Pod Insights Scamfluencers Pras Michel: The Fugee Felon | 168 About this episode Fugees founder Pras Michel is struggling to pivot to a new career when he meets Malaysian billionaire playboy and criminal mastermind Jho Low. He’s handsomely rewarded for helping Jho make political connections, but over time Jho’s asks get bigger and the implications far more serious. Eventually, Pras finds himself at the center of a global geopolitical caper involving far-right figures, an international scam, and even hostage negotiations. When Pras admits to the law he’s in over his head, they turn him into the figurehead of a wide-ranging scandal.
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Transcript 9,005 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Sarah Hagi? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:14 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, I feel like everyone around our age has a very specific and profound relationship with The Fugees. Do you?
0:22 Sarah Hagi? Oh, big time. And my two older sisters were like the age to actually listen to The Fugees.
0:29 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
0:30 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
0:30 Scaachi Koul? My brother, too. This is the same thing.
0:32 Sarah Hagi? Yeah. You know, it's just one of those bands where you're like, I know more of their songs than I probably even realized, that I can sing off by heart.
0:40 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. I feel like, obviously, I love music, but I love mess. And so I love The Fugees. Because like between the secret hookups and their very public feuds, they were kind of like a disaster waiting to happen.
0:52 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, there was drama in that band, for sure. They were everywhere all the time.
0:57 Scaachi Koul? Well, Sarah, all that drama pales in comparison with what happened after the band broke up. Would you trust the least famous Fuji with an international prisoner exchange? No? Well, today, I'm going to tell you about how Pras Michel became the spy no one asked for.
1:19 Scaachi Koul? It's 2006 in New York City, and Pras Michel is planning on having a quiet night in, until he gets a call from a club promoter. The promoter's a friend, and he's looking for a celebrity to come to a club and party with a billionaire tonight. Pras is a tall, lanky Haitian-American in his 30s. He's past the peak of his fame, but he's still a big deal. He's part of the on-again, off-again rap group The Fugees, which has won two Grammys and sold over 20 million albums. The Fugees disbanded back in 1997 and only recently got back together about two years ago. But their reunion has been pretty tumultuous, so Pras has turned his attention to documentaries. His latest project is all about the realities of poverty, but being a filmmaker isn't as
2:03 Scaachi Koul? lucrative as being in one of the biggest rap groups of the 90s. So even though Pras doesn't drink, he agrees to go to the nightclub and collect an appearance fee. Plus, he wants to help out his friend. Later that night, Pras walks into PM, a dimly lit club in the Meatpacking District. He weaves through leather booths and tables offering overpriced bottle service and makes his way to the VIP area. And that is where he meets the billionaire, Joe Lo.
2:31 Sarah Hagi? I mean, we know him. He's famous to us. I mean, we did cover him.
2:37 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
2:38 Sarah Hagi? He is a scammer billionaire who loves being around celebrities.
2:43 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, he does. Joe is a Malaysian businessman in his mid-20s with a short, stocky frame, wire glasses, and a big ego. He's known for paying celebrities like Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, and Leonardo DiCaprio to party with him. And Pras is tonight's A-lister. It's a pretty routine night at the club, until some Wall Street douchebags take the DJ's microphone and announce that they're the richest people in the club. And to prove it, they're buying everybody a drink. The crowd cheers, but Joe is not one to be updone. He pays 20 grand to use the DJ's mic and yells, "Stop the music." The record scratches, and Joe instantly has everyone's attention. He offers a correction.
3:28 Scaachi Koul? He is the richest guy here, and he wants to prove it by buying every bottle in the club. Champagne, liquor, water, everything. But that's still not enough for Joe. He reportedly has someone go to the club across the street and buy every bottle there, too. The crowd goes wild, and the DJ starts playing "We Will Rock You."
3:51 Sarah Hagi? You know, this is famously how love works. It requires no authentic emotion or connection. It just requires...
4:00 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
4:02 Sarah Hagi? You have to be seen. And he wants to be seen as the richest guy in the club, at the other club. And he's happy you know that now. And now you love him, and he loves you.
4:12 Scaachi Koul? Correct. It's seamless.
4:15 Scaachi Koul? And Praze is impressed. He may be a big performer, but he's never seen a crowd go nuts like this. By Praze's estimations, Joe just spent at least a million dollars like it was nothing. Praze goes home and likely laughs off this insane evening, never planning to see Joe again. But in a few years, the two men will reconnect. But this time, the night won't end with champagne and queen. Joe's about to become one of the most wanted men in the world. And Praze will go from a rap superstar to secret power broker in a billion-dollar international scandal.
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5:42 Speaker 03 I'm Lauren Malloy, the host of the podcast My Mom's Murder. For 30 years, I thought my mom died of natural causes. That's what everyone told me. That's what I believed. Until one day, I got a phone call that changed everything. A woman claiming to be my mom's best friend told me my mother was murdered and that no one had ever investigated it. So I did what the detectives wouldn't: pulled the threads, knocked on doors, and confronted the contradictions. And what I found, it's worse than I imagined. Something happened to my mom. Someone killed her. And I won't stop until I find out who.
6:24 Speaker 03 The system may have given up on my mom, but I never will. Listen to My Mom's Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 10 episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
6:45 Scaachi Koul? From Wondery, I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And this is Scamfluencers.
6:59 Scaachi Koul? Pras Michel is a man of contradictions. He's in the Fugees, but he's the least famous one. He's an activist who also loves luxury goods. After rising to international fame, Pras tried to find a way to keep up his celebrity lifestyle and make a positive societal impact. But his two desires were often at odds, and in the end, greed won. Pras got seduced by the allure of easy money and thought the power of celebrity would insulate him from campaign finance law and extradition agreements. By the time he realized how deep of a hole he dug for himself, it was far too late to get out. Ready or not, this is Pras Michel, the Fuji felon.
7:45 Scaachi Koul? Let's go back to when we all probably first heard of Pras Michel. It's 1997, and the 39th Annual Grammy Awards are being held at Madison Square Garden. Ellen DeGeneres is hosting in her pre-c coming-out era. LeAnn Rimes, Jewel, and No Doubt are all up for Best New Artist. But right now, everyone is on the edge of their seats to see who will win Best Rap Album. Will it be Tupac, LL Cool J, or a new group called The Fugees? Toni Braxton reads the results. And the best rap album is?
8:22 Scaachi Koul? The Fugees.
8:24 Scaachi Koul? The audience erupts in cheers as 24-year-old Pras, in a sweatshirt and jeans, takes the stage with his bandmates, Wyclef Jean and Lauryn Hill. They each take a turn at the mic, where Pras says:
8:36 Speaker 04 To everybody who made it happen for The Fugees, thank you for supporting us.
8:41 Scaachi Koul? This is the second Grammy the trio takes home that night, and Pras is over the moon. Something like this was unimaginable to him as a child. He was raised in New Jersey by strict Haitian parents, who forbade him from watching TV, listening to pop music, or even wearing sneakers. He could only indulge in music by singing and performing in his church's band. But, once he made it to high school, Pras found ways to branch out. In 1989, when he was 14, he met a classmate named Lauren Hill. And together, along with Pras's closest friend, Wyclef Jean, they formed a band called The Fugees, named as a nod to refugees. They started creating music with a specific goal in mind: promoting political and social change. As Pras told MTV years later,
9:26 Scaachi Koul? when they covered a Fugees concert in Haiti...
9:29 Speaker 04 Wherever we feel like refugees had a bad name, and that's what we represent, is trying to uplift the people, give people a sense of pride, you know what I mean?
9:39 Scaachi Koul? Growing up, Pras's parents were deeply invested in Haitian politics, and Pras took an interest in activism at an early age. The Fugees was just one way Pras planned to get his voice heard. It wasn't until the group's sophomore album in 1996 that they really blew up. It's called "The Score", and it's the album that earns them two Grammys and skyrockets them to stardom. Sarah, I know you know the Fugee song, "Killing Me Softly."
10:04 Sarah Hagi? Yes, of course. Classic song, perfect song. Introduced me to Roberta Flack. A classic and a banger to this day. Perfect song.
10:14 Scaachi Koul? Perfect song, and it's a song that makes Pras mega-famous and an instant millionaire. The album ultimately sells more than 18 million copies, and concert sales and royalties keep the cash flowing. As Pras says later, quote, "I went from being on the streets of Newark to Park Avenue overnight."
10:35 Scaachi Koul? During this time, Pras gains a reputation for flaunting his wealth. He lives in a $30,000 a month New York apartment and drives a Lamborghini SUV. He wears Rolexes and gold rings and always has the latest cellphone, a real status symbol in the mid-'90s. His financial adviser even scolds him for going a quarter of a million dollars over budget in just two months. But unfortunately for Pras, the Fujis' success is short-lived. Wyclef and Lauren had been having a tumultuous, long-time affair, and the drama becomes too much. In 1997, they all start releasing solo music. A year later, Pras hits the charts with his single "Ghetto Superstar", featuring Maya. Sarah, do you remember this song?
11:20 Sarah Hagi? Oh my, do I remember this song?
11:22 Scaachi Koul? Such a good song.
11:24 Sarah Hagi? It's in my mind forever. It's like one of those songs you'll know for your whole life.
11:29 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, man, it was a bop. But you know what? It's not enough to launch Pras's solo career. So, a decade after the Fujis gained worldwide fame, 33-year-old Pras makes a big decision. He's switching from music to movies. He'll continue to build on the Fujis' legacy of socially conscious entertainment. And to do this, he'll take to the streets in a way he never has before.
11:57 Scaachi Koul? It's 2006, and Pras is living on the streets of Skid Row in Los Angeles. But he isn't actually unhoused. He's doing gonzo journalism and secretly filming himself. It's all for a documentary that he hopes will foster empathy and put a spotlight on L.A.'s housing crisis. Naturally, Pras has made himself the star. He spends nine days and nine nights on Skid Row, surrounded by addiction and in constant fear of violence. It's terrifying and emotionally exhausting, but Pras is happy he's using his money and image for a good cause. As Pras says in the movie's trailer,
12:32 Speaker 05 I don't have a solution for this. The one thing that I would like is to at least let people know that it does exist.
12:43 Sarah Hagi? Okay, um, you know, I don't have a lot of patience for this type of famous person who's like, "I can now say something important because nobody else has done this before." And then they do it in a way where it's like just about them.
12:58 Scaachi Koul? Yeah. Well, after he finishes filming, Pras returns to New York and his Park Avenue apartment to relax. This is around the time that he first meets Joe at the club. But Pras isn't drawn in by Joe's excess. He's still looking for a cause he can believe in. And before long, he discovers one: Barack Obama. It's 2007, and a housing advocacy organization in downtown LA invites Pras to a rally for the presidential candidate. At the event, Pras and Obama start chatting, and Obama invites him to a Beverly Hills fundraiser hosted by a few Hollywood bigwigs, including Steven Spielberg. When Pras balks at the $40,000 ticket price, Obama says, "Don't worry
13:41 Scaachi Koul? about it." He invites Pras to come for free as his guest.
13:45 Sarah Hagi? Well, yes, understandable because a disease Obama has is that he loves celebrities.
13:53 Scaachi Koul? He really does. Well, Pras watches in awe as Obama charms the room and raises more than $1 million for his campaign efforts. And Pras is inspired. He becomes a celebrity face for the campaign, helping them in any way he can. When Obama wins, becoming America's first black president, Pras feels like he was part of a powerful new movement. Six months after the election, Pras travels to Somalia to film another documentary, this time about pirates. Pras later claims he witnessed the hijacking that inspired the movie Captain Phillips, and says that he was actually taken captive by pirates, too. But this documentary never gets released.
14:35 Sarah Hagi? Wow, you know, this is really my moment to shine. As a Somali host of scamfluencers, the most ambitious type of person is someone who wants to film a documentary in Somalia because, honey, it ain't happening.
14:48 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
14:49 Sarah Hagi? You will never get the access. You'll never meet the right people. There's no wonder this has not been seen. I highly doubt he was a witness to the Captain Phillips
14:59 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
15:00 Sarah Hagi? hijacking because that was a really big one.
15:02 Scaachi Koul? It sure was. It was a major one.
15:04 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
15:06 Scaachi Koul? Well, predictably, Pras returns to politics, this time in his parents' native country, Haiti. He supports a musician who's running for president there and films the entire campaign. The musician gets elected, but his presidency ends up being a disaster, steeped in corruption. Pras is still hell-bent on making a real difference, so he refocuses on domestic politics. Obama's about to start his reelection campaign, and Pras' history with the candidate is going to make him a target for people looking to get into the world's most exclusive club, Obama's Inner Circle.
15:45 Scaachi Koul? In early 2012, Pras gets another call from his club promoter friend. Again, the friend is on a mission to get something for the billionaire, Joe Low. But this time, it's more than just a celebrity hang. Joe wants a picture with President Obama, and he's wondering, can Pras help hook that up?
16:04 Scaachi Koul? Pras is a little taken aback by this ask. It's kind of audacious, but Pras hasn't found his next windfall. At this point, his personal bank account has a little more than $1,300 in it. He's never forgotten Joe's outrageous spending the night they met at the club, so Pras quips he'll think about it for $1 million. He mostly says it as a lark, but sure enough, a few days later, Pras gets word that $1 million has been transferred to his bank account.
16:35 Sarah Hagi? Oh my god. That is... I bet you anything he didn't think it was going to work out that way. Like, imagine having $1,300 and then being like, hmm, what if I save $1 million?
16:48 Scaachi Koul? It's like rubbing a genie lamp.
16:50 Sarah Hagi? It's truly easier than making a wish.
16:53 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
16:56 Scaachi Koul? Well, the problem is now Pras is on the hook to try to make this happen. And while Pras may have met Obama in the past, he has no idea how he's going to get Joe this photo. But he starts by funneling some of the money he received straight into Obama's campaign to grease the wheels and cozy up to Obama staffers. Now, this is where Pras and the government's stories start to diverge. In the US, it's illegal for anyone but US citizens to make political donations. And all political donations over $200 are tracked and reported to the Federal Election Commission. As a political advocate, Praze probably already knows this, but he later argued in court that there was one clear distinction. He wasn't spending Joe's money.
17:40 Scaachi Koul? He was spending the money Joe gave him, which makes it Praze's money. This might sound confusing, but it is an important distinction. The US government later accuses Joe of giving Praze millions to influence the presidential election and that the picture was just a prop. But Joe really seems to want this photo. In June, he flies from Singapore to Miami because Praze says that he can get him into a fundraiser with Obama. But the Secret Service and Obama's campaign reject Praze's request. They can't allow a foreign national at a paid fundraiser, especially someone like Joe, whose reputation is more international party boy than political ally. So Joe flew across the world for nothing.
18:25 Scaachi Koul? But this doesn't stop his quest for a photo. Joe wants influence, and in his experience, the best way to get anything is with money. So he keeps throwing money at Praze, hoping he can get him his Kodak moment. During the final months of the 2012 campaign, Joe sends Praze more than $21 million. Praze never discloses this to the FEC or the IRS. Instead, he enlists 20 friends to act as straw donors, and they send some of the money to Obama's reelection campaign. A straw donor is basically someone you pay to donate your money so you don't have to report it. This whole process is super shady, but straw donors are not rare. Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump
19:09 Scaachi Koul? have all been implicated in straw donor scandals in the past. You would think that Praze would think twice before messing with the government, especially since his girl Lauryn Hill recently pled guilty to tax fraud. But apparently, Praze is undeterred. Altogether, about $2 million of Joe's money makes it to Obama's campaign fund. But despite all of the money he's given to Praze, his coveted photo remains out of reach. And Joe isn't exactly known for his patience or his willingness to take no for an answer.
19:41 Scaachi Koul? In September 2012, a few months after his failure in Miami, Pras lets Joe know that he's helping put together a campaign fundraising dinner in DC, and he's pushing for Joe to have a seat at the table. But the campaign denies the request again, and now Joe is getting impatient. So he pressures Pras to at least get his father into the dinner. This request is successful. Pras happily reports back to Joe that his father got multiple photos with Obama. It's a step in the right direction, but it's not what Joe's paid for. Three days before the election, Joe throws himself a birthday party, and this is no pizza party at Chuck E. Cheese, Sarah. Picture Hollywood's A-list gathered in a Vegas airplane hangar
20:25 Scaachi Koul? that's been converted into an indoor carnival, complete with Ferris wheel and Kentucky Fried Chicken stand. Leonardo DiCaprio raps. Britney Spears jumps out of a cake. Robert De Niro is also there for some reason. But Pras says that even with all of that going on, Joe was still focused on getting that picture with Obama. Pras later testifies that at the after-party in Joe's penthouse suite, Joe was asking about it. He says they tried to have the conversation in the suite's living room, but it was a bit crowded because there was a Ferrari in the middle of it. So they moved to the balcony so Pras could explain how getting the photo would work and how much Joe would have to pay.
21:07 Sarah Hagi? You know, I am so confused here because it's like, in part, I understand wanting the photo, like, for his own image, but also this idea that it's kind of more about, no, I can get whatever I want and I'm going to get it, even though it's like, you know, it should be pretty easy for a rich person to get a photo with a politician, you know?
21:31 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, must be driving him nuts, honestly.
21:33 Sarah Hagi? This is truly his white whale. He could, he could have anything he wants, except for this.
21:38 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, I know. He can't get over it. Well, three days later, Obama wins reelection, and one of Pras's campaign contacts is able to bring Joe to the White House's holiday party, for which Joe coughed up an additional $20 million, this time to a campaign insider. Sarah, can you describe the photo, the legendary photo?
21:59 Sarah Hagi? Yes. You know, it's a photo of Barack and Michelle Obama, as beautiful as they've ever looked, in front of a Christmas tree. And between them is Joe Lo, and he looks so happy. And then it's like a holiday card, you know, signed holidays, Barack and Michelle Obama, whatever. It's really funny because it looks like the kind of photos, honestly, influencers get with the president.
22:28 Scaachi Koul? Well, Sarah, all it took was nine months and $41 million, but finally, Joe has his photo with Barack Obama. Pras has received millions of dollars from the effort. And all seems well, except behind the scenes, multiple international agencies are coming for Joe. You might remember Joe from our previous episode of Scam influencers all about his misdeeds. But in case you missed it, in 2008, Joe convinced the Prime Minister of Malaysia to set up a sovereign wealth fund called One M D B. The billions of taxpayer dollars that made up the fund were supposed to go back into Malaysian programs and infrastructure. Instead, the Prime Minister allowed Joe to illegally transfer the money to himself and their co-conspirators. That's how Joe is footing the bill
23:13 Scaachi Koul? for his larger-than-life parties with the biggest celebrities on the planet. But Joe won't get away with ripping off all of Malaysia for long. And once he's discovered, international law enforcement agencies won't stop until they've tracked down all the stolen money, including the money now sitting in Pras's pocket.
23:34 Speaker 06 Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
23:54 Speaker 07 Imagine you're reading Pride and Prejudice, except you're not reading it. Harris Dickinson and Marissa Abella are reading it to you on Audible. Her barbs sting you. His coldness sends a shiver up your spine. Your heart aches. Your ears burn. You yearn for Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy to profess their undying love for one another. You can't bear it any longer. Well, maybe a chapter longer. Performance is so good, you'll give love a second chance. Audible. Stories that speak to you.
24:33 Scaachi Koul? It's a few years later in 2016. An FBI agent, Robert Huchling, has spent the last year obsessively investigating Joe. Robert's based in New York and has been overseeing a special squad focused on international corruption, money laundering, and antitrust investigations. A British journalist has just uncovered the OneMDB scandal and exposed how Joe and the Malaysian prime minister stole $4 billion from the people of Malaysia. And Robert has been gathering evidence to try Joe for his crimes in the US. As a former naval officer, Robert has an eye for detail, and he's been closely tracking Joe's confusing international banking moves. Now, his team has enough evidence to take the case to the courts.
25:15 Scaachi Koul? With Robert's information, the federal courts in California demand that Joe and his co-conspirators turn over $1 billion in assets. Joe owns mansions and hotels, a private jet, the music giant EMI Records. Plus, the government wants the rights to the movie he bankrolled, The Wolf of Wall Street. And maybe more importantly, Joe's other film investment, Dumb and Dumber 2. Oh my god. Yeah, I knew that one would hurt you. Well, there's only one thing standing in the way of a major victory for Robert. Joe has fled the States, and no one can find him. He's an international criminal, and he's already wanted by both Malaysia and Interpol. So Robert will just have to get in line.
25:58 Scaachi Koul? There are rumors that Joe's hiding out in China. Apparently, they've offered to bail out OneMDB's debts. And China must look pretty appealing to Joe, because the country usually refuses to work with the US to extradite accused criminals. But Robert isn't deterred. This is just the beginning of his mission to bring Joe to justice. And while Robert waits, he'll start to look at anyone who's been in Joe's inner circle to see what they know and whether they helped Joe with his sprawling scheme.
26:31 Scaachi Koul? A few weeks after Joe's US assets are seized, Pras goes vacationing in Cote d'Azur. It's the summer of 2016 and he's living large on the French Riviera, trying to forget his troubles. Recently, Pras was contacted by the FEC about potentially violating campaign finance laws. They haven't formally pressed charges, but Pras is feeling the heat. And with Joe in hiding, Pras doesn't have access to his help or his money. But that's when Pras happens to run into Joe's brother, Sen, who he's met a few times over the years. Sen gives Pras Joe's new number and begs for Pras's help. He claims that all the allegations against Joe are false. Joe's annoyed that his US legal team is moving so slowly.
27:14 Scaachi Koul? And since Pras was so helpful with the Obama photo, he has a feeling Pras could help him again. Now, this is a pivotal moment for Pras. He can walk away from Joe and stay above the law from here on out. But Pras has been looking for his next big thing. The Fujis can't get a proper reunion tour off the ground. His documentaries aren't making money. He's trying to become an investor, but he doesn't have enough capital. And all the while, Joe has millions stashed in hidden foreign accounts. So Pras gets back in touch with Joe and tells him he's happy to help for a fee. Joe tells Pras his plan. He's willing to pay over $100 million to whoever can make the one MDB investigation disappear in the US. And he wants new lawyers,
27:59 Scaachi Koul? ones who have significant pull with the US government. This would be enough money to set Pras up for life, even as a man with expensive taste. Pras is in. For the last year, he's been busy raising money for Hillary Clinton, who's projected to beat Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election by a landslide. Given his political history, Pras doesn't think it'll be hard to find someone in the new administration who's willing to take money to help Joe. But then Hillary doesn't win and Prauz is suddenly screwed because he has no political power with Republicans. Prauz starts hunting around for GOP connections. According to the official FBI record, a friend lets him know that Trump is looking for black
28:41 Scaachi Koul? celebrities to come support him at his inauguration, but that is a bridge too far for Prauz.
28:48 Sarah Hagi? It's clear to me that even if he's scared of the optics of this, like of how it would look if he was publicly supporting Trump, this is still enough about money that he's still willing to do stuff behind the scenes, which I think is true for a lot of people.
29:01 Scaachi Koul? Yes, exactly. Prauz scours his connections and through a friend, he sets a meeting with Elliot Brody, the deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee. Elliot is a round, smiling, mustachioed white guy who looks like a sunburned Midwestern dad. Elliot is close with Trump's attorney general, Jeff Sessions, which means he's got just enough political power to actually pull this off for Joe. So in March 2017, Prauz meets with Elliot in LA. He tells Elliot that Joe really isn't a bad guy. He just needs help dealing with this little legal issue. Elliot wants a $15 million retainer, but Prauz talks him down to $8 million, plus
29:41 Scaachi Koul? a $75 million success fee if Elliot can get the DOJ to drop Joe's charges and release his seized assets in the next six months. Elliot agrees to the terms as long as he isn't paid directly by Joe. So Prauz offers to be the go-between for the funds, making it nice and easy for him to take his cut right off the top. This seems like an easy payday for Prauz, and Prauz's attorney will later claim that Prauz thought Elliot was a lawyer and this was all about Elliot representing Joe in some way. The trio meet up in Bangkok that spring and Joe starts wiring money. In May 2017, he requests a follow-up meeting with Prauz and Elliot in Hong Kong.
30:22 Scaachi Koul? But when they arrive, Joe tells them that the meeting spot has changed, and now it's in mainland China. China has a completely different visa system to Hong Kong, and Prauz and Elliot don't have permission to be on the mainland. Plus, the Chinese government is known for their harsh punishments. Ignoring their laws could send Pras and Elliot to Chinese prison. But Pras can't turn back now, so he assumes Joe has everything handled and proceeds to illegally cross the border. And for a moment, it seems like a bad bet. As Pras later tells Variety, Chinese Communist Party officials take their passports, blindfold them, and drive them to the border like captives.
31:04 Scaachi Koul? Eventually, their group is waved through the border crossing without incident. And once they're over the border, their blindfolds are removed. And that is when they see that they're at a hotel. Joe is there, and he escorts them to a suite. Pras opens the door to a thick fog of cigarette smoke. Waiting inside is Sun Li Jun, China's Vice Minister of Public Security and his heavily armed entourage. Sun has a round face, a sharp haircut, and unhappy-looking eyes behind square glasses. He's also the third highest-ranking official in all of the People's Republic.
31:37 Sarah Hagi? You know, to add a layer of how crazy this is, Pras is now in the same room as, like, the Vice Minister of Public Security, a man who has secrets that all the money in the world couldn't buy. I don't know, to me, it's just like, what a crazy life you must be having.
31:57 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, all of this is beyond imagination. Well, Joe has brought Elliot and Pras here to work out a deal. The Chinese government wants the US to extradite Guo Wengwei, a wanted Chinese citizen who's been living freely in America. Guo is a Chinese billionaire wanted in his home country for corruption, bribery, and rape. In exchange for Guo, China is willing to release American prisoners and potentially cooperate on cybersecurity issues.
32:26 Sarah Hagi? I will tell you, Sachi, that I am very familiar with Guo Wengwei, and so will you be, because he gets his own story.
32:35 Scaachi Koul? I love when the episodes talk to each other.
32:37 Sarah Hagi? This is a crossover.
32:38 Scaachi Koul? I love a crossover. Well, we don't know exactly why Joe got involved in this extradition, but it's likely he just thought it would help him curry favor with the Chinese government. Either way, it seems like a reasonable trade to Elliot, who suggests that he can bring the deal to the right people in the US. He later says he agreed to help in part because it would be, quote, "an incredible step forward in China-US relations."
33:03 Scaachi Koul? The only problem is Elliott has no real political authority. But he reassures Sun that he can schedule a meeting for him and the US Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, to discuss the matter. Sun is satisfied, and he lets Pras and Elliott travel safely back to Hong Kong and return home to handle their end of the deal. With this, Pras has officially crossed the line into acting as an unregistered foreign agent by secretly lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. Although the trip was terrifying, Pras later admits to Variety that, as a fan of spy movies, he was excited by the situation. He says it even felt a little sexy. It's unclear if Pras is overly confident or just ignorant of the danger he's putting himself in.
33:48 Scaachi Koul? Regardless, with their connections, Pras and Elliott figure it shouldn't be hard to get one man extradited. But little do they know, Guo has been weaseling his way into the US's new political landscape, and he is way ahead of them.
34:08 Scaachi Koul? While Pras has been cozying up to China, Guo's been infiltrating Trump's inner circle. Guo is a fit, clean-cut businessman who's always rocking a perfectly tailored suit and close-cropped hair. Guo might be exiled from China, but he's living large in America. Lately, he's been splitting his time between his New York penthouse and Florida's Mar-a-Lago, where he recently paid $200,000 to become a member. Guo is doing whatever he can to schmooze at what Trump calls "the Southern White House." He's even started to attend Trump's church, likely to curry favor. But the biggest boon of all has been his fast friendship with Trump's chief strategist, Steve Bannon.
34:49 Sarah Hagi? You know, Steve Bannon is one of the OG Trump people that I really don't think is hard to access. Like, I think there are a lot of people who can find themselves becoming friends with Steve Bannon. All he does is try and find connections to people.
35:07 Scaachi Koul? He is a political Kevin Bacon, correct. While China paints Guo as a criminal, Guo claims to be a whistleblower being silenced by a corrupt government. Is he a victim or a criminal? That is a story for another time, which, as you mentioned, Sarah, we'll get into next week's episode, all about Guo. But lately, Guo's been spending his time on YouTube, calling out corruption in the Chinese government. Guo's friendships with Trump's inner circle may be helpful for him, but they create a real problem for Pras. It's going to be hard to get Republicans to turn on their new Chinese pal. And it doesn't help that China and the US historically do not get along.
35:48 Scaachi Koul? In May 2017, Sun heads to DC for his promised meeting with Jeff Sessions. But when he arrives, Jeff isn't there. Sun is furious, so he calls Joe and tells him to fix this. And you can guess who Joe's about to call for backup. A few nights later, Pras is awoken in the middle of the night by a cryptic phone call. The voice on the other end tells him to meet his, quote, cousin from China at the Four Seasons in New York City. Pras rushes out of bed and leaves. He knows this is an assignment from Joe, but he has no idea what he's about to walk into. At the hotel, Pras heads to the front desk and says the code phrase he was given: banana
36:33 Scaachi Koul? peel. The concierge hands Pras a note that instructs him to walk around the block twice. After he returns, he's taken to a secret elevator that's only used for people deemed assassination risks. Pras has been pampered for years now, but this security is next level. When Pras exits the elevator, he's faced with an empty suite. And while he waits nervously, he tries to convince himself. He can't get murdered at a Four Seasons, right? About 20 minutes later, a Chinese security agent arrives and escorts Pras from the suite to the penthouse. And when he walks in, another agent confiscates his cellphone. Finally, Sun storms into the room waving around a cigarette and screaming in a Chinese dialect.
37:17 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, will you read what the translator told Pras that Sun was yelling? Yes. He was yelling, "Who the fuck do the US government think they are?" I mean, fair question. Fair question. I have been asking myself this for years. Well, Pras is completely untrained in diplomatic relationships and pretty unsure of what to do. But he knows that Sun was willing to release detained US citizens in exchange for Guo. So he suggests that it might work in China's favor to release one of the detainees as an act of goodwill. Sun calms down. He starts speaking in English and excuses himself to make a call to Xi Jinping, the president of the People's Republic of China.
37:59 Scaachi Koul? After a few minutes, Sun returns and asks Pras, "When do you want the citizen back?" Again, Pras has no idea what he's doing, so he's like, I don't know, like tomorrow? They eventually settle on the following Tuesday. Sun hangs up and seems satisfied with this next move. Surely, this will grease the wheels to get Guo back to China. It is, again, so crazy Pras is tied up in this in any remote sense, but also being so close to someone who's like, "Okay, I'm just gonna go talk to the president of China now." Like, what is this? It's gotten so intense and so geopolitical so fast. Sun finally lets Pras leave the hotel.
38:42 Scaachi Koul? And the US citizen does actually get back home by Tuesday. But the Trump administration still won't budge on returning Guo. And Pras needs results ASAP, or his next meeting with Sun might not end so well. Pras is smart enough to know that he is in way over his head, and he needs help. But he's apparently not smart enough, because he contacts the FBI directly. Soon after, Pras sits down with agents at a Manhattan restaurant and tells the truth, which is about to throw his life and US-Chinese relations into chaos.
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41:00 Scaachi Koul? Agent Robert at the FBI can't believe his luck when his coworkers tell him there's been a break in locating Joe Lo. This is the biggest case of his career, so he'll take any leads he can get. Robert learns that Pras recently contacted the FBI directly and told agents that he's helping his Chinese friend, John, get Guo extradited. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that John is just an alias for Joe. It's unclear if Pras knows it's illegal to be an unregistered lobbyist for a foreign nation. Regardless, he's knowingly walked into the lion's den, and Robert isn't letting this opportunity slip away. Robert hears that Pras is at brunch at his local haunt in Soho. So he goes to the restaurant and crashes the meal,
41:43 Scaachi Koul? pretending to be interested in helping Pras with Guo. Robert hands Pras 12 photos of Chinese officials, and Pras points out the faces of Sun and members of his security team. Pras even admits to Robert that he met with them at the Four Seasons. Robert thanks Pras for his intel and guarantees they'll stay in touch.
42:02 Sarah Hagi? Oh my god, this is so messed up. Like, no official statement, no lawyers, no guarantees of anything. He just straight up, like, I don't understand why he would do something that stupid.
42:14 Scaachi Koul? It's kind of his thing, Sarah. Well, while Pras gets little traction in his quest to get Guo extradited, Robert starts looking into Pras's finances. And he finds a very dodgy trail, one that he can use. In January 2018, Robert and another FBI agent are welcomed by Pras into the fancy high-rise office he uses in LA. Robert cuts right to the chase. They found a money trail that leads from shady foreign accounts straight to Pras. Robert wants him to flip on Joe to save himself. But instead, Pras lies. He tells them the funds are from a Thai businessman who's investing in his entertainment projects. But Robert isn't buying it. The next day, Pras has served a grand jury subpoena
42:57 Scaachi Koul? to turn over any documents related to Joe. And later that month, Robert thinks he's broken the case when he finally tracks down Joe's yacht in Bali. But Joe escapes to Indonesia before the FBI can capture him. On the bright side, Robert's able to seize the yacht, which is the final outstanding asset bought with OneMDB funds. Robert is closing in, and he's sick of waiting for Joe to be in custody to take action. So in November of that year, the US government goes ahead and files a criminal indictment against Joe for laundering and embezzling billions of dollars. And since the US government can't reach Joe or his money, they decide to go after the next best thing: Pras.
43:40 Scaachi Koul? That month, the government seizes $74 million of Pras's assets. If the government drains Pras's resources, he's more likely to turn on Joe. But Pras isn't a snitch, and he's not going to go down without a fight.
43:57 Scaachi Koul? It's February 2019 and Pras is panicking. The government has already taken his money and it's only a matter of time before they arrest him for his dealings with Joe. On the advice of his legal counsel, Pras starts demanding money back from all of his straw donors. He claims the money he gave them over six years ago was a loan. And if they don't pay him back right away, he'll sue them. As you might expect, this doesn't go well and they don't give him any money. A few months later, in May, Pras is officially indicted on four criminal counts for illegal contributions to Obama's campaign. Pras is offered a plea deal, but he turns it down. He truly believes he didn't do anything wrong.
44:38 Scaachi Koul? In November, Pras is leaving his New York apartment for a first date when he's swarmed by federal agents. Robert steps out of a parked car and announces they have a search warrant to confiscate Pras' phones. The government's raising the stakes against Pras, hoping he'll finally flip on Joe. But instead, Pras just turns over his phones, claiming he has nothing to hide. The whole process takes long enough that Pras completely stands up his date with no way to contact her and explain. Pras watches as the feds come for his co-conspirators, including Elliot. And unlike Pras, everyone starts pleading guilty. But Pras stays the course. He'd rather be the fall guy than be the snitch. And it's worth mentioning that while Joe's American henchmen are all fighting for their
45:23 Scaachi Koul? lives in the US, Joe's living with his family in China and at one point was spotted having the time of his life at Shanghai Disneyland.
45:31 Sarah Hagi? I mean, I feel like Joe can't not have fun. No matter what's going on in his life, he's gonna be doing something fun. He's gonna find a way to have fun and to be seen having fun and to make people thankful that he was able to give them a fun day.
45:48 Scaachi Koul? He's the life of the party.
45:51 Scaachi Koul? In June 2021, the government, now led by President Joe Biden, files an additional eight charges against Pras. They're accusing him of bank fraud, witness tampering, and violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act by working as an unregistered agent for the People's Republic of China. It should be noted that this act is a law enacted in the 1930s to combat Nazism and is hardly ever used. It's clear that they're throwing the book at Pras. But still, he doesn't buckle. He's gonna try his luck in court. And like a lot of his other decisions, it's not gonna go well. In March 2023, Pras's trial finally begins. The FBI still really wants Joe. But if they can't have him, they'll happily punish Pras in his place.
46:36 Scaachi Koul? Things start off rocky. Pras hires the attorney who represented the former record executive, Shug Knight, in his murder case. And he's not great. He has very little experience with white collar crime, and it shows. The jury is visibly bored for days, until Leonardo DiCaprio takes the stand as a witness. One juror literally applauds and leans back in his chair. Although Leo admits to being a Fugees fan and attending a concert in the 90s, he testifies that Joe did express to him his intent to make a major donation to the Democratic Party. Pras's claim that Joe only paid him for a photo with Obama is getting less and less believable. To make matters worse,
47:20 Scaachi Koul? Pras's attorney suggests that he take the stand himself. He's not legally obligated to do it, and the lawyer only suggests it one day before Pras would be called. It's a terrible idea, but Pras follows his advice, and without any real preparation, his testimony is a disaster. Putting salt in the wound, 50 Cent, my second husband, posts on social media that Pras is a snitch. Sarah, can you read what 50 wrote?
47:47 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, he said, "I knew this fool was a rat. I'm glad I never fuck with this guy." I mean, there are probably a lot of reasons why he didn't. It's like, oh, you knew? Like, no shit. He's with Joe.
48:02 Scaachi Koul? I think 50 knows everything.
48:03 Sarah Hagi? But I'm honestly just quite shocked at the poor choices he's making throughout this trial, generally. It's like, it's actually deeply shocking.
48:14 Scaachi Koul? Well, what's not that shocking is that after a month-long trial, Pras is convicted of conspiracy, concealment of material facts, making false entries in records, witness tampering, and serving as an unregistered agent of a foreign power. He's facing up to 20 years in prison. Pras appeals on the grounds that he had a horrible attorney, and he isn't wrong. The guy allegedly used AI to draft his closing statement, and he leaked confidential documents to Bloomberg. But the court denies Pras's request. After the trial, Pras awaits his official sentencing at home. He's become a pariah. No bank will work with him. And he still hasn't heard from Joe, who he did all of this to protect.
48:59 Scaachi Koul? Since Pras's conviction, his former bandmates Lauren Hill and Wyclef Jean have gone on a UK-Fujis reunion tour without him. Pras is suing them for fraud and breach of contract. On the last day of his first term, Trump pardoned Elliott for his role in the Joe scheme. At that point, Elliott was already disgraced. He had to resign from his position at the RNC after it was revealed that he paid a former Playboy model $1.6 million to be silent about their extramarital affair and the abortion he pressured her to have. Joe Lo is still at large and has yet to face any court of law. He's believed to be in China or Myanmar. Agent Robert Huchling has since retired from the FBI. He's now the managing director of W1 Global,
49:44 Scaachi Koul? a private DC-based company focused on uncovering financial crimes. As of this recording, Pras is still awaiting sentencing. He continues to insist he's innocent, and none of this was about the money. But he still wears Cartier and Tiffany bracelets in his pricey Manhattan apartment while he awaits his punishment. There are rumors that Trump will pardon him, too. And as for what happened to Guo, well, you'll just have to tune into next week's episode to find out.
50:14 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, this episode really broke me. Because it's just, if you pause for a second and pull back, you have to be like, oh, one of the Fugees was trying to do like a hostage negotiation?
50:29 Sarah Hagi? For what?
50:30 Scaachi Koul? For a photo with Barack Obama. Has this changed your perspective on the Fugees as a whole? Because like, Wyclef is also kind of scammy and Lauren obviously like has a history of not paying your taxes or showing up to the concerts that she claims to want to perform at.
50:48 Sarah Hagi? No.
50:49 Scaachi Koul? But I feel like this part was like, oh, there's a third guy and he also did scams.
50:54 Sarah Hagi? No, because I do think it's kind of needed with entertainers. I feel like we're losing truly messy stars. All of it was just so avoidable. But I think famous people are always getting into trouble. Sometimes you just don't know about it.
51:10 Scaachi Koul? What kind of punishment do you think is appropriate for Pras? I mean, we talk a lot about how we don't really believe in prisons, but he's like on the cusp of receiving some sort of punishment. I don't think comfortable Manhattan penthouse is what I was thinking, but like, what do you think it should be?
51:26 Sarah Hagi? I don't know what to do with people like him. I don't know. I'm just kind of like, I really don't think he's going to do it again.
51:34 Scaachi Koul? You know what? I think you're right. I will say, of all of our scammers, I do think Pras learned a lesson, which is that he just got in way over his head. Like, I do kind of buy that he didn't really know some of these rules.
51:47 Sarah Hagi? I really do think he was 100% serious, being like, I didn't do anything wrong.
51:53 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, which is unfortunate.
51:55 Sarah Hagi? I think his biggest crime was not being curious at all about what could happen to you getting involved in something like this. He's a real danger to himself, that's for sure.
52:07 Scaachi Koul? I'm curious if you learned any lessons? Because I feel like the lesson I learned is to like, know your strengths.
52:16 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
52:17 Scaachi Koul? Know your strengths when you're doing a scam.
52:20 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I also think there's something to be said about if someone has a lot of money and is getting close to you, something bad is probably happening to you. It's kind of like, it's okay to not be at the center of something. In fact, it's probably better.
52:35 Scaachi Koul? Let's go listen to the Fujis now.
52:37 Sarah Hagi? I mean, he's probably getting a lot of money off that.
52:40 Scaachi Koul? I hope he's getting residuals, yeah.
52:42 Sarah Hagi? Big time.
52:48 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
52:59 Scaachi Koul? This is Pras Michel, the Fuji felon.
53:02 Sarah Hagi? I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggy. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were The Fuji, The Fugitive, and the FBI by Leopold Campbell and Cormier for Businessweek. And Fuji's founder, Pras Michel, speaks out while facing 22 years in prison. I Never Wanted to be a Spy by Tatiana Segal for Variety.
53:30 Scaachi Koul? Rachel Borders wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggy. Olivia Bryley is our story editor. Fact checking by Kalina Newman. Sound design by John Lloyd. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Frieze on Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Pluse. Janine Cornolo and Stephanie Jens are development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enni and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie, and Erin O'Flaherty. For Wondery.
54:18 Speaker 10 There are books that change how you see the world, and there are books that change how you see yourself. In a new podcast series, A Great Book with Barack Obama, President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world. From Song of Solomon and The Fire Next Time, to All the Pretty Horses and Gilead. The president is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership, and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes
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