Clara Amfo: “I’m afraid of being bored!” How to take your holiday hobbies seriously

Are holidays for switching off... or for fun activities? Broadcaster Clara Amfo is big into travelling solo so she can unapologetically indulge her own passions, like live music and salsa dancing. Welcome to The Happy Place Guide To Holidays! In this chat – brought to you by British Airways Holidays – Fearne and Clara share their thoughts on how to take your holiday hobbies and passions more seriously, including signing up for local classes, and swapping partying for fitness retreats. They also reminisce on the moment Fearne passed the Radio 1 Live Lounge over to Clara, and chat about how to know when you’re ready to move on from a chapter in your life. Plus, do you find your personality getting lost so you’re more palatable to others? Clara has some advice to stop that happening... British Airways Holidays are ATOL protected, offer a 24hr holiday helpline, and allow you to book with a low deposit. All holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. Go to Ba.com/holidays http://Ba.com/holidays to find out more. Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to the Happy Place Guide to Holidays, brought to you by British Airways Holidays. I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Clara Ampfo.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Do you know what, you can go on holiday and not necessarily come back with a physical skill. Sometimes it's just about self-sufficiency. Don't get me wrong, I love going on holidays with my mates, but you know how it is, trying to coordinate any kind of friend group, like we've all got that group chat, the sort of like, whatever holiday, 2025, let's do it. And there's like three people keeping it alive. I'm just like, you know what, screw this, go by myself. I've travelled a lot alone, so I think for me, when it comes to getting a skill coming back from holiday, it's actually just been about self-sufficiency and knowing how to do it really well, like alone.

• 1:10Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you will have gathered that this isn't an ordinary episode of the podcast. And actually, there are two reasons for that today. Firstly, Clara and I had this chat live with all of you gorgeous lot in our massive talks tent at the first ever Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park. And then secondly, this is the Happy Place Guide to Holidays. So it's an exclusive Happy Place mini-series brought to you by British Airways Holidays. They're all about helping you take your holidays more seriously. And this series is all about putting the passion back into our time away. In each episode, we're going big on the things that I and you lot, according to British Airways Holidays, love most about going on holiday. So that's things like food and drink and holiday reads and having time to prioritise our wellbeing.

• 1:54Fearne Cotton?

  Today, with Clara, we talk passions and hobbies. There's a real trend at the moment for people booking holidays so they can do more of what they love. That could be, I don't know, a week away sailing or painting or maybe a ski trip. Not for me. And this is really cool. According to a recent YouGov survey commissioned by British Airways Holidays, 68% of 25 to 34-year-olds think it's important that a holiday gives you the opportunity to incorporate a hobby or pursuit. So there are clearly loads of you following those niggling desires in your hearts, which I absolutely bloody love. There's also all your regular happy place chatting here. Why Clara was ready to leave Radio 1, losing ourselves while we tried to be likeable,

• 2:37Fearne Cotton?

  and why running was so vital to help her move through grief. P.S. We recorded this on the hottest, sweatiest day of the year.

• 3:09Fearne Cotton?

  Hi everyone.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Come and take a seat. Welcome Clara. Thank you for having me. This is fabulous.

• 3:14Fearne Cotton?

  I am obsessed with your outfit. Let's just start right there. You look absolutely dreamy.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Thank you kindly. I had to make an effort.

• 3:20Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like I haven't seen you in real life for ages.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  But here we are.

• 3:23Fearne Cotton?

  But here we are. I mean, you've already had a summer packed with festival action.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Indeed, indeed.

• 3:28Fearne Cotton?

  How was Glasto?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Glasto was fun. It was intense. It wasn't muddy, so I was delighted.

• 3:34Fearne Cotton?

  Love.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  And yeah, it was everything you wanted it to be. And it's the last one for a year, so we made sure we had a lot of fun. Worked very hard, of course.

• 3:41Fearne Cotton?

  Obviously.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Worked very, very hard.

• 3:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but you do, they're really long hours.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. I think that's the irony. People think when you work at Glastonbury, you just get to spend all day watching the acts and you don't. What you kind of do through like a tiny monitor, you can sneak away and see a couple of things. But yeah, we are on every day.

• 3:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Because you come off air at what, midnight?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Midnight, sometimes 1 a.m. Or if you're Paul McCartney, 1.30 in the morning because, you know, he's got the hits.

• 4:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to see Paul.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 4:06Fearne Cotton?

  And then did you go out afterwards? Because I did that one year. Terrible idea.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  So yeah, this year, on the Saturday night, I got to rap a little bit early. Then I went to go and see Dochi because I'm obsessed with her. And then I ended up in Block 9. And if you don't know what Block 9 is, for any Glastonbury goers here? Yeah? You know Block 9? It's a fabulous...

• 4:26Fearne Cotton?

  These are my people. They're like, "I was at home watching on the TV. It's too scary. It's too big."

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Do you know what? This so sums up the news relationship because I'll never forget one time I think you're top of it.

• 4:36Fearne Cotton?

  Have you met these people? No, they didn't go to Glastonbury, no.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  One time with me and Ferma doing Top of the Pops, she was like, "So what are you doing tonight?" And I was like, "I'm going out."

• 4:45Fearne Cotton?

  Going home, mate. Going home, absolutely, always.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  But I love that, balance.

• 4:48Fearne Cotton?

  Home is preferable, I love being at home. But I'm gonna really embrace this weekend, Pierce. I'm gonna stay, if that's okay.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  There we go, outside.

• 4:55Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I'm glad you had a lovely time, and you're off tonight to watch Stevie Wonder.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  I sure am, I'm taking my best steed to go and see him.

• 5:00Fearne Cotton?

  It's gonna be so good.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  It's July, perfect.

• 5:03Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best. I went and saw Craig David the other day, oh my god. I basically regressed to being 14 and just had the best night ever. My mate Fran got on my friend Lucy's back. We're 43, what was she doing?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Living life, babe.

• 5:17Fearne Cotton?

  I was like, "You're gonna piss yourself on her back, you need to watch out." It was so, it was a great gig, it was so, so good. So look, you know, you've got all of this going on, you've been so busy, relentlessly busy. We obviously, our paths crossed a lot back in the day, but then you took over from me on the Live Lounge, which was just, I was so happy to pass the baton on to such an amazing broadcaster and someone that I knew would be equally as passionate as I was, as Joe was before me, about that whole experience. Looking back on that decade at radio, what do you, what do you feel?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, do you know what? Because I left Radio 1 just over a year ago now, like, time has flown. And I think it's one of those things where, when you really have a bit of time to sit back and look at everything, you're like, "Oh my gosh", like, we're so spoiled, so lucky. Like, you know, you just get a front row to the most amazing artists' experiences and like, you know, seeing people live who are how we are now, with a meter in between you. And just getting to see artists' growth, it's such a rewarding thing to play like a teeny tiny part in someone's artistic journey. Like, I went to go see Dua Lipa at Wembley Stadium a couple of weeks ago, and, you know, I was one of her first radio plays, one of her first interviews, and like, I remember seeing her in a tiny venue,

• 6:36Speaker 02

  with like 200 people in like, in East London, and she's selling at Wembley Stadium. And it's, and she's always been so kind actually, because when I did my last Radio 1 show, she sent me a massive bouquet of flowers, and I was like, "You don't have to do that."

• 6:46Fearne Cotton?

  That's so kind.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  The leaper, John Lee, but it's just nice to be part of artist journeys and it's, and you know, as a fellow music nerd, it's just, it is incredible to see that up close.

• 6:58Fearne Cotton?

  Talking about those moments where, like you say, you're two metres away from like a global music superstar performing for you, which ones really stand out?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Oh, I've got to say, um, mm, mm, mm, mm. Oh, do you know what? Oh God, this is so annoying because you know what it's like.

• 7:16Fearne Cotton?

  There's too many. There's so many, I can't think of one.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  There's too many. Okay, okay. Off the top of my head, oh, Alicia Keys, that was fantastic. So yes, Alicia Keys fans, exactly. Yeah. So she did a special for us at Made of Vale, which is like, you know, the big iconic BBC studio. And it was her, her band, her piano. And she did like Try Sleeping With A Broken Heart. She did Falling. And like, you know, we've all sung Falling in the shower. Obviously, none of us can hit the notes. And if you can sing, love that for you. But like, you know, hearing her do that, keep, and you're just like, oh my God.

• 7:47Fearne Cotton?

  She is phenomenal.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Amazing. Like Do As Early Live Lounges, like Little Simz, Yana Havas, like the list goes on. Like we've just, yeah, it's, it's an incredible experience, man.

• 7:57Fearne Cotton?

  I remember at Made of Vale once. Made of Vale is such a weird studio, by the way. It's been there forever and it hasn't, like, no one's redecorated it. It's just the same. It sort of smells of an old museum. It's so bizarre. And we had Eminem in and he was literally stood there and it was just him. It was the most awkward thing, him and me. And he was rapping, like doing Stan. And I was just like, what did you do with your hands? I was, like, what do you do?

• 8:20Speaker 02

  You're going to be his hype person and like.

• 8:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can you imagine? No, I would have been evacuated from the building immediately. But it is, it's sort of brilliantly awkward and intense. But it feels so special to have, you look back and you think, how was I allowed to do that? That's bizarre. I was allowed in the room during that.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  It is, it's truly amazing. And particularly pre-COVID, because I think COVID definitely changed the game. I think we all know whether you were working from home, broadcasting from home, because some of us were doing radio shows literally from our, from our houses, whatever. I think it really changed the dynamic of like artist availability and things like that. So to, to get that closeness and that FaceTime, like I. I really don't take that for granted.

• 8:59Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  We were very lucky.

• 9:00Fearne Cotton?

  So, so lucky. How was it making that decision to leave? Because I think we're really similar in the fact that we like chapters. We like to go, right, I did that and I know that I've, whether it's kind of stopped learning as much or I'm not as kept on my toes. I need a new challenge. I think we're both similar in that way, that we want newness or to feel like we're really, really excited slash really, really nervous. But it's a big decision to leave a job like that where you get these exceptional experiences. And it's taken for granted that weekly you're going to be in that situation, mixing with all these amazing artists. I don't know about you, but when I told even people around me that I was leaving, everyone was like, why?

• 9:41Fearne Cotton?

  Not a single person went, good for you, which is unnerving because you want people to kind of back your decision up. How, how was that for you?

• 9:48Speaker 02

  That's a great question because I think I had mixed reactions. Because I mean, obviously our bosses who are lovely were like, but why? And I was like, do you know what it is? Like, I just, I'm one of these people that I am so passionate about what I do, but I never want to resent anything that, that I do, whether that is broadcast, whether that is, I don't know, the people who I spend my personal time with, whatever. I, I know, I don't ever want anything to feel like, like it's being forced or like it's a chore. And I wasn't feeling that way, but you know, I want to be able to listen to music as a fan always, rather than as a business. Do you know what I mean? I want to be able to talk to people on a human level, rather than thinking, got to get that viral interview clip.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? And I think, you know, I'm, I'm quite good at sort of, I don't know, just sort of feeling trends in, in media and broadcast. And I could just feel myself being like, the way I want to do things and what I've managed to achieve, I'm so happy with my lot here. And don't get me wrong, I'm still obviously like do Glastonbury and I'm still doing my bits and bobs, like in music around the beep. But I just felt like, I don't know, I've been, I don't want to say I've been so spoiled because I've worked hard for what I've achieved.

• 11:00Fearne Cotton?

  Of course you have, yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  I just, put it this way, when Annie Mack, our lovely friend Annie Mack, left Future Sounds and passed that show on to me, she was just like, "Yeah babe, like, I'm just ready to do my next thing." And I think that's how I felt. I just felt, I felt so completely satiated by it. And I was like, "Well, I think there's nothing new for me to do." I could carry on and do it, I could. But I think one thing I learned is just because you can do something, doesn't mean you always should. And I, you know, I probably could have, I mean, look, who's to say, the industry is, is, is, is what it is. Like, you can never predict things. But generally speaking, I probably could have stayed a bit longer if I, if I'd wanted to.

• 11:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  But to quote the brilliant Sarah Jessica Parker of Sex and City slash And Just Like That fame, "Always leaving the party's cresting."

• 11:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Always leaving the party's cresting.

• 11:49Fearne Cotton?

  You don't want to be there when the lights go up.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 11:52Fearne Cotton?

  Christ no.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  And the thing is, I am a person who does dance when the lights go up, as we've established, but...

• 11:55Fearne Cotton?

  I don't. As soon as I get to a party, I'm thinking, "How, what's the exit plan? How am I getting out?"

• 12:02Speaker 02

  That's true. Twenty minutes cotton, or forty minutes if you're lucky.

• 12:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, twenty minutes, absolutely, peak. No, I agree. I think it's so good to leave on a high.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 12:11Fearne Cotton?

  Really, really good. And also good to constantly feel nervous. And I think, once you've had that little thought in your head, it just gets louder and louder. When you know you need change in life, you can't really ignore it. I mean, you, you can try, but I think it gets harder and harder, because that voice just gets louder. And at some point, you've got to act on it and do the thing.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Well, this is it. And I think anytime you, I, I've got a big thing, like, I don't, I always say I don't like to betray myself. I don't think people should betray themselves. The minute you allow a little bit of self betrayal to happen in any facet of your life, I think it just snowballs.

• 12:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  And I wouldn't want to be, you know, turning up on the radio every day, just sort like, "Hi guys." Like, because nobody wants that. No one's tuning into that. They want a vibe.

• 12:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, it's, it is a tough gig. And sometimes I feel awkward saying that, because it is a dream job, but the pressure is immense. You are live three hours every day. You've got to have new things to say. Also, if you wake up feeling a bit crap, you can't express that. You just need to switch on, you know, the happiness and go- Go for it and it is, it's full on, it's a full on cycle.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of eyes on you, literally and a lot of ears on you and like, you know, you might say something wrong by accent, like you might pronounce a band name wrong or you might get the day of the week wrong and someone be like, oh my god, bad, it's like.

• 13:25Fearne Cotton?

  People love that.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  And it's just like, guys.

• 13:27Fearne Cotton?

  I'm gonna make a complaint, it's actually Wednesday, thanks very much.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  No, you think we're joking.

• 13:31Fearne Cotton?

  So get a life.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  But yeah, no, seriously, it's, it can really be like that.

• 13:34Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it drives me mad.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know.

• 13:36Fearne Cotton?

  People are waiting for you to mess up.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, I find that, I just find that very, very odd, but obviously, generally speaking, it was a beautiful experience and I think the listeners that I, and you know this, the people that you form relationships with, like, you know, who turn you on when they're in the car or at home studying, whatever, like, they, I think you have to trust that they will come with you where you go. I mean, hence why this room is packed out tonight, because I'm sure all of you love fun on radio, love fun on TV and like, exactly, yes! And that's why, no, but that's why we're here, do you know what I mean? Because you build an intimate, it's such an intimate relationship that you build with audience and it's, it's a vulnerable thing as well. When you're broadcasters, that thing of like, hi, here to tell you things about things that I like and hopefully you like them too and hopefully you like that I like them and hopefully you like me liking them and like, let's all like things together.

• 14:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, the likability thing I find terrifying because certainly in the job that we've been in and still are in a different iteration, being liked is so imperative and it's such a weird flimsy concept to be likable because obviously not everyone's gonna like me like you, you know, that's just how the world works. Some people go, oh, I love how you talk, I love your intonation or I like your music taste, whatever it is, and for some people, it's just not their thing. But it feels, it's so weighted because without being liked, you haven't got a job. And for me, that has been at times excruciating to sort of land on that, oh my god, I don't know how to do that anymore, like, what, and you

• 15:06Fearne Cotton?

  forget to just be yourself because you're so worried about what other people's expectations are or what might be as vanilla as can be so that more people like you. It's quite a fine line and I think losing yourself to that is very easy.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  And that goes back to the self portrayal thing, you know, because I think we could all do things in our gen- regardless of what you do for a living, you can do all types of things to make yourself more palatable to people and more, you know, like, yes, likeable in that way, but then at what cost?

• 15:37Fearne Cotton?

  A huge cost, I think, a huge cost. I think, actually, it sent me completely mad at points where I was just like, I don't even know what I like anymore, or how to say this thing that I want to say. I think if it gets in your head too much, it really plays in your mind. I mean, I was thinking back when I was looking into this chat today about, I remember my last show and you came into the studio and it was such a lovely moment to have like a proper handover, but I was also aware that you had a lot going on at that time of your life. You had just lost your dad, you know, that was a very recent thing. And then you were having this huge life change of taking on this show, you were going to be there every single day. I mean, looking back on that moment in your life, were you completely overwhelmed? How were you dealing with it all?

• 16:20Speaker 02

  You know, a great question again, because I think retrospect is 2020, isn't it? And I think, you know, when you're so caught up in something and you're just focused on like, because I think we, again, we all do that in life, like, sometimes, not to be that guy, but sometimes we forget to be present, but it's true, because you're so focused on like, okay, what's next, this, da, da, da, da, da. And I think, yeah, so you, because I remember your last show was May 22, 2015, you were pregnant with Honey at the time, weren't you?

• 16:46Fearne Cotton?

  I was very pregnant, yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  And my dad had literally died like two months prior and, and it was, there was a lot going on. And I think I was actually genuinely grateful for the commotion and the madness, because it kind of kept me focused in my sort of grieving process. And I, and even though I was, obviously, I was, I was heartbroken and terribly sad, it kind of helped, it was a weird healing, well, temporary fix for what I was going through. But, I mean, looking back now, would, would I have gone straight into a job on the, on the nation's broadcast, the national broadcast? I don't know. Actually, no, I probably still would have actually, because knowing what my dad was like, and he was very, you know,

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Work and achievement focus. I think he wouldn't have wanted me to not do it anyway. But yeah, that time was, it was overwhelming, man. And I don't know how I did it, but we just get on with it, don't we?

• 17:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well, you're just, you're in it. So you're not even, you're not thinking ahead of the day that you're coping with. Did that somewhat delay your grief? Did it come later?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Oh, do you know what?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Do you know what? No, actually, because I think I, it was all so raw. And I think I was still sort of so green. I was just honest with everybody around me, to be fair. So like, you know, there were times where I'd be doing a link and be like, okay, you know, that was the new one from Ed Sheeran. And then be like, hi guys. And under my desk, I'd be like, oh, I'm so sad. And like sobbing and then switching it back on again. But then I think simultaneously, I, actually, no, tell a lie, because the year after my dad had died, I had made a radio documentary called Running With Grief. So I love, I love to run. Like, I'm doing the marathon next year.

• 18:30Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, are you?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Don't know why, but I'm doing it. No, I'm doing it. I'm doing it for charity. So I do know why. But I just, I, it's one of those ones. I'm just like, I've just got to do it.

• 18:39Fearne Cotton?

  You've got to do it.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  Exactly. But, because I, so to give you context, I'd found out that my father had died when I was running the Paris Half Marathon. So I'd gone to get my bibs with my mates. That was March 2015. Obviously, it took over from you, May 2015. And we were in Paris. We were going to go and get our running bibs and then had all these missed calls from my sister. And honestly, do you know what? You know, we just know. I was like, I bet, I bet my dad's, I just, I knew it. I'm not even joking. And so I never got to run the Paris Half Marathon. So I ran it the next year, but I made a documentary called Running With Grief at the same time as, same time of it. And knowing that I was gonna do that, I mean, that wasn't decided the minute that he died, obviously. But I think there were so many little things implemented for me along the way, as well as being brought into this whole new world of Radio 1,

• 19:23Speaker 02

  that I, that, yeah, I think working was actually just quite healing for you. It was just a great distraction. And I have to give credit to some of the people that we, that we worked with and still work with, used to work with. I had great support, actually. People were very, very kind. And actually, our boss at the time said, you know, you don't have to start. He said to me, he goes, you know, you don't have to start like now. You can wait till like maybe after. So I was like, no, no, I want to, I want to do it now.

• 19:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I think there's no right or wrong way to do grief. You know, if you want to. Keep busy and distract yourself. Do it. I think you've got to do the thing that you know is going to help you get through it.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 19:58Fearne Cotton?

  Because it's undulating and it, you know, it rears its head when you're least expecting it. So you've just got to do whatever you can to cope.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Basically, yeah.

• 20:07Fearne Cotton?

  So you're doing a marathon next year, Clara. Oh my god.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Sure am.

• 20:09Fearne Cotton?

  So you're going to start, have you started training now?

• 20:11Speaker 02

  No, in this heat, are you joking?

• 20:12Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Absolutely not.

• 20:13Fearne Cotton?

  That's a ridiculous question.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely not.

• 20:14Fearne Cotton?

  Madness.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  No, I'm going to start, I think, I think this, November, December.

• 20:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  When it's chilly.

• 20:20Fearne Cotton?

  When it's really cold.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 20:22Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's going to be fun, isn't it?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Yes, bring on.

• 20:24Fearne Cotton?

  Can't wait. Are you good at celebrating your wins, would you say?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Do you know what? I am, actually.

• 20:28Fearne Cotton?

  That's good.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  I didn't, I didn't used to be as much, but I am because I think, I, I'm just very aware of how fleeting everything is. And this is not to be a downer, it's just, it's just real life. Not to talk about death again, but like, you know, I'm, I lost a mate like coming up to two years ago now, and she was only 35 when she died. She had, she had blood cancer and she was the most vivacious, brilliant, just, she was like, her name was Poppy, she's brilliant, Poppy Chancer, she's an amazing artist, look up her work, Poppy's Paper Cuts, she was amazing. And she was an incredible artist and just life personified. And I think, you know, her passing and just, just seeing how life can kick all of us in the arse, I

• 21:11Speaker 02

  think I've just become acutely aware, particularly these past two years of like, listen, man, when things, when things are great, bloody enjoy yourself. Because when it's, can I say that, can I say naughty word or maybe not?

• 21:23Fearne Cotton?

  There's some kids here, it's up to you guys.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Okay, well, do you know what?

• 21:26Fearne Cotton?

  What are the parents feeling about this?

• 21:27Speaker 02

  No, the ears of babes, the ears of babes. No, no, no.

• 21:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  When things aren't, when things aren't great children.

• 21:31Fearne Cotton?

  Literally like a six-year-old sat on a beanbag.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 21:32Fearne Cotton?

  We were about to drop the F-bomb.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  There we go. When, when things aren't going so well, guys, um, you know, it's, it, like, life.

• 21:39Fearne Cotton?

  They're like, say the word.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:40Fearne Cotton?

  Say it.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  No, listen, no, no, no, we've got to be, got to be well behaved. Um, if you repeat that, I don't want to get the blame from your mum and dad.

• 21:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly, it's gold.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Exactly, Clara said, I can say, no, but I think, because, you know, I've dealt with like, deep, deep, deep depression in my life. I don't, again, I don't know a single person that hasn't. I've, I've experienced like some horrendous, particularly- The start of twenty twenty three, mate, I was in the flipping trenches.

• 22:05Fearne Cotton?

  Why do you think that was?

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Oh gosh, I think I was burnt out, um I wasn't taking care of myself properly. I think I was a bit sort of overwhelmed by, I think, life's weird in, well not weird, valid injustices. I just, I just wasn't feeling like great and I was in a bit of a negative headspace and it, yeah, I was, I was really, really depressed like sort of mid twenty twenty three. And I took some time off of radio like and, and, and just had to have a little reset. And that's when I should, I decided I was gonna, I was gonna um leave my, my show actually at the time. So I think I've been in a place where I've dealt with, you know, some horrendous things in my life that have maybe manifested, you know, in my day to day.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  So when things are going well, I'm like, you know what, hold on to it and flipping celebrate it because you just, you just don't know what's happening next.

• 22:56Fearne Cotton?

  You don't. And I think that's such a good attitude to adopt. And it's, it's a choice that you make because I, I totally get that. And I desperately tried to cultivate that sort of mindset of like, even being here this weekend, you know, it's completely overwhelming for me. You know, I'm just a random human and I'm like, what, I, what am I doing here? I shouldn't be doing, like, this is all too much at times and I have to really allow myself to go, look, it's happening, people have turned up and the sun's shining and it's lovely. I find it really hard and I think, you know, in a similar way to you, having had very, very low mental health at periods. Sometimes I will naturally have a propensity to think in the opposite direction, which is more, don't enjoy it too much because the rug's gonna be pulled under your feet again.

• 23:41Fearne Cotton?

  And it's, it's so tricky to make that choice. So I think it's actually a disciplined approach to mental health is to go, I choose to lean in to this good moment. Rather than, it's so much easier to go. Don't enjoy it too much, it could all go, you know, and I, I really struggle with that one still.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  And it's, and it's that thing, it is, it is that phrase, you know, I mean, again, it's so nuanced, but generally speaking, I've come to the belief that happiness is a choice. And that's not to say force it, because if you're having a rubbish day, you're having a rubbish day and, and life is life. I'm not about, you know, deluding yourself to think like, everything's perfect in the world or whatever, but whether it is the smallest thing like, oh, you know what, I caught my train this morning for my commute, or, oh, I had a really funny text exchange with my mate, or I got a bit of time to watch my favourite TV show, or this happens, whatever. You, you just, sometimes I have to, I say it aloud to myself, I'll be at home and then be like, oh my gosh, like, you did this today, like, great. Like, wicked, like, and it's, it's so, it feels so minor, but I do think it, it helps.

• 24:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I do.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Because yeah, when life is, yeah, when life is rubbish and you can't see a way out, you, you, you wanna think about those moments.

• 24:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you've got to draw on those times. Like we were saying before we walked onto the stage, to, not to be obsessed by him today, but Craig David is a professional gratitude giver. He is constantly, like, you know, you might have seen him on TV.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Sorry, I'm listening to you, it's my legs are so freaking sweaty.

• 25:06Fearne Cotton?

  Mine are literally sweaty.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  There we go, there we go.

• 25:07Fearne Cotton?

  Bliding off each other like a wet seal right now.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Proper, proper, proper.

• 25:11Fearne Cotton?

  I, I can't even move them, I'm embarrassed to move them.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  I should have talced.

• 25:15Fearne Cotton?

  When I get up, it's just gonna be wet.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  You know, right, there we go, sorry, I'm back engaged now.

• 25:19Fearne Cotton?

  We are all disgusting, right. If you, if you come for a hug later, it's just, I wouldn't actually. Well, should we do like an elbow?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Indeed, like OG Covid times.

• 25:29Fearne Cotton?

  No, look, we're on the same boat, we are absolutely rank. Someone's bought a fan, so clever and so chic, actually, like an old fan.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Come on, Taipei personality.

• 25:37Fearne Cotton?

  It's giving chic, big time. Yeah, Craig is so good at gratitude and you might sort of watch him on TV and think, oh, I don't know if I believe that. It is absolutely real. He's so grateful, and I think also because he had a big dip and time out, he's so grateful that people turn up to his shows, that he gets to sing on stage. And it is, you're so right, it's those little moments of like catching the train or eating an ice meal and, or little moments of connection with another person.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 26:03Fearne Cotton?

  It's all so, so important. I wanna talk about stuff outside of work as well, because I think the balance of... You know, this industry which is so relentless and even when you're not working, you're constantly thinking about, I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm constantly like, do I still have a job tomorrow? Like, it's a constant panic that it might all go. I definitely need things outside of that just to really ground me and keep me sane. I love painting. I don't do it anywhere near enough, but I love painting outside of music, which obviously has a slight work crossover. But painting feels like it's mine. Like, it's nothing to do with work, it's just for me. What do you have outside of work that keeps you feeling good?

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Oh, so lately I've become, I've become one of those Pilates girls.

• 26:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yes!

• 26:47Speaker 02

  I'm obsessed.

• 26:49Fearne Cotton?

  We've got Pilates here this weekend somewhere.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Obsessed, obsessed, obsessed. I can't stop doing it. Because I only started doing it about two months ago. Can't stop. And also dancing. I don't know if you guys know, I did a little show called Strictly Come Dancing years ago.

• 27:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yes!

• 27:02Speaker 02

  I was robbed! No, joking.

• 27:03Fearne Cotton?

  You were, you were a ray of sunshine on that show. Oh, my gosh.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  But I loved that show because I felt like a little kid because I just, I love to dance. I love, love, love to dance. So that's, that's my passion. Outside of work, like, if I can go to a dance class, that's me all day.

• 27:18Fearne Cotton?

  Have you kept up ballroom? Are you doing that specifically?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Do you know what? Not ballroom, but I've been doing a bit of jazz, a bit of contemporary.

• 27:23Fearne Cotton?

  Jazz, yes!

• 27:24Speaker 02

  A bit of basic ballet. Check out, check out The Point.

• 27:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yes!

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Check out the turnout, darling. But no, that's, I truly, I love to dance. It makes me feel, that is my happy face. Like, I love it.

• 27:35Fearne Cotton?

  It's so good. And without sounding like, I don't know, a bit flimsy and woo-woo about it, I think there's something in dancing that gets stuck stuff out of you that you can't talk about in therapy or whatever. It's like a way of getting it out of you.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Well, it's a primal thing, isn't it?

• 27:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Like, we've done it since the dawn of time. It's another form of communication, you know. And again, it's such an intimate thing to do with somebody or such a freeing thing to, like, do by yourself. And it just makes you feel good. And also, hitting an eight count.

• 28:02Fearne Cotton?

  Oh!

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Just feels good. When you get it. Love it!

• 28:05Fearne Cotton?

  Absolute dream. We'll have you here next year doing a dance class.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Do you know what? Maybe you will.

• 28:10Fearne Cotton?

  Florence dance class.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Maybe you will.

• 28:11Fearne Cotton?

  You do therapy, right?

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I love therapy.

• 28:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, me too.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  I wouldn't be here without it.

• 28:15Fearne Cotton?

  No, same. Absolutely no way.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  I lost my therapist just yesterday.

• 28:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Won't say a government name because that- That's a little bit crossing the line, but she's great. Shout out to H.

• 28:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 28:24Fearne Cotton?

  And is it weekly, you're regular?

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see it, I see it. Every Friday.

• 28:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  I go in, we go and have a good old chat and she's, she has, honestly, she's changed my life. But I've been in therapy forever.

• 28:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no, same. And I think it is if you can do it, you know, it's, it's sometimes tricky to get if you, you know, it's expensive or if you can't get it on the NHS. But if you feel like you need it, it is game changing.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 28:45Fearne Cotton?

  Game changing. How would you say it has changed your life?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Oh my god. I think therapy has changed my life in the sense of it makes me question everything, but in a way that isn't me being unsure of myself. It's just about assessing things. Okay. It's essentially asking what's really going on here. So just say if someone's pissed me off or I'm upset about something, okay, but why is that really? Are you upset with what this person's done? What's it really triggering inside of you? And what, and what do we, what do we need to fix about that? Because actually, this time last year, I had a massive row with, with my lovely friend, who you know, my lovely friend Kove. I had to cuss him out because we're friends here, we're sharing. And he won't mind me telling this story because we were going to, we were going to a gig, we were going to a festival.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  And I was, okay, meet me outside the train station at this time, do not be late. Supposed to meet him at like two o'clock. This man turns up at three thirty.

• 29:43Fearne Cotton?

  Sorry.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I'm just around the corner, I'm coming for fifty. You know, everyone's got that friend who's sort of like, yeah, I'm coming, I'll be there in like ten, fifteen minutes. And it's sort of like, it's, you just listen, yeah, exactly.

• 29:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  It's you!

• 29:54Fearne Cotton?

  You, naughty.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  And I was waiting for it for over an hour and a half and I was absolutely fuming by the time. And we've, we've, we've been friends for years, never had a row. It was our first argument ever. I had to cuss him out because I was just like, you cannot, you cannot leave me outside. And I don't, obviously, I'm a people person, whatever. You cannot leave me waiting somewhere for an hour and a half. And I started crying and I got really upset and I was like, okay. Also, let me interrogate what's going on here. And because of therapy, I was able to express that to him. I said, Koby, I've got a real big thing about people wasting my time. I really value authentic, real friendships. If I'm sorting us out tickets or something, whatever, you being late and disrespecting my time tells me that you don't care about me and makes you wonder if our friendship is real and then it makes me think is anything real and I spiral and da, da, da, da, because that's one of my core wounds.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Because working in the industry.

• 30:44Fearne Cotton?

  Core wounds.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  But you know what I mean?

• 30:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I do.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Abandonment and like, you know, people, people, kids, I'm gonna say piss. They're gonna piss out of your time and like.

• 30:52Fearne Cotton?

  They're gonna.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Okay, fine. And not, and not valuing you. Like, that, that, that stuff triggers me because I, I, listen, you know, in our industry, our industry can be fake as hell. I think, but again, I don't think, I don't think it's even an industry thing. Like, I am so particular about who I spend my time with. Like, I wouldn't do this if I didn't love you. Do you know what I mean? It's a Saturday morning, I could happily be in bed, but I'm here because, because I genuinely like and love you. No, but it's, but that's just the fact.

• 31:17Fearne Cotton?

  I hate, I'm just saying, yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  And so when it comes to my friendships, I, I don't, I don't play. So if you're keeping me waiting outside somewhere for an hour and a half, that's gonna piss me off.

• 31:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  And I got really upset, but then we, I therapized it out and I said, you have to understand, I've been really going through it lately with sort of like friends and.

• 31:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Wondering who's real and what's going on and like, that's why I'm really upset. And then we worked out and then it was fine. But if I wasn't in therapy, I don't think I would have been able to have that mature kind of confrontation with him and resolve it in the day.

• 31:47Fearne Cotton?

  Without a doubt.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:48Fearne Cotton?

  And Koby will never be late again.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, actually, I mean.

• 31:52Fearne Cotton?

  Very public rant, which I am really here for.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:54Fearne Cotton?

  I know him, I know him. He's been late for me before. I know this guy.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  He's a fab, he's a ten ten human, but yeah, had to cuss him.

• 32:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Um, so let's, when we're talking about passions, dance amazing. Have you ever been tempted to go on holiday driven by a passion?

• 32:07Speaker 02

  I did, yeah. Well, I went to Cuba just before the pandemic because again, I just, I love, I just love that part of the world and I just, I've always been obsessive, like, just like, you know, the, like, South America and all of that. And I, I think, I took a, I took a salsa class in Cuba and it was so fun. I did loads of classes when I was out there. So I did like a cigar rolling class, I did a, yeah, did a salsa class, like cooking, all of that. And it was just, it was so fab. I really, I went by myself.

• 32:33Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God, I love this.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  I travel alone a lot.

• 32:35Fearne Cotton?

  Um, according to British Airways Holidays YouGov survey, 70% of travellers say they like to come back from holiday having learned something new. Are you in that bracket?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I thi- I think so, because I think, do you know what, you can go on holiday and not necessarily come back with a physical skill. Sometimes it's just about self-sufficiency. Do you know what I mean? Because, yeah, I, I don't know, I love going on holidays with my mates, but you, you know how it is, trying to coordinate any kind of friend group. Like, we've all got that group chat, the sort of like, whatever holiday, 2025, let's do it. And there's maybe like three people keeping it alive. And like seven people have just got it on archive. You're like, can we get a plan? They're like, come on. And I'm just like, you know what, screw this, I'm going by myself. Or I'll go with one person. I think I've, and just because people's schedules are different, I've, I've travelled a lot alone. So I think for me, when it comes to getting a skill coming back from holidays, it's actually just been about self-sufficiency and knowing how to do it really well, like alone.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  And just little things like, just how I pack, because like, I'm famously a hand luggage only babe, unless I have, unless I really have to.

• 33:36Fearne Cotton?

  This is like Richard E. Grant, when we did an episode of this with him, I'm like, how? I have to take a pillow with me. It takes up half a suitcase. I'm not even jo- I wish I was joking, my life would be so much easier.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Do you know what it is? I think I've got, I've got a massive fear of like, again, I, I'm quite an impatient person. I hate waiting, I hate waiting around. And not that, you know, like queues are ridiculously long, I'm just a Gemini and I'm just like, let's go, let's go.

• 33:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Let's go. And I just like the idea of travelling. And also if you're going somewhere hot, you don't need that much stuff.

• 34:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I still need my pillow.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  I guess, and your pillow.

• 34:09Fearne Cotton?

  I do.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, I've, I've gotten down hand luggage only like to and art. So that's, that's been my, my biggest skill.

• 34:15Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:17Fearne Cotton?

  I've done some really successful passion-led holidays, like I love art, so I've done Guggenheim, I've done, you know, Paris, been to the Louvre and the Musée d'Orsay. And I, like, I love a little Barcelona, like, I love doing an art trip. But also, I once tried skiing. I don't like skiing, I've decided.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Not for you?

• 34:36Fearne Cotton?

  No, I didn't grow up skiing, because no one skied where I grew up.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, very much same, yeah.

• 34:41Fearne Cotton?

  Like, not a thing.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:42Fearne Cotton?

  So I went aged 30, it's a really bad idea. It's really hard, skiing's really hard.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  It is tricky, I'm not really a ski-hunt TBH, I'm more about apres ski.

• 34:51Fearne Cotton?

  Apres ski, hippo.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 34:53Fearne Cotton?

  Love that. Me too.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Do you know what, I tried snowboarding once, I did, I did quite enjoy it, but I think, yeah, it's one of those ones, I think you've got to really be in the mindset and be really like, really ready and like dedicated to like, to doing it.

• 35:06Fearne Cotton?

  It's fast though, like skiing, you have to put all the stuff on, you have to go in a chairlift, it's like, what the hell?

• 35:11Speaker 02

  To go up, to go down, although to be fair, I did go to a trip, I went to Canada a few years ago and I did, I did snowblading and that was really fun.

• 35:19Fearne Cotton?

  What is that?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  It's basically rollerblading, but like, so it's like mini.

• 35:21Fearne Cotton?

  Rollerblading?

• 35:22Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like mini, um, uh, skis, so it's like snowblading, so it's just sort of like, you know, like a ski is like that, a snowblader is like that.

• 35:29Fearne Cotton?

  That sounds even harder than skiing though.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  No, it was, do you know what, it was technically, I think, I think easier, but I, I had a good time, it was cold, don't like to be cold that much, fine.

• 35:36Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, is there any sort of passion-led holiday you would love to go on, a new skill you'd like to learn whilst you're away?

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Do you know what, I would love to go on a Mai Tai holiday, I would really love to, because a friend of mine did that, um, so she went to, because I've been to Thailand for like parties and enjoyment, but I've never been to Thailand for like fitness, and she goes every year, she goes to like a Mai Tai retreat, and so she just learns to like, do all that and like, wear the cool shorts, obviously not just for the aesthetics, I actually would like to learn the skill, but like, but the, the shorts are fab, but, um, but yeah, she did that and she does that and it looks really cool, I would love to do that.

• 36:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that sounds so good.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  I think that's really cool.

• 36:10Fearne Cotton?

  Are you good at relaxing when you go away, or do you find, is it like a couple of days to switch off, how long does it take you?

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Um, see, the thing is, I, I love an activity on holiday, but I also, I love the option to do nothing, but I also hate, I have got such a fear of being bored, and I, I need to always stay somewhere where I can visit like a local gallery or a local tourist spot, but I also love the fact, if I want to wake up at like midday and just lie out for like six hours, I'm gonna do that, but I also want to know there's an option of, yeah, going to check out, yeah, a, a live music venue or a museum or, or whatever, so I, it's a bit of both, but I'm, I'm quite good at like, being like, don't, don't email me, don't text me, nothing.

• 36:51Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  I literally have my out of office on my WhatsApp, like unless it's, unless it's idle gossip or Beyonce emergency, like don't contact me.

• 36:57Fearne Cotton?

  Beyonce emergency!

• 36:59Speaker 02

  No, seriously, no, unless, unless she decides to start doing interviews and just like, if she, if that woman calls me.

• 37:03Fearne Cotton?

  I'm on a flight.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, fine, but. Leave me alone.

• 37:05Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  I literally have that on my.

• 37:07Fearne Cotton?

  I put my phone in a drawer and then I just, I buy a camera and then I go and take pictures like old school with a camera. And then I don't even, because if I answer one email, I'll look on Instagram and then I'm scrolling and then I've lost 20 minutes. Or I could be actually thinking of nothing.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  And living life.

• 37:22Fearne Cotton?

  And actually living a life, very important. That really helps me to switch off big time. British Airways holidays want us to take our holidays more seriously. That's what they're really trying to help us out with. That for me is the way that I'll do it is the phone's in the drawer. How do you like to take your holidays seriously?

• 37:38Speaker 02

  Hmm, I think, yeah, definitely switching off from socials, though I won't lie. I do like a little story. I like, you know, I'm that cliche, there's a nice sunset.

• 37:47Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  I'll capture it.

• 37:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Having a nice meal, I'll capture it. But I think, yeah, definitely just get off your flipping phone, man. Go, go analog if you can. Obviously like emergencies, whatever, but yeah, I like, I love, I've got a little, obviously other brands are available. Let me just say, I've got an instant camera.

• 38:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  I love, I love taking my little camera with me too. And I think it's just about doing, doing what the locals would do. Like I, I'm very much into finding somewhere local, like even talking to the taxi driver and being like, you know, you'd leave the airport. Okay, what do people actually like to do for fun here? And just chucking yourself into it. Because I don't like to go on holiday to hang out with respectfully, other British people.

• 38:25Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  I want to be with the people.

• 38:26Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Obviously like you're going to meet like, you know, fellow travellers along the way, but I want to see what people on the ground.

• 38:31Fearne Cotton?

  But let's avoid them, is what we're saying. Yeah, big time.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:35Fearne Cotton?

  I agree. Have you sent a postcard recently? I've stopped doing that. I think we should bring that back.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  That is a great question.

• 38:41Fearne Cotton?

  Has anyone sent a postcard recently? No, of course not. It was in the eighties.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Because my, yeah, my dad used to love a postcard.

• 38:46Fearne Cotton?

  One person put their hand up.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 38:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, good on you.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 38:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, bring them back. They're still, you can still buy them. I've seen them, they're there.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  It's a beautiful gesture. Postcard letters are still, they're so valuable when someone takes the time to like write you something. Even, even if it is wish you were here, that is special.

• 39:02Fearne Cotton?

  It is cute. Yeah. Remember back in the day, you'd send a postcard and then your mate would get it a month later?

• 39:08Speaker 02

  And now it's what, like two or three days now?

• 39:09Fearne Cotton?

  And then you get it the same day now.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 39:11Fearne Cotton?

  It's taken the glamour away, isn't it, slightly? I'm going to be talking to Sarah Cox on this.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Love Coxey.

• 39:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we love Sarah Cox so much. I'll be chatting to Saz all about holiday reads during this series. Have you got a book you want to read or a book that you loved reading on the beach?

• 39:28Speaker 02

  So, I am about to reread Children of Blood and Bone. So it's this brilliant sort of like fantasy, like I love all that stuff.

• 39:36Fearne Cotton?

  Do you?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  I love witchy stuff.

• 39:37Fearne Cotton?

  But fairies and stuff.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that thing of like, oh, you've just turned 16 and you're a witch. Like, I love, I love, I love all that, I love all that kind of stuff. And it's being adapted into a movie, because I know they're shooting it at the moment. So I want to reread it so that when the film comes out.

• 39:50Fearne Cotton?

  You're ready.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm very much, I'm such a nerd like that. I love to know the source material.

• 39:55Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Before I watch like an adaptation so I can do a little compare and contrast.

• 39:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  So I'm going to reread that.

• 40:00Fearne Cotton?

  It's so rarely as good as the book. I know that's a bit of a cliche, but often you're like, oh, wasn't as good. Wasn't as good. Do you know what? We have got a live book club, Happy Place Book Club, happening here, I think it's tomorrow morning, with Lisa Jewell, who is obviously a phenomenal fiction writer. And she's got this book called Don't Let Him In, which is, for me, the summer read. It is so brilliant. I couldn't put it down. It's a bit of a thriller, but it is, it's sort of relentless. Like, how can it keep going? And I was sort of falling asleep reading it at night, but that is a good beach read. So if any of you are coming back tomorrow, we're going to be chatting all about that there. There's also the paperback of a book called Scripted that's out right now, and I wrote it.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Who wrote that?

• 40:42Fearne Cotton?

  If you want to get that for your holidays, please do. That would be really helpful. And finally, where is your holiday happy place, Clara Amfo?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Oh, do you know what? I think my holiday happy place is Ghana. That's my roots. And not just saying this, but BA are the only airline that fly there direct, haven't they?

• 41:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  We go back, we go back. But Ghana, that's where I feel, I just feel grounded and I feel, you know, connection to my family. And I just feel like one of the best versions of me when I'm there. And it's such a, if you've never been, I urge you to go Ghanaian hospitality. There's nothing like it, it's the best. If you like, if you like vibrant people, if you like bright colours, if you like to go out and dance, if you want beautiful beaches, great food, all of that, I highly recommend Ghana, that's my favourite place.

• 41:29Fearne Cotton?

  What would be your top tips if someone was like, right, I'm gonna book this trip? What are they doing? Which is maybe slightly off the tourist path.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Okay, oh, I mean, do you know what? But the touristy things are still fab. But I would say, obviously, go to, so when you go to Accra, book a trip to Kakum National Park. It's the big Ghanaian national park and you can see like monkeys and beautiful birds and zebras. And it's just, it's amazing. You feel like you're in The Lion King, like at Pride Rock.

• 41:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  It is incredible. Go to an area called Osu, which is sort of like the short itch of Accra. So it's sort of like trendy, sort of like hipster area. And there's an amazing bar called Republic and there's live karaoke every night.

• 42:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 42:08Fearne Cotton?

  What's your karaoke song?

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Mariah Carey, We Belong Together.

• 42:11Fearne Cotton?

  That is, I mean, that's, there's some high notes in that one.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, but that's why it's so great, because I can't sing it.

• 42:15Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, great.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  So for everyone else's entertainment, for my own, that's why I love it.

• 42:20Fearne Cotton?

  Can you do, I can't do karaoke unless I'm like heavily drunk. Can you do it sober?

• 42:24Speaker 02

  I'll do that shit sober.

• 42:25Fearne Cotton?

  Really? Will you?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Sorry, excuse my language, 100%.

• 42:27Fearne Cotton?

  I've only done it twice. I did it once when I was 17 in Mallorca. And there was a karaoke contest at my hotel. Me and my best mate, Ali Bowers, did Dancing Queen and we won, but there were two contestants. And then I did it again and it was a, I don't know if you were there. It was a Radio 1 party at a bowling alley. And I was with Greg James and I had drunk about 100 Moscow mules. And I went for Adele Rolling in the Deep.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  You know what, I think I might have missed that one.

• 42:57Fearne Cotton?

  It's not advised if you're planning karaoke trip. It's like, it's so, it's impossible to sing, only Adele can sing that song.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  But this is it, but again, that's the, that's the joy of karaoke.

• 43:05Fearne Cotton?

  And I played it on the radio and I was screeching, it was horrendous, it was so bad.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  We could have had it.

• 43:10Fearne Cotton?

  Correct, it's that. So we sang karaoke and what dish are we eating? What's the one dish we should eat in Ghana?

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Okay, so in Ghana, jollof rice is the best rice. It's like a lovely spicy rice, it's like flavoured like tomatoes and like local spices. And like tilapia fish is the best you'll ever have.

• 43:24Fearne Cotton?

  I love that fish.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Like, it's a seafood in Ghana, banging, banging. And the fruit as well, just all the fresh fruit you could eat, like, it's the best. And fan ice, it's like our, it's like our national ice cream, it's banging.

• 43:34Fearne Cotton?

  What's fan ice?

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Fan ice, so like the catchphrase is fan ice, ice, ice, so nice, nice, that's what that, it says on the advert. They should be paying me for this, run me a cheque Ghana.

• 43:42Fearne Cotton?

  You should be, you should be sponsored by them.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Obviously other ice creams in Ghana are available.

• 43:46Fearne Cotton?

  But what is it, like an ice cream and ice lolly?

• 43:47Speaker 02

  It's like a, it's like the national frozen like yogurt and it comes like this lovely sort of like peel off thing and it's just so delicious and yum.

• 43:54Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I want one.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  So yeah, and also the bottled fizzy drinks in Ghana are the best, they hit differently, I'm not joking.

• 43:59Fearne Cotton?

  Are they in glass bottles?

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:00Fearne Cotton?

  Because that makes it better.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:01Fearne Cotton?

  We all know that, it makes it better.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  It genuinely tastes different, so yeah, get yourself a, obviously other drinks are available, but a bottled Fanta in Ghana is going to change your life.

• 44:08Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god, I am, I want to go, desperately.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  I promise you.

• 44:11Fearne Cotton?

  Um, Clara, what a joy to have you at the Happy Place Festival.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Anytime, babe.

• 44:16Fearne Cotton?

  I am so happy to have you here.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Pleasure.

• 44:18Fearne Cotton?

  As I said, you need to go in the shopping tent, which is literally there.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Listen, don't fret me with a good time.

• 44:23Fearne Cotton?

  There are so many good brands in there, I am going to spend so much money this weekend, I can't wait. Um, Clara Ampfo, we love you so dearly.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Love you right back, phone cotton.

• 44:30Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you for being on Happy Place.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  And thanks everyone for coming.

• 44:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh Clara, I love you Clara. What an amazing, special lady you are. Now if you want to help taking your holidays more seriously, then you know where to go. British Airways Holidays allows you to book with a low deposit and pay off your holiday in flexible instalments. They offer a 24 hour holiday helpline and all holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. What's more, all British Airways holidays are at all protected, so they've got you well and truly covered. Next time, by the way, is the final episode in this mini series and my hilarious pal Sarah Cox is going to be here. We're going to be chatting to her about the power of escaping into a deliciously good holiday read. So I hope you'll be back here for that.

• 45:18Fearne Cotton?

  In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Clara, to British Airways Holidays for making this chat happen, to the producers of this episode, Anushka Tate and Basil Oxtoby, and to you, you're gorgeous.