Meet The Scientist Who Studies Alien Implants in Human Bodies

Factor: Head to https://factormeals.coma/lchemy50off and use code alchemy50off to get 50 percent off and free breakfast for a year! ExpressVPN: Get 4 months free at https://www.expressvpn.com/americanalchemy Our American Alchemist this week is Steve Colbern. Steve Colbern spent over two decades as the principal laboratory analyst for Dr. Roger Leir, the podiatric surgeon who removed 17 suspected alien implants from 17 different patients across a roughly 20-year period out of Thousand Oaks, California. Colbern is a chemist and materials scientist who had access to advanced analytic equipment through his work in Camarillo, just miles from Leir's practice. He personally attended the final three removal surgeries, including his own. He has since conducted approximately 400 independent scans on self-reported experiencers using Leir's detection protocol. About half produced positive results. -------------------------- Support Our Other Projects Below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Apply For Jobs ➤ [email protected] Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 1:45 Longevity and Life Extension 3:22 The Legacy of Dr. Roger Lear 4:28 Understanding Alien Implants 7:32 The Nature of Alien Technology 10:36 The Experience of Abduction 12:33 Inside the UFO 15:18 The Alien Agenda 20:10 Anti-Gravity and Time Travel 31:56 The Physics of Alien Technology 39:12 The Impact of Implants 49:28 The Scope of Alien Abductions 1:06:58 Good and Bad Aliens 1:14:10 Research on Alien Implants 1:27:05 The Oklahoma City Incident 1:29:01 The Interest of Wealthy Sponsors 1:31:19 The Influence of Alien Experiences Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Two small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said, "Come outside." And I put on these steel toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them. And there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard. I woke up and I knew that I had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night. And I had one more on the side of my head, too.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Wow. We found the object and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever removed before.

• 1:30Speaker 04

  If you can just feel my ear right there, you see that there's-

• 1:34Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah. There's something in his ear.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  Mine that sticks to my ear.

• 1:41Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. Whoa. Some of my favorite interviews have been these guys, they have implants. You know, they're close encounters of the third kind, type two abductions.

• 1:52Speaker 06

  I go in for the post-operation meeting with the doctor and he said, "I found something in your right nostril that was so hard, I almost couldn't break through it."

• 2:02Jesse Michels?

  How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  350,000 people. These people are way too powerful to fight. And they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything they want you to do willingly.

• 2:14Jesse Michels?

  The beings that implanted you, think good or bad?

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:23Jesse Michels?

  Ignition sequence five.

• 2:27Jesse Michels?

  How is this possible? Nothing to mention about that.

• 2:33Jesse Michels?

  Their existence cannot longer be denied.

• 2:44Jesse Michels?

  We've talked a bit about longevity and life extension on this show. Extending your telomeres, metabolic optimization. And the through line is always the same. Most of what determines how long you live comes down to really basic stuff. Not these more exotic treatments. I think about that sometimes when I realize it's 10:00 PM and I haven't eaten all day because I was deep in prep for the next episode, which is kind of the story of my life since I moved to Austin. Occasionally, I'll be so deep in work that I'll forget to eat. And then I end up demolishing whatever's closest at midnight. Guys, this solution is amazing. It's a game changer for anyone who's busy. Meals show up ready to go. You heat them up in two minutes and they're actually made with real food.

• 3:28Jesse Michels?

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• 4:11Jesse Michels?

  I am so grateful that you're here. This has been a long time coming. I was just saying off set. I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last two or three years, maybe I've followed your work.

• 4:23Jesse Michels?

  It seems like in UFO world, we seem stuck on the existence or non-existence of lights in the sky.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:32Jesse Michels?

  And there's a whole kind of history of research, deep research from very credentialed people, discussing kind of, you know, deeper threads, if you will, around close encounters of the third kind, abductions, implants often being found in these people's bodies. There's a legendary UFO researcher named Dr. Roger Lear, who everybody likes to pay homage to. And I view you as kind of his living heir in many ways.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess that's about right these days. I mean, nobody else has taken up the research. And he taught me everything he knows, he knew. So I would very much like to continue the research when funding becomes available.

• 5:20Jesse Michels?

  It's crazy that funding should be completely available, but this is like the most interesting stuff. So let's just establish for the audience, who is Dr. Roger Lear? He's known as this, you know, sort of alien implant doctor. What's his, what was his background? How did he get into this?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Well, he was a podiatrist and he was always interested in UFOs. He was the most knowledgeable ufologist I've ever met. And he was at a UFO conference once and Darrell Sims tried to get him interested in alien implants. He thought the subject was ridiculous at first. Then he finally said his, one of his friends convinced him to take another look at it. So he said to Darrell, well, you know, get some of these people down here to my office and we'll get them x-rayed and take the object out and see what it is. And so that's how the research started. And he ended up taking out seventeen objects from seventeen different people over

• 6:24Speaker 02

  about a twenty year period.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  We found the object, the first one, and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever removed before in the way of a foreign body. And believe me, I had removed all sorts of things from even a hair to paper to metals of various kinds and so on. Never saw anything like this. It was a T shaped affair that was wrapped in a very tight biological tissue, which was this really strange color and texture. And then we took a scalpel and we wanted to see what was inside. That's the idea of the whole thing. And we were amazed to find that we couldn't cut through this biological tissue.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  It came back with absolutely no inflammatory response. Now that really makes you want to scratch your head because how do you get something into the human body and not have the body react to it? Well, that just doesn't happen. Maybe there's some weirded out explanation that I didn't understand from one site, maybe two sites, but three sites from two different people. That's just a little too much to handle.

• 7:42Jesse Michels?

  And where was he based?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  I found out that Dr. Lear was working in Thousand Oaks when I was working in Camero, California, only a few miles away. And I had some, a weird experience where I saw these giant raccoons in my backyard. And when I was at the house alone one night and I fed the animals and observed them for some time and they were about between seventy-five and a hundred pounds, I'd estimate. I didn't even know raccoons got that big. And evidently there were scout animals for the aliens because I went to bed and woke up about eight o'clock the next morning and had a bad stinging pain in my toe.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  And I had reason to believe it was some kind of an implant. And so I went to see Dr. Lear and I don't think he believed me at first, but he gave me a prescription to get the toe x rayed. And I knew we were going to see something on the x ray, but when I did, that changed my life forever. It looked like a bent piece of wire on the x ray. And um, um, I didn't remember getting any shrapnel in there or anything like that. So it was quite an experience. Then he got funding from Haime Hassan to, uh, to remove it a few months later. And, um, he didn't have anybody to analyze it. So, um, where I was working at the time, I had, I had access to a lot of analytic analytical equipment.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  So, um, I analyzed it for him and it turned out to be a sophisticated nanotechnological device. Uh, have you read my paper on that implant?

• 9:22Jesse Michels?

  I have not. Let's, let's hear about it.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Um, well, it, um, it turned out to have a very skewed isotopic ratios and several elements that were in the metallic core. And, um, to the extent that it looked like it probably came from another part of the galaxy, not just another planet. And, um,

• 9:40Jesse Michels?

  But how, how can you know that from the isotope ratios?

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Well, because, um, the isotope ratios are characteristic, um, of, um, uh, elements from different places. And, um, if, um, they're off by more than a percent or so, um, that means it's from, it's not from, from Earth. Um, these were off by up to like 30%.

• 10:02Jesse Michels?

  What were the elements and what were the isotopes?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Um, uh, the first one, I think it was boron, uh, boron and copper. And, um, uh, there were, there were, um, uh, similar results from other implants I analyzed. And, um, anyway, the, the structure of the device was, um, a gray, hard to cut membrane. And below that, a, um, a, a layer of, uh, material that was similar to bone, uh, like a biological hard part like bone or mother of pearl. Then below that, a, um, metallic core with, um, uh, that was made of meteoric iron with, uh, carbon nanotubes inside the metal.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  And nerve cells connected to the device. The pain in my toe got worse over a period of days and led to a lot of electric shock type pain whenever I put any weight on the toe. And I think that was the nerve cells growing in the device. These devices also produce no physiological reaction in the body. And that's unheard of. Foreign objects always produce a physiological response.

• 11:13Jesse Michels?

  There's no immune response.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  No immune response, right.

• 11:16Jesse Michels?

  Really interesting. And could these elements and isotopes theoretically have been produced in some sort of centrifuge?

• 11:26Speaker 02

  You could, but in order to produce those exact ratios, it would probably cost millions of dollars and be very difficult to do.

• 11:33Jesse Michels?

  So the question is why?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And why would anybody do that?

• 11:36Jesse Michels?

  Why would anybody do that?

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:38Jesse Michels?

  Do you remember undergoing some sort of alien abduction experience prior to that?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  I didn't remember it consciously, but I underwent regressive hypnosis and remembered aliens putting in the device. Yeah.

• 11:52Jesse Michels?

  What was that experience like?

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Well, they, two gray, small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said, come outside. And I put on these steel toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them. And there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard, over this avocado tree I had at the Fillmore house. And they indicated that I should stand below the center of the craft and took me up with a tractor beam. Star Trek got it right, by the way. It's like a blue or greenish beam that lifts things, like a gravity beam.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And the center of the craft, it was about 50 feet in diameter, similar to Lazar's sport model. If you're familiar with that.

• 12:42Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  And the center of the device or craft was an airlock that had human and alien space suits.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Available and there were four doors leading to the to the four quadrants of the craft. Then there was a habitation ring around the outside and a pilot station with two pilots and

• 13:06Speaker 02

  appeared to be thought controlled. They had their hands in a panel and on top of a panel and screens where they were observing different things. And they took me around to the station at 90 degrees of the pilot station and there was a

• 13:28Speaker 02

  couch that slid out of the wall and the indicated this guy indicated me for me to lie down and

• 13:35Speaker 02

  it was a taller gray and he took out a device that looked like a black plastic handle with a piece of quarter inch stainless steel tubing on it and touched it to my toe and pushed a button and that must have put the implant in and

• 13:56Speaker 02

  there were fiber optics going down the the center of this piece of tubing. And I think that's what activates the device, UV light. And I think that's what accounts for these red marks you see on experiencers too. Like they're mini sunburns from UV light.

• 14:13Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. And so how long were you up there for?

• 14:17Speaker 02

  About an hour. They waited for a long time for orders, I think, before actually putting in the device because I think because they knew it'd start an investigation and they weren't sure they wanted that because a bunch of weird stuff had been happening previously and

• 14:32Jesse Michels?

  Where were you living at the time?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Fillmore, California.

• 14:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay, Fillmore. And was this during at night or?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a night. It was a night about three in the morning. They usually come about two or three in the morning.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  And so finally, after about meeting up for about 45 minutes, I go like, guys, you know, I'm tired. If you if you're not going to do anything, then let me go back to bed. And so they they put the device in at that point and that didn't take very long. Once they decided to make up their minds.

• 15:02Jesse Michels?

  Are you communicating telepathically with them?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yes, telepathically.

• 15:05Jesse Michels?

  Okay. Do you see any symbols around the craft?

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, there were some symbols that looked like hieroglyphics. I'm labeling the instruments on the pilot station and on some of the walls. They had a, I believe they had a vector symbol. A blue vector symbol on the wall, a pretty big symbol and it had two dots, circles below it. And their uniforms are usually cobalt blue and have either a snake with a snake over a triangle. Or three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  And I'm led to believe that the three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle is the symbol of the gray alliance. The, the grays are not one species. There are like several, I believe, seven different species of similar aliens that are bound by treaty and come within, come to us from planets within a hundred light years of here.

• 16:14Jesse Michels?

  How are you getting that?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  I believe they told me.

• 16:18Jesse Michels?

  Oh, they told you that? And what else did they tell you?

• 16:23Speaker 02

  A lot of stuff about physics and propulsion, most of which I can't remember consciously.

• 16:29Jesse Michels?

  Do you remember anything about the physics and propulsion?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, yeah. They use a combination of several methods to create antigravity and they definitely have antigravity drives. And they use like three different methods to create antigravity.

• 16:43Jesse Michels?

  Do you remember the methods?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of, one is a home puller generator.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  If you take a disk, the basic home puller generator is a disk, a metallic disk rotating in a perpendicular magnetic field and it creates a voltage between the center and the outside of the disk. And the aliens use a version of that to create most of their lift where they circulate molten metal around the outside of the craft that's magnetic. From analyzing samples of the material that were dropped, I think it's usually a mixture of iron and silicon. The silicon's probably in there lower the melting point. And there's a strong magnetic field between the top and bottom of the craft. That's why the.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  That's why equipment like a car electrical systems goes out when a UFO is near because of the very strong magnetic field. And they also use a method called the Bifield Brown effect to generate lift where you rapidly charge a capacitor and there's a thrust in the direction of the positive pole. And a lot of these things, the entire craft is a capacitor between the top and bottom. The top and bottom of the craft are like plates of a capacitor.

• 18:12Jesse Michels?

  So they told you they used the Bifield Brown effect, these aliens?

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:16Jesse Michels?

  That's really interesting.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  And according to Bob Lazar, then I don't remember him telling me this, but according to Bob Lazar, they also use element 115 sometimes to amplify the gravitational effect.

• 18:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I'm obsessed with Townsend Brown. That gets me excited, the fact that there's some, you know, corroboration from an experiencer that, you know, maybe that that is how the craft actually works. Many institutions and people have tried to either downplay or falsify Brown's experiments. For example, in 1990, the Air Force tested a Bifield Brown experiment in a vacuum, but they only used 19 kilovolts instead of the megavoltage Brown was using. But in 1956, Jacques Corneille, a French Air Force officer and technical representative for one of France's largest aircraft companies, Sued West, facilitated Brown's experiments in a vacuum in the Montgolfier facility in Paris.

• 19:15Jesse Michels?

  The tests were very, very, very tricky. It was sensitive to so, so many things. In fact, finally it worked, so that was a positive result. Did they say anything else? So they're giving you all this insight into the, into the physics?

• 19:33Speaker 02

  They talked about time travel quite a bit and the physics of that.

• 19:37Jesse Michels?

  What did they say?

• 19:38Speaker 02

  They said that, that they have time travel. They don't like to use it very much because, and especially don't like to do long jumps because you could, if you travel back in time too far, you could get on a different timeline and it would be difficult to get back to your own. That's the main reason. There's the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is, is generally correct, except that. Uh, minor decisions. I'm not sure how the universe decides what's a minor decision and what's a major one, but um, minor uh, decisions in quantum mechanics uh, where something happens on a subatomic scale. Um, most of those uh, just collapse on themselves and not become a

• 20:23Speaker 02

  separate timeline, but some do.

• 20:25Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. So this is this idea that the wave function doesn't actually collapse. It's sort of infinitely branches, but you're saying that in certain cases.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  It's a combination. Some, some, most of them collapse, but some of them continue on and become a different timeline.

• 20:38Jesse Michels?

  Makes rough sense. That's interesting.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then the, the, the ones that do continue on are as real as this one.

• 20:43Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  And um, if you go back uh, too far and then try to go forward again, there's a chance you might end up on one of those branch points.

• 20:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Cross one of the branch points and end up on a different timeline.

• 20:56Jesse Michels?

  Did they connect the, you know, quote unquote, anti-gravity with the time travel? Because Bifield Brown effect and Townsend Brown himself was very interested in time travel because of the relationship between gravity and time and general relativity.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Well, the way they move faster than light is that they, they use the anti-gravity drive to open up a wormhole. And um, I'm not sure how they um, they choose where the other opening of the wormhole is, but they, they can do that somehow. And then they'll go through it and uh, go a few million kilometers before the wormhole collapses. Wormholes are unstable. And um, they can do the same thing with time. They just open up a wormhole in a different time, where the, the opening isn't in a different time that they want to visit. And the other reason they don't like to use time travel too much is because um, it's difficult to judge exactly when you're going to come out to the second like they like to do.

• 21:47Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, that seems to be the case. And you have like Travis Walton dropped off near where he was picked up, but not, it's usually not like very precise. And there's like sort of missing time involved. So.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. And Dr. In um, Travis Walton's case, Dr. Lear thinks he were, thought he was dead and they brought him back to life.

• 22:07Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. Why does Roger Lear think that?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Because um.

• 22:12Jesse Michels?

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• 22:57Jesse Michels?

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• 23:40Speaker 02

  Travis was thrown like 20 feet by either a weapon or getting a shock from the electric field around the craft. And he wasn't moving when he was flying through the air or when he landed on the ground. And all the people in his logging crew thought he was dead.

• 23:58Jesse Michels?

  That is definitely true. Did any of these beings tell you why they were doing what they were doing to you? Did they give you any sort of sense as to why they would implant your toe of all places?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  It was a medical monitoring device is my understanding to monitor things like blood sugar and body temperature and things like that.

• 24:19Jesse Michels?

  Why you? Is it just like this thing that it's like if we go to the zoo, we tag the animals sort of thing? Or what do you think?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  It's kind of like that, except that they do this to only bloodlines that they're interested in. And they have an MO where they

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Genetically, they they abduct pregnant women from bloodlines are interested in and genetically modify the fetus.

• 24:44Jesse Michels?

  What determines which bloodlines they might be interested in?

• 24:49Speaker 02

  I'm not sure. That would be a close to yard and secret on their side, but mainly they're interested in in Germanic, Celtic and Native American people. There are exceptions, but they're looking for some sort of genetic combination that those particular races have in more abundance.

• 25:07Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. Fascinating. Okay. So you have this, anything, anything else, by the way, I always, I feel like with experiences, I'm always like, damn, I should have asked that one more thing about like what the, what the being said, was there anything else you can recall?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Um, but, but them telling me.

• 25:25Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Anything they told you?

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Well, the, the part about them, um, uh, being on alliance of seven different races coming from planets within a hundred light years of year. Um, I remember that, uh, pretty distinct. Oh, and they also told me that, um, that the earth is a very important planet to a lot of races and that, um, planets that have some life are pretty common, but, um, planets that are teeming with life like this are not common at all. He said, there's only four or five like it in the galaxy.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  And, um, so they want to preserve, uh, life on the planet and, uh, they are worried we're gonna screw it up.

• 26:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that seems to be a common theme, uh, among experiencers as far as what gets relayed.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Oh, and they told me that there's, there's pyramids all over the galaxy. They're evidently, uh, power sources and sources of healing rather than tombs.

• 26:24Jesse Michels?

  You know, it's funny you say this. I feel like 20 years ago in conventional archaeological circles, they would have said that that's totally quacky. And now you have people like Christopher Dunn, who's, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy. He's like a former aerospace guy.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Heard of him.

• 26:38Jesse Michels?

  Coming out saying, you know, that, uh, it looks like the pyramid is some sort of power plant. And now we actually have synthetic aperture radar scans underneath the pyramids. Where it looks like there might be these sort of coiling columns, these hollow tubes that go down possibly a kilometer deep. So you have increasing speculation. We know that there have never been any tombs found in these structures. And we were just talking earlier that below Dandera, you actually have hieroglyphics that translate to Stargate.

• 27:09Speaker 07

  The Egyptians talk about Stargates.

• 27:11Jesse Michels?

  Do they?

• 27:11Speaker 07

  Do. Go to, uh, where is it? Dandera. There's actually a couple of places. The literal translation, you can read it on the walls. I always show people when we go there. It is, there are two or three depictions of Stargates. That is the literal translation for it.

• 27:27Jesse Michels?

  We know there are actually little chambers where a human could probably lie in and, you know, some of these, I think in the Great Pyramid.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sarcophagus, they called it in the Queen's Chamber is probably a healing device.

• 27:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  I have a theory where gravity is not a pulling force, but a pushing force. It's, um, if you're accelerating through space, you experience inertia. If space is accelerating towards you, you experience gravity. And, um, uh, zero point energy is turned into real energy in the cores of planets and stars. And that creates a partial vacuum in the ether that, um, that causes the ether to accelerate towards that gravitating body. And, um, that creates gravity.

• 28:15Jesse Michels?

  So you, I mean, this is, there are so many different threads I want to, yeah. It's like the, um, you know, the, the movie Stargate, literally with Kurt Russell. You know, the air force actually consulted on that. And it's like, it's this portal or something. And then it would explain the astronomical alignment, the idea that all the ancient civilizations thought that the souls actually, the soul moved through Orion's Belt, which it seems, you know, aligned with. But there are some interesting questions I feel like I have to press on that arise from what you just said. The ether, you know, they say was disproved in the 1890s with the Michelson-Morley experiment.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  It wasn't, it wasn't disproved. Even Einstein said in his later lectures that, um, there could be an ether, although it would have to be multi-dimensional and have, uh, strange properties as well. And that's, that's, that's, that's the case. I mean, the ether, um, I believe they told me this too, but other people have come up with this theory that, um, that, uh, the ether is composed of tiny particles that are,

• 29:15Speaker 02

  On the order of the Planck mass and the Planck dimensions, they're like 10 to the 20th time smaller than an atomic nucleus and they have a magnetic and electric dipole moment and interact with each other much more strongly than they interact with ordinary matter. And matter going through it without accelerating does not experience a force because it acts like a superfluid, but when it's accelerating, there's an electromagnetic drag force that they call the people that believe in this theory called the Rindler flux, which causes inertia. And you can actually derive Newton's second law by assuming a spatial structure of that

• 30:00Speaker 02

  nature.

• 30:01Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:03Jesse Michels?

  Who's like developed this theory?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I, several physicists, I don't recall their names offhand, but I can look it up for you.

• 30:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, no, you're right that later Einstein said general relativity is not actually incompatible with the ether.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:22Jesse Michels?

  So that is an important, and then I would also say about the Michelson-Morley experiment, you know, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Jesse Michels?

  And so we just don't know, you know, but I do think, yeah, that's this kind of hotly debated contested thing. So it's a very interesting theory, but.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  In the Michelson-Morley experiment, the ether is probably being dragged by the instrument itself and that might account for the results of no observable ether movement. But there was another guy named Millikan, I believe his name was, that actually did come up with some positive results for ether, motion through the ether.

• 30:57Jesse Michels?

  That's interesting. I didn't know that about Robert Millikan was at Caltech and Townsend Brown actually studied under him and then they kind of got into it because Millikan didn't really believe in Brown's stuff. Ironically, Brown believed what you said, which is that gravity is more of a push than a pull. And so you're saying, because Millikan did a lot of the experimental proving of Einstein's photoelectric effect from 1905.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:22Jesse Michels?

  But I didn't know that he had something to do with the ether and detecting the ether. That's fascinating.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he said he detected it and he was a pretty high powered physicist.

• 31:31Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:33Jesse Michels?

  Oh, wow.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  He didn't detect it directly, but he detected um Earth's motion through the ether by an experiment on Mount Wilson, I believe it was.

• 31:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow, fascinating. Well, I'll have to look into that. Um, you know, it's it's interesting. We we take so many things for granted that we've never detected like dark matter. And but the ether is like completely like we're not allowed to talk about. It's like a dirty word or something.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't I don't think I believe in dark matter. After fifty years of experimentation, there's no evidence for it at all. So and you don't. You don't really even need dark matter to explain the results. The reason they they postulated dark matter in the first place is because um. The of the motion of the galaxies, um they they behave as though um there's uh either either gravity is acting as uh an inverse linear force at those distances. Or um there's um uh a halo of uh massive um matter above and below the galaxy. Well.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  The um uh postulating that gravity is inverse linear force at those distances is actually a simpler explanation than postulating some unknown form of matter.

• 32:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I think you're right because dark I would bet against dark matter and dark energy. The dark energy is not one of the four fundamental forces. It's this sort of, you know, just.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  I think dark energy is a zero point energy. That's what's causing the Earth or the universe to expand uh more rapidly. Rather than it's supposed to be slowing down according to Einstein, but uh dark energy AKA um. Uh zero point energy is causing the expansion to accelerate.

• 33:04Jesse Michels?

  It's fascinating. Quantum vacuum fluctuations.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I mean, okay, we could have a whole other discussion on physics. I want to stick with this. So you you experienced this kind of profound thing. You end up with this, you know, um implant in your toe. So you don't know what's happened at that point because you haven't gotten a hypnotic regression. Is that point?

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't I didn't know. I didn't remember what happened. I just I woke up and I knew that I had had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night. And I had uh one and one more on the side of my head too.

• 33:37Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  My my my head kind of hurt right there.

• 33:40Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  And that shows up in a stud finder.

• 33:43Jesse Michels?

  Okay, wow. And then you get in touch with Roger Lear?

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:47Jesse Michels?

  And you email him?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Um, I just went to his office.

• 33:51Jesse Michels?

  Okay, he just showed up?

• 33:52Speaker 02

  I just made an appointment and then went over there and, and um, told him I had a possible foreign object in my toe and in the middle of the appointment, I uh, told him that uh, it was a uh, it was a possible alien implant or an abduction related. No, excuse me. I don't think he believed me at, at first, but um, uh, he gave me a prescription to get an x-ray and um, I, he, he said to give a copy of the film of the patient and I definitely saw something on the x-ray and that was wild.

• 34:27Jesse Michels?

  That is extremely wild. What did it look like?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Well, I could tell people too that there's a heck of a difference between uh, strongly suspecting that something like this is going on with you, which I had for years, and knowing for sure. And proof like that, you know, for sure.

• 34:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Um, but it looked like, it looked like a piece of, uh, bent piece of wire on, on the x-ray and it was um, it was uh, larger uh, in real life and we took it out than it looked on the x-ray.

• 34:56Jesse Michels?

  Wild. Okay, so you see this x-ray and then do you have a hypnotic regression and you remember the full experience with these alien beings?

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

• 35:06Jesse Michels?

  And is Roger Lear at that point kind of bought into the extraterrestrial or, or other entity, non-human hypothesis?

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, yeah, he was, he was excited. Um, he wanted to come over and check out my house and we found all kinds of anomalies, uh, anomalous magnetic fields, um, leaves and the uh, the trunk of the avocado tree had become magnetized, um, and uh, in the kitchen, uh, stainless steel knives had become magnetized and the wood of the cabinets and all kinds of stuff. Wood seems to be very susceptible to magnetization by alien equipment.

• 35:39Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  I think it's

• 35:40Jesse Michels?

  Cause normally it wouldn't be a

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  It's either a magnetic monopole or magnetic fields beyond a certain strength leave a residue.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Uh, magnetic monopoles make a certain amount of sense. It would be a, um, it would be ether that had a magnetic charge to it that would be absorbed into the material and it seems to uh, decay away over a period of several weeks.

• 36:01Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. And how many uh, implants did Roger Lear remove?

• 36:06Speaker 02

  He removed a total of, I believe, seventeen from uh, seventeen different people.

• 36:10Jesse Michels?

  Wow. And how many have you removed?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Um, I, I haven't removed any. I don't have a license to, to operate on.

• 36:16Jesse Michels?

  Okay. But you sort of look into this.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  I, I attended, I attended the last three removal surgeries, including my own.

• 36:22Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:23Jesse Michels?

  And how many have you seen? Like firsthand?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  I've seen probably six or seven.

• 36:28Jesse Michels?

  Wow. And uh, does any of, part of you or does any part of, you know, from your conversations with Roger Lear, think that this could have been human tech?

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Um, no. Uh, most of them did not like, look like human tech at all to us. And there was reason to believe that, that uh, the materials came from uh, not only from space, but from other part of our galaxy. But um, we did find, or he did find one or two that looked like human tech that looked like just standard microchips.

• 36:59Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. And so, so such a crazy territory to kind of operate in or think about. So you think there are maybe a couple that represent, I mean, what would those microchips have come from?

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Well, the government's experimenting with implants too, but they're, they're much less sophisticated than the ones the aliens use.

• 37:17Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  And they're much bigger.

• 37:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And, and that would make sense. I mean, they, I mean, yeah, the government has had like sort of mind control programs.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:25Jesse Michels?

  You know, MK Ultra sort of stuff.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:27Jesse Michels?

  And they probably have, have used chips. And so.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:31Jesse Michels?

  But these things are, they have, so they have isotope ratios that don't normally occur on earth that would cost millions of dollars to create in a centrifuge.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:39Jesse Michels?

  Um, any other sort of abnormalities or anomalies?

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Well, I, I noticed that uh, in, in three of the implants that um, had the isotope abnormalities, the, the heavier isotopes in those elements were overrepresented.

• 37:54Speaker 07

  I, I talked to people who really did analyze the stuff from the real deal stuff and it's super weird. It's like heavy element. Um, you know, Europium, Californium, stuff. It's like in these atomic arrangements that make like no sense. You know, this is through X-ray diffraction where they can image the shadows of the atomic pairs and stuff. And it's like, why is all these crazy heavy elements in this like weird ceramic metal hull structure and it doesn't, we don't understand the emergent metamaterial property.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  So it was either, it's either, either they come from closer to the center of the galaxy where there's a heavier supernova. And all these heavy elements are created in supernova explosions where there's a massive cascade of neutrons in one part of the explosion. Um, and rapid neutron capture creates these uh, elements heavier than iron. And um, uh, it's, so it's either, either that or the elements had been exposed to a massive quantity of uh, of neutrons. Um, either way, it's very, uh, very strange and most likely um, way beyond human technology.

• 39:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And a lot of neutrons would be outside the Van Allen radiation belt or something, you know, you have a lot of.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Or in a, in a reactor or as airplane energy uh, uh, uh, energy generator.

• 39:14Jesse Michels?

  Also the, the, the no immune reaction. It's like, you think of Elon Musk as the tip of the spear with technology. And you know, he had all these issues with the, you know, electrode implants in people's brains where there would be immune reactions. Even to this day, I believe Nolan Arba, the first patient, I think might need some like tweaking after like the first thing worked because of this sort of immune reaction issue.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. Uh, Dr. Lee told me that um, um, any foreign object in the body produces an immune reaction. Silicone produces the least immune reaction of all substances known, but even that produces a, a fair amount. As a lot of women that got silicone breast implants could testify. But uh, these produce none whatsoever. It's just very beyond strange.

• 40:03Jesse Michels?

  Do you notice commonalities in behavioral patterns changing from some of these patients?

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Um, it's hard. I, I think there are some changes, but it's, they're hard to, to notice. I know that when I had uh, my toe implant, it was like.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Very subtle, but it was like, uh, there was some sort of a, of a governor put in my thoughts or I, and I felt more free once it was removed. It's, it's, but it was very subtle.

• 40:32Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  And, um, people were telling me that I, I didn't look well and I had a gray complexion or something when I had the implant.

• 40:39Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:40Jesse Michels?

  So it affected you in sort of a negative way?

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Apparently, yeah.

• 40:44Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think, ah, it's so strange. I, ideally, you know, the alien tech or whatever would, you know, be so, so, you know, if it's not creating an immune reaction, it wouldn't, you know, suppress your thoughts in any sort of negative way.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Oh, maybe, maybe, maybe what they told me about it being a monitoring device was just a cover story. Maybe they were trying to produce some changes or something.

• 41:02Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. It's fascinating.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  But, um, they, um, um, they definitely, um, were hesitant to put it in because they knew it'd start an investigation. And, uh, I, I suspected that I was an experiencer for a year that had missing time experiences and had, uh, no other way to account for them. But, um, it's kind of easier to be, easy to be in denial if you don't have any real concrete proof.

• 41:28Jesse Michels?

  So wild conversation for me because you seem like a very smart guy. And then a lot of these things are just so, so out there. Do you, did, um?

• 41:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I wouldn't even entertain, I'm a scientist. I wouldn't even entertain a lot of this stuff if I didn't have proof.

• 41:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, uh, you, you're, you're backing up all your claims. So it's, it's really amazing. Um, Dr. Roger Leird, did you find him to be, you know, fully kind of bought into the kind of non-human hypothesis as the origin?

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He was fully, uh, fully bought into the, um, uh, extraterrestrial hypothesis.

• 42:00Jesse Michels?

  And he says, is it 17 or 18 implants that he removed?

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Seventeen, I believe, yeah.

• 42:05Jesse Michels?

  Seventeen. And, um, and he had no background in this. He was just a podiatrist and?

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. He thought it was ridiculous at first too, but, um.

• 42:15Jesse Michels?

  Did he stumble upon a, like, there was one of his patients or something and he pulled it out?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  He went to, he went to, um, a, a convention, I think the UFO Congress and, um, he met, uh, Daryl Sims there, who was, um, the original guy on the implants. And, um, uh, he tried to convince. Dr. Lear that it was worth looking into and Dr. Lear said, ah, you're full of, you're full of it and everything. And a friend, another friend of Dr. Lear's convinced him to go take another look and he, he went back and told Sims that, that, um, you know, if you can get some patients out here that have these things, um, I'll x-ray them and take the object out if it's there and we'll find out what it is.

• 42:54Jesse Michels?

  Did Lear ever try to write an academic paper on any of this stuff?

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, he and I tried to write a paper and we tried to publish it in the journal Scientific Exploration and, um, they, um, first they, first they said they were excited to have it. Then I think somebody got to them and they said that, um, it was ridiculous. They didn't want to publish it and, um, we weren't even saying it was alien. We just said it was an unknown object recovered from,

• 43:17Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  from somebody's, uh, somebody's leg and, um, um, they, um, they really, uh, gave us a hard time about it and, um, I, I'm, I'm pretty sure that somebody told him not to publish it.

• 43:30Jesse Michels?

  That's so crazy. It's like, yeah, cause it's funny. You, you can go on chat GPT and they say Roger Lear has no academically, you know, peer reviewed papers or whatever. It's like you tried.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, we, we did try.

• 43:41Jesse Michels?

  And it's, it's funny. I think you always have to sanitize the results and just say, no, we found something anomalous. Like we don't, we don't, we're not even jumping to conclusions, but even then sometimes there's this sort of antibody rejection of a lot of these findings. There's a, a friend of mine, Beatrice Vioreal. She's a, an astronomer, um, from Stockholm University. And she's, yeah, PhD out there and she, uh, basically from the, the Palomar Observatory, uh, which was, you know, one of the most prominent, uh, you know, observatories in use in the, in the forties and fifties. She noticed all sorts of, uh, these, what look like essentially UFO like objects.

• 44:23Jesse Michels?

  These, these light reflecting objects that look like kind of mirrors.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  In orbit.

• 44:28Jesse Michels?

  In orbit.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:29Jesse Michels?

  In geo.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they, they recruited Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto to investigate those too.

• 44:35Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating. So there's a history of looking into these geosynchronous objects that seem to exist in the tens of thousands.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  And he wrote, he wrote an article, Tom Barr wrote an article saying that Earth had some smaller moons orbiting at about 500 miles up. And I know from my own experiences that gray motherships orbited about that altitude. And they launched the smaller UFOs that actually go out and sortied, abduct people and such.

• 45:06Jesse Michels?

  So fascinating because the other, the other thing is, you know, I go back and forth on the moon landing stuff where if I'm, if I'm debating with a skeptic on the moon landing, it's like, I'm, I'm extremely open to us having actually landed on the moon. But there's something's off about the whole story. Something is off.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Well, they're, they're concealing a lot. There's a lot up there. They don't want people to see.

• 45:29Jesse Michels?

  With that, so it's like, maybe they saw something along the way, you know?

• 45:33Speaker 02

  And there's, interesting that you should mention the moon stuff. I found out that Apollo 13 may not have failed by a mechanical problem, may have been zapped by the aliens. Cause they, they may have had a nuclear warhead on board.

• 45:47Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:48Jesse Michels?

  How did you find that out?

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, I can't prove it, but it was the next logical step in their seismic program where

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Apollo 11 put a seismic graph on the moon and so did Apollo 12.

• 46:01Jesse Michels?

  And it rang like a bell.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  On Apollo 12, they crashed the second stage of lunar module into the moon and it rang like a bell for hours. Then on Apollo 13, when they were approaching the moon, they, they crashed the third stage of the Saturn V into the moon and made a bigger bang and it rang like a bell for a lot, even longer. And so if Apollo 13 had landed on the moon, they would have had three seismic graphs and would have been able to probably map the interior of the moon a little bit.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  With the seismic waves that would be generated by another event. And the, the next logical step would have been to put a remote detonated, small nuclear device on the moon and detonated after the astronauts leave.

• 46:44Jesse Michels?

  Jesus. So, but you're, you're just hypothesizing that. You have no evidence.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I have, I have no real evidence, but one thing that made me really suspicious that this might be true is that I remember when I was a kid following this mission and when the lunar module was coming back to earth, the.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Atomic, the Atomic Energy Commission was just going ape over this. And they wanted the lunar module put on a trajectory that would put it into a deep ocean trench. And their level of concern was, they said it was because of that radio isotope thermal electric generator onboard, but their, their level of concern was a lot more consistent with it being a warhead.

• 47:22Jesse Michels?

  Whoa, that's fascinating. So they were that freaked out?

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, even though it might endanger the astronauts' lives to do that, they wanted that thing crashed into a deep ocean trench. They've had RTGs on spacecraft before that have re-entered that they weren't that concerned about.

• 47:40Jesse Michels?

  It's really interesting. Yeah, it's funny. You know, there's actually an Air Force project that's documented called Project A119. And it was literally to nuke the moon as a show of force against the Soviets. And Carl Sagan actually had a temporary clearance.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 47:55Jesse Michels?

  To look, to look into doing this. So we know that in the late 50s, obviously before the Saturn and Apollo projects, that this was being considered. So who knows? I mean, you might be right, man. It's really interesting.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Well, I know that, I know that if, if there were no aliens on the moon or anything else like that to worry about, I think, I think the Greys own the moon, by the way, and they told us not to come back without permission anyway. And that's.

• 48:19Jesse Michels?

  You think they said, don't come back without permission?

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Well, Armstrong, Armstrong was overheard at a party saying that.

• 48:25Jesse Michels?

  Really? What party?

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Some party in Washington DC with bigwigs and several people said that he said that, but.

• 48:32Jesse Michels?

  And he said that the Greys said.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  That's hearsay, but.

• 48:34Jesse Michels?

  The Greys said, don't come back until we give you permission.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Something to that effect.

• 48:39Jesse Michels?

  Any other details there?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Well, some people at NASA, some whistleblowers at NASA said that, that he was on a private channel after landing on the moon. And said that, that spacecraft landed on the moon right after they did a few mile, a couple of miles away and were watching him. And. It was probably the same one that they said they saw following them. Uh, the, the whole Apollo eleven crew, um, said a few years ago on, on television that, um, that there was some object following them to the moon. That they thought it was the third stage of their, of their booster at first, but NASA confirmed that it, that, that the booster was like 700 miles away. And this, this object was maybe only about five or 10 miles from them.

• 49:29Jesse Michels?

  Jesus Christ. And you have, you definitely have documented audio from the Gemini missions of them free. And then there's a literally like they're freaking out about, um, UFOs. There's an outage, you know, showing some sort of electromagnetic anomaly present. And then in the, they have this, um, book, actually the Simpkinson, uh, textbook that shout out to my buddy, Chris Ramsey from the great show, Area 52. He, uh, made me aware of this book where this UFO is like airbrushed into the photo for the Gemini 11 mission. Where it's this like kind of tongue in cheek joke. If you're, you know, this is official NASA archivist airbrushed this UFO, which looks like the best UFO photo ever.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Well, the astronauts used to admit to it, uh, long ago before the security was that tight and, um,

• 50:16Speaker 02

  and, um, I think they were seeing these things, uh, almost every mission in the early days.

• 50:22Jesse Michels?

  So wild. How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them?

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Well, the people that they implant, uh, they, they've, they've abducted about 3% of the, uh, American population, uh, according to Dr. Lear. I think that's about right. It's probably between three and 5% to take samples.

• 50:39Jesse Michels?

  What is he basing that off of? Is this like sort of a census style, like extrapolation?

• 50:45Speaker 02

  His own research and extrapolation.

• 50:46Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  And, um, uh, based on what I have seen, um, most, uh, most, what I call class two experiencers that are actually at, at the next level, part of the alien program, um, have implants, but the, the first class where they just take samples from do not generally. And, um, About, I would say very roughly about one in a thousand people are class two experiencers in this, in this country and it's might be similar worldwide, I'm not sure. So if that's the case, then say there's 350 million people in the, in the US, that'd be about 350,000 people.

• 51:27Jesse Michels?

  It's a lot of people walking around with implants. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's like 10, 10 to 15 million for experiencers overall and then class two experiencers who get the implants around a few hundred thousand.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  And it's a standard procedure for, for them to put a brain implant into class two experiencer that enables them to access your sensory information to see what you're seeing and hear what you're hearing and probably hear what you're thinking in real time.

• 51:52Jesse Michels?

  So you're like in, almost an avatar or something like there, you're this perceptual like drone for them or something?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  It turns you into a walking bug and it connects you to the great hive mind. They told me that too. And all, all individuals in their society are connected to a hive mind, kind of like the Borg on Star Trek, but they have a little bit more individuality than that. And every experience they have is recorded and they, so if, if all these people are implanted, then they presumably only put the brain implants into people that they can get some good information from. So being that that's the case, they probably know everything that's going on in this society.

• 52:38Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. We have Eric Mitchell here, who we did an amazing show with yesterday and he's, you know, what you might call kind of a super experiencer. You guys are friends. You've found a few different implants in Eric, is that, is that right?

• 52:54Speaker 02

  I don't remember what the results were offhand. My records got stolen recently, but I'd like to do the exam again. But yeah, I saw some indications of implants in Eric and we found some dyes on him recently, alien dyes. We haven't talked about that yet.

• 53:10Jesse Michels?

  So before we get to the dies, the implants, what are, what are we calling indicators of implants?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Um, well, I have a protocol that, um, uh, it's, uh, mostly Dr. Lear's protocol that he, that he turned me on to. And, um, you, um, first, uh, inspect, uh, the patient with a, um, a stud finder, a small metal detector that detects conductive objects into the skin and concentrate on any, any areas of concern first. Um, where they think they might have an implant from anything they remember, um, or any symptoms they might've had. And, um, um, if, if you record the areas where you get stud finder hits, then you go over, uh, uh, the person with, um, a gauss meter, uh, uh, sensitive, uh, magnetometer. And if you get, um, if you get, uh, an area that has, uh, a stud finder and a gauss meter hit,

• 54:03Speaker 02

  um, that's almost certainly an implant. Cause these, these implants, uh, almost always have magnetic fields.

• 54:09Jesse Michels?

  So have you had a stud finder and, uh, magnetometer, you know, this gauss finder, uh, hit for Eric?

• 54:17Speaker 02

  I think we had, I think we had two, if I recall.

• 54:20Jesse Michels?

  Eric, do you remember where exactly they detected one of these implants?

• 54:25Speaker 06

  Uh, back to my neck, um, my arm and Dr. Lear, uh, he thought maybe there might, might be one in my knee. It was like a weak signal. So he sends me a hundred pound Neo, give me a magnet, which, uh, I should've been very careful opening that box a little more carefully. Like, uh, you know, it was like a cartoon. It was probably dangerous. Yeah, it was dangerous. Uh, but he wanted me to, um, hold it to my knee. Maybe 10 minutes a day, you know, watching TV or something like that. Put it back in the bubble wrap, make sure it's safe and then pull it back out the next night and keep doing that. And he didn't think that it would pull, uh, it to the surface.

• 55:08Speaker 06

  He, he theorized that it would create like an eddy bubble, an eddy effect to kind of loosen it from the tissue and bring it, you know, to the surface, which actually worked.

• 55:18Jesse Michels?

  And so do you have any, uh, like incisions or marks or like, you know, any sort of raised skin where either of these implants are?

• 55:26Speaker 06

  No.

• 55:26Jesse Michels?

  Okay. Have you removed anything?

• 55:28Speaker 06

  No. Okay. No. Two weeks before I was supposed to meet with Dr. Roger there, uh, in, um, uh, Eureka Springs, Arkansas, he unfortunately passed away.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, the the portals of entry with these implants heal incredibly fast. Mine healed within hours. So whoa, you yeah, you're not going to find anything like that.

• 55:53Jesse Michels?

  How many implants do you have like photo evidence of?

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Um, six or seven, I think.

• 56:01Jesse Michels?

  Could you send some of those over? It'd be cool to show them to the audience in post-production.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah.

• 56:06Jesse Michels?

  Sweet. Thank you.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  And, um, yeah.

• 56:11Jesse Michels?

  So what are you working on now? What is, what is, is it Neutron Nano Star Tech?

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a company called Neutron Star Technologies and Neutron Star Nano Technologies is a spin off of that. And I've been just trying to get that funded and utilize some of the carbon nanotube knowledge I have to maybe produce some products. And I've been doing scans on experiencers.

• 56:40Jesse Michels?

  Cool.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  And I've done probably 400 scans on on people and.

• 56:45Jesse Michels?

  So of those 400 scans, how many produce a hit?

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Um, well, it's a pre-selected audience, so probably about half.

• 56:55Jesse Michels?

  About half. Wild. Interesting. And at this point, are you sort of, you're known as like, you know, Roger Lear's, you know, living apprentice? And so people hit you up.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:06Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Okay. So fascinating. What, what, how old were you when you had your experience?

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Uh, I remember having experience at age five where I think that's when they put the brain implant in where I remember waking up before dawn and seeing a bright yellow lit up UFO, disshaped UFO hovering over my parents' house. And then I watched it for a couple of minutes and blacked out, then woke up about eight o'clock in the morning and the sun was up. And I had blood all down the front of me and had a vague memory of somebody putting something up my nose.

• 57:52Jesse Michels?

  Jesus. And this was, so this is age five. This is well before the toe experience.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:57Jesse Michels?

  And where are you living at the time?

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Oxnard, California.

• 58:00Jesse Michels?

  Okay. What did your parents do?

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Um, not much. They just slowly had a nosebleed and.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 58:09Jesse Michels?

  Wow. I mean, what did they do professionally?

• 58:11Speaker 02

  My dad was a dentist and was a Colonel in the Army Reserve and my mother was assistant at one point and bookkeeper at one point and was a housewife the rest of the time.

• 58:26Jesse Michels?

  And they did. Did they freak out when they saw you with blood running down? Or what was their reaction?

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Not really. I mean,

• 58:34Speaker 02

  my parents were

• 58:37Speaker 02

  not the type that freaked out about that sort of thing.

• 58:40Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  And that might be

• 58:44Speaker 02

  because of alien conditioning. I would.

• 58:47Jesse Michels?

  Did they have their own experiences?

• 58:49Speaker 02

  My father admitted much later that he had, he'd had dreams of being on board a UFO and he said, he said he saw a UFO one time over Central California.

• 59:00Jesse Michels?

  Wild.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Cylinder cold UFO with a red light on the front, he said.

• 59:05Jesse Michels?

  As a, as a Colonel in the reserves, did he have any sort of affiliation with any possible reverse engineering programs or like deeper spookier?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't, I don't think so, but I think there's a lot he, he was reluctant to tell me. And he said he did call the military, the nearest military airfield to where he had the sighting and reported it.

• 59:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. It's fascinating. And so, okay, so wow. So you're five years old, you see this bright object. Do you remember vividly being on that craft? No, you don't. Okay. So you just wake up.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  I think they came down into my room to put it in that time.

• 59:46Jesse Michels?

  And you had, and you, where's the implant? It's, it's, was it?

• 59:49Speaker 02

  It's in the brain.

• 59:50Jesse Michels?

  It's in the brain.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  The frontal lobes of the brain.

• 59:52Jesse Michels?

  And do you still have it there?

• 59:54Speaker 02

  I'm sure I do.

• 59:55Jesse Michels?

  Wild.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  And I've got one above each ear, apparently. I wasn't sure about those. I saw them on X-ray barely, but they're really, really small.

• 1:00:05Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  But they started giving off, they started giving off radio signals during a Japanese TV show I was, I was filming.

• 1:00:12Jesse Michels?

  Oh my God. What were you doing?

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  I know they're there now.

• 1:00:14Jesse Michels?

  What were you doing on Japanese TV?

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  They wanted to interview somebody with implants.

• 1:00:19Jesse Michels?

  Wow. And you, you're five years old and you have blood all over and gee, that's traumatic, man. That's like a tough, crazy thing to go through.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Well, this experience is pretty traumatic for a lot of people.

• 1:00:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  It's like there's certain advantages to it. Um, uh, you get to fly in space. I mean, a lot of these abductions are take place on gray motherships in orbit.

• 1:00:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Um, and I remember, I remember seeing the earth from space, uh, being up there and, um, but, um, you just have to take the, the bad with the good. I mean, I hate to tell people, um, this, but these people are way too powerful to fight.

• 1:01:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  And they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything you want, and then they want you to do willingly.

• 1:01:07Jesse Michels?

  Of the, I don't even know how to answer to, to, to talk about that. In the, in the 200 out of the 400 that you personally found implants in, um, do these people have usually UFO experiences associated with the implants or in certain cases are, is it like people coming into their rooms sort of thing?

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Uh, they usually remember, um, seeing UFOs and or remember being on, on board UFOs, but, um, it's both. I mean, sometimes they come into your room and, uh, do whatever they need to do. And other times, um, they come and get you and take you up, up the orbit. And if they want to do anything special or whatever.

• 1:01:50Jesse Michels?

  Do you think at any point in time, some of the mind control stuff we discussed earlier, uh, was like aliens were used as sort of some sort of smokescreen for that? Like it was like, uh, there's a book called, uh, controllers by a guy named Martin Cannon. And he talks about MK Ultra, but then the air MK often and how there are implants involved in some of these things and how they would shade people's experiences to make them think that they were alien. And to be honest, it's kind of a slim, poorly researched book that doesn't. For me, explain everything neatly at all. But uh, yeah, what's your, what's your take?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  I think that that may occur. I think that MKUltra might, might do that sometimes, but I think that the vast majority of the experiences people have are more or less what happened and really are aliens. I have no doubt in my mind that the aliens are here and they exist and there's more than one species involved.

• 1:02:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I mean, there's so many cases that I also encounter where I'm like, you just can't explain that with, with, you know, human prosaic tech. I do find it interesting. You were at, you were at UCLA in the eighties. You know, who was head of the UCLA psychiatry department at that time? Are you aware?

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  I probably was, but.

• 1:03:09Jesse Michels?

  It's got him Jolly West. Did you ever interact with him at all?

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:03:13Jesse Michels?

  He was like a head honcho in the MKUltra stuff.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not surprised. I did used to work at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute. I was a researcher for about five years.

• 1:03:24Jesse Michels?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  He probably had authority over that, that branch, I bet.

• 1:03:28Jesse Michels?

  He might have. Yeah, I don't know, but definitely a spooky, not great guy.

• 1:03:34Jesse Michels?

  I think he got in trouble for like dosing up an elephant with ridiculous amount of LSD and then the elephant died. And he's on record, there are letters between him and Sidney Gottlieb and he, there's a great book called Chaos by a guy named Tom O'Neill, who's become a friend of mine. And he basically has this hypothesis that Charles Manson was this MKUltra patient. And it's a really crazy.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  He may have been. I think, I think that, that that guy that shot

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  John Lennon was.

• 1:04:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, MK, yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  MKUltra guy. And I think, I think Sirion, Sirion that shot Robert Kennedy was too.

• 1:04:13Jesse Michels?

  I think so as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that's this, it's a weird threat. But yeah, so there's that stuff and then. The, do you think, what do you think these, the implants are doing when it comes to the alien? You think it's just, it's just tagging, it's biometrics and, and then maybe there's some mind control stuff going on, perceptual hacking?

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  I don't know, I don't know all the details of what they do.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  They keep that, the aliens keep that mostly secret, but I think some of them are medical monitoring devices, some of them are tracking devices. And some are, the brain implants actually enable them to hear and see what you're hearing and seeing in real time.

• 1:04:57Jesse Michels?

  Does any of the structure that you've investigated kind of allow you to see what the functionality might be? Like, cause you're, you're looking into, you know, nanotechnology. So presumably this would use nanotechnology.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  They do, yeah. They're sophisticated nanotechnological devices. Most of them have carbon nanotube electronics built into the metal and that's beyond our technology. And there's strange structures, I can show you some of the electron micrographs.

• 1:05:29Jesse Michels?

  Please.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  And there's very strange structures that would be beyond our technology to form right now. I'm not sure what they do, but I suspect that it has something to do with emitting the radio signals.

• 1:05:42Jesse Michels?

  Of a lot of these people you encounter, is it usually grays? Is it sometimes nordics or reptilians or some of these other sort of archetypes?

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  I remember seeing mostly different types of grays onboard, onboard the craft, the real short worker type grays and the ones about four and a half feet tall that I call the scientist engineer types. And I have a handler that's one of those. And I think most, most class two experiences have a handler.

• 1:06:12Jesse Michels?

  What do you, when you say handler, what does that mean?

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  A contact person that, that is in charge of your case onboard ship.

• 1:06:19Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. So a being?

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, being, yeah.

• 1:06:23Jesse Michels?

  And how do you, like, are you still telepathically in touch with that handler or something or?

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  I have reason to believe I am, yeah. I think he's hearing, hearing this whole conversation right now.

• 1:06:34Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. What's up handler?

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  And they record everything that is experienced by every member of their society and that includes class two experiencers. When you get the brain implant, it connects you to the gray hide of mine, like I said.

• 1:06:50Jesse Michels?

  This is wild. Does it? Does any part of you think that humans discovered? You know, there's this, I think in the early 2000s, there was this concern of the like runaway gray goo nano tech, you know, scenarios and nanotech was all the rage in the early 2000s. And then it's sort of like went away. And does any part of you think that humans can do any of this stuff like in deep black contexts?

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  I think that that nanotechnology is not that dangerous as long as you don't design some, uh, some microprobe that's self replicating. And but, um,

• 1:07:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that was the gray goo scenario.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Even if, even if you did, I'm not sure it would be all that dangerous, but, um, I think what is dangerous is AI. If they ever do develop true self-aware AI, that would be extraordinarily dangerous.

• 1:07:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, seems like.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  The aliens don't believe in it. So I think that's why.

• 1:07:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  They believe in computers, but they, they're controlled by, um, by minds.

• 1:07:48Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there are good and bad factions of aliens? Or do you think they're all good or all bad or?

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  No, I think there's good and bad factions.

• 1:07:58Jesse Michels?

  The beings that implanted you think good or bad or?

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Hmm. They're mainly out for themselves, um, but they're not all, they're not scum sucking evil either. I mean, they, they, they want, um, humanity to mature into a peaceful, more peaceful species and become members of the Galactic Federation or whatever you want to call it. And but they're mostly here to, um, mine the earth and the moon and collect biological samples.

• 1:08:24Jesse Michels?

  I mean, that, that seems reasonable and not, not bad. Um, what do you think of modern?

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  But they don't, they don't care about the suffering they inflict on people. That's, that's one bad thing about them. That they have, everything is for the group with them. They're, they're a collective mind. They don't care about individuals. They just care about what's best for the group.

• 1:08:47Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think they care so much about nuclear? They seem to show up. Some of my favorite interviews have been these guys that are often in their seventies and eighties at this point. They've worked at nuclear bases all over the US. And in certain cases, they board crafts, they have implants, you know, they're close encounters of the third kind. And I guess what you're calling kind of type two, you know, abductions or something.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, yeah, I think a lot of, a lot of, a lot of top military people are implanted. And to keep the aliens keep tabs on them, but I think they don't want us having nukes because A, it makes us too powerful, B, it has the great potential to screw up the planet, screw up a lot of their, their plans for this place, and C, it can damage the planet's life force. I reasonably, there's structures in the ether that contribute to life on this planet somehow, and a nuclear blast could disrupt that, at least in the general area where it was detonated. And they, they said also that it, it screws up their communications

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  and leads to problems in other dimensions that they didn't want to go into.

• 1:09:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. No, that, that is interesting about like, they seem to show up at nuclear disaster. Like, there's this, literally, literally this monk at this Shinto temple in Fukushima. And when they had their 2011 famous nuclear spill due to the earthquake, he was like, the UFO showed up and cleaned up the temple.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were trying to alleviate the radiation.

• 1:10:15Jesse Michels?

  Exactly.

• 1:10:22Jesse Michels?

  There's a Harvard PhD named Jensen Andreessen who writes about, basically a similar experience in Chernobyl, and they, they measured this like nuclear tower before and after. And so I think it goes beyond just them not wanting us to blow ourselves up. There's something about the ambient electromagnetic radiation of just the earth that is this perfect kind of Petri dish, you know, biosphere.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that makes sense. And there's, maybe the, maybe the earth is actually emitting some of this, but there's, there's structures in the ether that are life-giving and that might even resurrect some extinct species at some point in time. And a nuclear blast could disrupt that, and radiation in general can disrupt that. And also, the government's known for years, the aliens definitely have this technology, and the government's known for years that you can actually affect the decay rate of radioisotopes by certain scalar electromagnetic waves. Scalar waves are a special form of electromagnetic radiation that is a different structure. It's a more fundamental form of electromagnetic radiation

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  than the transverse waves they talk about in the textbooks. And It interacts with the nuclei rather than the electrons and atoms like transverse waves do.

• 1:11:40Jesse Michels?

  Explain what a scalar wave is because scalar physics and scalar waves are often thrown around in these super hand wavy ways and yet they're often used as terms, you know, extended electrodynamic scalar waves by people who I really respect in kind of aerospace world. So what's your definition?

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  They're trying to keep it secret, but enough has got out to know the basics. A guy, Dr. Tom Bearden, talked about this a lot in his books, if you've read any of those.

• 1:12:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  And anyway, a scalar wave, a transverse wave, EM wave is a wave that has the E and the B fields perpendicular to each other and it moves in a manner perpendicular to both. And the E and the B fields are in phase. In a scalar wave, the electric and magnetic fields are 90 degrees out of phase and the magnetic field curves around like that and the electric field radiates as if it's coming from a positive or negative charge point. And it's like a sound wave in the ether, basically. And they can travel faster than light. They're not restricted to light speed.

• 1:12:51Jesse Michels?

  So I've heard similar things to that. And then the two places I always get frustrated is I'm like, have we ever measured a scalar wave? And usually the answer, like, have we? Do you think we have?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  I think they have lots of times and

• 1:13:06Jesse Michels?

  How would we measure?

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  Classified labs, but I have reason to believe that I haven't done the experiments yet. I'd love to get in the lab and do some, but

• 1:13:15Jesse Michels?

  Some sort of quantum sensor.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  I have reason to believe that you can generate scalar waves with standard radio equipment, but a different type of antenna. You'd use a dome shaped antenna, capacitive antenna with, say,

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Say a, a plastic dome with metal on both sides and you connect the, the electrodes of the, uh, of the oscillator to, um, uh, each metal, metal piece.

• 1:13:43Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating. Okay. And why do you think that that design would allow you to transmit scalar wave?

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  Um, uh, Townsend Browns work, but basically.

• 1:13:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had a, an asymmetric capacitor where the negative electrode was larger than the positive electrode.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Jesse Michels?

  But I think basically my sense is that the main thing is big electric field differentials. If you create big electric field differentials, then you can somehow harness the quantum vacuum fluctuation stuff.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. High voltage is work better without, I've reasonably, I, I, I wish I could, uh, I wish I had some concrete proof for you, but, um, just reading all this stuff that's available and thinking about it a lot and put this together.

• 1:14:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, I think high voltage should work better for that.

• 1:14:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. I mean, high voltage is definitely correlate with high electric field strength. And then there are ways to amp up the electric field strength kind of artificially.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Jesse Michels?

  As well, but, um, so fascinating. So what are you trying, how do we advance on this topic now? Is this, are we just in the stone age when we find these implants? Are we just like, we, we think this works like X, Y, Z, but we just have no idea what we're kind of looking at or?

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Well, I think the next step is we have to do more research, um, on the implants. Excuse me while they're still in the body and, um, try to, um,

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  uh, measure exactly how much they're transmitting and, um, uh, try to decode some of the signals. And, uh, after they're removed from the body, I think we need to, um, we need to try to connect the, connect the, um, there's, uh, carbon nanotube bundles that are like the main connection to the device. We should try stimulating those with, with, uh, uh, different voltages and see what happens.

• 1:15:28Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  Uh, under electron microscope or, or under microscopy in general. It wouldn't have to be a EM for that, I guess.

• 1:15:36Jesse Michels?

  Is there anybody else systematically looking into this besides you?

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  No. And then the third thing I would do is, um, use fast atom bombardment to. Uh, shave off, uh, uh, the devices layer by layer and, um, map the, uh, distribution of elements in each layer and the distribution of carbon nanotubes.

• 1:15:56Jesse Michels?

  Hmm. That would be fascinating. I mean, if you could do some atom by atom, you know, analysis, that would be also just groundbreaking because if, if these things are fabricated on the atomic layer, and then that's not something that we can do.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, they look like they're grown somehow.

• 1:16:12Jesse Michels?

  That's so wild. Like they're, like they're biological themselves or something.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Or, or nanotechnology. Like they look like they were grown by some sort of mechanical life, like the transformers on the, the movies.

• 1:16:25Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  Um, uh, that's a hand waving thing, I guess, but that's the best I can do right now. But, um, uh, putting that, putting a device like that so complex together, uh, by, uh, standard methods would be next to impossible, I think.

• 1:16:41Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  And, um, um, the other thing I wanted to say is that, um, when I first got into this, I thought the aliens are probably only a few hundred years in advance of us technologically. But, um, now I think that, uh, it might be more like a million years in advance of us.

• 1:16:58Jesse Michels?

  Why is that?

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Well, I've, they, they show off once in a while and, and, um, and, uh, show experiencers, uh, how, exactly how far ahead of us they, they really are. Um,

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  um, one incident, uh, that, um, really impressed me, um, was that, um, they, um, zapped my car with some kind of an energy weapon when I was, um, uh, going to Dr. Lur's, uh, office to, um, uh, film, um, uh, him, um, testing the implant while I was still in the body and, um,

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Uh, the mechanic said later that the, the computer in the car was fried like it was exposed to EMP or something. And, uh, so I had to walk like the, they did it when, when, uh, I was in this canyon, didn't get any cell phone reception. So I had to walk like two miles down the canyon to get cell phone reception and call him. And, um, uh, he and the film crew showed up and, and picked me up and brought me to the office. And when they got to the office, he goes, Steve, you come here, you gotta see this. And, uh, he'd pulled my x-ray out of a stack of x-rays and, um, um, it was in a stack with about 200 other x-rays. And, um, he showed it to me and the lettering

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  from the outside of the envelope that the x-ray was in had somehow been transferred to the developed x-ray film.

• 1:18:25Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I'm not even sure in theory how it could do that.

• 1:18:28Jesse Michels?

  So that's like root access to reality levels of manipulation or something?

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  Something like that. Um,

• 1:18:36Jesse Michels?

  That is bizarre.

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  Another time, um, my son and I were, uh, driving to, uh, our old vacation place in Bullhead City, Arizona, and we were on, uh, highway 40 out in a remote area. And, um, I saw this, uh, this bright white light hovering over this valley about five or 10 miles away. And, and, uh, it was really bright. And I go, hey, look, Garrett, there's a UFO. And he goes, what? I don't, he goes, I don't see anything. And I'm like, how could you not see that? It's like as bright as Venus. And, um, so I was tripping out on that and go, well, you know, and, um, and, um, then, um, a few miles down the road, uh, he started seeing ones that I couldn't see.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  It's like they can, they can control who sees them.

• 1:19:24Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  Uh, and who doesn't?

• 1:19:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  How they do that either?

• 1:19:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Not, not only signature management, but like unique sign, signature management for the person perceiving.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have, I have some, some, uh, theories about, uh, how they might manage to cloak themselves in general by various methods, but, um,

• 1:19:43Jesse Michels?

  What do you think it is?

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  Selective, selective, uh, uh, seeing like that sounds, uh, a little hard to do.

• 1:19:49Jesse Michels?

  That seems really hard to do. Do you think it's like the access to our brains and they have access to the signature management stuff? Do you think that we have reverse engineering programs and crash retrievals?

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. I think that's all true.

• 1:20:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any? What's your like, you know, highest conviction, hardest evidence on that? Cause you seem like an evidence-based person.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Well, I analyzed some of the, um, the wreckage from the San Augustine, New Mexico UFO crash. And I analyzed a piece of, um, an alien orb or sphere from, um, that Tommy Mossong got ahold of. And, um,

• 1:20:26Jesse Michels?

  Was this the Booga sphere?

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Not the Booga sphere, but the Booga is a different, uh, different design. But, um, uh, this one, um, was about, about this big round and it had, um, uh, large, um, vaporized, uh, from the looks of it, um, holes in the, the north and the south poles of the sphere. Um, the, the edges of the holes have been damaged by tremendous heat. And, um, um, Mossong bought it from a farmer that, um, uh, farmed about a hundred miles south of the US, the US border, um, near Brownsville, Texas, on the, uh, uh, east coast of Mexico.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  And, um, he says that when it crashed, um, it produced an explosion that killed a cow a hundred meters away.

• 1:21:14Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  And, um, uh, if, if there was a strong magnetic field around the craft, which are the orb, which I have reason to believe there was, um, then, um, the collapse of the magnetic field is what released the energy that, that vaporized the metal at the top and bottom.

• 1:21:32Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think this whole topic, it's like, it attracts a few really smart people like yourself? And then you have so much circumstantial evidence, like an abundance of circumstantial evidence. And then somehow it's like the one smoking gun that we always want is slips through your fingers. And I, I'm talking about this as a person who's, um, deeply, my revealed preference is that I'm like deeply interested in this stuff. I think there's a there there. I'm not a skeptic. But it's like this, like, it's always like the hard drive goes missing at the end. The photo is too little too blurry for like the consensus to believe it. It's so frustrating.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  It depends what you consider a smoking gun. I think that these, um, Extremely skewed isotopic ratios might be considered a smoking gun and the fact that a lot of these, these pieces are nanotechnological devices beyond our technology. And like that sphere was a made of a titanium alloy that had carbon nanotubes also built into the metal, which I think provided thrust by the bifield brown effect.

• 1:22:43Jesse Michels?

  It did?

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't know what else could have made it fly.

• 1:22:47Jesse Michels?

  Do you have this thing?

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Not anymore. It got stolen.

• 1:22:53Jesse Michels?

  Got stolen?

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54Jesse Michels?

  Who stole it?

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  My family, if you can believe that.

• 1:22:59Jesse Michels?

  Oh, man, I'm sorry.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:00Jesse Michels?

  That's horrible.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:03Jesse Michels?

  Why? They took it?

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I still do have some other alien stuff, but, but yeah, I can't find it anymore. I have reason to believe it was in some stuff that they stole.

• 1:23:15Jesse Michels?

  Jesus Christ, man, I'm so sorry. That's messed up. It's not cool.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:23:20Jesse Michels?

  Do you have, is it, how does your family view, I mean, your, your wife is here. She's absolutely lovely. And I can tell she's interested in this topic. Do you have other family? And what do they think of your interest in all this stuff?

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  Uh, well, my ex-wife is a, um, a Christian fundamentalist or says she is because of her, her family's convictions and, um, uh, she is, uh, I think convinced my kids that, um, that I'm, uh, of the devil or something along those lines.

• 1:23:51Jesse Michels?

  Jesus, I'm sorry.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  And my mother is kind of unstable and also is, uh, kind of turned my kids against me as well. She's, she's afraid I'll embarrass her by going on, on the air, putting stuff on the internet, things like that.

• 1:24:07Jesse Michels?

  Well, I'm sorry, Dan. I think your brain is a gift to humanity. So, uh, and so we, we don't know where this object is that was taken from you.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I don't know.

• 1:24:17Jesse Michels?

  Ah, damn, that's crazy. And then what about the, um, the piece from, uh, St. Augustine crash in New Mexico?

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  I still have, I still have some of that.

• 1:24:23Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Jesse Michels?

  And have you done, you've done isotopic analysis on that and that has isotope ratios that are weird?

• 1:24:31Speaker 02

  Yes, top ratios on, on that, uh, were not that remarkable.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  So that material may have may have come from Earth. It may have some manufacturing facilities on Earth, too.

• 1:24:44Jesse Michels?

  What material is it? Like, what element?

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  It's mainly aluminum.

• 1:24:48Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  The the sphere was a titanium alloy that with carbon nanotubes built into the metal and small like half millimeter voids introduced into the metal to lower the density. So it had tremendous strength and was stronger than most any titanium alloy I know of. But it was about the same density as aluminum.

• 1:25:10Jesse Michels?

  And when you say bifield brown, you're just assuming that that's the anti-gravitational force created.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  You could make capacitors out of the the carbon nanotubes. The carbon nanotubes had a capacitive dielectric coating on them in this case. So it seems a reasonable assumption.

• 1:25:27Jesse Michels?

  So interesting.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  And you could use that spherical shape as a receiver for scalar energy. Tesla was trying to do that to power flying vehicles.

• 1:25:36Jesse Michels?

  Did he have designs for flying? Yeah, I know he had worked at.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  I think he actually I think he actually flew some.

• 1:25:42Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  This rumor has it.

• 1:25:44Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:45Jesse Michels?

  Where are those rumors? I didn't know about that. That's amazing.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  There's a book called Lost Science, I believe it's in there. It's hard to get a hold of now.

• 1:25:56Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any footage of the implant being taken out of any of these patients?

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  I'm not sure if I I may I may have like one or two pieces like that. I definitely have a lot of photos and stuff like that.

• 1:26:07Jesse Michels?

  It'd be amazing to show as much as we can, just because I think the average person, this is so far out.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's it's way people don't believe it because it's so far outside what we're taught.

• 1:26:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  And the government's done their best to punish people that believe in this in various ways.

• 1:26:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I feel like I have to ask this question, but I feel like it's important for you because you've seen like a very lovely person. I've really enjoyed this conversation. If you Google your name, for whatever reason, this OKC bombing thing shows up. And so I just want to give you an opportunity to address what that is. A massive car bomb exploded outside of a large federal building in downtown Oklahoma City.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  That building, killing children, killing federal employees, military men and civilians. Oh, yeah. Well, I got I got in trouble with the feds thirty years ago on a gun charge, weapons charge and I got investigated along with fourteen thousand other people that were into similar things at that time. And they, as I can figure, the ATF was trying to punish me for not cooperating in their investigation by trying to link me to that bombing.

• 1:27:29Jesse Michels?

  Oh, they were just trying to link you to that?

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32Jesse Michels?

  And you didn't, you never knew Timothy McVeigh?

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  No, they never had any proof of any of that.

• 1:27:36Jesse Michels?

  That's so weird.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  In fact, I found out from a guy that was writing, that's writing a book on Oklahoma City that I was cleared early on in the investigation, but they kept on saying out on the news that.

• 1:27:46Jesse Michels?

  That sucks, man. It almost makes me think there's some sort of campaign against you because like, why is there so much online?

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  Well, I think there is. I think they're, I think they're trying, I think they're, they're taking full advantage of that whole thing to try to discredit my UFO research now.

• 1:28:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And you never crossed paths with McVeigh at all? You never even met?

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  No, I met, never met the guy.

• 1:28:06Jesse Michels?

  That's so crazy. And he didn't have a UCLA connection or anything like?

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:28:09Jesse Michels?

  Okay. That's weird, man. I'm sorry.

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Well, you know, if I wrote down everything that's occurred in my life in an autobiography, I don't think anybody'd believe it.

• 1:28:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  You know, but I experienced it, so.

• 1:28:25Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what, what's, anything come to mind?

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Well, just all, all this stuff and, you know, first they tried to link me to this Oklahoma thing and then the aliens show up and just a very, very odd series of events.

• 1:28:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And is there, is there anything about your?

• 1:28:46Jesse Michels?

  Is there anything about your father, his history that might be related? So you said at the end of his life, he sort of admitted that he was, you know, um, uh, maybe, you know, was taken up on a craft. Do you think he was doing any sort of covert work in any of these areas or?

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  I, I'm not sure. I don't think he was doing any covert work, but, um, he was, he was, uh, he kept things pretty close to his chest. So, um, I think if he was, I'd be the last person he would have told.

• 1:29:11Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what would have even been going on at Oxnard specifically, but yeah.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, there's a, there's a, um, military base there that near there that was very important at one time, Point McGee.

• 1:29:26Jesse Michels?

  Okay. Point McGee. What did they do at Point McGee?

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  Tested a lot of missiles, um,

• 1:29:31Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  Submarine launched missiles and air-to-air missiles mostly.

• 1:29:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay. It's fascinating, man. Well, I really hope you get all the support, uh, for your work. You, you're trying to raise money for this, this, this company. Is that right?

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:44Jesse Michels?

  Neutron star nanotech.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  The economy being so bad right now, I haven't had a whole lot of success, but, um, I'm still, uh, hoping to, um, get that, uh, off the ground.

• 1:29:52Jesse Michels?

  Well, hopefully this gets amplified among people with deep pockets who are interested, I think, in supporting, you know, some of the most frontier science and work.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  Oh, um, uh, uh, very, uh, wealthy people have come forward a couple of times and, uh, wanted to support my work, but it, it fell through and I had reason to believe at the time that, that, uh, the government told them not to do it.

• 1:30:15Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Robert Bigelow was going to hire me for his company at one time too. And that also fell through.

• 1:30:22Jesse Michels?

  What, why do you?

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Very strange.

• 1:30:23Jesse Michels?

  What do you think it is? You know, with Bigelow and a lot of these guys, it's like, there's this desire to get into this stuff and you really want to know. And then things get like dark at a certain point, like it's, it's, it's sort of, it's, it's a very, and I find this, you know, With my own inquiries into the topic where like it's just uh it's hard to navigate because there's a lot of weird stuff, you know, it's there's a lot, there are a lot of bad, there's a lot of bad energy and then there's, there's good energy too. There are amazing people in this field, but a lot of people are attracted to it for the wrong reasons and there's, I think there's even like a, like an Old Testament line about trying to use,

• 1:31:04Jesse Michels?

  trying to go into, you know, kind of sacred stuff using with a commercial impulse and that being like this really, you know, bad thing to do. Having said that, I think we live in a capitalist system and like the only thing that kind of works in the modern day is like start a company around the thing. So I'm not like anti all companies, you know, I used to invest in companies. So it's this weird, but it is this weird thing where I think if, if the motivation is to make money off the thing, it often goes south and I, I don't know Bigelow, I'd love to interview him, but my, my sense is it sort of didn't pan out maybe in the way he wanted it to.

• 1:31:41Speaker 02

  Well, Dr. Lear told me that, that he, he started this aerospace company of his, um, uh, because he had, uh, an alien experience of his own out in the desert and, um, that, um, they told him to meet them in space.

• 1:31:59Jesse Michels?

  Who, who said this? This is-

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  The aliens told him-

• 1:32:01Jesse Michels?

  This is Bigelow?

• 1:32:02Speaker 02

  To meet them, Bigelow, they told Bigelow to meet them in space.

• 1:32:05Jesse Michels?

  Whoa, really?

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:08Jesse Michels?

  So Bigelow had an experience and the aliens said, we'll meet you in space.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32:13Jesse Michels?

  And then from then on, he like committed his life essentially to looking into all this stuff, UFO reverse engineering, hiring the alien implant specialist, like really?

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  On the Bigelow aerospace website, there was a little alien head too.

• 1:32:29Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  Kind of like he was announcing that or-

• 1:32:33Jesse Michels?

  That is absolutely wild. The amount of stories you hear like that, like, um, I think Agnew Bonson, who, uh, he headed up the Institute for Field Physics and, um, you know, uh, uh, at North Carolina Chapel Hill, and he also funded Townsend Brown. So he was working on all this crazy anti-gravity stuff and hosting kind of the top gravity physicists in the world, Freeman Dyson, Feynman, um, Peter Bergman, all these guys convened, John Wheeler, at the Institute of Field Physics in 1957 for this Chapel Hill conference. And he in his diaries talks about like the space brothers talking to him and possibly kind of prompting him to look into this stuff. Townsend Brown had similar experiences where he, he had space brother experiences that he discusses. So it's like you're being prompted by the beings

• 1:33:17Jesse Michels?

  to look into what their tech is or something.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  They, they, they talked to Tesla too, according to what, to his writings.

• 1:33:25Jesse Michels?

  He said that, yeah, in Colorado Springs. He said he communicated with aliens. Did you, um, ever have anything like that? I mean, I have to ask you because you're working on all this stuff. Did the beings ever say, Steve, you are gonna dedicate your life to alien research?

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Hmm, I, I don't remember them saying that specifically, but I've always had, um, an obsession with, um, with, uh, uh, this kind of research and, um, certain other things. Um, and I think that they do that to a lot of people because, um, once you get obsessed with the topic and you do all this research on it, if they have a brain implant in you, then they know it too at that point. So they're, they're getting you to do their research for them.

• 1:34:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's like this weird distributed science model or something where like they just have, they're collecting intel through these different scientific nodes or something. It's so trippy.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:18Jesse Michels?

  And we're all, we're all maybe their science experiment, who knows?

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  Well, one of the obsessions, uh, part of the reason I got into trouble before is one of the obsessions was with weapons. And, um, I, you know, it's, I think that's, uh, kind of a characteristic with some, uh, some people that are class two experiencers. There was one guy that was a most likely a class two experiencer that, um, that, uh, had a bunch of guns in his house and it was a, there was a big to do over that. So maybe it's a characteristic. I don't know.

• 1:34:48Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating. Well Steve, I really appreciate this. This is a lot of fun. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. I could tell we're interested in a lot of the same stuff.

• 1:34:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:57Jesse Michels?

  And yeah, I really, really appreciate your time.

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, no problem. It's my pleasure.

• 1:35:02Jesse Michels?

  Awesome.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

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