How the creator economy is making you talk like the internet

Online linguist Adam Aleksic explains how he goes viral decoding internet slang. Plus, why making a living online means working for “the algorithm,” in part 2 of our creator economy series. TED Radio Hour+ subscribers now get access to bonus episodes, with more ideas from TED speakers and a behind the scenes look with our producers. A Plus subscription also lets you listen to regular episodes (like this one!) without sponsors. Sign-up at plus.npr.org/ted http://plus.npr.org/ted. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:17Manoush Zomorodi?

  This is the TED Radio Hour. Each week, groundbreaking TED Talks. Our job now is to dream big. Delivered at TED conferences. To bring about the future we want to see. Around the world. To understand who we are. From those talks, we bring you speakers and ideas that will surprise you.

• 0:37Speaker 02

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• 0:39Manoush Zomorodi?

  Challenge you.

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• 0:42Manoush Zomorodi?

  And even change you. I literally feel like I'm a different person. Yes. Do you feel that way? Ideas worth spreading. From TED and NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. Today on the show, part two of our exploration of the creator economy. How people are making money off of creativity. And what creativity even means in the age of AI.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  This is day one of becoming a full-time travel influencer.

• 1:13Speaker 04

  I did a lot of years everywhere this past week.

• 1:16Manoush Zomorodi?

  If given the opportunity, more than half of Gen Z in the US say they'd like to be a social media influencer. Making a living by creating content, often in the form of short videos online. Like Adam Alexic.

• 1:32Speaker 05

  I speak in a, what I call, an educational influencer accent. I'll talk very quickly. I'll stress more words to keep you watching my video. And all of that is part of this expected way to talk through the algorithm.

• 1:44Manoush Zomorodi?

  Adam calls himself etymology nerd on social media, where he has over 3 million followers across platforms like TikTok and Instagram.

• 1:52Speaker 05

  I studied linguistics in college, and the classic question you ask yourself when you're graduating with a linguistics degree is, well, what do I do next?

• 1:59Manoush Zomorodi?

  Yeah.

• 2:00Speaker 05

  I thought, you know, I might as well give social media a try.

• 2:05Speaker 06

  I made a bird language. It's called.

• 2:07Manoush Zomorodi?

  Adam started posting about language three years ago.

• 2:10Speaker 06

  The octave indicates mood, the semitone indicates.

• 2:12Manoush Zomorodi?

  Including an early series about his own habit of communicating.

• 2:16Speaker 06

  Here I go.

• 2:16Manoush Zomorodi?

  Like a bird. Other videos explain phonetics.

• 2:21Speaker 06

  I'm pretty sure the first syllable is a very strong d.

• 2:23Manoush Zomorodi?

  Like the sounds singer Cardi B makes.

• 2:24Speaker 06

  Obviously, the "r" is held longer than a regular trill.

• 2:27Manoush Zomorodi?

  All the while, he watched as the audience grew, thanks to, yes, his endearing nerdiness, but also how the algorithm responded.

• 2:36Speaker 06

  Uses one of two words for tea, and which one they use depends on how the word.

• 2:39Manoush Zomorodi?

  Take one of his most popular videos, which explains why some of us use the word chai while others call it tea.

• 2:46Speaker 06

  Now, chai spread along land trade routes. Give me the word chai.

• 2:49Manoush Zomorodi?

  This video has been watched over 16 million times.

• 2:52Speaker 05

  I think I've known about this thing since high school, and I didn't even consider making a video about it for the longest time because I thought, wow, everybody knows this, but I guess people don't.

• 3:00Manoush Zomorodi?

  In the video, Adam stands in front of a map, pointing out centuries-old trade routes.

• 3:05Speaker 05

  Every language basically has one of these two words. The word chai spread by land along Silk Road landed trade routes.

• 3:11Speaker 06

  Give me the word chai in languages like Hindi, Russian, Persian, and Arab.

• 3:14Speaker 05

  And then the word tea spread along ocean trade routes.

• 3:17Speaker 06

  Now, every country in Europe wants to get their hands on some tea, so they start trading with the Dutch through ocean trade routes.

• 3:22Manoush Zomorodi?

  There's an intense, slightly manic feel to the whole thing, like he's rushing through this history lesson, even though every word he says has been chosen with care.

• 3:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I opened with a hook.

• 3:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  First, there's the intro.

• 3:35Speaker 05

  Oh, you didn't know about how every country uses one of two words for tea? So, right off the bat, I use the word "you", which is a second-person pronoun, which always goes more viral because people like videos about them. So if I just said as an intro instead, "This is a video about chai and tea", that's not going to go viral, even if it's the exact same content, the exact same, like, idea.

• 3:55Manoush Zomorodi?

  Then there's the storyline.

• 3:57Speaker 05

  It's maybe slightly reductive, like Polish has the word "erbata", but I'm sort of simplifying the story because simple storytelling is so important to go viral on social media. You cannot have multiple narratives. You have to tell one narrative at a time on social media.

• 4:12Manoush Zomorodi?

  And his delivery.

• 4:14Speaker 05

  I am talking quickly, using my educational influencer accent. I am pointing around in the map and kind of moving around, like, creating visual disruptions. And all of that kind of is part of how you go viral.

• 4:27Manoush Zomorodi?

  But also, in addition to history lessons, Adam turns the spotlight on words his followers are using right now.

• 4:34Speaker 05

  You know how the phrase "he cooked" is a good thing, but the phrase "he's cooked"

• 4:37Manoush Zomorodi?

  Which seem to change by the day.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  The most interesting thing about the word "skibidi" is that

• 4:42Speaker 06

  The thing about W Riz is that W doesn't mean win.

• 4:44Manoush Zomorodi?

  His special sauce is explaining to his users why they talk the way they do.

• 4:50Manoush Zomorodi?

  But the algorithm likes it, too. So is he working the algorithm? Or is the algorithm working him? Working everyone who makes and consumes content. Today on the show, we're continuing our series exploring the creator economy, how we're buying and selling creativity, and how it's changing what we value. Last time, we looked at the business side with entrepreneur and artist Nancy Strickler. This time, how the creator economy is influencing our culture and language.

• 5:22Manoush Zomorodi?

  So in the last couple of years, Adam has parlayed his videos into a multi-hyphenate career.

• 5:28Speaker 05

  I'm a linguist influencer and author of Algo Speak.

• 5:31Manoush Zomorodi?

  At 24, he makes what he calls a decent salary for a college grad who majored in a relatively obscure field.

• 5:39Speaker 05

  In college, my research was more focused on government and linguistics, and my undergrad stuff was all about language nationalism in Serbia and Croatia. So that's how I ended up in that line of work.

• 5:50Manoush Zomorodi?

  I really don't mean to be impertinent by asking. I know some people will say, like, how can this guy, he's like in his early 20s? How can he call himself a linguist?

• 6:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, of course.

• 6:01Manoush Zomorodi?

  Some people might come across you and think, oh, my God, anybody can be an expert about anything.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  It is true that I have an undergrad degree in linguistics, not a graduate degree. I think what I'm doing is actually uniquely suited to studying slang etymology, because to really understand what it means for something to spread online, you have to be online yourself. And I definitely never knew I'd end up studying social media linguistics, but it's just happened that I started making videos about language, about etymology, on these platforms. And I started noticing my own speech being restricted a little bit. I started noticing how I would reroute my language around platform constraints.

• 6:41Manoush Zomorodi?

  Can you give me an example of that? Like what?

• 6:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you can't say the word "kill" on TikTok. I mean, I guess you can, but it's suppressed. Your video is going to be shown to fewer people. So people turn to alternatives, like on a live.

• 6:55Speaker 07

  What happens after you unalive?

• 6:59Manoush Zomorodi?

  I had not heard of unalive until I read your book, actually. Clearly, I don't hang out with enough young people.

• 7:09Manoush Zomorodi?

  But like, people started saying unalive instead of someone was killed or dead to get around censorship or get around restrictions on language on these platforms.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  Exactly. It's a more platform-safe alternative.

• 7:25Speaker 05

  As far as we can tell, the word unalive started in 2013 with an ultimate Spider-Man meme that then turned into a Roblox meme in the late 2010s that then started being used by the mental health community on TikTok. But then I also found that people were using the word unalive offline. There are kids in middle schools who talk about Hamlet contemplating unaliving himself in their classroom essays.

• 7:48Speaker 06

  Or a classroom discussion on the unaliving that happens in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

• 7:53Manoush Zomorodi?

  Here's Adam Alexic on the TED stage.

• 7:56Speaker 06

  And these aren't hypothetical situations. These are actual examples drawn from the thousand-plus middle school teachers I've surveyed about this word. Clearly, for such a recent word, unalive shows up in an impressive range of scenarios. But the main function appears to be euphemistic. Many kids use the word when they're uncomfortable talking about topics like death, since unalive sounds like a less scary word. And in many ways, this is nothing new. We've been euphemizing death as long as we've had language. The word deceased, for example, comes from Latin decesus, which was a euphemism for the previous Latin word for death, moros. Apparently, even the Stoic Romans were as queasy about death as today's middle schoolers.

• 8:42Speaker 06

  But there is a crucial difference between unalive and deceased. And that's that we only got the word unalive because you can't say "kill" on TikTok. They have a mysterious algorithm that removes or suppresses any posts that might violate their community guidelines. So people got around with that with the word unalive. The middle schoolers don't know this. They see the word online or hear it from friends and assume it's a word like any other. And fair enough, you probably didn't know where the word deceased came from, unless you're some kind of etymology nerd.

• 9:15Speaker 06

  But decease didn't happen because it was impossible to carve the word "mors" into an ancient Roman tablet. We are entering an entirely new era of language change driven by social media algorithms.

• 9:28Speaker 05

  The algo speak, that's what it's traditionally called, this sort of platform circumvention, is only the tip of the iceberg of how these platforms are affecting our language. I also noticed, you know, myself playing into viral trends. I look at other influencers doing this too. I look at attention grabbing language because these platforms are designed to monetize your attention and all the incentive structure is there for influencers to replicate. How do we grab people's attention? So, language is also kind of revolving more around ephemeral trends and what grabs attention. And we have algorithms creating in-groups and echo chambers through how they categorize users. And these in-groups actually serve as incubators for language formation.

• 10:10Speaker 05

  And all of this is sort of what I call algo speak, the expanded definition, that our language is broadly being shaped by social media algorithms right now.

• 10:19Manoush Zomorodi?

  Can we talk about the first part of that word, algo speak? Algo meaning algorithms, right? Like, let's talk about the algorithm. As a former tech reporter, I'm like, well, it's not the algorithm.

• 10:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was about to say.

• 10:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  There's like millions of algorithms, right? But when people use it, what are they referring to? And can you walk us through what exactly you have noticed or how you've learned about how it does work in certain places?

• 10:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I'm so glad you brought up that it's not the algorithm because one of the biggest tenets we have when talking about the algorithm is to simplify it, to personify it. And that makes it feel more normal what's happening, I guess. It is a lot of different algorithms. How users are classified is one algorithm. How content is classified is another algorithm. And actually, even within those algorithms, there's a bunch of sub-algorithms that are all doing their own thing with content classification. So, there's a lot of different processes running at the same time. And all of these are playing a part in the greater machination of how a video ends up from someone uploading it onto your for you feed.

• 11:20Manoush Zomorodi?

  I mean, I'm thinking of myself. I love how I have bullied the algorithm on Instagram into only giving me nature and pets. I've protected my experience on that platform. But it obviously knows I'm a middle-aged woman who likes to go on long walks and doesn't want to look at the news when she's on Instagram. Yeah, tell me about like, is that basically what we're talking about here?

• 11:46Speaker 05

  There's a lot of sense that you can train your algorithm, that you can personalize it. It is, after all, called the for you page. And people often say things like, oh, you know, I built my own for you page, or the algorithm really knows me. And I think this is also playing into that idea of training your algorithm. It is a simplified story. Yes, you partially have trained some aspect of what content is being recommended to you, but also on your Instagram feed, that is mostly outdoors content. Every third video is probably an advertisement. And you don't actually want to see the advertisement. So is the algorithm really for you? No, it's kind of both for you and for the platform's benefit. And every video that's shown to you, every video that shows up on the for you feed, is actually something that benefits the platform definitionally,

• 12:31Speaker 05

  because it gets your engagement, it gets your attention.

• 12:35Speaker 05

  So the things that spread are more for the platform than for you, but it's all kind of packaged under this guise of for you. And I think the personalization is one of the most dangerous things, because we really forget what's going on on a broader level.

• 12:51Manoush Zomorodi?

  In a minute, more with online linguist Adam Alexic on how social media algorithms are influencing influencers online.

• 13:00Speaker 05

  It's constantly changing what priorities and incentives it's rewarding. And influencers have to just feel it out. They have to be aware of the algorithm by interacting with it on a daily basis.

• 13:11Manoush Zomorodi?

  On the show today, the creator economy, part two. I'm Manoush Zamirodi, and you're listening to NPR's TED Radio Hour. We'll be right back.

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• 14:58Manoush Zomorodi?

  It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. On the show, part two of our look at the creator economy. Our guide today is creator Adam Alexic. Adam is known as Etymology Nerd to his 3 million followers online, where he's cracked the code of how to go viral. His videos dissect how different people use different words, like "demure."

• 15:26Manoush Zomorodi?

  "Demure." Is "demure" changed forever? Can you explain to people what's happened to "demure"?

• 15:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, there was a "demure" trend about being demure, mindful and cutesy in the workplace.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  I make up for work. Very demure.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  Playing into cultural ideas of reservedness.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  With a green crease. Not "dumure."

• 15:42Manoush Zomorodi?

  "Demure" used to mean modest and reserved.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  I'm eating a salad. Very demure.

• 15:48Manoush Zomorodi?

  Then it trended on TikTok, where understatement became performative. How ironic. If you don't know how to keep it demure for at least five minutes. It went everywhere, from teens to celebrities like the Kardashians and Jennifer Lopez.

• 16:00Speaker 09

  I always do this, I drink from the bottle. Very demure.

• 16:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, there is this huge Gen Z aesthetic of nonchalance. And "demure" was sort of making fun of that, but at the same time, I think some people used it genuinely.

• 16:13Manoush Zomorodi?

  This new use of Demure made it Dictionary.com's Word of the Year in 2024.

• 16:21Speaker 06

  And it's not just new words to avoid algorithmic censorship. The very structure of social media is changing where words come from, how words get popular, and how quickly those words spread. I believe some of you might be familiar with this song.

• 16:42Speaker 06

  Sticking out your giat for the Rizler.

• 16:46Speaker 06

  You're so skibidi. You're so phantom tax. I just wanna be your sigma.

• 16:54Speaker 06

  Freaking come here. Give me your Ohio.

• 16:58Speaker 06

  For those of you out of the loop, these are the lyrics to the Rizler song, a meme that went massively viral last year. It's full of current middle school slang words like riz, giat, and skibidi, and was instrumental in popularizing those words to a broader audience.

• 17:26Speaker 06

  Social media algorithms reward repetition. If a song is funny or catchy and people interact with it, the algorithm will then push that song to more people since it's proven to drive engagement on the app.

• 17:39Speaker 06

  The same is true of memes, or words in general, since trending metadata like hashtags will also be pushed to people who previously showed interest in similar content. Creators are very aware of this. And we actively use trending audios or hashtags to make our videos perform better. In the wake of the Rizler song, for example, we saw an explosion of people making videos with the words riz, giat, and skibidi because they knew those videos would do well.

• 18:09Speaker 06

  And as a result, the word spread. Language has always been a little bit like a virus. Words are transmitted from one host to another, reproducing and changing as they infect different people along social networks. But now the literally viral nature of social media is accelerating this process from start to finish. In the span of just a year, a word like riz can go from complete obscurity to becoming the Oxford English Dictionary Word of the Year.

• 18:41Speaker 06

  And the algorithm is the culprit, but influencers are the accomplices. We use whatever tricks we can to keep you entertained because that makes our videos do better, which helps us earn a living. This means that we often end up creating and spreading words that help the system.

• 19:01Manoush Zomorodi?

  Clearly, you understand how the algorithm works in that you have been able to leverage it in a way that gets more people interested in the roots of language and explaining it to them. How did you do that?

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Absolutely. There's sort of a deal with the devil that has to happen, right? You have to accept as a creator, yes, I'm playing into what the algorithm is rewarding. And they're going to reward, for example, trends. So I started talking about trending language, also analyzing the trending language where it came from. It, you know, it's good for my business that the word skibidi goes viral because now I get to talk about the etymology of skibidi. And because people are socially fascinated in this phenomenon, my video is going to go more viral than an analysis of the word chair or table or whatever. That's less interesting to people.

• 19:48Manoush Zomorodi?

  Let's pause. A footnote, skibidi. What's it mean? Where'd it come from for those who don't know like me?

• 19:55Speaker 05

  I feel like at this point, at least most people have heard of skibidi somewhere in the news. It was just added to the Cambridge Dictionary. But skibidi is a nonsense word. It can be used completely randomly as an interjection that doesn't mean anything, but it could be an intensifier. So you could say, "skibidi riz is like very intense riz in either a good or a bad direction."

• 20:13Manoush Zomorodi?

  Meaning charisma, just, you know.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 20:15Manoush Zomorodi?

  It's NPR. We have an older audience.

• 20:17Speaker 05

  No, of course. Yeah, very important to clarify. Yeah, so these are all kind of called brain rot words. And it's this meme aesthetic of supposedly words that are bad for your brain. As a linguist, I have to say there is nothing actually about these words that is mentally deleterious at all. But it is sort of the catch-all meme aesthetic of nonsensical repetition of algorithmic slang. And skibidi comes out of that YouTube short series. Riz comes from this Twitch streamer, Kai Senat. But both are kind of taking on this role of absurdity in the algorithmic kind of milieu. It's more of, it's absurd because it's absurd because it's being recommended to us by the algorithm. And then middle schoolers start saying it because it sounds funny.

• 20:58Manoush Zomorodi?

  And then when older people start saying it, they stop saying it.

• 21:00Speaker 05

  Exactly. I think we're well past skibidi. I think skibidi is on its last throes right now. It may be in the dictionary, but it's getting less and less popular in the middle schools.

• 21:09Manoush Zomorodi?

  In the middle schools, yeah. I feel like these new words come up and I'm like, I can't, I don't know. By the time I understand it, they'll have moved on. So what's the point? But that's probably smart because nobody wants to hear me saying skibidi anyway. Except they just did.

• 21:23Speaker 05

  Well, you know, some of the trends that really stick out, I think they have shorter lifespans because it is that thing that you mentioned. Once your grandmother starts saying skibidi, you no longer want to say skibidi yourself.

• 21:32Manoush Zomorodi?

  Hey, I'm not a grandma yet.

• 21:34Speaker 05

  I wasn't calling you a grandmother.

• 21:35Manoush Zomorodi?

  Okay.

• 21:37Speaker 05

  But there is that aspect to how trends die out. That once it starts being used by an out group, it initially had value because it was in the in group. And now it no longer has that value, so it no longer has any cachet as a joke. And then we move on and there's constantly new jokes percolating. I also think it's important to pay attention to the jokes that don't seem as obvious or don't even appear as jokes in the first place. I think these are the words that are actually going to change our language more permanently. Words that are percolating from usually minority groups or from more fringe phenomena. Those are the ones that actually end up influencing our language. So I talk about the distinction between skibidi and low key.

• 22:22Speaker 05

  So low key is this adverb. It's been around since the 1800s as a word meaning like muted or something.

• 22:29Speaker 05

  But it was recently popularized in an adverbial sense. And this is from African American English where people would say, oh, that party was low key good.

• 22:36Manoush Zomorodi?

  Meaning like chill?

• 22:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, low key, yeah, it kind of means like, you know, nonchalant. I don't want to say it too much, being more low key about it, right? It's muted. It's mutedness, reservedness.

• 22:47Manoush Zomorodi?

  Also, the way you just use nonchalant, not how I use nonchalant.

• 22:52Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, the word nonchalant is evolving as well. There's been an internet meme since like 2023 about how people are using this. So I guess it's tough being a translator when you're also deep in the kind of algorithm yourself. But yeah, so low key, I think, and these changing definitions that we see with a lot of other words are also happening, but don't stick out as much as skibidi. And I think it's those words that don't stick out that are going to have a greater impact on our language hundreds of years from now.

• 23:20Manoush Zomorodi?

  So what you're just saying actually is explaining a lot of my 15-year-old daughter's behavior. I mean, teenagers, whatever, twas ever thus, every generation has its own way of rebelling. But nonchalance is definitely a thing.

• 23:36Speaker 05

  Oh, absolutely. Also, an important point about the 15-year-olds, I think these are, these kids are the bellwethers of where language is going to go. They are the ones that are actually most flexible with their linguistic behaviors. The elementary schoolers aren't quite as tapped into social trends yet, or as searching to create identities. And older people are more entrenched in our ideas of how language should be, or what words are supposed to sound like. And middle schoolers are forming their identity. They're trying to differentiate themselves from adults and from previous generations. They're trying to build a collective kind of identity for themselves. And so they are more flexible with adopting language. So you should be paying attention to your 15-year-old if you want to really understand what the state of the English language is right now.

• 24:22Manoush Zomorodi?

  So I guess someone would say, like, yeah, but in my, you know, at my school, I remember there was, like, certain words, this is kind of gross, but in 4th grade, there was a kid who would spit at people, but only using his glands under his tongue, and he called it a gleek.

• 24:39Speaker 05

  Huh.

• 24:40Manoush Zomorodi?

  This is super weird. But then it just took off in the 4th grade. It was like, boys would gleek the girl that they liked. Gross. But also, clearly, good word, because it's stuck with me for all these years. But, but that's always been the case. Like, how is it different than, you know, social groups coming up with their own language? Or, for that matter, like, the printing press, the, the radio?

• 25:03Speaker 05

  I'm so glad we're bringing up the printing press and the radio, because the medium is the message. The way we're talking is going to shape the way that trends diffuse. And I'm not going to say, oh, it's new that humans are using language to communicate or come up with social trends. No, that is a fundamentally human activity. And we will always do it, and we will always find new ways to do it. But the algorithm is now mediating that interaction in the same way that the classroom did with the word gleek. The story of language as a whole is told by what mediums we're using to communicate.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Before we had parchment and papyrus and everything, we relied a lot more on oral communication. Stories would be told through rhyme and meter. And then we moved to parchment and paper, and people were really concerned about that at the time. I think Plato was concerned about brain rot from people not memorizing things as much. Then we start segmenting our stories differently with paper. We can have chapters. We can actually put spaces between words as opposed to stone tablets where all the words were smooshed together. And then we start mass producing things with the printing press. And the printing press now allows for vernacular language to reproduce and kind of solidify also at the same time the traditional gatekeepers of who gets to control how we talk. And so for a while, the printing press is the dominant mode of communication.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  You have a lot of standard language being replicated in all these different languages rather than just church Latin.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  And the internet finally creates this opportunity for the written replication of informal speech. You have people using slang words. You have people writing in lowercase and using abbreviations. And this is sort of this revolution in who can talk and who can vote on what language is supposed to be like. And that sort of lays the foundation for what I think is the new inflection point.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Algorithms govern the distribution of content. I don't know what type of videos I'm gonna post on here yet.

• 27:01Speaker 10

  Okay, but why is your content not blowing up if you're doing everything right?

• 27:06Speaker 05

  Things don't go viral unless they work for the algorithm. And what that means is that the language we're using is always sort of performing for the algorithm as well. And this is this medium that is always there, that is always shaping how ideas diffuse online. And that means any idea that diffuses is either good for the algorithm or it's created for the algorithm. That means using words like "unalive." That means playing into trends like "skibidi." That means a lot of creators are just incentivized to come up with new words or use trendy language because the algorithm sees that language as metadata. In the past, metadata was something like a hashtag, something that gives you information about the content. Now the algorithm sees everything. The natural language processing,

• 27:51Speaker 05

  computer vision components, all sub-algorithms analyze that. And they create this numerical representation of what a video is. And they already know what the video is about. But the word is part of that. So we're incentivized to use words that aid in the distribution of our own video.

• 28:09Manoush Zomorodi?

  Hmm.

• 28:12Manoush Zomorodi?

  Just to follow up on, you know, the classic Marshall McEwen idea of the medium is the message. The algorithm is the one that's shaping language. But to be clear, the algorithm is programmed by people, people who work for very large tech companies who want to monetize.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  Absolutely, and they create those structures that are then replicated by other influencers down the line that, oh, you need engagement, you need retention, which is how long people watch a video, you need likes. And so now, as an influencer, I'm trying to make all my videos to get people to watch the whole time, and I want to get likes, otherwise the video is not going to be distributed. So I have to play into that. I also want to note that there's emergent social phenomena that aren't programmed just by these engineers. It's not purely like this top-down process. There is social expectations that come with each medium.

• 29:07Speaker 05

  Live from NPR News in Washington, I'm Dave Mattingly. On NPR, you have like an NPR voice that's been studied.

• 29:14Speaker 11

  President Trump is making his first official trip of this term.

• 29:17Speaker 05

  Clearly, I am not good at adapting into this.

• 29:19Manoush Zomorodi?

  Oh, I think they've been trying to get rid of that for years, though.

• 29:22Speaker 05

  But at the same time-

• 29:23Manoush Zomorodi?

  And yet, here I am.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  You're speaking in a, maybe a more radio-friendly voice, I'm speaking in a more algorithm-friendly voice, because that's what we've learned to talk when we're kind of communicating like this.

• 29:34Manoush Zomorodi?

  Wait, somebody might be like, what do you mean an algorithm-friendly voice? Define that.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  There's actually a bunch of different types of influencer accents, but you're probably familiar with the most famous sort of lifestyle influencer accent, the, hey, guys, welcome to NPR, today we're going to be talking about algorithms. It has that uptalk, it has the rising tone.

• 29:55Manoush Zomorodi?

  Well, because you're not getting any response from anyone, so you're like, trying to have a conversation with yourself, essentially.

• 30:01Speaker 05

  Exactly, this is a one-sided communication, that is an important part of shaping it, but that's not all, you know, I could just continuously monotone deadpan into the camera, and that wouldn't go viral, because there's an expectation of how people are supposed to talk. And this sort of lifestyle influencer accent came out of the previous YouTube accent, which came out of the Valley Girl accent. So there's layers of social prestige in how we talk and there's an expectation of what the lifestyle influencer is supposed to sound like.

• 30:26Manoush Zomorodi?

  Now, wait, wait, wait. Are you saying that the human brain is attracted to those and therefore it gets more listens and therefore the algorithm continues to push it? Or are you saying that the algorithm is hearing those intonations and pushing it harder on people?

• 30:39Speaker 05

  No, I don't think the algorithm is picking up on accent intonations. I think there is actual human bias toward social prestige. We evaluate any kind of social situation through our lens of like, is this something worth listening to? And then like our slight scroll patterns get replicated through what the algorithm recommends. The algorithm doesn't even need to analyze whether or not this person is speaking in a lifestyle influencer accent. It's merely telling that, oh, this viewer scrolled away quickly because this person wasn't speaking in a socially approved accent in their minds, and that means I'm going to recommend this video to fewer users. And so there's sort of a selection that happens for socially desirable accents to replicate. And I also want to clarify,

• 31:24Speaker 05

  that's only one type of accent that's the most stereotyped because, you know, women are scrutinized with language. I speak in what I call an educational influencer accent. I'll talk very quickly. I'll stress more words to keep you watching my video.

• 31:35Manoush Zomorodi?

  I get the sense, though, that you were a fast talker always, no?

• 31:38Speaker 05

  I definitely am a fast talker and I'm definitely giving away myself here. But also, there is a perfection that I strive for in the videos where I'll retake certain clips if it seems like I don't have the right intonation on the right word, or if I stumble on my words, if I don't talk fast enough. And so what now is still like a kind of more natural way of speaking for me, and I, again, would probably speak differently if I was in a larger group conversation where you don't need to, it's like more laid back, you know, it's more demure.

• 32:11Manoush Zomorodi?

  You're so nonchalant, Adam. My gosh.

• 32:14Speaker 05

  I don't want to be shalant all the time. There's a time and a place to be shalant and there's a time to be nonchalant.

• 32:19Manoush Zomorodi?

  Wait, there's a, hold on. There's a difference between shalant and nonchalant?

• 32:23Speaker 05

  Well, nonchalant is being reserved and then.

• 32:25Manoush Zomorodi?

  But shalant is not its own word, what?

• 32:28Speaker 05

  But it is, it is now. It's a slang word that was popularized through like social media.

• 32:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  Meaning?

• 32:33Speaker 05

  And people talk, meaning the opposite of nonchalant, meaning you are overt about something.

• 32:38Manoush Zomorodi?

  Like jazz?

• 32:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, you're excited about something. I'm shalant about language, you know?

• 32:43Manoush Zomorodi?

  When I say jazz, are you like, whoa, 87 or what?

• 32:47Speaker 05

  I mean, I probably would just use the word shalant, exactly.

• 32:52Manoush Zomorodi?

  When we come back, Adam's concern and optimism for social media users, younger ones in particular. Plus, Adam and I go viral, maybe.

• 33:03Speaker 05

  Oh, you didn't know about the word?

• 33:04Manoush Zomorodi?

  All right, how do we begin? Oh, sorry. It's just terrible. Okay. Today on the show, the creator economy and its effects on language. I'm Manoush Zomorodi and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR. Stay with us.

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• 34:54Manoush Zomorodi?

  It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. We've been talking to Adam Alexic about the creator economy. Adam calls himself a social media linguist. He's also the author of Algo Speak: How Social Media Is Transforming the Future of Language. And he has built his career explaining the cultural and generational divide on how we use words.

• 35:20Speaker 05

  We didn't have the idea of a social generation in the 1800s. This is like a new thing. People are coming back from World War I. We called them the lost generation. Oh, the people coming back from World War II, that's the GI generation. Then we have baby boomers. And then we actually don't know what to call you, the next generation after that. We're like, well, I guess they don't have a desire to be defined, so we'll call them Gen X. And then we just keep running with the idea that generations exist. And then we have like millennial, yeah, because it's 2000. And then, well, we don't know what to call Gen Z either. So we'll just do whatever was two after Gen X. And now we just ran out of the alphabet, so we'll call it Gen Alpha. But I think influencers play into these labels because there is a human, social fascination with being labeled. We love things like MBTI's and Zodiacs and the idea of belonging to a bucket and with

• 36:05Speaker 05

  a generation.

• 36:06Manoush Zomorodi?

  And it's shorthand, right?

• 36:08Speaker 05

  It is. It is shorthand. Obviously, it's reductive, and I think people realize that. But we're using more generational language than we were before because it works. It works to talk about the Gen Z finger heart versus the millennial heart. Or before Gen X, people will start a short-form video. They'll do like a little breath in. It's so strange to me that we put ourselves in buckets like that and they actually serve as algorithmic trend bait to say that you are, "Oh, this is a Gen Z thing. This is a, the Gen Z stare went viral recently." I did a video on the boomer ellipses. There's always a random dot, dot, dot in the middle of their messages.

• 36:46Manoush Zomorodi?

  Oh, I do that.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  I phrased it that way because I knew it would go viral. Like, why do boomers put dots in their texts, which is not a normal thing that young people do? So it was simply more efficient to separate ID.

• 36:56Manoush Zomorodi?

  But it's like trailing off in your language.

• 36:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. It's just, there's different texting etiquette among different generations. And again, to use that word "generation" already feels like, I mean, all of language is putting things into categories, but I think some categories are more reductive than others.

• 37:12Speaker 06

  For example, the suffix "core" has recently gotten very popular in Gen Z slang to describe specific aesthetics, like cottage core, or goblin core, or angel core. And on the surface level, these are cute. You watch a cottage core video, you like it. Later on, you get more cottage core content. You might even start to identify with the cottage core aesthetic. But here's the thing, it's all fake. The entire reason these aesthetics exist is because TikTok algorithm has decided that words like cottage core qualify as trending metadata. So creators respond by making more cottage core content that propagates the word, and then more people interact with it, which makes the word trendier.

• 37:57Speaker 06

  And this happens because social media algorithms want to make you identify with hyper-compartmentalized labels, since they can then give you extremely specific commercialized content catering to that identity. Now that you're a cottage core person, you feel special every time you get a cottage core video. You're like, cottage core? Well, the algorithm really knows me. The algorithm gave you that identity. You might even start buying cottage core clothing or cottage core decorations to fit your new lifestyle as a cottage core person, and that's exactly what they want. The craziest part is, they're not even trying to hide this.

• 38:38Manoush Zomorodi?

  This is at the heart of the capitalist maker economy, no?

• 38:44Speaker 05

  This is such an important point to understand about how algorithms work. They want more categories. It's really good for them if I'm a demisexual Goblin Core Gen Z Swifty.

• 38:54Manoush Zomorodi?

  I don't even know what you just said, but yes, go on.

• 38:56Speaker 05

  The point is, those are all little identifiers, little pieces of metadata about myself as a user. The algorithm actually doesn't need the words, but humans sense that they are trying to perform for the algorithm. And they create these words and they actually circularly emergently make more of a cluster of users who identify with this label and that it makes more for the algorithm to reward. And it's all part of this surveillance capitalism system where now they have more things to label about us, more ways to target us more specifically. If you look at TikTok's business page in 2021, it says that subcultures are the new demographics. And it gives businesses ideas for how to profit off things like cottage core and the hashtag baddie aesthetic.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  And what's crazy to me about that page, they are using the word demographic. Because in the past, a demographic was like race, age, gender. And now it's also whether you're cottage core or not.

• 39:51Manoush Zomorodi?

  So as a Gen Xer, part of me is like, dude, you're totally selling out. But I'm guessing that that was an extremely time-specific way of testing you on why you are in the career you're in.

• 40:06Speaker 05

  I think I'm extremely aware of the dissonance, I guess, that is required to be a creator talking about these words and caring about how algorithms are affecting our culture. I think it is possible to use these algorithms subversively, otherwise I would not. It's also, I think, very important to mix forms of media. If we're going back to McLuhan and media theory, there's a scholar called Harold Innis, who came before McLuhan in Canada. I think he has a fascinating point about space bias versus time biased communication. And time biased sticks with the cultural record, like books and oral traditions. And so while it might take way longer to reach an audience that's the same size, space bias- Media fills up a lot of space really quickly, but doesn't stick around.

• 40:51Speaker 05

  Something like a newspaper or mass media or TV or right now, algorithms are incredibly space biased. They they fill our consciousness and then they go away. So it seems that both types of media have their pros and cons, right? Space biased media is very good for communicating to a big audience and time biased media is very good for maintaining some kind of cultural constancy or longevity. And so I think we should be mixing as much time biased and space biased media as possible, where we build a more holistic picture of society and reality by consuming and engaging with all these different types of media. So that's why I wrote a book.

• 41:28Manoush Zomorodi?

  Yeah, I did want to ask you that. Writing a book seems kind of retro in a way, but based on what you've just said, am I right to assume that you were happy to create it? Well, A, because you got paid and B, gets your ideas to more people, but C, it's more tangible that it'll stand the test of time, maybe unlike some of your TikTok videos?

• 41:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think anybody's looking at my TikTok videos from 2023. Somebody might look at this book two years from now, though. So there is a difference to how ideas can diffuse and ideas will diffuse differently depending on the medium. So a lot of this is just built up layers of human social constructs. The NPR social construct of how we're supposed to talk versus the book social construct of how I'm supposed to write, which is informal English, mind you. And then there's the TikTok construct of how I'm supposed to talk. And each of these has a different layer of respect or understanding of how I should be communicating.

• 42:23Manoush Zomorodi?

  So who are you really, Adam?

• 42:26Speaker 05

  I think a good communicator should know to adapt to different media and to different types of people and to different social settings. And we are constantly code switching all around us. You are a different person talking to your grandmother than talking to your best friend. And that is super normal. Your grandmother's house is a different medium than the bar that you're hanging out with your friend at. So this is an aspect of human nature to switch with the medium, but kind of maintain conceptual constancy, I guess, still have your own moral system and your own direction with what you're trying to do.

• 43:04Manoush Zomorodi?

  I asked Adam to make a video with me.

• 43:06Speaker 05

  Oh, you didn't know about the word?

• 43:06Manoush Zomorodi?

  Right, how do we begin? Oh, sorry. And use his formula to see if we could go viral.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  The lighting's kind of bad.

• 43:13Manoush Zomorodi?

  By playing to the algorithm.

• 43:15Speaker 05

  Okay, yeah.

• 43:15Manoush Zomorodi?

  Our first requirement: a trendy new word.

• 43:18Speaker 05

  Oh, you didn't know about the word "clanker"?

• 43:20Manoush Zomorodi?

  And you always need a good hook. Gen X versus Gen Z. No, I have no idea. I'm Gen X.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  It's kind of a speculative slur for robots. So the idea that they would become more sentient in the future and they could be treated as a human minority today.

• 43:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  The point of this video: to get people thinking about why we would even invent a slur for something that humans created. In this case, robots, which we are now calling "clankers" as a slur.

• 43:45Speaker 05

  Exactly. So the idea is a derogatory play on the idea of clanking as a robot, but also the N-word itself. It comes from Star Wars, where robots are seen as sort of a secondary race. And there's a lot of ideas about clankers being a lower class, but sort of anthropomorphized citizen in the future.

• 44:04Manoush Zomorodi?

  In some ways, that makes sense. Like, they're not humans, so shouldn't they be treated as clankers?

• 44:09Speaker 05

  You know, it's just the idea that in the future, they would become conscious, and we aren't recognizing that. It's sort of an online meme that's speculating about your daughter bringing home a clanker in the year 2060.

• 44:19Manoush Zomorodi?

  So like, 2060, my daughter's going to bring home a robot who is really, really nice to her, therefore, a nicer boyfriend than a real human, but he's kind of a clanker.

• 44:31Speaker 05

  Right. Well, the idea is you don't want your daughter dating a robot.

• 44:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  Amen to that.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  Well, in 2060, that might be racist.

• 44:37Manoush Zomorodi?

  Oh, God. Will the word "clanker" be around a year from now? Maybe not. Are these trendy words and memes among the world's most urgent issues? Definitely not. But as much as they are fun and interesting, there is a darker side to this world of algorithms and memes.

• 45:01Manoush Zomorodi?

  I do want to make sure that I ask you, there are people who are using language and the way the algorithm works to get across all kinds of ideas. And, you know, most recently, the very upsetting and awful occurrence of Charlie Kirk, a conservative influencer, was killed. But I guess I'm curious to hear, he built a big following online, in part through a very particular use of language, right? It was short, punchy, geared for viral-ness. From your perspective, how does that illustrate the way that social media platforms are shaping the way public figures communicate?

• 45:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's a sort of gotcha style that goes viral that you'll see Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk in the past use. That's like, keep it concise, keep it clip-farmed. So something that can go viral is a 30-second clip, some snarky soundbite. Doesn't matter who's more correct, just who can go more viral. And if you can go more viral than the other person, you can out-compete rebuttals or counterpoints. So it's more about just get your idea out there than have some measured response. And algorithms reward extreme things, right? When we're talking about engagement optimization, what these algorithms are doing to get our attention, things that are good at getting attention are unfortunately really extreme things. So far-left and far-right opinions and voices are going to be amplified. You know, AOC and Marjorie Taylor Greene are always going to go viral.

• 46:30Speaker 05

  Then my congressman, where I grew up in Albany, New York, Paul Tonko, no offense, he's kind of boring. He doesn't go viral, right? There's no kind of extreme point to his views, so it's not going to go as far on the algorithm. And so you have this ability of more extreme views to out-compete less extreme views, diffuse further, and then more people maybe start adopting that. It represents a new chance for people to donate money. Or I think Donald Trump is the first algorithmic president, in the same way that Kennedy was the first TV president. He was famously kind of elected over Nixon because he looked more photogenic. And I think Donald Trump is the more meme-able president. And if photogenic candidates were good on TV, meme-able presidents are good for algorithms.

• 47:12Manoush Zomorodi?

  I mean, one illustration, I think, of how, just back to Charlie Kirk, how this can play out in real life. I had a conversation with a friend, a mom, who said to me, I hate to admit it, I had not heard of Charlie Kirk. But I asked my 14-year-old son if he had, and he said, "Duh, Mom, of course I have. I'm a white 14-year-old kid on social media. I'm targeted exactly by them. Of course I've seen his videos." The fact that he understood what he was getting and why he was getting it. Do you think that the younger generation is more savvy? And are they questioning what the information that they're getting because they are thinking about the medium?

• 47:54Speaker 05

  Yes, I actually have so much optimism for the younger generation. I actually think older generations are maybe more concerningly illiterate of the new medium. The first people to get tricked by slop were boomers on Facebook, and there was like a shrimp Jesus that went viral. I think young people generally have a decent understanding of, "Oh, this could be AI, this might not be real." Or like, "This is the algorithm, and the algorithm is not necessarily showing me what I want." When people engage less with new media, they are less aware of how some things are fake or overrepresented. But yes, definitely, it is still a pipeline for younger people to get radicalized. A lot of this comes directly out of extreme ideology built on 4chan.

• 48:38Speaker 06

  Some of the linguistic communities created by the algorithm can be actively harmful. Many younger people have started using the suffix "pilled" to mean convinced into a lifestyle. If I recently discovered that I really like eating burritos, for example, I can say, "I'm so burrito-pilled." But that word was formed through analogy with "blackpilled", a term meaning convinced into incel ideology. Now, incels are a dangerous misogynistic group, and yet somehow, the vocabulary is filtering into Gen Z slang because the algorithm gave these hate groups a space. And again, many people don't even know where it came from.

• 49:21Speaker 06

  But for the few people who might be interested in the underlying idea, it's now more accessible to them because of the way that slang spreads on the internet.

• 49:33Manoush Zomorodi?

  What do you think that means? You just said you were an optimist for younger generation. But after hearing you say that, I worry a lot.

• 49:40Speaker 05

  I'm an optimist for younger generations having literacy about this stuff. I am not an optimist in terms of algorithms and how they impact our culture. I do want to draw that distinction between language and culture because I sort of comment on both a lot. And I think language is fine, and there's nothing wrong with individual words. They're never brain rot. I do think the same way as Chinese, language points us towards greater cultural shifts. You see a lot of words coming from that 4chan manosphere space, and we should be paying attention to why are these words coming out of that space? It's because that space is good at creating memes that export their ideology. And sometimes their ideology is very intertwined with far-right ideas and aesthetics.

• 50:19Speaker 05

  And yeah, that's kind of a problem of algorithms themselves, how they push extreme perspectives. What I said earlier about mixing media, I really hope that we come to realize as a culture that we should not just be relying on algorithms for our news. But also, you know, mainstream news has its own biases. It's good to get news from as many places as possible and build a greater picture of reality. It's good to build your stories of who people are through in-person connections as well because algorithms are going to show you a flattened representation of what society is. I do think we should be aware. We should be aware when the way we're talking may have been conditioned by the algorithm.

• 51:00Speaker 05

  We should be aware when the words we're using may have been engineered to sell us things. We should be aware when our language regurgitates extremist rhetoric, and we should be aware when that language can be used to harm other people. We should be aware of etymology in general because it helps us better understand who we are today. We should be aware. And with that, I have just one final piece of slang for you. It's a common phrase used by younger people when we finish a long-winded explanation of something. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

• 51:36Manoush Zomorodi?

  That was Adam Alexic. He's the author of Algo Speak: How Social Media Is Transforming the Future of Language. You can find him at @EtymologyNerd on social media, and you can see his talk at TED.com. Thank you so much for listening to our show today. If you enjoyed it, leave us a comment. What words are you using? We would love to know. You can do that on Spotify or email us at [email protected]. We love hearing from you. This episode was produced by Matthew Cloutier and edited by Sanaa Meshkhanpour and me. Our production staff at NPR also includes James Delahoussaye, Rachel Faulkner White, Katie Monteleone, Fiona Giran, Harsha Nehada, and Phoebe Lett.

• 52:20Manoush Zomorodi?

  Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Our audio engineers were Damian Herring and Gilly Moon. Our theme music was written by Ramtin Arablouei. Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Roxane Hylash, and Daniela Balarezo. I'm Manoush Zamirodi, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

• 52:43Speaker 04

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