Matthew Hussey ON: How to Get Over Your Ex & Find True Love in Your Relationships

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. Mathew Hussey sits down with Jay Shetty to talk about dealing with relationships. The way most of us struggle with finding the right person, when we expect too much from our partner, when we refuse to acknowledge that change is voluntary, and when the amount of energy we are willing to give to someone who isn’t at par with what we’re willing to give are the truths that are harder to accept. Mathew Hussey is an British life coach, a YouTube personality, and the author of the New York Times bestseller Get The Guy: Learn Secrets of the Male Mind to Find the Man You Want and the Love You Deserve. His podcast, Love Life with Matthew Hussey, offers practical tips you can use right away to improve all of your relationships – romantic, family, friends, career, and the relationship you have with yourself. Win a limited edition, signed sampler box full of Jay & Radhi's favorite teas. Enter today! https://bit.ly/3jladpu Join the Sama Tea Founder's Club & enjoy exclusive perks and our private communi-TEA! https://bit.ly/37pPT0K What We Discuss with Matthew: 00:00 Intro 03:09 What’s your favorite story of love? 06:22 The importance of reevaluating what is actually important in a partner 12:44 It’s uncomfortable but maybe it’s teaching you something 21:21 When all the special moves don’t work and your genuine self comes out 23:56 The problem is people are falling in love too fast 25:47 How can you be nervous when you’re valuing the right things? 28:06 You obsess over what they could have been 32:59 Don’t be upset when you lose a poet, the poetry is the relationship 35:49 A moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen 39:03 When you come out of an argument bleeding every time 44:31 People aren’t comfortable in being an area they can be criticized 47:32 The culture you create will have an impact in the people around you 50:53 Give an amount of energy you are willing to lose 55:34 Experiencing the endless ocean of disappointment 01:00:00 There is someone that uniquely vibes with your personality 01:03:35 You can’t change a person when they don’t want to 01:09:43 You’ve never been heartbroken, have you? 01:13:35 Staying in unhappy for a long time makes it difficult to entertain the the idea of leaving 01:18:40 The 30-Day Confidence Challenge 01:22:25 Matthew on Fast Five Episode Resources: Matthew Hussey | Twitter Matthew Hussey | Instagram Matthew Hussey | YouTube Matthew Hussey | Facebook How To Get The Guy Get The Guy Book Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Jay Shetty?

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• 1:12Jay Shetty?

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• 1:52Jay Shetty?

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• 2:09Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness, I have been waiting for this day. Jay and I are so excited to announce that this fall, we will be launching our very own hot tea brand called, drumroll please, Suma. Herbal tea has been part of my daily rituals for such a long time now. I choose different teas throughout the day, depending on how my body feels, my mood, my intention. It's really the first thing that I drink in the morning and the last thing that I drink at night. Luckily, Jay is exactly the same, so we have a moment together every morning, every night sipping on tea. Over the last year, having a ritual that brings a little moment of peace, comfort, and presence has been so important.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  It reminds me of being at home with my family in London, sitting by the fire, laughing, sipping on tea, which is a feeling I have been missing a lot. It's been hard to find that feeling of comfort and of acceptance in the chaos lately, but honestly, a cup of tea has most definitely helped. There's so much more I want to share with you, but for now, go ahead and sign up today at sumatea.com and enter to win a signed, limited edition sampler box full of vibrant, delicious, fantastic teas that will inspire moments of mindfulness.

• 3:26Matthew Hussey?

  If you're listening to this and you're in an unhappy situation, I get it. I get how hard it is. One of the things that can help is to say, this demon would come out with another person too.

• 3:44Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep. Or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up or struggling with love,

• 4:24Jay Shetty?

  make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules. Go to jayshettytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now, you know that I love sitting down with experts, people that have dedicated their life, their time and their years to understanding more about human behavior, human dynamics, and understanding how our mind works. And today I'm sitting down with someone that I wanted to meet for a long, long time. I've watched his YouTube videos for years. I've been a fan of his content for many, many years on Instagram and other platforms. We've been trying to get together and we finally made it happen. I'm talking about none other than New York Times bestselling author,

• 5:09Jay Shetty?

  international speaker and dating expert Matthew Hussey. Matthew, thank you for being here, man.

• 5:14Matthew Hussey?

  What's up, man? Thanks for having me. I share the sentiment. I wanted to do this for years and somehow the planets never aligned until now.

• 5:22Jay Shetty?

  I know. I remember messaging with you on Instagram. I think I was actually in London at the time, a few years back, and there was a video that we were gonna do together. It was one of these dating videos that you were doing and you're like, oh, do you want? And I was in London, but I don't know how we kept missing each other.

• 5:34Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, we even had a brief phone call where we like connected and got on really well. And I know we're both mutual friends of Lewis Howes and it just, yeah, it's fun though to finally be in the same room and do this. It's fun.

• 5:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I feel like it's a momentous occasion because England's playing in the final on Sunday. And we're like, we've been brought together as two Brits. And have you decided where you're watching the final? Or you don't know?

• 5:55Matthew Hussey?

  I have to be in true introverted fashion. I have to be at home. Like, I like being with my family because I do like the energy of people who really care.

• 6:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Matthew Hussey?

  What drives me mad is when you've got people who have no idea what they're talking about yelling at a screen during a match. And I genuinely love hearing all of the commentary. So like, I'm one of those people, I'm a fight fan, like boxing and so on. When there's a big boxing match, I'm like, all right, everyone can come over, but just, I want to hear the commentary. So like, I don't, I hate that bar environment. Of everyone yelling at the screen.

• 6:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Yeah, no, I've I've actually, I lead a spiritual book club on Sunday. And half of it is bang in the first half of the game. So I'm only gonna get to what's the second half.

• 6:41Matthew Hussey?

  It's hard for me to imagine anything more different than the energy of the English fans back home than a spiritual book club.

• 6:50Jay Shetty?

  Literally, this is like a really, it's like an intimate, it's a group of friends that I need a spiritual book club for, happens every Sunday. And it's eleven to one, so eleven to twelve, I'm gonna be doing, sorry, eleven to one. And so the game starts at twelve here, so.

• 7:03Matthew Hussey?

  Man.

• 7:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'll get the second half. But no, thank you for being here, man. And like I said, I've watched your videos for years. Seen your interviews, seen your books, seen you, you know, not seen you on stage in person. I look forward to being able to do that. But I wanted to start with the question, I I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if I've seen you been asked this before, but I wanted to ask you like, what's your favorite love story ever? Or is is there one that you have, whether it's a real life one, a client, a a personal experience, a book? Is, you know, what what's your favorite story of love?

• 7:35Matthew Hussey?

  That is a really tricky question. There's a, there's a movie I saw recently.

• 7:42Matthew Hussey?

  It's a Japanese movie called Weathering With You.

• 7:44Jay Shetty?

  I've not seen that.

• 7:45Matthew Hussey?

  It's an animated movie. This guy, he he created what was at one time the biggest grossing anime of all time. But this movie, Weathering With You, is about a young guy and a girl who are, you know, in this kind of, this young love. There's this kind of mythical story where she, it's constantly raining in Tokyo. And she has the power to make the rain go away. They call her a sunshine girl. But and everyone, she's so prized because she's the sunshine girl. And so she's constantly called upon

• 8:24Matthew Hussey?

  by people who are running events or fireworks, displays or whatever to come along and make it stop raining only. And I, spoiler alert for anyone who's not seen Weathering With You, by the way, I'll come back in three minutes. Um. But there's a, every time she does it, she, she start, a piece of herself starts to disappear.

• 8:43Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 8:44Matthew Hussey?

  And it gets to the point where she completely floats up into the sky and no longer has a presence here on earth because she's given so much as the sunshine girl. And there's a moment where he goes to save her from up in the clouds because he realizes she can't, you know, even if she comes back down to earth and never does another thing as a sunshine girl and all it does is rain all day, he still chooses her.

• 9:13Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 9:14Matthew Hussey?

  And the, for me at least, I'm not saying the director meant this, but it's so beautiful because it felt to me like a story of a, of a person who is accepting that even if being with you means that it's, that it's raining.

• 9:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Matthew Hussey?

  I still choose you. I don't just choose you when the sun is shining.

• 9:34Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:35Matthew Hussey?

  And that, there's something stunningly beautiful to me about that because that's a, it's a much more grown up kind of love than the one that we tend to look for in our twenties.

• 9:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Matthew Hussey?

  Or as teenagers and some of us for the rest of our lives.

• 9:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Matthew Hussey?

  Where, you know, we love someone as long as the sun is shining, but when, when the chips are down and when things are tough, they start reassessing everything.

• 9:58Jay Shetty?

  That was a beautiful answer. I love that. That was wonderful. I mean, like, I, I love movies too. So when you said a movie and I've not seen that movie. So that sounds amazing. I love that. What a great love story. And yeah, now, now I don't know. Should I still watch the movie?

• 10:11Matthew Hussey?

  I really enjoy. And there's another movie he did prior to that called Your Name.

• 10:15Jay Shetty?

  Okay.

• 10:16Matthew Hussey?

  And, um, and there, there, there's something very beautiful about his movies. Yeah, I would check them out.

• 10:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Okay. I'll take a look. Yeah, no, I love that. And, and it's so interesting with what you referred to there, this idea of the view we have of love and relationships in our teens, in our twenties, or like you said, for some people their whole life. How do you think your view of love has changed while helping people create, find, keep love? I mean, you know, you've been on this amazing journey. You've been doing this for what? A decade now?

• 10:44Matthew Hussey?

  Fifteen years.

• 10:45Jay Shetty?

  Fifteen years, right? Okay. So you've been in this for 15 years. How has your view of love changed over the last 15 years of actually working with people and speaking on stages, being interviewed in all these places?

• 10:58Matthew Hussey?

  I suppose getting older myself, and I realize I'm still relatively speaking a young man, but getting older myself.

• 11:06Matthew Hussey?

  It's become much more apparent to me, the importance of reevaluating what is actually important in a partner. And we tend to, our younger selves, we, we do have this list of things that we think we want, that seem important, might be charisma, it might be the fact that, you know, someone is super sexy because they can speak three languages, or that, you know, they've achieved a certain status in their life, or an award, or whatever, they're, they can play the guitar. And we, we rate these things as these things. And we, you know, when we think of

• 11:47Matthew Hussey?

  losing someone, we look at all of those things and go, I couldn't lose them, you know, they're, they're funny and they're charismatic and, and they're super fun to be around and they're sexy and they can play the guitar and they can, you know, speak three languages. And it still is a kind of Instagram profile version of a person. And someone recently said to me, like, I'm in a relationship with a guy and, you know, he plays the guitar and I find that really sexy and he's really good looking. And I'm like, he doesn't need, in order to be in a relationship with you, he doesn't need to be great at music. He needs to be great at a relationship. Yep. And if you want to hear someone play guitar really well, go to a John Mayer concert.

• 12:32Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, like you don't need that every day in your relationship. Yeah. What's important in a relationship is someone who is really competent in a relationship, and has those skills. And those skills are hard won. It's one of the reasons that

• 12:52Matthew Hussey?

  relationships with big age gaps don't work. It's not because there is necessarily a chasm in the way these two people feel. It's that there is a huge chasm when it comes to their relationship competence and their experience. And that really does matter.

• 13:15Matthew Hussey?

  And if you're with someone who has any a far a lower level of relationship experience, then they either have to learn through you, which is going to be a painful process. They're going to make a lot of mistakes. They're going to hurt you a lot in the process. That you're going to feel like you're going to have to be careful of avoiding the role of teacher constantly in the relationship and try and be equals in a situation that's inherently kind of unequal. And and you're going to have to hope that they do learn those skills. You're making quite a big bet on the idea that one day they will have that skill set. Some people take most of their lives to get it. And some people never learn it because they're not the kind of people that want to grow

• 13:59Matthew Hussey?

  and be self aware and do the work. And so I I have come to really believe that my my view of love has changed to the extent that I think firstly, the idea of,

• 14:14Matthew Hussey?

  you know, is it about meeting the right person or is it about being the right time? And I've started to weight my opinion far more towards time.

• 14:24Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 14:25Matthew Hussey?

  That when you have decided it's the right time for you to really meet someone, you go into love with a completely different intentionality. Love isn't happening to you. It's not this wave that's washing over you, which is super easy. When a wave is washing over you, you just stand there and just bask in the goodness of how wonderful it feels to to feel that sort of drug. But that's not the same thing as as intentionally. There's a difference between winning the lottery and starting a business. You know, when you start a business, there's a method, there's a a practical, there's a pragmatism to it. The things you need to do in order to build this thing. And I think that.

• 15:10Matthew Hussey?

  That to me, it's, I don't think I've developed a less romantic view. I actually, if anything, have more and more and more come to see a person who's in a place where they're willing to actually do the work of a relationship as romantic.

• 15:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Matthew Hussey?

  And I think people consistently get burned when they're not factoring into the equation of how right someone is, whether this person is demonstrating, A, that they are also at a time in their life where they're looking for the same thing, and B, that they have genuine, great relationship skills. Like, you know, we're all going to argue at some point, but how do we argue?

• 15:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Matthew Hussey?

  Right, that's, that's just one area, but it's a huge thing.

• 15:57Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:58Matthew Hussey?

  So that, that to me would probably be the biggest shift. I, I believe in timing more these days, and I believe that we, we undervalue to an incredible extent.

• 16:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 16:09Matthew Hussey?

  Genuine relationship skills, and we overvalue just kind of mindless attraction.

• 16:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, I love that answer, man. That's so, that's so fascinating to compare person versus time. And I, yeah, I often say to my friends, like, the most romantic thing in the world is someone who's trying to build relationship competence. Like, that, that is the most romantic expression that someone can have. I love the way you talk about relationship skills, and we're talking about relationship competence. I find that actually, and, and I can say this for my relationships too, before I met my wife and with now, uh, relationship competence always felt like both people didn't have it. I don't think I was in many relationships where I had it and the person didn't. I actually think for many years, it was just, we both, like, me and the other person, we both had zero relationship competence. How do you think people build relationship competence?

• 17:00Jay Shetty?

  Because it almost feels like, and you're right, and, you know, I know we both agree on this, that you just expect to know how to be in a relationship, and you kind of just. You're almost expected to know that, oh yeah, you start dating and then you know what to do next. And none of us know what to do next or now. Tell us about how you go about building relationship competence and what are the skills that you kind of break it down into for people to think about that?

• 17:21Matthew Hussey?

  Well firstly, I had very much the same experience as you. I always thought I was such a great guy in relationships. I really did like.

• 17:29Jay Shetty?

  Same.

• 17:29Matthew Hussey?

  I always thought I was so, you know, the line I always used to say about myself is, you know, I, yeah, maybe I wasn't ready or maybe I wasn't in a place where I wanted the same thing, but I was a great partner. Yeah. While I was in it. It wasn't true.

• 17:44Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 17:44Matthew Hussey?

  I was, I was, uh, what's the word? I was a gentleman. I was respectful. I, in many ways, I've always been kind. That's always been a through line of my life, but you can be kind and dumb.

• 18:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Matthew Hussey?

  And you can hurt a lot of people when you're kind and dumb, you know? And so I, I look back on myself and it, sometimes it takes someone who's better than you at a certain part of a relationship, maybe not the whole thing, but they come along and,

• 18:16Matthew Hussey?

  and you notice that they, you know, going back to that example, argue differently. Then you do. You went into fight mode and they, they went into compassion mode. And said, look babe, I know you, I know you feel like this, but here's like the way you're reacting right now. Here's how it's making me feel. And you go, oh, that was different. What was that? It's like you learned a new move.

• 18:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:43Matthew Hussey?

  You went, what was that move? I haven't seen that one before. I'm usually, I've been in relationships where I say this and then you give me the silent treatment. And then I have just, I, I feel justified in then being mean because you're going silent. And now we amp it up and, and now all of a sudden you, you, you come across someone who takes you off road. And and that's a scary moment. And when someone takes you off road, you have two choices. You can either you can either be afraid of that. And it is something uncomfortable about it because you're not used to it. Even kindness can be uncomfortable if you're not used to it.

• 19:20Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 19:21Matthew Hussey?

  Right. But when someone takes you off road, that that really is an opportunity to watch what someone else is doing. I think the same is true in business, right? It's you. You see someone else who just did a different thing. Like in your industry, someone did, someone took a turn that everyone else didn't. And you can either be the person who says, what are they, what are they, what's that? Why are they doing that? That's stupid. Or they think that's going to work like, or you can go, oh, that's interesting. No one else is doing that.

• 19:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:51Matthew Hussey?

  Why are they doing that? Let's let me, let me check that out. Like, you could be curious about it, especially if you think, oh, there's something to that, what they're doing.

• 19:58Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 20:00Matthew Hussey?

  And so I think that the the exploring areas where someone isn't doing the same thing as you. And it takes you into a different experience. That's not bad. It's like, it almost feels like, oh, this is uncomfortable, but maybe it's showing me something I'm not very good at. You know, maybe they just, maybe they went out with their friends. And I picked a fight because I'm jealous about something that I think is, I I've got this portrayal of what's going or whatever. I went out with my friends and they said, hey, have have the best night, babe.

• 20:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Matthew Hussey?

  And I'm like, oh, that's weird. Everyone I've been with so far is, when I go out with my friends, they get super jealous.

• 20:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Matthew Hussey?

  And that always makes me feel like I've got something to resist.

• 20:40Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 20:41Matthew Hussey?

  But now I just went out and they said, have the best night. By the way, you look gorgeous. And I'm like, uh, okay, what's that? Oh, that's a new move, which is, what's that one? You know, and you learn something and that you pay attention because you go, that was really interesting. That made me, my God, that made me. That made me when I was out, think about them half the time.

• 21:01Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 21:02Matthew Hussey?

  You know, and think what a sexy, confident person they are.

• 21:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:06Matthew Hussey?

  That's I want to make her feel that when she next goes out.

• 21:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:10Matthew Hussey?

  And that apparently that that's how you do that. Oh, that's interesting. You learn from it. So I think that there's a learning that we get from relationships, but in order to do that, you actually have to be in a space of of of being willing to put eyes on yourself.

• 21:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:25Matthew Hussey?

  And in a constant student mindset, which most of us are not, you know, we do go into relationships, a lot of us thinking we know it all, we learned it all from our last relationship, we but there's there is it's a cliche, but they're just there's always another level. There are so many levels to life and it fascinates me because I I'm always thinking that I'm just thinking, my God, there are so many people that are so good.

• 21:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Matthew Hussey?

  At so many different things, like not, I'm not saying everyone's better than us. They might be good at this one piece of the puzzle, but you watch how they do it and you go, that's really interesting. There's something to learn from that. But if we're constantly trying to defend our own position and trying to feel like what we do is the right way, we'll never we'll never learn that.

• 22:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:11Matthew Hussey?

  And I do, I'm a believer in I'm a believer in therapy or anything that gets you to be to to look at yourself in a in a constructive way and and someone in front of you who's not going to give you the answers that you want. You know, I remember a long time ago um me saying to a friend like ah I'm in, I was in this relationship and I was like, you know, this person wants to speak a lot. And I've, you know, I've got this and I've got this and I've got this. And I was expecting him to be like, well, she sounds like a lot of work. Like she sounds really difficult, man, that's yeah, like, tell me about it. And instead he went,

• 22:56Matthew Hussey?

  I'm kind of with her on this one.

• 22:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Matthew Hussey?

  Like, actually, it's super important that you, he was like, he actually said to me something funny. He goes, you, he goes, I go to the gym one tenth of the time you do. But I have a body like a bag of milk.

• 23:14Matthew Hussey?

  He said, so you get what you pay for.

• 23:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:16Matthew Hussey?

  You know, and in your relationship, you get what you pay for.

• 23:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Matthew Hussey?

  You know, if you want it to be great, invest in it. And, and that's that friend or that mentor or that therapist.

• 23:27Jay Shetty?

  Don't ever see them again.

• 23:29Matthew Hussey?

  Fire them immediately.

• 23:32Matthew Hussey?

  They're worth their weight in gold because we surround ourselves with, you know, people, you know, men surround themselves with the boys' club. Oh, man, she sounds different. Oh, you know, that's so high maintenance, blah, blah. And women surround themselves with, with their friends who sit around and say, I can't believe he did. I can't believe he said that to you. I can't. And half of them sometimes are sitting there going, you kind of seem like the unreasonable one here, but they don't tell her.

• 23:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Matthew Hussey?

  And then she gets further ingrained in this way of thinking. In fact, they even may amp her up.

• 24:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:05Matthew Hussey?

  And send her back into a relationship charged now and, and even more defiant. And now, you know, you get even more conflict. So that, those to me are some of the key ways to learn and, and just to be open. Always, always, always, always be, be open.

• 24:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I, I love that. I think it's so true. And I love what you said about how like, it's not like you're going to meet the mentor in your partner or the coach or the guru, but like, they may be just better at one thing, or maybe great at just one area of a relationship. And that's what you're kind of mining and picking from my, I, when I look back at what you're saying in my relationship, I'm trying to reflect it. In my teens, I realized I had a serious issue with, I just loved being loved. And so I was kind, I, I, I identified with so much of what you said. I was always kind. I was always a gentleman. I was always like generous. But I realized that in my teens, I would go above and beyond to want someone to fall in love with me. And that's all I wanted. All I actually wanted was for someone to fall in love with me.

• 25:06Jay Shetty?

  And it didn't actually matter who it was sometimes. Like, it wasn't even that I really liked them or knew them or understood them. I just wanted that feeling of this person loves me. And what would often happen is they would fall in love with me because I would be the perfect guy by giving them gifts and remembering this and whatever it was. And, and then I would feel like they're not giving me anything back. Now I feel like the one, I'm the one who's doing all the loving and there's no love back, which I've only created myself because of my crazy cycle.

• 25:33Matthew Hussey?

  Totally relate to all of that. And I was that guy too. And.

• 25:38Matthew Hussey?

  Those guys will often look at guys who are kinda the textbook, the textbook jerk.

• 25:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Matthew Hussey?

  And be like, well, he's awful.

• 25:47Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 25:48Matthew Hussey?

  Like, you know, he slept with her and he completely ghosted her and he never called her again, or he disrespected, whatever. He's, it's easy to point to that guy.

• 25:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 25:57Matthew Hussey?

  And be like, what a piece of crap that guy is. But

• 26:03Matthew Hussey?

  we're more dangerous.

• 26:05Jay Shetty?

  I would then break up with them because I didn't feel loved. And then I'd feel like I was the victim and that I'd been the one not treated well. And then my wife broke me because I tried to, I, I, I did the same thing with her. I was always like, but she wasn't impressed by any of the ways I tried to love her. Apart from being me. And that was when it all kind of like unraveled. And I was like, oh, I finally found someone who actually didn't want all the stuff I was trying to do to get her to love me. And so my wife was the kind of person who broke through that barrier because she just didn't care about the stuff or the memory or the gifting or the extravagant, like she hated all that stuff. And so all of a sudden, my technique wasn't, not, it wasn't even a technique. It was genuine in my delusion.

• 26:50Jay Shetty?

  But it wasn't working anymore.

• 26:53Matthew Hussey?

  Right.

• 26:53Jay Shetty?

  And that's when I had to really look at it because I really loved my wife. And I was like, oh, I actually have to really look at this. And so she was the one who broke that and taught me that idea.

• 27:02Matthew Hussey?

  That's beautiful. Yeah. So it took someone who valued something completely different.

• 27:08Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 27:08Matthew Hussey?

  Than the thing that, the weapon you were used to using, right?

• 27:12Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. The move, the move that I was used to.

• 27:13Matthew Hussey?

  Took away all of your special moves.

• 27:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. All the power was gone.

• 27:16Matthew Hussey?

  You have to fight this fight now with none of these special moves.

• 27:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Matthew Hussey?

  And then you're all of a sudden, like you say, it's like being stripped bare.

• 27:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:23Matthew Hussey?

  Now I get a chance to truly be loved for, for who I am.

• 27:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:28Matthew Hussey?

  Not the, the performance that I'm doing in the beginning, which as you say, it's not that it's not genuine.

• 27:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. It wasn't like I was manipulative. It wasn't manipulative.

• 27:38Matthew Hussey?

  It's genuinely about getting something for ourselves.

• 27:43Jay Shetty?

  Completely.

• 27:44Matthew Hussey?

  As opposed to genuinely about discovering somebody else or building something or whatever. And, and, and I did the same thing. And it's, it's one of the great, you know, I deal with, my God, in my company, we're dealing with, I mean, millions of women a month worldwide, but tens of thousands in terms of real coaching. And The one of the biggest problems is people falling for people really quickly.

• 28:13Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 28:14Matthew Hussey?

  Falling in love too fast, where it's because they went on a couple of great dates with a guy. And they can look at the date and go, he was amazing and you you should have seen what he did and how he was on the date and all of that. And the thing I have to always break down is that may not have been about you. It is about something he wanted you to feel by the end of the date. And not that, you know, you I I I'm a I kind of loathe this culture we have right now where everyone's a narcissist.

• 28:49Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 28:50Matthew Hussey?

  We call we're so quick to like label.

• 28:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:53Matthew Hussey?

  He's a narcissist, she's narcissist. Like, I'm like, not every like, we all have a narcissistic streak.

• 28:59Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 28:59Matthew Hussey?

  And we all exhibit narcissistic behaviors at time. That doesn't mean we're a diagnosable narcissist. But a narcissistic streak we all have early in dating and to differing degrees is the desire to impress.

• 29:16Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 29:16Matthew Hussey?

  Rather than connect. And so we go on a date with someone and, you know, at the height of it, if someone's really on the extreme end, they will give the greatest date of someone's life.

• 29:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:27Matthew Hussey?

  And that person goes away and they're like, this guy is amazing or this person. And they they may have put on an amazing date, but you you know nothing yet. And what's cool about your wife, say, you know, going that going through that process with you is, you know, I can imagine for her, it's almost like, well, I want to see how you are in week four.

• 29:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Matthew Hussey?

  Or I want to see how you are in month three.

• 29:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:52Matthew Hussey?

  Or and until you've been there, you really don't know how great of a partner somebody is gonna be.

• 29:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Matthew Hussey?

  And that that's what I mean by, you know, when you asked me about what I've really learned about love and and I talked about valuing the wrong things. That's one of the big ways that it shows up. If you are getting crazy nervous on a date, you're already that that's already a reflection of the fact that you valued the wrong things. Because you're valuing this person's looks or their status or what you perceive them to be.

• 30:27Matthew Hussey?

  But you can't, you're not valuing them in a relationship or in relation to you, which is defined by how much they give, how they connect with you, how they relate to you, how they see you.

• 30:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Matthew Hussey?

  All of that stuff is completely, you're a zero.

• 30:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Matthew Hussey?

  So how can you be nervous if you're valuing the right things? You can only be nervous if you're valuing the wrong things.

• 30:50Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:51Matthew Hussey?

  If, that to me is the key to eliminating early nerves in early dating, is that there is, I almost feel a little fatalistic about it, which is funny coming from someone who gives advice in this area for a living, because, you know, I do believe that we can influence situations with what we do, but we do have to have a bit of a dose of fatalism, that the thing that didn't pan out wasn't the thing.

• 31:17Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:18Matthew Hussey?

  The person who's still great in week eight is showing you the right things. But if they suddenly ghost you in week nine, then it doesn't mean they would have been great in week sixteen.

• 31:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:31Matthew Hussey?

  They're like, oh, but they were the one and I just, I don't know what, I need closure. You have closure.

• 31:36Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:36Matthew Hussey?

  That action was closure. What they showed you is they had eight good weeks in them.

• 31:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com/OnPurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters.

• 32:25Jay Shetty?

  That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus Awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Mazda, more of what matters to you. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 33:06Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile. You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have. Give your clothes

• 33:50Jay Shetty?

  a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. And it's the same as you'd say in sport. Like, I was just thinking about sport while you were saying that, and it's the idea of, a player may have one good season in him or her. And then that player may have had 10 good seasons in him or her. And sometimes we have these players where we're like, oh, she's going to be the next, or he's going to be the next. And then all of a sudden, they don't give you that season. And in sports, we get closure by just going, all right, they had potential, but they didn't make it. But you're right, in love and life, it's a lot hard to have that mentality of like, they gave me eight good weeks, but they didn't make it.

• 34:35Matthew Hussey?

  And you sit there and you obsess over someone who just left you, going, you obsess over what they could have been.

• 34:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's what it is.

• 34:44Matthew Hussey?

  They could have, you know, this was so promising. They were everything that I was looking for. This could have been. And anytime you, you, someone breaks up with us, you know, the heartbreak is the loss of the life we thought we were gonna have with someone. This is, this is what it could have been. This is what it should have been.

• 35:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Matthew Hussey?

  And my answer to that is it would have been if it should have been and could have been.

• 35:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Matthew Hussey?

  Then it would have been. You're literally, you're grieving over something that

• 35:21Matthew Hussey?

  was not, by definition, it wasn't meant to happen because it didn't happen.

• 35:27Jay Shetty?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:28Matthew Hussey?

  It didn't happen. So this idea that it, it was supposed to, or it should have, is, is myth, is a fantasy. It's science fiction.

• 35:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. But I feel like in relationships, we have this fantasy mind that's already written the script and the book and the trilogy before the second date is over. And so it's almost like relationships seems to be like the one area of our life where we write decades into the future and we can't help ourselves because we almost think that that, and, and it's almost like you're living, what you're saying is you're living off the fantasy, not even of the reality that's right in front of you. And so even when you're on a date with them, you're not even there because you're in your fantasy land of what you think it is.

• 36:14Matthew Hussey?

  And that's where in, in so many ways, everything that you are, you know, your expertise in mindfulness and everything you've learned there is so important in dating. Because in dating, you have to be on the date you're on. Mindful dating is be on the date you're on. Don't be on date two, but really you're not. You're on date thirty two. Your mind has to be on date two with your body.

• 36:44Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 36:45Matthew Hussey?

  And when people don't do that, that's where they start, they start constructing a fantasy of where this relationship is going, a fantasy of who this person is. They know 5% of someone and they've built the other 95% out of, out of extrapolation.

• 37:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Matthew Hussey?

  Oh, he was really sweet in that moment. You know, I bet he's good with kids. I bet he's this, I bet he's that, I bet he's, you know, I bet he's an amazing family man. I bet, you know, and, and we've all had the experience of meeting someone who is incredibly charming, fun to be around, you know, and you went away from, like as men, we sometimes go out and we meet another man and it's like we've been a date, on a date with that man and you come home and you go, he was so great, you know, I was like, I loved him to bits. He was, and he really charmed you. And then six months later, the, that person has really lost their shine.

• 37:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Matthew Hussey?

  Cause they're flaky, you realise they don't actually show up when, when you need them to. You realise that it's, they, they kind of, you know, it's that, in The Talented Mr Ripley, there's that great line.

• 37:50Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that's a great movie.

• 37:51Matthew Hussey?

  Great movie. There's a great line where Matt Damon is like, you know, he's become the new chosen best friend of, of Jude Law's character. And his name, Jude Law's character's name's Dicky and Matt, Matt Damon is, is feeling suddenly shut out. Like out of nowhere, he feels shut out when five minutes ago, he was like, this guy's my best friend and he loves me and he's so. And he says to Matt Damon's girlfriend at the time, he, he's expressing how he feels that, you know, or no, he's not even expressing. She sees the look on his face that he's sad, that he no longer has this like friendship that feels real to him. And she says, the thing about Dicky is when, when he puts his attention on you, it's like the sun is shining on you.

• 38:34Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 38:35Matthew Hussey?

  And then. The attention moves on and it's very cold.

• 38:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Matthew Hussey?

  And, and that's the experience of a lot of those people. But when you're taking the 5% of the sun shining on you and you use it to build the 95% that you cannot possibly know. You can't know who this person is when your brother gets sick and you need to travel to the hospital to be with that person and you need support in that moment. You can't know how that person is when you're having an anxious moment and you need someone to show love and compassion towards you. And this anxiety that you can't seem to control. And what you really need is a loving teammate to be there with you and not to judge you. You can't know what this person is like in year three of a relationship. When the, you know, you need to make a shift in your sex life because it feels like that part has become stayed,

• 39:22Matthew Hussey?

  but you need to work together to figure out. You don't know what that person is like in those stages. So, so thinking that you have all the answers because you've been on even 10 or 15 dates with this person and had a wonderful time is a, is a fallacy, a fantasy. There's a great, um, the, the, the relationship itself is about every stage of it and the effort that's put in. And there's a, there's a story from Bukowski where he, he slept with a prostitute. Every romantic story begins with, begins this way. He slept with a prostitute and she, um, he woke up to her having stolen his poetry. And he was so upset, so mad.

• 40:04Jay Shetty?

  That's terrible, yeah.

• 40:05Matthew Hussey?

  And, um, he wrote about it. And he wrote a piece that was all about how you could take anything. Take my money, take the other stuff in the, in the apartment, take it all. But please not my, anything but my poetry. And the, the whole piece finishes with the line. And then God said, crossing his legs, I see where I have created a great many poets, but not so very much poetry. And the, the idea is that. You know, the person who has potential in a relationship is the poet.

• 40:42Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 40:43Matthew Hussey?

  The poet, everyone's a poet.

• 40:45Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 40:46Matthew Hussey?

  Not many people writing poetry.

• 40:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:48Matthew Hussey?

  Writing is the more difficult part. A lot of people who are great on a date, very romantic, very charming. They're a poet on a date.

• 40:56Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 40:56Matthew Hussey?

  The poetry is the relationship.

• 40:58Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 40:59Matthew Hussey?

  And, and you shouldn't, you know, Bukowski was upset because his poetry was taken, the thing he'd worked on. And that's how it should be in a relationship is, don't, don't get upset because you lost a poet. Poets are a dime a dozen. Poetry is rare.

• 41:19Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 41:19Matthew Hussey?

  People who are willing to write the poetry of a relationship, people who are willing to stick it with you for a year, two years, five years, 10 years. That's really rare and, and we need to start valuing the poetry far more than we value the poet.

• 41:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. What a, what a beautiful analogy. Let's, let's talk a bit about that poetry because I feel like. What's amazing is we convince ourselves more of the fiction when you are lusting after that person's. Looks, fame, prestige, whatever, whatever they have that you're attracted to. It's almost like. Then even if they do a million bad things, like you said about the guy playing the guitar or whatever it is, it's like, you're like, oh, but he's so, or she's so whatever. But tell us a bit about what to look out for. So when people are out there, and I know what I love about what you do is that. And I love this conversation, by the way, so far because it's, it's. It's philosophical and it's real, but you're great at getting practical too. And I see that in all the work you put out.

• 42:15Jay Shetty?

  What's some of the practical things that people can look out for? I know so many friends who were in early relationships or. Just started to date someone or finally met someone. What can they look for? In those moments or is it looking for anything? Maybe that's even the wrong place to start.

• 42:30Matthew Hussey?

  I think it's, so. We have a duty early on to bring our best to the table in as much as we can. We're all going to make mistakes. We're all going to have. Anxious moments or jealous moments or moments where we let our insecurity get the better of us. Moments where we let our anger get the better of us. Everyone's going to have these moments, but. We want to try and put our best foot forward.

• 42:58Matthew Hussey?

  But I always think that we learn a lot in the moments where you have your first fight. Or you reveal something about yourself and you see how they react to it. You know, do they react with compassion? Or is there immediate judgment? And, and, and I don't mean a moment where you kind of try and perform.

• 43:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Matthew Hussey?

  I mean, a moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen.

• 43:32Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 43:32Matthew Hussey?

  Does this person, do they see you? Do they acknowledge you? And do they show compassion and curiosity about why you are that way? And what's happened in your life to get you there? Do they really, are they looking to figure you out and who you are is a wonderful, wonderful sign? Cause a lot of people are just in a relationship and they're sleepwalking.

• 43:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:54Matthew Hussey?

  They're just, they're, they're enjoying it. They're enjoying the fruits of the relationship, but you don't get the impression someone's really trying to get to know you. You don't feel seen by that person. The person who's actually asking questions of you, the person who's looking to understand the good and the bad in you. And who elevates the good and soothes the bad. That's something very beautiful to look out for. The person who can come back and say, sorry.

• 44:26Matthew Hussey?

  As of course, and I apply the same standard to, to both sides.

• 44:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course.

• 44:29Matthew Hussey?

  But the person who can, who can come back and say, sorry, you know, again, we, we all, when I'm, when, with one of my staff in my company, when I say, you know, when I give them a difficult piece of feedback, I don't expect them to smile in that moment. I don't expect them to like take, you know, in, I, I would hope that they don't react in a really negative or toxic way. But I don't expect them to have an easy time with that. But if that person can go away over the next few hours or days and then come back and say, you know, I really thought about what you said and I'm going to work on that. That's something to look for. Cause you can really like that person. If you're both that kind of person, you can work with that person.

• 45:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Matthew Hussey?

  That's someone you can genuinely have a relationship with because it's not a relationship that's based on perfection or never having an argument. But it is based on two people who are humble enough to genuinely own their mistakes. Or to own the areas where they wanna get better.

• 45:32Matthew Hussey?

  I'm, I'm always looking at the ways people argue. And whether they, whether they're trying to do damage in an argument.

• 45:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Matthew Hussey?

  Or whether they're trying to rebuild in an argument. And if you're with someone that every time you come out of an argument, you feel like they lacerated you. And there's that you're, you're, you come out of an argument bleeding every time. You know, and you're like, that, why did they have to say that incredibly nasty thing? And it's one thing if they come back ten, an hour later and say, or even a day later and say, I truly regret having said that to you. And I will do better. But if they won't even acknowledge that that was a really toxic way to have an argument. And that was a really nasty thing to say, then that's a problem. Cause this is a relationship that's not gonna soothe you.

• 46:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Matthew Hussey?

  It's gonna create more and more wounds. So that I would say is an important thing. And, and two people genuinely, genuinely at the core of it, operating as a team. What do you, what do you need? And can I tell you, you know, you're working really hard right now. Can I understand what your goal is in doing this and seek to understand that? And where that's coming from for you and why that's important. But can I also voice to you that I'm not feeling very loved right now?

• 46:58Matthew Hussey?

  And that I'm, I, you know, maybe it's just my insecurity or maybe that, you know, but I, or maybe I don't have some enough as much, many things going on in my life right now as you do in yours. But I know one of the effects is it's creating some anxiety for me. And it's making me feel like you don't love me as much as I love you, you know? It, you want an environment where you can have that real conversation. And it, it then to me, a relationship is no longer about. Right and wrong, it's about the conversation. Can the conversation be had? That to me is one of the greatest signs of a relationship you should hang on to.

• 47:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:39Matthew Hussey?

  Is can the relationship be had? And can it be had in a beautiful and productive and loving way?

• 47:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:47Matthew Hussey?

  Because that's all, you know, David Brooks said marriage is a 50 year conversation. Right? Is that conversation, does it feel good?

• 47:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Matthew Hussey?

  Doesn't always feel comfortable, but does it feel like this is a conversation that is making me better?

• 48:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:04Matthew Hussey?

  Or is it a conversation that's always making me worse?

• 48:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. And I think it's, it's such a vicious cycle though, sometimes because I find that

• 48:13Jay Shetty?

  you get into an argument, like you said, which I think the first argument is such a great,

• 48:18Jay Shetty?

  like it's such a great market to put down as let's, let's reflect on this. I think that's such a great way of putting it that you said. And if you look at that, often what happens is the person reacts badly, it's natural, you react badly too. And then you're waiting for that person to make up and that person's waiting for you to make up. And then maybe you go ahead and put the first hand in, but then now they deal with the second bad. And now you're waiting again. And I feel like we get lost in this like waiting game. And I kind of got to a point where I was just like, I want to make sure that I am leading this conversation. So a conversation that me and my wife always have is I'll always check in with her and be like, is this relationship going in the direction you want it to go in? Like, is this going in the direction? Is this relationship what you want it to be?

• 49:02Jay Shetty?

  And if it's not, what do you want it to be? And what are you willing to do to get there? Because, and I'll always be like, well, this is not how I want the relationship to be. And this is what I want it to be. And I feel like that conversation for me is really healthy. And I'm always happy, one thing that I've got to right now, and I think my wife has this in different parts of our relationship. I'm always happy to take the responsibility for the quality of the relationship because I'm in it. In the same way as I'm with my company, in the same way as I'm for this podcast, in the same way as I'm for anything. It's like, it's easy to, it's easy to sit there and go, well, what are you bringing to the table? And and I realized at one point where I was like, if I care about stuff, I've got to be okay with grabbing onto the reins. And the funny thing is, I started to realize that

• 49:45Jay Shetty?

  that actually there are plenty of times when my wife does that. She just does it in different areas that I don't notice. And so it can feel like I'm carrying the burden. But actually, that's not true. I'm I'm taking responsibility where I thrive. And actually, she's taking responsibility where she thrives, and I don't even notice that. And that's when I started to feel healthier, rather than like, I was like, well, you show up, like, what are you doing? And I remember when I was a monk, the the teachers would always tell us that, you know, you may sit in a class with a non-charismatic teacher. So they were like, some of the monks are not going to be the most charismatic, the most

• 50:25Jay Shetty?

  attentive, the most like dynamic teachers of the the the texts and the spiritual scriptures. And they were like, but if you're a student that's 10 out of 10, even if the speakers are 1 out of 10 in presentation, you're going to get lots. But if you're a 1 out of 10 and the speaker's 10 out of 10, then they're lifting you up. But by the way, if you're at a 1 out of 10 and they're at a 1 out of 10, that's all you're gonna get. And it's kind of like what your friend said about the bag of milk. You know, the the idea of like, taking your own responsibility for if you want to be in a relationship. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah.

• 50:58Matthew Hussey?

  But that speaks again. You're so right, Jay, and it's truly beautiful that you have that in your relationship. And it's and it's also brave. Because talking, those conversations are not easy. They and people can say things in those relationship, in those conversations that can scare us. They could say, well, I'm not happy because I want it to go in this direction.

• 51:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah.

• 51:19Matthew Hussey?

  Oof, like, you know, or I didn't realize you were unhappy in that way, or I didn't realize you felt like that. That takes a lot of bravery to have conversations like that, and I commend you for that. And I and I think that's one of the things a lot of people aren't willing to do, is step bravely into an area where they could be criticized.

• 51:39Matthew Hussey?

  But I, I think it is one of the most important aspects of a relationship is being able to do exactly that. So no, I think it's, I think it's a stunning thing.

• 51:52Jay Shetty?

  Well, it's uncomfortable. Like you're saying, it's not, and, and I'm not sharing it's like we've perfected and we've got it right. I'm just saying that that's what we've had to do in order to like, you know, we're only at year five, year eight in our relationship, year five in marriage. But it's like, that's what we've just, I've had to find these, what you're saying, like the 50 year conversation and, and the idea you're saying of having these, like I'm just, I've noticed that without these things, you could go years without changing anything.

• 52:18Matthew Hussey?

  But speaking of what you said with the, the idea of the monks,

• 52:23Matthew Hussey?

  that to me goes back to the, you know, what I was saying about timing being important.

• 52:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Matthew Hussey?

  I do believe when you go into a relationship with genuine purpose, and even when you go into dating with genuine purpose, you, you know, you go on a dating app because a lot of people out there listening to this won't be in a relationship. They'll be right now in the crap shoot of dating apps, trying to figure out how to navigate. When we're intentional, we bring a different energy to the things we do. We bring a different energy to a person. And in a relation, in early dating, I think that when you're really intentional and when you really are like, I'm looking for a real connection here, you don't actually judge people as quickly.

• 53:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Matthew Hussey?

  You don't dispose of people as quickly where you just go wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You, you start actually looking for what could be right. You start, and I'm not saying ignoring abusive and toxic behavior. I'm just saying those superficial things, we just, you know, decide, no, they don't meet this checklist, they don't meet this one, whatever. We lose that because what we're looking for is, is deeper. And we start genuinely seeking to like, we're on a date and we start going, let me really find out who this person is.

• 53:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:38Matthew Hussey?

  Like, let me really see them and let me not be judgmental of them so quickly and, and look to understand them and the. The reward for that is that this person now actually feels seen by you.

• 53:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's great advice.

• 53:50Matthew Hussey?

  And they now give you a different energy than they may have given on the last 10 dates.

• 53:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Matthew Hussey?

  You, suddenly they blossom on the date differently because of the energy in front of them. There's a, Mitch Albom wrote a line about, you know, if the culture isn't serving you, then you have to be brave enough to create your own culture. And in dating, for so many people, I, you know, I get all the complaints about dating these days. You know, it's superficial, it's no one, everyone's flaky, no one goes on real dates, no one's trying, no one's really committing, no one wants a real relationship. It's like, okay, so what you're describing to me is what you perceive to be a culture.

• 54:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:29Matthew Hussey?

  That's not working for you.

• 54:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:31Matthew Hussey?

  But if that culture isn't serving you, then create your own culture that surrounds you. And, and your culture can be powerful, not for the world necessarily, because for that, there needs to be a combined cultural shift.

• 54:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Matthew Hussey?

  But in your micro life, in your micro problems and opportunities, the culture you create will have an impact on the people around you.

• 55:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:01Matthew Hussey?

  And it, the same way, you know, I said, if you go into a room at a party and you say, I hope this party's good. Well, now you're a victim to however this party is.

• 55:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Matthew Hussey?

  You know, if everyone seems kind of closed off and mean and, you know, this cliquey and it's like, oh God. Then you go home and you say, oh my God, that party was so, you know, it was one of those horrible parties. But if you go in and you say, I'm gonna at the very least be responsible for a part of this party.

• 55:31Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 55:32Matthew Hussey?

  I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna give the love and the energy and the, and the, and the compassion and the authenticity that I would love for people in this room to join me in giving. Some will, some won't. And by the way, that's also good because it'll help you find your crowd.

• 55:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Matthew Hussey?

  Right?

• 55:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Matthew Hussey?

  So you, you find your crowd by being the thing you want to be, not by hoping that your crowd elicits it from you.

• 55:53Jay Shetty?

  Completely.

• 55:53Matthew Hussey?

  You found your crowd online by going out and being an energy that you wanted to be first. And then that crowd noticed you. It's like a lighthouse. All the ships start knowing where to come home. Because they see the, you know, they see the lighthouse. That, that for me is. That's one of the most beautiful things about giving energy early on. I see dating, you know, not just relationships, but I see people in dating these days. It's the game is who can try less, who can be cooler, who can be more indifferent. And, and that's honestly not the way to do it. That's certainly the way to attract someone of a lower frequency.

• 56:29Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Yeah.

• 56:30Matthew Hussey?

  Right. You can certainly attract someone who wants the game, who wants the, who's got the demons that make them chase someone who's not into them.

• 56:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:38Matthew Hussey?

  You know, and there are plenty of people with those demons, but you don't want to be in a relationship with a person like that. Cause for sure, a person like that, the moment you stop playing hard to get and you turn around to meet them, they're not going to be interested in you anymore. Cause their demons will tell them, this person likes us now. They're not, they, this person's no longer cool to us.

• 56:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:58Matthew Hussey?

  They were only cool to us as long as they didn't like us. So you can't ever.

• 57:02Jay Shetty?

  So messed up.

• 57:02Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah. But it's, you know, it's that, uh, that Groucho Marx thing. I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.

• 57:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:09Matthew Hussey?

  That describes dating insecurity amongst people like that is I wanna, that person doesn't want me, they must be a catch.

• 57:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

• 57:19Matthew Hussey?

  And, and so what we have to do is give, when we give a little more energy in dating and say, you know what, this person who I've known for five minutes, maybe I'm not feeling much energy here, but I'm just going to give some energy. I'm going to give an amount of energy I'm willing to lose. Right? That's a key way of looking at it. What you don't do is you keep trying with someone who's not giving you equal energy back. That's, that then becomes masochistic.

• 57:47Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 57:47Matthew Hussey?

  But giving an amount of energy you're willing to lose. I always think about that in every interaction.

• 57:51Jay Shetty?

  That's so true. Yeah.

• 57:52Matthew Hussey?

  Given amount, you don't mind losing.

• 57:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:54Matthew Hussey?

  It's like going into the casino and playing like roulette. It's like, all right, I'm in Vegas. I'll give like a hundred bucks.

• 58:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:01Matthew Hussey?

  And then I'm not spending anything else here in these casinos. That's it. You know, for me, it's normally like 10 bucks. Cause I just, I'm not a gambler, but you just decide what am I happy to lose? And it's the same with energy. It's, you know, I'm dating right now. I want to find someone amazing, someone beautiful. I'm gonna give to everyone I interact with an amount of energy I don't mind losing. And some people, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring out the people who, who now are willing to give it back. Cause all of a sudden they might be jolted out of their little coma that they've been in because they're disillusioned with dating and they feel like no one's trying. And so they went into their shell, but they, now they see you with a different level of warmth and playfulness and, and, and just positivity.

• 58:46Matthew Hussey?

  And they go, huh, who is this? This makes me feel good. And then they come out a little bit and all of a sudden you see who they are. You wake them up a little bit and then there's a bunch of people you won't, and that's okay, because you were willing to lose that much energy.

• 58:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:59Matthew Hussey?

  But what people do instead, they do a far more dangerous thing of being afraid of the rejection from people that they approach or talk to in the first five minutes. God forbid I get rejected in the first five minutes. But then they'll meet someone where they have a bit of connection and chemistry, but who isn't trying, who isn't giving them equal energy. And they'll keep pouring energy into that person, month after month after month, when they're not getting the same in return.

• 59:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Matthew Hussey?

  And they think that's safer than going out there and getting rejected by a new person.

• 59:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:34Matthew Hussey?

  But actually this is the dangerous one.

• 59:37Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 59:37Matthew Hussey?

  The being rejected in five minutes by someone who doesn't even know you, who, who on an app, how much can someone really reject you anyway? And we all know our experience. We've all chosen people in life who on an app, we might have swiped right past.

• 59:49Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 59:50Matthew Hussey?

  Right? So we know from our own personal experience that if we get rejected on an app, it doesn't even mean that person wouldn't like us in real life.

• 59:56Jay Shetty?

  Totally. Yeah.

• 59:58Matthew Hussey?

  But we're so afraid of that rejection. That's mortal fear is that rejection. And yet continuing to waste months or years on someone who's, who's giving us unequal energy. It's something people happily do. They spend that time like it's nothing. And that's the really dangerous one.

• 1:00:16Jay Shetty?

  Because it feels safe, because it feels like there's something at least.

• 1:00:19Matthew Hussey?

  There's some connection, there's some comfort. Well, there's a couple of things. Firstly, it's comfortable, right? It's what I know. Doesn't mean I'm, happiness and comfort are very different things. It's not happy. I'm not happy. I'm not getting my needs met, but it's comfortable.

• 1:00:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Matthew Hussey?

  Right? So I'll stay in it for that reason.

• 1:00:37Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need them most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 1:01:20Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining, and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve.

• 1:02:02Jay Shetty?

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• 1:02:45Matthew Hussey?

  It's the fear of I'll never find anyone again, which is a fallacy because you found this person. You did it already, you know. And by the way, this person's not so unique that they're the only person in the world that's going to find you attractive.

• 1:02:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:57Matthew Hussey?

  Right? Like, they're attracted to you because you're attractive.

• 1:02:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. But that's the crazy thing, right? We have this massive paradox between there's now unlimited choice, more than ever. You feel like you have way more choice than you had before. But then we have limitless fear to go with that, that we may not find anyone ever again. Like, it's that weird thing, right? Like, it's the idea of like, I don't, so I've never had to online date or app date. I became a monk when I was 21 and then my wife's been the only person I've been with since I left. So I, the last

• 1:03:28Matthew Hussey?

  Which is a really impressive age to become a monk, by the way. I feel like that's uniquely impressive, is becoming a monk at 21.

• 1:03:34Jay Shetty?

  Well, I started at 14, so I had seven years of, of

• 1:03:38Matthew Hussey?

  Got it. Of runway.

• 1:03:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, totally, totally.

• 1:03:42Matthew Hussey?

  Becoming a monk at 80?

• 1:03:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I, I think I did it because of having, having to figure out some of this stuff. But, but I, the last time I went on a date was, apart from my wife, was about, what, like, 12, 13 years ago? So I never had to date from an app. The closest thing we had was Hi5. Do you remember Hi5?

• 1:04:01Matthew Hussey?

  No.

• 1:04:02Jay Shetty?

  Hi5 was like an early Facebook, where it'd show you 200 to 300 friends in your network.

• 1:04:07Matthew Hussey?

  Got it.

• 1:04:07Jay Shetty?

  And it was Facebook, but it was, most people, most guys in their teens used it for dating. But the idea of, you, you feel there's so much choice now. Like, you just, like you said, you're just swiping away, you're looking at profiles, everything. But at the same time, you feel like you'll never find someone again. What, where's, what's happening there? What are you seeing there when you're speaking to people?

• 1:04:29Matthew Hussey?

  I think there's a, it's a combination of things. It's, people aren't experiencing, for, for a lot of people, they're not experiencing what they see as an endless ocean of choice.

• 1:04:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Matthew Hussey?

  What they're experiencing is an endless ocean of disappointment.

• 1:04:42Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:04:43Matthew Hussey?

  Of constantly talking to people with it not going anywhere.

• 1:04:47Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:04:47Matthew Hussey?

  Being ghosted. Talking to someone and they, that person never actually takes them up on going on a date. So it's like, we're living a computer game version of dating, but I'm not actually meeting up in real life. Or, you know, meeting someone, it seems to be going well for a few dates and all of a sudden they disappear and, you know, they're, or they're not interested anymore. It fizzles out. And so it's, it's a lot of disappointment. But, but the ironic thing about that is that On the flip side, people experience that choice in a negative way. So what they feel is the person I could be going, I'm going on a date with had endless choice.

• 1:05:22Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:05:23Matthew Hussey?

  And, and that brings out all of my insecurity because I feel like I'm never, how can I possibly compete with what Bo Burnham says is everything all the time?

• 1:05:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Matthew Hussey?

  I can't compete with that. I can't compete with you having access to everyone in a 10 mile radius or more, if you choose to have more. That's something I, how do I possibly live up to that? And that to me is at the root of so many people's lack of confidence, even their lack of authenticity when they go on a date because they're trying to be, they stop trying to connect and they start trying to be something they think the other person wants them to be. And now it's a departure from themselves. Now, to me, the lesson here is the same as, you know, the one of the things I really enjoy about working with people in their love lives is

• 1:06:19Matthew Hussey?

  that there is, it's so transferable and universal to other domains. So if you look at this, this problem of we're afraid, you know, we can't live up to the choice that somebody else has. That's actually true in business too. It's true in content creation, right? Like I, I've had it in the last couple of years. I've had moments where I look at just how many creators there now are. And just how much video content is pumped online every day that I, I feel like I've overeaten and want to be sick.

• 1:06:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Matthew Hussey?

  And I'm like, it can get to a point where even though, because in one sense, being good at something creates confidence, right? If you feel like you're a good partner and you're attractive and you have good qualities and so on, then you feel like a version of competence. And the same is true in content creation. I've been doing what I do for 15 years. I feel very competent when it comes to speaking into a microphone, going on TV, going on stage, making videos. And yet there's still moments where I've had just this little feeling of like,

• 1:07:29Matthew Hussey?

  Do I need, like, does the, does the world need another voice?

• 1:07:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Matthew Hussey?

  Everyone is speaking all the time. And I mean, this is a side note rant, but like, you know, it's so funny. I was watching, there was like some thumbnails for a major podcast. And, and this is no slant on it because I, I understand what happens with this, but it was so funny because I was like, there was one thumbnail that was like, you know, be kind to yourself. And then the next one was, achieve through suffering. There's like another one that's like, push past your limits and, and, and ignore the realistic. And there's another one that's like, motivation is BS. And it was all the same podcast.

• 1:08:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Matthew Hussey?

  But it's like every next thumbnail is like a piece of wisdom that contradicts in some way, the last piece.

• 1:08:19Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:08:20Matthew Hussey?

  That I think is just, I think we're all force feeding ourselves content at the moment. It's just untenable. But when you're a creator in an environment like that, you can get to a point where you're like, does the world need me?

• 1:08:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:32Matthew Hussey?

  Like, if I just stop talking, does it matter? Everyone else is saying it anyway, in a thousand different ways. And

• 1:08:40Matthew Hussey?

  what I tell myself is there is someone that uniquely vibes with my personality and the way I deliver the message. I need, I, it's not about me worrying, how do I grab that person's audience? Or how can I appeal to everybody? It's just about me saying, you know what? William Zinso, there's a wonderful book for life and writing. Someone once said to me, every book on writing is a book on life. But there's a, William Zinso wrote one of the seminal books on writing, which I forget, I think it's on, how to great writing or something. If you look up William Zinso, people will find it.

• 1:09:24Matthew Hussey?

  But he says, you know, when you go to, he said, you may be a aspiring travel writer, who, when you think about going to Tokyo to write about Tokyo, you think, but thousands of travel writers have been to Tokyo and written about Tokyo. What do I possibly have to add?

• 1:09:46Matthew Hussey?

  And he says, but the world hasn't heard what your lens on Tokyo is. The world hasn't heard your take on Tokyo. And that might contain some idea or way of looking at things that other people haven't actually done, or that you may say the same thing, but you may say it fresh.

• 1:10:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:10Matthew Hussey?

  And, and so I tell myself that when I'm creating content, that it's not about appealing to everyone. It really is about saying, I, my take on this is interesting for its own sake to the people that vibe with me. The same is true in dating. That.

• 1:10:27Jay Shetty?

  I see that.

• 1:10:27Matthew Hussey?

  You, there is a specific audience for you and it doesn't have to be ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of people.

• 1:10:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:37Matthew Hussey?

  If you're looking for a serious relationship, it just has to be one.

• 1:10:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:41Matthew Hussey?

  Those are amazing odds.

• 1:10:43Jay Shetty?

  That's a great analogy. I love that. That may, that it resonates. You're so right on both levels. And, and you're spot on. It's, it's weird that in dating too, we want to be attractive to everyone. Yeah. We want everyone to feel just as a content creator. You want everyone to feel a certain way about you. And so I think that's such a great way of looking at it. And yeah, I, I love the idea, the, the writer you mentioned around the voice on Tokyo. Yeah, I always feel that. I'm like, we need more faces and more voices and because there were just so many people that you can connect to, that I can't connect to and vice versa with everyone else. And I see that all the time, that whatever, and whatever field you're in too, right? Like, I always say, like, there's enough space for the best athletes, the best actors, like, there's so many actors.

• 1:11:27Jay Shetty?

  There's so many actresses, but there's always a new person that kind of makes it in and wins the upcoming actor award.

• 1:11:33Matthew Hussey?

  That's really true.

• 1:11:34Jay Shetty?

  Actress award, because you kind of want to discover, and you also want the idea of discovery. And, and I think people almost make it like, I think we've always made it about like. Oh, who's your top three? Who's your top five? And the people that actually are watching and listening, they don't see it in a hierarchy. They just are like, oh, I listened to this group of people.

• 1:11:51Matthew Hussey?

  Right.

• 1:11:52Jay Shetty?

  That's usually how people think about it, I feel like. Even if someone asked me like, who are your favorite authors? I don't, I don't have a categoric like number one author. There's a group of authors that I love reading from.

• 1:12:02Matthew Hussey?

  Yep.

• 1:12:03Jay Shetty?

  And, and I feel like that's how people, and in relationships, obviously, like you're saying, it's, it's a much smaller pool. But you, having that intention is going to be much more clear. But tell me about your take on changing people. Uh, I, I, I wonder how much you get people saying, I'm with someone, I met someone, they have potential, I think I can change them.

• 1:12:22Matthew Hussey?

  There's a quote from, I think it's Jacob M. Broad, where he says, consider how hard it is to change yourself. And you'll understand how foolish it is to think you can change somebody else.

• 1:12:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Matthew Hussey?

  And that

• 1:12:35Matthew Hussey?

  people should really let that sink in.

• 1:12:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Matthew Hussey?

  Because at, in the beginning of January, sixty, seventy, eighty percent of the world decides they want to get fit and healthy.

• 1:12:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:50Matthew Hussey?

  How, what percentage of those people get fit and healthy?

• 1:12:53Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 1:12:54Matthew Hussey?

  Those are people who want to change.

• 1:12:56Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:57Matthew Hussey?

  They didn't make that resolution for nothing. They made it because they want that.

• 1:13:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Matthew Hussey?

  It's not someone saying to them, you should really lose weight and them going, I'm fine. That's someone saying to themselves, I should really lose weight. And they still can't do it. Now,

• 1:13:15Matthew Hussey?

  consider being in a relationship with someone

• 1:13:19Matthew Hussey?

  who's not even admitting that they need to change and thinking that they're going to change.

• 1:13:29Matthew Hussey?

  It's hard, it would, it would be on your heart of behalf, and I'm not saying it would be wrong to trust someone when they say this, but it's still speculative.

• 1:13:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:38Matthew Hussey?

  If you or I in a relationship and you say, Matt, I'm going to change. That's still speculative for me.

• 1:13:47Matthew Hussey?

  You might, it might be too hard.

• 1:13:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:50Matthew Hussey?

  But it might be worth me staying if we have a lot of love between us and you're saying I'm gonna change because I say, you know what, that's if you're really committed to this, then then game on. Let's do this.

• 1:14:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Matthew Hussey?

  But in order for that to happen, you have to first acknowledge that there's something to be changed. And then show desire to change it. And frankly, to have any real credibility, show a plan for changing it.

• 1:14:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Matthew Hussey?

  When two people are in a relationship or two people break up and a woman comes to me and says, you know, two weeks later, he came back and he said he'll never, you know, he wants me back and whatever, and he's not gonna hurt me again. I always say, an important question to ask is, why would it be different this time? Not from an emotion, not from a like charged place, but a real curiosity. I get that you're telling me.

• 1:14:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Has that person even thought about that part?

• 1:14:47Matthew Hussey?

  Right. Like two weeks later, which is a suspect time anyway, right? Because this is like, you're very much in the panic stage of I'll say anything to get you back right now. That's not considered, but fine. This is where we're all. We're two weeks out from our breakup. You're telling me you want me back and you'll never hurt me again.

• 1:15:07Matthew Hussey?

  I get you want me back. But what is it that's that's different this time? That's what I need to understand to feel safe to go down this road with you again. And, and so I think people can and do change. Otherwise you and me would be out of a job. But

• 1:15:31Matthew Hussey?

  change, if you are not the author of your own change.

• 1:15:37Matthew Hussey?

  Then the idea that your partner is somehow gonna will you

• 1:15:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Matthew Hussey?

  To change, you know, it's like telling your partner, I want you to do therapy.

• 1:15:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Matthew Hussey?

  And then going, okay.

• 1:15:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:15:51Matthew Hussey?

  I'll go.

• 1:15:51Jay Shetty?

  And that's the reason most people do go.

• 1:15:54Matthew Hussey?

  Right.

• 1:15:54Jay Shetty?

  I find at least from, from people that I speak to or work with, like you hear that so often that the number one reason people do go to therapy is because their partner kind of forced them into it and they kind of agreed to it.

• 1:16:04Matthew Hussey?

  And that's, and that's a problem because you're hoping that they will see the value in it once they get there and they might.

• 1:16:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Matthew Hussey?

  But it's, you, someone needs to have some skin in the game.

• 1:16:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Matthew Hussey?

  And, and so I just think that

• 1:16:21Matthew Hussey?

  here's what I will say, because there are so many people in relationships or in situationships, if you want to call them that, that are convincing themselves, they're conning themselves that somebody else is one day gonna be different. And at that point, you have to say to yourself,

• 1:16:42Matthew Hussey?

  on what basis have you decided this?

• 1:16:47Matthew Hussey?

  What is it that this idea that they are, that some grand change is imminent? What is that based on?

• 1:16:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Matthew Hussey?

  Is it based on them having said to you, hey, I know that in these last few months or, or years or whatever, this has been a big problem in this relationship and I know that's because of me. And this is something I am committed to changing.

• 1:17:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Matthew Hussey?

  Have they said that? Cause if they haven't.

• 1:17:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Matthew Hussey?

  I have to ask, where is the logic here?

• 1:17:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Matthew Hussey?

  Underpinning your argument that they're one day gonna change.

• 1:17:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Matthew Hussey?

  Oh, this isn't about them that they're gonna change or that they've even expressed a desire or a willingness or a commitment to change. This is about your demons calling the shots.

• 1:17:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Matthew Hussey?

  This is about your fear of losing someone. Cause maybe they don't wanna change. But what, what's really happening is you don't wanna lose someone, you don't wanna be on your own again, you don't wanna take the risk that there's something else out there where you can get your needs met on a higher level. And then it becomes about exploring yourself and, and saying, well,

• 1:18:07Matthew Hussey?

  This person's been this way for years and I've complained about it for years. So is, is this still about them? Can I really keep saying this is about them?

• 1:18:17Jay Shetty?

  That's so powerful, man. That, that, that really like hit a chord and I hope that everyone who's listening and watching, you know, that drops and sinks in for them as well because what you just said there, I think that's the dilemma that most people are in. Do I stay or do I go? And you've just answered like, you know, that's how you know, like that's, it's clear.

• 1:18:35Matthew Hussey?

  You know, I sometimes look at videos of, of myself from years ago and I cringe. Cause I, I'm like, I, you know, it's not, what I'm saying might be factually right.

• 1:18:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:48Matthew Hussey?

  But the way I'm saying it, I was once.

• 1:18:51Jay Shetty?

  It's like looking at old hairstyles. It's the same thing. It's like looking at old fashioned sense, old, old advice.

• 1:18:56Matthew Hussey?

  That looked good.

• 1:18:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. I thought that, yeah.

• 1:18:59Matthew Hussey?

  I was in Beverly Hills when I first got to LA. I was about 25 and, and I was making a video in front of the Beverly Hills sign. I was like, I'm going to get the Beverly Hills sign in the background and, and it was a video about getting over heartbreak.

• 1:19:12Jay Shetty?

  Right.

• 1:19:14Matthew Hussey?

  And I think it was like the three tips for getting over heartbreak, right? Which by the way, as soon as you say three tips for getting over heartbreak, you already don't understand.

• 1:19:25Matthew Hussey?

  Because anyone who's deep in heartbreak is not coming to you going, what are your tips?

• 1:19:32Matthew Hussey?

  They're going, save me from this existential doom.

• 1:19:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Matthew Hussey?

  I am in where life doesn't feel worth living right now.

• 1:19:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:43Matthew Hussey?

  You know, and I was making this video and at the end of the video, a guy came over. It's like a three, four minute video because of course you can sum up how to get over deep, deep loss in three minutes. He came over and he said to me, you've never been heartbroken, have you?

• 1:20:02Jay Shetty?

  Someone who's just watching, just a random.

• 1:20:03Matthew Hussey?

  Listen to the whole, I didn't know he was listening, but he was like in earshot the whole time and he was like, you've never been heartbroken, have you? Now, 25 year old know it all me. I was like, in my head, cause out loud, I went, no, I have and yeah, I have. Yeah. And I like sort of shuffled on. In my head, I went, who do you think you are? Of course I've like, what does this guy know?

• 1:20:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Matthew Hussey?

  Like, oh, you know so much more than me or whatever. He was right.

• 1:20:32Matthew Hussey?

  I had never been truly, I'd had time, I'd had things that like hurt me.

• 1:20:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:20:38Matthew Hussey?

  I'd never been like crushed.

• 1:20:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:42Matthew Hussey?

  And having had that experience in my life now, the video I make is very different.

• 1:20:52Matthew Hussey?

  How I talk about that is extremely different.

• 1:20:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Matthew Hussey?

  And the reason I say that is because I am aware that these things we're talking about here, it's very easy from a distance to say to people, this person hasn't changed in a long time. What makes you think they're going to change now? And why are you still there?

• 1:21:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Matthew Hussey?

  And the why you're still there is because this stuff is so hard. Change is so hard. Leaving a situation.

• 1:21:26Jay Shetty?

  So hard.

• 1:21:28Matthew Hussey?

  It's doing, changing anything is hard. Like, this is one of the things that I sort of, one of my gripes, I suppose, sometimes with some of the self-development rhetoric is that it makes things sound so much easier than they are. And it sort of, it trivializes what are really difficult things. You know, most people, if they could just turn off their depression or their anxiety, if there was just a switch where they could go, they would do it.

• 1:21:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Matthew Hussey?

  And, and it's a terrible thing to feel. So the fact that they are feeling it must mean it's very difficult for them to not feel that.

• 1:22:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Matthew Hussey?

  And the same is true of a relationship. If someone has stayed in an unhappy situation for a long time, that must mean it is incredibly difficult for them internally to make peace with the idea of leaving. And, and what's happening, of course, is in this moment where it's evident to all of their friends and family that they should leave and that they should never look back.

• 1:22:39Matthew Hussey?

  Their abandonment issue that's been around their whole life is screaming at them. Yeah. Screaming, using any tactic it can to get them to stay. And when they were in the relationship, the way the tactic it used maybe was to go into people pleaser mode and even though this person's not treating me right, I'm going to do anything I can to make them happy, make every compromise, make every sacrifice, bend over backwards, subjugate my own needs to try and serve you, all, all in order so that I can keep you. Yeah. And then at a point where you get so unhappy and you say, oh my God, this person's terrible.

• 1:23:21Matthew Hussey?

  I've had to lose myself in this relationship to make them happy. I'm gonna leave, just at the point of leaving, just as your friends are like, thank the Lord, they did it. Yeah. They left. You go home that night and that abandonment demon realizes a different tactic has to be played. So it says, maybe they weren't so bad. Maybe like, we're asking for too much. Maybe like, you know, they did have really great qualities, didn't they? I mean, they were, they were loyal and they, they're a lovely person a lot of the time and they're this and they're that.

• 1:24:04Matthew Hussey?

  And that, that voice starts using a different tactic with you because the only thing that voice wants is, don't be abandoned. Yeah. And it'll do anything in its power to reach that goal. It will ruin your life to achieve that goal because it only has one goal. And the goal is don't, is not make you happy. The goal is make sure you're not abandoned. Yeah. And, and so this stuff is so difficult and it's why people.

• 1:24:34Matthew Hussey?

  Should the, in those moments, if anyone is listening to this and, and if you're listening to this and you're in an unhappy situation, I get it. I get how hard it is and taking the time to really say, one of the things that can help is to say, this, this demon would come out with another person too.

• 1:24:57Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:58Matthew Hussey?

  So it's not really about this person. To that extent, at least, I can depersonalize this and go, it's not really about losing this person. It's just about losing a person.

• 1:25:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Matthew Hussey?

  And, and I'll ha- I can carry this demon with me to the next one and the next one and the next one. So, but I, I, I think people, people should be compassionate to themselves, but if they're struggling to end something difficult, but extend that compassion to your future self.

• 1:25:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Matthew Hussey?

  Because extend, truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life. And if you know that the, all the evidence has told you, you ca- it does not reside here, then compassion towards your future self is leaving, even if for your present self, it's deeply painful.

• 1:25:55Jay Shetty?

  That's so powerful, man. That's, that's amazing. I'm so glad that you brought it to that and your reference to just how people could switch it off. That, I remember when I read that statistic the first time that we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts per day, but eighty percent of them are repeated. And that's, that was the one that really hit me. And I was like, yeah, that's what's happening. Like, if someone's saying that to themselves, what you just said about abandonment, the idea of, if someone keeps repeating to themselves without even knowing, subconsciously, don't be abandoned, don't be abandoned, don't be abandoned, don't be abandoned. And that's just repeating over and over again. When you hear the advice of like, oh yeah, you should be able to leave or walk away. Of course, it's hard because that's one thought amongst sixty thousand thoughts or whatever it is.

• 1:26:37Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:37Jay Shetty?

  And so. It's a complete rewiring that needs to take place and it's not just about cutting the wire, right? Like we're so, we're just, oh yeah, I'm just gonna cut that thought out and it doesn't work like that. It's completely shifting it around. And so I love what you just said that, you know, I'm so glad that you took this conversation there because without that, actually, it's not even possible to rewire because you were just trying to cut a wire that can't be cut. It's not possible to cut it.

• 1:27:03Matthew Hussey?

  And even if you cut it in the form of ending this relationship, the issue's still there and you'll latch on to the first person you find on the way out.

• 1:27:10Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, exactly. Matthew, we've talked about so many things today. I want to ask you, is there anything that I haven't asked you to share before we dive into the final five? Is there something that's in your heart, in your mind, that's intuitively there for you that you feel like you need to share with everyone today before we dive into the final five?

• 1:27:26Matthew Hussey?

  I suppose, if I may, there's, I've been working on something recently that I know these subjects can, as you said, seem very abstract. Even when you talk about, when we talk about confidence, it's a very hard thing to latch on to and figure out, well, okay, I want to be more confident. I want to be confident enough to leave. Or I'm single, but I want to be confident enough to approach that person. It's a very hard thing to grab on to. What does it mean to be more confident? How do I actually do it? I put together something that I said, if in 30 days I wanted to, if I had a gun to my head and it was you have

• 1:28:09Matthew Hussey?

  to improve someone's confidence in 30 days, what would you do? I said, well, maybe I'd create five challenges that were specifically engineered around the psychology of confidence. And my theory with this is if you can give yourself a genuine, not like, you know, completely transform everything about your confidence in 30 days, because we all know that's BS. The world is full of these kind of hyperbolic promises. But if people can, I believe that when you can create like a crack in the doorway and that shows you what's possible, that

• 1:28:50Matthew Hussey?

  momentum leads to something bigger and bigger and bigger. I don't think someone starts by saying, I know I can be a millionaire. I think someone starts by saying, I made two grand this month. I bet I could make two and a half next month.

• 1:29:03Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:03Matthew Hussey?

  And then making two and a half and go, I think I see a way to four.

• 1:29:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:07Matthew Hussey?

  You know, that to me is how belief is built. It's incremental. And so I said, if I can get people a 30 day significant incremental shift in their confidence, then whatever goals they have this year, that will give them the momentum to charge into those goals differently.

• 1:29:24Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 1:29:25Matthew Hussey?

  Um, so I put together a place where I've got, there's an initial kickoff call that I'm doing with everybody, where I'm going to take them through those five.

• 1:29:33Jay Shetty?

  I love that.

• 1:29:33Matthew Hussey?

  Challenges. We're going to do them, go through them together as a blueprint for 30 days. And then the timer of the 30 days is going to start. And everyone's goal as a community is to do those five challenges over those 30 days.

• 1:29:45Jay Shetty?

  That's awesome.

• 1:29:46Matthew Hussey?

  Literally engineered them based on the psychology of what I've learned about confidence over 15 years. Um, if I may, I would say.

• 1:29:54Jay Shetty?

  I'd love that. Where can people sign up?

• 1:29:56Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah. If you go to M H challenge.com.

• 1:29:59Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:00Matthew Hussey?

  That's my initials, M H and challenge.com. There's a place where people can sign up and they can join that challenge. But we already ran it once and it was the, the results have been really beautiful because everyone's writing in.

• 1:30:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Matthew Hussey?

  I just ticked off this challenge. I just did this. I just did this. So it's been a very unifying thing for people and we're about to do, we're running it again now. So people can come and join at M H challenge.

• 1:30:25Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Everyone who's listening and watching, make sure you do sign up at M H challenge.com. I don't want you to miss out on that. That sounds, that sounds awesome. And it's so much more fun doing it with other people and.

• 1:30:34Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Jay Shetty?

  Taking it through these five challenges.

• 1:30:36Matthew Hussey?

  And we know our life changes by, by those practical things.

• 1:30:40Jay Shetty?

  Thousand percent, thousand percent. Like I've, I've never changed without being, I've always said to everyone, it's three things. Coaching, consistency and community. Like those are the three things. If you want to change any area of your life.

• 1:30:53Matthew Hussey?

  Yep.

• 1:30:53Jay Shetty?

  If you don't have coaching, you don't have consistency and you don't have community, you're not going to change it.

• 1:30:57Matthew Hussey?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Jay Shetty?

  And so that's exactly what this is. So M H challenge.com is the place to sign up everyone. And, uh, Matthew, I've got the final five for you. So these have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum.

• 1:31:08Matthew Hussey?

  Okay.

• 1:31:08Jay Shetty?

  A sentence, I don't know what the official definition is, but I make it seven to 10 words.

• 1:31:12Matthew Hussey?

  So one word or one sentence.

• 1:31:13Jay Shetty?

  One word or one sentence for each of these. Okay. So Matthew, I see these are your final five. The first question is, what is the worst relationship advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:31:25Matthew Hussey?

  Find someone who loves you more than you love them.

• 1:31:30Jay Shetty?

  Ah, yeah, okay, great, good, good answer. All right, question number two. What's the best relationship advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

• 1:31:40Matthew Hussey?

  Make a list of the things that are truly important for you to find in a partner, and then be that list.

• 1:31:51Jay Shetty?

  Love that, great advice. All right, question number three. One word to one sentence again, define love for you.

• 1:31:58Matthew Hussey?

  Generous interpretation of other people's behavior.

• 1:32:05Jay Shetty?

  That's a great definition. I was not expecting that. That's awesome. That is a great definition. All right, question number four. What is... How would you describe your current purpose in life?

• 1:32:18Matthew Hussey?

  To make people feel less alone in their suffering.

• 1:32:24Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. I love that, man. That's, that's really special. All right, question number five. If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:32:34Matthew Hussey?

  I don't think I can beat the golden rule. The Confucian, you know,

• 1:32:43Matthew Hussey?

  you know, do to other people or treat other people how you would want to be treated. I don't think I can be Confucius on that.

• 1:32:52Jay Shetty?

  I love it, I love it. Matthew, I see everyone, please, please, please, go follow Matthew on all social media platforms, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. Go and check out the M H challenge.com. Don't forget that you're getting five challenges in confidence with Matthew for that as well. So make sure you go and check out M H challenge.com. And please tag me and Matthew on Instagram, on Twitter, on any platform that you use with your biggest takeaways from this episode. We want to see them. You know that I love sharing those insights and leave a review as well with your big takeaway from Matthew's episode. Matthew, thank you so much for doing this. I hope this is the first of many that we get to do this for.

• 1:33:31Matthew Hussey?

  I do too. And can I say, it's been, it's been an unbelievable pleasure to do this and you are... You're incredible at what you do and the way you bring yourself even to an interview like this is people don't realize the level of pro in the way you interviewed, the way you listen, the way you like, I sat here learning about listening from watching you listen. And that's exactly what we talked about in a relationship, right? You see something in somebody else that's that they're doing really well. And you go, wow, I want to, I want to be as good a listener as Jay is right now. And, and to watch you, you know, we have mutual friends,

• 1:34:12Matthew Hussey?

  but to watch what you have done over the last few years is a, is a truly extraordinary thing to, to behold. I know what kind of resourcefulness and initiative and proactiveness it must have taken for you to build this thing that you've built, which is just extraordinary. And, you know, I, I don't, I'm sure you hear it many, many times a day, but it is, you know, from one creator to another, I look at it and it is, it's something very special, what you've done. So congratulations.

• 1:34:51Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, man. I appreciate that. It's very kind. I really, that means a lot to me. And I felt how genuine that was. And, uh, well, I, the way, reason why I was listening so well is because you were speaking so well. This is easy to listen to. I was just sitting there going, this is great. Like, I'm like, this, people are gonna love this. This can make sense. And so it was easy to listen to you. And, and I think that's part of a relationship. You want to, you want to sit down with someone that, that makes it easy.

• 1:35:16Matthew Hussey?

  You enjoy the conversation with.

• 1:35:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you enjoy the conversation that you're with. So, no, and the feeling's mutual, man. Like, I remember, you know, I've been watching you for years and years and years and to see what you've created and the evolution of your work and just also just what I, what I really appreciate is the dedication to what you do and who you help and how you help them. I think it's so, you know, I think we live in a world where it's so easy to like, you know, now I'm a crypto influencer and now I'm a, you know, NFT influencer, whatever it is. And it's like to dedicate your life to. To something that is big enough to be dedicated to, but to just be, see you so focused. And even in today's conversation, I can see that, you know, it's like you can tell when someone's really well read in an area and has really thought about it from like pop

• 1:36:01Jay Shetty?

  culture to history to, you know, that I love that. I love meeting someone who's immersed in their, in their space and you, you demonstrate that beautifully.

• 1:36:09Matthew Hussey?

  Thank you, man. I'll remember that.

• 1:36:10Jay Shetty?

  Thank you for that. Yeah. Thank you for dedicating your life to, and especially, you know, helping people suffer less in their relationships, which can be such a great source of suffering. So, thank you, man.

• 1:36:21Matthew Hussey?

  Appreciate you, man.

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

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• 1:36:31Jay Shetty?

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• 1:36:41Speaker 02

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• 1:36:51Jay Shetty?

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• 1:37:05Speaker 02

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• 1:37:22Jay Shetty?

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• 1:37:29Speaker 02

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