Pod Insights A Bit of Optimism We All Get Cancelled One Day with Somebody Feed Phil’s Phil Rosenthal About this episode 🚨 Chomp Alert! 🚨
We saw your comments — loud and crunchy. Turns out not everyone wants front-row seats to mouth sounds. Who knew?
Skip to 29:29 to dodge most of the chewing. We promise, after that it’s just a few graceful nibbles of Basque cheesecake. 🧀🍰😅
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We turned the studio into a restaurant for the day—because when Phil Rosenthal’s in the house, you don’t just talk about food, you eat it!
Phil—the genius behind Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil—joins us for a heartfelt, hilarious meal where we dive into everything from sitcoms and food shows to gratitude, creativity, and finding joy in the everyday. Sure, we talk about the evolving world of television and the secrets to mastering great storytelling—but this episode isn’t just about food and show business.
Phil reveals the best life advice he’s ever received—and it might just change the way you live.
As lovers of the LA food scene, we also used this episode as a chance to highlight and support some of our favorite local restaurants. Because nothing pairs better with great conversation than a table full of incredible local bites.
Breakfast Burritos: Civil Coffee
Fried Chicken: Anajak Thai (surprise guest experience from owner and chef Justin Pichetrungsi)
Hand Rolls: The Joint
Liver Pâté: Petit Trois
Basque Cheesecake: Pasjoli
Watch the new season of Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix
Check out more of Phil’s work: philrosenthalworld.com
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This episode is brought to you by True Classic!
I really love their T-shirts, so we called them up and asked if they wanted to work together. And they said yes!
Check out their clothes at: trueclassictees.com
Transcript 13,285 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Simon Sinek? This episode is brought to you by True Classic. The way they became our sponsor is because I loved their T-shirts. And so we just called them up and asked them if they wanted to work together. And they said yes. So check out their clothes at trueclassic.com. You created Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil. It's always got some name in it.
0:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:22 Simon Sinek? So what would you name my show?
0:24 Speaker 01 Somebody Talk to Simon.
0:27 Simon Sinek? So lonely.
0:32 Simon Sinek? Before we turn on the cameras and the mics, I tell every guest who comes on the show that this is not like an interview show that they're used to. It's more like a conversation. I tell them to imagine that we're out for a meal and the people sitting next to us are eavesdropping on us because our conversation is better than theirs. Well, for this episode, we decided to do just that. Literally. As soon as I heard that Phil Rosenthal, the brilliant creator and executive producer behind Everybody Loves Raymond and the joyful, heartened face of Somebody Feed Phil was coming on the show, I wanted to give him food. So we turned our little podcast into an even littler restaurant.
1:13 Simon Sinek? Please pull up a chair at our table for the latest episode of Somebody Talk to Simon. I mean, a bit of optimism.
1:24 Simon Sinek? I warned you before we turned the cameras on, which is we have so much damn food that we brought.
1:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:29 Simon Sinek? Don't finish anything because we have to get through it all. And I haven't had breakfast, so I'm spacey.
1:34 Speaker 01 Great. I had a little protein drink, so that's...
1:37 Simon Sinek? You're hungry too.
1:38 Speaker 01 But...
1:39 Simon Sinek? Good.
1:39 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, yeah. But that's my secret, by the way. The number one question I get is how come I'm not fat? And it is one reason is I don't finish anything. If you see me eating like crazy on the show.
1:50 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:51 Speaker 01 I am, but I'm not really, unless it's the like most delicious thing I've ever had and I'm no, I'll never get to this part of Chang Mai again to have this bowl of cow soy, I'm finishing it. And I'm maybe ordering another one. If you're in a town that's famous for certain dishes.
2:08 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
2:08 Speaker 01 You want those dishes.
2:10 Simon Sinek? There's dishes.
2:10 Speaker 01 You have to.
2:11 Simon Sinek? Let's get our first dish out here. Let's get, let's get our breakfast dish out because we got, we got, we've got not just courses. We have breakfast, lunch and dinner.
2:20 Speaker 01 You really thought this out.
2:22 Simon Sinek? We have a lot of food. So what we decided to do is there's a bunch of great restaurants in Los Angeles, which is where you and I live.
2:27 Speaker 01 Listen, if you can't travel, live in L.A.
2:29 Simon Sinek? They live in L.A.
2:30 Speaker 01 The world is here.
2:31 Simon Sinek? And we have a bunch of great restaurants. And so we ordered like some of the dishes from some great places. Look at that. Bring it on in. Thank you, David. So I haven't, I love a breakfast burrito.
2:43 Speaker 01 Hi. I love a breakfast burrito too. It's one of my favorite things.
2:47 Simon Sinek? So I, I love a breakfast burrito. My favorite breakfast burrito in Los Angeles is from a place called Oaks Gourmet.
2:53 Speaker 01 Don't know it.
2:54 Simon Sinek? In Los Feliz. We'll go. It's, it's my favorite. But somebody recently recommended.
2:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:00 Simon Sinek? These, which is from a coffee joint called, I think it's called Civil Coffee or Civic Coffee, Civil Coffee. Civil Coffee.
3:05 Speaker 01 Civil Coffee.
3:06 Simon Sinek? I've never tried this burrito, so I have no idea. Highly recommended.
3:09 Speaker 01 Is that here in Sherman Oaks?
3:10 Simon Sinek? Yeah, it's not far. It's in Studio City. Anyway, there's cheese and egg.
3:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:15 Simon Sinek? And then bacon and cheese or bacon and egg.
3:18 Speaker 01 Wow, I'm trying cheese and egg first.
3:19 Simon Sinek? I'm going for bacon.
3:20 Speaker 01 Okay. Cheers, my friend. It's very good to see you.
3:23 Simon Sinek? This is good.
3:24 Speaker 01 Yep.
3:26 Simon Sinek? This is good. I will say this ranks up there is extremely good. It was like Oaks Gourmet. It's still my favorite breakfast burrito.
3:34 Speaker 01 All right. I'm happy to, happy to try that. Yeah. So no offense. I'm not finishing anything.
3:39 Simon Sinek? No, no, no. Taking bites.
3:41 Speaker 01 What made you want to start an eating show in the first place?
3:45 Simon Sinek? Other than the obvious, which is to get paid to travel around the world to eat. It sounds like a good gig.
3:51 Speaker 01 It's a scam.
3:54 Speaker 01 You talk to people who, leaders in business, they're not as honest as I am.
3:58 Simon Sinek? It's a scam. Right.
4:00 Speaker 01 It's a scam.
4:01 Simon Sinek? And what are you, seven season in?
4:03 Speaker 01 This coming up now is season eight.
4:05 Simon Sinek? Season eight. Did you imagine when you came up with the idea that it would get picked up for eight seasons?
4:10 Speaker 01 No, your help opened to fool one guy at a network.
4:15 Speaker 01 And maybe they'll let you film one. By the way, the first time we filmed one.
4:19 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
4:21 Speaker 01 I think it was Barcelona. We started on PBS. The first one we filmed was Barcelona. And I have my first scene, which is a meal.
4:31 Speaker 01 And the meal was so fantastic, I said, if we're canceled right now, die in you.
4:38 Simon Sinek? It's worth it.
4:38 Speaker 01 It was worth it. Everything I went through and it took 10 years to get the show.
4:43 Simon Sinek? How, what?
4:45 Speaker 01 Yes.
4:45 Simon Sinek? But hold on.
4:46 Speaker 01 This is today's, today's lesson.
4:48 Simon Sinek? There was precedent, there was precedent, like you had Bourdain, who did his cooking show and traveled around the world, he's like.
4:55 Speaker 01 But he was Anthony Bourdain, I mean, that, that was a sexy superstar, look at me. It wasn't an easy sell.
5:03 Simon Sinek? So I want to know, so, okay, so you, you, you had phone numbers because of Everyone Loves Raymond. So you know who to call and they'll take your call.
5:12 Speaker 01 They don't want that call. Hey, you know what I've got for you now? After having a somewhat successful sitcom, me as the host of a travel show. My own agents looked at me as if I pooped on the carpet. They didn't want to hear it.
5:27 Simon Sinek? Right.
5:27 Speaker 01 The reason I shifted gears that way is because after Everybody Loves Raymond was over, I had been there for nine years. The business changed greatly in those nine years. They, they didn't want that kind of show anymore. They wanted hip and edgy shows.
5:44 Simon Sinek? They were moving from Everyone Loves Raymond to something like Friends.
5:47 Speaker 01 Okay. They just wanted Friends.
5:49 Simon Sinek? Got it. They wanted that formula.
5:50 Speaker 01 They wanted young, hip.
5:53 Simon Sinek? Family sitcoms.
5:54 Speaker 01 Good looking, yes. And it's, you know, we had a hard time selling Raymond when we sold Raymond because it was already de classe. It wasn't, it's not sexy to people, the family sitcom. Although, if you look back at television comedy history, it's the building block of networks.
6:14 Simon Sinek? All in the family?
6:15 Speaker 01 All in the family, go back to I Love Lucy, a domestic. A Father Knows Best, Happy Days, The Honeymooners, domestic, not workplace, domestic, family sitcoms with kids or without kids.
6:28 Simon Sinek? Yep.
6:29 Speaker 01 Well, that's not what a young executive or even an old executive wants on their resume. Because that's not cool. And when they get fired from this job, they want a resume that says, I'm still relevant.
6:43 Simon Sinek? Right.
6:43 Speaker 01 I'm not doing old fashioned. Raymond was-
6:46 Simon Sinek? Even though the data shows- That's really funny.
6:49 Speaker 01 That it's always- It's so funny. A number one show.
6:53 Simon Sinek? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:54 Speaker 01 If it's done right.
6:54 Simon Sinek? If it's done right, of course.
6:56 Speaker 01 I distinctly remember wanting, in the age of Seinfeld and Friends, to do the opposite. Not even because that's all I could do, is that, because that's my wheelhouse. I wouldn't know how to do the hip and edgy-
7:12 Simon Sinek? Right.
7:12 Speaker 01 -young hip sitcom. But business-wise, why would you do something that's already exist- It's already there.
7:18 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
7:19 Speaker 01 Maybe you'll last a season or two and maybe you get a little luckier, but you're copying what's out there now.
7:24 Simon Sinek? Is that your personality? Are you a contrarian?
7:27 Speaker 01 No.
7:28 Simon Sinek? Okay, so it's, it's, that's funny.
7:36 Speaker 01 No, and I disagree with you completely.
7:38 Simon Sinek? So, you're not a contrarian, but you, it's for your own creative- Because doing nine years of a thing-
7:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:46 Simon Sinek? How do you keep? I mean, you're in the writer's room. How do you, how does it, how's that fresh after nine years?
7:52 Speaker 01 I mean, we could do a whole show about this, but I'll give you the short answer. If you sell something that's high concept, do you know what high concept-
8:02 Simon Sinek? Say, say more.
8:03 Speaker 01 Okay, high concept would be a show where we're from Mars, our family's from Mars, and we're gonna live on a street and pretend to be normal Americans.
8:14 Simon Sinek? Okay.
8:15 Speaker 01 That's a high-concept show. Now, with a high-concept show, they have to serve that premise every week.
8:20 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:21 Speaker 01 That would get boring and repetitive and can't last very long.
8:24 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:25 Speaker 01 Can last maybe a few seasons, tops.
8:27 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:28 Speaker 01 Because every week, oh no, they're gonna find out we're from Mars.
8:31 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:31 Speaker 01 So it's the same story practically.
8:33 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:34 Speaker 01 Yes, you can have little stories that weave in and out, but that main premise is gonna have to be served.
8:41 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:41 Speaker 01 Okay. You know what low concept is? Low concept is a guy who lives across the street from his parents with his family.
8:49 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:50 Speaker 01 That's very low concept.
8:51 Simon Sinek? It can go forever.
8:52 Speaker 01 And it's not hip and edgy, and it doesn't sell, because it doesn't sound like something novel.
8:57 Simon Sinek? Right.
8:57 Speaker 01 But in television, like in movies, like in books, like in anything we do in life, it's all about the execution.
9:04 Simon Sinek? Right.
9:04 Speaker 01 So if you execute that premise, the guy with his family who lives across the street from his parents- The possibilities of episodes are almost as endless as real life.
9:17 Simon Sinek? Right.
9:17 Speaker 01 And so if you worked for me, your job on Everybody Loves Raymond was to go home, get in a fight with your wife and come back in and tell me about it.
9:25 Simon Sinek? And that's. It's everyday life.
9:27 Speaker 01 Everyday life is infinite. The possibilities are infinite.
9:31 Simon Sinek? Do you know what I find?
9:32 Speaker 01 Or at least nine years.
9:33 Simon Sinek? Do you know what, at least nine years.
9:34 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:34 Simon Sinek? Do you know what I find so funny about this, which is, and it goes to the, what you said about the executive, who's making decisions whether they know it or not, or admit it or not.
9:42 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:42 Simon Sinek? They're making the decisions for their career, their reputation, their resume, not necessarily for the, for what people want.
9:48 Speaker 01 Took me a long time to learn that.
9:49 Simon Sinek? And if you think about it, like even the pitches you're talking about, which is, we, we have a show about people living normal lives, where they have fights with their spouses, and they have kids, and their kids are annoying.
9:58 Speaker 01 Yes.
9:59 Simon Sinek? We're selling shows for the pitch, the day of the meeting.
10:02 Speaker 01 Exactly.
10:02 Simon Sinek? Not for actual, the longevity or the ability to, to create great entertainment. And then you say, we have the, a great writers' room.
10:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:10 Simon Sinek? We've got some great, and that's where the magic happens, I'm assuming.
10:13 Speaker 01 I hear ideas all the time.
10:14 Simon Sinek? It's just a package, right?
10:15 Speaker 01 The concept, any idea is valid.
10:17 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
10:18 Speaker 01 It's the execution.
10:18 Simon Sinek? Look, we just ate two breakfast burritos.
10:20 Speaker 01 Yeah. We love a breakfast burrito. You and I both admit, it's a great thing. It's breakfast that you're holding in your hand. It, we love the tortilla. We love everything about it, but what's in it?
10:31 Simon Sinek? That makes the difference.
10:32 Speaker 01 Right. Why do you love the one from Oaks more than the one we just ate?
10:35 Simon Sinek? It has, because it has a fried egg in it where it actually has gooey yolk, which is unheard of in a breakfast burrito. There you go. That's one of the reasons.
10:42 Speaker 01 I've had it that way, and it, I don't know why more people don't do it.
10:47 Simon Sinek? It's actually tastes better.
10:48 Speaker 01 Because there's extra sauce.
10:51 Simon Sinek? It's actually, it comes with free sauce.
10:52 Speaker 01 It comes with, yes.
10:53 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
10:54 Speaker 01 So that's, we're the same, but that's everything.
10:59 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
10:59 Speaker 01 What's in the burrito is everything.
11:02 Simon Sinek? Yeah, right.
11:03 Speaker 01 Not that it's a burrito, but tell me what's in it. Tell me how you make it.
11:07 Simon Sinek? Okay, so as you and I are talking, we have more food coming in.
11:11 Speaker 01 Here comes, oh.
11:12 Simon Sinek? Now, you may know.
11:13 Speaker 01 This is dangerous.
11:14 Simon Sinek? This is, don't tell me this is, this is from Anajak Thai.
11:17 Speaker 01 This is one of the best. Oh, my buddy, Justin.
11:23 Speaker 01 Everybody, this is Justin. He's a genius.
11:26 Speaker 02 You've never met Simon?
11:27 Simon Sinek? No, we've never met.
11:28 Speaker 02 No.
11:29 Speaker 01 Well, this is nice.
11:30 Simon Sinek? Justin's... Well, as we should tell everybody, this is from Anajak Thai. This is some of the best fried chicken in the world. Anajak Thai is a very hard to get into restaurant in Los Angeles. That's closed on the day we're shooting, but you brought us food anyway. Thank you very, very much. Thanks for bringing it by. I didn't even know you were gonna be here. So nice to meet you.
11:46 Speaker 02 Just wanted to say hello.
11:47 Simon Sinek? So kind.
11:48 Speaker 02 Friend here.
11:48 Simon Sinek? Listen.
11:49 Speaker 02 Enjoy.
11:49 Simon Sinek? Not only is this some of the best fried chicken in the world, it will be featured at my daughter's wedding. You're having Anajak Thai at a wedding? Yes. God bless you.
11:59 Speaker 02 Love you.
12:00 Speaker 01 Well, you.
12:01 Simon Sinek? Alright, I'm coming in. It's perfect. It's perfect.
12:06 Speaker 01 That's good.
12:06 Simon Sinek? Yeah. This is really good fried chicken. I only got... I've only been to Anajak Thai once. Mainly because I couldn't get in.
12:14 Speaker 01 Well, this is your... Not only did it come to you, the guy came to you.
12:18 Simon Sinek? The guy, the guy who is Anajak Thai.
12:21 Speaker 01 Why did Justin come?
12:21 Simon Sinek? I don't know. That was a surprise.
12:23 Speaker 01 Now he's gone.
12:24 Simon Sinek? I never met him. I didn't know he was coming. So that was a real treat. We were talking about what I think's so interesting about this. This idea of the execution. You're 100% right, but nobody sells the execution. They always sell...
12:37 Speaker 01 You can't.
12:38 Simon Sinek? They always sell... How... But it's everything. It's our resumes. It's just, it's not just creative products and making TV shows.
12:45 Speaker 01 But that doesn't guarantee execution either.
12:47 Simon Sinek? But how do we know? How do we know? I mean, you want to take, you want to take, take a...
12:53 Speaker 01 That's the bet people make, right?
12:54 Simon Sinek? Exactly.
12:55 Speaker 01 Which is, I show you my resume and you're gonna take an educated guess.
12:57 Simon Sinek? I went on a tour of Apple.
12:59 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:00 Simon Sinek? The Apple historian is the guy who took me around.
13:03 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:04 Simon Sinek? And he was saying, one of the cultural things that Steve Jobs built into this place
13:09 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:10 Simon Sinek? was, nobody cares what you've done. They care what you're gonna do.
13:14 Speaker 01 Right.
13:14 Simon Sinek? It's all about future.
13:15 Speaker 01 Right.
13:16 Simon Sinek? And he said that they'd hire these fancy people from Facebook or Google, these fancy engineers who may have worked on some famous fancy product. And they'd walk around, like they walk on water and like, "Do you know who I am? Do you know what I've done in my career?"
13:27 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:28 Simon Sinek? And invariably, somebody will say to them in a meeting, "We don't care what you've done. We care what you're gonna do." And I think the idea of people living on their past accomplishments.
13:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
13:38 Simon Sinek? And this is sort of, because, let's be honest.
13:40 Speaker 01 Yes.
13:40 Simon Sinek? You could have, given what you did with Raymond... You could have absolutely showed up and said, "We're gonna do another Raymond-type show of a family." And you would have been, you could have sold that the next day, because you've got a quote-unquote, "got the proven track record."
13:53 Speaker 01 You wanna know the truth?
13:54 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
13:55 Speaker 01 Had a spin-off of Raymond ready, ready to go, because my, I love the writers so much in that writers' room, and I know, knew that this was an exceptional team.
14:04 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
14:04 Speaker 01 These are some of the best comedy writers in the world.
14:08 Simon Sinek? Mm-hmm.
14:09 Speaker 01 How do we stay together? We loved each other. We know the show has run its course.
14:14 Simon Sinek? Mm-hmm.
14:15 Speaker 01 But now, how do we drive the car over here?
14:19 Simon Sinek? Right.
14:20 Speaker 01 We had a spin-off already, featuring the brother, the brother's wife, and the brother's wife's family. Now, we're gonna shift gears and do another family in a different situation.
14:32 Simon Sinek? Mm-hmm.
14:33 Speaker 01 The brother's wife's family, by the way, was Chris Elliott, Georgia Engel, and Fred Willard. Couldn't be better.
14:41 Simon Sinek? Great cast.
14:42 Speaker 01 They were on the show 30 times, so proven.
14:45 Simon Sinek? Right.
14:46 Speaker 01 They said no, because...
14:48 Simon Sinek? The studio said no.
14:49 Speaker 01 The network?
14:50 Simon Sinek? The network said no.
14:50 Speaker 01 Because now, these people, this is not the kind of show we wanna do anymore. Everyone in your cast is 40 or older. We're looking for young.
15:04 Speaker 01 They said no.
15:05 Simon Sinek? So it didn't matter?
15:07 Speaker 01 Didn't matter. So, I tried to write another pilot. No! My sensibility was not...
15:14 Simon Sinek? There wasn't even the proven track record?
15:15 Speaker 01 The thing they wanted, right. Didn't matter.
15:16 Simon Sinek? Didn't matter.
15:19 Speaker 01 And my agent said, "They like you, just be more hip and edgy, that's all." I said, "Well, you got the right guy, I'm Mr. Hip and Edgy."
15:27 Speaker 01 Right? And it is funny.
15:30 Simon Sinek? Is it rude to laugh when somebody says, "I'm hip and edgy"?
15:33 Speaker 01 It's, uh, I do these live shows, and I tell the story, and I get laughs. I say, "You know, I think they said sexy, and my wife fell off the couch."
15:45 Speaker 01 So after years of struggling
15:49 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
15:49 Speaker 01 against this tidal wave of hip and edgy.
15:52 Simon Sinek? Right.
15:53 Speaker 01 I said, wait a minute. What about this dream that I have to do this? I'm gonna beat your head against the wall anyway of show business. Pick a spot in the wall. That you might love.
16:03 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
16:05 Speaker 01 And so I did. And then convincing people was another story.
16:09 Simon Sinek? How many years after Raymond did you start pitching the?
16:13 Speaker 01 I would say about four.
16:14 Simon Sinek? So you?
16:15 Speaker 01 So I'd say about three or four years of struggle. And then a whole new struggle. Now, I did other things in between, but always I was driving towards this. And then I sold it finally to PBS. My agents didn't even want me to go to.
16:32 Simon Sinek? So what was the reason they said yes?
16:34 Speaker 01 I sold it with one lung. I said, I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything.
16:42 Simon Sinek? Got it.
16:42 Speaker 01 And they said, we've been looking for a food and travel show with humor for years.
16:46 Simon Sinek? Right.
16:46 Speaker 01 But I wasn't allowed to go to PBS by my agents because they said, there's no money at PBS. That turns out to be true, but they had money for six episodes. And we did them. And then here came Netflix.
16:59 Simon Sinek? Oh, so Netflix saw it.
17:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:00 Simon Sinek? And came after you.
17:01 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. They were just kind of starting.
17:04 Simon Sinek? What I'm trying to get out of your story is where the lessons are for how people live regular lives. Not everybody's gonna be selling TV shows or is necessarily in show business. But the idea, I mean, you've said it. If you're gonna have to beat your head against a wall.
17:15 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
17:16 Simon Sinek? Pick something you like doing and beat your head against that wall.
17:18 Speaker 01 The best advice I ever got from anybody was from Ed Weinberger, a great show creator and showrunner. Mary Tyler Moore Show and Taxi and great classic sitcoms that I idolized. As I'm writing the pilot for Everybody Loves Raymond, I ask him for advice. He says this. Do the show you want to do because in the end they're gonna cancel you anyway. That's a life lesson. Ah, we all get canceled one day.
17:46 Simon Sinek? We all get canceled.
17:46 Speaker 01 So live the life you want to live.
17:48 Simon Sinek? It's the, um, thank you, thank you. Okay, so this one-
17:51 Speaker 01 More food!
17:52 Simon Sinek? More food. We got lots of food. So this one's great. So there is a place, thank you, David.
17:56 Speaker 01 Oh.
17:57 Simon Sinek? There is a place on Ventura called The Joint. Do you know The Joint?
18:01 Speaker 01 Nope.
18:02 Simon Sinek? Okay, The Joint is, ah, there's our nori, our seaweed. So The Joint is the best fishmonger in Los Angeles. Like, if you're ever cooking at home and you want to make fish, go get their dry-aged aura salmon. Here's how good it is. As I'm preparing to cook it, I'm eating it off the fish raw, because it's that good, right?
18:22 Speaker 01 Sushi-grade.
18:23 Simon Sinek? And they just recently started offering hand rolls at The Joint. It's a fishmonger and coffee shop. I know, what a combination.
18:30 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:30 Simon Sinek? Anyway, so you can now get hand rolls there. So they put together a bento box. You can get it to go. This is how it comes. We're supposed to make our own hand rolls.
18:37 Speaker 01 Great.
18:37 Simon Sinek? I'm keeping on brand. I have Star Wars chopsticks for us.
18:40 Speaker 01 Oh my god. Oh my god, they light up. Yeah, are we gonna duel?
18:45 Simon Sinek? I mean-
18:45 Speaker 01 I love it.
18:46 Simon Sinek? You know-
18:47 Speaker 01 This is fantastic.
18:48 Simon Sinek? So you can be a good guy or a bad guy.
18:50 Speaker 01 I'd be a little of both.
18:51 Simon Sinek? A little of both, there you go. Good and bad.
18:53 Speaker 01 Vroom.
18:54 Simon Sinek? And I think this is, this was Samuel L. Jackson was the only one with a purple one. And I think the reason he asked for a purple one is so he would stand out in the scene.
19:01 Speaker 01 Also, purple's cool, and he's cool.
19:04 Simon Sinek? Yeah, so these chopsticks are incredibly hard to use. They're pretty but impractical.
19:08 Speaker 01 Well, you're, you're free to use fingers, too.
19:10 Simon Sinek? Free to use fingers. I'm gonna just use my fingers, because I'm the one eating it.
19:13 Speaker 01 But I have to try the-
19:15 Simon Sinek? I've never made a hand roll, for the record, but we're making them now. Well done. Food going everywhere. What I might do-
19:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:25 Simon Sinek? Is just eat some of this.
19:26 Speaker 01 Yes, good idea.
19:27 Simon Sinek? Instead of giving it a hand roll, because it looks so good. I love sushi.
19:30 Speaker 01 Me too.
19:30 Simon Sinek? Mmm, that is gorgeous.
19:32 Speaker 01 Have you been to Japan?
19:33 Simon Sinek? I, four times. I, I love it. It's my favorite place in the world. Did you have, did you have the egg salad sandwich at 7-Eleven?
19:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
19:39 Simon Sinek? Best egg salad sandwich of my life.
19:41 Speaker 01 So last season, we did Kyoto, and it blew me-
19:44 Simon Sinek? Did you go, okay Kyoto.
19:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
19:48 Simon Sinek? Did you go to, there's a restaurant in the woods?
19:51 Speaker 01 Nope.
19:52 Simon Sinek? Oh, I wish I talked to you before you went to Kyoto.
19:54 Speaker 01 I wish you did, but I'll be back because it got in deep with me. It really had a profound impact on me Kyoto. I thought it was spectacular.
20:03 Simon Sinek? And there's a great pizza place, some of the best pizza I've had in my life was in Kyoto. Yes, I went there, it was incredible.
20:09 Speaker 01 Great.
20:10 Simon Sinek? There's a restaurant, it's in the middle of the woods, it's a tofu restaurant, but you sit on the floor, very Japanese.
20:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:15 Simon Sinek? And literally you tell the taxi, take me here, they drop you off in a parking lot and you're like, well, where the hell is the restaurant?
20:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:21 Simon Sinek? And you put it in your phone and your GPS and you realize you're nowhere near it. And you start walking through the woods. How is that?
20:28 Speaker 01 Amazing. So fresh and clean.
20:31 Simon Sinek? And they make them for you when you go.
20:33 Speaker 01 Wow.
20:33 Simon Sinek? But my god, I love this place.
20:36 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
20:40 Speaker 01 Oh, just need a minute. Crispy.
20:43 Simon Sinek? Everything's, everything's nice. So you walk through the woods, you're literally walk, you're like, where the hell is this, you're in the middle of trees everywhere. And then in the distance, you see a little house. And you're like, I think that's it. And you go to the house, the door opens, you take your shoes off. It's the restaurant, you sit in the woods. It's the most magical meal.
21:04 Speaker 01 Japan is magical.
21:05 Simon Sinek? Japan is magical.
21:06 Speaker 01 They know how to live.
21:07 Simon Sinek? And they don't invent everything, they perfect everything.
21:09 Speaker 01 That's right.
21:10 Simon Sinek? They didn't invent pizza, but my god, it was the best pizza I've ever had in my life.
21:12 Speaker 01 Whatever they focus on, they make perfect and beautiful. When I first got to Tokyo, I thought, I'm in a pinball machine, I don't get it. I'm walking outside, I'm in like some kind of Times Square. And then I get on the subway and go forty minutes, I'm in another Times Square. I don't understand, it's like New York Times, Los Angeles.
21:30 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
21:31 Speaker 01 You can't believe the density and the scope and the, it was overwhelming and I understood lost in translation where you want to hide in your hotel room.
21:39 Simon Sinek? That movie is so good.
21:41 Speaker 01 At that feeling.
21:42 Simon Sinek? Capturing that feeling.
21:43 Speaker 01 However, first restaurant I went into.
21:48 Speaker 01 Calm, serene, beautiful, magical stuff starts coming to the table. And you're, you're transported and you start to get it really quick. That they can't control the outside, but what they can control, they make perfect and beautiful.
22:01 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
22:02 Speaker 01 My joke is if you go to the pharmacy and buy a pack of gum, they wrap it for you as if it's for your hundredth birthday. And it's just a great way to be. The other like mind blowing lesson I got was there's little kids on the street. You've even seen videos of this, three year olds going to the store for their parents. Going out into the street, like imagine Ventura Boulevard, the three year olds walking alone, going into the store, buying something, coming back on the street alone. How is this possible? Oh, somebody said, uh, the community cares for the children.
22:37 Speaker 01 I'm like, what? What?
22:39 Simon Sinek? But we've forgotten that as a society. We've forgotten that as a society, which is, you know, if you go to like lower income neighborhoods. Everybody sits on the front porch and they raise each other's kids. And then as soon as you start accumulating any kind of wealth, you move to the in middle class and the suburbs and above. Everybody moves to the back of the house and you keep your own kids separated from everybody. And there's something to be said for like, and I've been to like slums like Daravi in the middle of Mumbai. Yes. This har- this large slum with a million people.
23:09 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:09 Simon Sinek? In one square mile, whatever it is.
23:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:12 Simon Sinek? And kids are running around and they're safe because everybody's looking out for everybody's kids and that's why it works. But what like, like it's.
23:20 Speaker 01 We forgot how to care for each other.
23:22 Simon Sinek? Care for each other and we put walls up in front of you, you know, walls up and in, I mean, but this is city living, right? I mean, that's what, that's what urban living is, which is you live in your apartment in New York City or any city.
23:35 Speaker 01 And you have five deadbolts on the door.
23:36 Simon Sinek? And you have five deadbolts and you don't know your neighbors, even though literally you share a hallway with them, forget about a street.
23:43 Speaker 01 I live in a very nice neighborhood and people don't come out of their house there.
23:48 Simon Sinek? I, I make a point when somebody moves into our neighborhood to go knock on my door and say hello. And it's a very simple reason. It's like all of us around our, my, where I live.
23:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:57 Simon Sinek? Like somebody will call me.
23:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:59 Simon Sinek? And be like, hey, there's a package that's been outside your front door for two days. Do you want me to go get it? I, I, I'm guessing you're not home, you know? That idea as opposed to having it just sit there and like somebody who's scoping the house, you know, like the, the, just people looking out for each other. It's just a nice thing. It's what it should be.
24:15 Speaker 01 I want to live it and we create the world we want to live in because the world exists. But the way you want to use it, the way you want to execute it, it's up to you.
24:26 Simon Sinek? Okay, so Netflix picks up your show from PBS, which is a dream.
24:30 Speaker 01 Dream.
24:31 Simon Sinek? They say, you're in the big leagues now.
24:34 Speaker 01 They actually asked me, had the nicest meeting I've ever had. I've been doing show business for thirty, thirty-five years. Nicest meeting ever. Imagine this, you go to a meeting and they say, is there anything you didn't have over there at the last place that you'd like to have? Who says that to you?
24:52 Simon Sinek? Wow.
24:53 Speaker 01 I said, I'd like a theme song.
24:55 Simon Sinek? Is that what you asked for?
24:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, they said, you can have a theme song. So I called this band, Lake Street Dive, who I'd met years before. God, I like them. I said, would you want to do a theme song for a TV show? They said, your TV show? I said, yeah. They said, sure. So I wrote some lyrics and sent to them and they wrote some additional, better lyrics. And this catchy tune that nobody skips on the, uh, on the show. And it's become my favorite song.
25:20 Simon Sinek? And what you said before, which is this idea that, that is advice you got, make the show you want because it's going to get canceled anyway.
25:26 Speaker 01 That's right.
25:26 Simon Sinek? So whether you get one years or nine years, you're going to have a fun time doing it because it's the show you want to do, which really is just a microcosm of what life is, which is we're all going to die. There's one thing that we can, I can guarantee is we're all going to die. But the problem is, is life, we hope, is long. And so we don't live our life with that sense of make the thing you want because we think, oh, I'll, I'll get to it or I need to do this responsible thing first.
25:47 Speaker 01 Why else are we here?
25:48 Simon Sinek? Why else are we here?
25:49 Speaker 01 If we don't, if we, we can't know the meaning of life, I mean, we could spend our lives studying that.
25:55 Simon Sinek? Right.
25:57 Speaker 01 But I think without any studying, I think we're supposed to enjoy ourselves.
26:02 Simon Sinek? Yeah. Was Raymond your big break?
26:04 Speaker 01 Yes.
26:05 Simon Sinek? So what were you doing before?
26:06 Speaker 01 Well, I would say big break would be your first job in television writing at all.
26:09 Simon Sinek? Which was?
26:10 Speaker 01 Uh, the Robert Mitchum sitcom in nineteen eighty-nine.
26:13 Simon Sinek? Oh, my God.
26:14 Speaker 01 Yes, that's the right response. Yeah.
26:16 Simon Sinek? I didn't.
26:17 Speaker 01 Terrible.
26:17 Simon Sinek? Know Robert Mitchum had a sitcom.
26:19 Speaker 01 He shouldn't have. That lasted seven episodes.
26:22 Simon Sinek? Okay.
26:23 Speaker 01 But what you can learn from your first job in the field, you can learn from any job in the field. Right? So I learned what not to do. I learned how bad it can be.
26:32 Simon Sinek? What, what didn't work there? What was the big lesson?
26:34 Speaker 01 The premise, number one, you don't put Robert Mitchum in a sitcom. It doesn't belong, but the, the story behind that was he had been in, in a TV movie. When they, remember TV movies?
26:43 Simon Sinek? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:43 Speaker 01 And this genre of TV movie is called a wormadie. A war- warmedy.
26:49 Simon Sinek? Warmedy.
26:50 Speaker 01 Warm feeling. Not a comedy, not a drama, a warmedy.
26:55 Simon Sinek? That's terrible.
26:55 Speaker 01 So a lukewarm bath of shit.
26:57 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
26:59 Speaker 01 Just nothing.
27:00 Simon Sinek? This, I don't know what this is. This is a surprise.
27:03 Speaker 01 Hello.
27:04 Simon Sinek? Oh, my God. Okay, this is totally, I don't know what this is. This is my surprise. This is chicken liver mousse. Wink, wink. I don't know where this is from. I don't know anything about this.
27:13 Speaker 01 This looks familiar. I know this.
27:16 Simon Sinek? Why do I know this? You gotta tell us where it's from.
27:19 Speaker 01 Petit Toit.
27:20 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
27:20 Speaker 01 Little Lafeb is the great French chef who opened Petit Toit. You've been to Petit Toit, no?
27:24 Simon Sinek? No.
27:24 Speaker 01 So he's, he's a brilliant French chef.
27:27 Simon Sinek? Okay.
27:27 Speaker 01 He's a friend of mine. We filmed with him when we did an LA episode. We didn't have this.
27:37 Simon Sinek? Wow.
27:40 Simon Sinek? I mean, so, wow.
27:42 Speaker 01 You and I grew up with chicken liver. Red wine mixed in with this.
27:46 Simon Sinek? It's very different than my mother's.
27:47 Speaker 01 Beautiful sauteed onions underneath.
27:49 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
27:50 Speaker 01 Fresh as bread.
27:51 Simon Sinek? And when you get to about here, about three quarters in, that's where you have the heart attack.
27:57 Speaker 01 But if you're gonna go, it's a good way to go.
28:00 Simon Sinek? So you have your big break with your seven-episode dramedy, warmedy?
28:08 Speaker 01 Yes, right. And, and I, I start to, first of all, I'm thrilled because I'm splitting a salary. I, I had a partner at the time, and that's a very good way to break in, is you, you have a partner. And what, the reason you're attractive to them is because you're two for one. They pay one salary that you guys split. So I'm splitting a thousand dollars a week. I'm getting five hundred dollars a week. And within a few weeks, I'm a thousandaire.
28:36 Speaker 01 And I think this is the greatest thing because I went from eating tuna fish for dinner to eating whatever I wanted. And I can afford the rent and I can, now, you know, I get, that gets me another job. Jobs get jobs.
28:48 Simon Sinek? Right.
28:48 Speaker 01 Now I've had the experience. Now, you know, if they like you at all, you're, you're welcome. And after a few years, now my partner and I don't need to be partners anymore. Nothing, nothing personal.
28:57 Simon Sinek? Right.
28:58 Speaker 01 It's just.
28:58 Simon Sinek? It's like your careers are now solid enough that you can go do your own thing.
29:01 Speaker 01 Let's make one salary for one person. That'd be good. And I get a tape of a comedian named Ray Romano.
29:07 Simon Sinek? Uh, where was Ray in his, in his career?
29:09 Speaker 01 He had been a stand-up comedian. He'd been working 12 years to try to get on David Letterman's show. And he finally gets on. And from that one six-minute appearance, Letterman says, there should be a show for this Ray Romano. There should be a sitcom. And Letterman had a producing deal with CBS. Now, the way it works in Hollywood is comedians and their people start looking for writers to create shows for their clients, for the comedian. And writers are just looking for comedic talent to write for. So you take a meeting over lunch. Usually, we met at Arts Deli on Ventura Boulevard, where every sandwich is a work of art.
29:47 Speaker 01 And, uh, he had, you know, a lot of stories about his family because I just asked him, "Tell me about yourself, where you come from?" And he just said, "I got twin boys and an older daughter. My family lives close by and they're always bothering me. My brother is older and he's a police sergeant and he lives with them. He's divorced. He's jealous of me. He saw an award that I won for stand-up and he said, 'Never ends for Raymond. Everybody loves Raymond.'" And I said, "Well, it doesn't seem like there's anything there we can use." No, but I thought, "That's a good place to start." I didn't know if he could act even.
30:24 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
30:24 Speaker 01 Right? He wasn't an actor.
30:26 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
30:27 Speaker 01 So make him close to himself. And I saw this as a vehicle for all the stuff I wanted to do.
30:33 Simon Sinek? Right.
30:34 Speaker 01 Family. What I didn't know about those characters, I'm putting in my characters. There's a lot of my parents in those parents.
30:39 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
30:40 Speaker 01 There's a lot of my wife in that wife. There's a lot of me in Raymond.
30:43 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
30:44 Speaker 01 And the situations. And I write this pilot and I use a real thing in my life that I gave my parents Fruit of the Month Club. And they acted as if I sent them a box of heads from a murderer. "Why did you do this to us? There's so much fruit. I can't talk anymore. There's too much fruit in the house." So I put that in the show. That's the scene they tell me that got us on the air. Why? Because it was very specific and I learned a great lesson. I thought you would laugh at that because you'd go, oh, look how crazy Ray's parents are in that scene.
31:15 Simon Sinek? Right.
31:16 Speaker 01 No, your parents are crazy too. You're related to it. And the lesson is, the more specific you get.
31:22 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
31:23 Speaker 01 Not just in writing, but in everything in life. The more specific you get, and you're cooking.
31:27 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
31:29 Speaker 01 The more universal it becomes. The more people you hit, because we all deal in specificities. So even if there's a crazy thing about you, that is not something I do. I'm gonna relate to it because I do a crazy thing too.
31:43 Simon Sinek? Oh, this is so good, because we try and make things general to have mass appeal.
31:47 Speaker 01 Always fails.
31:48 Simon Sinek? Always fails because it ends up appealing, or people can find no relevance of themselves.
31:53 Speaker 01 It's weak.
31:53 Simon Sinek? It's weak. But if you, and you know what it is? There's an irony in this, which is the specific, the more specific you are.
31:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
32:00 Simon Sinek? The more specific you are, it's kinda like people who are bad listeners.
32:04 Speaker 01 Okay.
32:05 Simon Sinek? Right? Or, or fortune tellers, if you're into that. Right?
32:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:09 Simon Sinek? People who are bad listeners, which is, you're on a date.
32:11 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
32:12 Simon Sinek? And somebody says, oh, my parents sent me this Fruit of the Month Club and it's driving me crazy.
32:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
32:19 Simon Sinek? And you're like, oh, your parents, my parents sent me that. And it's, you're talking, you're competing in specific stories.
32:25 Speaker 01 Exactly. But you're relating.
32:26 Simon Sinek? But you're relating because the feeling that comes from the story is the same.
32:29 Speaker 01 Is the same.
32:29 Simon Sinek? And so the specificity is, is a Trojan horse that allows somebody to find their specificity. But the, what is general and relatable are the feelings that go along with the stories.
32:40 Speaker 01 Exactly.
32:40 Simon Sinek? But this, but you're, to your point, the more specific the story, the specific is the story.
32:44 Speaker 01 So that fried, that fried chicken is.
32:46 Simon Sinek? That is genius.
32:46 Speaker 01 That is delicious in a specific way. Not in a general bland way, in a very specific way.
32:52 Simon Sinek? And one of the things we haven't done is talked about the specificity of why we like the chicken liver. Which is there's nostalgia.
33:00 Speaker 01 Number one.
33:00 Simon Sinek? If you, if, chicken liver is a nostalgic thing.
33:03 Speaker 01 And then it's specifically this guy's treatment of it, with the red wine, the chives on top. The, the beautiful bread, the beautiful sauteed onions underneath. Make it delicious in a way that.
33:14 Simon Sinek? It makes it, it makes it a more, as if you can't make chicken liver mousse richer, he made it richer.
33:21 Speaker 01 Absolutely. Well, that's a French influence. And we, we appreciate it.
33:25 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
33:25 Speaker 01 You can, it's hard to argue, that's the best chicken liver I've ever had.
33:28 Simon Sinek? My mother's is good. My mother, my mother's an amazing cook. We were spoiled as kids.
33:34 Speaker 01 I was not.
33:35 Simon Sinek? We were spoiled. My mother was such an amazing cook. And she would experiment sometimes. Oh, I know what's coming now. Okay, I.
33:42 Speaker 01 You're killing me.
33:48 Simon Sinek? I invited Ryan Bartlett, the founder of our sponsor, True Classic, to sit down for a conversation. We call this an ad with authenticity. One of the things I like about you and your company, which I think most people don't know, is how generous you guys are. You don't advertise your giving. It's not a thing you do for stunts or public relations. You are generous because you want to do good. I know this because my family, we volunteer for an organization. And we show up and there's a bunch of True Classic t-shirts being given out to the homeless. You just send them six pallets of t-shirts. There's no virtue signaling about, look how nice we are and you should be nice too. And, you know, buy one from us and we'll give one away.
34:32 Simon Sinek? You just quietly get it done. And it's one of the most attractive things about you as an entrepreneur and as a human being.
34:37 Speaker 03 Thank you. I appreciate that. For a long time, I never wanted to talk about any of it because to me, it felt gross to put it out there to the world. And it always felt very fake when I would see businesses just kind of checking the box of, this is our mission and we help the ocean and the end. I don't want to be that. I want to be the people that show up on demand for people. If there's a crisis, I want to be the one that they call and say, hey, we lost everything. Can you help us out? I'm like, of course. That's exactly what we're here to do. Not just some arbitrary organization that we're going to donate to. I want to make true impact for people right when they need it. There was a tornado last year in Nebraska. We sent a bunch of stuff, like just always things that are popping up. I'm jumping on them. And I'm making sure the team reacts to them too.
35:20 Speaker 03 If they hear something or overhear a customer lost everything, we're going way overboard for them. We're sending them stuff that isn't even t-shirts sometimes. We're just sending them things that they need. It's so magical for them that a company is thinking that far for them.
35:41 Simon Sinek? This I'm very excited about. This is the only one we've gotten plates.
35:44 Speaker 01 Wow.
35:45 Simon Sinek? So, um, uh, my mother's an amazing cook and I remember like, we were so spoiled, the food was so good.
35:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:51 Simon Sinek? We didn't know that as kids, we just ate. It's just dinner. And then we'd go to friends' houses and we'd be like, "This is your dinner?" Like, like, just like, this is, oh. And then we start to realize like, mom's a great cook.
36:03 Speaker 01 Oh, we're lucky.
36:04 Simon Sinek? Yeah. It's like, my parents had a marriage that was far from perfect.
36:11 Speaker 01 Holy crap, this is a Basque cheesecake.
36:14 Simon Sinek? It is.
36:14 Speaker 01 One of our, uh, one of the places we go in season eight is San Sebastian and the Basque Country.
36:21 Simon Sinek? You've done it already? You went there already?
36:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. Have you been there?
36:24 Simon Sinek? I have never.
36:25 Speaker 01 Oh, well, if you like this little treat, I think you're gonna love going there.
36:29 Simon Sinek? This is a great story.
36:29 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:30 Simon Sinek? Have, this is the Basque cheesecake from Pajolli in Santa Monica. Have you been there?
36:34 Speaker 01 Yes, I've been there, but I haven't had their best.
36:35 Simon Sinek? Okay, so I'm gonna tell you, now I'm gonna tell you the story behind this cheesecake.
36:38 Speaker 01 That's beautiful.
36:39 Simon Sinek? Okay, so my friend, Will Godera, who I think you know, uh, he was the former owner of Levin Madison Park.
36:45 Speaker 01 Oh, absolutely.
36:46 Simon Sinek? So Will's a foodie, right?
36:48 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:48 Simon Sinek? To say the least.
36:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:49 Simon Sinek? Will and I are having dinner and he says, "We're doing Bang Bang tonight."
36:53 Speaker 01 Two dinners.
36:54 Simon Sinek? So Bang Bang is, we had appetizers in one restaurant, main course in another restaurant, dessert in another restaurant.
36:59 Speaker 01 That's Bang Bang Bang.
37:01 Simon Sinek? That's Bang Bang Bang. So we, we moved, and by the way, the main course was Wovo, just that night.
37:05 Speaker 01 Nice.
37:06 Simon Sinek? Okay, so we're sitting at Wovo and he says, "I know where we're going for dessert. We're going to Pajolli."
37:14 Speaker 01 Great.
37:15 Simon Sinek? They have this Basque cheesecake and way it happens, two chefs went on, went on vacation.
37:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:20 Simon Sinek? To the Basque region.
37:21 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:21 Simon Sinek? And they tried this Basque cheesecake and they competed, just for, as a friendly bet, as chefs do, just for fun. Who could figure out?
37:29 Speaker 01 Yes, good.
37:30 Simon Sinek? That recipe.
37:31 Speaker 01 Great.
37:32 Simon Sinek? So the guy who owns the French restaurant figured it out. He, he won the little friendly contest.
37:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:38 Simon Sinek? So he's figured out the recipe for this amazing cheesecake. The problem is, he has a French restaurant. There is literally nothing in that restaurant that is not French. He cannot serve a Spanish dessert in a French restaurant. So what he does is, every night, they made one cheesecake. And if the staff liked you, they gave you a slice. You couldn't order it? You couldn't, they didn't charge you for it? And if you saw somebody get in, like, could I have a slice? They go, no.
38:06 Speaker 01 Oh.
38:07 Simon Sinek? So because Will's in the restaurant business, he says to me, this is one of the top five desserts I've had in my life. He says to me, and because he's in the restaurant business, he calls up his friend who owns the restaurant and says, do you have any cheesecake left? He says, we have one slice left. Will says, hold it for us. We show up, we drink way too much, whatever it's called, chartreuse.
38:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:24 Simon Sinek? And they, they, it was a lot. And then we eat the cheesecake.
38:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:29 Simon Sinek? It's one of the top five desserts I've ever had in my life.
38:32 Speaker 01 And it's here.
38:33 Simon Sinek? And here it is.
38:34 Speaker 01 Oh, man.
38:34 Simon Sinek? Okay. So there's only one more funny story to share. So you remember, you can't buy it, you can't order it, you can't get it. So I, uh, I'm on a date and I say to the girl, I got a surprise for you.
38:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:47 Simon Sinek? And I take her to Pajoli and we sit at the counter. And I sort of lean in to the, to the waiter and sort of put my hand up as if I'm sort of like, I've got, I was like, hey, uh, is, uh, is the chef here? He goes, no, he's not here today. He's like, and I'm sort of like trying to make is like, maybe, maybe he knows who I am. Like, maybe we can do this. And I say, um, any chance you can, uh, get a slice of cheesecake? He goes, uh, I think we can do that.
39:14 Speaker 01 Oh.
39:14 Simon Sinek? And I'm thinking, eh?
39:16 Speaker 01 I'm in.
39:16 Simon Sinek? I'm in. And he brings us a slice of cheesecake. And it's the most amazing thing. And I've got brownie points because this girl's like, this guy can get cheesecake. And then he says, would you like anything else? And I hold up the menu and it says cheesecake, best cheesecake on the menu. So all I did was surreptitiously order something that's on the menu. They put it on the menu. They put it on the menu. And I didn't know that they put it on the menu.
39:37 Speaker 01 And the girl was like, wow, this guy can really order from the menu.
39:41 Simon Sinek? Exactly. So the point is, anybody can go to Pajoli and have this cheesecake now.
39:46 Speaker 01 Excellent.
39:47 Simon Sinek? Okay.
39:48 Speaker 01 How big a slice do you want?
39:49 Simon Sinek? You've got it, it's gotta be small. You gotta eat those slices. This is the last thing we have.
39:52 Speaker 01 Please make it small.
39:53 Simon Sinek? Okay.
39:53 Speaker 01 That's good.
39:54 Simon Sinek? Good?
39:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:54 Simon Sinek? Okay.
39:58 Simon Sinek? This is the
40:02 Speaker 01 This is the shit as they say.
40:03 Simon Sinek? Wait, hold on, gotta get the middle bit.
40:05 Speaker 01 Oh, man.
40:07 Simon Sinek? This is, this cheesecake, okay, so for those who weren't looking, it is a gooey, drippy creamy cheesecake with a top like all best cheesecake is burnt.
40:16 Speaker 01 Yep.
40:17 Simon Sinek? Seared the top of the cheesecake.
40:19 Speaker 01 Alright.
40:19 Simon Sinek? So excited, didn't overeat the rest of the meal, so I have.
40:22 Speaker 01 Thank you for this.
40:23 Simon Sinek? Oh, this is, I'm so glad I found something you didn't know, because everything else, you own the restaurants.
40:27 Speaker 01 No, this is awesome.
40:28 Simon Sinek? Okay, you ready?
40:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, here we go.
40:29 Simon Sinek? Here we go.
40:33 Speaker 01 That doesn't get better than that.
40:35 Simon Sinek? Top five desserts of all time, right?
40:36 Speaker 01 It's, uh, yeah. It's unbelievable.
40:38 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
40:39 Speaker 01 I mean.
40:39 Simon Sinek? Holy cow. I don't think there's any conversation we can have right now.
40:42 Speaker 01 I'm so glad I came.
40:45 Speaker 01 This could solve wars.
40:48 Simon Sinek? Yeah. This is something very specific that everybody can relate to.
40:52 Speaker 01 It's the great, it's the great, unless you're lactose intolerant, or you can't eat sugar, or.
40:56 Simon Sinek? If you're lactose intolerant.
40:57 Speaker 01 Take a pill.
40:58 Simon Sinek? Take a pill.
40:58 Speaker 01 Take a lactaid.
40:59 Simon Sinek? Take a, take a lactaid for this one, it's worth it. Or just suffer. Suffer indigestion.
41:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's worth it. Food, I always say is the great connector. We all gotta eat, first of all, everybody on the planet eats. But if you and I never met and we sit down and we have something amazing like this, first of all, we're happy because it's so delicious. Next, we're talking, and we're in a better mood because the food was delicious, and we might share a smile or a laugh. So I always say food is the great connector, and then laughs are the cement.
41:32 Speaker 01 And so now, we had a nice lunch, and it was so nice, what's gonna happen? We wanna eat again.
41:38 Simon Sinek? We definitely wanna eat again.
41:40 Speaker 01 Right? So that's how friends are made. That's how, that's how romance begins.
41:48 Speaker 01 They call a date for a reason, right? You go on a date, where, where are you going? You're probably going to the movies, but you're gonna eat, because that's where you get to know the person.
41:56 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
41:57 Speaker 01 Over a pleasurable experience.
41:59 Simon Sinek? Did you have a happy family, happy childhood?
42:03 Speaker 01 I have to say in retrospect, just like you were saying, you don't know what you have, you go to someone's house, I can't believe the food is so terrible, I must have great food at my house. No, we had, we didn't have lousy food, and a lot of the time, my family was yelling at each other. But we were, when we weren't yelling, we were laughing. My dad was very funny, and my mother also was funny, uh, and.
42:22 Simon Sinek? Did, did your dad know? No, he was funny?
42:24 Speaker 01 Yes, he actually told jokes.
42:26 Simon Sinek? Okay.
42:26 Speaker 01 He actually, the way my parents met was, my mom was on a date with a fella. And she went to a nightclub in New Jersey. On amateur night, and they listen to musicians, and then this young skinny tailor from the garment district gets up and tells old Jewish jokes. That she thought was hysterical. And she said, that guy, I think I liked that guy better than this guy I'm on the date with. And I always say, if my dad was not funny that night.
42:54 Simon Sinek? Right.
42:54 Speaker 01 I'm not here. So I owe everything in my life to Max's sense of humor. And my mom's sense of humor for appreciating his sense of humor. It's our most underrated value as human beings. Sense of humor.
43:10 Simon Sinek? Is everybody funny?
43:12 Speaker 01 No.
43:14 Speaker 01 Some people sadly are born without a great sense of humor. But I think. It's who we're attracted to as friends. You don't have to have my exact sense of humor, you just have to appreciate mine and I have to appreciate yours.
43:26 Simon Sinek? You don't have to be the joke teller, but you can be the laugher.
43:29 Speaker 01 Yes, that's your part in the equation.
43:31 Simon Sinek? A good team, I find, has like, on my team, for example, I have people who are like brilliant idea generators.
43:36 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:36 Simon Sinek? And they're terrible at execution. But I've got people who are fantastic, fantastic executors, but they're not the big idea generators. Not everybody has to have the same skill.
43:44 Speaker 01 So you did, you wouldn't need them.
43:45 Simon Sinek? You need the friend who loves your jokes.
43:47 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
43:48 Simon Sinek? And that's what makes it work. Cause you encourage each other, you encourage each other.
43:51 Speaker 01 Yes, but I tend to, I tend to be attracted to people who are. I think way funnier than me in different ways. Right? Like, that's the writer's room. Have you ever been in a writer's room?
44:03 Simon Sinek? I've always wanted to.
44:04 Speaker 01 It's probably heaven on earth. If you like to laugh, you're literally getting paid to laugh.
44:11 Speaker 01 And then. The only sunshine coming in this room is the menu for lunch. And then you get to order whatever you want from wherever you want. This is at the peak of television. This may be gone now.
44:23 Simon Sinek? Right.
44:23 Speaker 01 This, this life.
44:24 Simon Sinek? Right. In our virtual world now.
44:27 Speaker 01 Exactly, and and the end of entertainment as we know it.
44:31 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
44:31 Speaker 01 Right, where kids can make their own movies on the phone by speaking into it and saying, make me the, I want to be an out of space and do my own version of Star Wars. And I want to be the hero. And I like the girl down the street and make her the girl that I get. And make my friend over here the villain. And he pushes a button and then this is soon. This will happen.
44:50 Simon Sinek? It's not far.
44:50 Speaker 01 And then AI creates. A movie that not only he can show on a giant screen, but he can hit a button and distribute it worldwide. Why does he need a studio? Why does he need an agent? Why does he need a movie theater? Why does he need, doesn't.
45:03 Simon Sinek? Does that bother you?
45:04 Speaker 01 Of course, because the art is gone then.
45:07 Simon Sinek? But here's the thing, I don't think so. What my, where I'm coming out on AI, especially when it comes to creativity.
45:14 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:14 Simon Sinek? I think what technology does is it reorganizes the focus. Right, so for example, we were an album culture.
45:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:21 Simon Sinek? We listened to eight tracks and and records and CDs and tapes. We're an album culture.
45:26 Speaker 01 Right.
45:26 Simon Sinek? Until the MP3 player showed up. And now we're a song and playlist culture. Right, so the technology changed our preferences and our taste, changed our area of focus.
45:35 Speaker 01 And who did that screw?
45:37 Simon Sinek? Uh.
45:38 Speaker 01 The artist.
45:40 Simon Sinek? Uh, screwed some artists, gave life to new artists.
45:45 Speaker 01 But not the life that. Uh, you know, Beyonce has to tour because the album isn't going to make her the money that that she can make on tour.
45:54 Simon Sinek? Okay, we're gonna go down this rabbit hole.
45:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:55 Simon Sinek? Okay, all it did, so it changed the business model.
45:58 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:58 Simon Sinek? And so we can't whine that technology has changed the business model. That's like publishing whining that there's an internet.
46:05 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:05 Simon Sinek? You know, remember, it's it's Netflix that pioneered streaming, not the television and movie industry. And it's Amazon that invented the e-reader and not the publishing industry.
46:13 Speaker 01 You're right.
46:13 Simon Sinek? And it's Apple, a computer company, that invented iTunes and not the music industry. It's because they're all clinging to the to the past and missing that technology changed us our lives. And you can change with it. Or you can go kicking and screaming, or you can go out of business.
46:26 Speaker 01 I have nothing against the technology. It's the fairness.
46:31 Simon Sinek? Fairness, I mean, the business models change. And so Beyonce may have been able to make tons of her money from selling her albums.
46:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:39 Simon Sinek? And then the MP3 and the Spotify's, I get it, I get it.
46:42 Speaker 01 Yes.
46:42 Simon Sinek? Unfair, took it away, changed the business model. But I guarantee you that Beyonce makes more money on her tours than anybody with a couple of songs who had a one-hit-wonder through an MP3. The business model changed. And now the better the tours.
46:58 Speaker 01 Correct me if I'm wrong though. AI is an amalgam of everything that AI takes from
47:05 Simon Sinek? Correct. It's derivative.
47:06 Speaker 01 It is actually derivative. So it's a lot like stealing.
47:11 Simon Sinek? It's derivative.
47:13 Speaker 01 How is it not like stealing? If a movie studio
47:16 Simon Sinek? I don't know how this
47:17 Speaker 01 writes a script using AI.
47:19 Simon Sinek? This has destroyed IP law. I mean, let's start there, like, the whole IP law probably needs to be rewritten.
47:24 Speaker 01 But if a movie studio
47:26 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
47:26 Speaker 01 writes a movie script using AI, which has stolen plotlines, lines of dialogue, from human beings.
47:35 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
47:36 Speaker 01 That studio owns that movie, don't they?
47:39 Simon Sinek? I don't know the answer to that. Like I said, I think this is uncharted territory. However, what I think is more likely to happen is that a studio will take what it owns
47:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:50 Simon Sinek? and feed it into the system. All the movies and IP it owns.
47:54 Speaker 01 They don't do that.
47:55 Simon Sinek? Or let's say
47:56 Speaker 01 They just take, take, take, take from everybody.
47:58 Simon Sinek? But I'm saying, if we're gonna talk legal, like, where there's no legal problems is, let's say, Amazon that now owns James Bond.
48:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:07 Simon Sinek? Puts all the James Bond movies in.
48:09 Speaker 01 Right.
48:09 Simon Sinek? And says, make another James Bond movie for us based on all the previous James Bond movies.
48:13 Speaker 01 Right.
48:13 Simon Sinek? They own all the IP anyway. They own the new IP that's spat out for the old IP.
48:17 Speaker 01 Pretty sure they're not gonna stick to that rule.
48:21 Simon Sinek? Yeah, that's the problem. I mean, that's a different, but like, but like, you can ask AI to write something in the style of me.
48:28 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:28 Simon Sinek? And it'll go on about why and purpose and all of this stuff.
48:31 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:31 Simon Sinek? Which is a 15-year-old book.
48:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's mostly terrible now.
48:36 Simon Sinek? It doesn't know what I'm gonna write.
48:38 Speaker 01 Yes, but it's mostly terrible now. But you could see in a few years it not being terrible.
48:44 Simon Sinek? It's not terrible. Some of it's amazing. But as an artist myself, I think what people miss is that we're also result oriented. We want the product. Give me the movie. Give me the screenplay. Give me this. That they forget that what makes you you is writing nine frickin' seasons of Raymond.
49:02 Speaker 01 Yep.
49:02 Simon Sinek? And you are a better writer now than you were from season one. You're more nuanced. You understand dialogue better. You understand conflict better. There's no learning if AI does all the work for you. You might produce a good product, but you go through life, learning nothing, growing nowhere. And you'll have a class of artists that will be the same
49:27 Simon Sinek? entry level human being after 15 year career as they were after a one year career. And I think it's the wisdom that we're forgetting. It's this very human thing that computers can't give us, which is it's the it's what makes me a better thinker, problem solver, better viewer of life, pattern connector, is not because of my
49:49 Speaker 01 Because you Googled the answer.
49:50 Simon Sinek? It's not because I Googled the answer.
49:51 Speaker 01 Right.
49:51 Simon Sinek? It's because I struggled to write my own book.
49:54 Speaker 01 Exactly.
49:55 Simon Sinek? And that's what made me better at what I do. And my last book is a much more mature and better piece of literature than my first book.
50:03 Speaker 01 Right.
50:03 Simon Sinek? First book's a nice idea, but it's, I wouldn't say it's well written.
50:07 Speaker 01 But the computer is gonna get better at that and it's gonna learn the way you learned over time.
50:13 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
50:14 Speaker 01 And then replace you. You're not afraid of this future?
50:19 Simon Sinek? I think it's
50:20 Speaker 01 We believe, maybe naively, that we will always have some value as people.
50:25 Simon Sinek? I remember when the internet popped up and there were same, the same things like the death, the death of bricks and mortar stores. There would be no such thing as a store anymore because we're gonna do all our shopping on the internet. And what we forgot is people like shopping.
50:40 Speaker 01 They do, but some of that came true. And a lot of business fail.
50:43 Simon Sinek? But some of it came true
50:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:45 Simon Sinek? because of Amazon's pricing model and Amazon's ability to make it impossible to but again
50:51 Speaker 01 And the convenience.
50:52 Simon Sinek? But it's business model, right?
50:53 Speaker 01 Yes.
50:54 Simon Sinek? At the end of the day, we still enjoy going to stores and that I hear you, but I don't think it's because of the internet. It's because of the pricing that Amazon can offer.
51:02 Speaker 01 I think it's a little of both because when I can sit in my bed and order something and it comes by the end of the day.
51:10 Simon Sinek? Yeah, that's the problem. I mean, remember when the early internet shopping, it came like two weeks. And so like convenient was going to the store.
51:15 Speaker 01 Of course. But now that you can get your groceries.
51:18 Simon Sinek? In the same day, same same hour.
51:20 Speaker 01 And even other stuff.
51:21 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
51:21 Speaker 01 It is crazy.
51:23 Simon Sinek? Well, I think we can agree on one thing.
51:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
51:25 Simon Sinek? We don't know what's gonna happen. We're probably all doomed. And so.
51:30 Speaker 01 So enjoy the moment.
51:31 Simon Sinek? So enjoy the moment.
51:32 Speaker 01 Surround yourself with amazing. Because in the end, they're gonna cancel you anyway.
51:36 Simon Sinek? And there's that's today's little lesson.
51:39 Speaker 01 There's a little bow.
51:41 Simon Sinek? I don't even have to summarize.
51:44 Speaker 01 And be specific.
51:46 Simon Sinek? Do the show you wanna do because they're gonna cancel you anyway. And everything you talk about, be specific.
51:51 Speaker 01 I think so. Like just like you said, you all the the knowledge that you accumulated through struggle and hard work made you specifically you. There is no other you. And that applies to everyone.
52:05 Simon Sinek? And I think so. That's a great question, which is, do we come, do we become more specifically us?
52:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:13 Simon Sinek? Over time.
52:13 Speaker 01 Of course.
52:14 Simon Sinek? So are you less specifically you when you're young?
52:17 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:17 Simon Sinek? As a 21 year old, more generic than a 50 year old.
52:22 Speaker 01 Cause you didn't live long enough yet to to.
52:24 Simon Sinek? There's not enough specifics.
52:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, you need the wrinkles.
52:28 Simon Sinek? Got it.
52:29 Speaker 01 The little wrinkles.
52:29 Simon Sinek? More wrinkles you have is the amount of specific experiences you have that made you you.
52:33 Speaker 01 That's right. The wrinkles are earned.
52:36 Simon Sinek? Wrinkles are earned. The specifics are earned. I really like this. It's a great philosophy for life. I thought we were just gonna talk about food. That's really nice.
52:44 Speaker 01 That's a big part of it, and it's a great metaphor for a lot of things in life.
52:48 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
52:50 Speaker 01 Food is art.
52:52 Simon Sinek? It can be, yeah. I don't understand people who-
52:54 Speaker 01 I think chefs are great writers.
52:56 Simon Sinek? They're right.
52:57 Speaker 01 You write a recipe. You put ideas together that maybe haven't been together before. Roy Choi, for example. You know who he is?
53:06 Simon Sinek? I don't.
53:07 Speaker 01 Roy Choi created the Kogi truck. You know what that is?
53:11 Simon Sinek? I don't.
53:12 Speaker 01 It changed the world. Why? Because here's a Korean-American who, growing up in LA, loves Mexican food and culture. He takes Korean barbecue and he puts it in a tortilla. It makes a Korean barbecue taco.
53:31 Simon Sinek? Wow.
53:32 Speaker 01 Then he takes a truck and paints it with the word "Kogi" on it. And as the internet is coming, and people are writing now on the internet, "The Kogi truck is at Ventura and this. Come there." And crowds start coming. Now, people go, "Wait a minute. Food trucks used to be just be for construction sites. Now, they're cultural phenomenons." The reason you see food trucks everywhere on earth is because this guy-
54:01 Simon Sinek? Brilliant.
54:02 Speaker 01 -put Korean barbecue in a taco.
54:04 Simon Sinek? He's the OG.
54:06 Speaker 01 Roy Choi.
54:07 Simon Sinek? Wow.
54:08 Speaker 01 That's- You should have him on, because that's a great story, and real entrepreneurship, and a work of art. That took over the world. We love a food truck. We love it because it's handy. Everyone is different. You can travel by going to a collection of food trucks, which, you know, a place like Austin will take an old parking lot and put a ring of food trucks around it that's been curated. We have a Mexican one, we have a barbecue one, we have an Indian one, we have this, and you have a food festival.
54:40 Simon Sinek? So why shouldn't chefs be afraid of AI?
54:45 Speaker 01 Why shouldn't they be?
54:46 Simon Sinek? You said that writers are under threat, musicians are under threat, painters are under threat, all because this AI can do what they do, so why not the chef? You said they're writers, they write these recipes, so why not the AI? Give me a recipe for this kind of dish with these kinds of ingredients.
55:02 Speaker 01 Because the computerized restaurant could take their job away. If the truck can drive itself and the food can cook itself and serve itself to you, they're out of business.
55:13 Simon Sinek? I don't think it'll ever happen.
55:15 Speaker 01 I hope not.
55:16 Simon Sinek? But I'll tell you for a very simple reason. I want somebody to smile with me.
55:19 Speaker 01 Of course.
55:20 Simon Sinek? There's a cookie place in New York City that I went to. Everything's stark white and very futuristic and it looks like some Woody Allen movie. And you go in and there's a screen, you go bleep, bleep, bleep, and you say what kind of cookie you want. This person in the back gets the order on a screen and they prepare the cookie and they put it in a bag and then somebody hands, I think they have it, they just put it on the counter with your name on it. And the people, I was looking in the back and the people in the back looked so unhappy in a job, and it's not the job, it's not the mean...
55:47 Speaker 01 There's no social connection.
55:49 Simon Sinek? It's not the mundaneness of making a cookie and put it in a bag. It's what makes my job fun is I want to talk to you and say hi and smile and say thank you and say please, like stupid little shit.
55:59 Speaker 01 Also, you know, a pretty girl might come in.
56:03 Simon Sinek? But I think what'll happen is people will demand it. And I think the companies will always offer what the market demands. And so companies might be looking for all this way to eliminate people, eliminate this and eliminate all of that, until the one person who starts the food truck, who says, you know what, we're making our own food so that you can see who makes it and we'll smile at you and hand it to you because you'll know that I made it with love. And that's the one that's going to have the line around the block and all the other AI trucks are going to put people in it because that's what the market demands.
56:28 Speaker 01 Unless one thing.
56:29 Simon Sinek? Go.
56:30 Speaker 01 That's the best cookie you ever had in your life.
56:32 Simon Sinek? No, I don't even think that's it.
56:33 Speaker 01 If a machine made that best cheesecake right now, right, that we just had.
56:37 Simon Sinek? All right, all right, you win.
56:39 Speaker 01 You'd still love that cheesecake, right?
56:41 Simon Sinek? I love the story that goes with the cheesecake. I've got the story.
56:44 Speaker 01 Of course, I always say the story makes it taste better. I really believe that. And if grandma smiles at me while she's giving me her, you know, beautiful pasta in Italy, I'm in love with the whole thing. I'll go this far. I asked Thomas Keller, because I have a podcast too, you'll come online. It's called Naked Lunch and we eat every time.
57:02 Simon Sinek? I only eat with you.
57:05 Speaker 01 Thomas Keller came and did the... And I said, you have advice for me for the diner? And you know what he said? The number one thing, what do you think it was?
57:12 Simon Sinek? What?
57:13 Speaker 01 What, you wanna guess?
57:14 Simon Sinek? Great staff.
57:15 Speaker 01 That's it. Service.
57:16 Simon Sinek? Service.
57:16 Speaker 01 That's everything.
57:17 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
57:18 Speaker 01 Especially for a diner. You want a warm cozy hug of a place. The food has to be good.
57:23 Simon Sinek? Bad service can ruin good food.
57:26 Speaker 01 Of course it can.
57:27 Simon Sinek? And great service enhances mediocre food.
57:29 Speaker 01 And you've.
57:30 Simon Sinek? And if you've got both, you're a winner.
57:31 Speaker 01 And if you fall in love with the people in the place, you're a customer. You're coming back.
57:37 Simon Sinek? You're coming back.
57:38 Speaker 01 Right? We all wanna be accepted.
57:40 Simon Sinek? And that's why I think we're safe from AI taking over the world. It's because fundamentally, people want human beings. They wanna feel loved. They wanna feel held. They wanna look someone in the eye. You know what everybody wants? A hug.
57:52 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
57:52 Simon Sinek? A metaphorical hug of good service. Or a literal hug. You know as well as I do.
57:57 Speaker 01 I give those out in the show.
57:58 Simon Sinek? You know as well as I do that if your staff is amazing, and a customer comes in, they will hug the staff. The regulars will get hugs, because that's how people are.
58:07 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes. It's vital. AI will never take that away, but they could take away a lot.
58:14 Simon Sinek? So you kind of, I think, yes, but I think again, it goes back to the Beyonce challenge, which is the enterprising ones.
58:22 Speaker 01 Will figure it out.
58:23 Simon Sinek? Will figure it out. The enterprising ones will be able to put their finger on the zeitgeist and say, you know what? I can't make money on an album anymore. But the album is my marketing tool for my tour.
58:34 Speaker 01 Right.
58:34 Simon Sinek? I'm gonna do the best tours of anybody, the best concerts of anybody.
58:39 Speaker 01 Right.
58:39 Simon Sinek? And instead of slaving away, trying to market my album.
58:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:43 Simon Sinek? I'm gonna slave away, making the best tour I can make.
58:47 Speaker 01 Right.
58:47 Simon Sinek? And I think it just changes the energy and it changes the model. And so because we're in a period of flux right now, the people with the old business models that can't imagine new business models are the ones screaming the death of everything.
58:57 Speaker 01 Right.
58:58 Simon Sinek? For good reason, it's gonna be young people.
59:00 Speaker 01 Yep.
59:00 Simon Sinek? Or really enterprising and experienced people. But young people who are not encumbered by the old business models will be the ones figuring out the new models.
59:07 Speaker 01 Listen, it's always been.
59:09 Simon Sinek? Or the truck.
59:09 Speaker 01 A small set of people who make the most out of the business. There's only one Tom Hanks, right? There's only, there's very few giant movie stars. And the kid that I described who talks into his phone and pushes a button and a movie comes out.
59:25 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
59:27 Speaker 01 The kid who's best at that will be the new Tom Hanks.
59:30 Simon Sinek? Yeah. I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard.
59:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:34 Simon Sinek? And I'm looking at all the stars of all the famous people.
59:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
59:36 Simon Sinek? And I didn't know most of them.
59:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:38 Simon Sinek? Because everybody gets forgotten.
59:39 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Simon. This is so uplifting.
59:44 Simon Sinek? I guarantee you, my niece doesn't know who Arnold Schwarzenegger is. You know, I'm pretty confident my niece doesn't know who Ray Romano is. And it's no disrespect to anything you or Ray did. It's just like, time goes forwards, which is why you're doing new things.
59:56 Speaker 01 You have to do new things.
59:58 Simon Sinek? You're like the Larry David of the Ray Romano Show. Which is...
1:00:02 Speaker 01 I guess.
1:00:02 Simon Sinek? The guy in the background.
1:00:03 Speaker 01 Yes, except my show now is...
1:00:05 Simon Sinek? You didn't...
1:00:05 Speaker 01 Why curb your enthusiasm?
1:00:07 Simon Sinek? But why curb your enthusiasm? Don't curb your enthusiasm.
1:00:10 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:00:10 Simon Sinek? Was there ever a temptation like Larry?
1:00:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:13 Simon Sinek? To make a show of you?
1:00:17 Speaker 01 This is it. This is my version. I've used him as an example. I am the guy who was behind the scenes and now I'm in the front of the scenes. But this is my personality, specifically me.
1:00:26 Simon Sinek? Larry has said...
1:00:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:28 Simon Sinek? That his show is an exaggerated version of him.
1:00:30 Speaker 01 It's not. I've done his show twice. I know him. He might be a little nicer on the show.
1:00:40 Speaker 01 He's not a people person.
1:00:41 Simon Sinek? No.
1:00:42 Speaker 01 No, and I love him. He is uniquely and specifically him. And there is a great need for him in the world. There's nobody funnier.
1:00:51 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:00:52 Speaker 01 Every line out of his mouth is an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. The first time I met him.
1:00:57 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:00:58 Speaker 01 I said, "Hey, it's great to meet you." I was at a party.
1:01:00 Simon Sinek? Right.
1:01:00 Speaker 01 "Great to meet you." He doesn't say hello. He says, "You think it's all right to throw gum in the fireplace?"
1:01:07 Simon Sinek? He just says what's on his mind.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 You exist for him to talk to.
1:01:11 Simon Sinek? The world is merely a fishbowl for him to swim through.
1:01:14 Speaker 01 Here's a face I can ask. Let me get your opinion. Let me test this theory.
1:01:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:22 Simon Sinek? All right, I have a couple of questions here for you. You created Everybody Loves Raymond and Somebody Feed Phil. It's always got some name in it to give to that, to do something with it.
1:01:32 Speaker 01 Do something with Phil.
1:01:33 Simon Sinek? Yeah. So what would you name my show?
1:01:36 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:01:36 Simon Sinek? If it's not the optimism, a little bit of optimism. It's a bit of, that's the name of our show. It's a bit of optimism.
1:01:41 Speaker 01 Somebody Talk to Simon.
1:01:45 Speaker 01 It's so lonely.
1:01:48 Speaker 01 By the way, Somebody Feed Phil, the reason I love that title and chose that title is because it denotes someone who can't take care of himself.
1:01:55 Simon Sinek? Right.
1:01:55 Speaker 01 So right away, it's a specific character.
1:01:57 Simon Sinek? Right.
1:01:58 Speaker 01 That's me.
1:01:59 Simon Sinek? Right.
1:01:59 Speaker 01 I can't cook.
1:02:02 Speaker 01 Somebody better feed Phil because otherwise Phil will die. And I have my brother who produces the show with me. And so he runs the show while I'm the monkey in the middle. And he pushes me out of my comfort zone because he thinks that'll be entertaining for people. I fight him every step of the way. And every time I do the thing that I did not want to do, it was worth doing.
1:02:24 Simon Sinek? Like?
1:02:25 Speaker 01 Jumping in the cold water off the Irish coast?
1:02:27 Simon Sinek? That sounds awful.
1:02:28 Speaker 01 It is awful. But I'm glad I did it because I lived.
1:02:33 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:02:33 Speaker 01 And I did it. I jumped into the ocean with these maniacs who do it every morning.
1:02:37 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:02:39 Speaker 01 And I did it. It's in the show. It's in the Dublin episode, if you want to see it. And I didn't do it at first. They invited me. I said, no, I'll be here on the side with hot chocolate when you get out. Because I saw they were all freezing. They jumped in the sea off the Irish coast. We're crazy people. Every day, no matter the weather. But then I fall in love with the people over the course of the day. They're charming. It's like a town full of puppies, the nicest people in the world. Okay? And I leave them, I hug them, I have tears in my eyes because they were so special. Go back to my hotel.
1:03:11 Speaker 01 And I'm thinking and I'm thinking and I can't let go of these people and how great they are. And I call my brother, he's in his hotel. I said, I got good news and bad news. He goes, what? I go, I think I know how to end this episode, which I never think of beforehand. It's made in the editing. We put it together and we see the theme develop and that's the show. We get what we get and then we construct something out of that.
1:03:32 Simon Sinek? Right.
1:03:34 Speaker 01 He said, "What's the bad news?" "I gotta go back and jump in that water." "Because I'm feeling like they have something to teach me and I love them." "And I have to walk the walk." "You know, I can't just say, 'Try new things.'" "I have to be willing to do that, otherwise, why do I have a show?" And he says, "Great!" He wants me to jump in. And we go back and now it's getting dark and it's raining. So it's colder than it was in the morning. And I strip off and I jump in that thing and I'm telling you, it was crazy cold. Like, I scream. You see it in the thing. Lasted maybe thirty seconds. I get out, shivering, you know, drying myself off. I'm happy. Why?
1:04:17 Speaker 01 Because I lived. I did it. And you're gonna think I'm making this up. That was six years ago.
1:04:25 Speaker 01 Every single day since then, I take a shower in the morning and at the end of the shower, I put it on cold for thirty seconds. And it brings me right back there. It also is very good for you, apparently.
1:04:37 Simon Sinek? Yeah.
1:04:38 Speaker 01 The cold plunge, they call it, right? So I do it with the shower. Thirty seconds. I built myself up from ten seconds.
1:04:44 Simon Sinek? No kidding.
1:04:45 Speaker 01 Thirty seconds and you can do it. And I'll tell you one thing, you forget all your troubles. Number one. Number two, it's invigorating and you feel, "Right, now I'm ready for the day." It's almost like I'm thinking about all this crap and now I have a clean slate. And now I'm ready. Here I go. That can happen because you took that baby step out of your comfort zone and changed your life. That changed my life.
1:05:09 Simon Sinek? Yeah. You are wonderful. You are the personification of joie de vivre. You love, you love life.
1:05:18 Speaker 01 Because I feel very, very lucky. I know not everybody gets to live their dream. And I'm not discounting that I had to work hard to get it, but I know how lucky I am. And that informs everything I do. So when you start with that plateau of gratitude, right?
1:05:36 Simon Sinek? I think, but I think, but that there's a difference there. And you just said it.
1:05:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:39 Simon Sinek? The plateau of gratitude is not the plateau of luck. You said, I'm lucky. You're not, you're grateful. There's a difference. Lucky is winning a lottery.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 I did.
1:05:47 Simon Sinek? Right?
1:05:48 Speaker 01 I did.
1:05:48 Simon Sinek? You did, you did. Yes, okay.
1:05:51 Speaker 01 You have to be lucky.
1:05:52 Simon Sinek? I agree.
1:05:52 Speaker 01 And once you are lucky enough to be lucky, you must be grateful for that.
1:05:56 Simon Sinek? And I'm not making the case, oh, you worked hard for it. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what I think there's something to be, when somebody has something that others don't get to have. I don't think we want to think of you as lucky. But we want to know that if you have something that I either want or crave or look up to.
1:06:14 Speaker 01 That you appreciate.
1:06:15 Simon Sinek? I just want to know that you appreciate it. I feel lucky. Don't get me wrong. I feel lucky for everything that I've had. And I know luck played a huge part and timing played a huge part. You know, I am aware of that. All of that said.
1:06:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:26 Simon Sinek? I have gratitude.
1:06:28 Speaker 01 Right.
1:06:28 Simon Sinek? And I think when I hear of others who call themselves lucky, I maybe I'm just speaking for myself.
1:06:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:35 Simon Sinek? I just want to hear them say, I'm grateful and I'm good.
1:06:38 Speaker 01 I think.
1:06:38 Simon Sinek? Does that make sense?
1:06:39 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And you.
1:06:42 Simon Sinek? Cause you just said it, a platform of gratitude.
1:06:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, plateau of gratitude. That's like the baseline.
1:06:46 Simon Sinek? The basis is you have to have a platform of gratitude.
1:06:48 Speaker 01 I'm already grateful.
1:06:49 Simon Sinek? I'm already a winner. I'm a winner.
1:06:51 Speaker 01 Look, I got my wife next to me for 35 years. I got the dog at the foot of my bed. I won already, no matter what happens today.
1:06:57 Simon Sinek? Every part of the day is, is every part of the day after that moment is the lucky.
1:07:02 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:07:03 Simon Sinek? You start with grateful and lucky is upon grateful.
1:07:07 Speaker 01 And we appreciate what we have. And then, once you've have that, now what? How about giving a little back?
1:07:12 Simon Sinek? Agreed.
1:07:12 Speaker 01 How about sharing it with the people? It's only good if you can share.
1:07:15 Simon Sinek? Life is more fun when you get to share with others.
1:07:17 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:07:18 Simon Sinek? I keep trying to end this because there's a clock that says you gotta end. But I just keep enjoying talking to you.
1:07:23 Speaker 01 Thank you. Well, we're not dead yet. We'll, we'll talk some more.
1:07:26 Simon Sinek? I would love that.
1:07:26 Speaker 01 And eat some more.
1:07:27 Simon Sinek? Oh, this was, thanks for sharing food with me.
1:07:30 Speaker 01 Thanks.
1:07:30 Simon Sinek? You're a joy.
1:07:31 Speaker 01 You're a joy.
1:07:32 Simon Sinek? Just a lot of joy. A lot of gratitude and joy.
1:07:42 Simon Sinek? A bit of optimism is brought to you by The Optimism Company, and is lovingly produced by our team Lindsay Garbenius, David Ja, and Devon Johnson. If I was able to give you any kind of insight, or some inspiration, or made you smile, please subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts for more. And if you're trying to get answers to a problem at work, or want to advance a dream, maybe I can help. Simply go to simoncene.com. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other.
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