Joanne McNally: “I’m problematically independent” Being an introverted extrovert

Sometimes you have to just power through the self-loathing. Doing stand up comedy has helped Joanne McNally build resilience, take responsibility, and not take things so personally. In this chat, Fearne and Joanne share experiences of being hyper-independent; but can trusting and relying on yourself go too far? They chat about learning to delegate and ask for help too. Joanne was adopted as a baby, and she opens up about the process of piecing her identity together when she met her birth parents. Are you able to find the funny in distressing periods of your life? Joanne points out that in taking the piss out of yourself you ultimately have to take accountability for your own part in a difficult situation. Plus, Fearne and Joanne make some big admissions about their own pelvic floor health... If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Spencer Matthews https://pod.fo/e/16dcf3 Dawn French https://pod.fo/e/23125c Matt Lucas https://pod.fo/e/207f30 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To market, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that eradicates shame through pure, unfiltered chat. Today, I'm really happy about this, I'm chatting to Joanne McNally.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  I've met other adoptive people who felt like they were abandoned. My parents did such a good job of making sure I never cared about being adopted, that I think they kind of went a bit overboard and I thought I was special, which was worse, actually. I guess because I had that little show pony side to me and that wasn't in the family I was adopted into, that I thought that I would find it in the birth family. So when that didn't happen, you are kind of left in a bit of a limbo land then, you have to be like, "Oh, I'm just my own person, oh god."

• 1:09Fearne Cotton?

  How are you, lovely lot? Are you doing last minute Christmas shopping? God, I'd never leave it this late. I'm not shaming you, but I couldn't deal with the stress. I would combust. Are you wrapping? I am still wrapping. It doesn't end, ever. It never ends. I think I'm getting somewhere and there's more and more. I'm also slightly stressing still that I haven't bought all the ingredients for a stupidly intricate trifle that I'm planning to make. Trifle seems to go down well with everyone. It's got a bit of everything in there. I'll make a booze-free one so the kids can get stuck in. How many layers is appropriate? I think I'm doing like six this year. It's too much, it's OTT. I'm getting all flustered just thinking about it. But that is Christmas, isn't it?

• 1:52Fearne Cotton?

  Joy and stress in equal measures, a delight. But look, whatever you're doing, I hope you're all right. I hope you've got the twinkly lights up and you're feeling okay. And if you're not, that's also all right. We're here with you. We don't really talk about Christmas in this episode at all, so if you hate it, bingo. I really thought that Joanne would be the perfect guest to hear from today because she's quite frankly, one of the most fun people I know. She is a record-breaking queen of comedy and of course, she's the co-host of award-winning podcast, My Therapist Ghosted Me. I don't even know where to start with this one. We talk about being independent and not liking asking for help. We talk about humour, getting us through difficult situations.

• 2:33Fearne Cotton?

  We talk about being adopted as a baby and we talk a lot about pelvic floors. I mean, I didn't plan that in my notes. It wasn't something I researched, but quite frankly, it was my favourite part of the chat and has changed the course of my life. You will hear more about that later.

• 3:24Speaker 03

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• 3:59Speaker 04

  Hey, it's Hannah Burner from Giggly Squad and the holidays are around the corner, which means I'm officially entering my hostess Hannah era with Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. You guys know I love cats and fostering, but when I'm hosting, I do not want my house smelling like cats. I want people focusing on my hosting skills. That's why I love Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. It delivers long-lasting odour control and forms compact clumps that make cleanup easy. So that's one less thing I need to worry about when people come over. Be guest-ready with Arm & Hammer Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.

• 4:33Fearne Cotton?

  All right, here we go. This is the show.

• 4:57Fearne Cotton?

  I always get myself a really nice.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  It's really nice, yeah.

• 5:01Fearne Cotton?

  We've officially started the podcast.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 5:03Fearne Cotton?

  So we're just gonna keep on talking shit.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, great.

• 5:05Fearne Cotton?

  For however long we talk for.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Well, we've done a good half an hour off.

• 5:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but that was, exactly. We've done it.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  No, just can't use any of us.

• 5:13Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Joanne, I'm so happy we get to do this because we actually only met, what, a couple of months ago?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:19Fearne Cotton?

  We talked exclusively about Furbies.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  We did.

• 5:21Fearne Cotton?

  For that chat. And I'd like to veer off that topic today.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't realise.

• 5:26Fearne Cotton?

  I'm afraid so.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I wouldn't know.

• 5:29Fearne Cotton?

  I'm afraid so. We've done Furbies, quite frankly.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  We've done them to death, yeah.

• 5:31Fearne Cotton?

  We've absolutely done them and we've got so much more to talk about. I mean, I think even since I saw you, you've been incredibly busy. You did a tour in the States?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  I did, yeah.

• 5:40Fearne Cotton?

  How did that go?

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Really well, actually. But I didn't realise. So I'm kind of trying to do the States in chunks.

• 5:46Fearne Cotton?

  Right, you have to.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  It's so big. It's just so big. And I know that's not news to anyone, but it's when you go out there, it's just so vast. I've never felt more irrelevant in my life, just the size of it. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna try and do this in chunks, more so just for fun, really, and to see if I can, see how far I can go over there. So I don't even know what coast I've done, some coast. I did San Fran coast, so I did one the last time and this time I've done the other coast. See?

• 6:13Fearne Cotton?

  East and west?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  So now, couldn't tell you.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  But actually, what happened was this time, there were slightly bigger rooms. I mean, there's still small rooms, like, no one obviously gives a shit about me and America. But funnily enough, Taskmaster does quite well over there, which I didn't realise. They're big into Taskmaster. So that gave me a big lift over there, which was fantastic.

• 6:32Fearne Cotton?

  That's great.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it wasn't like empty rooms. It was actually a bit of a buzz. And then I had two weeks in New York where I did a lot of the clubs and kind of got to know the bookers over there a bit and stuff. So I'm dipping the toe.

• 6:42Fearne Cotton?

  So great. And you've got a UK tour next year?

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Yes, Pinot File is the new show.

• 6:48Fearne Cotton?

  Love.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 6:50Fearne Cotton?

  I can't wait, I'm coming.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Of course you're coming.

• 6:52Fearne Cotton?

  I'm coming.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:53Fearne Cotton?

  Do you like touring live? Does it suit you?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 6:55Fearne Cotton?

  Do you?

• 6:55Speaker 02

  I love it. Like, so when, when, when the lockdown, when all that Covid stuff happened, I was like, oh shit, because I had just put everything into live, because I love live. So all my eggs were in a live basket. I had nothing, like, I had no, nothing in the pipeline, as they say. I had no sitcoms or anything. I'd just done it all live. It's my favourite thing to do.

• 7:16Fearne Cotton?

  Why is that? Because I think it's absolutely terrifying. The fact that, it's not even like doing live TV. You've got an audience, you're reading their reactions, they're literally working off your material. And you've got to, sort of, if it's going well, fucking brilliant. But if it's not, you've got to stomach that and crack on with it. Like, that's so hard.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  I know, yeah. It's funny though, it's like anything. Like, you just get used to it. It's like anything. You just, you become desensitized to it. And I mean, not that desensitized. If a gig's not going well, you hope that you still have the intelligence to know it's not going well. If you're that desensitized, walking off thinking you've smashed it, that's a bad thing. But I don't know, I was always a bit of a show pony growing up. And then I got into performing kind of later in life. I was in my early 30s when I got into it. So I had a bit of life experience behind me. Whether that makes a difference or not, I'm not sure. I just, I just decided, this is what I want to do. And I'm just gonna power through all that horrible self-loathing, awkwardness, dying on your arse, trains on your own. I'm just gonna power through it, because this is all

• 8:17Speaker 02

  I want to do. So I'm just gonna suck it up. And whatever the bad stuff is, I'm just gonna suck that up and get through it.

• 8:23Fearne Cotton?

  I think doing stand-up comedy makes you so unbelievably resilient. Because you've got to not take things so personally, which is so hard in the moment, because it is just you. You're on your own on that stage. You're in control of it. You are, it's, it's, it's your stage. And you've got to deal with that just insane reaction. It's so tricky.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  So, I, I agree. I do think it makes you resilient, but not for the reasons you think, potentially. What I found was, it made me very independent. Like, because it's so insu, it's such an insular job. That's why I love doing podcasts and stuff, because you get to chat to other people. Because otherwise, you're on your own all. Day trying to write and then in the evening you're gigging, so you're on stage. You're not really part, you are part of the room, but you're not really. And then you go home either full of joy or again, full of self-loathing. So it is quite an interesting job. And when I first moved to the UK, I found that part really hard because I was obviously doing, I was gigging all over Britain. So I was on trains all the time on my own going into clubs where I didn't know anyone. I didn't know any comics over here. So that I found was way harder.

• 9:27Fearne Cotton?

  You're like the new kid at school every day.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there is no school.

• 9:31Fearne Cotton?

  There's no school, you're just walking into an empty building on your own with some old guy running the door.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, doing exams on your own every day and you've no one to talk to. When you finish the exam, you've no one to talk to. Now I have made some comedy friends, thank God, because you really need them. They're like your system, you know, they're like your support.

• 9:45Fearne Cotton?

  They have to understand what it's like.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  They have to get it. So you have to be able to ring someone and go, oh my God, I just had the most, the worst experience of my adult life. And they'll laugh it off with you. So the resilience came from being on my own so much. And now I would call myself, because I obviously read a lot of, when I say self-help TikTok.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  I'm big into philosophy at the moment on TikTok.

• 10:05Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thanks.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Just a quote at a time.

• 10:07Fearne Cotton?

  In a 10 minute little chug.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  A quote at a time. I'm Aurelius, here we go again, one quote. I would say I'm problematically independent now. I would call myself problematic.

• 10:14Fearne Cotton?

  Explain that to me.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say now I, I, I, I don't, I, I can only be around people for such, I used to be, I used to be constantly surrounded by people. I still have a very big group of friends, but we were in that phase. Everyone has it where you're just constantly attached to 28 other women, like a chain gang. Do you know what I mean? You do everything together. What are we doing at the weekend? Where are we going on holiday? Everything is a mass decision and a mass exercise. And that goes when you get older anyway. But because of the job and I got so used to being on my own, that now I've kind of gone the other way. I would say I'm strangely introverted, an introverted extroverted introvert, if such a thing exists, I'm sure it does.

• 10:58Fearne Cotton?

  No, it does, I am that.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah. So your job, you're kind of expelling a lot of yourself.

• 11:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  And then once the job's over, I, I kind of go into a weird kind of social hibernation. I have to force myself to go out. I'm like, go out, Joanne, go out now, come on.

• 11:11Fearne Cotton?

  Same, but I'm having a little weird burst of fun. I don't know why.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Oh god.

• 11:16Fearne Cotton?

  It's come out of nowhere. It's like, oh, I just wanna go and get a bit pissed.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:20Fearne Cotton?

  Have some fun and I'm coming out of it a bit. I think it's all phases, but I-

• 11:22Speaker 02

  It is.

• 11:23Fearne Cotton?

  I totally understand that sort of hyper-independence. I think I've had that for so long. Maybe because I started work young, I don't know, but sometimes I don't trust that people are going to do what I need or support me in the right way. So I'm like, no, I'm doing everything on my own.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:39Fearne Cotton?

  Which is not great, but I, but I know I can rely on myself. So I sort of stick to that. And I know that that's not great, but it's just a coping mechanism, I guess.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  You need to be able to delegate, don't you? Or else you will go slowly mad. You will go slowly mad. Like, I'm actually, I'm getting a lot better at that. Because like you, at the start, you're completely in control of your own career. You're completely responsible for your own career. You're the one driving.

• 12:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  You're, you're trying to get work, you're trying to create work, all that stuff. So you're in charge of all that yourself. But as you get more experience in the industry and more work comes in, you have to try and learn to let that go a bit.

• 12:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Like even the press release for this new tour that I'm doing, they're like, and I would, because I was a publicist before I was a comic.

• 12:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  I would have always kind of almost micromanaged that stuff. And now I'm like, I don't even wanna read, I, I have a publicist now.

• 12:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, put it out.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, do it, do your thing. I'm not, I'm, I'm hands up.

• 12:28Fearne Cotton?

  You'd go mad. Yeah. So what's your coping mechanism if you do a show and you just think, oh, that just didn't land or it just didn't go as you'd envisaged? What do you do after? How are you getting through that bit of self-doubt, critique? It's a shitty place to be. I've had it millions of times with, it could be a podcast episode. I'm like, oh, I just, it just wasn't quite what I thought it was gonna be, or it could be a telly thing, whatever. It's hard to pick yourself back up, get that confidence going again, to feel motivated again.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, so at stand-up, it's like, it's a job. You're kind of, you're, you're offering a service.

• 13:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And it's not an exact science.

• 13:04Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? It, it, it's so subjective to the room and, but, okay, a couple of things. One, it's never the audience's fault. That's one thing I learned early on.

• 13:13Fearne Cotton?

  It'd be good to blame them.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  It would be so good to be like, oh, it's-

• 13:17Fearne Cotton?

  Just these guys are shit.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Just 600 wankers in one room. At the same time, just a wild coincidence, do you know what I mean? You can't, it's on you, it's ultimately on you. And so the thing that's really helpful is, and at the start, you obviously take it way worse than you do. When you've enough gigs behind you that you know you're like, you can do the job. You're like, all right, Grant, this wasn't great, what happened there? So I'm like, what actually happened there? Why didn't that work? And if you can come away with a reason why it didn't work and something you can fix the next time, grand. And also, and a lot of comics will say this, you learn way more from your shit gigs than you do. If you're walking off storming it every night, you're not learning anything, do you know? Now, I'd love to not learn anything. I'd hope to never learn anything again for the rest of my life.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  But if you're gonna be an adult about it and a professional about it, the weaker gigs, you're like, okay, what went wrong? You know, I went too heavy, I went too hard on that person, I misread that situation, I fudged that line. Like, there's always a reason for it, thank God. And then, once you can get the reason for it, then it doesn't eat you up as much. You're like, all right, okay, and then you kind of sit with it for a couple of hours, the next day, have a coffee, think about it. And then you're like, right, I have to write this off now, I've got another show to do.

• 14:27Fearne Cotton?

  So really, it's quite practical, isn't it?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to be.

• 14:29Fearne Cotton?

  Because there's a system, and I think actually that's such good advice for sort of anything in life. And I wonder if that does spill into other areas outside of work where you might experience failure or something that didn't make you feel particularly good and that you can be as practical afterwards?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Not really, the thing about comedy is, you have to be prepared to fail very publicly. Like, you're failing in that moment, like, there's no...

• 14:51Fearne Cotton?

  Makes me feel sick, Joanne.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not, it is, look, don't get me wrong, it's not, it's not a nice experience. Yeah, like, I had a gig in one of the gigs, one of the club gigs in New York when I was over there. It was a really, my agent, when he was booking it in, he actually warned me. He was like, I'm just letting you know. Because I wanted, I never want to say no to anything, because I love the climate. And I'm like, I can do, I'll do anything, I'll do anything, I'll do all those gigs, I'll do it all. I want to kind of prove myself all the time. Especially because I've had a lovely tour behind me, so I want to prove that I'm not, like, soft now, do you know what I mean? That I'm still, you know, I can do it.

• 15:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  So I had this gig booked in New York and my agent was like, it's notoriously a horrible room. I was like...

• 15:36Fearne Cotton?

  Why is that? Why does that happen?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  And I know I'm kind of contradicting myself because I said it's never their fault, but some rooms just aren't made for comedy. And it was a really late night show. So by the time you get on, I think it was 1am by the time I got on stage.

• 15:50Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  And I was the last comic on. I was, I thought it was gonna be this like come to Jesus closing this, my closing my first New York club gig. And there were so many comics on before me and there was just no energy.

• 16:03Fearne Cotton?

  They were laughed out.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  They weren't even laughed out. They just, it was just, like I say, it was a really small room. I think there was like a hundred people in it.

• 16:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  And I was like, I was sitting in the hallway waiting to go on. I was like, it's fine. You know, you're like, I can fix it. I can, I can fix it. I have enough stage time behind me. I can fix it. I can fix it. I went out and I was like, I can't fix this. This is, this is painful. But then you get off, you're like, okay, I'm gonna give myself some grace here. I've never gigged in that room before. I don't know that stage. I don't know any of the comics. I don't know the emcee. I've just landed in your, you're trying to like.

• 16:40Fearne Cotton?

  I'm jet lagged.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it wasn't, in fairness, in my defence, I feel like I'm speaking to my agent now, in my defence, Tommy. You told me it was a hard room. Everyone had a terrible time. So it wasn't like I had gone up and torpedoed what had been a fabulous show. So yeah, and I left that night and I was like, this does not feel good. But you know what? No harm. It kind of puts manners on you. Cause you can do, if you do, if you have a couple of great gigs in a row, no harm getting a shit gig.

• 17:08Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Cause it kind of goes, no, no, no, no.

• 17:09Fearne Cotton?

  A little leveller.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, a leveller, yeah.

• 17:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I had the same with the podcast. If I have one where I think, oh, I just, you know, and hopefully no one would notice, but I just think, oh, I wasn't quite my best. I will go home and I will double down on everything that I'm looking into and how I'm gonna phrase questions or I'll listen to some other people interviewing again and. I've been doing this shit for years, but you still feel like you're being kept on your toes, which I guess is a good thing. You're not complacent. You're not bored.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. I think experiences like that, they keep you on your toes. And that's where you want to be. You want to be on your toes. You don't always be trying to get better and you want to be trying to figure out how to make the joke better and how to work a room better and all that stuff. And if everything's going swimmingly, you don't bother thinking about stuff like that. You just kind of, you still start ringing it in then, you know?

• 17:55Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's a good metaphor for life.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Don't ring it in.

• 17:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and just sort of, you know, keep on your toes, don't get complacent about things. And what age do you think you realised, oh, I'm quite funny here, people are sort of reacting to me in a positive way?

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, there's some people who would still say I'm not, but.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I'm hilarious, I always have been.

• 18:16Fearne Cotton?

  You really are though.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  I'm obviously taking this. Um, I was, I would say in, I was the, I was certainly the class clown, I would say. Um, I know, I've, because I, I read a lot of celebrity memoirs and a lot of comedy memoirs. And I know that we seem to fall into two categories where some comics were quite introvert at school or quite serious at school and some were quite clowny. I was definitely one of the clowny clowns, one of the clowny comics. So I was kind of disruptive and I had to sit on my own a lot and during class, all that kind of stuff. And I loved making people laugh, like I lo-, I just loved it, it just gave me such a kick, I just loved it.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Um, and then, and also I will say I have very funny friends. Like, I don't think you're, I think you can be, there's a certain irreverence, I think, that you need for comedy and that comes with who you're hanging out with.

• 19:10Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think?

• 19:11Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah, yeah.

• 19:12Fearne Cotton?

  I do think that some people are just born funny and it's something about the intonation, it's something about perhaps facial expressions, physical movement, there's some people you just think, you're fucking funny.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't know, I don't know what it is.

• 19:25Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's magic.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  It's, it's, I mean, I don't know if I go, that is, when I was growing up, I was good at English, but there was a friend of mine who was amazing at maths and I remember thinking, that's, that's magic. Like, whatever you don't have, you admire. So I just, I just, I just don't really think, like, I don't know. But like I say, my group of friends, our main goal was to make each other laugh. And there was an irreverence there, we didn't take anything that seriously. Like, all our parents died and we were still, we were laughing about two hours later, not at the death of our, you know what I mean? It was just. There was something lovely about us. We didn't take anything too seriously, which is kind of the key.

• 20:02Fearne Cotton?

  And there is something about the Irish and storytelling that you're just the best at storytelling. It's in your blood, it's in your lineage.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  I don't know what it is. I think maybe because we were historically a bit of an underdog, that we learnt how to get attention via storytelling. I don't know. But you're right, and I don't know what that is either. But there is something about, we are very good at storytelling.

• 20:25Fearne Cotton?

  I've not met an Irish person that isn't.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  We're good. And I think the accent also helps us along. Like, it's when, so when I, when I listen to a Glaswegian comic, like say Kevin Bridges for example, whatever he says, whatever way, whatever he says, his accent, I'm already on board. Do you know? And I found that when I moved over here, when I moved to London from Dublin, that when they introduce you and they hear your accent, that they're, they're kind of, they're, they're willing to go with you.

• 20:54Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. And maybe paying more attention, because it's like, the cadence is different. And you've got to be a bit more sort of sparky, like, oh, I'm listening to what this person's saying.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  When I was in America before I went, because that was, the accent was hard. So I was like, before I went out, I was like, okay, do you want, you've, slow, slow, slow. I said, speak like you've had a stroke. When you go out, you've had a little stroke, just a little one. Slow it all down. And still, sometimes I would see them, I'd ask someone in the audience, yeah, and they'd be like, yeah. So that was difficult. You need to kind of tune into it a little bit, I think.

• 21:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I worked in America in my twenties for a bit. I did two TV shows for NBC out there. And that was my biggest challenge, was them understanding what the fuck I was saying. And there was a lot of notes coming back, like, I remember I had to do, I did like a Guinness World Record show. And there was something, I mean, this sounds utterly inappropriate now, but it was like the world's biggest tumour. And they were like, yeah, and they were like, yeah, yeah. And in this meeting, I can't remember, I blocked it out because it was all quite traumatic. And they said, you're gonna need to say tumour, okay? It's tumour. So I would have to remember I got to that bit in my English accent. And now the world's biggest tumour. And sound like an absolute twat saying it. But it was awful.

• 22:12Fearne Cotton?

  And that was the biggest hurdle for me was it's all of those little things that you are basically a complete outsider in an environment like that. You're not in with the sort of, you know, and also state by state, the humour in New York's different to the humour in Arizona.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 22:26Fearne Cotton?

  The language, like all of it, you've got to get your head around that every time.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Totally, like I was in Denver and, and some of the stuff, Denver, I was like, that's so weird, they're laughing at different things in Denver.

• 22:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  And then I didn't, I spoke to someone after and he's like, you're in quite a posh part of Denver, whereas when I was in Seattle, I was in a less posh part of Seattle, so they were going for everything, they were just having a fucking ball. Whereas I, I, I, I had none of that inside information, do you know?

• 22:50Fearne Cotton?

  You can't learn it until you're there, it's going to be different every time.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  But that's what's so fun about us, you know?

• 22:54Fearne Cotton?

  It's great, I love, I just love that you're up for that and also.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 22:58Fearne Cotton?

  And, and sort of dealing with the, the rough and the smoother of all of it, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it, you'd have, you know, you have to really love stand up to keep putting yourself out there in that way.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I also, like, I've no, I'm not married, I've no kids, and I think part, one of the perks of that has to be that I can commit all this to this career and make it my main priority and travel with us. Because if I had a family, I wouldn't be able to.

• 23:22Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Head off to the States for six weeks and live out of a suitcase, do you know, I wouldn't be able to do that.

• 23:27Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's so good.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I'm kind of doing it now while I can before some gentleman knocks me up.

• 23:33Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, come on, it's going to happen any second.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Could happen right.

• 23:35Fearne Cotton?

  Quite frankly.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Today.

• 23:36Fearne Cotton?

  Well, who knows, not by me sadly, I haven't got those parts.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Don't write it off, don't write it off.

• 23:41Fearne Cotton?

  Who knows?

• 23:42Speaker 02

  A turkey baster, did you see that?

• 23:43Fearne Cotton?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Did you see the prison, the story about the two prisoners, why they were in the same prison, I'm not sure, a man and a woman.

• 23:48Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  And they, they had it through the cells, they had a healthy baby. He whanked himself off, passed the jizz through to her cell.

• 23:55Fearne Cotton?

  This cannot be true.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  It's 100% true, I read it on Lab Bible.

• 23:58Fearne Cotton?

  She popped it up there, all your news, so get all your headlines.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  CNN of the internet. And, and she used a turkey baster, put it up and they had a healthy baby girl.

• 24:08Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. Well, who knows, let's see how the day pans out.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:12Fearne Cotton?

  Do you think writing comedy for a tour or whatever you're working on at the time, helps you see the funny side in troubling situations you've been through, you know, how far can you take it with something that has really troubled you or stressed you out?

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Very far, all the way.

• 24:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  That's, that's actually one of the amazing things about it, is that no matter what happens, you're like.

• 24:33Fearne Cotton?

  Material.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, it's such a cliche, but it's true.

• 24:36Fearne Cotton?

  But does it help you deal and process with the terrible situations, do you think?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  Does it process it? Probably does. Like, yeah, which I think is quite self-indulgent because it's not fair for people to pay money to come and watch you work through your personal issues, do you know what I mean? Like, that's not really, it's, because people sometimes go with it like therapy, and I'm like, it's not like therapy. But there is something fun about having something like shit happen to you, whether it be with like lads or family, whatever. And then getting a, because to get a laugh out of it, you kind of have to make the joke about you in the end. It has to be about, the joke is on you, really. So then you have to kind of take accountability for yours, your part in that situation, whatever it is.

• 25:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  And that's useful. Instead of writing all my exes off as narcissistic bastards, I'm like, well, hold on a second, maybe I play a part. Do you know what I mean? Maybe I play a part in that. It's not ideal to admit that, but there's stuff like that is quite useful for you. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I'm working through it on stage, because I think that would be incredibly selfish and very boring.

• 25:36Fearne Cotton?

  I think there's something interesting about just saying it out loud, because often we've been through something, or something mortifying. Often we just never speak those words and we keep it inside and it festers and becomes so much bigger. And actually just saying, do you know what? I pissed myself, or whatever the fuck it is. You've said it and you're still there. There's something about that that makes it less awful.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 25:55Fearne Cotton?

  I haven't pissed myself, I'm just, I actually know I have loads.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Of course you have.

• 25:58Fearne Cotton?

  Because I've had babies, I piss every day.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 26:00Fearne Cotton?

  I have pissed myself.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 26:01Fearne Cotton?

  Daily, yeah. Running, every time I laugh, every time I sneeze, every time someone shocks me.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  I can see it, it's going at you.

• 26:08Fearne Cotton?

  I'm a bit excited, it's like, it's just variables coming at me.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  We did a whole 180 there, didn't we? See, it's, it's good to share, isn't it?

• 26:16Fearne Cotton?

  It's good to share it, babes, you're encouraging me.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Right now.

• 26:19Fearne Cotton?

  Stop now, Fern, stop. I've got a whole list of other things I just want to go through with you and say out loud. It's so fun. But this is another reason why I also love what you do. I love your podcast with Vogue.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 26:31Fearne Cotton?

  I love listening to you just chatting about whatever's happened that week or that day and airing it. And having that space to do so without there being any filtering. I mean, is there anything that you wouldn't talk about in that space?

• 26:43Speaker 02

  There is some.

• 26:44Fearne Cotton?

  There is some.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Like, it's shocking, isn't it, that that's the filtered version? There is.

• 26:51Fearne Cotton?

  Is it?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  There's stuff on the floor that has been cooked, which, actually, do you know what? The further it goes, the longer I do the pod, I probably become a little bit more private about stuff a little bit. Because at the start, we were just like, bleh, anything and everything.

• 27:09Fearne Cotton?

  And now you know how many people listen, so that's another factor.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Also, Vogue, it's different for Vogue, because she's, she has a different type of profile that I would have. So if Vogue says something slightly controversial, because you're taking the piss, it'll, it, it, chances are it'll end up as a headline. And then, you know, she's getting shit for it all. So that's not great. But I'm like, listen, all publicity is good publicity until it happens to me. And then I'm like, cut all of that. Go back, take it out. But there has been stuff that we said, like, one time I told this story, I was going out with this guy. And I'm, he fell asleep while I was during sex, like he fell asleep when I was riding him. I know.

• 27:44Fearne Cotton?

  How is that? Okay.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  I know.

• 27:46Fearne Cotton?

  Very drunk?

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Not drunk enough. No, we were on holiday. No, we've been drinking.

• 27:52Fearne Cotton?

  Daytime drinking? Okay.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  The sun.

• 27:55Fearne Cotton?

  The sleepy and the sunstroke, you had sunstroke.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  I was kind of like, I was on top and I kind of rocked him to sleep. It was all about.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  I don't know. Anyway, I told, and then I ended up doing it in stand up. You see, this is the pink, because you can then use it. But when I tell that story, because then I became single and I was like, I don't know if I want that information.

• 28:14Fearne Cotton?

  Not going on my hinge profile.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want one lads to think that I'm going to be the most exciting sexual experience of their human existence, not that they're going to get a nap in. So I told that and then I was like, I don't know if I should have done that. But then, like I say, it ended up going into the ghosted live show. So you always get something out of it.

• 28:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But there is stuff, or sometimes we'll end up in quite serious conversations or sometimes we'll have a disagreement, stuff like that. And Jo, our producer, is like, well, we can't. We're supposed to be, we wanted to be pure, lighthearted escapism, do you know what I mean? So when it veers down a serious route, suddenly we're talking about the American election. Jo's like, no one gets a shit.

• 28:50Fearne Cotton?

  Get that out.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Go back to talking about pissing yourself.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Pissing yourself, riding your mantis, exactly, yeah.

• 28:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love it, but I just love that you guys have that friendship and that we're all in on hearing it. It's just a beautiful thing.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  And we were close before the pod started, but we're way closer now.

• 29:06Fearne Cotton?

  I bet.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  We're like, I would, we're kind of like sisters now, like.

• 29:10Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's that frequency, isn't it, of like, you know you're committed to your having that chat.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:15Fearne Cotton?

  Every week, whereas with friendships, it's so all over the gaff, you know, like I'll see my best mate four times one week, then I won't see her for four months.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  I know, yeah.

• 29:23Fearne Cotton?

  And it's that lovely, regular, this is where we just get to have a chat. And yes, people are listening, but it's still bonding and.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. So when we and Vogue went to New York, we were doing, she kind of, so I was doing stand up out there and then she came out and we did some of the ghosted live shows out there. And it was so nice hanging out because we were saying, because we work together twice a week, we record twice a week. So we get so much engagement out of each other and we're on the phone a lot about pod topics and we tell each other everything.

• 29:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Because that kind of confessional friendship that we have is off mic and on mic. But socially, we kind of trying, we're trying to keep up with other friendships as well. So we don't socialise as much as we used to. Plus Vogue, we have kind of, Vogue is quite into wellness and fitness and stuff and I'm usually, I like, I like a pub and Pino, do you know? So, and when I go down to her house, there's kids everywhere.

• 30:14Fearne Cotton?

  So many children.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  They're falling out of the walls, they're everywhere.

• 30:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and they're all gorgeous.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  They're all gorgeous.

• 30:19Fearne Cotton?

  So gorgeous.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  They're so gorgeous. They're like a French Benetton.

• 30:22Fearne Cotton?

  They really are.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  They're loud, Fern.

• 30:25Fearne Cotton?

  Of course they are, they're children.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  They're loud.

• 30:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  So I'll call them.

• 30:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I'll be like, hey.

• 30:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, great to see you.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:29Fearne Cotton?

  And.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Oh, you've got your hands full, I'll leave it to you.

• 30:32Fearne Cotton?

  She's in the podcast studio, where there's new children.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Back to the pub.

• 30:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  So when we were in New York together and we had four or five days together.

• 30:38Fearne Cotton?

  That's fun.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  It was so nice.

• 30:40Fearne Cotton?

  That's so fun. And New York's so fun for that sort of thing.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  It was brilliant, it was so much fun. And she was obviously, she had no kids with her and we had all that time to spend together. And then we're like, oh my God, we need to do like a team building trip.

• 30:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Tell Spencer three times here.

• 30:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, Spencer, come on, you're off running in the desert for half the year. Let her go and have a little girly holiday.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Take a hit to the dazars.

• 30:59Fearne Cotton?

  We'll make that happen, it's absolutely fine.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I love it and I, I hope you just keep doing it forever because it's just a great bit of escapism and lovely to be in the chat.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  There's nothing to it, it's just fluff.

• 31:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's great.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  But it's fun fluff.

• 31:09Fearne Cotton?

  We need it, yeah, but it's not, it's not just fun fluff, it's like, it's super smart conversation and I love it, it's great. It is, I'm telling you it is.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Okay.

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• 34:02Fearne Cotton?

  The other thing that we chatted about off mic when we were at Radio 2 was your childhood, which I found so fascinating to talk to you about. You were adopted at what age?

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Three months.

• 34:11Fearne Cotton?

  Three months old. And I so loved talking to you about that off mic and hearing about, well, all of it. You know, meeting your biological parents and your relationship with your mom and meeting your brothers. It was just, I saw a whole other side to you that I didn't know so well.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:29Fearne Cotton?

  It's fascinating.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  It's funny because there's, and again, it's so hard to know what I'd be like if I wasn't adopted. I've no idea because it is what it is now. I can't undo it and look, it's not like a sliding doors thing. But I meet a lot of adopted comics and I've always wondered if there's some connection. I don't know if there is. There's this kind of, if you were to go full Freudian on it, it's this kind of proving yourself. But I never felt, I've met other adopted people who felt like they were abandoned. My parents did such a good job of making sure I never cared about being adopted that I think they kind of went a bit overboard and I thought I was special, which was worse, actually. It gave me this inflated sense of self as a child because I was like, everyone wanted me and do you know what I mean? They had to kind of dole me out and to see who would get me.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  So I was adopted at three months old. My- Birth parents were very young and a relationship wasn't on the cards and it was, you know, Ireland in the eighties. And so I was adopted, three months old, into the family I'm in now. My brother's adopted. And I was adopted into a fairly, like, my mum was a nurse, my dad was a draftsman. Kind of like a regular, normal family. So because I did have this slight show pony side to me. I had these fantasies that I'd, you know, I'd come from this kind of pantomime dynasty or, you know, what's your one's name? The Russian child that they, they found and they didn't, Anastasia.

• 35:53Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Like that of the theatre world, the arts. But of course, when I found my birth parents, they were exactly like my adopted parents. No, there was literally no difference.

• 36:01Fearne Cotton?

  You're just a one off.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was, my birth mother even looks like my adopted mother. Like, it's crazy. And but yeah, so there was no big showbiz dynasty in the end. Just like my own.

• 36:10Fearne Cotton?

  And what was it like meeting, you know, and if this is all too personal, you can tell me to not ask these questions. But what was it, I've, I've got a friend who was adopted and he's talked to me quite extensively about meeting his birth mother.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:20Fearne Cotton?

  And the feelings around that. And obviously it's going to differ each time. How did you feel?

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Weirdest thing about being adopted is the thing that really gave me quite a hang up. And I would even go so far as, because I'm in my 40s now, when you look back, a little bit of an identity crisis. If that's not too grandiose a term to use.

• 36:38Fearne Cotton?

  I don't think so at all.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Time in my life where I was like, who the fuck am I? Because there was no blueprint. You don't, you can't look behind you and go, oh, well, actually I'm the image of Uncle Pat. And he's really good at that thing and I'm really good at that thing. You don't have that. So you're definitely trying to figure out. And my mum, my parents put me into every single extracurricular activity going because they were like, Jesus, this woman could be a penis. And we don't like, you know, she could be an Olympian. I was none of those things. The one thing I did take to was drama and stuff, but that was, and I was, I got cast in stuff when I was younger, only because I was so loud. They were like, she can project her voice like knowing her age. They were like, we don't even need a mic on her. She is so loud. I was just this really loud baby, but not looking like anyone I found hard.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  And I was so envious of family like that looked like each other. I really, I, I was jealous is too strong. I envied that a lot. And I, that did cause some confusion, I think, growing up. So when I found my birth parents, my father, my birth father, the second I saw him on Facebook, because that's how. Modern family tracking works.

• 37:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  I was like, oh my god. It was me as a sixty year old man.

• 37:45Fearne Cotton?

  That must be bizarre.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  It was bizarre. I'm kinda used to it now, but at the start, it was such a buzz. It was such a buzz.

• 37:51Fearne Cotton?

  And what about meeting him?

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's fab. He's quite cool. He's got an earring.

• 37:55Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  He's quite groovy. He's a groovy man. He lives in Melbourne, Australia, and he's got four sons, who are all the absolute spin of me as well. I know, it's crazy.

• 38:03Fearne Cotton?

  I saw that picture. It's that you're on a pony.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the same. And it's, it's, you're, it's, I just find it fascinating. And like, I've met other people in my life that I look like, because there's only so many features in the world, and faces are ultimately just a mashup. You know, you're gonna come across people that look similar to you, but seeing them and breaking down their face with my face, I loved it.

• 38:24Fearne Cotton?

  It's wild.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  It was like an amazing Sudoku.

• 38:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And how do you think, sort of growing up, maybe teenage years, that sense of maybe lacking what your identity was or who you were, and it's obviously, identity is such a hot topic today. Like, everyone feels like it's very important to say where I'm from, what I'm about, you know, whatever it might be, what makes you up as a human. How did that impact you? You know, teenage years are shit as they are. They're difficult to navigate, working out who you are in the world, but you had that sort of added element going on.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, it was confusing. At the time, I just thought I was just, I, again, because I don't know what other people's experiences are inside themselves, so I don't know. But I definitely, I, I've met other adopted people who don't really care. They don't, it doesn't bother them, that piece of it doesn't bother them that much. I guess because I had that little show pony side to me, and that wasn't in the family I was adopted into, which are obviously my family, that I thought that I would find it in the, the OGs. The Birth family. And I always had that in the back of my head. So when that didn't happen, you are kind of left in a bit of a limbo land then. You have to be like, oh, I'm just my own person. Oh, god.

• 39:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  I really wanted a blueprint, because I was very confused about what I would do, as loads of people are. Had I met my Birth family, and one of them was an actor, or one of them was a novelist, I would have been like, oh, okay, I'm, I, I can pursue that side. In myself, because it'll come good, but I didn't have that. So I was left in a bit of a limbo land. I was like, oh my God, that didn't really.

• 39:56Fearne Cotton?

  You just got to rely on yourself.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That's it, which is worst case scenario.

• 39:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Because I didn't want to. I wanted to be told what to do. I wanted to be shown what the future me was going to be like, what it was going to look like, what it was going to work as. And I did get the physical thing from my birth father, but the career, character thing I didn't get. Then I had to figure it out for myself. And look, the worst.

• 40:22Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I think.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  It couldn't have gone worse for my mother, Patricia. It couldn't have gone worse.

• 40:26Fearne Cotton?

  Poor Patricia.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  I know.

• 40:27Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, down the line, does it feel quite liberating to not have that blueprint? That you are just quite literally navigating your way through things that feel right to you, rather than going, I've got the pressure of I must do this because it's in my lineage or I've been told I've got to do this.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  I think I would have massively benefited from having some sort of mentor in the family. I think I would have. I would have loved that. I take direction well. I love a kind of a wise, slightly older person to advise and I didn't have that. I mean, who does in comedy? But some people do. Some people come from parents who are comedy or parents who are in show business. I would have really liked that, but it wasn't there and that's fine, you know, I'm doing my own thing. But I would have, I think, benefited massively from that.

• 41:12Fearne Cotton?

  It's also probably why, I mean, like me, you're just completely independent and you just like, I'm gonna go on. Yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:18Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  But I'll tell you one amazing thing that happened. One of my best friends, Nora, who, we were in the same secondary school and she was similar to me. She loved writing, she loved English and we had that in common. So she was a couple of years ahead of me and we became friends, which doesn't usually happen in school. Usually the older girls are very separated.

• 41:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, they look down on us like we're an absolute, we're peasants, like we're pieces of shit.

• 41:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  But we kind of formed our own friendship and then we went into university. We both studied English in university, but because we were so chaotic, we started, we both ended up as mature students, finishing our degree in the same year. So we became like best friends and her family are very arty. Her mum is an actor. Her father ran a theatre in Ireland, in Dublin. And she actually came with me to meet my birth mother and. When we left the next day, my birth mother had added me on Facebook. And she said, how do you know XXX, who's Nora's mother? And I said, oh, she's Nora's mother. And she said, oh, my God, we're related. Her granny and my granddad are cousins or?

• 42:19Fearne Cotton?

  What?

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that, yeah. So then, that was amazing because.

• 42:25Fearne Cotton?

  Your best mate is your family? You're like second cousins or something?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I rang Nora and I was like, are you sitting down? Because it was just amazing.

• 42:33Fearne Cotton?

  That is wild.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  It is wild, yeah. I always forget that part of the story. So that's, and so then that, so then I got that kind of theater.

• 42:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's in there.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  That I wanted, I so badly wanted that. And I did actually get it in the end, from the wings, kind of, from the wings.

• 42:49Fearne Cotton?

  Incredible.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:51Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I guess it is strange, but anyone who, I mean, I'm certainly the first generation doing anything of the sort in terms of media, TV. My parents were, you know, from a working class family. My mum was doing about eight jobs. My dad's been a sign writer for his whole life. And you, I think you do think, oh, God, who tells me how this works?

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 43:08Fearne Cotton?

  Like, when you first start doing tele, like, who's going to tell me, am I doing this right? Do these people, do they get to tell me what to do? Or can I say no? Or it's really confusing.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  It is, and there's no training for it. Well, I suppose there might be, but it's, it's, yeah, you're kind of, you're very much on your own trying to figure it out. And that's why experience is, oh, it's so amazing. And that's why a mentor in any business is so useful to have.

• 43:33Fearne Cotton?

  Find a mentor. Have you found one since?

• 43:34Speaker 02

  So I have. There's a comic, an Irish comedy, he's an Irish American comic called Des Bishop, who's very good to me for comedy. Like, when I, when I was doing my last tour at Prosecco, and Prosecco turned into something we didn't, we didn't anticipate it was going to be. And I was like, oh, my God, what, you know, what am I going to do about this? And there was like 10 shows in a row. And I was like, I don't know if I can do them. And, you know, all these kind of concerns. And he was very good. And he spoke to me about money. And he spoke to me about who I can tell no to, or who I can say no to, who I have to say yes to, priorities, agents, bookers. He was really useful for all that stuff. And I really needed him. I really needed him.

• 44:12Fearne Cotton?

  I think a mentor is so underrated. It's, I've, I've sort of, I've got a mentor, but she's a friend, but we're quite boundaried about, right, I'm being a mentor now and here's my advice. She's, you know, she calls herself an elder. And she'll give me loads of great advice, but then also we can hang out and be mates and, and that's not the dynamic. But I think it's so important to have someone older, wiser, more experienced, to just say a few words of wisdom. And equally, and I don't know how you feel about this, but I would love to be that for someone else one day. I don't know if I'm quite there yet, but I think, you know, would you do that in the comedy world?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm always trying to mentor Grace Campbell. She's like, come on, I don't need us. I'm bigger than you.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  She's like, okay.

• 44:49Fearne Cotton?

  I've surpassed that.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  I'm like swigging out of a wine. I'm like, and another thing, Grace. She's like, I just did an Apollo. I really don't need your help. But a hundred percent, and I love seeing acts come up and you're like, oh, you're like, you're gonna, you're.

• 45:01Fearne Cotton?

  You can see the magic. They're gonna do it. They're gonna do it.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  But it took me a while to get to the point to be able to do that. I remember very early on in my career, people were coming to me for advice and help. And I was like, I don't know. Like, I am still like on the first rung of this ladder. I have no idea. I have no wisdom to impart upon you. I am still climbing and hustling and I'm still climbing and hustling. And the climb and the hustle never stops, which is, which is half the crack of it.

• 45:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I don't think it does ever. I think it's just, and also I think if you've got ambitious goals, which I think we both got ambitious goals, you always sort of feel like you're on the first rung of the ladder. You never feel like, I am nailing it, guys. Ever. I wouldn't want to get to that point. There's always another thing that I want to try and do and.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  That's what we're, even earlier, the, when you kind of sit back and relax and kick your feet up, that's when it'll all fall apart.

• 45:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Never stop. Never stop. Keep walking till you die. Never sleep.

• 45:56Fearne Cotton?

  Never sleep. Keep hustling.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. But again, like I say, I really enjoy it because for the first year ever, I've never done this. Well, actually, you know, maybe I did once. I like to make huge statements and then backtrack immediately. Like you and the pissing yourself.

• 46:12Fearne Cotton?

  All the time. I never piss myself. Actually, I pissed myself five times today. Sorry, guys, I'm wearing panty liners right now.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  They're like, your nose is just growing with every lie.

• 46:21Fearne Cotton?

  I literally have to wear period pants to go for a jog because I piss myself that bad.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you've had kids.

• 46:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, there's no pelvic floor there.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  What's my excuse? I've had no kids.

• 46:29Fearne Cotton?

  No kids.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Did I tell you, did I tell you the story about me going in to get my pelvic floor tested with Vogue?

• 46:35Fearne Cotton?

  No, but I want to have this happen to me. What do you do?

• 46:38Speaker 02

  So you got, you know, there's these post, I was about to say hummus, what's it called when you have a baby?

• 46:42Fearne Cotton?

  Hummus?

• 46:43Speaker 02

  I'm thinking of posthumous, they always call it hummus. Post birth, post, what, postpartum?

• 46:49Fearne Cotton?

  Post hummus.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Post hummus, posthumous, I used to think it was post hummus.

• 46:53Fearne Cotton?

  Post hummus, okay.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Post hummus, postpartum physios that you can go to.

• 46:56Fearne Cotton?

  I know, I didn't do this. This is a very common place in France. Apparently, I think all French people get offered this service. Here, they're like, bye, piss yourself forever.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:05Fearne Cotton?

  That's where I'm at.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, there's a, a post-

• 47:09Fearne Cotton?

  Hummus.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Posthumous clinic. I can't, it's a-

• 47:12Fearne Cotton?

  No one died.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  I can't look it over now. And Vogue was like, look, I'm going in. Vogue's obviously had-

• 47:16Fearne Cotton?

  Three kids, yeah.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  And she was like, come in with me, be good crack. And I was like, I have no idea, just going in. Going my pelvic floor tested or whatever.

• 47:24Fearne Cotton?

  No, but I'll go with her. Go on.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  I was like, all right, go on, I'm not doing it, I'll just go in. And she, Vogue was in ahead of me and they have this, it's basically the buzz chair, we call it, where you sit on it and it kind of buzzes your, your vaginal muscles back.

• 47:37Fearne Cotton?

  I'm really up for this.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  How have you not done this?

• 47:39Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know. I don't know because I'm really suffering daily.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  They would have offered this to you.

• 47:43Fearne Cotton?

  This is my moment now saying it, a big broadcast out there.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  It could be too late.

• 47:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's the real too late. It's a canyon down there, guys. There's literally nothing that can be done.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  They're like, it's a sink, Carl, guys, there's nothing we can do.

• 47:56Fearne Cotton?

  There's nothing to pull them back together. Is it two things coming back together? Is it just a weak floppy chair?

• 48:01Speaker 02

  What is it? So, and then it kind of buzzes your muscles back.

• 48:03Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Now, I obviously waxed and all. I thought she was gonna go in, but she wasn't. So when I got in there, Vogue's dressed in all white like J Lo, lounging on this huge electric chair, just getting like demurely buzzed. And I was like, ready to go, do you know what I mean? But, so anyway. They put me on this chair where it reads your, how strong your pelvic floor is.

• 48:21Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Vogue gets on, you, you kind of pulse or clench.

• 48:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, right. Yeah, I do try and do that. So I'm just sort of, even in a podcast, sometimes I'll just be doing it.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, your kegels.

• 48:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no one knows.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  But this machine like reads it like a heartbeat to see how strong it is. So Vogue.

• 48:34Fearne Cotton?

  Mine has got no pulse. It's deceased. Really, you've got.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  So Vogue gets on, three kids deep. Ping, ping. She could have done heart surgery with the precision of her heartbeat, up and down, up and down, like a scalpel.

• 48:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  I climb on, flat line.

• 48:54Fearne Cotton?

  What's going on down there?

• 48:55Speaker 02

  When did you give birth?

• 48:56Fearne Cotton?

  I said, I've.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  I said, I've never given birth. I've never given birth. I said, plug the machine in. Plug it in.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Plug it in. So that's like, so when you talk about that, now I'm gra, like she put me on the chair. So as Vogue bounces out, no post-thomas treatment needed.

• 49:13Fearne Cotton?

  No, she's fine.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  I continue to go to the clinic. They're like, we're going to need to see you again.

• 49:18Fearne Cotton?

  I'll come with you, I'll be your body. Because I am pissing for England.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  We're just being sent on the bikes. Clenching. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:25Fearne Cotton?

  You should go, Tim. I'm going. I mean, this is my catalyst to go. It's happening.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Because we spoke, because then I was going in, her name's Maria, she's lovely, she's a physiotherapist, she's a post-partum physiotherapist. And she was talking about the damage that childbirth can do to a woman's body. And then they're just like stitched up, off you go.

• 49:40Fearne Cotton?

  I know.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 49:41Fearne Cotton?

  I was so lucky. And I mean, this is TMI for sure, but I had no stitches. It was all absolutely great. Did a bit of the lubing, pre-hand.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:50Fearne Cotton?

  No stitches, but the pelvic floor, it, it's not there. It's not there.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  And one of my friends, she's, I'm not gonna name, I'm not gonna say her name, just in case, she probably doesn't want me telling everyone this.

• 50:00Fearne Cotton?

  Probably not.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  But when she gets drunk, she's like, not a single stitch. That's like her party trick story that she tells us.

• 50:06Fearne Cotton?

  I've just said it sober on a podcast.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Keep that in. That's a humble brag. That's a flex.

• 50:12Fearne Cotton?

  I didn't think we were going to get on to the pelvic floor, but I'm so glad we have.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  It's a journey.

• 50:16Fearne Cotton?

  It's a journey.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. But seriously, get on that. It's really good.

• 50:20Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, that's going to be our next date. So get ready. Good luck.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Just holding hands across the clinic floor.

• 50:24Fearne Cotton?

  Just vibrating away.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  As we gently urinate. Yeah.

• 50:32Fearne Cotton?

  Well, until then.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:33Fearne Cotton?

  Have a bloody good tour.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Is that it?

• 50:35Fearne Cotton?

  We've done, we've talked for 45 minutes.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 50:38Fearne Cotton?

  Goes quite quick, doesn't it?

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:40Fearne Cotton?

  When you're having fun.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I loved that.

• 50:41Fearne Cotton?

  I loved that. Unless there's anything else you want to say. Oh, I know. I've got one question for you.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  All right, go on.

• 50:47Fearne Cotton?

  Where's your happy place, Joanne?

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Is it wanky to say on stage?

• 50:52Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I think that's delightful.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's on stage.

• 50:54Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, that's so beautiful. Because I think for those like me that can get utter stage fright, to imagine that experience of this is where I feel the most me, that's amazing.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Stage. In the wings, maybe, just when you're about to go on, that's when I get the most excited. And the bath.

• 51:08Fearne Cotton?

  The bath.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the stage and the bath.

• 51:10Fearne Cotton?

  That's a good combo.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  You need to put a bath on stage.

• 51:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, do that next tour.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:13Fearne Cotton?

  Love.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Pass out from the ecstasy of it all. Yeah, stage, I would say.

• 51:17Fearne Cotton?

  Gorgeous. Well, look, it's been great talking to you.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 51:20Fearne Cotton?

  I think you're fucking great.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Can I say where the tickets?

• 51:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 51:22Speaker 02

  All tickets available for the new show, Stand and Show Pino File, are available on my website, joannemcnaughty.com.

• 51:29Fearne Cotton?

  Done.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  UK and Ireland.

• 51:31Fearne Cotton?

  Love.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 51:32Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you, Joanne.

• 51:35Fearne Cotton?

  I loved that. I loved every second of that. I think, and this might be creepy, I think I'm courting Joanne to be my new best friend. I'm going to have to put a call into Vogue just to see if that's okay. But I just felt happy during that whole time with her. I felt full of joy and I've given her my number, whether she wanted it or not. So we'll see if she texts me. Joanne will be on tour across the UK in 2025 and 2026. Her tour, as you heard, has a brilliant name. It's called Pino File. Now, if you want to be kept company over the festive period, come and join our merriment on Instagram. We're over at Happy Place Official. Otherwise, I'll catch you back

• 52:18Fearne Cotton?

  here next week for some reflections on what a brilliant year it's been on Happy Place, if I do blame my own trumpet. I wonder if your favourite episode of the year is the same as mine. I've picked some of them and given you some behind the scenes goss. Anyway, in the meantime, a huge thanks again to Joanne, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and the biggest thanks to you. Have a bloody good Christmas.

• 53:40Speaker 03

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