Pod Insights Scamfluencers Guo Wengui: The Temu Trump | 169 About this episode Guo Wengui was a billionaire real estate mogul in China, but when the government cracks down on his empire, he flees to the U. S. From a Manhattan apartment and a luxury superyacht, Guo publicly decries corruption in the CCP, which earns him devoted friends in the MAGA movement. But behind the scenes, Guo’s media company, crypto venture, fashion line, and fledgling rap career are all masking the fact that he’s ripping off his loyal followers for hundreds of millions. In the end, a disillusioned follower finds the bravery to hold Guo accountable and expose his global grift.
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Transcript 8,299 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Sarah Hagi? Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:14 Sarah Hagi? Sachi, now that we've been doing this show for so long, do you feel like we have an extended universe of scammers that kind of pop in and out of various stories?
0:23 Scaachi Koul? Yes, I do. I feel like it's like The Simpsons extended universe.
0:28 Sarah Hagi? Yes.
0:29 Scaachi Koul? Like the same general figures pop up. People are weirdly related to each other. A lot of the same voices.
0:36 Sarah Hagi? It's like the scammer cinematic universe. Like, there are just some people who are always in proximity to something insane. Eric Adams, our next mayor, don't forget.
0:46 Scaachi Koul? Oh, gosh.
0:47 Sarah Hagi? Well, today, I'm going to tell you about a scammer who's connected to two scammers we've covered, Jolo and Pras. And much like those two, the MAGA web connects them all.
1:01 Sarah Hagi? It's 2017, and Ya Li is sitting on her couch in Australia, watching a news program. Li is a petite, soft-spoken accountant who moved from China to Australia for university. She stayed, got married, and had a daughter. But she still has friends in China and wants to keep up with Chinese politics. Today, Li is watching an interview on Voice of America, an international broadcasting service funded by the US government. The guest is Guo Wengui, a Chinese billionaire real estate mogul. He fled the country in 2014 and is now blowing the whistle on corruption inside the Chinese Communist Party, or CCP. Li saw ads for the program while researching CCP
1:45 Sarah Hagi? corruption and was intrigued. She turns up the volume to hear Guo's explosive claims. Guo is in his mid-40s with buzzed hair, and he's dressed in traditional Chinese robes.
1:57 Speaker 02 Xia, uh,女士，东方先生，你们好。
2:00 Sarah Hagi? He looks serious and composed. Guo accuses top CCP officials of staggering corruption. He describes how the party spies on its own citizens. And most shockingly, he claims that ultra-wealthy elites, like himself, secretly fund China's national security operations. There have been rumors about this for years, but no one has ever dared to confirm it publicly until now. Li has always wanted China to be a democracy. And as she watches Guo, she thinks, "This guy might actually be able to make a difference." Then, an hour and 19 minutes into the live interview, the feed cuts out. Later, Li learns the CCP demanded the broadcast be shut down.
2:45 Sarah Hagi? The fact that the CCP is trying to silence Guo only makes Li want to hear more. If they're scared of what he's saying, then it must be true, right?
2:55 Scaachi Koul? This is very Streisand effect. You know, they're making him even bigger.
2:59 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, of course. Silencing someone is just like the worst thing you could do because it will justify anything they're saying.
3:07 Scaachi Koul? It's gonna backfire.
3:09 Sarah Hagi? Well, Li starts following Guo on Twitter and YouTube and watching the rambling monologues he posts every day. And she's inspired. She feels called to help Guo and fight alongside him for the truth. But what Li doesn't realize is the man she's putting her faith in isn't speaking out against a corrupt regime, he's building one of his own. A scheme that involves shadowy nonprofits, shady crypto deals, and puts him in league with Steve Bannon. And soon, Guo's crusade for the truth will turn into a multimillion-dollar scam with a MAGA megaphone behind it.
3:49 Speaker 03 In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. Listen to "Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe" wherever you get your podcasts.
4:09 Speaker 04 I'm Lauren Malloy, the host of the podcast My Mom's Murder. For 30 years, I thought my mom died of natural causes. That's what everyone told me. That's what I believed. Until one day, I got a phone call that changed everything. A woman claiming to be my mom's best friend told me my mother was murdered and that no one had ever investigated it. So I did what the detectives wouldn't: pulled the threads, knocked on doors, and confronted the contradictions. And what I found? It's worse than I imagined. Something happened to my mom. Someone killed her. And I won't stop until I find out who.
4:51 Speaker 04 The system may have given up on my mom, but I never will. Listen to My Mom's Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 10 episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
5:12 Sarah Hagi? From Wondery, I'm Sarah Haggie. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.
5:25 Sarah Hagi? Guo Wengui is full of contradictions. He's a billionaire, a whistleblower, a MAGA superfan, a crypto scammer, and an aspiring pop star. But his story isn't just a tale of greed and reinvention. It's also about how a man wanted by an entire government managed to build a scam empire from a Manhattan penthouse. One that fleeced his own supporters, laundered millions of dollars, and pulled in some of the most powerful voices on the American far right. This is Guo Wengui, the Temu Trump.
6:04 Sarah Hagi? Long before Guo was a dissident railing against the system, he was a real estate mogul taking full advantage of it. It's 2006, a decade before his Voice of America debut, and Guo is pacing back and forth in his sleek Beijing office. Sink marble floors and full floor-to-ceiling windows overlooking the city skyline. He's in his mid-30s and already firmly embedded in China's elite. We don't know much about how Guo got here. According to The New Yorker, he grew up poor and did a brief stint in prison as a young man, likely for fraud. But rather than being a setback, prison was a networking opportunity. Guo met someone who hooked him up with a real estate gig when he got out.
6:48 Sarah Hagi? And soon, he was rising in the developer ranks and collecting powerful friends.
6:54 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, you and I don't believe in prison.
6:56 Sarah Hagi? No, as we've said and as people do not like when we say.
7:00 Scaachi Koul? But part of why we don't believe in it is because it doesn't actually work. This is one of those examples of someone who was lightly doing crime before and then was incarcerated and then really learned how to do it.
7:13 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, put a bunch of people doing crime together and someone's gonna learn something, right?
7:19 Scaachi Koul? Listen, teachers teach.
7:21 Sarah Hagi? Well, today, Guo is examining blueprints for his latest project. It's a flashy skyscraper called Penggu Plaza that he wants done ASAP. But a stubborn vice mayor is denying his permit. So Guo picks up the phone and calls in a favor from one of his most formidable friends, Ma Jian. Ma just so happens to be a top official in China's Ministry of State Security, so he has dirt on everybody, including this vice mayor. Specifically, Ma has a sex tape of this guy with his mistress. Guo reportedly uses it to get the vice mayor thrown into prison. He's accused of corruption and of leading a, quote, "decadent lifestyle."
8:06 Sarah Hagi? And with the vice mayor gone, Guo is able to get his permit.
8:11 Scaachi Koul? Okay, being accused of leading a decadent lifestyle is so metal.
8:16 Sarah Hagi? Yes, I'm curious as to what counts as decadent, but that's a whole other can of worms.
8:22 Scaachi Koul? That's enough, that's a whole episode.
8:24 Sarah Hagi? Well, thanks to connections like Ma, Guo's empire just keeps expanding. He acquires a large stake in a brokerage firm and gets into the securities industry. He moves with his wife and their two children into a sprawling lakeside mansion in Beijing, estimated to be worth $230 million. He has an entire closet just for his hundreds of expensive, custom Brioni suits. By 2014, eight years after his dust-up with the vice mayor, Guo is worth an estimated $2.3 billion, making him one of the richest people in all of China. He is thriving in the system.
9:06 Sarah Hagi? And that's why what happens next stings so much. In late 2014, Guo calls out another rival for corruption. But this time, the fallout gets messy. The guy tries to flee arrest, reportedly still in his pajamas, and a Chinese journalist witnesses the whole scene. Soon, reporters are sniffing around Guo's operation, and they find a lot. Enough for Chinese authorities to start digging into his relationship with Ma Jian. The government tolerated Guo's ruthless ways as long as he was useful to them. But as soon as his business feuds spilled into public view, he became a liability. In January 2015, Guo gets a phone call.
9:51 Sarah Hagi? It's Ma's senior aide who frantically informs Guo that authorities are at Ma's office arresting him right now. Guo knows this means he's next, so he books it out of Beijing and flies to Hong Kong, London, and finally to New York. He leaves everything behind, including his family.
10:14 Scaachi Koul? I love how men will abandon their families and that they can. I love that that's an option for them. And it's always understood. It's like, yeah, of course he had to. He left them to protect them, right?
10:27 Sarah Hagi? Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got it. I saw Taken. Well, from afar, Guo watches his life in China unravel. Many of his assets are seized or frozen. His relatives and employees are detained for questioning about him. And the CCP, which normally censors the news, allows Chinese newspapers to report on how Guo and Ma blackmailed their rivals and spied on their enemies. Guo publicly denies everything, even though it's true. The same system that made him rich is now bent on destroying him. But from the safety of Manhattan, Guo makes a decision. If the CCP wants to cast him as their villain, then he'll become a worthy nemesis.
11:11 Sarah Hagi? He's going to rebrand himself and go from disgraced insider to fearless whistleblower.
11:19 Sarah Hagi? It's January 2017, about two years since Guo fled China. He could have operated in the shadows while in exile, but he's not willing to be quietly rich. Instead, Guo has gotten himself a $68 million penthouse in New York, a $37 million yacht, and the ultimate symbol of proximity to power: a membership at Mar-a-Lago. Trump has just been inaugurated, and Washington is buzzing with anti-China rhetoric. Guo sees an opportunity to cozy up to a new government that can protect him against his old one, and he decides to do something unprecedented. He's going to speak out against China's oppressive regime,
12:02 Sarah Hagi? and he knows just how to do it: by starting a YouTube channel.
12:07 Scaachi Koul? I mean, I guess I've heard worse ideas, but I'm...
12:12 Sarah Hagi? Yeah.
12:12 Scaachi Koul? I'm a little worried about where this is gonna go.
12:14 Sarah Hagi? It's him being like, "What's up, guys? Welcome back to my channel. Today, we're gonna talk about the definition of fascism."
12:24 Sarah Hagi? Well, Guo's earliest videos are no longer on YouTube, but from later reporting, we know that Guo pitches himself in the videos as an insider-turned-whistleblower, someone who's seen the rot inside the CCP firsthand and is ready to expose it. He basically offers himself up on a silver platter as an ally to people like Trump, who want to take China down a peg. He tells his followers that he's, quote, "from the grassroots, born as a farmer and not afraid of death." In the process, Guo gets to rewrite his own origin story, and two competing narratives emerge. According to Guo, he's always been a heroic dissident. He says his time in prison as a young man
13:07 Sarah Hagi? was for supporting the Tiananmen Square protests. He claims the police shot and killed his brother during his arrest, and that he's been plotting to take down the CCP ever since. But according to the Chinese government, Guo was imprisoned for his involvement in an oil scam. We have no way of knowing the truth. Both sides have incentives to lie. And the very nature of the CCP's censorship casts doubt over any records they share, which makes it very easy for Guo to play the victim. For his fans online, Guo's new narrative makes him a hero. He quickly gains hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter and YouTube, including Western journalists and even some people in Washington.
13:52 Sarah Hagi? By April 2017, Guo's efforts to build up his profile culminate in his Voice of America interview, the one Yali watched. It's a big moment. Guo accuses China's anti-corruption czar of actually being corrupt himself. And even though the feed gets cut, the damage has been done. Guo has poked the bear. But now, the bear is about to come for him, all the way from Beijing and right into his Manhattan penthouse.
14:25 Sarah Hagi? The CCP strikes back the very same day the Voice of America interview airs. At China's request, Interpol issues a red notice calling for Guo's detention pending extradition on charges including corruption, bribery, fraud, money laundering, and even kidnapping and rape. They release a taped confession from Guo's old spy master friend Ma, who says he took nearly $9 million in bribes to move Guo's projects along. And Chinese media starts reporting about potential scams Guo ran back in Beijing, like getting a fraudulent $466 million loan from a state-owned bank
15:06 Sarah Hagi? and illegally transferring nearly $300 million of client funds out of his securities firm. And then, as if the message wasn't clear enough, four Chinese officials show up at Guo's New York penthouse. They make Guo an offer. Come home quietly, and in return, the government will leave his family alone and unfreeze his assets. They've even brought Guo a present of sorts: his wife and daughter.
15:33 Scaachi Koul? Oh, that sounds ominous, and like they have been kidnapped, perhaps.
15:38 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, exactly. While Guo is thankful to have some of his family back, he knows it's actually more of a threat than a peace offering. He refuses to cave to their demands. And in September 2017, he files for political asylum. He's cutting ties with China for good, and he's ready to ally himself with people who hate the Chinese government as much as he does: the Trump White House.
16:07 Sarah Hagi? A month later, Steve Bannon—yes, that Steve Bannon— sits down for lunch with Guo in a hotel suite in Washington, DC. Think paisley headboards, crisp white linens, and soft cream walls. Basically, the opposite of Steve's vibe. Even in this fancy setting, Steve shows up looking like he just crawled out of a basement lined with conspiracy theory cork boards. Which, honestly, probably isn't that far off. Steve is in a bit of a sticky situation at the moment. He was recently fired from his job at the White House for contradicting the president. Plus, the mega-rich family bankrolling his podcast and other media projects are cutting off his funding.
16:51 Sarah Hagi? Steve needs cash. But that's not the only reason why he wants to meet Guo. When Steve was still in the White House, a number of big names tried to get Guo deported, including scamfluencer stars Joe Lo and Pras Michel. But Steve knew Guo could be a valuable asset against the CCP. For years, Steve has been obsessed with the idea of taking down China. And he's practically salivating at the prospect of working with Guo, a real Chinese insider willing to give him all the gossip. He's even got a tagline ready to market Guo to his audience: "The Donald Trump of Beijing."
17:32 Scaachi Koul? Well, that makes me sick. And what I love about the story is how I hate everybody.
17:37 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, you can freely hate everyone mentioned thus far.
17:40 Scaachi Koul? No one to root for.
17:42 Sarah Hagi? Well, Steve was already inclined to like Guo. But during this lunch, he kind of falls in love. The two men talk for six hours about everything from China's debt crisis to its military capabilities to the CCP's corruption. They're both bombastic, conspiracy-minded, and they love painting themselves as underdogs locked in an existential battle against dark forces. Using Steve's influence on the American right and Guo's insider gossip and cash, they vow to bring about the demise of the CCP together.
18:20 Scaachi Koul? This is two dumb bitches nodding to each other and saying, "Exactly."
18:24 Sarah Hagi? Yes, absolutely. And it's also just like, you guys are on a date. They're dating.
18:31 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, there's no one gayer than two straight men in politics.
18:34 Sarah Hagi? Exactly. Well, after that lunch, Guo and Steve are basically best friends. They start popping up on each other's podcasts and online videos, ranting about the CCP and weaving wilder and wilder conspiracy theories. They hang out in Guo's penthouse, they party on his yacht. And the following year, they create the Rule of Law Society, a nonprofit with the mission of gathering evidence against Chinese officials. It's unclear who suggested the idea for the nonprofit first or if the idea was a shared fever dream. But Guo pledges to put $100 million of his own money into the effort. He also promises to match small donors' contributions two to one.
19:18 Sarah Hagi? Steve becomes chairman with a $1 million consulting fee, courtesy of Guo. Of course, Steve gets his payday, but Guo's donation pledge, it never seems to come through. Instead, Guo seems to use the fund mainly as a way to amass followers, ones who might want to invest in future money-making opportunities with him. Steve thinks he's found the perfect partner, a fellow outsider who's ready to tear down the system and isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. And he's right, because like Steve, Guo has built an audience of people who trust and believe in him. And even if they can't take down the CCP, they've got the next best thing,
20:02 Sarah Hagi? an army of perfect suckers clamoring to line both of their pockets.
20:13 Speaker 05 Hi, I'm Kenya Paris.
20:15 Speaker 06 And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.
20:21 Speaker 05 We'll sit down with extraordinary guests from the worlds of art, film, literature, comedy, and wellness to hear from their unexpected stories of success.
20:28 Speaker 06 And who do we have this season? Well, we'll talk with Grammy-winning artist Anderson Paak, athlete Rich Roll, portrait artist Amy Sherald, Oscar-winning director Ron Howard, legendary writer David Sedaris, and many more. These conversations are more intimate than last season, wouldn't you say?
20:45 Speaker 05 I would. Listen to season one of The Unusual Suspects wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for a free trial Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing to Apple Podcasts.
21:01 Speaker 07 Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived thereafter him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence,
21:44 Speaker 07 and the things that come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
22:08 Sarah Hagi? It's 2018 and Ting Biao is at home in New Jersey when he gets served with a defamation lawsuit. Ting is in his 40s with thin rectangular glasses and a resting, serious face. He's a Chinese dissident who fled his home country in 2014 and is now a visiting scholar at NYU. But he isn't being sued by anyone in the CCP. He's being sued by Guo. Ting knows why Guo is coming after him. Guo has built a sizable following with Chinese expats, but Ting isn't one of them. In fact, the year before, he published a bombshell report about the real Guo. He dug into Guo's past in Beijing, detailing the schemes and shady dealings
22:51 Sarah Hagi? that made him rich in the first place. Then, he went after Guo's so-called whistleblowing, arguing that his allegations of CCP corruption were, at best, exaggerations, and at worst, total fabrications. Ting pointed out Guo's pattern of narcissism, sensationalism, and authoritarianism. And he didn't shy away from mentioning the serious rape accusations Guo's faced, which Guo has consistently dismissed and denied. We should note that Ting himself has publicly apologized for an alleged attempted assault that took place before his report was published. Ting also hit at the heart of Guo's whole persona,
23:34 Sarah Hagi? questioning if Guo was even a real dissident. Ting pointed out that while Guo loved ranting about corrupt officials, he was conspicuously soft on Chinese President Xi Jinping, the literal head of the CCP. Guo often praised Xi and once wrote a fawning letter to party leaders after they visited him in New York, offering to use his, quote, "influence and resources to support Xi's agenda." Ting came to the conclusion that Guo was nothing but a liar out for his own gain. Can you read what Ting later told the New York Times about Guo? He said, quote, "After watching him for 20 minutes, I realized this guy is just a swindler.
24:18 Sarah Hagi? He's not somebody who wants to fight for democracy or freedom in China. He just wants to use his influence and his impact to cheat people for money."
24:26 Scaachi Koul? This is like a scamfluencer's manifesto. This is the thesis statement of the scamfluencer.
24:31 Sarah Hagi? Yes, that is exactly it. He's saying, "This guy's a scammer and he just wants money from people," which, sure. Guo's defamation case against Ting gets dismissed pretty quickly. The whole saga leaves Ting even more committed to speaking out against Guo. But as Guo's scam empire expands, it's going to take more than one critic to bring him down.
24:56 Sarah Hagi? It's June 2020, three years after Guo and Steve first met. Today, they're on the deck of Guo's yacht, standing in front of the Statue of Liberty. They're flanked by blue flags they've designed themselves. It's an appropriately theatrical backdrop for the big announcement they're about to make on a livestream. A self-proclaimed "new Chinese government." It's called "The New Federal State of China," and Guo and Steve claim it's destined to overthrow the CCP. Here is a screenshot, Sachi.
25:31 Scaachi Koul? All right, well, it's these two idiots on a boat. Guo is in a suit, and Steve Bannon looks like he's going to a fishing conference. And they are standing in front of the Statue of Liberty. This is stupid, and I hate it.
25:46 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, didn't she say, "Bring me your hungry or tired all that?"
25:49 Scaachi Koul? She doesn't want this. She wants to be left alone.
25:51 Sarah Hagi? She does not want this. They are not hungry. They are not tired.
25:54 Scaachi Koul? They are not huddled masses. They're on a yacht.
25:58 Sarah Hagi? While Guo chants "Take down the CCP" in Mandarin, while Steve looks slightly stiff and awkward, seemingly not understanding what Guo's saying. Eventually, Guo switches over to English. Then Steve joins in a beat late. At the end of their grand declaration, Guo actually signs their founding document in his own blood. Steve, apparently not quite as much of a diehard, politely declines that part. All of this spectacle fires up the people watching at home. But it's just the tip of the iceberg because behind the scenes, Guo and Steve have been laying the groundwork for something much bigger and shadier.
26:40 Sarah Hagi? Just two months earlier, they launched another venture, a video streaming news company called GTV. Guo says that GTV can use cutting-edge Israeli technology to bypass China's censors and give Chinese citizens access to outside information. GTV quickly becomes a platform for Steve's War Room podcast, and of course, Guo becomes a frequent guest. But GTV isn't just a media project. It's also a massive investment scheme. Guo targets Chinese expats and dissidents worldwide who want democracy in China. And supposedly as a way to raise funds for this movement,
27:22 Sarah Hagi? he sells them unregistered stock offerings in the company, which is completely illegal. But don't worry, he explicitly promises investors, quote, "I will not let you lose any money," which is also illegal. And this isn't the only outlandish promise he makes. He also claims that if his fans donate to his movement, they will definitely be approved for asylum in the US.
27:51 Scaachi Koul? So all of this stock offering stuff is super illegal. The promises are illegal. But promising that in exchange for money, you will get asylum approval is bullshit and also fundamentally at odds with how immigration is supposed to work here.
28:11 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I mean, it's a fantasy that's too good to resist. More than 5,500 people invest in shares of GTV, raising over $450 million for the company. To be clear, that's roughly $82,000 worth of stock per person that Guo's fleecing.
28:32 Sarah Hagi? People aren't just thinking this is a fun investment. They're pouring in their life savings. But Guo doesn't invest this money into GTV as promised. Just days after closing the stock offering, he takes $100 million of it and invests in a high-risk hedge fund instead. Guo may have lost his place in Beijing, but in exile, he's building a new kind of empire. It's a pyramid scheme disguised as a movement, and it's funded entirely by the dreams and the life savings of the very people he's claiming he will save.
29:12 Sarah Hagi? It's August 2020, just a couple of months after the big announcement. Guo and Steve are off doing their own things. Guo is probably in his Manhattan penthouse, while Steve's actually using Guo's yacht for a little R and R. But then, Guo hears the news.
29:29 Speaker 08 Steve Bannon was arrested off the coast of Connecticut on this $28 million luxury yacht owned by an exiled Chinese billionaire.
29:38 Sarah Hagi? That was ABC News's David Muir breaking the story that the Manhattan DA is charging Steve with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors in his 2019 campaign to build a wall along the US-Mexico border. You might think that watching his bestie get arrested would scare Guo straight. But if anything, it does the opposite. In the days that follow, Guo doubles down. He posts a triumphant video on social media claiming that GTV has a $2 billion market value. The Department of Justice later claims that Guo is lying and that the company has no real revenue. Around the same time,
30:19 Sarah Hagi? Guo decides to get into a new scam-prone industry: crypto. Guo creates his own cryptocurrency exchange. He claims it's all backed by 20% gold, although he never proves this. And since Guo's cryptocurrency can only be used on his exchange, if it ever folds, the coins will be utterly worthless. Guo reportedly rakes in at least $500 million through his cryptocurrency venture.
30:50 Scaachi Koul? This is the most depressing episode of Scamfluencers Bingo because it's really hitting every square. And it is so predictable and so upsetting.
31:00 Sarah Hagi? It's so crazy how easy it has been to scam using crypto. It's like it'll never compute how simple it kind of is.
31:08 Scaachi Koul? No one is learning their lesson.
31:10 Sarah Hagi? With all this cash pouring in, Guo does some interesting things. First, he starts releasing music. He's got songs like "Dear Mama," "I'm Ending the CCP," "H-Coin to the Moon," and "Take Down the CCP," which briefly hits the number one spot on the iTunes charts in September of 2020. He also releases music videos. And we have to actually watch this one for his song called "The Hero."
31:45 Scaachi Koul? Okay, well, the song is very bad.
31:49 Sarah Hagi? Oh, it's terrible.
31:50 Scaachi Koul? It defies explanation. The video, okay, so he is wearing like full Hype East apparel. There's a lot of leather vests, black t-shirts happening, weird sunglasses. And he is rapping poorly in front of a big plane, a big private jet, and then a bunch of sort of anonymous smoky rooms. Oh, he's holding what appears to be a flaming lightsaber at some point. This is what happens when little boys have money.
32:19 Sarah Hagi? It is, and you know what? I'm always blown away by how people can have everything and yet they'll still want to be a part of the arts for some reason. Well, Guo doesn't stop there, by the way. He launches an apparel line called G-Fashion, where you can buy a more than $2,000 button-down shirt emblazoned with the word "ivermectin" across the front. And yes, that is a veterinary anti-parasite drug that conspiracy theorists claimed could cure COVID. He also rolls out a high-end membership program called G-Club. There's an initiation fee plus yearly membership fees costing up to $50,000. In exchange, you get what Guo's website describes as a,
33:03 Sarah Hagi? quote, "exclusive high-end membership program offering a full spectrum of services and a gateway to carefully curated world-class products, services, and experiences."
33:17 Sarah Hagi? Guo claims publicly that he's got 25,000 members, plus millions more who want to join. In reality, he has less than 6,000 active members. And of course, none of those membership benefits seem to be real. And yet, over the next two and a half years, Guo rakes in $250 million in G-Club initiation and membership fees. So just to tally that all up, Guo's got more than $400 million worth of investments in GTV. Then, another $500 million from his crypto scheme, plus the nearly $250 million he'll eventually bring in from G-Club.
34:02 Sarah Hagi? We are well over a billion dollars in fraud, and Guo is nowhere near done.
34:11 Scaachi Koul? What is the point of that much money? Like, at a certain point, you have to just be losing track of the level of fraud you're committing, and now it's just about, like, being a dick.
34:21 Sarah Hagi? Well, you know what, Sachi? Just like his buddy Steve Bannon, Guo takes his followers' well-intentioned donations and, of course, starts spending it on himself. According to court documents, here are just a few of his purchases during this time. Nearly $1 million worth of rugs, a $4 million custom Bugatti that's a car, and a $3.5 million Ferrari, which is also a car.
34:48 Scaachi Koul? Right, thank you.
34:49 Sarah Hagi? Two mattresses worth $36,000 each, a $140,000 piano, a 50,000-square-foot mansion in New Jersey. And here's a picture just in case you're having a hard time imagining what 50,000 square feet looks like.
35:07 Scaachi Koul? Okay, so 50,000 square feet is a castle on acres and acres and acres of land with a swimming pool and like a fountain. It's an enormity of property. Nobody needs this much space. This is like the, this is the X-Men castle.
35:24 Sarah Hagi? I was actually gonna say, it kind of looks like on TV when there's an exclusive boarding school or something.
35:30 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it's very Hogwarts.
35:32 Sarah Hagi? Yep. Well, Guo puts some of these purchases under the names of a few family members in an effort to minimize any legal blowback for him. He even has a so-called "war chest", $150 million he can put toward any legal battles. And Guo isn't just using his followers for their money, he also orders them to shut down and harass anyone who questions him. In December 2020, Guo's followers picket the house of Ting Biao, the academic who published that scathing article about Guo's past in China. They spend two months at Ting's house, protesting every day. Ting and his family aren't harmed, but some of the dissidents
36:15 Sarah Hagi? Guo targets are physically assaulted, with Guo's followers kicking and beating them up. But Guo might be preparing for battle with the wrong enemies. Because while he's fixated on government agents and political attacks, the real threat is much closer to home. Most of his followers still can't see the cracks in the foundation, but Guo is about to test their faith and their loyalty.
36:44 Sarah Hagi? It's late 2021, and while Guo is rolling in Bugattis, Ya Li is in Australia, staring at a legal document she doesn't want to sign. Li has been a fan of Guo since his Voice of America interview. After he and Steve Bannon launched The Rule of Law Society, she volunteered her skills as an accountant and translator. She's risen through the ranks to become a director and has been in contact with Guo on WhatsApp groups. Sure, they've never met, but they talk like family. He calls her Sister Mulan, and she calls him Brother Seven. As far as Lee's concerned, Guo's flashy businesses are necessary to fund the fight against the CCP.
37:29 Sarah Hagi? She's actually helped him run a loan program to sell more shares of GTV after the first round sold out. The idea was that more supporters could continue to "invest" by sending money to one of Guo's local, quote, "farms," online hubs run by trusted volunteers like Lee. The farm signs a loan agreement with the supporter, then sends the money to Guo's company. In return, the supporter is promised GTV shares. The Justice Department later claims that Guo raised about $150 million through his farm program. Lee is convinced that she's doing the right thing by helping Guo, but the document in front of her is making her uneasy.
38:15 Sarah Hagi? It's a promissory note that says she sent money to a company she's never even heard of. She doesn't want to lie, but one of Guo's lawyers really wants her to sign it. So she tries justifying the lie to herself. Maybe she forgot or made a mistake. If Guo says that's where the money went, then she should trust him. So she signs the note and tells herself it's for the cause. Besides, Guo would never steer her wrong, right?
38:45 Scaachi Koul? Oh, I have a feeling Guo would steer her super-duper wrong, maybe a billion dollars wrong even.
38:53 Sarah Hagi? Yeah. At this point, Lee is just in too deep. She doesn't consider the possibility that Guo might be doing something sketchy. But soon enough, she'll realize that Guo criticizing the CCP for corruption is just the pot calling the kettle black. And when she does, she'll turn from one of Guo's most devoted followers into one of his most dangerous adversaries.
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41:03 Sarah Hagi? In September of 2021, Guo's media company, GTV, finally gets hit with official charges from the SEC. The investors in GTV realized they'd never seen any return on their investments or any of the other promised benefits. And when they tried to get their money back, they couldn't. So they made some calls to the authorities. The SEC accuses Guo of illegally selling unregistered cryptocurrency and stock in GTV. Guo's companies agreed to pay $535 million to settle the whole thing, but don't admit to or deny the allegations.
41:43 Sarah Hagi? GTV's news site tries to downplay the charges afterward. But no matter how Guo tries to play it, it's a major blow. And it's only the beginning because ghosts from his past start reappearing. Back in Beijing, Guo took out massive loans to build his real estate empire. Loans he never repaid. Now they're coming due at the worst possible time. A New York court orders Guo to pay back $116 million in debt and interest for a long defaulted loan. The judge bars Guo from selling or relocating any of his property until the matter's settled.
42:24 Sarah Hagi? But Guo ignores this order and moves his yacht into international waters. The judge fines him $500,000 per day until he returns the yacht, which he doesn't do. So within a few months, he racks up $134 million in fines, nearly $20 million more than he initially owed.
42:49 Scaachi Koul? I mean, that's a lot of money, but he already owes so much money and he stole so much money. That's like, what's a $20 million fine?
42:56 Sarah Hagi? It's true. It's numbers on a screen.
42:58 Scaachi Koul? Yeah.
42:58 Sarah Hagi? It's not real to him. And also, like, I do like when people take advantage of maritime law.
43:06 Scaachi Koul? International waters, you can do whatever you want.
43:08 Sarah Hagi? It seems so obvious. That's how it works. If you make it out there, you can have anything. That's just pirate law. Well, Guo claims he doesn't have the money to pay off his debts. He might have been a billionaire once, but now he has very few assets in his own name. His companies and family are the ones who own it all. So he files for bankruptcy. In the filing, he places his personal net worth between $50,000 and $100,000. And of course, he blames the whole thing on the CCP. Not long after, in March of 2022, Guo has no choice but to shut down GTV. Sachi, can you read his dramatic social media post?
43:54 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, he wrote, "Dear comrades in arms, GTV has been completely shut down at 12:00 in the morning yesterday due to the massive tampering of data by the Communist Party hackers."
44:07 Scaachi Koul? This feels like a similar strategy to like earlier in the episode where he was saying that he was basically being censored and that he couldn't speak freely. But it also seems like this strategy is not going to work again here. He's gone to that well too many times.
44:20 Sarah Hagi? No, of course not. But also, like, what else does he have, right? Even though the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly, they do eventually catch up to Guo. In March of 2023, a year after he files for bankruptcy, US authorities show up at his Manhattan penthouse with a warrant for his arrest. He's charged with defrauding more than 5,000 investors out of more than $1 billion, along with wire fraud, securities fraud, bank fraud, and money laundering. Guo pleads not guilty, but if a jury disagrees, he's staring down decades behind bars. And after years of playing his enemies against one another,
45:05 Sarah Hagi? Guo is about to face some betrayal of his own.
45:10 Sarah Hagi? Not long after Guo's arrest, Yali has one of his lawyers in front of her, once again demanding that she sign a piece of paper. This time, it's an affidavit that says she authorized a transfer of funds from one of Guo's companies in the British Virgin Islands. But she didn't. And an affidavit feels different than anything she's been asked to sign before. Li doesn't want to lie to a court and potentially get sent to prison herself. The lawyer straight up threatens her. He says if she doesn't sign the affidavit, she'll have to personally pay Guo back for every dollar in the company account if it's seized by authorities, all $38 million. It's also heavily implied
45:54 Sarah Hagi? that if she doesn't do this, she's no longer welcome in the movement. This ultimatum finally makes Lee see through Guo's allure and realize the whole thing's a scam. She shouldn't have to commit fraud to keep fighting the anti-communism fight. She's so angry and ashamed she fell for Guo's lies. She worries that Guo's other followers might hurt her in some way, but she refuses to back down. So she calls the US authorities and tells them everything she knows. A year later, in June 2024, Lee travels to New York to take the witness stand during Guo's trial. She stares down the man she once believed was a hero.
46:39 Sarah Hagi? Good for her. Finally, someone to root for. Yeah, I mean, took her long enough, but sure. Listen, you gotta take what you can get in some of these episodes. Well, she is extremely nervous. Not because she might go to jail. She signed a non-prosecution agreement so she wouldn't be charged for any crimes she committed while working for Guo. But the courtroom is packed with Guo's devoted supporters, people who once called her Sister Mulan, but who now see her as a traitor. And now they know her real name and her real face. She has no idea what they might do to her if she's the reason Guo goes down. But Lee knows she has to tell the truth, for herself and for her family.
47:24 Sarah Hagi? So she walks the court through everything she knows, and it is a lot. She had so much access and oversight of Guo's funds and financial moves that she's central to the prosecutor's case. Using Lee's information, the prosecution lays it bare. Guo treated his followers' money like a personal piggy bank. Multiple fraud schemes all funded his life of yachts, penthouses, and club memberships. They say he used Steve Bannon to boost his own notoriety and fame, knowing full well that they were peddling lies. But Guo's lawyer paints a very different picture. He says Guo is a political dissident who was under constant threat. He had to
48:07 Sarah Hagi? hide his money so the CCP couldn't steal it and leave him destitute. The argument seems to be that he had all his followers' money in a safe place, just not the place they thought their cash would be.
48:24 Scaachi Koul? I don't think that's a great legal argument. I don't know that I would buy that. That doesn't make any sense.
48:30 Sarah Hagi? It makes no sense.
48:32 Scaachi Koul? I definitely took your money, but I put it somewhere safe as like a species at best.
48:37 Sarah Hagi? It's crazy. And you know what? The jury doesn't buy it either. They find Guo guilty on nine of the 12 charges against him. Guo takes the decision in stride. He gives a soft smile to his supporters in the room, some of whom get emotional and start crying. Then he hugs his lawyers and shakes their hands. Guo is currently at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, awaiting sentencing in September 2025. As for Steve Bannon, he's never been charged in connection to this case. Trump pardoned him back in 2021, before his own fraud trial could begin, the one about soliciting funds for building the border wall. But that didn't save Steve entirely.
49:22 Sarah Hagi? Just before Guo's conviction, Steve reported to a federal prison to serve a four-month sentence for defying a congressional subpoena. He was released last October. In March, the Trump administration cut off funding for Voice of America, the very outlet where Lee first saw Guo and believed he might be the real deal. In the end, Guo wasn't taken down by the Chinese government. He was taken down by his own believers. While Guo awaits sentencing, don't be surprised if any of these players pop back up in the chaos. U.S.-China relations are like a geopolitical reality show where no one knows what's coming next, least of all the people actually running the show.
50:11 Sarah Hagi? Sachi, I think the question I have here is, scam aside, do you think that Guo was actually a dissident?
50:20 Scaachi Koul? It's tricky because everybody in this story is kind of using each other for this like political proxy war. But I have real doubts that anybody who's on Steve Bannon
50:33 Sarah Hagi? Inside is like a freedom fighter. Like it just doesn't compute.
50:38 Scaachi Koul? This person is too rich and too evil for me to be like, yeah, yeah, this is a dissident. And generally, when you think of an activist or a dissident or someone going against the government, they're not fleecing people out of billions of dollars.
50:50 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, how he was able to rack in millions from people, like hundreds of millions of dollars that accumulated to over a billion dollars from regular people is insane. And it also like really brought me back to this time where Steve Bannon was everywhere. Like you couldn't ever escape his disgusting face. And that nothing ever really happened to him.
51:13 Scaachi Koul? I mean, didn't he go to jail and then get out?
51:14 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, but like, that's nothing compared to.
51:16 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, no, I agree. Listen, these stories are riddled with people who do not face any consequences to their actions. And like, how odd that the trifecta is Jolo, Pras, Michelle, and then Guo. Like, what a weird triad. And what a strange group of people to be connected across borders and governments and political anxiety and xenophobia and Donald Trump.
51:45 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's almost like, I know we always talk about how easy it is to get money from people, but he must have been so persuasive that he was able to live this extremely lavish life that he flaunted, he was not hiding. And these people still were like, well, but he is a victim. He's a victim and he's also like our Malcolm X or something. Like, I'm just like so shocked by it all that it worked so well.
52:08 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, it is really a testament to how easy it was. He really just asked people for money and they gave it to him.
52:14 Sarah Hagi? Another thing that I find fascinating is how willing people can be to sign documents.
52:21 Scaachi Koul? Yeah, people don't read their contracts. They just assume that no one is out to fleece them. And I have some news from you as one of the hosts of a podcast about people who fleece other people, there are a lot of people who want to fleece you.
52:35 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, it's hard to not be super paranoid anytime you get asked to sign something. But also, they're so long, these documents are so long.
52:44 Scaachi Koul? Sarah, read the contracts.
52:47 Scaachi Koul? What do you think the lesson here is for you?
52:50 Sarah Hagi? Oh, I don't think there's a lesson in here for me.
52:54 Scaachi Koul? No, I don't think so either. I don't think there's really a lesson for us.
52:58 Sarah Hagi? Yeah, I don't think you and I needed to learn anything here today.
53:01 Scaachi Koul? I think it's just kind of like, if you make $500 million on a crypto scam, pay for a better music video.
53:09 Sarah Hagi? "Money Can't Buy You Class," Sarah. I don't know if you've heard that song.
53:12 Scaachi Koul? I think that is a lesson. That is a lesson. Money can't buy you class, and I feel like elegance is learned, you know?
53:19 Sarah Hagi? Sure is, my friend. Money can't buy you class.
53:27 Scaachi Koul? Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.
53:36 Sarah Hagi? This is Guo Wengue, the Temu Trump. I'm Sarah Hagee.
53:41 Scaachi Koul? And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected] . We used many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were, "How a Tycoon Linked to Chinese Intelligence Became a Darling of Trump Republiks" by Evan Osnos for The New Yorker. "The Undoing of Guo Wengue: Billionaire Accused of Fraud on Two Continents" by Michael Forsyth and Benjamin Weiser for The New York Times. And "She Was a Top Supporter of a Right-Wing Mogul: Now She's a Star Witness Against Him" by Dan Friedman for Mother Jones.
54:12 Sarah Hagi? Alex Burns wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagee. Eric Thurman is our story editor. Fact checking by Meredith Clark. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Frieson Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Flus. Janine Cornolo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enney and Janie Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
55:01 Speaker 03 A trucker merges onto the I-10 in New Orleans. He checks his mirrors. The lane is clear. And then, boom. Impact. A pickup truck, seemingly out of nowhere, scrapes down the side of his 18-wheeler. Multiple passengers inside. One man flees the scene. And the driver of the pickup? He doesn't seem all that upset. It didn't feel like a regular accident, because it wasn't. Across the city, truckers are getting sideswiped. All on the same stretch of the same freeway. And behind many of the cases, is one person. A Hollywood stunt woman turned personal injury lawyer, named Vanessa Moda. This podcast is a story about fake accidents that lead to real consequences. And a scheme that ends in betrayal and murder.
55:46 Speaker 03 Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
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