The Hustler's Guide to Preschool

with @bhorowitz @shakasenghor @8ennett & sherie james Hustlin’ Tech is a new show (part of the a16z Podcast) that introduces the technology platforms -- and mindsets -- for everybody and anybody who has the desire, the talent, and the hustle to do g...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Ben Horowitz?

  All right, well, thank you all for coming. Today, we're gonna do an episode of our podcast, The Hustler's Guide to Tech. And what The Hustler's Guide to Tech is for is if you have the talent, the desire, and the hustle to do great things, and are looking for that opportunity to shine, we're here to help by introducing you to the technology platforms that can let you do just that. And so, across from me, I've got my co-host, Shaka Senghor. What up, y'all? Good morning. To my left, our hustler, Sheri James.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Good morning.

• 0:50Ben Horowitz?

  Sheri has gone from teaching kids her whole career to using Chris's platform, who is the CEO of Wonder School, to create, run, and most importantly, own her own school.

• 1:08Ben Horowitz?

  And this is Chris Bennett, the CEO, the founder CEO of Wonder School.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Hello, everyone.

• 1:14Ben Horowitz?

  All right, well, let's get into it. Chris, tell us about, what is Wonder School?

• 1:17Speaker 02

  So, I grew up in Miami, Florida. My family is from Honduras. And, growing up, I grew up in a pretty large family, one of 31 cousins.

• 1:30Ben Horowitz?

  Wow, that's a lot of cousins.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  That's a lot of cousins.

• 1:33Ben Horowitz?

  So, when you see somebody, you're just like, what up, cousins?

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And when I was in 3rd grade, I was in the gifted program. When I was in high school, had all of these options for college. I was the first in my family to go to college. Went to the Wharton School. Of the 31 cousins, only four of us ended up going to college. And, looking back on my childhood, there was one really unique thing about my experience relative to most of my cousins. I went to one of the best preschools in Miami. Wow. And when I, when I, looking back on that experience, um, I moved to San Francisco and I realized there's this huge shortage of childcare. And I'm hearing this from all over the, from a number of people.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  And, uh, thinking about that problem, I'm thinking, you know, how could we solve that problem? And, uh, I thought back to my sister who went to an in-home daycare in our community. And, uh, the woman who started the school is still running her business today, thirty-five years later. I thought, you know, this could, this could solve this problem. We could create a lot more programs, um, and, and, and fill the gap. And so the idea was, what if we could help people start and operate their own childcares out of their homes?

• 2:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I think it's something that we don't really talk enough about in the country. It's about ownership of the, the things that serve our community. Sheri, being an educator and being able to work with young, young kids, uh, very early on, what was it about, like, the idea of ownership that really resonated with you?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't really know how or what to do to open my own program. Um, I've always worked with someone else. And so I was trying to figure out what skills that I had to kind of help myself maintain my life as normal, as well as maybe be at home with my son at the time.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  And, um, then I found Wonder School. So they actually just helped me just kind of organize all my thoughts and my ideas on one, on a, on a website, as well as walking myself through the licensing process. Gave me a sounding board to talk to and ask questions to.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Um, helped guide me through the licensing process because it could be kind of over, a little bit overwhelming with all the applications. And then you have all of the licensing, um, requirements that you need to go through. And then you have to have your, um... inspections and things of that sort. So having someone to talk to throughout that process was really great. Also setting up my actual environment. Because that's also something that was really important to me. How do I turn my home into a school? So that was something I also had to do.

• 4:15Ben Horowitz?

  Right, right. And how, like, what age kids do you have?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Currently, my youngest is, well, what's four months and my oldest is four. You have to make sure that your home is safe. And I try to allocate two rooms as well as my outdoor play space for this program. So then that way my kids feel comfortable. Also, my family feels comfortable and they also have their own personal rooms as well. So we have a family room set up as well as a backyard. They have a bonus room outside of my house as well.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, one of the things I love hearing is that you keep saying my kids. Because I got a little confused when I'm like, zero and four. I'm like, okay, what about the other kids? But as a parent, like, I have a seven-year-old son. And it's really important for me to know that any space that I bring my son into, that he's loved, that he's welcome, that is healthy, that is whole. So hearing you just refer to the kids in that manner is really exciting. One of the things Ben and I were just discussing was like, you know, how do you market things and how do people learn information?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I was just on Facebook one night, just kind of scrolling through my feed and then watching. That's kind of my entertainment. And an ad came across and it was Chris. And they were asking for, if you're interested in opening your own program,

• 5:28Speaker 01

  to contact them. And then you had to fill out a little bio or interest page. And then you also had to take a picture. But your space did not have to be set up. That was the great thing about it because my space was not quite set up yet. It was just a family room at the time. And then they got back to me and they walked me through the process.

• 5:45Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, and Chris, how do you like help people like Sherry market her program so that they can expand and get more students?

• 5:52Speaker 02

  There are a number of ways. So most, a lot of, a lot of parents sort of congregate. And they congregate online and offline. So they'll congregate in a lot of parent groups and a lot of like mom groups on Facebook. And so we work with all of our directors to promote their businesses in those areas. And then we do a lot of, you know, marketing through ads and through a lot of events.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  One of the reasons for the podcast is really to make technology more accessible to people, especially people who don't come through like the more what they interpret as a stereotypical nerdy spaces, right? And there's something really appealing about being able to reach parents and connect with parents who most people may not think would jump into the business model. So how has that experience been, you know, seeing people who are really interested in that may not come through the normally normal pipeline?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  From a parent's standpoint or from a director's standpoint?

• 6:49Speaker 03

  From a parent's standpoint.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, what we find is that a lot of the parents we work with, it's their first child. And parents who have their first child are very, very nervous and protective of their child.

• 7:06Ben Horowitz?

  By the eighth kid, it's like, whatever.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  By the eighth kid, it's like, just take the kid. And so one of the things we think a lot about is making that experience feel comforting for the for the parent as they're going through the process. One thing we like to do is make sure they see a lot of schools so they can get a sense of the different types of programs that they can choose from. And then, once they find a program, we actually don't stop there. Like, it's really common for a child to cry on their first day of school, or maybe even their first week of school. And parents get really nervous. They get, they freak out and they think that something is wrong. And we essentially coach parents through that experience. And then the idea is,

• 7:49Speaker 02

  how do we help that parent become a better parent and work with the director so that they can, you know, ensure that their child gets developed the right way?

• 7:57Ben Horowitz?

  That's a funny story. You know, when I was a kid, my mom told me this story. She dropped me off at preschool and I started crying and the school is like, just leave him here, he'll be fine.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 8:07Ben Horowitz?

  And she comes back three hours later and she said, I was still crying and soaking wet from tears.

• 8:14Ben Horowitz?

  I was a bad kid. Usually, most of them are better.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:19Ben Horowitz?

  Sherry, one thing is, you know, a lot of parents have trouble affording a preschool program, but you've been able to help them with that. Tell us how you did that.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Well, one thing that I've implemented in my program is I accept subsidies. So, what subsidies are, basically, there's different programs in the county you live in that help parents of poor childcare. So, I try to make sure I have room in my program for those children as well.

• 8:42Ben Horowitz?

  How did you learn how to accept subsidies and do that kind of work?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Well, that was something that was really important to me. I wanted to offer a high-quality program in an area that maybe normally doesn't offer certain things. I want to have a play base. I want to have an outdoor program. It's really important, I think, for kids to play outside and have that outdoor experience. We have a garden in my program, so we have a lot of hands-on activities within seeing the food grow and how to plant food, and then walking them through that process as well. Teaching them where our food comes from.

• 9:12Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, and so, how did you start out? Like, what was this background in early childhood education that you had? And then, just for yourself, with your kids, I mean, your other kids that were your kids, like, how did you think about that?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  So, I did a traditional path. I went to school. All through college, I always worked in some sort of education or administration. As I worked my way up through the ranks, I automatically went through administration and started working somehow in social work. And then, I was doing social work for over 10 years, working with the homeless downtown Los Angeles. And also, working with children and families of intellectually disabled individuals, doing casework as well as social work in that environment. And then, also, I did some behavioral positions. And so, I wanted to kind of link all of my skills into one platform. I was trying to figure out a way to service my community and utilize the skills I have as well as open my own business.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  So initially, my target was to create an environment for children with special needs. I want to take all the children that the other program did not want.

• 10:19Ben Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  And I wanted to link them into my program. That was my initial idea, how I thought I would work everything out.

• 10:25Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's a lot of work. That's the highest degree of difficulty in special needs cases.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely, but it takes like, you know, if you have a love for that, then it doesn't feel so bad, it doesn't feel like so stressful. You know, I actually prefer those children.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Sometimes, because the thing about it is, people always think that the children who have the special needs are gonna be the ones who are gonna be the most challenging. No, no, no, it's those ones who think they know everything are the ones that give you all the problems.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  You know, the children who have intellectual disabilities, they don't, they don't come into it thinking that they know everything.

• 10:58Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  They come into it thinking that you're probably gonna automatically reject them and all their behaviors already off the, off top.

• 11:03Ben Horowitz?

  And, you know, when you were doing the social work, were there things that you took away from the programs that you used to route kids into that you should and should not do with your own business?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Definitely. We do an interview when you come into my program. You do a tour, you do an interview. You're interviewing me, I'm also interviewing you.

• 11:20Ben Horowitz?

  And are you interviewing the parents more or the kids?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Both, both. I try to, I prefer if the parents bring the child, of course, so we can bring them into the space, they can play. I usually try to do it during hours where we have an activity going on, or we have a rare outside play, and so, because children learn through play. So you get a chance to learn a lot about the child and the parent by letting the child just simply just play. Some parents have a really hard time letting their kids just play and just go. It's really interesting to watch.

• 11:48Speaker 03

  Chris, one of the things that's really been exciting for me, being a father and understanding like what children need from men and the importance of that. So when I found out, you know, about your work, I was excited because I'm like, okay, and it's a cool young brother, and he's being thoughtful about children and really creating space for them to be nourished and, you know, raised in a healthy and whole environment. And ownership, like what does that look like for you? Like in terms of like who are the entrepreneurs?

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the makeup of the entrepreneurs is all women. We have, we have hundreds of programs on our platform.

• 12:30Ben Horowitz?

  It's a good thing we're at Essence.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  It's true. There's only one, one guy who runs a wonder school. And it's very personal for me. My mom was an entrepreneur and I saw her start businesses. A number of them didn't work out, but you know, some of them did. And I got to work really closely with her to build the companies that she was working on. And so it feels very familiar for me to empower women on the platform to start these businesses and grow them.

• 12:57Ben Horowitz?

  What do you look for in an entrepreneur? Because you know, not, not everybody is kind of cut out to run a super high quality early education program. So what, you know, what do you screen for?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  So the, there's a couple of like key things. One, you have to love children like that. That's like a must. And so if we meet someone who's like, hey, I just want to make a quick buck. But like, I'm not really that interested in the children. That's like probably not the right fit.

• 13:24Ben Horowitz?

  My preschool hustle.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Not the right fit. The other thing is, is grit, you know, like starting one of these businesses and getting it up and running, especially when we go to a new market where we don't necessarily have a presence there. We have to partner really closely with the director to actually make their business successful. And you need to have grit to get through the early months of getting your program up and running. And then once you get the parents in the, in the program continually running your business. It's a, it's really rewarding, but there's ups and downs as well. And so we're looking for individuals who are, who are, who are ready for that experience.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Sherry, what would you say to somebody who's looking to take that leap from nine to five, working for somebody else to really establish their own business? What would be your words of wisdom?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Honestly, I would just tell them, if their heart is leading them down this path of entrepreneurship, then go for it, but just know that it's not going to be easy. You're definitely going to have those challenging moments and times. You're going to have your highs and your lows, but if you're willing to stay the course and keep your eye on the prize, then you'll get through it. You know, every obstacle, I always say, like, too much is given, much is required. There's been plenty of times where I had to call Chris here. When I was concerned about my enrollment numbers and I'm like, "Chris, I've been open for over four months. I'm not full yet," you know. And you have to know your environment.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  It takes some time to learn that. It takes time to learn your business.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  You know, I've been open almost three years now and still I'm learning.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  So.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I'm always changing my program. I'm always adapting it to the clients that I have and the children that I have and I'm servicing.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, one of the things that really inspired us is removing some of the mental barriers that stand in the way. It can be intimidating, right? If you don't come from technology. And what would you say to somebody that's saying, "You know, I really want to get involved, but I'm a little bit intimidated by the platform." Like, what are some things that makes that more accessible to people?

• 15:31Speaker 01

  I would say the only question that's dumb is if they wanted you to answer. Because the thing about it is, you just don't know. Then don't ever assume anything either. And if you don't know, I'm always asking my students questions. I'm always asking my parents questions. Is this working for you? If it's not working for you, how can we both make this work? You have to be able to adapt and change to your environment because every day is so different. You know, one week, we might be doing yogurt all week. Everybody's eating yogurt just fine, but next week, everyone hates yogurt. So I guess we have to come up with something else for them to eat.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Just something new to learn. So as long as you're not willing to, as long as you're willing to open your mind, open your thoughts, and keep challenging yourself, you'll get through it.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Cool, cool. Because we're on this journey of really learning and understanding, like, the background part of building up these type of businesses, these platforms. One of the things that really stands out to me is like... You're a young brother in this tech space. It's one of the conversations that's not talked about enough. Like, what are some things that we can be doing to not only celebrate and lift that up, especially given we're at Essence's 25th anniversary, but to make that part of just the normal conversation? Where people walk in a room, is the expectation is that it's okay to run these tech-based businesses and really to utilize them in a way that helps the rest of the community see where they can add value at.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great question. Being a black man who's an entrepreneur in San Francisco is pretty rare.

• 17:02Ben Horowitz?

  That's an actual unicorn.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  I think a lot of it is I'm really fortunate from my upbringing, where I saw a lot of people in my family start businesses. And my uncle runs a very successful hospital in Honduras. My another uncle runs an import-export business in Miami. My dad ran a grocery store. My mom ran a perfume business and is a tax preparer. I saw a lot of people in my family sort of choose to go their own way. I didn't know that people went to college to get a job. I thought you went to college to learn so you can go eventually start your own company. That's why I went.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  And so I think that, you know, one of the key things to increase, you know, the exposure of black individuals in technology, one of the things is expose people to entrepreneurship really early. And I think that's what's really cool. All of the women that are starting businesses on Wonder School are entrepreneurs. And they're exposing not only their children to it, but the communities that they're serving to entrepreneurship and the joys of it.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  I come from a history of entrepreneurship too, it's a little bit different.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  It's a little different.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  Never knew how it's different. But what I learned in that culture is that there are transferable skills. As we think about how tech is removing barriers to entry. What would you say to somebody who doesn't come from that traditional path? That doesn't come from a college or doesn't come from a family background and just say, "You know what? I need to figure out how to take ownership of my life, ownership of my destiny. I want to venture off into entrepreneurship." What do you say to those people who come from that culture where they have these transferable skills, but may not feel like they have access?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  It's interesting you say that because I try to teach the kids from very small to take ownership in their decisions, right? So I try to tell my kids all the time, "You have good choices and you have bad choices. And there's consequences for every choice you make, right? So at the same time to make, I would say make some smart sexy, right? So you have to let them know like, "Oh, my gosh, you made such a positive choice in making this decision and going in this direction, right?" You know, or if they come up with their own idea, they're coming their own... Making every idea, giving them empowerment and telling them what a great job that they're doing. From small. I think it takes, it starts at a very young age. You can see the difference in the children who get chastised for making mistakes. So you make a mistake, it's okay. Okay, so let's get back up, let's figure this out and let's go another direction.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  You cannot, you can't dwell on that. And I don't believe in chastising kids for making mistakes because that's what they're doing. Raw learning and growing, right? Even when Miss Sherry makes mistakes, I take ownership in that. Because the kids will correct you, they do. And they let me know if I get off schedule, you know, they let me know, "Oh, my gosh, well, you forgot to do..." And it's okay. My youngest biological child is four years old and my oldest is 13. So I've taught my daughter, my oldest, she will tell you off the bat, like she knows that there's opportunities past just going to college. That she can own her own business, that there's opportunities there. I believe that I've embodied that for her as well as just help mold her ideas and thoughts and let her know that she can control her own destiny in that.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  I'm so happy you brought that into the conversation. Yeah. I think one of the intimidating factors about venturing off into entrepreneurship is nobody wants to fail. Nobody wants to mess up.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  And it's all failure.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  And it's all failure, right? Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I had a nine-to-five job.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I had a pension. I had all those different things that you're supposed to have. You know, I was a new homeowner. So, like, to step out on faith and start my own business, people, my family was like, "Are you crazy? Like, what is wrong with you? Like, you have a degree, like, you have a job, you're working for, like, the state. Why would you want to do that?" And for me, it was more so, like, I just wanted to take control of my own destiny.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I really just wanted to take control of my own life and decide, like, what my future would look like.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  You know, I wanted to get up every day and feel like my work is actually making a difference directly. And it wasn't just about the reports, it wasn't just about the numbers and someone else's numbers and making someone else money. It was about, you know, how could I manage my own household? I always tell Chris, "I just want to be able to make it. Let me make it. Make the minimum income." But it's so funny, now it's like, through entrepreneurship, I've surpassed all that.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:37Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, I think on a broader level, that's so much the key to everything because as you can move from a model of, "I've got a boss, now I'm vulnerable to the boss," and, you know, I'm often, because of that, I end up in debt. And then you move to, "No, I'm an owner and I have equity." And so, that's how you kind of create a whole nother world. And it's interesting that it starts in preschool with owning your own decisions and not being afraid to make a mistake and not being negative with kids, which is a, you know, that's a cultural thing, which, you know, it starts right there to change.

• 22:21Ben Horowitz?

  If you want to get to a culture of ownership, you got to make the kids owner.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:25Ben Horowitz?

  And if they're going to be owners, then they can't be penalized. That's an amazing insight.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, so speaking of that, that culture of fear. So how do you combat that when you're dealing with parents and you're just like, "Oh, I have to send them back home." I've been a mentor for a long time. And one of the biggest battles that I've ever had to fought is knowing that these children who, you know, who I've been entrusted with, they're going home to families who don't have the same belief system about ownership, about failure, about not punishment, but really helping people to understand and navigate that. So you're working with these young, precious minds, but you're competing with what's happening in the household. How does that show up, whether it's in your curriculum or just your engagement with the parents? And like, what does that look like across the board?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  It's all about building trust, building a relationship. So from the very beginning, you know, I have to teach my parents that they have to be able to trust me. I would let them know, "If you don't trust me, then maybe it's not the right place for you."

• 23:25Speaker 03

  So you're teaching the parents as well, which is...

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yes. I always say I'm teaching my parents sometimes first, then I'm teaching my students. You know, you teach people how to treat you at the end of the day. So I think that a lot of times with my parents, if they have any questions or concerns, I let them know. They can call me a thousand and one times a day. They can text me a thousand and one times a day. Doesn't mean I'm gonna answer every single text, but just know that I will respond to you. Through the platform, we have an app now that we can communicate with our parents.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Oh, that's great.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  So we can let them parents know what's going on throughout the day. Even before that, I think that I would just message my parents, letting them know how their students are doing. Letting them know that they're having a really stressful morning and that they've been crying for over two hours. Like, that's something that I would have implemented in that situation.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  They're having a bin. They'd stick me right out of the first one.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have let you cry for two, three hours. I wouldn't have. We would have had to figure something out. But those are different things that, you know, I do to try to make sure that my parents feel comfortable and my students feel comfortable. But it's really interesting because once my students come into my household, my biologic kids get jealous. And sometimes my students are more comfortable, you know, without my kids there. So like during the summertime, for example, our spaces combined. So it's interesting when my infants are looking at my kids like, like, why are you trying to take my attention away from me, you know? But I think you have to make everyone comfortable. That's what it boils down to. Building rapport and being honest.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Even when things are not going good, you have to be honest with them.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, we talked a lot about the education system in general in America and how some of the structural things sets up, you know, people in poverty and people of color for a failure of a very high magnitude. So when you hear any success stories, like, how does that feel to know that you're countering that narrative?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  It's very motivating. I want to keep building. When I hear these stories, I want to make sure that we're doing right by the directors who are on the platform and the parents on the platform. But I just want, like, this insatiable desire of more. Like, how can we make this bigger?

• 25:40Ben Horowitz?

  And as an entrepreneur, how do you think about that? You know, the, I want to grow the platform. I want every child having access to this opportunity with keeping the program really high quality. Because it seems like that's a real tension because not everybody can do this. Like, how do you make sure that every teacher, every director is of that quality? While reaching the whole world?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  So Sheri was one of the early directors on the Wonder School platform. So her and I worked actually really closely to build her school. And so I know very intimately all of the different challenges and opportunities that go into creating a high-quality program and finding a director who can create a high-quality program. And when we were raising our Series A, Jeff Jordan introduced me to Brian Chesky at Airbnb. And Brian, you know, and I got on a call and he's like, "Look..." All right, you've, you're raising this round, congratulations. You've been able to figure out how to get here and now your job is to

• 26:50Speaker 02

  build the company that can take this idea and make it larger. And a lot of that goes into focusing on the people that you bring on, bring into the company and how you work with those people to, to build out the idea.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  And so what I really focus on is hiring the right people, training the, training them the right way and spending a lot of time working with folks inside of the company to understand the vision. So we have an education team that works with anyone who's starting a program on the platform. We inspect their home, we work, we make sure that they have the right motivation to start a program. And then we help them craft their environment. So that's like setting up the different learning areas of, of the program and working with the director to make sure that they're crafting their environment the right way. And then we work with directors to make sure that they're growing their business, not only

• 27:51Speaker 02

  from a, from an economic standpoint, but also from a quality standpoint. So when I started the company, just for some background, I'm like, look, I have this experience starting technology companies and I'm really passionate about this problem, but I'm not an educator. And so the, our fifth hire is a woman named Mia Pritz, who has a really extensive background in early childhood education. And she, you know, worked at a company called CCLC and they created Google Daycare. And they created daycares at Pixar and a number of, you know, these big technology companies that, that have like very demanding parenting expect, like the highest of quality.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  And the idea is how can we take a lot of those ideas and infuse it into the community of directors that we work with? And so building a team of, you know, really experienced educators who not only have been preschool teachers. But a lot of the directors we work with actually have run their own in-home programs as well. Or have trained individuals to start their own in-home programs.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  And so is that is that something you foresee in the future? Is training other entrepreneurs to really run the programs and set up homes? And then that delicate balance between just family life and, you know, running a preschool?

• 29:16Speaker 01

  All the above, all the above. We had, before we even had the app, we also used Slack at the time.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  A lot of the directors would pull together on this, on this one app. And if you want to vent, you can vent about something. If you have a question about licensing, or you have a question about how to deal with a difficult sleeper, a napper, a difficult parent.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Me.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Then we would kind of brainstorm. It's interesting, some of the original directors that we first started out with, we kind of would pull together and visit each other's programs and give each other ideas. One of the first directors that I met, she had a one-bedroom apartment at the time. And I was like, how is she doing this out of a one-bedroom? And she was already licensed. And so she invited me and my son for a play date or two, and we went to her program. And I saw how she pretty much made something out of nothing you would have never even thought. And she was doing pretty well for herself, so well that she ended up opening up her, another program. And so she, in her own, she moved into another house. She lived in a affordable better house after that.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  And so I, I was like, wow, you know, she's doing more with less than I have.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  So it really kind of made me reframe my thinking and working with what I already had. I thought that I needed to do so much work. That was one of the barriers that I had. I wanted things to look perfect before I opened. And then I was, saw what she was doing, I was like, you know what, I can, I can work with this.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  You know she has five programs now.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  I heard, I heard.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  She started a one-bedroom, and now she has five different homes where she's running different programs today.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  How does that work? Like, as a daycare, is she setting them up with other people who are homeowners?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I believe that she meets people within her own community, and she just helps them, walk them through the process.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so, and talking about expansion, so what regions is Wonder School in? Is it west coast, east coast?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, when we, so we're in four cities now. We're in Denver, New York, San Francisco, and LA.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  And when we started, we thought we could just go national really quickly. But what we found is that we needed teams in the different cities to support our directors and support the communities. And so we've take, we're taking a much more of a city by city approach now.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Okay, good, but I'm definitely gonna advocate for Detroit, cause that's where I'm from. You know, push hard to get y'all in the P. Gotta get that, make that happen. Uh, so no, that's exciting to hear, and you're in LA.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was one of the first LA schools.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  So now, so now I currently live in LA as well, and, and, and, uh, the price, the cost of living can be astronomical. So how do you bu, balance that out as an entrepreneur, saying I'm gonna venture off, knowing that, you know, the, the cost of living in LA is, is kinda crazy, and you're betting on yourself? Like, how did you break through that, you know?

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I have three little people that were depending on me, and, um, plus two. So I had to get, I had to get myself together. At the end of the day, it's one of those things where, once you start your, start your process out, you have to be practical with yourself. So, like, there's, there was definitely some clients in the beginning that I probably wouldn't have normally accepted now, but at the same time, you know, when you're first

• 32:31Speaker 03

  starting out. Why, why would you accept them? Like, what was up?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Challenging behaviors. Challenging behaviors from not only the child, but from the parent.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, from the parent.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  You know, the parents sometimes have challenging behaviors.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  And working through that, I always say, all money is not good money. I mean, just because, people will say, "Oh, I'll pay you, yeah, you, we work Friday nights."

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  You have to set healthy boundaries.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  I used to say yes to everything. I would say, "Oh, can I come Friday night?" "Okay." And then one night, I had a child till nine forty-five at night.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  And the kid was there at six forty-five in the morning. So I'm like, "What, what time do you come, or gonna come?" And she's like, "I'm not sure, I'm in, I'm in route, you know, LA traffic." So, I mean, but at the end of the day, like, I mean, affording your rent is, is gonna be a challenge.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  So you know, you can kind of gauge that based upon how much, how much, how many children you need to take based upon that alone. But it's a great way to supplement your income, you know, especially if you're already doing something on the side. Or if you don't have anything going on on the side, why not? If you don't have... Two hundred is better than zero. Yeah. Right? Absolutely. You have to start somewhere. But one thing I learned about licensing at this point, though, as long as you have less than four children, you're okay. You know, you could probably start off by watching just one child, right? And see how that works out. And then as you're working your way through the licensing process, that's perfectly legal to do one or two children. But once you have four plus, you definitely need to be licensed.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of the things we do with a lot of our directors is we look at how much their rent is, how much they want to earn. And then we help them think about how much to charge to make sure that they cover the costs of being able to operate their business.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  So one of the things that popped up to me is like, fair is not an option, right? I have a saying, there's no plan B, it's plan me. We'll make it happen, figure it out.

• 34:22Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  No matter what's popping. But this is actually a question for Ben. Do you think entrepreneurs are born or made?

• 34:32Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, I think, um, look, I think it's mostly made because nobody knows how to do it. You know, no, no, there, I've never met a natural who comes in and does everything right. You know, everybody comes in and does everything wrong. And then it's a matter of will. And what is true is you can't do it if you don't have the will and you need unbreakable will. But will and courage are things you develop. You know, you're not, you're not necessarily born courageous or like with extreme will. That's something that you can build in yourself. Really what it takes more than anything is you have the courage to not listen to the people that go, wow, that's the stupidest thing in the world.

• 35:16Ben Horowitz?

  You know, do you have the courage to deal with like, I could fail and those people are all going to be right? And how am I going to feel then? Like, all those kinds of things are always at you as an entrepreneur. But that, but nobody knows how to do it. Chris and I on the ride over, we're talking about like, yeah, I don't know a single entrepreneur that's done a good job at executive hiring. Like, who knows how to do that? That's not like, your mom doesn't teach you, this is how you hire a CFO.

• 35:43Ben Horowitz?

  It's a, it's a real thing.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  So what are your thoughts on this, Sheri?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  I kind of have a different perspective on that because I believe that there are certain children that I see in my program every day that just have a will.

• 35:54Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Just a will, like they just naturally are just go-getters.

• 35:58Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  You know, and then there's some kids you have to constantly push and you'd be their cheerleader the whole way through, you know, but you can't teach that.

• 36:06Ben Horowitz?

  Leaders and followers.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Chris, what's your experience been?

• 36:10Speaker 02

  I agree with both of you. I think a lot of this starts at a really young age. You know, there's a lot of studies that prove that grit, persistence, a number of these things are learned at a really, really young age and can be fostered in preschool. Developing those skills early on are really important to being an entrepreneur, but then, once you actually start that company, there's so much failure and so much learning that you have to go through to be able to be successful. And so I think a lot of, it's in you, but it's also, you have to learn a lot along the way.

• 36:43Ben Horowitz?

  All right, great. Well, I would love to thank our guests, Chris and Sheri, for a wonderful conversation. And thank you, Essence. Happy 25th anniversary.