ore mineral deposits that are embedded in the limestone bedrock of the Giza Plateau.
4:03:28 Jesse Michels? Wow.
4:03:30 Speaker 02 So these are the results of hydrothermal vent systems.
4:03:35 Speaker 01 Hmm.
4:03:35 Speaker 02 Seafloor hydrothermal vents that push these metal minerals up from the earth, and then they deposit them on the surface and inside the layers of the bedrock.
4:03:45 Speaker 01 Hmm.
4:03:46 Speaker 02 That's how these things form. So here in red, I have depicted these.
4:03:52 Speaker 02 Vertical bedrock shafts adjacent to the causeway and the interconnecting transverse shafts. So you can actually look down in this, you know, about 20 meters down and you can see the transverse connecting shafts that aren't that deep. Here we have what Filippo's team is showing, which could be the remnants of some of these hydrothermal mineral vents, these hydrothermal vents coming out from the bedrock with the magma chamber. So again, there's magma down here, which could be these cubic type formations, huge geological formations that are known to go down kilometers into the bedrock.
4:04:37 Speaker 01 Very interesting.
4:04:38 Speaker 02 What do you think about that theory?
4:04:40 Speaker 01 It is a theory. I accept it absolutely like I accept very well the theory of Christopher Dunn and the theory of Geoffrey.
4:04:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:04:50 Speaker 01 We, we, I am, we have to collaborate all and see effectively what there is and
4:05:01 Speaker 01 which is the effective purpose of the Giza Plateau.
4:05:06 Speaker 02 Exactly.
4:05:07 Speaker 01 It, it can be not only mine or yours or also the sum of multiple purposes.
4:05:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:05:16 Speaker 01 Something like that.
4:05:17 Speaker 02 And I think that understanding the impetus for choosing Giza is critical in understanding the overall function of the Giza Plateau. Because we have hydrothermal vents, we have metal ore mineral deposits. And in this paper, they've also shown that there is a karst cave and tunnel system that is the source of hydrogen sulfide gas coming up from the Giza Plateau. So there's caves and tunnels all throughout the Giza Plateau, natural, that you can also see produce these vertical features located directly below the Giza Plateau.
4:06:01 Speaker 02 And my hypothesis for the function of the Great Pyramid is that the hydrogen sulfide gas coming from this subterranean karst cave and tunnel system is the initial reactant in the chemical manufacturing sequence within the Great Pyramid.
4:06:17 Jesse Michels? Hmm.
4:06:18 Speaker 02 So they picked the Giza Plateau specifically because of all of these features in the bedrock, the metal, the hydrothermal vents, all of it works in conjunction with the system above ground. So there is absolutely something below the Giza Plateau located directly below the pyramids.
4:06:39 Jesse Michels? What would you do with the hydrogen sulfide?
4:06:40 Speaker 02 Convert it into sulfuric acid.
4:06:42 Jesse Michels? And what would you do with the sulfuric acid?
4:06:44 Speaker 02 Sulfuric acid can be used for fertilizer applications, but also specifically for mining and metallurgy.
4:06:50 Jesse Michels? Got it.
4:06:51 Speaker 02 Because we have a huge supply of metal ore directly on the Giza Plateau.
4:06:55 Jesse Michels? So agriculture and mining and metallurgy.
4:06:59 Speaker 01 Also gold mining, no?
4:07:00 Speaker 02 So the samples of the iron ore deposits on the Giza Plateau also contain gold, silver, electron, precious metals, rare earth elements, everything that you could think of, we'll talk about it.
4:07:14 Jesse Michels? Love it.
4:07:15 Speaker 02 I have all the sample analysis data.
4:07:17 Jesse Michels? This is the perfect cliffhanger to end on.
4:07:19 Speaker 01 And also, there is also electricity inside this.
4:07:23 Speaker 02 So in the veins, we also found fulgarites, fossilized lightning in these iron ore veins. We have samples that contain fulgarites, which is evidence of high voltage electric current distribution through these iron veins. We'll get into it tomorrow.
4:07:44 Jesse Michels? Oh, wow. Okay, well, what a cliffhanger.
4:07:47 Speaker 01 I think we have to do another.
4:07:48 Jesse Michels? Yeah, we do, seriously. No, but this has been amazing. Jeffrey, really appreciate your questions. My pleasure. You asked just really detailed first principles questions, but that were very respectful. And I think this was just this beautiful exploration. And Filippo, you know, I can't say enough about how just open you are to fielding these sorts of questions. A lot of people get very precious about their theories and they don't let them be questioned.
4:08:16 Speaker 01 Thank you for these questions.
4:08:19 Jesse Michels? You're clearly not that. You're clearly open to updating your own hypotheses, beliefs. And I think we have a lot of action items here. I think maybe the biggest one is getting those thinly sliced, you know, what you did with the Grand Sasso, but for, you know, the structures underneath the copper pyramid. But this was amazing and I appreciate you both.
4:08:38 Speaker 01 Thank you.
4:08:39 Jesse Michels? Awesome.
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